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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited May 2020
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Elections won

    Boris 3
    Brown 0

    As for referendums...

    Winning a few beauty contests against very ugly competition doesn't make you competent to run a country. It is one of the weaknesses of our system. Bozo's competition so far has been two washed up has-been lefties. He is no Churchill, no Thatcher. He is an empty chasm of a man that would say anything, do anything so that he can put the PM badge on his boy scout uniform. Eventually the country, with the exception of a few blinkered fanbois will have nothing but contempt for him, and rightly so.
    Go, Nigel!

    When it comes to BJ assessment on here you are the Carly Simon.
    That 'Eventually' is doing a lot of work. Is it going to kick in before or after Boris' second landslide?
    I would love to rule that out but I can't. He does appeal to many. He's the Mantovani of modern British politics.
    Boris will always appeal to the hard Brexit, Leave voting pro WTO terms crowd, for them he can do no wrong.

    Starmer has zero chance of winning them over, he needs to focus instead on uniting Remainers behind him and soft Leavers who would accept staying in the single market and are concerned about the government's Covid response
    But that will be pretty irrelevant if Brexit has faded to be just a background issue of little interest beyond to a few stalwarts. I suspect it will be no more central to a 2024 election campaign than the Iraq War proved to be in 2010.
    Brexit will not fade into the background as we will almost certainly be on WTO terms next year, so unless that is going well it will still be an issue.

    The Iraq War only faded into the background by 2010 as Brown replaced Blair as PM and withdrew UK combat forces from Iraq by mid 2009. Obama also having replaced Bush as US President by then too
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    EPG said:

    Free money into 2021 (they won't cut it before Christmas) means the day of reckoning is delayed at the cost of a billion pounds for every two days of non-reckoning.

    The free money that they have to announce has no cost. In fact we'll all be better off. Won't happen twice.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Andy_JS said:

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Maybe we should trust the people to do the right thing.
    Bozo tried that. They went on the lash.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Omnium said:

    EPG said:

    Free money into 2021 (they won't cut it before Christmas) means the day of reckoning is delayed at the cost of a billion pounds for every two days of non-reckoning.

    The free money that they have to announce has no cost. In fact we'll all be better off. Won't happen twice.
    BBC quoted 8 billion per month so to the end of October 8 x 8 = £64 billion
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Elections won

    Boris 3
    Brown 0

    As for referendums...

    Winning a few beauty contests against very ugly competition doesn't make you competent to run a country. It is one of the weaknesses of our system. Bozo's competition so far has been two washed up has-been lefties. He is no Churchill, no Thatcher. He is an empty chasm of a man that would say anything, do anything so that he can put the PM badge on his boy scout uniform. Eventually the country, with the exception of a few blinkered fanbois will have nothing but contempt for him, and rightly so.
    Go, Nigel!

    When it comes to BJ assessment on here you are the Carly Simon.
    That 'Eventually' is doing a lot of work. Is it going to kick in before or after Boris' second landslide?
    I would love to rule that out but I can't. He does appeal to many. He's the Mantovani of modern British politics.
    Boris will always appeal to the hard Brexit, Leave voting pro WTO terms crowd, for them he can do no wrong.

    Starmer has zero chance of winning them over, he needs to focus instead on uniting Remainers behind him and soft Leavers who would accept staying in the single market and are concerned about the government's Covid response
    But that will be pretty irrelevant if Brexit has faded to be just a background issue of little interest beyond to a few stalwarts. I suspect it will be no more central to a 2024 election campaign than the Iraq War proved to be in 2010.
    Brexit will not fade into the background as we will almost certainly be on WTO terms next year, so unless that is going well it will still be an issue.

    The Iraq War only faded into the background as Brown withdrew UK forces from Iraq and after Blair left office
    I strongly disagree. Starmer will not make a serious attempt to revive the issue, and whilst the LDs might seek to do so , few voters will be interested.
    Iraq was not a central issue even in 2005 - though its aftermath did drive many Labour voters to the LDs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    edited May 2020
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Elections won

    Boris 3
    Brown 0

    As for referendums...

    Winning a few beauty contests against very ugly competition doesn't make you competent to run a country. It is one of the weaknesses of our system. Bozo's competition so far has been two washed up has-been lefties. He is no Churchill, no Thatcher. He is an empty chasm of a man that would say anything, do anything so that he can put the PM badge on his boy scout uniform. Eventually the country, with the exception of a few blinkered fanbois will have nothing but contempt for him, and rightly so.
    Go, Nigel!

    When it comes to BJ assessment on here you are the Carly Simon.
    That 'Eventually' is doing a lot of work. Is it going to kick in before or after Boris' second landslide?
    I would love to rule that out but I can't. He does appeal to many. He's the Mantovani of modern British politics.
    Boris will always appeal to the hard Brexit, Leave voting pro WTO terms crowd, for them he can do no wrong.

    Starmer has zero chance of winning them over, he needs to focus instead on uniting Remainers behind him and soft Leavers who would accept staying in the single market and are concerned about the government's Covid response
    But that will be pretty irrelevant if Brexit has faded to be just a background issue of little interest beyond to a few stalwarts. I suspect it will be no more central to a 2024 election campaign than the Iraq War proved to be in 2010.
    Brexit will not fade into the background as we will almost certainly be on WTO terms next year, so unless that is going well it will still be an issue.

    The Iraq War only faded into the background as Brown withdrew UK forces from Iraq and after Blair left office
    I strongly disagree. Starmer will not make a serious attempt to revive the issue, and whilst the LDs might seek to do so , few voters will be interested.
    Iraq was not a central issue even in 2005 - though its aftermath did drive many Labour voters to the LDs.
    Iraq saw the Labour vote slump from 40% in 2001 to just 35% in 2005 with the LD vote rising to 23%.

    Starmer will not try and reverse Brexit but he will almost certainly push rejoining the single market which Boris will oppose
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775

    Omnium said:

    EPG said:

    Free money into 2021 (they won't cut it before Christmas) means the day of reckoning is delayed at the cost of a billion pounds for every two days of non-reckoning.

    The free money that they have to announce has no cost. In fact we'll all be better off. Won't happen twice.
    BBC quoted 8 billion per month so to the end of October 8 x 8 = £64 billion
    You mistake me - all governments will print huge amounts of money. They have to do it together. We'll all be stunned, but actually nothing changes. It is though a one-time deal.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    edited May 2020

    Omnium said:

    EPG said:

    Free money into 2021 (they won't cut it before Christmas) means the day of reckoning is delayed at the cost of a billion pounds for every two days of non-reckoning.

    The free money that they have to announce has no cost. In fact we'll all be better off. Won't happen twice.
    BBC quoted 8 billion per month so to the end of October 8 x 8 = £64 billion
    At 0.1% interest, that is a cost of £64m.

    Or £8m a month for those 8 months.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    EPG said:

    Free money into 2021 (they won't cut it before Christmas) means the day of reckoning is delayed at the cost of a billion pounds for every two days of non-reckoning.

