I see Labour on manoeuvres in this cross party 'Get Boris' powow. Sadly I am not tactically minded enough to guess what they're up to, but it feels like that clever Mr. Starmer is up to something, and the nationalists should be wary - they aren't dealing with Corbyn anymore.
The sensible thing for them to do is something Parliamentary at the first Opposition Day debate - make the Tory MPs walk through the lobbies to oppose a motion censuring the PM for the conduct of his advisor. To be immediately followed by a letter-writing campaign to all the Tory MPs from "their constituents" about how upset/annoyed/furious they are that their MP doesn't hate Cummings as much as they do.
I imagine that getting everyone active for an opposition party in a Tory seat to write an individual letter, with their own sad story, at the same time, might have something of an affect on the MP's mailbox.
I don't know why I'm giving them advice though.
I think it's also got to do with Labour lovebombing the SNP. Remember their route to power is through Scotland.
The most worrying point about this saga is the fact that almost noone seems to understand the difference between quarantine and lockdown.
Can't we have an English word - One is French and the other probably American ! Maybe a suggestion would be a Refrain!
Quarantine is derived Venetian, not French. It refers to the 40 days crew had to wait on ships before they could disembark when they arrived in Venice.
At Ragusa (modern Dubrovnik), not Venice, I believe.
That's one massive Tory-reading paper they've got back onside, as least on the front page.
For all the damage that the Cummings episode has done to the government, there's a silver lining for them. The less sympathetic media took their eye off the ball. Over the weekend the UK drew ahead of Italy in per capita deaths on the official daily stats, and no-one noticed.
I see Labour on manoeuvres in this cross party 'Get Boris' powow. Sadly I am not tactically minded enough to guess what they're up to, but it feels like that clever Mr. Starmer is up to something, and the nationalists should be wary - they aren't dealing with Corbyn anymore.
The sensible thing for them to do is something Parliamentary at the first Opposition Day debate - make the Tory MPs walk through the lobbies to oppose a motion censuring the PM for the conduct of his advisor. To be immediately followed by a letter-writing campaign to all the Tory MPs from "their constituents" about how upset/annoyed/furious they are that their MP doesn't hate Cummings as much as they do.
I imagine that getting everyone active for an opposition party in a Tory seat to write an individual letter, with their own sad story, at the same time, might have something of an affect on the MP's mailbox.
I don't know why I'm giving them advice though.
I think it's also got to do with Labour lovebombing the SNP. Remember their route to power is through Scotland.
That's one massive Tory-reading paper they've got back onside, as least on the front page.
For all the damage that the Cummings episode has done to the government, there's a silver lining for them. The less sympathetic media took their eye off the ball. Over the weekend the UK drew ahead of Italy in per capita deaths on the official daily stats, and no-one noticed.
There's plenty that's been missed, but the Lobby mob had waited two months for an old-fashioned political lynching and couldn't help themselves - even if they didn't get the witch this time around.
That's one massive Tory-reading paper they've got back onside, as least on the front page.
For all the damage that the Cummings episode has done to the government, there's a silver lining for them. The less sympathetic media took their eye off the ball. Over the weekend the UK drew ahead of Italy in per capita deaths on the official daily stats, and no-one noticed.
If only we'd had a couple of extra weeks over Italy to prepare, eh?
The most worrying point about this saga is the fact that almost noone seems to understand the difference between quarantine and lockdown.
Can't we have an English word - One is French and the other probably American ! Maybe a suggestion would be a Refrain!
Quarantine is derived Venetian, not French. It refers to the 40 days crew had to wait on ships before they could disembark when they arrived in Venice.
At Ragusa (modern Dubrovnik), not Venice, I believe.
You encouraged me to look it up. Apparently Ragusa first imposed the Trentino (30 days) followed by the 40 days of the Venetian Republic. Venice strikes me as a bit of a one up (or ten up) sort of a place.
The most worrying point about this saga is the fact that almost noone seems to understand the difference between quarantine and lockdown.
Can't we have an English word - One is French and the other probably American ! Maybe a suggestion would be a Refrain!
Quarantine is derived Venetian, not French. It refers to the 40 days crew had to wait on ships before they could disembark when they arrived in Venice.
At Ragusa (modern Dubrovnik), not Venice, I believe.
The most worrying point about this saga is the fact that almost noone seems to understand the difference between quarantine and lockdown.
Can't we have an English word - One is French and the other probably American ! Maybe a suggestion would be a Refrain!
Quarantine is derived Venetian, not French. It refers to the 40 days crew had to wait on ships before they could disembark when they arrived in Venice.
At Ragusa (modern Dubrovnik), not Venice, I believe.
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
Because people talking face to face is far more likely to spread the virus than people shopping on their own.
I mean, honestly, do you really think that we can just go back to normal in every aspect of our daily life, and that the virus magically won't spread this time, the way it did in March?
Think about it - this huge wave of disease that has engulfed the world and killed a third of a million people developed, within just a month or two, from at most a few hundred infections from China.
In the UK, according to the ONS survey, we currently still have well over 100,000 people who are infected.
Milder than yesterday. They won't be panicking. By Wednesday this will likely be over
If you say so.
People have longer memories than other people think.
Indeed. People who already hated Cummings due to Brexit etc will add this to their grievance list to bring up time and again in the future.
Rest of the country will move on.
Like last election when one side of the debate were dredging up quotes from Johnson articles decades old to rant about how evil Johnson is. Worked out well didn't it?
1. You've lost the argument if you start citing fuel tank capacity and the bladder capacity of a 4 year old to support your case. 2. Hatred of Cummings blinds some. The Guardian clearly rushed to judgment before checking all the facts. CHB clearly failed to understand the significance of the statement by Durham Police before rushing to judge that it was crucifying, prior to asking what it meant. 3. Those who pronounced their verdict before hearing all the evidence displayed their liberal left pro-EU prejudice (The Bishops), their panic (a few Tory MPs) or their trolling (CHB), or were JHB. 4. 20 Tory MPs calling for Cummings to go suggests 345 Tory MPs did not feel strongly enough to agree, for whatever reason. Do the math. 5. Boris will not take the easy option if he thinks doing so is wrong. He thinks dumping Cummings would have been unfair, or would damage the government or both. Those who think he just wants to be popular are just plain wrong. 6. The next GE will almost certainly not be for another 4 years. By the time the voters deliver their verdict, Cummings' trip to Durham will be long forgotten. 7. Big G is correct, the next GE will be depend on how well the voters think the government handles the economy. Unless of course the Corbynite wing leaves Labour and we get a re-run of 1983.
