I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
People tested is a stat that is released every day. I think it's probably best to use that.
Me too. But the Government insists on a headline of "number of tests" that while accurate is quite misleading. It's ideological to suggest otherwise.
The government doesn't insist on that headline. This is the chart the government headlines with. The rest is up to the media.
There's no point arguing with you on this because you'll continually insist that the Government announcing a plan to have the capacity to do 100k tests per day does not imply to normal people that 100k people will be being tested per day. Yes, you're right, that's not what the Government said, but that's not the point is it?
Either way, this entire conversation is pointless and is of no consequence.
If the government meant to say we will test 100,000 people per day they would have said we will test 100,000 people per day.
Words matter. If people don't understand what they mean that's not misleading. The data is there crystal clear with no attempts to mislead whatsoever.
Why do you keep saying the data is there when it clearly isn't. The Govt for instance has no clue (so can't tell you) how many postal tests were carried out because it has admitted it is not collecting that data.
It should be as close enough to the amount sent out as to make no difference. Who is ordering a test, receiving it but not completing it? And why?
My home test was picked up half an hour ago by a courier.
How was it Philip? Was it easy? Uncomfortable?
Easy but very uncomfortable. Did it at 1am, throat still hurts now.
How painful was it to be away from PB while you were doing the test?
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
The polling suggests the opposite, but hey, you're a Brexit supporter so everything you think must be what the public thinks.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument though.
That chart also shows that in the time that Boris has been Prime Minister, the Government's net approval rating has increased by 60 points.
Pesky facts, eh?
And now it's coming down. What's your point?
That it's still significantly higher than it was in December when we inflicted Labour's worst defeat in 84 years. Don't get too cocky!
Winning a GE in December has no relevance to whether the public is with the Government now on their COVID-19 policy, as @Philip_Thompson asserted. It seems to me like you're trying to have a different argument to the one we are having.
We get it. You won a majority in December. Get over it.
It has great relevance because over-excited lefties thought they had the public on their side then and were comically mistaken. The same is likely to be true now
Well this one bought Con majority at 15 and cleaned up.
And IIRC, on this site, almost all of the posters predicting a surprise Labour "win" - aka hung parliament - were ardent Cons.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
The polling suggests the opposite, but hey, you're a Brexit supporter so everything you think must be what the public thinks.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument though.
That chart also shows that in the time that Boris has been Prime Minister, the Government's net approval rating has increased by 60 points.
Pesky facts, eh?
And now it's coming down. What's your point?
That it's still significantly higher than it was in December when we inflicted Labour's worst defeat in 84 years. Don't get too cocky!
Winning a GE in December has no relevance to whether the public is with the Government now on their COVID-19 policy, as @Philip_Thompson asserted. It seems to me like you're trying to have a different argument to the one we are having.
We get it. You won a majority in December. Get over it.
Nor does that poll you quoted. It isn't asking about COVID19 policy.
It's more evidence than you have provided, which is merely: "I'm a Tory and therefore I know what the public wants".
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
Not on getting the economy going again, they are not. They don`t appreciate the extent of the damage. I`m taken aback by three of my family members, Boris fans and strong brexiteers, who have become very critical of the government. Key issues I`m picking up from them are PPE and continued airplane activity. On the latter point, this is why the government have changed tack on arrivals. Not because it`s the right thing to do (I don`t think it is) but it`s populism again.
This government, which I have been supportive of generally, are the ultimate political weathervanes and this may prove its undoing. The public knows jack shit and is fickle.
I don't think Johnson is for getting the economy going again. I think Johnson is for getting the economy going in baby steps, like the public is.
When do we see him back in the gym, Philip? That would help a lot, I reckon, given the stress he's under.
Let's see how long they stick with this policy once France, Greece, Italy and Spain open up for tourism and the masses start itching to get on their summer hols - i.e. in about a month.
There will be people who don't want to go to work, don't want to send their kids to school but are willing to fly abroad on holiday.
By the end of the year they will then be complaining that they're unemployed and have no money.
One friend of my wife is an ultra-lock-downer, who holds parties at her house. Because she is bored. She is upset that we don't go round. Presumably to hear her rants about how selfish some people are.
Yes, there do seem to be some people who this is bringing out the worst of their hypocrisy.
At least the bloke on video at the seaside swigging beer with a dozen family members yesterday admitted it was a bit rum of him to be complaining about all the people breaking lockdown.
One of the reasons I find falling people into signing up for insanely un-progressive ideas, is this kind of for-thee-not-for-me hypocrisy.
Another acquaintance who is of the EmpireShouldPayReparations persuasion was very upset that in a former UK colony, he was not allowed to buy the beach in front of his holiday house. To stop the locals using it.
You seem to hang out almost exclusively with raving lefty hypocrites. It can't be good for you.
This is a very leftwing site but we do what we can
Wait until the shriekers find out a large proportion of those being tested (TWICE!!) are part of studies with subjects chosen who don't even have symptoms.
You really are an obnoxious prat aren't you.
It's a kinder gentler left wing site.
a) I am not left wing b) I am not the one (other than to you) being rude to everyone c) Your behaviour several weeks ago re dementia says everything anyone needs to know about you d) I would in fact consider myself to be kind. You clearly from your posts and previous behaviour are clearly not.
a) Hmm b) Calling out vomit inducing arrogance could be deemed rude - you got me. c) I didn't mention dementia. d) Man up.
a) Evidence?
b) Clearly no self awareness
c) What???? You really can't remember what you said? You really can't remember all the requests from others for you to apologise, which by the way you didn't?
d) Meaningless comment. There is no reason why you can't debate with people who disagree with you politely (admittedly it sometimes get heated and I have done that that myself), but just look at what you type, from the off. You are a very, very angry person. Just look at what you wrote there 'vomit inducing arrogance'. You come over as a very unpleasant individual indeed. As I said no self awareness at all.