    The free money that they have to announce has no cost. In fact we'll all be better off. Won't happen twice.
    BBC quoted 8 billion per month so to the end of October 8 x 8 = £64 billion
    You mistake me - all governments will print huge amounts of money. They have to do it together. We'll all be stunned, but actually nothing changes. It is though a one-time deal.
    Sorry if I mistook your comment, but the cost as projected by the BBC is interesting
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,390

    Andy_JS said:

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Maybe we should trust the people to do the right thing.
    We did and they ignored it comprehensively

    The result was that the car parking along the long stretches of Rhos to Old Colwyn were lost to all parking, including residents with tow truck signs. Nobody now parks near our beaches but the local residents just walk to them
    I'm with Big G on this. It's not about the journey, it's about the destination. I live in probably the most popular coastal destination in the UK, and we expect to be inundated on the next warm Saturday; severe crowding will be impossible to stop, and virus spread looks high risk.
    Two other quick observations. The international comparisons graph was removed from the press conference today, and I don't imagine it will come back. Despite its shortcomings, I'd wager it would have stayed if it had showed a better picture.
    Not enough attention has been paid to the reprimand to Hancock from the UK Statistics Authority on the testing data, linked by somebody earlier. The lack of clarity in the data is very poor, and quite deliberate - it's not hard to separate out the measures.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Elections won

    Boris 3
    Brown 0

    As for referendums...

    Winning a few beauty contests against very ugly competition doesn't make you competent to run a country. It is one of the weaknesses of our system. Bozo's competition so far has been two washed up has-been lefties. He is no Churchill, no Thatcher. He is an empty chasm of a man that would say anything, do anything so that he can put the PM badge on his boy scout uniform. Eventually the country, with the exception of a few blinkered fanbois will have nothing but contempt for him, and rightly so.
    Go, Nigel!

    When it comes to BJ assessment on here you are the Carly Simon.
    That 'Eventually' is doing a lot of work. Is it going to kick in before or after Boris' second landslide?
    I would love to rule that out but I can't. He does appeal to many. He's the Mantovani of modern British politics.
    Boris will always appeal to the hard Brexit, Leave voting pro WTO terms crowd, for them he can do no wrong.

    Starmer has zero chance of winning them over, he needs to focus instead on uniting Remainers behind him and soft Leavers who would accept staying in the single market and are concerned about the government's Covid response
    But that will be pretty irrelevant if Brexit has faded to be just a background issue of little interest beyond to a few stalwarts. I suspect it will be no more central to a 2024 election campaign than the Iraq War proved to be in 2010.
    Brexit will not fade into the background as we will almost certainly be on WTO terms next year, so unless that is going well it will still be an issue.

    The Iraq War only faded into the background as Brown withdrew UK forces from Iraq and after Blair left office
    I strongly disagree. Starmer will not make a serious attempt to revive the issue, and whilst the LDs might seek to do so , few voters will be interested.
    Iraq was not a central issue even in 2005 - though its aftermath did drive many Labour voters to the LDs.
    Iraq saw the Labour vote slump from 40% in 2001 to just 35% in 2005 with the LD vote rising to 23%.

    Starmer will not try and reverse Brexit but he will almost certainly push rejoining the single market which Boris will oppose
    Labour's GB share in 2005 was 36% , and the shift to the LDs had occurred long before the campaign itself.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Elections won

    Boris 3
    Brown 0

    As for referendums...

    Winning a few beauty contests against very ugly competition doesn't make you competent to run a country. It is one of the weaknesses of our system. Bozo's competition so far has been two washed up has-been lefties. He is no Churchill, no Thatcher. He is an empty chasm of a man that would say anything, do anything so that he can put the PM badge on his boy scout uniform. Eventually the country, with the exception of a few blinkered fanbois will have nothing but contempt for him, and rightly so.
    Go, Nigel!

    When it comes to BJ assessment on here you are the Carly Simon.
    That 'Eventually' is doing a lot of work. Is it going to kick in before or after Boris' second landslide?
    I would love to rule that out but I can't. He does appeal to many. He's the Mantovani of modern British politics.
    Boris will always appeal to the hard Brexit, Leave voting pro WTO terms crowd, for them he can do no wrong.

    Starmer has zero chance of winning them over, he needs to focus instead on uniting Remainers behind him and soft Leavers who would accept staying in the single market and are concerned about the government's Covid response
    But that will be pretty irrelevant if Brexit has faded to be just a background issue of little interest beyond to a few stalwarts. I suspect it will be no more central to a 2024 election campaign than the Iraq War proved to be in 2010.
    Brexit will not fade into the background as we will almost certainly be on WTO terms next year, so unless that is going well it will still be an issue.

    The Iraq War only faded into the background as Brown withdrew UK forces from Iraq and after Blair left office
    I strongly disagree. Starmer will not make a serious attempt to revive the issue, and whilst the LDs might seek to do so , few voters will be interested.
    Iraq was not a central issue even in 2005 - though its aftermath did drive many Labour voters to the LDs.
    Iraq saw the Labour vote slump from 40% in 2001 to just 35% in 2005 with the LD vote rising to 23%.

    Starmer will not try and reverse Brexit but he will almost certainly push rejoining the single market which Boris will oppose
    Labour's GB share in 2005 was 36% , and the shift to the LDs had occurred long before the campaign itself.
    The shift was all down to Iraq, 36% was the lowest voteshare for any re elected government since WW2
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    Omnium said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Apparently you will have to ask to go for a pee-wee when you fly Ryanair. Like being back at school.

    Social distancing on planes seems somewhat futile to me.
    Probably a good idea in the toilets, though.
    I don't know, obtaining membership of the mile high club is fun.
    Fun in principle perhaps. Did you enjoy it?
    I'm a member of the half mile high club.

    It's like the mile high club, but only requires half the number of participants.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Omnium said:

    EPG said:

    Free money into 2021 (they won't cut it before Christmas) means the day of reckoning is delayed at the cost of a billion pounds for every two days of non-reckoning.

    The free money that they have to announce has no cost. In fact we'll all be better off. Won't happen twice.
    Someone has to stop it before it can happen twice. That will not be a fun day.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited May 2020

    HYUFD said:
    In reality it will be even less.

    And it explains much about general poor health and excess covid deaths.
    No way on God's green earth 56% of the population exercise at least once a day. Heck I don't do that. 3 or 4 times a week for me.
    Heading to the park for a ciggy and a natter is probably lots of people's idea of exercise though.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Elections won

    Boris 3
    Brown 0

    As for referendums...

    Winning a few beauty contests against very ugly competition doesn't make you competent to run a country. It is one of the weaknesses of our system. Bozo's competition so far has been two washed up has-been lefties. He is no Churchill, no Thatcher. He is an empty chasm of a man that would say anything, do anything so that he can put the PM badge on his boy scout uniform. Eventually the country, with the exception of a few blinkered fanbois will have nothing but contempt for him, and rightly so.
    Go, Nigel!

    When it comes to BJ assessment on here you are the Carly Simon.
    That 'Eventually' is doing a lot of work. Is it going to kick in before or after Boris' second landslide?
    I would love to rule that out but I can't. He does appeal to many. He's the Mantovani of modern British politics.
    Boris will always appeal to the hard Brexit, Leave voting pro WTO terms crowd, for them he can do no wrong.

    Starmer has zero chance of winning them over, he needs to focus instead on uniting Remainers behind him and soft Leavers who would accept staying in the single market and are concerned about the government's Covid response
    But that will be pretty irrelevant if Brexit has faded to be just a background issue of little interest beyond to a few stalwarts. I suspect it will be no more central to a 2024 election campaign than the Iraq War proved to be in 2010.
    Brexit will not fade into the background as we will almost certainly be on WTO terms next year, so unless that is going well it will still be an issue.

