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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Wedged: the looming problem for Boris Johnson

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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
  • LadyG said:

    I see we’ve reverted to calling people dicks and dickheads merely for living their lives.

    Hold on a moment. I was referring to the suggestion of coming up with ways to flout the quarantine rules. If you think that is acceptable behaviour then we aren't on the same page.
    Okay. Apologies if so. I read it as meaning his travelling per se.
    Thanks. As you'll see, I got the wrong end of the stick with Sean's post.

    I'm not Sean. Etc. Just sayin'
    You are though, you're not kidding anyone but yourself Sean.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    "The average guy is important to him."

    https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1295782636019949577
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Question:

    I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

    If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

    The form you are required to fill in for border control with details of your whereabouts the previous 14 days
    Ta.

    So you could cross to Turkey, continue the holiday there for 14 days, then come home fine?

    Tempting, in the circs

    Unless of course Turkey also goes tits up

    The best holiday place right now is, weirdly, Italy. They seem to have a real grip on things. I wonder why it is so different there, compared to Spain?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/
    Everything is outdoors, clubs aren't open at all and bars aren't open for indoor business. Everyone very strictly adheres to the mask rules and Italians are very unforgiving towards those who don't wear them. It helps that the outdoor weather is suitable for dining and drinking until late, but either way I'm almost certain that pushing almost everything to being outdoors is the reason.
    But isn't Spanish night time/bar/resto culture almost identical? Maybe the Italians are a little more laid back at night, but I don't see a major difference. Cetainly not a climatic difference.

    And yet Spain has a horror show of a case rate, and Italy has it all under control. Odd.
    It’s hardly surprising that no one knows what the quarantine rules are. Does anyone bar the most extreme covid-fanatic know what any of the rules about anything are these days? I am aware that you have to wear a mask in shops. However, I have forgotten a number of times (eg when paying for petrol) and nobody has said anything.
    Quite, the laws change on a weekly basis, and are not enforced anyway. The govt dont differentiate in the media between law, advice and guidelines. After Cummings my approach is to follow the spirit of what is being asked, incorporating my personal judgment, but not to follow the detail of the law, rules and guidance anymore.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    stodge said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53817886

    More good news from Rishi's scheme.

    Also, when did the IFS become a defender of "equality"? I've noticed it more and more that they are pushing the "poor people matter the most" agenda in everything they do. It's a worthwhile goal but their remit isn't to bang on about equality, it's to try and see how the UK is performing economically and what the fiscal outlook is and what kind of multipliers government policy will have. The eat out scheme must have an absolutely massive economic multiplier, it's an extremely cheap scheme at £500m but it will generate huge economic benefits for the hospitality industry and save far more than that within the furlough scheme.

    Honestly, it actually doesn't matter if poor people can't afford to eat out, they didn't before the virus and they probably won't afterwards. The sector depends on the middle classes going out and spending money on food, booze and tips. It's quite annoying that their insight was "yeah but poor people" and not what kind of multiplier it would have and how good or bad the scheme would be at getting the sector back on its feet. It's not a big deal for me because I have a team of analysts to do that for me, but our research will never see the light of day, where is the public going to learn this stuff from if the IFS is derelicting it's duty to report on the fiscal outlook.

    I give the Eat Out to Help Out two cheers rather than three. There have been some quite unpleasant stories of abuse directed against staff for not having table space for diners and one or two places in coastal towns have opted out of the scheme.

    There's also the question of how much the early week business is affecting the later week and weekend business. My experience of a roast lunch on a Saturday was the venue was exceptionally quiet and the staff confirmed the place was rammed Monday-Wednesday and dead the rest of the week.

    If the total volume of business is simply being redistributed and isn't increasing, I can't quite see the benefit except to the consumer early in the week obviously. If the total volume of business is up 10% on what would normally happen because of the scheme, that's excellent and to be welcome.

    I wonder if the scheme will be prolonged into September but at £500m a month such largesse isn't going to be on the menu forever (pun intended).
    In the BBC article the owner of a restaurant chain has said it is having the intended effect of making people more confident in going out and their weekend bookings are also strong -

    "The Eat Out to Help Out scheme has really been amazing," said Stephen Wall, managing director and co-founder of restaurant chain Pho. "It's so nice to see our restaurants full of happy staff and customers again.

    "It has certainly benefitted our early week figures and seems to have encouraged the British public to dine out safely, as our restaurants are filling up and staying busy throughout the weekend, too."

    It is probably the most successful government policy we've seen in absolutely ages. It is definitely having the intended effect of getting people into restaurants and pubs for the first time and showing people that it is safe to go out again. I don't think they will bother keeping it for September because of that reason, there won't be any need for it. If they do then it might only be for an extra couple of weeks while the weather is good and extra outdoor capacity can be put in place.
    The restaurants on London Rd in Leicester were packed out, mostly with Asian families, and adjacent to the hotspot area. Thanks, but no thanks...

    Dental appointment went well, no major work required on my broken tooth. Continued neglect was the recommendation.
    I didn’t realise Leicester was out of lockdown!
    It isn't. The restaurants and pubs are open though. The restrictions are pretty meaningless, and not being observed.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    LadyG said:

    Charles said:

    LadyG said:

    Question:

    I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

    If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

    Lying on an official government form is an offence (there’s a question about other countries you have been in the last 14 days).

    WHICH IS WHY I ASKED

    I have no intention of breaking the law. I just didn't know what the law WAS
    I know that - hopefully my answer was phrased as a factual response not a criticism.

    As always with a crime it’s a factor of the probability of being caught and the size of the penalty
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Scott_xP said:
    Another time he tried and failed to deliver. At least he is consistent.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Scott_xP said:
    Luckily for Williamson, the algorithm said that he should stay in post.
  • IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    For politicians he doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly. People who wish to conspire and work against him, he has no time for. After what happened under May its rather refreshing - and for people like Hunt who want to do their own thing they can be critics on the outside rather than unreliable on the inside.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    I see we’ve reverted to calling people dicks and dickheads merely for living their lives.

    Hold on a moment. I was referring to the suggestion of coming up with ways to flout the quarantine rules. If you think that is acceptable behaviour then we aren't on the same page.
    I wasn't trying to flout the rules! Look at my comments. I was just trying to find out what the rules actually SAY.

    I am a dutiful citizen and if, when I am in Greece, the government gets all punchy I will do m duty and either stay out there or self isolate when I return, Probably I will stay out there, somewhere
    I apologise for assuming that your intention was less than honourable.

    Apology accepted. You have always been one of PB's gents.
    As have you!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    I think you may have identified the problem...
  • HYUFD said:

    No, Biden is a great friend of Neil Kinnock.

    2020 is basically Farage v Kinnock in UK terms
    So do all of YOUR "great friend"s align 100% with YOUR politics? Hope that is NOT the case!

    You may remember that BoJo famously endorsed Barack Obama, and rubbished (admittedly for cause) Mitt Romney. So does THAT make the PM a wannabe Democrat?
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    LadyG said:

    I see we’ve reverted to calling people dicks and dickheads merely for living their lives.

    Hold on a moment. I was referring to the suggestion of coming up with ways to flout the quarantine rules. If you think that is acceptable behaviour then we aren't on the same page.
    Okay. Apologies if so. I read it as meaning his travelling per se.
    Thanks. As you'll see, I got the wrong end of the stick with Sean's post.

    I'm not Sean. Etc. Just sayin'
    You are though, you're not kidding anyone but yourself Sean.
    With hindsight I think you are correct
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    LadyG said:

    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Because the useless twat supported BoZo and Brexit.

    QED
  • Remarkable.

    Certainly not a video you could imagine made about Trump.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited August 2020

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Oldham in Greater Manchester is 48 hours away from potentially being ordered into a “catastrophic” and “premature” local lockdown, its council leader has warned.

    Ireland looks as if it has problems
    And meanwhile, the UK seven day average for cases confirmed by test appears to be levelling off, and the total number of Covid patients left in hospital is now just under 900 and has resumed its trend downwards.

