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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited August 2020
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    So the BBC keeps reporting stories of how people who'd been told they'd missed out on university places (pre u turn) now being told their university places have been confirmed after all. Despite the fact that I was very confidently being told by @eek and others that it was too late for a u turn and all the universities would be full already. Doesn't look like that's the case at all.

    The u turn was the right thing to do. Glad it happened and good to see all these young people getting into their university of choice and not missing out because "computer says no".

    Indeed. Just a shame it took a fortnight for what was relatively obvious to sink in; meanwhile thousands of 18-year-olds were left hanging while ministers slagged off Scottish ministers for recognising the same inevitability a lot more swiftly.
    It took the UK Government exactly the same amount of time as the Scottish Government to do the U turn. Of course in Scotland the u turn was fantastic, in England it is terrible.
    You'd hope politicians would be able to learn from what they see happening around them, and from those that have gone before.
    But they have learnt, they know now they can get away with anything from incompetence to lining their friends and donors pockets with public money.
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,819
    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:
    Pretty depressing!

    I do wonder about the US comparisons though. Over there 50%+ of older people are Republicans. They (on average) don't think the virus is such a big deal.

    Here in the UK at least, older people seem pretty scared, so perhaps they will continue to see people less and so protect themselves.
    I’d add that thus far our infection rates have remained much lower than in the US. With sensible measures, they should stay so.
    Until there’s a vaccine, we’re not returning to normal, but if we’re sensible, life should be liveable.
    According to the most recent open source information I can find (here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/07/oxford-vaccine-enters-final-phase-of-covid-19-trials-in-brazil-cvd/ ), despite the delays caused by not having enough infections in those being tested (which is in all other respects wonderful news), the rollout to Brazil now implies that they'll have enough data on the OxChAd1 vaccine "by November." With, if positive, regulatory approval coming rapidly afterwards and rollout of mass vaccination (thanks to them beginning mass production nearly two months ago on the assumption of success) shortly after that.

    IF successful. Still a big assumption, even if all signs have been pretty positive so far - but if this timeline is followed, and the trials are successful, we should have the data in 11-15 weeks from now, with the rest coming within weeks after that.

    Of course, production and administration of enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone in the UK will take significant time, but simply knowing that it's there, it's coming, and there's a fixed timetable for things to get resolved would be marvellous for a lot of people.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It was Ofqual who made the appointment and even the Guardian says Gove had nothing to do with it

    G do you ever see the venality of these crooks, how blind can Tories be to worship these crooks to such a level.
    I worship nobody.

    Ofqual are an independent quango and as such are responsible for who they appoint.

    Apparently they explained the appointment but of course the government opponents will always be looking for conspiracies
    G, you are not stupid, these quangos are never independent, they are stuffed to bursting and run by the parties chums. Cummings / Bozo will have been pulling the strings for certain.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,613
    edited August 2020

    BBC

    Big rises in numbers getting high grades in key subjects

    I think we can safely predict a row at about the same time next year over all the usual things, plus some new ones we haven't thought of yet plus questions related to fairness and parity of results between the cohort (not) examined in 2020 and the cohorts examined or otherwise in 2021. It should keep the Guardian and BBC going for some time. Plus the usual opportunities for pics of pretty girls lamenting, protesting, celebrating, jumping up and down and so on but extended over weeks not days.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    malcolmg said:

    nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:


    The rumour is that the ‘camping holiday’ story put about by Boris is actually fake.
    No way is the famously undomesticated lardarse camping with a 3 month old baby and dog amongst the midges.
    Its amazing how people think he should not be allowed a holiday. he nearly died in April and came striaght back to work.
    What evidence is there that he nearly died? Moving the current PM into ICU was a good arse covering move by the hospital who wouldn’t want him dying on them. Yes he deserves a holiday after the crisis is over, if he’s not up to it he should move over and let someone who is take over.
    The New Zealand nurse who treated him confirmed how ill he was, but hey he just got admitted to ICU for fun!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/new-zealand-nurse-i-treated-boris-johnson-like-any-other-patient
    You are easily taken in, do you expect them to come out and say we rolled out the red carpet, he had nurses at his beck and call 24 hours a day. I have a few bridges going cheap , give me a call.
    You are one sad man if you think his illness was made up. He still does not look right.
    I said he was not near death, he was obviously ill , possibly quite ill but far from death.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,427
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It was Ofqual who made the appointment and even the Guardian says Gove had nothing to do with it

    G do you ever see the venality of these crooks, how blind can Tories be to worship these crooks to such a level.
    I worship nobody.

    Ofqual are an independent quango and as such are responsible for who they appoint.

    Apparently they explained the appointment but of course the government opponents will always be looking for conspiracies
    G, you are not stupid, these quangos are never independent, they are stuffed to bursting and run by the parties chums. Cummings / Bozo will have been pulling the strings for certain.
    My instinct that this government's sleaze and cronyism will, by the end of its term, be seen for what it is, as during the Major era.
  • Options
    algarkirk said:

    BBC

    Big rises in numbers getting high grades in key subjects

    I think we can safely predict a row at about the same time next year over questions related to fairness and parity of results between the cohort (not) examined in 2020 and the cohorts examined or otherwise in 2021. It should keep the Guardian and BBC going for some time.
    I have a real personal concern as it could directly affect my granddaughter
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,148
    algarkirk said:

    I think we can safely predict a row at about the same time next year over questions related to fairness and parity of results between the cohort (not) examined in 2020 and the cohorts examined or otherwise in 2021. It should keep the Guardian and BBC going for some time.

    Next year's cohort also lost 6 months of schooling. That has to have an impact.
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:
    Pretty depressing!

    I do wonder about the US comparisons though. Over there 50%+ of older people are Republicans. They (on average) don't think the virus is such a big deal.

    Here in the UK at least, older people seem pretty scared, so perhaps they will continue to see people less and so protect themselves.
    I’d add that thus far our infection rates have remained much lower than in the US. With sensible measures, they should stay so.
    Until there’s a vaccine, we’re not returning to normal, but if we’re sensible, life should be liveable.
    According to the most recent open source information I can find (here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/07/oxford-vaccine-enters-final-phase-of-covid-19-trials-in-brazil-cvd/ ), despite the delays caused by not having enough infections in those being tested (which is in all other respects wonderful news), the rollout to Brazil now implies that they'll have enough data on the OxChAd1 vaccine "by November." With, if positive, regulatory approval coming rapidly afterwards and rollout of mass vaccination (thanks to them beginning mass production nearly two months ago on the assumption of success) shortly after that.

    IF successful. Still a big assumption, even if all signs have been pretty positive so far - but if this timeline is followed, and the trials are successful, we should have the data in 11-15 weeks from now, with the rest coming within weeks after that.

    Of course, production and administration of enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone in the UK will take significant time, but simply knowing that it's there, it's coming, and there's a fixed timetable for things to get resolved would be marvellous for a lot of people.
    Who is going to be willingly first in the queue? There are a lot of people who feel it’s been rushed or they are going to be injected with a microchip. It’s going to take some selling
  • Options
    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:
    Pretty depressing!

    I do wonder about the US comparisons though. Over there 50%+ of older people are Republicans. They (on average) don't think the virus is such a big deal.

    Here in the UK at least, older people seem pretty scared, so perhaps they will continue to see people less and so protect themselves.
    I’d add that thus far our infection rates have remained much lower than in the US. With sensible measures, they should stay so.
    Until there’s a vaccine, we’re not returning to normal, but if we’re sensible, life should be liveable.
    According to the most recent open source information I can find (here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/07/oxford-vaccine-enters-final-phase-of-covid-19-trials-in-brazil-cvd/ ), despite the delays caused by not having enough infections in those being tested (which is in all other respects wonderful news), the rollout to Brazil now implies that they'll have enough data on the OxChAd1 vaccine "by November." With, if positive, regulatory approval coming rapidly afterwards and rollout of mass vaccination (thanks to them beginning mass production nearly two months ago on the assumption of success) shortly after that.

    IF successful. Still a big assumption, even if all signs have been pretty positive so far - but if this timeline is followed, and the trials are successful, we should have the data in 11-15 weeks from now, with the rest coming within weeks after that.

