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  • MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.

    You can say well that's a terrible policy / law. IMO so is the second amendment.

    The underlying problem in the US is civilians are armed, so criminals are definitely armed, so the police need to be armed and have to presume they will face criminals who are armed and willing to fire on them.
    So how about surrounding the property and knocking on the door? Is a start.

    Or how about only shooting if they can see who is shooting at them and not shooting into the dark and killing an unarmed person?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    No. But Truss will be sacked at next reshuffle.
    Rumoured she will take over from Williamson at education
    Paging Ydoethur.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,106
    edited September 2020
    eek said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.
    The law allowed them to - it doesn't anymore and it still doesn't excuse anyone from shooting indiscriminately into a room when no shot has been fired from it.
    My point is you can say the officers acted poorly and irresponsibly and this was a terrible policy, but you can't go advocating arresting people who haven't broken the law.

    That's China, just arrest people we don't like and think of something to charge the with and failing they just send them to a camp.
  • LadyG said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    Something a bit more authentically Scottish.

    'It's shite being Scottish, but even more shite being British in BJ's UK'

    https://youtu.be/29-LRuuqFT0

    "can't even find a decent culture to be colonised by"

    Ahem. Scotland was conquered and colonised by the English who also, by the by, created the modern world via the industrial revolution, saved the world during the Second World War, abolished slavery in their spare time, and created the greatest empire the world has ever seen, thereby making English the international language, allowing Scots to be (vaguely) understood all over the globe.

    if Scotland hadn't been beaten up and enslaved by England, Scots would still be gargling in their weird little Gaelic tongue, and would also be eating lichen.

    Irvine Welsh is simply and factually incorrect here. If you are going to be conquered and colonised, you may as well be conquered and colonised by the best: the English.

    It very neatly encapsulates the visceral Scottish inferiority complex vis-a-vis the English.
    Honestly I am utterly baffled by the narrative that Scotland was colonised by England; if anything, it was the other way around, with Scotland hijacking English wealth to support a colonial empire which wasn't otherwise affordable. There's a reason why Scottish merchants, industrialists, philosophers, engineers and politicians punched well above their weight (and continue to do so) in the UK as a whole.

    As an English person I think this is probably a good thing, Scotland has given the world a great deal and is a fantastic country, but I find it utterly bizarre that Scottish nationalists don't embrace this proven track record of success and instead insist that Scotland is a incapable, unfortunate victim of history.
    James Bond was of Scottish/Swiss ancestry. If that doesn't prove something or other I don't know what does.

    OTOH the indisputably top rank Britons - Darwin, Newton, Shakespeare, Wren, Turner all, I'm afraid, English.

    Hume and Maxwell beg to differ. Also, Adam Smith.
    Graham Bell, Burns, Stevenson, Watt, (Walter) Scott...

    Of the 24 UK PMs since 1900, 7 were Scottish (Brown, Blair, Macmillan, MacDonald, Bonar-Law, Campbell-Bannerman, and Balfour). 29% of PMs is exceptional given Scotland makes up around 8% of the UK population.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Glad to see that people outside a few bullish city banks are noticing as well now:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/13/uks-v-shaped-recovery-now-world-leader/

    It basically sets out the same things I've been saying on here for about a month, the UK is going to have a world beating recovery but some of that will be a quirk of statistics due to the timing and the way the ONS records GDP vs how it is done in the rest of the world.

    I expect in the next round of forecast updates in October the consensus is going to be -6% for the UK for the year which is still pretty terrible (mirroring 2007/8) but nothing like the -14% that was doing the rounds earlier in the year.

    I'll do a more detailed post on it on Tuesday when I'm back from Naples but as I said before the weekend, I think we're looking at 96% of prior GDP being the cap on what is recoverable, everything from then on will have to be organic. That's about an 900k job losses by my back of the fag pack calculation.
  • Good for him.

    Maybe enough conservatives will do the right thing and see the bill fail
  • MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that people outside a few bullish city banks are noticing as well now:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/13/uks-v-shaped-recovery-now-world-leader/

    It basically sets out the same things I've been saying on here for about a month, the UK is going to have a world beating recovery but some of that will be a quirk of statistics due to the timing and the way the ONS records GDP vs how it is done in the rest of the world.

    I expect in the next round of forecast updates in October the consensus is going to be -6% for the UK for the year which is still pretty terrible (mirroring 2007/8) but nothing like the -14% that was doing the rounds earlier in the year.

    I'll do a more detailed post on it on Tuesday when I'm back from Naples but as I said before the weekend, I think we're looking at 96% of prior GDP being the cap on what is recoverable, everything from then on will have to be organic. That's about an 900k job losses by my back of the fag pack calculation.

    Can I see your predictions compared to the reality now please? You promised a day or two ago
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    Are you happy with the proposed EU state aid rules now then? Japan has enforced stronger ones in our agreement with them
    Not true. You should try reading the details and not getting your news from Twitter headlines.

    From Page 4 of this thread at 7:45pm

    Because that's an agreed deal and not a negotiating position. Penultimate paragraph is the relevant one.

    James Webber, a partner at the law firm Shearman & Sterling, said: “It’s a concession of sorts by the UK, but if this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s.”
    The EU negotiations are negotiations, this is a signed deal - and this agreement is very close to what we're asking for. If we "compromise" from what we're asking for to this then as the lawyer quoted says it will be "much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    No. But Truss will be sacked at next reshuffle.
    Rumoured she will take over from Williamson at education
    Now she's sorted International Trade why not?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that people outside a few bullish city banks are noticing as well now:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/13/uks-v-shaped-recovery-now-world-leader/

    It basically sets out the same things I've been saying on here for about a month, the UK is going to have a world beating recovery but some of that will be a quirk of statistics due to the timing and the way the ONS records GDP vs how it is done in the rest of the world.

    I expect in the next round of forecast updates in October the consensus is going to be -6% for the UK for the year which is still pretty terrible (mirroring 2007/8) but nothing like the -14% that was doing the rounds earlier in the year.

    I'll do a more detailed post on it on Tuesday when I'm back from Naples but as I said before the weekend, I think we're looking at 96% of prior GDP being the cap on what is recoverable, everything from then on will have to be organic. That's about an 900k job losses by my back of the fag pack calculation.

    Can I see your predictions compared to the reality now please? You promised a day or two ago
    I don't have access until Tuesday, but sure can include them and the updated ones.
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    Are you happy with the proposed EU state aid rules now then? Japan has enforced stronger ones in our agreement with them
    Not true. You should try reading the details and not getting your news from Twitter headlines.

    From Page 4 of this thread at 7:45pm

    Because that's an agreed deal and not a negotiating position. Penultimate paragraph is the relevant one.

    James Webber, a partner at the law firm Shearman & Sterling, said: “It’s a concession of sorts by the UK, but if this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s.”
    The EU negotiations are negotiations, this is a signed deal - and this agreement is very close to what we're asking for. If we "compromise" from what we're asking for to this then as the lawyer quoted says it will be "much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
    The UK capitulated as your Tweet says, like Johnson did last time and like he will do this time with the EU if he wants a deal. Japan has walked over us.
  • MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    A no knock warrant. It's the world's most stupid idea, but they didn't invent it I guess.
    We can question the law, but as far as I can tell the police acted as they should and came under fire. What are they supposed to do?

