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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We could be heading for crossover in the next PM betting

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited August 2020 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We could be heading for crossover in the next PM betting

Quite what is driving the betting is hard to say but Chancellor Sunak has moved sharply and as I write (2100 BST) is only 1% behind the LAB leader.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited August 2020
    First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137

    First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    The problem Sunak cannot do that and not risk a huge debt mountain in extending furlough well beyond lockdown for jobs that may not come back, retraining would be better
  • ydoethur said:

    First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    Surely it’s not your ex you need to worry about having the clap?

    Anyway, it is 9.12. In under three hours I officially start a new job,* and I am off to get some sleep to be ready for it.

    I hope to be back on PB at some point in the near future, and hopefully not because I’ve been locked down again. However, in case it’s a while, thank you for all your companionship this summer, and the many interesting discussions we have had about the great issues of the day. Oh, and US politics as well, of course.

    Good night, and have a good week.

    *obviously I don’t *actually* go in at midnight.
    Enjoy.
  • ydoethur said:

    First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    Surely it’s not your ex you need to worry about having the clap?

    Anyway, it is 9.12. In under three hours I officially start a new job,* and I am off to get some sleep to be ready for it.

    I hope to be back on PB at some point in the near future, and hopefully not because I’ve been locked down again. However, in case it’s a while, thank you for all your companionship this summer, and the many interesting discussions we have had about the great issues of the day. Oh, and US politics as well, of course.

    Good night, and have a good week.

    *obviously I don’t *actually* go in at midnight.
    I wish you every success in your vital work and for your contributions to PB in due course

    Keep safe
  • First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    Not with those who have been working for months.
  • Good luck with the new job ydoethur.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    Rishi only gets to be PM if BoZo leaves early.

    Happy Days...
  • The interesting thing with Sunak is now he isn't just the fresh faced 250/1 outsider, he's facing real challenges - and while balancing the books will be a very different challenge what he has faced so far he has dealt with adroitly.
    1. The furlough scheme was created and implemented smoothly and quickly - when it was announced many assumed if nothing else it would be a digital disaster and it hasn't been.
    2. The Meal Deal scheme was an interesting creation - it was assumed by many to be a gimmick at first but it has really got people talking and spending. Interestingly too though is that for headline items by a Chancellor normally expenditure gets spoken about in the order of billions here and billions there. This has been a major headline development that has cost the Treasury "only" half a billion pounds - probably less when you consider consequentials like additional duties brought in from alcohol sales, reduced expenditure on welfare for those who could have been laid off etc
    If the Treasury is facing a few lean years ahead then a few more developments like the Meal Deal that have a big return but don't break the bank would be very good for the country. Beats previous Chancellors normally throwing a few billion at a problem area and hoping it goes away as a result.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Rishi only gets to be PM if BoZo leaves early.

    Happy Days...

    Or if Boris is re-elected and retires towards the end of the next Parliament after nearly a decade as PM.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    edited August 2020
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,412

    The interesting thing with Sunak is now he isn't just the fresh faced 250/1 outsider, he's facing real challenges - and while balancing the books will be a very different challenge what he has faced so far he has dealt with adroitly.

    1. The furlough scheme was created and implemented smoothly and quickly - when it was announced many assumed if nothing else it would be a digital disaster and it hasn't been.
    2. The Meal Deal scheme was an interesting creation - it was assumed by many to be a gimmick at first but it has really got people talking and spending. Interestingly too though is that for headline items by a Chancellor normally expenditure gets spoken about in the order of billions here and billions there. This has been a major headline development that has cost the Treasury "only" half a billion pounds - probably less when you consider consequentials like additional duties brought in from alcohol sales, reduced expenditure on welfare for those who could have been laid off etc
    If the Treasury is facing a few lean years ahead then a few more developments like the Meal Deal that have a big return but don't break the bank would be very good for the country. Beats previous Chancellors normally throwing a few billion at a problem area and hoping it goes away as a result.
    Would add. The self employed income support grant. Super simple to access and efficiently discharged. So little red tape that we had difficulty providing proof we had got it.
    Am not aware of any widespread errors or anomalies. HMRC more broadly has had a good pandemic.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    edited August 2020

    The interesting thing with Sunak is now he isn't just the fresh faced 250/1 outsider, he's facing real challenges - and while balancing the books will be a very different challenge what he has faced so far he has dealt with adroitly.