Good night all.
Cummings is lucky that it is 4 years until the next General Election and almost a year to the next election of any sort. He is also lucky that we are in the process of coming out of lockdown.
The key question is whether it does any lasting damage or if it all blows over.
I see Labour on manoeuvres in this cross party 'Get Boris' powow. Sadly I am not tactically minded enough to guess what they're up to, but it feels like that clever Mr. Starmer is up to something, and the nationalists should be wary - they aren't dealing with Corbyn anymore.
The sensible thing for them to do is something Parliamentary at the first Opposition Day debate - make the Tory MPs walk through the lobbies to oppose a motion censuring the PM for the conduct of his advisor. To be immediately followed by a letter-writing campaign to all the Tory MPs from "their constituents" about how upset/annoyed/furious they are that their MP doesn't hate Cummings as much as they do.
I imagine that getting everyone active for an opposition party in a Tory seat to write an individual letter, with their own sad story, at the same time, might have something of an affect on the MP's mailbox.
I don't know why I'm giving them advice though.
I think it's also got to do with Labour lovebombing the SNP. Remember their route to power is through Scotland.
That's mad. The SNP is Labour's sworn and mortal enemy. They might both be social democratic parties but as long as the SNP thrives in Scotland, a path to a GE victory is very very hard for Labour. And the SNP will not compromise on indy to help a Labour government, it goes against their DNA.
Moreover, the biggest threat to the SNP is a Labour revival in Scotland. Unlikely, but not impossible. Scottish politics has surprised us before.
A Labour-SNP alliance is rather like the Hitler-Stalin pact in 1940
Yes, I agree, but Starmer isn't stupid, and he's not going to get anywhere by berating the SNP, at least initially.
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anywhere indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
We all know the sort of venue you frequented that results in panting...
Milder than yesterday. They won't be panicking. By Wednesday this will likely be over
If you say so.
People have longer memories than other people think.
Indeed. People who already hated Cummings due to Brexit etc will add this to their grievance list to bring up time and again in the future.
Rest of the country will move on.
Like last election when one side of the debate were dredging up quotes from Johnson articles decades old to rant about how evil Johnson is. Worked out well didn't it?
This is it. No-one reads papers, and when people read them online they don't read the full piece. Meanwhile, the Guardian ran for days and days on Cummings saying he wanted the virus to just run through the population - the SAGE minutes will be released eventually and we'll see if that was true or not, but it sounds like bullshit.
Plus you know someone's a moron if they take a story to the Guardian. An intelligent person would have got a photo of Cummings, out at Barnard Castle, and sold it to the Sun for £1000.
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anywhere indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
We all know the sort of venue you frequented that results in panting...
Milder than yesterday. They won't be panicking. By Wednesday this will likely be over
If you say so.
People have longer memories than other people think.
Indeed. People who already hated Cummings due to Brexit etc will add this to their grievance list to bring up time and again in the future.
Rest of the country will move on.
Like last election when one side of the debate were dredging up quotes from Johnson articles decades old to rant about how evil Johnson is. Worked out well didn't it?
This is it. No-one reads papers, and when people read them online they don't read the full piece. Meanwhile, the Guardian ran for days and days on Cummings saying he wanted the virus to just run through the population - the SAGE minutes will be released eventually and we'll see if that was true or not, but it sounds like bullshit.
Plus you know someone's a moron if they take a story to the Guardian. An intelligent person would have got a photo of Cummings, out at Barnard Castle, and sold it to the Sun for £1000.
People still take a view on the story, regardless of whether they read newspapers and which newspapers they read.
They take a view on how important it is, and which way they feel about it.
I have a clear view on which way this will go... and it hasn't run its course yet.
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anyway indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
And hospitals. There are quite a few hospital acquired infections now.
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
The Guardian has form in this department. When they get a scoop they like to juice it up, at the start, with a massive lie that gets the ball rolling; by the time everyone realises they lied, then it is too late, the scoop is a thing
Remember this notorious Guardian apology
"On 13 December the following clarification was published: "An article about the investigation into the abduction and death of Milly Dowler (News of the World hacked Milly Dowler's phone during police hunt, 5 July, page 1) stated that voicemail 'messages were deleted by [News of the World] journalists in the first few days after Milly's disappearance in order to free up space for more messages. As a result friends and relatives of Milly concluded wrongly that she might still be alive"
"Since this story was published new evidence – as reported in the Guardian of 10 December – has led the Metropolitan police to believe that this was unlikely to have been correct and that while the News of the World hacked Milly Dowler's phone the newspaper is unlikely to have been responsible for the deletion of a set of voicemails from the phone that caused her parents to have false hopes that she was alive"
They repeated the lie in THIRTY SEVEN articles until they finally retracted
It is quite a brutal and ruthless paper, as bad as the Mail, its eerie twin sister
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anyway indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
And hospitals. There are quite a few hospital acquired infections now.
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
It's potentially getting into personal life territory, particularly the child's.
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anyway indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
And hospitals. There are quite a few hospital acquired infections now.
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
It's potentially getting into personal life territory, particularly the child's.
Why did a viral parent go, rather than one of the carers?
None of the questions that I ask would breech confidentiality.
1. You've lost the argument if you start citing fuel tank capacity and the bladder capacity of a 4 year old to support your case. 2. Hatred of Cummings blinds some. The Guardian clearly rushed to judgment before checking all the facts. CHB clearly failed to understand the significance of the statement by Durham Police before rushing to judge that it was crucifying, prior to asking what it meant. 3. Those who pronounced their verdict before hearing all the evidence displayed their liberal left pro-EU prejudice (The Bishops), their panic (a few Tory MPs) or their trolling (CHB), or were JHB. 4. 20 Tory MPs calling for Cummings to go suggests 345 Tory MPs did not feel strongly enough to agree, for whatever reason. Do the math. 5. Boris will not take the easy option if he thinks doing so is wrong. He thinks dumping Cummings would have been unfair, or would damage the government or both. Those who think he just wants to be popular are just plain wrong. 6. The next GE will almost certainly not be for another 4 years. By the time the voters deliver their verdict, Cummings' trip to Durham will be long forgotten. 7. Big G is correct, the next GE will be depend on how well the voters think the government handles the economy. Unless of course the Corbynite wing leaves Labour and we get a re-run of 1983.