    This is highly irresponsible from Hamilton.
    How about not burst through the door with guns out, without knocking or identifying themselves as a start?

    A woman is dead and nobody has been charged for it, it isn't Hamilton that is irresponsible.
    You can't go advocating arresting people who haven't broken the law. Thats the way the rule of law works.
    What law says it is OK to shoot dead an unarmed woman who was in her bed and who wasn't shooting at them?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,106
    edited September 2020

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.

    You can say well that's a terrible policy / law. IMO so is the second amendment.

    The underlying problem in the US is civilians are armed, so criminals are definitely armed, so the police need to be armed and have to presume they will face criminals who are armed and willing to fire on them.
    So how about surrounding the property and knocking on the door? Is a start.

    Or how about only shooting if they can see who is shooting at them and not shooting into the dark and killing an unarmed person?
    Again, no issue if Hamilton said he believed there needed to be a rethink of American police tactics. I have had interactions with them and I can see how my experience could have easy escalated very quickly if I hadn't very carefully followed their instruction.

    I can't quite understand you, in one breath you are happy for the government to break the law in a limited way, but also want people who haven't broken the law to be arrested.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that people outside a few bullish city banks are noticing as well now:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/13/uks-v-shaped-recovery-now-world-leader/

    It basically sets out the same things I've been saying on here for about a month, the UK is going to have a world beating recovery but some of that will be a quirk of statistics due to the timing and the way the ONS records GDP vs how it is done in the rest of the world.

    I expect in the next round of forecast updates in October the consensus is going to be -6% for the UK for the year which is still pretty terrible (mirroring 2007/8) but nothing like the -14% that was doing the rounds earlier in the year.

    I'll do a more detailed post on it on Tuesday when I'm back from Naples but as I said before the weekend, I think we're looking at 96% of prior GDP being the cap on what is recoverable, everything from then on will have to be organic. That's about an 900k job losses by my back of the fag pack calculation.

    Can I see your predictions compared to the reality now please? You promised a day or two ago
    I don't have access until Tuesday, but sure can include them and the updated ones.
    Thanks mate and hope you're well
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    LadyG said:

    Something a bit more authentically Scottish.

    'It's shite being Scottish, but even more shite being British in BJ's UK'

    https://youtu.be/29-LRuuqFT0

    "can't even find a decent culture to be colonised by"

    Ahem. Scotland was conquered and colonised by the English who also, by the by, created the modern world via the industrial revolution, saved the world during the Second World War, abolished slavery in their spare time, and created the greatest empire the world has ever seen, thereby making English the international language, allowing Scots to be (vaguely) understood all over the globe.

    if Scotland hadn't been beaten up and enslaved by England, Scots would still be gargling in their weird little Gaelic tongue, and would also be eating lichen.

    Irvine Welsh is simply and factually incorrect here. If you are going to be conquered and colonised, you may as well be conquered and colonised by the best: the English.

    It very neatly encapsulates the visceral Scottish inferiority complex vis-a-vis the English.
    Honestly I am utterly baffled by the narrative that Scotland was colonised by England; if anything, it was the other way around, with Scotland hijacking English wealth to support a colonial empire which wasn't otherwise affordable. There's a reason why Scottish merchants, industrialists, philosophers, engineers and politicians punched well above their weight (and continue to do so) in the UK as a whole.

    As an English person I think this is probably a good thing, Scotland has given the world a great deal and is a fantastic country, but I find it utterly bizarre that Scottish nationalists don't embrace this proven track record of success and instead insist that Scotland is a incapable, unfortunate victim of history.
    James Bond was of Scottish/Swiss ancestry. If that doesn't prove something or other I don't know what does.

    OTOH the indisputably top rank Britons - Darwin, Newton, Shakespeare, Wren, Turner all, I'm afraid, English.

    Hume and Maxwell beg to differ. Also, Adam Smith.
    Graham Bell, Burns, Stevenson, Watt, (Walter) Scott...

    Of the 24 UK PMs since 1900, 7 were Scottish (Brown, Blair, Macmillan, MacDonald, Bonar-Law, Campbell-Bannerman, and Balfour). 29% of PMs is exceptional given Scotland makes up around 8% of the UK population.
    Fleming, Logie Baird, J K Rowling, god bless her
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that people outside a few bullish city banks are noticing as well now:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/13/uks-v-shaped-recovery-now-world-leader/

    It basically sets out the same things I've been saying on here for about a month, the UK is going to have a world beating recovery but some of that will be a quirk of statistics due to the timing and the way the ONS records GDP vs how it is done in the rest of the world.

    I expect in the next round of forecast updates in October the consensus is going to be -6% for the UK for the year which is still pretty terrible (mirroring 2007/8) but nothing like the -14% that was doing the rounds earlier in the year.

    I'll do a more detailed post on it on Tuesday when I'm back from Naples but as I said before the weekend, I think we're looking at 96% of prior GDP being the cap on what is recoverable, everything from then on will have to be organic. That's about an 900k job losses by my back of the fag pack calculation.

    Can I see your predictions compared to the reality now please? You promised a day or two ago
    I don't have access until Tuesday, but sure can include them and the updated ones.
    Thanks mate and hope you're well
    Very well, just had an amazing weekend of food and wine in Naples with the wife!

    Hope you are too mane.
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    No. But Truss will be sacked at next reshuffle.
    Rumoured she will take over from Williamson at education
    Now she's sorted International Trade why not?
    Cheese on every school dinner menu.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited September 2020
    MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that people outside a few bullish city banks are noticing as well now:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/13/uks-v-shaped-recovery-now-world-leader/

    It basically sets out the same things I've been saying on here for about a month, the UK is going to have a world beating recovery but some of that will be a quirk of statistics due to the timing and the way the ONS records GDP vs how it is done in the rest of the world.

    I expect in the next round of forecast updates in October the consensus is going to be -6% for the UK for the year which is still pretty terrible (mirroring 2007/8) but nothing like the -14% that was doing the rounds earlier in the year.

    I'll do a more detailed post on it on Tuesday when I'm back from Naples but as I said before the weekend, I think we're looking at 96% of prior GDP being the cap on what is recoverable, everything from then on will have to be organic. That's about an 900k job losses by my back of the fag pack calculation.

    Fuck me, I hope you're right. -6% would be a triumph, in the circs.

    Relatedly, I took my older daughter to IKEA today to fit out a new bedroom. It was absolutely RAMMED. And lots of items were "out of stock". Some retail is doing very very well.
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    Are you happy with the proposed EU state aid rules now then? Japan has enforced stronger ones in our agreement with them
    Not true. You should try reading the details and not getting your news from Twitter headlines.

    From Page 4 of this thread at 7:45pm

    Because that's an agreed deal and not a negotiating position. Penultimate paragraph is the relevant one.

    James Webber, a partner at the law firm Shearman & Sterling, said: “It’s a concession of sorts by the UK, but if this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s.”
    The EU negotiations are negotiations, this is a signed deal - and this agreement is very close to what we're asking for. If we "compromise" from what we're asking for to this then as the lawyer quoted says it will be "much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
    The UK capitulated as your Tweet says, like Johnson did last time and like he will do this time with the EU if he wants a deal. Japan has walked over us.
    The UK hasn't "capitulated".