    1. The furlough scheme was created and implemented smoothly and quickly - when it was announced many assumed if nothing else it would be a digital disaster and it hasn't been.
    2. The Meal Deal scheme was an interesting creation - it was assumed by many to be a gimmick at first but it has really got people talking and spending. Interestingly too though is that for headline items by a Chancellor normally expenditure gets spoken about in the order of billions here and billions there. This has been a major headline development that has cost the Treasury "only" half a billion pounds - probably less when you consider consequentials like additional duties brought in from alcohol sales, reduced expenditure on welfare for those who could have been laid off etc
    If the Treasury is facing a few lean years ahead then a few more developments like the Meal Deal that have a big return but don't break the bank would be very good for the country. Beats previous Chancellors normally throwing a few billion at a problem area and hoping it goes away as a result.
    1) Is of course as much down to the quality of the people who were able to implement the policy at HMRC in double quick time & keep on top of all the changes. My PSC ltd company has had a never ending stream of emails informing me of exactly what I needed to do in order to claim the various furlough scheme payments should I have wished to do so. Plus all the information has been there on the HMRC website & the systems put in place to deal with everything.

    By way of contrast, look at the way the US was simply unable to implement parts of the planned scheme because (IIRC) of a lack of COBOL programmers able to implement the required changes at short notice.

    Sunak made the right policy decision & was fortunate in that his predecessors & their civil servants had left him with a department that was capable of implementing that policy. It’s easy to praise the person at the top whilst overlooking the army of people who were actually responsible for doing the work. The civil service has taken a lot of knocks from this government, but here at least they appear to have worked hard & made things happen in response to government policy decisions; three cheers.

    2) Does seem to have been a surprisingly high return decision. Certainly more than I would have predicted!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    The vaccine in question is the Oxford/AZ one. The British government has an order with AZ, and expects to get 30 million doses by the end of September, rising to 100 million by year end.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,704
    Phil said:

    2) Does seem to have been a surprisingly high return decision. Certainly more than I would have predicted!

    I wonder if it's rewritten the playbook for pre-election budgets too. We could see variations of the scheme on a regular basis.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    Alistair said:
    Has to be forced choice - otherwise adding up to 100% would make no sense.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    @HYUFD

    Here's something even more terrifying from the Emerson polling:

    https://twitter.com/EmersonPolling/status/1300525358740131841
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Alistair said:
    Ah, I see Trump has 20% African American support.

    I rescind my wow.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Alistair said:
    The Trump surge is real.

    Got a whiff of inevitability about it but might be a convention bump which evaporates (one can only hope).
  • The interesting thing with Sunak is now he isn't just the fresh faced 250/1 outsider, he's facing real challenges - and while balancing the books will be a very different challenge what he has faced so far he has dealt with adroitly.

    1. The furlough scheme was created and implemented smoothly and quickly - when it was announced many assumed if nothing else it would be a digital disaster and it hasn't been.
    2. The Meal Deal scheme was an interesting creation - it was assumed by many to be a gimmick at first but it has really got people talking and spending. Interestingly too though is that for headline items by a Chancellor normally expenditure gets spoken about in the order of billions here and billions there. This has been a major headline development that has cost the Treasury "only" half a billion pounds - probably less when you consider consequentials like additional duties brought in from alcohol sales, reduced expenditure on welfare for those who could have been laid off etc
    If the Treasury is facing a few lean years ahead then a few more developments like the Meal Deal that have a big return but don't break the bank would be very good for the country. Beats previous Chancellors normally throwing a few billion at a problem area and hoping it goes away as a result.
    Rishi is clearly a smart cookie, and ought to be on the PM track (though he will test the "taller men win" theory to destruction). But...

    A year ago, he had only just joined the Cabinet.
    Five years ago, he had only just become an MP.

    There's promoting talent, and there's build 'em up to knock 'em down. And the fact that he's the best bet if Boris gets knocked down by a bus tomorrow (Raab was broken by the Covid interregnum, Patel is blatantly not up to it, Gove is too strange) shows how shallow the talent pool is right now.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Speak for America!
    Joe Biden must speak not just for his supporters, but for the nation

    https://thebulwark.com/speak-for-america/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,704
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    Has to be forced choice - otherwise adding up to 100% would make no sense.
    Yes, the question was, "If the Presidential Election were held today, would you vote for Donald Trump or Joe Biden?"

    https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/august-2020-presidential-race-tightens-after-party-conventions
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020
    Alistair said:
    If true it would mean Biden was matching the voteshare of Obama in 2012 and Trump had the highest voteshare of any Republican candidate since George W Bush in 2004 and we are heading for another cliffhanger election but obviously it is only one poll
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210

    Alistair said:
    The Trump surge is real.

