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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Biden’s answer to those raising questions about his age – get

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  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    DavidL said:

    Biden on his bike draws attention to his age as a negative. As does his dodgy facelift.

    Where's the confidence in his age and experience? In his achievements? He's not facing a younger, green opponent, but he's facing someone very inexperienced politically, which his years of experience contrast favourably with. I would be trying to sell him as a slick operator - a professional. No school like the old school. Instead they seem to be dubiously trying to reclaim lost vigour.

    Having joined this conversation late, due to having spent the time from 8-9.30 at the gym and then having THINGS TO DO, I am horrified at the ageism here. Joe Biden Jr is, at 78 several years younger than myself, and, partly as a result of said gym, I feel as mentally fit as ever.
    I don't want to be unkind but didn't you recently give up your bike because you had lost your sense of balance? Old age comes to us all, the challenges of being POTUS thankfully do not.
    Touche'
  • Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    NHS hospital

    Stocky said:

    Grandiose said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Something that would get great applause from me would be a coherent FTTP strategy from the Government, unfortunately so far I have not seen one.

    FTTP should be a USO and a right for all, just as a copper telephone line is. We should jolly well do the investment now and not have to worry about it again.

    FTTC and G.Fast have shown themselves to be complete and and utter waste of time and money. And at least Openreach has accepted that.

    Frankly I don't care if Openreach is the supplier or not - although I think the Government should own any investment it makes, with some kind of partial ownership - but we really do need to get on and sort this out.

    I have FTTC and I normally get a pretty good service. I’m not trying to stream 4k video though.

    What speed are you getting?
    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Anything above about 1KM away, it becomes fairly useless.

    Even 80Mbps isn't going to be sufficient in under a decade's time, my point is that FTTC is a poor technology because it was an (expensive) stopgap.

    G.Fast was just the same, although to their credit Openreach saw fit to stop it after a small-ish rollout.

    If we'd done FTTP from 2008 onwards as we should have done, we'd be in a much better position now.

    In my parents village in the countryside, FTTC has barely helped at all, most properties are simply too far away to benefit.
    And now you are teaching me.
    To be honest I still to this day don't know why the Government didn't mandate BDUK was FTTP only but for some reason they took BT's word for it.

    BT is a business, their asset is literally copper. It was obvious they were going to try and use it for as long as possible.

    Such a missed opportunity.

    If Boris Johnson has 80%+ FTTP coverage by 2024 I will be astonished but also he will have a round of applause from me.

    This is genuinely the best investment they could make alongside housing.
    FTTP would be a far better investment than hs2
    Ofcome reckon 55% of homes have access to 300Mbps if they want it, which is good enough for this generation.
    That is slightly misleading. Our superfast broadband package is for 300Mbps, i.e. that`s what I`m paying for, but I have no way of evidencing this as measurement on my devices, which rely on an element of wifi, measure 5 to 65Mbps (depending on the particular room in the house I am in).

    I suppose I could have access to 300Mbps, if I hard-wired every room of my house. But this is not practical and costly - and still wouldn`t achieve 300Mbps as the hardwiring would be copper not fibre.
    Check your router - it may be shit.
    Check the wifi capability of the router - that may be shit.

    As a start, plug a laptop into the router (with an actual cable) and check.

    Getting 300Mbps over Wifi would require some nice kit....
    Router is supplied by the broadband company (Gigaclear) and there is no option to have another router.

    The only laptop we have in the house is my wife`s fucking Mac which doesn`t support the lead necessary to plug it in the router.

    I`ve called Gigaclear a couple of times and they assure me I`m getting 300Mbps but it is disconcerting that I can`t check.

    If a visitor, say, had a non Apple laptop I could borrow to test router I think I`m right in saying that this may not be reliable as each device has it`s own limit - is this correct?

    Simple stuff to start with - is your WiFi 802.11g or 802.11n?

    The following is a rough guide

    image

    You can plug a better wifi unit into the device they supply, if you want to.

    Each device has it's own limits, yes.

    You can buy an adapter for your Apple laptop to ethernet cable, from Amazon - unless you spend a zillion at the Apple store.

    I recommend having one, if your are 100% Apple... either that or buy a really long ethernet cable to connect a PC in for testing purposes. Always good to have a way to hard connect...
    Thanks for your help, but simple stuff first! You`ve lost me already.

    Our router is a Genexis DRG 7820 if that helps.
    https://genexis.eu/content/uploads/2016/03/DRG-QIG-rev1.3.pdf

    It supports 1Gb ethernet so you'd max out your connection if you wired in. Ironically you wouldn't be able to use the full 1Gb service if you had that due to overheads, you'd be stuck around 900Mbps.

    https://www.davidmarlowphotography.com/section850030_352763.html

    I can't find any info on the WiFi speeds from it but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's either fast N, so 300Mbps maximum, or AC so 878Mbps or faster.

    It just looks a bit rubbish to be honest.

    If it were me, I'd buy another WiFi access point, plug it in and use the WiFi on that instead.
    Wouldn`t the WiFi access point be plugged into the router and therefore suffer the same limitations of the router?
    In quite a lot of cases, the "modem" bit is fine - it's cheap, standard tech. It's the Wifi that is shit.

    Which I why I suggested doing a wired test first....

    Good Wifi is expensive, requiring good design, components and manufacturing.

    Their site claims that they are using 802.11ac - which should be capable of what they claim.... *should*
    Every generation of Wi-Fi is a disappointment, quite frankly. You never get close to matching the claimed speeds.

    Still on AC, you should be able to achieve 200Mbps or more with little trouble.

    If you use an AP, you sidestep the issue of the WiFi in the router (built in Wi-Fi is generally quite poor in single unit devices) and you'll have a better experience all round.

    I have a Plume system setup here, which is basically a whole home system but using AI in the background for a bit of automatic optimisation. I've been testing it for a few years and it works well.

    Not as good as wiring in but for me it maxes out my 50Mbps connection so I have no trouble. And I get Wi-Fi everywhere.
  • MaxPB said:

    I have OpenReach FTTP and it’s pretty useless. There’s very few options - basically BT Infinity and nowt much else so the price is high. I have the lowest speed/cheapest price I have £30 a month for 50 mb/s ish? Video conferencing, Netflix streaming, etc works fine.

    I don’t notice any difference to my previous house which had normal copper. Obviously it is future proof though.

    TalkTalk are doing the same price for more, I'd switch or haggle.
    Last time I could switch TalkTalk could not serve my property for whatever reason. Same with all the other normal “uses BT copper” companies.

    I could choose between BT Infinity and BT Infinity.
    I don't think LLU providers have full access to the FTTP network. It's why the big ones are partnering with smaller players to build their own network.
    They do as of very recently. TalkTalk now provide Openreach FTTP.

    LLU is a bit of a misnomer in the FTTC/FTTP world, because Openreach provides all the infrastructure. LLU is at the exchange.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    I have OpenReach FTTP and it’s pretty useless. There’s very few options - basically BT Infinity and nowt much else so the price is high. I have the lowest speed/cheapest price I have £30 a month for 50 mb/s ish? Video conferencing, Netflix streaming, etc works fine.

    I don’t notice any difference to my previous house which had normal copper. Obviously it is future proof though.

    TalkTalk are doing the same price for more, I'd switch or haggle.
    Last time I could switch TalkTalk could not serve my property for whatever reason. Same with all the other normal “uses BT copper” companies.

    I could choose between BT Infinity and BT Infinity.
    Very recent, I think they launched in the last month or so.
    Cheers - that’s good information!
  • Because it sounds like Dawn has made it up. He should have waited for more information.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    Well, that was an interesting guest we just had over for lunch....

    Her father's fiance was Sophie Scholl, a member of the White Rose resistance to the Nazi's, guillotined at 21. Her father, also a member of the White Rose, somehow survived the war.

    That's what you call political activism....

    (Our guest was also at the heart of everything in Laurel Canyon in the late 60's. Photos of her then look like Vogue photo-shoots. The litany of people she was close to then was jaw-dropping. Her best female friend was killed by the Manson family. She was very close to Jim Morrison - although somehow managed to stay a virgin until her wedding night!)

    She is still modelling - at 73.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    kinabalu said:

    Rexel56 said:



    The view from my window right now... and we get 1,000 Mbps upload and download and latency of 1ms... all thanks to our FTTP community project at an investment of £600per property... for which we pay £30 per month incl VAT...

    There's no people. None at all.
    That field looks like the sort of place that Jenrick has his eye on. :smiley:
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited August 2020
    Which “international waters in the Channel” would those be, Mr Ellwood?

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1292819804425007104?s=20
  • I have OpenReach FTTP and it’s pretty useless. There’s very few options - basically BT Infinity and nowt much else so the price is high. I have the lowest speed/cheapest price I have £30 a month for 50 mb/s ish? Video conferencing, Netflix streaming, etc works fine.

    I don’t notice any difference to my previous house which had normal copper. Obviously it is future proof though.

    TalkTalk are doing the same price for more, I'd switch or haggle.
    Last time I could switch TalkTalk could not serve my property for whatever reason. Same with all the other normal “uses BT copper” companies.

    I could choose between BT Infinity and BT Infinity.
    Very recent, I think they launched in the last month or so.
    Cheers - that’s good information!
    https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/07/isp-talktalk-updates-uk-fttp-plan-for-openreach-and-cityfibre.html

    Seems like July it launched, so very recent indeed.
  • I'm not advocating switching to TalkTalk, my experience with them was piss poor. But I do think prices will now come down.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    nichomar said:

    ClippP said:

    Apologies if I have missed it, but have we heard any more about the person who was driving the car, or indeed the ownership of the car?

    If I were a writer of thrillers, which I am not, there could be a story line where the driver was a member of a gang of drug dealers, and the car had already been used for some illicit purpose. They would be the ocus of police interest. The gang would have ensnared the politician into going along with them, in order to make a scene if they were apprehended, and to allow the gang to proceed undisturbed.

    In other countries it is not unknown for politicians to be in the pay of criminal gangs, and this seems much more plausible to me than that the police were deliberately profiling racial minority MPs. It would make a much better story too.
    A friend who was black was driving
    Yes. The driver was both male and black. A provocation too far.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    I have OpenReach FTTP and it’s pretty useless. There’s very few options - basically BT Infinity and nowt much else so the price is high. I have the lowest speed/cheapest price I have £30 a month for 50 mb/s ish? Video conferencing, Netflix streaming, etc works fine.