    We can't be that different to Ireland - can we? Goodness knows what's going on.
    I think it is young people who may be an issue with covid compliance in most of the recent problems
    They are out here but so are family and friends gatherings.
    Considering COVID barely touches the young, and considering the privations we have subjected them to, we can only marvel at the level of their obedience this far in the UK.

    It might not go on for ever.
    Just did a walk around leafy north London: Hampstead, Belsize, Primrose Hill.

    A pleasant soft summer evening, and all the restaurants are absolutely RAMMED with people, young and old, enjoying the Eat Out to Help Out. Several places had long queues.

    I did my bit last night with my new girlfriend. Ate her out. Everyone has to help.
    Did she ask for your voucher?
    From the BBC site:

    "No vouchers are needed, with the participating establishment simply deducting 50% from the bill, up to the £10 per person maximum, and reclaiming the money from the Treasury."
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    edited August 2020
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Question:

    I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

    If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

    The form you are required to fill in for border control with details of your whereabouts the previous 14 days
    Ta.

    So you could cross to Turkey, continue the holiday there for 14 days, then come home fine?

    Tempting, in the circs

    Unless of course Turkey also goes tits up

    The best holiday place right now is, weirdly, Italy. They seem to have a real grip on things. I wonder why it is so different there, compared to Spain?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/
    Everything is outdoors, clubs aren't open at all and bars aren't open for indoor business. Everyone very strictly adheres to the mask rules and Italians are very unforgiving towards those who don't wear them. It helps that the outdoor weather is suitable for dining and drinking until late, but either way I'm almost certain that pushing almost everything to being outdoors is the reason.
    But isn't Spanish night time/bar/resto culture almost identical? Maybe the Italians are a little more laid back at night, but I don't see a major difference. Cetainly not a climatic difference.

    And yet Spain has a horror show of a case rate, and Italy has it all under control. Odd.
    Spain opened up its nightclubs and bars, loads of young people got infected, those young people are waiters, barmaids and baristas during the day coming into contact, usually indoors, with the wider public and in Spain young people live with their parents until they turn ~27-29 so there was also a lot of in home transmission.

    It's clubs and bars that seem to be the most likely transmission vector. Dancing, sweating, singing and shouting, all of them are likely to cause transmission.
    And Italy didn't open clubs?

    Genuine question. if that's the case then yes it explains the difference.

    Opening clubs does seem to be absolutely stupid. They're gonna have to stay shut til a vaccine, I fear. Which is terrible for places like Ibiza but a sweaty crowded Spanish nightclub is the perfect vector,

    I have also heard that the French have gone back to le bisou - the actual touchy kiss as greeting - which alone explains their problem.

    Thank God for British chilliness.
    BC opened night clubs and strip clubs in June. They are being identified as the cause of many clustered outbreaks. This really ought not to be a surprise to anyone.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Scott_xP said:
    Luckily for Williamson, the algorithm said that he should stay in post.
    I'm surpised he didn't train the algorithm to give Boris a U and bump himself up a couple of grades to PM.
  • Scott_xP said:

    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    FFS
    I stand by what I said.
  • HYUFD said:

    No, Biden is a great friend of Neil Kinnock.

    2020 is basically Farage v Kinnock in UK terms
    No, it's Ben Stiller v Vince Vaughn in "Dodgeball" - Average Joe's! :)
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    LadyG said:

    nichomar said:

    IanB2 said:

    Oldham in Greater Manchester is 48 hours away from potentially being ordered into a “catastrophic” and “premature” local lockdown, its council leader has warned.

    Ireland looks as if it has problems
    And meanwhile, the UK seven day average for cases confirmed by test appears to be levelling off, and the total number of Covid patients left in hospital is now just under 900 and has resumed its trend downwards.

    We can't be that different to Ireland - can we? Goodness knows what's going on.
    I think it is young people who may be an issue with covid compliance in most of the recent problems
    They are out here but so are family and friends gatherings.
    Considering COVID barely touches the young, and considering the privations we have subjected them to, we can only marvel at the level of their obedience this far in the UK.

    It might not go on for ever.
    Just did a walk around leafy north London: Hampstead, Belsize, Primrose Hill.

    A pleasant soft summer evening, and all the restaurants are absolutely RAMMED with people, young and old, enjoying the Eat Out to Help Out. Several places had long queues.

    I did my bit last night with my new girlfriend. Ate her out. Everyone has to help.
    Did she ask for your voucher?
    From the BBC site:

    "No vouchers are needed, with the participating establishment simply deducting 50% from the bill, up to the £10 per person maximum, and reclaiming the money from the Treasury."
    Woosh!
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    For politicians he doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly. People who wish to conspire and work against him, he has no time for. After what happened under May its rather refreshing - and for people like Hunt who want to do their own thing they can be critics on the outside rather than unreliable on the inside.
    Patel? Truss?

    My god, that is desperate stuff.
    Both very good.

    Truss is one of the most underrated Cabinet Ministers of the last decade. She doesn't get a lot of attention but I have a lot of respect for her.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Scott_xP said:

    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    FFS
    I stand by what I said.
    You are HY FUD and I claim my 2 shillings 6.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Both very good.

    At what?
  • LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    I see we’ve reverted to calling people dicks and dickheads merely for living their lives.

    Hold on a moment. I was referring to the suggestion of coming up with ways to flout the quarantine rules. If you think that is acceptable behaviour then we aren't on the same page.
    I wasn't trying to flout the rules! Look at my comments. I was just trying to find out what the rules actually SAY.

    I am a dutiful citizen and if, when I am in Greece, the government gets all punchy I will do m duty and either stay out there or self isolate when I return, Probably I will stay out there, somewhere
    I apologise for assuming that your intention was less than honourable.

    Apology accepted. You have always been one of PB's gents.
    As have you!
    I see what you did there
  • Re: Joe Biden, have an acquaintance who is from Delaware, and though he's never met Uncle Joe OR Aunt Jill, his parents have:

    >> his father is a member of Delaware State Police, and met Biden on several occasions on official business; said he was both impressive and a mensch.

    >> his mother works for USPS at post office in Newark, Del home of U of D where Jill Biden was teaching, and Mrs B used to stop by to mail packages; she said JB was quite nice and very friendly.

    Keep in mind that just about every man, woman, child and dog in the Blue Hen State has no more than two degrees of separation from either of the Bidens. And from scattered reports, methinks they are truly popular on their home turf, even with folks who do NOT agree with their politics.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    Do not assume a Nationalist majority is inevitable.

    I think it increasingly likely all Unionist parties will combine under 1 Unionist Alliance ticket led by Ruth Davidson, just standing one Unionist candidate at constituency level at Holyrood against the SNP, with the Unionist parties only standing separately against each other as Tories, Labour and LD on the Holyrood list.

    Thus maximising the number of Unionist MSPs to stop a Nationalist SNP or SNP and Green majority

    I really cannot see Labour agreeing to that. It would play into the hands of the SNP by effectively repeating the 2014 mistake of combining in the Better Together campaign.
  • Wait so @LadyG is Sean and HYUFD is Philip?

    Makes sense now.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Some minor snippets from life today.

    The exams debacle has knocked on to my son's 6th form - enrolment and term start have been postponed for a week.

    Also went to the local dump for the first time since COVID, which was a palaver beyond anything I expected. Each car was distanced so that only 5 could dump at any one time (down from 12-13 normally), but then you only had access to your own preferred recycling skip and a mixed waste one (and no access to paper/glass recycling etc. So most recycling had to go to landfill.

    If I can find my way round Sainsbury's social distancing, I can find my way around 4 other people in a large, outdoor dump-it site, without further limitation. Absurd.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Scott_xP said:
    In the New Year a whole load of them will have to be blamed and sacked for the No Deal chaos at Dover and empty shelves at supermarkets.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    For politicians he doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly. People who wish to conspire and work against him, he has no time for. After what happened under May its rather refreshing - and for people like Hunt who want to do their own thing they can be critics on the outside rather than unreliable on the inside.
    Patel? Truss?

    My god, that is desperate stuff.
    Both very good.

    Truss is one of the most underrated Cabinet Ministers of the last decade. She doesn't get a lot of attention but I have a lot of respect for her.
    At least we are now down to Sunak and Truss.

