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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Johnson’s Tories get their best Opinium voting numbers since b

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited July 2020 in General
imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Johnson’s Tories get their best Opinium voting numbers since before the reports of the Cummings lockdown trip to Barnard Castle

Johnson's Opinium best PM lead down to 2%Johnson 36%Starmer 34%

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    First like Arsenal.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    FPT:

    FWIW, it might be more helpful if polling organisations stopped bothering to do GB surveys and treated Scotland exclusively as a separate polity like Northern Ireland. It would give us a more accurate idea (insofar as the polls can) of what's going on in England and Wales, and since that's most likely all that the British state will consist of in a few years' time anyway they might as well start getting used to it now.

    More regional polling would be nice too.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,564
    edited July 2020
    A reckoning, if any, and justified or not, will be a while coming. Patience is key.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,885
    Touch wood the govt has a grip on Corona right now...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,222
    Scott is not working !!!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    Crossover (of the 50% line) incoming.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,175
    Must be an outlier :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,929
    tlg86 said:

    FPT:

    FWIW, it might be more helpful if polling organisations stopped bothering to do GB surveys and treated Scotland exclusively as a separate polity like Northern Ireland. It would give us a more accurate idea (insofar as the polls can) of what's going on in England and Wales, and since that's most likely all that the British state will consist of in a few years' time anyway they might as well start getting used to it now.

    More regional polling would be nice too.
    There already is regional polling in almost every pollster which includes a separate Scottish breakdown and unlike Northern Ireland the 3 main parties all stand in Scotland
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,929
    As is clear all Starmer has done is regain some Remainers who switched to the LDs in 2019 having voted Labour in 2017.

    He is still yet to make any inroads into the Tory vote and in my view will not do unless we go to WTO terms Brexit in which case some Tory Remainers might switch to Labour or the LDs and some Labour 2017 to Tory 2019 switchers might switch back
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Outside the desolation of central London, the mood does seem brighter. The pubs are almost full now, restaurants are reopening, buses and trains are halfway back to normal.

    Hmm.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820
    HYUFD said:

    As is clear all Starmer has done is regain some Remainers who switched to the LDs in 2019 having voted Labour in 2017.

    He is still yet to make any inroads into the Tory vote and in my view will not do unless we go to WTO terms Brexit in which case some Tory Remainers might switch to Labour or the LDs and some Labour 2017 to Tory 2019 switchers might switch back

    While I hate to agree, Starmer is showing labour is now almost as dead electorally as an electoral force as the lib dems and we are just waiting for the corpse to decay.

    Now we need to get rid of the damn tories then we can start again
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,824

    Scott is not working !!!

    Your obsession is just creepy.

    Get a life
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    FPT:

    MaxPB said:

    I think people rather like having the pubs open again. Ever since then the Tory lead has become stronger and Labour whining about it has made them look out of touch.
    Town was very busy today and a lot more general activity
    Decided to try one of our favourite cafe bars today for the first time since this all kicked off. It's located on the edge of town and has a lot of outdoor space to spill out onto. Loads of outdoor tables and a couple of marquees, pretty well all taken. So much trade that they were a bit slow getting the orders out. Their experiment in only trading Friday/Saturday/Sunday has also ended and they're back to normal hours - all quite encouraging. Town itself had a bit of life to it as well.

    Am hopeful that things around here will be OK, provided that things don't go horribly wrong again in the Autumn... Meanwhile, travel into London (as evidenced by occupancy at the railway station car park) appears still to be operating, at a rough guess, at about 5% of pre-pandemic levels.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,564
    HYUFD said:

    As is clear all Starmer has done is regain some Remainers who switched to the LDs in 2019 having voted Labour in 2017.

    He is still yet to make any inroads into the Tory vote and in my view will not do unless we go to WTO terms Brexit in which case some Tory Remainers might switch to Labour or the LDs and some Labour 2017 to Tory 2019 switchers might switch back

    He hasn't made inroads yet, but there's time. He's not offputting, and that's a good start. But he will need to do more than just hope people get tired of Boris.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820
    LadyG said:

    Outside the desolation of central London, the mood does seem brighter. The pubs are almost full now, restaurants are reopening, buses and trains are halfway back to normal.

    Hmm.

