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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » At the start of lockdown Johnson’s Tories had poll leads of up

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  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900


    Duration, Distance, MASSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKS...


    Saw a thing from Japan, where they judge public transport isn't really a big danger ..... because everyone wears masks.

    Also interesting they think the fact nobody is speaking matters (presumably because it means less virus getting expelled?)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    algarkirk said:

    Chris said:

    Just trying to be serious for a moment (I know, I know - but let's see what happens).

    The police are saying there may have been a minor breach of the regulations regarding the day trip to Barnard Castle, but they don't consider there was regarding the journey from London to Durham.

    Of course the police have jurisidiction only over the regulations about leaving home, not over the guidance on self-isolation.

    Does anyone have a serious opinion on why the police would have decided the trip to Durham didn't infringe the regulations? The "risk of harm" provision?

    Because if that is what they decided, then that implies that provision covers an extremely wide range of circumstances, in which the risk of harm can be extremely hypothetical. I think that interpretation, if shared by other authorities, would make a dead letter of the regulations.



    IMO there are four issues: One, the only legal test (ignored by almost everyone) is: was there a reasonable excuse at the time of leaving the (London) home for Durham. There is no full list of reasonable excuses, only examples (Sec 6). To consider the action as legally culpable there has to be a realistic chance of conviction on a 'beyond reasonable doubt' test. DC gave us lots of reasonable excuses (at least three I think) so, if you think he might possibly be telling the truth an acquittal would be likely.

    Two; I don't think there is case law on what is a 'reasonable excuse' in this particular regulation. By and large they may not have thought this is the best place to start making it.

    Three; (an oddity) in the trip from London to Durham allegation any offence actually was committed in London (Met jurisdiction), the place where he left his home, not Durham. Has anyone noticed this?

    Four, around this time millions of people, including most students were 'moving house' ie from one residence at college/uni back home. This was medically questionable but no-one questioned it much legally at the time, and IIRC the advice was that this was OK. DC was 'moving house' - specifically allowed for 'where reasonably necessary' in Section 6.
    Thank you for a sensible answer.

    But do you really think the reference in the regulations to "moving house" would cover travelling to a second home? I can't believe that.
    Just for accuracy. It was not his second home
    Please try to keep up. Apparently it is claimed that it was his second home. DougSeal posted a bit earlier:
    "It appears he owns the cottage he self isolated in - making it his second home."

    Please also note that I don't believe a word of these multitudinous contradictory excuses that have been put forward on Cummings's behalf.

    If I say "would the regulations really justify X", don't imagine for a moment that I accept that X was really the situation. Only that someone or other trying to defend Cummings has said that X was the situation!

    I am still sceptical about whether this "cottage" even exists!
    With respect the police statement is comprehensive and it really does not matter what you believe unless you want to take on the police statement

    As far as the ownership of the cottage is concerned I have not seen the previous comment but it has not come into the issue as far as the police are concerned
    The question of what 'to move house' means (Regs 6(l)) is interesting but safest to say it means exactly what it seems to mean in common sense - to go to live from one home of any sort to another home of any sort. Subject to any exemptions - like for holidays.
    They also said that they would have likely asked him to return home which suggests they deemed it a violation of the regs and not the law (at which point of course a failure to obey the instruction to return home would have been an actual offence).
    I don't think anyone has suggested he was moving house to the castle. But maybe someone did and I missed it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,555
    edited May 2020
    This is a correct question, asked of the correct authority. Except that the issue is law, not rules. He probably squeaks through the gaps, though it would not be in line with the spirit of the guidance.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Again, returning to work after his wife displayed symptoms isn't covered by the law.

    But perhaps it should be.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    The most remarkable thing about that poll was not the 82% approval rating for Nicola Sturgeon (which obviously must include a huge number of people who voted No last time), but the fact that it was commissioned at all! By BBC Scotland!! I was genuinely flabbergasted that morning.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited May 2020

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Garbage by a vindictive partisan with an axe to grind who called this wrong earlier. They don't follow the might with that, if you read the paragraph with your own eyes they follow the might with asking for more information from Cummings which they haven't done as it's too minor.
    Let’s wait for the court’s decision after the inevitable private prosecution shall we?
    Can you bring a private prosecution for the equivalent of a parking ticket?

    We could all become traffic wardens. Just think of the fun!
    As I said earlier this site has gone mad, the police have confirmed that his trip to Durham to self isolate was fine and no offence has been committed. His trip to the Castle might have been a minor breach, thats it, so far less than speeding and even far less than a parking ticket. Yet some on this site said that this was the biggest story of the past 20 years, even bigger than 9/11. For something less than a parking ticket????
    Will people please stop LYING.

    The police did NOT say the trip to Durham was fine. They said it was not a breach of the law. It was still prima facie a breach of the guidelines - presented by the government as instructions.
    Durham is not open to debate now but Barnard Castle is explained that any charge would have followed if the police had stopped him and given advice and then he did not follow that advice

    To any fair minded person the detailed police statement should end the matter, and some journalists need to be careful about their tweets and comments, as some posters

    It does not alter my opinion that Cummings and Boris have damaged their government and Cummings should have gone, but the agenda seems to have moved on
    Durham is not open to debate on legality. But one way to open it up again is to falsely claim that the police statement means it was "fine". It was not fine. It was a breach of the guidelines which were presented by the government as instructions.

    Barnard Castle is judged a probable minor breach of the law if it had been picked up at the time. Retrospective action not to be taken since (i) not serious enough and (ii) this offence has never been retro-prosecuted so unfair to do so here and (iii) he would have been asked to turn back to avoid prosecution and he now does not get the chance to do that.

    There is no particular logic to saying that this police statement should end the matter since the case for a Cummings apology was never based on whether he broke the law or not. It was based on the need to preserve trust in government and in the integrity of its PM and its messaging at this time of great crisis.

    That said, it IS over. For whatever reason Johnson has chosen to blow a ton of capital and goodwill by praising Cummings rather than criticizing him, and he will not be changing his tune now.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    Andrew said:


    Duration, Distance, MASSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKS...


    Saw a thing from Japan, where they judge public transport isn't really a big danger ..... because everyone wears masks.

    Also interesting they think the fact nobody is speaking matters (presumably because it means less virus getting expelled?)
    I believe speaking is known to generate a lot of droplets, which in infected people are presumably virus-laden droplets. Singing is much worse again apparently.

    So being in an enclosed environment might well be mitigated significantly if no one is talking & everyone is wearing masks that catch coughs or sneezes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited May 2020
    France is set to launch its coronavirus contact-tracing app as soon as the weekend after it cleared two parliamentary votes.

    The StopCovid app will supplement work already being done by a French team of human contact tracers who are trying to identify people who may be infected with the disease but are unaware of the fact.

    The app works by using Bluetooth signals to detect when two handsets are in close proximity, in order to log an estimation of the distance and length of the encounter.

    France, like the UK, has opted for a "centralised" app, which carries out contact matches on a computer server.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-52832279

    Seems their app has a lot of the same problems as the UK one,

    https://nadim.computer/posts/2020-05-27-stopcovid.html
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    This illustrates the ambiguity of the "rules".

    The govt has wilfully elided the difference between the rules and the law and the failure of the BBC in its reporting to clarify the difference is why I was so irritated with them (the BBC) the other day as it did the same thing.

