Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
I hate to agree but I do. What do I like about the pub? Two usual scenarios for me, one food based the other drink based.
Food based is a pub lunch / tea with the family. We all eat, a couple of pints then home. As social distancing means we can't do that then no point pining for it. And its not just pubs - the entirety of IFD & OOH (eating out) is screwed. And with respect to twatty coffee bars charging £stupid and polluting teh world with non-recyclable cups thats a Good Thing.
Drink based is beers with the boys. We've done enough Zoom nights to know it can work. Indeed we've done more Zoom nights than we would have had actual nights out. There are some brilliant micro pubs here in Stockton-on-Tees and I feel for them, but the cash that a night out in them costs is daft. No point going if any social distancing is required (will we even get in? and if so do we have to space apart?). I have a couple of "I'll tell you all about it over a pint when we can" chats due, but if we can't secrete ourselves off in 'Conspiracy Corner' whats the point?
People will go to the pub when they reopen - course they will. In greatly reduced numbers and that as you say will be the death of so many of them. Good News for Tim Gammon and his Wetherspoons empire, less good for anyone else.
For better or worse Wetherspoons will be hit as hard, their business model is based on volume. Those days are gone for all the reasons you highlight
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
That is one of the bleakest postings I have ever read on PB.
I'm afraid its reality that all of us in the pub/restaurant game are resigned to
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
I hate to agree but I do. What do I like about the pub? Two usual scenarios for me, one food based the other drink based.
Food based is a pub lunch / tea with the family. We all eat, a couple of pints then home. As social distancing means we can't do that then no point pining for it. And its not just pubs - the entirety of IFD & OOH (eating out) is screwed. And with respect to twatty coffee bars charging £stupid and polluting teh world with non-recyclable cups thats a Good Thing.
Drink based is beers with the boys. We've done enough Zoom nights to know it can work. Indeed we've done more Zoom nights than we would have had actual nights out. There are some brilliant micro pubs here in Stockton-on-Tees and I feel for them, but the cash that a night out in them costs is daft. No point going if any social distancing is required (will we even get in? and if so do we have to space apart?). I have a couple of "I'll tell you all about it over a pint when we can" chats due, but if we can't secrete ourselves off in 'Conspiracy Corner' whats the point?
People will go to the pub when they reopen - course they will. In greatly reduced numbers and that as you say will be the death of so many of them. Good News for Tim Gammon and his Wetherspoons empire, less good for anyone else.
Takeaway coffee going strong, I suspect that will survive, maybe even thrive. Pubswise my guess would be those with gardens do a bit better.
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Dunno, there seems to have been loads of eye blinking and mind losing over the statue toppling. I think Visigoths and the downfall of Western civilisation have been mentioned
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
I hate to agree but I do. What do I like about the pub? Two usual scenarios for me, one food based the other drink based.
Food based is a pub lunch / tea with the family. We all eat, a couple of pints then home. As social distancing means we can't do that then no point pining for it. And its not just pubs - the entirety of IFD & OOH (eating out) is screwed. And with respect to twatty coffee bars charging £stupid and polluting teh world with non-recyclable cups thats a Good Thing.
Drink based is beers with the boys. We've done enough Zoom nights to know it can work. Indeed we've done more Zoom nights than we would have had actual nights out. There are some brilliant micro pubs here in Stockton-on-Tees and I feel for them, but the cash that a night out in them costs is daft. No point going if any social distancing is required (will we even get in? and if so do we have to space apart?). I have a couple of "I'll tell you all about it over a pint when we can" chats due, but if we can't secrete ourselves off in 'Conspiracy Corner' whats the point?
People will go to the pub when they reopen - course they will. In greatly reduced numbers and that as you say will be the death of so many of them. Good News for Tim Gammon and his Wetherspoons empire, less good for anyone else.
Takeaway coffee going strong, I suspect that will survive, maybe even thrive. Pubswise my guess would be those with gardens do a bit better.
Slightly worrying news from the temporarily hospitalised other half.
She showed some virus symptoms about ten days ago and although these worsened for a while they then lessened a bit and by the time she got to take a test she seemed practically better. The test showed negative but I didn't believe it and nor did our mutual friend, a doctor of some 30 years experience. So we packed her off to the Royal Free for further tests and sure enough they confirmed she had indeed had the virus and it was still knocking around. They admitted her, but mainly to deal with an associated bacterial infection of the lungs and to administer some blood -thinning agents. We think she will be out today and all should be well with her again shortly.
That's not the worrying bit. It was the remarks of the consultant. Her symptoms (basically extreme and unpredictable temperature fluctuations) were kind of different to what they have been witnessing generally during the epidimic. He is classifying it it as an example of "...the new wave".
This is not really what any of us want to hear.
Keep your hats on folks, but stay alert.
Edit: I have to walk the dog now but will be back later to field responses/enquiries, if any. Laters.
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
I hate to agree but I do. What do I like about the pub? Two usual scenarios for me, one food based the other drink based.
Food based is a pub lunch / tea with the family. We all eat, a couple of pints then home. As social distancing means we can't do that then no point pining for it. And its not just pubs - the entirety of IFD & OOH (eating out) is screwed. And with respect to twatty coffee bars charging £stupid and polluting teh world with non-recyclable cups thats a Good Thing.
Drink based is beers with the boys. We've done enough Zoom nights to know it can work. Indeed we've done more Zoom nights than we would have had actual nights out. There are some brilliant micro pubs here in Stockton-on-Tees and I feel for them, but the cash that a night out in them costs is daft. No point going if any social distancing is required (will we even get in? and if so do we have to space apart?). I have a couple of "I'll tell you all about it over a pint when we can" chats due, but if we can't secrete ourselves off in 'Conspiracy Corner' whats the point?
People will go to the pub when they reopen - course they will. In greatly reduced numbers and that as you say will be the death of so many of them. Good News for Tim Gammon and his Wetherspoons empire, less good for anyone else.
In some ways this might help pubs. People who wouldn't normally go to the pub might have been getting takeaways and say they will definitely (!?) support the pub on reopening.
It turns out that my feelings on the breakdown of rule of law weren't isolated. Lots of messaging between friends and family last night about how this wasn't the right way to effect change and that the statue should be put back up and it's removal needs to be brought by democratic or legal means.
A message from my cousin was particularly poignant "the rules exist to protect people like us, breaking them leads to nothing good for minorities".
Is it the over strong unions? Is it that too many furloughed parents are having a nice summer? Is it just that the government has so scared us to death that parents are genuinely terrified? Or is it ministers who are terrified?
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
That is one of the bleakest postings I have ever read on PB.
Green king sold out for billions to some hong kong based lot just before the virus iirc.. talk about timing !!!
The local Greedy King hostelry closed down at the beginning of the disaster and didn't, last time I walked past, look like opening any time soon. One of the other two pubs in our small town is planning for 'opening with distancing' ASAP and the other has been doing what I hope and believe is a good trade in excellent take-away meals. It might well open it's gardens; would I would have thought, be possible. Our local small brewery is keeping going with off sales, including on-line.
Government increasing losing the plot totally on unlocking. Looks like a dog's breakfast of personal ministerial whims rather than a plan.
Schools not to reopen for all primary as planned. Hancock now talking about "September at earliest" for secondary.
If we get an autumn wave then we could see many pupils not being in school until next spring. That would be an entire year at home.
Yet we plan to reopen shops, beer gardens, theme parks etc etc. Even talk of holidays in EU from July.
I don't think those things are necessarily contradictory. I suspect the chances of the virus spreading outside is very small. Unfortunately schools have to work indoors. I don't see why businesses and consumers should suffer just because we think they are less important than kids going to school.
For schools, I wonder if something like alternating weeks will be needed for some time whereby half the kids go one week and half the kids go the next? It won't be ideal, but we mustn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Where is the evidence that kids pass this virus on? Or even get it themselves in all but a minuscule minority?
Or have I missed something?
None whatsoever. Schools should never have been closed.
I understand closing them was only put in at the last minute.
Of course there is evidence that children can both get the virus - the ONS survey has found no statistically significant differences between the percentages infected in different age groups - and pass it on.