    Good while I feel for the working poor that staffed those businesses hopefully they will move away from london and find a better quality of life. The death of London as an black hole sucking everyone into its employment event horizon is one to celebrate
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Back to that "cancellation" of the Guardian, the paper seems to have fallen victim to the culture wars, especially the trans-TERF wars, by appearing to be transphobic

    https://twitter.com/eatthe1youlove/status/1284493550797967360?s=20

    thus annoying many trans activitsts and their allies. Yet, at the same time it has annoyed traditional feminists and their allies, by apparently siding with the trans lobby!

    https://twitter.com/TheMalibuGirl/status/1284430505312690176?s=20


    What a nasty war it is
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,127
    LadyG said:

    Back to that "cancellation" of the Guardian, the paper seems to have fallen victim to the culture wars, especially the trans-TERF wars, by appearing to be transphobic

    https://twitter.com/eatthe1youlove/status/1284493550797967360?s=20

    thus annoying many trans activitsts and their allies. Yet, at the same time it has annoyed traditional feminists and their allies, by apparently siding with the trans lobby!

    https://twitter.com/TheMalibuGirl/status/1284430505312690176?s=20


    What a nasty war it is

    This revolution will eat its children.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820
    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    Back to that "cancellation" of the Guardian, the paper seems to have fallen victim to the culture wars, especially the trans-TERF wars, by appearing to be transphobic

    https://twitter.com/eatthe1youlove/status/1284493550797967360?s=20

    thus annoying many trans activitsts and their allies. Yet, at the same time it has annoyed traditional feminists and their allies, by apparently siding with the trans lobby!

    https://twitter.com/TheMalibuGirl/status/1284430505312690176?s=20


    What a nasty war it is

    This revolution will eat its children.
    That is, apparently, what is happening

    Now, they aren't going under immediately: the Scott Trust has nearly £1bn in the bank.

    But their brand could become so damaged in these cultutre skirmishes they have to relaunch. That's what happened to the News of the World of course, it was still making a profit, but the brand was shattered.

    Ironic if that now happens to the Graun
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,929
    LadyG said:

    Outside the desolation of central London, the mood does seem brighter. The pubs are almost full now, restaurants are reopening, buses and trains are halfway back to normal.

    Hmm.

    Yes, had my first post lockdown visit to the hairdresser today and Epping High Street busy which is still more than be said for Epping Station on a weekday
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    There's an article on the BBC today about a number of Scottish small businesses pleading for their customers to start paying by cash again because card transaction fees are costing them so much:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-53444700
  • RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    Bars can serve who ever they like and refuse whoever they like with no reason required.
  • Don’t really know what Labour can/should do tbh? How do they break through?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954

    Don’t really know what Labour can/should do tbh? How do they break through?

    There's four years left until the GE. I'm not sure why you are expecting them to push ahead this early, they haven't even started talking about policies yet.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

  • ManchesterKurtManchesterKurt Posts: 894
    edited July 2020

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,561
    So voters want PM Starmer leading a Tory government.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    I think it was introduced to stop people being paid in cabbages and that they had to always have a cash wages option. Not sure it is still the case
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,758
    edited July 2020
    HYUFD said:
    Replace "Saddened" with "Delighted" and you would get an accurate representation of Trump's views.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,470

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    Bars can serve who ever they like and refuse whoever they like with no reason required.
    This last is true, though there are exceptions such as racial grounds, but astonishingly it is lawful to refuse to take cash. This will increasingly be the case, while luddites (like me) await with interest a major electronic break down to see how long the contempt for good old cash lasts.

    It had always seemed to me to be axiomatic that as long as there were drug dealer, taxi drivers, small builders, on course bookies and people with a certain cautious wariness about the HMRC that cash would be around. Perhaps I am wrong.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954

    So voters want PM Starmer leading a Tory government.

    Weren't his ratings down too? ;)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    It has to be accepted for debts. If they’ve actually served the beers first, and they’ve been consumed, then they can’t refuse it - but they have the right to not serve the beers until they’re paid for, by card only if the establishment wishes to do this.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,929
    edited July 2020
    LadyG said:

    Outside the desolation of central London, the mood does seem brighter. The pubs are almost full now, restaurants are reopening, buses and trains are halfway back to normal.

    Hmm.

    Amazing how things can seem considerably less awful in the space of 24hrs. Of course we have the rollercoaster of successive 24hrs in front of us.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,758
    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    LadyG said:

    Back to that "cancellation" of the Guardian, the paper seems to have fallen victim to the culture wars, especially the trans-TERF wars, by appearing to be transphobic

    https://twitter.com/eatthe1youlove/status/1284493550797967360?s=20

    thus annoying many trans activitsts and their allies. Yet, at the same time it has annoyed traditional feminists and their allies, by apparently siding with the trans lobby!

    https://twitter.com/TheMalibuGirl/status/1284430505312690176?s=20

    What a nasty war it is

    My impression of The Guardian's output nowadays (I haven't a clue what they got up to years back and I can't be arsed to look) is that they're very pro-Trans. Indeed, it looks like Transphobia has replaced Islamophobia as the fashionable phobia to be addressed before all other phobias over the past year or so. However, what I think they're now discovering is that, for the loudest and most radical outliers in all these movements, it's *impossible* to be a good enough ally, and you will therefore do something to upset them (even if that something is imaginary) and be torn down eventually.