    The Iraq War only faded into the background as Brown withdrew UK forces from Iraq and after Blair left office
    I strongly disagree. Starmer will not make a serious attempt to revive the issue, and whilst the LDs might seek to do so , few voters will be interested.
    Iraq was not a central issue even in 2005 - though its aftermath did drive many Labour voters to the LDs.
    Iraq saw the Labour vote slump from 40% in 2001 to just 35% in 2005 with the LD vote rising to 23%.

    Starmer will not try and reverse Brexit but he will almost certainly push rejoining the single market which Boris will oppose
    Labour's GB share in 2005 was 36% , and the shift to the LDs had occurred long before the campaign itself.
    The shift was all down to Iraq, 36% was the lowest voteshare for any re elected government since WW2
    We still won though, didn't we?

    Shows what the public thought of your lot.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    EPG said:

    Free money into 2021 (they won't cut it before Christmas) means the day of reckoning is delayed at the cost of a billion pounds for every two days of non-reckoning.

    The free money that they have to announce has no cost. In fact we'll all be better off. Won't happen twice.
    BBC quoted 8 billion per month so to the end of October 8 x 8 = £64 billion
    You mistake me - all governments will print huge amounts of money. They have to do it together. We'll all be stunned, but actually nothing changes. It is though a one-time deal.
    Sorry if I mistook your comment, but the cost as projected by the BBC is interesting
    No need to apologise at all - I have long known you to have only the best intentions.

    Re topic - It is, undoubtedly.

    The real cost is more like 50bn per month though. (My estimate)

  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    Omnium said:

    EPG said:

    Free money into 2021 (they won't cut it before Christmas) means the day of reckoning is delayed at the cost of a billion pounds for every two days of non-reckoning.

    The free money that they have to announce has no cost. In fact we'll all be better off. Won't happen twice.
    BBC quoted 8 billion per month so to the end of October 8 x 8 = £64 billion
    At 0.1% interest, that is a cost of £64m.

    Or £8m a month for those 8 months.
    Makes you wonder why they bother with income tax.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Elections won

    Boris 3
    Brown 0

    As for referendums...

    Winning a few beauty contests against very ugly competition doesn't make you competent to run a country. It is one of the weaknesses of our system. Bozo's competition so far has been two washed up has-been lefties. He is no Churchill, no Thatcher. He is an empty chasm of a man that would say anything, do anything so that he can put the PM badge on his boy scout uniform. Eventually the country, with the exception of a few blinkered fanbois will have nothing but contempt for him, and rightly so.
    Go, Nigel!

    When it comes to BJ assessment on here you are the Carly Simon.
    That 'Eventually' is doing a lot of work. Is it going to kick in before or after Boris' second landslide?
    I would love to rule that out but I can't. He does appeal to many. He's the Mantovani of modern British politics.
    Boris will always appeal to the hard Brexit, Leave voting pro WTO terms crowd, for them he can do no wrong.

    Starmer has zero chance of winning them over, he needs to focus instead on uniting Remainers behind him and soft Leavers who would accept staying in the single market and are concerned about the government's Covid response
    But that will be pretty irrelevant if Brexit has faded to be just a background issue of little interest beyond to a few stalwarts. I suspect it will be no more central to a 2024 election campaign than the Iraq War proved to be in 2010.
    Brexit will not fade into the background as we will almost certainly be on WTO terms next year, so unless that is going well it will still be an issue.

    The Iraq War only faded into the background as Brown withdrew UK forces from Iraq and after Blair left office
    I strongly disagree. Starmer will not make a serious attempt to revive the issue, and whilst the LDs might seek to do so , few voters will be interested.
    Iraq was not a central issue even in 2005 - though its aftermath did drive many Labour voters to the LDs.
    Iraq saw the Labour vote slump from 40% in 2001 to just 35% in 2005 with the LD vote rising to 23%.

    Starmer will not try and reverse Brexit but he will almost certainly push rejoining the single market which Boris will oppose
    Labour's GB share in 2005 was 36% , and the shift to the LDs had occurred long before the campaign itself.
    The shift was all down to Iraq, 36% was the lowest voteshare for any re elected government since WW2
    We still won though, didn't we?

    Shows what the public thought of your lot.
    Howard did gain 32 seats, though admittedly only got 32.4% of the UK vote (but he did narrowly win most votes in England)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Oh dont be so miserable- Driving anywhere is not a cause of transmission . In fact the more you drive the less likely you are to see anyone you know at the end of it so less likely to mix. Lots of misery and judging of others on here tonight.


    With respect that is so naive

    Why do you think North Wales police stop people at the English border

    Given a chance Snowdonia and our beaches will be overwhelmed with day trippers and social distancing goes out of the window.

    The same may well happen across England if we have good weather this weekend
    I think you said previously that there will be no closing of the border between Scotland & England. Can I just check on what the difference between closing a border and the police stopping people at the border?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Apparently you will have to ask to go for a pee-wee when you fly Ryanair. Like being back at school.

    Social distancing on planes seems somewhat futile to me.
    Probably a good idea in the toilets, though.
    I don't know, obtaining membership of the mile high club is fun.
    Fun in principle perhaps. Did you enjoy it?
    I'm a member of the half mile high club.

    It's like the mile high club, but only requires half the number of participants.
    Ah well - those attractive stewardesses throwing themselves at you can be de-humanising after all. I can see why you may have switched off.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    rcs1000 said:

    Omnium said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Apparently you will have to ask to go for a pee-wee when you fly Ryanair. Like being back at school.

    Social distancing on planes seems somewhat futile to me.
    Probably a good idea in the toilets, though.
    I don't know, obtaining membership of the mile high club is fun.
    Fun in principle perhaps. Did you enjoy it?
    I'm a member of the half mile high club.

    It's like the mile high club, but only requires half the number of participants.
    Does membership of that club come in handy ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:
    In reality it will be even less.

    And it explains much about general poor health and excess covid deaths.
    No way on God's green earth 56% of the population exercise at least once a day. Heck I don't do that. 3 or 4 times a week for me.
    Heading to the park for a ciggy and a natter is probably lots of people's idea of exercise though.
    More like cutting a large slice of chocolate cake and raising it up to their mouths. And lift and bite and down and lift and bite and down and lift and bite and down...
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    That's funny, my first reaction was that the author must be using "Nordic" approvingly.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Oh dont be so miserable- Driving anywhere is not a cause of transmission . In fact the more you drive the less likely you are to see anyone you know at the end of it so less likely to mix. Lots of misery and judging of others on here tonight.


    With respect that is so naive

    Why do you think North Wales police stop people at the English border

    Given a chance Snowdonia and our beaches will be overwhelmed with day trippers and social distancing goes out of the window.

    The same may well happen across England if we have good weather this weekend
    I think you said previously that there will be no closing of the border between Scotland & England. Can I just check on what the difference between closing a border and the police stopping people at the border?
    The border is open for legitimate access to Wales but not tourist trips

    Also this is temporary, in Independence it would be permanent
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:
    In reality it will be even less.

    And it explains much about general poor health and excess covid deaths.
    No way on God's green earth 56% of the population exercise at least once a day. Heck I don't do that. 3 or 4 times a week for me.
    Heading to the park for a ciggy and a natter is probably lots of people's idea of exercise though.
    An inconvenience of going to work means my exercise has to be an evening walk which is somewhat less pleasant this week.

