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  • Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The voters who are still backing Trump"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/29/opinions/swing-voters-midwest-trump-support-thau/index.html

    "And, each month for the past 17 months, I've had a unique window into the Americans largely responsible for giving the president his slim Electoral College victory: so-called "Obama-Trump" swing voters across the upper Midwest.
    Our Swing Voter Project has uncovered that many of these people, who live in places such as Canton, Ohio; Davenport, Iowa; Erie, Pennsylvania; and Macomb County, Michigan, prefer Trump over Biden. In fact, 22 of 33 respondents in these four most recent locations feel this way."

    That’s literally 33 respondents ?
    Not the most statistically significant sample (& your link is labelled an opinion piece rather than news).
    Focus groups can be useful. For example, the Birmingham Northfield focus group for Newsnight that correctly predicted the Tories would win the seat for the first time in 30 years.
    That group was devastating for Jezza.
    We should have ditched Jezza before the GE.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    The greatest single artistic creation of the USA is black American music, and all that came therefrom.

    But this did not come purely from African slave roots. It needed gifted African American musicians to incorporate European classical modes, Anglo-Celtic folk tunes, agricultural/religious English poetry, Welsh, Scots and Gaelic harmonies, and so on and so forth.

    The genius of American music would not exist without cultural appropriation. The concept is poisonous for all art. Especially American art.

    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4632964&t=1596058487036
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,732
    ķ
    o
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    Dreadlocks are Jewish in origin, adopted as the mark of a Nazarine.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 5,615

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Wasn't planning to! But please note, have my own sources of info on this topic.
    And the democracy index I linked is pretty widely respected and probably has a better oversight than a partisan shill.

    How can you call out the uk when things like this happen

    "The blend of federal agents -- drawn from the CBP, US Marshals Service, and ICE -- rolled onto the streets in unmarked vehicles. Out of these vehicles sprang agents dressed like soldiers, wearing no markings clearly identifying the officers or the agency they represented. Residents were taken off the street to unknown locations for questioning. They were later released and given no paperwork that informed them who had detained them or for what reason."

    And your government tries to defend it in court. When it happens in places like China we denounce that sort of thing.

    source of quote
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200724/14025644974/court-blocks-federal-officers-attacking-arresting-reporters-covering-protests-portland.shtml

    May be a shill - or rather a hack - but yours truly shills/hacks for the DEMOCRATS. It ain't MY government, bub - it's Trumpsky's

    Ah I see like under Obama who I was believe from your side of the fence who when taking office the USA was sitting at rank 20 of the world index of press freedom and during his tenure managed to help that slide to 41 by his actions against press freedoms....those democrats .

    The world press index is compiled by Reporters without borders as no doubt you will want to cast aspersions on their credibility
    Look at the specific points I made. Which are based on personal experience NOT surfing the web.
    Your points were its happening under a Trump regime and gerrymandering and voter supression wasn't so bad.

    My points were backed by research by international groups who collate data and summarise it into an indexed measure, internation groups with good reputations.

    Your points are based on personal anecdote and come from a known partisan source.
    You are almost as big a liar as Trumpsky. Certainly a truth twister.

    Go soak yer fool head.
    Aw diddums did I hit a nerve. I wasn't saying either side was worse than the other both democrats and republicans get up to the same thing and I fully expect the US to slide further down both indexes no matter who wins.

    All electing Trump did was possibly accelerate the decline. My only interest in the us election is for betting possibilities and sadly as your electoral system grows ever more corrupt it means finding a reasonable bet becomes harder as you have to factor in the twists and turns of legal shenannigans
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 5,615
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Wasn't planning to! But please note, have my own sources of info on this topic.
    And the democracy index I linked is pretty widely respected and probably has a better oversight than a partisan shill.

    How can you call out the uk when things like this happen

    "The blend of federal agents -- drawn from the CBP, US Marshals Service, and ICE -- rolled onto the streets in unmarked vehicles. Out of these vehicles sprang agents dressed like soldiers, wearing no markings clearly identifying the officers or the agency they represented. Residents were taken off the street to unknown locations for questioning. They were later released and given no paperwork that informed them who had detained them or for what reason."

    And your government tries to defend it in court. When it happens in places like China we denounce that sort of thing.

    source of quote
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200724/14025644974/court-blocks-federal-officers-attacking-arresting-reporters-covering-protests-portland.shtml

    May be a shill - or rather a hack - but yours truly shills/hacks for the DEMOCRATS. It ain't MY government, bub - it's Trumpsky's

    Ah I see like under Obama who I was believe from your side of the fence who when taking office the USA was sitting at rank 20 of the world index of press freedom and during his tenure managed to help that slide to 41 by his actions against press freedoms....those democrats .

    The world press index is compiled by Reporters without borders as no doubt you will want to cast aspersions on their credibility
    Look at the specific points I made. Which are based on personal experience NOT surfing the web.
    Your points were its happening under a Trump regime and gerrymandering and voter supression wasn't so bad.

    My points were backed by research by international groups who collate data and summarise it into an indexed measure, internation groups with good reputations.

    Your points are based on personal anecdote and come from a known partisan source.
    You are almost as big a liar as Trumpsky. Certainly a truth twister.

    Go soak yer fool head.
    Aw diddums did I hit a nerve. I wasn't saying either side was worse than the other both democrats and republicans get up to the same thing and I fully expect the US to slide further down both indexes no matter who wins.

    All electing Trump did was possibly accelerate the decline. My only interest in the us election is for betting possibilities and sadly as your electoral system grows ever more corrupt it means finding a reasonable bet becomes harder as you have to factor in the twists and turns of legal shenannigans
    oh and as to liar....well anyone is free to go check up what I said as they are publiclly available. No one can check your anecdotes
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,816
    edited July 2020
    Charles said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    The stories I'm hearing about this election and Trump aren't from PB they are from various american newspapers and columnists.
    My wife’s observation action last night was that she is surprised by the number of people she meets that talk positively about Trump. She’s worrying she might have to vote Democrat to make up for it.

    (I saw 2 people in MAGA face masks yesterday...)
    You mean if it wasn't for that she would vote for Trump?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Wasn't planning to! But please note, have my own sources of info on this topic.
    And the democracy index I linked is pretty widely respected and probably has a better oversight than a partisan shill.

    How can you call out the uk when things like this happen

    "The blend of federal agents -- drawn from the CBP, US Marshals Service, and ICE -- rolled onto the streets in unmarked vehicles. Out of these vehicles sprang agents dressed like soldiers, wearing no markings clearly identifying the officers or the agency they represented. Residents were taken off the street to unknown locations for questioning. They were later released and given no paperwork that informed them who had detained them or for what reason."

    And your government tries to defend it in court. When it happens in places like China we denounce that sort of thing.

    source of quote
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200724/14025644974/court-blocks-federal-officers-attacking-arresting-reporters-covering-protests-portland.shtml

    May be a shill - or rather a hack - but yours truly shills/hacks for the DEMOCRATS. It ain't MY government, bub - it's Trumpsky's

    Ah I see like under Obama who I was believe from your side of the fence who when taking office the USA was sitting at rank 20 of the world index of press freedom and during his tenure managed to help that slide to 41 by his actions against press freedoms....those democrats .

