Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Alastair suffers from anxiety which often results in intolerance to other views
He has been poisoned by brexit and seems to console himself with outrageous accusations
I doubt you will ever see him having the grace to make an apology
Thanks for the clarification BGNW.
Sad
I have saw some bollox on here but the posts this morning take the biscuit, you two need to stop and think about the rubbish you are posting, mawkish mince.
Meanwhile we should stay alert to something that isn’t visible.
This is the kind of stupid remark I despair of. Just because a virus is invisible why does that preclude alertness? We pretty-much know how the virus spreads so engage your brain and take sensible precautions.
And Boris could hardly read out a 60-page document on television, could he? This is complex and nuanced and there will be all sorts of difficult questions to navigate.
I'm tempted to suggest you grow up. Oh I just did.
He needs to get on with the day job and stop imagining he has arisen as Churchill, my only shock last night was he did not say "We shall fight Covid on the beaches, we shall fight Covid on the landing grounds, we shall fight Covid in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight Covid in the hills; we shall never surrender". All he managed to do is cause total confusion.
@RobD Rob, I have to apologise re my post last night, I forgot I was actually out last week, had to drive my wife to hospital for x-ray. Just sat outside in car mind you.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Alastair suffers from anxiety which often results in intolerance to other views
He has been poisoned by brexit and seems to console himself with outrageous accusations
I doubt you will ever see him having the grace to make an apology
Thanks for the clarification BGNW.
Sad
I have saw some bollox on here but the posts this morning take the biscuit, you two need to stop and think about the rubbish you are posting, mawkish mince.
I do think people are asking the impossible here. Stay alert is indeed not as clear as stay home in specific practical terms even though in general terms we can all figure out it means being careful and so on. So critique is reasonable and we do need further information.
But now it's being criticised because of there being more detailed information when by its nature it's a more complex message than stay home. Please tell me a three word phrase which will encapsulate all the variables and scenarios of a relaxed lockdown. I hope there is a summary graphic or something which displays the key points, but detailed guidance so that public bodies can sing from the same hymn sheet is what they want. Are we actually saying that when they asked for clarification they should not receive it because it's too long?
I'd say the tone of the government communication will be key in getting a mrssage across more than the specific words of the slogan, but I wouldn't want mr Meeks for one to get upset.
The airport test is interesting. Any details on that?
Was on telly last night, you give blood and it is sent to Lab, you get result in 2 hours, if clear you avoid 14 day quarantine, costs 200 Euros. Certainly cheaper than 14 days in a hotel room.
What Johnson’s speech clearly signalled was the winding down of the furlough scheme. We are six weeks away from a lot of businesses having to take some very serious decisions. Many people may soon be experiencing a sharp decline in income. That will have very serious economic and political implications.
Makes sense that that would be the moment a lot of support for the government evaporates too. Comparitive international data will be much further advanced in how bad certain countries have been, and the consequences of preventative action will have started to bite much more widely.
I think Boris is pond scum, but I think the message that finally got out last night was fine. Just fine.
There’s a lot of mischief-making by various enemies in the press.
The preceding week was a comms fiasco, though, and the govt still faces serious questions into why we have suffered possibly the worst outbreak in Europe.
Generally, the govt appear to be making it up as they go along, and treating the public like cretins, but last night was Ok as far as it goes..
And when the others begin relaxations they'll have failed too? Thst appears to be the implication from criticising the change of slogan signalling a new phase.
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
I’m not going to apologise to anyone who can so casually dismiss the avoidable deaths of thousands of people. You need an urgent overhaul of your moral compass.
That says a huge amount about you as a person.
I more than probably anyone alive on this forum know death up close and personal. And I don't take the deaths casually at all. I have been heavily critical of the Government's early sloppiness.
However, we cannot sit in our houses for the rest of our lives. The damage to the nation's mental, social, domestic, economic and physical wellbeing is incalculable. We have to get out there and suck this up, taking as many precautions as possible (Staying Alert) and watching that R number. But this is life and death is part of it. We can't wish away the virus. It's there. Life has changed and we have to learn to assimilate it in our daily lives whilst we await a vaccine or cure, which could take a long time.
You're stuck in a rut, Alastair. And there's an awful lot of shit at the bottom.
I do worry about those who think extra 10,000s a death are somehow ok. That somehow we should plough through this and take the additional death on the chin. If you are advocating additional deaths, it is a perfectly valid question to ask who are you prepared to lose?
Yes, this is serious. Yes the government did not create the virus. Whilst we struggle to negotiate a catch 22, if we lived just a few hundred miles away in Germany, somehow it appears we would be better off thee past few weeks. Other places are far better off. It is perfectly valid to ask why and whether we need to be in a catch 22 at all.
Yes, hopefully one good thing to come out of all this is that treating a healthcare model as if it were a religion doesn’t result in the best outcomes. It’s becoming clear what clothes the emperor NHS is wearing.
I didn't become an overnight epidemiologist, I already told you I was asleep. But seriously, if you know what stay alert means in the current context, and how it helps me to keep my family safe right now, I am all ears. How many more thousands of people have to die in this country before the Boris-felaters on this site admit that their man is just another useless public school chancer, promoted way beyond his ability and completely out of his depth?
I'm seeing claims that the "Stay Alert" message is part of a pivot away from government-led collective action against the virus to government-advised personal responsibility, to absolve HMG of blame for continuing fatalities?
It doesn't feel that way to me, but I'm interested in what other people think. Am I missing something?
Nope , I think you are correct, Bozo is for hiding behind the sofa and just saying it was the plebs fault they got themselves killed.
Malc.... just fuck.off for a while till your sense of reason returns.