    I would hope those on furlough make good use of their extra free time - they're likely to regret the missed opportunity if they don't.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    That's funny, my first reaction was that the author must be using "Nordic" approvingly.
    My first reaction was it was a load of vitriolic nonsense which no sane person would believe.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    Oh to see a parallel universe where Labour were in charge during all of this.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    stodge said:

    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    That's funny, my first reaction was that the author must be using "Nordic" approvingly.
    My first reaction was it was a load of vitriolic nonsense which no sane person would believe.
    It sounds about right, actually. :D
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Omnium said:

    EPG said:

    Free money into 2021 (they won't cut it before Christmas) means the day of reckoning is delayed at the cost of a billion pounds for every two days of non-reckoning.

    The free money that they have to announce has no cost. In fact we'll all be better off. Won't happen twice.
    BBC quoted 8 billion per month so to the end of October 8 x 8 = £64 billion
    That's the cost of the scheme and doesn't take into account lost tax revenue.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,766
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    Oh to see a parallel universe where Labour were in charge during all of this.
    Depends who you mean by Labour. If Corbyn was in charge there would be concern as to whether the virus would badly suppress the five year tractor production figures. :smiley:
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    stodge said:

    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    That's funny, my first reaction was that the author must be using "Nordic" approvingly.
    My first reaction was it was a load of vitriolic nonsense which no sane person would believe.
    I thought "where is Eadric"......
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    stodge said:

    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    That's funny, my first reaction was that the author must be using "Nordic" approvingly.
    My first reaction was it was a load of vitriolic nonsense which no sane person would believe.
    I believed it up to the part about foreign holidays. That was a stereotype too far, you'd have to be consciously hamming it up as a stuck-up intellectual to go on foreign holidays.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:
    In reality it will be even less.

    And it explains much about general poor health and excess covid deaths.
    No way on God's green earth 56% of the population exercise at least once a day. Heck I don't do that. 3 or 4 times a week for me.
    Heading to the park for a ciggy and a natter is probably lots of people's idea of exercise though.
    Yes I think people's idea of exercise is pretty liberal.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Oh dont be so miserable- Driving anywhere is not a cause of transmission . In fact the more you drive the less likely you are to see anyone you know at the end of it so less likely to mix. Lots of misery and judging of others on here tonight.


    With respect that is so naive

    Why do you think North Wales police stop people at the English border

    Given a chance Snowdonia and our beaches will be overwhelmed with day trippers and social distancing goes out of the window.

    The same may well happen across England if we have good weather this weekend
    I think you said previously that there will be no closing of the border between Scotland & England. Can I just check on what the difference between closing a border and the police stopping people at the border?
    The border is open for legitimate access to Wales but not tourist trips

    Also this is temporary, in Independence it would be permanent
    What is Welsh for 'razor wire'?
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    Oh to see a parallel universe where Labour were in charge during all of this.
    The cost of the furlough would be crippling Britain's future.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    Nigelb said:
    Sad
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    Oh to see a parallel universe where Labour were in charge during all of this.
    Depends who you mean by Labour. If Corbyn was in charge there would be concern as to whether the virus would badly suppress the five year tractor production figures. :smiley:
    Isn't 100,000 per day the tractor stat of the moment?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Evening all :)

    The statistics of interest for me today were first 44% of employed adults working at home compared with 12% this time last year. It may well be between a quarter to a third of employed adults will be working at home even once this is over and that would mark a significant shift in working patterns.

    The transport figures are only up to Sunday and illustrate (surprisingly to some) lower vehicular traffic over the Bank Holiday weekend and both tube and train passenger numbers still very low.

    It will be fascinating to see those numbers in the coming days.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Andy_JS said:

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Maybe we should trust the people to do the right thing.
    We did and they ignored it comprehensively

    The result was that the car parking along the long stretches of Rhos to Old Colwyn were lost to all parking, including residents with tow truck signs. Nobody now parks near our beaches but the local residents just walk to them
    I'm with Big G on this. It's not about the journey, it's about the destination. I live in probably the most popular coastal destination in the UK, and we expect to be inundated on the next warm Saturday; severe crowding will be impossible to stop, and virus spread looks high risk.
    Two other quick observations. The international comparisons graph was removed from the press conference today, and I don't imagine it will come back. Despite its shortcomings, I'd wager it would have stayed if it had showed a better picture.
    Not enough attention has been paid to the reprimand to Hancock from the UK Statistics Authority on the testing data, linked by somebody earlier. The lack of clarity in the data is very poor, and quite deliberate - it's not hard to separate out the measures.
    They won't wait till Saturday - everybody's on holiday anyway.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    "Bryan Adams apologizes for blaming COVID-19 on "bat eating," "virus making greedy bastards""

    https://news.avclub.com/bryan-adams-apologizes-for-blaming-covid-19-on-bat-eat-1843416617
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    I suspect that more than a few school teachers share precisely the same attitudes. Indeed, they're probably even more radical, because they've effectively been converted into college lecturers themselves. Lockdown means that all they have to do is set lessons, mark work, and perhaps answer a few questions: all of the tedious slog of dealing with children's tears, temper tantrums, bullying, fighting and all the other disciplinary and pastoral issues has been dumped right back on the parents, and it will stay that way for so long as the children aren't allowed back into the classroom. Why would they want them back at all?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775
    Andy_JS said:

    "Bryan Adams apologizes for blaming COVID-19 on "bat eating," "virus making greedy bastards""

    https://news.avclub.com/bryan-adams-apologizes-for-blaming-covid-19-on-bat-eat-1843416617

    I can't see how that's important.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    What a load of utter bollocks.

    I know quite a few academics and they are shitting themselves, most of them are expecting to be out of a job soon as the revenue from foreign students will dry up.

    Prof O'Hara talked about something similar yesterday.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1259883763212922880
    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1259884284862742530
    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1259884812585795584
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    IshmaelZ said:

    Andy_JS said:

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Maybe we should trust the people to do the right thing.
    We did and they ignored it comprehensively

    The result was that the car parking along the long stretches of Rhos to Old Colwyn were lost to all parking, including residents with tow truck signs. Nobody now parks near our beaches but the local residents just walk to them
    I'm with Big G on this. It's not about the journey, it's about the destination. I live in probably the most popular coastal destination in the UK, and we expect to be inundated on the next warm Saturday; severe crowding will be impossible to stop, and virus spread looks high risk.
    Two other quick observations. The international comparisons graph was removed from the press conference today, and I don't imagine it will come back. Despite its shortcomings, I'd wager it would have stayed if it had showed a better picture.
    Not enough attention has been paid to the reprimand to Hancock from the UK Statistics Authority on the testing data, linked by somebody earlier. The lack of clarity in the data is very poor, and quite deliberate - it's not hard to separate out the measures.
    They won't wait till Saturday - everybody's on holiday anyway.
    Speak for yourself!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250

    Mortimer said:

    Omnium said:

    Mortimer said:

    This is what the peasant wagons are looking like in Manchester this week.


    No masks?
    I'm in no way convinced that masks will catch on.
    You'd see I'm laughing but the mask hides it.

    Masks are just the new normal now - irrationally. Mask-billionaires will no doubt be on tv soon displaying their wisdom.
    Went for a walk today through a relatively busy high st. Saw 5 people wearing one correctly, and 4 people wearing them incorrectly. Out of about 60.
    Including Niqaabs?
    Thought the guidance was masks not necessary outside since the risk of transmission is so low in those circs.

    51 people being sensible.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    RobD said:


    Oh to see a parallel universe where Labour were in charge during all of this.

    I imagine some of the people on here who are currently praising the Government's performance to the skies might not be so effusive in their praise.