    The world press index is compiled by Reporters without borders as no doubt you will want to cast aspersions on their credibility
    Look at the specific points I made. Which are based on personal experience NOT surfing the web.
    Your points were its happening under a Trump regime and gerrymandering and voter supression wasn't so bad.

    My points were backed by research by international groups who collate data and summarise it into an indexed measure, internation groups with good reputations.

    Your points are based on personal anecdote and come from a known partisan source.
    You are almost as big a liar as Trumpsky. Certainly a truth twister.

    Go soak yer fool head.
    Aw diddums did I hit a nerve. I wasn't saying either side was worse than the other both democrats and republicans get up to the same thing and I fully expect the US to slide further down both indexes no matter who wins.

    All electing Trump did was possibly accelerate the decline. My only interest in the us election is for betting possibilities and sadly as your electoral system grows ever more corrupt it means finding a reasonable bet becomes harder as you have to factor in the twists and turns of legal shenannigans
    oh and as to liar....well anyone is free to go check up what I said as they are publiclly available. No one can check your anecdotes
    IF willful imputation of false motive is lying, then you are guilty. Unless I'm wrong about "willful" part, you could just be ignorant. Though both are possible.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    CatMan said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    The stories I'm hearing about this election and Trump aren't from PB they are from various american newspapers and columnists.
    My wife’s observation action last night was that she is surprised by the number of people she meets that talk positively about Trump. She’s worrying she might have to vote Democrat to make up for it.

    (I saw 2 people in MAGA face masks yesterday...)
    You mean if it wasn't for that she would have voted for Trump?
    No. Last time she voted GOP with the exception of Gary Johnson for President

    Her comment was that although she’s pretty conservative (certainly by U.K. standards) she feels absorbed by her party (“which has gone off with the crazies”) but she also feels that the Democrats have gone to the extremes as well
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,822
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 5,615

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    eek said:

    As a *first* point, though, whether or not BIden wins, despite his shortcomings, will make an enormous difference to the future health and well-being of American democracy.

    Only if the size of Biden's win is large enough that Trump's attempts to cast doubt on the result fail.

    It's possible that a close Biden win may actually make things worse than a clear cut Trump victory...
    NO - realize many PBers would like to see US democracy collapse into a pile of ruble, but IF 2000 couldn't do it, 2020 won't either.
    I suspect most already think US democracy has been more notable for its abscence over the years when you consider all the voter suppression and gerry mandering that goes on.
    US vote suppression is a problem BUT is also WAY overblown, often for political reasons but mostly due to Democratic distrust following 2000. For example, turns out lot of "suppression" occurs in jurisdictions where voting is controlled by & large by Democrats.

    As for gerrymandering, well, UK's version is more decorous, perhaps, but not non-political or non-partisan, not by a long shot.

    Re: gerrymandering, note that WA State decades ago adopted a Redistrict Commission system, to take the process out of the direct control of the legislature and thus whomever controlled it.

    Under WA state law, Redistricting Commission is created after every census, with one voting member from each legislative caucus (state house & senate Dems & Reps) with non-voting chair. Result is incumbent protection, with a handful of legislative & congressional districts contested, rest safe for one party or the other.

    Of course over time demographic, economic, political, electoral trends will re-shape this status quo. BUT the redistricting process itself is still controlled - albeit indirectly - by the legislature, but by leader of both parties in (more or less) concert.
    Don't just take my opinion for it
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
    Wasn't planning to! But please note, have my own sources of info on this topic.
    And the democracy index I linked is pretty widely respected and probably has a better oversight than a partisan shill.

    How can you call out the uk when things like this happen

    "The blend of federal agents -- drawn from the CBP, US Marshals Service, and ICE -- rolled onto the streets in unmarked vehicles. Out of these vehicles sprang agents dressed like soldiers, wearing no markings clearly identifying the officers or the agency they represented. Residents were taken off the street to unknown locations for questioning. They were later released and given no paperwork that informed them who had detained them or for what reason."

    And your government tries to defend it in court. When it happens in places like China we denounce that sort of thing.

    source of quote
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200724/14025644974/court-blocks-federal-officers-attacking-arresting-reporters-covering-protests-portland.shtml

    May be a shill - or rather a hack - but yours truly shills/hacks for the DEMOCRATS. It ain't MY government, bub - it's Trumpsky's

    Ah I see like under Obama who I was believe from your side of the fence who when taking office the USA was sitting at rank 20 of the world index of press freedom and during his tenure managed to help that slide to 41 by his actions against press freedoms....those democrats .

    The world press index is compiled by Reporters without borders as no doubt you will want to cast aspersions on their credibility
    Look at the specific points I made. Which are based on personal experience NOT surfing the web.
    Your points were its happening under a Trump regime and gerrymandering and voter supression wasn't so bad.

    My points were backed by research by international groups who collate data and summarise it into an indexed measure, internation groups with good reputations.

    Your points are based on personal anecdote and come from a known partisan source.
    You are almost as big a liar as Trumpsky. Certainly a truth twister.

    Go soak yer fool head.
    Aw diddums did I hit a nerve. I wasn't saying either side was worse than the other both democrats and republicans get up to the same thing and I fully expect the US to slide further down both indexes no matter who wins.

    All electing Trump did was possibly accelerate the decline. My only interest in the us election is for betting possibilities and sadly as your electoral system grows ever more corrupt it means finding a reasonable bet becomes harder as you have to factor in the twists and turns of legal shenannigans
    oh and as to liar....well anyone is free to go check up what I said as they are publiclly available. No one can check your anecdotes
    IF willful imputation of false motive is lying, then you are guilty. Unless I'm wrong about "willful" part, you could just be ignorant. Though both are possible.
    And what false motive is that? I stated the fact that you are ranked as a flawed democracy. I gave you a source to look it up. I didn't give a motive wilful or other it was merely a reply to your statement that pb'ers wanting us democracy to turn to rubble and it was a simple statement of the fact that I think you already are.

    Again no motive implied or given. It's hardly my fault you don't like the fact that I think that or can point to international observers that agree with the view and label you a flawed democracy.

    Perhaps if Biden wins he will stop all the voter repression and political interference in the drawing of boundaries by all sides however I doubt it. What president of any colour rosette ever has
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,675
    I’m probably being stupid but is today’s groundbreaking Stonehenge discovery based on analysis of a recently retrieved “60 year old” sample from the core of one of the Stonehenge stones? If so, why didn’t they just take a more recent sample and test it? Are the stones too precious to be sampled and analysed?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,107
    stjohn said:

    I’m probably being stupid but is today’s groundbreaking Stonehenge discovery based on analysis of a recently retrieved “60 year old” sample from the core of one of the Stonehenge stones? If so, why didn’t they just take a more recent sample and test it? Are the stones too precious to be sampled and analysed?

