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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mawkish nursery games. It’s time to leave the Second World War

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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    BBC News covers the new app. Wastes most of the report with vox pops of people saying they will use it because it might save lives.

    Tiny mention of privacy issues. No analysis of those issues or the letter from dozens of computer scientists warning of the centralised system. No analysis either of the way UK is going down a different road to say Germany. No discussion of The Registers complete take down of the issue of the app not being on most of the time.

    Etc etc etc.

    This is a rare occassion where the vox pops are relevant though.

    The app will work [if it works technically which seems highly probably] if people are willing to download it.

    The concerns the computer scientists have about a centralised system, the different road etc are all moot in that case. What matters is (a) does it work - which the Isle of Wight test will reveal and (b) will people install it?

    Short of an opinion poll the vox pops addresses point (b). Its actually relevant for once.
    You lost me at the highly probably bit - nothing I have seen today tells me that it's going to work. And speaking to a mate at NHSX I suspect it doesn't.

    However it will provide a nice comfort blanket for people..
    Given the wide publicity to the supposed very basic flaw and the fact those involved with the project are still confidently saying it will work that implies to me they have checked this and have reason to be confident it is working. It would take nothing to test this and there's no lack of awareness of the supposed issue.

    There may be more complicated bugs but it seems hard to believe the project has reached this stage, with this commensurate level of publicity, without something so basic that has repeatedly been discussed being tested.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Foxy said:

    Surely "Blitz Spirit" "Our Finest Hour" and even the 1943 Bengal Famine are all beside the point. The 75th Anniversary of all of those are fading into history. This weekend marks a different event, the 75th anniversary of Victory in Europe.

    It was not us standing alone (not that we were in 1940 either with our worldwide empire), VE day came about because of our alliance particularly with the USA and USSR, and of these it was the Red Army under Marshal Zhukov who "got WW2 done".

    I shall raise a silent toast to our veterans, but also to our allies veterans on Friday. We are at our best when we coordinate our efforts with international friends and allies. This is a day to remember the end of the evils of Nazism, and the beginning of the post war world. Between VE and VJ day we changed government, with a landslide victory for Attlee. It was the end of Churchillism*, not its apogee.

    *Yes, I know, he stayed on as LOTO, and returned briefly for an undistinguished second government in 1951.

    There is an irony in the Daily Mail/Johnson style VE Day glorification when the mood at the actual VE Day was, thank God the miserable affair was over with and we can get on with our lives.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    kyf_100 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kyf_100 said:

    When we stood alone in WWII, it was our finest hour as a nation.

    It is part of our national character, etched on our psyche, one of defiance, resiliance - it is a history to be proud of.

    It's a myth. We were an empire.
    The speech recognises that
    And kyf_100's comment doesn't.
    Yawn. Pathetic.

    If I'd said "the finest hour in our empire's history" you would have accused me of being a fascist, racist, imperialist for mere mention of the word "empire".

    I used the words part of our national character because that is what it is.

    I think your problem is that you think it's disgusting to be proud of your country so you want to use semantics to justify your hatred. Fair enough, but that's hardly my problem.
    Empires are by definition undemocratic.
    Not sure that tracks completely. You could say that about kingdoms, yet many kingdoms are in all ways that matter democratic. Not that I think historical examples of empires have been democratic, and in most ways of defining what an empire is being undemocratic is almost certainly a big part of it. But take the first line of the wikipedia definition 'An empire is a multi-ethnic or multinational state with political and/or military dominion of populations who are culturally and ethnically distinct from the imperial (ruling) ethnic group and its culture'. It's unlikely, but if it was political domination alone that could theoretically be democratic. Other definitions are less ambiguous, but them empire is a very varied term and many have little in common with one another.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited May 2020
    /
    TGOHF666 said:
    Zarah Sultana MP for Coventry South, is the celebrity guest at their Zoom quiz on Friday
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Surely "Blitz Spirit" "Our Finest Hour" and even the 1943 Bengal Famine are all beside the point. The 75th Anniversary of all of those are fading into history. This weekend marks a different event, the 75th anniversary of Victory in Europe.

    It was not us standing alone (not that we were in 1940 either with our worldwide empire), VE day came about because of our alliance particularly with the USA and USSR, and of these it was the Red Army under Marshal Zhukov who "got WW2 done".

    I shall raise a silent toast to our veterans, but also to our allies veterans on Friday. We are at our best when we coordinate our efforts with international friends and allies. This is a day to remember the end of the evils of Nazism, and the beginning of the post war world. Between VE and VJ day we changed government, with a landslide victory for Attlee. It was the end of Churchillism*, not its apogee.

    *Yes, I know, he stayed on as LOTO, and returned briefly for an undistinguished second government in 1951.

    There is an irony in the Daily Mail/Johnson style VE Day glorification when the mood at the actual VE Day was, thank God the miserable affair was over with and we can get on with our lives.
    Wasn't there a huge celebration on the day?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_in_Europe_Day#/media/File:Churchill_waves_to_crowds.jpg
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708

    Wonder how Telegraph found out about Prof Bonkdown...and wonder how long they have known?