Good night all.
Very well written.
Point 5 especially goes against the stereotype that constantly gets trotted out.
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anyway indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
And hospitals. There are quite a few hospital acquired infections now.
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
It's potentially getting into personal life territory, particularly the child's.
Why did a viral parent go, rather than one of the carers?
None of the questions that I ask would breech confidentiality.
Doesn't that depend on the answer?
(edit: I can imagine possible true answers that would, that are unspoken but implied, e.g. the child visits hospital a lot.)
You think the burning anger of Middle England is going to disappear in a puff of smoke because Cummings weaves his hands in and out of each other and mutters some words of incantation?
Real people have missed holding the hands of dying wives and close family funerals whilst this clown has been burning up and down the by ways of the North East checking his eyes work.
1. You've lost the argument if you start citing fuel tank capacity and the bladder capacity of a 4 year old to support your case. 2. Hatred of Cummings blinds some. The Guardian clearly rushed to judgment before checking all the facts. CHB clearly failed to understand the significance of the statement by Durham Police before rushing to judge that it was crucifying, prior to asking what it meant. 3. Those who pronounced their verdict before hearing all the evidence displayed their liberal left pro-EU prejudice (The Bishops), their panic (a few Tory MPs) or their trolling (CHB), or were JHB. 4. 20 Tory MPs calling for Cummings to go suggests 345 Tory MPs did not feel strongly enough to agree, for whatever reason. Do the math. 5. Boris will not take the easy option if he thinks doing so is wrong. He thinks dumping Cummings would have been unfair, or would damage the government or both. Those who think he just wants to be popular are just plain wrong. 6. The next GE will almost certainly not be for another 4 years. By the time the voters deliver their verdict, Cummings' trip to Durham will be long forgotten. 7. Big G is correct, the next GE will be depend on how well the voters think the government handles the economy. Unless of course the Corbynite wing leaves Labour and we get a re-run of 1983.
Good night all.
Cummings is lucky that it is 4 years until the next General Election and almost a year to the next election of any sort. He is also lucky that we are in the process of coming out of lockdown.
The key question is whether it does any lasting damage or if it all blows over.
The lasting legacies of this episode, I think, will be the phrase "follow my instinct" that will become the riposte to instructions anyone is not minded to follow; jokes about driving to test your eyesight; the Johnson/Cummings regime will bunker down and become yet more despotic.
A bungled Covid-19 response is pretty much baked in, but nobody who rates competence ever votes for Johnson. The risk is if the epidemic takes off again. Then they will be in serious trouble
That's one massive Tory-reading paper they've got back onside, as least on the front page.
For all the damage that the Cummings episode has done to the government, there's a silver lining for them. The less sympathetic media took their eye off the ball. Over the weekend the UK drew ahead of Italy in per capita deaths on the official daily stats, and no-one noticed.
The UK is fifth highest in daily deaths today, and may fall lower as the New World reports. That's the "best" score for weeks. We have been first or usually second for yonks
The point is that the overally cumulative stats now show definitively that the UK been harder hit than ever other European country*, even though we had every reason to expect that we should have got off more lightly given the precious couple of extra weeks grace we were given. Yet rather than refocus on this record of ineptitude, everyone is banging on about Cummings.
By contrast, daily stats in isolation don't tell you very much at all. If I though they did I'd have been banging on here about those quite frequent days recently where the UK's daily toll exceeded the combined toll of Italy, Spain and France, countries in the more advanced stage of recovery. And yes as we recover there are countries such as Brazil which were late to the party and are now coming up on the rails by virtue of having buried their heads in the sand.
[*That's using excess deaths or, where for countries such as Italy for whom up to date comparisons are not unavailable, the per capita daily counts.]
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anyway indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
And hospitals. There are quite a few hospital acquired infections now.
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
It's potentially getting into personal life territory, particularly the child's.
Why did a viral parent go, rather than one of the carers?
None of the questions that I ask would breech confidentiality.
Doesn't that depend on the answer?
(edit: I can imagine possible true answers that would, that are unspoken but implied, e.g. the child visits hospital a lot.)
No.
If the reason to go was to have assistance with childcare, why did a viral parent go into a ward of sick children, rather than one of the aunts, uncles or nieces?
The Guardian has form in this department. When they get a scoop they like to juice it up, at the start, with a massive lie that gets the ball rolling; by the time everyone realises they lied, then it is too late, the scoop is a thing
Remember this notorious Guardian apology
"On 13 December the following clarification was published: "An article about the investigation into the abduction and death of Milly Dowler (News of the World hacked Milly Dowler's phone during police hunt, 5 July, page 1) stated that voicemail 'messages were deleted by [News of the World] journalists in the first few days after Milly's disappearance in order to free up space for more messages. As a result friends and relatives of Milly concluded wrongly that she might still be alive"
"Since this story was published new evidence – as reported in the Guardian of 10 December – has led the Metropolitan police to believe that this was unlikely to have been correct and that while the News of the World hacked Milly Dowler's phone the newspaper is unlikely to have been responsible for the deletion of a set of voicemails from the phone that caused her parents to have false hopes that she was alive"
They repeated the lie in THIRTY SEVEN articles until they finally retracted
It is quite a brutal and ruthless paper, as bad as the Mail, its eerie twin sister
Don't forget (Dominic Cummings won't have done) about Cadwalladr's five consecutive Observer front pages regarding the referendum leave campaigns, data and funding - each one followed by a page 50 correction of material facts regarding the previous week's article.
If the Guardian valued their expert virtuous journalist so high, I have no idea how Carole Conspiracy is still employed by them. Her twitter rants are totally deranged, its left wing version of Alex Jones.
At least she's not a lying felon like Guido.
Exactly, people moan about the Guardian and then quote from Guido without batting an eyelid.
You think the burning anger of Middle England is going to disappear in a puff of smoke because Cummings weaves his hands in and out of each other and mutters some words of incantation?
Real people have missed holding the hands of dying wives and close family funerals whilst this clown has been burning up and down the by ways of the North East checking his eyes work.
Yes. The two minutes hate will move on to something else.