    Why get a more recent one? The stones are thousands of years old, waiting 60 years isn't going to change much,
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    NYT - July 29 - We Lost the Battle for the Republican Party’s Soul Long Ago

    Only fear will motivate the party to change — the cold fear only defeat can bring.
    By Stuart Stevens

    . . .

    I spent decades working to elect Republicans, including Mr. Romney and four other presidential candidates, and I am here to bear reluctant witness that Mr. Trump didn’t hijack the Republican Party. He is the logical conclusion of what the party became over the past 50 or so years, a natural product of the seeds of race-baiting, self-deception and anger that now dominate it. Hold Donald Trump up to a mirror and that bulging, scowling orange face is today’s Republican Party.

    . . .

    This election should signal a day of reckoning for the party and all who claim it as a political identity. Will it? I’ve given up hope that there are any lines of decency or normalcy that once crossed would move Republican leaders to act as if they took their oath of office more seriously than their allegiance to party. Only fear will motivate the party to change — the cold fear only defeat can bring.

    That defeat is looming. Will it bring desperately needed change to the Republican Party? I’d like to say I’m hopeful. But that would be a lie and there have been too many lies for too long.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,675
    edited July 2020
    RobD said:

    stjohn said:

    I’m probably being stupid but is today’s groundbreaking Stonehenge discovery based on analysis of a recently retrieved “60 year old” sample from the core of one of the Stonehenge stones? If so, why didn’t they just take a more recent sample and test it? Are the stones too precious to be sampled and analysed?

    Why get a more recent one? The stones are thousands of years old, waiting 60 years isn't going to change much,
    Yes, but did they know they were going to get the old sample to test? It doesn’t sound like they did. If not, why not just take a chip off the old block? Or the core of the old block?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    Whatever you think of Harris, this is a BS criticism.

    https://twitter.com/schwartzbCNBC/status/1288561956350300166

  • Nigelb said:

    Whatever you think of Harris, this is a BS criticism.

    https://twitter.com/schwartzbCNBC/status/1288561956350300166

    Isn't that what Biden has done lol
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,822
    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    In addition to world-famous African American gospel music, there is also a White American gospel tradition that is linked to the Black tradition, but rather tenuously.

    Elvis was something of a cross-over here as elsewhere. As with blues, was almost de rigueur for county music stars to put out at least one gospel record.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    Up in British Columbia there are number of traditional Celtic musicians whose fans include number of transplanted Caledonians, mostly of a certain age and often wearing the kilt, whether they've got the legs for it or not.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 43,306
    Brazil’s hit a new daily record for new cases and 1500 deaths so far today. India’s also broken the 50k cases per day barrier.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Well, Éamon de Valera was Irish enough for the Irish, so reckon tud is Scottish enough for the Scots.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    Nigelb said:

    Whatever you think of Harris, this is a BS criticism.

    https://twitter.com/schwartzbCNBC/status/1288561956350300166

    Similar to the line that, since KH had the gall to go after Uncle Joe at that debate, she must be persona non grata.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    Brazil’s hit a new daily record for new cases and 1500 deaths so far today. India’s also broken the 50k cases per day barrier.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    It's really grim. And it is very hard not to be pessimistic. We are set for one or two terrible years. Like: epochally terrible. Generationally terrible. 1930s terrible.

    I hope I am wrong.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,822
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    Er, ooh, let me think. Ah yes. Scot Nats?

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17876067.ancient-scottish-kingdoms-still-genes-according-dna-analysis/

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    Believe the genetics of the Royal Family may be problematic from more than one perspective - even discounting rumors such as the 'baby in the warming pan" (1688) which had of course special salience for Scotland.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    stjohn said:

    RobD said:

    stjohn said:

    I’m probably being stupid but is today’s groundbreaking Stonehenge discovery based on analysis of a recently retrieved “60 year old” sample from the core of one of the Stonehenge stones? If so, why didn’t they just take a more recent sample and test it? Are the stones too precious to be sampled and analysed?

    Why get a more recent one? The stones are thousands of years old, waiting 60 years isn't going to change much,
    Yes, but did they know they were going to get the old sample to test? It doesn’t sound like they did. If not, why not just take a chip off the old block? Or the core of the old block?
    It was a destructive test.

    You don’t break something previous to find out what it’s made of
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,822
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    Er, ooh, let me think. Ah yes. Scot Nats?

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17876067.ancient-scottish-kingdoms-still-genes-according-dna-analysis/

    Ok, so fruitcakes, loonies, the Royal Family and researchers from the University of Edinburgh and Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland.

    Is this where you tell me that you're descended from Wotan?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    edited July 2020

    Nigelb said:

    Whatever you think of Harris, this is a BS criticism.

    https://twitter.com/schwartzbCNBC/status/1288561956350300166

    Isn't that what Biden has done lol
    To be fair, it’s a line about women you’d have gotten away with back when Biden first ran for the Democratic nomination...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    ‘English, genetically’ in a pretty weird idea even for those who might.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,435

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Well, Éamon de Valera was Irish enough for the Irish, so reckon tud is Scottish enough for the Scots.
    Lord Haw Haw was born in the USA, raised in Ireland and English enough for the Germans....

    That should set a benchmark for Cornish Scots, English Welshmen etc....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    stjohn said:

    RobD said:

    stjohn said:

    I’m probably being stupid but is today’s groundbreaking Stonehenge discovery based on analysis of a recently retrieved “60 year old” sample from the core of one of the Stonehenge stones? If so, why didn’t they just take a more recent sample and test it? Are the stones too precious to be sampled and analysed?

    Why get a more recent one? The stones are thousands of years old, waiting 60 years isn't going to change much,
    Yes, but did they know they were going to get the old sample to test? It doesn’t sound like they did. If not, why not just take a chip off the old block? Or the core of the old block?
    I expect that they would not wish to damage the stones further by taking any core samples in this day and age even if it meant the mystery was not solved. But since people in the 50s had already done so, happily they could.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491
    Nigelb said:

    Whatever you think of Harris, this is a BS criticism.

    https://twitter.com/schwartzbCNBC/status/1288561956350300166

    It's a bit sad that a lot of the time VPs seem to be regarded as useless once any electoral service is offered, or untrustworthy as they want the top gig, rather than a partnership, albeit not one of equals.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,435
    edited July 2020
    LadyG said:

    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

    Indeed. It is here for keeps like influenza. And we shall learn to live with it like influenza...

    But a lot of people will die whilst we figure out the treatments that work
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Whatever you think of Harris, this is a BS criticism.

    https://twitter.com/schwartzbCNBC/status/1288561956350300166

    It's a bit sad that a lot of the time VPs seem to be regarded as useless once any electoral service is offered, or untrustworthy as they want the top gig, rather than a partnership, albeit not one of equals.
    One of Biden's strengths is that it was NOT that way with him and Obama. And he certainly gives impression of wanting a similar deal with him and Ms X.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,393
    LadyG said:

    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

    The death rate seems to be going down. Maybe the virus is becoming less dangerous over time.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Nigelb said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    ‘English, genetically’ in a pretty weird idea even for those who might.
    It's really not.

