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    Scott_xP said:
    I cannot recall the CMOs having anything to do with Barnard Castle

    These people actively want to harm our children with their claptrap
    Perhaps Dr Van-Tam should lead on this, as he had the balls to effectively say Cummings was wrong and the rules did apply to him and his case?
    There is a much wider issue here than party politics

    All schools across the UK are going back full time, all the CMO's have endorsed it, and Sturgeon (SNP), Drakeford (Labour), Foster ( DUP) and Boris (Conservative) are at one, in demanding it

    And for once all the politicians are correct and I will hold no quarter with anyone who wants to interrupt the process and thereby damage a generation of our children
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    eek said:



    Did many shops transfer out of the high street onto Teesside Park? I know this happened in Sheffield, but from what I could see Stockton had different shops anyway. To wrap up my comments on this we then had the hoo hah about hotels. Boro has chain hotels in the centre of town, with demand outstripping supply. Stockton - in the middle of a massive regeneration of the town centre - decides to build a chain hotel in the town centre.

    No say the Thornaby Independents, put the hotel on Teesside Park (cos its in Thornaby). Never mind that it would be in the middle of nowhere and wouldn't help with regeneration it had to be in OUR town. Cos apparently Thornaby folk don't cross the bridge into Stockton as there's Trolls under it.

    I'll shut up now. Did I say that I hate local politics?

    Teesside Park took the customers away then over time the shops disappear.

    As for the hotel that Hilton us a white elephant. As someone who travels a lot it fails every rule when I'm picking a hotel for work - I won't drive into a town centre for a hotel and I can't think of anyone else who would.

    To a large extent it reminds me of an old Travelodge I used once in Wakefield. It closed during Travelodges first set of closures as no one would drive to a town centre hotel.

    And yet just 2 miles away the demand for town centre hotels is such that they opened a Premier Inn literally next to the Jurys Inn which is across from the Holiday Inn Express. I stay in a lot of urban hotels - would rather be near somewhere than out of town.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    eristdoof said:

    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    There are some truly horrible suggestions here.
    https://www.dezeen.com/2014/02/27/alternative-designs-proposed-for-a-union-jack-without-scotland/

    This site is a bit better including the one Moonshine suggested
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/09/what-happens-to-the-union-jack-flag-if-scotland-leaves-the-united-kingdom/380279/
    I see that who decides what colour our flag should be is a grey area.
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    The problem I see for the Lib Dems I am afraid - and I say this having voted for them in December, albeit tactically, I did not support Jo Swinson - is that are there really enough voters that are likely to think "I really don't want the Tories, so I'll vote Lib Dem" which by implication means they want PM Starmer?

    Why not just vote Labour then?

    Because they don't want Labour. Under FPTP we will end up with a Tory or Labour government of some form or another. Moderating those with other parties is what happens when people don't want either.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429

    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    Don't forget to leave a space for orange when Ireland inevitably begs to rejoin the (r)UK.
    I have to say, that is one of the more odd things I see Brexiteers saying, that Ireland will be next to leave and they will want to rejoin the UK. Very strange
    Indeed. The Irish government minister interviewed on R4 last week was very clear about this. Ireland feels it has benefited considerably from EU membership, and may be even better positioned after Brexit begins to hit the UK.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,029
    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    That would look a bit Basque.

    Some flag nerds have already worked it out:



    RAFEW would also need new roundels that would either look suspiciously Italian or Bangladeshi.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,627
    Sandpit said:

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    That's a deeply generic set of concerns.

    I don't think Nevada is comfortably blue but for two elections in a row now Nevada has outperformed the polling for the Dems.

    In 2016 the polling average had it as a narrow Trump win, in 2018 the polling average was a tie (with a 7 point GOP lead at one point) and the Dems won by 5.

    The key thing to look at is voter registration. It maps to votes cast in presidential election.
    I think the Democrats are ridiculosuly complaeent.

    They are relying on pumping up turning amongst Democrats that didn't turn out for Hillary in 2016.

    Biden also needs to leave his comfort zone and target WWC floating voters in the swing states *directly* as well.

    So far, I see little sign of that.
    I'm seeing a number of independent and left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool) saying that people are moving away from the Dems, because of their implicit support for what's going on in Portland and other cities, as well as the wider culture war stuff, that they seem unwilling to condemn in order to keep their left wing on side.

    There could be a lot of non-voters among the centrists, who see two extreme positions and can't be bothered with it - but there's also an opportunity for both parties to try attract these swing voters in the next two months. Turnout was barely 50% last time out, there's tens of millions of these mostly non-political centrists, and whichever party reaches out to them could be rewarded.

    I think the main Presidential race is closer than most people think.
    Agreed (I don't know what happened to my spelling on the previous post either!)
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,627
    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    It won't change as the brand power/value/recognition of it is vast.
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,819
    He's very good.

    This one is quite concerning:
    https://youtu.be/-xOO9t5HWYs
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    edited August 2020
    Sandpit said:

    left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    Lol.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,627

    That Andrew Murray quote is very troubling indeed.

    It doesn't surprise me.

    For many Marxists race is only interesting in so much as it furthers their real goals on class.
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    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited August 2020

    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    That's a deeply generic set of concerns.

    I don't think Nevada is comfortably blue but for two elections in a row now Nevada has outperformed the polling for the Dems.

    In 2016 the polling average had it as a narrow Trump win, in 2018 the polling average was a tie (with a 7 point GOP lead at one point) and the Dems won by 5.

    The key thing to look at is voter registration. It maps to votes cast in presidential election.
    I think the Democrats are ridiculosuly complaeent.

    They are relying on pumping up turning amongst Democrats that didn't turn out for Hillary in 2016.

    Biden also needs to leave his comfort zone and target WWC floating voters in the swing states *directly* as well.

    So far, I see little sign of that.
    I agree its astonishing how complacent the dems are. And not just with working class white voters.

    I wonder if this the election where we find out BLM do not represent minority communities in America, in Britain, or anywhere else.

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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,094
    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    That would look a bit Basque.

    Some flag nerds have already worked it out:



    RAFEW would also need new roundels that would either look suspiciously Italian or Bangladeshi.
    That’s rank and symbolically meaningless.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,029

    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    It won't change as the brand power/value/recognition of it is vast.
    That'll be a bit of a piss-take like Marillion after Fish left.
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    BoothmanBoothman Posts: 13

    My wife comes from Rochdale. We hadn't been back for ages, though, until a couple of years ago when we were advised to do so and see the improvement in the Town Centre. And it is a great deal more open, cleaner and fresher than when she last saw it, in the late 80's when her parents moved away.

    They ripped out a lot of the decking over the Roch in the town centre. Which then allowed the river to flood the town centre a few years ago! Demolishing local "landmarks" like the Black Box and bus station are positives, but as with the removed decking it did lead to just a windswept open area.

    As for the latest scheme of "lets build a shopping centre" the 70s shopping centre is half empty. The 80s shopping centre is 3/4 empty. And on the main shopping street what isn't shuttered is charity or vape shops.
    Like I said, it's still not perfect, but it is vastly better than when I remember it as a kid in the 90s. I don't live there now, but visit every now and then, and I have been pleasantly surprised the last few times. Yorkshire Street is still shit though, granted.

