politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Passing the buck Boris style

System

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Passing the buck Boris style

Fury as Boris Johnson accuses care homes over high Covid-19 death toll https://t.co/0KZA7P3dOQ

Read the full story here

SandyRentool

Wot?

SandyRentool

Can't edit, so that was first down there.

On topic, this looks like a dead cat, so what are we missing?

isam

Care homes are thought of very highly on here. Before the Covid crisis there was a furore over how they could possibly be staffed without the ability to hire immigrants on the minimum wage. The owners seem to be considered quasi philanthropists, maybe we should clap them every Thursday?

CatMan

https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1280159027884851200?s=20

Sunil_Prasannan

SandyRentool said:

Can't edit, so that was first down there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_conflict

squareroot2

isam said:

Care homes are thought of very highly on here. Before the Covid crisis there was a furore over how they could possibly be staffed without the ability to hire immigrants on the minimum wage. The owners seem to be considered quasi philanthropists, maybe we should clap them every Thursday?

really.. I thought the owners were considered as money grabbing bastards charging outrageous fees until woke hit us. You appear to be trying to rewrite history./

Mexicanpete

SandyRentool said:

Can't edit, so that was first down there.

On topic, this looks like a dead cat, so what are we missing?

Not so much a dead cat as lots and lots of dead pensioners. I don't believe Johnson would be that cynical.

RobD

What's the point even saying it now? Fair enough to say the standard stuff to learn bit, but really?

williamglenn

A statue of former Ethiopian leader Haile Selassie has been destroyed in a park in Wimbledon, south-west London.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53259409

Alistair

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

I see Establishment toadie Neil Oliver has been sacked by the National Trust for Scotland, after supporting... wait for it... David Starkey. You couldn’t make it up.

What is it about Unionists that makes them take out a whacking great shotgun, aim for their foot, and pull the trigger?

Shame on National Trust for Scotland is all I will say, Oliver is an excellent historian

He's.... He's not a historian.

HYUFD

Alistair said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

I see Establishment toadie Neil Oliver has been sacked by the National Trust for Scotland, after supporting... wait for it... David Starkey. You couldn’t make it up.

What is it about Unionists that makes them take out a whacking great shotgun, aim for their foot, and pull the trigger?

Shame on National Trust for Scotland is all I will say, Oliver is an excellent historian

He's.... He's not a historian.

He is, he is a historian and archaelogist

rottenborough

It's a bloody disgrace.

I hope Starmer gives him both barrels on Wednesday. Massive open goal.

isam

squareroot2 said:

isam said:

Care homes are thought of very highly on here. Before the Covid crisis there was a furore over how they could possibly be staffed without the ability to hire immigrants on the minimum wage. The owners seem to be considered quasi philanthropists, maybe we should clap them every Thursday?

really.. I thought the owners were considered as money grabbing bastards charging outrageous fees until woke hit us. You appear to be trying to rewrite history./

I made the argument you cite, and was howled down for it.

dixiedean

HYUFD said:

Alistair said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

I see Establishment toadie Neil Oliver has been sacked by the National Trust for Scotland, after supporting... wait for it... David Starkey. You couldn’t make it up.

What is it about Unionists that makes them take out a whacking great shotgun, aim for their foot, and pull the trigger?

Shame on National Trust for Scotland is all I will say, Oliver is an excellent historian

He's.... He's not a historian.

He is, he is a historian and archaelogist

TV presenter in the main.

rottenborough

SandyRentool said:

Can't edit, so that was first down there.

On topic, this looks like a dead cat, so what are we missing?

Cummings been on another eye test?

MattW

isam said:

squareroot2 said:

isam said:

Care homes are thought of very highly on here. Before the Covid crisis there was a furore over how they could possibly be staffed without the ability to hire immigrants on the minimum wage. The owners seem to be considered quasi philanthropists, maybe we should clap them every Thursday?

really.. I thought the owners were considered as money grabbing bastards charging outrageous fees until woke hit us. You appear to be trying to rewrite history./

I made the argument you cite, and was howled down for it.

As I recall, a lot of ill-informed people were pretending that the fees were far higher than was actually the case.

Philanthropic in that private customers cross-subsidise Council clients.

MattW

Sunil_Prasannan said:

SandyRentool said:

Can't edit, so that was first down there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_conflict

I thought for a minute you were talking about the currently fashionable racist insult !

RochdalePioneers

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

williamglenn

Rejoice Big G.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1280256209472421890

rottenborough

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Does he seriously think the public will buy this pile of crap about care homes being to blame?

RochdalePioneers

rottenborough said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Does he seriously think the public will buy this pile of crap about care homes being to blame?

Clap for carers remember.

He probably doesn't know that hospital trusts were issued instructions to discharge patients back (to their care) home without a test. When the evidence starts being pushed out by even the friendly press he'll simply announce a £1,500 holiday voucher per family as a distraction

Sunil_Prasannan

MattW said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

SandyRentool said:

Can't edit, so that was first down there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_conflict

I thought for a minute you were talking about the currently fashionable racist insult !