    More broadly, the Trans-TERF shenanigans is part of the inevitable process that occurs on the woke Left whenever two minority groups clash. Culture war narratives require that one side of an argument is not merely beaten but conquered and destroyed by the other, so it's not possible to mediate a truce between them, or to acknowledge that they might both have a point: one must be righteous and the other evil. The decision on whom is righteous and whom is evil is made by looking at their relative positions in the Hierarchy of Oppression. Transgender people occupy a much more exalted rank in the Hierarchy than feminists, so the feminists must be destroyed.

    The Guardian appears simply to be falling victim to the trends that it has helped to define. The feminists are angry with it because they think it's taken a stance against them, and the trans lobby are now getting angry because - well, God knows, perhaps for not taking a hard enough line against the feminists, or for a slight that happened in 1986, or for some mythical offence that occurred only inside their own minds? Anti-social media is so prolific and so very, very nasty that it's quite impossible to keep track of all these controversies and, moreover, no sane human being would want to.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,222
    RobD said:

    So voters want PM Starmer leading a Tory government.

    Weren't his ratings down too? ;)
    Boris still best PM
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,929
    On topic, I deplore a sub sample but another 6% for the SNP? Soon be a pattern..
  • Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,080
    CatMan said:

    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:

    They’re an absolute shower...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Contactless is the preferred route
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    As is clear all Starmer has done is regain some Remainers who switched to the LDs in 2019 having voted Labour in 2017.

    He is still yet to make any inroads into the Tory vote and in my view will not do unless we go to WTO terms Brexit in which case some Tory Remainers might switch to Labour or the LDs and some Labour 2017 to Tory 2019 switchers might switch back

    He hasn't made inroads yet, but there's time. He's not offputting, and that's a good start. But he will need to do more than just hope people get tired of Boris.
    Governments usually lose elections rather than Oppositions winning them. The impact of a recession is likely to significantly dent Tory support.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    LadyG said:

    LadyG said:

    Back to that "cancellation" of the Guardian, the paper seems to have fallen victim to the culture wars, especially the trans-TERF wars, by appearing to be transphobic

    https://twitter.com/eatthe1youlove/status/1284493550797967360?s=20

    thus annoying many trans activitsts and their allies. Yet, at the same time it has annoyed traditional feminists and their allies, by apparently siding with the trans lobby!

    https://twitter.com/TheMalibuGirl/status/1284430505312690176?s=20


    What a nasty war it is

    This revolution will eat its children.
    That is, apparently, what is happening

    Now, they aren't going under immediately: the Scott Trust has nearly £1bn in the bank.

    But their brand could become so damaged in these cultutre skirmishes they have to relaunch. That's what happened to the News of the World of course, it was still making a profit, but the brand was shattered.

    Ironic if that now happens to the Graun
    It’s not in the bank. A lot is in dodgy asset-stripping private equity vehicles based in the Caymans and other sunny places
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    So voters want PM Starmer leading a Tory government.

    A non-threatening lawyer leading a Tory government... bring back Tony Blair, all is forgiven!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,222
    Arsenal 2 up
  • stodgestodge Posts: 12,812
    Evening all :)

    Anecdata from East London this morning - busier but not back to pre-Covid levels. B&Q surprisingly quiet and supermarket quieter than I'd expect on a Saturday.

    It may be with more people at home during the week the normal weekend trade is down a little but that's supposition. Traffic levels nearer normal but not there yet.

    Neighbour tells me the morning Tubes are busier again and of course social distancing is already more honoured in the breach then the observance.

    As far as card vs cash - the only cash I used was a £1 coin for the shopping trolley. I'll still use cash for my paper and for small purchases but generally it's been card all the way since the pandemic started.

    Disappointing to see the pandemic referred to as a "hoax" or a "myth". 60,000 people have died from this hoax.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
    There are also cash only bars, I assume you'd apply the same logic to them for those who don't have the desire to carry cash?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,175
    CatMan said:

    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:

    "The film review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a "Certified Fresh" score of 98% and an average score of 8.6/10 based on 61 reviews."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_(film)
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820
    Charles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Contactless is the preferred route
    I don't care what the preferred route is. They should not be allowed to discriminate because you wish to pay in legal tender. There are over 2 million people with no access to a bank account and therefore no access to contactless whether they want to pay that way or not.

    You can bleat whats preferred all you like I dont give a damn what they prefer
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
    There are also cash only bars, I assume you'd apply the same logic to them for those who don't have the desire to carry cash?
    I don't think he's arguing that credit cards should be legal tender.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Don’t really know what Labour can/should do tbh? How do they break through?