    I think wider in the town there's been an improvement as well - the new 6th form college is better than the old one and there seems to be a mild gentrification going on in some places, if house prices are anything to go off.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,913

    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    It won't change as the brand power/value/recognition of it is vast.
    Like the fleurs de lys of France in the English royal arms?
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    The problem I see for the Lib Dems I am afraid - and I say this having voted for them in December, albeit tactically, I did not support Jo Swinson - is that are there really enough voters that are likely to think "I really don't want the Tories, so I'll vote Lib Dem" which by implication means they want PM Starmer?

    Why not just vote Labour then?

    Because they don't want Labour. Under FPTP we will end up with a Tory or Labour government of some form or another. Moderating those with other parties is what happens when people don't want either.
    Are there lots of voters like this? Bearing in mind the Tory majority?
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,913

    Scott_xP said:
    I cannot recall the CMOs having anything to do with Barnard Castle

    These people actively want to harm our children with their claptrap
    Perhaps Dr Van-Tam should lead on this, as he had the balls to effectively say Cummings was wrong and the rules did apply to him and his case?
    There is a much wider issue here than party politics

    All schools across the UK are going back full time, all the CMO's have endorsed it, and Sturgeon (SNP), Drakeford (Labour), Foster ( DUP) and Boris (Conservative) are at one, in demanding it

    And for once all the politicians are correct and I will hold no quarter with anyone who wants to interrupt the process and thereby damage a generation of our children
    We cannot know that the pols are correct - we have to hope that they are.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    Sandpit said:


    I think the main Presidential race is closer than most people think.

    Completely disagree.
    Last time round Clinton was rated 85% or so https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/category/democratic-nomination/hillary-clinton/page/2/

    This time round, Biden is rated around 55% or so. I think 538's model is more correct than people give it credit for, and immediately prior to the election Clinton (And Biden now) are both rated around 73%.

    The markets have gone from underestimating Trump last time round to overestimating him this time round. It's precisely the same sort of reasoning that landed big value on the Tories in 2019, and I said so prior to the election in my piece.

    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/11/11/a-brexit-carol-how-last-time-is-shaping-the-view-of-ge2019/
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,094
    Not sure how he’s worked that one out considering @HYUFD reckons the Scottish Cons are only going to stand in 33% of constituencies.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Sandpit said:

    left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    Lol.
    Three people who all discussed their support for the aims of Bernie Sanders, yet don't want now to vote for the people who are supporting riots and hounding people out of their jobs for expressing an opinion.

    It could be a big problem for the Democrats, the culture war stuff is very real and a backlash against the riots especially could be in Trump's favour if they continue.

    Kim Klacik's video about Baltimore has got 11m views in less than a week. She's the black, female Republican who's fed up living in a city where black people are being killed every day.

    All I'm saying is that it's not a foregone conclusion, as much as many people hope it is.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,385
    eristdoof said:

    Scott_xP said:
    When it comes to discrimination, you don't get to pick and choose which forms of descrimination are OK.
    He’s a discriminating discriminator. He only helps politically correct minorities.

    I think we do need to remember the whole Corbyn project was built on the idea that a few rich bastards are creaming off everything and that everybody else hated them and would vote to punish them. And in his rather simple mind Jews are rich bastards. We saw that with the ADL video tricking Labour supporters into condemning Corbyn by saying his quotes were from Johnson.

    The problem was this was based on a fundamental misunderstanding. His target of ‘rich bastards’ was effectively ‘anyone who owned their own home.’ A bit like Stalin’s kulaks. There were no kulaks in the Soviet Union in 1928. They had been killed, or fled, in the Civil War. But Stalin pretended there were so he could go after all the peasants.

    But unlike Stalin, Corbyn got his comeuppance as his targets could - and did - vote against him.

    Which left him as a racist greedy bastard who doesn’t understand politics or economics.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    It won't change as the brand power/value/recognition of it is vast.
    That'll be a bit of a piss-take like Marillion after Fish left.
    Kayleigh without Derek Dick's Midlothian burr would just be shit.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912
    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    The cross of St Patrick remained, but it would be hard to justify keeping the Saltire.

    Perhaps a style like the white ensign, but with a Welsh flag in the top corner rather than a Union Flag?

    A number of other flags such as Austalia and NZ may want to update too.
    Conventionally the Australian Flag needs a referendum to change it. Australian PM John Howard got floored by a journalist on this.

    The back story: A minority of Australians want the flag changed as "the Union Flag represents the colonialist past". Howard always said that there needs to be a referendum if the flag were to be changed. The large star (the Federation Star) in the Australian flag has 7 points representing the 6 states and one point for all the territories. In 1998 or so Northern Territory had a territory-wide referendum whether to become a state. In the run up to the Northern Territory decision, the Journalist asked: If the Northern Territory becomes a state, will we be having a referendum just to put another point on the Federation Star?

    Howard realised that any quick answer would be putting his foot in it, and it was clear he had not even thought of this "problem", so he had not thought of how to approach answering it. He ended up just blustering "that's an interesting question".

    In this case kicking the can worked, as NT voted to remain a territory.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:


    I think the main Presidential race is closer than most people think.

    Completely disagree.
    Last time round Clinton was rated 85% or so https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/category/democratic-nomination/hillary-clinton/page/2/

    This time round, Biden is rated around 55% or so. I think 538's model is more correct than people give it credit for, and immediately prior to the election Clinton (And Biden now) are both rated around 73%.

    The markets have gone from underestimating Trump last time round to overestimating him this time round. It's precisely the same sort of reasoning that landed big value on the Tories in 2019, and I said so prior to the election in my piece.

    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/11/11/a-brexit-carol-how-last-time-is-shaping-the-view-of-ge2019/
    There's a disparity between the recent polling and the betting markets. I think the betting markets are more accurate, and there's a shy Republican effect in the polling.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912

    Dura_Ace said:

    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    It won't change as the brand power/value/recognition of it is vast.
    That'll be a bit of a piss-take like Marillion after Fish left.
    Kayleigh without Derek Dick's Midlothian burr would just be shit.
    Kayleigh is shit. Even though I bought it as a single.

    In fact it might embarrasingly be the only single I ever bought which was in the charts at the time. I usually saved the pocket money to buy albums.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    Lol.
    Three people who all discussed their support for the aims of Bernie Sanders, yet don't want now to vote for the people who are supporting riots and hounding people out of their jobs for expressing an opinion.

    It could be a big problem for the Democrats, the culture war stuff is very real and a backlash against the riots especially could be in Trump's favour if they continue.

    Kim Klacik's video about Baltimore has got 11m views in less than a week. She's the black, female Republican who's fed up living in a city where black people are being killed every day.

    All I'm saying is that it's not a foregone conclusion, as much as many people hope it is.
    In other news, Rush Limbaugh's a centrist.