High Street spending down 18% is actually less than I would have imagined, given almost complete closure of the hospitality and large parts of retail, like clothes, shoes, much DIY and garden centres, etc.
The overall reduction in economic activity has actually been a lot less than I'd have expected. A lot is down to the shift towards online activity, of course, so it does make you think: what if all this had happened 10 or 20 years earlier?
Remote teaching would have been “read these chapters in the text book and do these questions” if you were lucky (and if you had a textbook at home). In my lessons today I have sent them videos of me going though the notes, set questions online which are marked electronically and the results sent to me in real time, and had text conversations with those that wanted help.
Where is the link to the 18% High Street spending reduction? That seems like an extraordinary low reduction to me, given the circumstances.
Quotes 'retail sales' - if those include supermarkets then it's plausible, since they must be a massive share and won't have seen much reduction, particularly if online supermarket delivery is included.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
Not on getting the economy going again, they are not. They don`t appreciate the extent of the damage. I`m taken aback by three of my family members, Boris fans and strong brexiteers, who have become very critical of the government. Key issues I`m picking up from them are PPE and continued airplane activity. On the latter point, this is why the government have changed tack on arrivals. Not because it`s the right thing to do (I don`t think it is) but it`s populism again.
This government, which I have been supportive of generally, are the ultimate political weathervanes and this may prove its undoing. The public knows jack shit and is fickle.
I don't think Johnson is for getting the economy going again. I think Johnson is for getting the economy going in baby steps, like the public is.
When do we see him back in the gym, Philip? That would help a lot, I reckon, given the stress he's under.
I have no idea. You have this weird obsession but I've never even mentioned the gym w.r.t. him. So that's odd.
This government, which I have been supportive of generally, are the ultimate political weathervanes and this may prove its undoing. The public knows jack shit and are fickle.
Be careful, you're starting to sound like a lefty metropolitan remainer.
Well I am partly that, especially in that I don`t hold democracy in the god-like manner that many libertarians and leavers and others on the right do.
Democracy is like the NHS - impossible to criticise.
Well, quite. Democracy does not require the fetishising of public opinion.
High Street spending down 18% is actually less than I would have imagined, given almost complete closure of the hospitality and large parts of retail, like clothes, shoes, much DIY and garden centres, etc.
The overall reduction in economic activity has actually been a lot less than I'd have expected. A lot is down to the shift towards online activity, of course, so it does make you think: what if all this had happened 10 or 20 years earlier?
Remote teaching would have been “read these chapters in the text book and do these questions” if you were lucky (and if you had a textbook at home). In my lessons today I have sent them videos of me going though the notes, set questions online which are marked electronically and the results sent to me in real time, and had text conversations with those that wanted help.
Where is the link to the 18% High Street spending reduction? That seems like an extraordinary low reduction to me, given the circumstances.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
People tested is a stat that is released every day. I think it's probably best to use that.
Me too. But the Government insists on a headline of "number of tests" that while accurate is quite misleading. It's ideological to suggest otherwise.
The government doesn't insist on that headline. This is the chart the government headlines with. The rest is up to the media.
There's no point arguing with you on this because you'll continually insist that the Government announcing a plan to have the capacity to do 100k tests per day does not imply to normal people that 100k people will be being tested per day. Yes, you're right, that's not what the Government said, but that's not the point is it?
Either way, this entire conversation is pointless and is of no consequence.
If the government meant to say we will test 100,000 people per day they would have said we will test 100,000 people per day.
Words matter. If people don't understand what they mean that's not misleading. The data is there crystal clear with no attempts to mislead whatsoever.
Why do you keep saying the data is there when it clearly isn't. The Govt for instance has no clue (so can't tell you) how many postal tests were carried out because it has admitted it is not collecting that data.
It should be as close enough to the amount sent out as to make no difference. Who is ordering a test, receiving it but not completing it? And why?
My home test was picked up half an hour ago by a courier.
How was it Philip? Was it easy? Uncomfortable?
Easy but very uncomfortable. Did it at 1am, throat still hurts now.
Let's see how long they stick with this policy once France, Greece, Italy and Spain open up for tourism and the masses start itching to get on their summer hols - i.e. in about a month.
There will be people who don't want to go to work, don't want to send their kids to school but are willing to fly abroad on holiday.
By the end of the year they will then be complaining that they're unemployed and have no money.
One friend of my wife is an ultra-lock-downer, who holds parties at her house. Because she is bored. She is upset that we don't go round. Presumably to hear her rants about how selfish some people are.
Yes, there do seem to be some people who this is bringing out the worst of their hypocrisy.
At least the bloke on video at the seaside swigging beer with a dozen family members yesterday admitted it was a bit rum of him to be complaining about all the people breaking lockdown.
One of the reasons I find falling people into signing up for insanely un-progressive ideas, is this kind of for-thee-not-for-me hypocrisy.
Another acquaintance who is of the EmpireShouldPayReparations persuasion was very upset that in a former UK colony, he was not allowed to buy the beach in front of his holiday house. To stop the locals using it.
You seem to hang out almost exclusively with raving lefty hypocrites. It can't be good for you.
I enjoy collecting hypocrisy - collecting wine is more expensive, and hypocrisy has the merit of being infinitely renewable.
The moment someone starts banging on about how infinitely loving and fair they are, southing in my head goes "target acquired".
Part of it is my enjoyment of leading people down a path. Like the time I got some students to suggest that Seventh Day Adventists should be persecuted by the state....
I get the picture. Challenging company.
Have you ever read - "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans" ?