But facts are hardly going to stand in the way of opinions.
@AlastairMeeks is right. The current rules are worse than no rules in some areas because they are so ludicrous that no-one respects them or takes them seriously.
Two households should be able to meet, indoors. You should be able to stay overnight with your parents. You should be able to have sex with your partner. Restaurants and cafes should be able to open. Hotels too. Common-sense will prevail.
I have stopped taking notice of most of the rules. I now simply do whatever I like plus 2m social distancing with the public. With my family, I don't even do that. I touch their back, shoulder or arm, but I don't kiss or hug them tight. I won't be alone in making my own judgements.
The whole way through this crisis this Government has been slow, pedestrian, uncreative and inflexible in its thinking.
That comes from the top.
The virus spreads fastest indoors within households. So it is important that families do not mingle indoors.
@AlastairMeeks is right. The current rules are worse than no rules in some areas because they are so ludicrous that no-one respects them or takes them seriously.
Two households should be able to meet, indoors. You should be able to stay overnight with your parents. You should be able to have sex with your partner. Restaurants and cafes should be able to open. Hotels too. Common-sense will prevail.
I have stopped taking notice of most of the rules. I now simply do whatever I like plus 2m social distancing with the public. With my family, I don't even do that. I touch their back, shoulder or arm, but I don't kiss or hug them tight. I won't be alone in making my own judgements.
The whole way through this crisis this Government has been slow, pedestrian, uncreative and inflexible in its thinking.
That comes from the top.
The virus spreads fastest indoors within households. So it is important that families do not mingle indoors.
Actually I think he should go (Off to a museum). Slighting many of England's best historic castles was unforgiveable.
I rather think he got unfairly blamed for the inevitable consequences of the Stuarts and their malignant allies. And for many a ruin that had nothing to do with the Cromwellian campaigns.
You should see what Henry VIII did to abbeys - and to the North of England and the Scottish Borders. Does he have a statue anywhere? googles ... yes,. for instance at Barts Hospital and King's Cambridge ...
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
I hate to agree but I do. What do I like about the pub? Two usual scenarios for me, one food based the other drink based.
Food based is a pub lunch / tea with the family. We all eat, a couple of pints then home. As social distancing means we can't do that then no point pining for it. And its not just pubs - the entirety of IFD & OOH (eating out) is screwed. And with respect to twatty coffee bars charging £stupid and polluting teh world with non-recyclable cups thats a Good Thing.
Drink based is beers with the boys. We've done enough Zoom nights to know it can work. Indeed we've done more Zoom nights than we would have had actual nights out. There are some brilliant micro pubs here in Stockton-on-Tees and I feel for them, but the cash that a night out in them costs is daft. No point going if any social distancing is required (will we even get in? and if so do we have to space apart?). I have a couple of "I'll tell you all about it over a pint when we can" chats due, but if we can't secrete ourselves off in 'Conspiracy Corner' whats the point?
People will go to the pub when they reopen - course they will. In greatly reduced numbers and that as you say will be the death of so many of them. Good News for Tim Gammon and his Wetherspoons empire, less good for anyone else.
In some ways this might help pubs. People who wouldn't normally go to the pub might have been getting takeaways and say they will definitely (!?) support the pub on reopening.
I intend to to quadruple my pub attendance upon their re-opening. Far from converting me into one of the sit-at-home-drinking-supermarket-tinnies-while-watching-Netflix crowd, the lockdown has persuaded me never to stay in again.
Actually I think he should go (Off to a museum). Slighting many of England's best historic castles was unforgiveable.
I rather think he got unfairly blamed for the inevitable consequences of the Stuarts and their malignant allies. And for many a ruin that had nothing to do with the Cromwellian campaigns.
You should see what Henry VIII did to abbeys - and to the North of England and the Scottish Borders. Does he have a statue anywhere? googles ... yes,. for instance at Barts Hospital and King's Cambridge ...
He has to stay so that Partridge fans can say "Henry VIII. He was a shit!" whenever they encounter a painting or statue of him.
Government increasing losing the plot totally on unlocking. Looks like a dog's breakfast of personal ministerial whims rather than a plan.
Schools not to reopen for all primary as planned. Hancock now talking about "September at earliest" for secondary.
If we get an autumn wave then we could see many pupils not being in school until next spring. That would be an entire year at home.
Yet we plan to reopen shops, beer gardens, theme parks etc etc. Even talk of holidays in EU from July.
I don't think those things are necessarily contradictory. I suspect the chances of the virus spreading outside is very small. Unfortunately schools have to work indoors. I don't see why businesses and consumers should suffer just because we think they are less important than kids going to school.
For schools, I wonder if something like alternating weeks will be needed for some time whereby half the kids go one week and half the kids go the next? It won't be ideal, but we mustn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Where is the evidence that kids pass this virus on? Or even get it themselves in all but a minuscule minority?
Or have I missed something?
None whatsoever. Schools should never have been closed.
I understand closing them was only put in at the last minute.
In Glasgow before the lockdown parents were keeping their kids off school at a 30-50% rate with concern about Covid-19 given as the reason, that was with the daily death rate in the dozens. What do you think the absentee rate would have been by the end of April if the situation had not been formalised?
Government increasing losing the plot totally on unlocking. Looks like a dog's breakfast of personal ministerial whims rather than a plan.
Schools not to reopen for all primary as planned. Hancock now talking about "September at earliest" for secondary.
If we get an autumn wave then we could see many pupils not being in school until next spring. That would be an entire year at home.
Yet we plan to reopen shops, beer gardens, theme parks etc etc. Even talk of holidays in EU from July.
I don't think those things are necessarily contradictory. I suspect the chances of the virus spreading outside is very small. Unfortunately schools have to work indoors. I don't see why businesses and consumers should suffer just because we think they are less important than kids going to school.
For schools, I wonder if something like alternating weeks will be needed for some time whereby half the kids go one week and half the kids go the next? It won't be ideal, but we mustn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Where is the evidence that kids pass this virus on? Or even get it themselves in all but a minuscule minority?
Or have I missed something?
None whatsoever. Schools should never have been closed.
I understand closing them was only put in at the last minute.
I believe German schools have been open for weeks now. Happy to be corrected.
Well, it varies a bit from state to state. But schools (as in England) stayed open for the children of essential workers, and otherwise closed, along with kindergartens, in the middle of March, generally a week before in England I believe.
Here in NRW, at the end of April they reopened only for children taking the Abitur this year. Early in May they reopened for a couple of other years (secondary school children taking the Abitur next year, and final year primary school children). 10 days ago they reopened kindergartens for final year kindergarten children (which means 5/6 year olds), and since yesterday for all kindergarten children. From 15th June (in NRW) they are reopening for all primary school children every day (earlier they had some kind of shift system).
Schools/pupils with special needs have been back for a few weeks.
The other secondary school years I think are also back at school part-time with a shift-system.
Actually I think he should go (Off to a museum). Slighting many of England's best historic castles was unforgiveable.
I rather think he got unfairly blamed for the inevitable consequences of the Stuarts and their malignant allies. And for many a ruin that had nothing to do with the Cromwellian campaigns.
You should see what Henry VIII did to abbeys - and to the North of England and the Scottish Borders. Does he have a statue anywhere? googles ... yes,. for instance at Barts Hospital and King's Cambridge ...
He has to stay so that Partridge fans can say "Henry VIII. He was a shit!" whenever they encounter a painting or statue of him.
Oh? What's this about Partridge please? A new one on me ...
Actually I think he should go (Off to a museum). Slighting many of England's best historic castles was unforgiveable.
I rather think he got unfairly blamed for the inevitable consequences of the Stuarts and their malignant allies. And for many a ruin that had nothing to do with the Cromwellian campaigns.
You should see what Henry VIII did to abbeys - and to the North of England and the Scottish Borders. Does he have a statue anywhere? googles ... yes,. for instance at Barts Hospital and King's Cambridge ...
BTW, does anyone know what is happening in Sweden?
4 German Bundesländer have just introduced quarantine for arrivals from Sweden because of a rise in case numbers last week. But the Swedes seem to be saying it is just an accounting thing because they had to add some cases that had been missed or something?