    Ask tony? :)
  • Pagan2 said:

    Charles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Contactless is the preferred route
    I don't care what the preferred route is. They should not be allowed to discriminate because you wish to pay in legal tender. There are over 2 million people with no access to a bank account and therefore no access to contactless whether they want to pay that way or not.

    You can bleat whats preferred all you like I dont give a damn what they prefer
    Legal tender is not a thing.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    So voters want PM Starmer leading a Tory government.

    You're pretty close there.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,758

    CatMan said:

    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:

    "The film review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a "Certified Fresh" score of 98% and an average score of 8.6/10 based on 61 reviews."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_(film)
    Yes, but it has a certain scene in it with Honor Blackman which is a bit....erm..."dodgy".
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
    There are also cash only bars, I assume you'd apply the same logic to them for those who don't have the desire to carry cash?
    Why should the same apply? Everyone has access to cash not everyone has access to card payments. If you were to excuse white only hairdressers as there was black only hairdressers just across the road you would quite rightly be called a bigot
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    1. Recessions tend to help out governments.

    2. It is morally empty for an opposition to sit there, hoping that something will come up.

    2b. .. and, I think, will get appropriately 'rewarded' at the ballot box.

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820
    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
    There are also cash only bars, I assume you'd apply the same logic to them for those who don't have the desire to carry cash?
    I don't think he's arguing that credit cards should be legal tender.
    Correct I wasn't everyone has access to cash, only some have access to cards
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    The World Health Organization (WHO) has reported that 7,360 deaths have been recorded worldwide in the last 24 hours, the largest daily increase since last May 10. In addition, it has reported a new daily record of infections, with 259,848 new positives in the past day.
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
    There are also cash only bars, I assume you'd apply the same logic to them for those who don't have the desire to carry cash?
    Why should the same apply? Everyone has access to cash not everyone has access to card payments. If you were to excuse white only hairdressers as there was black only hairdressers just across the road you would quite rightly be called a bigot
    Everyone can get access to a payment card of some type.

    It may be hard, just as getting cash may be for some who life electronically.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pagan2 said:

    Charles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Contactless is the preferred route
    I don't care what the preferred route is. They should not be allowed to discriminate because you wish to pay in legal tender. There are over 2 million people with no access to a bank account and therefore no access to contactless whether they want to pay that way or not.

    You can bleat whats preferred all you like I dont give a damn what they prefer
    It was introduced when it was feRed cash was a fomite. You can get off your high horse - they were simply looking after the well-being of their staff.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,929
    Charles said:

    So voters want PM Starmer leading a Tory government.

    A non-threatening lawyer leading a Tory government... bring back Tony Blair, all is forgiven!
    Blair was ideologically a liberal One Nation Tory though, Starmer is ideologically a social democrat
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited July 2020

    So voters want PM Starmer leading a Tory government.

    Sounds about right. I think we can reasonably conclude that, in England, the Conservatives are a substantially more popular party, but one led by a Marmite politician, whereas Labour have a blank slate leader onto whom floating voters can inscribe their "safe, dull, dependable, not Boris" wishes.

    Labour's big hope under these circumstances is a deep and extended economic horror. If things don't get too bad for too long, and Sunak can thus emerge from the mess with his reputation substantially intact, then the Tories head towards the next election with a decent lead already in the bank and a more presentable alternative leader available to install.

    I mean, personally, I think that the economic horror will be awful and that all bets are consequently off, but if you're a bit less pessimistic than I am (which isn't difficult) then it's possible to imagine the Tories coming out of the other end of this in decent shape.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    LadyG said:

    Back to that "cancellation" of the Guardian, the paper seems to have fallen victim to the culture wars, especially the trans-TERF wars, by appearing to be transphobic

    https://twitter.com/eatthe1youlove/status/1284493550797967360?s=20

    thus annoying many trans activitsts and their allies. Yet, at the same time it has annoyed traditional feminists and their allies, by apparently siding with the trans lobby!

    https://twitter.com/TheMalibuGirl/status/1284430505312690176?s=20

    What a nasty war it is

    My impression of The Guardian's output nowadays (I haven't a clue what they got up to years back and I can't be arsed to look) is that they're very pro-Trans. Indeed, it looks like Transphobia has replaced Islamophobia as the fashionable phobia to be addressed before all other phobias over the past year or so. However, what I think they're now discovering is that, for the loudest and most radical outliers in all these movements, it's *impossible* to be a good enough ally, and you will therefore do something to upset them (even if that something is imaginary) and be torn down eventually.

