So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
Cameron is making the same point that I did a few days ago. The clause does not break the WA. It simply gives Ministers the power to break the agreement in the event that they think that is necessary. Of course, should such a scenario arise Parliament could pass the relevant legislation at that time. Why is it thought necessary to pass it now and leave it to Ministerial discretion rather than the discretion of Parliament? I really don't understand why we are having this wholly confected row now.
To show the EU we are serious at standing up for ourselves in the negotiations?
And if the EU have threatened as claimed UK food trade with NI then it makes sense to pass this now. If the EU haven't threatened that then this passing actually won't mean much so what is the big deal?
Any sovereign state or Institution, including the EU, has the right to revoke a treaty agreement at any point. This is one of the fundamental differences between domestic law and international law. They may have agreed that certain penalties arise in the event of such breach or the penalty may be left in the discretion of the counterparty. In this case if we breach these parts of the WA it would be for the EU to decide whether they were withdrawing the rights granted to NI under the WA. This is completely unnecessary row at this point and is putting the government in a very bad place. It is also seriously damaging to our long term interests as we want to be taken as a country of our word. It's beyond stupid.
The negotiations are happening now and are at a critical junction now.
If you want to use this as a tool in the negotiations then now is the time it needs to be done. Keep waiting and it will be too late.
It’s a term that’s never before appeared in English law appearing, undefined, for the first time. So no one knows what it means in this context.
You can meet with more than 6 people if this is necessary to prevent harm. Drives a coach and horses through the rules that exception.
On Thursday night I will be meeting with more than 6 people in Wetherspoons in Sheffield, to prevent harm to the economy.
You can only mingle with 5 under the law.
No - there is a “harm” exception: “for you or someone else to avoid illness, injury or harm” or where everyone “is in the same support bubble” or “for voluntary or charitable services” or “for providing support to a vulnerable person”.
Then there is the definition of a “support group” in the new regulation 5A.
And you also have to read these new regulations together with the old ones to understand exactly what is or is not permitted. The new ones do not stand alone. There is the arse-aching exercise of going through inserting and deleting all the different provisions to get to a definitive version of what is or is not a criminal offence since this morning.
It is a scandalous way of making a new law quite apart from the utter failure to involve Parliament at all.
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
IDS is far too thick to understand what it is all about. I am beginning to think that perhaps Bozo is actually not much brighter than IDS. I suspect the lightweights didn't realise there was going to be a problem with this when he and Cummings first dreamt up their cunning plan. As I have said before, the fundamental problem is Johnson. He has no leadership skills and is, as a consequence, the worst PM in living memory. It gets more apparent by the day. Eventually everyone will wake up to the fact that Johnson is the chocolate teapot Prime Minister.
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
IDS is far too thick to understand what it is all about. I am beginning to think that perhaps Bozo is actually not much brighter than IDS. I suspect the lightweights didn't realise there was going to be a problem with this when he and Cummings first dreamt up their cunning plan. As I have said before, the fundamental problem is Johnson. He has no leadership skills and is, as a consequence, the worst PM in living memory. It gets more apparent by the day. Eventually everyone will wake up to the fact that Johnson is the chocolate teapot Prime Minister.
To be fair to Boris he also won a bigger majority than every living former Tory leader ever managed too
So, my 9 year old daughter has what appears to be a cold. Sniffles. Minor cough, sore throat. Kept her off school despite various other kids at her school / the school my wife works at having symptoms.
Have had a look on the website for a test. Got a "This Service is Very Busy" message. More tests may be available later apparently. "Do not call the helplines - you will not be able to get a test this way"
My friend who has been told she has been exposed to the pox has had the same message when she's looked multiple times a day. For the last 4 days.
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
Cameron is making the same point that I did a few days ago. The clause does not break the WA. It simply gives Ministers the power to break the agreement in the event that they think that is necessary. Of course, should such a scenario arise Parliament could pass the relevant legislation at that time. Why is it thought necessary to pass it now and leave it to Ministerial discretion rather than the discretion of Parliament? I really don't understand why we are having this wholly confected row now.
To show the EU we are serious at standing up for ourselves in the negotiations?
And if the EU have threatened as claimed UK food trade with NI then it makes sense to pass this now. If the EU haven't threatened that then this passing actually won't mean much so what is the big deal?
Any sovereign state or Institution, including the EU, has the right to revoke a treaty agreement at any point. This is one of the fundamental differences between domestic law and international law. They may have agreed that certain penalties arise in the event of such breach or the penalty may be left in the discretion of the counterparty. In this case if we breach these parts of the WA it would be for the EU to decide whether they were withdrawing the rights granted to NI under the WA. This is completely unnecessary row at this point and is putting the government in a very bad place. It is also seriously damaging to our long term interests as we want to be taken as a country of our word. It's beyond stupid.
I don't think this is the case. Under the Vienna conventions you can only revoke a treaty if the treaty itself allows for it. In general the treaty is still live if one party breaches it because the whole point of treaties is to get the other side to make commitments that it might be unwilling to meet when push comes to shove.
There is nothing to stop one party going to the other to inform them that they intend to revoke the treaty, hopefully with that party's agreement. Equally if you don't meet your treaty obligations it's up to the other side to do something about it.
It’s a term that’s never before appeared in English law appearing, undefined, for the first time. So no one knows what it means in this context.
You can meet with more than 6 people if this is necessary to prevent harm. Drives a coach and horses through the rules that exception.
On Thursday night I will be meeting with more than 6 people in Wetherspoons in Sheffield, to prevent harm to the economy.
You can only mingle with 5 under the law.
Lol - there will be more than 1 member of staff in addition to the 5 of us. Its a pub. People mingle by walking past each other. Rule of Six simply doesn't work and they know it. And pretty sure people know it. We will need something very simple and rational as the pox spike accelerates. This isn't it.
There is probably much truth in the observation that Britain is terrified of the rest of Europe uniting against it, and that Brexit may have stemmed in part from this kind of paranoia. Of course the irony is that Brexit achieves the very thing that these people are afraid of, leaving us weak and isolated. Even the Irish are on the other side now, and maybe the Scots too soon (we live in hope). Well played Little Englanders, you really are geniuses.
Before the Act of Union England fought more wars with Scotland than any other nation bar France.
The Irish were even neutral in WW2
Why don't you just draw conclusions for modern politics from the Battles of Flodden, Bannockburn, Athelstaneford and for all I know Camlann? It would just as useful.
And the Irish were not that neutral in WW2. Certainly not at a services level. That's a particularly nasty canard of yours [edit], especially as their neutrality kept the Germans out and saved the Allies a potentially very difficult war of occupation.
I'm not suggesting that trade deals with other countries are mutually exclusive though. Please point to where I have?
Even you must see how dynamic alignment on the LPF is a non-starter for the UK, if the EU doesn't budge then it will be no deal.
Oh, don't get me wrong, it's good that we have carried over the existing EU deal with Japan with some improvements. It's just that it's not a big deal in the overall scheme of things. The big ones would be the EU (which we are in the process of trashing), and the US, where I think the chances of a comprehensive deal are near zero, and made nearer zero by the government's latest antics.
As for dynamic alignment, there will certainly have to be some. For example, there is no chance of an EU deal which doesn't include recognition of future protected geographical indications. The irony is that with the UK government deliberately committing us to an unrealisable timescale, making painfully little progress in preparing for either a deal or for no deal, and deliberately destroying trust, our already weak negotiating position is just getting worse and worse. The way this is going, we're going to have to accept any terms we can get. The only question is whether it is Boris that does the humiliating cave-in in the next few weeks, or someone more grown-up picking up the pieces after the administrative and political chaos has kicked in.
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
Cameron is making the same point that I did a few days ago. The clause does not break the WA. It simply gives Ministers the power to break the agreement in the event that they think that is necessary. Of course, should such a scenario arise Parliament could pass the relevant legislation at that time. Why is it thought necessary to pass it now and leave it to Ministerial discretion rather than the discretion of Parliament? I really don't understand why we are having this wholly confected row now.
And why Remain supporting Brandon Lewis presented it in such an inflammatory way.
He said what he said so he would not be misleading Parliament.
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
IDS is far too thick to understand what it is all about. I am beginning to think that perhaps Bozo is actually not much brighter than IDS. I suspect the lightweights didn't realise there was going to be a problem with this when he and Cummings first dreamt up their cunning plan. As I have said before, the fundamental problem is Johnson. He has no leadership skills and is, as a consequence, the worst PM in living memory. It gets more apparent by the day. Eventually everyone will wake up to the fact that Johnson is the chocolate teapot Prime Minister.
To be fair to Boris he also won a bigger majority than every living former Tory leader ever managed too
I sense that even you might be questioning his appropriateness to have been given such an endorsement? He won the interview (against a very shabby other candidate) with flying colours, no doubt. That is very very different from being able to do the job. It is time he recognised it and stepped down. Sadly Dominic will want him to stay right there.
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
Cameron is making the same point that I did a few days ago. The clause does not break the WA. It simply gives Ministers the power to break the agreement in the event that they think that is necessary. Of course, should such a scenario arise Parliament could pass the relevant legislation at that time. Why is it thought necessary to pass it now and leave it to Ministerial discretion rather than the discretion of Parliament? I really don't understand why we are having this wholly confected row now.
To show the EU we are serious at standing up for ourselves in the negotiations?
And if the EU have threatened as claimed UK food trade with NI then it makes sense to pass this now. If the EU haven't threatened that then this passing actually won't mean much so what is the big deal?
The EU cannot threaten food supplies to Northern Ireland, so the entire argument is predicated on a lie. What's more, state aid rules have absolutely npthing to do with protecting food supplies.
