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The shifting tides: voting trends since 2005 – politicalbetting.com

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  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    Labour landslide in 2024!

    A bit less funny now. Ooh er.
  • I knw you are excited CHB, but there is no need to post 4 different tweets with the same info.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    The first step.
  • I knw you are excited CHB, but there is no need to post 4 different tweets with the same info.

    I'll post 6 more just a minute
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Can't private institutions and charities do what they want

    It’s not even a big deal, I don’t know why some people are so obsessed. Have they not got anything better to do?

    The same people who are whining about the National Trust are probably the same pathetic losers who feel the need to spend their precious time complaining to ofcom about a BLM necklace on TV.

    They just need to get a life. This isn’t about the “culture war” whatsoever. A vast majority of people are happy to just get on with their lives.
    Not sure if it is the charm or the intelligence which shines more radiantly from that post. Yes, the distortion of history for any reason matters hugely and no, they are not necessarily the same pathetic losers. There's eclectic pathetic losers like me who address ideas on a case by case basis, rather than wholesale. I'd be very happy to see that Britannia song removed from the proms, and I have no doubt that the British slave trade was a holocaust level atrocity.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited September 2020

    Tres said:

    LadyG said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:
    So on one hand you got a random on the street spouting awful opinions and on the other hand you have the president of the United States glorifying violence against his political opponents and refusing to confirm he will stand down if defeated.

    Do you see how the equivalency fails?

    Also I haven't seen a single top level Dem politician praise the Marxist front orginisation BlackLivesMatters as opposed to the general amorphous movement made of ordinary people pushing for racial justice that has the same name.
    Well then you're blind as well as stupid
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    It is astonishing and extremely upsetting to watch American democracy self-destruct.



    Both sides are responsible for this tragedy. The insane identity politics of the American Left are as corrosive and damaging as the stupidity and aggression of the Trumpians.
    The insane identity politics are - of course - ridiculous and damaging.

    But if Trump was just attacking that, and immigration, and free trade, etc., then we while we might not agree with him on everything, that would be well within his right.

    But "insane identity politics" are not a threat to democracy. What is currently happening in the US *is* a threat to democracy. And we need to call it out when we see it, not attempt to say "there are good people on both sides".

    The US (like the UK) has been successful because it has a good system. Once you dismantle a good system, you are on the highway to hell.
    I think critical race theory, cultural Marxism, the idea of original sin of White Racism and Fragility, and so on, are arguably more menacing, long term, to American democracy, than Trump's everyday lunacies.

    He's a terrible, odious president, but at most he can only run one more term (and he's surely going to lose); Cultural Marxism/Critical Race Theory and all that goes with it is a terrible but powerful IDEA, and ideas are more important in the end. This particular idea will presage a race war in the USA if it gets worse.

    Moreover, America is exporting the madness of Critical Race Theory around the world, roiling other western nations.



    It's infected our own National Trust too, which is why I cancelled my membership this week.
    Bonkers! What on earth did the National Trust do?
    It is indeed bonkers.

    The National Trust report was one of the most astonishingly inept pieces of work I've ever seen. It's a massive self-inflicted wound.

    You can read more about the problem in the links below. Rather than adding to their record of the stories of their properties in a fair and balanced way, where things are currently lopsided or inaccurate, and looking to add more and new stories of non-whites in (which would have been welcome) - they've thrown everyone in the same boat and damned them all. The last 400 years. The lot.

    They've equated slavery and colonialism as exactly the same thing, linked people together to both with all sorts of tendentious and tangential evidence, without context, and littered the foreword and the main body report with Wokeness about "power" and "privilege" and a general narcisstic tone of atonement permeates the whole report.

    It's largely been written by agenda pursuing left-wing academics - a hectoring, partial, nihilistic, anti-patriotic hatchet job - and the NT has contracted this out to them in the belief this creates "inclusivity" and "all parts of society" - when in reality it will do the opposite.

    If that's the furrow they want to plough in future they won't be getting any more of my money. And I have told them so.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-national-trusts-shameful-manifesto/amp

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8762205/amp/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-dare-National-Trust-link-Wordsworth-slavery.html

    Like I said. Pathetic. You need to get a life. The national trust is still the same organization, it’s just highlighting some uncomfortable truths which you are welcome to ignore if you like.

    Who gives a sh*t? Just ignore it if you don’t like it like 99% of people.
    Again this is a very typical reaction from ignoramuses who fail to understand the importance of context, selection and presentation of historical facts.