    More broadly, the Trans-TERF shenanigans is part of the inevitable process that occurs on the woke Left whenever two minority groups clash. Culture war narratives require that one side of an argument is not merely beaten but conquered and destroyed by the other, so it's not possible to mediate a truce between them, or to acknowledge that they might both have a point: one must be righteous and the other evil. The decision on whom is righteous and whom is evil is made by looking at their relative positions in the Hierarchy of Oppression. Transgender people occupy a much more exalted rank in the Hierarchy than feminists, so the feminists must be destroyed.

    The Guardian appears simply to be falling victim to the trends that it has helped to define. The feminists are angry with it because they think it's taken a stance against them, and the trans lobby are now getting angry because - well, God knows, perhaps for not taking a hard enough line against the feminists, or for a slight that happened in 1986, or for some mythical offence that occurred only inside their own minds? Anti-social media is so prolific and so very, very nasty that it's quite impossible to keep track of all these controversies and, moreover, no sane human being would want to.
    No one would want to be on the killing floor of the Colosseum, but it's not so bad if you're safely up in the bleachers.

    FWIW the Guardian has enraged anti-Semites:

    https://twitter.com/flyingdancer/status/1284439677550727170?s=20

    But it has also enraged philo-Semites ( ithink)



    https://twitter.com/ztarasj/status/1283790744306610176?s=20


    And Muslims

    https://twitter.com/haseebchaudhary/status/1283415599159353353?s=20


    and Ex Guardian writers

    https://twitter.com/claseur/status/1283472378761113600?s=20

    And Corbyn's wife

    https://twitter.com/LauraAlvarezJC/status/1283726451360047104?s=20


    As you say, it is being destroyed by the ID politics it helped to construct.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,593
    edited July 2020
    HYUFD said:

    As is clear all Starmer has done is regain some Remainers who switched to the LDs in 2019 having voted Labour in 2017.

    He is still yet to make any inroads into the Tory vote and in my view will not do unless we go to WTO terms Brexit in which case some Tory Remainers might switch to Labour or the LDs and some Labour 2017 to Tory 2019 switchers might switch back

    Brexit will be largely done and dusted by the latter half of 2021, and the only issue left will be the form and extent of future trade agreements with the EU and other trading partners, in other words not something that will really shape the future voting choices of all but a few zealots. Meanwhile reality will be biting after the massive pain-free fiscal expansion of 2020, with millions of jobs ending in 2020 once the government ceases to pay the wages of 9 million furloughed staff. While in times of plenty people may not have cared much about whether the largesse was well spent, it'll become more of an issue once things go into reverse in order to pay for the huge debts incurred. Tax rises on those on middling incomes or another even more severe bout of austerity, all against a background of interest rates that are slowly rising back closer to historic norms. Finally, the virus will prove stubborn enough that expectations of an end to restrictions by the end of 2020 will be dashed, such that the current fairly buoyant mood will prove short lived.

    I think that's by far the most likely outcome, rather than an unduly pessimistic one. It's also a 2021 scenario where Starmer has every prospect of making substantial inroads into the 2019 Tory vote.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    A few days ago there was a lot of talkl about Opinium being the best pollster as it got the GE spot on - all gone quiiet tonight......
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Opinium failed to find a single respondent planning to vote Liberal Democrat in Scotland. And the SNP above 50%. Again.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820

    Pagan2 said:

    Charles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Contactless is the preferred route
    I don't care what the preferred route is. They should not be allowed to discriminate because you wish to pay in legal tender. There are over 2 million people with no access to a bank account and therefore no access to contactless whether they want to pay that way or not.

    You can bleat whats preferred all you like I dont give a damn what they prefer
    Legal tender is not a thing.
    Legal tender absolutely is a thing, I am arguing its definition should be extended

    Legal tender has a narrow technical meaning It means that if you offer to fully pay off a debt to someone in legal tender, they can’t sue you for failing to repay.

    Is the legal definition currently

    It should be amended to say must be accepted as payment for services
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    1. Recessions tend to help out governments.

    2. It is morally empty for an opposition to sit there, hoping that something will come up.

    2b. .. and, I think, will get appropriately 'rewarded' at the ballot box.

    Labour was certainly not helped by the recession in 2010 - nor were the Tories in 1992 when they lost 40 seats.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:

    "The film review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a "Certified Fresh" score of 98% and an average score of 8.6/10 based on 61 reviews."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_(film)
    Yes, but it has a certain scene in it with Honor Blackman which is a bit....erm..."dodgy".
    This one?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
    There are also cash only bars, I assume you'd apply the same logic to them for those who don't have the desire to carry cash?
    Why should the same apply? Everyone has access to cash not everyone has access to card payments. If you were to excuse white only hairdressers as there was black only hairdressers just across the road you would quite rightly be called a bigot
    Everyone can get access to a payment card of some type.