    'After Sanders dropped out of the race, Rogan said he would "rather vote for Trump than Biden."'

    'Rubin is generally described as conservative and libertarian. He often describes himself as a "classical liberal."'

    'According to Politico, Pool's "views on issues including social media bias and immigration often align with conservatives'"
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,823

    The problem I see for the Lib Dems I am afraid - and I say this having voted for them in December, albeit tactically, I did not support Jo Swinson - is that are there really enough voters that are likely to think "I really don't want the Tories, so I'll vote Lib Dem" which by implication means they want PM Starmer?

    Why not just vote Labour then?

    Because they don't want Labour. Under FPTP we will end up with a Tory or Labour government of some form or another. Moderating those with other parties is what happens when people don't want either.
    Are there lots of voters like this? Bearing in mind the Tory majority?
    11.5% of the population in Dec 2019.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited August 2020

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    Lol.
    Three people who all discussed their support for the aims of Bernie Sanders, yet don't want now to vote for the people who are supporting riots and hounding people out of their jobs for expressing an opinion.

    It could be a big problem for the Democrats, the culture war stuff is very real and a backlash against the riots especially could be in Trump's favour if they continue.

    Kim Klacik's video about Baltimore has got 11m views in less than a week. She's the black, female Republican who's fed up living in a city where black people are being killed every day.

    All I'm saying is that it's not a foregone conclusion, as much as many people hope it is.
    In other news, Rush Limbaugh's a centrist.

    'After Sanders dropped out of the race, Rogan said he would "rather vote for Trump than Biden."'

    'Rubin is generally described as conservative and libertarian. He often describes himself as a "classical liberal."'

    'According to Politico, Pool's "views on issues including social media bias and immigration often align with conservatives'"
    Three natural Democrat voters with a media profile, none of whom are likely to vote for them this November...
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    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    Lol.
    Three people who all discussed their support for the aims of Bernie Sanders, yet don't want now to vote for the people who are supporting riots and hounding people out of their jobs for expressing an opinion.

    It could be a big problem for the Democrats, the culture war stuff is very real and a backlash against the riots especially could be in Trump's favour if they continue.

    Kim Klacik's video about Baltimore has got 11m views in less than a week. She's the black, female Republican who's fed up living in a city where black people are being killed every day.

    All I'm saying is that it's not a foregone conclusion, as much as many people hope it is.
    You are right -- Trump vs Biden is not a foregone conclusion. But all the polling suggests that were the election held today, it would be a Biden landslide. The reason it is not a foregone conclusion is the election is not today and Trump has a little over two months to turn it round, starting with the GOP convention that begins today.
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    No. That's Tim, a passionate Labour but not Corbynist person formerly of this parish.

    When he was here he was obsessed a bit with George Osborne whom he mocked as a great Strategist. After he left this site his Tweets kept getting quoted for a long time with names like GOsborneGenius.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:


    I think the main Presidential race is closer than most people think.

    Completely disagree.
    Last time round Clinton was rated 85% or so https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/category/democratic-nomination/hillary-clinton/page/2/

    This time round, Biden is rated around 55% or so. I think 538's model is more correct than people give it credit for, and immediately prior to the election Clinton (And Biden now) are both rated around 73%.

    The markets have gone from underestimating Trump last time round to overestimating him this time round. It's precisely the same sort of reasoning that landed big value on the Tories in 2019, and I said so prior to the election in my piece.

    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/11/11/a-brexit-carol-how-last-time-is-shaping-the-view-of-ge2019/
    There's a disparity between the recent polling and the betting markets. I think the betting markets are more accurate, and there's a shy Republican effect in the polling.
    The betting markets are spooked by 2016.
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    ClippPClippP Posts: 1,700
    Foxy said:

    The problem I see for the Lib Dems I am afraid - and I say this having voted for them in December, albeit tactically, I did not support Jo Swinson - is that are there really enough voters that are likely to think "I really don't want the Tories, so I'll vote Lib Dem" which by implication means they want PM Starmer?

    Why not just vote Labour then?

    Because they don't want Labour. Under FPTP we will end up with a Tory or Labour government of some form or another. Moderating those with other parties is what happens when people don't want either.
    Are there lots of voters like this? Bearing in mind the Tory majority?
    11.5% of the population in Dec 2019.
    And there could so easily have been 44 Lib Dem MPs, apparently.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    Lol.
    Three people who all discussed their support for the aims of Bernie Sanders, yet don't want now to vote for the people who are supporting riots and hounding people out of their jobs for expressing an opinion.

    It could be a big problem for the Democrats, the culture war stuff is very real and a backlash against the riots especially could be in Trump's favour if they continue.

    Kim Klacik's video about Baltimore has got 11m views in less than a week. She's the black, female Republican who's fed up living in a city where black people are being killed every day.

    All I'm saying is that it's not a foregone conclusion, as much as many people hope it is.
    You are right -- Trump vs Biden is not a foregone conclusion. But all the polling suggests that were the election held today, it would be a Biden landslide. The reason it is not a foregone conclusion is the election is not today and Trump has a little over two months to turn it round, starting with the GOP convention that begins today.
    He is going to be desperate to get the vaccine injected into Americans so he can hail ultimate victory over the virus before November.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,177
    Opposition doing opposition.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1297818812537081859

    Still surprising after all this time
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    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I cannot recall the CMOs having anything to do with Barnard Castle

    These people actively want to harm our children with their claptrap
    Perhaps Dr Van-Tam should lead on this, as he had the balls to effectively say Cummings was wrong and the rules did apply to him and his case?
    There is a much wider issue here than party politics

    All schools across the UK are going back full time, all the CMO's have endorsed it, and Sturgeon (SNP), Drakeford (Labour), Foster ( DUP) and Boris (Conservative) are at one, in demanding it

    And for once all the politicians are correct and I will hold no quarter with anyone who wants to interrupt the process and thereby damage a generation of our children
    We cannot know that the pols are correct - we have to hope that they are.
    They are correct in their determination to get schools back and this should not be a political divide
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    Layla being quizzed over her violent past.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    Lol.
    Three people who all discussed their support for the aims of Bernie Sanders, yet don't want now to vote for the people who are supporting riots and hounding people out of their jobs for expressing an opinion.

    It could be a big problem for the Democrats, the culture war stuff is very real and a backlash against the riots especially could be in Trump's favour if they continue.

    Kim Klacik's video about Baltimore has got 11m views in less than a week. She's the black, female Republican who's fed up living in a city where black people are being killed every day.

    All I'm saying is that it's not a foregone conclusion, as much as many people hope it is.
    In other news, Rush Limbaugh's a centrist.

    'After Sanders dropped out of the race, Rogan said he would "rather vote for Trump than Biden."'

    'Rubin is generally described as conservative and libertarian. He often describes himself as a "classical liberal."'

    'According to Politico, Pool's "views on issues including social media bias and immigration often align with conservatives'"
    Three natural Democrat voters with a media profile, none of whom are likely to vote for them this November...
    Punters who are only attracted to the Dems in the form of Sanders or Gabbard are not natural Democrat voters.