    I don’t notice any difference to my previous house which had normal copper. Obviously it is future proof though.

    TalkTalk are doing the same price for more, I'd switch or haggle.
    Last time I could switch TalkTalk could not serve my property for whatever reason. Same with all the other normal “uses BT copper” companies.

    I could choose between BT Infinity and BT Infinity.
    I don't think LLU providers have full access to the FTTP network. It's why the big ones are partnering with smaller players to build their own network.
    They do as of very recently. TalkTalk now provide Openreach FTTP.

    LLU is a bit of a misnomer in the FTTC/FTTP world, because Openreach provides all the infrastructure. LLU is at the exchange.
    That's good news. I hadn't realised there were third party providers yet.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    If you want to know why FTTP is scarce in the U.K., read the PAC report into BDUK. Spoiler: the recently ennobled Ed Vazey got well and truly played by BT. The original objective was 100% coverage of Superfast Broadband, being minimum 25mbps. This couldn’t be achieved solely with the BT copper infrastructure as so, necessarily, other providers with different technologies such as FTTP were drawn into tendering for contracts. Lo and behold, BT then persuade DCMS (Vazey) that the objective should be lowered to 95% Superfast which could be achieved with BT FTTC - everyone else dropped out as there was no point competing. As a result BT got over £2bn subsidy to roll out FTTC to their marginally non-commercial customers whilst the likes of B4RN said bugger this we will sort ourselves out with a penny of subsidy.
  • Sky might offer FTTP now, they were offering G.Fast quite recently.

    As soon as you get Sky + TalkTalk providing it, the prices will fall quickly.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    edited August 2020

    Which “international waters in the Channel” would those be, Mr Ellwood?

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1292819804425007104?s=20

    12 nm is the limit, so there would be plenty of La Manche free for boating in - where English and French waters meet would be only in the Straits of Dover (and [edit] possibly the waters E and S of the CIs, though you will know better than me).

    Edit: could you be thinking of the EEZ?
  • Of course now I've wet your appetite I could talk about the never launched red phone company TV service, which I note BT has recently pinched an idea from but perhaps for another day
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,368
    nichomar said:

    ClippP said:

    Apologies if I have missed it, but have we heard any more about the person who was driving the car, or indeed the ownership of the car?

    If I were a writer of thrillers, which I am not, there could be a story line where the driver was a member of a gang of drug dealers, and the car had already been used for some illicit purpose. They would be the ocus of police interest. The gang would have ensnared the politician into going along with them, in order to make a scene if they were apprehended, and to allow the gang to proceed undisturbed.

    In other countries it is not unknown for politicians to be in the pay of criminal gangs, and this seems much more plausible to me than that the police were deliberately profiling racial minority MPs. It would make a much better story too.
    A friend who was black was driving
    The first thing to find out what really happened.

    And no, I don't trust the police. I fully expect a written account by a random bystander supporting their statements. Which happens to be a copy of the official police report.

    One thing that many have happened is an apparent "cloning". License plate cloning is a big thing in London, because of all the cameras.

    Cars with cloned plates are often used in crime. So a car with plates that don't match is a red light - at first the criminals were stupid. So you would find a Range Rover wearing plates with a registration for a Mini.

    Now they try and find cars that match make and colour.

    So, *maybe* due to a mistake in the lookup on the plate, the car appeared to be wearing cloned plates.
  • TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
  • Helen Whately is embarrassing herself again
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    I can help with that - close your curtains early in the evening if you’re planning to leave the windows open.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    Keep the lights off?

    Or the windows closed. Not so easy in a heatwave. In which case, distract them with an outside light/lights on with curtains open - on the side of the house you aren't sleeping on.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,368

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    Stopping birds buzzing around your room at night? Hmmmmm... Don't go to nightclubs where they are all on coke?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know a fair bit about postal performance measurement and how to make Bounty’s
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,755
    Pagan2 said:

    Selebian said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Hmmm decided to do a thought experiment

    only 5% of homes according to ofcom can't get >30 mbps broadband

    In the last 8 years I have lived in 4 different locations in town all with different post codes

    The chances of none of those houses getting superfast broadband(I arrange my own when I move in and always go for fastest I can get) is therefore

    0.05 x 0.05 x 0.05 x 0.05 or in odds 160,000 to 1

    I guess I must be super unlucky or I was correct and the stats are dodgy

    The maths is ok if you chose five random homes in the UK (or whatever area the OfCom stat applies to). If, as implied, they were all in the same town then not random and the maths is nonsense - it's likely that the whole town (or much of it) has poor connectivity. The connectivity map will be lumpy.
    Which doesn't change the point that the stats ofcom are pushing are obviously wrong as lots of towns people report the same problem getting this mythical superfast broadband. It would only take 33 towns like mine to go over that 5% value and thats before you even dip into rural areas.

    If consumers in a highly built up town on the outskirts of London can't get superfast then what chance have smaller market towns

    https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/broadband-map#6/51.414/-0.641/uso/

    open that and check the 2 to 10 mbps check box then tell me all those hotspots only represent 5%
    That map seems to be populated by people doing speed tests. I can do a speed test on my cheapo 10Mbps ADSL connection and add it to the map (apparently). Doesn't change the fact that there are several companies happy to sell me 60Mbps or faster FTTC connections if I wanted that.

    You may be right and Ofcom are lying for some reason (I don't see the motivation to do that). Either way, I really just wanted to point out that probabilities are not that simple when dealing with non-random data.
  • TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    Stopping birds buzzing around your room at night? Hmmmmm... Don't go to nightclubs where they are all on coke?
    They're all closed!
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited August 2020

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    Get window screens. Yes, I know it's difficult in the UK with the typical styles of windows, but I find window screens à la Americaine to be a godsend. Should we eventually move back to the UK I will definitely be budgeting to re-do the windows of any house we buy with screen-friendly ones.
  • I like the expertise that is provided by many on this site and I do think for this reason it is a cut above many of the other political discussion sites I've looked at before.

    There are things I know absolutely nothing about - but I've learned about from people on here.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    This is a very very small trial involving very sick patients, no randomised control arm, but intriguing nonetheless.

    Any comment, @Foxy ?

    Endothelial Injury and Thrombotic Microangiopathy in COVID-19: Treatment with the Lectin-Pathway Inhibitor Narsoplimab
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0171298520304459
    In COVID-19, acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) and thrombotic events are frequent, life-threatening complications. Autopsies commonly show arterial thrombosis and severe endothelial damage. Endothelial damage, which can play an early and central pathogenic role in ARDS and thrombosis, activates the lectin pathway of complement. Mannan-binding lectin-associated serine protease-2 (MASP-2), the lectin pathway’s effector enzyme, binds the nucleocapsid protein of severe acute respiratory syndrome-associated coronavirus-2 (SARS-CoV-2), resulting in complement activation and lung injury. Narsoplimab, a fully human immunoglobulin gamma 4 (IgG4) monoclonal antibody against MASP-2, inhibits lectin pathway activation and has anticoagulant effects. In this study, the first time a lectin-pathway inhibitor was used to treat COVID-19, six COVID-19 patients with ARDS requiring continuous positive airway pressure (CPAP) or intubation received narsoplimab under compassionate use. At baseline and during treatment, circulating endothelial cell (CEC) counts and serum levels of interleukin-6 (IL-6), interleukin-8 (IL-8), C-reactive protein (CRP) and lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) were assessed. Narsoplimab treatment was associated with rapid and sustained reduction of CEC and concurrent reduction of serum IL-6, IL-8, CRP and LDH. Narsoplimab was well tolerated; no adverse drug reactions were reported. Two control groups were used for retrospective comparison, both showing significantly higher mortality than the narsoplimab-treated group. All narsoplimab-treated patients recovered and survived. Narsoplimab may be an effective treatment for COVID-19 by reducing COVID-19-related endothelial cell damage and the resultant inflammation and thrombotic risk.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    Keep the lights off?

    Or the windows closed. Not so easy in a heatwave. In which case, distract them with an outside light/lights on with curtains open - on the side of the house you aren't sleeping on.
    Not much help in the short term, but the Australians have an effective solution: only open windows/doors fitted with a fly screen. After another 20 years of global warming it might also be worthwhile buying them in the UK.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Carnyx said:

    Which “international waters in the Channel” would those be, Mr Ellwood?

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1292819804425007104?s=20

    12 nm is the limit, so there would be plenty of La Manche free for boating in - where English and French waters meet would be only in the Straits of Dover (and [edit] possibly the waters E and S of the CIs, though you will know better than me).

    Edit: could you be thinking of the EEZ?
    Aren't the CI's two seperate entities?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Carnyx said:

    Which “international waters in the Channel” would those be, Mr Ellwood?

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1292819804425007104?s=20

    12 nm is the limit, so there would be plenty of La Manche free for boating in - where English and French waters meet would be only in the Straits of Dover (and [edit] possibly the waters E and S of the CIs, though you will know better than me).

    Edit: could you be thinking of the EEZ?
    Aren't the CI's two seperate entities?
    Oh yes, now you mention it. But I'm not sure if they count as part of the UK. However, Carlotta will know ...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,368

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    Stopping birds buzzing around your room at night? Hmmmmm... Don't go to nightclubs where they are all on coke?
    They're all closed!
    Well there's your problem - going to illegal raves. Who knows what shit they are on?
  • TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    Stopping birds buzzing around your room at night? Hmmmmm... Don't go to nightclubs where they are all on coke?
    They're all closed!
    Well there's your problem - going to illegal raves. Who knows what shit they are on?
    I think a lot of dog shit
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    That is true. A regretted omission.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    eek said:

    Why would Canada, Australia and New Zealand want anything to do with the UK?

    That's the bit I can't understand.
    We can't exist as Juche Britain, so closer links with CANZUK, India, the USA are and always were the necessary corollary to moving away from the EU. This is that fact being applied in practise.
    I know you're not a fan of the current form of Brexit, but what were you expecting with *any* Brexit.
    Yes, the Brexiteers need to make up their minds between
    "slap on the tariffs to protect British industry and agriculture" and
    "zero tariffs so we can buy lots of cheap stuff".
    Given that those are both extreme ends of a spectrum, I'm not sure why you think a binary choice between the two is necessary.