    I am guessing you like cheese?

    Sunak’s test will come when he starts trying to pay off his bills.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Both very good.

    At what?
    Annoying you
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do not assume a Nationalist majority is inevitable.

    I think it increasingly likely all Unionist parties will combine under 1 Unionist Alliance ticket led by Ruth Davidson, just standing one Unionist candidate at constituency level at Holyrood against the SNP, with the Unionist parties only standing separately against each other as Tories, Labour and LD on the Holyrood list.

    Thus maximising the number of Unionist MSPs to stop a Nationalist SNP or SNP and Green majority

    I really cannot see Labour agreeing to that. It would play into the hands of the SNP by effectively repeating the 2014 mistake of combining in the Better Together campaign.
    The same Better Together campaign that won the 2014 referendum by a comfortable 55% to 45% margin?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Would you believe it - there is a thread on the Rail Forums site where people are discussing AV!

    https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/uk-voting-system.207975/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Scott_xP said:
    In the New Year a whole load of them will have to be blamed and sacked for the No Deal chaos at Dover and empty shelves at supermarkets.
    Yes but they have to stay in place to vote for it first!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    stodge said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53817886

    More good news from Rishi's scheme.

    Also, when did the IFS become a defender of "equality"? I've noticed it more and more that they are pushing the "poor people matter the most" agenda in everything they do. It's a worthwhile goal but their remit isn't to bang on about equality, it's to try and see how the UK is performing economically and what the fiscal outlook is and what kind of multipliers government policy will have. The eat out scheme must have an absolutely massive economic multiplier, it's an extremely cheap scheme at £500m but it will generate huge economic benefits for the hospitality industry and save far more than that within the furlough scheme.

    Honestly, it actually doesn't matter if poor people can't afford to eat out, they didn't before the virus and they probably won't afterwards. The sector depends on the middle classes going out and spending money on food, booze and tips. It's quite annoying that their insight was "yeah but poor people" and not what kind of multiplier it would have and how good or bad the scheme would be at getting the sector back on its feet. It's not a big deal for me because I have a team of analysts to do that for me, but our research will never see the light of day, where is the public going to learn this stuff from if the IFS is derelicting it's duty to report on the fiscal outlook.

    I give the Eat Out to Help Out two cheers rather than three. There have been some quite unpleasant stories of abuse directed against staff for not having table space for diners and one or two places in coastal towns have opted out of the scheme.

    There's also the question of how much the early week business is affecting the later week and weekend business. My experience of a roast lunch on a Saturday was the venue was exceptionally quiet and the staff confirmed the place was rammed Monday-Wednesday and dead the rest of the week.

    If the total volume of business is simply being redistributed and isn't increasing, I can't quite see the benefit except to the consumer early in the week obviously. If the total volume of business is up 10% on what would normally happen because of the scheme, that's excellent and to be welcome.

    I wonder if the scheme will be prolonged into September but at £500m a month such largesse isn't going to be on the menu forever (pun intended).
    In the BBC article the owner of a restaurant chain has said it is having the intended effect of making people more confident in going out and their weekend bookings are also strong -

    "The Eat Out to Help Out scheme has really been amazing," said Stephen Wall, managing director and co-founder of restaurant chain Pho. "It's so nice to see our restaurants full of happy staff and customers again.

    "It has certainly benefitted our early week figures and seems to have encouraged the British public to dine out safely, as our restaurants are filling up and staying busy throughout the weekend, too."

    It is probably the most successful government policy we've seen in absolutely ages. It is definitely having the intended effect of getting people into restaurants and pubs for the first time and showing people that it is safe to go out again. I don't think they will bother keeping it for September because of that reason, there won't be any need for it. If they do then it might only be for an extra couple of weeks while the weather is good and extra outdoor capacity can be put in place.
    The restaurants on London Rd in Leicester were packed out, mostly with Asian families, and adjacent to the hotspot area. Thanks, but no thanks...

    Dental appointment went well, no major work required on my broken tooth. Continued neglect was the recommendation.
    I didn’t realise Leicester was out of lockdown!
    It isn't. The restaurants and pubs are open though. The restrictions are pretty meaningless, and not being observed.
    A McDonalds breakfast in Port Talbot yesterday meant I had to complete my track and trace details. Table cleansed before use. Today a MaccyDs breakfast in Malvern no sign of track and trace and guided to a dirty table.

    So just the coronary in Wales and a coronary and Coronavirus in England.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited August 2020
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do not assume a Nationalist majority is inevitable.

    I think it increasingly likely all Unionist parties will combine under 1 Unionist Alliance ticket led by Ruth Davidson, just standing one Unionist candidate at constituency level at Holyrood against the SNP, with the Unionist parties only standing separately against each other as Tories, Labour and LD on the Holyrood list.

    Thus maximising the number of Unionist MSPs to stop a Nationalist SNP or SNP and Green majority

    I really cannot see Labour agreeing to that. It would play into the hands of the SNP by effectively repeating the 2014 mistake of combining in the Better Together campaign.
    The same Better Together campaign that won the 2014 referendum by a comfortable 55% to 45% margin?
    BUT point is, Labour took a political hit for the cause of preserving the union.

    Is YOUR party ready and willing (to say nothing of able) to do the same, for a cause (allegedly) so central to its own existence?

    Of course, political parties exist to do good (as they see it) AND also to maintain their existence. SO can forgive Labour, CUP, LDs AND SNP (and even Cornish Nats) for neither forgetting nor foregoing the 2nd imperative.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    FFS
    I stand by what I said.
    You are HY FUD and I claim my 2 shillings 6.
    You are one half of the Bananas in Pyjamas and I claim my 50 Australian Cents.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    For politicians he doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly. People who wish to conspire and work against him, he has no time for. After what happened under May its rather refreshing - and for people like Hunt who want to do their own thing they can be critics on the outside rather than unreliable on the inside.
    Patel? Truss?

    My god, that is desperate stuff.
    Both very good.

    Truss is one of the most underrated Cabinet Ministers of the last decade. She doesn't get a lot of attention but I have a lot of respect for her.
    At least we are now down to Sunak and Truss.

    I am guessing you like cheese?

    Sunak’s test will come when he starts trying to pay off his bills.
    I do like cheese. And pork.

    She gets laughed at, but she is very good.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Question:

    I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

    If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

    The form you are required to fill in for border control with details of your whereabouts the previous 14 days
    Ta.

    So you could cross to Turkey, continue the holiday there for 14 days, then come home fine?

    Tempting, in the circs

    Unless of course Turkey also goes tits up

    The best holiday place right now is, weirdly, Italy. They seem to have a real grip on things. I wonder why it is so different there, compared to Spain?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/
    Everything is outdoors, clubs aren't open at all and bars aren't open for indoor business. Everyone very strictly adheres to the mask rules and Italians are very unforgiving towards those who don't wear them. It helps that the outdoor weather is suitable for dining and drinking until late, but either way I'm almost certain that pushing almost everything to being outdoors is the reason.
    But isn't Spanish night time/bar/resto culture almost identical? Maybe the Italians are a little more laid back at night, but I don't see a major difference. Cetainly not a climatic difference.

    And yet Spain has a horror show of a case rate, and Italy has it all under control. Odd.
    It’s hardly surprising that no one knows what the quarantine rules are. Does anyone bar the most extreme covid-fanatic know what any of the rules about anything are these days? I am aware that you have to wear a mask in shops. However, I have forgotten a number of times (eg when paying for petrol) and nobody has said anything.
    Quite, the laws change on a weekly basis, and are not enforced anyway. The govt dont differentiate in the media between law, advice and guidelines. After Cummings my approach is to follow the spirit of what is being asked, incorporating my personal judgment, but not to follow the detail of the law, rules and guidance anymore.
    FWIW, round our way businesses apply the rules quite strictly (well spaced tables with waiter service in restaurants and pubs, mask use and regulated numbers in shops, pre-booked slots and zoning in the gym, and so on,) which means you don't have to think about very much apart from co-operating with them nicely. I think most of us are still dimly aware of the 2m rule as well, but you don't spend long enough near people you might walk past on the street or in the park for it to make any difference regardless.