    Of course, production and administration of enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone in the UK will take significant time, but simply knowing that it's there, it's coming, and there's a fixed timetable for things to get resolved would be marvellous for a lot of people.
    Who is going to be willingly first in the queue? There are a lot of people who feel it’s been rushed or they are going to be injected with a microchip. It’s going to take some selling
    There's going to be some people who are batshit crazy but there will be plenty who have been on the front line of this and seen people die from this who would happily be first in the queue ... Likely those who should be near the front of the queue too. NHS staff, Care staff etc
  • Options

    Foxy said:
    Absolutely disgusting.
    When are Western leaders going to show some backbone and act against Putin? His entire diplomatic corp should be expelled from every free country.
    Very good question.
    If we do nothing, we are accessories.
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    nichomar said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:


    The rumour is that the ‘camping holiday’ story put about by Boris is actually fake.
    No way is the famously undomesticated lardarse camping with a 3 month old baby and dog amongst the midges.
    Its amazing how people think he should not be allowed a holiday. he nearly died in April and came striaght back to work.
    What evidence is there that he nearly died? Moving the current PM into ICU was a good arse covering move by the hospital who wouldn’t want him dying on them. Yes he deserves a holiday after the crisis is over, if he’s not up to it he should move over and let someone who is take over.
    The New Zealand nurse who treated him confirmed how ill he was, but hey he just got admitted to ICU for fun!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/new-zealand-nurse-i-treated-boris-johnson-like-any-other-patient
    You are easily taken in, do you expect them to come out and say we rolled out the red carpet, he had nurses at his beck and call 24 hours a day. I have a few bridges going cheap , give me a call.
    So who was it who was seeing conspiracies everywhere?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,997
    edited August 2020
    This year's lower 6th/year 12/AS cohort are in an absolubtely invidious position. Inflated grades awarded to their immediate younger and older peers AND school time missed.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,359
    edited August 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think we can safely predict a row at about the same time next year over questions related to fairness and parity of results between the cohort (not) examined in 2020 and the cohorts examined or otherwise in 2021. It should keep the Guardian and BBC going for some time.

    Next year's cohort also lost 6 months of schooling. That has to have an impact.
    My granddaughter says she has managed to keep reasonably on course with online participation and is confident for her grades next year

    However, she is very worried about being able to attend her first choice university

    Outside the political furore where on earth are all these additional places in universities across the four nations comes from is anyone's guess
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited August 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    What an indictment of the broad culture of management consultancy, from multiple points of view.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:


    The rumour is that the ‘camping holiday’ story put about by Boris is actually fake.
    No way is the famously undomesticated lardarse camping with a 3 month old baby and dog amongst the midges.
    It was glamping which turned to glumping as various polls came in.
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,316
    On topic:

    Clinton didn't consistently have a clear polling lead in 2016, certainly not compared to Biden.

    Looking at the 538 national polling average in 2016 from 8 June (when the 538 average starts and she effectively won the nomination) until August 18 (the most recent date available for Biden Trump):
    Clinton's lead varied between 0.2% and 8.1%

    During the same period this year:
    Biden's lead has varied between 7.2% and 9.6% (currently 8.4% bang in the middle of the range, and higher than Clinton's highest average lead in 2016)

    The highest Clinton polled in that period was 45.6%. Biden's lowest polling in that period was 49.5% and has mostly been above 50% - something Clinton didn't manage in all of 2016.

    Biden is, so far, polling much better than Clinton.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,427

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think we can safely predict a row at about the same time next year over questions related to fairness and parity of results between the cohort (not) examined in 2020 and the cohorts examined or otherwise in 2021. It should keep the Guardian and BBC going for some time.

    Next year's cohort also lost 6 months of schooling. That has to have an impact.
    My granddaughter says she has managed to keep reasonably on course with online participation and is confident for her grades next year

    However, she is very worried about being able to attend her first choice university

    Outside the political furore where on earth are all these additional places in universities across the four nations comes from is anyone's guess
    The worst case is that whichever university she chooses, she ends up studying on her computer in her bedroom.
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,819
    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:
    Pretty depressing!

    I do wonder about the US comparisons though. Over there 50%+ of older people are Republicans. They (on average) don't think the virus is such a big deal.

    Here in the UK at least, older people seem pretty scared, so perhaps they will continue to see people less and so protect themselves.
    I’d add that thus far our infection rates have remained much lower than in the US. With sensible measures, they should stay so.
    Until there’s a vaccine, we’re not returning to normal, but if we’re sensible, life should be liveable.
    According to the most recent open source information I can find (here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/07/oxford-vaccine-enters-final-phase-of-covid-19-trials-in-brazil-cvd/ ), despite the delays caused by not having enough infections in those being tested (which is in all other respects wonderful news), the rollout to Brazil now implies that they'll have enough data on the OxChAd1 vaccine "by November." With, if positive, regulatory approval coming rapidly afterwards and rollout of mass vaccination (thanks to them beginning mass production nearly two months ago on the assumption of success) shortly after that.

    IF successful. Still a big assumption, even if all signs have been pretty positive so far - but if this timeline is followed, and the trials are successful, we should have the data in 11-15 weeks from now, with the rest coming within weeks after that.

    Of course, production and administration of enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone in the UK will take significant time, but simply knowing that it's there, it's coming, and there's a fixed timetable for things to get resolved would be marvellous for a lot of people.
    Who is going to be willingly first in the queue? There are a lot of people who feel it’s been rushed or they are going to be injected with a microchip. It’s going to take some selling
    They need to do some communicating.

    The fact that this articular vaccine has actually been in development for 8 years+ should be mentioned, for a start.
    (Originally designed as an easily-adaptable vaccine against the feared Disease-X, first incarnation as an Ebola vaccine (where, while successful, it lost out to an American vaccine that got through approvals a few weeks sooner), with the vector amended to work against the MERS coronavirus (where, although it was 90% done, funding was cut because it was no longer seen as necessary), and then they saw how close it already was (as a coronavirus vaccine) to Sars-CoV-2).

    It's not much different to the way they adjust the flu vaccine each year.

    But, yes - they need to make sure the information is out there. I'll be one of the first in the queue, for sure.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,997
    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:
    Pretty depressing!

    I do wonder about the US comparisons though. Over there 50%+ of older people are Republicans. They (on average) don't think the virus is such a big deal.

    Here in the UK at least, older people seem pretty scared, so perhaps they will continue to see people less and so protect themselves.
    I’d add that thus far our infection rates have remained much lower than in the US. With sensible measures, they should stay so.
    Until there’s a vaccine, we’re not returning to normal, but if we’re sensible, life should be liveable.
    According to the most recent open source information I can find (here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/07/oxford-vaccine-enters-final-phase-of-covid-19-trials-in-brazil-cvd/ ), despite the delays caused by not having enough infections in those being tested (which is in all other respects wonderful news), the rollout to Brazil now implies that they'll have enough data on the OxChAd1 vaccine "by November." With, if positive, regulatory approval coming rapidly afterwards and rollout of mass vaccination (thanks to them beginning mass production nearly two months ago on the assumption of success) shortly after that.

    IF successful. Still a big assumption, even if all signs have been pretty positive so far - but if this timeline is followed, and the trials are successful, we should have the data in 11-15 weeks from now, with the rest coming within weeks after that.

    Of course, production and administration of enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone in the UK will take significant time, but simply knowing that it's there, it's coming, and there's a fixed timetable for things to get resolved would be marvellous for a lot of people.
    Who is going to be willingly first in the queue? There are a lot of people who feel it’s been rushed or they are going to be injected with a microchip. It’s going to take some selling
    I'm signed up via the NHS website for a P3 trial to try and skip the queue. Doubt I'll get in though, don't tick enough boxes for those that they want.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,378
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    The very first words written into the record of the Scottish Parliament in 1999 were that it was specifically a reconvention of that closed in 1707. That was not challenged at the time.

    No they were not. Here’s the official record:

    http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=4160

    Welcome to this, the first meeting of the Scottish Parliament established under the Scotland Act 1998. We are gathered on this day and at this time and place, in accordance with The Scottish Parliament (First Ordinary General Election and First Meeting) Order 1999. As provided by the standing orders, my role is to preside over the proceedings to enable the oldest qualified member to take the oath or make a solemn affirmation.

    Which accepts this was a new Parliament established under a new act.

    I’m getting really quite worried that even sensible Nats are getting more and more divorced from reality, like Cummings or Farage. Business for Scotland and the National are we all know fake news websites that can’t be trusted, but Carnyx is a sensible and intelligent poster.

    Yet even he(?) has swallowed the lies of the Nats’ propagandists whole. No wonder support for independence is increasing if this horseshit is swallowed without question.
    Ydoethur , you are getting increasingly shrill about independence, is it worrying you that much. Seeing conspiracy everywhere, I am getting concerned about you. Just relax and accept the union is dead , Saor Alba.
    Stop following fake news from deranged xenophobes and the problem vanishes, Malc.

    Whatever the Scots do, I don't want to see a government led by people like Business for Scotland on the northern border of England. They're starting to make me think kindly of Cummings, and I would willingly have sworn that was impossible.
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think we can safely predict a row at about the same time next year over questions related to fairness and parity of results between the cohort (not) examined in 2020 and the cohorts examined or otherwise in 2021. It should keep the Guardian and BBC going for some time.

    Next year's cohort also lost 6 months of schooling. That has to have an impact.
    My granddaughter says she has managed to keep reasonably on course with online participation and is confident for her grades next year

    However, she is very worried about being able to attend her first choice university

    Outside the political furore where on earth are all these additional places in universities across the four nations comes from is anyone's guess
    The worst case is that whichever university she chooses, she ends up studying on her computer in her bedroom.
    Actually she would be comfortable with online study but through her first choice university
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,380
    Scott_xP said:
    He really hasn't got this has he? It would be a B grade seasonally adjusted to an A.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,378
    edited August 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    Actually, it looks as though the chain of events is that Mrs Cummings caught it, Dominic Cummings broke quarantine coming into work before his dash to Durham, and that he passed it on to everyone else.