    Regarding the wider point about CANZUK, we do have a lot in common with those other countries, and it would be lovely to think we might help each other more in the future, but I don't see that we should jump into a new union having just left one, nor do I see why those countries should alter their geopolitical plans just because we've decoupled from the EU and we're on the market.

    I simply want us to operate as a stable, democratic, and prosperous independent nation. I have not seen a shred of evidence that we cannot do that.
    I agree that scrabbling around for alliances that make less sense than the one we are (sort of) leaving is silly.

    Brexit has taken a tremendous toll in time and energy and so having done it we should now make damn sure it was worth it.

    This means (i) staying as unentangled from others as possible and (ii) enacting some radical political and economic policies which would have been verboten as EU members. Which in turn means veering sharply right or sharply left. Pirate Island - bonfire of regs and red tape, slash taxes, spending cuts, privatize public services, small libertarian state. Or Socialistic Island - state direction of investment, big interventionist government, high tax & spend, egalitarian social and education policy, no trident. It's a big and clear choice and we need to have the balls to make it.

    If we chicken out of either, decide to just muddle along as a bog standard, prosperous but declining Western European liberal, market based but highly regulated mixed economy, doing nothing that we could not have done in the EU other than a different immigration policy and (eventually) a few trade deals, the whole Brexit project will have been in practice rather pointless.
    I'm aligned somewhat with what you're saying, though my point is, there's no urgency. We've just got out of a long term committed relationship (the extent to which the relationship was abusive is a matter of debate). Whilst it's a big lonely world and we're not used to the single life, it's naturally tempting to fall into another commitment straight away. To my mind, that's unwise. We need to get used to being ourselves again, and that being OK.
  • Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    NHS hospital

    Stocky said:

    Grandiose said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Something that would get great applause from me would be a coherent FTTP strategy from the Government, unfortunately so far I have not seen one.

    FTTP should be a USO and a right for all, just as a copper telephone line is. We should jolly well do the investment now and not have to worry about it again.

    FTTC and G.Fast have shown themselves to be complete and and utter waste of time and money. And at least Openreach has accepted that.

    Frankly I don't care if Openreach is the supplier or not - although I think the Government should own any investment it makes, with some kind of partial ownership - but we really do need to get on and sort this out.

    I have FTTC and I normally get a pretty good service. I’m not trying to stream 4k video though.

    What speed are you getting?
    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Anything above about 1KM away, it becomes fairly useless.

    Even 80Mbps isn't going to be sufficient in under a decade's time, my point is that FTTC is a poor technology because it was an (expensive) stopgap.

    G.Fast was just the same, although to their credit Openreach saw fit to stop it after a small-ish rollout.

    If we'd done FTTP from 2008 onwards as we should have done, we'd be in a much better position now.

    In my parents village in the countryside, FTTC has barely helped at all, most properties are simply too far away to benefit.
    And now you are teaching me.
    To be honest I still to this day don't know why the Government didn't mandate BDUK was FTTP only but for some reason they took BT's word for it.

    BT is a business, their asset is literally copper. It was obvious they were going to try and use it for as long as possible.

    Such a missed opportunity.

    If Boris Johnson has 80%+ FTTP coverage by 2024 I will be astonished but also he will have a round of applause from me.

    This is genuinely the best investment they could make alongside housing.
    FTTP would be a far better investment than hs2
    Ofcome reckon 55% of homes have access to 300Mbps if they want it, which is good enough for this generation.
    That is slightly misleading. Our superfast broadband package is for 300Mbps, i.e. that`s what I`m paying for, but I have no way of evidencing this as measurement on my devices, which rely on an element of wifi, measure 5 to 65Mbps (depending on the particular room in the house I am in).

    I suppose I could have access to 300Mbps, if I hard-wired every room of my house. But this is not practical and costly - and still wouldn`t achieve 300Mbps as the hardwiring would be copper not fibre.
    Check your router - it may be shit.
    Check the wifi capability of the router - that may be shit.

    As a start, plug a laptop into the router (with an actual cable) and check.

    Getting 300Mbps over Wifi would require some nice kit....
    Router is supplied by the broadband company (Gigaclear) and there is no option to have another router.

    The only laptop we have in the house is my wife`s fucking Mac which doesn`t support the lead necessary to plug it in the router.

    I`ve called Gigaclear a couple of times and they assure me I`m getting 300Mbps but it is disconcerting that I can`t check.

    If a visitor, say, had a non Apple laptop I could borrow to test router I think I`m right in saying that this may not be reliable as each device has it`s own limit - is this correct?

    Simple stuff to start with - is your WiFi 802.11g or 802.11n?

    The following is a rough guide

    image

    You can plug a better wifi unit into the device they supply, if you want to.

    Each device has it's own limits, yes.

    You can buy an adapter for your Apple laptop to ethernet cable, from Amazon - unless you spend a zillion at the Apple store.

    I recommend having one, if your are 100% Apple... either that or buy a really long ethernet cable to connect a PC in for testing purposes. Always good to have a way to hard connect...
    Thanks for your help, but simple stuff first! You`ve lost me already.

    Our router is a Genexis DRG 7820 if that helps.
    https://genexis.eu/content/uploads/2016/03/DRG-QIG-rev1.3.pdf

    It supports 1Gb ethernet so you'd max out your connection if you wired in. Ironically you wouldn't be able to use the full 1Gb service if you had that due to overheads, you'd be stuck around 900Mbps.

    https://www.davidmarlowphotography.com/section850030_352763.html

    I can't find any info on the WiFi speeds from it but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's either fast N, so 300Mbps maximum, or AC so 878Mbps or faster.

    It just looks a bit rubbish to be honest.

    If it were me, I'd buy another WiFi access point, plug it in and use the WiFi on that instead.
    Wouldn`t the WiFi access point be plugged into the router and therefore suffer the same limitations of the router?
    In quite a lot of cases, the "modem" bit is fine - it's cheap, standard tech. It's the Wifi that is shit.

    Which I why I suggested doing a wired test first....

    Good Wifi is expensive, requiring good design, components and manufacturing.

    Their site claims that they are using 802.11ac - which should be capable of what they claim.... *should*
    Every generation of Wi-Fi is a disappointment, quite frankly. You never get close to matching the claimed speeds.

    Still on AC, you should be able to achieve 200Mbps or more with little trouble.

    If you use an AP, you sidestep the issue of the WiFi in the router (built in Wi-Fi is generally quite poor in single unit devices) and you'll have a better experience all round.

    I have a Plume system setup here, which is basically a whole home system but using AI in the background for a bit of automatic optimisation. I've been testing it for a few years and it works well.

    Not as good as wiring in but for me it maxes out my 50Mbps connection so I have no trouble. And I get Wi-Fi everywhere.
    I just checked and I’m getting 40.7 Mbs on WiFi in the garden, so I can’t complain too much at the moment.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,368
    rpjs said:

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    Get window screens. Yes, I know it's difficult in the UK with the typical styles of windows, but I find window screens à la Americaine to be a godsend. Should we eventually move back to the UK I will definitely be budgeting to re-do the windows of any house we buy with screen-friendly ones.
    Fairly trivial to buy some fine insect mesh and make a light frame that just sits in front of a sash window. In fact, I've done that....
  • @TOPPING what is your expertise?

    Any (other) Software Engineers in the house?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    NHS hospital

    Stocky said:

    Grandiose said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Something that would get great applause from me would be a coherent FTTP strategy from the Government, unfortunately so far I have not seen one.

    FTTP should be a USO and a right for all, just as a copper telephone line is. We should jolly well do the investment now and not have to worry about it again.

    FTTC and G.Fast have shown themselves to be complete and and utter waste of time and money. And at least Openreach has accepted that.

    Frankly I don't care if Openreach is the supplier or not - although I think the Government should own any investment it makes, with some kind of partial ownership - but we really do need to get on and sort this out.

    I have FTTC and I normally get a pretty good service. I’m not trying to stream 4k video though.

    What speed are you getting?
    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Anything above about 1KM away, it becomes fairly useless.

    Even 80Mbps isn't going to be sufficient in under a decade's time, my point is that FTTC is a poor technology because it was an (expensive) stopgap.

    G.Fast was just the same, although to their credit Openreach saw fit to stop it after a small-ish rollout.

    If we'd done FTTP from 2008 onwards as we should have done, we'd be in a much better position now.

    In my parents village in the countryside, FTTC has barely helped at all, most properties are simply too far away to benefit.
    And now you are teaching me.
    To be honest I still to this day don't know why the Government didn't mandate BDUK was FTTP only but for some reason they took BT's word for it.

    BT is a business, their asset is literally copper. It was obvious they were going to try and use it for as long as possible.

    Such a missed opportunity.

    If Boris Johnson has 80%+ FTTP coverage by 2024 I will be astonished but also he will have a round of applause from me.

    This is genuinely the best investment they could make alongside housing.
    FTTP would be a far better investment than hs2
    Ofcome reckon 55% of homes have access to 300Mbps if they want it, which is good enough for this generation.
    That is slightly misleading. Our superfast broadband package is for 300Mbps, i.e. that`s what I`m paying for, but I have no way of evidencing this as measurement on my devices, which rely on an element of wifi, measure 5 to 65Mbps (depending on the particular room in the house I am in).

    I suppose I could have access to 300Mbps, if I hard-wired every room of my house. But this is not practical and costly - and still wouldn`t achieve 300Mbps as the hardwiring would be copper not fibre.
    Check your router - it may be shit.
    Check the wifi capability of the router - that may be shit.

    As a start, plug a laptop into the router (with an actual cable) and check.

    Getting 300Mbps over Wifi would require some nice kit....
    Router is supplied by the broadband company (Gigaclear) and there is no option to have another router.

    The only laptop we have in the house is my wife`s fucking Mac which doesn`t support the lead necessary to plug it in the router.

    I`ve called Gigaclear a couple of times and they assure me I`m getting 300Mbps but it is disconcerting that I can`t check.

    If a visitor, say, had a non Apple laptop I could borrow to test router I think I`m right in saying that this may not be reliable as each device has it`s own limit - is this correct?

    Simple stuff to start with - is your WiFi 802.11g or 802.11n?

    The following is a rough guide

    image

    You can plug a better wifi unit into the device they supply, if you want to.

    Each device has it's own limits, yes.

    You can buy an adapter for your Apple laptop to ethernet cable, from Amazon - unless you spend a zillion at the Apple store.

    I recommend having one, if your are 100% Apple... either that or buy a really long ethernet cable to connect a PC in for testing purposes. Always good to have a way to hard connect...
    Thanks for your help, but simple stuff first! You`ve lost me already.