    One assumes that this must be working in most of the UK because there is so little Covid left, and no sign of a broadly based resurgence either. The section of the main gov.uk coronavirus dashboard devoted to cases contains a nice little interactive map showing the numbers of cases confirmed by test by locality in England; vast swathes of the country contain almost no such cases at all.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    Pagan2 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Legality of Scotsref2 is important via a vis Madrid and EU membership. But Scotland is in an act of union with England, not part of' the Kingdom of England' as Wales was folded up into - so I think there's enough law on the Mats side to force it regardless of Johnson's wishes if push comes to shove

    No. Boris will not grant a referendum because of the reason Meeks cites: there's a good chance he will lose it (though remember these polls could change, volatility is the order of the day).

    He will use the "once in a generation" line, and the fact this *might* cause extra grievance in Scotland will not bother him, given that he's likely to lose anyway. Better to wait, hand over the mess to the next government. He is determined not to be the PM that loses the Union. He will not risk it.

    And if it goes to the Supreme Court the govt will win, referendums are a reserved matter: an issue for Westminster. This isn't a legal grey area.

    All that said, Meeks is right on his central point, a massive constitutional brouhaha is a-coming, which will reach its peak in the late 2020s. What joy.

    I see two ways of defusing it:

    1, a huge royal commission establishing a proper Federal Britain with a new House of Federal Lords (in Edinburgh?)

    2, Labour promising a new referendum in 2024, taking us back into the EU. The more I think about it, the more I see this as possible. We're in for a torrid few years and by 2023 rejoining the EU might seem quite seductive: and it would likely solve the Scottish problem (and give Starmer some Scots MPs)
    Interesting. How torrid is torrid?

    Given that the midpoint British view right now seems to be "This is very possibly a mistake, but we have to go through with it", how wrongly does it have to go for a "Shall we return to the loving arms of Mother Brussels" to be an attractive question in 2024? Because SKS is a proven lawyer, and will only ask a question whose answer he knows already.
    I mean: a horrific crash in the UK economy (worse than our neighbours France, Germany etc) partly because of the implosion of central London.

    Add to that a 2nd Covid wave, a messy Brexit (which satisfies no one), continuing economic stagnation, and the looming constitutional crisis in Scotland.

    Remainerism could return in force as Rejoinerism, as it might seem a panacea. Rejoining also,of course, solves the Scottish problem in one go (if we Rejoin).

    There's no way a Tory leader would ever countenance it, but if all these ducks line up I could see Starmer going for it: with the added bonus that it would boost Labour in Scotland in 2024 (if they get a decent leader).

    I don't see this as likely, But it is now certainly possible.
    It really doesn't matter what starmer goes for. We will be in an economic crisis due to Covid still. This country has never put labour in power when the economy is dodgy.
    1964?
    And 1974 Also 1945!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Question:

    I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

    If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

    The form you are required to fill in for border control with details of your whereabouts the previous 14 days
    Ta.

    So you could cross to Turkey, continue the holiday there for 14 days, then come home fine?

    Tempting, in the circs

    Unless of course Turkey also goes tits up

    The best holiday place right now is, weirdly, Italy. They seem to have a real grip on things. I wonder why it is so different there, compared to Spain?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/
    Yes, I’ll be off to Italy early next month.

    Obviously, if you spend 14 days after your visit to a quarantine-able country in a non-quarantineable one, before returning to the UK, you don’t have to go into quarantine. Hence my drive out will be via France but I have rearranged the drive back via Switzerland and Germany. Transiting through France is OK provided you don’t get out of the car.

    The Italians really are taking things very seriously. Their crisis was so stark and concentrated in one region (really one part of one region) that they all got the message way back.
    Mad times! But your plan is sensible.

    If Greece does get the ban hammer, I think I will get a ferry over to Bari and spend my fortnight in Puglia. Never been. Hear its nice. Then come home

    It's a superb excuse to extend a nice trip to the Med.
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Question:

    I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

    If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

    The form you are required to fill in for border control with details of your whereabouts the previous 14 days
    Ta.

    So you could cross to Turkey, continue the holiday there for 14 days, then come home fine?

    Tempting, in the circs

    Unless of course Turkey also goes tits up

    The best holiday place right now is, weirdly, Italy. They seem to have a real grip on things. I wonder why it is so different there, compared to Spain?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/
    Everything is outdoors, clubs aren't open at all and bars aren't open for indoor business. Everyone very strictly adheres to the mask rules and Italians are very unforgiving towards those who don't wear them. It helps that the outdoor weather is suitable for dining and drinking until late, but either way I'm almost certain that pushing almost everything to being outdoors is the reason.
    But isn't Spanish night time/bar/resto culture almost identical? Maybe the Italians are a little more laid back at night, but I don't see a major difference. Cetainly not a climatic difference.

    And yet Spain has a horror show of a case rate, and Italy has it all under control. Odd.
    There is the minor difference that the late night Spanish bars and clubs are open, whereas in Italy they are shut.

    One also wonders whether the nature of tourism in the respective countries is rather different.
    Yeah I think the second point is a factor as well. Tourism to Italy seems to be couples aged 25-40 looking for good food, wine and weather. Tourism to Spain is more geared towards groups of 18-30 year olds looking to get wankered. No one comes to Italy on a lads holiday, it just wouldn't make any sense. We're going to the opera tomorrow to see Tristan and Isolde, it's about as far away as one could get from a lads holiday.
    Do 18-30 year olds get wankered anymore?

    They seem to mostly congregate to look at their phones together from what I see of my neighbours.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    Pro_Rata said:

    Some minor snippets from life today.

    The exams debacle has knocked on to my son's 6th form - enrolment and term start have been postponed for a week.

    Also went to the local dump for the first time since COVID, which was a palaver beyond anything I expected. Each car was distanced so that only 5 could dump at any one time (down from 12-13 normally), but then you only had access to your own preferred recycling skip and a mixed waste one (and no access to paper/glass recycling etc. So most recycling had to go to landfill.

    If I can find my way round Sainsbury's social distancing, I can find my way around 4 other people in a large, outdoor dump-it site, without further limitation. Absurd.

    Another example of the complete loss of any sense of proportion.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    She gets laughed at, but she is very good.

    At what?
  • Would you believe it - there is a thread on the Rail Forums site where people are discussing AV!

    https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/uk-voting-system.207975/

    Adult Videos? Count me in! :lol:
  • HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do not assume a Nationalist majority is inevitable.

    I think it increasingly likely all Unionist parties will combine under 1 Unionist Alliance ticket led by Ruth Davidson, just standing one Unionist candidate at constituency level at Holyrood against the SNP, with the Unionist parties only standing separately against each other as Tories, Labour and LD on the Holyrood list.

    Thus maximising the number of Unionist MSPs to stop a Nationalist SNP or SNP and Green majority

    I really cannot see Labour agreeing to that. It would play into the hands of the SNP by effectively repeating the 2014 mistake of combining in the Better Together campaign.
    The same Better Together campaign that won the 2014 referendum by a comfortable 55% to 45% margin?
    And resulted in Labour losing all of its seats
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    edited August 2020

    HYUFD said:

    No, Biden is a great friend of Neil Kinnock.

    2020 is basically Farage v Kinnock in UK terms
    So do all of YOUR "great friend"s align 100% with YOUR politics? Hope that is NOT the case!

    You may remember that BoJo famously endorsed Barack Obama, and rubbished (admittedly for cause) Mitt Romney. So does THAT make the PM a wannabe Democrat?
    They became great friends as Biden plagiarised a Kinnock speech, in UK terms no way would he be a Tory, Biden is basically Starmer Labour.

    BoJo has built a solid relationship with Trump who also hates Romney.

    Boris also never endorsed Obama, in fact he criticised him for removing the Churchill bust because of his 'part Kenyan ancestry'
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,487

    Would you believe it - there is a thread on the Rail Forums site where people are discussing AV!

    https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/uk-voting-system.207975/

    That's nothing.

    We're on an AV forum here discussing railways.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    stodge said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53817886

    More good news from Rishi's scheme.