The Karen are a race!

SandyRentool

Sunil_Prasannan said:

SandyRentool said:

Can't edit, so that was first down there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_conflict

That's not quite what I was referring to, Comrade.

theProle

I'm not sure how much blame for all this mess should be attached directly to Johnston, but my instinct is that it wouldn't have mattered much who was in power, they would all have done the same things around the same time. People forget quickly what things were like at the time - I don't think there was public buy-in for lockdown a week earlier, even professor pantsdown and his mates were saying "not yet". Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it is just that.

The care home disaster was mostly because of the discharge of patients back to care homes from hospital without adequate CV19 testing. I doubt that was a Johnson decision directly, it was more an NHS thing.

Most of the worst failings in this crisis seem to have revolved round Public Health England, but we don't seem to hear much about whoever is in charge there - doubtless they will be off to thier next gold plated role with a knighthood long before their part in the sorry saga is investigated.

Part of the problem is that having elevated the NHS to a religion, it is s now impossible to question any aspect of it without accusations of not supporting our doctors and nurses. My boots on the ground contacts say that whilst some bits were excellent, other aspects were pretty shocking - but it's politically impossible to investigate any of it because of the screaming about it being a wonder of the world.

SandyRentool

MattW said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

SandyRentool said:

Can't edit, so that was first down there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_conflict

I thought for a minute you were talking about the currently fashionable racist insult !

I was, but Dr P has lead us astray.

kle4

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Do you get moral scumbags?

Sunil_Prasannan

SandyRentool said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

SandyRentool said:

Can't edit, so that was first down there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_conflict

That's not quite what I was referring to, Comrade.

The Karen are a race!

CatMan

williamglenn said:

Rejoice Big G.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1280256209472421890

0.1% of our GDP

Sunil_Prasannan

On topic:

Clowns belong in the circus, not in No. 10!

kle4

williamglenn said:

Rejoice Big G.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1280256209472421890

I confess I no longer follow Brexit stories. Even for the cyclical nature of politics and the standard tropes that politicians trot out both sides had become so formulaic and the reporting hysteria just became too ludicrous to bear as a result. Every negotiation cliche was used up in the pre-Brexit talks, and they cannot figure out a way to report the two sides jockeying for position in an interesting way anymore.

Theuniondivvie

Alistair said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

I see Establishment toadie Neil Oliver has been sacked by the National Trust for Scotland, after supporting... wait for it... David Starkey. You couldn’t make it up.

What is it about Unionists that makes them take out a whacking great shotgun, aim for their foot, and pull the trigger?

Shame on National Trust for Scotland is all I will say, Oliver is an excellent historian

He's.... He's not a historian.

Come now, he's as much an historian as Hugh Pennington is a virologist.

MikeSmithson

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Why don't you write what you really think.

LostPassword

I have been very critical of the government, and I think it's mishandling of the virus crisis has caused tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, but I think there's a good chance they will handle the political fallout better than the virus.

One thing in Johnson's favour with what he is reported to have said is that, regardless of how badly the government have performed, many other people and organisations will also have made mistakes. An outraged response to Johnson's comments may end up making him look reasonable. Care homes are unlikely to have handled the virus perfectly. Some individual care homes may end up being even more badly run than the government. Criticism of them will therefore be perfectly reasonable - to an extent - but the hyperbole of the reaction to Johnson attempting to avoid his fair share of the blame could easily go over the top, and make it easier for him to escape censure.

The other thing that I'm keeping in mind is that we know a lot of shit is heading the government's way, but they are showing that they are perfectly willing to get out ahead of it and deflect it onto others. We've seen with the recent polling on the public preparing to blame the rest of the public, rather than the government, for the second wave, if it comes, that this is still a government that can shape the public mood to its advantage.

Charles

isam said:

Care homes are thought of very highly on here. Before the Covid crisis there was a furore over how they could possibly be staffed without the ability to hire immigrants on the minimum wage. The owners seem to be considered quasi philanthropists, maybe we should clap them every Thursday?

I know the owners of most of the care homes in the U.K. (barchester, Four Seasons, HC One).

Fuck me, a bigger bunch of sleaze balls I’ve never met

Nigelb

isam said:

squareroot2 said:

isam said:

Care homes are thought of very highly on here. Before the Covid crisis there was a furore over how they could possibly be staffed without the ability to hire immigrants on the minimum wage. The owners seem to be considered quasi philanthropists, maybe we should clap them every Thursday?

really.. I thought the owners were considered as money grabbing bastards charging outrageous fees until woke hit us. You appear to be trying to rewrite history./

I made the argument you cite, and was howled down for it.

It’s an otiose argument in any case. The standard of care homes varies tremendously, so there is no right or wrong judgment about the sector as a whole (though one might ask about the government responsibility for that).

The point here is that government has a direct responsibility for what happened, which they have refused subsequently to acknowledge. Johnson’s comments were pitiful deflection.