    Negotiations end in compromises and this is a compromise that is very close to what we were asking for.

    If I want to buy something off you, you say it costs £1000, I offer to pay £500, then we shake hands at £550 then have I "capitulated"?
  • No 10 have said this vote is not a resigning matter apparently
  • Scott_xP said:

    twitter.com/elliotttimes/status/1305251435475603459

    I misread that as Geoffrey Cox leads Extinction Rebellion....I thought crickey he kept that one quiet.
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    Are you happy with the proposed EU state aid rules now then? Japan has enforced stronger ones in our agreement with them
    Not true. You should try reading the details and not getting your news from Twitter headlines.

    From Page 4 of this thread at 7:45pm

    Because that's an agreed deal and not a negotiating position. Penultimate paragraph is the relevant one.

    James Webber, a partner at the law firm Shearman & Sterling, said: “It’s a concession of sorts by the UK, but if this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s.”
    The EU negotiations are negotiations, this is a signed deal - and this agreement is very close to what we're asking for. If we "compromise" from what we're asking for to this then as the lawyer quoted says it will be "much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
    The UK capitulated as your Tweet says, like Johnson did last time and like he will do this time with the EU if he wants a deal. Japan has walked over us.
    The UK hasn't "capitulated".

    Negotiations end in compromises and this is a compromise that is very close to what we were asking for.

    If I want to buy something off you, you say it costs £1000, I offer to pay £500, then we shake hands at £550 then have I "capitulated"?
    If you want to buy something off me, you offer £1000, I stamp around and shout, then I offer you £1000 made of lots of £10 notes, have I capitulated? Yes
  • No 10 have said this vote is not a resigning matter apparently
    The journalists are misreporting what Cox has said; he has said he will abstain, not that he will vote against the Government, which is a fairly important distinction.
  • MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.

    You can say well that's a terrible policy / law. IMO so is the second amendment.

    The underlying problem in the US is civilians are armed, so criminals are definitely armed, so the police need to be armed and have to presume they will face criminals who are armed and willing to fire on them.
    So how about surrounding the property and knocking on the door? Is a start.

    Or how about only shooting if they can see who is shooting at them and not shooting into the dark and killing an unarmed person?
    Again, no issue if Hamilton said he believed there needed to be a rethink of American police tactics. I have had interactions with them and I can see how my experience could have easy escalated very quickly if I hadn't very carefully followed their instruction.

    I can't quite understand you, in one breath you are happy for the government to break the law in a limited way, but also want people who haven't broken the law to be arrested.
    They shot dead an unarmed woman who was not shooting at them. How is that not breaking the law?

    Killing innocent unarmed people isn't legal.
  • Good for him.

    Maybe enough conservatives will do the right thing and see the bill fail
    What's this about GPs and face to face? WTF. A month or so ago Hancock was telling the very same newspaper that the default position would be telephone/video consultations and only go in if necessary after that. This was for after the virus had completely finished.

    Did I dream this?
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    Are you happy with the proposed EU state aid rules now then? Japan has enforced stronger ones in our agreement with them
    Not true. You should try reading the details and not getting your news from Twitter headlines.

    From Page 4 of this thread at 7:45pm

    Because that's an agreed deal and not a negotiating position. Penultimate paragraph is the relevant one.

    James Webber, a partner at the law firm Shearman & Sterling, said: “It’s a concession of sorts by the UK, but if this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s.”
    The EU negotiations are negotiations, this is a signed deal - and this agreement is very close to what we're asking for. If we "compromise" from what we're asking for to this then as the lawyer quoted says it will be "much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
    The UK capitulated as your Tweet says, like Johnson did last time and like he will do this time with the EU if he wants a deal. Japan has walked over us.
    The UK hasn't "capitulated".

    Negotiations end in compromises and this is a compromise that is very close to what we were asking for.

    If I want to buy something off you, you say it costs £1000, I offer to pay £500, then we shake hands at £550 then have I "capitulated"?
    If you want to buy something off me, you offer £1000, I stamp around and shout, then I offer you £1000 made of lots of £10 notes, have I capitulated? Yes
    That's not what happened though. The agreement is fantastic. "If this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.

    You can say well that's a terrible policy / law. IMO so is the second amendment.

    The underlying problem in the US is civilians are armed, so criminals are definitely armed, so the police need to be armed and have to presume they will face criminals who are armed and willing to fire on them.
    So how about surrounding the property and knocking on the door? Is a start.

    Or how about only shooting if they can see who is shooting at them and not shooting into the dark and killing an unarmed person?
    The details of the case aren't as black and white as you're making out. It was a no knock warrant, the suspect fired at officers, officers fired back blind in self defence and very sadly a woman died. It is a depressing case study on everything that's wrong with American policing. No one is at fault and the reason the officers haven't been arrested is because they fired back in self defence, the chances of conviction are basically zero, it would be a show trial.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    eek said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.
    The law allowed them to - it doesn't anymore and it still doesn't excuse anyone from shooting indiscriminately into a room when no shot has been fired from it.
    My point is you can say the officers acted poorly and irresponsibly and this was a terrible policy, but you can't go advocating arresting people who haven't broken the law.

    That's China, just arrest people we don't like and think of something to charge the with and failing they just send them to a camp.
    How about lying in the report of the incident?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    LadyG said:

    The unfolding realignment in the Middle East is probably the most significant thing happening at the moment.

    https://twitter.com/amichaistein1/status/1305232690153762822?s=21

    Sadly, I fear this may be even more significant. Israel going into a second national lockdown. They had it all under control.


    https://twitter.com/bpolitics/status/1305247484026007559?s=20

    If the rest of the world is forced to follow, may God help us all.
    Johnson and Cummings won't do that again, Johnson really doesn't like restricting personal freedom, even if it is in our own interests.

    Besides which, they now know they have already quite convincingly got away with circa 60,000 dead.
  • Good for him.

    Maybe enough conservatives will do the right thing and see the bill fail
    What's this about GPs and face to face? WTF. A month or so ago Hancock was telling the very same newspaper that the default position would be telephone/video consultations and only go in if necessary after that. This was for after the virus had completely finished.

    Did I dream this?
    I have no idea but the telephone triage system is working very well in our practice
  • "unconscionable". Lawyer speak for just about everything the lying charlatan who is PM does these days.
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    Are you happy with the proposed EU state aid rules now then? Japan has enforced stronger ones in our agreement with them
    Not true. You should try reading the details and not getting your news from Twitter headlines.

    From Page 4 of this thread at 7:45pm

    Because that's an agreed deal and not a negotiating position. Penultimate paragraph is the relevant one.

    James Webber, a partner at the law firm Shearman & Sterling, said: “It’s a concession of sorts by the UK, but if this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s.”
    The EU negotiations are negotiations, this is a signed deal - and this agreement is very close to what we're asking for. If we "compromise" from what we're asking for to this then as the lawyer quoted says it will be "much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
    The UK capitulated as your Tweet says, like Johnson did last time and like he will do this time with the EU if he wants a deal. Japan has walked over us.
    The UK hasn't "capitulated".