    There are noticeable and measurable genetic differences between people who originate in the British Isles (let's call them "English") and people who originate in, say, France, Finland, Portugal or Bulgaria (or beyond, of course).

    https://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/

    https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/306-the-genetic-map-of-europe

    Does this matter? Depends. But if you fiercely want to draw a border down the island of Britain between people who are genetically basically identical, a border based on some ancient royal insult dating back to 850AD or whenever, then yes I would say it is certainly AS relevant as anything else, given that we speak the same language, have the same governance, and so on.

    Scot Nats are happy to use genetic differences, as a concept, when they favour the idea of separatism, and are eager to ignore the concept with they disfavour. But they should not get to pick and choose their science.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

    The death rate seems to be going down. Maybe the virus is becoming less dangerous over time.
    Our medicine is probably getting better.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

    The death rate seems to be going down. Maybe the virus is becoming less dangerous over time.
    Improved medicine, in places. But the virus evolves, also.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Whatever you think of Harris, this is a BS criticism.

    https://twitter.com/schwartzbCNBC/status/1288561956350300166

    It's a bit sad that a lot of the time VPs seem to be regarded as useless once any electoral service is offered, or untrustworthy as they want the top gig, rather than a partnership, albeit not one of equals.
    One of Biden's strengths is that it was NOT that way with him and Obama. And he certainly gives impression of wanting a similar deal with him and Ms X.
    Nor to be fair was it that way with Cheney either.
  • Increasing isolation period, doesn't sound like a vote of confidence, I think the Government data is dreadful
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Well, Éamon de Valera was Irish enough for the Irish, so reckon tud is Scottish enough for the Scots.
    Lord Haw Haw was born in the USA, raised in Ireland and English enough for the Germans....

    That should set a benchmark for Cornish Scots, English Welshmen etc....
    Would note in this context that Adolf Hitler's nephew, William Patrick Hitler, a British subject who served in US Navy during WWII & became US citizen.

    Also such intereting "Brits" as Sir Carton de Wiart (born a Belgian) and HRH Prince Philip (born a Greek).

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Whatever you think of Harris, this is a BS criticism.

    https://twitter.com/schwartzbCNBC/status/1288561956350300166

    It's a bit sad that a lot of the time VPs seem to be regarded as useless once any electoral service is offered, or untrustworthy as they want the top gig, rather than a partnership, albeit not one of equals.
    One of Biden's strengths is that it was NOT that way with him and Obama. And he certainly gives impression of wanting a similar deal with him and Ms X.
    Nor to be fair was it that way with Cheney either.
    Difference was Dick was dominate in Cheney-Bush administration. BIG difference.
  • Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

    The death rate seems to be going down. Maybe the virus is becoming less dangerous over time.
    Our medicine is probably getting better.
    Probably both. We know that viruses that are too deadly tend to burn out because they kill their hosts faster than the hosts can pass on the infection.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Well, Éamon de Valera was Irish enough for the Irish, so reckon tud is Scottish enough for the Scots.
    Lord Haw Haw was born in the USA, raised in Ireland and English enough for the Germans....

    That should set a benchmark for Cornish Scots, English Welshmen etc....
    Would note in this context that Adolf Hitler's nephew, William Patrick Hitler, a British subject who served in US Navy during WWII & became US citizen.

    Also such intereting "Brits" as Sir Carton de Wiart (born a Belgian) and HRH Prince Philip (born a Greek).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carton_de_Wiart

    Sounds like a very interesting chap:

    He served in the Boer War, First World War, and Second World War. He was shot in the face, head, stomach, ankle, leg, hip, and ear; was blinded in his left eye; survived two plane crashes; tunnelled out of a prisoner-of-war camp; and tore off his own fingers when a doctor refused to amputate them. Describing his experiences in the First World War, he wrote, "Frankly I had enjoyed the war.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited July 2020

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Whatever you think of Harris, this is a BS criticism.

    https://twitter.com/schwartzbCNBC/status/1288561956350300166

    It's a bit sad that a lot of the time VPs seem to be regarded as useless once any electoral service is offered, or untrustworthy as they want the top gig, rather than a partnership, albeit not one of equals.
    One of Biden's strengths is that it was NOT that way with him and Obama. And he certainly gives impression of wanting a similar deal with him and Ms X.
    Nor to be fair was it that way with Cheney either.
    Difference was Dick was dominate in Cheney-Bush administration. BIG difference.
    Ah yes Dick "warmonger" Cheney
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,435

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

    The death rate seems to be going down. Maybe the virus is becoming less dangerous over time.
    Our medicine is probably getting better.
    It is not unusual for viruses to get less virulent. Basically, a viral strain that does not kill its host gets to replicate better and spread further. The more virulent a virus is, the less likely it is to spread.

    Evolution favours a less virulent strain and for a virus, a dozen generations can happen in a few days.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Did you mean to quote the entire 95 minute debate and not just a clip?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,822
    Isn't he about 12? That's an awful wasteland of dull tv that he's expecting for the rest of the century.

    https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/status/1288597341889536001?s=20
  • kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Well, Éamon de Valera was Irish enough for the Irish, so reckon tud is Scottish enough for the Scots.
    Lord Haw Haw was born in the USA, raised in Ireland and English enough for the Germans....

    That should set a benchmark for Cornish Scots, English Welshmen etc....
    Would note in this context that Adolf Hitler's nephew, William Patrick Hitler, a British subject who served in US Navy during WWII & became US citizen.

    Also such intereting "Brits" as Sir Carton de Wiart (born a Belgian) and HRH Prince Philip (born a Greek).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carton_de_Wiart

    Sounds like a very interesting chap:

    He served in the Boer War, First World War, and Second World War. He was shot in the face, head, stomach, ankle, leg, hip, and ear; was blinded in his left eye; survived two plane crashes; tunnelled out of a prisoner-of-war camp; and tore off his own fingers when a doctor refused to amputate them. Describing his experiences in the First World War, he wrote, "Frankly I had enjoyed the war.
    Per Wiki: " In male company he was "a delightful character and must hold the world record for bad language." Marvellous.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

    The death rate seems to be going down. Maybe the virus is becoming less dangerous over time.
    Our medicine is probably getting better.
    It is not unusual for viruses to get less virulent. Basically, a viral strain that does not kill its host gets to replicate better and spread further. The more virulent a virus is, the less likely it is to spread.

    Evolution favours a less virulent strain and for a virus, a dozen generations can happen in a few days.
    A dozen generations surely happens in a few months? 3 days to a week for one generation?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,107

    Increasing isolation period, doesn't sound like a vote of confidence, I think the Government data is dreadful

    Isn't it bringing it into line with WHO recommendations?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082

    kle4 said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Well, Éamon de Valera was Irish enough for the Irish, so reckon tud is Scottish enough for the Scots.
    Lord Haw Haw was born in the USA, raised in Ireland and English enough for the Germans....