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1257791975740276737
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    edited May 2020
    Foxy said:

    Surely "Blitz Spirit" "Our Finest Hour" and even the 1943 Bengal Famine are all beside the point. The 75th Anniversary of all of those are fading into history. This weekend marks a different event, the 75th anniversary of Victory in Europe.

    It was not us standing alone (not that we were in 1940 either with our worldwide empire), VE day came about because of our alliance particularly with the USA and USSR, and of these it was the Red Army under Marshal Zhukov who "got WW2 done".

    I shall raise a silent toast to our veterans, but also to our allies veterans on Friday. We are at our best when we coordinate our efforts with international friends and allies. This is a day to remember the end of the evils of Nazism, and the beginning of the post war world. Between VE and VJ day we changed government, with a landslide victory for Attlee. It was the end of Churchillism*, not its apogee.

    *Yes, I know, he stayed on as LOTO, and returned briefly for an undistinguished second government in 1951.

    Re second para, I believe we and France were actually the only two nations to declare war on Nazi Germany. Not for a moment suggesting the others were dragged into it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139
    TGOHF666 said:
    Fortunately some patriotism is returning to Labour now Corbyn has been beaten
    https://twitter.com/GwynneMP/status/1256558809285345280?s=19
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    isam said:


    https://ilcuk.org.uk/introducing-dementia-care-in-eastern-europe/

    TGOHF666 said:
    Zarah Sultana MP for Coventry South, is the celebrity guest at their Zoom quiz on Friday
    Will there be chicken suppers ?

    Yer man Bastani giving solidarity.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    It's OK to break lockdown in the privacy of your own home??? Expect Plod to take a very, very dim view of your, er, interpretation of lockdown.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Fortunately some patriotism is returning to Labour now Corbyn has been beaten
    https://twitter.com/GwynneMP/status/1256558809285345280?s=19
    Well done Bobby in what was a gutsy attempt to kick the Brits out of Northern Ireland.

    Note. Britain, we, are still here, but fair play for trying.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,563
    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Surely "Blitz Spirit" "Our Finest Hour" and even the 1943 Bengal Famine are all beside the point. The 75th Anniversary of all of those are fading into history. This weekend marks a different event, the 75th anniversary of Victory in Europe.

    It was not us standing alone (not that we were in 1940 either with our worldwide empire), VE day came about because of our alliance particularly with the USA and USSR, and of these it was the Red Army under Marshal Zhukov who "got WW2 done".

    I shall raise a silent toast to our veterans, but also to our allies veterans on Friday. We are at our best when we coordinate our efforts with international friends and allies. This is a day to remember the end of the evils of Nazism, and the beginning of the post war world. Between VE and VJ day we changed government, with a landslide victory for Attlee. It was the end of Churchillism*, not its apogee.

    *Yes, I know, he stayed on as LOTO, and returned briefly for an undistinguished second government in 1951.

    There is an irony in the Daily Mail/Johnson style VE Day glorification when the mood at the actual VE Day was, thank God the miserable affair was over with and we can get on with our lives.
    That is complete rubbish. There were massive celebrations. The sense of relief was huge. God knows where you get your ideas from.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    isam said:
    No wonder the cat woman is supporting her.

    Millionaire socialist FBPE luvvies got to stick together.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Good Lord, the man had a long history of poor judgement. What have we done?!

    https://twitter.com/jamesheartfield/status/1257765833759166467?s=21
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482
    edited May 2020

    On topic: Alastair is half right. We should remember, and reflect on, the enduring lessons of WWII, the defining event of the modern era. But he's right that the hijacking of it by ignoramuses like Mark Francois should be treated with contempt.

    More generally, I find the indignation by some at the metaphor of 'waging war' against the virus to be totally bizarre. It's actually rather a good metaphor, in that the battle [another metaphor] involves the total mobilisation [another] of society, and especially of frontline [there I go again..] workers to defeat [and again..] it.

    I don't recall indignant Guardian articles complaining about War on Want or Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty - a theme taken up by Gordon Brown.

    It's a metaphor. We're grown-ups who can handle that sort of stuff, right?

    Except everything we wage our wars on seems to get worse. See 'terror' and 'drugs'.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    TGOHF666 said:

    isam said:
    No wonder the cat woman is supporting her.

    Millionaire socialist FBPE luvvies got to stick together.
    #stayhomesharewives

    A real LOL moment
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    If the NHS app became available in the Isle of Wight today, why hasn't a tech journalist gone down there to demonstrate that it simply doesn't work?
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Surely "Blitz Spirit" "Our Finest Hour" and even the 1943 Bengal Famine are all beside the point. The 75th Anniversary of all of those are fading into history. This weekend marks a different event, the 75th anniversary of Victory in Europe.