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
IDS is far too thick to understand what it is all about. I am beginning to think that perhaps Bozo is actually not much brighter than IDS. I suspect the lightweights didn't realise there was going to be a problem with this when he and Cummings first dreamt up their cunning plan. As I have said before, the fundamental problem is Johnson. He has no leadership skills and is, as a consequence, the worst PM in living memory. It gets more apparent by the day. Eventually everyone will wake up to the fact that Johnson is the chocolate teapot Prime Minister.
To be fair to Boris he also won a bigger majority than every living former Tory leader ever managed too
By lying to voters about his principal achievement, which he now wants to tear up. Yes - he’ll be in the history books alright.
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
Cameron is making the same point that I did a few days ago. The clause does not break the WA. It simply gives Ministers the power to break the agreement in the event that they think that is necessary. Of course, should such a scenario arise Parliament could pass the relevant legislation at that time. Why is it thought necessary to pass it now and leave it to Ministerial discretion rather than the discretion of Parliament? I really don't understand why we are having this wholly confected row now.
And why Remain supporting Brandon Lewis presented it in such an inflammatory way.
He said what he said so he would not be misleading Parliament.
I am pretty sure Brandon Lewis was deliberately provocative. Presumably Cummings etc saw political advantage in putting two fingers up at the EU.
He could have presented Suella Braverman's justification. If it's authoritative enough for the Attorney General, it's good enough for parliament.
So, my 9 year old daughter has what appears to be a cold. Sniffles. Minor cough, sore throat. Kept her off school despite various other kids at her school / the school my wife works at having symptoms.
Have had a look on the website for a test. Got a "This Service is Very Busy" message. More tests may be available later apparently. "Do not call the helplines - you will not be able to get a test this way"
My friend who has been told she has been exposed to the pox has had the same message when she's looked multiple times a day. For the last 4 days.
World beating...
Got a feeling this is the thing that will really cut through this week. Folk who don't follow the news closely will be vaguely aware of our world beating system. And that the virus is "back". Millions have kids or grandkids at school. Most of them will have summat or other ailment by now. Few will get a prompt, convenient test. Many not at all.
I'm not suggesting that trade deals with other countries are mutually exclusive though. Please point to where I have?
Even you must see how dynamic alignment on the LPF is a non-starter for the UK, if the EU doesn't budge then it will be no deal.
Oh, don't get me wrong, it's good that we have carried over the existing EU deal with Japan with some improvements. It's just that it's not a big deal in the overall scheme of things. The big ones would be the EU (which we are in the process of trashing), and the US, where I think the chances of a comprehensive deal are near zero, and made nearer zero by the government's latest antics.
As for dynamic alignment, there will certainly have to be some. For example, there is no chance of an EU deal which doesn't include recognition of future protected geographical indications. The irony is that with the UK government deliberately committing us to an unrealisable timescale, making painfully little progress in preparing for either a deal or for no deal, and deliberately destroying trust, our already weak negotiating position is just getting worse and worse. The way this is going, we're going to have to accept any terms we can get. The only question is whether it is Boris that does the humiliating cave-in in the next few weeks, or someone more grown-up picking up the pieces after the administrative and political chaos has kicked in.
You make out like the EU is the whole world and poor little Britain is tiny.
The UK and Japan combined alone have more than 50% of EU GDP so no the difference is not as vast as you make out.
I'm not suggesting that trade deals with other countries are mutually exclusive though. Please point to where I have?
Even you must see how dynamic alignment on the LPF is a non-starter for the UK, if the EU doesn't budge then it will be no deal.
Oh, don't get me wrong, it's good that we have carried over the existing EU deal with Japan with some improvements. It's just that it's not a big deal in the overall scheme of things. The big ones would be the EU (which we are in the process of trashing), and the US, where I think the chances of a comprehensive deal are near zero, and made nearer zero by the government's latest antics.
As for dynamic alignment, there will certainly have to be some. For example, there is no chance of an EU deal which doesn't include recognition of future protected geographical indications. The irony is that with the UK government deliberately committing us to an unrealisable timescale, making painfully little progress in preparing for either a deal or for no deal, and deliberately destroying trust, our already weak negotiating position is just getting worse and worse. The way this is going, we're going to have to accept any terms we can get. The only question is whether it is Boris that does the humiliating cave-in in the next few weeks, or someone more grown-up picking up the pieces after the administrative and political chaos has kicked in.
I think the government probably gives no fucks about carrying over dynamic alignment on GIs as long as it's reciprocal and decisions on creating new GIs are standardised for both parties.
It's the regulatory, tax, environmental, competition and aid rules that are causing the issue. I could just about see the government signing up for environmental dynamic alignment given that our rules tend to be tougher than the EU's base minimum but the rest are next to impossible. If the EU insists on them we have to no deal, there isn't any other option.
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
It’s a term that’s never before appeared in English law appearing, undefined, for the first time. So no one knows what it means in this context.
You can meet with more than 6 people if this is necessary to prevent harm. Drives a coach and horses through the rules that exception.
On Thursday night I will be meeting with more than 6 people in Wetherspoons in Sheffield, to prevent harm to the economy.
You can only mingle with 5 under the law.
Lol - there will be more than 1 member of staff in addition to the 5 of us. Its a pub. People mingle by walking past each other. Rule of Six simply doesn't work and they know it. And pretty sure people know it. We will need something very simple and rational as the pox spike accelerates. This isn't it.
Serious question then. what would you do?
Either the answer is
1) Nothing 2) Close the pubs 3) Some fudge which tries to limit risk, but opens up all the 'ah but what about X, or what about Y, or what about Z' questions.
Another question then. Why is the age of consent 16 years? Why not 16 years and one day, or 15 years and 364 days?
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
I'm not suggesting that trade deals with other countries are mutually exclusive though. Please point to where I have?
Even you must see how dynamic alignment on the LPF is a non-starter for the UK, if the EU doesn't budge then it will be no deal.
Oh, don't get me wrong, it's good that we have carried over the existing EU deal with Japan with some improvements. It's just that it's not a big deal in the overall scheme of things. The big ones would be the EU (which we are in the process of trashing), and the US, where I think the chances of a comprehensive deal are near zero, and made nearer zero by the government's latest antics.
As for dynamic alignment, there will certainly have to be some. For example, there is no chance of an EU deal which doesn't include recognition of future protected geographical indications. The irony is that with the UK government deliberately committing us to an unrealisable timescale, making painfully little progress in preparing for either a deal or for no deal, and deliberately destroying trust, our already weak negotiating position is just getting worse and worse. The way this is going, we're going to have to accept any terms we can get. The only question is whether it is Boris that does the humiliating cave-in in the next few weeks, or someone more grown-up picking up the pieces after the administrative and political chaos has kicked in.
You make out like the EU is the whole world and poor little Britain is tiny.
The UK and Japan combined alone have more than 50% of EU GDP so no the difference is not as vast as you make out.
The value of trade is smaller, Richard is right about the importance of getting a deal, but the cost of it is far, far too high with the LPF demands.
So, my 9 year old daughter has what appears to be a cold. Sniffles. Minor cough, sore throat. Kept her off school despite various other kids at her school / the school my wife works at having symptoms.
Have had a look on the website for a test. Got a "This Service is Very Busy" message. More tests may be available later apparently. "Do not call the helplines - you will not be able to get a test this way"
My friend who has been told she has been exposed to the pox has had the same message when she's looked multiple times a day. For the last 4 days.
World beating...
Clearly something is going wrong and the system can only clear a reduced number of tests. It isn't a case of unexpected demand.
I, and I think most governments, would do a root cause analysis, explain what was going wrong and let people know what we would do to fix it.
So, my 9 year old daughter has what appears to be a cold. Sniffles. Minor cough, sore throat. Kept her off school despite various other kids at her school / the school my wife works at having symptoms.
Have had a look on the website for a test. Got a "This Service is Very Busy" message. More tests may be available later apparently. "Do not call the helplines - you will not be able to get a test this way"
My friend who has been told she has been exposed to the pox has had the same message when she's looked multiple times a day. For the last 4 days.
World beating...
If it's sniffles then it's highly, highly unlikely that she's got the Rona as it's a non-productive virus (it doesn't make people phlegmy at all).
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
IDS is far too thick to understand what it is all about. I am beginning to think that perhaps Bozo is actually not much brighter than IDS. I suspect the lightweights didn't realise there was going to be a problem with this when he and Cummings first dreamt up their cunning plan. As I have said before, the fundamental problem is Johnson. He has no leadership skills and is, as a consequence, the worst PM in living memory. It gets more apparent by the day. Eventually everyone will wake up to the fact that Johnson is the chocolate teapot Prime Minister.
To be fair to Boris he also won a bigger majority than every living former Tory leader ever managed too
By lying to voters about his principal achievement, which he now wants to tear up. Yes - he’ll be in the history books alright.
He won on a platform of beating Corbyn and delivering Brexit Deal or No Deal
Collectively together yes, but not nec. individually. It's like if you are the sole beneficiary from a will, it's often well worth a DIY probate as you benefit from every penny [edit] from saving on a lawyer for most of the work. If you are one of 10 then the hassle isn't worth it as you get no benefit from 90% of the will, and the cost is spread between 10.
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
The Tory critics will intensify if this happens. Clearly Cummings can't throw out Major, May, Howard, Cox, Hague and Lamont and Cameron in the way the less senior sceptics were despatched last year.
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
Yes, I think I agree. In which case Starmer could be making a mistake if he opposes rather than abstaining?
I'm not suggesting that trade deals with other countries are mutually exclusive though. Please point to where I have?
Even you must see how dynamic alignment on the LPF is a non-starter for the UK, if the EU doesn't budge then it will be no deal.