    Negotiations end in compromises and this is a compromise that is very close to what we were asking for.

    If I want to buy something off you, you say it costs £1000, I offer to pay £500, then we shake hands at £550 then have I "capitulated"?
    If you want to buy something off me, you offer £1000, I stamp around and shout, then I offer you £1000 made of lots of £10 notes, have I capitulated? Yes
    That's not what happened though. The agreement is fantastic. "If this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
    But you do acknowledge that the UK is currently trying to negotiate weaker state aid rules with the EU than it already agreed with Japan
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    eek said:

    eek said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.
    The law allowed them to - it doesn't anymore and it still doesn't excuse anyone from shooting indiscriminately into a room when no shot has been fired from it.
    My point is you can say the officers acted poorly and irresponsibly and this was a terrible policy, but you can't go advocating arresting people who haven't broken the law.

    That's China, just arrest people we don't like and think of something to charge the with and failing they just send them to a camp.
    How about lying in the report of the incident?
    There's multiple witnesses saying the shooting started after the door was smashed down and it came from the apartment, not the cops. It's just an all round rubbish situation. I don't know what a show trial with these guys being found not guilty on grounds of self defence would achieve.
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    iirc some in No. 10 have discovered it undermines their ability to use State Aid in some way or other (as all good Thatcherites love to do).

  • twitter.com/johnjohnstonmi/status/1305244031807561728

    How do these people get through screening? It happens with all parties.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2020
    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.

    You can say well that's a terrible policy / law. IMO so is the second amendment.

    The underlying problem in the US is civilians are armed, so criminals are definitely armed, so the police need to be armed and have to presume they will face criminals who are armed and willing to fire on them.
    So how about surrounding the property and knocking on the door? Is a start.

    Or how about only shooting if they can see who is shooting at them and not shooting into the dark and killing an unarmed person?
    The details of the case aren't as black and white as you're making out. It was a no knock warrant, the suspect fired at officers, officers fired back blind in self defence and very sadly a woman died. It is a depressing case study on everything that's wrong with American policing. No one is at fault and the reason the officers haven't been arrested is because they fired back in self defence, the chances of conviction are basically zero, it would be a show trial.
    They didn't "fire [at her] in self defence", she wasn't shooting at them.

    If someone goes into a shop armed to rob it and takes people hostage, then are the Police entitled to fire blind into the shop and kill everyone inside, innocent unarmed people, as a result trying to get the criminal? Even without getting into the fact that they were the intruders, she was not shooting at them.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that people outside a few bullish city banks are noticing as well now:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/13/uks-v-shaped-recovery-now-world-leader/

    It basically sets out the same things I've been saying on here for about a month, the UK is going to have a world beating recovery but some of that will be a quirk of statistics due to the timing and the way the ONS records GDP vs how it is done in the rest of the world.

    I expect in the next round of forecast updates in October the consensus is going to be -6% for the UK for the year which is still pretty terrible (mirroring 2007/8) but nothing like the -14% that was doing the rounds earlier in the year.

    I'll do a more detailed post on it on Tuesday when I'm back from Naples but as I said before the weekend, I think we're looking at 96% of prior GDP being the cap on what is recoverable, everything from then on will have to be organic. That's about an 900k job losses by my back of the fag pack calculation.

    Can I see your predictions compared to the reality now please? You promised a day or two ago
    I don't have access until Tuesday, but sure can include them and the updated ones.
    Thanks mate and hope you're well
    Very well, just had an amazing weekend of food and wine in Naples with the wife!

    Hope you are too mane.
    I have a theory that the poorest parts of Italy have the best food. eg Milan and Rome are rather average (because wealthy). Poorer Sicily and Sardinia are much better, Naples (properly poor) is great, and Calabria (the poorest) is sublime.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    edited September 2020

    So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    No. But Truss will be sacked at next reshuffle.
    Rumoured she will take over from Williamson at education
    Presumably he's getting promoted to one of the great Offices of State.
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.
    The law allowed them to - it doesn't anymore and it still doesn't excuse anyone from shooting indiscriminately into a room when no shot has been fired from it.
    My point is you can say the officers acted poorly and irresponsibly and this was a terrible policy, but you can't go advocating arresting people who haven't broken the law.

    That's China, just arrest people we don't like and think of something to charge the with and failing they just send them to a camp.
    How about lying in the report of the incident?
    Absolutely that's a very good point. The initial reporting was full of lies, that at least is an open and closed crime.
  • LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Something a bit more authentically Scottish.

    'It's shite being Scottish, but even more shite being British in BJ's UK'

    https://youtu.be/29-LRuuqFT0

    "can't even find a decent culture to be colonised by"

    Ahem. Scotland was conquered and colonised by the English who also, by the by, created the modern world via the industrial revolution, saved the world during the Second World War, abolished slavery in their spare time, and created the greatest empire the world has ever seen, thereby making English the international language, allowing Scots to be (vaguely) understood all over the globe.

    if Scotland hadn't been beaten up and enslaved by England, Scots would still be gargling in their weird little Gaelic tongue, and would also be eating lichen.

    Irvine Welsh is simply and factually incorrect here. If you are going to be conquered and colonised, you may as well be conquered and colonised by the best: the English.

    The whiffs of gently simmering wee coming from you are a tonic, I must say.
    WTF does that even mean? Is it meant to be an insult? it's just weird.
    Sounds like inferiority complex to me, one day you may get someone not born in England to actually believe rubbish like that and also get the backbone up to fend for yourselves and stop sponging, only one colony left to rob and it is going soon.
  • rcs1000 said:

    So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    No. But Truss will be sacked at next reshuffle.
    Rumoured she will take over from Williamson at education
    Presumably he's getting promoted to one of the great Offices of State.
    Maybe Williamson and Grayling both
  • Scott_xP said:

    twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305254043703480322

    Oh god we are back to "parliament veto" type situations over Brexit. In Cummings 4d chess world, he will love it, as easy to portray it again as Elites / Remainers vs the people.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2020

    So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    iirc some in No. 10 have discovered it undermines their ability to use State Aid in some way or other (as all good Thatcherites love to do).

    Any reports of criticism from No. 10?

    Or are you referring to the misleading headline from the FT earlier conflating a negotiating position with the EU and an actual agreed treaty deal that is very close but different to our negotiating position?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.

    You can say well that's a terrible policy / law. IMO so is the second amendment.

    The underlying problem in the US is civilians are armed, so criminals are definitely armed, so the police need to be armed and have to presume they will face criminals who are armed and willing to fire on them.
    So how about surrounding the property and knocking on the door? Is a start.

    Or how about only shooting if they can see who is shooting at them and not shooting into the dark and killing an unarmed person?
    The details of the case aren't as black and white as you're making out. It was a no knock warrant, the suspect fired at officers, officers fired back blind in self defence and very sadly a woman died. It is a depressing case study on everything that's wrong with American policing. No one is at fault and the reason the officers haven't been arrested is because they fired back in self defence, the chances of conviction are basically zero, it would be a show trial.
    They didn't "fire [at her] in self defence", she wasn't shooting at them.