    It was not us standing alone (not that we were in 1940 either with our worldwide empire), VE day came about because of our alliance particularly with the USA and USSR, and of these it was the Red Army under Marshal Zhukov who "got WW2 done".

    I shall raise a silent toast to our veterans, but also to our allies veterans on Friday. We are at our best when we coordinate our efforts with international friends and allies. This is a day to remember the end of the evils of Nazism, and the beginning of the post war world. Between VE and VJ day we changed government, with a landslide victory for Attlee. It was the end of Churchillism*, not its apogee.

    *Yes, I know, he stayed on as LOTO, and returned briefly for an undistinguished second government in 1951.

    There is an irony in the Daily Mail/Johnson style VE Day glorification when the mood at the actual VE Day was, thank God the miserable affair was over with and we can get on with our lives.
    Wasn't there a huge celebration on the day?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_in_Europe_Day#/media/File:Churchill_waves_to_crowds.jpg
    There is some wonderful footage of it in: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b019c85h/timeshift-series-11-11-the-rules-of-drinking
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    What is it with all these quips about gay televangelists tonight? Oh wait, my God is @TheScreamingEagles Toby Young? Or just a case of great minds think alike? 😊

    https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1257765799714054146?s=21
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    Foxy said:



    It was not us standing alone (not that we were in 1940 either with our worldwide empire), VE day came about because of our alliance particularly with the USA and USSR, and of these it was the Red Army under Marshal Zhukov who "got WW2 done".

    Even in 1940, the Greeks were on our side.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    On topic: Alastair is half right. We should remember, and reflect on, the enduring lessons of WWII, the defining event of the modern era. But he's right that the hijacking of it by ignoramuses like Mark Francois should be treated with contempt.

    More generally, I find the indignation by some at the metaphor of 'waging war' against the virus to be totally bizarre. It's actually rather a good metaphor, in that the battle [another metaphor] involves the total mobilisation [another] of society, and especially of frontline [there I go again..] workers to defeat [and again..] it.

    I don't recall indignant Guardian articles complaining about War on Want or Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty - a theme taken up by Gordon Brown.

    It's a metaphor. We're grown-ups who can handle that sort of stuff, right?

    People got a bit wobbly during the War on Terror. Although frankly, a couple of deacdes on and it has won no victories over my terror of big spiders....
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited May 2020

    On topic: Alastair is half right. We should remember, and reflect on, the enduring lessons of WWII, the defining event of the modern era. But he's right that the hijacking of it by ignoramuses like Mark Francois should be treated with contempt.

    More generally, I find the indignation by some at the metaphor of 'waging war' against the virus to be totally bizarre. It's actually rather a good metaphor, in that the battle [another metaphor] involves the total mobilisation [another] of society, and especially of frontline [there I go again..] workers to defeat [and again..] it.

    I don't recall indignant Guardian articles complaining about War on Want or Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty - a theme taken up by Gordon Brown.

    It's a metaphor. We're grown-ups who can handle that sort of stuff, right?

    It's not a useful metaphor because managing the epidemic requires discipline and the highest standards of hygiene. Wrestling with a virus is the last thing you want to do.

    War on Want, War on Poverty and War on Drugs aren't helpful metaphors either.

    Topical point about War on Poverty. We don't need a fight; we need more affordable accommodation. I note with cynicism that the intractable problem of accommodating the homeless was solved the instant those homeless people threatened to infect the rest of us,
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    Yokes said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Fortunately some patriotism is returning to Labour now Corbyn has been beaten
    https://twitter.com/GwynneMP/status/1256558809285345280?s=19
    Well done Bobby in what was a gutsy attempt to kick the Brits out of Northern Ireland.

    Note. Britain, we, are still here, but fair play for trying.
    Only 8 Unionist MPs out of 18 available seats elected in 2019...
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    FF43 said:

    It's not a useful metaphor because managing the epidemic requires discipline and the highest standards of hygiene. Wrestling with a virus is the last thing you want to do

    Requiring discipline is exactly the point, surely?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    isam said:

    Good Lord, the man had a long history of poor judgement. What have we done?!

    https://twitter.com/jamesheartfield/status/1257765833759166467?s=21

    Boris let a hardcore Remainer decide to lock us down. At least he can’t be accused of being surrounded by yes men anymore!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878

    On topic: Alastair is half right. We should remember, and reflect on, the enduring lessons of WWII, the defining event of the modern era. But he's right that the hijacking of it by ignoramuses like Mark Francois should be treated with contempt.

    More generally, I find the indignation by some at the metaphor of 'waging war' against the virus to be totally bizarre. It's actually rather a good metaphor, in that the battle [another metaphor] involves the total mobilisation [another] of society, and especially of frontline [there I go again..] workers to defeat [and again..] it.

    I don't recall indignant Guardian articles complaining about War on Want or Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty - a theme taken up by Gordon Brown.

    It's a metaphor. We're grown-ups who can handle that sort of stuff, right?