    @BigPhilT of course told me they were crystal clear and anyway people should use their common sense. We now see where that has ended up.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Shades of Nick Griffin and his pigs.
    I'm sure the 'political correctness gone mad, he's only havin' a laff' merchants will be along shortly.
    And Alan Clark with his dog called Eva Braun

    This isn't entirely a rightwing thing, a lot of it is posh people being outrageous, pour epater les bourgeois, to show how posh they really are; ie, they can get away with it
    I'd imagine that the segment of posh people who are left wing is relatively small, let alone the left wing segment that indulges in racist and Nazi luvvin memes when naming their animals.
    There is an middle class, left wing equivalent.

    Tyson had a dog called Trotsky. How many cats in Islington are called "Che"? Quite a few I'd bet.

    It's an interesting subgenre of human behaviour. Politically provocative names for pets.

    Dizzy, whose pet human was called Michael Foot?
  • At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    Nicola looked quite scared today, and indeed admitted as much, as she released some of the lockdown rules. She is a clever politician who knows that lockdown is easy, and indeed popular, in a risk averse population but of course the problems for her going forward are the same for Boris.

    Containing the virus as we come out of lockdown, success of track and trace, and how she is able to deal with the economic armageddon coming the way of Scotland and of course England

    To be fair to her she does recognise that she could well have serious problems with Nikes Edinburgh conference and the kilt makers which was Scotlands ground zero and in February

    I do not think for one minute Nicola will be seeking Indy 2 at this moment of real crisis and I hope she fends off the imminent civil war comming from Salmond and his group

    And I have no idea how Indy 2 would play out

    I hope you accept this is fair and balanced
    The SNP civil war will be interesting. She really doesn't deserve to fend it off. Her faction went all in against Salmond and lost. Salmond has been found not guilty yet friendly journalists to the other side still write about the trial as if he was guilty. The more you look at the SNP the more malign it appears.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    The most remarkable thing about that poll was not the 82% approval rating for Nicola Sturgeon (which obviously must include a huge number of people who voted No last time), but the fact that it was commissioned at all! By BBC Scotland!! I was genuinely flabbergasted that morning.
    Not so much commissioned buyt commissioned and broadcast.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Carnyx said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Shades of Nick Griffin and his pigs.
    I'm sure the 'political correctness gone mad, he's only havin' a laff' merchants will be along shortly.
    And Alan Clark with his dog called Eva Braun

    This isn't entirely a rightwing thing, a lot of it is posh people being outrageous, pour epater les bourgeois, to show how posh they really are; ie, they can get away with it
    I'd imagine that the segment of posh people who are left wing is relatively small, let alone the left wing segment that indulges in racist and Nazi luvvin memes when naming their animals.
    There is an middle class, left wing equivalent.

    Tyson had a dog called Trotsky. How many cats in Islington are called "Che"? Quite a few I'd bet.

    It's an interesting subgenre of human behaviour. Politically provocative names for pets.

    Dizzy, whose pet human was called Michael Foot?
    Equally, Mickey Mouse, who I believe had a @Philip_Thompson watch?
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Phil said:


    I believe speaking is known to generate a lot of droplets, which in infected people are presumably virus-laden droplets. Singing is much worse again apparently.

    Would explain why football matches were such a problem initially - not just that 30k+ people are crammed in close, but so many shouting, singing, and yelling about the referee's parentage.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    @Philip_Thompson

    Hi Philip

    Do you believe Cummings story about the Castle expedition? I mean do you, personally, actually believe he was telling the truth?

    Sort of.

    In the full context of he felt like it was a good idea to drive to see if he was up to the pressures of driving then yes I do. I've done similar before. I think a half hour trip is a great idea before a cross country drive if you have any concerns and I've done that before.

    On the out of context word of "eyesight" and an eyesight discussion alone? No.

    Does that make sense?
    Pure comedy gold. Again.

    You, mr will no one think of the children, have in the past worried that your eyesight is not up to driving so you have shouted over to Mrs T: come on luv grab the kids we're going for a drive.

    You've done that.
    No, read again, not eyesight. I said not eyesight!

    My specific word when I said about "eyesight" was "No."

    Doing a half hour drive when I'm concerned about my stamina etc to do a five hour drive, yes I have done that.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited May 2020

    TOPPING said:

    @Philip_Thompson

    Hi Philip

    Do you believe Cummings story about the Castle expedition? I mean do you, personally, actually believe he was telling the truth?

    Sort of.

    In the full context of he felt like it was a good idea to drive to see if he was up to the pressures of driving then yes I do. I've done similar before. I think a half hour trip is a great idea before a cross country drive if you have any concerns and I've done that before.

    On the out of context word of "eyesight" and an eyesight discussion alone? No.

    Does that make sense?
    Pure comedy gold. Again.

    You, mr will no one think of the children, have in the past worried that your eyesight is not up to driving so you have shouted over to Mrs T: come on luv grab the kids we're going for a drive.

    You've done that.
    No, read again, not eyesight. I said not eyesight!

    My specific word when I said about "eyesight" was "No."

    Doing a half hour drive when I'm concerned about my stamina etc to do a five hour drive, yes I have done that.
    Ah. Ok. How would you know from a half hour drive whether you had the stamina for a five hour drive?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    I think you're assuming that the wickedness of England becoming personified in Boris and Cummings and the wonderfulness of Scotland becoming personified in Nicola Sturgeon are a good thing for the course of Scottish nationalism. Neither is necessarily true.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited May 2020

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Garbage by a vindictive partisan with an axe to grind who called this wrong earlier. They don't follow the might with that, if you read the paragraph with your own eyes they follow the might with asking for more information from Cummings which they haven't done as it's too minor.
    Let’s wait for the court’s decision after the inevitable private prosecution shall we?
    Can you bring a private prosecution for the equivalent of a parking ticket?

    We could all become traffic wardens. Just think of the fun!
    As I said earlier this site has gone mad, the police have confirmed that his trip to Durham to self isolate was fine and no offence has been committed. His trip to the Castle might have been a minor breach, thats it, so far less than speeding and even far less than a parking ticket. Yet some on this site said that this was the biggest story of the past 20 years, even bigger than 9/11. For something less than a parking ticket????
    Will people please stop LYING.

    The police did NOT say the trip to Durham was fine. They said it was not a breach of the law. It was still prima facie a breach of the guidelines - presented by the government as instructions.
    Durham is not open to debate now but Barnard Castle is explained that any charge would have followed if the police had stopped him and given advice and then he did not follow that advice

    To any fair minded person the detailed police statement should end the matter, and some journalists need to be careful about their tweets and comments, as some posters

    It does not alter my opinion that Cummings and Boris have damaged their government and Cummings should have gone, but the agenda seems to have moved on
    Cast off thy rose tinted spectacles and thou shalt see!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    The most remarkable thing about that poll was not the 82% approval rating for Nicola Sturgeon (which obviously must include a huge number of people who voted No last time), but the fact that it was commissioned at all! By BBC Scotland!! I was genuinely flabbergasted that morning.
    Not so much commissioned buyt commissioned and broadcast.
    Indeed.

    Their favourite tactic is to only publish polls which show the most favourable Unionist position. Old as the hills.