    The authors of this report understood this very well of course - which is precisely why they choose to present it in this way. It includes charmers like this:

    "One of the report’s editors is Professor Corinne Fowler, director of the Colonial Countryside project at Leicester university, and author of Green Unpleasant Land: Creative Responses to Rural Britain’s Colonial Histories. She retweets things like ‘Rural racism means POC [People of Colour] don’t feel safe in there. The countryside is one of the last bastions of Empire’ and ‘Amid a global reckoning over the history of slavery one institution has remained silent: the British monarchy’"

    In answer to your last question the answer is: millions of people, which is why the National Trust will now find they've got a big problem.

    They've just taken sides in the culture wars.
    It’s just a fact of life that a vast majority of our historical figures were, by today’s standards, bad people.

    And so what? Why do you want to hide that? It doesn’t change anything. It doesn’t make any race “evil” and it shouldn’t lead to any “white guilt” or any of that nonsense. It’s just a fact.

    I suggest you get over it.
    I think the point is some of the people behind (re)writing this are bad faith actors. They aren't simply trying to record accurately historical ties, they are have a wider motive. Same as those who setup the BLM and XR movements, it isn't (simply) about race equality and climate change.
    I think people like Corinne Fowler are, on the whole, nutters too. But who cares?

    What difference does it make?

    Giving them publicity is just what they want. Just ignore them and get on with it. I swear people who declare themselves “anti woke” are just as much “outrage merchants” as the Twitter “woke warriors”.
  • Interestingly, in a worry for Labour, Starmer net negative on approval
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Culture warriors are tiresome and they disrespect people. Life is too short and too precious to engage with them.

    Instead let's admire the courage and the style of this woman who says it with flowers to Lukashenko's thugs.

    https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1309848362347307009
  • I am not at all surprised

    Even I do not know who I would vote for at present
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Don't mention the slavery!

    Yes, we must ignore the parts of our history that we no longer like.
    But that's not happening. The slave trade is as well and widely documented and acknowledged as the Industrial Revolution. Which makes you look a complete twit if you purport to have the historical firepower to run the National Trust and then come up with the Hang on, lads, we've made some unwelcome discoveries spiel.
    Surely that is what they are doing, pointing out how a number of houses and monuments were funded by the slave trade, or other colonialist ventures?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54244434
    The criticism is not about making people aware of the history but that this has been done badly ie the report has made factual and historical errors in relation to the houses and families in it - so it is bad history.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,719

    Tres said:

    LadyG said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:
    So on one hand you got a random on the street spouting awful opinions and on the other hand you have the president of the United States glorifying violence against his political opponents and refusing to confirm he will stand down if defeated.

    Do you see how the equivalency fails?

    Also I haven't seen a single top level Dem politician praise the Marxist front orginisation BlackLivesMatters as opposed to the general amorphous movement made of ordinary people pushing for racial justice that has the same name.
    Well then you're blind as well as stupid
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    It is astonishing and extremely upsetting to watch American democracy self-destruct.



    Both sides are responsible for this tragedy. The insane identity politics of the American Left are as corrosive and damaging as the stupidity and aggression of the Trumpians.
    The insane identity politics are - of course - ridiculous and damaging.

    But if Trump was just attacking that, and immigration, and free trade, etc., then we while we might not agree with him on everything, that would be well within his right.

    But "insane identity politics" are not a threat to democracy. What is currently happening in the US *is* a threat to democracy. And we need to call it out when we see it, not attempt to say "there are good people on both sides".

    The US (like the UK) has been successful because it has a good system. Once you dismantle a good system, you are on the highway to hell.
    I think critical race theory, cultural Marxism, the idea of original sin of White Racism and Fragility, and so on, are arguably more menacing, long term, to American democracy, than Trump's everyday lunacies.

    He's a terrible, odious president, but at most he can only run one more term (and he's surely going to lose); Cultural Marxism/Critical Race Theory and all that goes with it is a terrible but powerful IDEA, and ideas are more important in the end. This particular idea will presage a race war in the USA if it gets worse.

    Moreover, America is exporting the madness of Critical Race Theory around the world, roiling other western nations.



    It's infected our own National Trust too, which is why I cancelled my membership this week.
    Bonkers! What on earth did the National Trust do?
    It is indeed bonkers.

    The National Trust report was one of the most astonishingly inept pieces of work I've ever seen. It's a massive self-inflicted wound.

    You can read more about the problem in the links below. Rather than adding to their record of the stories of their properties in a fair and balanced way, where things are currently lopsided or inaccurate, and looking to add more and new stories of non-whites in (which would have been welcome) - they've thrown everyone in the same boat and damned them all. The last 400 years. The lot.