    People got a bit wobbly during the War on Terror. Although frankly, a couple of deacdes on and it has won no victories over my terror of big spiders....
    Iraq-nophobia?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Wonder why they’ve thrown Ferguson under the bus now.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Jonathan said:

    Wonder why they’ve thrown Ferguson under the bus now.

    He seems to have thrown himself under it.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    It's not a useful metaphor because managing the epidemic requires discipline and the highest standards of hygiene. Wrestling with a virus is the last thing you want to do

    Requiring discipline is exactly the point, surely?
    So does ballet dancing. That's not a war is it?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Jonathan said:

    Wonder why they’ve thrown Ferguson under the bus now.

    The press?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    edited May 2020

    Jonathan said:

    Wonder why they’ve thrown Ferguson under the bus now.

    He seems to have thrown himself under it.
    Yeah right. 🤷‍♂️ You might very well think that, I couldn’t possibly comment.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Am I the only one who couldn’t give a lockdown fuck about Professor Pantsdown and the blonde?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    It's not a useful metaphor because managing the epidemic requires discipline and the highest standards of hygiene. Wrestling with a virus is the last thing you want to do

    Requiring discipline is exactly the point, surely?
    So does ballet dancing. That's not a war is it?
    No, because it doesn't require mass discipline.

    Really, this is the silliest of complaints. The English language is absolutely stuffed to the gunwales [sorry, can't help myself] with examples of military metaphors. So what?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    RobD said:

    If the NHS app became available in the Isle of Wight today, why hasn't a tech journalist gone down there to demonstrate that it simply doesn't work?

    Journalists are under lockdown?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    isam said:

    Good Lord, the man had a long history of poor judgement. What have we done?!

    https://twitter.com/jamesheartfield/status/1257765833759166467?s=21

    That can't be right. I thought only Brexiteer Tories were allowed on SAGE....
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    Am I the only one who couldn’t give a lockdown fuck about Professor Pantsdown and the blonde?

    All it really shows is that it's human nature. You can't keep people under house arrest indefintely and expect them to give up on the things that make life good.

    For some that means a pint with their mates, for others it means hugging their grandchildren again. For the prof it meant getting his end away.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    Yokes said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Fortunately some patriotism is returning to Labour now Corbyn has been beaten
    https://twitter.com/GwynneMP/status/1256558809285345280?s=19
    Well done Bobby in what was a gutsy attempt to kick the Brits out of Northern Ireland.

    Note. Britain, we, are still here, but fair play for trying.
    Only 8 Unionist MPs out of 18 available seats elected in 2019...
    52% of Northern Irish voters want to stay part of the UK, just 29% want a United Ireland

    https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/just-29-in-northern-ireland-would-vote-for-unity-major-study-reveals-38966196.html
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited May 2020

    RobD said:

    If the NHS app became available in the Isle of Wight today, why hasn't a tech journalist gone down there to demonstrate that it simply doesn't work?

    Journalists are under lockdown?
    How were they doing vox pops down there then? It's not impossible to arrange the test remotely, after all.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917

    Jonathan said:

    Wonder why they’ve thrown Ferguson under the bus now.

    He seems to have thrown himself under it.
    Either Ferguson has lost faith in the politicians and was looking for a way out, or he's lost faith in his own modeling and wanted to get out before it was exposed as inaccurate, is what this is probably about.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    The most disappointing thing about the Professor Ferguson story is the Sun headline. Far too wordy. Surely they could have done better than 'Professor Lockdown broke lockdown to get his trousers down'? Standards have really dropped.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    On topic: Alastair is half right. We should remember, and reflect on, the enduring lessons of WWII, the defining event of the modern era. But he's right that the hijacking of it by ignoramuses like Mark Francois should be treated with contempt.

    More generally, I find the indignation by some at the metaphor of 'waging war' against the virus to be totally bizarre. It's actually rather a good metaphor, in that the battle [another metaphor] involves the total mobilisation [another] of society, and especially of frontline [there I go again..] workers to defeat [and again..] it.

    I don't recall indignant Guardian articles complaining about War on Want or Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty - a theme taken up by Gordon Brown.

    It's a metaphor. We're grown-ups who can handle that sort of stuff, right?

    Except everything we wage our wars on seems to get worse. See 'terror' and 'drugs'.
    Isn’t the expert view that the drugs have got considerably better since we waged war on them?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Jonathan said:

    Wonder why they’ve thrown Ferguson under the bus now.

    He seems to have thrown himself under it.
    Either Ferguson has lost faith in the politicians and was looking for a way out, or he's lost faith in his own modeling and wanted to get out before it was exposed as inaccurate, is what this is probably about.
    Nah, it's just too good a story for the press not to jump on it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Good BBC "Reality Check" on comparing UK & Italian death tolls:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52530918
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    Wonder why they’ve thrown Ferguson under the bus now.

    He seems to have thrown himself under it.
    Yeah right. 🤷‍♂️ You might very well think that, I couldn’t possibly comment.
    missionary position was it then?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335

    Yokes said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Fortunately some patriotism is returning to Labour now Corbyn has been beaten
    https://twitter.com/GwynneMP/status/1256558809285345280?s=19
    Well done Bobby in what was a gutsy attempt to kick the Brits out of Northern Ireland.