Nigelb

RochdalePioneers said:

rottenborough said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Does he seriously think the public will buy this pile of crap about care homes being to blame?

Clap for carers remember.

He probably doesn't know that hospital trusts were issued instructions to discharge patients back (to their care) home without a test. When the evidence starts being pushed out by even the friendly press he'll simply announce a £1,500 holiday voucher per family as a distraction

It is worse than that - for a period of weeks they were strongly encouraged to discharge non critical infected patients.

Sunil_Prasannan

Charles said:

isam said:

Care homes are thought of very highly on here. Before the Covid crisis there was a furore over how they could possibly be staffed without the ability to hire immigrants on the minimum wage. The owners seem to be considered quasi philanthropists, maybe we should clap them every Thursday?

I know the owners of most of the care homes in the U.K. (barchester, Four Seasons, HC One).

Fuck me, a bigger bunch of sleaze balls I’ve never met

You mean you never met Boris???

kle4

LostPassword said:

I have been very critical of the government, and I think it's mishandling of the virus crisis has caused tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths, but I think there's a good chance they will handle the political fallout better than the virus.

One thing in Johnson's favour with what he is reported to have said is that, regardless of how badly the government have performed, many other people and organisations will also have made mistakes. An outraged response to Johnson's comments may end up making him look reasonable. Care homes are unlikely to have handled the virus perfectly. Some individual care homes may end up being even more badly run than the government. Criticism of them will therefore be perfectly reasonable - to an extent - but the hyperbole of the reaction to Johnson attempting to avoid his fair share of the blame could easily go over the top, and make it easier for him to escape censure.

The other thing that I'm keeping in mind is that we know a lot of shit is heading the government's way, but they are showing that they are perfectly willing to get out ahead of it and deflect it onto others. We've seen with the recent polling on the public preparing to blame the rest of the public, rather than the government, for the second wave, if it comes, that this is still a government that can shape the public mood to its advantage.

Hmm, I can see that being the strategy, but for me it seems like trying to divert an iceberg. Governments get unpopular after a few years anyway, and renewed leadership and (intended) new direction giving it some initial fresh impetus or not, the unavoidable truth is that things are likely going to be very bad economically, and add that to natural goverment unpopularity (now that Corbyn is back in his natural state ossifying on the backbenches), and that while I've given the government plenty of leeway there's no escaping that our situation looks to be at the upper end of bad, and while I do not doubt there are plenty of mistakes others have made which are not the government's fault (I think we ascribe too much power and responsibility onto government), I cannot see that actually helping the government politically.

Nigelb

kle4 said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Do you get moral scumbags?

You get immoral scumbags.

Floater

If anyone wants to hear the latest position in USA as regards Covid

Agenda free tv on Youtube has a stream starting in a couple of minutes

He generally shares some good info and can be quite funny when he loses the plot if his followers start claiming its a conspiracy to hurt Trump

kle4

Sandpit said:

CarlottaVance said:

Hong Kong https://hongkongfp.com/2020/07/06/breaking-hong-kong-security-law-police-handed-power-to-do-warrantless-searches-freeze-assets-intercept-comms-control-internet/

More Hong Kong: burning schoolbooks edition
https://www.nst.com.my/world/world/2020/07/606440/hk-govt-tells-schools-remove-books-breaching-security-law

They don't waste time do they?

Charles

CatMan said:

williamglenn said:

Rejoice Big G.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1280256209472421890

0.1% of our GDP

A cat not liking fish?

Richard_Nabavi

Not for the first time, the Guardian headline and the general hyper-indignation don't accurately reflect what Boris is actually quoted as saying, in the very same article. “We discovered too many care homes didn’t really follow the procedures in the way that they could have but we’re learning lessons the whole time. Most important is to fund them properly … but we will also be looking at ways to make sure the care sector long term is properly organised and supported." is not blaming anyone, indeed it points to the government not having understood quickly enough the reality on the ground. and having to learn lessons.

Lord knows there's plenty to criticise the government for, without hyper-ventilating about a marginally less than perfect expression of a not particularly controversial point.

Charles

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Charles said:

isam said:

Care homes are thought of very highly on here. Before the Covid crisis there was a furore over how they could possibly be staffed without the ability to hire immigrants on the minimum wage. The owners seem to be considered quasi philanthropists, maybe we should clap them every Thursday?

I know the owners of most of the care homes in the U.K. (barchester, Four Seasons, HC One).

Fuck me, a bigger bunch of sleaze balls I’ve never met

You mean you never met Boris???

Of course I’ve met Boris.

Nigelb

HYUFD said:

Alistair said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

I see Establishment toadie Neil Oliver has been sacked by the National Trust for Scotland, after supporting... wait for it... David Starkey. You couldn’t make it up.

What is it about Unionists that makes them take out a whacking great shotgun, aim for their foot, and pull the trigger?

Shame on National Trust for Scotland is all I will say, Oliver is an excellent historian

He's.... He's not a historian.

He is, he is a historian and archaelogist

I believe @ydoethur is rather better qualified as an historian ?