    That is why the Scotsman and Herald ceased their valuable monthly series yonks ago, as they began to clearly chart the national switch from SLab to SNP.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TGOHF666 said:

    Premier League* to restart on 17th June.



    * England.

    Excellent! Great news!

    I can't see that on BBC though, where are you getting that from?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902
    No no no. MW had symptoms. DC rushed home. MW ill but not quite as poorlysickdying. DC goes back to work. DC returns home. MW has symptoms. DC expects to get them too. WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDRUN. Phone call to Pater. Load the car, drive to Durham.

    Thats all in the same afternoon. So either MW had pox symptoms forcing their desperate flee north that night in which case what the hell was he doing heading back to Downing Street. Or she didn't have pox symptoms in which case what the hell was he doing fleeing north. Both cannot credibly be correct.

    We sure it wasn't just an elaborate sickie thats gone wrong?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Carnyx said:

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    The most remarkable thing about that poll was not the 82% approval rating for Nicola Sturgeon (which obviously must include a huge number of people who voted No last time), but the fact that it was commissioned at all! By BBC Scotland!! I was genuinely flabbergasted that morning.
    Not so much commissioned buyt commissioned and broadcast.
    Indeed.

    Their favourite tactic is to only publish polls which show the most favourable Unionist position. Old as the hills.

    That is why the Scotsman and Herald ceased their valuable monthly series yonks ago, as they began to clearly chart the national switch from SLab to SNP.
    And I assume also why, very noticeably, the NHS/SHS stats cxomparisons disappeared from the media a few years back (contractors' screwups at the Sick Kids excepted).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    image
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    I agree - very good response.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Andrew said:


    Duration, Distance, MASSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKS...


    Saw a thing from Japan, where they judge public transport isn't really a big danger ..... because everyone wears masks.

    Also interesting they think the fact nobody is speaking matters (presumably because it means less virus getting expelled?)
    Speech expels more of the size of droplet that is most effective in carrying the virus, and further. So speech indoors without masks seems to be one of the biggest contributors to transmission.

    Pronunciation of the 'th' sound is the worst, as it flips the tongue out to an open mouth with heavier exhalation than most other phonemes. Had not thought about it before now, but given that 'the' is the most common word in the English language, I wonder if this has contributed to the outcomes in the UK and USA?

    PS that, their, there, them, they, then, this, these and than all also make the top 100 in English.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Garbage by a vindictive partisan with an axe to grind who called this wrong earlier. They don't follow the might with that, if you read the paragraph with your own eyes they follow the might with asking for more information from Cummings which they haven't done as it's too minor.
    Let’s wait for the court’s decision after the inevitable private prosecution shall we?
    Can you bring a private prosecution for the equivalent of a parking ticket?

    We could all become traffic wardens. Just think of the fun!
    As I said earlier this site has gone mad, the police have confirmed that his trip to Durham to self isolate was fine and no offence has been committed. His trip to the Castle might have been a minor breach, thats it, so far less than speeding and even far less than a parking ticket. Yet some on this site said that this was the biggest story of the past 20 years, even bigger than 9/11. For something less than a parking ticket????
    Will people please stop LYING.

    The police did NOT say the trip to Durham was fine. They said it was not a breach of the law. It was still prima facie a breach of the guidelines - presented by the government as instructions.
    Durham is not open to debate now but Barnard Castle is explained that any charge would have followed if the police had stopped him and given advice and then he did not follow that advice

    To any fair minded person the detailed police statement should end the matter, and some journalists need to be careful about their tweets and comments, as some posters

    It does not alter my opinion that Cummings and Boris have damaged their government and Cummings should have gone, but the agenda seems to have moved on
    Cast off thy rose tinted spectacles and thou shalt see!
    I have and I have seen.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Prem back 17th June
    Another rabid remainer obviously.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    I think you're assuming that the wickedness of England becoming personified in Boris and Cummings and the wonderfulness of Scotland becoming personified in Nicola Sturgeon are a good thing for the course of Scottish nationalism. Neither is necessarily true.
    All this stereotyping really does Unionism more harm than good. You just love attacking straw men. It’ll end in tears.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,555
    TOPPING said:

    This illustrates the ambiguity of the "rules".

    The govt has wilfully elided the difference between the rules and the law and the failure of the BBC in its reporting to clarify the difference is why I was so irritated with them (the BBC) the other day as it did the same thing.

    @BigPhilT of course told me they were crystal clear and anyway people should use their common sense. We now see where that has ended up.
    For those with a mind to work it out, the most helpful guide throughout has been the law (which government did not go out of its way to emphasise) plus a common sense desire actually to minimise risk to others, one's family and oneself. It still is. I imagine most PBers have in fact done exactly that.

    So, for example, in the height of the lock down few sensible people will have thought that while it is OK to walk in a field with the nearest person a mile away it is not OK to sit down in it. Though that sort of nonsense is what the guidance said.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Philip_Thompson

    Hi Philip

    Do you believe Cummings story about the Castle expedition? I mean do you, personally, actually believe he was telling the truth?

    Sort of.

    In the full context of he felt like it was a good idea to drive to see if he was up to the pressures of driving then yes I do. I've done similar before. I think a half hour trip is a great idea before a cross country drive if you have any concerns and I've done that before.

    On the out of context word of "eyesight" and an eyesight discussion alone? No.

    Does that make sense?
    Pure comedy gold. Again.

    You, mr will no one think of the children, have in the past worried that your eyesight is not up to driving so you have shouted over to Mrs T: come on luv grab the kids we're going for a drive.

    You've done that.
    No, read again, not eyesight. I said not eyesight!

    My specific word when I said about "eyesight" was "No."

    Doing a half hour drive when I'm concerned about my stamina etc to do a five hour drive, yes I have done that.
    Ah. Ok. How would you know from a half hour drive whether you had the stamina for a five hour drive?
    You just know. Trust your instincts. EG do you feel up to continue driving or do you feel exhausted?

    As I said when we first discussed this, it was a tip I got from an RAC guy when I was 18, inexperienced and at university and I've followed it since - if you're feeling a bit rusty then a half hour drive is good exercise for both you and your car.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Philip_Thompson

    Hi Philip

    Do you believe Cummings story about the Castle expedition? I mean do you, personally, actually believe he was telling the truth?

    Sort of.

    In the full context of he felt like it was a good idea to drive to see if he was up to the pressures of driving then yes I do. I've done similar before. I think a half hour trip is a great idea before a cross country drive if you have any concerns and I've done that before.

    On the out of context word of "eyesight" and an eyesight discussion alone? No.

    Does that make sense?
    Pure comedy gold. Again.

    You, mr will no one think of the children, have in the past worried that your eyesight is not up to driving so you have shouted over to Mrs T: come on luv grab the kids we're going for a drive.

    You've done that.
    No, read again, not eyesight. I said not eyesight!

    My specific word when I said about "eyesight" was "No."

    Doing a half hour drive when I'm concerned about my stamina etc to do a five hour drive, yes I have done that.
    Ah. Ok. How would you know from a half hour drive whether you had the stamina for a five hour drive?
    It might even have sapped your stamina just flipping you from fine to not fine!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    Prem back 17th June

    Another rabid remainer obviously.
    No - just a grown up
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Wonder how long Alex Massie will keep his Spectator column? He must cause huge discomfort at the top, and among the readership.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TOPPING said:

    This illustrates the ambiguity of the "rules".