    Note. Britain, we, are still here, but fair play for trying.
    Only 8 Unionist MPs out of 18 available seats elected in 2019...
    Irrelevant. Do better and understand the people who live here and for that matter those who live south of the border. There isn't enough of an appetite to lift that rock.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    edited May 2020
    I expect those who want the lockdown to end sooner rather than later will be happier about the prof's actions than those who think it should be maintained.
    When you're near the top pushing a stay home, don't go out unless it's an essential trip and regularly inviting a non household member into your property it desperately undermines the messaging.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Good Lord, the man had a long history of poor judgement. What have we done?!

    https://twitter.com/jamesheartfield/status/1257765833759166467?s=21

    That can't be right. I thought only Brexiteer Tories were allowed on SAGE....
    Johnson got rid of all the remainers in the cabinet so he could replace them with inadequate sops, only to let one make the biggest decision in the country’s history!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    If the NHS app became available in the Isle of Wight today, why hasn't a tech journalist gone down there to demonstrate that it simply doesn't work?

    Journalists are under lockdown?
    How were they doing vox pops down there then? It's not impossible to arrange the test remotely, after all.
    Dunno. I was asking a question. I agree that the general standard of journalism has been awful, I say it most days.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    If the NHS app became available in the Isle of Wight today, why hasn't a tech journalist gone down there to demonstrate that it simply doesn't work?

    Journalists are under lockdown?
    How were they doing vox pops down there then? It's not impossible to arrange the test remotely, after all.
    Dunno. I was asking a question. I agree that the general standard of journalism has been awful, I say it most days.
    Didn't mean to come of abrasive, sorry about that!
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    Am I the only one who couldn’t give a lockdown fuck about Professor Pantsdown and the blonde?

    c'mon, the irony
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608

    The most disappointing thing about the Professor Ferguson story is the Sun headline. Far too wordy. Surely they could have done better than 'Professor Lockdown broke lockdown to get his trousers down'? Standards have really dropped.

    Prof Lockdown cock up?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,999
    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kyf_100 said:

    When we stood alone in WWII, it was our finest hour as a nation.

    It is part of our national character, etched on our psyche, one of defiance, resiliance - it is a history to be proud of.

    It's a myth. We were an empire.
    The speech recognises that
    And kyf_100's comment doesn't.
    Yawn. Pathetic.

    If I'd said "the finest hour in our empire's history" you would have accused me of being a fascist, racist, imperialist for mere mention of the word "empire".

    I used the words part of our national character because that is what it is.

    I think your problem is that you think it's disgusting to be proud of your country so you want to use semantics to justify your hatred. Fair enough, but that's hardly my problem.
    I'm very patriotic, but the UK is an artificial political union that should be abolished.
    You are patriotic in the sense you want England, Scotland and Wales to join Ireland and become mere states in a Federal EU superstate of no more influence than California or Wyoming or Vermont
    But more influence than Scotland and Wales currently have in the UK. England might have its gas put at a peep tho'.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    kyf_100 said:

    Am I the only one who couldn’t give a lockdown fuck about Professor Pantsdown and the blonde?

    All it really shows is that it's human nature. You can't keep people under house arrest indefintely and expect them to give up on the things that make life good.

    For some that means a pint with their mates, for others it means hugging their grandchildren again. For the prof it meant getting his end away.
    Doomed though. If his Scottish counterpart had to walk the plank for just checking their second house....
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191
    I'm more worried about metaphors in the other direction. "surgical strikes" my arse
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    If the NHS app became available in the Isle of Wight today, why hasn't a tech journalist gone down there to demonstrate that it simply doesn't work?

    Journalists are under lockdown?
    How were they doing vox pops down there then? It's not impossible to arrange the test remotely, after all.
    Dunno. I was asking a question. I agree that the general standard of journalism has been awful, I say it most days.
    Didn't mean to come of abrasive, sorry about that!
    Nah, not taken that way at all.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    If the NHS app became available in the Isle of Wight today, why hasn't a tech journalist gone down there to demonstrate that it simply doesn't work?

    Journalists are under lockdown?
    How were they doing vox pops down there then? It's not impossible to arrange the test remotely, after all.
    They weren't journos, they worked for the BBC
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    The most disappointing thing about the Professor Ferguson story is the Sun headline. Far too wordy. Surely they could have done better than 'Professor Lockdown broke lockdown to get his trousers down'? Standards have really dropped.

    My favourite (possibly apocryphal) Sun headline was about a writer who complained to the editor about how much money the headline writers got paid "for doing so little" - so he was despatched to a town in Essex, then at the end of the Central line, to write about problems with the local Library - after he submitted his piece the editor showed him the headline: "Book Lack in Ongar".