Actually I think he should go (Off to a museum). Slighting many of England's best historic castles was unforgiveable.
I rather think he got unfairly blamed for the inevitable consequences of the Stuarts and their malignant allies. And for many a ruin that had nothing to do with the Cromwellian campaigns.
You should see what Henry VIII did to abbeys - and to the North of England and the Scottish Borders. Does he have a statue anywhere? googles ... yes,. for instance at Barts Hospital and King's Cambridge ...
I am aware but am an Old Coventrian
*googles* - ah, yes. Albeit founded with the loot from the monasteries ...
Actually I think he should go (Off to a museum). Slighting many of England's best historic castles was unforgiveable.
I rather think he got unfairly blamed for the inevitable consequences of the Stuarts and their malignant allies. And for many a ruin that had nothing to do with the Cromwellian campaigns.
You should see what Henry VIII did to abbeys - and to the North of England and the Scottish Borders. Does he have a statue anywhere? googles ... yes,. for instance at Barts Hospital and King's Cambridge ...
He has to stay so that Partridge fans can say "Henry VIII. He was a shit!" whenever they encounter a painting or statue of him.
Oh? What's this about Partridge please? A new one on me ...
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
I hate to agree but I do. What do I like about the pub? Two usual scenarios for me, one food based the other drink based.
Food based is a pub lunch / tea with the family. We all eat, a couple of pints then home. As social distancing means we can't do that then no point pining for it. And its not just pubs - the entirety of IFD & OOH (eating out) is screwed. And with respect to twatty coffee bars charging £stupid and polluting teh world with non-recyclable cups thats a Good Thing.
Drink based is beers with the boys. We've done enough Zoom nights to know it can work. Indeed we've done more Zoom nights than we would have had actual nights out. There are some brilliant micro pubs here in Stockton-on-Tees and I feel for them, but the cash that a night out in them costs is daft. No point going if any social distancing is required (will we even get in? and if so do we have to space apart?). I have a couple of "I'll tell you all about it over a pint when we can" chats due, but if we can't secrete ourselves off in 'Conspiracy Corner' whats the point?
People will go to the pub when they reopen - course they will. In greatly reduced numbers and that as you say will be the death of so many of them. Good News for Tim Gammon and his Wetherspoons empire, less good for anyone else.
In some ways this might help pubs. People who wouldn't normally go to the pub might have been getting takeaways and say they will definitely (!?) support the pub on reopening.
I intend to to quadruple my pub attendance upon their re-opening. Far from converting me into one of the sit-at-home-drinking-supermarket-tinnies-while-watching-Netflix crowd, the lockdown has persuaded me never to stay in again.
Me too. My local has been turning out magnificent burgers and fish and chips every Friday and Saturday for marginal profit I'm sure and yes I will go much more than I used to when it reopens.
That didn't take long. I am not a Cromwell fan but leave him alone, or they will be burning down Sidney Sussex after destroying Oriel.
Is there a single statue that everyone could agree on? I very much doubt it. Maybe when the Queen has one.
Haven't we got more important things to worry about, expend energy on?
I think once you have accounted for: Racism, imperialism, being iffy about gays, patriarchalism, anti semitism, trans issues, religious oppressiveness, slavery and the servant problem you won't have much left.
Will the Taliban Tendency allow me the paintings of Vermeer and Beethoven's sonatas? No point in asking for the Bible is there?
BTW, does anyone know what is happening in Sweden?
4 German Bundesländer have just introduced quarantine for arrivals from Sweden because of a rise in case numbers last week. But the Swedes seem to be saying it is just an accounting thing because they had to add some cases that had been missed or something?
I think it's additional reporting plus their cases not decreasing as they have done elsewhere in Europe, even here.
Government increasing losing the plot totally on unlocking. Looks like a dog's breakfast of personal ministerial whims rather than a plan.
Schools not to reopen for all primary as planned. Hancock now talking about "September at earliest" for secondary.
If we get an autumn wave then we could see many pupils not being in school until next spring. That would be an entire year at home.
Yet we plan to reopen shops, beer gardens, theme parks etc etc. Even talk of holidays in EU from July.
I don't think those things are necessarily contradictory. I suspect the chances of the virus spreading outside is very small. Unfortunately schools have to work indoors. I don't see why businesses and consumers should suffer just because we think they are less important than kids going to school.
For schools, I wonder if something like alternating weeks will be needed for some time whereby half the kids go one week and half the kids go the next? It won't be ideal, but we mustn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Where is the evidence that kids pass this virus on? Or even get it themselves in all but a minuscule minority?
Or have I missed something?
None whatsoever. Schools should never have been closed.
I understand closing them was only put in at the last minute.
Of course there is evidence that children can both get the virus - the ONS survey has found no statistically significant differences between the percentages infected in different age groups - and pass it on.
I agree, they can get the virus, but they very rarely suffer from it. They are about as likely to get struck by lightning as to die from COVID, if they have no comorbities.
Whether they pass it on to any significant extent is not clear. A study of one 9-year old boy in the French Alps had the boy visiting three schools whilst symptomatic, but the researchers found no evidence of transmission of the virus to other pupils in follow-up interviews and testing. There are lots of similar studies ongoing.
But until there is overwhelming evidence that children are transmitting the virus and causing a significant number of deaths overall, schools should be open, just as they are in most other European countries.
Though I know, as you say, facts don't get in the way of your opinions.
That didn't take long. I am not a Cromwell fan but leave him alone, or they will be burning down Sidney Sussex after destroying Oriel.
Is there a single statue that everyone could agree on? I very much doubt it. Maybe when the Queen has one.
Haven't we got more important things to worry about, expend energy on?
I think once you have accounted for: Racism, imperialism, being iffy about gays, patriarchalism, anti semitism, trans issues, religious oppressiveness, slavery and the servant problem you won't have much left.
Will the Taliban Tendency allow me the paintings of Vermeer and Beethoven's sonatas? No point in asking for the Bible is there?
The only way to cut this Gordian knot is a high-tech hologram that picks up the observer's brainwaves and allows them to see an exact image of themselves.
It will be called the 'Narcissus Ego'. It will never be vandalised...
This is a case of reductio ad absurdum. I really don't know what Adonis is playing at by conflating Colston with the likes of Cromwell.
There was every case for pulling down the Bristol statue and I for one am glad that something so insulting to so many has gone. The man was part of a company responsible for transporting 80,000 slaves and probably causing the death of the same number who didn't make it alive. It was erected in the late 19th Century due to the funding of its sponsor who stepped in following the failure of a public appeal, at a time when slavery was already utterly abhorrent, so it didn't really represent opinion even then. The fact that those casting around for other examples are finding it hard to identify anything else so abhorrent rather makes the point that the Bristol statue was pretty unique. Shame on the authorities for not getting rid of it years ago. Just occasionally, very occasionally, it's right for the public to intervene when the authorities fail so spectacularly.
The only issue that I have with its removal is the fact that the crowd should not have gathered in the midst of an infectious deadly pandemic. So I would have approved of the manner of its removal 6 months ago, but not at this precise moment when those gathering across the UK risk infecting themselves and others giving new legs to the pandemic. People will die as a result of the current wave of protests, including many others who did not take part. I think it is that, not the fact of removal, that limited support for the action to just 13%.
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
I hate to agree but I do. What do I like about the pub? Two usual scenarios for me, one food based the other drink based.
Food based is a pub lunch / tea with the family. We all eat, a couple of pints then home. As social distancing means we can't do that then no point pining for it. And its not just pubs - the entirety of IFD & OOH (eating out) is screwed. And with respect to twatty coffee bars charging £stupid and polluting teh world with non-recyclable cups thats a Good Thing.
Drink based is beers with the boys. We've done enough Zoom nights to know it can work. Indeed we've done more Zoom nights than we would have had actual nights out. There are some brilliant micro pubs here in Stockton-on-Tees and I feel for them, but the cash that a night out in them costs is daft. No point going if any social distancing is required (will we even get in? and if so do we have to space apart?). I have a couple of "I'll tell you all about it over a pint when we can" chats due, but if we can't secrete ourselves off in 'Conspiracy Corner' whats the point?