Oh, don't get me wrong, it's good that we have carried over the existing EU deal with Japan with some improvements. It's just that it's not a big deal in the overall scheme of things. The big ones would be the EU (which we are in the process of trashing), and the US, where I think the chances of a comprehensive deal are near zero, and made nearer zero by the government's latest antics.
As for dynamic alignment, there will certainly have to be some. For example, there is no chance of an EU deal which doesn't include recognition of future protected geographical indications. The irony is that with the UK government deliberately committing us to an unrealisable timescale, making painfully little progress in preparing for either a deal or for no deal, and deliberately destroying trust, our already weak negotiating position is just getting worse and worse. The way this is going, we're going to have to accept any terms we can get. The only question is whether it is Boris that does the humiliating cave-in in the next few weeks, or someone more grown-up picking up the pieces after the administrative and political chaos has kicked in.
You make out like the EU is the whole world and poor little Britain is tiny.
The UK and Japan combined alone have more than 50% of EU GDP so no the difference is not as vast as you make out.
The value of trade is smaller, Richard is right about the importance of getting a deal, but the cost of it is far, far too high with the LPF demands.
Oh absolutely of course getting a deal is important but not at unlimited price.
And of course trade is distorted because we've had free trade with Europe for decades whereas trade with Japan has been restricted until now. If the regulatory barriers were to reverse then you would inevitably expect some correction, it cuts both ways - even if Europe would inevitably be more significant still it isn't the end of the world if we can't reach a deal.
It’s a term that’s never before appeared in English law appearing, undefined, for the first time. So no one knows what it means in this context.
You can meet with more than 6 people if this is necessary to prevent harm. Drives a coach and horses through the rules that exception.
On Thursday night I will be meeting with more than 6 people in Wetherspoons in Sheffield, to prevent harm to the economy.
You can only mingle with 5 under the law.
Lol - there will be more than 1 member of staff in addition to the 5 of us. Its a pub. People mingle by walking past each other. Rule of Six simply doesn't work and they know it. And pretty sure people know it. We will need something very simple and rational as the pox spike accelerates. This isn't it.
Serious question then. what would you do?
Either the answer is
1) Nothing 2) Close the pubs 3) Some fudge which tries to limit risk, but opens up all the 'ah but what about X, or what about Y, or what about Z' questions.
Another question then. Why is the age of consent 16 years? Why not 16 years and one day, or 15 years and 364 days?
Why not 17 or 18, or 15 or 13?
Answer, because there has to be an number.
What’s the point of closing pubs when work, transport, schools, universities, sporting competitions etc are open? That’s not going to stop the spread.
It’s a term that’s never before appeared in English law appearing, undefined, for the first time. So no one knows what it means in this context.
You can meet with more than 6 people if this is necessary to prevent harm. Drives a coach and horses through the rules that exception.
On Thursday night I will be meeting with more than 6 people in Wetherspoons in Sheffield, to prevent harm to the economy.
You can only mingle with 5 under the law.
Lol - there will be more than 1 member of staff in addition to the 5 of us. Its a pub. People mingle by walking past each other. Rule of Six simply doesn't work and they know it. And pretty sure people know it. We will need something very simple and rational as the pox spike accelerates. This isn't it.
Serious question then. what would you do?
Either the answer is
1) Nothing 2) Close the pubs 3) Some fudge which tries to limit risk, but opens up all the 'ah but what about X, or what about Y, or what about Z' questions.
Another question then. Why is the age of consent 16 years? Why not 16 years and one day, or 15 years and 364 days?
Why not 17 or 18, or 15 or 13?
Answer, because there has to be an number.
What’s the point of closing pubs when work, transport, schools, universities, sporting competitions etc are open? That’s not going to stop the spread.
I'm not advocating doing so but the spread doesn't need to be stopped, it needs to be controlled. If the R can be kept at close to 1 then we will be OK until a vaccine arrives. It isn't a case of all or nothing.
It’s a term that’s never before appeared in English law appearing, undefined, for the first time. So no one knows what it means in this context.
You can meet with more than 6 people if this is necessary to prevent harm. Drives a coach and horses through the rules that exception.
On Thursday night I will be meeting with more than 6 people in Wetherspoons in Sheffield, to prevent harm to the economy.
You can only mingle with 5 under the law.
Lol - there will be more than 1 member of staff in addition to the 5 of us. Its a pub. People mingle by walking past each other. Rule of Six simply doesn't work and they know it. And pretty sure people know it. We will need something very simple and rational as the pox spike accelerates. This isn't it.
Serious question then. what would you do?
Either the answer is
1) Nothing 2) Close the pubs 3) Some fudge which tries to limit risk, but opens up all the 'ah but what about X, or what about Y, or what about Z' questions.
Another question then. Why is the age of consent 16 years? Why not 16 years and one day, or 15 years and 364 days?
Why not 17 or 18, or 15 or 13?
Answer, because there has to be an number.
I proposed my solution days ago. We need to go back to 2m spacing with mask use in buildings that are not your home and in outdoor spaces where 2m spacing isn't possible. People understood 2m. 1m+ in practice is 0m, and has removed all of the capacity reduction measures we saw in shops.
Instead we have this utter nonsense. Kids can spend all day crushed into a classroom that doesn't have enough space to fit them in the mandated rows. But if they play football in the park after school its against the law. I can spend the day in the office with colleagues. But if we go down the pub afterwards its illegal. Can have 30 in a church for a funeral. If they go to a wake afterwards its illegal.
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
IDS is far too thick to understand what it is all about. I am beginning to think that perhaps Bozo is actually not much brighter than IDS. I suspect the lightweights didn't realise there was going to be a problem with this when he and Cummings first dreamt up their cunning plan. As I have said before, the fundamental problem is Johnson. He has no leadership skills and is, as a consequence, the worst PM in living memory. It gets more apparent by the day. Eventually everyone will wake up to the fact that Johnson is the chocolate teapot Prime Minister.
To be fair to Boris he also won a bigger majority than every living former Tory leader ever managed too
By lying to voters about his principal achievement, which he now wants to tear up. Yes - he’ll be in the history books alright.
The WA is very far from being Boris' principal achievement - sending socialism back to its crypt for a generation is his principal achievement so far, and he's been PM for just over a year. Plenty more to come, I'm sure.
Deaths from heart attacks double during the pandemic. Hospital mortality due to myocardial infarction has doubled during the coronavirus pandemic, according to a registry of the Spanish Society of Cardiology (SEC) that has compared data from last April with those of 2019. According to this registry, in which 75 Spanish hospitals have participated, COVID-19 has had a "tremendous impact" on acute mortality from heart attack. "Specifically, hospital mortality from this cause has practically doubled during the pandemic compared to the previous period," explains the doctor. Oriol Rodríguez Leor, in charge of the study.
So, my 9 year old daughter has what appears to be a cold. Sniffles. Minor cough, sore throat. Kept her off school despite various other kids at her school / the school my wife works at having symptoms.
Have had a look on the website for a test. Got a "This Service is Very Busy" message. More tests may be available later apparently. "Do not call the helplines - you will not be able to get a test this way"
My friend who has been told she has been exposed to the pox has had the same message when she's looked multiple times a day. For the last 4 days.
World beating...
If it's sniffles then it's highly, highly unlikely that she's got the Rona as it's a non-productive virus (it doesn't make people phlegmy at all).
I know. But the guidelines are clear - cold and rona symptoms are interchangeable in younger kids, and if they have a cough get them tested. TBH I went on the site out of curiosity about tests if she gets worse. Can't even be told to drive to Swansea - the system has ceased to function.
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
The Tory critics will intensify if this happens. Clearly Cummings can't throw out Major, May, Howard, Cox, Hague and Lamont and Cameron.
Apparently data privacy is another thing to be abolished by Dom so that his friends can get their hands on the loot to be made by selling it.
Compliance withe Data Privacy regulation enables companies to do things with data they otherwise can't do. Margaret Thatcher understood this, which is why she brought in the first Data Protection Act. It wasn't because of any concern for the citizen.
So, my 9 year old daughter has what appears to be a cold. Sniffles. Minor cough, sore throat. Kept her off school despite various other kids at her school / the school my wife works at having symptoms.
Have had a look on the website for a test. Got a "This Service is Very Busy" message. More tests may be available later apparently. "Do not call the helplines - you will not be able to get a test this way"
My friend who has been told she has been exposed to the pox has had the same message when she's looked multiple times a day. For the last 4 days.
World beating...
If it's sniffles then it's highly, highly unlikely that she's got the Rona as it's a non-productive virus (it doesn't make people phlegmy at all).
I know. But the guidelines are clear - cold and rona symptoms are interchangeable in younger kids, and if they have a cough get them tested. TBH I went on the site out of curiosity about tests if she gets worse. Can't even be told to drive to Swansea - the system has ceased to function.
Ah man, I'm not blaming you in any sense. The guidelines are clearly a bunch of rubbish along with the system, just wanted to let you know that she probably doesn't have the Rona.
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
Yes, I think I agree. In which case Starmer could be making a mistake if he opposes rather than abstaining?
No as he wants to force the government to rely on the DUP and expose Tory splits
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
The Tory critics will intensify if this happens. Clearly Cummings can't throw out Major, May, Howard, Cox, Hague and Lamont and Cameron.
Interesting times ahead, in the next few weeks.
I think he can and probably will.
But - hubris.
In a way that last year wasn't, that would surely be the end of the modern Conservative and Unionist Party.
I think the government probably gives no fucks about carrying over dynamic alignment on GIs as long as it's reciprocal and decisions on creating new GIs are standardised for both parties.
It's the regulatory, tax, environmental, competition and aid rules that are causing the issue. I could just about see the government signing up for environmental dynamic alignment given that our rules tend to be tougher than the EU's base minimum but the rest are next to impossible. If the EU insists on them we have to no deal, there isn't any other option.