    None of them were ever going to vote for the Dems under Biden, therefore any suggestions they make about voters moving away from the Democrats cos of X fail the bullshit test.
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    No. That's Tim, a passionate Labour but not Corbynist person formerly of this parish.

    When he was here he was obsessed a bit with George Osborne whom he mocked as a great Strategist. After he left this site his Tweets kept getting quoted for a long time with names like GOsborneGenius.
    Why did he leave?
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    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    The cross of St Patrick remained, but it would be hard to justify keeping the Saltire.

    Perhaps a style like the white ensign, but with a Welsh flag in the top corner rather than a Union Flag?

    A number of other flags such as Austalia and NZ may want to update too.
    Conventionally the Australian Flag needs a referendum to change it. Australian PM John Howard got floored by a journalist on this.

    The back story: A minority of Australians want the flag changed as "the Union Flag represents the colonialist past". Howard always said that there needs to be a referendum if the flag were to be changed. The large star (the Federation Star) in the Australian flag has 7 points representing the 6 states and one point for all the territories. In 1998 or so Northern Territory had a territory-wide referendum whether to become a state. In the run up to the Northern Territory decision, the Journalist asked: If the Northern Territory becomes a state, will we be having a referendum just to put another point on the Federation Star?

    Howard realised that any quick answer would be putting his foot in it, and it was clear he had not even thought of this "problem", so he had not thought of how to approach answering it. He ended up just blustering "that's an interesting question".

    In this case kicking the can worked, as NT voted to remain a territory.
    If you've not thought of a question before then simply saying "that's an interesting question" isn't really blustering. Trying to fudge an answer is the usual bluster.

    John Howard's Republic referendum campaign was a model of how to deal with a referendum if you don't want it to pass. A strong monarchist he didn't want Australia to become a Republic but the issue was strongly supported by some so he got a political convention to agree what form of Republic Australia might take then out that to a Referendum versus the status quo. Leading to people picking holes in the model chosen.

    The difference between that and a simple referendum on the status quo with no alternative pre chosen like Cameron did is immense. Cameron really should have spoken to John Howard for advice pre Brexit referendum.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894
    Morning all 😀

    While I no longer have “skin in the game” as the Americans would say, I hope Ed Davey wins.

    The May 2021 elections will be a useful test of opinion albeit they will be “local” contests with all the associated caveats. The County contests in some areas may be deferred if proposed local Government reforms are enacted.

    The equivalent elections in 2017 were at the high water mark of Theresa May’s popularity so there may be some problems for the Conservatives defending some of those gains.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:


    I think the main Presidential race is closer than most people think.

    Completely disagree.
    Last time round Clinton was rated 85% or so https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/category/democratic-nomination/hillary-clinton/page/2/

    This time round, Biden is rated around 55% or so. I think 538's model is more correct than people give it credit for, and immediately prior to the election Clinton (And Biden now) are both rated around 73%.

    The markets have gone from underestimating Trump last time round to overestimating him this time round. It's precisely the same sort of reasoning that landed big value on the Tories in 2019, and I said so prior to the election in my piece.

    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/11/11/a-brexit-carol-how-last-time-is-shaping-the-view-of-ge2019/
    There's a disparity between the recent polling and the betting markets. I think the betting markets are more accurate, and there's a shy Republican effect in the polling.
    The betting markets are spooked by 2016.
    Just as ours were spooked by 2017
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Scott_xP said:
    I cannot recall the CMOs having anything to do with Barnard Castle

    These people actively want to harm our children with their claptrap
    Perhaps Dr Van-Tam should lead on this, as he had the balls to effectively say Cummings was wrong and the rules did apply to him and his case?
    There is a much wider issue here than party politics

    All schools across the UK are going back full time, all the CMO's have endorsed it, and Sturgeon (SNP), Drakeford (Labour), Foster ( DUP) and Boris (Conservative) are at one, in demanding it

    And for once all the politicians are correct and I will hold no quarter with anyone who wants to interrupt the process and thereby damage a generation of our children
    How you can type a list of XYZ as surnames and then Boris is beyond me, it’s disrespectful to XYZ as a minimum. It’s possibly understandable to refer to Johnson as Boris when only talking about him but not in conjunction with others.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    edited August 2020

    No. That's Tim, a passionate Labour but not Corbynist person formerly of this parish.

    When he was here he was obsessed a bit with George Osborne whom he mocked as a great Strategist. After he left this site his Tweets kept getting quoted for a long time with names like GOsborneGenius.
    Why did he leave?
    Doxxed by a multi identity PBer.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,823

    No. That's Tim, a passionate Labour but not Corbynist person formerly of this parish.

    When he was here he was obsessed a bit with George Osborne whom he mocked as a great Strategist. After he left this site his Tweets kept getting quoted for a long time with names like GOsborneGenius.
    Why did he leave?
    He was doxxed.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:


    I think the main Presidential race is closer than most people think.

    Completely disagree.
    Last time round Clinton was rated 85% or so https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/category/democratic-nomination/hillary-clinton/page/2/

    This time round, Biden is rated around 55% or so. I think 538's model is more correct than people give it credit for, and immediately prior to the election Clinton (And Biden now) are both rated around 73%.

    The markets have gone from underestimating Trump last time round to overestimating him this time round. It's precisely the same sort of reasoning that landed big value on the Tories in 2019, and I said so prior to the election in my piece.

    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/11/11/a-brexit-carol-how-last-time-is-shaping-the-view-of-ge2019/
    There's a disparity between the recent polling and the betting markets. I think the betting markets are more accurate, and there's a shy Republican effect in the polling.
    The "Shy Trump" effect might be underestimating the Republicans in the polls, but I cannot see it bringing Trump more votes than in 2016, because almost all "Shy Trumpers" were also "Trumpers" shy or not in 2016.

    If the Dems can get all the "natural democrat voters" who abstained in 2016 in four or five key states to vote, then Biden should win it. But I do agree with one poster below (sorry I forget who), the campaign should now start attracting the central floating voters as well, as they shouldn't just rely on the 2016-stay-at-homers.
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    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Counterfactual: what if Farron had lost to Normal Lamb in 2015? He would likely not have been forced out post 2017, and had a much more nuanced view on the EU. Might the LibDems have managed a more meaningful recovery in the intervening period?

    In Dec 2019, the Lib Dems got 11.5% of the vote, up 4.2%, the best result since 2010. In the Euros they came second nationally. Obviously not good enough in FPTP, but a start of a meaningful recovery. There are a lot of potential LD voters out there.

    I voted Lamb in 2015, and Davey in 2019, so don't have a great track record in backing the right candidate. I voted Davey again.
    History would suggest Foxy that maybe you do have a great track record in backing the right candidate to be fair. Maybe the issue is your fellow members haven't backed the right candidate previously?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    Simply substituting welsh green for Scottish blue might be the way to go with a reformed union flag. Unlike Scotland, Northern Ireland and England there's never been an explicitly welsh element to the Union flag as it was folded up into the Kingdom of England which bore the St George's cross.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,823

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Counterfactual: what if Farron had lost to Normal Lamb in 2015? He would likely not have been forced out post 2017, and had a much more nuanced view on the EU. Might the LibDems have managed a more meaningful recovery in the intervening period?