    Our router is a Genexis DRG 7820 if that helps.
    https://genexis.eu/content/uploads/2016/03/DRG-QIG-rev1.3.pdf

    It supports 1Gb ethernet so you'd max out your connection if you wired in. Ironically you wouldn't be able to use the full 1Gb service if you had that due to overheads, you'd be stuck around 900Mbps.

    https://www.davidmarlowphotography.com/section850030_352763.html

    I can't find any info on the WiFi speeds from it but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's either fast N, so 300Mbps maximum, or AC so 878Mbps or faster.

    It just looks a bit rubbish to be honest.

    If it were me, I'd buy another WiFi access point, plug it in and use the WiFi on that instead.
    Wouldn`t the WiFi access point be plugged into the router and therefore suffer the same limitations of the router?
    In quite a lot of cases, the "modem" bit is fine - it's cheap, standard tech. It's the Wifi that is shit.

    Which I why I suggested doing a wired test first....

    Good Wifi is expensive, requiring good design, components and manufacturing.

    Their site claims that they are using 802.11ac - which should be capable of what they claim.... *should*
    Is below what I need? Will this enable connection of both mac and iphone to router?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Adapter-Network-Compatible-100Mbps-Silver/dp/B07PMVVK88/ref=asc_df_B07PMVVK88/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=217971167670&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13132691618077554843&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046155&hvtargid=pla-682278272630&psc=1
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Speaking of which, I am as we speak on hold to TalkTalk to renew my broadband package. I am on their "average 67Mbps" bundle which constantly delivers around 25-45Mbps. For £23.50/month.

    I am looking/have looked at the others online now and note that they are all far more expensive.

    I have amazon, netflix, work from home which is super data-hungry, and use an iPad to do bits and bobs, and 25-45 seems fine for me. Not hugely different from being at work.

    Can 450Mbps be 10x better?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,368
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    NHS hospital

    Stocky said:

    Grandiose said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Something that would get great applause from me would be a coherent FTTP strategy from the Government, unfortunately so far I have not seen one.

    FTTP should be a USO and a right for all, just as a copper telephone line is. We should jolly well do the investment now and not have to worry about it again.

    FTTC and G.Fast have shown themselves to be complete and and utter waste of time and money. And at least Openreach has accepted that.

    Frankly I don't care if Openreach is the supplier or not - although I think the Government should own any investment it makes, with some kind of partial ownership - but we really do need to get on and sort this out.

    I have FTTC and I normally get a pretty good service. I’m not trying to stream 4k video though.

    What speed are you getting?
    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Anything above about 1KM away, it becomes fairly useless.

    Even 80Mbps isn't going to be sufficient in under a decade's time, my point is that FTTC is a poor technology because it was an (expensive) stopgap.

    G.Fast was just the same, although to their credit Openreach saw fit to stop it after a small-ish rollout.

    If we'd done FTTP from 2008 onwards as we should have done, we'd be in a much better position now.

    In my parents village in the countryside, FTTC has barely helped at all, most properties are simply too far away to benefit.
    And now you are teaching me.
    To be honest I still to this day don't know why the Government didn't mandate BDUK was FTTP only but for some reason they took BT's word for it.

    BT is a business, their asset is literally copper. It was obvious they were going to try and use it for as long as possible.

    Such a missed opportunity.

    If Boris Johnson has 80%+ FTTP coverage by 2024 I will be astonished but also he will have a round of applause from me.

    This is genuinely the best investment they could make alongside housing.
    FTTP would be a far better investment than hs2
    Ofcome reckon 55% of homes have access to 300Mbps if they want it, which is good enough for this generation.
    That is slightly misleading. Our superfast broadband package is for 300Mbps, i.e. that`s what I`m paying for, but I have no way of evidencing this as measurement on my devices, which rely on an element of wifi, measure 5 to 65Mbps (depending on the particular room in the house I am in).

    I suppose I could have access to 300Mbps, if I hard-wired every room of my house. But this is not practical and costly - and still wouldn`t achieve 300Mbps as the hardwiring would be copper not fibre.
    Check your router - it may be shit.
    Check the wifi capability of the router - that may be shit.

    As a start, plug a laptop into the router (with an actual cable) and check.

    Getting 300Mbps over Wifi would require some nice kit....
    Router is supplied by the broadband company (Gigaclear) and there is no option to have another router.

    The only laptop we have in the house is my wife`s fucking Mac which doesn`t support the lead necessary to plug it in the router.

    I`ve called Gigaclear a couple of times and they assure me I`m getting 300Mbps but it is disconcerting that I can`t check.

    If a visitor, say, had a non Apple laptop I could borrow to test router I think I`m right in saying that this may not be reliable as each device has it`s own limit - is this correct?

    Simple stuff to start with - is your WiFi 802.11g or 802.11n?

    The following is a rough guide

    image

    You can plug a better wifi unit into the device they supply, if you want to.

    Each device has it's own limits, yes.

    You can buy an adapter for your Apple laptop to ethernet cable, from Amazon - unless you spend a zillion at the Apple store.

    I recommend having one, if your are 100% Apple... either that or buy a really long ethernet cable to connect a PC in for testing purposes. Always good to have a way to hard connect...
    Thanks for your help, but simple stuff first! You`ve lost me already.

    Our router is a Genexis DRG 7820 if that helps.
    https://genexis.eu/content/uploads/2016/03/DRG-QIG-rev1.3.pdf

    It supports 1Gb ethernet so you'd max out your connection if you wired in. Ironically you wouldn't be able to use the full 1Gb service if you had that due to overheads, you'd be stuck around 900Mbps.

    https://www.davidmarlowphotography.com/section850030_352763.html

    I can't find any info on the WiFi speeds from it but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's either fast N, so 300Mbps maximum, or AC so 878Mbps or faster.

    It just looks a bit rubbish to be honest.

    If it were me, I'd buy another WiFi access point, plug it in and use the WiFi on that instead.
    Wouldn`t the WiFi access point be plugged into the router and therefore suffer the same limitations of the router?
    In quite a lot of cases, the "modem" bit is fine - it's cheap, standard tech. It's the Wifi that is shit.

    Which I why I suggested doing a wired test first....

    Good Wifi is expensive, requiring good design, components and manufacturing.

    Their site claims that they are using 802.11ac - which should be capable of what they claim.... *should*
    Is below what I need? Will this enable connection of both mac and iphone to router?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Adapter-Network-Compatible-100Mbps-Silver/dp/B07PMVVK88/ref=asc_df_B07PMVVK88/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=217971167670&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13132691618077554843&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046155&hvtargid=pla-682278272630&psc=1
    Hmmmm never tried one of those with a phone - in *theory* should work.

    Which Mac do you have?

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited August 2020

    pm215 said:


    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Speaking as somebody still on ADSL2 at ~11Mbps, I would be delighted to have the opportunity to get FTTC, but Openreach aren't providing it for my cabinet. (The cabinet was in the 'planning to roll out' stage for years, then in 'supported but there's a waiting list and if you try to place an order to get on the waiting list it just gets cancelled' for a year and is now simply not listed as offering FTTC at all.) I could in theory get broadband from Virgin but I like my current small boutique-ish ISP and don't want to switch to an enormous unresponsive mass market company; so I live with the slower speed instead.
    The choice should surely be as such.

    Anyone can get FTTP, if you want less speed you pay less, if you want more speed you pay more.

    But you don't get that in most places. You're quite rare in that you have Virgin, most people don't.

    For me it's a BT line or a BT line. The ISP is basically irrelevant, the infrastructure is the same.

    If that is to be the case, it should be future-proof infrastructure that doesn't become useless after a decade as FTTC has and will.

    By the 2030s, FTTC will be too slow.
    I've got FTTP, it's a true 150 Meg connection - could have 900 but not needed for now.

    Edit - It's provided by BT (And there don't seem to be alternative providers to go to for the moment) to take up Max's point. All the advertised Fibre comparison seems to assume FTTC.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    @TOPPING what is your expertise?

    Any (other) Software Engineers in the house?

    Nothing really, sad to say.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Andy_JS said:

    "What we can learn from the Swedish paradox
    There's nothing libertarian about this country. So why the laissez-faire response to Covid-19?
    BY FREDDIE SAYERS"

    https://unherd.com/2020/08/why-sweden-is-different-when-it-comes-to-covid/

    Brilliant piece.

    I'm moving to the Stockholm archipelago!!!
    I love Stockholm but it gets a bit oppressive in the winter.
  • TOPPING said:

    @TOPPING what is your expertise?

    Any (other) Software Engineers in the house?

    Nothing really, sad to say.
    Bollocks. May I ask what your line of work is?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    rpjs said:

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    Get window screens. Yes, I know it's difficult in the UK with the typical styles of windows, but I find window screens à la Americaine to be a godsend. Should we eventually move back to the UK I will definitely be budgeting to re-do the windows of any house we buy with screen-friendly ones.
    Fairly trivial to buy some fine insect mesh and make a light frame that just sits in front of a sash window. In fact, I've done that....
    Yes indeed, sash windows are compatible with screens and so most domestic windows in the US are such. In the UK it seems like only older windows are sash and almost all modern / replacement ones are outward-openers. That said, my m-i-l in Rhode Island has some nice outward-opener windows which have a screen on the inside and are opened and closed by a crank.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    I get 28MBPS right now, from Sky, which is frankly quite rubbish. 300 yards away a neighbour is getting 200MBPS from Virgin.

    I just can't be arsed to change
  • TOPPING said:

    Speaking of which, I am as we speak on hold to TalkTalk to renew my broadband package. I am on their "average 67Mbps" bundle which constantly delivers around 25-45Mbps. For £23.50/month.

    I am looking/have looked at the others online now and note that they are all far more expensive.

    I have amazon, netflix, work from home which is super data-hungry, and use an iPad to do bits and bobs, and 25-45 seems fine for me. Not hugely different from being at work.

    Can 450Mbps be 10x better?

    It depends what you do I suppose.

    I would suggest that in a decade it won't be enough. I suspect a decade ago you would have said that 5Mbps was enough for you.

    Five people at home, all watching Netflix, is probably 20Mbps*5 = 100Mbps minimum. And that's a relatively common occurrence for many.

    For me it's about options. If you want slower you pay less. But I don't have a choice, I pay the same and my speed is slow, I have no choice.