The EU have actually been pretty reasonable on this. Their opening position was that we sign up to their rules, even as they change, with oversight by the ECJ. A tough stance, but not outrageously so for an opening position. Now they have accepted that other arrangements might be acceptable, for example on state aid, and they've asked the UK to submit its proposals for the state aid regime and how it would be enforced. That's fair enough, except that UK government - with just a few weeks to go before businesses will have to implement all the paperwork - still hasn't submitted anything precise. Instead it has gone down a massive blind-alley of threatening to break its own word. I'm struggling to think of anything more incompetent in modern history. They seem to be in total denial about their own stupid self-imposed deadline.
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
Cameron is making the same point that I did a few days ago. The clause does not break the WA. It simply gives Ministers the power to break the agreement in the event that they think that is necessary. Of course, should such a scenario arise Parliament could pass the relevant legislation at that time. Why is it thought necessary to pass it now and leave it to Ministerial discretion rather than the discretion of Parliament? I really don't understand why we are having this wholly confected row now.
To show the EU we are serious at standing up for ourselves in the negotiations?
And if the EU have threatened as claimed UK food trade with NI then it makes sense to pass this now. If the EU haven't threatened that then this passing actually won't mean much so what is the big deal?
Any sovereign state or Institution, including the EU, has the right to revoke a treaty agreement at any point. This is one of the fundamental differences between domestic law and international law. They may have agreed that certain penalties arise in the event of such breach or the penalty may be left in the discretion of the counterparty. In this case if we breach these parts of the WA it would be for the EU to decide whether they were withdrawing the rights granted to NI under the WA. This is completely unnecessary row at this point and is putting the government in a very bad place. It is also seriously damaging to our long term interests as we want to be taken as a country of our word. It's beyond stupid.
I don't think this is the case. Under the Vienna conventions you can only revoke a treaty if the treaty itself allows for it. In general the treaty is still live if one party breaches it because the whole point of treaties is to get the other side to make commitments that it might be unwilling to meet when push comes to shove.
There is nothing to stop one party going to the other to inform them that they intend to revoke the treaty, hopefully with that party's agreement. Equally if you don't meet your treaty obligations it's up to the other side to do something about it.
So a country breaks the rules of the Vienna Convention. What do you, invade? Countries do not like the wild west aspect of international "law" so they look to tie countries down but, unless the parties have agreed otherwise in their agreement, there is no enforcement body other than putting that country on the naughty step. The equiperation between domestic criminal law and international "law" is deeply flawed but that does not mean this is anything other than stupid and damaging to our long term interests.
Sometimes I think we over-complicate things. In line with its dominant philosophy, this government has to decide who to blame for the severe troubles that undoubtedly lie ahead over the next six months (and longer). There are three main possibilities: a) Covid, b) the EU, c) remainers/the Labour Party. The last of these is largely withdrawing from the battle, for now, so that leaves a) and b). Covid is a bit unpredictable, so we need to make sure that we can blame the EU as well - so let's use our messaging to convince folk that the EU is a mendacious, scheming foreign power. Fairly easy to do, as many voters already think this, and the Telegraph, Mail and Express are very obliging.
Oh, and for good measure those liberal lefties at the BBC can be put in the frame as well. We'll find more targets as and when we need them.
The government is world-beating in all respects; Covid and the EU are to blame for our woes.
So, my 9 year old daughter has what appears to be a cold. Sniffles. Minor cough, sore throat. Kept her off school despite various other kids at her school / the school my wife works at having symptoms.
Have had a look on the website for a test. Got a "This Service is Very Busy" message. More tests may be available later apparently. "Do not call the helplines - you will not be able to get a test this way"
My friend who has been told she has been exposed to the pox has had the same message when she's looked multiple times a day. For the last 4 days.
World beating...
Clearly something is going wrong and the system can only clear a reduced number of tests. It isn't a case of unexpected demand.
I, and I think most governments, would do a root cause analysis, explain what was going wrong and let people know what we would do to fix it.
What I don't understand is why X is told to drive 200 miles to station B when station A in the same town has to send the samples to a lab anyway - so why not send the samples to a further lab?
Is it cos the commercial firms have divvied up the test stations and labs?
Deaths from heart attacks double during the pandemic. Hospital mortality due to myocardial infarction has doubled during the coronavirus pandemic, according to a registry of the Spanish Society of Cardiology (SEC) that has compared data from last April with those of 2019. According to this registry, in which 75 Spanish hospitals have participated, COVID-19 has had a "tremendous impact" on acute mortality from heart attack. "Specifically, hospital mortality from this cause has practically doubled during the pandemic compared to the previous period," explains the doctor. Oriol Rodríguez Leor, in charge of the study.
I am sure we are going to see the same here, ditto strokes, organ failure, cancer and no doubt many other conditions that would have been amenable to treatment if a doctor had seen them early enough.
I think the government probably gives no fucks about carrying over dynamic alignment on GIs as long as it's reciprocal and decisions on creating new GIs are standardised for both parties.
It's the regulatory, tax, environmental, competition and aid rules that are causing the issue. I could just about see the government signing up for environmental dynamic alignment given that our rules tend to be tougher than the EU's base minimum but the rest are next to impossible. If the EU insists on them we have to no deal, there isn't any other option.
The EU have actually been pretty reasonable on this. Their opening position was that we sign up to their rules, even as they change, with oversight by the ECJ. A tough stance, but not outrageously so for an opening position. Now they have accepted that other arrangements might be acceptable, for example on state aid, and they've asked the UK to submit its proposals for the state aid regime and how it would be enforced. That's fair enough, except that UK government - with just a few weeks to go before businesses will have to implement all the paperwork - still hasn't submitted anything precise. Instead it has gone down a massive blind-alley of threatening to break its own word. I'm struggling to think of anything more incompetent in modern history. They seem to be in total denial about their own stupid self-imposed deadline.
You're falling into the May trap. Barnier has made promises he won't be allowed to keep. The changes in the LPF demands must come directly from Berlin and Paris, not from Barnier.
The issue with their method is that they move from the 10/10 position to the current 9/10 position and asks the UK to propose something. In an alternate timeline we propose a regime that shifts us from 1/10 to 3/10, Barnier comes back and say "Paris didn't agree, we need more" so the system changes and we propose a 4/10 regime, Barnier goes back and forth and before we know it we're in the 8/10 alignment.
So, my 9 year old daughter has what appears to be a cold. Sniffles. Minor cough, sore throat. Kept her off school despite various other kids at her school / the school my wife works at having symptoms.
Have had a look on the website for a test. Got a "This Service is Very Busy" message. More tests may be available later apparently. "Do not call the helplines - you will not be able to get a test this way"
My friend who has been told she has been exposed to the pox has had the same message when she's looked multiple times a day. For the last 4 days.
World beating...
Clearly something is going wrong and the system can only clear a reduced number of tests. It isn't a case of unexpected demand.
I, and I think most governments, would do a root cause analysis, explain what was going wrong and let people know what we would do to fix it.
What I don't understand is why X is told to drive 200 miles to station B when station A in the same town has to send the samples to a lab anyway - so why not send the samples to a further lab?
Is it cos the commercial firms have divvied up the test stations and labs?
The system isn't even offering drive 200 miles. Just says its very busy please go away. And having told the school we were keeping her off they've just rung - wanting to know if its the rona. "No, she doesn't have the symptoms other than a sniffle and non-persistent cough, but think about the hassle for everyone if we'd sent her in" Fair enough was the response with "if she does develop more symptoms she needs to self-isolate for 14 days". Yes, I know...
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
The Tory critics will intensify if this happens. Clearly Cummings can't throw out Major, May, Howard, Cox, Hague and Lamont and Cameron.
Interesting times ahead, in the next few weeks.
I think he can and probably will.
But - hubris.
In a way that last year wasn't, that would surely be the end of the modern Conservative and Unionist Party.
I take the view that that party died some time ago and what we have in government is a UKIP/Brexit Party Government masquerading as a Conservative Government.
In a way it would be best for all these people to be expelled so that Boris’s party’s true colours can be seen for what they really are.
10,000 restaurants around the world participate in a discount campaign. More than 1,600 restaurants in Spain, some with Michelin stars, and 10,000 around the world participate in the "Let's Go Back to Restaurants" campaign, which includes 50 percent discounts to support and accelerate the recovery of the hospitality industry Powered by the reservation application ElTenedor will run from September 17 to November 17 in eighteen countries and has the support of the Michelin Guide with "Michelin Specials", which will offer exclusive menus in restaurants such as Cocina Hermanos Torres (Barcelona), El Portal del Echaurren (Ezcaray, La Rioja), Eme Be Garrote (San Sebastián), La Finca (Elche) or Les Cols (Olot, Girona).
What’s the point of closing pubs when work, transport, schools, universities, sporting competitions etc are open? That’s not going to stop the spread.
The point would be that these contributions to the spread are additive. The objective is to get R below 1. If R is (say) 1.5, and you can get a reduction of 0.3 from closing pubs, 0.3 from closing schools, 0.1 from closing sporting competitions, 0.1 from closing offices, 0.2 from restricting people meeting up at home, and 0.1 by imposing stricter rules on masks, then it would be perfectly reasonable for the government to decide that the least damaging way of getting R below 1 is to close pubs, restrict people meeting at home, and imposing stricter rules on masks. (All numbers are for illustration only).
I think the government probably gives no fucks about carrying over dynamic alignment on GIs as long as it's reciprocal and decisions on creating new GIs are standardised for both parties.
