politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Monday night PB Nighthawks cafe with some positive news about a vaccine
As just about the whole world waits for a vaccine to be available there’s some positive new tonight about what’s going on in Oxford in the New York Times. The report notes that:
The Oxford project has been in the news for a little while, of course.
The more notable thing is the Yank version of The Graun saying something vaguely positive about a story connected to Britain. I'm not sure when that last happened - probably at some point prior to June 23rd 2016.
Anyhow, we can but hope that they strike it lucky: as I understand it, trying to develop a vaccine for any disease seems to involve a substantial element of luck.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I went to the 2005 G8 protests in Scotland, ended up sleeping in a tent in a public park the night after. Sometime in the early morning light a small group of people turned a generator on and a very loud music system, kept the whole lot of us awake for the sake of a dozen people enjoying a party.
That right pissed me off, got myself into a scuffle after pulling plugs out of sockets. Heard later that some greater hero had killed their generator with sugar.
I'm not having anyone waking me up at an ungodly hour.
Indeed. Broken sleep can send people mad with anger.
Some of the nastiest household arguments I’ve witnessed have happened when someone shattered the sleep of someone else.
The problem in India is serious, it’s an obvious source of friction
That would have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-muslim government of India. No, nothing at all. Look - squirrel!
The Indian government is bigoted. Would never deny that. But the call to prayer is a genuine grievance for many Hindus. There are hundreds of news articles about it, here’s just one
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
One shall be free to worship with one's holy nectar of choice.
There various kind of academics in the City of Oxford.
1) Those who have a full time position at the University of Oxford 2) Those who have a minor, part time gig at the University of Oxford 3) Those who have a full time position at Oxford Brookes University 4) Those who have a minor, part time gig at Oxford Brookes University etc etc etc 4364274623834) Those who have some kind of teaching gig at Oxford Brookes, but accidentally make it seem as if they teach at Oxford University 4364274623835) Jeffery Archer
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
Remember if you're driving, stick to Coors light.
Why because you have one sip and pour the rest down the toilet?
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
On which line of seasoning is it acceptable to require the neighbours to be quiet so Buddhists can meditate? Thought not.
US mass market domestic beers with a couple of exceptions are undrinkable. Always make me chuckle when the hipsters all went crazy for Pabst Blue Ribbon.
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
On which line of seasoning is it acceptable to require the neighbours to be quiet so Buddhists can meditate? Thought not.
You can meditate by focusing on the background noise.
However the meditation bell isn't so fecking loud that it wakes the neighbourhood.
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
Remember if you're driving, stick to Coors light.
If you are driving,don't drink period.
I have to say, I'd prefer 'full stop' or, at very least, more punctuation in that particular sentence.
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I went to the 2005 G8 protests in Scotland, ended up sleeping in a tent in a public park the night after. Sometime in the early morning light a small group of people turned a generator on and a very loud music system, kept the whole lot of us awake for the sake of a dozen people enjoying a party.
That right pissed me off, got myself into a scuffle after pulling plugs out of sockets. Heard later that some greater hero had killed their generator with sugar.
I'm not having anyone waking me up at an ungodly hour.
Indeed. Broken sleep can send people mad with anger.
Some of the nastiest household arguments I’ve witnessed have happened when someone shattered the sleep of someone else.
The problem in India is serious, it’s an obvious source of friction
That would have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-muslim government of India. No, nothing at all. Look - squirrel!
The Indian government is bigoted. Would never deny that. But the call to prayer is a genuine grievance for many Hindus. There are hundreds of news articles about it, here’s just one
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
Have to say I'm rather unimpressed by the giant state aid from France to it's big companies. It's one of the reasons why their economy is shite. The shareholders need to be funding these companies, the state aid needs to be banned by the EU in double quick time or we will need to protect our companies from being bought out by foreign ones using state backing.
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I went to the 2005 G8 protests in Scotland, ended up sleeping in a tent in a public park the night after. Sometime in the early morning light a small group of people turned a generator on and a very loud music system, kept the whole lot of us awake for the sake of a dozen people enjoying a party.
That right pissed me off, got myself into a scuffle after pulling plugs out of sockets. Heard later that some greater hero had killed their generator with sugar.
I'm not having anyone waking me up at an ungodly hour.
Indeed. Broken sleep can send people mad with anger.
Some of the nastiest household arguments I’ve witnessed have happened when someone shattered the sleep of someone else.
The problem in India is serious, it’s an obvious source of friction
That would have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-muslim government of India. No, nothing at all. Look - squirrel!