    Playing counterfactual for a moment, would Jeremy Corbyn (aged 70) have chosen to self-isolate? It would have been odd asking others to do so and not doing it himself so that leaves John McDonnell as the front man for the Government.

    He wouldn't do a bad job with the presentation and, assuming he doesn't get sick himself, would do pretty well with the financial aspects. After all, everybody loves free money and everybody really loves the person dishing out the free money so McDonnell becomes a popular man.

    We'd all know Jon Ashworth well by now - as Health Secretary he would also be front and centre in the communication war but we'd see the same scientific and medical experts who presumably would have doled out the same advice.

    Would it have been different? Probably only at the margins I suspect.

  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    edited May 2020

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Oh dont be so miserable- Driving anywhere is not a cause of transmission . In fact the more you drive the less likely you are to see anyone you know at the end of it so less likely to mix. Lots of misery and judging of others on here tonight.


    With respect that is so naive

    Why do you think North Wales police stop people at the English border

    Given a chance Snowdonia and our beaches will be overwhelmed with day trippers and social distancing goes out of the window.

    The same may well happen across England if we have good weather this weekend
    It is not naive at all. By requiring people living in densely populated English cities to remain there, the Welsh Government is effectively telling people to instead mix far more closely in the very limited recreational space available to them in English public parks than would ever happen in Wales.

    The incidence of CV in Gwynedd is amongst the lowest in the UK. One of the reasons is because there is so much public open space to go around in an area which has a low density of population even in the summer let alone now. At the moment I imagine that I could comply with social distancing on the 4km long stretch of sand between Tywyn and Aberdyfi (by my vacant holiday home) if I was required not to get within 200m of anyone else, never mind 2m. Sharing some of that excess space would reduce the risks to English people forced to remain at home in crowded cities, with no appreciable increase in risk to Welsh residents.

    People should be required to social distance by 2m, and the role of government should be limited to ensuring that they do and requiring facilities to close only where they obviously can't. It's far easier to social distance on a Welsh beach than it is in a Welsh garden centre, but they're content to open the latter and put the former off limits. I detect a streak of nationalist populism in all this, Drakeford having decided that there are votes to be gained by having a go at people living in Birmingham.
    You reference Gwynedd but the problem is far more acute in our part of North Wales and including Snowdonia, which are within less than one hour or two hours from Liverpool and Manchester. Before the police controlled our border we were overwhelmed with visitors both on our beaches and in Snowdonia making social distancing impossible

    The fear for unrestricted driving in England must be for the Lake District, especially as Cumbria is struggling with covid, but also the Peak district, the West Country and myriads of English beaches.

    Drakeford has been and is a disaster for Wales and the sooner he is gone, hopefully in Spring 2021, the better Wales will be
    The answer to that is not to ban all visitors whereever they are going but to limit access to or if necessary close the very specific areas where visitors are congregating in extremely dense concentrations so that they disperse more widely. Not all beaches will be grossly overcrowded, it'll just be the ones in the middle of resorts. If it can't be avoided, close those beaches only. Close the car parking close by those beaches. Close specific visitor attractions. But don't close the whole of Wales.

    There is plenty enough space in Wales to go around so don't restrict access to all of it.

    And the point is that all this is relative, the recreational space in cities is very limited, and the overcrowding in cities is likely to be far worse if you coop everyone up there.

    If the Welsh Tourist Board run a campaign in 2021 claiming that Wales is welcoming to English visitors, they'll be laughed at.

    PS. I referenced Gwynedd because you mentioned Snowdonia.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    So if a family member puts their house on the market can you go to visit them by arranging a viewing?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    Have we yet seen any comments from sensible Trade Union leaders?

    I've seen the stuff from Mary Bousted (previously NUT heavily influenced by SWP for many years), and presumably FBU, UCU etc incoming, and McCluskey who bought Corbyn's Labour, and the boss of the TUC saying exactly what she has always said (big government, micromanagement, everything proceduralised to the nth, and more money for my members).
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Scott_xP said:
    We don't really know the true number, though. I suspect it's somewhere between forty and fifty thousand and some of those who have recovered will suffer permanent health problems as a result.

    Speaking to a few colleagues at a team chat this afternoon, those who watched the Hospital Special last night have become strong supporters of a continued lock down.

    For all the statistics that most people under 50 are at little or no risk, it's still your life you're gambling not a tenner from your wallet and even the odds on survival aren't tempting enough for a lot of people to want to take the risk.

    The assumption we'll all come charging out of our homes and spend money like water and queue for hours for our Big Mac fix and a haircut in order to make this a "V" shape recession is going to be challenged.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    stodge said:

    RobD said:


    Oh to see a parallel universe where Labour were in charge during all of this.

    I imagine some of the people on here who are currently praising the Government's performance to the skies might not be so effusive in their praise.

    Playing counterfactual for a moment, would Jeremy Corbyn (aged 70) have chosen to self-isolate? It would have been odd asking others to do so and not doing it himself so that leaves John McDonnell as the front man for the Government.

    He wouldn't do a bad job with the presentation and, assuming he doesn't get sick himself, would do pretty well with the financial aspects. After all, everybody loves free money and everybody really loves the person dishing out the free money so McDonnell becomes a popular man.

    We'd all know Jon Ashworth well by now - as Health Secretary he would also be front and centre in the communication war but we'd see the same scientific and medical experts who presumably would have doled out the same advice.

    Would it have been different? Probably only at the margins I suspect.

    It would be quite different. The right would be complaining about socialism and civil liberties even if the govt followed the exact same policies.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey emailed employees on Tuesday telling them that they’d be allowed to work from home permanently, even after the coronavirus pandemic lockdown passes. Some jobs that require physical presence, such as maintaining servers, will still require employees to come in.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Oh dont be so miserable- Driving anywhere is not a cause of transmission . In fact the more you drive the less likely you are to see anyone you know at the end of it so less likely to mix. Lots of misery and judging of others on here tonight.


    With respect that is so naive

    Why do you think North Wales police stop people at the English border

    Given a chance Snowdonia and our beaches will be overwhelmed with day trippers and social distancing goes out of the window.

    The same may well happen across England if we have good weather this weekend
    I think you said previously that there will be no closing of the border between Scotland & England. Can I just check on what the difference between closing a border and the police stopping people at the border?
    The border is open for legitimate access to Wales but not tourist trips

    Also this is temporary, in Independence it would be permanent
    What is Welsh for 'razor wire'?
    "I am not in the office at the moment. Send any work to be translated".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Helpful and productive attitude from teaching unions...

    https://twitter.com/cyclingkev/status/1260137852396015622?s=19
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited May 2020
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    Stocky said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Not keen then.
    Anything to do with Brexit maybe
    Well, I could write an essay on that, but no, not entirely. His dishonest position on that subject is one factor, but the main reasons are substance and competence. This crisis has proved most Johnson-sceptic's worst fears were underestimates. I don't like Gove's views on Brexit, but at least the man has shown some competence in the departments he has run. Johnson is a car crash.
    You have your view on Boris and it is shared by many

    However, on covid I will give him the benefit of doubt and had no problem with his speech

    The government are making mistakes and as I have said I reject the freedom of the road granted to the English, it is wrong

    Time will tell and Boris will either win through or not, but he has an 80 seat majority so he has four years if he wants them, and his health holds up which I am not sure is a given, to succeed in taking the country through this crisis

    The tragedy is that we now have one of the worst death rates in the world. It smacks of incompetence from a leadership that is not up to the job. The fact that you wish to give him the benefit of the doubt is probably virtuous, but how bad does it have to be before you might start to think it might happen to have something to do with his poor grasp of detail and general bad leadership?
    Nobody is in a position to state with confidence that the UK has one of the worst death rates (from the virus) in the world. There is not enough (reliable) data.
    Interesting how Boris fans have moved from "we're doing so much better than Italy and Spain" to to "the data can't be trusted" in a few short weeks!
    The UK is still doing better than Italy and Spain on deaths per million
    and what if even the gap with those 2 disappears as it is gradually doing? Will you then finally admit we have about the worst death rate in Europe or will you just be quoting Belgium?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    Helpful and productive attitude from teaching unions...

    https://twitter.com/cyclingkev/status/1260137852396015622?s=19

    More like De-education unions
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    Helpful and productive attitude from teaching unions...

    https://twitter.com/cyclingkev/status/1260137852396015622?s=19

    Best comment I've seen about the schools reopening from a parents whatsapp group.