    The govt has wilfully elided the difference between the rules and the law and the failure of the BBC in its reporting to clarify the difference is why I was so irritated with them (the BBC) the other day as it did the same thing.

    @BigPhilT of course told me they were crystal clear and anyway people should use their common sense. We now see where that has ended up.
    Yes someone used his common sense and good on him.

    Everyone else should do the same.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    edited May 2020

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    I think you're assuming that the wickedness of England becoming personified in Boris and Cummings and the wonderfulness of Scotland becoming personified in Nicola Sturgeon are a good thing for the course of Scottish nationalism. Neither is necessarily true.
    All this stereotyping really does Unionism more harm than good. You just love attacking straw men. It’ll end in tears.
    Also the assumption it's all about ****ing England. If it were, we'd be having Bannockburn parades down the Royal Mile every June (cf. Unionists and the Boyne). Instead, we put that well-known Independista Neil Oliver in charge there! (mind, he is also a battlefield archaeologist and has done a lot to promote conflict archaeology). (edited)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited May 2020
    Face checking again seems to be a bit of a problem...This of course is from the non-independent Corbynista SAGE group, not governmental one.

    https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1265967730353737730?s=20
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885

    Wonder how long Alex Massie will keep his Spectator column? He must cause huge discomfort at the top, and among the readership.
    It was good of them not to put it behind the paywall. I wonder ...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    eadric said:

    Phil said:

    Andrew said:


    Duration, Distance, MASSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKS...


    Saw a thing from Japan, where they judge public transport isn't really a big danger ..... because everyone wears masks.

    Also interesting they think the fact nobody is speaking matters (presumably because it means less virus getting expelled?)
    I believe speaking is known to generate a lot of droplets, which in infected people are presumably virus-laden droplets. Singing is much worse again apparently.

    So being in an enclosed environment might well be mitigated significantly if no one is talking & everyone is wearing masks that catch coughs or sneezes.
    Masks are so obviously useful, and save so much death and disease, for such a little cost and effort. I've been ranting about this for months. Literally, months.

    And now I've almost given up. Britons just won't wear them en masse, in places the number of mask wearers is going down. I'm not quite sure why.

    In contrast mask usage in America is surging. Are we just dumb?

    https://twitter.com/NBCNewsBusiness/status/1265265907145768962?s=20
    Unfortunately a lot of people just wouldn't be seen dead in a mask.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    I think you're assuming that the wickedness of England becoming personified in Boris and Cummings and the wonderfulness of Scotland becoming personified in Nicola Sturgeon are a good thing for the course of Scottish nationalism. Neither is necessarily true.
    As a "love Europe, hate the EU" type, why is it that you think to support Scottish independence is to be anti-English?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Philip_Thompson

    Hi Philip

    Do you believe Cummings story about the Castle expedition? I mean do you, personally, actually believe he was telling the truth?

    Sort of.

    In the full context of he felt like it was a good idea to drive to see if he was up to the pressures of driving then yes I do. I've done similar before. I think a half hour trip is a great idea before a cross country drive if you have any concerns and I've done that before.

    On the out of context word of "eyesight" and an eyesight discussion alone? No.

    Does that make sense?
    Pure comedy gold. Again.

    You, mr will no one think of the children, have in the past worried that your eyesight is not up to driving so you have shouted over to Mrs T: come on luv grab the kids we're going for a drive.

    You've done that.
    No, read again, not eyesight. I said not eyesight!

    My specific word when I said about "eyesight" was "No."

    Doing a half hour drive when I'm concerned about my stamina etc to do a five hour drive, yes I have done that.
    Ah. Ok. How would you know from a half hour drive whether you had the stamina for a five hour drive?
    It might even have sapped your stamina just flipping you from fine to not fine!
    Just as long as the flip didn't come between minute 31 and minute 299.

    Apparently it was rusty now, though, not stamina. Philip is talking about presumably not remembering how to drive.

    All very curious.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    eadric said:


    And now I've almost given up. Britons just won't wear them en masse, in places the number of mask wearers is going down. I'm not quite sure why.

    I saw a queue outside a shop yesterday, and all 6 were wearing masks. For a minor fraction of a second I had hope, then I got closer and saw it was a Chinese shop, as were all the customers.

    Literally nobody else I saw all day wore a mask *facedesk*
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Face checking again seems to be a bit of a problem...This of course is from the non-independent Corbynista SAGE group, not governmental one.

    https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1265967730353737730?s=20

    and from a BBC journalist, no less.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    edited May 2020

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    I think you're assuming that the wickedness of England becoming personified in Boris and Cummings and the wonderfulness of Scotland becoming personified in Nicola Sturgeon are a good thing for the course of Scottish nationalism. Neither is necessarily true.
    All this stereotyping really does Unionism more harm than good. You just love attacking straw men. It’ll end in tears.
    You can put it any way that you wish. Sturgeon (as I have said) is a talented politician and has had a good coronavirus - deservedly so. However, she is quite clearly in the Autumn of her political years and there's no successor in sight that is not deeply unpalatable by comparison.

    By contrast, Boris and Cummings seem to me to be becoming the 'bad bank' for everyone's Brexit, Tory, England, frustrations. If and when they depart the scene, it is likely to be a catharsis.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Garbage by a vindictive partisan with an axe to grind who called this wrong earlier. They don't follow the might with that, if you read the paragraph with your own eyes they follow the might with asking for more information from Cummings which they haven't done as it's too minor.
    Let’s wait for the court’s decision after the inevitable private prosecution shall we?
    Can you bring a private prosecution for the equivalent of a parking ticket?

    We could all become traffic wardens. Just think of the fun!
    As I said earlier this site has gone mad, the police have confirmed that his trip to Durham to self isolate was fine and no offence has been committed. His trip to the Castle might have been a minor breach, thats it, so far less than speeding and even far less than a parking ticket. Yet some on this site said that this was the biggest story of the past 20 years, even bigger than 9/11. For something less than a parking ticket????
    Will people please stop LYING.

    The police did NOT say the trip to Durham was fine. They said it was not a breach of the law. It was still prima facie a breach of the guidelines - presented by the government as instructions.
    Do you know what we call things that are 'not a breach of the law'?

    We call them LEGAL :wink:
    Exactly.

    As opposed to FINE.

    Nice to see you backing me up today.
    Actually I wanted to support you a second time today. Since you said on the previous thread:

    'I change my mind sometimes based on here. In particular, if somebody who is in my Bad Books says they like something that I happen to also like, I will if at all possible stop liking it. This has happened on numerous occasions.'

    I thought this would be an excellent time to come out with my deep and abiding love of Sir Keir, Labour, and the abolition of private schools. I am all in for that that stuff :wink:
    Nice try but you have to get into my Bad Books first and as of now you aren't. There are 3 cast iron ways to manage it - perhaps you will stumble on one of them soon.