It's the regulatory, tax, environmental, competition and aid rules that are causing the issue. I could just about see the government signing up for environmental dynamic alignment given that our rules tend to be tougher than the EU's base minimum but the rest are next to impossible. If the EU insists on them we have to no deal, there isn't any other option.
The EU have actually been pretty reasonable on this. Their opening position was that we sign up to their rules, even as they change, with oversight by the ECJ. A tough stance, but not outrageously so for an opening position. Now they have accepted that other arrangements might be acceptable, for example on state aid, and they've asked the UK to submit its proposals for the state aid regime and how it would be enforced. That's fair enough, except that UK government - with just a few weeks to go before businesses will have to implement all the paperwork - still hasn't submitted anything precise. Instead it has gone down a massive blind-alley of threatening to break its own word. I'm struggling to think of anything more incompetent in modern history. They seem to be in total denial about their own stupid self-imposed deadline.
I agree with this but in fairness there is the small detail of a pandemic to deal with. One of the consequences of the pandemic has been government intervention in our economy on a scale that would have made Chancellor McDonnell blush and it is inevitable that this has consequences for rules on State Aid. The government doesn't want to make anything it is doing or likely to do illegal. That's tricky.
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
The Tory critics will intensify if this happens. Clearly Cummings can't throw out Major, May, Howard, Cox, Hague and Lamont and Cameron.
Interesting times ahead, in the next few weeks.
I think he can and probably will.
But - hubris.
In a way that last year wasn't, that would surely be the end of the modern Conservative and Unionist Party.
I take the view that that party died some time ago and what we have in government is a UKIP/Brexit Party Government masquerading as a Conservative Government.
In a way it would be best for all these people to be expelled so that Boris’s party’s true colours can be seen for what they really are.
I agree absolutely agree on that principle, but just in day-to-day, practical terms, I also think that the party wouldn't be able to take expulsions of most or all of this group. There'd be ministerial and sub-ministerial resignations, resignations of the whip, loss of mermbership, and complete cut-off amongst some Celtic Tories.
Somehow or other that means that Cummings/Boris, if they continue with this position, are going to have to deal with increasingly vocal criticism from an increasingly large and senior group.
I'm not quite sure what would "give" in that situation, as the Americans say.
So with Cameron now not supporting the amendment either that means every living former Tory leader bar IDS is opposed to the government on this (Howard and May and Major have made clear their opposition and Hague last week said the government should concede to the EU on state aid and get a deal)
Cameron is making the same point that I did a few days ago. The clause does not break the WA. It simply gives Ministers the power to break the agreement in the event that they think that is necessary. Of course, should such a scenario arise Parliament could pass the relevant legislation at that time. Why is it thought necessary to pass it now and leave it to Ministerial discretion rather than the discretion of Parliament? I really don't understand why we are having this wholly confected row now.
And why Remain supporting Brandon Lewis presented it in such an inflammatory way.
It's a cunning and devious plan by BL to push Johnson under a bus.
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
The Tory critics will intensify if this happens. Clearly Cummings can't throw out Major, May, Howard, Cox, Hague and Lamont and Cameron.
Interesting times ahead, in the next few weeks.
I think he can and probably will.
But - hubris.
In a way that last year wasn't, that would surely be the end of the modern Conservative and Unionist Party.
I take the view that that party died some time ago and what we have in government is a UKIP/Brexit Party Government masquerading as a Conservative Government.
In a way it would be best for all these people to be expelled so that Boris’s party’s true colours can be seen for what they really are.
If this were really a BXP / UKIP Government, its policies would be far, far to the right of where they are under Boris. We'd be sending migrants back from our borders by force, foreign aid would be zero, and there would be no public health regulations for coronavirus at all, just a straight push for herd immunity. It's pure tosh.
What’s the point of closing pubs when work, transport, schools, universities, sporting competitions etc are open? That’s not going to stop the spread.
The point would be that these contributions to the spread are additive. The objective is to get R below 1. If R is (say) 1.5, and you can get a reduction of 0.3 from closing pubs, 0.3 from closing schools, 0.1 from closing sporting competitions, 0.1 from closing offices, 0.2 from restricting people meeting up at home, and 0.1 by imposing stricter rules on masks, then it would be perfectly reasonable for the government to decide that the least damaging way of getting R below 1 is to close pubs, restrict people meeting at home, and imposing stricter rules on masks. (All numbers are for illustration only).
This has to be the approach. We had to get kids back to school, although they haven't done so as safely as they should have done (Masks!!!). We don't have to get people pointlessly travelling into offices to do jobs they have been doing successfully from home. We don't have to let shops relax every restriction bar masks. We don't have to pretend that "mingling" in groups of more than 6 only happens if 7 of you turn up to a busy restaurant.
We're going to have to do something. The case rate is rising exponentially again, and we know what happened last time Shagger prevaricated for a period before acting.
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
The Tory critics will intensify if this happens. Clearly Cummings can't throw out Major, May, Howard, Cox, Hague and Lamont and Cameron.
Interesting times ahead, in the next few weeks.
I think he can and probably will.
But - hubris.
In a way that last year wasn't, that would surely be the end of the modern Conservative and Unionist Party.
I take the view that that party died some time ago and what we have in government is a UKIP/Brexit Party Government masquerading as a Conservative Government.
In a way it would be best for all these people to be expelled so that Boris’s party’s true colours can be seen for what they really are.
If this were really a BXP / UKIP Government, its policies would be far, far to the right of where they are under Boris. We'd be sending migrants back from our borders by force, foreign aid would be zero, and there would be no public health regulations for coronavirus at all, just a straight push for herd immunity. It's pure tosh.
Won’t be long before that’s all government policy, the covid rules are as good as a free for all
I think the government probably gives no fucks about carrying over dynamic alignment on GIs as long as it's reciprocal and decisions on creating new GIs are standardised for both parties.
It's the regulatory, tax, environmental, competition and aid rules that are causing the issue. I could just about see the government signing up for environmental dynamic alignment given that our rules tend to be tougher than the EU's base minimum but the rest are next to impossible. If the EU insists on them we have to no deal, there isn't any other option.
The EU have actually been pretty reasonable on this. Their opening position was that we sign up to their rules, even as they change, with oversight by the ECJ. A tough stance, but not outrageously so for an opening position. Now they have accepted that other arrangements might be acceptable, for example on state aid, and they've asked the UK to submit its proposals for the state aid regime and how it would be enforced. That's fair enough, except that UK government - with just a few weeks to go before businesses will have to implement all the paperwork - still hasn't submitted anything precise. Instead it has gone down a massive blind-alley of threatening to break its own word. I'm struggling to think of anything more incompetent in modern history. They seem to be in total denial about their own stupid self-imposed deadline.
You're falling into the May trap. Barnier has made promises he won't be allowed to keep. The changes in the LPF demands must come directly from Berlin and Paris, not from Barnier.
The issue with their method is that they move from the 10/10 position to the current 9/10 position and asks the UK to propose something. In an alternate timeline we propose a regime that shifts us from 1/10 to 3/10, Barnier comes back and say "Paris didn't agree, we need more" so the system changes and we propose a 4/10 regime, Barnier goes back and forth and before we know it we're in the 8/10 alignment.
I'm not falling into any trap. We've left it too late to do anything else but accept their terms, since we now absolutely desperately need a de facto extension of the transition. We might once - had we started three years ago - have been able to countenance an orderly transition to WTO terms. But, given where we are now, we are simply nowhere near being able to handle crash-out in a few weeks' time. The customs officers don't exist, the customs agents don't exist, the rules they would have to enforce don't exist, NI is an absolute disaster waiting to happen, our food exporters and fishermen won't be able to sell to EU markets because no-one in government has bothered to put in the application for recognition of our food-standards regime (which doesn't even exist), etc etc etc .
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
Yes, I think I agree. In which case Starmer could be making a mistake if he opposes rather than abstaining?
No as he wants to force the government to rely on the DUP and expose Tory splits
Or possibly because he thinks what the government is proposing is wrong?
Deaths from heart attacks double during the pandemic. Hospital mortality due to myocardial infarction has doubled during the coronavirus pandemic, according to a registry of the Spanish Society of Cardiology (SEC) that has compared data from last April with those of 2019. According to this registry, in which 75 Spanish hospitals have participated, COVID-19 has had a "tremendous impact" on acute mortality from heart attack. "Specifically, hospital mortality from this cause has practically doubled during the pandemic compared to the previous period," explains the doctor. Oriol Rodríguez Leor, in charge of the study.
I am sure we are going to see the same here, ditto strokes, organ failure, cancer and no doubt many other conditions that would have been amenable to treatment if a doctor had seen them early enough.
The damage done to people with mental health issues, some of whom have killed themselves as a result (as I know only too well) is heartbreaking. Services to them have been withdrawn as inessential. Anyone who has suffered from such conditions or had a family member suffering from them knows how essential help is.
Nor should we forget that very many services for the severely disabled - including children - have been withdrawn, causing incalculable long-term and, in some cases, irreversible harm.
According to the BBC forty of Wetherspoons pubs have reported one worker testing positive for the coronavirus and six have disclosed two. Admittedly that's out of over 800. Also doesn't say if the 'workers' were customer facing, TBF.
10,000 restaurants around the world participate in a discount campaign. More than 1,600 restaurants in Spain, some with Michelin stars, and 10,000 around the world participate in the "Let's Go Back to Restaurants" campaign, which includes 50 percent discounts to support and accelerate the recovery of the hospitality industry Powered by the reservation application ElTenedor will run from September 17 to November 17 in eighteen countries and has the support of the Michelin Guide with "Michelin Specials", which will offer exclusive menus in restaurants such as Cocina Hermanos Torres (Barcelona), El Portal del Echaurren (Ezcaray, La Rioja), Eme Be Garrote (San Sebastián), La Finca (Elche) or Les Cols (Olot, Girona).