    Got a whiff of inevitability about it but might be a convention bump which evaporates (one can only hope).
    Biden has dropped about a percent on the 538 polling average to 50.2%, while Trump has edged up to 43.1%.
  • Best of luck @ydoethur, I hope it is not long before we meet again friend but if it is, thank you for your kindness, your good grace and your interesting posts. All the very best to you and your family.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    By the way, loved the "Biden: Acceptable under the circumstances" film someone posted earlier.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    The Trump surge is real.

    Got a whiff of inevitability about it but might be a convention bump which evaporates (one can only hope).
    Biden has dropped about a percent on the 538 polling average to 50.2%, while Trump has edged up to 43.1%.
    I assume that’s a lagging indicator though? (I’d love it to be right, of course)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    Trump won independents 47% to 42% so not that far off, however he has pushed up his share of Democrats from 9% to 18%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    The Trump surge is real.

    Got a whiff of inevitability about it but might be a convention bump which evaporates (one can only hope).
    Biden has dropped about a percent on the 538 polling average to 50.2%, while Trump has edged up to 43.1%.
    I assume that’s a lagging indicator though? (I’d love it to be right, of course)
    Well yes. But don't forget that we had four polls today:

    Emerson: 51 vs 49
    USC Dorsife: 54 vs 40
    RMG: 49 vs 45
    HarrisX: 47 vs 38

    You have a fairly wide range of polls today, with leads ranging from 2 to 14 points for Biden.
  • rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Here's something even more terrifying from the Emerson polling:

    https://twitter.com/EmersonPolling/status/1300525358740131841

    So Trump wins on the day, Biden brings it back through mail and the winners are the lawyers heading for Florida, Pennsylvania and Minnesota
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    The vaccine in question is the Oxford/AZ one. The British government has an order with AZ, and expects to get 30 million doses by the end of September, rising to 100 million by year end.
    There’s also a nod to an ongoing philosophical debate which the FT guy has missed.

    I’ve seen it in the context of Alzheimer’s vaccines. Let’s say that you have something that you know is safe and cheap. And it *may* prevent Alzheimer’s. Is it ethical to prescribe on a mass basis.

    Given the drug approval is a balance of risk and reward then this is a case of low risk and potentially high reward. So - counterintuitively - it can be rational to prescribe something even if you don’t *know* if it works
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:
    The Trump surge is real.

    Got a whiff of inevitability about it but might be a convention bump which evaporates (one can only hope).
    Biden has dropped about a percent on the 538 polling average to 50.2%, while Trump has edged up to 43.1%.
    I assume that’s a lagging indicator though? (I’d love it to be right, of course)
    Well yes. But don't forget that we had four polls today:

    Emerson: 51 vs 49
    USC Dorsife: 54 vs 40
    RMG: 49 vs 45
    HarrisX: 47 vs 38

    You have a fairly wide range of polls today, with leads ranging from 2 to 14 points for Biden.
    Oh, thanks.

    I looked on RCP for new polls but none were shown.

    Thanks again for the update.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    Trump won independents 47% to 42% so not that far off, however he has pushed up his share of Democrats from 9% to 18%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_United_States_presidential_election

    Trump going from a five point lead to an eight point deficit with Independents would be a pretty poor performance, though. Especially as the number of registered independents has rise and the number of registered Republicans has fallen.
  • rcs1000 said:

    By the way, loved the "Biden: Acceptable under the circumstances" film someone posted earlier.

    There's a lot to be said for "acceptable under the circumstances". it embodies both Losers Consent and Winners Grace. Had that been the slogan for Dave's Deal, or TMay's Brexit plan, or Hunt over Johnson, or Burnham over Corbyn, would the UK really have been in a worse place than it is now?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Here's something even more terrifying from the Emerson polling:

    https://twitter.com/EmersonPolling/status/1300525358740131841

    So Trump wins on the day, Biden brings it back through mail and the winners are the lawyers heading for Florida, Pennsylvania and Minnesota
    Yep. That's pretty much spot on.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Here's something even more terrifying from the Emerson polling:

    https://twitter.com/EmersonPolling/status/1300525358740131841

    So Trump wins on the day, Biden brings it back through mail and the winners are the lawyers heading for Florida, Pennsylvania and Minnesota
    Yep. That's pretty much spot on.
    You missed out the social unrest on the streets. Trump's armed cult nuts will go bonkers if he wins on the day and Biden refuses to concede because of mail ballots.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, loved the "Biden: Acceptable under the circumstances" film someone posted earlier.

    https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1300418309683400707
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    ...
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
    Indeed.