    That should set a benchmark for Cornish Scots, English Welshmen etc....
    Would note in this context that Adolf Hitler's nephew, William Patrick Hitler, a British subject who served in US Navy during WWII & became US citizen.

    Also such intereting "Brits" as Sir Carton de Wiart (born a Belgian) and HRH Prince Philip (born a Greek).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carton_de_Wiart

    Sounds like a very interesting chap:

    He served in the Boer War, First World War, and Second World War. He was shot in the face, head, stomach, ankle, leg, hip, and ear; was blinded in his left eye; survived two plane crashes; tunnelled out of a prisoner-of-war camp; and tore off his own fingers when a doctor refused to amputate them. Describing his experiences in the First World War, he wrote, "Frankly I had enjoyed the war.
    Per Wiki: " In male company he was "a delightful character and must hold the world record for bad language." Marvellous.
    Youtube - World War Two channel - Carton De Wiart: A Man for All Seasons

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=wfWf3FPSCcs
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    LadyG said:

    Nigelb said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    ‘English, genetically’ in a pretty weird idea even for those who might.
    It's really not.

    There are noticeable and measurable genetic differences between people who originate in the British Isles (let's call them "English") and people who originate in, say, France, Finland, Portugal or Bulgaria (or beyond, of course).

    https://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/

    https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/306-the-genetic-map-of-europe

    Does this matter? Depends. But if you fiercely want to draw a border down the island of Britain between people who are genetically basically identical, a border based on some ancient royal insult dating back to 850AD or whenever, then yes I would say it is certainly AS relevant as anything else, given that we speak the same language, have the same governance, and so on.

    Scot Nats are happy to use genetic differences, as a concept, when they favour the idea of separatism, and are eager to ignore the concept with they disfavour. But they should not get to pick and choose their science.
    What jumped out at me was how few Aryans there are in Germany vs Poland. Is that because Aryans were concentrated in Prussia?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 28,141

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

    The death rate seems to be going down. Maybe the virus is becoming less dangerous over time.
    Our medicine is probably getting better.
    It is not unusual for viruses to get less virulent. Basically, a viral strain that does not kill its host gets to replicate better and spread further. The more virulent a virus is, the less likely it is to spread.

    Evolution favours a less virulent strain and for a virus, a dozen generations can happen in a few days.
    I thought a few days ago they announced that the latest strain was more virulent but less deadly. Hence more cases but without a great increase in death rates.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    edited July 2020
    Charles said:

    LadyG said:

    Nigelb said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    ‘English, genetically’ in a pretty weird idea even for those who might.
    It's really not.

    There are noticeable and measurable genetic differences between people who originate in the British Isles (let's call them "English") and people who originate in, say, France, Finland, Portugal or Bulgaria (or beyond, of course).

    https://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/

    https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/306-the-genetic-map-of-europe

    Does this matter? Depends. But if you fiercely want to draw a border down the island of Britain between people who are genetically basically identical, a border based on some ancient royal insult dating back to 850AD or whenever, then yes I would say it is certainly AS relevant as anything else, given that we speak the same language, have the same governance, and so on.

    Scot Nats are happy to use genetic differences, as a concept, when they favour the idea of separatism, and are eager to ignore the concept with they disfavour. But they should not get to pick and choose their science.
    What jumped out at me was how few Aryans there are in Germany vs Poland. Is that because Aryans were concentrated in Prussia?
    There is a (relatively) close linguistic link (apparently) between Sanskrit and Lithuanian, which has (IIRC) sparked some cultural interchange between Lithuania and India.

    And there are dynastic, historic and (no doubt) genetic links between Lithuania and Poland.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,230

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

    The death rate seems to be going down. Maybe the virus is becoming less dangerous over time.
    Our medicine is probably getting better.
    It is not unusual for viruses to get less virulent. Basically, a viral strain that does not kill its host gets to replicate better and spread further. The more virulent a virus is, the less likely it is to spread.

    Evolution favours a less virulent strain and for a virus, a dozen generations can happen in a few days.
    I thought a few days ago they announced that the latest strain was more virulent but less deadly. Hence more cases but without a great increase in death rates.
    With the addition that we are learning how best to treat it. "Less deadly" is difficult to unentangle from early oxygen, proning and better and earlier testing. And more awareness of at risk of serious effects groups.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    LadyG said:

    Nigelb said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    ‘English, genetically’ in a pretty weird idea even for those who might.
    It's really not.

    There are noticeable and measurable genetic differences between people who originate in the British Isles (let's call them "English") and people who originate in, say, France, Finland, Portugal or Bulgaria (or beyond, of course).

    https://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/

    https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/306-the-genetic-map-of-europe

    Does this matter? Depends. But if you fiercely want to draw a border down the island of Britain between people who are genetically basically identical, a border based on some ancient royal insult dating back to 850AD or whenever, then yes I would say it is certainly AS relevant as anything else, given that we speak the same language, have the same governance, and so on.

    Scot Nats are happy to use genetic differences, as a concept, when they favour the idea of separatism, and are eager to ignore the concept with they disfavour. But they should not get to pick and choose their science.
    What jumped out at me was how few Aryans there are in Germany vs Poland. Is that because Aryans were concentrated in Prussia?
    There is a (relatively) close linguistic link (apparently) between Sanskrit and Lithuanian, which has (IIRC) sparked some cultural interchange between Lithuania and India.

    And there are dynastic, historic and (no doubt) genetic links between Lithuania and Poland.
    I thought it was Finnish and Sanskrit?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    LadyG said:

    Nigelb said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    ‘English, genetically’ in a pretty weird idea even for those who might.
    It's really not.

    There are noticeable and measurable genetic differences between people who originate in the British Isles (let's call them "English") and people who originate in, say, France, Finland, Portugal or Bulgaria (or beyond, of course).

    https://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/

    https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/306-the-genetic-map-of-europe

    Does this matter? Depends. But if you fiercely want to draw a border down the island of Britain between people who are genetically basically identical, a border based on some ancient royal insult dating back to 850AD or whenever, then yes I would say it is certainly AS relevant as anything else, given that we speak the same language, have the same governance, and so on.

    Scot Nats are happy to use genetic differences, as a concept, when they favour the idea of separatism, and are eager to ignore the concept with they disfavour. But they should not get to pick and choose their science.
    What jumped out at me was how few Aryans there are in Germany vs Poland. Is that because Aryans were concentrated in Prussia?
    There is a (relatively) close linguistic link (apparently) between Sanskrit and Lithuanian, which has (IIRC) sparked some cultural interchange between Lithuania and India.