    'So we're trusting schools to control a pandemic when they can't even control an outbreak of nits.'
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    I suspect that more than a few school teachers share precisely the same attitudes. Indeed, they're probably even more radical, because they've effectively been converted into college lecturers themselves. Lockdown means that all they have to do is set lessons, mark work, and perhaps answer a few questions: all of the tedious slog of dealing with children's tears, temper tantrums, bullying, fighting and all the other disciplinary and pastoral issues has been dumped right back on the parents, and it will stay that way for so long as the children aren't allowed back into the classroom. Why would they want them back at all?
    While it is true that there are some teachers that don't like children, the vast majority care deeply about their charges.

    I do hope this supposed Lecturer is as fake as his self spoofing tirade. If s/he is genuine then I really feel sorry for someone so ill suited to the task of higher education.

    Probably a PE teacher...
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019



    We still won though, didn't we?

    Shows what the public thought of your lot.

    What it showed is that the electoral system is a disgrace, and far too many of the GBP don't give a stuff about war crimes.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Scott_xP said:
    It's okay - @HYUFD has said taxes won't be increased and we'll just keep on borrowing.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489

    Helpful and productive attitude from teaching unions...

    https://twitter.com/cyclingkev/status/1260137852396015622?s=19

    Best comment I've seen about the schools reopening from a parents whatsapp group.

    'So we're trusting schools to control a pandemic when they can't even control an outbreak of nits.'
    Don't speak for all parents.

    I'm desperate for nurseries to reopen and will send my daughter straight back in there.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489

    Helpful and productive attitude from teaching unions...

    https://twitter.com/cyclingkev/status/1260137852396015622?s=19

    More like De-education unions
    No wonder they're called the Blob.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620
    stodge said:

    Scott_xP said:
    We don't really know the true number, though. I suspect it's somewhere between forty and fifty thousand and some of those who have recovered will suffer permanent health problems as a result.

    Speaking to a few colleagues at a team chat this afternoon, those who watched the Hospital Special last night have become strong supporters of a continued lock down.

    For all the statistics that most people under 50 are at little or no risk, it's still your life you're gambling not a tenner from your wallet and even the odds on survival aren't tempting enough for a lot of people to want to take the risk.

    The assumption we'll all come charging out of our homes and spend money like water and queue for hours for our Big Mac fix and a haircut in order to make this a "V" shape recession is going to be challenged.
    People have been queuing for KFC drive throughs.

    Perhaps that is our future.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Socky said:

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I doubt we could trust the rozzers with that power, and anyway how risky really is a car trip?
    If you can guarantee no-one is infected, including asymptotic cases, probably as safe as at home.

    OTOH,

    2 people in a car one infected , 2 m apart , Volume 2 m3 no ventilation , t=30 mins Fresh uncontaminated air at the start

    No masks ID=1078p, t 30 mins (very likely infection)

    Non infected wearing surgical mask ID=177p, t 30 mins (almost 20% chance infectious dose)

    Non infected wearing FFP3 ID=11p, t 30 mins

    For both using surgical mask ID=58p, t 30 mins

    Both using cloth mask ID=396p, t 30 mins (40 % chance of infectious dose)

    Quoted from a recent study
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675
    stodge said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It's okay - @HYUFD has said taxes won't be increased and we'll just keep on borrowing.
    You could cut the DFID budget 20 times over and it still wouldn't cover a £300 billion PSBR.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    edited May 2020

    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    I suspect that more than a few school teachers share precisely the same attitudes. Indeed, they're probably even more radical, because they've effectively been converted into college lecturers themselves. Lockdown means that all they have to do is set lessons, mark work, and perhaps answer a few questions: all of the tedious slog of dealing with children's tears, temper tantrums, bullying, fighting and all the other disciplinary and pastoral issues has been dumped right back on the parents, and it will stay that way for so long as the children aren't allowed back into the classroom. Why would they want them back at all?
    A parent would know that they have to deal with the children's tears, temper tantrums, bullying, fighting and all the other disciplinary and pastoral issues anyway. They're the parents. That's what they do. If they are suddenly thinking 'OMG, why do I have to deal with this?' it's because they are 'bad parents', not that the school isn't stepping up to the plate. The pastoral work has been adapted to fit the current model and it is even more interventionist in fact. For this country at least, if not overseas (internet censorship really does make things difficult. Their is trauma from fear of the situation, sometimes leading to motivation issues, sometimes to harm issues potentially. Our support staff are onto this every day. There are a fewwhose claims to have done the work when they haven't who come to realise just how closely we are monitoring their work across school in a way that has hitherto been little seen. No claims of 'I handed it in' when the online timetable pings up 'missed'. I had an email from a student about work after midnight recently, that gets fed back as there are concerns about overwork too. Then there are the live lessons and tutorials which are a cornerstone of this.

    As for discipline, it reminds me of the recent story about the parent ringing up the school and demanding that they discipline their child down the phone. Some parents try and deny their own responsibility in this area, though I've lost count of the number of parents who are telling us 'now they understand'. That should help the parent/child relationship and it should help when they get back to school as parent and teacher will be in the same page.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    "Government tells Sadiq Khan he must ‘ramp up’ Tube services ‘as quickly as possible’ as commuters warn getting to work is like a ‘suicide mission’ and thousands pack onto trains without masks"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8310459/Tube-suicide-mission-complain-commuters-Thousands-commuters-pack-London-Underground.html
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Starmer is more popular than Johnson at this moment, can he convert it into a election lead

    Lol - can't wait for a "forensic" chat down the pub. Said nobody ever.

    You might choose to chat with a stereotypical Etonian twat at the pub, and maybe find his inability to communicate quirky and amusing, but that doesn't mean that he should be PM. Give me a slightly less amusing professional anytime than a rank amateur who is nothing more than an international laughing stock.
    Name the last "forensic" PM that won an election.

    Gordon Brown was "forensic" off the end of the spectrum - got pumped at the polls.

    Gordon Brown would make The Clown look competent. I always thought we would never see a worse PM than Brown in my lifetime. I was wrong, but this time, this completely unsuitable egocentric entitled twat is wearing a blue rosette. Public opinion will quickly catch up. Even your blinkers might start to fall off after another year of bluster, buffoonery and back-of-a-fag-packet incompetence from no.10. Any Tories with any analytical skill are shit scared of Starmer. He will slowly and surely make the public realise the obvious - Johnson is a charlatan and an incompetent, and a disgrace to the Conservative Party and the office he currently holds.
    Elections won

    Boris 3
    Brown 0

    As for referendums...