    If someone goes into a shop armed to rob it and takes people hostage, then are the Police entitled to fire blind into the shop and kill everyone inside, innocent unarmed people, as a result trying to get the criminal? Even without getting into the fact that they were the intruders, she was not shooting at them.
    Setting aside the rights and wrongs (not belittling them) I just do not understand the liberal European obsession with the details of American policing. It's a foreign country, with various problems, and many virtues.

    Is it because America dominates social media, so these things get amplified worldwide? is it because it makes a certain type of European person feel virtuous in comparison?

    Would Lewis Hamilton wear a shirt for the thousands of Uighurs tortured or killed in China? I doubt it. Yet that is surely a far greater crime.
  • rcs1000 said:

    So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    No. But Truss will be sacked at next reshuffle.
    Rumoured she will take over from Williamson at education
    Presumably he's getting promoted to one of the great Offices of State.
    With Johnson and Cummings I fully expect Williamson to be put in as CoE after they sack Sunak for being popular.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited September 2020
    The embedded adverts are getting ever more perceptive...

    I'm currently getting one headed "The Country is Doomed".
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    Are you happy with the proposed EU state aid rules now then? Japan has enforced stronger ones in our agreement with them
    Not true. You should try reading the details and not getting your news from Twitter headlines.

    From Page 4 of this thread at 7:45pm

    Because that's an agreed deal and not a negotiating position. Penultimate paragraph is the relevant one.

    James Webber, a partner at the law firm Shearman & Sterling, said: “It’s a concession of sorts by the UK, but if this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s.”
    The EU negotiations are negotiations, this is a signed deal - and this agreement is very close to what we're asking for. If we "compromise" from what we're asking for to this then as the lawyer quoted says it will be "much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
    The UK capitulated as your Tweet says, like Johnson did last time and like he will do this time with the EU if he wants a deal. Japan has walked over us.
    The UK hasn't "capitulated".

    Negotiations end in compromises and this is a compromise that is very close to what we were asking for.

    If I want to buy something off you, you say it costs £1000, I offer to pay £500, then we shake hands at £550 then have I "capitulated"?
    If you want to buy something off me, you offer £1000, I stamp around and shout, then I offer you £1000 made of lots of £10 notes, have I capitulated? Yes
    That's not what happened though. The agreement is fantastic. "If this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
    But you do acknowledge that the UK is currently trying to negotiate weaker state aid rules with the EU than it already agreed with Japan
    That's a (fair) reaction to the maximalist EU position. The UK has taken the 1/10 alignment vs the EU asking for 9/10 alignment hoping to meet between 4 and 6, the Japan agreement is probably in that 4-6 range if it mirrors the EU agreement.

    If the UK gets the same sort of agreement as they have with Japan with the EU then it will have done very well and I have no doubt the government would meet them in the middle and budge from the 1/10 position they now occupy. If anything the EU should be happy about this, it shows the UK position is flexible on the subject, though I fear the antics from last week have completely poisoned any chance of a deal in that 4-6 range.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,106
    edited September 2020
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.

    You can say well that's a terrible policy / law. IMO so is the second amendment.

    The underlying problem in the US is civilians are armed, so criminals are definitely armed, so the police need to be armed and have to presume they will face criminals who are armed and willing to fire on them.
    So how about surrounding the property and knocking on the door? Is a start.

    Or how about only shooting if they can see who is shooting at them and not shooting into the dark and killing an unarmed person?
    The details of the case aren't as black and white as you're making out. It was a no knock warrant, the suspect fired at officers, officers fired back blind in self defence and very sadly a woman died. It is a depressing case study on everything that's wrong with American policing. No one is at fault and the reason the officers haven't been arrested is because they fired back in self defence, the chances of conviction are basically zero, it would be a show trial.
    They didn't "fire [at her] in self defence", she wasn't shooting at them.

    If someone goes into a shop armed to rob it and takes people hostage, then are the Police entitled to fire blind into the shop and kill everyone inside, innocent unarmed people, as a result trying to get the criminal? Even without getting into the fact that they were the intruders, she was not shooting at them.
    Setting aside the rights and wrongs (not belittling them) I just do not understand the liberal European obsession with the details of American policing. It's a foreign country, with various problems, and many virtues.

    Is it because America dominates social media, so these things get amplified worldwide? is it because it makes a certain type of European person feel virtuous in comparison?

    Would Lewis Hamilton wear a shirt for the thousands of Uighurs tortured or killed in China? I doubt it. Yet that is surely a far greater crime.
    China....just look at all the woke warriors in the NBA.....one mention by one team official about plight of Hong Kong and the NBA sent out all the biggest stars to claim China is nothing but amaze-balls. Nothing to do with the megabucks that come from the huge Chinese market.
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    No. But Truss will be sacked at next reshuffle.
    Rumoured she will take over from Williamson at education
    Now she's sorted International Trade why not?
    Yes , all that cheese the lactose intolerant Japanese will buy will be great for UK. Might as well let her wreck what is left of education in England.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.

    You can say well that's a terrible policy / law. IMO so is the second amendment.

    The underlying problem in the US is civilians are armed, so criminals are definitely armed, so the police need to be armed and have to presume they will face criminals who are armed and willing to fire on them.
    So how about surrounding the property and knocking on the door? Is a start.

    Or how about only shooting if they can see who is shooting at them and not shooting into the dark and killing an unarmed person?
    The details of the case aren't as black and white as you're making out. It was a no knock warrant, the suspect fired at officers, officers fired back blind in self defence and very sadly a woman died. It is a depressing case study on everything that's wrong with American policing. No one is at fault and the reason the officers haven't been arrested is because they fired back in self defence, the chances of conviction are basically zero, it would be a show trial.
    They didn't "fire [at her] in self defence", she wasn't shooting at them.

    If someone goes into a shop armed to rob it and takes people hostage, then are the Police entitled to fire blind into the shop and kill everyone inside, innocent unarmed people, as a result trying to get the criminal? Even without getting into the fact that they were the intruders, she was not shooting at them.
    Setting aside the rights and wrongs (not belittling them) I just do not understand the liberal European obsession with the details of American policing. It's a foreign country, with various problems, and many virtues.

    Is it because America dominates social media, so these things get amplified worldwide? is it because it makes a certain type of European person feel virtuous in comparison?

    Would Lewis Hamilton wear a shirt for the thousands of Uighurs tortured or killed in China? I doubt it. Yet that is surely a far greater crime.
    China....just look at all the woke warriors in the NBA.....one mention by one team official about plight of Hong Kong and the NBA sent out all the biggest stars to claim China is amaze-balls.
    Exactly, The hypocrisy stinks. Total double standards.

    To be fair the hypocrisy is shared worldwide. How many Muslim countries raise a peep of protest at China's grotesque and murderous behaviour in Xinjiang, even as they rage at westerners for "Islamophobic cartoons"?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    In a direct attack on his successor, Suella Braverman, and Robert Buckland, the justice secretary, he added: “What ministers should not do . . . is to take or use powers permanently and unilaterally to rewrite portions of an agreement into which this country freely entered just a few months ago.”