    And there are dynastic, historic and (no doubt) genetic links between Lithuania and Poland.
    I thought it was Finnish and Sanskrit?
    Finnish (like Hungarian) is NOT Indo-European - Sanskrit is, and so is Lithuanian.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,435

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

    The death rate seems to be going down. Maybe the virus is becoming less dangerous over time.
    Our medicine is probably getting better.
    It is not unusual for viruses to get less virulent. Basically, a viral strain that does not kill its host gets to replicate better and spread further. The more virulent a virus is, the less likely it is to spread.

    Evolution favours a less virulent strain and for a virus, a dozen generations can happen in a few days.
    I thought a few days ago they announced that the latest strain was more virulent but less deadly. Hence more cases but without a great increase in death rates.
    I think the wording is an issue - I was using "virulent" in the sense of killing off the host. I think your usage is "ability to spread". "... more virulent but less deadly... " would be a less lethal virus. The Common Cold is extremely passable, but nobody dies of it - would it count as "virulent"?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    50,000 new cases in India

    70,000 in Brazil, so far

    Meanwhile:

    2,000 in Spain

    1,400 in France

    800 in Germany

    This fucker will not go away

    The death rate seems to be going down. Maybe the virus is becoming less dangerous over time.
    Our medicine is probably getting better.
    It is not unusual for viruses to get less virulent. Basically, a viral strain that does not kill its host gets to replicate better and spread further. The more virulent a virus is, the less likely it is to spread.

    Evolution favours a less virulent strain and for a virus, a dozen generations can happen in a few days.
    I thought a few days ago they announced that the latest strain was more virulent but less deadly. Hence more cases but without a great increase in death rates.
    I think the wording is an issue - I was using "virulent" in the sense of killing off the host. I think your usage is "ability to spread". "... more virulent but less deadly... " would be a less lethal virus. The Common Cold is extremely passable, but nobody dies of it - would it count as "virulent"?
    "More virulent, less deadly" reminds me of old Miller beer ads "More taste, less filling"
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,230
    HYUFD said:
    Old man yells at cloud.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    edited July 2020
    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Old man yells at cloud.
    With respect to suburban voters, this is actually WAY smarter than 95% of what he's been doing the duration of his term.

    However, like his initial tax cuts, will turn out to deliver less than it suggests, and virtually nothing by November 4.

    Reckon this is being touted at insistence of congressional GOP, especially House members fighting for their political lives in suburban districts.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 25,230

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Old man yells at cloud.
    With respect to suburban voters, this is actually WAY smarter than 95% of what he's been doing the duration of his term.

    However, like his initial tax cuts, will turn out to deliver less than it suggests, and virtually nothing by November 4.

    Reckon this is being touted at insistence of congressional GOP, especially House members fighting for their political lives in suburban districts.
    Indeed. Trying to run as an insurgent. Only works with a radical change at the top. C.f. Boris.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    WASHINGTON STATE AUGUST 2020 PRIMARY

    As of 5pm Wednesday, July 29 statewide ballot returns for August 4 primary:

    > 778k ballots returned (16.9% of active reg)
    > above just over 1/3 of likely total turnout
    > returns for King County 15% and rest of Central Puget Sound; rest of state 19%
    > typical for rural & small town areas to vote quicker than urban Western WA.
    > age profile also shows typical pattern, namely older voters 60+ are disproportionate share of early returns; same for final primary turnout, but not by quite as much.

    NOT a lot of hot races on August 2020 WA Primary ballot
    > no US Senate race
    > incumbent Democratic Gov. Jay Inslee prohibitive favorite for 3rd term
    > likely second in Top Two gubernatorial primary: ant-tax gadfly Tim Eyeman, possibly the most hated man in WA but way more name ID than any of the others in gaggle of Republicans running.
    > for US House, only two races of any note
    ~~ in CD03, repeat of 2018 between Republican incumbent Jaime Herrera Beutler and Democratic challenger; both will make it through to November BUT still interesting to see how many votes each gets.
    ~~ in CD10, open seat race caused by retirement of incumbent Democrat Denny Heck (who is now running for Lieutenant Governor) with three main candidates, all Democrats: State Rep. Beth Doglio, former state Rep. Kristin Reeves; and former Tacoma mayor Marilyn Strickland; note that both Reeves & Strickland are from Pierce Co (about half the district) while Doglio is from Thurston Co (ditto). There are also a bunch of Republicans, but none has any name ID or money, and will likely just chop up the GOP vote in this Democratic-leaning District. Thus most likely August outcome is two Dems winning the Top Two primary, probably Doglio and Strickland.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:
    Old man yells at cloud.
    With respect to suburban voters, this is actually WAY smarter than 95% of what he's been doing the duration of his term.

    However, like his initial tax cuts, will turn out to deliver less than it suggests, and virtually nothing by November 4.

    Reckon this is being touted at insistence of congressional GOP, especially House members fighting for their political lives in suburban districts.
    Indeed. Trying to run as an insurgent. Only works with a radical change at the top. C.f. Boris.
    Would have helped MUCH more IF he'd done it three years ago. Like Nixon did with similar stuff - give it enough time to work its electoral magic.

    Intead, comes off as a cheap political trick, like the County paving your road just before Election Day, when you've been choking on dust for years.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 11,082
    BTW Trumpsky has nominated some Fox news retired US Army yahoo as his Ambassador to Germany. Mostly I think to show his displeasure with Merkel for putting the kibosh on his planned "summit" which he was hoping would give him some good press - just like Nixon used to do.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,927
    To be fair, he has got a point. Of course, historically we have not wanted Germany increasing its defence spending, there having been one or two unfortunate precedents.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,927
    Charles said:

    LadyG said:

    Nigelb said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    ‘English, genetically’ in a pretty weird idea even for those who might.
    It's really not.

    There are noticeable and measurable genetic differences between people who originate in the British Isles (let's call them "English") and people who originate in, say, France, Finland, Portugal or Bulgaria (or beyond, of course).

    https://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/

    https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/306-the-genetic-map-of-europe

    Does this matter? Depends. But if you fiercely want to draw a border down the island of Britain between people who are genetically basically identical, a border based on some ancient royal insult dating back to 850AD or whenever, then yes I would say it is certainly AS relevant as anything else, given that we speak the same language, have the same governance, and so on.

    Scot Nats are happy to use genetic differences, as a concept, when they favour the idea of separatism, and are eager to ignore the concept with they disfavour. But they should not get to pick and choose their science.
    What jumped out at me was how few Aryans there are in Germany vs Poland. Is that because Aryans were concentrated in Prussia?
    Probably because Hitler misused the term. The Russians printed this handy guide:
    https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/28643
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,927
    USA Dem VP slot -- Elizabeth Warren now third best

    Current Betfair prices (we need to be a bit careful because I think some layers, like some proper bookmakers, take their money off the table overnight):

    Kamala Harris: 1.82
    Susan Rice: 4.9
    Elizabeth Warren: 14.5
    Karen Bass: 15
    Tammy Duckworth: 19
    Gretchen Whitmer: 34
    Val Demings: 38
    Michelle Obama: 42
    Hillary Clinton: 110
    Stacey Abrams: 120
    Michelle Lujan Grisham: 140
    Keisha Lance Bottoms: 170

    Warren has moved up past Bass and Duckworth who have lengthened. Both Harris and Rice have drifted slightly since their peaks yesterday.