1. You've lost the argument if you start citing fuel tank capacity and the bladder capacity of a 4 year old to support your case. 2. Hatred of Cummings blinds some. The Guardian clearly rushed to judgment before checking all the facts. CHB clearly failed to understand the significance of the statement by Durham Police before rushing to judge that it was crucifying, prior to asking what it meant. 3. Those who pronounced their verdict before hearing all the evidence displayed their liberal left pro-EU prejudice (The Bishops), their panic (a few Tory MPs) or their trolling (CHB), or were JHB. 4. 20 Tory MPs calling for Cummings to go suggests 345 Tory MPs did not feel strongly enough to agree, for whatever reason. Do the math. 5. Boris will not take the easy option if he thinks doing so is wrong. He thinks dumping Cummings would have been unfair, or would damage the government or both. Those who think he just wants to be popular are just plain wrong. 6. The next GE will almost certainly not be for another 4 years. By the time the voters deliver their verdict, Cummings' trip to Durham will be long forgotten. 7. Big G is correct, the next GE will be depend on how well the voters think the government handles the economy. Unless of course the Corbynite wing leaves Labour and we get a re-run of 1983.
Good night all.
Cummings is lucky that it is 4 years until the next General Election and almost a year to the next election of any sort. He is also lucky that we are in the process of coming out of lockdown.
The key question is whether it does any lasting damage or if it all blows over.
The lasting legacies of this episode, I think, will be the phrase "follow my instinct" that will become the riposte to instructions anyone is not minded to follow; jokes about driving to test your eyesight; the Johnson/Cummings regime will bunker down and become yet more despotic.
A bungled Covid-19 response is pretty much baked in, but nobody who rates competence ever votes for Johnson. The risk is if the epidemic takes off again. Then they will be in serious trouble
If Gupta of Oxford is right then Johnson gets away with all this.
If she and her team are wrong then the 2nd wave will sweep Johnson into a world of shit he is not prepared for.
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anyway indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
And hospitals. There are quite a few hospital acquired infections now.
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
It's potentially getting into personal life territory, particularly the child's.
Why did a viral parent go, rather than one of the carers?
None of the questions that I ask would breech confidentiality.
Doesn't that depend on the answer?
(edit: I can imagine possible true answers that would, that are unspoken but implied, e.g. the child visits hospital a lot.)
No.
If the reason to go was to have assistance with childcare, why did a viral parent go into a ward of sick children, rather than one of the aunts, uncles or nieces?
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anyway indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
And hospitals. There are quite a few hospital acquired infections now.
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
It's potentially getting into personal life territory, particularly the child's.
Why did a viral parent go, rather than one of the carers?
None of the questions that I ask would breech confidentiality.
Doesn't that depend on the answer?
(edit: I can imagine possible true answers that would, that are unspoken but implied, e.g. the child visits hospital a lot.)
No.
If the reason to go was to have assistance with childcare, why did a viral parent go into a ward of sick children, rather than one of the aunts, uncles or nieces?
It makes no sense.
Worse than making no sense, it's bordering on criminal irresponsibility.
The Guardian has form in this department. When they get a scoop they like to juice it up, at the start, with a massive lie that gets the ball rolling; by the time everyone realises they lied, then it is too late, the scoop is a thing
Remember this notorious Guardian apology
"On 13 December the following clarification was published: "An article about the investigation into the abduction and death of Milly Dowler (News of the World hacked Milly Dowler's phone during police hunt, 5 July, page 1) stated that voicemail 'messages were deleted by [News of the World] journalists in the first few days after Milly's disappearance in order to free up space for more messages. As a result friends and relatives of Milly concluded wrongly that she might still be alive"
"Since this story was published new evidence – as reported in the Guardian of 10 December – has led the Metropolitan police to believe that this was unlikely to have been correct and that while the News of the World hacked Milly Dowler's phone the newspaper is unlikely to have been responsible for the deletion of a set of voicemails from the phone that caused her parents to have false hopes that she was alive"
They repeated the lie in THIRTY SEVEN articles until they finally retracted
It is quite a brutal and ruthless paper, as bad as the Mail, its eerie twin sister
Don't forget (Dominic Cummings won't have done) about Cadwalladr's five consecutive Observer front pages regarding the referendum leave campaigns, data and funding - each one followed by a page 50 correction of material facts regarding the previous week's article.
If the Guardian valued their expert virtuous journalist so high, I have no idea how Carole Conspiracy is still employed by them. Her twitter rants are totally deranged, its left wing version of Alex Jones.
At least she's not a lying felon like Guido.
Exactly, people moan about the Guardian and then quote from Guido without batting an eyelid.
At least Guido doesn't claim to be whiter than white, while ranting that whiter than white is a racist phrase.
1. You've lost the argument if you start citing fuel tank capacity and the bladder capacity of a 4 year old to support your case. 2. Hatred of Cummings blinds some. The Guardian clearly rushed to judgment before checking all the facts. CHB clearly failed to understand the significance of the statement by Durham Police before rushing to judge that it was crucifying, prior to asking what it meant. 3. Those who pronounced their verdict before hearing all the evidence displayed their liberal left pro-EU prejudice (The Bishops), their panic (a few Tory MPs) or their trolling (CHB), or were JHB. 4. 20 Tory MPs calling for Cummings to go suggests 345 Tory MPs did not feel strongly enough to agree, for whatever reason. Do the math. 5. Boris will not take the easy option if he thinks doing so is wrong. He thinks dumping Cummings would have been unfair, or would damage the government or both. Those who think he just wants to be popular are just plain wrong. 6. The next GE will almost certainly not be for another 4 years. By the time the voters deliver their verdict, Cummings' trip to Durham will be long forgotten. 7. Big G is correct, the next GE will be depend on how well the voters think the government handles the economy. Unless of course the Corbynite wing leaves Labour and we get a re-run of 1983.
Good night all.
Cummings is lucky that it is 4 years until the next General Election and almost a year to the next election of any sort. He is also lucky that we are in the process of coming out of lockdown.
The key question is whether it does any lasting damage or if it all blows over.
The lasting legacies of this episode, I think, will be the phrase "follow my instinct" that will become the riposte to instructions anyone is not minded to follow; jokes about driving to test your eyesight; the Johnson/Cummings regime will bunker down and become yet more despotic.
A bungled Covid-19 response is pretty much baked in, but nobody who rates competence ever votes for Johnson. The risk is if the epidemic takes off again. Then they will be in serious trouble
If Gupta of Oxford is right then Johnson gets away with all this.
If she and her team are wrong then the 2nd wave will sweep Johnson into a world of shit he is not prepared for.