Oh, please don't remind me. When this is all over, I'm going on the mother of all Michelin-starred-seven-course-tasting-menu-with-paired-wine-flight benders, and no one can stop me...
What’s the point of closing pubs when work, transport, schools, universities, sporting competitions etc are open? That’s not going to stop the spread.
The point would be that these contributions to the spread are additive. The objective is to get R below 1. If R is (say) 1.5, and you can get a reduction of 0.3 from closing pubs, 0.3 from closing schools, 0.1 from closing sporting competitions, 0.1 from closing offices, 0.2 from restricting people meeting up at home, and 0.1 by imposing stricter rules on masks, then it would be perfectly reasonable for the government to decide that the least damaging way of getting R below 1 is to close pubs, restrict people meeting at home, and imposing stricter rules on masks. (All numbers are for illustration only).
I get that. But that’s effectively another lockdown. Picking on one sector only is hugely unfair, especially if there is to be no support provided.
What’s the point of closing pubs when work, transport, schools, universities, sporting competitions etc are open? That’s not going to stop the spread.
The point would be that these contributions to the spread are additive. The objective is to get R below 1. If R is (say) 1.5, and you can get a reduction of 0.3 from closing pubs, 0.3 from closing schools, 0.1 from closing sporting competitions, 0.1 from closing offices, 0.2 from restricting people meeting up at home, and 0.1 by imposing stricter rules on masks, then it would be perfectly reasonable for the government to decide that the least damaging way of getting R below 1 is to close pubs, restrict people meeting at home, and imposing stricter rules on masks. (All numbers are for illustration only).
I get that. But that’s effectively another lockdown. Picking on one sector only is hugely unfair, especially if there is to be no support provided.
I agree, if we have another lockdown then support will be needed. Hopefully we can limit the spread without that.
What RP doesn't seem to acknowledge is that we aren't trying to have an R of 0 (which is essentially impossible) but just to limit it. If actions like masks and "the rule of six" can limit R effectively at or close to 1 wthout another lockdown then it will have done its job - even if there are inconsistencies in how we act.
Its not about trying to be consistent, its trying to fudge something that works without a lockdown (which is more easily consistent but is devastating).
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
The Tory critics will intensify if this happens. Clearly Cummings can't throw out Major, May, Howard, Cox, Hague and Lamont and Cameron.
Interesting times ahead, in the next few weeks.
I think he can and probably will.
But - hubris.
In a way that last year wasn't, that would surely be the end of the modern Conservative and Unionist Party.
I take the view that that party died some time ago and what we have in government is a UKIP/Brexit Party Government masquerading as a Conservative Government.
In a way it would be best for all these people to be expelled so that Boris’s party’s true colours can be seen for what they really are.
If this were really a BXP / UKIP Government, its policies would be far, far to the right of where they are under Boris. We'd be sending migrants back from our borders by force, foreign aid would be zero, and there would be no public health regulations for coronavirus at all, just a straight push for herd immunity. It's pure tosh.
The reason migrants can’t be sent back, whether by force or otherwise, is because the government cannot force other countries to accept people. Deportations only happen when the receiving country agrees to receive them. If they don’t you can’t deport no matter how many laws you tear up or lawyers you bar from acting.
If a boat is in British territorial waters or lands on a British shore, what are you going to do: shoot them? Drown them? Tow them to France? And what happens if the French close their ports to us?
According to the BBC forty of Wetherspoons pubs have reported one worker testing positive for the coronavirus and six have disclosed two. Admittedly that's out of over 800. Also doesn't say if the 'workers' were customer facing, TBF.
I think it is quite misleading story. 41,000 workers and we have no idea where they caught it.
We could do the same headline for football club (actually it is more cases), with the insinuation they weren't covid safe, when it is pretty clear they were infected on holiday.
I think the government probably gives no fucks about carrying over dynamic alignment on GIs as long as it's reciprocal and decisions on creating new GIs are standardised for both parties.
It's the regulatory, tax, environmental, competition and aid rules that are causing the issue. I could just about see the government signing up for environmental dynamic alignment given that our rules tend to be tougher than the EU's base minimum but the rest are next to impossible. If the EU insists on them we have to no deal, there isn't any other option.
The EU have actually been pretty reasonable on this. Their opening position was that we sign up to their rules, even as they change, with oversight by the ECJ. A tough stance, but not outrageously so for an opening position. Now they have accepted that other arrangements might be acceptable, for example on state aid, and they've asked the UK to submit its proposals for the state aid regime and how it would be enforced. That's fair enough, except that UK government - with just a few weeks to go before businesses will have to implement all the paperwork - still hasn't submitted anything precise. Instead it has gone down a massive blind-alley of threatening to break its own word. I'm struggling to think of anything more incompetent in modern history. They seem to be in total denial about their own stupid self-imposed deadline.
You're falling into the May trap. Barnier has made promises he won't be allowed to keep. The changes in the LPF demands must come directly from Berlin and Paris, not from Barnier.
The issue with their method is that they move from the 10/10 position to the current 9/10 position and asks the UK to propose something. In an alternate timeline we propose a regime that shifts us from 1/10 to 3/10, Barnier comes back and say "Paris didn't agree, we need more" so the system changes and we propose a 4/10 regime, Barnier goes back and forth and before we know it we're in the 8/10 alignment.
I'm not falling into any trap. We've left it too late to do anything else but accept their terms, since we now absolutely desperately need a de facto extension of the transition. We might once - had we started three years ago - have been able to countenance an orderly transition to WTO terms. But, given where we are now, we are simply nowhere near being able to handle crash-out in a few weeks' time. The customs officers don't exist, the customs agents don't exist, the rules they would have to enforce don't exist, NI is an absolute disaster waiting to happen, our food exporters and fishermen won't be able to sell to EU markets because no-one in government has bothered to put in the application for recognition of our food-standards regime (which doesn't even exist), etc etc etc .
But apparently thats all the fault of the bullying EU...
According to the BBC forty of Wetherspoons pubs have reported one worker testing positive for the coronavirus and six have disclosed two. Admittedly that's out of over 800. Also doesn't say if the 'workers' were customer facing, TBF.
To put that in perspective, 0.13% of the UK populace were tested positive over that time period, compared to 0.15% of Weatherspoons staff.
According to the BBC forty of Wetherspoons pubs have reported one worker testing positive for the coronavirus and six have disclosed two. Admittedly that's out of over 800. Also doesn't say if the 'workers' were customer facing, TBF.
I think it is quite misleading story. 41,000 workers and we have no idea where they caught it.
We could do the same headline for football club (actually it is more cases), with the insinuation they weren't covid safe, when it is pretty clear they were infected on holiday.
Yeah, the incidence rate is virtually identical to the UK as a whole.
The focus of this is all wrong. The communications of this should be all about not the spreading it, not killing granny, think about others (like with masks). Not this East German report rule breakers to the secret police.
I think the government probably gives no fucks about carrying over dynamic alignment on GIs as long as it's reciprocal and decisions on creating new GIs are standardised for both parties.
It's the regulatory, tax, environmental, competition and aid rules that are causing the issue. I could just about see the government signing up for environmental dynamic alignment given that our rules tend to be tougher than the EU's base minimum but the rest are next to impossible. If the EU insists on them we have to no deal, there isn't any other option.
The EU have actually been pretty reasonable on this. Their opening position was that we sign up to their rules, even as they change, with oversight by the ECJ. A tough stance, but not outrageously so for an opening position. Now they have accepted that other arrangements might be acceptable, for example on state aid, and they've asked the UK to submit its proposals for the state aid regime and how it would be enforced. That's fair enough, except that UK government - with just a few weeks to go before businesses will have to implement all the paperwork - still hasn't submitted anything precise. Instead it has gone down a massive blind-alley of threatening to break its own word. I'm struggling to think of anything more incompetent in modern history. They seem to be in total denial about their own stupid self-imposed deadline.
I agree with this but in fairness there is the small detail of a pandemic to deal with. One of the consequences of the pandemic has been government intervention in our economy on a scale that would have made Chancellor McDonnell blush and it is inevitable that this has consequences for rules on State Aid. The government doesn't want to make anything it is doing or likely to do illegal. That's tricky.
There is also a pandemic going on iacross the EU and governments there are also taking extraordinary actions that impact on state aid rules, many of which are far more extreme than those taken in the UK and all of which are being signed off by the Commission without a second thought.
Well that guarantees the DUP will vote with the government then, even if Tory rebels vote with the SDLP
I too think the DUP will too vote with the Gov't on this (Regardless of the SDLP's move), which brings the starting majority effectively being 96. Can't see why any other parties would.
They won't, however as I said last night it would be amusing if 50 Tory MPs rebelled and the government only won the vote tonight thanks to DUP votes
HYUFD: what is your prediction? Which way will the vote go?
The government will win thanks to the DUP
The Tory critics will intensify if this happens. Clearly Cummings can't throw out Major, May, Howard, Cox, Hague and Lamont and Cameron.
Interesting times ahead, in the next few weeks.
I think he can and probably will.
But - hubris.
In a way that last year wasn't, that would surely be the end of the modern Conservative and Unionist Party.
I take the view that that party died some time ago and what we have in government is a UKIP/Brexit Party Government masquerading as a Conservative Government.
In a way it would be best for all these people to be expelled so that Boris’s party’s true colours can be seen for what they really are.
If this were really a BXP / UKIP Government, its policies would be far, far to the right of where they are under Boris. We'd be sending migrants back from our borders by force, foreign aid would be zero, and there would be no public health regulations for coronavirus at all, just a straight push for herd immunity. It's pure tosh.