And what is a ‘freelance archaeologist’ ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Oliver

williamglenn

Mayor of Atlanta has Covid-19.

https://twitter.com/KeishaBottoms/status/1280256462674104321

Nigelb

theProle said:

I'm not sure how much blame for all this mess should be attached directly to Johnston, but my instinct is that it wouldn't have mattered much who was in power, they would all have done the same things around the same time. People forget quickly what things were like at the time - I don't think there was public buy-in for lockdown a week earlier, even professor pantsdown and his mates were saying "not yet". Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it is just that.

The care home disaster was mostly because of the discharge of patients back to care homes from hospital without adequate CV19 testing. I doubt that was a Johnson decision directly, it was more an NHS thing.

It was a specific government policy.
I’ve posted the link to the government website several times.

Floater

Texas - hospitalised cases

2320 - 15 June

8698 today

Theuniondivvie

Nigelb said:

RochdalePioneers said:

rottenborough said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Does he seriously think the public will buy this pile of crap about care homes being to blame?

Clap for carers remember.

He probably doesn't know that hospital trusts were issued instructions to discharge patients back (to their care) home without a test. When the evidence starts being pushed out by even the friendly press he'll simply announce a £1,500 holiday voucher per family as a distraction

It is worse than that - for a period of weeks they were strongly encouraged to discharge non critical infected patients.

My memory is turning to lockdown mush, but weren't there cases of hospitals bullying junior staff members of care homes over the phone to accept infected patients back despite the homes having a policy of not taking them?

Theuniondivvie

Nigelb said:

HYUFD said:

Alistair said:

HYUFD said:

StuartDickson said:

I see Establishment toadie Neil Oliver has been sacked by the National Trust for Scotland, after supporting... wait for it... David Starkey. You couldn’t make it up.

What is it about Unionists that makes them take out a whacking great shotgun, aim for their foot, and pull the trigger?

Shame on National Trust for Scotland is all I will say, Oliver is an excellent historian

He's.... He's not a historian.

He is, he is a historian and archaelogist

I believe @ydoethur is rather better qualified as an historian ?

And what is a ‘freelance archaeologist’ ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Oliver

'trowel for hire'

williamglenn

And Bolsonaro has symptoms of Covid.

https://twitter.com/CNNBrasil/status/1280261911582474240

Luckyguy1983

williamglenn said:

Mayor of Atlanta has Covid-19.

https://twitter.com/KeishaBottoms/status/1280256462674104321

Let's hope she quickly gives Coronavirus the bums rush.

Floater

williamglenn said:

And Bolsonaro has symptoms of Covid.

https://twitter.com/CNNBrasil/status/1280261911582474240

I wish harm to no one - but that would be ironic

Richard_Nabavi

This is amusing - the suggestion is that Huawei were spending $30,000 a month to influence Sarah Wollaston and a LibDem peer so obscure that they didn't know that he was already on their international advisory board:

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jul/06/peer-baffled-by-claims-he-was-targeted-by-fake-pr-campaign-to-boost-huawei

MarqueeMark

Floater said:

Texas - hospitalised cases

2320 - 15 June

8698 today

"“It's a mess, aint it Sheriff?

If it aint it'll do till a mess gets here.”

Andy_JS

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Because of his comments about carers?

theProle

Nigelb said:

theProle said:

I'm not sure how much blame for all this mess should be attached directly to Johnston, but my instinct is that it wouldn't have mattered much who was in power, they would all have done the same things around the same time. People forget quickly what things were like at the time - I don't think there was public buy-in for lockdown a week earlier, even professor pantsdown and his mates were saying "not yet". Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it is just that.

The care home disaster was mostly because of the discharge of patients back to care homes from hospital without adequate CV19 testing. I doubt that was a Johnson decision directly, it was more an NHS thing.

It was a specific government policy.
I’ve posted the link to the government website several times.

Set by whom within government? Probably by a civil servant in Health rather than by a government minister, almost certainly not Johnson himself. Again in hindsight it was the stupidest decision of the crisis, but at the time they thought that hospitals were about to be overwhelmed by the young and middle aged and so they were clearing every bed they could - and in that context it was more logical, even if fatally flawed.

Nigelb

Theuniondivvie said:

Nigelb said:

RochdalePioneers said:

rottenborough said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Does he seriously think the public will buy this pile of crap about care homes being to blame?

Clap for carers remember.

He probably doesn't know that hospital trusts were issued instructions to discharge patients back (to their care) home without a test. When the evidence starts being pushed out by even the friendly press he'll simply announce a £1,500 holiday voucher per family as a distraction

It is worse than that - for a period of weeks they were strongly encouraged to discharge non critical infected patients.

My memory is turning to lockdown mush, but weren't there cases of hospitals bullying junior staff members of care homes over the phone to accept infected patients back despite the homes having a policy of not taking them?

I believe so.
It is of course true that some homes were more determined in standing up to pressure than others (and it seems that goes for hospital trusts, with respect to government pressure, as well).