    Philip can perhaps advise. He's been in and out a few times and there's been more in than out recently.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Just had a nice hour's walk through the woods near our home. A week or two ago we could hear the birds without interference. Now the traffic noise from the nearby trunk road is drowning them out again.
    Quite like old times!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    No no no. MW had symptoms. DC rushed home. MW ill but not quite as poorlysickdying. DC goes back to work. DC returns home. MW has symptoms. DC expects to get them too. WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDRUN. Phone call to Pater. Load the car, drive to Durham.

    Thats all in the same afternoon. So either MW had pox symptoms forcing their desperate flee north that night in which case what the hell was he doing heading back to Downing Street. Or she didn't have pox symptoms in which case what the hell was he doing fleeing north. Both cannot credibly be correct.

    We sure it wasn't just an elaborate sickie thats gone wrong?
    Quantum Covid.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    I think you're assuming that the wickedness of England becoming personified in Boris and Cummings and the wonderfulness of Scotland becoming personified in Nicola Sturgeon are a good thing for the course of Scottish nationalism. Neither is necessarily true.
    All this stereotyping really does Unionism more harm than good. You just love attacking straw men. It’ll end in tears.
    You can put it any way that you wish. Sturgeon (as I have said) is a talented politician and has had a good coronavirus
    Only if you aren't paying attention.

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1265923060470857729?s=20

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    TimT said:

    Andrew said:


    Duration, Distance, MASSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKS...


    Saw a thing from Japan, where they judge public transport isn't really a big danger ..... because everyone wears masks.

    Also interesting they think the fact nobody is speaking matters (presumably because it means less virus getting expelled?)
    Speech expels more of the size of droplet that is most effective in carrying the virus, and further. So speech indoors without masks seems to be one of the biggest contributors to transmission.

    Pronunciation of the 'th' sound is the worst, as it flips the tongue out to an open mouth with heavier exhalation than most other phonemes. Had not thought about it before now, but given that 'the' is the most common word in the English language, I wonder if this has contributed to the outcomes in the UK and USA?

    PS that, their, there, them, they, then, this, these and than all also make the top 100 in English.
    Stay home, speak French, save lives!

    Great video, thanks, should be mandatory viewing!
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Andrew said:


    Duration, Distance, MASSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKS...


    Saw a thing from Japan, where they judge public transport isn't really a big danger ..... because everyone wears masks.

    Also interesting they think the fact nobody is speaking matters (presumably because it means less virus getting expelled?)
    Speech expels more of the size of droplet that is most effective in carrying the virus, and further. So speech indoors without masks seems to be one of the biggest contributors to transmission.

    Pronunciation of the 'th' sound is the worst, as it flips the tongue out to an open mouth with heavier exhalation than most other phonemes. Had not thought about it before now, but given that 'the' is the most common word in the English language, I wonder if this has contributed to the outcomes in the UK and USA?

    PS that, their, there, them, they, then, this, these and than all also make the top 100 in English.
    Stay home, speak French, save lives!

    Great video, thanks, should be mandatory viewing!
    I was thinking the Welsh Ll (Llandidno) and Arabic kh (khasatan) and hard H (Hand il allah) phonemes are probably worse than 'th'.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    So Mogg recalled Parliament to backup BoZo at PMQs

    But PHE has declared the voting lobbies unsafe, so they can't vote.

    And they can't sit remotely.

    Still, least it distracts from Cummings...
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    eadric said:

    Andrew said:

    eadric said:


    And now I've almost given up. Britons just won't wear them en masse, in places the number of mask wearers is going down. I'm not quite sure why.

    I saw a queue outside a shop yesterday, and all 6 were wearing masks. For a minor fraction of a second I had hope, then I got closer and saw it was a Chinese shop, as were all the customers.

    Literally nobody else I saw all day wore a mask *facedesk*
    Yes, it looks like coronavirus will finally prove all those controversial IQ/race theories are right. East Asians are about 5 IQ points smarter than westerners, on average. So the Asians wear masks and we die.

    What I didn't expect is for Britons to have the lowest mask-IQ in the world.
    I blame the climate. Britain is very much an indoor culture. Fresh air is so precious to us that we refuse to have our inhalation of it compromised.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Andrew said:


    Duration, Distance, MASSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKS...


    Saw a thing from Japan, where they judge public transport isn't really a big danger ..... because everyone wears masks.

    Also interesting they think the fact nobody is speaking matters (presumably because it means less virus getting expelled?)
    Speech expels more of the size of droplet that is most effective in carrying the virus, and further. So speech indoors without masks seems to be one of the biggest contributors to transmission.

    Pronunciation of the 'th' sound is the worst, as it flips the tongue out to an open mouth with heavier exhalation than most other phonemes. Had not thought about it before now, but given that 'the' is the most common word in the English language, I wonder if this has contributed to the outcomes in the UK and USA?

    PS that, their, there, them, they, then, this, these and than all also make the top 100 in English.
    Stay home, speak French, save lives!

    Great video, thanks, should be mandatory viewing!
    I was thinking the Welsh Ll (Llandidno) and Arabic kh (khasatan) and hard H (Hand il allah) phonemes are probably worse than 'th'.
    Fortunately my Welsh and Arabic are very rusty. I am trying to learn Spanish but fear the speed the native speaker talks at might be a problem re spreading the virus? Or does the speed not matter much?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    edited May 2020
    TGOHF666 said:

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    I think you're assuming that the wickedness of England becoming personified in Boris and Cummings and the wonderfulness of Scotland becoming personified in Nicola Sturgeon are a good thing for the course of Scottish nationalism. Neither is necessarily true.
    All this stereotyping really does Unionism more harm than good. You just love attacking straw men. It’ll end in tears.
    You can put it any way that you wish. Sturgeon (as I have said) is a talented politician and has had a good coronavirus
    Only if you aren't paying attention.

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1265923060470857729?s=20

    Boris mentioned the care homes scandal in Scotland and Wales during yesterday's train wreck. Did he miss anywhere?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413
    eadric said:

    Andrew said:

    eadric said:


    And now I've almost given up. Britons just won't wear them en masse, in places the number of mask wearers is going down. I'm not quite sure why.

    I saw a queue outside a shop yesterday, and all 6 were wearing masks. For a minor fraction of a second I had hope, then I got closer and saw it was a Chinese shop, as were all the customers.

    Literally nobody else I saw all day wore a mask *facedesk*
    Yes, it looks like coronavirus will finally prove all those controversial IQ/race theories are right. East Asians are about 5 IQ points smarter than westerners, on average. So the Asians wear masks and we die.

    What I didn't expect is for Britons to have the lowest mask-IQ in the world.
    It is oh so peculiar isn't it? Reports from Germany suggest widespread mask wearing.
    They are culturally very close to us.
    Other than the government telling us for 2 months that they don't work, I can't think of a decent explanation.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    TimT said:

    Andrew said:


    Duration, Distance, MASSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKS...


    Saw a thing from Japan, where they judge public transport isn't really a big danger ..... because everyone wears masks.

    Also interesting they think the fact nobody is speaking matters (presumably because it means less virus getting expelled?)
    Speech expels more of the size of droplet that is most effective in carrying the virus, and further. So speech indoors without masks seems to be one of the biggest contributors to transmission.

    Pronunciation of the 'th' sound is the worst, as it flips the tongue out to an open mouth with heavier exhalation than most other phonemes. Had not thought about it before now, but given that 'the' is the most common word in the English language, I wonder if this has contributed to the outcomes in the UK and USA?