    Also, when did the IFS become a defender of "equality"? I've noticed it more and more that they are pushing the "poor people matter the most" agenda in everything they do. It's a worthwhile goal but their remit isn't to bang on about equality, it's to try and see how the UK is performing economically and what the fiscal outlook is and what kind of multipliers government policy will have. The eat out scheme must have an absolutely massive economic multiplier, it's an extremely cheap scheme at £500m but it will generate huge economic benefits for the hospitality industry and save far more than that within the furlough scheme.

    Honestly, it actually doesn't matter if poor people can't afford to eat out, they didn't before the virus and they probably won't afterwards. The sector depends on the middle classes going out and spending money on food, booze and tips. It's quite annoying that their insight was "yeah but poor people" and not what kind of multiplier it would have and how good or bad the scheme would be at getting the sector back on its feet. It's not a big deal for me because I have a team of analysts to do that for me, but our research will never see the light of day, where is the public going to learn this stuff from if the IFS is derelicting it's duty to report on the fiscal outlook.

    I give the Eat Out to Help Out two cheers rather than three. There have been some quite unpleasant stories of abuse directed against staff for not having table space for diners and one or two places in coastal towns have opted out of the scheme.

    There's also the question of how much the early week business is affecting the later week and weekend business. My experience of a roast lunch on a Saturday was the venue was exceptionally quiet and the staff confirmed the place was rammed Monday-Wednesday and dead the rest of the week.

    If the total volume of business is simply being redistributed and isn't increasing, I can't quite see the benefit except to the consumer early in the week obviously. If the total volume of business is up 10% on what would normally happen because of the scheme, that's excellent and to be welcome.

    I wonder if the scheme will be prolonged into September but at £500m a month such largesse isn't going to be on the menu forever (pun intended).
    In the BBC article the owner of a restaurant chain has said it is having the intended effect of making people more confident in going out and their weekend bookings are also strong -

    "The Eat Out to Help Out scheme has really been amazing," said Stephen Wall, managing director and co-founder of restaurant chain Pho. "It's so nice to see our restaurants full of happy staff and customers again.

    "It has certainly benefitted our early week figures and seems to have encouraged the British public to dine out safely, as our restaurants are filling up and staying busy throughout the weekend, too."

    It is probably the most successful government policy we've seen in absolutely ages. It is definitely having the intended effect of getting people into restaurants and pubs for the first time and showing people that it is safe to go out again. I don't think they will bother keeping it for September because of that reason, there won't be any need for it. If they do then it might only be for an extra couple of weeks while the weather is good and extra outdoor capacity can be put in place.
    The restaurants on London Rd in Leicester were packed out, mostly with Asian families, and adjacent to the hotspot area. Thanks, but no thanks...

    Dental appointment went well, no major work required on my broken tooth. Continued neglect was the recommendation.
    I didn’t realise Leicester was out of lockdown!
    It isn't. The restaurants and pubs are open though. The restrictions are pretty meaningless, and not being observed.
    If the pubs and bars are open, how is it in lockdown?
  • Philip/HYUFD thinking Truss is good makes a lot of sense
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    For politicians he doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly. People who wish to conspire and work against him, he has no time for. After what happened under May its rather refreshing - and for people like Hunt who want to do their own thing they can be critics on the outside rather than unreliable on the inside.
    Patel and Truss? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do not assume a Nationalist majority is inevitable.

    I think it increasingly likely all Unionist parties will combine under 1 Unionist Alliance ticket led by Ruth Davidson, just standing one Unionist candidate at constituency level at Holyrood against the SNP, with the Unionist parties only standing separately against each other as Tories, Labour and LD on the Holyrood list.

    Thus maximising the number of Unionist MSPs to stop a Nationalist SNP or SNP and Green majority

    I really cannot see Labour agreeing to that. It would play into the hands of the SNP by effectively repeating the 2014 mistake of combining in the Better Together campaign.
    The same Better Together campaign that won the 2014 referendum by a comfortable 55% to 45% margin?
    And grievously damaged SLab, probably beyond repair. I may be over optimistic, but I don't think even they're dumb enough to fall for that again (though the current crop of SCon might be dumb enough to try it on).
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Question:

    I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

    If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

    The form you are required to fill in for border control with details of your whereabouts the previous 14 days
    Ta.

    So you could cross to Turkey, continue the holiday there for 14 days, then come home fine?

    Tempting, in the circs

    Unless of course Turkey also goes tits up

    The best holiday place right now is, weirdly, Italy. They seem to have a real grip on things. I wonder why it is so different there, compared to Spain?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/
    Everything is outdoors, clubs aren't open at all and bars aren't open for indoor business. Everyone very strictly adheres to the mask rules and Italians are very unforgiving towards those who don't wear them. It helps that the outdoor weather is suitable for dining and drinking until late, but either way I'm almost certain that pushing almost everything to being outdoors is the reason.
    But isn't Spanish night time/bar/resto culture almost identical? Maybe the Italians are a little more laid back at night, but I don't see a major difference. Cetainly not a climatic difference.

    And yet Spain has a horror show of a case rate, and Italy has it all under control. Odd.
    It’s hardly surprising that no one knows what the quarantine rules are. Does anyone bar the most extreme covid-fanatic know what any of the rules about anything are these days? I am aware that you have to wear a mask in shops. However, I have forgotten a number of times (eg when paying for petrol) and nobody has said anything.
    Quite, the laws change on a weekly basis, and are not enforced anyway. The govt dont differentiate in the media between law, advice and guidelines. After Cummings my approach is to follow the spirit of what is being asked, incorporating my personal judgment, but not to follow the detail of the law, rules and guidance anymore.
    FWIW, round our way businesses apply the rules quite strictly (well spaced tables with waiter service in restaurants and pubs, mask use and regulated numbers in shops, pre-booked slots and zoning in the gym, and so on,) which means you don't have to think about very much apart from co-operating with them nicely. I think most of us are still dimly aware of the 2m rule as well, but you don't spend long enough near people you might walk past on the street or in the park for it to make any difference regardless.

    One assumes that this must be working in most of the UK because there is so little Covid left, and no sign of a broadly based resurgence either. The section of the main gov.uk coronavirus dashboard devoted to cases contains a nice little interactive map showing the numbers of cases confirmed by test by locality in England; vast swathes of the country contain almost no such cases at all.
    Yes its broadly working and most people are broadly doing as intended. Thats not happening from people understanding and following the law or the detail of the govts "non law rules" but from following the spirit of it.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    For politicians he doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly. People who wish to conspire and work against him, he has no time for. After what happened under May its rather refreshing - and for people like Hunt who want to do their own thing they can be critics on the outside rather than unreliable on the inside.
    Patel? Truss?

    My god, that is desperate stuff.
    Both very good.

    Truss is one of the most underrated Cabinet Ministers of the last decade. She doesn't get a lot of attention but I have a lot of respect for her.
    At least we are now down to Sunak and Truss.

    I am guessing you like cheese?

    Sunak’s test will come when he starts trying to pay off his bills.
    I do like cheese. And pork.

    She gets laughed at, but she is very good.
    Wasn’t she caught having sex with one of her advisors in her office?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2020
    Scott_xP said:

    She gets laughed at, but she is very good.

    At what?
    She is a genuine free market conservative who believes in free trade and makes the case for it very well. She understands what she is talking about and is not just jumping on a bandwagon. She is a perfect person to be in control of the International Trade department.

    She has achieved more in a year at International Trade than Fox was able to achieve in three years. Fox was loud and obnoxious and grandiose and incompetent, full of grand promises but he got nothing done. Truss is quietly and routinely getting on with the job.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138
    edited August 2020

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do not assume a Nationalist majority is inevitable.

    I think it increasingly likely all Unionist parties will combine under 1 Unionist Alliance ticket led by Ruth Davidson, just standing one Unionist candidate at constituency level at Holyrood against the SNP, with the Unionist parties only standing separately against each other as Tories, Labour and LD on the Holyrood list.

    Thus maximising the number of Unionist MSPs to stop a Nationalist SNP or SNP and Green majority

    I really cannot see Labour agreeing to that. It would play into the hands of the SNP by effectively repeating the 2014 mistake of combining in the Better Together campaign.
    The same Better Together campaign that won the 2014 referendum by a comfortable 55% to 45% margin?
    And resulted in Labour losing all of its seats
    So what, it only has 1 left now and has nothing to lose.