    The leading barrister Lord Pannick, QC, told The Times that “no responsible or reputable lord chancellor or attorney-general could remain in office” if they supported the bill.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-geoffrey-cox-leads-tory-rebellion-over-internal-market-bill-gsrt0mzcj
  • Oh well, just another Remainer plot Philip said
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,106
    edited September 2020
    LadyG said:



    Exactly, The hypocrisy stinks. Total double standards.

    To be fair the hypocrisy is shared worldwide. How many Muslim countries raise a peep of protest at China's grotesque and murderous behaviour in Xinjiang, even as they rage at westerners for "Islamophobic cartoons"?

    There is a lot of suggestion that their strike that only lasted one day was because they were all told if you don't play you will all forfeit all your money as it will be breach of contract.

    I would have a lot more respect if they had actually gone fine, I am not going to play then.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,412

    Good for him.

    Maybe enough conservatives will do the right thing and see the bill fail
    It's a pity they don't do it by a voice vote. His booming sound would wipe out the majority on its own.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:



    Exactly, The hypocrisy stinks. Total double standards.

    To be fair the hypocrisy is shared worldwide. How many Muslim countries raise a peep of protest at China's grotesque and murderous behaviour in Xinjiang, even as they rage at westerners for "Islamophobic cartoons"?

    There is a lot of suggestion that their strike that only lasted one day was because they were all told if you don't play you will all forfeit all your money as it will be breach of contract.

    I would have a lot more respect if they had actually gone fine, I am not going to play then.
    Uighur Lives Don't Matter

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that people outside a few bullish city banks are noticing as well now:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/13/uks-v-shaped-recovery-now-world-leader/

    It basically sets out the same things I've been saying on here for about a month, the UK is going to have a world beating recovery but some of that will be a quirk of statistics due to the timing and the way the ONS records GDP vs how it is done in the rest of the world.

    I expect in the next round of forecast updates in October the consensus is going to be -6% for the UK for the year which is still pretty terrible (mirroring 2007/8) but nothing like the -14% that was doing the rounds earlier in the year.

    I'll do a more detailed post on it on Tuesday when I'm back from Naples but as I said before the weekend, I think we're looking at 96% of prior GDP being the cap on what is recoverable, everything from then on will have to be organic. That's about an 900k job losses by my back of the fag pack calculation.

    Fuck me, I hope you're right. -6% would be a triumph, in the circs.

    Relatedly, I took my older daughter to IKEA today to fit out a new bedroom. It was absolutely RAMMED. And lots of items were "out of stock". Some retail is doing very very well.
    Everything’s out of stock everywhere! Suppliers can’t get their goods to the shops
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    Are you happy with the proposed EU state aid rules now then? Japan has enforced stronger ones in our agreement with them
    Not true. You should try reading the details and not getting your news from Twitter headlines.

    From Page 4 of this thread at 7:45pm

    Because that's an agreed deal and not a negotiating position. Penultimate paragraph is the relevant one.

    James Webber, a partner at the law firm Shearman & Sterling, said: “It’s a concession of sorts by the UK, but if this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s.”
    The EU negotiations are negotiations, this is a signed deal - and this agreement is very close to what we're asking for. If we "compromise" from what we're asking for to this then as the lawyer quoted says it will be "much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
    The UK capitulated as your Tweet says, like Johnson did last time and like he will do this time with the EU if he wants a deal. Japan has walked over us.
    The UK hasn't "capitulated".

    Negotiations end in compromises and this is a compromise that is very close to what we were asking for.

    If I want to buy something off you, you say it costs £1000, I offer to pay £500, then we shake hands at £550 then have I "capitulated"?
    If you want to buy something off me, you offer £1000, I stamp around and shout, then I offer you £1000 made of lots of £10 notes, have I capitulated? Yes
    That's not what happened though. The agreement is fantastic. "If this is where the negotiations end up, it will be much closer to the UK’s view of the world than the EU’s."
    But you do acknowledge that the UK is currently trying to negotiate weaker state aid rules with the EU than it already agreed with Japan
    Yes its a negotiating tactic. When the other side is demanding far too much then you always offer less than what you are prepared to accept. That way you can compromise without giving too much.

    Have you never done a negotiation before? That's really a simple concept, I don't know what you're struggling with.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    isam said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that people outside a few bullish city banks are noticing as well now:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/13/uks-v-shaped-recovery-now-world-leader/

    It basically sets out the same things I've been saying on here for about a month, the UK is going to have a world beating recovery but some of that will be a quirk of statistics due to the timing and the way the ONS records GDP vs how it is done in the rest of the world.

    I expect in the next round of forecast updates in October the consensus is going to be -6% for the UK for the year which is still pretty terrible (mirroring 2007/8) but nothing like the -14% that was doing the rounds earlier in the year.

    I'll do a more detailed post on it on Tuesday when I'm back from Naples but as I said before the weekend, I think we're looking at 96% of prior GDP being the cap on what is recoverable, everything from then on will have to be organic. That's about an 900k job losses by my back of the fag pack calculation.

    Fuck me, I hope you're right. -6% would be a triumph, in the circs.

    Relatedly, I took my older daughter to IKEA today to fit out a new bedroom. It was absolutely RAMMED. And lots of items were "out of stock". Some retail is doing very very well.
    Everything’s out of stock everywhere! Suppliers can’t get their goods to the shops
    Because covid? How?
  • Israel to impose three-week national lockdown

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-54134869
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.

    You can say well that's a terrible policy / law. IMO so is the second amendment.

    The underlying problem in the US is civilians are armed, so criminals are definitely armed, so the police need to be armed and have to presume they will face criminals who are armed and willing to fire on them.
    So how about surrounding the property and knocking on the door? Is a start.

    Or how about only shooting if they can see who is shooting at them and not shooting into the dark and killing an unarmed person?
    The details of the case aren't as black and white as you're making out. It was a no knock warrant, the suspect fired at officers, officers fired back blind in self defence and very sadly a woman died. It is a depressing case study on everything that's wrong with American policing. No one is at fault and the reason the officers haven't been arrested is because they fired back in self defence, the chances of conviction are basically zero, it would be a show trial.
    There was no intention to kill the woman, so it wouldn't be murder. Furthermore, the officers were under fire, and therefore are rightly given lattitude in how their actions are judged.

    But ultimately, the fault is with US policing, which emphasises the idea the the police are at war.
  • LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.

    You can say well that's a terrible policy / law. IMO so is the second amendment.

    The underlying problem in the US is civilians are armed, so criminals are definitely armed, so the police need to be armed and have to presume they will face criminals who are armed and willing to fire on them.
    So how about surrounding the property and knocking on the door? Is a start.

    Or how about only shooting if they can see who is shooting at them and not shooting into the dark and killing an unarmed person?
    The details of the case aren't as black and white as you're making out. It was a no knock warrant, the suspect fired at officers, officers fired back blind in self defence and very sadly a woman died. It is a depressing case study on everything that's wrong with American policing. No one is at fault and the reason the officers haven't been arrested is because they fired back in self defence, the chances of conviction are basically zero, it would be a show trial.
    They didn't "fire [at her] in self defence", she wasn't shooting at them.