    On the current Sun headline "Prof breaks lockdown to get pants down" would have been a better effort....
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,191

    kyf_100 said:

    Am I the only one who couldn’t give a lockdown fuck about Professor Pantsdown and the blonde?

    All it really shows is that it's human nature. You can't keep people under house arrest indefintely and expect them to give up on the things that make life good.

    For some that means a pint with their mates, for others it means hugging their grandchildren again. For the prof it meant getting his end away.
    Doomed though. If his Scottish counterpart had to walk the plank for just checking their second house....
    I thought the Prof had recovered from coronavirus so failing to see what he did wrong.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    isam said:

    What is it with all these quips about gay televangelists tonight? Oh wait, my God is @TheScreamingEagles Toby Young? Or just a case of great minds think alike? 😊

    https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1257765799714054146?s=21

    Another example of how really, really smart people can still act like complete dumbfucks.

    Everyone feels better after a story like that. Aside from the dumbfuck, that is.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Lock
    Cock
    Both barrels
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205
    X Æ A-12 is born.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149

    Good BBC "Reality Check" on comparing UK & Italian death tolls:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52530918

    Jesus Christ!

    Figures from the Italian statistics agency IStat show that deaths in Lombardy during March 2020 were 186.5% above the five-year average for that time of year, but in the province around the city of Bergamo they were 567.6% above the average.

    That helps explain why the shocking scenes of overcrowding that were seen in some Italian hospitals have not been replicated in London hospitals.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    kamski said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Am I the only one who couldn’t give a lockdown fuck about Professor Pantsdown and the blonde?

    All it really shows is that it's human nature. You can't keep people under house arrest indefintely and expect them to give up on the things that make life good.

    For some that means a pint with their mates, for others it means hugging their grandchildren again. For the prof it meant getting his end away.
    Doomed though. If his Scottish counterpart had to walk the plank for just checking their second house....
    I thought the Prof had recovered from coronavirus so failing to see what he did wrong.
    He may have been tested and deffo had it. But it completely undermines the lockdown with that not insubstantial number out there who will say "Yeah, I had that virus weeks back. Tested? Nah. But I had the symptoms and that..."
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Maybe asking the Prof to get caught breaking the lockdown himself was the only way the government thought they could get people out of the house and back to work
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    Good BBC "Reality Check" on comparing UK & Italian death tolls:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52530918

    It does show how fatuous are the attempts at compiling league tables relating to fatalities/ infections. Whether such comparisons will ever serve a useful purpose is not an issue which should be determined by obviously under-qualified newspaper workers.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    isam said:

    Maybe asking the Prof to get caught breaking the lockdown himself was the only way the government thought they could get people out of the house and back to work

    That seems a touch far-fetched!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kyf_100 said:

    When we stood alone in WWII, it was our finest hour as a nation.

    It is part of our national character, etched on our psyche, one of defiance, resiliance - it is a history to be proud of.

    It's a myth. We were an empire.
    The speech recognises that
    And kyf_100's comment doesn't.
    Yawn. Pathetic.

    If I'd said "the finest hour in our empire's history" you would have accused me of being a fascist, racist, imperialist for mere mention of the word "empire".

    I used the words part of our national character because that is what it is.

    I think your problem is that you think it's disgusting to be proud of your country so you want to use semantics to justify your hatred. Fair enough, but that's hardly my problem.
    I'm very patriotic, but the UK is an artificial political union that should be abolished.
    You are patriotic in the sense you want England, Scotland and Wales to join Ireland and become mere states in a Federal EU superstate of no more influence than California or Wyoming or Vermont
    But more influence than Scotland and Wales currently have in the UK. England might have its gas put at a peep tho'.
    Far from it, Scotland produced a UK PM only last decade and Scottish MPs are a higher percentage of Westminster MPs than they are of Brussels MEPs.

    In a Federal EU superstate Germany, then France and England would run the show (assuming Scotland voted for independence then both Scotland and England voted to rejoin the EU) with London the EU's richest and most powerful city, Scotland would be a backwater as influential as Montana is in the USA
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Pulpstar said:

    I expect those who want the lockdown to end sooner rather than later will be happier about the prof's actions than those who think it should be maintained.
    When you're near the top pushing a stay home, don't go out unless it's an essential trip and regularly inviting a non household member into your property it desperately undermines the messaging.

    I suppose I'm showing an inner authoritarian here, but I wouldn't have minded a D-notice on this until after the crisis is over - lives will be lost as a result of the idiocy and the gleeful reception.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601

    Good BBC "Reality Check" on comparing UK & Italian death tolls:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52530918

    In Italy the wealthiest region has been hardest hit, and the poorest areas the least worst. Maybe this shows that population density and pollution are more important factors.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    This guys situation may have been a rather unfortunate one, if self inflicted, but its getting way more coverage than it deserves. Its one guy, there are plenty of other big brains working away in the background.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,608
    kamski said:

    I'm more worried about metaphors in the other direction. "surgical strikes" my arse

    A "surgical strike" to Russians in Syria means "drop bombs on a hospital".....
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    kle4 said:

    Good BBC "Reality Check" on comparing UK & Italian death tolls:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52530918

    Jesus Christ!