    Although that does tend to confirm the main thrust of the tweet.
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,156
    Scott_xP said:
    Scott_xP said:
    So no civil servants present, no notes of the meeting between the minister and the dark money funded lobbyists, and now they're just pretending the meeting never even happened. This is how Brexit is being delivered, in the dark and on demand from the Tories' paymasters. Thank God we took back control, eh?
  • Options
    BBC

    GCSE rates have surged to record highs

    What happens next year
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Scott_xP said:
    What an indictment of the broad culture of management consultancy, from multiple points of view.
    How can it be an indictment of anything unless you know how many of them were doing what for how long? That figure is arrived at by taking a 6 week contract for 560,000, knocking off the weekends and dividing the one by the other. How are we meant, without knowing the number and status of people involved, to have any useful response to it?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,378

    BBC

    GCSE rates have surged to record highs

    What happens next year

    There will be no continuity of grades anyway due to changes in the subject content.

    As of this moment, there is still, in effect, only one group that has sat the new GCSE - last year's cohort - and that will not be changing for at least another two years.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261

    IanB2 said:

    So the BBC keeps reporting stories of how people who'd been told they'd missed out on university places (pre u turn) now being told their university places have been confirmed after all. Despite the fact that I was very confidently being told by @eek and others that it was too late for a u turn and all the universities would be full already. Doesn't look like that's the case at all.

    The u turn was the right thing to do. Glad it happened and good to see all these young people getting into their university of choice and not missing out because "computer says no".

    Indeed. Just a shame it took a fortnight for what was relatively obvious to sink in; meanwhile thousands of 18-year-olds were left hanging while ministers slagged off Scottish ministers for recognising the same inevitability a lot more swiftly.
    It took the UK Government exactly the same amount of time as the Scottish Government to do the U turn. Of course in Scotland the u turn was fantastic, in England it is terrible.
    And one bunch of diddies had the example of the other bunch of diddies to mull over for 3 weeks. Applying my patented 'which is the bigger bunch of diddies' algorithm..
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    The very first words written into the record of the Scottish Parliament in 1999 were that it was specifically a reconvention of that closed in 1707. That was not challenged at the time.

    No they were not. Here’s the official record:

    http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=4160

    Welcome to this, the first meeting of the Scottish Parliament established under the Scotland Act 1998. We are gathered on this day and at this time and place, in accordance with The Scottish Parliament (First Ordinary General Election and First Meeting) Order 1999. As provided by the standing orders, my role is to preside over the proceedings to enable the oldest qualified member to take the oath or make a solemn affirmation.

    Which accepts this was a new Parliament established under a new act.

    I’m getting really quite worried that even sensible Nats are getting more and more divorced from reality, like Cummings or Farage. Business for Scotland and the National are we all know fake news websites that can’t be trusted, but Carnyx is a sensible and intelligent poster.

    Yet even he(?) has swallowed the lies of the Nats’ propagandists whole. No wonder support for independence is increasing if this horseshit is swallowed without question.
    Ydoethur , you are getting increasingly shrill about independence, is it worrying you that much. Seeing conspiracy everywhere, I am getting concerned about you. Just relax and accept the union is dead , Saor Alba.
    Stop following fake news from deranged xenophobes and the problem vanishes, Malc.

    Whatever the Scots do, I don't want to see a government led by people like Business for Scotland on the northern border of England. They're starting to make me think kindly of Cummings, and I would willingly have sworn that was impossible.
    I only follow one or two individuals and am bright enough to read and understand reality , Business for Scotland are no worse ( and in fact better ) than many shady unionist propaganda units and 77 Brigade , GCHQ etc. You are brainwashed by unionist propaganda and anything in Scotland will be, of no concern to England. I don't see them ( a ONE man band !!!! )crossing under cover of darkness and putting pamphlets up in England.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,580
    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797

    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:
    Pretty depressing!

    I do wonder about the US comparisons though. Over there 50%+ of older people are Republicans. They (on average) don't think the virus is such a big deal.

    Here in the UK at least, older people seem pretty scared, so perhaps they will continue to see people less and so protect themselves.
    I’d add that thus far our infection rates have remained much lower than in the US. With sensible measures, they should stay so.
    Until there’s a vaccine, we’re not returning to normal, but if we’re sensible, life should be liveable.
    According to the most recent open source information I can find (here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/07/oxford-vaccine-enters-final-phase-of-covid-19-trials-in-brazil-cvd/ ), despite the delays caused by not having enough infections in those being tested (which is in all other respects wonderful news), the rollout to Brazil now implies that they'll have enough data on the OxChAd1 vaccine "by November." With, if positive, regulatory approval coming rapidly afterwards and rollout of mass vaccination (thanks to them beginning mass production nearly two months ago on the assumption of success) shortly after that.

    IF successful. Still a big assumption, even if all signs have been pretty positive so far - but if this timeline is followed, and the trials are successful, we should have the data in 11-15 weeks from now, with the rest coming within weeks after that.

    Of course, production and administration of enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone in the UK will take significant time, but simply knowing that it's there, it's coming, and there's a fixed timetable for things to get resolved would be marvellous for a lot of people.
    Who is going to be willingly first in the queue? There are a lot of people who feel it’s been rushed or they are going to be injected with a microchip. It’s going to take some selling
    They need to do some communicating.

    The fact that this articular vaccine has actually been in development for 8 years+ should be mentioned, for a start.
    (Originally designed as an easily-adaptable vaccine against the feared Disease-X, first incarnation as an Ebola vaccine (where, while successful, it lost out to an American vaccine that got through approvals a few weeks sooner), with the vector amended to work against the MERS coronavirus (where, although it was 90% done, funding was cut because it was no longer seen as necessary), and then they saw how close it already was (as a coronavirus vaccine) to Sars-CoV-2).

    It's not much different to the way they adjust the flu vaccine each year.

    But, yes - they need to make sure the information is out there. I'll be one of the first in the queue, for sure.
    I was searching for the term until I realised that should have read 'particular vaccine'.
    :smile:
    Like Pulpstar, I've volunteered for clinical trials, but yet to hear anything.
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:

    algarkirk said:

    I think we can safely predict a row at about the same time next year over questions related to fairness and parity of results between the cohort (not) examined in 2020 and the cohorts examined or otherwise in 2021. It should keep the Guardian and BBC going for some time.

    Next year's cohort also lost 6 months of schooling. That has to have an impact.
    More like three to be fair. This next bit applies to my school, but I would be surprised if others were that different.

    The lockdown has coincided with most of the school holidays for the year: two weeks at Easter, one week at the end of May and six weeks in the summer which is about two months.

    Not a lot of new work gets done in the second half of the summer term, particularly for Y12 as there are normally a few off on university open days or summer school (which tend to run to Independent school holidays) each lesson.

    On the other hand the exams they would normally have sat (taking up another two or three weeks for the exams and then going through the result, let alone any time for revision) still need to be sat for the new Y13s if we are to have anything like realistic UCAS predictions. I think we are planing on doing this in a compressed timetable and a recap of last year’s work will be now bad thing in its own right, but it will eat into the time we have to teach them.

    All of which assumes that none of the work that we set and lessons that we recorded and questions that we answered had any effect so that those months were wasted; I’d like to think that some of it will stick.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,380
    Well my son has been described as "the hero of the hour" at his school after getting an answer from the SQA confirming that not only grades but bands would be as per teacher assessment. An anonymised version of his reply has been sent to every sixth former which includes several who did not get confirmation of their offers from Imperial because their bands as assessed by the algorithm did not meet their entry requirements. I very much hope that Imperial and other Universities will be able to review their earlier decisions and admit those pupils.

    What I continue to find absolutely bewildering is that the educational establishments in all 4 home countries (and in others such as Ireland, apparently) ever thought that an algorithm could produce results that were fair to the individual recipients. It is depressing that the relevant Ministers were either too stupid or too in awe of their "experts" not to immediately challenge this and insist on better but it is at least equally concerning that those in charge of our educational establishments are just completely indifferent to concepts of fairness or opportunity.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,378
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    The very first words written into the record of the Scottish Parliament in 1999 were that it was specifically a reconvention of that closed in 1707. That was not challenged at the time.

    No they were not. Here’s the official record:

    http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=4160

    Welcome to this, the first meeting of the Scottish Parliament established under the Scotland Act 1998. We are gathered on this day and at this time and place, in accordance with The Scottish Parliament (First Ordinary General Election and First Meeting) Order 1999. As provided by the standing orders, my role is to preside over the proceedings to enable the oldest qualified member to take the oath or make a solemn affirmation.