    In Dec 2019, the Lib Dems got 11.5% of the vote, up 4.2%, the best result since 2010. In the Euros they came second nationally. Obviously not good enough in FPTP, but a start of a meaningful recovery. There are a lot of potential LD voters out there.

    I voted Lamb in 2015, and Davey in 2019, so don't have a great track record in backing the right candidate. I voted Davey again.
    History would suggest Foxy that maybe you do have a great track record in backing the right candidate to be fair. Maybe the issue is your fellow members haven't backed the right candidate previously?
    I find that I have the same problem at General Elections too...
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    Why would you doxx somebody? What a prat
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    Scott_xP said:

    Opposition doing opposition.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1297818812537081859

    Still surprising after all this time

    Labour wanting blank cheques and ongoing spending?

    What could be less surprising?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    No. That's Tim, a passionate Labour but not Corbynist person formerly of this parish.

    When he was here he was obsessed a bit with George Osborne whom he mocked as a great Strategist. After he left this site his Tweets kept getting quoted for a long time with names like GOsborneGenius.
    tim, not Tim.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912
    edited August 2020
    stodge said:

    Morning all 😀

    While I no longer have “skin in the game” as the Americans would say, I hope Ed Davey wins.

    Wow, that euphemisism could be taken several ways. Some overexcited types might even call it anti-islamic and/or anti-semitic.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,094
    Pulpstar said:

    Simply substituting welsh green for Scottish blue might be the way to go with a reformed union flag. Unlike Scotland, Northern Ireland and England there's never been an explicitly welsh element to the Union flag as it was folded up into the Kingdom of England which bore the St George's cross.

    What would a cross of St Andrew with a green background symbolise?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,823
    Summer holiday on the Wight looking a bit grey and drizzly.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,094

    Scott_xP said:

    Opposition doing opposition.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1297818812537081859

    Still surprising after all this time

    Labour wanting blank cheques and ongoing spending?

    What could be less surprising?
    The magic money tree is mainstream now. It’s currently being violently milked by the Tory government.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894
    @Sandpit references the Kim Klacik video and it is of course compelling though it’s long on problems and very short on practical solutions.

    I’m in Newham and most local elections we get a local man or woman who rails against Labour control and blames the Council for everything that’s wrong and stands as a Conservative and gets squashed.

    It’s not just about problems (that’s easy) but the one-sided portrayal of those problems. Is the Labour run Council responsible for Newham’s problems? Yes but you also have to blame successive Westminster Governments for changes to legislation and cuts in funding as well as successive London Mayors.

    The trouble is if you blame the Party under whose flag you now wish to get elected for the very real problems you are trying to resolve, you won’t get very far.

    Independents can do this at local level but ultimately in an adversarial political environment blaming everyone without having any solutions is futile.

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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368

    eek said:



    Did many shops transfer out of the high street onto Teesside Park? I know this happened in Sheffield, but from what I could see Stockton had different shops anyway. To wrap up my comments on this we then had the hoo hah about hotels. Boro has chain hotels in the centre of town, with demand outstripping supply. Stockton - in the middle of a massive regeneration of the town centre - decides to build a chain hotel in the town centre.

    No say the Thornaby Independents, put the hotel on Teesside Park (cos its in Thornaby). Never mind that it would be in the middle of nowhere and wouldn't help with regeneration it had to be in OUR town. Cos apparently Thornaby folk don't cross the bridge into Stockton as there's Trolls under it.

    I'll shut up now. Did I say that I hate local politics?

    Teesside Park took the customers away then over time the shops disappear.

    As for the hotel that Hilton us a white elephant. As someone who travels a lot it fails every rule when I'm picking a hotel for work - I won't drive into a town centre for a hotel and I can't think of anyone else who would.

    To a large extent it reminds me of an old Travelodge I used once in Wakefield. It closed during Travelodges first set of closures as no one would drive to a town centre hotel.

    And yet just 2 miles away the demand for town centre hotels is such that they opened a Premier Inn literally next to the Jurys Inn which is across from the Holiday Inn Express. I stay in a lot of urban hotels - would rather be near somewhere than out of town.
    I agree - why would you visit a town and deliberately stay somewhere outside it? Unless parking is the issue, I don't get it at all.
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,177
    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/1297822857628651521

    "Senior Tories" want Richard Leonard to resign to save BoZo's job, when in fact to save the Union BoZo should quit.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    The cross of St Patrick remained, but it would be hard to justify keeping the Saltire.

    Perhaps a style like the white ensign, but with a Welsh flag in the top corner rather than a Union Flag?

    A number of other flags such as Austalia and NZ may want to update too.
    Conventionally the Australian Flag needs a referendum to change it. Australian PM John Howard got floored by a journalist on this.

    The back story: A minority of Australians want the flag changed as "the Union Flag represents the colonialist past". Howard always said that there needs to be a referendum if the flag were to be changed. The large star (the Federation Star) in the Australian flag has 7 points representing the 6 states and one point for all the territories. In 1998 or so Northern Territory had a territory-wide referendum whether to become a state. In the run up to the Northern Territory decision, the Journalist asked: If the Northern Territory becomes a state, will we be having a referendum just to put another point on the Federation Star?

    Howard realised that any quick answer would be putting his foot in it, and it was clear he had not even thought of this "problem", so he had not thought of how to approach answering it. He ended up just blustering "that's an interesting question".

    In this case kicking the can worked, as NT voted to remain a territory.
    If you've not thought of a question before then simply saying "that's an interesting question" isn't really blustering. Trying to fudge an answer is the usual bluster.

    John Howard's Republic referendum campaign was a model of how to deal with a referendum if you don't want it to pass. A strong monarchist he didn't want Australia to become a Republic but the issue was strongly supported by some so he got a political convention to agree what form of Republic Australia might take then out that to a Referendum versus the status quo. Leading to people picking holes in the model chosen.

    The difference between that and a simple referendum on the status quo with no alternative pre chosen like Cameron did is immense. Cameron really should have spoken to John Howard for advice pre Brexit referendum.
    I totally agree with your comment on the Australian Republic/Monacrhy referendum, and I have posted exatly this several times on PB in the past.
    I saw it first hand, as I was living in Australia, in Howard's constituency, at that time.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    eristdoof said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:


    I think the main Presidential race is closer than most people think.

    Completely disagree.
    Last time round Clinton was rated 85% or so https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/category/democratic-nomination/hillary-clinton/page/2/

    This time round, Biden is rated around 55% or so. I think 538's model is more correct than people give it credit for, and immediately prior to the election Clinton (And Biden now) are both rated around 73%.

    The markets have gone from underestimating Trump last time round to overestimating him this time round. It's precisely the same sort of reasoning that landed big value on the Tories in 2019, and I said so prior to the election in my piece.