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
Not on getting the economy going again, they are not. They don`t appreciate the extent of the damage. I`m taken aback by three of my family members, Boris fans and strong brexiteers, who have become very critical of the government. Key issues I`m picking up from them are PPE and continued airplane activity. On the latter point, this is why the government have changed tack on arrivals. Not because it`s the right thing to do (I don`t think it is) but it`s populism again.
This government, which I have been supportive of generally, are the ultimate political weathervanes and this may prove its undoing. The public knows jack shit and is fickle.
I don't think Johnson is for getting the economy going again. I think Johnson is for getting the economy going in baby steps, like the public is.
When do we see him back in the gym, Philip? That would help a lot, I reckon, given the stress he's under.
I have no idea. You have this weird obsession but I've never even mentioned the gym w.r.t. him. So that's odd.
Healthy body healthy mind, is the point. He got himself in good physical shape for the election and look what happened there. A win for the ages.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
The polling suggests the opposite, but hey, you're a Brexit supporter so everything you think must be what the public thinks.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument though.
That chart also shows that in the time that Boris has been Prime Minister, the Government's net approval rating has increased by 60 points.
Pesky facts, eh?
And now it's coming down. What's your point?
That it's still significantly higher than it was in December when we inflicted Labour's worst defeat in 84 years. Don't get too cocky!
Winning a GE in December has no relevance to whether the public is with the Government now on their COVID-19 policy, as @Philip_Thompson asserted. It seems to me like you're trying to have a different argument to the one we are having.
We get it. You won a majority in December. Get over it.
It has great relevance because over-excited lefties thought they had the public on their side then and were comically mistaken. The same is likely to be true now
I'm not aware of any leftie, regardless of their degree of excitability, that thought the public were on their side in December; they all expected Corbyn/Labour to lose heavily. However, the times they are a changing, a bit more rapidly than expected.
High Street spending down 18% is actually less than I would have imagined, given almost complete closure of the hospitality and large parts of retail, like clothes, shoes, much DIY and garden centres, etc.
The overall reduction in economic activity has actually been a lot less than I'd have expected. A lot is down to the shift towards online activity, of course, so it does make you think: what if all this had happened 10 or 20 years earlier?
Remote teaching would have been “read these chapters in the text book and do these questions” if you were lucky (and if you had a textbook at home). In my lessons today I have sent them videos of me going though the notes, set questions online which are marked electronically and the results sent to me in real time, and had text conversations with those that wanted help.
Where is the link to the 18% High Street spending reduction? That seems like an extraordinary low reduction to me, given the circumstances.
Quotes 'retail sales' - if those include supermarkets then it's plausible, since they must be a massive share and won't have seen much reduction, particularly if online supermarket delivery is included.
Yes online was about 20% of retail, and that will have been boosted not dropped. Amazon has been growing at 20-30%.
A quarter to a third of calories came from pubs and restaurants, which will have shifted to retail.
People will have stocked up supplies, done diy, house improvements.
Let's see how long they stick with this policy once France, Greece, Italy and Spain open up for tourism and the masses start itching to get on their summer hols - i.e. in about a month.
There will be people who don't want to go to work, don't want to send their kids to school but are willing to fly abroad on holiday.
By the end of the year they will then be complaining that they're unemployed and have no money.
One friend of my wife is an ultra-lock-downer, who holds parties at her house. Because she is bored. She is upset that we don't go round. Presumably to hear her rants about how selfish some people are.
Yes, there do seem to be some people who this is bringing out the worst of their hypocrisy.
At least the bloke on video at the seaside swigging beer with a dozen family members yesterday admitted it was a bit rum of him to be complaining about all the people breaking lockdown.
One of the reasons I find falling people into signing up for insanely un-progressive ideas, is this kind of for-thee-not-for-me hypocrisy.
Another acquaintance who is of the EmpireShouldPayReparations persuasion was very upset that in a former UK colony, he was not allowed to buy the beach in front of his holiday house. To stop the locals using it.
You seem to hang out almost exclusively with raving lefty hypocrites. It can't be good for you.
I enjoy collecting hypocrisy - collecting wine is more expensive, and hypocrisy has the merit of being infinitely renewable.
The moment someone starts banging on about how infinitely loving and fair they are, southing in my head goes "target acquired".
Part of it is my enjoyment of leading people down a path. Like the time I got some students to suggest that Seventh Day Adventists should be persecuted by the state....
I get the picture. Challenging company.
Have you ever read - "They Thought They Were Free: The Germans" ?
Looks worth reading per a Google. Had not heard of book or author.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
The polling suggests the opposite, but hey, you're a Brexit supporter so everything you think must be what the public thinks.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
A genuine question - do you mean the lockdown unwind should go quicker or slower?
Personally, I think quicker. But my post was about Johnson. I think that he thinks quicker too, and is hearing rising concerns from his backbenchers in the same vein - but won`t move significantly until polling shows the public is behind him. Which I believe may be never, because they are financially cushioned and frit. Hence the trap.
You also need to throw into the mix the queston of whether people trust him.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
The polling suggests the opposite, but hey, you're a Brexit supporter so everything you think must be what the public thinks.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument though.
That chart also shows that in the time that Boris has been Prime Minister, the Government's net approval rating has increased by 60 points.
Pesky facts, eh?
And now it's coming down. What's your point?
That it's still significantly higher than it was in December when we inflicted Labour's worst defeat in 84 years. Don't get too cocky!
Winning a GE in December has no relevance to whether the public is with the Government now on their COVID-19 policy, as @Philip_Thompson asserted. It seems to me like you're trying to have a different argument to the one we are having.
We get it. You won a majority in December. Get over it.