    PS that, their, there, them, they, then, this, these and than all also make the top 100 in English.
    Interesting. This virus's extraordinary features seem to give it a range of differentiated targets which we are learning about in real time.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    Andrew said:

    eadric said:


    And now I've almost given up. Britons just won't wear them en masse, in places the number of mask wearers is going down. I'm not quite sure why.

    I saw a queue outside a shop yesterday, and all 6 were wearing masks. For a minor fraction of a second I had hope, then I got closer and saw it was a Chinese shop, as were all the customers.

    Literally nobody else I saw all day wore a mask *facedesk*
    Yes, it looks like coronavirus will finally prove all those controversial IQ/race theories are right. East Asians are about 5 IQ points smarter than westerners, on average. So the Asians wear masks and we die.

    What I didn't expect is for Britons to have the lowest mask-IQ in the world.
    It is oh so peculiar isn't it? Reports from Germany suggest widespread mask wearing.
    They are culturally very close to us.
    Other than the government telling us for 2 months that they don't work, I can't think of a decent explanation.
    This isn't meant as a joke but Personal Judgement.

    Oh and the inability of most people in the UK to sew anything.
  • Wonder how long Alex Massie will keep his Spectator column? He must cause huge discomfort at the top, and among the readership.
    The comments on that article were insane and drove me to cancel my subscription, for the second time in two years. Got a nice bottle of gin from them though this time around.

    It's strange, I've been reading it since I was about 16 but its only in the last few years that I've found it uniformly unbearable.

    The presence of Mary Wakefield on the back page is hardly a selling point either...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    eadric said:

    Andrew said:

    eadric said:


    And now I've almost given up. Britons just won't wear them en masse, in places the number of mask wearers is going down. I'm not quite sure why.

    I saw a queue outside a shop yesterday, and all 6 were wearing masks. For a minor fraction of a second I had hope, then I got closer and saw it was a Chinese shop, as were all the customers.

    Literally nobody else I saw all day wore a mask *facedesk*
    Yes, it looks like coronavirus will finally prove all those controversial IQ/race theories are right. East Asians are about 5 IQ points smarter than westerners, on average. So the Asians wear masks and we die.

    What I didn't expect is for Britons to have the lowest mask-IQ in the world.
    I blame the climate. Britain is very much an indoor culture. Fresh air is so precious to us that we refuse to have our inhalation of it compromised.
    Or even infected air it would seem.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited May 2020
    eadric said:

    Shades of Nick Griffin and his pigs.
    I'm sure the 'political correctness gone mad, he's only havin' a laff' merchants will be along shortly.
    And Alan Clark with his dog called Eva Braun

    This isn't entirely a rightwing thing, a lot of it is posh people being outrageous, pour epater les bourgeois, to show how posh they really are; ie, they can get away with it
    Yes, posh boys are far more likely than the norm to wave their willies around and "risque" stuff like that, aren't they? Do it apropos of absolutely nothing and I think you're right - it's to do with the sense of entitlement. From this comes a lack of self-consciousness and a feeling of being extremely "comfortable in their own skin". This latter is often viewed as an attribute but I've never thought so. If ever somebody is described to me as being "comfortable in their own skin", I always picture a smug bastard. And so it usually proves when I get to meet them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    @Philip_Thompson

    Hi Philip

    Do you believe Cummings story about the Castle expedition? I mean do you, personally, actually believe he was telling the truth?

    Sort of.

    In the full context of he felt like it was a good idea to drive to see if he was up to the pressures of driving then yes I do. I've done similar before. I think a half hour trip is a great idea before a cross country drive if you have any concerns and I've done that before.

    On the out of context word of "eyesight" and an eyesight discussion alone? No.

    Does that make sense?
    Pure comedy gold. Again.

    You, mr will no one think of the children, have in the past worried that your eyesight is not up to driving so you have shouted over to Mrs T: come on luv grab the kids we're going for a drive.

    You've done that.
    No, read again, not eyesight. I said not eyesight!

    My specific word when I said about "eyesight" was "No."

    Doing a half hour drive when I'm concerned about my stamina etc to do a five hour drive, yes I have done that.
    Ah. Ok. How would you know from a half hour drive whether you had the stamina for a five hour drive?
    You just know. Trust your instincts. EG do you feel up to continue driving or do you feel exhausted?

    As I said when we first discussed this, it was a tip I got from an RAC guy when I was 18, inexperienced and at university and I've followed it since - if you're feeling a bit rusty then a half hour drive is good exercise for both you and your car.
    Ummm... But wouldn't you want the half hour drive to end back at your own place? Otherwise you find yourself marooned half an hour (at least) from home and unfit to drive.

    More seriously, even if this was a perfectly understandable...

    ...Given it was combined with a bit of a walk around Barnard Castle at the other end, then it certainly wasn't in line with the rules.

  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    My musings about how language, through speech, might result in differential transmission rates, are just that, musings. However, I might well toss it into the mix in my weekly Tuesday Zoom meeting with biorisk management experts. The group includes researchers from MIT's Media Lab ... Maybe one of them might find it an interesting challenge.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    Carnyx said:

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    I think you're assuming that the wickedness of England becoming personified in Boris and Cummings and the wonderfulness of Scotland becoming personified in Nicola Sturgeon are a good thing for the course of Scottish nationalism. Neither is necessarily true.
    All this stereotyping really does Unionism more harm than good. You just love attacking straw men. It’ll end in tears.
    Also the assumption it's all about ****ing England. If it were, we'd be having Bannockburn parades down the Royal Mile every June (cf. Unionists and the Boyne). Instead, we put that well-known Independista Neil Oliver in charge there! (mind, he is also a battlefield archaeologist and has done a lot to promote conflict archaeology). (edited)
    You can call it an assumption if you wish, but I have lived here for around 10 years now. I'd call it a conclusion.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Re Asia vs Europe

    In Europe we have big seasonal peaks and troughs in colds, flus and coronaviruses.

    In Asia its a flatter problem with far less seasonality but has a lower peak.

    This still applied before masks were widely worn in Asia.

    They are just different. I dont know if the reason is climate, demographics, habits, buildings or a mix of them, but it isnt just or even primarily mask usage.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    TGOHF666 said:

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    Yep, some Scottish Tories get it (though it could be said the ones visibly crapping themselves and spouting ever more virulent guff also get it).

    https://twitter.com/akmaciver/status/1265980675007680512?s=20
    I think you're assuming that the wickedness of England becoming personified in Boris and Cummings and the wonderfulness of Scotland becoming personified in Nicola Sturgeon are a good thing for the course of Scottish nationalism. Neither is necessarily true.
    All this stereotyping really does Unionism more harm than good. You just love attacking straw men. It’ll end in tears.
    You can put it any way that you wish. Sturgeon (as I have said) is a talented politician and has had a good coronavirus
    Only if you aren't paying attention.

    https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1265923060470857729?s=20

    Happily for her, people aren't. No point in denying that.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Wonder how long Alex Massie will keep his Spectator column? He must cause huge discomfort at the top, and among the readership.
    Poor Alex - he must look at how tabloid simpleton Murray Foote landed on his feet with a cushy home sinecure while his commissions dry up - this lurch to the Nat may help his pension fund yet...