    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/11/11/a-brexit-carol-how-last-time-is-shaping-the-view-of-ge2019/
    There's a disparity between the recent polling and the betting markets. I think the betting markets are more accurate, and there's a shy Republican effect in the polling.
    The "Shy Trump" effect might be underestimating the Republicans in the polls, but I cannot see it bringing Trump more votes than in 2016, because almost all "Shy Trumpers" were also "Trumpers" shy or not in 2016.

    If the Dems can get all the "natural democrat voters" who abstained in 2016 in four or five key states to vote, then Biden should win it. But I do agree with one poster below (sorry I forget who), the campaign should now start attracting the central floating voters as well, as they shouldn't just rely on the 2016-stay-at-homers.
    Agreed. The Trump victory last time was much closer in reality than it was in the EC, with several states going red by very small margins.

    If Biden can get out a few percent of those who didn't vote in marginal states last time, rather than vote for Hillary, he's the clear favorite. The largest single target demographic in the US election is the stayed-at-home-in-2016 voter, for both campaigns.
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    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/1297822857628651521

    "Senior Tories" want Richard Leonard to resign to save BoZo's job, when in fact to save the Union BoZo should quit.

    Labour needs to run a million miles from any kind of deal or pact with the Tories in Scotland
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368
    How far are these local elections actually happening? They're being cancelled in Surrey, the excuse being that they're thinking about local government reform, and the same reform is being rolled out across England next month, abolishing borough councils. Won't they cancell all the other shire elections in England while they're at it?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2020
    eristdoof said:

    eristdoof said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    What will become of the Union Jack if Scotland secedes? It’s a cracking flag.

    Maybe the blue can be taken out and the green of Wales finally added.

    The cross of St Patrick remained, but it would be hard to justify keeping the Saltire.

    Perhaps a style like the white ensign, but with a Welsh flag in the top corner rather than a Union Flag?

    A number of other flags such as Austalia and NZ may want to update too.
    Conventionally the Australian Flag needs a referendum to change it. Australian PM John Howard got floored by a journalist on this.

    The back story: A minority of Australians want the flag changed as "the Union Flag represents the colonialist past". Howard always said that there needs to be a referendum if the flag were to be changed. The large star (the Federation Star) in the Australian flag has 7 points representing the 6 states and one point for all the territories. In 1998 or so Northern Territory had a territory-wide referendum whether to become a state. In the run up to the Northern Territory decision, the Journalist asked: If the Northern Territory becomes a state, will we be having a referendum just to put another point on the Federation Star?

    Howard realised that any quick answer would be putting his foot in it, and it was clear he had not even thought of this "problem", so he had not thought of how to approach answering it. He ended up just blustering "that's an interesting question".

    In this case kicking the can worked, as NT voted to remain a territory.
    If you've not thought of a question before then simply saying "that's an interesting question" isn't really blustering. Trying to fudge an answer is the usual bluster.

    John Howard's Republic referendum campaign was a model of how to deal with a referendum if you don't want it to pass. A strong monarchist he didn't want Australia to become a Republic but the issue was strongly supported by some so he got a political convention to agree what form of Republic Australia might take then out that to a Referendum versus the status quo. Leading to people picking holes in the model chosen.

    The difference between that and a simple referendum on the status quo with no alternative pre chosen like Cameron did is immense. Cameron really should have spoken to John Howard for advice pre Brexit referendum.
    I totally agree with your comment on the Australian Republic/Monacrhy referendum, and I have posted exatly this several times on PB in the past.
    I saw it first hand, as I was living in Australia, in Howard's constituency, at that time.
    Oh that's a funny coincidence. I was living in Victoria at the time so saw it first hand too.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894
    eristdoof said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all 😀

    While I no longer have “skin in the game” as the Americans would say, I hope Ed Davey wins.

    Wow, that euphemisism could be taken several ways. Some overexcited types might even call it anti-islamic and/or anti-semitic.
    No, it’s an aphorism widely used in business, finance, gaming and politics .

    If it has other cultural connotations, I am completely unaware of them.
  • Options
    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912
    Foxy said:

    Summer holiday on the Wight looking a bit grey and drizzly.

    You need a well earned holiday, so stay away from PB for the duration! I hope have a great time.
  • Options

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I cannot recall the CMOs having anything to do with Barnard Castle

    These people actively want to harm our children with their claptrap
    Perhaps Dr Van-Tam should lead on this, as he had the balls to effectively say Cummings was wrong and the rules did apply to him and his case?
    There is a much wider issue here than party politics

    All schools across the UK are going back full time, all the CMO's have endorsed it, and Sturgeon (SNP), Drakeford (Labour), Foster ( DUP) and Boris (Conservative) are at one, in demanding it

    And for once all the politicians are correct and I will hold no quarter with anyone who wants to interrupt the process and thereby damage a generation of our children
    We cannot know that the pols are correct - we have to hope that they are.
    They are correct in their determination to get schools back and this should not be a political divide
    But the responsible authorities for England seem to be answering the wrong question; I don't know about the others.

    The key thing about reopening schools fully is all the boring stuff. How do you get kids and staff to and from school. How closely sealed do the bubbles have to be? (Extending the primary model of one teacher with one class all the time is the most biosecure, normally secondaries have a jumble of different classes with different teachers; what's the right compromise?) What do you do about resources and marking? How do you handle staff and pupil absence? Changing for PE lessons? Local shutdowns? Masks or no masks?

    All of these questions have answers, of a sort. Not perfect, but reasonable compromises. The trouble is that this government governs in primary colours, hates boring detail and resents being questioned. So those answers don't really exist, in England anyway. Rather than a coherent plan, we have something that has the potential to fall apart in about week 3, if not the first time a cheeky Year 9 starts coughing in a lesson and saying they've suddenly lost their sense of smell. Coupled with the usual sloganising. Because slogans is what this government does best.

    And those who point this out get accused of wanting to damage a generation of our children.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,029
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/KennyFarq/status/1297822857628651521

    "Senior Tories" want Richard Leonard to resign to save BoZo's job, when in fact to save the Union BoZo should quit.

    If anybody really cares about saving 𝑶𝑼𝑹 𝑷𝑹𝑬𝑪𝑰𝑶𝑼𝑺 𝑼𝑵𝑰𝑶𝑵 then they should concentrate on getting Johnson out by any means necessary.

    Winning Indyref is a lot more difficult with anybody other than that indolent and malignant toad squatting in No. 10.

    Except Gove obviously.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    Foxy said:

    Summer holiday on the Wight looking a bit grey and drizzly.

    I was there a couple of weeks ago with just the faintest breeze and we were only just able to get under sail.

    That said, just back from a week in Turkey. Fantastic. Super-hot, slight wobble when "Croatia Today" somehow thought that both Turkey and Croatia were due to be included on the quarantine list but all was well in the end.

    Bollocks to staycations.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    Sandpit said:

    a number of independent and left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    The edgelord demographic is much less prevalent in the general population than they are on Twitter.

    Biden's super-power is ignoring these people and going straight to the actual swing voters, like elderly white people in the mid-west and educated suburban conservatives.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    Lol.
    Three people who all discussed their support for the aims of Bernie Sanders, yet don't want now to vote for the people who are supporting riots and hounding people out of their jobs for expressing an opinion.