    Indeed Labour candidates standing under a Unionist Alliance ticket might even gain seats at Holyrood
  • Gavin Williamson looks like the kind of man that can't open a door without his Mummy's help
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    For politicians he doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly. People who wish to conspire and work against him, he has no time for. After what happened under May its rather refreshing - and for people like Hunt who want to do their own thing they can be critics on the outside rather than unreliable on the inside.
    Patel? Truss?

    My god, that is desperate stuff.
    Both very good.

    Truss is one of the most underrated Cabinet Ministers of the last decade. She doesn't get a lot of attention but I have a lot of respect for her.
    At least we are now down to Sunak and Truss.

    I am guessing you like cheese?

    Sunak’s test will come when he starts trying to pay off his bills.
    I do like cheese. And pork.

    She gets laughed at, but she is very good.
    Wasn’t she caught having sex with one of her advisors in her office?
    I don't know and couldn't care less. People have sex, don't be a prude.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do not assume a Nationalist majority is inevitable.

    I think it increasingly likely all Unionist parties will combine under 1 Unionist Alliance ticket led by Ruth Davidson, just standing one Unionist candidate at constituency level at Holyrood against the SNP, with the Unionist parties only standing separately against each other as Tories, Labour and LD on the Holyrood list.

    Thus maximising the number of Unionist MSPs to stop a Nationalist SNP or SNP and Green majority

    I really cannot see Labour agreeing to that. It would play into the hands of the SNP by effectively repeating the 2014 mistake of combining in the Better Together campaign.
    The same Better Together campaign that won the 2014 referendum by a comfortable 55% to 45% margin?
    BUT point is, Labour took a political hit for the cause of preserving the union.

    Is YOUR party ready and willing (to say nothing of able) to do the same, for a cause (allegedly) so central to its own existence?
    If I were a total cynic I would say that the English Conservative Party can do very nicely, thank you very much, without Scotland. The English Labour Party, on the other hand, needs that bloc of centre-left MPs.

    For Labour, losing Scotland would be akin to a cripple having his crutch kicked away. Labour can learn to walk without its crutch, but it will be a slow and painful process that will involve compromising with the English and Welsh provincial electorate, rather than hoping it can get just enough seats to cobble together a wobbly alliance with the SNP and the minor leftist bits and pieces.

    The only Labour leader ever to successfully attempt to win over those elusive Con-Lab switchers in the required numbers was Blair, whom most Labourites now despise. They aren't going to enjoy being made to try to follow his example at all.
  • Philip/HYUFD thinking Truss is good makes a lot of sense

    What's your problem with Truss?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,213
    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Question:

    I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

    If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

    The form you are required to fill in for border control with details of your whereabouts the previous 14 days
    Ta.

    So you could cross to Turkey, continue the holiday there for 14 days, then come home fine?

    Tempting, in the circs

    Unless of course Turkey also goes tits up

    The best holiday place right now is, weirdly, Italy. They seem to have a real grip on things. I wonder why it is so different there, compared to Spain?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/
    Everything is outdoors, clubs aren't open at all and bars aren't open for indoor business. Everyone very strictly adheres to the mask rules and Italians are very unforgiving towards those who don't wear them. It helps that the outdoor weather is suitable for dining and drinking until late, but either way I'm almost certain that pushing almost everything to being outdoors is the reason.
    But isn't Spanish night time/bar/resto culture almost identical? Maybe the Italians are a little more laid back at night, but I don't see a major difference. Cetainly not a climatic difference.

    And yet Spain has a horror show of a case rate, and Italy has it all under control. Odd.
    Spain opened up its nightclubs and bars, loads of young people got infected, those young people are waiters, barmaids and baristas during the day coming into contact, usually indoors, with the wider public and in Spain young people live with their parents until they turn ~27-29 so there was also a lot of in home transmission.

    It's clubs and bars that seem to be the most likely transmission vector. Dancing, sweating, singing and shouting, all of them are likely to cause transmission.
    And Italy didn't open clubs?

    Genuine question. if that's the case then yes it explains the difference.

    Opening clubs does seem to be absolutely stupid. They're gonna have to stay shut til a vaccine, I fear. Which is terrible for places like Ibiza but a sweaty crowded Spanish nightclub is the perfect vector,

    I have also heard that the French have gone back to le bisou - the actual touchy kiss as greeting - which alone explains their problem.

    Thank God for British chilliness.
    Italy does not have world famous dance venues. No one goes to Rome to go clubbing for the weekend.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    For politicians he doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly. People who wish to conspire and work against him, he has no time for. After what happened under May its rather refreshing - and for people like Hunt who want to do their own thing they can be critics on the outside rather than unreliable on the inside.
    Patel? Truss?

    My god, that is desperate stuff.
    Both very good.

    Truss is one of the most underrated Cabinet Ministers of the last decade. She doesn't get a lot of attention but I have a lot of respect for her.
    Its a disgrace...

    Or are you a Stilton exporter?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222

    Scott_xP said:

    She gets laughed at, but she is very good.

    At what?
    She is a genuine free market conservative who believes in free trade and makes the case for it very well. She understands what she is talking about and is not just jumping on a bandwagon. She is a perfect person to be in control of the International Trade department.

    She has achieved more in a year at International Trade than Fox was able to achieve in three years. Fox was loud and obnoxious and grandiose and incompetent, full of grand promises but he got nothing done...
    Is that why we’re proposing him to lead the WTO ?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do not assume a Nationalist majority is inevitable.

    I think it increasingly likely all Unionist parties will combine under 1 Unionist Alliance ticket led by Ruth Davidson, just standing one Unionist candidate at constituency level at Holyrood against the SNP, with the Unionist parties only standing separately against each other as Tories, Labour and LD on the Holyrood list.

    Thus maximising the number of Unionist MSPs to stop a Nationalist SNP or SNP and Green majority

    I really cannot see Labour agreeing to that. It would play into the hands of the SNP by effectively repeating the 2014 mistake of combining in the Better Together campaign.
    The same Better Together campaign that won the 2014 referendum by a comfortable 55% to 45% margin?
    BUT point is, Labour took a political hit for the cause of preserving the union.

    Is YOUR party ready and willing (to say nothing of able) to do the same, for a cause (allegedly) so central to its own existence?

    Of course, political parties exist to do good (as they see it) AND also to maintain their existence. SO can forgive Labour, CUP, LDs AND SNP (and even Cornish Nats) for neither forgetting nor foregoing the 2nd imperative.
    It is fairly simple, the Tories stand down and allow Labour a free run in the central belt seats next year, Labour stand down and give the Tories a free run in the Borders and rural Aberdeenshire and both stand down and give the LDs a free run in the Highlands, Orkney and Shetland and Edinburgh West.

    They can still stand against each other on the list anyway
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    edited August 2020
    The gun insanity continues in the US.

    9th Circuit ends California ban on high-capacity magazines
    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-14/9th-circuit-california-law-high-capacity-magazines

    Judge Lee is from the Federalist Society assembly line; Trump appointed. Unsurprisingly.
  • Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    She gets laughed at, but she is very good.

    At what?
    She is a genuine free market conservative who believes in free trade and makes the case for it very well. She understands what she is talking about and is not just jumping on a bandwagon. She is a perfect person to be in control of the International Trade department.

    She has achieved more in a year at International Trade than Fox was able to achieve in three years. Fox was loud and obnoxious and grandiose and incompetent, full of grand promises but he got nothing done...
    Is that why we’re proposing him to lead the WTO ?

    Getting him out of the country and as far away from Westminster seems like a good idea to me.
  • IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    For politicians he doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly. People who wish to conspire and work against him, he has no time for. After what happened under May its rather refreshing - and for people like Hunt who want to do their own thing they can be critics on the outside rather than unreliable on the inside.
    Patel? Truss?

    My god, that is desperate stuff.
    Both very good.

    Truss is one of the most underrated Cabinet Ministers of the last decade. She doesn't get a lot of attention but I have a lot of respect for her.
    At least we are now down to Sunak and Truss.