    It assumes Democrats not turning out as much and assumes that those Democrats that do turn out are more likely to vote for Trump than Republicans voting against Trump.

    Neither assumption strikes me as solid.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Prof Roy Taylor deserves the Nobel for medicine for this discovery.


    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1300540144081084418/photo/1
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Prof Roy Taylor deserves the Nobel for medicine for this discovery.


    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1300540144081084418/photo/1

    Literally ANY diet programme would be better than the NHS telling people they're obese and doing absolutely nothing to help them lose weight
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    Who was the last Chancellor to replace a sitting PM in office? Was he popular when he took over? And if so how long did that popularity last?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    PM after Boris? Wilfred Johnson.
  • First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    Who was the last Chancellor to replace a sitting PM in office? Was he popular when he took over? And if so how long did that popularity last?
    Brown, initially popular then very unpopular
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    edited August 2020

    First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    Who was the last Chancellor to replace a sitting PM in office? Was he popular when he took over? And if so how long did that popularity last?
    The last Chancellor to do that was Gordon Brown, he had some initial popularity which led to articles like this

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase

    John Major followed a similar succession route and was popular for a couple of years, including winning a general election.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    Meanwhile Joe Kennedy III fighting hard on the eve of his tough Democratic Senatorial primary tomorrow in Massachussetts against incumbent Ed Markey

    https://twitter.com/joekennedy/status/1300543638716506112?s=20
  • First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    Who was the last Chancellor to replace a sitting PM in office? Was he popular when he took over? And if so how long did that popularity last?
    The last Chancellor to do that was Gordon Brown, he had some initial popularity which led to articles like this

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase

    John Major followed a similar succession route and was popular for a couple of years.
    Both did lose elections eventually
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
    Registered Dems still outnumber registered republicans in WV.
  • First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    Who was the last Chancellor to replace a sitting PM in office? Was he popular when he took over? And if so how long did that popularity last?
    The last Chancellor to do that was Gordon Brown, he had some initial popularity which led to articles like this

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase

    John Major followed a similar succession route and was popular for a couple of years.
    Both did lose elections eventually
    Major had a 50% record, better than Brown's 0% record in winning GEs.
  • kle4 said:

    PM after Boris? Wilfred Johnson.

    I've recently been betting on Priti Patel.

    I hate myself for that but we are where we are.
  • https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1300545034215985152

    Why would they want to save something we want to abolish?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,704

    First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    Who was the last Chancellor to replace a sitting PM in office? Was he popular when he took over? And if so how long did that popularity last?
    The last Chancellor to do that was Gordon Brown, he had some initial popularity which led to articles like this

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase

    John Major followed a similar succession route and was popular for a couple of years, including winning a general election.
    His succession route wasn't that similar. I doubt Thatcher would have tolerated 10 years of psychodrama from someone like Gordon Brown.
  • First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    Who was the last Chancellor to replace a sitting PM in office? Was he popular when he took over? And if so how long did that popularity last?
    The last Chancellor to do that was Gordon Brown, he had some initial popularity which led to articles like this

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase

    John Major followed a similar succession route and was popular for a couple of years.
    Both did lose elections eventually
    Major had a 50% record, better than Brown's 0% record in winning GEs.
    Correct.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    edited August 2020

    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1300545034215985152

    Why would they want to save something we want to abolish?

    'Cruel decision harming millions' my arse. Paper pandering to people more likely to buy papers more like.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    GOP people don't care. They have no interest in the good governance of their country. This is the Trump Party now.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Grandiose said:

    Prof Roy Taylor deserves the Nobel for medicine for this discovery.


    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1300540144081084418/photo/1

    Literally ANY diet programme would be better than the NHS telling people they're obese and doing absolutely nothing to help them lose weight
    No, the Newcastle diet (Roy Taylor's work) is very specific as to the amount you need to lose and the best way to do it. It is a diet for pre-diabetes and diabetes not a general diet for the overweight.

    Many people would think it is madly brutal until they try it. Most GPs would actively recommend NOT to do what Taylor has found works - 800 cals a day. Rapid weight loss. Meals of shakes and soup. Fat stripped from liver, pancreas and other organs.
  • GOP people don't care. They have no interest in the good governance of their country. This is the Trump Party now.
    Good GOP people have left the party this year.