    It could be a big problem for the Democrats, the culture war stuff is very real and a backlash against the riots especially could be in Trump's favour if they continue.

    Kim Klacik's video about Baltimore has got 11m views in less than a week. She's the black, female Republican who's fed up living in a city where black people are being killed every day.

    All I'm saying is that it's not a foregone conclusion, as much as many people hope it is.
    You are right -- Trump vs Biden is not a foregone conclusion. But all the polling suggests that were the election held today, it would be a Biden landslide. The reason it is not a foregone conclusion is the election is not today and Trump has a little over two months to turn it round, starting with the GOP convention that begins today.
    He is going to be desperate to get the vaccine injected into Americans so he can hail ultimate victory over the virus before November.
    From Trump's point of view the ideal timing would be long enough before the election to start a modest vaccination programme in most states, but not so early that vaccinated people start getting COVID-19 because the vaccine has been rushed through at break-neck speed.
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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176
    Pulpstar said:

    Simply substituting welsh green for Scottish blue might be the way to go with a reformed union flag. Unlike Scotland, Northern Ireland and England there's never been an explicitly welsh element to the Union flag as it was folded up into the Kingdom of England which bore the St George's cross.

    The blue is important for the look of the flag imo. If Scotland secedes it should remain there. It would also remind us of the factual history. Wouldn't iScotland be a member of the Commonwealth?
    The flag of Hawaii keeps the union flag in the corner.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894

    How far are these local elections actually happening? They're being cancelled in Surrey, the excuse being that they're thinking about local government reform, and the same reform is being rolled out across England next month, abolishing borough councils. Won't they cancell all the other shire elections in England while they're at it?

    I would presume where the two tier structure still operates they will be cancelled pending restructure into either a small number of unitaries or a single Mega-Council.

    Where this has happened I don’t see why elections can’t proceed as scheduled,
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    Lol.
    Three people who all discussed their support for the aims of Bernie Sanders, yet don't want now to vote for the people who are supporting riots and hounding people out of their jobs for expressing an opinion.

    It could be a big problem for the Democrats, the culture war stuff is very real and a backlash against the riots especially could be in Trump's favour if they continue.

    Kim Klacik's video about Baltimore has got 11m views in less than a week. She's the black, female Republican who's fed up living in a city where black people are being killed every day.

    All I'm saying is that it's not a foregone conclusion, as much as many people hope it is.
    You are right -- Trump vs Biden is not a foregone conclusion. But all the polling suggests that were the election held today, it would be a Biden landslide. The reason it is not a foregone conclusion is the election is not today and Trump has a little over two months to turn it round, starting with the GOP convention that begins today.
    He is going to be desperate to get the vaccine injected into Americans so he can hail ultimate victory over the virus before November.
    Will bleach do?
    Or maybe V. Putin could supply millions of doses of his untested vaccine?
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912
    stodge said:

    eristdoof said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all 😀

    While I no longer have “skin in the game” as the Americans would say, I hope Ed Davey wins.

    Wow, that euphemisism could be taken several ways. Some overexcited types might even call it anti-islamic and/or anti-semitic.
    No, it’s an aphorism widely used in business, finance, gaming and politics .

    If it has other cultural connotations, I am completely unaware of them.
    I can guess what it is supposed to mean. But there are many other examples of sayings/aphorisms/euphemisms/acronyms turning into double entendres.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    Scott_xP said:
    And so we lockdown Aberdeen. Yes, that makes sense.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    Lol.
    Three people who all discussed their support for the aims of Bernie Sanders, yet don't want now to vote for the people who are supporting riots and hounding people out of their jobs for expressing an opinion.

    It could be a big problem for the Democrats, the culture war stuff is very real and a backlash against the riots especially could be in Trump's favour if they continue.

    Kim Klacik's video about Baltimore has got 11m views in less than a week. She's the black, female Republican who's fed up living in a city where black people are being killed every day.

    All I'm saying is that it's not a foregone conclusion, as much as many people hope it is.
    You are right -- Trump vs Biden is not a foregone conclusion. But all the polling suggests that were the election held today, it would be a Biden landslide. The reason it is not a foregone conclusion is the election is not today and Trump has a little over two months to turn it round, starting with the GOP convention that begins today.
    He is going to be desperate to get the vaccine injected into Americans so he can hail ultimate victory over the virus before November.
    Will bleach do?
    Or maybe V. Putin could supply millions of doses of his untested vaccine?
    The latter would be preferable, as the negatives of injecting bleach become apparent somewhat sooner.
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912
    Scott_xP said:
    That map is meaningless without knowing the underlying numbers.
    The +100% areas could be moving from 1 to 2 cases, while the -50% areas could be moving from 500 to 250 cases.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    This doesn't sound good. 17 staff and two pupils test positive for C-19 in Dundee school which re-opened a fortnight ago.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8658065/Huge-Covid-outbreak-shuts-Dundee-school-17-staff-test-positive.html
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    edited August 2020
    .
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    left-leaning commentators (the likes of Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin and Tim Pool)

    Lol.
    Three people who all discussed their support for the aims of Bernie Sanders, yet don't want now to vote for the people who are supporting riots and hounding people out of their jobs for expressing an opinion.

    It could be a big problem for the Democrats, the culture war stuff is very real and a backlash against the riots especially could be in Trump's favour if they continue.

    Kim Klacik's video about Baltimore has got 11m views in less than a week. She's the black, female Republican who's fed up living in a city where black people are being killed every day.

    All I'm saying is that it's not a foregone conclusion, as much as many people hope it is.
    In other news, Rush Limbaugh's a centrist.

    'After Sanders dropped out of the race, Rogan said he would "rather vote for Trump than Biden."'

    'Rubin is generally described as conservative and libertarian. He often describes himself as a "classical liberal."'

    'According to Politico, Pool's "views on issues including social media bias and immigration often align with conservatives'"
    Three natural Democrat voters with a media profile, none of whom are likely to vote for them this November...
    Joe Rogan is hardly a "natural Democrat voter".
    (Wikipedia)
    He endorsed Ron Paul in the 2012 U.S. presidential campaign[87] and Gary Johnson in the 2016 U.S. presidential campaign.[88] Rogan has publicly supported Tulsi Gabbard and encouraged her to run for U.S. presidency in 2020.[89] On January 21, 2020, Rogan said he would "probably" vote for Bernie Sanders in the 2020 Democratic primary, adding, "He's been insanely consistent his entire life."[90] After Sanders dropped out of the race, Rogan said he would "rather vote for Trump than Biden."...

    I'll have a look at the other two, but so far, natural flake seems more accurate.

    (edit) Flake no.2
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Rubin#Political_commentary
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:
    And so we lockdown Aberdeen. Yes, that makes sense.
    We could lockdown Angus if you'd prefer?
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    Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 13,791

    Scott_xP said:

    Opposition doing opposition.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1297818812537081859

    Still surprising after all this time

    Labour wanting blank cheques and ongoing spending?