The Indian government is bigoted. Would never deny that. But the call to prayer is a genuine grievance for many Hindus. There are hundreds of news articles about it, here’s just one
Does the increase in alcohol consumption take account of the absence of people drinking in pubs and restaurants?
I used to go to pubs a couple of times a month at most. Now that we're locked down I'm at least half cut every Friday and Saturday night. And judging by what my friends and colleagues tell me I could be considered a bit of a lightweight...
This Oxford trial gives a very very best case scenario of a vaccine signed off in September so realistically its 12 months to go before its widespread. Which means 2m spacing buggering up so much of our lives for a long time to come. If that doesn't deserve a wee dram then what does?
Someone posted an interesting image here recently of people living in the era of Spanish flu who were wearing masks.
It puts me in mind of New Labour’s catastrophic Foot and Mouth disease response, where they simply forgot to read the report into the 1960s outbreak, which would have told them that the pyres were unnecessary, and a whole lot of other useful information.
Though Spanish flu is not a direct equivalent of coronavirus, nevertheless I wonder if there are contemporary official reports and studies that our scientists and politicians should read.
Does the increase in alcohol consumption take account of the absence of people drinking in pubs and restaurants?
I used to go to pubs a couple of times a month at most. Now that we're locked down I'm at least half cut every Friday and Saturday night. And judging by what my friends and colleagues tell me I could be considered a bit of a lightweight...
This Oxford trial gives a very very best case scenario of a vaccine signed off in September so realistically its 12 months to go before its widespread. Which means 2m spacing buggering up so much of our lives for a long time to come. If that doesn't deserve a wee dram then what does?
By the end of all this the population will consist largely of obese alcoholics on the one hand, and hyper-fit marathon runners and road cyclists on the other. In a ratio of about fifty of the former to every one of the latter, I'm afraid.
Someone posted an interesting image here recently of people living in the era of Spanish flu who were wearing masks.
It puts me in mind of New Labour’s catastrophic Foot and Mouth disease response, where they simply forgot to read the report into the 1960s outbreak, which would have told them that the pyres were unnecessary, and a whole lot of other useful information.
Though Spanish flu is not a direct equivalent of coronavirus, nevertheless I wonder if there are contemporary official reports and studies that our scientists and politicians should read.
You think our epidemiologists don't know about or haven't studied the Spanish flu pandemic?
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
Remember if you're driving, stick to Coors light.
If you are driving,don't drink period.
The government's don't drink and drive campaign vs the legal alcohol limits for driving neatly illustrates the distinction between the Coronavirus advice and the Coronavirus law.
Eh, that's pretty close. Overpromised, but hit it a week late and when people may be feeling a bit more positive as they think the peak has passed, and it can be blustered through.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I went to the 2005 G8 protests in Scotland, ended up sleeping in a tent in a public park the night after. Sometime in the early morning light a small group of people turned a generator on and a very loud music system, kept the whole lot of us awake for the sake of a dozen people enjoying a party.
That right pissed me off, got myself into a scuffle after pulling plugs out of sockets. Heard later that some greater hero had killed their generator with sugar.
I'm not having anyone waking me up at an ungodly hour.
Indeed. Broken sleep can send people mad with anger.
Some of the nastiest household arguments I’ve witnessed have happened when someone shattered the sleep of someone else.
The problem in India is serious, it’s an obvious source of friction
That would have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-muslim government of India. No, nothing at all. Look - squirrel!
The Indian government is bigoted. Would never deny that. But the call to prayer is a genuine grievance for many Hindus. There are hundreds of news articles about it, here’s just one
Was that you average Nazi was a bit fat and didn't cut an altogether Aryan figure. The dark combined with the brilliant lighting (contrast) of what he wanted to show hid this...
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
Remember if you're driving, stick to Coors light.
If you are driving,don't drink period.
Who drinks periods?
There is someone out there who does.. they walk amongst us...
Eh, that's pretty close. Overpromised, but hit it a week late and when people may be feeling a bit more positive as they think the peak has passed, and it can be blustered through.
If they had promised 50k or 75k, would anybody have cared? The 100k was a stupid arbitrary amount and Hancock is going to get it in the neck for it.
Eh, that's pretty close. Overpromised, but hit it a week late and when people may be feeling a bit more positive as they think the peak has passed, and it can be blustered through.
If they had promised 50k or 75k, would anybody have cared? The 100k was a stupid arbitrary amount and Hancock is going to get it in the neck for it.