Unfortunately, I don't see any reason to believe Professor Gupta's models from what I understand of them.
The buggy, erroneous but useful University of Washington covid-19 model - is now whispering about significant second waves, for example, see here in Italy
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anyway indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
And hospitals. There are quite a few hospital acquired infections now.
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
All good points, but I think they are lost in the blizzard of chaff now. So much differing info is bewildering, and boring, people will tune out and say it's Just Politics
The damage has been done to the Tories, Big Bad Dom seems to have survived.
And in the excitement of the last year or so, perhaps we all forgot that most of politics is about changes on the geological timescale, rather than the action movie timescale.
A wise government would have parked Dom somewhere else for a year, but we don't have one of those, because neither Boris or Dom can admit error or do without the other. So he stays. The fact that nobody walked the plank after that Supreme Court ruling should have been a giveaway.
But damage has been done. Some voters who moved across to Boris in 2019 will have shifted back because of this. The most interesting headline tomorrow is the one in Metro; "Stay Elite". That could hurt, especially in a paper that isn't very ideological. It might not be many, but a bit of magic has gone.
More importantly, Dom is Diminished. Can he ever again march a Spad out of Downing Street? He didn't eat much humble pie, but it was on the table. Even the fact he was wearing a proper shirt... he's not quite the same monster as before, and part of his act has been lost.
1. You've lost the argument if you start citing fuel tank capacity and the bladder capacity of a 4 year old to support your case. 2. Hatred of Cummings blinds some. The Guardian clearly rushed to judgment before checking all the facts. CHB clearly failed to understand the significance of the statement by Durham Police before rushing to judge that it was crucifying, prior to asking what it meant. 3. Those who pronounced their verdict before hearing all the evidence displayed their liberal left pro-EU prejudice (The Bishops), their panic (a few Tory MPs) or their trolling (CHB), or were JHB. 4. 20 Tory MPs calling for Cummings to go suggests 345 Tory MPs did not feel strongly enough to agree, for whatever reason. Do the math. 5. Boris will not take the easy option if he thinks doing so is wrong. He thinks dumping Cummings would have been unfair, or would damage the government or both. Those who think he just wants to be popular are just plain wrong. 6. The next GE will almost certainly not be for another 4 years. By the time the voters deliver their verdict, Cummings' trip to Durham will be long forgotten. 7. Big G is correct, the next GE will be depend on how well the voters think the government handles the economy. Unless of course the Corbynite wing leaves Labour and we get a re-run of 1983.
Good night all.
Cummings is lucky that it is 4 years until the next General Election and almost a year to the next election of any sort. He is also lucky that we are in the process of coming out of lockdown.
The key question is whether it does any lasting damage or if it all blows over.
The lasting legacies of this episode, I think, will be the phrase "follow my instinct" that will become the riposte to instructions anyone is not minded to follow; jokes about driving to test your eyesight; the Johnson/Cummings regime will bunker down and become yet more despotic.
A bungled Covid-19 response is pretty much baked in, but nobody who rates competence ever votes for Johnson. The risk is if the epidemic takes off again. Then they will be in serious trouble
If Gupta of Oxford is right then Johnson gets away with all this.
If she and her team are wrong then the 2nd wave will sweep Johnson into a world of shit he is not prepared for.
There will be a second wave, the only question is when?
You think the burning anger of Middle England is going to disappear in a puff of smoke because Cummings weaves his hands in and out of each other and mutters some words of incantation?
Real people have missed holding the hands of dying wives and close family funerals whilst this clown has been burning up and down the by ways of the North East checking his eyes work.
Yes. The two minutes hate will move on to something else.
We will have to respectfully disagree. Time as ever will decide.
The buggy, erroneous but useful University of Washington covid-19 model - is now whispering about significant second waves, for example, see here in Italy
I think Boris has been dealt a mortal blow. The assertion 'everyone will have forgotten about this by the next general election' is so much guff - Black Wednesday happened at a comparable time into JM's regime. Every political setback that followed was simply magnified by that initial fiasco - JM could never shake it off. We've got the fallout from the virus and, probably, a sub-optimal Brexit still to come. Never mind all the other horrors as yet unseen. I can't see how Boris will ever have the space to recover from this.
Milder than yesterday. They won't be panicking. By Wednesday this will likely be over
The damage to Boris won't be over, his ratings were already on the slide and this certainly isn't going to help. His Press Conferences are dreadful, Starmer bests him at every PMQ and I doubt any of that is going to substantially change.
In their rush towards Brexit the Tories have chosen a leader that's not up to the job. He's soon going to have to be explaining why his government has produced the worst pandemic outcome in Europe. He'll be having to explain why we are the last European country out of lockdown.
When that is beginning to calm down he'll be trying to deal with the consequences of reverting to WTO trading terms at the end of the year.
Anyone who thinks things have gone well for Boris since he won the GE really haven't been paying attention.
I think Boris has been dealt a mortal blow. The assertion 'everyone will have forgotten about this by the next general election' is so much guff - Black Wednesday happened at a comparable time into JM's regime. Every political setback that followed was simply magnified by that initial fiasco - JM could never shake it off. We've got the fallout from the virus and, probably, a sub-optimal Brexit still to come. Never mind all the other horrors as yet unseen. I can't see how Boris will ever have the space to recover from this.
It's true - during Dom's statement today interest rates shot up to 15% and now they're at 17%, this won't be forgotten.
Milder than yesterday. They won't be panicking. By Wednesday this will likely be over
The damage to Boris won't be over, his ratings were already on the slide and this certainly isn't going to help. His Press Conferences are dreadful, Starmer bests him at every PMQ and I doubt any of that is going to substantially change.
In their rush towards Brexit the Tories have chosen a leader that's not up to the job. He's soon going to have to be explaining why his government has produced the worst pandemic outcome in Europe. He'll be having to explain why we are the last European country out of lockdown.
When that is beginning to calm down he'll be trying to deal with the consequences of reverting to WTO trading terms at the end of the year.
Anyone who thinks things have gone well for Boris since he won the GE really haven't been paying attention.
The most worrying point about this saga is the fact that almost noone seems to understand the difference between quarantine and lockdown.
It's a deliberate tactic for the fanboys. They are deliberately trying to play down Cumming's misdemeanors by hoping the average punter is too thick to understand the difference.
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anyway indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
And hospitals. There are quite a few hospital acquired infections now.
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
It's potentially getting into personal life territory, particularly the child's.