    Strangely for a social democrat (recently called a Communist), I am advocating competition and choice!
  • Pulpstar said:

    pm215 said:


    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Speaking as somebody still on ADSL2 at ~11Mbps, I would be delighted to have the opportunity to get FTTC, but Openreach aren't providing it for my cabinet. (The cabinet was in the 'planning to roll out' stage for years, then in 'supported but there's a waiting list and if you try to place an order to get on the waiting list it just gets cancelled' for a year and is now simply not listed as offering FTTC at all.) I could in theory get broadband from Virgin but I like my current small boutique-ish ISP and don't want to switch to an enormous unresponsive mass market company; so I live with the slower speed instead.
    The choice should surely be as such.

    Anyone can get FTTP, if you want less speed you pay less, if you want more speed you pay more.

    But you don't get that in most places. You're quite rare in that you have Virgin, most people don't.

    For me it's a BT line or a BT line. The ISP is basically irrelevant, the infrastructure is the same.

    If that is to be the case, it should be future-proof infrastructure that doesn't become useless after a decade as FTTC has and will.

    By the 2030s, FTTC will be too slow.
    I've got FTTP, it's a true 150 Meg connection - could have 900 but not needed for now.

    Edit - It's provided by BT (And there don't seem to be alternative providers to go to for the moment) to take up Max's point. All the advertised Fibre comparison seems to assume FTTC.
    TalkTalk: https://www.talktalk.co.uk/shop/broadband/futurefibre?mml=Fibre_Broadband|Future_Fibre|5

    Sky (pre-registration): https://www.sky.com/fibre-1gb/register
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    Get window screens. Yes, I know it's difficult in the UK with the typical styles of windows, but I find window screens à la Americaine to be a godsend. Should we eventually move back to the UK I will definitely be budgeting to re-do the windows of any house we buy with screen-friendly ones.
    Fairly trivial to buy some fine insect mesh and make a light frame that just sits in front of a sash window. In fact, I've done that....
    Yes indeed, sash windows are compatible with screens and so most domestic windows in the US are such. In the UK it seems like only older windows are sash and almost all modern / replacement ones are outward-openers. That said, my m-i-l in Rhode Island has some nice outward-opener windows which have a screen on the inside and are opened and closed by a crank.
    How much does she pay the crank? Is he seasonal or year round?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    rpjs said:

    rpjs said:

    TOPPING said:

    I bloody love PB.

    First we had @eek and @Sandpit explaining, in terms even I could understand, the issue with the track and trace app.

    And now we have @CorrectHorseBattery and @Malmesbury (among others) explaining the world of wifi, speeds, and routers.

    To say nothing of @Dura_Ace's speaking in tongues about car specs.

    And @HYUFD's general adoration of the Conservative Party.

    Good stuff.

    I can do stuff on birds and moths....
    I know nothing about birds, nor moths.

    Do you have any tips for stopping them coming into my room and buzzing around at night?
    Get window screens. Yes, I know it's difficult in the UK with the typical styles of windows, but I find window screens à la Americaine to be a godsend. Should we eventually move back to the UK I will definitely be budgeting to re-do the windows of any house we buy with screen-friendly ones.
    Fairly trivial to buy some fine insect mesh and make a light frame that just sits in front of a sash window. In fact, I've done that....
    Yes indeed, sash windows are compatible with screens and so most domestic windows in the US are such. In the UK it seems like only older windows are sash and almost all modern / replacement ones are outward-openers. That said, my m-i-l in Rhode Island has some nice outward-opener windows which have a screen on the inside and are opened and closed by a crank.
    How much does she pay the crank? Is he seasonal or year round?
    It's Rhode Island so cranks are pretty ubiquitous there.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    NHS hospital

    Stocky said:

    Grandiose said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Something that would get great applause from me would be a coherent FTTP strategy from the Government, unfortunately so far I have not seen one.

    FTTP should be a USO and a right for all, just as a copper telephone line is. We should jolly well do the investment now and not have to worry about it again.

    FTTC and G.Fast have shown themselves to be complete and and utter waste of time and money. And at least Openreach has accepted that.

    Frankly I don't care if Openreach is the supplier or not - although I think the Government should own any investment it makes, with some kind of partial ownership - but we really do need to get on and sort this out.

    I have FTTC and I normally get a pretty good service. I’m not trying to stream 4k video though.

    What speed are you getting?
    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Anything above about 1KM away, it becomes fairly useless.

    Even 80Mbps isn't going to be sufficient in under a decade's time, my point is that FTTC is a poor technology because it was an (expensive) stopgap.

    G.Fast was just the same, although to their credit Openreach saw fit to stop it after a small-ish rollout.

    If we'd done FTTP from 2008 onwards as we should have done, we'd be in a much better position now.

    In my parents village in the countryside, FTTC has barely helped at all, most properties are simply too far away to benefit.
    And now you are teaching me.
    To be honest I still to this day don't know why the Government didn't mandate BDUK was FTTP only but for some reason they took BT's word for it.

    BT is a business, their asset is literally copper. It was obvious they were going to try and use it for as long as possible.

    Such a missed opportunity.

    If Boris Johnson has 80%+ FTTP coverage by 2024 I will be astonished but also he will have a round of applause from me.

    This is genuinely the best investment they could make alongside housing.
    FTTP would be a far better investment than hs2
    Ofcome reckon 55% of homes have access to 300Mbps if they want it, which is good enough for this generation.
    That is slightly misleading. Our superfast broadband package is for 300Mbps, i.e. that`s what I`m paying for, but I have no way of evidencing this as measurement on my devices, which rely on an element of wifi, measure 5 to 65Mbps (depending on the particular room in the house I am in).

    I suppose I could have access to 300Mbps, if I hard-wired every room of my house. But this is not practical and costly - and still wouldn`t achieve 300Mbps as the hardwiring would be copper not fibre.
    Check your router - it may be shit.
    Check the wifi capability of the router - that may be shit.

    As a start, plug a laptop into the router (with an actual cable) and check.

    Getting 300Mbps over Wifi would require some nice kit....
    Router is supplied by the broadband company (Gigaclear) and there is no option to have another router.

    The only laptop we have in the house is my wife`s fucking Mac which doesn`t support the lead necessary to plug it in the router.

    I`ve called Gigaclear a couple of times and they assure me I`m getting 300Mbps but it is disconcerting that I can`t check.

    If a visitor, say, had a non Apple laptop I could borrow to test router I think I`m right in saying that this may not be reliable as each device has it`s own limit - is this correct?

    Simple stuff to start with - is your WiFi 802.11g or 802.11n?

    The following is a rough guide

    image

    You can plug a better wifi unit into the device they supply, if you want to.

    Each device has it's own limits, yes.

    You can buy an adapter for your Apple laptop to ethernet cable, from Amazon - unless you spend a zillion at the Apple store.

    I recommend having one, if your are 100% Apple... either that or buy a really long ethernet cable to connect a PC in for testing purposes. Always good to have a way to hard connect...
    Thanks for your help, but simple stuff first! You`ve lost me already.

    Our router is a Genexis DRG 7820 if that helps.
    https://genexis.eu/content/uploads/2016/03/DRG-QIG-rev1.3.pdf

    It supports 1Gb ethernet so you'd max out your connection if you wired in. Ironically you wouldn't be able to use the full 1Gb service if you had that due to overheads, you'd be stuck around 900Mbps.

    https://www.davidmarlowphotography.com/section850030_352763.html

    I can't find any info on the WiFi speeds from it but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's either fast N, so 300Mbps maximum, or AC so 878Mbps or faster.

    It just looks a bit rubbish to be honest.

    If it were me, I'd buy another WiFi access point, plug it in and use the WiFi on that instead.
    Wouldn`t the WiFi access point be plugged into the router and therefore suffer the same limitations of the router?
    In quite a lot of cases, the "modem" bit is fine - it's cheap, standard tech. It's the Wifi that is shit.

    Which I why I suggested doing a wired test first....

    Good Wifi is expensive, requiring good design, components and manufacturing.

    Their site claims that they are using 802.11ac - which should be capable of what they claim.... *should*
    Is below what I need? Will this enable connection of both mac and iphone to router?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Adapter-Network-Compatible-100Mbps-Silver/dp/B07PMVVK88/ref=asc_df_B07PMVVK88/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=217971167670&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13132691618077554843&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046155&hvtargid=pla-682278272630&psc=1
    Hmmmm never tried one of those with a phone - in *theory* should work.

    Which Mac do you have?

    Just asked my wife, she says it is a Macbook Pro
  • Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    NHS hospital

    Stocky said:

    Grandiose said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Something that would get great applause from me would be a coherent FTTP strategy from the Government, unfortunately so far I have not seen one.

    FTTP should be a USO and a right for all, just as a copper telephone line is. We should jolly well do the investment now and not have to worry about it again.

    FTTC and G.Fast have shown themselves to be complete and and utter waste of time and money. And at least Openreach has accepted that.

    Frankly I don't care if Openreach is the supplier or not - although I think the Government should own any investment it makes, with some kind of partial ownership - but we really do need to get on and sort this out.

    I have FTTC and I normally get a pretty good service. I’m not trying to stream 4k video though.

    What speed are you getting?
    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Anything above about 1KM away, it becomes fairly useless.

    Even 80Mbps isn't going to be sufficient in under a decade's time, my point is that FTTC is a poor technology because it was an (expensive) stopgap.

    G.Fast was just the same, although to their credit Openreach saw fit to stop it after a small-ish rollout.

    If we'd done FTTP from 2008 onwards as we should have done, we'd be in a much better position now.

    In my parents village in the countryside, FTTC has barely helped at all, most properties are simply too far away to benefit.
    And now you are teaching me.
    To be honest I still to this day don't know why the Government didn't mandate BDUK was FTTP only but for some reason they took BT's word for it.

    BT is a business, their asset is literally copper. It was obvious they were going to try and use it for as long as possible.

    Such a missed opportunity.

    If Boris Johnson has 80%+ FTTP coverage by 2024 I will be astonished but also he will have a round of applause from me.

    This is genuinely the best investment they could make alongside housing.
    FTTP would be a far better investment than hs2
    Ofcome reckon 55% of homes have access to 300Mbps if they want it, which is good enough for this generation.
    That is slightly misleading. Our superfast broadband package is for 300Mbps, i.e. that`s what I`m paying for, but I have no way of evidencing this as measurement on my devices, which rely on an element of wifi, measure 5 to 65Mbps (depending on the particular room in the house I am in).