    The GOP is down to representing a quarter of the population now not half of it. I won't find any names for that quarter.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,605

    rcs1000 said:

    By the way, loved the "Biden: Acceptable under the circumstances" film someone posted earlier.

    There's a lot to be said for "acceptable under the circumstances". it embodies both Losers Consent and Winners Grace. Had that been the slogan for Dave's Deal, or TMay's Brexit plan, or Hunt over Johnson, or Burnham over Corbyn, would the UK really have been in a worse place than it is now?
    For at least 3 of those, Farage would still be a force in the land.

    So yes - worse place.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
    Registered Dems still outnumber registered republicans in WV.
    It's an excellent point - simply more people are Registered Democrats (irrespective of how they vote).

    NEVERTHELESS, it is still interesting that the number of Registered Republicans has fallen from 40% of voters in 1988, to 28% today. While Dems have dropped much less.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210

    First.

    Sunak's going to be as popular as an ex with the clap if he doesn't extend the furlough scheme.

    Who was the last Chancellor to replace a sitting PM in office? Was he popular when he took over? And if so how long did that popularity last?
    Gordon Brown
    and before that
    John Major
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    In 17 days absentee ballots stay arriving in Wisconsin.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
    Registered Dems still outnumber registered republicans in WV.
    It's an excellent point - simply more people are Registered Democrats (irrespective of how they vote).

    NEVERTHELESS, it is still interesting that the number of Registered Republicans has fallen from 40% of voters in 1988, to 28% today. While Dems have dropped much less.
    I understand that America isn't the UK and there are differences but I believe I could and would support the GOP of 1988 - Reagan was a great man like Thatcher and the GOP were sane then. I couldn't support the GOP of today, they're batshit crazy.

    If many rightwingers (even if from a British perspective) can't support the GOP is it a surprise that the GOP is thinning out its support.

    Under Trump they're outright the party for white supremacists not the right wing.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210
    Alistair said:

    In 17 days absentee ballots stay arriving in Wisconsin.

    If states can organise to get most mail in ballots counted on the night (or even before) it could really make a difference.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    In 17 days absentee ballots stay arriving in Wisconsin.

    If states can organise to get most mail in ballots counted on the night (or even before) it could really make a difference.
    And deny us massive in play betting opportunities? For shame rcs, for shame.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,704
    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    In 17 days absentee ballots stay arriving in Wisconsin.

    If states can organise to get most mail in ballots counted on the night (or even before) it could really make a difference.
    Conversely if Trump can disrupt the counting of mail in ballots on the night, it could really create chaos.
  • On current trends the USA could overtake Sweden in deaths per capita this week.

    Sweden.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
    Registered Dems still outnumber registered republicans in WV.
    It's an excellent point - simply more people are Registered Democrats (irrespective of how they vote).

    NEVERTHELESS, it is still interesting that the number of Registered Republicans has fallen from 40% of voters in 1988, to 28% today. While Dems have dropped much less.
    I understand that America isn't the UK and there are differences but I believe I could and would support the GOP of 1988 - Reagan was a great man like Thatcher and the GOP were sane then. I couldn't support the GOP of today, they're batshit crazy.

    If many rightwingers (even if from a British perspective) can't support the GOP is it a surprise that the GOP is thinning out its support.

    Under Trump they're outright the party for white supremacists not the right wing.
    Oh, they are the anti-free trade, white nationalist party. Not a lot to like about that policy platform.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The vaccine in question is the Oxford/AZ one. The British government has an order with AZ, and expects to get 30 million doses by the end of September, rising to 100 million by year end.
    There’s also a nod to an ongoing philosophical debate which the FT guy has missed.

    I’ve seen it in the context of Alzheimer’s vaccines. Let’s say that you have something that you know is safe and cheap. And it *may* prevent Alzheimer’s. Is it ethical to prescribe on a mass basis.

    Given the drug approval is a balance of risk and reward then this is a case of low risk and potentially high reward. So - counterintuitively - it can be rational to prescribe something even if you don’t *know* if it works
    There are special considerations here, though, because of the likely behavioural changes associated with giving people the vaccine. If you approve a vaccine which may not be effective, it could make things worse as those who receive the vaccine think they are now safe and therefore stop taking precautions,.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,210

    rcs1000 said:

    Alistair said:

    In 17 days absentee ballots stay arriving in Wisconsin.