    It may be hard, just as getting cash may be for some who life electronically.
    Getting cash is never hard, if you are near a shop you are 90% of the time in walking distance of a cash point
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    On Covid 19 - the second wave is already on in Spain and gettting there in France. However, with noticeably fewer actual deaths so far. Combination of better treatments, quicker testing, and maybe the first wave taking out the low hanging fruit?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,929

    HYUFD said:

    As is clear all Starmer has done is regain some Remainers who switched to the LDs in 2019 having voted Labour in 2017.

    He is still yet to make any inroads into the Tory vote and in my view will not do unless we go to WTO terms Brexit in which case some Tory Remainers might switch to Labour or the LDs and some Labour 2017 to Tory 2019 switchers might switch back

    Brexit will be largely done and dusted by the latter half of 2021, and the only issue left will be the form and extent of future trade agreements with the EU and other trading partners, in other words not something that will really shape the future voting choices of all but a few zealots. Meanwhile reality will be biting after the massive pain-free fiscal expansion of 2020, with millions of jobs ending in 2020 once the government ceases to pay the wages of 9 million furloughed staff. While in times of plenty people may not have cared much about whether the largesse was well spent, it'll become more of an issue once things go into reverse in order to pay for the huge debts incurred. Tax rises on those on middling incomes or another even more severe bout of austerity, all against a background of interest rates that are slowly rising back closer to historic norms. Finally, the virus will prove stubborn enough that expectations of an end to restrictions by the end of 2020 will be dashed, such that the current fairly buoyant mood will prove short lived.

    I think that's by far the most likely outcome, rather than an unduly pessimistic one. It's also a 2021 scenario where Starmer has every prospect of making substantial inroads into the 2019 Tory vote.
    As has been shown Covid and the lockdown has made zero inroads in the Tory vote thanks to the furlough and likely will not do as lockdown continues to ease and businesses get back to close to normality with social distancing.

    Boris has also made clear austerity is over and the only tax rises considered might be a review of capital gains tax for the wealthy, middle income voters will be untouched and of course Starmer will always raise tax more than Boris anyway.

    So no, WTO terms Brexit is the only thing that might really change voting intention
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,758
    Charles said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:

    "The film review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a "Certified Fresh" score of 98% and an average score of 8.6/10 based on 61 reviews."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_(film)
    Yes, but it has a certain scene in it with Honor Blackman which is a bit....erm..."dodgy".
    This one?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88
    Yeah. It's basically saying "No means Yes if you try hard enough".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
    There are also cash only bars, I assume you'd apply the same logic to them for those who don't have the desire to carry cash?
    Why should the same apply? Everyone has access to cash not everyone has access to card payments. If you were to excuse white only hairdressers as there was black only hairdressers just across the road you would quite rightly be called a bigot
    Benefits are now paid into bank accounts rather than in cash. Pretty much everyone should have access to some form of payment system.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820
    Charles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Charles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Contactless is the preferred route
    I don't care what the preferred route is. They should not be allowed to discriminate because you wish to pay in legal tender. There are over 2 million people with no access to a bank account and therefore no access to contactless whether they want to pay that way or not.

    You can bleat whats preferred all you like I dont give a damn what they prefer
    It was introduced when it was feRed cash was a fomite. You can get off your high horse - they were simply looking after the well-being of their staff.
    They can by all means say card payment preferred insisting on card payment though excludes those without cards, This according to Kurt isn't a covid phenomena he proudly boasts of bigot bars in Manchester.....that continues it wont be long before you need certain grades of credit card to enter then the drivelling classes can be assured they never rub shoulders with proles
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Charles said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:

    "The film review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a "Certified Fresh" score of 98% and an average score of 8.6/10 based on 61 reviews."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_(film)
    Yes, but it has a certain scene in it with Honor Blackman which is a bit....erm..."dodgy".
    This one?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88
    Is that dodgy? We are in the era of 50 Shades, after all
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    What an odd view of the world you have if you actually believe that HMRC will get involved with those meagre sums.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited July 2020
    felix said:

    On Covid 19 - the second wave is already on in Spain and gettting there in France. However, with noticeably fewer actual deaths so far. Combination of better treatments, quicker testing, and maybe the first wave taking out the low hanging fruit?

    The current victims are apparently much younger with many in the 20/40 age group. Almost certainly due to behavior as we unlocked.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,593
    felix said:

    A few days ago there was a lot of talkl about Opinium being the best pollster as it got the GE spot on - all gone quiiet tonight......

    OK, just to spell it out for you, Opinium are the best pollster as they got the GE spot on. Will that do for you?