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Coronavirus cases are falling at roughly the same rate across the UK, according to a leading scientist advising the government.

    Prof Graham Medley said there was no evidence of differences in the reproduction (R) number across the UK.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52820218
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    Andrew said:

    eadric said:


    And now I've almost given up. Britons just won't wear them en masse, in places the number of mask wearers is going down. I'm not quite sure why.

    I saw a queue outside a shop yesterday, and all 6 were wearing masks. For a minor fraction of a second I had hope, then I got closer and saw it was a Chinese shop, as were all the customers.

    Literally nobody else I saw all day wore a mask *facedesk*
    Yes, it looks like coronavirus will finally prove all those controversial IQ/race theories are right. East Asians are about 5 IQ points smarter than westerners, on average. So the Asians wear masks and we die.

    What I didn't expect is for Britons to have the lowest mask-IQ in the world.
    It is oh so peculiar isn't it? Reports from Germany suggest widespread mask wearing.
    They are culturally very close to us.
    Other than the government telling us for 2 months that they don't work, I can't think of a decent explanation.
    But even that doesn't cover it, believe it or not. Other countries' governments did the same ridiculous about-turn on mask wearing, going from masks are bad to masks are good overnight. Canada, America, France: it happened in lots of places

    Yet those countries are now adapting to masking, and Britain, almost uniquely, is not.
    We are indeed near the bottom in terms of usage, but the Scandi countries have even less mask usage, including Norway which is fine.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited May 2020
    Reminder for all you politics nerds: The National Theatre stream of This House kicks off at 7pm this evening (available until 4th June). It's a good evening's entertainment, but you might need to brush up on your 1970s politics and the personalities involved first.

    Preview here:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=biWLqc84mgY&feature=youtu.be
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    TGOHF666 said:

    Wonder how long Alex Massie will keep his Spectator column? He must cause huge discomfort at the top, and among the readership.
    Poor Alex - he must look at how tabloid simpleton Murray Foote landed on his feet with a cushy home sinecure while his commissions dry up - this lurch to the Nat may help his pension fund yet...

    Eh? The Speccie is hardly a 'Nat' journal, unless you mean Britnat.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    edited May 2020

    Wonder how long Alex Massie will keep his Spectator column? He must cause huge discomfort at the top, and among the readership.
    In fairness, The Speccie has rarely baulked at publishing articles absolutely slagging off Boris. This one from Nick Cohen, previously of this parish, was a good effort.

    Boris Johnson is a former editor of this newspaper, and as such has the right to be treated with a courtesy Spectator journalists do not normally extend to politicians who do not enjoy his advantages.

    I am therefore writing with the caution of a lawyer and the deference of a palace flunkey when I say that Johnson showed this morning that he is a man without principle or shame. He is a braying charlatan, who lacks the courage even to be an honest bastard, for there is a kind of bastardly integrity in showing the world who you really are, but instead uses the tactics of the coward and the tricks of the fraudster to advance his worthless career.


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-s-attack-on-barack-obama-belongs-in-the-gutter
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Guilt by association? Always a sign of desperation.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    Does he have any biological/genetic training, please? (seriously.)
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    edited May 2020

    Coronavirus cases are falling at roughly the same rate across the UK, according to a leading scientist advising the government.

    Prof Graham Medley said there was no evidence of differences in the reproduction (R) number across the UK.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52820218

    Difficult to make head or tail of that report, but I'm guessing what they mean is that the differences aren't statistically significant - which of course is something quite different.

    I don't know whether this has been posted already:
    UK suffers highest death rate from coronavirus
    https://www.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0

    I thought one of the most interesting bits of information was that excess deaths in London, as a percentage of the population, were not very much larger than for the UK as a whole, namely, about 0.11% compared with about 0.09%.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    I'm really struggling to see what we think we're wandering into with this all-purpose 'look how awful Dominic Cummings' family is'. It's quite disturbing.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    TimT said:

    Andrew said:


    Duration, Distance, MASSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKS...


    Saw a thing from Japan, where they judge public transport isn't really a big danger ..... because everyone wears masks.

    Also interesting they think the fact nobody is speaking matters (presumably because it means less virus getting expelled?)
    Speech expels more of the size of droplet that is most effective in carrying the virus, and further. So speech indoors without masks seems to be one of the biggest contributors to transmission.

    Pronunciation of the 'th' sound is the worst, as it flips the tongue out to an open mouth with heavier exhalation than most other phonemes. Had not thought about it before now, but given that 'the' is the most common word in the English language, I wonder if this has contributed to the outcomes in the UK and USA?

    PS that, their, there, them, they, then, this, these and than all also make the top 100 in English.
    Hmm thounds dodgy to me. Which other languages have the Th sound? Spain (check) but not Latin American Spanish but Ecuador and Mexico are hot spots. Greek has lots of thetas but Greece is low down on the deaths per capita list.
    Belgium, Switzerland and Italy have been hit hard with no "Th" sound anywhere to be seen. And Australia/New Zealand have been sucess stories who of course speak English.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556

    I'm really struggling to see what we think we're wandering into with this all-purpose 'look how awful Dominic Cummings' family is'. It's quite disturbing.
    Well, the witch-hunt against the primary target failed, so now the witch-hunters will just go after his family instead.

    It's an attitude more medieval than Chillingham Castle itself...
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    This will definitely win back the front pages.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    The sins of the father(-in-law) are not vested upon the son(-in-law).

    However disturbing it might be (and I've not watched it), it can have no bearing on Dominic Cummings.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited May 2020
    Chris said:


    ....
    I thought one of the most interesting bits of information was that excess deaths in London, as a percentage of the population, were not very much larger than for the UK as a whole, namely, about 0.11% compared with about 0.09%.

    London is shown as having 130% more deaths than normal in the period, though, compared with 65% more for the UK as a whole, so on that measure it has been disproportionately badly hit. I think the figures you quote might be distorted by the different age distributions in each region (i.e. London has a younger population, so starts from a lower base in deaths per 1000).
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    rcs1000 said:

    The sins of the father(-in-law) are not vested upon the son(-in-law).

    However disturbing it might be (and I've not watched it), it can have no bearing on Dominic Cummings.
    Perhaps the knowledge that Cummings had the welfare of a third-generation genius to consider would help the public to understand his actions.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Boris taking conference at 5.00pm
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    .
    Carnyx said:

    Does he have any biological/genetic training, please? (seriously.)
    This is a bit weird/creepy rather than 'incredibly disturbing'; it's not as though he's in government.

    And no - he's an 'expert in antiques and architecture', according to Wikipedia. Though aptly, he is a member of the Society of Dilettanti...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    Wonder how long Alex Massie will keep his Spectator column? He must cause huge discomfort at the top, and among the readership.
    In fairness, The Speccie has rarely baulked at publishing articles absolutely slagging off Boris. This one from Nick Cohen, previously of this parish, was a good effort.

    Boris Johnson is a former editor of this newspaper, and as such has the right to be treated with a courtesy Spectator journalists do not normally extend to politicians who do not enjoy his advantages.

    I am therefore writing with the caution of a lawyer and the deference of a palace flunkey when I say that Johnson showed this morning that he is a man without principle or shame. He is a braying charlatan, who lacks the courage even to be an honest bastard, for there is a kind of bastardly integrity in showing the world who you really are, but instead uses the tactics of the coward and the tricks of the fraudster to advance his worthless career.