It has great relevance because over-excited lefties thought they had the public on their side then and were comically mistaken. The same is likely to be true now
Well this one bought Con majority at 15 and cleaned up.
And IIRC, on this site, almost all of the posters predicting a surprise Labour "win" - aka hung parliament - were ardent Cons.
This site certainly had fewer such offenders than elsewhere, but was not entirely devoid of it. What I'm criticizing is the idea that a decent PMQs from Starmer and a mild decline in government ratings now under extremely turbulent conditions means an irrevocable plummet and Sir Keira Knightly nailed on as PM. As Zhou is supposed to have said when asked his opinion on the French Revolution, it's simply too early to tell.
I'm not aware of any leftie, regardless of their degree of excitability, that thought the public were on their side in December; they all expected Corbyn/Labour to lose heavily. However, the times they are a changing, a bit more rapidly than expected.
"If our polling methods work, Labour is heading for a defeat of massive proportions on 12 December. There is, however, increasing evidence that the way in which polling is being done in this country (and beyond) is fundamentally broken...
"If we approach the polls not as an accurate snapshot, but as a blurry, unfocused photograph, providing us with an idea of broad trends rather than a crystal clear picture, the gap between Labour and the Tories has been narrowing as the campaign goes on, which according to some has increased the possibility of a hung parliament. It is worth noting that the rightwing media is increasingly warning against the dangers of a hung parliament, suggesting they might be getting scared...
"Next week we will know if the tweaks they made after the 2017 general election have increased the accuracy of their models or not. I, for one, hope they have failed again.
"Bart Cammaerts is a professor of politics and communication at the London School of Economics and Political Science."
From what I hear, in Austria things are pretty much back to normal. Shops open, bars open. Regulations about face masks still in place, but pretty widely ignored. Still no schools, though. And no sign of an increase in the number of new cases - a few dozen a day for the past few weeks.
It suggests to me that if the level of infection is low enough, this pandemic can be managed by tracking and tracing without swingeing restrictions on the activities of the population as a whole.
But what are the capabilities of tracking and tracing in the UK? Are they capable of handling the number of active cases - on the order of 150,000 if we can believe the ONS survey?
If only we hadn't ended up with an infection rate among the highest in the world ...
I don`t hold democracy in the god-like manner that many libertarians and leavers and others on the right do.
Democracy is like the NHS - impossible to criticise.
I follow Churchill on democracy.
However lefties tend to have a systems approach i.e. does society benefit from this way of making decisions?
I think for libertarians it is about ownership - the government is their property and they get to decide what it does, for good or bad (the purple wallpaper analogy).
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
The polling suggests the opposite, but hey, you're a Brexit supporter so everything you think must be what the public thinks.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument though.
That chart also shows that in the time that Boris has been Prime Minister, the Government's net approval rating has increased by 60 points.
Pesky facts, eh?
And now it's coming down. What's your point?
That it's still significantly higher than it was in December when we inflicted Labour's worst defeat in 84 years. Don't get too cocky!
Winning a GE in December has no relevance to whether the public is with the Government now on their COVID-19 policy, as @Philip_Thompson asserted. It seems to me like you're trying to have a different argument to the one we are having.
We get it. You won a majority in December. Get over it.
It has great relevance because over-excited lefties thought they had the public on their side then and were comically mistaken. The same is likely to be true now
I'm not aware of any leftie, regardless of their degree of excitability, that thought the public were on their side in December; they all expected Corbyn/Labour to lose heavily. However, the times they are a changing, a bit more rapidly than expected.
There's this obscure site called Twitter that will offer some small evidence of the above. Look for the red roses...
Plus loony stuff on comedy sites like the Guardian, of course:
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
People tested is a stat that is released every day. I think it's probably best to use that.
Me too. But the Government insists on a headline of "number of tests" that while accurate is quite misleading. It's ideological to suggest otherwise.
The government doesn't insist on that headline. This is the chart the government headlines with. The rest is up to the media.
There's no point arguing with you on this because you'll continually insist that the Government announcing a plan to have the capacity to do 100k tests per day does not imply to normal people that 100k people will be being tested per day. Yes, you're right, that's not what the Government said, but that's not the point is it?
Either way, this entire conversation is pointless and is of no consequence.
If the government meant to say we will test 100,000 people per day they would have said we will test 100,000 people per day.
Words matter. If people don't understand what they mean that's not misleading. The data is there crystal clear with no attempts to mislead whatsoever.
Why do you keep saying the data is there when it clearly isn't. The Govt for instance has no clue (so can't tell you) how many postal tests were carried out because it has admitted it is not collecting that data.
It should be as close enough to the amount sent out as to make no difference. Who is ordering a test, receiving it but not completing it? And why?
My home test was picked up half an hour ago by a courier.
I probably agree (although by the sounds of it there are an inconsequential number of failed tests), but why not just do it properly? The only conceivable reason was to meet a pointless target.
Such a silly thing to do as well. Lost a lot of trust. The balance in the trust bank (which was high) has fallen dramatically. The government need to be extremely careful from now on because the thing about the trust bank is you cannot easily replenish your account and there is no overdraft facility. When it's all spent, that is it. Game over - make way for Starmer.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
The polling suggests the opposite, but hey, you're a Brexit supporter so everything you think must be what the public thinks.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument though.
That chart also shows that in the time that Boris has been Prime Minister, the Government's net approval rating has increased by 60 points.
Pesky facts, eh?
And now it's coming down. What's your point?
That it's still significantly higher than it was in December when we inflicted Labour's worst defeat in 84 years. Don't get too cocky!
Winning a GE in December has no relevance to whether the public is with the Government now on their COVID-19 policy, as @Philip_Thompson asserted. It seems to me like you're trying to have a different argument to the one we are having.