The reason migrants can’t be sent back, whether by force or otherwise, is because the government cannot force other countries to accept people. Deportations only happen when the receiving country agrees to receive them. If they don’t you can’t deport no matter how many laws you tear up or lawyers you bar from acting.
If a boat is in British territorial waters or lands on a British shore, what are you going to do: shoot them? Drown them? Tow them to France? And what happens if the French close their ports to us?
Though of course many countries are willing to have people deported to them but the courts say no even if they've been here for decades - but without actually giving them the right to remain which is a nonsense in my opinion.
It should be possible to come to a decision that someone can either remain or not remain, leaving them in a limbo where they're not legally allowed to remain so can't work or start a proper life, but can't be deported either, is about as close to torturing someone as we can get in the 21st century and is inhumane.
Regarding the boat migrants I maintain that we should do what the Australians did (in contravention to international law): set up a processing camp in a third world country. Agree with them the right for us to bring anyone who illegally enters there and if someone is found to be legitimate and granted leave to remain then they can be flown back to the UK and can start their life with us and if not they can stay there until they go home.
According to the BBC forty of Wetherspoons pubs have reported one worker testing positive for the coronavirus and six have disclosed two. Admittedly that's out of over 800. Also doesn't say if the 'workers' were customer facing, TBF.
To put that in perspective, 0.13% of the UK populace were tested positive over that time period, compared to 0.15% of Weatherspoons staff.
Careful don't confuse the media with any of this maths nonsense....
The reason migrants can’t be sent back, whether by force or otherwise, is because the government cannot force other countries to accept people. Deportations only happen when the receiving country agrees to receive them. If they don’t you can’t deport no matter how many laws you tear up or lawyers you bar from acting.
If a boat is in British territorial waters or lands on a British shore, what are you going to do: shoot them? Drown them? Tow them to France? And what happens if the French close their ports to us?
You stick them in partially fuelled lifeboats and tow them to a spot that's outside French territorial waters but in international waters. They only have enough fuel to get to France not the UK.
It could 100% be done if the will were there. I am very surprised Johnson and Patel aren't copping more shit over the channel situation.
According to the BBC forty of Wetherspoons pubs have reported one worker testing positive for the coronavirus and six have disclosed two. Admittedly that's out of over 800. Also doesn't say if the 'workers' were customer facing, TBF.
To put that in perspective, 0.13% of the UK populace were tested positive over that time period, compared to 0.15% of Weatherspoons staff.
I actually find it quite remarkable, from the story, that in 40 pubs 1 staff member caught the virus (who could have got it from outside the pub) but just the 1. I would have thought it would be relatively common in a workplace that once one has caught it, it risks getting spread around much more than that - so it sounds like the measures being taken to prevent spread are working.
According to the BBC forty of Wetherspoons pubs have reported one worker testing positive for the coronavirus and six have disclosed two. Admittedly that's out of over 800. Also doesn't say if the 'workers' were customer facing, TBF.
To put that in perspective, 0.13% of the UK populace were tested positive over that time period, compared to 0.15% of Weatherspoons staff.
Careful don't confuse the media with any of this maths nonsense....
It is true, I used that incredibly complex technique of taking one number and dividing it by another.
The reason migrants can’t be sent back, whether by force or otherwise, is because the government cannot force other countries to accept people. Deportations only happen when the receiving country agrees to receive them. If they don’t you can’t deport no matter how many laws you tear up or lawyers you bar from acting.
If a boat is in British territorial waters or lands on a British shore, what are you going to do: shoot them? Drown them? Tow them to France? And what happens if the French close their ports to us?
You stick them in partially fuelled lifeboats and tow them to a spot that's outside French territorial waters but in international waters. They only have enough fuel to get to France not the UK.
It could 100% be done if the will were there. I am very surprised Johnson and Patel aren't copping more shit over the channel situation.
This may be an ignorant question but are there any international waters that can reach France but not the UK? I wouldn't have thought there were.
..and yet wants to plough billions into speculative tech ventures. In one sense Cummings and Johnson's have inherited an authentic modern Tory continuity here, which is an almost pathological inability to understand the importance of already established national-strategic industries , since the early 1980's and in the way every other major western country does and has protected ; and even as Cummings fantasises about the future, and creating a new Google.
The reason migrants can’t be sent back, whether by force or otherwise, is because the government cannot force other countries to accept people. Deportations only happen when the receiving country agrees to receive them. If they don’t you can’t deport no matter how many laws you tear up or lawyers you bar from acting.
If a boat is in British territorial waters or lands on a British shore, what are you going to do: shoot them? Drown them? Tow them to France? And what happens if the French close their ports to us?
You stick them in partially fuelled lifeboats and tow them to a spot that's outside French territorial waters but in international waters. They only have enough fuel to get to France not the UK.
It could 100% be done if the will were there. I am very surprised Johnson and Patel aren't copping more shit over the channel situation.
You propose leaving women and children in lifeboats in the Atlantic or in the Channel, one of the busiest sea lanes in the world, and hope they will be ok and not drown. Wow!
The reason migrants can’t be sent back, whether by force or otherwise, is because the government cannot force other countries to accept people. Deportations only happen when the receiving country agrees to receive them. If they don’t you can’t deport no matter how many laws you tear up or lawyers you bar from acting.
If a boat is in British territorial waters or lands on a British shore, what are you going to do: shoot them? Drown them? Tow them to France? And what happens if the French close their ports to us?
You stick them in partially fuelled lifeboats and tow them to a spot that's outside French territorial waters but in international waters. They only have enough fuel to get to France not the UK.
It could 100% be done if the will were there. I am very surprised Johnson and Patel aren't copping more shit over the channel situation.
You propose leaving women and children in lifeboats in the Atlantic or in the Channel, one of the busiest sea lanes in the world, and hope they will be ok and not drown. Wow!
I don't agree with his idea but to be fair they're putting themselves into that sea lane.
We should be doing whatever it takes to stop that for welfare reasons alone, it is a terrible thing people are doing and seriously jeopardising their safety.
..and yet wants to plough billions into speculative tech ventures. In one sense Cummings and Johnson's have inherited a Tory continuity here, which is an almost pathological inability to understand the importance of already established national-strategic industries since the early 1980's, in the way every major western country does and has protected, and even as Cummings fantasises about creating a new Google.
I don’t really believe this guff about wanting state subsidies to create a tech sector. I think there is another agenda but we have yet to find out what it is. “Tech” feels to me like a cover story, used because it is modern and futuristic. But I think we’re being played.
The reason migrants can’t be sent back, whether by force or otherwise, is because the government cannot force other countries to accept people. Deportations only happen when the receiving country agrees to receive them. If they don’t you can’t deport no matter how many laws you tear up or lawyers you bar from acting.
If a boat is in British territorial waters or lands on a British shore, what are you going to do: shoot them? Drown them? Tow them to France? And what happens if the French close their ports to us?
You stick them in partially fuelled lifeboats and tow them to a spot that's outside French territorial waters but in international waters. They only have enough fuel to get to France not the UK.
It could 100% be done if the will were there. I am very surprised Johnson and Patel aren't copping more shit over the channel situation.
You propose leaving women and children in lifeboats in the Atlantic or in the Channel, one of the busiest sea lanes in the world, and hope they will be ok and not drown. Wow!
Is @Dura_Ace actually proposing that, rather than expressing surprise that Patel et al aren't doing it ?
The reason migrants can’t be sent back, whether by force or otherwise, is because the government cannot force other countries to accept people. Deportations only happen when the receiving country agrees to receive them. If they don’t you can’t deport no matter how many laws you tear up or lawyers you bar from acting.
If a boat is in British territorial waters or lands on a British shore, what are you going to do: shoot them? Drown them? Tow them to France? And what happens if the French close their ports to us?
You stick them in partially fuelled lifeboats and tow them to a spot that's outside French territorial waters but in international waters. They only have enough fuel to get to France not the UK.
It could 100% be done if the will were there. I am very surprised Johnson and Patel aren't copping more shit over the channel situation.
This may be an ignorant question but are there any international waters that can reach France but not the UK? I wouldn't have thought there were.
Am I right in thinking the rule of 6 doesn't apply to gyms? Putting ~20 people in a small spin studio with air con, while they all sweat buckets and breath heavily, ticks so many boxes for transmission.
The reason migrants can’t be sent back, whether by force or otherwise, is because the government cannot force other countries to accept people. Deportations only happen when the receiving country agrees to receive them. If they don’t you can’t deport no matter how many laws you tear up or lawyers you bar from acting.
If a boat is in British territorial waters or lands on a British shore, what are you going to do: shoot them? Drown them? Tow them to France? And what happens if the French close their ports to us?
You stick them in partially fuelled lifeboats and tow them to a spot that's outside French territorial waters but in international waters. They only have enough fuel to get to France not the UK.
It could 100% be done if the will were there. I am very surprised Johnson and Patel aren't copping more shit over the channel situation.
You propose leaving women and children in lifeboats in the Atlantic or in the Channel, one of the busiest sea lanes in the world, and hope they will be ok and not drown. Wow!
Is @Dura_Ace actually proposing that, rather than expressing surprise that Patel et al aren't doing it ?
Or channelling Swift's Modest Proposal. But easily misinterpreted ...
The reason migrants can’t be sent back, whether by force or otherwise, is because the government cannot force other countries to accept people. Deportations only happen when the receiving country agrees to receive them. If they don’t you can’t deport no matter how many laws you tear up or lawyers you bar from acting.
If a boat is in British territorial waters or lands on a British shore, what are you going to do: shoot them? Drown them? Tow them to France? And what happens if the French close their ports to us?
You stick them in partially fuelled lifeboats and tow them to a spot that's outside French territorial waters but in international waters. They only have enough fuel to get to France not the UK.