Luckyguy1983

Boris has a rather 'out of the mouths of babes' way of saying things that are probably true, but sound like he's put his foot in it. If this is a cunningly planted soundbite to shift blame to the care sector, it's certainly been disguised well.

HYUFD

https://twitter.com/DeansOfCardiff/status/1280249299746652160?s=20

Nigelb

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Charles said:

isam said:

Care homes are thought of very highly on here. Before the Covid crisis there was a furore over how they could possibly be staffed without the ability to hire immigrants on the minimum wage. The owners seem to be considered quasi philanthropists, maybe we should clap them every Thursday?

I know the owners of most of the care homes in the U.K. (barchester, Four Seasons, HC One).

Fuck me, a bigger bunch of sleaze balls I’ve never met

You mean you never met Boris???

Is Boris a bunch of sleaze balls ?
Not sure that’s technically correct.

An everted pyramid of piffle, perhaps.

Luckyguy1983

Nigelb said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Nigelb said:

RochdalePioneers said:

rottenborough said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Does he seriously think the public will buy this pile of crap about care homes being to blame?

Clap for carers remember.

He probably doesn't know that hospital trusts were issued instructions to discharge patients back (to their care) home without a test. When the evidence starts being pushed out by even the friendly press he'll simply announce a £1,500 holiday voucher per family as a distraction

It is worse than that - for a period of weeks they were strongly encouraged to discharge non critical infected patients.

My memory is turning to lockdown mush, but weren't there cases of hospitals bullying junior staff members of care homes over the phone to accept infected patients back despite the homes having a policy of not taking them?

I believe so.
It is of course true that some homes were more determined in standing up to pressure than others (and it seems that goes for hospital trusts, with respect to government pressure, as well).

You appear to have willed Public Health England out of existence.

Nigelb

Richard_Nabavi said:

Not for the first time, the Guardian headline and the general hyper-indignation don't accurately reflect what Boris is actually quoted as saying, in the very same article. “We discovered too many care homes didn’t really follow the procedures in the way that they could have but we’re learning lessons the whole time. Most important is to fund them properly … but we will also be looking at ways to make sure the care sector long term is properly organised and supported." is not blaming anyone, indeed it points to the government not having understood quickly enough the reality on the ground. and having to learn lessons.

Lord knows there's plenty to criticise the government for, without hyper-ventilating about a marginally less than perfect expression of a not particularly controversial point.

That doesn’t really wash, Richard.

Particularly in view of the subsequent No.10 clarification:
” The PM was pointing out that nobody knew what the correct procedures were because the extent of asymptomatic transmission was not known at the time...”

isam

Surely it's Dominic Cummings' fault really?

dodrade

CatMan said:

williamglenn said:

Rejoice Big G.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1280256209472421890

0.1% of our GDP

Control of fishing waters is pretty much the only issue the government can put one over the SNP (who want to rejoin the EU and hand it straight back) in Scotland.

williamglenn

dodrade said:

CatMan said:

williamglenn said:

Rejoice Big G.

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1280256209472421890

0.1% of our GDP

Control of fishing waters is pretty much the only issue the government can put one over the SNP (who want to rejoin the EU and hand it straight back) in Scotland.

It sounds like the offer is a different way of calculating something like the status quo, not the annual negotiations the government says it wants.

Philip_Thompson

Richard_Nabavi said:

Not for the first time, the Guardian headline and the general hyper-indignation don't accurately reflect what Boris is actually quoted as saying, in the very same article. “We discovered too many care homes didn’t really follow the procedures in the way that they could have but we’re learning lessons the whole time. Most important is to fund them properly … but we will also be looking at ways to make sure the care sector long term is properly organised and supported." is not blaming anyone, indeed it points to the government not having understood quickly enough the reality on the ground. and having to learn lessons.

Lord knows there's plenty to criticise the government for, without hyper-ventilating about a marginally less than perfect expression of a not particularly controversial point.

Well put.

If anyone other than Boris had said that it would be pretty uncontroversial to suggest the Care sector needs more government support and finance.

HYUFD

isam said:

Surely it's Dominic Cummings' fault really?

Probably, Cummings now wants to slash the army and scrap the Royal Marines apparently as if he has not done enough already to annoy traditional Tories this will have the colonels in the shires putting his face on their dartboards!
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1279756872904577025?s=20

Given the left and Remainers all despise the man, if he loses the Tory heartlands too who exactly does he have left bar a few techno geek libertarians and Boris and Gove?

Pulpstar

BOris is probably correct, heard some right tales...
Care home workers pure gold for the most part of course.

alterego

Philip_Thompson said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Not for the first time, the Guardian headline and the general hyper-indignation don't accurately reflect what Boris is actually quoted as saying, in the very same article. “We discovered too many care homes didn’t really follow the procedures in the way that they could have but we’re learning lessons the whole time. Most important is to fund them properly … but we will also be looking at ways to make sure the care sector long term is properly organised and supported." is not blaming anyone, indeed it points to the government not having understood quickly enough the reality on the ground. and having to learn lessons.