People will go to the pub when they reopen - course they will. In greatly reduced numbers and that as you say will be the death of so many of them. Good News for Tim Gammon and his Wetherspoons empire, less good for anyone else.
In some ways this might help pubs. People who wouldn't normally go to the pub might have been getting takeaways and say they will definitely (!?) support the pub on reopening.
I intend to to quadruple my pub attendance upon their re-opening. Far from converting me into one of the sit-at-home-drinking-supermarket-tinnies-while-watching-Netflix crowd, the lockdown has persuaded me never to stay in again.
Me too. My local has been turning out magnificent burgers and fish and chips every Friday and Saturday for marginal profit I'm sure and yes I will go much more than I used to when it reopens.
The local gastropub is doing a pretty good home delivery trade. Their sourdough loaves are quite exceptional. The pub itself is much as Cyclefree describes her local - small rooms; low ceilings; customers cheeck by jowl. The last time I went in, some time before lockdown, I beat a hasty retreat, realising I'd be inhaling the exhalations of a score or more, all the time I was inside...
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
That is one of the bleakest postings I have ever read on PB.
The pub game and the eating out game has been over for a long time for a lot of people. Its been out of their price range for the best part of a decade. Probably unusual on here as most of my friends are on average wage or less but I can say none of them consider going to a bar or restaurant these days because of cost. Even in the 00's it was mostly reserved for occasions such as birthdays. Now its round someones house with some beer from the supermarket
That's swings of 8.5% and 6.5% away from Trump in Oklahoma and Kentucky. Senior retired Republicans are queuing up to be negative about Trump or even endorse Biden. But the White House is trailing a big "unity" address to the nation this week. The Donald, he can do anything. From the great polariser to the great unifier? Something "great" anyway. He's the greatest and realest, and nothing like a loser or a fake. He can be the unifiers' unifier if he chooses. Best of luck with that. Not sure I've ever seen a US leader so busted this far out.
Syria and Afghanistan are having culture wars. Centrist liberals and religious moderates get squeezed out. Libraries get burned. Minorities murdered. There's probably other stuff too.
This is a case of reductio ad absurdum. I really don't know what Adonis is playing at by conflating Colston with the likes of Cromwell.
There was every case for pulling down the Bristol statue and I for one am glad that something so insulting to so many has gone. The man was part of a company responsible for transporting 80,000 slaves and probably causing the death of the same number who didn't make it alive. It was erected in the late 19th Century due to the funding of its sponsor who stepped in following the failure of a public appeal, at a time when slavery was already utterly abhorrent, so it didn't really represent opinion even then. The fact that those casting around for other examples are finding it hard to identify anything else so abhorrent rather makes the point that the Bristol statue was pretty unique. Shame on the authorities for not getting rid of it years ago. Just occasionally, very occasionally, it's right for the public to intervene when the authorities fail so spectacularly.
The only issue that I have with its removal is the fact that the crowd should not have gathered in the midst of an infectious deadly pandemic. So I would have approved of the manner of its removal 6 months ago, but not at this precise moment when those gathering across the UK risk infecting themselves and others giving new legs to the pandemic. People will die as a result of the current wave of protests, including many others who did not take part. I think it is that, not the fact of removal, that limited support for the action to just 13%.
Andrew Adonis is just......weird.
He's even unhappy with a statute of Gladstone (I guess, because the British Empire expanded under his watch).
This is a case of reductio ad absurdum. I really don't know what Adonis is playing at by conflating Colston with the likes of Cromwell.
There was every case for pulling down the Bristol statue and I for one am glad that something so insulting to so many has gone. The man was part of a company responsible for transporting 80,000 slaves and probably causing the death of the same number who didn't make it alive. It was erected in the late 19th Century due to the funding of its sponsor who stepped in following the failure of a public appeal, at a time when slavery was already utterly abhorrent, so it didn't really represent opinion even then. The fact that those casting around for other examples are finding it hard to identify anything else so abhorrent rather makes the point that the Bristol statue was pretty unique. Shame on the authorities for not getting rid of it years ago. Just occasionally, very occasionally, it's right for the public to intervene when the authorities fail so spectacularly.
The only issue that I have with its removal is the fact that the crowd should not have gathered in the midst of an infectious deadly pandemic. So I would have approved of the manner of its removal 6 months ago, but not at this precise moment when those gathering across the UK risk infecting themselves and others giving new legs to the pandemic. People will die as a result of the current wave of protests, including many others who did not take part. I think it is that, not the fact of removal, that limited support for the action to just 13%.
On your last point, there is a vicious irony in supposedly righteous people marching in support of lives and while doing so spreading a disease that will take many more than if they'd just sat on arse at home.
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
That is one of the bleakest postings I have ever read on PB.
I'm afraid its reality that all of us in the pub/restaurant game are resigned to
Not all, I hope, but I fear you are close to the truth for the next year or so. And that is the problem, as you simply can't put a business into stasis for so long. The local pub I mentioned above is probably scraping a living at the moment, possibly even slightly better than that, but they will be an exception rather than the rule.
Government should fund state schools adequately so they can do the same. If it won't do that it should prevent private schools from reopening until state schools can too, or ensure that university entrance requirements are adjusted to take this additional contextual factor into account.
Government increasing losing the plot totally on unlocking. Looks like a dog's breakfast of personal ministerial whims rather than a plan.
Schools not to reopen for all primary as planned. Hancock now talking about "September at earliest" for secondary.
If we get an autumn wave then we could see many pupils not being in school until next spring. That would be an entire year at home.
Yet we plan to reopen shops, beer gardens, theme parks etc etc. Even talk of holidays in EU from July.
I don't think those things are necessarily contradictory. I suspect the chances of the virus spreading outside is very small. Unfortunately schools have to work indoors. I don't see why businesses and consumers should suffer just because we think they are less important than kids going to school.
For schools, I wonder if something like alternating weeks will be needed for some time whereby half the kids go one week and half the kids go the next? It won't be ideal, but we mustn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Where is the evidence that kids pass this virus on? Or even get it themselves in all but a minuscule minority?
Or have I missed something?
None whatsoever. Schools should never have been closed.
I understand closing them was only put in at the last minute.
Of course there is evidence that children can both get the virus - the ONS survey has found no statistically significant differences between the percentages infected in different age groups - and pass it on.
I agree, they can get the virus, but they very rarely suffer from it. They are about as likely to get struck by lightning as to die from COVID, if they have no comorbities.
Whether they pass it on to any significant extent is not clear. A study of one 9-year old boy in the French Alps had the boy visiting three schools whilst symptomatic, but the researchers found no evidence of transmission of the virus to other pupils in follow-up interviews and testing. There are lots of similar studies ongoing.
But until there is overwhelming evidence that children are transmitting the virus and causing a significant number of deaths overall, schools should be open, just as they are in most other European countries.
Though I know, as you say, facts don't get in the way of your opinions.
The facts are equivocal.
Evidence summary for SARS-CoV-2 viral load and infectivity over the course of an infection https://www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/files/2020-06/Evidence-Summary_SARS-CoV-2-duration-of-infectivity.pdf ...Based on a limited number of studies which have compared findings between children and adults, there appears to be no difference between children and adults in terms of viral load or duration of virus detection....
The government decision, announced Wednesday evening, comes after more than 200 cases have been confirmed among students and staff at various schools. At least 244 students and school employees have tested positive for the coronavirus, according to the Ministry of Education. At least 42 kindergartens and schools have been shuttered indefinitely. More than 6,800 students and teachers are in home quarantine by government order.
It's an abrupt reversal of the post-pandemic spirit in Israel as officials lifted most remaining coronavirus restrictions last week. With fewer than 300 deaths in Israel, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had declared victory in early May over the pandemic and last week told Israelis to go to restaurants and "enjoy yourselves."...
And Adonis must know about the statue of James II outside the National Gallery and the equestrian one of Charles I on the other side of Trafalgar Square too.
Colston's company - 80000 slaves? Pah! That's nothing on the Royal African Company.