    Winning a few beauty contests against very ugly competition doesn't make you competent to run a country. It is one of the weaknesses of our system. Bozo's competition so far has been two washed up has-been lefties. He is no Churchill, no Thatcher. He is an empty chasm of a man that would say anything, do anything so that he can put the PM badge on his boy scout uniform. Eventually the country, with the exception of a few blinkered fanbois will have nothing but contempt for him, and rightly so.
    Go, Nigel!

    When it comes to BJ assessment on here you are the Carly Simon.
    That 'Eventually' is doing a lot of work. Is it going to kick in before or after Boris' second landslide?
    I would love to rule that out but I can't. He does appeal to many. He's the Mantovani of modern British politics.
    Boris will always appeal to the hard Brexit, Leave voting pro WTO terms crowd, for them he can do no wrong.

    Starmer has zero chance of winning them over, he needs to focus instead on uniting Remainers behind him and soft Leavers who would accept staying in the single market and are concerned about the government's Covid response
    But that will be pretty irrelevant if Brexit has faded to be just a background issue of little interest beyond to a few stalwarts. I suspect it will be no more central to a 2024 election campaign than the Iraq War proved to be in 2010.
    Brexit will not fade into the background as we will almost certainly be on WTO terms next year, so unless that is going well it will still be an issue.

    The Iraq War only faded into the background as Brown withdrew UK forces from Iraq and after Blair left office
    I strongly disagree. Starmer will not make a serious attempt to revive the issue, and whilst the LDs might seek to do so , few voters will be interested.
    Iraq was not a central issue even in 2005 - though its aftermath did drive many Labour voters to the LDs.
    It all depends on what you mean by "Brexit". I agree that Labour won't be advocating re-joining, but there will be a big debate about quite where on the spectrum from full participation in the EEA to juche-style autarky the UK should aim to be as a permanent settlement.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601

    Andy_JS said:

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Maybe we should trust the people to do the right thing.
    Bozo tried that. They went on the lash.
    Sorry? The public have surprised the government by complying with the lockdown to a far greater extent than they (the government) were expecting.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    Omnium said:

    Mortimer said:

    This is what the peasant wagons are looking like in Manchester this week.


    No masks?
    I'm in no way convinced that masks will catch on.
    You'd see I'm laughing but the mask hides it.

    Masks are just the new normal now - irrationally. Mask-billionaires will no doubt be on tv soon displaying their wisdom.
    Strong social consequences though.

    Whenever I see someone wearing a mask I think "nob".

    It's socially isolating, dystopian and a bit twattish.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Helpful and productive attitude from teaching unions...

    https://twitter.com/cyclingkev/status/1260137852396015622?s=19

    More like De-education unions
    No wonder they're called the Blob.
    Looking out for the health and safety of their members.

    How very dare they!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Oh dont be so miserable- Driving anywhere is not a cause of transmission . In fact the more you drive the less likely you are to see anyone you know at the end of it so less likely to mix. Lots of misery and judging of others on here tonight.


    With respect that is so naive

    Why do you think North Wales police stop people at the English border

    Given a chance Snowdonia and our beaches will be overwhelmed with day trippers and social distancing goes out of the window.

    The same may well happen across England if we have good weather this weekend
    It is not naive at all. By requiring people living in densely populated English cities to remain there, the Welsh Government is effectively telling people to instead mix far more closely in the very limited recreational space available to them in English public parks than would ever happen in Wales.

    The incidence of CV in Gwynedd is amongst the lowest in the UK. One of the reasons is because there is so much public open space to go around in an area which has a low density of population even in the summer let alone now. At the moment I imagine that I could comply with social distancing on the 4km long stretch of sand between Tywyn and Aberdyfi (by my vacant holiday home) if I was required not to get within 200m of anyone else, never mind 2m. Sharing some of that excess space would reduce the risks to English people forced to remain at home in crowded cities, with no appreciable increase in risk to Welsh residents.

    People should be required to social distance by 2m, and the role of government should be limited to ensuring that they do and requiring facilities to close only where they obviously can't. It's far easier to social distance on a Welsh beach than it is in a Welsh garden centre, but they're content to open the latter and put the former off limits. I detect a streak of nationalist populism in all this, Drakeford having decided that there are votes to be gained by having a go at people living in Birmingham.
    You reference Gwynedd but the problem is far more acute in our part of North Wales and including Snowdonia, which are within less than one hour or two hours from Liverpool and Manchester. Before the police controlled our border we were overwhelmed with visitors both on our beaches and in Snowdonia making social distancing impossible

    The fear for unrestricted driving in England must be for the Lake District, especially as Cumbria is struggling with covid, but also the Peak district, the West Country and myriads of English beaches.

    Drakeford has been and is a disaster for Wales and the sooner he is gone, hopefully in Spring 2021, the better Wales will be
    The answer to that is not to ban all visitors whereever they are going but to limit access to or if necessary close the very specific areas where visitors are congregating in extremely dense concentrations so that they disperse more widely. Not all beaches will be grossly overcrowded, it'll just be the ones in the middle of resorts. If it can't be avoided, close those beaches only. Close the car parking close by those beaches. Close specific visitor attractions. But don't close the whole of Wales.

    There is plenty enough space in Wales to go around so don't restrict access to all of it.

    And the point is that all this is relative, the recreational space in cities is very limited, and the overcrowding in cities is likely to be far worse if you coop everyone up there.

    If the Welsh Tourist Board run a campaign in 2021 claiming that Wales is welcoming to English visitors, they'll be laughed at.

    PS. I referenced Gwynedd because you mentioned Snowdonia.
    I have no problem with that, Drakeford does and we are closed to tourists

    And my home town of Llandudno is hit the hardest in North Wales

    I expect many in Wales will look on in envy of the English
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,675

    Helpful and productive attitude from teaching unions...

    https://twitter.com/cyclingkev/status/1260137852396015622?s=19

    Best comment I've seen about the schools reopening from a parents whatsapp group.

    'So we're trusting schools to control a pandemic when they can't even control an outbreak of nits.'
    Don't speak for all parents.

    I'm desperate for nurseries to reopen and will send my daughter straight back in there.
    I'm not, I know that I'm in a rare group that sees his kids living with their grandparents, one of whom has to shield.

    My youngest had a bit of a emotional moment last week, the school organised a video call for his class and the teachers, which he loved, but afterwards he in a bits because he missed all his friends, but he told me not to worry because he can do this (lockdown) for his grandparents.

    He's six, he shouldn't have to worry about things like this at his age.

    Even for those of us who are doing ok with lockdown, it's going to have a huge impact on our children.

    Lord knows the impact on those kids who were meant to be taking their exams this year are going through.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,620

    Omnium said:

    Mortimer said:

    This is what the peasant wagons are looking like in Manchester this week.


    No masks?
    I'm in no way convinced that masks will catch on.
    You'd see I'm laughing but the mask hides it.

    Masks are just the new normal now - irrationally. Mask-billionaires will no doubt be on tv soon displaying their wisdom.
    Strong social consequences though.

    Whenever I see someone wearing a mask I think "nob".

    It's socially isolating, dystopian and a bit twattish.
    When did you see Eadric ?

    :wink:
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Maybe we should trust the people to do the right thing.
    Bozo tried that. They went on the lash.
    Sorry? The public have surprised the government by complying with the lockdown to a far greater extent than they (the government) were expecting.
    I think the idea there's mass irresponsibility is a myth.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    MattW said:

    Have we yet seen any comments from sensible Trade Union leaders?