Lord knows there's plenty to criticise the government for, without hyper-ventilating about a marginally less than perfect expression of a not particularly controversial point.

Well put.

If anyone other than Boris had said that it would be pretty uncontroversial to suggest the Care sector needs more government support and finance.

That's politics for ya.

LostPassword

HYUFD said:

isam said:

Surely it's Dominic Cummings' fault really?

Probably, Cummings now wants to slash the army and scrap the Royal Marines apparently as if he has not done enough already to annoy traditional Tories this will have the colonels in the shires putting his face on their dartboards!
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1279756872904577025?s=20

Given the left and Remainers all despise the man, if he loses the Tory heartlands too who exactly does he have left bar a few techno geek libertarians and Boris and Gove?

Boris, Gove and fear. Don't underestimate fear.

Charles

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/DeansOfCardiff/status/1280249299746652160?s=20

Not as much as...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gygpvd9_Ra0

Nigelb

.

Luckyguy1983 said:

Nigelb said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Nigelb said:

RochdalePioneers said:

rottenborough said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Does he seriously think the public will buy this pile of crap about care homes being to blame?

Clap for carers remember.

He probably doesn't know that hospital trusts were issued instructions to discharge patients back (to their care) home without a test. When the evidence starts being pushed out by even the friendly press he'll simply announce a £1,500 holiday voucher per family as a distraction

It is worse than that - for a period of weeks they were strongly encouraged to discharge non critical infected patients.

My memory is turning to lockdown mush, but weren't there cases of hospitals bullying junior staff members of care homes over the phone to accept infected patients back despite the homes having a policy of not taking them?

I believe so.
It is of course true that some homes were more determined in standing up to pressure than others (and it seems that goes for hospital trusts, with respect to government pressure, as well).

You appear to have willed Public Health England out of existence.

No, the government discharge advice was pretty well contemporaneous with PHE classifying the disease down from a High consequence infectious disease.

Quite who was responsible for which decision and when remains somewhat obscure. I suspect government would like it to remain that way.

williamglenn

Bolsonaro tests positive.

https://twitter.com/portaldaband/status/1280274049877377029?s=21

Nigelb

https://twitter.com/matthewherper/status/1280093039747366917

Dura_Ace

Carnyx said:

Dura_Ace said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/haynesdeborah/status/1280094904228687872

Unless the government cockblocks Wa-We there will be no F-35A wing at Lakenheath so they've got no choice really. They are just not ready countenance the strategic implications of that.

Presumably also the F-35Bs on the big carriers, too?

The F-35Bs are UK owned and operated - although the MoD has slowed purchasing of airframes and, more significantly, spares.

The F-35As at Lakenheatth would be USAFE operated so the UK doesn't have to pay for them, the support or their crews.

RobD

Nigelb said:

https://twitter.com/matthewherper/status/1280093039747366917

Do you remember why everyone thought it was a good idea in the first place?

Stark_Dawning

Probably quite a politically shrewd move from Boris. It will deal with his base, who can now content themselves that it was those ghastly care homes that were to blame all along and not the Great Man himself. His opponents won't be convinced, but just enough doubt will have been sown in the minds of the neutrals. Dom has clearly identified this as a fruitful line of attack from Sir Keir, so they need to do all they can to disrupt and muddy it.

HYUFD

williamglenn said:

Bolsonaro tests positive.

https://twitter.com/portaldaband/status/1280274049877377029?s=21

Perhaps Boris can give him some tips on how to cope

Mexicanpete

rottenborough said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Johnson really is an amoral scumbag

Does he seriously think the public will buy this pile of crap about care homes being to blame?

Boris will be Boris. It's just satire!

Pulpstar

Neil Armstrong's old house on the market for $375k

https://www.chron.com/homes/slideshow/Neil-Armstrong-s-former-El-Lago-home-for-sale-204849.php?fbclid=IwAR3C7VaYIZLkXPyKc253xwMSetLa5W2oR_p2nNQ2F5Lu-0jecDbr9gq-VZ4

CarlottaVance

Philip_Thompson said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Not for the first time, the Guardian headline and the general hyper-indignation don't accurately reflect what Boris is actually quoted as saying, in the very same article. “We discovered too many care homes didn’t really follow the procedures in the way that they could have but we’re learning lessons the whole time. Most important is to fund them properly … but we will also be looking at ways to make sure the care sector long term is properly organised and supported." is not blaming anyone, indeed it points to the government not having understood quickly enough the reality on the ground. and having to learn lessons.

Lord knows there's plenty to criticise the government for, without hyper-ventilating about a marginally less than perfect expression of a not particularly controversial point.

Well put.

If anyone other than Boris had said that it would be pretty uncontroversial to suggest the Care sector needs more government support and finance.

The Guardian also repeats the lie that the NHS discharged patients into Care Homes without testing for COVID. They did test for COVID - just not all patients.

The Isle of Man COVID outbreak was mainly in a Care Home which the government took over after the absentee owners couldn’t get its act together....