    Which accepts this was a new Parliament established under a new act.

    I’m getting really quite worried that even sensible Nats are getting more and more divorced from reality, like Cummings or Farage. Business for Scotland and the National are we all know fake news websites that can’t be trusted, but Carnyx is a sensible and intelligent poster.

    Yet even he(?) has swallowed the lies of the Nats’ propagandists whole. No wonder support for independence is increasing if this horseshit is swallowed without question.
    Ydoethur , you are getting increasingly shrill about independence, is it worrying you that much. Seeing conspiracy everywhere, I am getting concerned about you. Just relax and accept the union is dead , Saor Alba.
    Stop following fake news from deranged xenophobes and the problem vanishes, Malc.

    Whatever the Scots do, I don't want to see a government led by people like Business for Scotland on the northern border of England. They're starting to make me think kindly of Cummings, and I would willingly have sworn that was impossible.
    I only follow one or two individuals and am bright enough to read and understand reality , Business for Scotland are no worse ( and in fact better ) than many shady unionist propaganda units and 77 Brigade , GCHQ etc. You are brainwashed by unionist propaganda and anything in Scotland will be, of no concern to England. I don't see them ( a ONE man band !!!! )crossing under cover of darkness and putting pamphlets up in England.
    Malcolm - I am not brainwashed. I see things as they are. As for your own view - when have you ever posted anything that criticised the nationalist movement (not the SNP, because you criticise them all the time)?

    But I'm not going to allow repeated fake news to be fed to people without challenge.

    In any case, my original post wasn't aimed at you. So I'm not sure why you're getting so worked up about it.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,797


    So no civil servants present, no notes of the meeting between the minister and the dark money funded lobbyists, and now they're just pretending the meeting never even happened. This is how Brexit is being delivered, in the dark and on demand from the Tories' paymasters. Thank God we took back control, eh?

    The art of the compromise
    Hold your nose and close your eyes
    We want our leaders to save the day
    But we don't get a say in what they trade away
    We dream of a brand new start
    But we dream in the dark for the most part
    Dark as a tomb where it happens...

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,161
    Rasmussen had Hilllary with a 2% poll lead in its final poll in 2016 which is what she got, it now has a 4% Biden lead with 4% undecided and 4% voting for minor candidates in its latest poll in the chart above so still quite close.

    Statewide while Biden will almost certainly pick up Pennsylvania and Michigan on the latest polling the other key states are still quite open
  • Options
    GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323

    Scott_xP said:
    What an indictment of the broad culture of management consultancy, from multiple points of view.
    How many people did that pay for?

    My worst problem with consultancy was the proliferation of day rates / bulk billing. They provide about as much of a narrative for one day as some of my client require for 6 minutes.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,351

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Why do people consider an apprenticeship only for someone who has not done well in their exams. To be an electrician or a mechanical engineer you have to be reasonably academic. And when you are 21 you will be earning £40,000 per annum and have a trade for life. But hey A-Levels and a degree in Geography which will leave you with massive debts are the way to go if you have done well at School.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,378

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Just because they are 'eligible' doesn't mean they will go on to A-level courses.

    I would also add that most A-level courses have minimum requirements in particular subjects to do them. Nobody was allowed to do History on my watch unless they got a 6. For A-level Maths, the requirement was Further Maths or a 9.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,427

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Why do people consider an apprenticeship only for someone who has not done well in their exams. To be an electrician or a mechanical engineer you have to be reasonably academic. And when you are 21 you will be earning £40,000 per annum and have a trade for life. But hey A-Levels and a degree in Geography which will leave you with massive debts are the way to go if you have done well at School.
    If you have a degree in geography one would hope that you know the way to go.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,001

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Given the employment situation all that may not be a bad thing.
    Youngest got what he expected. As did every single one of his mates. Weird results day.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,378
    DavidL said:

    Well my son has been described as "the hero of the hour" at his school after getting an answer from the SQA confirming that not only grades but bands would be as per teacher assessment. An anonymised version of his reply has been sent to every sixth former which includes several who did not get confirmation of their offers from Imperial because their bands as assessed by the algorithm did not meet their entry requirements. I very much hope that Imperial and other Universities will be able to review their earlier decisions and admit those pupils.

    What I continue to find absolutely bewildering is that the educational establishments in all 4 home countries (and in others such as Ireland, apparently) ever thought that an algorithm could produce results that were fair to the individual recipients. It is depressing that the relevant Ministers were either too stupid or too in awe of their "experts" not to immediately challenge this and insist on better but it is at least equally concerning that those in charge of our educational establishments are just completely indifferent to concepts of fairness or opportunity.

    But that's the point. The people in charge of the educational establishment are not experts. In fact, most of them are clueless. Experts were frozen out of this process and as they say, sow a wind reap the whirlwind.

    The one faint silver lining to all this is that the people in charge are surely completely cooked. It has been publicly demonstrated how utterly arrogant, useless and pathetic they are. If OFQUAL still exists on 31st March next year I will be amazed.

    Great news for your son, I was hoping that would happen.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    The very first words written into the record of the Scottish Parliament in 1999 were that it was specifically a reconvention of that closed in 1707. That was not challenged at the time.

    No they were not. Here’s the official record:

    http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=4160

    Welcome to this, the first meeting of the Scottish Parliament established under the Scotland Act 1998. We are gathered on this day and at this time and place, in accordance with The Scottish Parliament (First Ordinary General Election and First Meeting) Order 1999. As provided by the standing orders, my role is to preside over the proceedings to enable the oldest qualified member to take the oath or make a solemn affirmation.

    Which accepts this was a new Parliament established under a new act.

    I’m getting really quite worried that even sensible Nats are getting more and more divorced from reality, like Cummings or Farage. Business for Scotland and the National are we all know fake news websites that can’t be trusted, but Carnyx is a sensible and intelligent poster.

    Yet even he(?) has swallowed the lies of the Nats’ propagandists whole. No wonder support for independence is increasing if this horseshit is swallowed without question.
    Ydoethur , you are getting increasingly shrill about independence, is it worrying you that much. Seeing conspiracy everywhere, I am getting concerned about you. Just relax and accept the union is dead , Saor Alba.
    Stop following fake news from deranged xenophobes and the problem vanishes, Malc.

    Whatever the Scots do, I don't want to see a government led by people like Business for Scotland on the northern border of England. They're starting to make me think kindly of Cummings, and I would willingly have sworn that was impossible.
    I only follow one or two individuals and am bright enough to read and understand reality , Business for Scotland are no worse ( and in fact better ) than many shady unionist propaganda units and 77 Brigade , GCHQ etc. You are brainwashed by unionist propaganda and anything in Scotland will be, of no concern to England. I don't see them ( a ONE man band !!!! )crossing under cover of darkness and putting pamphlets up in England.
    I am not brainwashed. I see things as they are.
    One of the most persuasive and winningest arguments evah to be heard on PB.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,161
    edited August 2020

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Why do people consider an apprenticeship only for someone who has not done well in their exams. To be an electrician or a mechanical engineer you have to be reasonably academic. And when you are 21 you will be earning £40,000 per annum and have a trade for life. But hey A-Levels and a degree in Geography which will leave you with massive debts are the way to go if you have done well at School.
    Indeed, the highest level apprentices will go on to earn more on average than all graduates except those who attended a Russell Group university, likely get on the property ladder sooner and not have any student debt either.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,227
    Stocky said:

    GCSEs: my daughter has just received her GCSE results. She took nine subjects, eight were exactly what we thought she would have got if she had took the exams, one subject was graded one a grade higher. We are all so relieved, it`s been a nightmare few days.

    Jonathan said:

    Phew! Jonathan Jr received the GCSEs he deserved today. Not at the mercy of some crappy algorithm.

    Pleased for you both.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,380

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Why do people consider an apprenticeship only for someone who has not done well in their exams. To be an electrician or a mechanical engineer you have to be reasonably academic. And when you are 21 you will be earning £40,000 per annum and have a trade for life. But hey A-Levels and a degree in Geography which will leave you with massive debts are the way to go if you have done well at School.
    I remember a divorce client I had many years ago now who was a plumber. He had his own business which had done well. I asked him what he had made the previous year and he said £300k. His wife wanted a share of his business as matrimonial property and her solicitor had asked claimed it was worth £1m so she wanted £500k. We laughed and laughed and did the deal.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,378
    edited August 2020

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Why do people consider an apprenticeship only for someone who has not done well in their exams. To be an electrician or a mechanical engineer you have to be reasonably academic. And when you are 21 you will be earning £40,000 per annum and have a trade for life. But hey A-Levels and a degree in Geography which will leave you with massive debts are the way to go if you have done well at School.
    One of the ways I astonish students with a contempt for academic work because they were only interested in a skilled trade is to slap said trade's (e.g. building or electrical engineering) health and safety regulations in front of them and ask them to read it.

    It usually has very good results in terms of concentrating their minds on the importance of English and maths regardless of what you intend to do afterwards.