Why did a viral parent go, rather than one of the carers?
None of the questions that I ask would breech confidentiality.
Doesn't that depend on the answer?
(edit: I can imagine possible true answers that would, that are unspoken but implied, e.g. the child visits hospital a lot.)
No.
If the reason to go was to have assistance with childcare, why did a viral parent go into a ward of sick children, rather than one of the aunts, uncles or nieces?
It makes no sense.
Because (a) that would be mixing households and (b) they wouldn’t have what I assume is a complex medical history if required by doctors
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Have you and @Richard_Nabavi ever gone shopping with a woman or been somewhere like Westfield or Trafford Shopping Centres. People spend hours in them.
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anywhere indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
All you describe applies to quite a lot of shops too, shopping centres especially.
And in response to @Chris: I don’t expect instant normality but I’d like to understand what the scientific basis is for allowing some indoor places to reopen and not others. And whether that really is the basis for this decision and whether it has been weighed against the costs.
1. You've lost the argument if you start citing fuel tank capacity and the bladder capacity of a 4 year old to support your case. 2. Hatred of Cummings blinds some. The Guardian clearly rushed to judgment before checking all the facts. CHB clearly failed to understand the significance of the statement by Durham Police before rushing to judge that it was crucifying, prior to asking what it meant. 3. Those who pronounced their verdict before hearing all the evidence displayed their liberal left pro-EU prejudice (The Bishops), their panic (a few Tory MPs) or their trolling (CHB), or were JHB. 4. 20 Tory MPs calling for Cummings to go suggests 345 Tory MPs did not feel strongly enough to agree, for whatever reason. Do the math. 5. Boris will not take the easy option if he thinks doing so is wrong. He thinks dumping Cummings would have been unfair, or would damage the government or both. Those who think he just wants to be popular are just plain wrong. 6. The next GE will almost certainly not be for another 4 years. By the time the voters deliver their verdict, Cummings' trip to Durham will be long forgotten. 7. Big G is correct, the next GE will be depend on how well the voters think the government handles the economy. Unless of course the Corbynite wing leaves Labour and we get a re-run of 1983.
Good night all.
Cummings is lucky that it is 4 years until the next General Election and almost a year to the next election of any sort. He is also lucky that we are in the process of coming out of lockdown.
The key question is whether it does any lasting damage or if it all blows over.
The lasting legacies of this episode, I think, will be the phrase "follow my instinct" that will become the riposte to instructions anyone is not minded to follow; jokes about driving to test your eyesight; the Johnson/Cummings regime will bunker down and become yet more despotic.
A bungled Covid-19 response is pretty much baked in, but nobody who rates competence ever votes for Johnson. The risk is if the epidemic takes off again. Then they will be in serious trouble
If Gupta of Oxford is right then Johnson gets away with all this.
If she and her team are wrong then the 2nd wave will sweep Johnson into a world of shit he is not prepared for.
There will be a second wave, the only question is when?
The really big question is how many people will be prepared to put up with a second lockdown.
Arguments will be as follows: - First one didn't work - Can't afford it. My best mate [insert name here] already got made redundant - I'm under 45, I've got a higher chance of being run over by a bus - Remember that Dominic Cummings... oh, and the other one, the scientist who got caught with his pants down.
You think the burning anger of Middle England is going to disappear in a puff of smoke because Cummings weaves his hands in and out of each other and mutters some words of incantation?
Real people have missed holding the hands of dying wives and close family funerals whilst this clown has been burning up and down the by ways of the North East checking his eyes work.
Yes. The two minutes hate will move on to something else.
We will have to respectfully disagree. Time as ever will decide.
For Grauniad readers Cummings will remain the hate object he already was.
For the Daily Mail they will find a new hate object before long.
I think Boris has been dealt a mortal blow. The assertion 'everyone will have forgotten about this by the next general election' is so much guff - Black Wednesday happened at a comparable time into JM's regime. Every political setback that followed was simply magnified by that initial fiasco - JM could never shake it off. We've got the fallout from the virus and, probably, a sub-optimal Brexit still to come. Never mind all the other horrors as yet unseen. I can't see how Boris will ever have the space to recover from this.
It's true - during Dom's statement today interest rates shot up to 15% and now they're at 17%, this won't be forgotten.
It's arguably worse than that. Not everyone had a mortgage on Black Wednesday. Literally everyone in the country has been adversely affected by the virus. If only a chunky minority of those voters are suitably miffed that is politically huge.
You think the burning anger of Middle England is going to disappear in a puff of smoke because Cummings weaves his hands in and out of each other and mutters some words of incantation?
Real people have missed holding the hands of dying wives and close family funerals whilst this clown has been burning up and down the by ways of the North East checking his eyes work.
Yes. The two minutes hate will move on to something else.
We will have to respectfully disagree. Time as ever will decide.
For Grauniad readers Cummings will remain the hate object he already was.
For the Daily Mail they will find a new hate object before long.
Have you and @Richard_Nabavi ever gone shopping with a woman or been somewhere like Westfield or Trafford Shopping Centres. People spend hours in them.
Speaking for myself, yes, I have occasionally been dragged around shops by a woman but it's something I have now learnt to avoid like the plague. My personal expertise in avoiding shops notwithstanding, I think you miss the point: even if people do spend hours in shops, they don't spend hours speaking at close quarters in a group with friends and with strangers, and in a confined space, which is the high-risk behaviour.
1. You've lost the argument if you start citing fuel tank capacity and the bladder capacity of a 4 year old to support your case. 2. Hatred of Cummings blinds some. The Guardian clearly rushed to judgment before checking all the facts. CHB clearly failed to understand the significance of the statement by Durham Police before rushing to judge that it was crucifying, prior to asking what it meant. 3. Those who pronounced their verdict before hearing all the evidence displayed their liberal left pro-EU prejudice (The Bishops), their panic (a few Tory MPs) or their trolling (CHB), or were JHB. 4. 20 Tory MPs calling for Cummings to go suggests 345 Tory MPs did not feel strongly enough to agree, for whatever reason. Do the math. 5. Boris will not take the easy option if he thinks doing so is wrong. He thinks dumping Cummings would have been unfair, or would damage the government or both. Those who think he just wants to be popular are just plain wrong. 6. The next GE will almost certainly not be for another 4 years. By the time the voters deliver their verdict, Cummings' trip to Durham will be long forgotten. 7. Big G is correct, the next GE will be depend on how well the voters think the government handles the economy. Unless of course the Corbynite wing leaves Labour and we get a re-run of 1983.