We get it. You won a majority in December. Get over it.
It has great relevance because over-excited lefties thought they had the public on their side then and were comically mistaken. The same is likely to be true now
Well this one bought Con majority at 15 and cleaned up.
And IIRC, on this site, almost all of the posters predicting a surprise Labour "win" - aka hung parliament - were ardent Cons.
This site certainly had fewer such offenders than elsewhere, but was not entirely devoid of it. What I'm criticizing is the idea that a decent PMQs from Starmer and a mild decline in government ratings now under extremely turbulent conditions means an irrevocable plummet and Sir Keira Knightly nailed on as PM. As Zhou is supposed to have said when asked his opinion on the French Revolution, it's simply too early to tell.
"Sir Keira Knightly" - is that one you've made up yourself?
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
The polling suggests the opposite, but hey, you're a Brexit supporter so everything you think must be what the public thinks.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument though.
That chart also shows that in the time that Boris has been Prime Minister, the Government's net approval rating has increased by 60 points.
Pesky facts, eh?
And now it's coming down. What's your point?
That it's still significantly higher than it was in December when we inflicted Labour's worst defeat in 84 years. Don't get too cocky!
Winning a GE in December has no relevance to whether the public is with the Government now on their COVID-19 policy, as @Philip_Thompson asserted. It seems to me like you're trying to have a different argument to the one we are having.
We get it. You won a majority in December. Get over it.
It has great relevance because over-excited lefties thought they had the public on their side then and were comically mistaken. The same is likely to be true now
Well this one bought Con majority at 15 and cleaned up.
And IIRC, on this site, almost all of the posters predicting a surprise Labour "win" - aka hung parliament - were ardent Cons.
This site certainly had fewer such offenders than elsewhere, but was not entirely devoid of it. What I'm criticizing is the idea that a decent PMQs from Starmer and a mild decline in government ratings now under extremely turbulent conditions means an irrevocable plummet and Sir Keira Knightly nailed on as PM. As Zhou is supposed to have said when asked his opinion on the French Revolution, it's simply too early to tell.
"Sir Keira Knightly" - is that one you've made up yourself?
I don`t hold democracy in the god-like manner that many libertarians and leavers and others on the right do.
Democracy is like the NHS - impossible to criticise.
I follow Churchill on democracy.
However lefties tend to have a systems approach i.e. does society benefit from this way of making decisions?
I think for libertarians it is about ownership - the government is their property and they get to decide what it does, for good or bad (the purple wallpaper analogy).
Libertarians ideally want barely any government at all given most of them want to pay as little tax as possible and are socially liberal
I'm not aware of any leftie, regardless of their degree of excitability, that thought the public were on their side in December; they all expected Corbyn/Labour to lose heavily. However, the times they are a changing, a bit more rapidly than expected.
"If our polling methods work, Labour is heading for a defeat of massive proportions on 12 December. There is, however, increasing evidence that the way in which polling is being done in this country (and beyond) is fundamentally broken...
"If we approach the polls not as an accurate snapshot, but as a blurry, unfocused photograph, providing us with an idea of broad trends rather than a crystal clear picture, the gap between Labour and the Tories has been narrowing as the campaign goes on, which according to some has increased the possibility of a hung parliament. It is worth noting that the rightwing media is increasingly warning against the dangers of a hung parliament, suggesting they might be getting scared...
"Next week we will know if the tweaks they made after the 2017 general election have increased the accuracy of their models or not. I, for one, hope they have failed again.
"Bart Cammaerts is a professor of politics and communication at the London School of Economics and Political Science."
Well, I was referring to my personal experience. You cite an article by an idiot (I've read it), from an idiotic source. I accept that a small minority had no grip on reality, but I'm not sure this refutes the point that the expectation for the vast majority of Labour supporters was of a dismal election outcome.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
The polling suggests the opposite, but hey, you're a Brexit supporter so everything you think must be what the public thinks.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument though.
39% of the vote under FPTP would still almost certainly see the Government re elected.
What relevance does that have?
Only once Governmemt approval falls under 35% is it really in trouble
Which is why the Government needs to be careful. Go back to the YouGov graph; Government approval was in the 20 percents before the General Election and their winner's bounce only took them up to the mid-thirties. They had a big boost at the start of Covid, which now seems to be fading and 35 % approval is in sight again.
They have MPs to spare and years until the next election, neither of which is to be sniffed at. But an unknown (but surely non-trival) chunk of that majority reflects the awfulness of Corbyn as LOTO.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
What of the anti-Boris, remainer Tories? Younger PBers might struggle to remember this but remaining in the EU was Conservative Party policy for most of the current millennium.
Times change. Accepting postwar nationalised industries was policy for about as long. Don't see any Tories wanting to go back to that.
I see the horrible, horrible, horrible economic numbers have passed without comment on here.
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
I see the horrible, horrible, horrible economic numbers have passed without comment on here.
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
And so will the markets.
All true. The UK is really going to be in trouble with the markets given that it's the only country in the world in such an economic position...
I see the horrible, horrible, horrible economic numbers have passed without comment on here.
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
And so will the markets.
Of course, the odd thing is the markets haven't realised any of that yet.
But no doubt you are so much cleverer and more far-sighted than anyone else. Even if you can't understand something as simple as the fact that COVID-19 would kill hundreds of thousands in the UK alone in the absence of extreme counter-measures.
I see the horrible, horrible, horrible economic numbers have passed without comment on here.
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
And so will the markets.
Of course, the odd thing is the markets haven't realised any of that yet.
But no doubt you are so much cleverer and more far-sighted than anyone else. Even if you can't understand something as simple as the fact that COVID-19 would kill hundreds of thousands in the UK alone in the absence of extreme counter-measures.