    If someone goes into a shop armed to rob it and takes people hostage, then are the Police entitled to fire blind into the shop and kill everyone inside, innocent unarmed people, as a result trying to get the criminal? Even without getting into the fact that they were the intruders, she was not shooting at them.
    Setting aside the rights and wrongs (not belittling them) I just do not understand the liberal European obsession with the details of American policing. It's a foreign country, with various problems, and many virtues.

    Is it because America dominates social media, so these things get amplified worldwide? is it because it makes a certain type of European person feel virtuous in comparison?

    Would Lewis Hamilton wear a shirt for the thousands of Uighurs tortured or killed in China? I doubt it. Yet that is surely a far greater crime.
    Same reason why I'm more concerned with what happens to my brother than to a stranger.

    America is family, we share a language, a culture, TV shows, movie, music, literature . . . and yes news.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,106
    edited September 2020
    Why....tele-medicine seems a very sensible advancement for many interactions. This is a great opportunity to revolutionise and increase efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305249555785678861?s=20
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    iirc some in No. 10 have discovered it undermines their ability to use State Aid in some way or other (as all good Thatcherites love to do).

    Any reports of criticism from No. 10?

    Or are you referring to the misleading headline from the FT earlier conflating a negotiating position with the EU and an actual agreed treaty deal that is very close but different to our negotiating position?
    See Horse's posting.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    eek said:

    eek said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.
    The law allowed them to - it doesn't anymore and it still doesn't excuse anyone from shooting indiscriminately into a room when no shot has been fired from it.
    My point is you can say the officers acted poorly and irresponsibly and this was a terrible policy, but you can't go advocating arresting people who haven't broken the law.

    That's China, just arrest people we don't like and think of something to charge the with and failing they just send them to a camp.
    How about lying in the report of the incident?
    One of the (many) problems with the US criminal justice system is that it is almost impossible for the police not to step outside the bounds with a suspect. The consequence of this is that the police go to extraordinary lengths to make it appear that they acted correctly at every moment (so called "testilying").

    It's deeply fucked up.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MrEd said:

    Is Lewis getting too woke for yer average F1 fan?

    https://twitter.com/AJENews/status/1305240606839656448?s=20

    Not a good look just after two LA Deputies were shot in an ambush.

    However, I doubt it will hurt Hamilton too much. F1 fans are well off middle class types who are unlikely to put their heads above the parapet by criticising someone who supports BLM.

    To be fair to Hamilton, he is genuinely talented unlike Colin Kopernick who literally was going nowhere until wokedom propelled him to fame and fortune.
    Why is it not a good look?

    He's not saying "F**k the Police" or "ACAB" etc - he's saying to arrest killers.

    If arresting killers is controversial we've got a long way to go yet.
    This is the case where the police were enacting a search warrant. They knocked the hinges off the door and a man inside immediately fired on officers. The police then returned fire and this woman was killed.
    So they should be arrested.

    They didn't knock on the door or identify themselves in any reasonable way. Armed intruders burst through the door, people are entitled to self-defence. If the Police don't knock on the door or identify themselves then how is anyone at home supposed to know who has burst through the door?

    It is the people at the home who have the right to shoot not the Police who killed someone in her bed who burst through the door without knocking on the door.
    The law allows them to conduct no knock warrants.

    You can say well that's a terrible policy / law. IMO so is the second amendment.

    The underlying problem in the US is civilians are armed, so criminals are definitely armed, so the police need to be armed and have to presume they will face criminals who are armed and willing to fire on them.
    So how about surrounding the property and knocking on the door? Is a start.

    Or how about only shooting if they can see who is shooting at them and not shooting into the dark and killing an unarmed person?
    The details of the case aren't as black and white as you're making out. It was a no knock warrant, the suspect fired at officers, officers fired back blind in self defence and very sadly a woman died. It is a depressing case study on everything that's wrong with American policing. No one is at fault and the reason the officers haven't been arrested is because they fired back in self defence, the chances of conviction are basically zero, it would be a show trial.
    There was no intention to kill the woman, so it wouldn't be murder. Furthermore, the officers were under fire, and therefore are rightly given lattitude in how their actions are judged.

    But ultimately, the fault is with US policing, which emphasises the idea the the police are at war.
    No, I think the ultimate fault is America's revolutionary history, and the 2nd Amendment.

    America is an armed state with a populace which is uniquely happy to own, carry and use guns, and let their fellow citizens do the same.

    As a result, American police are acutely aware that they might be shot dead in any random moment, unlike almost any other police force worldwide, so they resort to violence much sooner. Of course there are issues with terrible training and embedded racism, but these are somewhat ancillary to the central issue.

    Guns.
  • Why....tele-medicine seems a very sensible advancement for many interactions. This is a great opportunity to revolutionise and increase efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305249555785678861?s=20

    Is that saying that GPs shouldn't offer tele-medicine?

    Or that they can't refuse face-to-face appointments for those who think they need one?

    Those are two very different situations.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,106
    edited September 2020

    Why....tele-medicine seems a very sensible advancement for many interactions. This is a great opportunity to revolutionise and increase efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305249555785678861?s=20

    Is that saying that GPs shouldn't offer tele-medicine?

    Or that they can't refuse face-to-face appointments for those who think they need one?

    Those are two very different situations.
    It says they MUST offer a patient the opportunity to a face to face appointment. Of course some people need them, but many people can be triaged from home. I trust GPs to manage that.

    I fear that if a GP has to say would you like an in-person or zoom, loads of people who don't really need to, will say better safe than sorry, in person please. Bit like testing, loads of people, think well you know, no harm in getting a test just to be sure.
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    iirc some in No. 10 have discovered it undermines their ability to use State Aid in some way or other (as all good Thatcherites love to do).

    Any reports of criticism from No. 10?

    Or are you referring to the misleading headline from the FT earlier conflating a negotiating position with the EU and an actual agreed treaty deal that is very close but different to our negotiating position?
    See Horse's posting.
    I've replied to Horse, he's just quoted the [very misleading] new headline, not reports from No. 10.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Scott_xP said:
    Ignorance of the law is still no defence?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    Somewhat bizarrely, I have almost exactly the same number of Twitter followers as her.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    LadyG said:

    isam said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that people outside a few bullish city banks are noticing as well now:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/13/uks-v-shaped-recovery-now-world-leader/

    It basically sets out the same things I've been saying on here for about a month, the UK is going to have a world beating recovery but some of that will be a quirk of statistics due to the timing and the way the ONS records GDP vs how it is done in the rest of the world.

    I expect in the next round of forecast updates in October the consensus is going to be -6% for the UK for the year which is still pretty terrible (mirroring 2007/8) but nothing like the -14% that was doing the rounds earlier in the year.

    I'll do a more detailed post on it on Tuesday when I'm back from Naples but as I said before the weekend, I think we're looking at 96% of prior GDP being the cap on what is recoverable, everything from then on will have to be organic. That's about an 900k job losses by my back of the fag pack calculation.

    Fuck me, I hope you're right. -6% would be a triumph, in the circs.

    Relatedly, I took my older daughter to IKEA today to fit out a new bedroom. It was absolutely RAMMED. And lots of items were "out of stock". Some retail is doing very very well.
    Everything’s out of stock everywhere! Suppliers can’t get their goods to the shops
    Because covid? How?
    Well, small sample (one) of my mate who owns a Domestic Appliance shop. He says for the first time ever he has empty spaces on the shop floor, and it’s driving him mad. Machine that he normally gets in 2-3 days are taking 6-7 weeks to arrive. He said something about the ports quarantining goods.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210

    Good for him.