    They've equated slavery and colonialism as exactly the same thing, linked people together to both with all sorts of tendentious and tangential evidence, without context, and littered the foreword and the main body report with Wokeness about "power" and "privilege" and a general narcisstic tone of atonement permeates the whole report.

    It's largely been written by agenda pursuing left-wing academics - a hectoring, partial, nihilistic, anti-patriotic hatchet job - and the NT has contracted this out to them in the belief this creates "inclusivity" and "all parts of society" - when in reality it will do the opposite.

    If that's the furrow they want to plough in future they won't be getting any more of my money. And I have told them so.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-national-trusts-shameful-manifesto/amp

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8762205/amp/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-dare-National-Trust-link-Wordsworth-slavery.html

    Like I said. Pathetic. You need to get a life. The national trust is still the same organization, it’s just highlighting some uncomfortable truths which you are welcome to ignore if you like.

    Who gives a sh*t? Just ignore it if you don’t like it like 99% of people.
    Again this is a very typical reaction from ignoramuses who fail to understand the importance of context, selection and presentation of historical facts.

    The authors of this report understood this very well of course - which is precisely why they choose to present it in this way. It includes charmers like this:

    "One of the report’s editors is Professor Corinne Fowler, director of the Colonial Countryside project at Leicester university, and author of Green Unpleasant Land: Creative Responses to Rural Britain’s Colonial Histories. She retweets things like ‘Rural racism means POC [People of Colour] don’t feel safe in there. The countryside is one of the last bastions of Empire’ and ‘Amid a global reckoning over the history of slavery one institution has remained silent: the British monarchy’"

    In answer to your last question the answer is: millions of people, which is why the National Trust will now find they've got a big problem.

    They've just taken sides in the culture wars.
    It’s just a fact of life that a vast majority of our historical figures were, by today’s standards, bad people.

    And so what? Why do you want to hide that? It doesn’t change anything. It doesn’t make any race “evil” and it shouldn’t lead to any “white guilt” or any of that nonsense. It’s just a fact.

    I suggest you get over it.
    I have just finished this very interesting book: Prisoners of History by Lowe

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0008339546/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_i.4BFbWS8JZV0

    It looks at history by considering reactions to 16 war memorials, and the various controversies and reactions to them. Countries vary a lot in how they deal with what happened, some in absolute denial (the Japanese shrine to the Kempeitei, or Mussolinis tomb) and some to a more sober approach (the Topography of Terror in Berlin, or Hamburg Firestorm monument).

    It seems our discussions on slavery and colonialism are stuck in a similar place. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that our country has a lot of dark bits of history as well as some real peaks.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,108
    edited September 2020

    Tres said:

    LadyG said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:
    So on one hand you got a random on the street spouting awful opinions and on the other hand you have the president of the United States glorifying violence against his political opponents and refusing to confirm he will stand down if defeated.

    Do you see how the equivalency fails?

    Also I haven't seen a single top level Dem politician praise the Marxist front orginisation BlackLivesMatters as opposed to the general amorphous movement made of ordinary people pushing for racial justice that has the same name.
    Well then you're blind as well as stupid
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    It is astonishing and extremely upsetting to watch American democracy self-destruct.



    Both sides are responsible for this tragedy. The insane identity politics of the American Left are as corrosive and damaging as the stupidity and aggression of the Trumpians.
    The insane identity politics are - of course - ridiculous and damaging.

    But if Trump was just attacking that, and immigration, and free trade, etc., then we while we might not agree with him on everything, that would be well within his right.

    But "insane identity politics" are not a threat to democracy. What is currently happening in the US *is* a threat to democracy. And we need to call it out when we see it, not attempt to say "there are good people on both sides".

    The US (like the UK) has been successful because it has a good system. Once you dismantle a good system, you are on the highway to hell.
    I think critical race theory, cultural Marxism, the idea of original sin of White Racism and Fragility, and so on, are arguably more menacing, long term, to American democracy, than Trump's everyday lunacies.

    He's a terrible, odious president, but at most he can only run one more term (and he's surely going to lose); Cultural Marxism/Critical Race Theory and all that goes with it is a terrible but powerful IDEA, and ideas are more important in the end. This particular idea will presage a race war in the USA if it gets worse.

    Moreover, America is exporting the madness of Critical Race Theory around the world, roiling other western nations.



    It's infected our own National Trust too, which is why I cancelled my membership this week.
    Bonkers! What on earth did the National Trust do?
    It is indeed bonkers.

    The National Trust report was one of the most astonishingly inept pieces of work I've ever seen. It's a massive self-inflicted wound.

    You can read more about the problem in the links below. Rather than adding to their record of the stories of their properties in a fair and balanced way, where things are currently lopsided or inaccurate, and looking to add more and new stories of non-whites in (which would have been welcome) - they've thrown everyone in the same boat and damned them all. The last 400 years. The lot.