Presumably you’ll be defending my rights to follow my religion when I bomb into the middle of Epping Forest with a giant sound system and blast out Underworld at 100 decibels at 2355 on Friday evenings?
No unless you have thousands attending your blast on Friday evenings as attend London Mosques
Why do numbers matter? If its OK for one it is OK for all. It is fundamentally unBritish to say otherwise.
No, the whole point of religion is community worship in part, blasting a loudspeaker for your own amusement only in breach of noise regulations does not encompass that
Worship of repetitive beats at 128bpm is as valid as any other.
I 100% agree.
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
Does it have to be Coors Light, or is one allowed to drink actual beer?
Remember if you're driving, stick to Coors light.
If you are driving,don't drink period.
Who drinks periods?
There is someone out there who does.. they walk amongst us...
Eh, that's pretty close. Overpromised, but hit it a week late and when people may be feeling a bit more positive as they think the peak has passed, and it can be blustered through.
If they had promised 50k or 75k, would anybody have cared? The 100k was a stupid arbitrary amount and Hancock is going to get it in the neck for it.
At least he didn't promise to die in a ditch if the target wasn't hit.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I went to the 2005 G8 protests in Scotland, ended up sleeping in a tent in a public park the night after. Sometime in the early morning light a small group of people turned a generator on and a very loud music system, kept the whole lot of us awake for the sake of a dozen people enjoying a party.
That right pissed me off, got myself into a scuffle after pulling plugs out of sockets. Heard later that some greater hero had killed their generator with sugar.
I'm not having anyone waking me up at an ungodly hour.
Indeed. Broken sleep can send people mad with anger.
Some of the nastiest household arguments I’ve witnessed have happened when someone shattered the sleep of someone else.
The problem in India is serious, it’s an obvious source of friction
That would have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-muslim government of India. No, nothing at all. Look - squirrel!
The Indian government is bigoted. Would never deny that. But the call to prayer is a genuine grievance for many Hindus. There are hundreds of news articles about it, here’s just one
I am getting a bit sick of these oldies going but but but but I am dead fit for my age I am. Great, good for you, but for CV, you are still at massive risk, so get in your bloody house and stay there.
I am getting a bit sick of these oldies going but but but but I am dead fit for my age I am. Great, good for you, but for CV, you are still at massive risk, so get in your bloody house and stay there.
Good luck with that message. There is no way the over 70s, baby boomers are going to stay in their houses for another 12 months.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I went to the 2005 G8 protests in Scotland, ended up sleeping in a tent in a public park the night after. Sometime in the early morning light a small group of people turned a generator on and a very loud music system, kept the whole lot of us awake for the sake of a dozen people enjoying a party.
That right pissed me off, got myself into a scuffle after pulling plugs out of sockets. Heard later that some greater hero had killed their generator with sugar.
I'm not having anyone waking me up at an ungodly hour.
Indeed. Broken sleep can send people mad with anger.
Some of the nastiest household arguments I’ve witnessed have happened when someone shattered the sleep of someone else.
The problem in India is serious, it’s an obvious source of friction
That would have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-muslim government of India. No, nothing at all. Look - squirrel!
The Indian government is bigoted. Would never deny that. But the call to prayer is a genuine grievance for many Hindus. There are hundreds of news articles about it, here’s just one
The Indian government is led by a chap whose private army consists of these wonderful chaps -
All they need is to change the shorts to some black ones...
Have they attacked Jews?
I suspect they would if there were more than an insignificant Jeswish presence in India. After all they attack all other religious minorities, but particularly Muslims.
I am getting a bit sick of these oldies going but but but but I am dead fit for my age I am. Great, good for you, but for CV, you are still at massive risk, so get in your bloody house and stay there.
Good luck with that message. There is no way the over 70s, baby boomers are going to stay in their houses for another 12 months.
Well as long as they are happy not to be given a CPAP mask or a ventilator when they get it...
I am getting a bit sick of these oldies going but but but but I am dead fit for my age I am. Great, good for you, but for CV, you are still at massive risk, so get in your bloody house and stay there.
My 55 year old male friend was hit miles harder by this virus than others I know who are younger. He's fitter than all of them. Raw biological age, regardless of other health or fitness is a bloody big factor in this.
I just looked at my Facebook newsfeed (often a bad idea). It seems like the anti vaccine types are getting very worked up. Tons of stuff about bill Gates taking over the world, planning to kill everyone, all kinds of weird shit.