    What could be less surprising?
    The magic money tree is mainstream now. It’s currently being violently milked by the Tory government.
    Is it possible to milk a tree? I expect BoZo thinks so!
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912
    geoffw said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Simply substituting welsh green for Scottish blue might be the way to go with a reformed union flag. Unlike Scotland, Northern Ireland and England there's never been an explicitly welsh element to the Union flag as it was folded up into the Kingdom of England which bore the St George's cross.

    The blue is important for the look of the flag imo. If Scotland secedes it should remain there. It would also remind us of the factual history. Wouldn't iScotland be a member of the Commonwealth?
    The flag of Hawaii keeps the union flag in the corner.
    My feeling is most English would agree with you, even if for some the motivation would be to annoy the Scotts. Everyone seemed quite happy to keep the St.Patrick part of the Union Flag when the remaining Irish part of the UK adopted the Ulster Banner.

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    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,176

    Scott_xP said:

    Opposition doing opposition.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1297818812537081859

    Still surprising after all this time

    Labour wanting blank cheques and ongoing spending?

    What could be less surprising?
    The magic money tree is mainstream now. It’s currently being violently milked by the Tory government.
    Is it possible to milk a tree? I expect BoZo thinks so!
    Latex Rubber Milk
    https://hobbii.co.uk/latex-gummimaelk-hvid-250-ml
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912

    Scott_xP said:

    Opposition doing opposition.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1297818812537081859

    Still surprising after all this time

    Labour wanting blank cheques and ongoing spending?

    What could be less surprising?
    The magic money tree is mainstream now. It’s currently being violently milked by the Tory government.
    Is it possible to milk a tree? I expect BoZo thinks so!
    If it's a magic tree there is no reason why it can't be milked. It is also a homing tree, so you can sell it for millions and then it flies back home.
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    Sandpit said:

    This doesn't sound good. 17 staff and two pupils test positive for C-19 in Dundee school which re-opened a fortnight ago.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8658065/Huge-Covid-outbreak-shuts-Dundee-school-17-staff-test-positive.html

    Alarming for the people of Dundee, and I hope they get well soon, but it highlights the problem.

    Statistically, the risk of catching Covid in schools is low, because in most places there's not much Covid to catch right now. But anyone who has experience of schools knows that they are places where germs spread really easily. And there are lots of schools, so the chances of school outbreaks somewhere are really high.

    That doesn't mean that schools should all remain closed. But it does mean that the contingency measures need to be really robust, and there's little evidence that they are.

    (Actually, the failure to realise that a good overall average can include some personally disastrous individual data is the blind spot that led to the exam grades disaster.)
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    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I cannot recall the CMOs having anything to do with Barnard Castle

    These people actively want to harm our children with their claptrap
    Perhaps Dr Van-Tam should lead on this, as he had the balls to effectively say Cummings was wrong and the rules did apply to him and his case?
    There is a much wider issue here than party politics

    All schools across the UK are going back full time, all the CMO's have endorsed it, and Sturgeon (SNP), Drakeford (Labour), Foster ( DUP) and Boris (Conservative) are at one, in demanding it

    And for once all the politicians are correct and I will hold no quarter with anyone who wants to interrupt the process and thereby damage a generation of our children
    We cannot know that the pols are correct - we have to hope that they are.
    They are correct in their determination to get schools back and this should not be a political divide
    But the responsible authorities for England seem to be answering the wrong question; I don't know about the others.

    The key thing about reopening schools fully is all the boring stuff. How do you get kids and staff to and from school. How closely sealed do the bubbles have to be? (Extending the primary model of one teacher with one class all the time is the most biosecure, normally secondaries have a jumble of different classes with different teachers; what's the right compromise?) What do you do about resources and marking? How do you handle staff and pupil absence? Changing for PE lessons? Local shutdowns? Masks or no masks?

    All of these questions have answers, of a sort. Not perfect, but reasonable compromises. The trouble is that this government governs in primary colours, hates boring detail and resents being questioned. So those answers don't really exist, in England anyway. Rather than a coherent plan, we have something that has the potential to fall apart in about week 3, if not the first time a cheeky Year 9 starts coughing in a lesson and saying they've suddenly lost their sense of smell. Coupled with the usual sloganising. Because slogans is what this government does best.

    And those who point this out get accused of wanting to damage a generation of our children.
    You need to trust the teachers and head teachers more.

    Schools have myriads of configuration issues and it simply impossible to think HMG should intervene in matters that those running the schools have the actual knowledge of
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,871
    geoffw said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Simply substituting welsh green for Scottish blue might be the way to go with a reformed union flag. Unlike Scotland, Northern Ireland and England there's never been an explicitly welsh element to the Union flag as it was folded up into the Kingdom of England which bore the St George's cross.

    The blue is important for the look of the flag imo. If Scotland secedes it should remain there. It would also remind us of the factual history. Wouldn't iScotland be a member of the Commonwealth?
    The flag of Hawaii keeps the union flag in the corner.
    This will be another passports issue wont it. Yes let our governments forget about, you know actually planning to deal with an ever more chaotic international environment, the incredible technological changes that are already happening in bioscience and those that are needed for the environment. Lets focus our political debates on colours of passports and flags.

    This will probably get more attention and emotion, than discussing gene editing and how it can and should be regulated.
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    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Counterfactual: what if Farron had lost to Normal Lamb in 2015? He would likely not have been forced out post 2017, and had a much more nuanced view on the EU. Might the LibDems have managed a more meaningful recovery in the intervening period?

    In Dec 2019, the Lib Dems got 11.5% of the vote, up 4.2%, the best result since 2010. In the Euros they came second nationally. Obviously not good enough in FPTP, but a start of a meaningful recovery. There are a lot of potential LD voters out there.

    I voted Lamb in 2015, and Davey in 2019, so don't have a great track record in backing the right candidate. I voted Davey again.
    History would suggest Foxy that maybe you do have a great track record in backing the right candidate to be fair. Maybe the issue is your fellow members haven't backed the right candidate previously?
    I find that I have the same problem at General Elections too...
    Touché!
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797
    stodge said:

    eristdoof said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all 😀

    While I no longer have “skin in the game” as the Americans would say, I hope Ed Davey wins.

    Wow, that euphemisism could be taken several ways. Some overexcited types might even call it anti-islamic and/or anti-semitic.
    No, it’s an aphorism widely used in business, finance, gaming and politics .

    If it has other cultural connotations, I am completely unaware of them.
    Horse racing origin, apparently:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_in_the_game_(phrase)
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    eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,912
    Sandpit said:

    This doesn't sound good. 17 staff and two pupils test positive for C-19 in Dundee school which re-opened a fortnight ago.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8658065/Huge-Covid-outbreak-shuts-Dundee-school-17-staff-test-positive.html

    I would imagine the staff to pupil ratio to be the other way round, around 1:10 so that is a huge discrepancy in the infection rate between teachers and pupils.

    If after testing the whole school, the positive staff to pupil ratio stays that high, the medics/virologists/epidemiologists need to get stuck into "why".
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