It could 100% be done if the will were there. I am very surprised Johnson and Patel aren't copping more shit over the channel situation.
You propose leaving women and children in lifeboats in the Atlantic or in the Channel, one of the busiest sea lanes in the world, and hope they will be ok and not drown. Wow!
I don't agree with his idea but to be fair they're putting themselves into that sea lane.
We should be doing whatever it takes to stop that for welfare reasons alone, it is a terrible thing people are doing and seriously jeopardising their safety.
I would allow asylum seekers to work and contribute if only to avoid them being sucked into the black economy and being exploited by the people traffickers, who are thoroughly evil people. We are permitting / turning a blind eye to appalling exploitation and 21st century slavery. I also rather like what @rcs1000 has described as the Swiss approach.
..and yet wants to plough billions into speculative tech ventures. In one sense Cummings and Johnson's have inherited a Tory continuity here, which is an almost pathological inability to understand the importance of already established national-strategic industries since the early 1980's, in the way every major western country does and has protected, and even as Cummings fantasises about creating a new Google.
I don’t really believe this guff about wanting state subsidies to create a tech sector. I think there is another agenda but we have yet to find out what it is. “Tech” feels to me like a cover story, used because it is modern and futuristic. But I think we’re being played.
Have you become a Conspiracy Theorist now?
I would not blame you, I do not think that you are wrong either. One feature of this administration that appears to be reliable is its penchant for lying and dissembling.
Sometimes I think we over-complicate things. In line with its dominant philosophy, this government has to decide who to blame for the severe troubles that undoubtedly lie ahead over the next six months (and longer). There are three main possibilities: a) Covid, b) the EU, c) remainers/the Labour Party. The last of these is largely withdrawing from the battle, for now, so that leaves a) and b). Covid is a bit unpredictable, so we need to make sure that we can blame the EU as well - so let's use our messaging to convince folk that the EU is a mendacious, scheming foreign power. Fairly easy to do, as many voters already think this, and the Telegraph, Mail and Express are very obliging.
Oh, and for good measure those liberal lefties at the BBC can be put in the frame as well. We'll find more targets as and when we need them.
The government is world-beating in all respects; Covid and the EU are to blame for our woes.
Good post, and it explains why Boris doesn't really need to close the thing down; It doesn't matter whether it gets blocked by liberal remainiac MPs (you and I knows some of the MPs are very brexitty, but the papers aren't going to tell the voters that, and Labour will have to vote against too) or the Lords (elites!) or the EU litigation (foreign courts!) there will be someone to blame for everything that isn't going to work, and a lot of things aren't going to work.
Comments
If you want to use this as a tool in the negotiations then now is the time it needs to be done. Keep waiting and it will be too late.
Then there is the definition of a “support group” in the new regulation 5A.
And you also have to read these new regulations together with the old ones to understand exactly what is or is not permitted. The new ones do not stand alone. There is the arse-aching exercise of going through inserting and deleting all the different provisions to get to a definitive version of what is or is not a criminal offence since this morning.
It is a scandalous way of making a new law quite apart from the utter failure to involve Parliament at all.
Have had a look on the website for a test. Got a "This Service is Very Busy" message. More tests may be available later apparently. "Do not call the helplines - you will not be able to get a test this way"
My friend who has been told she has been exposed to the pox has had the same message when she's looked multiple times a day. For the last 4 days.
World beating...
There is nothing to stop one party going to the other to inform them that they intend to revoke the treaty, hopefully with that party's agreement. Equally if you don't meet your treaty obligations it's up to the other side to do something about it.
And the Irish were not that neutral in WW2. Certainly not at a services level. That's a particularly nasty canard of yours [edit], especially as their neutrality kept the Germans out and saved the Allies a potentially very difficult war of occupation.
As for dynamic alignment, there will certainly have to be some. For example, there is no chance of an EU deal which doesn't include recognition of future protected geographical indications. The irony is that with the UK government deliberately committing us to an unrealisable timescale, making painfully little progress in preparing for either a deal or for no deal, and deliberately destroying trust, our already weak negotiating position is just getting worse and worse. The way this is going, we're going to have to accept any terms we can get. The only question is whether it is Boris that does the humiliating cave-in in the next few weeks, or someone more grown-up picking up the pieces after the administrative and political chaos has kicked in.
He could have presented Suella Braverman's justification. If it's authoritative enough for the Attorney General, it's good enough for parliament.
Folk who don't follow the news closely will be vaguely aware of our world beating system. And that the virus is "back".
Millions have kids or grandkids at school. Most of them will have summat or other ailment by now.
Few will get a prompt, convenient test.
Many not at all.
The UK and Japan combined alone have more than 50% of EU GDP so no the difference is not as vast as you make out.
It's the regulatory, tax, environmental, competition and aid rules that are causing the issue. I could just about see the government signing up for environmental dynamic alignment given that our rules tend to be tougher than the EU's base minimum but the rest are next to impossible. If the EU insists on them we have to no deal, there isn't any other option.
Either the answer is
1) Nothing
2) Close the pubs
3) Some fudge which tries to limit risk, but opens up all the 'ah but what about X, or what about Y, or what about Z' questions.
Another question then. Why is the age of consent 16 years? Why not 16 years and one day, or 15 years and 364 days?
Why not 17 or 18, or 15 or 13?
Answer, because there has to be an number.
I, and I think most governments, would do a root cause analysis, explain what was going wrong and let people know what we would do to fix it.
Apparently data privacy is another thing to be abolished by Dom so that his friends can get their hands on the loot to be made by selling it.
Interesting times ahead in the next few weeks.
And of course trade is distorted because we've had free trade with Europe for decades whereas trade with Japan has been restricted until now. If the regulatory barriers were to reverse then you would inevitably expect some correction, it cuts both ways - even if Europe would inevitably be more significant still it isn't the end of the world if we can't reach a deal.
Instead we have this utter nonsense. Kids can spend all day crushed into a classroom that doesn't have enough space to fit them in the mandated rows. But if they play football in the park after school its against the law. I can spend the day in the office with colleagues. But if we go down the pub afterwards its illegal. Can have 30 in a church for a funeral. If they go to a wake afterwards its illegal.
https://twitter.com/awstojanovic/status/1305427738862510082?s=20
The WA is very far from being Boris' principal achievement - sending socialism back to its crypt for a generation is his principal achievement so far, and he's been PM for just over a year. Plenty more to come, I'm sure.
But - hubris.
The equiperation between domestic criminal law and international "law" is deeply flawed but that does not mean this is anything other than stupid and damaging to our long term interests.
Oh, and for good measure those liberal lefties at the BBC can be put in the frame as well. We'll find more targets as and when we need them.
The government is world-beating in all respects; Covid and the EU are to blame for our woes.
Is it cos the commercial firms have divvied up the test stations and labs?
The issue with their method is that they move from the 10/10 position to the current 9/10 position and asks the UK to propose something. In an alternate timeline we propose a regime that shifts us from 1/10 to 3/10, Barnier comes back and say "Paris didn't agree, we need more" so the system changes and we propose a 4/10 regime, Barnier goes back and forth and before we know it we're in the 8/10 alignment.
In a way it would be best for all these people to be expelled so that Boris’s party’s true colours can be seen for what they really are.
Somehow or other that means that Cummings/Boris, if they continue with this position, are going to have to deal with increasingly vocal criticism from an increasingly large and senior group.
I'm not quite sure what would "give" in that situation, as the Americans say.
We're going to have to do something. The case rate is rising exponentially again, and we know what happened last time Shagger prevaricated for a period before acting.
See this - https://www.ocduk.org/calls-for-reopening-of-specialist-ocd-clinic/
Nor should we forget that very many services for the severely disabled - including children - have been withdrawn, causing incalculable long-term and, in some cases, irreversible harm.
See this - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days/2020-09-13/news/parents-of-disabled-children-pray-for-the-end-of-each-day-during-lockdown-g3mbvt882 - for instance.
Admittedly that's out of over 800.
Also doesn't say if the 'workers' were customer facing, TBF.
What RP doesn't seem to acknowledge is that we aren't trying to have an R of 0 (which is essentially impossible) but just to limit it. If actions like masks and "the rule of six" can limit R effectively at or close to 1 wthout another lockdown then it will have done its job - even if there are inconsistencies in how we act.
Its not about trying to be consistent, its trying to fudge something that works without a lockdown (which is more easily consistent but is devastating).
If a boat is in British territorial waters or lands on a British shore, what are you going to do: shoot them? Drown them? Tow them to France? And what happens if the French close their ports to us?
We could do the same headline for football club (actually it is more cases), with the insinuation they weren't covid safe, when it is pretty clear they were infected on holiday.
It should be possible to come to a decision that someone can either remain or not remain, leaving them in a limbo where they're not legally allowed to remain so can't work or start a proper life, but can't be deported either, is about as close to torturing someone as we can get in the 21st century and is inhumane.
Regarding the boat migrants I maintain that we should do what the Australians did (in contravention to international law): set up a processing camp in a third world country. Agree with them the right for us to bring anyone who illegally enters there and if someone is found to be legitimate and granted leave to remain then they can be flown back to the UK and can start their life with us and if not they can stay there until they go home.
It could 100% be done if the will were there. I am very surprised Johnson and Patel aren't copping more shit over the channel situation.
BBC News - ARM: UK-based chip designer sold to US firm Nvidia
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54142567
Bye bye ARM.
We should be doing whatever it takes to stop that for welfare reasons alone, it is a terrible thing people are doing and seriously jeopardising their safety.
https://www.lbresearch.com/our-products/
I would not blame you, I do not think that you are wrong either. One feature of this administration that appears to be reliable is its penchant for lying and dissembling.