    If states can organise to get most mail in ballots counted on the night (or even before) it could really make a difference.
    Conversely if Trump can disrupt the counting of mail in ballots on the night, it could really create chaos.
    It's done at a state level.

    The Dems have the Governorships of WI, PA and MI. The Republicans have FL, AZ and IA.

    Make of that what you will.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
    Registered Dems still outnumber registered republicans in WV.
    It's an excellent point - simply more people are Registered Democrats (irrespective of how they vote).

    NEVERTHELESS, it is still interesting that the number of Registered Republicans has fallen from 40% of voters in 1988, to 28% today. While Dems have dropped much less.
    I understand that America isn't the UK and there are differences but I believe I could and would support the GOP of 1988 - Reagan was a great man like Thatcher and the GOP were sane then. I couldn't support the GOP of today, they're batshit crazy.

    If many rightwingers (even if from a British perspective) can't support the GOP is it a surprise that the GOP is thinning out its support.

    Under Trump they're outright the party for white supremacists not the right wing.
    Oh, they are the anti-free trade, white nationalist party. Not a lot to like about that policy platform.
    Not a lot at all.

    And their budget deficit policies are absolutely atrocious as well. The US deficit was already eyewatering even pre-COVID. The forecasts for American interest payments in forthcoming decades are absolute insane, the USA is going to go bankrupt without serious change even before COVID hit.

    They are pretty much the polar opposite to Cameroon Conservatives.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481

    Prof Roy Taylor deserves the Nobel for medicine for this discovery.


    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1300540144081084418/photo/1

    I'm not sure why - it is well known that Type 2 is reversible by diet. The NHS used to put sufferers on a special diet back in the day, but have stopped doing this in favour of insulin in recent years - stupidly. I'm glad they are restoring diet to the equation (though to be honest, soup and shake doesn't appear to be the healthiest way to do it), and it bodes well for introducing diet as a greater consideration in medical treatment, but it isn't a new discovery.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,412

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
    Registered Dems still outnumber registered republicans in WV.
    It's an excellent point - simply more people are Registered Democrats (irrespective of how they vote).

    NEVERTHELESS, it is still interesting that the number of Registered Republicans has fallen from 40% of voters in 1988, to 28% today. While Dems have dropped much less.
    I understand that America isn't the UK and there are differences but I believe I could and would support the GOP of 1988 - Reagan was a great man like Thatcher and the GOP were sane then. I couldn't support the GOP of today, they're batshit crazy.

    If many rightwingers (even if from a British perspective) can't support the GOP is it a surprise that the GOP is thinning out its support.

    Under Trump they're outright the party for white supremacists not the right wing.
    Oh, they are the anti-free trade, white nationalist party. Not a lot to like about that policy platform.
    Not a lot at all.

    And their budget deficit policies are absolutely atrocious as well. The US deficit was already eyewatering even pre-COVID. The forecasts for American interest payments in forthcoming decades are absolute insane, the USA is going to go bankrupt without serious change even before COVID hit.

    They are pretty much the polar opposite to Cameroon Conservatives.
    Indeed. Rather than fix the roof while the Sun is shining, Trump appears to have made all house coverings illegal in the middle of a monsoon.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,131
    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
    Registered Dems still outnumber registered republicans in WV.
    It's an excellent point - simply more people are Registered Democrats (irrespective of how they vote).

    NEVERTHELESS, it is still interesting that the number of Registered Republicans has fallen from 40% of voters in 1988, to 28% today. While Dems have dropped much less.
    I understand that America isn't the UK and there are differences but I believe I could and would support the GOP of 1988 - Reagan was a great man like Thatcher and the GOP were sane then. I couldn't support the GOP of today, they're batshit crazy.

    If many rightwingers (even if from a British perspective) can't support the GOP is it a surprise that the GOP is thinning out its support.

    Under Trump they're outright the party for white supremacists not the right wing.
    Oh, they are the anti-free trade, white nationalist party. Not a lot to like about that policy platform.
    Not a lot at all.

    And their budget deficit policies are absolutely atrocious as well. The US deficit was already eyewatering even pre-COVID. The forecasts for American interest payments in forthcoming decades are absolute insane, the USA is going to go bankrupt without serious change even before COVID hit.

    They are pretty much the polar opposite to Cameroon Conservatives.
    Indeed. Rather than fix the roof while the Sun is shining, Trump appears to have made all house coverings illegal in the middle of a monsoon.
    And the great flood that follows shall cleanse the earth of the wicked. Or something.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    I thought almost all postal ballots were counted on the night.