    Figures from the Italian statistics agency IStat show that deaths in Lombardy during March 2020 were 186.5% above the five-year average for that time of year, but in the province around the city of Bergamo they were 567.6% above the average.

    That helps explain why the shocking scenes of overcrowding that were seen in some Italian hospitals have not been replicated in London hospitals.
    Some parts of Italy were affected to an incredible level while some others were barely touched. It’s odd given the mass exodus from the north that occurred when the partial lockdown happened.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,708
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kyf_100 said:

    When we stood alone in WWII, it was our finest hour as a nation.

    It is part of our national character, etched on our psyche, one of defiance, resiliance - it is a history to be proud of.

    It's a myth. We were an empire.
    The speech recognises that
    And kyf_100's comment doesn't.
    Yawn. Pathetic.

    If I'd said "the finest hour in our empire's history" you would have accused me of being a fascist, racist, imperialist for mere mention of the word "empire".

    I used the words part of our national character because that is what it is.

    I think your problem is that you think it's disgusting to be proud of your country so you want to use semantics to justify your hatred. Fair enough, but that's hardly my problem.
    I'm very patriotic, but the UK is an artificial political union that should be abolished.
    You are patriotic in the sense you want England, Scotland and Wales to join Ireland and become mere states in a Federal EU superstate of no more influence than California or Wyoming or Vermont
    But more influence than Scotland and Wales currently have in the UK. England might have its gas put at a peep tho'.
    Far from it, Scotland produced a UK PM only last decade and Scottish MPs are a higher percentage of Westminster MPs than they are of Brussels MEPs.

    In a Federal EU superstate Germany, then France and England would run the show (assuming Scotland voted for independence then both Scotland and England voted to rejoin the EU) with London the EU's richest and most powerful city, Scotland would be a backwater as influential as Montana is in the USA
    Just like New York and California run the show in the USA?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    The most disappointing thing about the Professor Ferguson story is the Sun headline. Far too wordy. Surely they could have done better than 'Professor Lockdown broke lockdown to get his trousers down'? Standards have really dropped.

    https://twitter.com/thesimonevans/status/1257805560260562952?s=21
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Yokes said:

    This guys situation may have been a rather unfortunate one, if self inflicted, but its getting way more coverage than it deserves. Its one guy, there are plenty of other big brains working away in the background.

    It's a news story though and currently there isn't actually that many to fill the hours.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    It is a valid news story to point out that the UK official death toll passed that of Italy today, given the attention Italy was getting earlier. In terms of actual comparisons, the UK can be grouped with Belgium, Spain, Italy and France as the European countries with very high death rates. If you want to rank those counties further, France comes fifth and the other countries, it depends on what point you are trying to make.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Yokes said:

    This guys situation may have been a rather unfortunate one, if self inflicted, but its getting way more coverage than it deserves. Its one guy, there are plenty of other big brains working away in the background.

    However, either off his own bat or at the government request, has been basically on every tv show, YouTube channel and newspaper channel going. I am not sure even Chris Witty has given as much copy.

    Plenty of the other "big brains" have quietly got on with their work in virtual anonymity.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    On topic the real injustice is that every anniversary VJ Day is largely ignored. Even with Colonel Tom's walking heroics only a few would have noticed his service was in India and Burma.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335
    edited May 2020

    Pulpstar said:

    I expect those who want the lockdown to end sooner rather than later will be happier about the prof's actions than those who think it should be maintained.
    When you're near the top pushing a stay home, don't go out unless it's an essential trip and regularly inviting a non household member into your property it desperately undermines the messaging.

    I suppose I'm showing an inner authoritarian here, but I wouldn't have minded a D-notice on this until after the crisis is over - lives will be lost as a result of the idiocy and the gleeful reception.
    Overdoing it surely. Why will lives be lost? The guy isn't unique, talented & capable maybe but he isn't a one off that carries all knowledge with him like an old, pardon the pun, Sage. The strategy is well set, the statistical methods by which things are looked are well set , there are welters of people involved here not just him. How the 'gleeful reception' will cost lives is a mystery. Did any more people die when the Chief Medical Officer decided to dip off to check the holiday home and had to go?

    The responsible will continue to be so, those who aren't never were. Most of the public wont give a rats arse after a day or two about him.

    Its the media that keep the story up. Lead on the World Tonight on Radio 4. really? Is it really that big? No.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Prof Pantsdown leading the R4 midnight news.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,139

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kyf_100 said:

    When we stood alone in WWII, it was our finest hour as a nation.

    It is part of our national character, etched on our psyche, one of defiance, resiliance - it is a history to be proud of.

    It's a myth. We were an empire.
    The speech recognises that
    And kyf_100's comment doesn't.
    Yawn. Pathetic.

    If I'd said "the finest hour in our empire's history" you would have accused me of being a fascist, racist, imperialist for mere mention of the word "empire".