Still pushing the totally discredited Ferguson Bullsh8t? blimey, how far behind are you?
I see the horrible, horrible, horrible economic numbers have passed without comment on here.
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
And so will the markets.
Of course, the odd thing is the markets haven't realised any of that yet.
But no doubt you are so much cleverer and more far-sighted than anyone else. Even if you can't understand something as simple as the fact that COVID-19 would kill hundreds of thousands in the UK alone in the absence of extreme counter-measures.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
People tested is a stat that is released every day. I think it's probably best to use that.
Me too. But the Government insists on a headline of "number of tests" that while accurate is quite misleading. It's ideological to suggest otherwise.
The government doesn't insist on that headline. This is the chart the government headlines with. The rest is up to the media.
There's no point arguing with you on this because you'll continually insist that the Government announcing a plan to have the capacity to do 100k tests per day does not imply to normal people that 100k people will be being tested per day. Yes, you're right, that's not what the Government said, but that's not the point is it?
Either way, this entire conversation is pointless and is of no consequence.
If the government meant to say we will test 100,000 people per day they would have said we will test 100,000 people per day.
Words matter. If people don't understand what they mean that's not misleading. The data is there crystal clear with no attempts to mislead whatsoever.
Why do you keep saying the data is there when it clearly isn't. The Govt for instance has no clue (so can't tell you) how many postal tests were carried out because it has admitted it is not collecting that data.
It should be as close enough to the amount sent out as to make no difference. Who is ordering a test, receiving it but not completing it? And why?
My home test was picked up half an hour ago by a courier.
I probably agree (although by the sounds of it there are an inconsequential number of failed tests), but why not just do it properly? The only conceivable reason was to meet a pointless target.
Such a silly thing to do as well. Lost a lot of trust. The balance in the trust bank (which was high) has fallen dramatically. The government need to be extremely careful from now on because the thing about the trust bank is you cannot easily replenish your account and there is no overdraft facility. When it's all spent, that is it. Game over - make way for Starmer.
I agree. I was very impressed with the presentation up until that point and said so here. I've lost all trust now (not just because of this, but other spin as well, but this was the start of it)
I'm not aware of any leftie, regardless of their degree of excitability, that thought the public were on their side in December; they all expected Corbyn/Labour to lose heavily. However, the times they are a changing, a bit more rapidly than expected.
"If our polling methods work, Labour is heading for a defeat of massive proportions on 12 December. There is, however, increasing evidence that the way in which polling is being done in this country (and beyond) is fundamentally broken...
"If we approach the polls not as an accurate snapshot, but as a blurry, unfocused photograph, providing us with an idea of broad trends rather than a crystal clear picture, the gap between Labour and the Tories has been narrowing as the campaign goes on, which according to some has increased the possibility of a hung parliament. It is worth noting that the rightwing media is increasingly warning against the dangers of a hung parliament, suggesting they might be getting scared...
"Next week we will know if the tweaks they made after the 2017 general election have increased the accuracy of their models or not. I, for one, hope they have failed again.
"Bart Cammaerts is a professor of politics and communication at the London School of Economics and Political Science."
Well, I was referring to my personal experience. You cite an article by an idiot (I've read it), from an idiotic source. I accept that a small minority had no grip on reality, but I'm not sure this refutes the point that the expectation for the vast majority of Labour supporters was of a dismal election outcome.
I agree, but I can also understand how Tories on this site were also cautious.
On testing I am not particularly concerned by the numbers. 100k is an arbitrary round big number. It is unlikely it is particularly relevant to what we need.
Far more concerning is the turnaround time. Reports are common of tests taking 5 days and when people may only be spreading the virus for 7 days, that is close to pointless.
And at yesterdays presser the head of testing didnt want to get tied in to a 24 hr goal for testing, which suggests to me are not close to that, nor expect to be so.
Without it, test, track and trace is going to be pretty ineffective.
Incidentally, an implication of the latest ONS estimates - 61k infections per week, 137k people at any time who would test positive - is that on average people would be testing positive for nearly 16 days. Actually, probably longer than that, because the estimate of weekly infections was based on an earlier period, when the rate of infection would have been higher.
The advice to self-isolate for only 7 days is absurd. The only reason not to change it is the fear of politicians looking foolish - again. Surely that has happened so many times already that it shouldn't stand in the way of saving lives.
I see the horrible, horrible, horrible economic numbers have passed without comment on here.
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
And so will the markets.
Of course, the odd thing is the markets haven't realised any of that yet.
But no doubt you are so much cleverer and more far-sighted than anyone else. Even if you can't understand something as simple as the fact that COVID-19 would kill hundreds of thousands in the UK alone in the absence of extreme counter-measures.
You have no possible grounds for saying that.
Infection fatality rate - about 1%.
Estimate of percentage infected in the absence of counter-measures - up to 80%.
I see the horrible, horrible, horrible economic numbers have passed without comment on here.
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
And so will the markets.
Of course, the odd thing is the markets haven't realised any of that yet.
But no doubt you are so much cleverer and more far-sighted than anyone else. Even if you can't understand something as simple as the fact that COVID-19 would kill hundreds of thousands in the UK alone in the absence of extreme counter-measures.
You have no possible grounds for saying that.
Infection fatality rate - about 1%.
Estimate of percentage infected in the absence of counter-measures - up to 80%.
Population of UK - 67 million.
What did they teach you at school?
Does everyone get the flu each year? You said without extreme measures.
I get that you are shit scared by all this but dear god man pull yourself together.
I see the horrible, horrible, horrible economic numbers have passed without comment on here.
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
And so will the markets.
Of course, the odd thing is the markets haven't realised any of that yet.