    I've seen the stuff from Mary Bousted (previously NUT heavily influenced by SWP for many years), and presumably FBU, UCU etc incoming, and McCluskey who bought Corbyn's Labour, and the boss of the TUC saying exactly what she has always said (big government, micromanagement, everything proceduralised to the nth, and more money for my members).

    Titter... when free money's possible, the government hasn't a leg to stand on.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,102

    So if a family member puts their house on the market can you go to visit them by arranging a viewing?

    No viewings at present as far as I am aware
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649

    Andy_JS said:

    "I’m a Senior Lecturer at a UK higher education institution currently stuck doing remote working amongst a group of typical identitarian, fair-trade, falafel-munching academics. It probably won’t surprise you to learn that my colleagues really don’t want this magic-money-tree-fuelled piss-about to end. They chirrup along quite happily to each other on Microsoft Teams about how it might bring down the “Tory Scum” Government and thus also cancel “racist Brexit”. Part of the ongoing appeal of the lockdown for them is the opportunity to spend all day safe at home baking Nordic-inspired loaf cakes, knocking out virtue-signalling blogs about sustainable living (whilst simultaneously planning their next foreign holiday, of course) and angrily taking to social media to demand more white deaths from COVID-19 as a form of reparation for colonial injustices. Okay, I might have made that last one up, but you get the idea. This has become a middle-class wet dream of what the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism would look like."

    https://lockdownsceptics.org

    What a load of utter bollocks.

    I know quite a few academics and they are shitting themselves, most of them are expecting to be out of a job soon as the revenue from foreign students will dry up.

    Prof O'Hara talked about something similar yesterday.

    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1259883763212922880
    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1259884284862742530
    https://twitter.com/gsoh31/status/1259884812585795584
    Exactly, maybe the state system less so but, even there, there will be cutbacks to come. We've heard some rumbles about a hybrid model, taking the best of what we are doing now and allying it what was best practice in other areas previously. That may mean downsizing, a two tier workforce (mainly home/mainly school), maybe sharing with other schools online so that provision can be maintained for all subjects. It will be an exciting time in education. I was moving out of my current role soon but I can see where I might be tempted to continue in another way. Then again, experience costs, so the oldies might be shunted off anyway.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    stodge said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It's okay - @HYUFD has said taxes won't be increased and we'll just keep on borrowing.
    They haven't done it yet. We'll see how the plans stand up when actually proposed. I'll assume they'll be content to do very token things on the basis they cannot afford to do more than make a dent anyway.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    stodge said:

    Scott_xP said:
    It's okay - @HYUFD has said taxes won't be increased and we'll just keep on borrowing.
    5p on income tax just to pay for Sunak’s extra borrowing? Gulp.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489

    Omnium said:

    Mortimer said:

    This is what the peasant wagons are looking like in Manchester this week.


    No masks?
    I'm in no way convinced that masks will catch on.
    You'd see I'm laughing but the mask hides it.

    Masks are just the new normal now - irrationally. Mask-billionaires will no doubt be on tv soon displaying their wisdom.
    Strong social consequences though.

    Whenever I see someone wearing a mask I think "nob".

    It's socially isolating, dystopian and a bit twattish.
    When did you see Eadric ?

    :wink:
    Don't get me wrong: I'd probably wear one myself on the tube.

    But I wouldn't anywear else. They are twattish.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Asian and American students will pay tens of thousands for a university education. Europeans will pay a few thousand, and yes the UK is still in Europe. Which societies will win?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,489

    Helpful and productive attitude from teaching unions...

    https://twitter.com/cyclingkev/status/1260137852396015622?s=19

    More like De-education unions
    No wonder they're called the Blob.
    Looking out for the health and safety of their members.

    How very dare they!
    Nah. Risk is utterly minimal.

    Brain-dead unions flexing their muscle at the expense of the kids for their usual political bullshit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Helpful and productive attitude from teaching unions...

    https://twitter.com/cyclingkev/status/1260137852396015622?s=19

    They are meeting tommorow, so not exactly holding things up. A clear set of health and safety conditions to make a return possible would seem a very sensible first step.

    Unions are generally very good at Health and Safety. An employer who pressed workers into working in unsafe conditions would surely be quite vulnerable to the legal eagles. Some potentially very expensive suits.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Maybe we should trust the people to do the right thing.
    Bozo tried that. They went on the lash.
    Sorry? The public have surprised the government by complying with the lockdown to a far greater extent than they (the government) were expecting.
    Pre lockdown. When the government tried to suggest what people should do. It failed. They went to the pub. They went to the Dales. They went to the coast.

    Too many of our fellow citizens will only listen when someone is about to whack them with a big stick.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    So if a family member puts their house on the market can you go to visit them by arranging a viewing?

    No viewings at present as far as I am aware
    From tomorrow in England.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    Golf courses fully booked for days in advance of opening tomorrow. People just want to get out now . Boris doing better than authoritarians in the other home nations
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    EPG said:

    Asian and American students will pay tens of thousands for a university education. Europeans will pay a few thousand, and yes the UK is still in Europe. Which societies will win?

    Though US student debt is the next sub prime...
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    MattW said:

    Have we yet seen any comments from sensible Trade Union leaders?

    I've seen the stuff from Mary Bousted (previously NUT heavily influenced by SWP for many years), and presumably FBU, UCU etc incoming, and McCluskey who bought Corbyn's Labour, and the boss of the TUC saying exactly what she has always said (big government, micromanagement, everything proceduralised to the nth, and more money for my members).

    From Voice - the very unmilitant teacher's union.

    https://www.voicetheunion.org.uk/news-media-issues/voice-comments-government-guidance-wider-opening-education-and-childcare-settings

    "“While the ‘Roadmap’ does have clear logic and science behind it, the lack of detail in the strategy leaves members deeply worried.

    "The health, safety, and wellbeing of all children and staff in schools, colleges and nurseries must be paramount.

    "It is also essential that a reliable test, track and trace system is in place before schools and nurseries can accept more pupils and children.

    "Success of this strategy requires teachers, support staff, early education and childcare workers, and parents to be confident that they and all pupils will be safe. It is therefore essential that there is transparency about the scientific and medical evidence on which the decisions and guidance are based and that they are clearly and quickly communicated.

    "Although we appreciate the logic of the recently published guidance, we have a number of concerns about the practicalities, and how some aspects can be achieved.

    "The aspiration that all primary children will have a month of education before the end of this academic year is, we believe, unrealistic, and reduces the phase period to three weeks. It also increases the planning burden on schools and staff, increasing their already demanding and large workload."

    These are not pinko lefties. Used to be called PAT (Professional Association of Teachers)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    My concern as of today is this coming weekend.

    Whoever in government thinks it is a good idea to open up driving in England to anywhere else in England and in particular the beaches and parks including the Lake district is making a huge error

    Travel should have been within a set limit, maybe 10 miles, and this policy is just wrong

    I expect their ratings to sink futher if I am right and this is another self inflicted own goal like Hancock's 100, 000 tests

    Maybe we should trust the people to do the right thing.
    Bozo tried that. They went on the lash.
    Sorry? The public have surprised the government by complying with the lockdown to a far greater extent than they (the government) were expecting.
    I think the idea there's mass irresponsibility is a myth.
    18% are breaking the rules according to this evening's press briefing.
This discussion has been closed.