    In many instances, I think a chunk of postal ballots have actually been counted first - hence substantial vote totals when only 1% of precincts have reported.

    In past Presidential elections whilst it's true that vote totals have continued to rise in the days after the election, in most states they haven't risen that much - certainly nothing like by the numbers of postal ballots.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,594

    Prof Roy Taylor deserves the Nobel for medicine for this discovery.


    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1300540144081084418/photo/1

    I'm not sure why - it is well known that Type 2 is reversible by diet. The NHS used to put sufferers on a special diet back in the day, but have stopped doing this in favour of insulin in recent years - stupidly. I'm glad they are restoring diet to the equation (though to be honest, soup and shake doesn't appear to be the healthiest way to do it), and it bodes well for introducing diet as a greater consideration in medical treatment, but it isn't a new discovery.
    There's a reason why type 2 diabetes hardly existed between 1940 and 1955.
  • kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
    Registered Dems still outnumber registered republicans in WV.
    It's an excellent point - simply more people are Registered Democrats (irrespective of how they vote).

    NEVERTHELESS, it is still interesting that the number of Registered Republicans has fallen from 40% of voters in 1988, to 28% today. While Dems have dropped much less.
    I understand that America isn't the UK and there are differences but I believe I could and would support the GOP of 1988 - Reagan was a great man like Thatcher and the GOP were sane then. I couldn't support the GOP of today, they're batshit crazy.

    If many rightwingers (even if from a British perspective) can't support the GOP is it a surprise that the GOP is thinning out its support.

    Under Trump they're outright the party for white supremacists not the right wing.
    Oh, they are the anti-free trade, white nationalist party. Not a lot to like about that policy platform.
    Not a lot at all.

    And their budget deficit policies are absolutely atrocious as well. The US deficit was already eyewatering even pre-COVID. The forecasts for American interest payments in forthcoming decades are absolute insane, the USA is going to go bankrupt without serious change even before COVID hit.

    They are pretty much the polar opposite to Cameroon Conservatives.
    Indeed. Rather than fix the roof while the Sun is shining, Trump appears to have made all house coverings illegal in the middle of a monsoon.
    And the great flood that follows shall cleanse the earth of the wicked. Or something.
    Well Noah did have sex with his daughters after the flood. Given the way that Trump has spoken about Ivanka in the past . . .
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481
    Andy_JS said:

    Prof Roy Taylor deserves the Nobel for medicine for this discovery.


    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1300540144081084418/photo/1

    I'm not sure why - it is well known that Type 2 is reversible by diet. The NHS used to put sufferers on a special diet back in the day, but have stopped doing this in favour of insulin in recent years - stupidly. I'm glad they are restoring diet to the equation (though to be honest, soup and shake doesn't appear to be the healthiest way to do it), and it bodes well for introducing diet as a greater consideration in medical treatment, but it isn't a new discovery.
    There's a reason why type 2 diabetes hardly existed between 1940 and 1955.
    Do you have the figures? I wouldn't be surprised if it went up after 55 but I would be surprised if it went down after 40.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,594

    Andy_JS said:

    Prof Roy Taylor deserves the Nobel for medicine for this discovery.


    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1300540144081084418/photo/1

    I'm not sure why - it is well known that Type 2 is reversible by diet. The NHS used to put sufferers on a special diet back in the day, but have stopped doing this in favour of insulin in recent years - stupidly. I'm glad they are restoring diet to the equation (though to be honest, soup and shake doesn't appear to be the healthiest way to do it), and it bodes well for introducing diet as a greater consideration in medical treatment, but it isn't a new discovery.
    There's a reason why type 2 diabetes hardly existed between 1940 and 1955.
    Do you have the figures? I wouldn't be surprised if it went up after 55 but I would be surprised if it went down after 40.
    It was very low before 1940 anyway AFAIK. I don't have the figures at the moment but I was told this by someone who's worked in that field for a long time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,481
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Prof Roy Taylor deserves the Nobel for medicine for this discovery.