    They've equated slavery and colonialism as exactly the same thing, linked people together to both with all sorts of tendentious and tangential evidence, without context, and littered the foreword and the main body report with Wokeness about "power" and "privilege" and a general narcisstic tone of atonement permeates the whole report.

    It's largely been written by agenda pursuing left-wing academics - a hectoring, partial, nihilistic, anti-patriotic hatchet job - and the NT has contracted this out to them in the belief this creates "inclusivity" and "all parts of society" - when in reality it will do the opposite.

    If that's the furrow they want to plough in future they won't be getting any more of my money. And I have told them so.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-national-trusts-shameful-manifesto/amp

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8762205/amp/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-dare-National-Trust-link-Wordsworth-slavery.html

    Like I said. Pathetic. You need to get a life. The national trust is still the same organization, it’s just highlighting some uncomfortable truths which you are welcome to ignore if you like.

    Who gives a sh*t? Just ignore it if you don’t like it like 99% of people.
    Again this is a very typical reaction from ignoramuses who fail to understand the importance of context, selection and presentation of historical facts.

    The authors of this report understood this very well of course - which is precisely why they choose to present it in this way. It includes charmers like this:

    "One of the report’s editors is Professor Corinne Fowler, director of the Colonial Countryside project at Leicester university, and author of Green Unpleasant Land: Creative Responses to Rural Britain’s Colonial Histories. She retweets things like ‘Rural racism means POC [People of Colour] don’t feel safe in there. The countryside is one of the last bastions of Empire’ and ‘Amid a global reckoning over the history of slavery one institution has remained silent: the British monarchy’"

    In answer to your last question the answer is: millions of people, which is why the National Trust will now find they've got a big problem.

    They've just taken sides in the culture wars.
    It’s just a fact of life that a vast majority of our historical figures were, by today’s standards, bad people.

    And so what? Why do you want to hide that? It doesn’t change anything. It doesn’t make any race “evil” and it shouldn’t lead to any “white guilt” or any of that nonsense. It’s just a fact.

    I suggest you get over it.
    I think the point is some of the people behind (re)writing this are bad faith actors. They aren't simply trying to record accurately historical ties, they are have a wider motive. Same as those who setup the BLM and XR movements, it isn't (simply) about race equality and climate change.
    I think people like Corinne Fowler are, on the whole, nutters too. But who cares?

    What difference does it make?

    Giving them publicity is just what they want. Just ignore them and get on with it. I swear people who declare themselves “anti woke” are just as much “outrage merchants” as the Twitter “woke warriors”.
    Well because unchallenged their "facts" become the established truth e.g. BLM narrarive that the police in the US go around gunning down unarmed black men every day, and you could be next*. Which then in turn leads to this crazy movement of defund the police being enacted.

    * The reality last year it was 10, of which that included somebody trying to run down an officer, a black officer own weapon accidentally going off etc. Basically even of the 10, 2-3 appear unjustified and the officers were charged. And the same year, more unarmed whites were shot.

    So rather than say what are the facts i.e. there are definitely issues, it seems like police need some reform and better training (which requires funding), on the back of a false narrative a crazy policy is being enacted.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,315
    Foxy said:

    Can't private institutions and charities do what they want

    Charities have Trustees who have legal obligations to stay within the law and their constitution.

    Educating people on how the property that they are admiring was built, and where the money came from seem to fall well within their objectives.
    But only if what they say is historically and factually accurate. I have read that a number of reputable archivists and historians have said that what has been put out as facts are in fact inaccurate.
  • Davey seems to have seen no bounce at all
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    I am not at all surprised

    Even I do not know who I would vote for at present
    Can I help you out there? How about Conservative?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Does BoZo ditch Cummings in a desperate attempt to shore up his premiership, or does Gove engineer BoZo's departure to maintain Cummings' position...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Is it HY’s night off? ;)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    I am not at all surprised

    Even I do not know who I would vote for at present
    Can I help you out there? How about Conservative?
    Is there a Conservative party for Conservatives any more? More Faragist than Conservative.
  • Good evening all. It's splendid news that Sir Keir is ahead in the polls. Hopefully that will encourage him to give us some clues about what he'd do in government.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    I knw you are excited CHB, but there is no need to post 4 different tweets with the same info.

    He might as well get them in now in case Labour are 4 points behind again next week. Go Horse!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Scott_xP said:
    They need to get a move on it’s 2018 here, hopefully he’ll be gone by eight thirty.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    I knw you are excited CHB, but there is no need to post 4 different tweets with the same info.