    I am guessing you like cheese?

    Sunak’s test will come when he starts trying to pay off his bills.
    I do like cheese. And pork.

    She gets laughed at, but she is very good.
    Wasn’t she caught having sex with one of her advisors in her office?
    I don't know and couldn't care less. People have sex, don't be a prude.
    So you have zero problem with elected official bonking their underlings in their office? AND think that anyone who DOES have a problem with that is a prude?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do not assume a Nationalist majority is inevitable.

    I think it increasingly likely all Unionist parties will combine under 1 Unionist Alliance ticket led by Ruth Davidson, just standing one Unionist candidate at constituency level at Holyrood against the SNP, with the Unionist parties only standing separately against each other as Tories, Labour and LD on the Holyrood list.

    Thus maximising the number of Unionist MSPs to stop a Nationalist SNP or SNP and Green majority

    I really cannot see Labour agreeing to that. It would play into the hands of the SNP by effectively repeating the 2014 mistake of combining in the Better Together campaign.
    The same Better Together campaign that won the 2014 referendum by a comfortable 55% to 45% margin?
    BUT point is, Labour took a political hit for the cause of preserving the union.

    Is YOUR party ready and willing (to say nothing of able) to do the same, for a cause (allegedly) so central to its own existence?

    Of course, political parties exist to do good (as they see it) AND also to maintain their existence. SO can forgive Labour, CUP, LDs AND SNP (and even Cornish Nats) for neither forgetting nor foregoing the 2nd imperative.
    It is fairly simple, the Tories stand down and allow Labour a free run in the central belt seats next year, Labour stand down and give the Tories a free run in the Borders and rural Aberdeenshire and both stand down and give the LDs a free run in the Highlands, Orkney and Shetland and Edinburgh West.

    They can still stand against each other on the list anyway
    Never going to happen.

    Have you been at the gin again?
  • Philip/HYUFD thinking Truss is good makes a lot of sense

    What's your problem with Truss?
    Well HUYFD, I think she's bloody useless
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2020

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    For politicians he doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly. People who wish to conspire and work against him, he has no time for. After what happened under May its rather refreshing - and for people like Hunt who want to do their own thing they can be critics on the outside rather than unreliable on the inside.
    Patel? Truss?

    My god, that is desperate stuff.
    Both very good.

    Truss is one of the most underrated Cabinet Ministers of the last decade. She doesn't get a lot of attention but I have a lot of respect for her.
    At least we are now down to Sunak and Truss.

    I am guessing you like cheese?

    Sunak’s test will come when he starts trying to pay off his bills.
    I do like cheese. And pork.

    She gets laughed at, but she is very good.
    Wasn’t she caught having sex with one of her advisors in her office?
    I don't know and couldn't care less. People have sex, don't be a prude.
    So you have zero problem with elected official bonking their underlings in their office? AND think that anyone who DOES have a problem with that is a prude?
    Yes, yes.

    So long as they're both consenting adults.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do not assume a Nationalist majority is inevitable.

    I think it increasingly likely all Unionist parties will combine under 1 Unionist Alliance ticket led by Ruth Davidson, just standing one Unionist candidate at constituency level at Holyrood against the SNP, with the Unionist parties only standing separately against each other as Tories, Labour and LD on the Holyrood list.

    Thus maximising the number of Unionist MSPs to stop a Nationalist SNP or SNP and Green majority

    I really cannot see Labour agreeing to that. It would play into the hands of the SNP by effectively repeating the 2014 mistake of combining in the Better Together campaign.
    The same Better Together campaign that won the 2014 referendum by a comfortable 55% to 45% margin?
    BUT point is, Labour took a political hit for the cause of preserving the union.

    Is YOUR party ready and willing (to say nothing of able) to do the same, for a cause (allegedly) so central to its own existence?

    Of course, political parties exist to do good (as they see it) AND also to maintain their existence. SO can forgive Labour, CUP, LDs AND SNP (and even Cornish Nats) for neither forgetting nor foregoing the 2nd imperative.
    It is fairly simple, the Tories stand down and allow Labour a free run in the central belt seats next year, Labour stand down and give the Tories a free run in the Borders and rural Aberdeenshire and both stand down and give the LDs a free run in the Highlands, Orkney and Shetland and Edinburgh West.

    They can still stand against each other on the list anyway
    No chance Philip.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,357

    Wait so @LadyG is Sean and HYUFD is Philip?

    Makes sense now.

    HYFUD and Philip are CCHQ plants, they are so obvious brown nosers they could not be anything else.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    stodge said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53817886

    More good news from Rishi's scheme.

    Also, when did the IFS become a defender of "equality"? I've noticed it more and more that they are pushing the "poor people matter the most" agenda in everything they do. It's a worthwhile goal but their remit isn't to bang on about equality, it's to try and see how the UK is performing economically and what the fiscal outlook is and what kind of multipliers government policy will have. The eat out scheme must have an absolutely massive economic multiplier, it's an extremely cheap scheme at £500m but it will generate huge economic benefits for the hospitality industry and save far more than that within the furlough scheme.

    Honestly, it actually doesn't matter if poor people can't afford to eat out, they didn't before the virus and they probably won't afterwards. The sector depends on the middle classes going out and spending money on food, booze and tips. It's quite annoying that their insight was "yeah but poor people" and not what kind of multiplier it would have and how good or bad the scheme would be at getting the sector back on its feet. It's not a big deal for me because I have a team of analysts to do that for me, but our research will never see the light of day, where is the public going to learn this stuff from if the IFS is derelicting it's duty to report on the fiscal outlook.

    I give the Eat Out to Help Out two cheers rather than three. There have been some quite unpleasant stories of abuse directed against staff for not having table space for diners and one or two places in coastal towns have opted out of the scheme.

    There's also the question of how much the early week business is affecting the later week and weekend business. My experience of a roast lunch on a Saturday was the venue was exceptionally quiet and the staff confirmed the place was rammed Monday-Wednesday and dead the rest of the week.

    If the total volume of business is simply being redistributed and isn't increasing, I can't quite see the benefit except to the consumer early in the week obviously. If the total volume of business is up 10% on what would normally happen because of the scheme, that's excellent and to be welcome.

    I wonder if the scheme will be prolonged into September but at £500m a month such largesse isn't going to be on the menu forever (pun intended).
    In the BBC article the owner of a restaurant chain has said it is having the intended effect of making people more confident in going out and their weekend bookings are also strong -

    "The Eat Out to Help Out scheme has really been amazing," said Stephen Wall, managing director and co-founder of restaurant chain Pho. "It's so nice to see our restaurants full of happy staff and customers again.

    "It has certainly benefitted our early week figures and seems to have encouraged the British public to dine out safely, as our restaurants are filling up and staying busy throughout the weekend, too."

    It is probably the most successful government policy we've seen in absolutely ages. It is definitely having the intended effect of getting people into restaurants and pubs for the first time and showing people that it is safe to go out again. I don't think they will bother keeping it for September because of that reason, there won't be any need for it. If they do then it might only be for an extra couple of weeks while the weather is good and extra outdoor capacity can be put in place.
    The restaurants on London Rd in Leicester were packed out, mostly with Asian families, and adjacent to the hotspot area. Thanks, but no thanks...

    Dental appointment went well, no major work required on my broken tooth. Continued neglect was the recommendation.
    I didn’t realise Leicester was out of lockdown!
    It isn't. The restaurants and pubs are open though. The restrictions are pretty meaningless, and not being observed.
    If the pubs and bars are open, how is it in lockdown?
    In Leicester City, the national easements for 15 August will not apply. That means the following cannot reopen or resume:

    casinos
    skating rinks
    bowling alleys
    indoor play areas, including soft play areas
    exhibition centres and conference halls
    indoor performances
    remaining close contact services, which are any treatments on the face such as eyebrow threading or make-up application
    wedding receptions and celebrations for up to 30 people, in the form of a sit-down meal
    The following settings must also remain closed in Leicester City:

    indoor gyms
    indoor fitness and dance studios
    indoor sports courts and facilities
    indoor swimming pools, including indoor facilities at water parks

    Household restrictions
    People from different households must not meet in a private home or garden. You must not:

    host people you do not live with in your home or garden, unless they’re in your support bubble
    meet people you do not live with in their home or garden
    travel outside of protected area in Leicester to meet people in their home or garden
  • Labour teaming up with the Tories, are you mad?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,138

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do not assume a Nationalist majority is inevitable.