Incidentally a lot of the Leverhulme Trust money comes from what was slavery in all but name in the Belgian Congo where William Lever had a brutal fiefdom.
And Adonis must know about the statue of James II outside the National Gallery and the equestrian one of Charles I on the other side of Trafalgar Square too.
Colston's company - 80000 slaves? Pah! That's nothing on the Royal African Company...
Charles, for one, got his comeuppance during his lifetime, so we might grant him a pass...
Syria and Afghanistan are having culture wars. Centrist liberals and religious moderates get squeezed out. Libraries get burned. Minorities murdered. There's probably other stuff too.
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
That is one of the bleakest postings I have ever read on PB.
The pub game and the eating out game has been over for a long time for a lot of people. Its been out of their price range for the best part of a decade. Probably unusual on here as most of my friends are on average wage or less but I can say none of them consider going to a bar or restaurant these days because of cost. Even in the 00's it was mostly reserved for occasions such as birthdays. Now its round someones house with some beer from the supermarket
That's a very valuable perspective and I can absolutely see that. Perhaps pubs and pub landlords will be forced to do something to address that.
And Adonis must know about the statue of James II outside the National Gallery and the equestrian one of Charles I on the other side of Trafalgar Square too.
Colston's company - 80000 slaves? Pah! That's nothing on the Royal African Company.
Incidentally a lot of the Leverhulme Trust money comes from what was slavery in all but name in the Belgian Congo where William Lever had a brutal fiefdom.
Charles II and, it must be said, Cromwell headed governemnts which sent plenty of indentured servants to the West Indies - as good as slaves: Irish and Scottish PoWs from the Wars of the Three Kingdoms and the Wars of the Covenant.
And Adonis must know about the statue of James II outside the National Gallery and the equestrian one of Charles I on the other side of Trafalgar Square too.
Colston's company - 80000 slaves? Pah! That's nothing on the Royal African Company.
Incidentally a lot of the Leverhulme Trust money comes from what was slavery in all but name in the Belgian Congo where William Lever had a brutal fiefdom.
Raze Leverburgh to the ground!
Actually reverting to its original name of Obbe might be more proportional.
I have to say that great care needs to be taken when trashing the reputations of those the country hold dear as Kay Burley did to Churchill this morning. The BLM have every right to see Colston removed (though legally). I support their cause and admire those who stand in the way of those who want to turn violent in the marches.
The BLM is far more important for it to be hijacked by the far left and anarchists with different agendas
However, if the country is not careful this could lead to even deeper divisions that is absolutely not anyone should want.
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
That is one of the bleakest postings I have ever read on PB.
The pub game and the eating out game has been over for a long time for a lot of people. Its been out of their price range for the best part of a decade. Probably unusual on here as most of my friends are on average wage or less but I can say none of them consider going to a bar or restaurant these days because of cost. Even in the 00's it was mostly reserved for occasions such as birthdays. Now its round someones house with some beer from the supermarket
That's a very valuable perspective and I can absolutely see that. Perhaps pubs and pub landlords will be forced to do something to address that.
If we can get to change from a fiver again it would be glorious. I still long for the days of £1.75 for a decent pint and £1.25 for a Foster's or Carling.
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
That is one of the bleakest postings I have ever read on PB.
The pub game and the eating out game has been over for a long time for a lot of people. Its been out of their price range for the best part of a decade. Probably unusual on here as most of my friends are on average wage or less but I can say none of them consider going to a bar or restaurant these days because of cost. Even in the 00's it was mostly reserved for occasions such as birthdays. Now its round someones house with some beer from the supermarket
That's a very valuable perspective and I can absolutely see that. Perhaps pubs and pub landlords will be forced to do something to address that.
I dont think there is anything landlords can do, pubs dont make profit on a pint which is why most of them have turned to food as well. That is down to brewery rents, having to buy from breweries rather than cheaper outlets, business rates etc.
The average guy though by the time he has paid for his housing, bills food....well a night out and 5 pints is 20£ and thats a significant chunk of what was left over...a meal out is going to cost the same. Those 5 beers around a friends cost a fiver.
I suspect the typical view will be stop supermarkets charging so little but that won't get those people back in pubs they will just move to homebrew because its not the price differential stopping them its purely for a lot of people now they are priced out of a night out.
And Adonis must know about the statue of James II outside the National Gallery and the equestrian one of Charles I on the other side of Trafalgar Square too.
Colston's company - 80000 slaves? Pah! That's nothing on the Royal African Company.
Incidentally a lot of the Leverhulme Trust money comes from what was slavery in all but name in the Belgian Congo where William Lever had a brutal fiefdom.
Raze Leverburgh to the ground!
Actually reverting to its original name of Obbe might be more proportional.
Have you ever seen it?! It's mostly Lewisian Gneiss and peat already ...
I had occasion to look into the matter of the Clearances in the Highlands and Islands for work purposes. What I do remember is that some lairds tried to do the best for their tenants when the potato famine came on, and so on, and yet the money for that often came from commercial activities in Empire ...
I have been having two slices of toast with a) marmalade (Frank Cooper, rough cut); and b) peanut butter (Pip 'n Nut) each day in lockdown.
Each slice of toast I would say is 150-200 calories (including the butter, etc).
So. I have henceforth decided to have only one slice of toast a day (alternating with peanut butter and marmalade) which means...by Friday I will have saved up enough calories to compensate for the bottle of wine I have on Friday evening!
Syria and Afghanistan are having culture wars. Centrist liberals and religious moderates get squeezed out. Libraries get burned. Minorities murdered. There's probably other stuff too.
Government increasing losing the plot totally on unlocking. Looks like a dog's breakfast of personal ministerial whims rather than a plan.
Schools not to reopen for all primary as planned. Hancock now talking about "September at earliest" for secondary.
If we get an autumn wave then we could see many pupils not being in school until next spring. That would be an entire year at home.
Yet we plan to reopen shops, beer gardens, theme parks etc etc. Even talk of holidays in EU from July.
I don't think those things are necessarily contradictory. I suspect the chances of the virus spreading outside is very small. Unfortunately schools have to work indoors. I don't see why businesses and consumers should suffer just because we think they are less important than kids going to school.
For schools, I wonder if something like alternating weeks will be needed for some time whereby half the kids go one week and half the kids go the next? It won't be ideal, but we mustn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Where is the evidence that kids pass this virus on? Or even get it themselves in all but a minuscule minority?
Or have I missed something?
None whatsoever. Schools should never have been closed.
I understand closing them was only put in at the last minute.
Of course there is evidence that children can both get the virus - the ONS survey has found no statistically significant differences between the percentages infected in different age groups - and pass it on.
I agree, they can get the virus, but they very rarely suffer from it. They are about as likely to get struck by lightning as to die from COVID, if they have no comorbities.
Whether they pass it on to any significant extent is not clear. A study of one 9-year old boy in the French Alps had the boy visiting three schools whilst symptomatic, but the researchers found no evidence of transmission of the virus to other pupils in follow-up interviews and testing. There are lots of similar studies ongoing.
But until there is overwhelming evidence that children are transmitting the virus and causing a significant number of deaths overall, schools should be open, just as they are in most other European countries.
Though I know, as you say, facts don't get in the way of your opinions.
The facts are equivocal.
What isn't equivocal is the massive damage this is doing to kids' education, especially poorer kids, and to parents' jobs if they can't afford child care.
Also to abused children, who need school to get away from their difficult family situations for a few hours a day. Oh, and hungry ones, who rely on free school meals to feed them.
Closing schools was a disaster. If this virus affected children the way it does old people, there would be a case for it. But there's no case for keeping them closed when other European countries are reopening them without problems.
This is a case of reductio ad absurdum. I really don't know what Adonis is playing at by conflating Colston with the likes of Cromwell.