But no doubt you are so much cleverer and more far-sighted than anyone else. Even if you can't understand something as simple as the fact that COVID-19 would kill hundreds of thousands in the UK alone in the absence of extreme counter-measures.
Still pushing the totally discredited Ferguson Bullsh8t? blimey, how far behind are you?
The trouble is that so many people commenting here are absolutely innumerate.
They can't even multiply three numbers together to find out how many people would die in the absence of counter-measures.
And the saddest thing is they don't even appreciate the depths of their own ignorance.
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Schrodinger's Tests - two individual test types but only one individual being tested. Is it one test or two?
You know that that only thing that matters is whether an individual tests positive or negative, so counting the number of discrete operations to determine that fact is not really the issue.
To report operational tests rather than individuals tested is fine, so long as it is 100% clear that that is what is being reported.
So you don't think that comparing the accuracy of nasal vs throat samples is important.
Nor comparing how many subjects have 1 positive, one negative test.
Ok Professor..
Not to the general public. The general public doesn't give two shits about nasal vs throat samples, they just want to know how many people have been tested and how many people tested positive.
I think we have seen as recently as December that there is a large gap between what anti-Boris, remainer lefties think the general public care about and reality.
I think that Johnson is despairing at the moment. He knows what to do but can`t do it because the public are simply not with him on this. He`s paralysed by populism ... funny if you you think about it. Trapped by the rescue packages and the public`s heightened fear - both of which are of his own government`s making. Can he ditch his populist tendency? Will he jack it in?
I`d say he needs to grow some balls but there`s clear evidence that he has a couple of good ones already.
I think Johnson knows what to do and the public are with him ...
The polling suggests the opposite, but hey, you're a Brexit supporter so everything you think must be what the public thinks.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument though.
That chart also shows that in the time that Boris has been Prime Minister, the Government's net approval rating has increased by 60 points.
Pesky facts, eh?
And now it's coming down. What's your point?
That it's still significantly higher than it was in December when we inflicted Labour's worst defeat in 84 years. Don't get too cocky!
Not really true. Labour's vote share in 2019 was higher than 1983- 1987 - 2010 - and 2015. In England, Labour's performance was similar to 1992. Labour's GB vote share post 2015 has been depressed by circa 2% by its reverses in Scotland.
I see the horrible, horrible, horrible economic numbers have passed without comment on here.
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
And so will the markets.
Of course, the odd thing is the markets haven't realised any of that yet.
But no doubt you are so much cleverer and more far-sighted than anyone else. Even if you can't understand something as simple as the fact that COVID-19 would kill hundreds of thousands in the UK alone in the absence of extreme counter-measures.
You have no possible grounds for saying that.
Infection fatality rate - about 1%.
Estimate of percentage infected in the absence of counter-measures - up to 80%.
Population of UK - 67 million.
What did they teach you at school?
Does everyone get the flu each year? You said without extreme measures.
I get that you are shit scared by all this but dear god man pull yourself together.
You really don't understand the difference between seasonal flu and a new disease to which there is no existing immunity?
I suppose that's at least some kind of explanation for the nonsense you post.
I see the horrible, horrible, horrible economic numbers have passed without comment on here.
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
And so will the markets.
Of course, the odd thing is the markets haven't realised any of that yet.
But no doubt you are so much cleverer and more far-sighted than anyone else. Even if you can't understand something as simple as the fact that COVID-19 would kill hundreds of thousands in the UK alone in the absence of extreme counter-measures.
You have no possible grounds for saying that.
Infection fatality rate - about 1%.
Estimate of percentage infected in the absence of counter-measures - up to 80%.
Population of UK - 67 million.
What did they teach you at school?
Does everyone get the flu each year? You said without extreme measures.
I get that you are shit scared by all this but dear god man pull yourself together.
You really don't understand the difference between seasonal flu and a new disease to which there is no existing immunity?
I suppose that's at least some kind of explanation for the nonsense you post.
A new disease which no one including you can accurately model.
I see the horrible, horrible, horrible economic numbers have passed without comment on here.
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
And so will the markets.
Of course, the odd thing is the markets haven't realised any of that yet.
But no doubt you are so much cleverer and more far-sighted than anyone else. Even if you can't understand something as simple as the fact that COVID-19 would kill hundreds of thousands in the UK alone in the absence of extreme counter-measures.
You have no possible grounds for saying that.
Infection fatality rate - about 1%.
Estimate of percentage infected in the absence of counter-measures - up to 80%.
Population of UK - 67 million.
What did they teach you at school?
Does everyone get the flu each year? You said without extreme measures.
I get that you are shit scared by all this but dear god man pull yourself together.
You really don't understand the difference between seasonal flu and a new disease to which there is no existing immunity?
I suppose that's at least some kind of explanation for the nonsense you post.
A new disease which no one including you can accurately model.
You don't need to model it. You just need to understand that it's estimated to be twice as transmissible as seasonal flu, and that there is no known immunity to it in the population, and no vaccine. The rest is simple arithmetic, if you can be bothered.
Italians are back in their piazzas, Germans in their car-making factories and Danes in their schools – with none seeing a resurgence of the virus. All this raises the stakes for Britain. Hunkering down while others are exporting risks deepening the economic damage, with UK firms losing ground to rivals. But the Prime Minister, who arrived in office with boldness that struck his rivals as borderline craziness, is now more cautious than almost any of his fellow ministers. It’s something that baffles many of them.
The fear, amongst some, is that the Whitehall machine is still on panic stations: too fixated with the first wave of Covid to notice the knock-on effects.
I think the main problem with English politics is not actually the three crap parties, but Whitehall. Good luck sorting that mess out.