CarlottaVance

https://twitter.com/Labourpaul/status/1280165894384226304?s=20

Nigelb

China arrests top Xi critic as it plans crackdown on political foes
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/07/06/asia-pacific/china-professor-xi-jinping-coronavirus/

Flatlander

RobD said:

Nigelb said:

https://twitter.com/matthewherper/status/1280093039747366917

Do you remember why everyone thought it was a good idea in the first place?

Without checking, I'd guess it was because the Chinese said it was.

Nigelb

Philip_Thompson said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Not for the first time, the Guardian headline and the general hyper-indignation don't accurately reflect what Boris is actually quoted as saying, in the very same article. “We discovered too many care homes didn’t really follow the procedures in the way that they could have but we’re learning lessons the whole time. Most important is to fund them properly … but we will also be looking at ways to make sure the care sector long term is properly organised and supported." is not blaming anyone, indeed it points to the government not having understood quickly enough the reality on the ground. and having to learn lessons.

Lord knows there's plenty to criticise the government for, without hyper-ventilating about a marginally less than perfect expression of a not particularly controversial point.

Well put.

If anyone other than Boris had said that it would be pretty uncontroversial to suggest the Care sector needs more government support and finance.

Not sure that’s the bit getting everyone would up...

Nigelb

RobD said:

Nigelb said:

https://twitter.com/matthewherper/status/1280093039747366917

Do you remember why everyone thought it was a good idea in the first place?

It was cheap and available... and someone whose name escapes me hyped the hell out of it.
Along with some eccentric a French doctor.

But running a shitload of poorly designed trials wouldn’t have been a good idea for any drug.

Dura_Ace

HYUFD said:

isam said:

Surely it's Dominic Cummings' fault really?

Probably, Cummings now wants to slash the army and scrap the Royal Marines apparently as if he has not done enough already to annoy traditional Tories this will have the colonels in the shires putting his face on their dartboards!
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1279756872904577025?s=20

Given the left and Remainers all despise the man, if he loses the Tory heartlands too who exactly does he have left bar a few techno geek libertarians and Boris and Gove?

DomWeb is absolutely correct on this. What is the point of 1st Division? It has over half of the army's infantry but will shortly have no artillery, logistics, comms or engineering support as they have been moved to 3rd Division to enable the 2nd STRIKE brigade.

We certainly won't be doing another land war in Asia until Scottish independence is implemented so the army is very unbalanced with far too much unsupported and therefore undeployable infantry.

I doubt Johnson will do it as he seems temperamentally more suited to the traditional "Keeping Up Appearances" defence policy wherein things with zero or negative military value (Red Arrows, BoB flight, etc.) are revered and retained at the expense of actual capabilities.

Flatlander

CarlottaVance said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Not for the first time, the Guardian headline and the general hyper-indignation don't accurately reflect what Boris is actually quoted as saying, in the very same article. “We discovered too many care homes didn’t really follow the procedures in the way that they could have but we’re learning lessons the whole time. Most important is to fund them properly … but we will also be looking at ways to make sure the care sector long term is properly organised and supported." is not blaming anyone, indeed it points to the government not having understood quickly enough the reality on the ground. and having to learn lessons.

Lord knows there's plenty to criticise the government for, without hyper-ventilating about a marginally less than perfect expression of a not particularly controversial point.

Well put.

If anyone other than Boris had said that it would be pretty uncontroversial to suggest the Care sector needs more government support and finance.

The Guardian also repeats the lie that the NHS discharged patients into Care Homes without testing for COVID. They did test for COVID - just not all patients.

The Isle of Man COVID outbreak was mainly in a Care Home which the government took over after the absentee owners couldn’t get its act together....

Having read the quote, I fail to see the fuss.

It is quite obvious the standard procedures for infection control have turned out not to be good enough against Covid. I don't think this was entirely clear at the beginning. Care homes are supposed to be able to deal with infections, so it wasn't necessarily a big assumption to think that they would be able to deal with Covid patients. Norovirus is also pretty deadly in the same setting, and they should all have a plan for it.

It is also obvious (having seen the insides of a few) that there are care homes, and there are care homes. Some are excellent, and others are not. Perhaps the inspections need to be improved so that bad ones can be sorted out, and there need to be more visits from NHS healthcare workers. That's pretty much what the PM seems to be saying.

CorrectHorseBattery

https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1280255418300760065

There is no way in hell this is going to work

RobD

CorrectHorseBattery said:

https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1280255418300760065

There is no way in hell this is going to work

What makes you say that? Waiving a tax isn't super difficult.

DecrepiterJohnL

williamglenn said:

Mayor of Atlanta has Covid-19.

https://twitter.com/KeishaBottoms/status/1280256462674104321

Keisha Lance Bottoms, now with added asymptomatic Covid-19, is a general 25/1 chance for the Democrat VP slot.

dixiedean

CorrectHorseBattery said:

https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1280255418300760065

There is no way in hell this is going to work

Methinks the housing market may not be the key. Oldrhink.