    Speaking of which - to work.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,380

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Why do people consider an apprenticeship only for someone who has not done well in their exams. To be an electrician or a mechanical engineer you have to be reasonably academic. And when you are 21 you will be earning £40,000 per annum and have a trade for life. But hey A-Levels and a degree in Geography which will leave you with massive debts are the way to go if you have done well at School.
    I remember a divorce client I had many years ago now who was a plumber. He had his own business which had done well. I asked him what he had made the previous year and he said £300k. His wife wanted a share of his business as matrimonial property and her solicitor had asked claimed it was worth £1m so she wanted £500k. We laughed and laughed and did the deal.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,245

    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:
    Pretty depressing!

    I do wonder about the US comparisons though. Over there 50%+ of older people are Republicans. They (on average) don't think the virus is such a big deal.

    Here in the UK at least, older people seem pretty scared, so perhaps they will continue to see people less and so protect themselves.
    I’d add that thus far our infection rates have remained much lower than in the US. With sensible measures, they should stay so.
    Until there’s a vaccine, we’re not returning to normal, but if we’re sensible, life should be liveable.
    According to the most recent open source information I can find (here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/07/oxford-vaccine-enters-final-phase-of-covid-19-trials-in-brazil-cvd/ ), despite the delays caused by not having enough infections in those being tested (which is in all other respects wonderful news), the rollout to Brazil now implies that they'll have enough data on the OxChAd1 vaccine "by November." With, if positive, regulatory approval coming rapidly afterwards and rollout of mass vaccination (thanks to them beginning mass production nearly two months ago on the assumption of success) shortly after that.

    IF successful. Still a big assumption, even if all signs have been pretty positive so far - but if this timeline is followed, and the trials are successful, we should have the data in 11-15 weeks from now, with the rest coming within weeks after that.

    Of course, production and administration of enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone in the UK will take significant time, but simply knowing that it's there, it's coming, and there's a fixed timetable for things to get resolved would be marvellous for a lot of people.
    Who is going to be willingly first in the queue? There are a lot of people who feel it’s been rushed or they are going to be injected with a microchip. It’s going to take some selling
    They need to do some communicating.

    The fact that this articular vaccine has actually been in development for 8 years+ should be mentioned, for a start.
    (Originally designed as an easily-adaptable vaccine against the feared Disease-X, first incarnation as an Ebola vaccine (where, while successful, it lost out to an American vaccine that got through approvals a few weeks sooner), with the vector amended to work against the MERS coronavirus (where, although it was 90% done, funding was cut because it was no longer seen as necessary), and then they saw how close it already was (as a coronavirus vaccine) to Sars-CoV-2).

    It's not much different to the way they adjust the flu vaccine each year.

    But, yes - they need to make sure the information is out there. I'll be one of the first in the queue, for sure.
    I love a vaccine. I always walk out feeling like the Hulk, one less thing out there that’s gonna get me. What would be really awesome is if the covid-19 vaccine confers some immunity to the 4 common cold corona viruses, which you can catch repeatedly.

    I was one of the first to be given the piggy flu vaccine, I’ll get this when available too. So long as taking an early less effective vaccine doesn’t mean a later more effective one won’t be available to me.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,613
    Scott_xP said:
    Does anyone know how many PR/comms people the government employ already at our expense to do this stuff, and at what cost?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,373
    Scott_xP said:
    That narrative advice in detail:

    Test and Track is shit, but we better not tell anyone. I suggest you just say 'it's world beating' and see if any of the proles notice.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,378

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    The very first words written into the record of the Scottish Parliament in 1999 were that it was specifically a reconvention of that closed in 1707. That was not challenged at the time.

    No they were not. Here’s the official record:

    http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=4160

    Welcome to this, the first meeting of the Scottish Parliament established under the Scotland Act 1998. We are gathered on this day and at this time and place, in accordance with The Scottish Parliament (First Ordinary General Election and First Meeting) Order 1999. As provided by the standing orders, my role is to preside over the proceedings to enable the oldest qualified member to take the oath or make a solemn affirmation.

    Which accepts this was a new Parliament established under a new act.

    I’m getting really quite worried that even sensible Nats are getting more and more divorced from reality, like Cummings or Farage. Business for Scotland and the National are we all know fake news websites that can’t be trusted, but Carnyx is a sensible and intelligent poster.

    Yet even he(?) has swallowed the lies of the Nats’ propagandists whole. No wonder support for independence is increasing if this horseshit is swallowed without question.
    Ydoethur , you are getting increasingly shrill about independence, is it worrying you that much. Seeing conspiracy everywhere, I am getting concerned about you. Just relax and accept the union is dead , Saor Alba.
    Stop following fake news from deranged xenophobes and the problem vanishes, Malc.

    Whatever the Scots do, I don't want to see a government led by people like Business for Scotland on the northern border of England. They're starting to make me think kindly of Cummings, and I would willingly have sworn that was impossible.
    I only follow one or two individuals and am bright enough to read and understand reality , Business for Scotland are no worse ( and in fact better ) than many shady unionist propaganda units and 77 Brigade , GCHQ etc. You are brainwashed by unionist propaganda and anything in Scotland will be, of no concern to England. I don't see them ( a ONE man band !!!! )crossing under cover of darkness and putting pamphlets up in England.
    I am not brainwashed. I see things as they are.
    One of the most persuasive and winningest arguments evah to be heard on PB.
    I am delighted my sheer brilliance overawes you. I know that we Welsh are naturally awesome but don't worry, we have a deep affection for the Scottish people as well.

    But in this case, as I had refuted a claim by linking to the actual record - as I did before - I'm quite happy that my statement is supported by ample evidence.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,148
    ydoethur said:

    The one faint silver lining to all this is that the people in charge are surely completely cooked. It has been publicly demonstrated how utterly arrogant, useless and pathetic they are. If OFQUAL still exists on 31st March next year I will be amazed.

    https://twitter.com/PershoreDan/status/1296349926323101696
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,613
    Cyclefree said:

    Stocky said:

    GCSEs: my daughter has just received her GCSE results. She took nine subjects, eight were exactly what we thought she would have got if she had took the exams, one subject was graded one a grade higher. We are all so relieved, it`s been a nightmare few days.

    Jonathan said:

    Phew! Jonathan Jr received the GCSEs he deserved today. Not at the mercy of some crappy algorithm.

    Pleased for you both.
    But what about next year's Year 11s who will, not unreasonably, object if the exams return them to the sorts of result people got in 2019 rather than matching the results spike in 2020?
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Just because they are 'eligible' doesn't mean they will go on to A-level courses.

    I would also add that most A-level courses have minimum requirements in particular subjects to do them. Nobody was allowed to do History on my watch unless they got a 6. For A-level Maths, the requirement was Further Maths or a 9.
    How many A-level maths students do you get if those are you entry requirements?
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,919
    ydoethur said:


    If OFQUAL still exists on 31st March next year I will be amazed.

    Very happy to bet on that. 50 quid to the charity of winner's choice?
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,351
    dixiedean said:

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Given the employment situation all that may not be a bad thing.
    Youngest got what he expected. As did every single one of his mates. Weird results day.
    Every single student will have at least what they expected today.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,580
    ydoethur said:

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Just because they are 'eligible' doesn't mean they will go on to A-level courses.

    I would also add that most A-level courses have minimum requirements in particular subjects to do them. Nobody was allowed to do History on my watch unless they got a 6. For A-level Maths, the requirement was Further Maths or a 9.
    I'm thinking of sixth form colleges, which is what I know best. As long as you've got 5 Cs in old money (5 G4s now) you can do A levels, though specific subjects may have extra requirements - maths, physics, languages etc. So weaker students do the subjects without specific requirements - often those not taught at many schools.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:

    BBC

    GCSE rates have surged to record highs

    What happens next year

    There will be no continuity of grades anyway due to changes in the subject content.

    As of this moment, there is still, in effect, only one group that has sat the new GCSE - last year's cohort - and that will not be changing for at least another two years.
    My granddaughter takes her A next year

    She was top student in her school for GCSE and hoped for her first choice university

    This years grade inflation must have an effect on next years students
  • Options

    dixiedean said:

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Given the employment situation all that may not be a bad thing.
    Youngest got what he expected. As did every single one of his mates. Weird results day.
    Every single student will have at least what they expected today.
    The schools did not tell their pupils what the CAGs were. I expect that there are some who thought they should have got a higher grade than the school did, in fact I would be amazed if there were not several per school.
  • Options
    My lad received an excellent set of GCSE results today, but he's not best pleased. Why? Well, he attends a boys' grammar school which also takes girls in the 6th form. However, grade inflation means that more boys than usual will be able to proceed into the 6th form, which means fewer places remaining for students from other schools and, in particular, the local girls' grammar. So although he is pleased to be entering the 6th form, as expected, he says there will be more of the dopey kids who would otherwise have been chucked out and fewer potential girlfriends!
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,582
    ydoethur said:

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Why do people consider an apprenticeship only for someone who has not done well in their exams. To be an electrician or a mechanical engineer you have to be reasonably academic. And when you are 21 you will be earning £40,000 per annum and have a trade for life. But hey A-Levels and a degree in Geography which will leave you with massive debts are the way to go if you have done well at School.
    One of the ways I astonish students with a contempt for academic work because they were only interested in a skilled trade is to slap said trade's (e.g. building or electrical engineering) health and safety regulations in front of them and ask them to read it.