    I'll post 6 more just a minute
    Polls are irrelevant at the moment ignore them
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Tres said:

    LadyG said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:
    So on one hand you got a random on the street spouting awful opinions and on the other hand you have the president of the United States glorifying violence against his political opponents and refusing to confirm he will stand down if defeated.

    Do you see how the equivalency fails?

    Also I haven't seen a single top level Dem politician praise the Marxist front orginisation BlackLivesMatters as opposed to the general amorphous movement made of ordinary people pushing for racial justice that has the same name.
    Well then you're blind as well as stupid
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    It is astonishing and extremely upsetting to watch American democracy self-destruct.



    Both sides are responsible for this tragedy. The insane identity politics of the American Left are as corrosive and damaging as the stupidity and aggression of the Trumpians.
    The insane identity politics are - of course - ridiculous and damaging.

    But if Trump was just attacking that, and immigration, and free trade, etc., then we while we might not agree with him on everything, that would be well within his right.

    But "insane identity politics" are not a threat to democracy. What is currently happening in the US *is* a threat to democracy. And we need to call it out when we see it, not attempt to say "there are good people on both sides".

    The US (like the UK) has been successful because it has a good system. Once you dismantle a good system, you are on the highway to hell.
    I think critical race theory, cultural Marxism, the idea of original sin of White Racism and Fragility, and so on, are arguably more menacing, long term, to American democracy, than Trump's everyday lunacies.

    He's a terrible, odious president, but at most he can only run one more term (and he's surely going to lose); Cultural Marxism/Critical Race Theory and all that goes with it is a terrible but powerful IDEA, and ideas are more important in the end. This particular idea will presage a race war in the USA if it gets worse.

    Moreover, America is exporting the madness of Critical Race Theory around the world, roiling other western nations.



    It's infected our own National Trust too, which is why I cancelled my membership this week.
    Bonkers! What on earth did the National Trust do?
    It is indeed bonkers.

    The National Trust report was one of the most astonishingly inept pieces of work I've ever seen. It's a massive self-inflicted wound.

    You can read more about the problem in the links below. Rather than adding to their record of the stories of their properties in a fair and balanced way, where things are currently lopsided or inaccurate, and looking to add more and new stories of non-whites in (which would have been welcome) - they've thrown everyone in the same boat and damned them all. The last 400 years. The lot.

    They've equated slavery and colonialism as exactly the same thing, linked people together to both with all sorts of tendentious and tangential evidence, without context, and littered the foreword and the main body report with Wokeness about "power" and "privilege" and a general narcisstic tone of atonement permeates the whole report.

    It's largely been written by agenda pursuing left-wing academics - a hectoring, partial, nihilistic, anti-patriotic hatchet job - and the NT has contracted this out to them in the belief this creates "inclusivity" and "all parts of society" - when in reality it will do the opposite.

    If that's the furrow they want to plough in future they won't be getting any more of my money. And I have told them so.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-national-trusts-shameful-manifesto/amp

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8762205/amp/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-dare-National-Trust-link-Wordsworth-slavery.html

    You're the loser - you'll miss out on being able to visit the finest collection of architectural gems, historical monuments and beuatiful gardens in the world.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Jonathan said:

    I am not at all surprised

    Even I do not know who I would vote for at present
    Can I help you out there? How about Conservative?
    Is there a Conservative party for Conservatives any more? More Faragist than Conservative.
    I would still bet my shirt on Big G. voting for a party with Conservative somewhere in its name.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited September 2020
    New thread
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Jonathan said:

    I am not at all surprised

    Even I do not know who I would vote for at present
    Can I help you out there? How about Conservative?
    Is there a Conservative party for Conservatives any more? More Faragist than Conservative.
    I would still bet my shirt on Big G. voting for a party with Conservative somewhere in its name.
    Though Big_G voted for Tiny Blair's Labour in the past.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    IanB2 said:

    Is it HY’s night off? ;)
    I know how to get him going ....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    There is no culture war. There is conflict of course but 'twas ever thus. But War suggests you have to go all in one side or the other.
    Right now one can be opposed to abortion whilst admitting our role in Empire wasn't entirely good.
    You can sing Rule Brittania whilst supporting trans rights.
    I'd very much like to keep it that way, and not feel pressured into my opinions on any subject out of loyalty to my "team", or out fear of giving the other lot a "win".
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    They were such fools to give him his election before Xmas. If they had held out three months more the world would have been different.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Does BoZo ditch Cummings in a desperate attempt to shore up his premiership, or does Gove engineer BoZo's departure to maintain Cummings' position...