I must admit, the line being parroted by the Telegraph and their fellow travellers is really starting to wind me up. The transparent agenda, personality based stories over serious analysis. Add to that a parting blow against the Civil Service, for good measure.
Maybe the Germans, Danes, Itallians are at different stages of the pandemic. Maybe they have different mitigation measures in place? Jeez.
Maybe they have leaders who lead rather than it being run by a bunch of donkeys
I see PHE has told the Torygraph the Government is double counting nasal swab and saliva test carried out on the same individual at the same time as 2 tests. Torygraph says this amounts to tens of thousands of over reporting.
The lab needs to test both - so when calculating test capacity its 2. Seems obvious.
Of course comparison of the two methods is incredibly valuable data for developing future faster tests.
Only the most churlish would complain about this.
Counting it as testing two people as the Tories do is just their usual LIES
Let's see how long they stick with this policy once France, Greece, Italy and Spain open up for tourism and the masses start itching to get on their summer hols - i.e. in about a month.
There will be people who don't want to go to work, don't want to send their kids to school but are willing to fly abroad on holiday.
By the end of the year they will then be complaining that they're unemployed and have no money.
Have you considered that it might be different families wanting to fly abroad from those not wanting the schools to go back?
Have you considered that there might be overlap between the two groups ?
Comments
And IIRC, on this site, almost all of the posters predicting a surprise Labour "win" - aka hung parliament - were ardent Cons.
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/majority-britons-continue-think-government-should-prioritise-health-over-economy-covid-19-response
b) Clearly no self awareness
c) What???? You really can't remember what you said? You really can't remember all the requests from others for you to apologise, which by the way you didn't?
d) Meaningless comment. There is no reason why you can't debate with people who disagree with you politely (admittedly it sometimes get heated and I have done that that myself), but just look at what you type, from the off. You are a very, very angry person. Just look at what you wrote there 'vomit inducing arrogance'. You come over as a very unpleasant individual indeed. As I said no self awareness at all.
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1263692310543564800?s=20
https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/
status/1263565484085166080?s=20
A quarter to a third of calories came from pubs and restaurants, which will have shifted to retail.
People will have stocked up supplies, done diy, house improvements.
Sounds about right to me.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1263773742112608258?s=20
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1263773744138530822?s=20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qk05Cun210
What's the nutshell?
"If our polling methods work, Labour is heading for a defeat of massive proportions on 12 December. There is, however, increasing evidence that the way in which polling is being done in this country (and beyond) is fundamentally broken...
"If we approach the polls not as an accurate snapshot, but as a blurry, unfocused photograph, providing us with an idea of broad trends rather than a crystal clear picture, the gap between Labour and the Tories has been narrowing as the campaign goes on, which according to some has increased the possibility of a hung parliament. It is worth noting that the rightwing media is increasingly warning against the dangers of a hung parliament, suggesting they might be getting scared...
"Next week we will know if the tweaks they made after the 2017 general election have increased the accuracy of their models or not. I, for one, hope they have failed again.
"Bart Cammaerts is a professor of politics and communication at the London School of Economics and Political Science."
It suggests to me that if the level of infection is low enough, this pandemic can be managed by tracking and tracing without swingeing restrictions on the activities of the population as a whole.
But what are the capabilities of tracking and tracing in the UK? Are they capable of handling the number of active cases - on the order of 150,000 if we can believe the ONS survey?
If only we hadn't ended up with an infection rate among the highest in the world ...
However lefties tend to have a systems approach i.e. does society benefit from this way of making decisions?
I think for libertarians it is about ownership - the government is their property and they get to decide what it does, for good or bad (the purple wallpaper analogy).
Plus loony stuff on comedy sites like the Guardian, of course:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/06/tories-victory-stats-tell-different-story-labour-youthquake
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/30/people-passionate-politics-radical-solutions-labour-election-tory-austerity
They have MPs to spare and years until the next election, neither of which is to be sniffed at. But an unknown (but surely non-trival) chunk of that majority reflects the awfulness of Corbyn as LOTO.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/03/23/railways-have-nationalised-no-turning-back/
If we pretend its not happening, then maybe it isn't eh?
Stage one of UK plc totally and utterly f8cked is now in place. A gargantuan increase in unproductive public spending leading to a grand canyon deficit.
The ground for stage two, a deal cat bounce in economic activity, is being prepared by the government's absurd nannying around what can and can't be done by businesses and the enormous disincentive featherbedding of furlough.
Stage three, the stage that will really destroy the government's little game is starting even now. Sterling drifting in the currency markets.
In a couple of months, The government will start wondering where on earth the UK economy went. And how in heavens name it can justify all that spending.
And so will the markets.
One slight worry though - if it looks grim for the Donald does he bomb China?
But no doubt you are so much cleverer and more far-sighted than anyone else. Even if you can't understand something as simple as the fact that COVID-19 would kill hundreds of thousands in the UK alone in the absence of extreme counter-measures.
The advice to self-isolate for only 7 days is absurd. The only reason not to change it is the fear of politicians looking foolish - again. Surely that has happened so many times already that it shouldn't stand in the way of saving lives.
Estimate of percentage infected in the absence of counter-measures - up to 80%.
Population of UK - 67 million.
What did they teach you at school?
I get that you are shit scared by all this but dear god man pull yourself together.
They can't even multiply three numbers together to find out how many people would die in the absence of counter-measures.
And the saddest thing is they don't even appreciate the depths of their own ignorance.
I suppose that's at least some kind of explanation for the nonsense you post.
I also note some polling data from HYUFD on the previous thread, which again looks pretty dire for Trumpton.
Perhaps @HYUFD and @kinabalu will be proved right after all and Trumpton will get his sorry arse kicked in November.
I just think it's too good to be true, which might be colouring my judgement.