    It usually has very good results in terms of concentrating their minds on the importance of English and maths regardless of what you intend to do afterwards.

    Speaking of which - to work.
    The problem is, I think, the hang over of out of date attitudes and beliefs regrading the nature of work.

    Major/Blair pushed the degree-for-all idea. This vision was that everyone would get a degree and get a white collar job to match. Machines would do all the nasty hands dirty stuff. This was based on the old world view - success (and money) was in the office. The workers toiled for pennies.

    The reality was, by that point, the world had changed again. It used to be that "skilled trades" was poorly paid, horrible and also much looked down upon. We now live in a world where the guy passing you in a Tesla X may well be a plumber.

    The differential between the middle class "white collar" income and the "skilled trades" income has disappeared - certainly at the low end. Obviously, a top barrister will be doing better than a carpenter, but a job managing a team at a call centre won't be.

    At the same time, as you say, the academic requirements for "skilled trades" have gone up. The days when you could get by with adding & subtraction are long gone..

    Motivation by practical usage is an interesting point - The son of a friend, who wasn't academic in the university sense, now works as a high end welder, and is doing night classes for the maths and chemistry he needs for that. The linkage between what he likes doing and the knowledge he needs has motivated him, apparently.

    What there is a shortage of is that combination - education and hands on ability.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,351
    Scott_xP said:
    A "lost generation." What on earth does that mean? All students have got at least what their teachers predicted, how has that created a lost generation?
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    Well my son has been described as "the hero of the hour" at his school after getting an answer from the SQA confirming that not only grades but bands would be as per teacher assessment. An anonymised version of his reply has been sent to every sixth former which includes several who did not get confirmation of their offers from Imperial because their bands as assessed by the algorithm did not meet their entry requirements. I very much hope that Imperial and other Universities will be able to review their earlier decisions and admit those pupils.

    What I continue to find absolutely bewildering is that the educational establishments in all 4 home countries (and in others such as Ireland, apparently) ever thought that an algorithm could produce results that were fair to the individual recipients. It is depressing that the relevant Ministers were either too stupid or too in awe of their "experts" not to immediately challenge this and insist on better but it is at least equally concerning that those in charge of our educational establishments are just completely indifferent to concepts of fairness or opportunity.

    Indeed this has been a failure by the politicians across the UK and not one of them has resigned
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,580

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Why do people consider an apprenticeship only for someone who has not done well in their exams. To be an electrician or a mechanical engineer you have to be reasonably academic. And when you are 21 you will be earning £40,000 per annum and have a trade for life. But hey A-Levels and a degree in Geography which will leave you with massive debts are the way to go if you have done well at School.
    I agree - good apprenticeships are splendid. It's not the kids you have to convince usually, it's the parents, who still largely think that only A levels really count on the road to success. If you look at the media coverage over the last couple of weeks you can sort of see why - masses on A levels, hardly any mention of vocational/BTEC courses or apprenticeships.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,615
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does anyone know how many PR/comms people the government employ already at our expense to do this stuff, and at what cost?
    You need consultants and outside help in times of crisis. That's because they can be quickly mobilised and you can get all hands to the pump for a short period, and then they can demobilise. You can't do this with just the civil service alone.

    In addition the civil service pay bands and pay caps are now so limiting that anyone who knows about commerce, contracts, big programme management and delivery goes to work for the private sector - the civil service can't compete, can't get the skills, and so is obligated to "buy back" the skills through management consultancy frameworks, which cost even more.

    It's a perverse but obvious consequence of the Government pandering to newspaper headlines with public sector pay ("no-one can be paid more than the Prime Minister") and the knee-capping it gets from civil service trade unions in flexing pay.

    A better question is why it's always the Big4, Bain, McKinsey and Boston that get all the contracts, rather than independent experts and consultants. The answer is that the public procurement process is too bureaucratic and sclerotic to allow them in and gives too many hurdles to jump through (including basic turnover and liability insurance pre-qualification criteria) and all those big firms are networked up to the eyeballs with the decision-makers in the public sector.

    So, it won't change any time soon.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,582

    nichomar said:

    Nigelb said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:
    Pretty depressing!

    I do wonder about the US comparisons though. Over there 50%+ of older people are Republicans. They (on average) don't think the virus is such a big deal.

    Here in the UK at least, older people seem pretty scared, so perhaps they will continue to see people less and so protect themselves.
    I’d add that thus far our infection rates have remained much lower than in the US. With sensible measures, they should stay so.
    Until there’s a vaccine, we’re not returning to normal, but if we’re sensible, life should be liveable.
    According to the most recent open source information I can find (here: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/07/oxford-vaccine-enters-final-phase-of-covid-19-trials-in-brazil-cvd/ ), despite the delays caused by not having enough infections in those being tested (which is in all other respects wonderful news), the rollout to Brazil now implies that they'll have enough data on the OxChAd1 vaccine "by November." With, if positive, regulatory approval coming rapidly afterwards and rollout of mass vaccination (thanks to them beginning mass production nearly two months ago on the assumption of success) shortly after that.

    IF successful. Still a big assumption, even if all signs have been pretty positive so far - but if this timeline is followed, and the trials are successful, we should have the data in 11-15 weeks from now, with the rest coming within weeks after that.

    Of course, production and administration of enough vaccine to vaccinate everyone in the UK will take significant time, but simply knowing that it's there, it's coming, and there's a fixed timetable for things to get resolved would be marvellous for a lot of people.
    Who is going to be willingly first in the queue? There are a lot of people who feel it’s been rushed or they are going to be injected with a microchip. It’s going to take some selling
    They need to do some communicating.

    The fact that this articular vaccine has actually been in development for 8 years+ should be mentioned, for a start.
    (Originally designed as an easily-adaptable vaccine against the feared Disease-X, first incarnation as an Ebola vaccine (where, while successful, it lost out to an American vaccine that got through approvals a few weeks sooner), with the vector amended to work against the MERS coronavirus (where, although it was 90% done, funding was cut because it was no longer seen as necessary), and then they saw how close it already was (as a coronavirus vaccine) to Sars-CoV-2).

    It's not much different to the way they adjust the flu vaccine each year.

    But, yes - they need to make sure the information is out there. I'll be one of the first in the queue, for sure.
    I agree with your analysis - and have signed up for the trial, a while back.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,005
    Mr. L, is that surprising, though?

    Politicians of various parties have wibbled about things like porn filters as if algorithms can magically come into being that can determine what is and isn't adult material from a collection of pixels on screen.

    The childlike faith in algorithms to protect kids from such images, or to instantly weed out terrorist materials, is concerning.

    If any good comes from this recent nonsense it might be some politicians realising algorithms are not magic.
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    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,351

    DavidL said:

    Well my son has been described as "the hero of the hour" at his school after getting an answer from the SQA confirming that not only grades but bands would be as per teacher assessment. An anonymised version of his reply has been sent to every sixth former which includes several who did not get confirmation of their offers from Imperial because their bands as assessed by the algorithm did not meet their entry requirements. I very much hope that Imperial and other Universities will be able to review their earlier decisions and admit those pupils.

    What I continue to find absolutely bewildering is that the educational establishments in all 4 home countries (and in others such as Ireland, apparently) ever thought that an algorithm could produce results that were fair to the individual recipients. It is depressing that the relevant Ministers were either too stupid or too in awe of their "experts" not to immediately challenge this and insist on better but it is at least equally concerning that those in charge of our educational establishments are just completely indifferent to concepts of fairness or opportunity.

    Indeed this has been a failure by the politicians across the UK and not one of them has resigned
    Other than not bother with the algorithim and just go with the inflated teachers grades, which is what they have ended up doing after just a couple of days, what else could Politicians have done? This is a unique situation where exams were not taken. I have not seen another alternative, and the Drakeford in Wales wanted to keep the algorithim.
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    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    The one faint silver lining to all this is that the people in charge are surely completely cooked. It has been publicly demonstrated how utterly arrogant, useless and pathetic they are. If OFQUAL still exists on 31st March next year I will be amazed.

    https://twitter.com/PershoreDan/status/1296349926323101696
    NB. All the governments across the UK
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,871
    Scott_xP said:
    Surely we are passed the "little evidence" stage? There is "little evidence" for lots of things that common sense says are likely but have not been rigorously tested.