    I suppose I could have access to 300Mbps, if I hard-wired every room of my house. But this is not practical and costly - and still wouldn`t achieve 300Mbps as the hardwiring would be copper not fibre.
    Check your router - it may be shit.
    Check the wifi capability of the router - that may be shit.

    As a start, plug a laptop into the router (with an actual cable) and check.

    Getting 300Mbps over Wifi would require some nice kit....
    Router is supplied by the broadband company (Gigaclear) and there is no option to have another router.

    The only laptop we have in the house is my wife`s fucking Mac which doesn`t support the lead necessary to plug it in the router.

    I`ve called Gigaclear a couple of times and they assure me I`m getting 300Mbps but it is disconcerting that I can`t check.

    If a visitor, say, had a non Apple laptop I could borrow to test router I think I`m right in saying that this may not be reliable as each device has it`s own limit - is this correct?

    Simple stuff to start with - is your WiFi 802.11g or 802.11n?

    The following is a rough guide

    image

    You can plug a better wifi unit into the device they supply, if you want to.

    Each device has it's own limits, yes.

    You can buy an adapter for your Apple laptop to ethernet cable, from Amazon - unless you spend a zillion at the Apple store.

    I recommend having one, if your are 100% Apple... either that or buy a really long ethernet cable to connect a PC in for testing purposes. Always good to have a way to hard connect...
    Thanks for your help, but simple stuff first! You`ve lost me already.

    Our router is a Genexis DRG 7820 if that helps.
    https://genexis.eu/content/uploads/2016/03/DRG-QIG-rev1.3.pdf

    It supports 1Gb ethernet so you'd max out your connection if you wired in. Ironically you wouldn't be able to use the full 1Gb service if you had that due to overheads, you'd be stuck around 900Mbps.

    https://www.davidmarlowphotography.com/section850030_352763.html

    I can't find any info on the WiFi speeds from it but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's either fast N, so 300Mbps maximum, or AC so 878Mbps or faster.

    It just looks a bit rubbish to be honest.

    If it were me, I'd buy another WiFi access point, plug it in and use the WiFi on that instead.
    Wouldn`t the WiFi access point be plugged into the router and therefore suffer the same limitations of the router?
    In quite a lot of cases, the "modem" bit is fine - it's cheap, standard tech. It's the Wifi that is shit.

    Which I why I suggested doing a wired test first....

    Good Wifi is expensive, requiring good design, components and manufacturing.

    Their site claims that they are using 802.11ac - which should be capable of what they claim.... *should*
    Is below what I need? Will this enable connection of both mac and iphone to router?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Adapter-Network-Compatible-100Mbps-Silver/dp/B07PMVVK88/ref=asc_df_B07PMVVK88/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=217971167670&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13132691618077554843&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046155&hvtargid=pla-682278272630&psc=1
    Hmmmm never tried one of those with a phone - in *theory* should work.

    Which Mac do you have?

    Just asked my wife, she says it is a Macbook Pro
    Thunderbolt to Ethernet adaptor is what she needs. What year is it, do you know?
  • Might even be USB-C these days, my MacBook Pro is a few years old. I need to replace it soon.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,368
    edited August 2020
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    NHS hospital

    Stocky said:

    Grandiose said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Something that would get great applause from me would be a coherent FTTP strategy from the Government, unfortunately so far I have not seen one.

    FTTP should be a USO and a right for all, just as a copper telephone line is. We should jolly well do the investment now and not have to worry about it again.

    FTTC and G.Fast have shown themselves to be complete and and utter waste of time and money. And at least Openreach has accepted that.

    Frankly I don't care if Openreach is the supplier or not - although I think the Government should own any investment it makes, with some kind of partial ownership - but we really do need to get on and sort this out.

    I have FTTC and I normally get a pretty good service. I’m not trying to stream 4k video though.

    What speed are you getting?
    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Anything above about 1KM away, it becomes fairly useless.

    Even 80Mbps isn't going to be sufficient in under a decade's time, my point is that FTTC is a poor technology because it was an (expensive) stopgap.

    G.Fast was just the same, although to their credit Openreach saw fit to stop it after a small-ish rollout.

    If we'd done FTTP from 2008 onwards as we should have done, we'd be in a much better position now.

    In my parents village in the countryside, FTTC has barely helped at all, most properties are simply too far away to benefit.
    And now you are teaching me.
    To be honest I still to this day don't know why the Government didn't mandate BDUK was FTTP only but for some reason they took BT's word for it.

    BT is a business, their asset is literally copper. It was obvious they were going to try and use it for as long as possible.

    Such a missed opportunity.

    If Boris Johnson has 80%+ FTTP coverage by 2024 I will be astonished but also he will have a round of applause from me.

    This is genuinely the best investment they could make alongside housing.
    FTTP would be a far better investment than hs2
    Ofcome reckon 55% of homes have access to 300Mbps if they want it, which is good enough for this generation.
    That is slightly misleading. Our superfast broadband package is for 300Mbps, i.e. that`s what I`m paying for, but I have no way of evidencing this as measurement on my devices, which rely on an element of wifi, measure 5 to 65Mbps (depending on the particular room in the house I am in).

    I suppose I could have access to 300Mbps, if I hard-wired every room of my house. But this is not practical and costly - and still wouldn`t achieve 300Mbps as the hardwiring would be copper not fibre.
    Check your router - it may be shit.
    Check the wifi capability of the router - that may be shit.

    As a start, plug a laptop into the router (with an actual cable) and check.

    Getting 300Mbps over Wifi would require some nice kit....
    Router is supplied by the broadband company (Gigaclear) and there is no option to have another router.

    The only laptop we have in the house is my wife`s fucking Mac which doesn`t support the lead necessary to plug it in the router.

    I`ve called Gigaclear a couple of times and they assure me I`m getting 300Mbps but it is disconcerting that I can`t check.

    If a visitor, say, had a non Apple laptop I could borrow to test router I think I`m right in saying that this may not be reliable as each device has it`s own limit - is this correct?

    Simple stuff to start with - is your WiFi 802.11g or 802.11n?

    The following is a rough guide

    image

    You can plug a better wifi unit into the device they supply, if you want to.

    Each device has it's own limits, yes.

    You can buy an adapter for your Apple laptop to ethernet cable, from Amazon - unless you spend a zillion at the Apple store.

    I recommend having one, if your are 100% Apple... either that or buy a really long ethernet cable to connect a PC in for testing purposes. Always good to have a way to hard connect...
    Thanks for your help, but simple stuff first! You`ve lost me already.

    Our router is a Genexis DRG 7820 if that helps.
    https://genexis.eu/content/uploads/2016/03/DRG-QIG-rev1.3.pdf

    It supports 1Gb ethernet so you'd max out your connection if you wired in. Ironically you wouldn't be able to use the full 1Gb service if you had that due to overheads, you'd be stuck around 900Mbps.

    https://www.davidmarlowphotography.com/section850030_352763.html

    I can't find any info on the WiFi speeds from it but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's either fast N, so 300Mbps maximum, or AC so 878Mbps or faster.

    It just looks a bit rubbish to be honest.

    If it were me, I'd buy another WiFi access point, plug it in and use the WiFi on that instead.
    Wouldn`t the WiFi access point be plugged into the router and therefore suffer the same limitations of the router?
    In quite a lot of cases, the "modem" bit is fine - it's cheap, standard tech. It's the Wifi that is shit.

    Which I why I suggested doing a wired test first....

    Good Wifi is expensive, requiring good design, components and manufacturing.

    Their site claims that they are using 802.11ac - which should be capable of what they claim.... *should*
    Is below what I need? Will this enable connection of both mac and iphone to router?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Adapter-Network-Compatible-100Mbps-Silver/dp/B07PMVVK88/ref=asc_df_B07PMVVK88/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=217971167670&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13132691618077554843&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046155&hvtargid=pla-682278272630&psc=1
    Hmmmm never tried one of those with a phone - in *theory* should work.

    Which Mac do you have?

    Just asked my wife, she says it is a Macbook Pro
    That covers quite a bit of territory. Identify the ports on it with -

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201736
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited August 2020

    Pulpstar said:

    pm215 said:


    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Speaking as somebody still on ADSL2 at ~11Mbps, I would be delighted to have the opportunity to get FTTC, but Openreach aren't providing it for my cabinet. (The cabinet was in the 'planning to roll out' stage for years, then in 'supported but there's a waiting list and if you try to place an order to get on the waiting list it just gets cancelled' for a year and is now simply not listed as offering FTTC at all.) I could in theory get broadband from Virgin but I like my current small boutique-ish ISP and don't want to switch to an enormous unresponsive mass market company; so I live with the slower speed instead.
    The choice should surely be as such.

    Anyone can get FTTP, if you want less speed you pay less, if you want more speed you pay more.

    But you don't get that in most places. You're quite rare in that you have Virgin, most people don't.

    For me it's a BT line or a BT line. The ISP is basically irrelevant, the infrastructure is the same.

    If that is to be the case, it should be future-proof infrastructure that doesn't become useless after a decade as FTTC has and will.

    By the 2030s, FTTC will be too slow.
    I've got FTTP, it's a true 150 Meg connection - could have 900 but not needed for now.

    Edit - It's provided by BT (And there don't seem to be alternative providers to go to for the moment) to take up Max's point. All the advertised Fibre comparison seems to assume FTTC.
    TalkTalk: https://www.talktalk.co.uk/shop/broadband/futurefibre?mml=Fibre_Broadband|Future_Fibre|5

    Sky (pre-registration): https://www.sky.com/fibre-1gb/register
    From the ts and cs pdf

    https://m0.ttxm.co.uk/pdf/legal/TalkTalk_Residential_Standard_Trial_Terms_and_Conditions_GFast_v2.0.pdf

    Faster 150 Fibre is TalkTalk’s newest offering and provides an even speedier alternative to our entry level Faster Fibre 38Mb product. These speeds will be delivered through a new technology called “G.fast”, which works like Fibre to the Cabinet but delivers faster speeds over shorter distances.

    https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/06/isp-talktalk-prep-openreach-fttp-ultrafast-broadband-for-july.html

    Broadband ISP TalkTalk UK has informed ISPreview.co.uk that they intend to start offering ultrafast Fibre-to-the-Premises (FTTP) packages via Openreach’s national network from July 2020, which follows a limited six month long customer trial that began last December 2019.
    At present if you want “ultrafast” (100Mbps+) speeds from TalkTalk then you can either take their hybrid-fibre G.fast (Openreach) based products (covers 2.8 million UK premises) or, if you’re very lucky, you might be within reach of their now Cityfibre owned FibreNation FTTP platform (e.g. York, Dewsbury etc.). In the future TalkTalk will also gain access to the rest of Cityfibre’s full fibre network.