    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-johnson-s-attack-on-barack-obama-belongs-in-the-gutter
    That has aged rather well.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    TOPPING said:

    @Philip_Thompson

    Hi Philip

    Do you believe Cummings story about the Castle expedition? I mean do you, personally, actually believe he was telling the truth?

    Sort of.

    In the full context of he felt like it was a good idea to drive to see if he was up to the pressures of driving then yes I do. I've done similar before. I think a half hour trip is a great idea before a cross country drive if you have any concerns and I've done that before.

    On the out of context word of "eyesight" and an eyesight discussion alone? No.

    Does that make sense?
    Pure comedy gold. Again.

    You, mr will no one think of the children, have in the past worried that your eyesight is not up to driving so you have shouted over to Mrs T: come on luv grab the kids we're going for a drive.

    You've done that.
    No, read again, not eyesight. I said not eyesight!

    My specific word when I said about "eyesight" was "No."

    Doing a half hour drive when I'm concerned about my stamina etc to do a five hour drive, yes I have done that.
    Trying to think of other areas of human activity where a bloke might try something for a short time to check if he has the stamina to do it for much longer.

    Not much springs to mind. Painting a ceiling maybe?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited May 2020

    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    What does Ian Blackford know that the Durham constabulary don't?
    There's a difference between whether this was a criminal act and how it appears to the 50m+ people who have been following the rules. The one beneficiary of Cummings still keeping his job is Starmer.
    The political damage has been done, the evidence is there for all to see but the alt-righties still don't get it (or pretend not to).

    Sadly the current government is far closer to UKIP than any previous Conservative government I have ever known. Traditional Tory PBers like Richard Nabavi, David Herdson, Max B etc have headed for the exit while their places have been taken by Trumpton-like shrills like BluestBlue, Brom, TGOHF and Oxymandias. I don't believe it will end well but we will just have to wait and see.

  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    eadric said:

    dixiedean said:

    eadric said:

    Andrew said:

    eadric said:


    And now I've almost given up. Britons just won't wear them en masse, in places the number of mask wearers is going down. I'm not quite sure why.

    I saw a queue outside a shop yesterday, and all 6 were wearing masks. For a minor fraction of a second I had hope, then I got closer and saw it was a Chinese shop, as were all the customers.

    Literally nobody else I saw all day wore a mask *facedesk*
    Yes, it looks like coronavirus will finally prove all those controversial IQ/race theories are right. East Asians are about 5 IQ points smarter than westerners, on average. So the Asians wear masks and we die.

    What I didn't expect is for Britons to have the lowest mask-IQ in the world.
    It is oh so peculiar isn't it? Reports from Germany suggest widespread mask wearing.
    They are culturally very close to us.
    Other than the government telling us for 2 months that they don't work, I can't think of a decent explanation.
    But even that doesn't cover it, believe it or not. Other countries' governments did the same ridiculous about-turn on mask wearing, going from masks are bad to masks are good overnight. Canada, America, France: it happened in lots of places

    Yet those countries are now adapting to masking, and Britain, almost uniquely, is not.
    Mask wearing in Germany is compulsory in shops (enforced) many work situations (eg waiters)(enforced by employers) and in public transport (not enforced but widely adhered to). It is also widely adopted when you are near to others.

    When outside going for a walk and you pass quickly past others with about 2 meters distance very few people wear masks, maybe 20%.

    This is at least my view from Berlin. I've not been outside the city since the beginning of February.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    edited May 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    The sins of the father(-in-law) are not vested upon the son(-in-law).

    However disturbing it might be (and I've not watched it), it can have no bearing on Dominic Cummings.
    Isn't that rather the point in Dad's thesis {edit} - that the sins, or at least genes, are indeed manifest in the sprogs and sprogs' sprogs?
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019

    Shades of Nick Griffin and his pigs.
    I'm sure the 'political correctness gone mad, he's only havin' a laff' merchants will be along shortly.
    Ah, the people's Brexit. Sticking it to the elites!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,885
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Carnyx said:

    Does he have any biological/genetic training, please? (seriously.)
    This is a bit weird/creepy rather than 'incredibly disturbing'; it's not as though he's in government.

    And no - he's an 'expert in antiques and architecture', according to Wikipedia. Though aptly, he is a member of the Society of Dilettanti...
    Thank you.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Boris taking conference at 5.00pm

    We are looking for:
    - England risk level to be reduced from 4 to 3
    - Social gathering provisions similar to what Sturgeon announced earlier to be applied, let's go for max group of 10 to keep ahead of SNP!
    - Constructive intention to reopen open air hospitality eg pubs before 4 July
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225

    I'm really struggling to see what we think we're wandering into with this all-purpose 'look how awful Dominic Cummings' family is'. It's quite disturbing.
    It's utterly irrelevant to current politics unless he's a secret government advisor.
    Which seems exceedingly unlikely (though with this government I wouldn't say utterly impossible.)
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,294

    HYUFD said:

    At the start of lockdown Sturgeon’s SNP had poll leads of up to 14% – now the latest two surveys have that up at 25%.

    At this rate independence might happen quite soon.

    On the face of it the polling trends look worrying for the Conservatives and good for the SNP which is seeing a lot of progress in getting the gap larger.

    For the SNP the really positive thing has been the improvement in the leader ratings.

    The big question is how will this now go? Can BoJo/Dom stop any further erosion or is Sturgeon’s big ratings progress going to be translated into even better voting intention numbers? We don’t know, which is why the Unionist media commission so few Scottish polls.

    The main concern for the SNP of course is Starmer's high rating with Scots if that leads to SNP voters returning to Scottish Labour.

    Independence of course is off the menu for the rest of this parliament, the Tory manifesto ruled out indyref2 for a generation and the actions of China today in effectively banning any Hong Kong autonomy and Spain in Catalonia means Boris looks relatively reasonable when he bans indyref2
    Ah yes, Beijing and Madrid, those great beacons of liberty and democracy so admired by The Herd.

    As for Starmer, I’m a big fan and always have been. As I’ve said many times before, if we are to successfully dissolve the Union to the mutual benefit of all the peoples of these islands, then we need mature, competent, compassionate and intelligent leaders of all the principal parties. Starmer is the best leader Labour have had in decades, and I warmly welcome him.

    I’m not sure that I’d call his +5 to +10 among Scots voters “high ratings”, but that is a mere quibble. Some SNP voters might lend a vote to Starmer, but come IndyRef2 they’ll still be Yes.
    It isn't so much that Starmer needs people who voted Yes in 2014 to vote No in any Indyref2, but those who voted No in 2014 but are tempted by indy following Brexit and Boris, to vote No again. And my suspicion is such swing voters like Starmer and would be favourable towards a Labour government led by him. To win Indyref what the SNP needs is a bogeyman, and Boris is ideal for that role. Problem is it's much less likely he'll grant you that second independence referendum than a Labour government (especially a Labour government reliant on the SNP to get through its programme) would. The 'SNP indyref2 paradox' is that you need a Labour government in power to grant you indyref2, but you need a Conservative one in charge in to win it.
This discussion has been closed.