There was every case for pulling down the Bristol statue and I for one am glad that something so insulting to so many has gone. The man was part of a company responsible for transporting 80,000 slaves and probably causing the death of the same number who didn't make it alive. It was erected in the late 19th Century due to the funding of its sponsor who stepped in following the failure of a public appeal, at a time when slavery was already utterly abhorrent, so it didn't really represent opinion even then. The fact that those casting around for other examples are finding it hard to identify anything else so abhorrent rather makes the point that the Bristol statue was pretty unique. Shame on the authorities for not getting rid of it years ago. Just occasionally, very occasionally, it's right for the public to intervene when the authorities fail so spectacularly.
The only issue that I have with its removal is the fact that the crowd should not have gathered in the midst of an infectious deadly pandemic. So I would have approved of the manner of its removal 6 months ago, but not at this precise moment when those gathering across the UK risk infecting themselves and others giving new legs to the pandemic. People will die as a result of the current wave of protests, including many others who did not take part. I think it is that, not the fact of removal, that limited support for the action to just 13%.
Andrew Adonis is just......weird.
He's even unhappy with a statute of Gladstone (I guess, because the British Empire expanded under his watch).
The funny thing is that a statute of his hero, Tony Blair (about who I'm not sure he's joking) could end-up being torn down by others due to 'war crimes' over Iraq.
I have been having two slices of toast with a) marmalade (Frank Cooper, rough cut); and b) peanut butter (Pip 'n Nut) each day in lockdown.
Each slice of toast I would say is 150-200 calories (including the butter, etc).
So. I have henceforth decided to have only one slice of toast a day (alternating with peanut butter and marmalade) which means...by Friday I will have saved up enough calories to compensate for the bottle of wine I have on Friday evening!
Fantastic trade imo.
Yay me.
Or do what I do and skip either breakfast or lunch, combined with high protein dinners and a pretty tough exercise regime I'm in bettr shape than ever. Ready for the revolution...
I agree with this generally, but I think that it is too soon to have a realistic discussion about the pros and cons of social distancing. There first needs to be a greater clarity about the level and progression of the epidemic and the potential availability of vaccines. Six months will do for this. Also, the economic and social costs of social distancing need to be more clearly defined. This will take at least to the end of this year. Until 2021 it will be too soon to make the hard decisions that will ultimately be required, decisions that will be made on the basis of much clearer information than we have now.
In the meantime, I have to say that I wish the Health Secretary would stay out of making pronouncements about the opening of schools. They are not part of his ministerial portfolio.
Syria and Afghanistan are having culture wars. Centrist liberals and religious moderates get squeezed out. Libraries get burned. Minorities murdered. There's probably other stuff too.
Those are actual wars not culture wars.
All those incels in body armour cos playing Blackwater operatives are ready and willing when the culture war goes hot. Farage may even get his khaki out.
@AlastairMeeks is right. The current rules are worse than no rules in some areas because they are so ludicrous that no-one respects them or takes them seriously.
Two households should be able to meet, indoors. You should be able to stay overnight with your parents. You should be able to have sex with your partner. Restaurants and cafes should be able to open. Hotels too. Common-sense will prevail.
I have stopped taking notice of most of the rules. I now simply do whatever I like plus 2m social distancing with the public. With my family, I don't even do that. I touch their back, shoulder or arm, but I don't kiss or hug them tight. I won't be alone in making my own judgements.
The whole way through this crisis this Government has been slow, pedestrian, uncreative and inflexible in its thinking.
That comes from the top.
The virus spreads fastest indoors within households. So it is important that families do not mingle indoors.
It spreads fastest when masses of infected people come into contact with each other in a short space of time.
This doesn't include two households of up to six people, and no-one else.
I have been having two slices of toast with a) marmalade (Frank Cooper, rough cut); and b) peanut butter (Pip 'n Nut) each day in lockdown.
Each slice of toast I would say is 150-200 calories (including the butter, etc).
So. I have henceforth decided to have only one slice of toast a day (alternating with peanut butter and marmalade) which means...by Friday I will have saved up enough calories to compensate for the bottle of wine I have on Friday evening!
Fantastic trade imo.
Yay me.
Or do what I do and skip either breakfast or lunch, combined with high protein dinners and a pretty tough exercise regime I'm in bettr shape than ever. Ready for the revolution...
This is a case of reductio ad absurdum. I really don't know what Adonis is playing at by conflating Colston with the likes of Cromwell.
There was every case for pulling down the Bristol statue and I for one am glad that something so insulting to so many has gone. The man was part of a company responsible for transporting 80,000 slaves and probably causing the death of the same number who didn't make it alive. It was erected in the late 19th Century due to the funding of its sponsor who stepped in following the failure of a public appeal, at a time when slavery was already utterly abhorrent, so it didn't really represent opinion even then. The fact that those casting around for other examples are finding it hard to identify anything else so abhorrent rather makes the point that the Bristol statue was pretty unique. Shame on the authorities for not getting rid of it years ago. Just occasionally, very occasionally, it's right for the public to intervene when the authorities fail so spectacularly.
The only issue that I have with its removal is the fact that the crowd should not have gathered in the midst of an infectious deadly pandemic. So I would have approved of the manner of its removal 6 months ago, but not at this precise moment when those gathering across the UK risk infecting themselves and others giving new legs to the pandemic. People will die as a result of the current wave of protests, including many others who did not take part. I think it is that, not the fact of removal, that limited support for the action to just 13%.
Andrew Adonis is just......weird.
He's even unhappy with a statute of Gladstone (I guess, because the British Empire expanded under his watch).
The funny thing is that a statute of his hero, Tony Blair (about who I'm not sure he's joking) could end-up being torn down by others due to 'war crimes' over Iraq.
It's a zero-sum game he's playing.
I imagine that a statue to Tony Blair would be a prime target, for those on his side of the debate.
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
That is one of the bleakest postings I have ever read on PB.
The pub game and the eating out game has been over for a long time for a lot of people. Its been out of their price range for the best part of a decade. Probably unusual on here as most of my friends are on average wage or less but I can say none of them consider going to a bar or restaurant these days because of cost. Even in the 00's it was mostly reserved for occasions such as birthdays. Now its round someones house with some beer from the supermarket
That's a very valuable perspective and I can absolutely see that. Perhaps pubs and pub landlords will be forced to do something to address that.
I dont think there is anything landlords can do, pubs dont make profit on a pint which is why most of them have turned to food as well. That is down to brewery rents, having to buy from breweries rather than cheaper outlets, business rates etc.
The average guy though by the time he has paid for his housing, bills food....well a night out and 5 pints is 20£ and thats a significant chunk of what was left over...a meal out is going to cost the same. Those 5 beers around a friends cost a fiver.
I suspect the typical view will be stop supermarkets charging so little but that won't get those people back in pubs they will just move to homebrew because its not the price differential stopping them its purely for a lot of people now they are priced out of a night out.
I would reduce the alcohol duty rate for on licence sales, increase the alcohol duty rate for off licence sales, break the power of the pub landlord companies (somehow).
Also generally doing something about housing costs in this country would help with so many other problems.
I have been having two slices of toast with a) marmalade (Frank Cooper, rough cut); and b) peanut butter (Pip 'n Nut) each day in lockdown.
Each slice of toast I would say is 150-200 calories (including the butter, etc).
So. I have henceforth decided to have only one slice of toast a day (alternating with peanut butter and marmalade) which means...by Friday I will have saved up enough calories to compensate for the bottle of wine I have on Friday evening!
To be fair to Cabinet Ministers, when they decided that social distancing could be achieved by limiting class sizes to 15, from their own and their children’s experience they had little notion that children would ever be taught in larger groups...
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
That is one of the bleakest postings I have ever read on PB.
The pub game and the eating out game has been over for a long time for a lot of people. Its been out of their price range for the best part of a decade. Probably unusual on here as most of my friends are on average wage or less but I can say none of them consider going to a bar or restaurant these days because of cost. Even in the 00's it was mostly reserved for occasions such as birthdays. Now its round someones house with some beer from the supermarket
That's a very valuable perspective and I can absolutely see that. Perhaps pubs and pub landlords will be forced to do something to address that.
If we can get to change from a fiver again it would be glorious. I still long for the days of £1.75 for a decent pint and £1.25 for a Foster's or Carling.