    They think it's all over -- the verdict of the Betfair jury is that Abrams, Grisham and Bottoms are no longer viable candidates.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 3,018
    Charles said:

    LadyG said:

    Nigelb said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    ‘English, genetically’ in a pretty weird idea even for those who might.
    It's really not.

    There are noticeable and measurable genetic differences between people who originate in the British Isles (let's call them "English") and people who originate in, say, France, Finland, Portugal or Bulgaria (or beyond, of course).

    https://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/

    https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/306-the-genetic-map-of-europe

    Does this matter? Depends. But if you fiercely want to draw a border down the island of Britain between people who are genetically basically identical, a border based on some ancient royal insult dating back to 850AD or whenever, then yes I would say it is certainly AS relevant as anything else, given that we speak the same language, have the same governance, and so on.

    Scot Nats are happy to use genetic differences, as a concept, when they favour the idea of separatism, and are eager to ignore the concept with they disfavour. But they should not get to pick and choose their science.
    What jumped out at me was how few Aryans there are in Germany vs Poland. Is that because Aryans were concentrated in Prussia?
    What jumps out at me is the bullshit use of the word Aryan. Jeez.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,955
    This has probably been shared already, but there's some more promising news on the Moderna vaccine: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/28/health/coronavirus-moderna-vaccine-monkeys.html

    Basically, it works on monkeys (disclaimer: small sample size). And that's typically a good sign.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kamski said:

    Charles said:

    LadyG said:

    Nigelb said:

    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    LadyG said:

    glw said:

    tlg86 said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/29/exeter-chiefs-will-keep-name-logo-but-ditch-their-mascot-big-chief-rugby-union

    The club’s board met on Wednesday afternoon following a petition from the fans’ pressure group Exeter Chiefs 4 Change which demanded an end to the club’s use of “harmful imagery and branding”, which included a Native American headdress, saying there was no place for it in a predominantly white British environment.

    I don't really follow club rugby, but I'm adopting the Chiefs as my team.

    When does the Haka get cancelled?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2020/jan/23/the-haka-isnt-yours-stop-performing-it

    Are we now saying that we cannot mix cultures at all and we all have to have separate pristine cultures ? Sounds at best a rather miserable policy and at worse something the BNP /Islamic jihadis or Nazis would agree with.
    I like the fact that, in that Guardian article, the journalist didn't ask an actual Maori about who should/shouldn't perform the Haka.
    I've read about this before and as I recall the biggest beef Maori people* had was not that the Haka was done, it is part of New Zealand culture so it's not like the All Blacks are doing something alien, but that it used to be done so badly.

    * Generally speaking, I'm sure there are some people who think that only Maori person should perform it.
    Cultural appropriation, taken to its endpoint, is pretty much the end of sport (and much else, like cuisine, partying, etc). Enjoying and celebrating and incorporating other cultures is the one great undeniable benefit of multiculturalism. It is quintessentially jubiliant.

    This is the opposite. It is a deadening puritanism. It sees sin everywhere.

    It will not last, just as Puritanism did not last, but in the interim it can do terrible damage.

    America is particularly prone to these mad fits of self-hating monasticism. See Prohibition.
    According to the latest research Gospel music originated in the Scottish Hebrides so if cultural appropriation is not allowed African Americans should stop singing it.
    It's a theory that's been around for a while.
    I don't think Hebrideans are much bothered. I attended a concert, Psalm and Soul, in Glasgow a few years ago and saw a few of my dad's pals from Lewis and Harris there. Said hello at the interval after the Lewis Weefree choir had sang, then they buggered off before the US Gospel choir did their stuff.
    Well that would depend on whether you are of Scots Lowland descent (ie basically English) or, much less likely, of Highland Gaelic descent (in which case you might be more covetous of your artistic lineage).

    This is how this works.
    These guys were Gaelic speakers born and bred in Lewis & Harris. They were mildly flattered that the connection had been made, but not much interested in the musical proof. Like many migrated Gaels they just wanted a little slice of home.
    So I presume you are Scots Lowland, ie English, genetically. The narcissism of minor differences.

    The Welsh and Cornish Nats are the same. Most of them are English.

    Lol.
    Who gives a toss about 'genetically' apart from fruitcakes, loonies and the Royal Family?
    ‘English, genetically’ in a pretty weird idea even for those who might.
    It's really not.

    There are noticeable and measurable genetic differences between people who originate in the British Isles (let's call them "English") and people who originate in, say, France, Finland, Portugal or Bulgaria (or beyond, of course).

    https://brilliantmaps.com/the-genetic-map-of-europe/

    https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/306-the-genetic-map-of-europe

    Does this matter? Depends. But if you fiercely want to draw a border down the island of Britain between people who are genetically basically identical, a border based on some ancient royal insult dating back to 850AD or whenever, then yes I would say it is certainly AS relevant as anything else, given that we speak the same language, have the same governance, and so on.

    Scot Nats are happy to use genetic differences, as a concept, when they favour the idea of separatism, and are eager to ignore the concept with they disfavour. But they should not get to pick and choose their science.
    What jumped out at me was how few Aryans there are in Germany vs Poland. Is that because Aryans were concentrated in Prussia?
    What jumps out at me is the bullshit use of the word Aryan. Jeez.
    Possibly. Racial categorisation has never been something I’ve been interested but so never looked at it in detail
  • kamskikamski Posts: 3,018
    Foxy said:
    I don't think moving US troops out of Germany is a big deal, it's been happening for many years. British troops in Germany (which numbered 25,000 as recently as the 90s), have been almost entirely removed.

    I don't think many people believe that Germany currently needs protecting from Russia, or that US troops in Germany are doing that. And with Trump as president who knows which side they would fight on! (joke - or is it? - that's how far things have gone).

    It would certainly make more sense to have them in the Baltic States, for example, if the idea is to restrain Russia.

    Germany should certainly be aiming to stop buying fossil fuels from Russia (or elsewhere). Merkel's failure to decarbonise the economy is totally irresponsible.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,506
    Question: if the “death rates” now had been like this at the start of the outbreak, would the country have taken the measures that it did? And if it does become apparent at some point that the virus has mutated to something more akin in “danger” to flu (or even something like Swine flu in 2010!) how would the Govt go about changing policy to reflect this?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,506
    E
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:
    I don't think moving US troops out of Germany is a big deal, it's been happening for many years. British troops in Germany (which numbered 25,000 as recently as the 90s), have been almost entirely removed.

    I don't think many people believe that Germany currently needs protecting from Russia, or that US troops in Germany are doing that. And with Trump as president who knows which side they would fight on! (joke - or is it? - that's how far things have gone).

    It would certainly make more sense to have them in the Baltic States, for example, if the idea is to restrain Russia.