    I used the words part of our national character because that is what it is.

    I think your problem is that you think it's disgusting to be proud of your country so you want to use semantics to justify your hatred. Fair enough, but that's hardly my problem.
    I'm very patriotic, but the UK is an artificial political union that should be abolished.
    You are patriotic in the sense you want England, Scotland and Wales to join Ireland and become mere states in a Federal EU superstate of no more influence than California or Wyoming or Vermont
    But more influence than Scotland and Wales currently have in the UK. England might have its gas put at a peep tho'.
    Far from it, Scotland produced a UK PM only last decade and Scottish MPs are a higher percentage of Westminster MPs than they are of Brussels MEPs.

    In a Federal EU superstate Germany, then France and England would run the show (assuming Scotland voted for independence then both Scotland and England voted to rejoin the EU) with London the EU's richest and most powerful city, Scotland would be a backwater as influential as Montana is in the USA
    Just like New York and California run the show in the USA?
    They and Texas and Florida yes.

    New York is the US financial capital, California the tech and entertainment capital, Texas the energy capital and Florida the retirement and space capital.

    The former are the basis of Democratic EC wins, the latter the basis of GOP EC wins
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,335

    Pulpstar said:

    I expect those who want the lockdown to end sooner rather than later will be happier about the prof's actions than those who think it should be maintained.
    When you're near the top pushing a stay home, don't go out unless it's an essential trip and regularly inviting a non household member into your property it desperately undermines the messaging.

    I suppose I'm showing an inner authoritarian here, but I wouldn't have minded a D-notice on this until after the crisis is over - lives will be lost as a result of the idiocy and the gleeful reception.
    By the way, a D-Notice over this story is just nonsense.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    R4 also discusses “deaths vs Italy” while also pointing out the pitfalls of such comparisons
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    FF43 said:

    It is a valid news story to point out that the UK official death toll passed that of Italy today, given the attention Italy was getting earlier. In terms of actual comparisons, the UK can be grouped with Belgium, Spain, Italy and France as the European countries with very high death rates. If you want to rank those counties further, France comes fifth and the other countries, it depends on what point you are trying to make.

    Is it, when the numbers can't be fairly compared?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,413

    Am I the only one who couldn’t give a lockdown fuck about Professor Pantsdown and the blonde?

    No. Me too. The public had steadfastly refused to see the Telegraphs anti Lockdown logic. Remove the figurehead and the logic does not become more logical.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    kle4 said:

    Good BBC "Reality Check" on comparing UK & Italian death tolls:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52530918

    Jesus Christ!

    Figures from the Italian statistics agency IStat show that deaths in Lombardy during March 2020 were 186.5% above the five-year average for that time of year, but in the province around the city of Bergamo they were 567.6% above the average.

    That helps explain why the shocking scenes of overcrowding that were seen in some Italian hospitals have not been replicated in London hospitals.
    Some parts of Italy were affected to an incredible level while some others were barely touched. It’s odd given the mass exodus from the north that occurred when the partial lockdown happened.
    It's Italy.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    HYUFD said:

    Yokes said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Fortunately some patriotism is returning to Labour now Corbyn has been beaten
    https://twitter.com/GwynneMP/status/1256558809285345280?s=19
    Well done Bobby in what was a gutsy attempt to kick the Brits out of Northern Ireland.

    Note. Britain, we, are still here, but fair play for trying.
    Only 8 Unionist MPs out of 18 available seats elected in 2019...
    52% of Northern Irish voters want to stay part of the UK, just 29% want a United Ireland

    https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/just-29-in-northern-ireland-would-vote-for-unity-major-study-reveals-38966196.html
    2019 was a REAL election...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    273 quarantined pax out of 18,000,000 who entered the UK while the pandemic was underway.....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited May 2020
    Labour MPs are starting to question the fact that 18.1 million people entered the UK in the run-up to the lockdown, with just 273 of them being quarantined.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/05/just-273-people-arriving-in-uk-in-run-up-to-lockdown-quarantined
    "The figures, provided by the government to the Labour MP and member of the home affairs select committee Stephen Doughty..."

    Former Labour advisor Ayesha Hazarika also mentioned this subject on tonight's paper review.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    FF43 said:

    It is a valid news story to point out that the UK official death toll passed that of Italy today, given the attention Italy was getting earlier. In terms of actual comparisons, the UK can be grouped with Belgium, Spain, Italy and France as the European countries with very high death rates. If you want to rank those counties further, France comes fifth and the other countries, it depends on what point you are trying to make.

    and the point you're trying to make is?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    For a man that is supposed a germ-o-phobe and seems very cowardly, I fully expected Trump to be in a hazmat suit like Putin was seen wearing. I actually shocked that the secret service let him out to stuff like this without protection, if there was a chemical attack they wouldn't, if there was a gunman on the loose they wouldn't...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8290511/Donald-Trump-ignores-compulsory-masks-sign-tours-MASK-factory.html
This discussion has been closed.