    Whooooa. That's an interesting idea.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    But then no European country had a death rate as bad as Britain’s because no other European country put the village idiot in charge.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    IanB2 said:

    Is it HY’s night off? ;)
    I thought I'd get the HYUFD caveat in early. No point getting too excited 4 years out, and I remember 1992 like it was yesterday.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Davey seems to have seen no bounce at all

    Why would he
  • nichomar said:

    I knw you are excited CHB, but there is no need to post 4 different tweets with the same info.

    I'll post 6 more just a minute
    Polls are irrelevant at the moment ignore them
    Generally the degree of relevance that someone attaches to a poll is in direct proportion to how much they line the numbers
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Scott_xP said:
    What's genuinely interesting here is that Sturgeon's approval is up despite a fairly obvious blunder on universities. Having the two most prominent anglosphere leaders being drivelling aristocrats with no talent probably helps admittedly.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    IanB2 said:

    Is it HY’s night off? ;)
    I expect he's still busy planning the invasion of Spain.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    Probably doesn’t quite work over here.

    https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/518394-lincoln-project-mocks-lindsey-graham-fundraising-lag-with-sarah
    ... “Every single hour in South Carolina, Lindsey Graham is violently out-fundraised,” the ad states, playing Sarah McLachlan’s song "Angel" over various images of Graham. The song has been featured in a number of television commercials for the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Jonathan said:

    They were such fools to give him his election before Xmas. If they had held out three months more the world would have been different.
    Oh Jeremy Corbyn!
  • Having raised the stakes so high the Tories cannot now ever risk losing power, so presumably free and fair elections are next on the hit list. All this was pretty clearly going to happen once Johnson decided to close down Parliament last year. There’s no point being angry about it. Neither he nor Cummings is a democrat. The interesting thing is to watch those who proclaim to treasure liberty, democracy and the rule of law above all else go along with it all because it will wind-up the lefties. How shallow. How utterly predictable.

    A little bit hyperbolic there! How about dialling it back to reality a bit?
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    dixiedean said:

    There is no culture war. There is conflict of course but 'twas ever thus. But War suggests you have to go all in one side or the other.
    Right now one can be opposed to abortion whilst admitting our role in Empire wasn't entirely good.
    You can sing Rule Brittania whilst supporting trans rights.
    I'd very much like to keep it that way, and not feel pressured into my opinions on any subject out of loyalty to my "team", or out fear of giving the other lot a "win".

    That's a nice way of looking at it and I tend to agree. It's why I look at the frothing (whether boycotting Dove or the National Trust) with a degree of bemusement. This is something the Americans (particularly the GOP) do. I'd prefer we didn't. Which is the reason I like Starmer.
  • So, word of the evening:

    Crossover!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    I knw you are excited CHB, but there is no need to post 4 different tweets with the same info.

    I'll post 6 more just a minute
    Polls are irrelevant at the moment ignore them
    Generally the degree of relevance that someone attaches to a poll is in direct proportion to how much they line the numbers
    Unless you are using them for evaluating betting opportunities this far out from any elections with so much happening strikes me as pointless but yes if you are desperate to see your team in front then they become the be all and end all.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Scott_xP said:

    Does BoZo ditch Cummings in a desperate attempt to shore up his premiership, or does Gove engineer BoZo's departure to maintain Cummings' position...

    Whooooa. That's an interesting idea.
    I never thought I'd hear myself say this (which has happened a lot lately) but... can we ditch the lot of them and have Jeremy Hunt?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,719
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Can't private institutions and charities do what they want

    Charities have Trustees who have legal obligations to stay within the law and their constitution.

    Educating people on how the property that they are admiring was built, and where the money came from seem to fall well within their objectives.
    But only if what they say is historically and factually accurate. I have read that a number of reputable archivists and historians have said that what has been put out as facts are in fact inaccurate.
    Sure, that is how academic discussion should proceed, by debate and researching primary sources. It is never fixed, whether by this report nor by the erectors of the statue of Colston.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366

    Tres said:

    LadyG said:

    Alistair said:

    LadyG said:
    So on one hand you got a random on the street spouting awful opinions and on the other hand you have the president of the United States glorifying violence against his political opponents and refusing to confirm he will stand down if defeated.

    Do you see how the equivalency fails?

    Also I haven't seen a single top level Dem politician praise the Marxist front orginisation BlackLivesMatters as opposed to the general amorphous movement made of ordinary people pushing for racial justice that has the same name.
    Well then you're blind as well as stupid
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    It is astonishing and extremely upsetting to watch American democracy self-destruct.