£2.39 for a pint of cask ale in my local Wetherspoons. It's also usually well-kept and from a local brewery. It means I can save some money and drink in more expensive establishments too. During lockdown I have been ordering beer from local microbreweries (and, er, Belgium) but it's not the same as going down the pub. But I live on my own, don't have a family to support, and can afford to indulge myself (and living on my own means the pub is a more important part of my social life)
And Adonis must know about the statue of James II outside the National Gallery and the equestrian one of Charles I on the other side of Trafalgar Square too.
Colston's company - 80000 slaves? Pah! That's nothing on the Royal African Company.
Incidentally a lot of the Leverhulme Trust money comes from what was slavery in all but name in the Belgian Congo where William Lever had a brutal fiefdom.
Raze Leverburgh to the ground!
Actually reverting to its original name of Obbe might be more proportional.
Have you ever seen it?! It's mostly Lewisian Gneiss and peat already ...
I had occasion to look into the matter of the Clearances in the Highlands and Islands for work purposes. What I do remember is that some lairds tried to do the best for their tenants when the potato famine came on, and so on, and yet the money for that often came from commercial activities in Empire ...
Aye, my dad lived there for the last 10 years of his life. I guess it's a sort of half way house between the flinty east side and the softer machair of the west.
Yes, unfortunately life on the islands has had an element of subsidy for quite a long time. I imagine commercial activities in Empire might cover quite a lot of dubious stuff, though a bodach with his barrel of salt herring and tatty patch might need a bit of convincing that he was rolling about in the wages of sin.
Government increasing losing the plot totally on unlocking. Looks like a dog's breakfast of personal ministerial whims rather than a plan.
Schools not to reopen for all primary as planned. Hancock now talking about "September at earliest" for secondary.
If we get an autumn wave then we could see many pupils not being in school until next spring. That would be an entire year at home.
Yet we plan to reopen shops, beer gardens, theme parks etc etc. Even talk of holidays in EU from July.
I don't think those things are necessarily contradictory. I suspect the chances of the virus spreading outside is very small. Unfortunately schools have to work indoors. I don't see why businesses and consumers should suffer just because we think they are less important than kids going to school.
For schools, I wonder if something like alternating weeks will be needed for some time whereby half the kids go one week and half the kids go the next? It won't be ideal, but we mustn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Where is the evidence that kids pass this virus on? Or even get it themselves in all but a minuscule minority?
Or have I missed something?
None whatsoever. Schools should never have been closed.
I understand closing them was only put in at the last minute.
Of course there is evidence that children can both get the virus - the ONS survey has found no statistically significant differences between the percentages infected in different age groups - and pass it on.
I agree, they can get the virus, but they very rarely suffer from it. They are about as likely to get struck by lightning as to die from COVID, if they have no comorbities.
Whether they pass it on to any significant extent is not clear. A study of one 9-year old boy in the French Alps had the boy visiting three schools whilst symptomatic, but the researchers found no evidence of transmission of the virus to other pupils in follow-up interviews and testing. There are lots of similar studies ongoing.
But until there is overwhelming evidence that children are transmitting the virus and causing a significant number of deaths overall, schools should be open, just as they are in most other European countries.
Though I know, as you say, facts don't get in the way of your opinions.
The facts are equivocal.
What isn't equivocal is the massive damage this is doing to kids' education, especially poorer kids, and to parents' jobs if they can't afford child care.
Also to abused children, who need school to get away from their difficult family situations for a few hours a day. Oh, and hungry ones, who rely on free school meals to feed them.
Closing schools was a disaster. If this virus affected children the way it does old people, there would be a case for it. But there's no case for keeping them closed when other European countries are reopening them without problems.
Much of it comes down to attitude. We've piled kids high and taught them cheap in this country. It amused me to hear a Danish primary school teacher on R5L some weeks ago explaining how they had re-opened. After detailing additional measures, she was asked how many kids in her class now. 15. Oh wow! How many before? (Obviously confused)...15.
I have been having two slices of toast with a) marmalade (Frank Cooper, rough cut); and b) peanut butter (Pip 'n Nut) each day in lockdown.
Each slice of toast I would say is 150-200 calories (including the butter, etc).
So. I have henceforth decided to have only one slice of toast a day (alternating with peanut butter and marmalade) which means...by Friday I will have saved up enough calories to compensate for the bottle of wine I have on Friday evening!
Fantastic trade imo.
Yay me.
Or do what I do and skip either breakfast or lunch, combined with high protein dinners and a pretty tough exercise regime I'm in bettr shape than ever. Ready for the revolution...
I have in the past when I had to keep my weight low skipped breakfast and found it quite miserable. But if it works for you that's great.
I was never fitter than when I had every day (every day!) a sausage sandwich. My workouts, stamina, strength all improved. The energy boost from not hitting your workouts depleted was significant.
But then if you're up for it as I said that's great.
Tens of thousands of people can pack into a square together to topple a statue and nobody blinks an eye.
But two people standing closer together than 1m in a restaurant and everybody loses their minds.
Nobody blinks an eye! Im guessing you havent been reading the endless comments and threads about it the last 4 days.
Prediction - restaurants and pubs will be open with 1m social distancing between different groups by mid September.
I'm in the pub business and I'm afraid I disagree. Policing social distancing of any kind in a pub is impossible. I think you'll find that many pubs have already decided its over and the breweries are going to find a much reduced demand. Plenty of the smaller and micro breweries have already given up.
And factor in that people have become used to supermarket prices, a pizza and netflix on a friday night for less than half the price of a night at the pub.
The pub game as we all know it is finished.
That is one of the bleakest postings I have ever read on PB.
The pub game and the eating out game has been over for a long time for a lot of people. Its been out of their price range for the best part of a decade. Probably unusual on here as most of my friends are on average wage or less but I can say none of them consider going to a bar or restaurant these days because of cost. Even in the 00's it was mostly reserved for occasions such as birthdays. Now its round someones house with some beer from the supermarket
That's a very valuable perspective and I can absolutely see that. Perhaps pubs and pub landlords will be forced to do something to address that.
I dont think there is anything landlords can do, pubs dont make profit on a pint which is why most of them have turned to food as well. That is down to brewery rents, having to buy from breweries rather than cheaper outlets, business rates etc.
The average guy though by the time he has paid for his housing, bills food....well a night out and 5 pints is 20£ and thats a significant chunk of what was left over...a meal out is going to cost the same. Those 5 beers around a friends cost a fiver.
I suspect the typical view will be stop supermarkets charging so little but that won't get those people back in pubs they will just move to homebrew because its not the price differential stopping them its purely for a lot of people now they are priced out of a night out.
I would reduce the alcohol duty rate for on licence sales, increase the alcohol duty rate for off licence sales, break the power of the pub landlord companies (somehow).
Also generally doing something about housing costs in this country would help with so many other problems.
See exactly as I predicted....people arent drinking in pubs because its too expensive....well we will make it just as expensive to drink at home then....won't get them back into pubs because they cant spend money they don't have. They can afford 5 or 6 pounds for a few beers with friends....that would buy a pint and a half in most pubs and they won't bother going out for that
I still don't *get* people's assumed right not to have to walk past buildings or art that they don't like and feel some disapprobation. I dislike virtually everything built in the 1960's and 70's. More than that, it boils my blood that an elite of sneering architects and taste leaders inflicted brutalist architecture on the lower classes and pulled down beautiful Georgian and Victorian buildings with such zeal. However, I don't feel it's my right to stir up a mob and tear them down. Just deal with it. Get on with life.
Comments
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1270114808860487684?s=20
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1270213734636630019?s=20
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1270214162774458368?s=20
Pubswise my guess would be those with gardens do a bit better.
https://twitter.com/MarkUrban01/status/1269673600673513475?s=20
https://twitter.com/andrew_adonis/status/1270269862007488512?s=21
https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/why-are-all-the-pubs-closing-ask-people-who-never-go-to-the-pub-200903051623
In some ways this might help pubs. People who wouldn't normally go to the pub might have been getting takeaways and say they will definitely (!?) support the pub on reopening.
https://twitter.com/brunobrussels/status/1270268285641265154?s=21
https://twitter.com/brunobrussels/status/1270268728723324929?s=21
A message from my cousin was particularly poignant "the rules exist to protect people like us, breaking them leads to nothing good for minorities".