    I think it increasingly likely all Unionist parties will combine under 1 Unionist Alliance ticket led by Ruth Davidson, just standing one Unionist candidate at constituency level at Holyrood against the SNP, with the Unionist parties only standing separately against each other as Tories, Labour and LD on the Holyrood list.

    Thus maximising the number of Unionist MSPs to stop a Nationalist SNP or SNP and Green majority

    I really cannot see Labour agreeing to that. It would play into the hands of the SNP by effectively repeating the 2014 mistake of combining in the Better Together campaign.
    The same Better Together campaign that won the 2014 referendum by a comfortable 55% to 45% margin?
    BUT point is, Labour took a political hit for the cause of preserving the union.

    Is YOUR party ready and willing (to say nothing of able) to do the same, for a cause (allegedly) so central to its own existence?

    Of course, political parties exist to do good (as they see it) AND also to maintain their existence. SO can forgive Labour, CUP, LDs AND SNP (and even Cornish Nats) for neither forgetting nor foregoing the 2nd imperative.
    It is fairly simple, the Tories stand down and allow Labour a free run in the central belt seats next year, Labour stand down and give the Tories a free run in the Borders and rural Aberdeenshire and both stand down and give the LDs a free run in the Highlands, Orkney and Shetland and Edinburgh West.

    They can still stand against each other on the list anyway
    No chance Philip.
    If you want to beat the SNP that is how it has to be
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Why? Why doesn't he just sack this useless twat?

    Williamson is the most useless Cabinet Minister in the history of the known cosmos. He has no ideas, no brains, no charisma, he can't talk, he can barely use a spoon. Why not just sacrifice him? Chuck him to the wolves, and keep them quiet?

    Then, more importantly, they can actually appoint someone with a brain, or at least a rudimentary nervous system.
    In advisors, Boris wants brains, because they have to do as they are told.

    In politicians, Boris fears people with genuine ability. Quite why is left as an exercise for the reader.
    He's got many in his Cabinet with genuine ability: Sunak, Patel, Truss etc

    For politicians he doesn't seem to suffer fools gladly. People who wish to conspire and work against him, he has no time for. After what happened under May its rather refreshing - and for people like Hunt who want to do their own thing they can be critics on the outside rather than unreliable on the inside.
    Patel? Truss?

    My god, that is desperate stuff.
    Both very good.

    Truss is one of the most underrated Cabinet Ministers of the last decade. She doesn't get a lot of attention but I have a lot of respect for her.
    At least we are now down to Sunak and Truss.

    I am guessing you like cheese?

    Sunak’s test will come when he starts trying to pay off his bills.
    I do like cheese. And pork.

    She gets laughed at, but she is very good.
    Wasn’t she caught having sex with one of her advisors in her office?
    I don't know and couldn't care less. People have sex, don't be a prude.
    She had an affair with her mentor, Mark Field. Doesn’t matter a jot.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    malcolmg said:

    Wait so @LadyG is Sean and HYUFD is Philip?

    Makes sense now.

    HYFUD and Philip are CCHQ plants, they are so obvious brown nosers they could not be anything else.
    I think that’s a little unfair to Philip; whether you agree with him or not, he does display independent though from time to time.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    MaxPB said:

    LadyG said:

    IanB2 said:

    LadyG said:

    Question:

    I'm flying out to Greece on Friday. Looks like there's a chance the rising case rate in Greece might make the govt put Greece on the quarantine list (maybe not this week, but more probably next week).

    If HMG pulls down the shutters next week when I am sunning myself by the Aegean what is to stop me, when I want to return, simply crossing a border - to Bulgaria or Turkey, and flying back from there, where there is, as yet, no need to self isolate on return?

    The form you are required to fill in for border control with details of your whereabouts the previous 14 days
    Ta.

    So you could cross to Turkey, continue the holiday there for 14 days, then come home fine?

    Tempting, in the circs

    Unless of course Turkey also goes tits up

    The best holiday place right now is, weirdly, Italy. They seem to have a real grip on things. I wonder why it is so different there, compared to Spain?

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy/
    Everything is outdoors, clubs aren't open at all and bars aren't open for indoor business. Everyone very strictly adheres to the mask rules and Italians are very unforgiving towards those who don't wear them. It helps that the outdoor weather is suitable for dining and drinking until late, but either way I'm almost certain that pushing almost everything to being outdoors is the reason.
    But isn't Spanish night time/bar/resto culture almost identical? Maybe the Italians are a little more laid back at night, but I don't see a major difference. Cetainly not a climatic difference.

    And yet Spain has a horror show of a case rate, and Italy has it all under control. Odd.
    Spain opened up its nightclubs and bars, loads of young people got infected, those young people are waiters, barmaids and baristas during the day coming into contact, usually indoors, with the wider public and in Spain young people live with their parents until they turn ~27-29 so there was also a lot of in home transmission.

    It's clubs and bars that seem to be the most likely transmission vector. Dancing, sweating, singing and shouting, all of them are likely to cause transmission.
    And Italy didn't open clubs?

    Genuine question. if that's the case then yes it explains the difference.

    Opening clubs does seem to be absolutely stupid. They're gonna have to stay shut til a vaccine, I fear. Which is terrible for places like Ibiza but a sweaty crowded Spanish nightclub is the perfect vector,

    I have also heard that the French have gone back to le bisou - the actual touchy kiss as greeting - which alone explains their problem.

    Thank God for British chilliness.
    Italy does not have world famous dance venues. No one goes to Rome to go clubbing for the weekend.
    Nah, you do that in Canada
  • malcolmg said:

    Wait so @LadyG is Sean and HYUFD is Philip?

    Makes sense now.

    HYFUD and Philip are CCHQ plants, they are so obvious brown nosers they could not be anything else.
    WTF? I argue with HYUFD all the time, I couldn't disagree with him more.
  • malcolmg said:

    Wait so @LadyG is Sean and HYUFD is Philip?

    Makes sense now.

    HYFUD and Philip are CCHQ plants, they are so obvious brown nosers they could not be anything else.
    WTF? I argue with HYUFD all the time, I couldn't disagree with him more.
    You argue with yourself, you mean
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,135

    Remarkable.

    Certainly not a video you could imagine made about Trump.
    I can imagine it, it just would seem wildly improbable and out of character.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    malcolmg said:

    Wait so @LadyG is Sean and HYUFD is Philip?

    Makes sense now.

    HYFUD and Philip are CCHQ plants, they are so obvious brown nosers they could not be anything else.
    No, there are plenty of folk so tribally loyal that they will kiss ass for free.
  • Labour teaming up with the Tories, are you mad?

    He is stark raving bonkers.
  • I did need a good laugh today, thanks @HYUFD.

    I think your credibility just fell through the floor though
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,135
    edited August 2020

    Labour teaming up with the Tories, are you mad?

    Some issues can be above regular politics, and the big two vote on things together from time to time, which is by definition teaming up with one another.

    And despite fiercely opposed in most ways parties might still agree on something fundamental. Indeed, surely that's the whole point of us having a loyal opposition, in that it is opposition accepting the basic premises of how government is constituted, and therefore that there might be other issues (albeit rare) where bitter opponents would nonetheless agree.

    That said, there are few situations where direct working together would likely be a good idea.
  • I note that I gave a detailed reason as to why I respect Truss and not a single person came up with a political reason why we shouldn't - just a prudish assertion that she has had sex.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    malcolmg said:

    Wait so @LadyG is Sean and HYUFD is Philip?

    Makes sense now.

    HYFUD and Philip are CCHQ plants, they are so obvious brown nosers they could not be anything else.
    WTF? I argue with HYUFD all the time, I couldn't disagree with him more.
    Strange all this Difference should be
    ‘Twixt Tweedle-dum and Tweedle-dee!
This discussion has been closed.