    Both sides are responsible for this tragedy. The insane identity politics of the American Left are as corrosive and damaging as the stupidity and aggression of the Trumpians.
    The insane identity politics are - of course - ridiculous and damaging.

    But if Trump was just attacking that, and immigration, and free trade, etc., then we while we might not agree with him on everything, that would be well within his right.

    But "insane identity politics" are not a threat to democracy. What is currently happening in the US *is* a threat to democracy. And we need to call it out when we see it, not attempt to say "there are good people on both sides".

    The US (like the UK) has been successful because it has a good system. Once you dismantle a good system, you are on the highway to hell.
    I think critical race theory, cultural Marxism, the idea of original sin of White Racism and Fragility, and so on, are arguably more menacing, long term, to American democracy, than Trump's everyday lunacies.

    He's a terrible, odious president, but at most he can only run one more term (and he's surely going to lose); Cultural Marxism/Critical Race Theory and all that goes with it is a terrible but powerful IDEA, and ideas are more important in the end. This particular idea will presage a race war in the USA if it gets worse.

    Moreover, America is exporting the madness of Critical Race Theory around the world, roiling other western nations.



    It's infected our own National Trust too, which is why I cancelled my membership this week.
    Bonkers! What on earth did the National Trust do?
    It is indeed bonkers.

    The National Trust report was one of the most astonishingly inept pieces of work I've ever seen. It's a massive self-inflicted wound.

    You can read more about the problem in the links below. Rather than adding to their record of the stories of their properties in a fair and balanced way, where things are currently lopsided or inaccurate, and looking to add more and new stories of non-whites in (which would have been welcome) - they've thrown everyone in the same boat and damned them all. The last 400 years. The lot.

    They've equated slavery and colonialism as exactly the same thing, linked people together to both with all sorts of tendentious and tangential evidence, without context, and littered the foreword and the main body report with Wokeness about "power" and "privilege" and a general narcisstic tone of atonement permeates the whole report.

    It's largely been written by agenda pursuing left-wing academics - a hectoring, partial, nihilistic, anti-patriotic hatchet job - and the NT has contracted this out to them in the belief this creates "inclusivity" and "all parts of society" - when in reality it will do the opposite.

    If that's the furrow they want to plough in future they won't be getting any more of my money. And I have told them so.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-national-trusts-shameful-manifesto/amp

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8762205/amp/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-dare-National-Trust-link-Wordsworth-slavery.html

    You're the loser - you'll miss out on being able to visit the finest collection of architectural gems, historical monuments and beuatiful gardens in the world.
    Shite academic garbage needs to be given the boot.

    Mind you, I remember being told of for doing a presentation on the the Middle Passage aka the Triangular Trade....
  • That, it seems to me, is the real lesson from Sweden. There were many people in the Swedish medical establishment who profoundly disagreed – and still disagree – with the policies recommended by the State Epidemiologist. There was an open debate and individuals were allowed to make their own choices. The outcome was mixed and the sources of failure have been identified and followed up. In the UK – across all of the nations – the attitude is that we (the “experts”) know better than everyone else and you must just do what we say. That is never a good story in an educated democracy. It is especially weak when the self-declared experts are easily challenged on a string of assumptions and issues so that their credibility cannot be sustained. All that is being achieved is a polarization of trust and belief in the competence of both politicians and those who advise them.



    https://lockdownsceptics.org/testing-muddle-and-myth/
  • IanB2 said:

    But then no European country had a death rate as bad as Britain’s because no other European country put the village idiot in charge.

    :D:D:D

    Brilliant!
  • OnboardG1 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Does BoZo ditch Cummings in a desperate attempt to shore up his premiership, or does Gove engineer BoZo's departure to maintain Cummings' position...

    Whooooa. That's an interesting idea.
    I never thought I'd hear myself say this (which has happened a lot lately) but... can we ditch the lot of them and have Jeremy Hunt?
    I was wondering idly yesterday how completely different or not the plague response would have been under Hunt. Years as health secretary. Not a clown. No Cummings running the State like it's total war against all.

    It's an interesting counterfactual.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    OnboardG1 said:

    dixiedean said:

    There is no culture war. There is conflict of course but 'twas ever thus. But War suggests you have to go all in one side or the other.
    Right now one can be opposed to abortion whilst admitting our role in Empire wasn't entirely good.
    You can sing Rule Brittania whilst supporting trans rights.
    I'd very much like to keep it that way, and not feel pressured into my opinions on any subject out of loyalty to my "team", or out fear of giving the other lot a "win".