    We know it spreads a lot indoors if people spend significant time together. Offices are indoors places where people spend significant time together. We dont need lots and lots of clear evidence that it spreads specifically in offices as it does in other indoor buildings.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,380
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Well my son has been described as "the hero of the hour" at his school after getting an answer from the SQA confirming that not only grades but bands would be as per teacher assessment. An anonymised version of his reply has been sent to every sixth former which includes several who did not get confirmation of their offers from Imperial because their bands as assessed by the algorithm did not meet their entry requirements. I very much hope that Imperial and other Universities will be able to review their earlier decisions and admit those pupils.

    What I continue to find absolutely bewildering is that the educational establishments in all 4 home countries (and in others such as Ireland, apparently) ever thought that an algorithm could produce results that were fair to the individual recipients. It is depressing that the relevant Ministers were either too stupid or too in awe of their "experts" not to immediately challenge this and insist on better but it is at least equally concerning that those in charge of our educational establishments are just completely indifferent to concepts of fairness or opportunity.

    But that's the point. The people in charge of the educational establishment are not experts. In fact, most of them are clueless. Experts were frozen out of this process and as they say, sow a wind reap the whirlwind.

    The one faint silver lining to all this is that the people in charge are surely completely cooked. It has been publicly demonstrated how utterly arrogant, useless and pathetic they are. If OFQUAL still exists on 31st March next year I will be amazed.

    Great news for your son, I was hoping that would happen.
    The arrogance and indifference of those in charge makes me really angry and you would think that they will pay the price, if only for making their political masters look more stupid than usual.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,373
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    The one faint silver lining to all this is that the people in charge are surely completely cooked. It has been publicly demonstrated how utterly arrogant, useless and pathetic they are. If OFQUAL still exists on 31st March next year I will be amazed.

    https://twitter.com/PershoreDan/status/1296349926323101696
    Sounds like Brexit trade negotiations.
  • Options
    NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,351

    ydoethur said:

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Why do people consider an apprenticeship only for someone who has not done well in their exams. To be an electrician or a mechanical engineer you have to be reasonably academic. And when you are 21 you will be earning £40,000 per annum and have a trade for life. But hey A-Levels and a degree in Geography which will leave you with massive debts are the way to go if you have done well at School.
    One of the ways I astonish students with a contempt for academic work because they were only interested in a skilled trade is to slap said trade's (e.g. building or electrical engineering) health and safety regulations in front of them and ask them to read it.

    It usually has very good results in terms of concentrating their minds on the importance of English and maths regardless of what you intend to do afterwards.

    Speaking of which - to work.
    The problem is, I think, the hang over of out of date attitudes and beliefs regrading the nature of work.

    Major/Blair pushed the degree-for-all idea. This vision was that everyone would get a degree and get a white collar job to match. Machines would do all the nasty hands dirty stuff. This was based on the old world view - success (and money) was in the office. The workers toiled for pennies.

    The reality was, by that point, the world had changed again. It used to be that "skilled trades" was poorly paid, horrible and also much looked down upon. We now live in a world where the guy passing you in a Tesla X may well be a plumber.

    The differential between the middle class "white collar" income and the "skilled trades" income has disappeared - certainly at the low end. Obviously, a top barrister will be doing better than a carpenter, but a job managing a team at a call centre won't be.

    At the same time, as you say, the academic requirements for "skilled trades" have gone up. The days when you could get by with adding & subtraction are long gone..

    Motivation by practical usage is an interesting point - The son of a friend, who wasn't academic in the university sense, now works as a high end welder, and is doing night classes for the maths and chemistry he needs for that. The linkage between what he likes doing and the knowledge he needs has motivated him, apparently.

    What there is a shortage of is that combination - education and hands on ability.
    The problem is schools, they do not sell Apprenticeships, they want to keep pupils in schools post 16 as they get funding for them. We probably get 10 applications a year for an apprenticeship. Its almost if you apply you get the job. 15 years ago we would get 300 applications a year.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,380

    Scott_xP said:
    A "lost generation." What on earth does that mean? All students have got at least what their teachers predicted, how has that created a lost generation?
    Agreed. That is absolute tosh. There are a whole series of problems arising from this incompetence but that is not one of them. How to deal fairly between the prizes for all this year and (presumably) normality next is perhaps the biggest challenge of all.
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    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,613

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does anyone know how many PR/comms people the government employ already at our expense to do this stuff, and at what cost?
    You need consultants and outside help in times of crisis. That's because they can be quickly mobilised and you can get all hands to the pump for a short period, and then they can demobilise. You can't do this with just the civil service alone.

    In addition the civil service pay bands and pay caps are now so limiting that anyone who knows about commerce, contracts, big programme management and delivery goes to work for the private sector - the civil service can't compete, can't get the skills, and so is obligated to "buy back" the skills through management consultancy frameworks, which cost even more.

    It's a perverse but obvious consequence of the Government pandering to newspaper headlines with public sector pay ("no-one can be paid more than the Prime Minister") and the knee-capping it gets from civil service trade unions in flexing pay.

    A better question is why it's always the Big4, Bain, McKinsey and Boston that get all the contracts, rather than independent experts and consultants. The answer is that the public procurement process is too bureaucratic and sclerotic to allow them in and gives too many hurdles to jump through (including basic turnover and liability insurance pre-qualification criteria) and all those big firms are networked up to the eyeballs with the decision-makers in the public sector.

    So, it won't change any time soon.
    An excellent explanation of how the outstanding performance of our government since March has been ably assisted by a remarkable value for money external agency.

    Is it possible that a government focused on competence would not need to control the 'vision and narrative' as this would speak for itself?

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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,900
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    The very first words written into the record of the Scottish Parliament in 1999 were that it was specifically a reconvention of that closed in 1707. That was not challenged at the time.

    No they were not. Here’s the official record:

    http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=4160

    Welcome to this, the first meeting of the Scottish Parliament established under the Scotland Act 1998. We are gathered on this day and at this time and place, in accordance with The Scottish Parliament (First Ordinary General Election and First Meeting) Order 1999. As provided by the standing orders, my role is to preside over the proceedings to enable the oldest qualified member to take the oath or make a solemn affirmation.

    Which accepts this was a new Parliament established under a new act.

    I’m getting really quite worried that even sensible Nats are getting more and more divorced from reality, like Cummings or Farage. Business for Scotland and the National are we all know fake news websites that can’t be trusted, but Carnyx is a sensible and intelligent poster.

    Yet even he(?) has swallowed the lies of the Nats’ propagandists whole. No wonder support for independence is increasing if this horseshit is swallowed without question.
    But I was right. They were the first words after the Parliament was reconvened. See page 5 here -

    http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=4160&mode=pdf

    And the National is not a fake news site any more than its sister newspaper the Herald is on the other side. (To b e honest, I want my old Scotsman back from the 20th century - it covered both sides ...).
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,373
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does anyone know how many PR/comms people the government employ already at our expense to do this stuff, and at what cost?
    Last I read (STimes I think), Cummings was planning to sweep away huge numbers of departmental press and media people and centralise the comms.

    So, is it centralise at No. 10 or centralise and then outsource?
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    According to a report on the BBC website, the BTec problem is more complex than I thought. The BTec is based on coursework so Pearson had the information needed to give out the correct grades: no algorithm nor teacher assessments required. The problem was these grades were distributed in the same way as before and so, relative to the uplift that the GCSEs received, pupils who took them are now at a disadvantage. The delay is to allow for an adjustment of the grade boundaries to bring them into line with this year’s GCSEs.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,871

    Scott_xP said:
    It is clear what the government’s overriding priority is - to make its mates richer by throwing public money at them. Blessed are those who are friends of Johnson, Gove and Cummings, for they will be levelled up as all around are scorned.

    How does BTEC students still not getting their grades sit with levelling up. How on earth are they going to get a fair shot at university applications?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,380

    I’ve just had an e-mail from a pupil who got a (thoroughly deserved) 9 thanking me; it’s made my day!

    Excellent. Pupils don't do that often enough.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261

    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    The one faint silver lining to all this is that the people in charge are surely completely cooked. It has been publicly demonstrated how utterly arrogant, useless and pathetic they are. If OFQUAL still exists on 31st March next year I will be amazed.

    https://twitter.com/PershoreDan/status/1296349926323101696
    NB. All the governments across the UK
    The not-so-subtle change in those who were clapping their flippers like performing seals when BJ said that Scotland has a particular problem with the resilience of its public services to now bellowing 'Scotland is as shit as the rest of us!' is hilarious.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,900
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    The very first words written into the record of the Scottish Parliament in 1999 were that it was specifically a reconvention of that closed in 1707. That was not challenged at the time.

    No they were not. Here’s the official record:

    http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=4160

    Welcome to this, the first meeting of the Scottish Parliament established under the Scotland Act 1998. We are gathered on this day and at this time and place, in accordance with The Scottish Parliament (First Ordinary General Election and First Meeting) Order 1999. As provided by the standing orders, my role is to preside over the proceedings to enable the oldest qualified member to take the oath or make a solemn affirmation.

    Which accepts this was a new Parliament established under a new act.