Good night all.
Cummings is lucky that it is 4 years until the next General Election and almost a year to the next election of any sort. He is also lucky that we are in the process of coming out of lockdown.
The key question is whether it does any lasting damage or if it all blows over.
The lasting legacies of this episode, I think, will be the phrase "follow my instinct" that will become the riposte to instructions anyone is not minded to follow; jokes about driving to test your eyesight; the Johnson/Cummings regime will bunker down and become yet more despotic.
A bungled Covid-19 response is pretty much baked in, but nobody who rates competence ever votes for Johnson. The risk is if the epidemic takes off again. Then they will be in serious trouble
If Gupta of Oxford is right then Johnson gets away with all this.
If she and her team are wrong then the 2nd wave will sweep Johnson into a world of shit he is not prepared for.
There will be a second wave, the only question is when?
The really big question is how many people will be prepared to put up with a second lockdown.
Arguments will be as follows: - First one didn't work - Can't afford it. My best mate [insert name here] already got made redundant - I'm under 45, I've got a higher chance of being run over by a bus - Remember that Dominic Cummings... oh, and the other one, the scientist who got caught with his pants down.
2nd lockdown will only work when people are falling over in the street now.
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anyway indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
And hospitals. There are quite a few hospital acquired infections now.
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
It's potentially getting into personal life territory, particularly the child's.
Why did a viral parent go, rather than one of the carers?
None of the questions that I ask would breech confidentiality.
Doesn't that depend on the answer?
(edit: I can imagine possible true answers that would, that are unspoken but implied, e.g. the child visits hospital a lot.)
No.
If the reason to go was to have assistance with childcare, why did a viral parent go into a ward of sick children, rather than one of the aunts, uncles or nieces?
It makes no sense.
Because (a) that would be mixing households and (b) they wouldn’t have what I assume is a complex medical history if required by doctors
surely the whole point of the trip was to have assistance if both parents became sick. As they did.
Your reasons would be valid if they had stayed in Islington.
The whole point of banning people from going to second homes was to prevent spread and spare overloading regional NHS.
Caught up with nursing friend over Skype. The wards are getting busier again. 😬
Which area of the country?
inpatient numbers were up in Leicestershire this week, at least on Friday they were.
Hmm, that's worrying if it's a general phenomenon. It suggests that even the really quite minor relaxation of lockdown which occurred around ten days ago is enough to start bumping up the numbers again.
I think Boris has been dealt a mortal blow. The assertion 'everyone will have forgotten about this by the next general election' is so much guff - Black Wednesday happened at a comparable time into JM's regime. Every political setback that followed was simply magnified by that initial fiasco - JM could never shake it off. We've got the fallout from the virus and, probably, a sub-optimal Brexit still to come. Never mind all the other horrors as yet unseen. I can't see how Boris will ever have the space to recover from this.
Caught up with nursing friend over Skype. The wards are getting busier again. 😬
Which area of the country?
inpatient numbers were up in Leicestershire this week, at least on Friday they were.
Hmm, that's worrying if it's a general phenomenon. It suggests that even the really quite minor relaxation of lockdown which occurred around ten days ago is enough to start bumping up the numbers again.
So why can’t cafes and restaurants reopen if shops can?
I would assume due to length of time spent in them
Yes, proximity, interaction, and weight of viral load over time
The worst places are gyms, choirs, churches, mosques, theatres, cinemas, clubs, dance halls, basically anyway indoors where people are crowded together and panting air through singing, laughing, loudly talking
That is to say: many of the fun places that make life worth living
And hospitals. There are quite a few hospital acquired infections now.
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
It's potentially getting into personal life territory, particularly the child's.
Why did a viral parent go, rather than one of the carers?
None of the questions that I ask would breech confidentiality.
Doesn't that depend on the answer?
(edit: I can imagine possible true answers that would, that are unspoken but implied, e.g. the child visits hospital a lot.)
No.
If the reason to go was to have assistance with childcare, why did a viral parent go into a ward of sick children, rather than one of the aunts, uncles or nieces?
It makes no sense.
Because (a) that would be mixing households and (b) they wouldn’t have what I assume is a complex medical history if required by doctors
surely the whole point of the trip was to have assistance if both parents became sick. As they did.
Your reasons would be valid if they had stayed in Islington.
The whole point of banning people from going to second homes was to prevent spread and spare overloading regional NHS.
The whole story is a ridiculous tissue of lies.
Plus we learnt today that the kid was so sick they called 999.
One of the reasons for loads of metropolitans to not travel to their 2nd homes was that limited rural NHS could not cope with the extra burden at this really difficult time.
I remember the days (last week) when the Covid nationalists would be twisting themselves into knots to prove that these figures didn't really mean what they appeared to mean. It's like everyone's been completely distracted by something.
Here's what has changed. People now know who Boris adviser is. The more clued up know who his parents are, where he went to school, that he lives in Islington and his in laws live in a castle. And what he did in the Rona days. Raging against an unelected elite is done. He'll need to find a new playlist. And Boris needs to up his game sharpish. He's wonderful on the front foot as he was today on the last question urging folk to go out and spend. Not great on the defensive. He isn't well. We no nowt about the medium to long term effects on survivors.
100% increase over the week, and 40% of staff covid positive.
Yes, although it's only to be expected that there would be local flare-ups even as the overall national case load drops. Given how contagious this virus is, it doesn't take much to trigger something like that.
I think we'll learn more very soon from the rest of Europe on whether such flare-ups are likely to get out of control as restrictions ease. It seems to me that there's a lot of complacency (generally, not specifically in the UK).
Comments
Refusing to grab the dead cat of shops being opened in two weeks.
Top journalism.
Apparently Ragusa first imposed the Trentino (30 days) followed by the 40 days of the Venetian Republic. Venice strikes me as a bit of a one up (or ten up) sort of a place.
I mean, honestly, do you really think that we can just go back to normal in every aspect of our daily life, and that the virus magically won't spread this time, the way it did in March?
Think about it - this huge wave of disease that has engulfed the world and killed a third of a million people developed, within just a month or two, from at most a few hundred infections from China.
In the UK, according to the ONS survey, we currently still have well over 100,000 people who are infected.
Rest of the country will move on.