Good Morning to you too, another pleasant sunny day ahead.
I'm seeing claims that the "Stay Alert" message is part of a pivot away from government-led collective action against the virus to government-advised personal responsibility, to absolve HMG of blame for continuing fatalities?
It doesn't feel that way to me, but I'm interested in what other people think. Am I missing something?
Nope , I think you are correct, Bozo is for hiding behind the sofa and just saying it was the plebs fault they got themselves killed.
Malc.... just fuck.off for a while till your sense of reason returns.
Good Morning to you too, another pleasant sunny day ahead.
I do think people are asking the impossible here. Stay alert is indeed not as clear as stay home in specific practical terms even though in general terms we can all figure out it means being careful and so on. So critique is reasonable and we do need further information.
But now it's being criticised because of there being more detailed information when by its nature it's a more complex message than stay home. Please tell me a three word phrase which will encapsulate all the variables and scenarios of a relaxed lockdown. I hope there is a summary graphic or something which displays the key points, but detailed guidance so that public bodies can sing from the same hymn sheet is what they want. Are we actually saying that when they asked for clarification they should not receive it because it's too long?
I'd say the tone of the government communication will be key in getting a mrssage across more than the specific words of the slogan, but I wouldn't want mr Meeks for one to get upset.
60 pages of detail is great! (Not the read the specific contents so not commenting on the specifics, but we (i.e the country especially businesses and organisations) need detail not slogans of disjointed words)
Look, they had a terrible first half. They went 5-0 after a piss poor performance. Yes, Boris was careless, sloppy, ill-briefed, ill-prepared and, well, just ill.
But do any of you really think Jeremy Corbyn would have been better? Would you have wanted lockdown under Herr Gove? Or IDS?
I don't see how anyone could accuse Boris last night of not taking this seriously. He tried to educate the nation on the nuances of this virus and how to get us back into life again. So nuanced that the last person you need in the mix is that prize prick Piers Morgan. This is complex. Really, really, really complex.
We need to get back but we have to stay alert. Watching that R number will be critical. There will be tweaks to policy and it won't be an easy ride. Some people are going to die (sorry Nicola).
Boris was okay. The detail will hopefully flesh it out today.
Otherwise, I think we're blaming Boris because he's an easy fall guy.
He’s being blamed because he was careless, sloppy and ill-briefed. As you acknowledge he was. In fact, he hasn’t been blamed nearly enough.
If your best defence of him is that other public figures would also have been woefully poor, that’s not a good defence.
It should not be acceptable or defensible for tens of thousands to die avoidably because the government was far too casual about a pandemic.
No my defence of him is that you should stop judging him (from your armchair) on the first half performance.
Since around mid-April the Government have performed pretty well.
Shit happens, Alastair. Sometimes people die. The Gov't with public support have responded and we're now in a position to begin getting back to some sort of life. It won't be easy but I find it pretty distasteful when Labour party supporters sit on the touchline waiting to pounce instead of rolling up their sleeves and getting stuck in.
Terribly sorry about the death of your loved ones, LOL. Still, never mind, eh?
If you knew how much death I've witnessed you'd apologise for that dick-ish remark.
I know it up close and very personal so I don't take it lightly.
But we have to get on and get out there.
Are you going to be big enough to say sorry, Alastair?
Anonymous people on the internet asking for apologies because someone doesn't take their completely unverifiable & unconvincing back story seriously is one of my favourite things.
TL;DR version: they test fired a missile at a target before the ship that towed it into position could get out of the way and hit her instead. The Iranian military are describing this as a “collision”.
I think Katya Adler really hit the nail on the head last night. Governments have generally had support during Phase 1 Lockdown. However, once they begin to relax things and people feel confused, even over the bleedin' obvious messages like 'stay alert,' then support slides away.
We enter greater uncertainty and the Government can't provide people with all the reassurance they need. Their basic need of security is threatened.
Even more so when the money stops flowing. Welcome news that the furlough scheme is extending until September, but it's only at a reduced rate.
Comments
All he managed to do is cause total confusion.
Rob, I have to apologise re my post last night, I forgot I was actually out last week, had to drive my wife to hospital for x-ray. Just sat outside in car mind you.
I do think people are asking the impossible here. Stay alert is indeed not as clear as stay home in specific practical terms even though in general terms we can all figure out it means being careful and so on. So critique is reasonable and we do need further information.
But now it's being criticised because of there being more detailed information when by its nature it's a more complex message than stay home. Please tell me a three word phrase which will encapsulate all the variables and scenarios of a relaxed lockdown. I hope there is a summary graphic or something which displays the key points, but detailed guidance so that public bodies can sing from the same hymn sheet is what they want. Are we actually saying that when they asked for clarification they should not receive it because it's too long?
I'd say the tone of the government communication will be key in getting a mrssage across more than the specific words of the slogan, but I wouldn't want mr Meeks for one to get upset.
There’s a lot of mischief-making by various enemies in the press.
The preceding week was a comms fiasco, though, and the govt still faces serious questions into why we have suffered possibly the worst outbreak in Europe.
Generally, the govt appear to be making it up as they go along, and treating the public like cretins, but last night was Ok as far as it goes..
'Stay at home' is clear and easy to describe concisely. 'Everything's fine' is the same.
In between is necessarily more complicated.
The process of getting back to normal (we can argue about the timing being right or wrong) can't be as clear-cut as those two positions.
Given the choice between blaming an Evil Tory or the divinely-ordained NHS, very few will choose the latter.
[The Government does deserve some criticism. But the veneration of a health service is bloody weird and the clapping is cultish nonsense].
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52472879