HYUFD

Dura_Ace said:

HYUFD said:

isam said:

Surely it's Dominic Cummings' fault really?

Probably, Cummings now wants to slash the army and scrap the Royal Marines apparently as if he has not done enough already to annoy traditional Tories this will have the colonels in the shires putting his face on their dartboards!
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1279756872904577025?s=20

Given the left and Remainers all despise the man, if he loses the Tory heartlands too who exactly does he have left bar a few techno geek libertarians and Boris and Gove?

DomWeb is absolutely correct on this. What is the point of 1st Division? It has over half of the army's infantry but will shortly have no artillery, logistics, comms or engineering support as they have been moved to 3rd Division to enable the 2nd STRIKE brigade.

We certainly won't be doing another land war in Asia until Scottish independence is implemented so the army is very unbalanced with far too much unsupported and therefore undeployable infantry.

I doubt Johnson will do it as he seems temperamentally more suited to the traditional "Keeping Up Appearances" defence policy wherein things with zero or negative military value (Red Arrows, BoB flight, etc.) are revered and retained at the expense of actual capabilities.

We need groundtroops to protect the Falklands and Gibraltar, to keep our NATO commitments to maintain international security and contain Putin and to fulfil our peacekeeping obligations as a UN Security Council member.

Plus of course to maintain order in Scotland in the event of illegal indyrefs

DecrepiterJohnL

Susan Rice of previous thread fame, was at Oxford at the same time as Boris Johnson. Rice was a Rhodes Scholar from 1986 and Boris graduated in 1987.

DecrepiterJohnL

HYUFD said:

Dura_Ace said:

HYUFD said:

isam said:

Surely it's Dominic Cummings' fault really?

Probably, Cummings now wants to slash the army and scrap the Royal Marines apparently as if he has not done enough already to annoy traditional Tories this will have the colonels in the shires putting his face on their dartboards!
https://twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1279756872904577025?s=20

Given the left and Remainers all despise the man, if he loses the Tory heartlands too who exactly does he have left bar a few techno geek libertarians and Boris and Gove?

DomWeb is absolutely correct on this. What is the point of 1st Division? It has over half of the army's infantry but will shortly have no artillery, logistics, comms or engineering support as they have been moved to 3rd Division to enable the 2nd STRIKE brigade.

We certainly won't be doing another land war in Asia until Scottish independence is implemented so the army is very unbalanced with far too much unsupported and therefore undeployable infantry.

I doubt Johnson will do it as he seems temperamentally more suited to the traditional "Keeping Up Appearances" defence policy wherein things with zero or negative military value (Red Arrows, BoB flight, etc.) are revered and retained at the expense of actual capabilities.

We need groundtroops to protect the Falklands and Gibraltar, to keep our NATO commitments to maintain international security and contain Putin and to fulfil our peacekeeping obligations as a UN Security Council member.

Plus of course to maintain order in Scotland in the event of illegal indyrefs

The Army had 102,000 soldiers in 2010; 10 years of Tory cuts later and there will not be enough left "rebellious Scots to crush" let alone contain Putin. We shall need half the remaining army just to walk up and down in tall, furry hats outside Buckingham Palace.

Andy_JS

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Susan Rice of previous thread fame, was at Oxford at the same time as Boris Johnson. Rice was a Rhodes Scholar from 1986 and Boris graduated in 1987.

Rhodes has been cancelled.

SeaShantyIrish2

NEWS FLASH - SCOTUS RULES STATES MAY REMOVE OR PUNISH "FAITHLESS" PRESIDENTIAL ELECTORS.

One of the cases originated in WA State, the other was from Colorado.

ANOTHER NEWS FLASH - FORMER GOV > AMBASSADOR > PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFUL JOHN HUNTSMAN LOSES UTAH REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR TO LT GOV SPENCER COX.

Very close result. Note that Huntsman contracted Covid but recovered. Also note it looks like he wore out his welcome, perhaps due to his lame 2016 presidential effort.

Andy_JS

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

NEWS FLASH - SCOTUS RULES STATES MAY REMOVE OR PUNISH "FAITHLESS" PRESIDENTIAL ELECTORS.

One of the cases originated in WA State, the other was from Colorado.

ANOTHER NEWS FLASH - FORMER GOV > AMBASSADOR > PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFUL JOHN HUNTSMAN LOSES UTAH REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR TO LT GOV SPENCER COX.

Very close result. Note that Huntsman contracted Covid but recovered. Also note it looks like he wore out his welcome, perhaps due to his lame 2016 presidential effort.

Interesting, especially about faithless electors. Trump lost two last time IIRC.

Dura_Ace

HYUFD said:

We need groundtroops to protect the Falklands and Gibraltar, to keep our NATO commitments to maintain international security and contain Putin and to fulfil our peacekeeping obligations as a UN Security Council member.

Assuming all those things are worth doing the point is: you can't use 1st Div for any of them without pulling support units out of other formations.

Troops have to be transported, fed, armed and protected. Infantry on its own without those supporting functions has very limited applications.