    G.Fast =/= FTTP

    And no I don't live in one of those "Fibrenation" cities, I'm in a small village.

    I believe me and Gallowgate are correct in thinking the only widely available FTTP (Where it is available) if you're outside a specific scheme is essentially a BT monopoly right now.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    NHS hospital

    Stocky said:

    Grandiose said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Something that would get great applause from me would be a coherent FTTP strategy from the Government, unfortunately so far I have not seen one.

    FTTP should be a USO and a right for all, just as a copper telephone line is. We should jolly well do the investment now and not have to worry about it again.

    FTTC and G.Fast have shown themselves to be complete and and utter waste of time and money. And at least Openreach has accepted that.

    Frankly I don't care if Openreach is the supplier or not - although I think the Government should own any investment it makes, with some kind of partial ownership - but we really do need to get on and sort this out.

    I have FTTC and I normally get a pretty good service. I’m not trying to stream 4k video though.

    What speed are you getting?
    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Anything above about 1KM away, it becomes fairly useless.

    Even 80Mbps isn't going to be sufficient in under a decade's time, my point is that FTTC is a poor technology because it was an (expensive) stopgap.

    G.Fast was just the same, although to their credit Openreach saw fit to stop it after a small-ish rollout.

    If we'd done FTTP from 2008 onwards as we should have done, we'd be in a much better position now.

    In my parents village in the countryside, FTTC has barely helped at all, most properties are simply too far away to benefit.
    And now you are teaching me.
    To be honest I still to this day don't know why the Government didn't mandate BDUK was FTTP only but for some reason they took BT's word for it.

    BT is a business, their asset is literally copper. It was obvious they were going to try and use it for as long as possible.

    Such a missed opportunity.

    If Boris Johnson has 80%+ FTTP coverage by 2024 I will be astonished but also he will have a round of applause from me.

    This is genuinely the best investment they could make alongside housing.
    FTTP would be a far better investment than hs2
    Ofcome reckon 55% of homes have access to 300Mbps if they want it, which is good enough for this generation.
    That is slightly misleading. Our superfast broadband package is for 300Mbps, i.e. that`s what I`m paying for, but I have no way of evidencing this as measurement on my devices, which rely on an element of wifi, measure 5 to 65Mbps (depending on the particular room in the house I am in).

    I suppose I could have access to 300Mbps, if I hard-wired every room of my house. But this is not practical and costly - and still wouldn`t achieve 300Mbps as the hardwiring would be copper not fibre.
    Check your router - it may be shit.
    Check the wifi capability of the router - that may be shit.

    As a start, plug a laptop into the router (with an actual cable) and check.

    Getting 300Mbps over Wifi would require some nice kit....
    Router is supplied by the broadband company (Gigaclear) and there is no option to have another router.

    The only laptop we have in the house is my wife`s fucking Mac which doesn`t support the lead necessary to plug it in the router.

    I`ve called Gigaclear a couple of times and they assure me I`m getting 300Mbps but it is disconcerting that I can`t check.

    If a visitor, say, had a non Apple laptop I could borrow to test router I think I`m right in saying that this may not be reliable as each device has it`s own limit - is this correct?

    Simple stuff to start with - is your WiFi 802.11g or 802.11n?

    The following is a rough guide

    image

    You can plug a better wifi unit into the device they supply, if you want to.

    Each device has it's own limits, yes.

    You can buy an adapter for your Apple laptop to ethernet cable, from Amazon - unless you spend a zillion at the Apple store.

    I recommend having one, if your are 100% Apple... either that or buy a really long ethernet cable to connect a PC in for testing purposes. Always good to have a way to hard connect...
    Thanks for your help, but simple stuff first! You`ve lost me already.

    Our router is a Genexis DRG 7820 if that helps.
    https://genexis.eu/content/uploads/2016/03/DRG-QIG-rev1.3.pdf

    It supports 1Gb ethernet so you'd max out your connection if you wired in. Ironically you wouldn't be able to use the full 1Gb service if you had that due to overheads, you'd be stuck around 900Mbps.

    https://www.davidmarlowphotography.com/section850030_352763.html

    I can't find any info on the WiFi speeds from it but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's either fast N, so 300Mbps maximum, or AC so 878Mbps or faster.

    It just looks a bit rubbish to be honest.

    If it were me, I'd buy another WiFi access point, plug it in and use the WiFi on that instead.
    Wouldn`t the WiFi access point be plugged into the router and therefore suffer the same limitations of the router?
    In quite a lot of cases, the "modem" bit is fine - it's cheap, standard tech. It's the Wifi that is shit.

    Which I why I suggested doing a wired test first....

    Good Wifi is expensive, requiring good design, components and manufacturing.

    Their site claims that they are using 802.11ac - which should be capable of what they claim.... *should*
    Is below what I need? Will this enable connection of both mac and iphone to router?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Adapter-Network-Compatible-100Mbps-Silver/dp/B07PMVVK88/ref=asc_df_B07PMVVK88/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=217971167670&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13132691618077554843&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046155&hvtargid=pla-682278272630&psc=1
    Hmmmm never tried one of those with a phone - in *theory* should work.

    Which Mac do you have?

    Just asked my wife, she says it is a Macbook Pro
    That covers quite a bit of territory. Identify the ports on it with -

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201736
    The third one down. Thunderbolt.
  • Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    Final comment on Broadband for the Rural North (B4RN)... they now offer a symmetrical 10,000 Mbps option... for any converted barn in the Dales wishing to set up as an 8k streaming service...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,368
    edited August 2020
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    NHS hospital

    Stocky said:

    Grandiose said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Something that would get great applause from me would be a coherent FTTP strategy from the Government, unfortunately so far I have not seen one.

    FTTP should be a USO and a right for all, just as a copper telephone line is. We should jolly well do the investment now and not have to worry about it again.

    FTTC and G.Fast have shown themselves to be complete and and utter waste of time and money. And at least Openreach has accepted that.

    Frankly I don't care if Openreach is the supplier or not - although I think the Government should own any investment it makes, with some kind of partial ownership - but we really do need to get on and sort this out.

    I have FTTC and I normally get a pretty good service. I’m not trying to stream 4k video though.

    What speed are you getting?
    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Anything above about 1KM away, it becomes fairly useless.

    Even 80Mbps isn't going to be sufficient in under a decade's time, my point is that FTTC is a poor technology because it was an (expensive) stopgap.

    G.Fast was just the same, although to their credit Openreach saw fit to stop it after a small-ish rollout.

    If we'd done FTTP from 2008 onwards as we should have done, we'd be in a much better position now.

    In my parents village in the countryside, FTTC has barely helped at all, most properties are simply too far away to benefit.
    And now you are teaching me.
    To be honest I still to this day don't know why the Government didn't mandate BDUK was FTTP only but for some reason they took BT's word for it.

    BT is a business, their asset is literally copper. It was obvious they were going to try and use it for as long as possible.

    Such a missed opportunity.

    If Boris Johnson has 80%+ FTTP coverage by 2024 I will be astonished but also he will have a round of applause from me.

    This is genuinely the best investment they could make alongside housing.
    FTTP would be a far better investment than hs2
    Ofcome reckon 55% of homes have access to 300Mbps if they want it, which is good enough for this generation.
    That is slightly misleading. Our superfast broadband package is for 300Mbps, i.e. that`s what I`m paying for, but I have no way of evidencing this as measurement on my devices, which rely on an element of wifi, measure 5 to 65Mbps (depending on the particular room in the house I am in).

    I suppose I could have access to 300Mbps, if I hard-wired every room of my house. But this is not practical and costly - and still wouldn`t achieve 300Mbps as the hardwiring would be copper not fibre.
    Check your router - it may be shit.
    Check the wifi capability of the router - that may be shit.

    As a start, plug a laptop into the router (with an actual cable) and check.

    Getting 300Mbps over Wifi would require some nice kit....
    Router is supplied by the broadband company (Gigaclear) and there is no option to have another router.

    The only laptop we have in the house is my wife`s fucking Mac which doesn`t support the lead necessary to plug it in the router.

    I`ve called Gigaclear a couple of times and they assure me I`m getting 300Mbps but it is disconcerting that I can`t check.

    If a visitor, say, had a non Apple laptop I could borrow to test router I think I`m right in saying that this may not be reliable as each device has it`s own limit - is this correct?

    Simple stuff to start with - is your WiFi 802.11g or 802.11n?

    The following is a rough guide

    image

    You can plug a better wifi unit into the device they supply, if you want to.

    Each device has it's own limits, yes.

    You can buy an adapter for your Apple laptop to ethernet cable, from Amazon - unless you spend a zillion at the Apple store.

    I recommend having one, if your are 100% Apple... either that or buy a really long ethernet cable to connect a PC in for testing purposes. Always good to have a way to hard connect...
    Thanks for your help, but simple stuff first! You`ve lost me already.

    Our router is a Genexis DRG 7820 if that helps.
    https://genexis.eu/content/uploads/2016/03/DRG-QIG-rev1.3.pdf

    It supports 1Gb ethernet so you'd max out your connection if you wired in. Ironically you wouldn't be able to use the full 1Gb service if you had that due to overheads, you'd be stuck around 900Mbps.

    https://www.davidmarlowphotography.com/section850030_352763.html

    I can't find any info on the WiFi speeds from it but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's either fast N, so 300Mbps maximum, or AC so 878Mbps or faster.

    It just looks a bit rubbish to be honest.

    If it were me, I'd buy another WiFi access point, plug it in and use the WiFi on that instead.
    Wouldn`t the WiFi access point be plugged into the router and therefore suffer the same limitations of the router?
    In quite a lot of cases, the "modem" bit is fine - it's cheap, standard tech. It's the Wifi that is shit.

    Which I why I suggested doing a wired test first....

    Good Wifi is expensive, requiring good design, components and manufacturing.