    Germany should certainly be aiming to stop buying fossil fuels from Russia (or elsewhere). Merkel's failure to decarbonise the economy is totally irresponsible.
    Isn’t this basically down to Fukushima?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 23,986
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    AOC knows how to grill a witness.
    I don’t exactly share her politics, but she is undeniably a very impressive operator:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iCVn_JvOiQ
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,042
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Whatever you think of Harris, this is a BS criticism.

    https://twitter.com/schwartzbCNBC/status/1288561956350300166

    It's a bit sad that a lot of the time VPs seem to be regarded as useless once any electoral service is offered, or untrustworthy as they want the top gig, rather than a partnership, albeit not one of equals.
    And rather more that ‘too ambitious’ in invariably levelled at women candidates. Along with a lot of other stuff...
    https://twitter.com/Susan_Hennessey/status/1288605530697666560
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,506
    alex_ said:

    Question: if the “death rates” now had been like this at the start of the outbreak, would the country have taken the measures that it did? And if it does become apparent at some point that the virus has mutated to something more akin in “danger” to flu (or even something like Swine flu in 2010!) how would the Govt go about changing policy to reflect this?

    Even worse, if the virus also mutates to become more virulent as well as much less harmful, will we find that Govts learn the wrong lesson and take it as evidence that “opening up” is the cause of rapid rises in case numbers, (thinking that death/serious illness will be a lagging indicator) and launch future crackdown, when actually it is nothing to worry about at all.

    And are we looking forward to a future where “extreme lockdowns’ are the first response to emerging pandemics, at enormous economic cost. How would we have managed Swine flu today if we’d had the experience of COVID to guide us?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 3,018
    alex_ said:

    E

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:
    I don't think moving US troops out of Germany is a big deal, it's been happening for many years. British troops in Germany (which numbered 25,000 as recently as the 90s), have been almost entirely removed.

    I don't think many people believe that Germany currently needs protecting from Russia, or that US troops in Germany are doing that. And with Trump as president who knows which side they would fight on! (joke - or is it? - that's how far things have gone).

    It would certainly make more sense to have them in the Baltic States, for example, if the idea is to restrain Russia.

    Germany should certainly be aiming to stop buying fossil fuels from Russia (or elsewhere). Merkel's failure to decarbonise the economy is totally irresponsible.
    Isn’t this basically down to Fukushima?
    Partly. I am not a big fan of nuclear, but closing already running power stations earlier than needed was a stupid decision. We are now burning more dirty coal as a result. It's not as if tsunamis are common in Germany.

    The car lobby is also strong here. The Green Party caused controversy recently by saying one of the first things they will do in government is impose a 130km maximum speed limit, which shouldn't really be controversial at all (except that it is a bit too high!).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,732
    kamski said:

    Foxy said:
    I don't think moving US troops out of Germany is a big deal, it's been happening for many years. British troops in Germany (which numbered 25,000 as recently as the 90s), have been almost entirely removed.

    I don't think many people believe that Germany currently needs protecting from Russia, or that US troops in Germany are doing that. And with Trump as president who knows which side they would fight on! (joke - or is it? - that's how far things have gone).

    It would certainly make more sense to have them in the Baltic States, for example, if the idea is to restrain Russia.

    Germany should certainly be aiming to stop buying fossil fuels from Russia (or elsewhere). Merkel's failure to decarbonise the economy is totally irresponsible.
    Yes, I have no problem myself with American troops being withdrawn. Indeed it is long overdue. The interesting thing is that Trumps former Directof of Communications is accusing Trump of being a Russian agent.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,506
    kamski said:

    alex_ said:

    E

    kamski said:

    Foxy said:
    I don't think moving US troops out of Germany is a big deal, it's been happening for many years. British troops in Germany (which numbered 25,000 as recently as the 90s), have been almost entirely removed.

    I don't think many people believe that Germany currently needs protecting from Russia, or that US troops in Germany are doing that. And with Trump as president who knows which side they would fight on! (joke - or is it? - that's how far things have gone).

    It would certainly make more sense to have them in the Baltic States, for example, if the idea is to restrain Russia.

    Germany should certainly be aiming to stop buying fossil fuels from Russia (or elsewhere). Merkel's failure to decarbonise the economy is totally irresponsible.
    Isn’t this basically down to Fukushima?
    Partly. I am not a big fan of nuclear, but closing already running power stations earlier than needed was a stupid decision. We are now burning more dirty coal as a result. It's not as if tsunamis are common in Germany.

    The car lobby is also strong here. The Green Party caused controversy recently by saying one of the first things they will do in government is impose a 130km maximum speed limit, which shouldn't really be controversial at all (except that it is a bit too high!).
    I’m assuming this is some sort of “thin end of the wedge” argument...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,822
    alex_ said:
    The current BBC documentary on Murdoch suggests that Fox News is still very much his baby. If the new 'independent' line on Trump is coming directly from him, it doesn't look good for Donald (though great for the rest of us).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,732
    alex_ said:

    Question: if the “death rates” now had been like this at the start of the outbreak, would the country have taken the measures that it did? And if it does become apparent at some point that the virus has mutated to something more akin in “danger” to flu (or even something like Swine flu in 2010!) how would the Govt go about changing policy to reflect this?

    Have death rates really dropped that much? The hospitalised mortality rate in Texas is just short of 10% for example. It was 15% in New York at the peak there, so a modest improvement, or possibly just slightly earlier in the course of the disease.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 43,603
    alex_ said:

    alex_ said:

    Question: if the “death rates” now had been like this at the start of the outbreak, would the country have taken the measures that it did? And if it does become apparent at some point that the virus has mutated to something more akin in “danger” to flu (or even something like Swine flu in 2010!) how would the Govt go about changing policy to reflect this?

    Even worse, if the virus also mutates to become more virulent as well as much less harmful, will we find that Govts learn the wrong lesson and take it as evidence that “opening up” is the cause of rapid rises in case numbers, (thinking that death/serious illness will be a lagging indicator) and launch future crackdown, when actually it is nothing to worry about at all.

    And are we looking forward to a future where “extreme lockdowns’ are the first response to emerging pandemics, at enormous economic cost. How would we have managed Swine flu today if we’d had the experience of COVID to guide us?
    At the moment the greater concern would be the apparently profound long term health consequences (although it isn’t clear yet how common such lasting effects are)
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,506
    Foxy said:

    alex_ said:

    Question: if the “death rates” now had been like this at the start of the outbreak, would the country have taken the measures that it did? And if it does become apparent at some point that the virus has mutated to something more akin in “danger” to flu (or even something like Swine flu in 2010!) how would the Govt go about changing policy to reflect this?

    Have death rates really dropped that much? The hospitalised mortality rate in Texas is just short of 10% for example. It was 15% in New York at the peak there, so a modest improvement, or possibly just slightly earlier in the course of the disease.

    “Hospitalised mortality” and “mortality” aren’t the same thing though, are they?
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