    Maybe enough conservatives will do the right thing and see the bill fail
    What's this about GPs and face to face? WTF. A month or so ago Hancock was telling the very same newspaper that the default position would be telephone/video consultations and only go in if necessary after that. This was for after the virus had completely finished.

    Did I dream this?
    I have no idea but the telephone triage system is working very well in our practice
    It works really well in the US too. We are able to get a video call with a doctor very, very quickly, and for serious things they get you in the same (or the next) day.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:
    My MP. Hope he goes indy at next GE.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    isam said:

    LadyG said:

    isam said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    Glad to see that people outside a few bullish city banks are noticing as well now:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/09/13/uks-v-shaped-recovery-now-world-leader/

    It basically sets out the same things I've been saying on here for about a month, the UK is going to have a world beating recovery but some of that will be a quirk of statistics due to the timing and the way the ONS records GDP vs how it is done in the rest of the world.

    I expect in the next round of forecast updates in October the consensus is going to be -6% for the UK for the year which is still pretty terrible (mirroring 2007/8) but nothing like the -14% that was doing the rounds earlier in the year.

    I'll do a more detailed post on it on Tuesday when I'm back from Naples but as I said before the weekend, I think we're looking at 96% of prior GDP being the cap on what is recoverable, everything from then on will have to be organic. That's about an 900k job losses by my back of the fag pack calculation.

    Fuck me, I hope you're right. -6% would be a triumph, in the circs.

    Relatedly, I took my older daughter to IKEA today to fit out a new bedroom. It was absolutely RAMMED. And lots of items were "out of stock". Some retail is doing very very well.
    Everything’s out of stock everywhere! Suppliers can’t get their goods to the shops
    Because covid? How?
    Well, small sample (one) of my mate who owns a Domestic Appliance shop. He says for the first time ever he has empty spaces on the shop floor, and it’s driving him mad. Machine that he normally gets in 2-3 days are taking 6-7 weeks to arrive. He said something about the ports quarantining goods.
    Interesting, and a bit gloomy. That will slow our recovery.

    I was prepared to spend £300 in IKEA today to kit out my eldest's bedroom, but so much was of stock I just bought a couple of pillows etc and spent about £40

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Why....tele-medicine seems a very sensible advancement for many interactions. This is a great opportunity to revolutionise and increase efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305249555785678861?s=20

    I would have thought it was exactly the sort of 'game-changer' Cummings was looking for.

    GPs do, though, need to offer face to face for those older people who have never touched a computer or smart phone in their life and who aren't about to start now.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Good for him.

    Maybe enough conservatives will do the right thing and see the bill fail
    What's this about GPs and face to face? WTF. A month or so ago Hancock was telling the very same newspaper that the default position would be telephone/video consultations and only go in if necessary after that. This was for after the virus had completely finished.

    Did I dream this?
    I have no idea but the telephone triage system is working very well in our practice
    It works really well in the US too. We are able to get a video call with a doctor very, very quickly, and for serious things they get you in the same (or the next) day.
    It must be so much more efficient for GPs, as they can rattle through a load of Zoom calls without having all that wasted time of running a physical in-person service.
  • From party conference darling to non-person in just two years. Not bad going.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,106
    edited September 2020

    Why....tele-medicine seems a very sensible advancement for many interactions. This is a great opportunity to revolutionise and increase efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305249555785678861?s=20

    I would have thought it was exactly the sort of 'game-changer' Cummings was looking for.

    GPs do, though, need to offer face to face for those older people who have never touched a computer or smart phone in their life and who aren't about to start now.
    Oh absolutely. Not saying they should stop them totally. But the story is GPs must offer the opportunity of an in-person visit. What we know is that people are both resistant to change and also will think they will definitely get a better diagnosis in person.

    I trust GPs to decide and hopefully it should allow them to become more efficient and have more time for the high need patients, like the old and frail in person.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,719

    Good for him.

    Maybe enough conservatives will do the right thing and see the bill fail
    What's this about GPs and face to face? WTF. A month or so ago Hancock was telling the very same newspaper that the default position would be telephone/video consultations and only go in if necessary after that. This was for after the virus had completely finished.

    Did I dream this?
    Reading the article, it does say that GPS will be punished if they refuse face to face.

    I think that quite compatable with video assessment first.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    rcs1000 said:

    Good for him.

    Maybe enough conservatives will do the right thing and see the bill fail
    What's this about GPs and face to face? WTF. A month or so ago Hancock was telling the very same newspaper that the default position would be telephone/video consultations and only go in if necessary after that. This was for after the virus had completely finished.

    Did I dream this?
    I have no idea but the telephone triage system is working very well in our practice
    It works really well in the US too. We are able to get a video call with a doctor very, very quickly, and for serious things they get you in the same (or the next) day.
    During lockdown I had an ear infection (I get them a lot: a lifetime of swimming in tropical hotel pools), Normally I have to make a GP appointment, wait a few days (painfully), then trudge in, wait in the waiting room, then see the doc, then get a presceiption for a medicine I know full well will cure me and I can name, she signs the script, I go the chemist, and so on. Takes a week.

    In lockdown I called the doctor, we had a little conference, I named the medicine I needed, she agreed, she emailed the local chemist, I got my medicine, took two hours in total. SO MUCH EASIER
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,412

    Why....tele-medicine seems a very sensible advancement for many interactions. This is a great opportunity to revolutionise and increase efficiency.

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1305249555785678861?s=20

    Is that saying that GPs shouldn't offer tele-medicine?

    Or that they can't refuse face-to-face appointments for those who think they need one?

    Those are two very different situations.
    It says they MUST offer a patient the opportunity to a face to face appointment. Of course some people need them, but many people can be triaged from home. I trust GPs to manage that.

    I fear that if a GP has to say would you like an in-person or zoom, loads of people who don't really need to, will say better safe than sorry, in person please. Bit like testing, loads of people, think well you know, no harm in getting a test just to be sure.
    What's also become sadly apparent, whilst accepting fully that some serious cases are not being treated, is that many use the GP for not much more than a trip out and a chat.
    The need to "see a doctor" for relatively trivial ailments, or out of sheer loneliness, anxiety or for other societal ills abour which no medic can do anything is part of the reason why folk couldn't get appointments, sad to say.
  • So are we going to undermine our FTA with the Japan now it doesn't do what we want?

    Who says it doesn't?

    Truss has done a fantastic job yet again. She is one of our best Cabinet Ministers in a long time.
    iirc some in No. 10 have discovered it undermines their ability to use State Aid in some way or other (as all good Thatcherites love to do).

    Any reports of criticism from No. 10?

    Or are you referring to the misleading headline from the FT earlier conflating a negotiating position with the EU and an actual agreed treaty deal that is very close but different to our negotiating position?
    See Horse's posting.
    I've replied to Horse, he's just quoted the [very misleading] new headline, not reports from No. 10.
    Not correct. I provided more detail in another post.
This discussion has been closed.