Like last election when one side of the debate were dredging up quotes from Johnson articles decades old to rant about how evil Johnson is. Worked out well didn't it?
The key question is whether it does any lasting damage or if it all blows over.
Plus you know someone's a moron if they take a story to the Guardian. An intelligent person would have got a photo of Cummings, out at Barnard Castle, and sold it to the Sun for £1000.
They take a view on how important it is, and which way they feel about it.
I have a clear view on which way this will go... and it hasn't run its course yet.
"Boris Johnson the 'people’s politician' risks squandering his common touch in standing by Dominic Cummings"
On the subject of hospitals: We learnt two new things today. The first is just comical, to do an eye test by driving for an hour, with your beloved family in the car. The second was Cummings Jr going to hospital, and this seems to be the course of events:
1) family travel 260 miles while becoming unwell, because they needed trustworthy childcare.
2) both parents unwell, then a few days later, child also.
3) 999 called and ambulance despatched (presumably because neither parent fit enough to drive the 5 mile trip).
4) child admitted overnight for tests and observation.
5) Mother accompanies child, stays overnight in children's ward, in breach of isolation rules.
So why did she go, rather than one of the potential carers that they had driven 260 miles to call on? Surely that was the whole point of going in the first place?
Did she declare to the admitting staff that she and her husband were self isolating for Covid-19 symptoms?
What PPE and isolation techniques were used to prevent spread to other children, parents and staff?
None of the questions that I ask would breech confidentiality.
Point 5 especially goes against the stereotype that constantly gets trotted out.
(edit: I can imagine possible true answers that would, that are unspoken but implied, e.g. the child visits hospital a lot.)
You think the burning anger of Middle England is going to disappear in a puff of smoke because Cummings weaves his hands in and out of each other and mutters some words of incantation?
Real people have missed holding the hands of dying wives and close family funerals whilst this clown has been burning up and down the by ways of the North East checking his eyes work.
A bungled Covid-19 response is pretty much baked in, but nobody who rates competence ever votes for Johnson. The risk is if the epidemic takes off again. Then they will be in serious trouble
By contrast, daily stats in isolation don't tell you very much at all. If I though they did I'd have been banging on here about those quite frequent days recently where the UK's daily toll exceeded the combined toll of Italy, Spain and France, countries in the more advanced stage of recovery. And yes as we recover there are countries such as Brazil which were late to the party and are now coming up on the rails by virtue of having buried their heads in the sand.
[*That's using excess deaths or, where for countries such as Italy for whom up to date comparisons are not unavailable, the per capita daily counts.]
If the reason to go was to have assistance with childcare, why did a viral parent go into a ward of sick children, rather than one of the aunts, uncles or nieces?
It makes no sense.
Edit: Apologies, I see this has already been pointed out.
If she and her team are wrong then the 2nd wave will sweep Johnson into a world of shit he is not prepared for.
Caught up with nursing friend over Skype. The wards are getting busier again. 😬
A wise government would have parked Dom somewhere else for a year, but we don't have one of those, because neither Boris or Dom can admit error or do without the other. So he stays. The fact that nobody walked the plank after that Supreme Court ruling should have been a giveaway.
But damage has been done. Some voters who moved across to Boris in 2019 will have shifted back because of this. The most interesting headline tomorrow is the one in Metro; "Stay Elite". That could hurt, especially in a paper that isn't very ideological. It might not be many, but a bit of magic has gone.
More importantly, Dom is Diminished. Can he ever again march a Spad out of Downing Street? He didn't eat much humble pie, but it was on the table. Even the fact he was wearing a proper shirt... he's not quite the same monster as before, and part of his act has been lost.
But tomorrow is another day.
The damage to Boris won't be over, his ratings were already on the slide and this certainly isn't going to help. His Press Conferences are dreadful, Starmer bests him at every PMQ and I doubt any of that is going to substantially change.
In their rush towards Brexit the Tories have chosen a leader that's not up to the job. He's soon going to have to be explaining why his government has produced the worst pandemic outcome in Europe. He'll be having to explain why we are the last European country out of lockdown.
When that is beginning to calm down he'll be trying to deal with the consequences of reverting to WTO trading terms at the end of the year.
Anyone who thinks things have gone well for Boris since he won the GE really haven't been paying attention.
Not up to it any more will be the next stage.
It's a deliberate tactic for the fanboys. They are deliberately trying to play down Cumming's misdemeanors by hoping the average punter is too thick to understand the difference.
https://twitter.com/RobbieGibb/status/1264970878766460928
https://twitter.com/JaneyGodley/status/1265032928494596108?s=20
My MP ignored it when I questioned it. I just got 2 pages of form letter bullshit that didn't answer my questions.
And in response to @Chris: I don’t expect instant normality but I’d like to understand what the scientific basis is for allowing some indoor places to reopen and not others. And whether that really is the basis for this decision and whether it has been weighed against the costs.
Arguments will be as follows:
- First one didn't work
- Can't afford it. My best mate [insert name here] already got made redundant
- I'm under 45, I've got a higher chance of being run over by a bus
- Remember that Dominic Cummings... oh, and the other one, the scientist who got caught with his pants down.
For the Daily Mail they will find a new hate object before long.
Your reasons would be valid if they had stayed in Islington.
The whole point of banning people from going to second homes was to prevent spread and spare overloading regional NHS.
The whole story is a ridiculous tissue of lies.
We cannot follow the ‘two-metre rule’ forever.
Robert Jackman"
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/25/theatre-cannot-survive-social-distancing/
https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/somerset-news/weston-hospital-coronavirus-covid-somerset-4162300
100% increase over the week, and 40% of staff covid positive.
One of the reasons for loads of metropolitans to not travel to their 2nd homes was that limited rural NHS could not cope with the extra burden at this really difficult time.
A case in point.
Still, Sweden's doing well.
The more clued up know who his parents are, where he went to school, that he lives in Islington and his in laws live in a castle. And what he did in the Rona days.
Raging against an unelected elite is done. He'll need to find a new playlist.
And Boris needs to up his game sharpish. He's wonderful on the front foot as he was today on the last question urging folk to go out and spend. Not great on the defensive.
He isn't well. We no nowt about the medium to long term effects on survivors.
I think we'll learn more very soon from the rest of Europe on whether such flare-ups are likely to get out of control as restrictions ease. It seems to me that there's a lot of complacency (generally, not specifically in the UK).
I am not eager to rejoin the EU, even though I think leaving has been a terrible decision.