What's going on? Is it the sight of the rest of the world publicly hoping for a vaccine for Covid to arrive as soon as possible that has tipped them over the edge?
Does the increase in alcohol consumption take account of the absence of people drinking in pubs and restaurants?
I used to go to pubs a couple of times a month at most. Now that we're locked down I'm at least half cut every Friday and Saturday night. And judging by what my friends and colleagues tell me I could be considered a bit of a lightweight...
This Oxford trial gives a very very best case scenario of a vaccine signed off in September so realistically its 12 months to go before its widespread. Which means 2m spacing buggering up so much of our lives for a long time to come. If that doesn't deserve a wee dram then what does?
By the end of all this the population will consist largely of obese alcoholics on the one hand, and hyper-fit marathon runners and road cyclists on the other. In a ratio of about fifty of the former to every one of the latter, I'm afraid.
I am running and cycling most days. And am doing push ups / sit ups etc as well. But yes. Snacky goodness and the sauce isn't helping. But fundamentally I know that this lockdown is knackering me mentally. Some beers chatting with friends on a screen is genuinely one thing in the week I look forward to. Some weeks it has been the only bright spot.
I am getting a bit sick of these oldies going but but but but I am dead fit for my age I am. Great, good for you, but for CV, you are still at massive risk, so get in your bloody house and stay there.
Self-isolation is dreadful and they're being confronted with the possibility of having to keep this going for a year, two years, God alone knows how long. It's no wonder they're screaming blue murder.
We also know that, according to the latest figures from Italy, the vast bulk of Covid-19 fatalities are amongst the over 70s (bring that down to the over 60s and the figure is about 96%.)
We're told that we can't ease the lockdown because it will lead to a tsunami wave of new cases, and we're told that we can't maintain the lockdown because the economy will implode. A compromise involving splitting the population in two and letting the younger age cohorts go back to something vaguely resembling normal life, whilst ordering the oldies to stay at home, might turn out to be the least worst of the available selection of bad options.
I am getting a bit sick of these oldies going but but but but I am dead fit for my age I am. Great, good for you, but for CV, you are still at massive risk, so get in your bloody house and stay there.
Self-isolation is dreadful and they're being confronted with the possibility of having to keep this going for a year, two years, God alone knows how long. It's no wonder they're screaming blue murder.
We also know that, according to the latest figures from Italy, the vast bulk of Covid-19 fatalities are amongst the over 70s (bring that down to the over 60s and the figure is about 96%.)
We're told that we can't ease the lockdown because it will lead to a tsunami wave of new cases, and we're told that we can't maintain the lockdown because the economy will implode. A compromise involving splitting the population in two and letting the younger age cohorts go back to something vaguely resembling normal life, whilst ordering the oldies to stay at home, might turn out to be the least worst of the available selection of bad options.
Unfortunately, when Ferguson was asked about this, he said pre-lockdown it wasn't a viable option as too many oldies require interaction with younger people for every day services. His model said 100k would die even if 80% of oldies never came into contact with youngsters if it was spreading widely.
The same problems exist post-lockdown. There would have to be some huge adjustments to shield a very high % of oldies.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I went to the 2005 G8 protests in Scotland, ended up sleeping in a tent in a public park the night after. Sometime in the early morning light a small group of people turned a generator on and a very loud music system, kept the whole lot of us awake for the sake of a dozen people enjoying a party.
That right pissed me off, got myself into a scuffle after pulling plugs out of sockets. Heard later that some greater hero had killed their generator with sugar.
I'm not having anyone waking me up at an ungodly hour.
Indeed. Broken sleep can send people mad with anger.
Some of the nastiest household arguments I’ve witnessed have happened when someone shattered the sleep of someone else.
The problem in India is serious, it’s an obvious source of friction
That would have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-muslim government of India. No, nothing at all. Look - squirrel!
The Indian government is bigoted. Would never deny that. But the call to prayer is a genuine grievance for many Hindus. There are hundreds of news articles about it, here’s just one
The Indian government is led by a chap whose private army consists of these wonderful chaps -
All they need is to change the shorts to some black ones...
Have they attacked Jews?
I suspect they would if there were more than an insignificant Jeswish presence in India. After all they attack all other religious minorities, but particularly Muslims.
They are ISIS in saffron.
Very much based on European fascist movements rather than ISIS
Someone posted an interesting image here recently of people living in the era of Spanish flu who were wearing masks.
It puts me in mind of New Labour’s catastrophic Foot and Mouth disease response, where they simply forgot to read the report into the 1960s outbreak, which would have told them that the pyres were unnecessary, and a whole lot of other useful information.