    I’m getting really quite worried that even sensible Nats are getting more and more divorced from reality, like Cummings or Farage. Business for Scotland and the National are we all know fake news websites that can’t be trusted, but Carnyx is a sensible and intelligent poster.

    Yet even he(?) has swallowed the lies of the Nats’ propagandists whole. No wonder support for independence is increasing if this horseshit is swallowed without question.
    Ydoethur , you are getting increasingly shrill about independence, is it worrying you that much. Seeing conspiracy everywhere, I am getting concerned about you. Just relax and accept the union is dead , Saor Alba.
    Stop following fake news from deranged xenophobes and the problem vanishes, Malc.

    Whatever the Scots do, I don't want to see a government led by people like Business for Scotland on the northern border of England. They're starting to make me think kindly of Cummings, and I would willingly have sworn that was impossible.
    I only follow one or two individuals and am bright enough to read and understand reality , Business for Scotland are no worse ( and in fact better ) than many shady unionist propaganda units and 77 Brigade , GCHQ etc. You are brainwashed by unionist propaganda and anything in Scotland will be, of no concern to England. I don't see them ( a ONE man band !!!! )crossing under cover of darkness and putting pamphlets up in England.
    I am not brainwashed. I see things as they are.
    One of the most persuasive and winningest arguments evah to be heard on PB.
    I am delighted my sheer brilliance overawes you. I know that we Welsh are naturally awesome but don't worry, we have a deep affection for the Scottish people as well.

    But in this case, as I had refuted a claim by linking to the actual record - as I did before - I'm quite happy that my statement is supported by ample evidence.
    See my comment a moment ago.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,380

    My lad received an excellent set of GCSE results today, but he's not best pleased. Why? Well, he attends a boys' grammar school which also takes girls in the 6th form. However, grade inflation means that more boys than usual will be able to proceed into the 6th form, which means fewer places remaining for students from other schools and, in particular, the local girls' grammar. So although he is pleased to be entering the 6th form, as expected, he says there will be more of the dopey kids who would otherwise have been chucked out and fewer potential girlfriends!

    With strategic thinking like that he will do fine.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,380

    My lad received an excellent set of GCSE results today, but he's not best pleased. Why? Well, he attends a boys' grammar school which also takes girls in the 6th form. However, grade inflation means that more boys than usual will be able to proceed into the 6th form, which means fewer places remaining for students from other schools and, in particular, the local girls' grammar. So although he is pleased to be entering the 6th form, as expected, he says there will be more of the dopey kids who would otherwise have been chucked out and fewer potential girlfriends!

    With strategic thinking like that he will do fine.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,871
    edited August 2020

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does anyone know how many PR/comms people the government employ already at our expense to do this stuff, and at what cost?
    You need consultants and outside help in times of crisis. That's because they can be quickly mobilised and you can get all hands to the pump for a short period, and then they can demobilise. You can't do this with just the civil service alone.

    In addition the civil service pay bands and pay caps are now so limiting that anyone who knows about commerce, contracts, big programme management and delivery goes to work for the private sector - the civil service can't compete, can't get the skills, and so is obligated to "buy back" the skills through management consultancy frameworks, which cost even more.

    It's a perverse but obvious consequence of the Government pandering to newspaper headlines with public sector pay ("no-one can be paid more than the Prime Minister") and the knee-capping it gets from civil service trade unions in flexing pay.

    A better question is why it's always the Big4, Bain, McKinsey and Boston that get all the contracts, rather than independent experts and consultants. The answer is that the public procurement process is too bureaucratic and sclerotic to allow them in and gives too many hurdles to jump through (including basic turnover and liability insurance pre-qualification criteria) and all those big firms are networked up to the eyeballs with the decision-makers in the public sector.

    So, it won't change any time soon.
    To be fair the government seem to be very keen on awarding this new consultancy with lots of work, they dont even have to do the tender stage:

    http://www.publicfirst.co.uk/our-people.html
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    ydoethur said:

    As predicted, GCSE grades have risen significantly, and a much higher proportion have achieved a 'pass' (grade 4 or higher) in English and maths. This means that a) a lot more students than anticipated will be eligible for A-level courses, and b) many of those at the lower end will struggle, as in previous years they would have had to take vocational courses or go on an apprenticeship. It also has implications for teaching capacity and class sizes on A-level courses.

    Why do people consider an apprenticeship only for someone who has not done well in their exams. To be an electrician or a mechanical engineer you have to be reasonably academic. And when you are 21 you will be earning £40,000 per annum and have a trade for life. But hey A-Levels and a degree in Geography which will leave you with massive debts are the way to go if you have done well at School.
    One of the ways I astonish students with a contempt for academic work because they were only interested in a skilled trade is to slap said trade's (e.g. building or electrical engineering) health and safety regulations in front of them and ask them to read it.

    It usually has very good results in terms of concentrating their minds on the importance of English and maths regardless of what you intend to do afterwards.

    Speaking of which - to work.
    "Well, it doesn't matter anyway. I mean, when in the real world am I ever going to need chemistry or history or math or the... English language?"
    Buffy the Vampire Slayer
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,582
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Does anyone know how many PR/comms people the government employ already at our expense to do this stuff, and at what cost?
    You need consultants and outside help in times of crisis. That's because they can be quickly mobilised and you can get all hands to the pump for a short period, and then they can demobilise. You can't do this with just the civil service alone.

    In addition the civil service pay bands and pay caps are now so limiting that anyone who knows about commerce, contracts, big programme management and delivery goes to work for the private sector - the civil service can't compete, can't get the skills, and so is obligated to "buy back" the skills through management consultancy frameworks, which cost even more.

    It's a perverse but obvious consequence of the Government pandering to newspaper headlines with public sector pay ("no-one can be paid more than the Prime Minister") and the knee-capping it gets from civil service trade unions in flexing pay.

    A better question is why it's always the Big4, Bain, McKinsey and Boston that get all the contracts, rather than independent experts and consultants. The answer is that the public procurement process is too bureaucratic and sclerotic to allow them in and gives too many hurdles to jump through (including basic turnover and liability insurance pre-qualification criteria) and all those big firms are networked up to the eyeballs with the decision-makers in the public sector.

    So, it won't change any time soon.
    An excellent explanation of how the outstanding performance of our government since March has been ably assisted by a remarkable value for money external agency.

    Is it possible that a government focused on competence would not need to control the 'vision and narrative' as this would speak for itself?

    This is how it has been run since Blair (and before).

    The Civil Service structure simply doesn't allow for paying a lowly employee more than the "correct" band. And perish the thought that he/she might get paid more than their manager!!!

    Contracting is the way that such constraints have been got round, both in private and public sector - You can't pay a permanent employee more than 45K, but you can pay a consultant 800 a day, for the same job.....
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    Scott_xP said:
    It is clear what the government’s overriding priority is - to make its mates richer by throwing public money at them. Blessed are those who are friends of Johnson, Gove and Cummings, for they will be levelled up as all around are scorned.

    How does BTEC students still not getting their grades sit with levelling up. How on earth are they going to get a fair shot at university applications?
    These are Y11s we are talking about, so it won’t affect university applications for over a year. I expect even Pearson will have sorted them out by then.

    As to the relative levels, it looks like the delay is to allow for that.

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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    The very first words written into the record of the Scottish Parliament in 1999 were that it was specifically a reconvention of that closed in 1707. That was not challenged at the time.

    No they were not. Here’s the official record:

    http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=4160

    Welcome to this, the first meeting of the Scottish Parliament established under the Scotland Act 1998. We are gathered on this day and at this time and place, in accordance with The Scottish Parliament (First Ordinary General Election and First Meeting) Order 1999. As provided by the standing orders, my role is to preside over the proceedings to enable the oldest qualified member to take the oath or make a solemn affirmation.

    Which accepts this was a new Parliament established under a new act.

    I’m getting really quite worried that even sensible Nats are getting more and more divorced from reality, like Cummings or Farage. Business for Scotland and the National are we all know fake news websites that can’t be trusted, but Carnyx is a sensible and intelligent poster.

    Yet even he(?) has swallowed the lies of the Nats’ propagandists whole. No wonder support for independence is increasing if this horseshit is swallowed without question.
    But I was right. They were the first words after the Parliament was reconvened. See page 5 here -

    http://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/report.aspx?r=4160&mode=pdf

    And the National is not a fake news site any more than its sister newspaper the Herald is on the other side. (To b e honest, I want my old Scotsman back from the 20th century - it covered both sides ...).
    What Andrew Neil did to the Scotsman should be the sole reason that his opinion on Scotland should never be listened to (though there are loads of other good reasons).
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,871
    On PublicFirst, they are openly explicit that their viewpoint is to offer the government policies and advice on the basis of party electoral advantage. Should this not be funded by the Tory party?

    http://www.publicfirst.co.uk/why-we-called-our-agency-public-first.html

    "We believe that the best way for businesses to approach their conversations with Government – and indeed to plot their public affairs strategy – is by thinking about the parties’ voters and how the electoral map is changing."
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