    https://twitter.com/BBCHelena/status/1300540144081084418/photo/1

    I'm not sure why - it is well known that Type 2 is reversible by diet. The NHS used to put sufferers on a special diet back in the day, but have stopped doing this in favour of insulin in recent years - stupidly. I'm glad they are restoring diet to the equation (though to be honest, soup and shake doesn't appear to be the healthiest way to do it), and it bodes well for introducing diet as a greater consideration in medical treatment, but it isn't a new discovery.
    There's a reason why type 2 diabetes hardly existed between 1940 and 1955.
    Do you have the figures? I wouldn't be surprised if it went up after 55 but I would be surprised if it went down after 40.
    It was very low before 1940 anyway AFAIK. I don't have the figures at the moment but I was told this by someone who's worked in that field for a long time.
    That's my supposition too. The joys of the modern diet...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,594
    Pretty good speech by Biden today. It'll be interesting to see the next tranche of opinions polls, (taken after the speech).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
    Registered Dems still outnumber registered republicans in WV.
    It's an excellent point - simply more people are Registered Democrats (irrespective of how they vote).

    NEVERTHELESS, it is still interesting that the number of Registered Republicans has fallen from 40% of voters in 1988, to 28% today. While Dems have dropped much less.
    I understand that America isn't the UK and there are differences but I believe I could and would support the GOP of 1988 - Reagan was a great man like Thatcher and the GOP were sane then. I couldn't support the GOP of today, they're batshit crazy.

    If many rightwingers (even if from a British perspective) can't support the GOP is it a surprise that the GOP is thinning out its support.

    Under Trump they're outright the party for white supremacists not the right wing.
    The Republican Party at the moment is not the party of Reagan or even the Bushes but basically a US version of UKIP under Trump.

    The Democrats meanwhile are mainly a combination of Cameroon Tories and LDs and Starmer Labour with some Bernie Sanders Corbynites on the fringe, pretty much the whole of UK politics would be within one wing of the Democratic Party or another with the exception of the most ardent Brexiteers like Farage, Francois and Rees Mogg who would still be behind Trump
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020

    On current trends the USA could overtake Sweden in deaths per capita this week.

    Sweden.

    We are already ahead of Sweden in deaths per capita, as are Belgium, Spain, Italy and Peru and Chile
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    The irony here is that Starmer's price is lengthening because he's doing well - it increases the chance that the Tories will replace Johnson early. If Starmer was slumping then Johnson would be safe.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited August 2020
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Here's something even more terrifying from the Emerson polling:

    https://twitter.com/EmersonPolling/status/1300525358740131841

    So Trump wins on the day, Biden brings it back through mail and the winners are the lawyers heading for Florida, Pennsylvania and Minnesota
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137

    The irony here is that Starmer's price is lengthening because he's doing well - it increases the chance that the Tories will replace Johnson early. If Starmer was slumping then Johnson would be safe.

    Indeed, Major only replaced Thatcher after Kinnock gained a big poll lead
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,137
    edited August 2020
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @HYUFD

    Reading the press release, I see the following from Emerson:

    "Biden leads with independents 50% to 42%. Trump has an 83% to 14% lead over Biden with Republicans while Biden leads Trump 79% to 18% among Democratic voters."

    Which is all a bit odd. Because Trump won independents handily last time around.

    18% of Democrats are backing Trump? 😕
    It's also hard to match those numbers with the partisan split in the US, unless you believe turnout among Registered Democrats will be a lot lower than among Registered Republicans. (Possible for sure, but not likely.)
    Registered Dems still outnumber registered republicans in WV.
    It's an excellent point - simply more people are Registered Democrats (irrespective of how they vote).

    NEVERTHELESS, it is still interesting that the number of Registered Republicans has fallen from 40% of voters in 1988, to 28% today. While Dems have dropped much less.
    I understand that America isn't the UK and there are differences but I believe I could and would support the GOP of 1988 - Reagan was a great man like Thatcher and the GOP were sane then. I couldn't support the GOP of today, they're batshit crazy.

    If many rightwingers (even if from a British perspective) can't support the GOP is it a surprise that the GOP is thinning out its support.

    Under Trump they're outright the party for white supremacists not the right wing.
    The Republican Party at the moment is not the party of Reagan or even the Bushes but basically a US version of UKIP under Trump.

    The Democrats meanwhile are mainly a combination of Cameroon Tories and LDs and Starmer Labour with some Bernie Sanders Corbynites on the fringe, pretty much the whole of UK politics would be within one wing of the Democratic Party or another with the exception of the most ardent Brexiteers like Farage, Francois and Rees Mogg who would still be behind Trump
    Though that being said Trump does resemble Barry Goldwater or Pat Buchanan in much of his policy platform combined with some of George Wallace
This discussion has been closed.