    I also look forward to their polling in 2022 and 2023, closer to the point when it really matters.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820
    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
    There are also cash only bars, I assume you'd apply the same logic to them for those who don't have the desire to carry cash?
    Why should the same apply? Everyone has access to cash not everyone has access to card payments. If you were to excuse white only hairdressers as there was black only hairdressers just across the road you would quite rightly be called a bigot
    Benefits are now paid into bank accounts rather than in cash. Pretty much everyone should have access to some form of payment system.
    Which are often post office accounts which don't have a cash payment option on the cards
  • Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
    There are also cash only bars, I assume you'd apply the same logic to them for those who don't have the desire to carry cash?
    Why should the same apply? Everyone has access to cash not everyone has access to card payments. If you were to excuse white only hairdressers as there was black only hairdressers just across the road you would quite rightly be called a bigot
    Everyone can get access to a payment card of some type.

    It may be hard, just as getting cash may be for some who life electronically.
    Getting cash is never hard, if you are near a shop you are 90% of the time in walking distance of a cash point
    Yet the Tesco or Amazon turn up at my front door I can never get cash off them.

    I have to make an effort to get cash.

    Others would have to go to an effort to get a payment card, their choice not to if they so choose.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    CatMan said:

    Charles said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:

    "The film review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a "Certified Fresh" score of 98% and an average score of 8.6/10 based on 61 reviews."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_(film)
    Yes, but it has a certain scene in it with Honor Blackman which is a bit....erm..."dodgy".
    This one?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88
    Yeah. It's basically saying "No means Yes if you try hard enough".
    I didn’t notice it at the time but watching it again just now it is a bit off
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,380
    LadyG said:

    Outside the desolation of central London, the mood does seem brighter. The pubs are almost full now, restaurants are reopening, buses and trains are halfway back to normal.

    Hmm.

    Small and medium-sized towns are reportedly quite busy.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pagan2 said:

    Charles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Charles said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Contactless is the preferred route
    I don't care what the preferred route is. They should not be allowed to discriminate because you wish to pay in legal tender. There are over 2 million people with no access to a bank account and therefore no access to contactless whether they want to pay that way or not.

    You can bleat whats preferred all you like I dont give a damn what they prefer
    It was introduced when it was feRed cash was a fomite. You can get off your high horse - they were simply looking after the well-being of their staff.
    They can by all means say card payment preferred insisting on card payment though excludes those without cards, This according to Kurt isn't a covid phenomena he proudly boasts of bigot bars in Manchester.....that continues it wont be long before you need certain grades of credit card to enter then the drivelling classes can be assured they never rub shoulders with proles
    If it’s purely a commercial decision they can do what they like. I have to wear a suit and tie to go to my favourite coffee shop but I don’t object
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    LadyG said:

    Charles said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:

    "The film review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a "Certified Fresh" score of 98% and an average score of 8.6/10 based on 61 reviews."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_(film)
    Yes, but it has a certain scene in it with Honor Blackman which is a bit....erm..."dodgy".
    This one?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88
    Is that dodgy? We are in the era of 50 Shades, after all
    He’s being very insistent when she isn’t interested
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820
    MaxPB said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    What an odd view of the world you have if you actually believe that HMRC will get involved with those meagre sums.
    Ah this is the hmrc which adds benefit in kind taxes onto employees if their firm pays over something like 17£ a head towards the office christmas party....no obviously they won't. Having computerised records of every friend to friend loan of money and calculating tax due is a simple database query. What makes you think they wont do it when they will likely rake in several tens of millions a year through it?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
    There are also cash only bars, I assume you'd apply the same logic to them for those who don't have the desire to carry cash?
    Why should the same apply? Everyone has access to cash not everyone has access to card payments. If you were to excuse white only hairdressers as there was black only hairdressers just across the road you would quite rightly be called a bigot
    Everyone can get access to a payment card of some type.

    It may be hard, just as getting cash may be for some who life electronically.
    Getting cash is never hard, if you are near a shop you are 90% of the time in walking distance of a cash point
    Yet the Tesco or Amazon turn up at my front door I can never get cash off them.

    I have to make an effort to get cash.

    Others would have to go to an effort to get a payment card, their choice not to if they so choose.
    Soon: https://www.engadget.com/2019-09-18-amazon-paycode-cash-payment-western-union.html :D
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    On topic, I deplore a sub sample but another 6% for the SNP? Soon be a pattern..

    Oh, I think we all know what's coming on that front next Spring, as surely as night follows day.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    nichomar said:

    The World Health Organization (WHO) has reported that 7,360 deaths have been recorded worldwide in the last 24 hours, the largest daily increase since last May 10. In addition, it has reported a new daily record of infections, with 259,848 new positives in the past day.