Is it the over strong unions? Is it that too many furloughed parents are having a nice summer? Is it just that the government has so scared us to death that parents are genuinely terrified? Or is it ministers who are terrified?
Our local small brewery is keeping going with off sales, including on-line.
But facts are hardly going to stand in the way of opinions.
It seems like another one of those poor decisions made by Matt Hancock.
Haven't we got more important things to worry about, expend energy on?
You should see what Henry VIII did to abbeys - and to the North of England and the Scottish Borders. Does he have a statue anywhere? googles ... yes,. for instance at Barts Hospital and King's Cambridge ...
Here in NRW, at the end of April they reopened only for children taking the Abitur this year. Early in May they reopened for a couple of other years (secondary school children taking the Abitur next year, and final year primary school children). 10 days ago they reopened kindergartens for final year kindergarten children (which means 5/6 year olds), and since yesterday for all kindergarten children. From 15th June (in NRW) they are reopening for all primary school children every day (earlier they had some kind of shift system).
Schools/pupils with special needs have been back for a few weeks.
The other secondary school years I think are also back at school part-time with a shift-system.
So still not completely open.
4 German Bundesländer have just introduced quarantine for arrivals from Sweden because of a rise in case numbers last week. But the Swedes seem to be saying it is just an accounting thing because they had to add some cases that had been missed or something?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ew4wrtl01PA
Will the Taliban Tendency allow me the paintings of Vermeer and Beethoven's sonatas? No point in asking for the Bible is there?
You might add most primary school classes to your list of socially undistanceables - certainly every class below Year 5.
Whether they pass it on to any significant extent is not clear. A study of one 9-year old boy in the French Alps had the boy visiting three schools whilst symptomatic, but the researchers found no evidence of transmission of the virus to other pupils in follow-up interviews and testing. There are lots of similar studies ongoing.
But until there is overwhelming evidence that children are transmitting the virus and causing a significant number of deaths overall, schools should be open, just as they are in most other European countries.
Though I know, as you say, facts don't get in the way of your opinions.
It will be called the 'Narcissus Ego'. It will never be vandalised...
There was every case for pulling down the Bristol statue and I for one am glad that something so insulting to so many has gone. The man was part of a company responsible for transporting 80,000 slaves and probably causing the death of the same number who didn't make it alive. It was erected in the late 19th Century due to the funding of its sponsor who stepped in following the failure of a public appeal, at a time when slavery was already utterly abhorrent, so it didn't really represent opinion even then. The fact that those casting around for other examples are finding it hard to identify anything else so abhorrent rather makes the point that the Bristol statue was pretty unique. Shame on the authorities for not getting rid of it years ago. Just occasionally, very occasionally, it's right for the public to intervene when the authorities fail so spectacularly.
The only issue that I have with its removal is the fact that the crowd should not have gathered in the midst of an infectious deadly pandemic. So I would have approved of the manner of its removal 6 months ago, but not at this precise moment when those gathering across the UK risk infecting themselves and others giving new legs to the pandemic. People will die as a result of the current wave of protests, including many others who did not take part. I think it is that, not the fact of removal, that limited support for the action to just 13%.
The pub itself is much as Cyclefree describes her local - small rooms; low ceilings; customers cheeck by jowl. The last time I went in, some time before lockdown, I beat a hasty retreat, realising I'd be inhaling the exhalations of a score or more, all the time I was inside...
He's even unhappy with a statute of Gladstone (I guess, because the British Empire expanded under his watch).
The local pub I mentioned above is probably scraping a living at the moment, possibly even slightly better than that, but they will be an exception rather than the rule.
Evidence summary for SARS-CoV-2 viral load and infectivity over the course of an infection
https://www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/files/2020-06/Evidence-Summary_SARS-CoV-2-duration-of-infectivity.pdf
...Based on a limited number of studies which have compared findings between children and adults, there appears to be no difference between children and adults in terms of viral load or duration of virus detection....
After Reopening Schools, Israel Orders Them To Shut If COVID-19 Cases Are Discovered
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/06/03/868507524/israel-orders-schools-to-close-when-covid-19-cases-are-discovered?t=1591694841179
...Two weeks after Israel fully reopened schools, a COVID-19 outbreak sweeping through classrooms — including at least 130 cases at a single school — has led officials to close dozens of schools where students and staff were infected. A new policy orders any school where a virus case emerges to close.
The government decision, announced Wednesday evening, comes after more than 200 cases have been confirmed among students and staff at various schools. At least 244 students and school employees have tested positive for the coronavirus, according to the Ministry of Education. At least 42 kindergartens and schools have been shuttered indefinitely. More than 6,800 students and teachers are in home quarantine by government order.
It's an abrupt reversal of the post-pandemic spirit in Israel as officials lifted most remaining coronavirus restrictions last week. With fewer than 300 deaths in Israel, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had declared victory in early May over the pandemic and last week told Israelis to go to restaurants and "enjoy yourselves."...
Colston's company - 80000 slaves? Pah! That's nothing on the Royal African Company.
Incidentally a lot of the Leverhulme Trust money comes from what was slavery in all but name in the Belgian Congo where William Lever had a brutal fiefdom.
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2020/jun/09/domestic-violence-legal-aid-judicial-review-cross-examine-partner-court
Actually reverting to its original name of Obbe might be more proportional.
The BLM is far more important for it to be hijacked by the far left and anarchists with different agendas
However, if the country is not careful this could lead to even deeper divisions that is absolutely not anyone should want.
Common sense on all sides is required
The average guy though by the time he has paid for his housing, bills food....well a night out and 5 pints is 20£ and thats a significant chunk of what was left over...a meal out is going to cost the same. Those 5 beers around a friends cost a fiver.
I suspect the typical view will be stop supermarkets charging so little but that won't get those people back in pubs they will just move to homebrew because its not the price differential stopping them its purely for a lot of people now they are priced out of a night out.
I had occasion to look into the matter of the Clearances in the Highlands and Islands for work purposes. What I do remember is that some lairds tried to do the best for their tenants when the potato famine came on, and so on, and yet the money for that often came from commercial activities in Empire ...
I have been having two slices of toast with a) marmalade (Frank Cooper, rough cut); and b) peanut butter (Pip 'n Nut) each day in lockdown.
Each slice of toast I would say is 150-200 calories (including the butter, etc).
So. I have henceforth decided to have only one slice of toast a day (alternating with peanut butter and marmalade) which means...by Friday I will have saved up enough calories to compensate for the bottle of wine I have on Friday evening!
Fantastic trade imo.
Yay me.
Also to abused children, who need school to get away from their difficult family situations for a few hours a day. Oh, and hungry ones, who rely on free school meals to feed them.
Closing schools was a disaster. If this virus affected children the way it does old people, there would be a case for it. But there's no case for keeping them closed when other European countries are reopening them without problems.
It's a zero-sum game he's playing.
In the meantime, I have to say that I wish the Health Secretary would stay out of making pronouncements about the opening of schools. They are not part of his ministerial portfolio.
This doesn't include two households of up to six people, and no-one else.
People cry "offence" to close down the debate, and/or then take matters into their own hands.
Also generally doing something about housing costs in this country would help with so many other problems.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Smuckers-Goober-Peanut-Butter-Stripes/dp/B002RSFL7U
Yes, unfortunately life on the islands has had an element of subsidy for quite a long time. I imagine commercial activities in Empire might cover quite a lot of dubious stuff, though a bodach with his barrel of salt herring and tatty patch might need a bit of convincing that he was rolling about in the wages of sin.
It amused me to hear a Danish primary school teacher on R5L some weeks ago explaining how they had re-opened. After detailing additional measures, she was asked how many kids in her class now.
15.
Oh wow! How many before?
(Obviously confused)...15.
I was never fitter than when I had every day (every day!) a sausage sandwich. My workouts, stamina, strength all improved. The energy boost from not hitting your workouts depleted was significant.
But then if you're up for it as I said that's great.