    That's a nice way of looking at it and I tend to agree. It's why I look at the frothing (whether boycotting Dove or the National Trust) with a degree of bemusement. This is something the Americans (particularly the GOP) do. I'd prefer we didn't. Which is the reason I like Starmer.
    Though it is annoying when the idiots take over organisations. The RNLI is currently being "improved" - bigger head offices are always a bad sign. And if they are really interested in increasing minority participation in boat crews, the answer is not in London. Not very many crews there..... well, 2 stations, IIRC.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    IanB2 said:

    But then no European country had a death rate as bad as Britain’s because no other European country put the village idiot in charge.

    It's not true though, the Spanish also put their village idiot in charge. France as well.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/queues-form-drive-thru-flu-19004110

    This is how we're running the Flu Vaccine Initiative up here. A 90 minute wait in a queue is probably annoying but it's certainly a good way to get your vaccine risk-free. I suspect as they get more practice that'll reduce. I'm getting mine at my local pharmacy the week after next.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited September 2020

    OnboardG1 said:

    dixiedean said:

    There is no culture war. There is conflict of course but 'twas ever thus. But War suggests you have to go all in one side or the other.
    Right now one can be opposed to abortion whilst admitting our role in Empire wasn't entirely good.
    You can sing Rule Brittania whilst supporting trans rights.
    I'd very much like to keep it that way, and not feel pressured into my opinions on any subject out of loyalty to my "team", or out fear of giving the other lot a "win".

    That's a nice way of looking at it and I tend to agree. It's why I look at the frothing (whether boycotting Dove or the National Trust) with a degree of bemusement. This is something the Americans (particularly the GOP) do. I'd prefer we didn't. Which is the reason I like Starmer.
    Though it is annoying when the idiots take over organisations. The RNLI is currently being "improved" - bigger head offices are always a bad sign. And if they are really interested in increasing minority participation in boat crews, the answer is not in London. Not very many crews there..... well, 2 stations, IIRC.
    Their problem is they are drowning in money and have to spend it on something. They do annoy the fuck out of me: soliciting donations from little old ladies who think they are saving penniless seafarers when mostly they are rescuing twits in yachts who should pay for their own rescues. Plus one hears a fair number of stories of incompetence and poor seamanship on their part, so perhaps more training would be more useful than the HQ upgrade.
  • Yet I reckon if I walked down Winchcombe High Street tomorrow afternoon and asked the first ten adults I met 'Who is the leader of the Labour Party?' not more than four would give the correct answer.
  • MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    But then no European country had a death rate as bad as Britain’s because no other European country put the village idiot in charge.

    It's not true though, the Spanish also put their village idiot in charge. France as well.
    Not the USA though. They went for a game-show host.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,366
    IshmaelZ said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    dixiedean said:

    There is no culture war. There is conflict of course but 'twas ever thus. But War suggests you have to go all in one side or the other.
    Right now one can be opposed to abortion whilst admitting our role in Empire wasn't entirely good.
    You can sing Rule Brittania whilst supporting trans rights.
    I'd very much like to keep it that way, and not feel pressured into my opinions on any subject out of loyalty to my "team", or out fear of giving the other lot a "win".

    That's a nice way of looking at it and I tend to agree. It's why I look at the frothing (whether boycotting Dove or the National Trust) with a degree of bemusement. This is something the Americans (particularly the GOP) do. I'd prefer we didn't. Which is the reason I like Starmer.
    Though it is annoying when the idiots take over organisations. The RNLI is currently being "improved" - bigger head offices are always a bad sign. And if they are really interested in increasing minority participation in boat crews, the answer is not in London. Not very many crews there..... well, 2 stations, IIRC.
    Their problem is they are drowning in money and have to spend it on something. They do annoy the fuck out of me: soliciting donations from little old ladies who think they are saving penniless seafarers when mostly they are rescuing twits in yachts who should pay for their own rescues. Plus one hears a fair number of stories of incompetence and poor seamanship on their part, so perhaps more training would be more useful than the HQ upgrade.
    Twas ever thus. Next step will to be stuff up the next class of lifeboat - by improving the procurement process.

    Talking to some of the guys on the frontline - which I did - some of them suggested that if the country needs a beefed up Coast Guard / Fisheries service, they were up for it. One of them asked if they could get prize money, for seizing people smuggling RIBs.....
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Yet I reckon if I walked down Winchcombe High Street tomorrow afternoon and asked the first ten adults I met 'Who is the leader of the Labour Party?' not more than four would give the correct answer.
    If you're given two alternatives "Pile of shit and ???" then the devil you know won't usually be the winner.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    But then no European country had a death rate as bad as Britain’s because no other European country put the village idiot in charge.

    It's not true though, the Spanish also put their village idiot in charge. France as well.
    Why are you all being so mean to village idiots?
This discussion has been closed.