    People are not realising this. It’s now worse than it’s ever been worldwide, even as many local economies seem to have recovered to a large extent.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited July 2020
    Charles said:

    LadyG said:

    Charles said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:

    "The film review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a "Certified Fresh" score of 98% and an average score of 8.6/10 based on 61 reviews."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_(film)
    Yes, but it has a certain scene in it with Honor Blackman which is a bit....erm..."dodgy".
    This one?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88
    Is that dodgy? We are in the era of 50 Shades, after all
    He’s being very insistent when she isn’t interested
    Pretty much exactly the same happens - albeit much kinkier and sexier - in 50 Shades. A book bought by about 100 million women, turned into a very popular movie
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,820

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    RobD said:

    Pagan2 said:

    The first sentence the men have a point. There is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to pay with money. Many of us prefer not to use cards and I don't see a difference between handling notes and handling one of the hand held things to put your pin number is. Having said that they should have been barred for the second sentence content.
    Are you allowed to refuse cash? I thought it always had to be accepted.
    As I recall this has something to do with Truck acts

    Loads of bars in Manchester only take card payment and have been since pre C-19, they just don't have anything to store cash in.

    They all have card payment only on the front doors.
    This is exactly the sort of thing that needs to be stamped out. Legal tender must always be an option. I shudder when people talk about a cashless society as all that does it put in traceability of every penny you spend to whitehall. I will never give patronage to a place that won't take cash.

    Inevitably a cashless society ends up in your friend saying can I borrow 20£ off you I forgot my wallet and HMRC sending him a tax bill for what he owes as they count it as income.
    Not the case.

    I worked in bars in the early 90s, we could refuse service to anyone we wished back then without having to justify why, it's the only sector that this is the case.

    It's just an extension of that, dozens and dozens of bars in Manchester are cashless given the types of customers they serve and the way they operate.
    I didn't claim they weren't legally allowed to I said it had to be stamped out and that parliament should legislate that refusing cash should be a no go and patrons should boycott anywhere that refuses case. It is for a start discriminatory as an estimated couple of million people dont have access to a bank account
    There are also cash only bars, I assume you'd apply the same logic to them for those who don't have the desire to carry cash?
    Why should the same apply? Everyone has access to cash not everyone has access to card payments. If you were to excuse white only hairdressers as there was black only hairdressers just across the road you would quite rightly be called a bigot
    Everyone can get access to a payment card of some type.

    It may be hard, just as getting cash may be for some who life electronically.
    Getting cash is never hard, if you are near a shop you are 90% of the time in walking distance of a cash point
    Yet the Tesco or Amazon turn up at my front door I can never get cash off them.

    I have to make an effort to get cash.

    Others would have to go to an effort to get a payment card, their choice not to if they so choose.
    If Tesco's or Amazon turn up you have already paid else they wouldn't have turned up. Its a lot more effort to get a payment card for those that don't have one than to find a damn cashpoint
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    felix said:

    A few days ago there was a lot of talkl about Opinium being the best pollster as it got the GE spot on - all gone quiiet tonight......

    OK, just to spell it out for you, Opinium are the best pollster as they got the GE spot on. Will that do for you?

    I also look forward to their polling in 2022 and 2023, closer to the point when it really matters.
    Nerve touched - job done! :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,175
    LadyG said:

    Charles said:

    LadyG said:

    Charles said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:

    "The film review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a "Certified Fresh" score of 98% and an average score of 8.6/10 based on 61 reviews."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_(film)
    Yes, but it has a certain scene in it with Honor Blackman which is a bit....erm..."dodgy".
    This one?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88
    Is that dodgy? We are in the era of 50 Shades, after all
    He’s being very insistent when she isn’t interested
    Pretty much exactly the same happens - albeit much kinkier and sexier - in 50 Shades. A book bought by about 100 million women, turned into a very popular movie
    "On Rotten Tomatoes, the film has an approval rating of 25% based on 277 reviews, with an average rating of 4.16/10. The website's critical consensus reads, "While creatively better endowed than its print counterpart, Fifty Shades of Grey is a less than satisfying experience on the screen."[182] Metacritic gave the film a score of 46 out of 100, based on reviews from 46 critics, indicating "mixed or average reviews"."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Shades_of_Grey_(film)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    LadyG said:

    Charles said:

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    OT: ITV are showing Thunderball tonight. They showed From Russia With Love last week, so are skipping Goldfinger. I think I know why... :neutral:

    "The film review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes gives the film a "Certified Fresh" score of 98% and an average score of 8.6/10 based on 61 reviews."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfinger_(film)
    Yes, but it has a certain scene in it with Honor Blackman which is a bit....erm..."dodgy".
    This one?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1pUXH1Bye88
    Is that dodgy? We are in the era of 50 Shades, after all
    For everyone who calls it playful flirting, another will call it just a little bit rapey.

    In a new movie, that scene would get it a straight 18 cert - not the PG it got at the time.
This discussion has been closed.