    Their site claims that they are using 802.11ac - which should be capable of what they claim.... *should*
    Is below what I need? Will this enable connection of both mac and iphone to router?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Adapter-Network-Compatible-100Mbps-Silver/dp/B07PMVVK88/ref=asc_df_B07PMVVK88/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=217971167670&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13132691618077554843&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046155&hvtargid=pla-682278272630&psc=1
    Hmmmm never tried one of those with a phone - in *theory* should work.

    Which Mac do you have?

    Just asked my wife, she says it is a Macbook Pro
    That covers quite a bit of territory. Identify the ports on it with -

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201736
    The third one down. Thunderbolt.
    I have a https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MD463ZM/A/thunderbolt-to-gigabit-ethernet-adapter

    for this purpose - I have a Mac with the same ports
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited August 2020

    TOPPING said:

    Speaking of which, I am as we speak on hold to TalkTalk to renew my broadband package. I am on their "average 67Mbps" bundle which constantly delivers around 25-45Mbps. For £23.50/month.

    I am looking/have looked at the others online now and note that they are all far more expensive.

    I have amazon, netflix, work from home which is super data-hungry, and use an iPad to do bits and bobs, and 25-45 seems fine for me. Not hugely different from being at work.

    Can 450Mbps be 10x better?

    It depends what you do I suppose.

    I would suggest that in a decade it won't be enough. I suspect a decade ago you would have said that 5Mbps was enough for you.

    Five people at home, all watching Netflix, is probably 20Mbps*5 = 100Mbps minimum. And that's a relatively common occurrence for many.

    For me it's about options. If you want slower you pay less. But I don't have a choice, I pay the same and my speed is slow, I have no choice.

    Strangely for a social democrat (recently called a Communist), I am advocating competition and choice!
    Meanwhile, I have been on the phone now for 56 mins with TalkTalk. Very helpful bloke sitting in South Africa. Not a lot getting solved, though.

    And yes, for the speeds, it actually does look like a get what you pay for situation which at least everyone understands. If you have the choice, that is.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited August 2020
    TOPPING said:


    Can 450Mbps be 10x better?

    I've got BT's 900mbit - much of the time you don't notice any real difference. It's only really with very large downloads that support multiple threads where it can take advantage (eg usenet, some of the big game company downloads, etc).

    Much of the rationale for ever-expanding speeds was based on the presumption that video/TV would need higher and higher bandwidth every year. The demand never materialised as anticipated though, and they've got much cleverer with compression too so it wasn't ever really needed (eg 4k is 20 to 25 mbit).

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited August 2020
    Carnyx said:

    Which “international waters in the Channel” would those be, Mr Ellwood?

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1292819804425007104?s=20

    12 nm is the limit, so there would be plenty of La Manche free for boating in - where English and French waters meet would be only in the Straits of Dover (and [edit] possibly the waters E and S of the CIs, though you will know better than me).

    Edit: could you be thinking of the EEZ?
    They are crossing at the narrowest point (unsurprisingly) which is the Strait of Dover/Pas de Calais which is in its entirety within either British or French territorial waters. Of course the Navy could patrol the international waters outside the SoD/PdC, where they're not crossing, if that would make him feel better.....



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46758600
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    NHS hospital

    Stocky said:

    Grandiose said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Something that would get great applause from me would be a coherent FTTP strategy from the Government, unfortunately so far I have not seen one.

    FTTP should be a USO and a right for all, just as a copper telephone line is. We should jolly well do the investment now and not have to worry about it again.

    FTTC and G.Fast have shown themselves to be complete and and utter waste of time and money. And at least Openreach has accepted that.

    Frankly I don't care if Openreach is the supplier or not - although I think the Government should own any investment it makes, with some kind of partial ownership - but we really do need to get on and sort this out.

    I have FTTC and I normally get a pretty good service. I’m not trying to stream 4k video though.

    What speed are you getting?
    FTTC has a limit of about ~79Mbps, if you're within a couple of hundred metres of the cabinet. As you get further away the speed drops.

    Anything above about 1KM away, it becomes fairly useless.

    Even 80Mbps isn't going to be sufficient in under a decade's time, my point is that FTTC is a poor technology because it was an (expensive) stopgap.

    G.Fast was just the same, although to their credit Openreach saw fit to stop it after a small-ish rollout.

    If we'd done FTTP from 2008 onwards as we should have done, we'd be in a much better position now.

    In my parents village in the countryside, FTTC has barely helped at all, most properties are simply too far away to benefit.
    And now you are teaching me.
    To be honest I still to this day don't know why the Government didn't mandate BDUK was FTTP only but for some reason they took BT's word for it.

    BT is a business, their asset is literally copper. It was obvious they were going to try and use it for as long as possible.

    Such a missed opportunity.

    If Boris Johnson has 80%+ FTTP coverage by 2024 I will be astonished but also he will have a round of applause from me.

    This is genuinely the best investment they could make alongside housing.
    FTTP would be a far better investment than hs2
    Ofcome reckon 55% of homes have access to 300Mbps if they want it, which is good enough for this generation.
    That is slightly misleading. Our superfast broadband package is for 300Mbps, i.e. that`s what I`m paying for, but I have no way of evidencing this as measurement on my devices, which rely on an element of wifi, measure 5 to 65Mbps (depending on the particular room in the house I am in).

    I suppose I could have access to 300Mbps, if I hard-wired every room of my house. But this is not practical and costly - and still wouldn`t achieve 300Mbps as the hardwiring would be copper not fibre.
    Check your router - it may be shit.
    Check the wifi capability of the router - that may be shit.

    As a start, plug a laptop into the router (with an actual cable) and check.

    Getting 300Mbps over Wifi would require some nice kit....
    Router is supplied by the broadband company (Gigaclear) and there is no option to have another router.

    The only laptop we have in the house is my wife`s fucking Mac which doesn`t support the lead necessary to plug it in the router.

    I`ve called Gigaclear a couple of times and they assure me I`m getting 300Mbps but it is disconcerting that I can`t check.

    If a visitor, say, had a non Apple laptop I could borrow to test router I think I`m right in saying that this may not be reliable as each device has it`s own limit - is this correct?

    Simple stuff to start with - is your WiFi 802.11g or 802.11n?

    The following is a rough guide

    image

    You can plug a better wifi unit into the device they supply, if you want to.

    Each device has it's own limits, yes.

    You can buy an adapter for your Apple laptop to ethernet cable, from Amazon - unless you spend a zillion at the Apple store.

    I recommend having one, if your are 100% Apple... either that or buy a really long ethernet cable to connect a PC in for testing purposes. Always good to have a way to hard connect...
    Thanks for your help, but simple stuff first! You`ve lost me already.

    Our router is a Genexis DRG 7820 if that helps.
    https://genexis.eu/content/uploads/2016/03/DRG-QIG-rev1.3.pdf

    It supports 1Gb ethernet so you'd max out your connection if you wired in. Ironically you wouldn't be able to use the full 1Gb service if you had that due to overheads, you'd be stuck around 900Mbps.

    https://www.davidmarlowphotography.com/section850030_352763.html

    I can't find any info on the WiFi speeds from it but I'm gonna take a wild guess and say it's either fast N, so 300Mbps maximum, or AC so 878Mbps or faster.

    It just looks a bit rubbish to be honest.

    If it were me, I'd buy another WiFi access point, plug it in and use the WiFi on that instead.
    Wouldn`t the WiFi access point be plugged into the router and therefore suffer the same limitations of the router?
    In quite a lot of cases, the "modem" bit is fine - it's cheap, standard tech. It's the Wifi that is shit.

    Which I why I suggested doing a wired test first....

    Good Wifi is expensive, requiring good design, components and manufacturing.

    Their site claims that they are using 802.11ac - which should be capable of what they claim.... *should*
    Is below what I need? Will this enable connection of both mac and iphone to router?

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethernet-Adapter-Network-Compatible-100Mbps-Silver/dp/B07PMVVK88/ref=asc_df_B07PMVVK88/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=217971167670&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13132691618077554843&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9046155&hvtargid=pla-682278272630&psc=1
    Hmmmm never tried one of those with a phone - in *theory* should work.

    Which Mac do you have?

    Just asked my wife, she says it is a Macbook Pro
    That covers quite a bit of territory. Identify the ports on it with -

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201736
    The third one down. Thunderbolt.
    I have a https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MD463ZM/A/thunderbolt-to-gigabit-ethernet-adapter

    for this purpose - I have a Mac with the same ports
    Excellent - you are a star - I`ll order one.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766

    This thread has run out of Mbps

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    TOPPING said:

    @TOPPING what is your expertise?

    Any (other) Software Engineers in the house?

    Nothing really, sad to say.
    Can you not use a bayonet?
  • El_SidEl_Sid Posts: 145

    Carnyx said:

    Which “international waters in the Channel” would those be, Mr Ellwood?

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1292819804425007104?s=20

    12 nm is the limit, so there would be plenty of La Manche free for boating in - where English and French waters meet would be only in the Straits of Dover (and [edit] possibly the waters E and S of the CIs, though you will know better than me).

    Edit: could you be thinking of the EEZ?
    They are crossing at the narrowest point (unsurprisingly) which is the Strait of Dover/Pas de Calais which is in its entirety within either British or French territorial waters.
    It's more complicated than that, as the Channel is a "strait used for international navigation" per UNCLOS Part III : https://www.un.org/depts/los/convention_agreements/texts/unclos/part3.htm

    Which is why Russian warships regularly sailed through it when Ellwood was a defence minister in a way that would not be possible in waters that were solely territorial. It's understandable if he thinks primarily in those terms.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Latest polls looking good for Biden:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720

    Well, that was an interesting guest we just had over for lunch....

    Her father's fiance was Sophie Scholl, a member of the White Rose resistance to the Nazi's, guillotined at 21. Her father, also a member of the White Rose, somehow survived the war.

    That's what you call political activism....

    (Our guest was also at the heart of everything in Laurel Canyon in the late 60's. Photos of her then look like Vogue photo-shoots. The litany of people she was close to then was jaw-dropping. Her best female friend was killed by the Manson family. She was very close to Jim Morrison - although somehow managed to stay a virgin until her wedding night!)

    She is still modelling - at 73.

    This post sent me scuttling to my bookshelf where I found Inge Scholl's Die weisse Rose which had been a required text for a short German course I took in 1963. Inge was Sophie's sister I think, and so was your guest's aunt I suppose. The past comes alive with this kind of connection.
This discussion has been closed.