Though Spanish flu is not a direct equivalent of coronavirus, nevertheless I wonder if there are contemporary official reports and studies that our scientists and politicians should read.
You think our epidemiologists don't know about or haven't studied the Spanish flu pandemic?
The experts in the late 90's didn't bother looking in the filing cabinet for the 1960's report. So I think it's highly possible, yes.
I am getting a bit sick of these oldies going but but but but I am dead fit for my age I am. Great, good for you, but for CV, you are still at massive risk, so get in your bloody house and stay there.
Someone posted an interesting image here recently of people living in the era of Spanish flu who were wearing masks.
It puts me in mind of New Labour’s catastrophic Foot and Mouth disease response, where they simply forgot to read the report into the 1960s outbreak, which would have told them that the pyres were unnecessary, and a whole lot of other useful information.
Though Spanish flu is not a direct equivalent of coronavirus, nevertheless I wonder if there are contemporary official reports and studies that our scientists and politicians should read.
You think our epidemiologists don't know about or haven't studied the Spanish flu pandemic?
The experts in the late 90's didn't bother looking in the filing cabinet for the 1960's report. So I think it's highly possible, yes.
Have you written to the experts yet to tell them about your idea of using coronavirus suppositories as a vaccine?
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I went to the 2005 G8 protests in Scotland, ended up sleeping in a tent in a public park the night after. Sometime in the early morning light a small group of people turned a generator on and a very loud music system, kept the whole lot of us awake for the sake of a dozen people enjoying a party.
That right pissed me off, got myself into a scuffle after pulling plugs out of sockets. Heard later that some greater hero had killed their generator with sugar.
I'm not having anyone waking me up at an ungodly hour.
Indeed. Broken sleep can send people mad with anger.
Some of the nastiest household arguments I’ve witnessed have happened when someone shattered the sleep of someone else.
The problem in India is serious, it’s an obvious source of friction
That would have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-muslim government of India. No, nothing at all. Look - squirrel!
The Indian government is bigoted. Would never deny that. But the call to prayer is a genuine grievance for many Hindus. There are hundreds of news articles about it, here’s just one
The Indian government is led by a chap whose private army consists of these wonderful chaps -
All they need is to change the shorts to some black ones...
Have they attacked Jews?
I suspect they would if there were more than an insignificant Jeswish presence in India. After all they attack all other religious minorities, but particularly Muslims.
They are ISIS in saffron.
Very much based on European fascist movements rather than ISIS
An Indian friend mentions that they will attack Christians, if there aren't any Muslims conveniently available as victims.
There is a strong correlation between size of a country’s economy and the number of deaths.
Of the largest 20 economies (according to wiki, by GDP) fully 15 are in the top 20 for total deaths.
Of course big economies contain more people, so that’s expected. But 15 out of 20 is impressive. The ones missing are Oz, Korea, Japan, Indonesia (hmm) and Saudi
This suggests that being plugged into the global economy, thus creating wealth, is a central determinant of how bad a country is hit. So far. Unless you are East Asian.
Countries who have been rich for a long time = established healthcare system where people live longer....and in the West bad diets = fatties, heart disease, diabetes....
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I went to the 2005 G8 protests in Scotland, ended up sleeping in a tent in a public park the night after. Sometime in the early morning light a small group of people turned a generator on and a very loud music system, kept the whole lot of us awake for the sake of a dozen people enjoying a party.
That right pissed me off, got myself into a scuffle after pulling plugs out of sockets. Heard later that some greater hero had killed their generator with sugar.
I'm not having anyone waking me up at an ungodly hour.
Indeed. Broken sleep can send people mad with anger.
Some of the nastiest household arguments I’ve witnessed have happened when someone shattered the sleep of someone else.
The problem in India is serious, it’s an obvious source of friction
That would have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-muslim government of India. No, nothing at all. Look - squirrel!
The Indian government is bigoted. Would never deny that. But the call to prayer is a genuine grievance for many Hindus. There are hundreds of news articles about it, here’s just one
The Indian government is led by a chap whose private army consists of these wonderful chaps -
All they need is to change the shorts to some black ones...
Have they attacked Jews?
I suspect they would if there were more than an insignificant Jeswish presence in India. After all they attack all other religious minorities, but particularly Muslims.
They are ISIS in saffron.
Very much based on European fascist movements rather than ISIS
An Indian friend mentions that they will attack Christians, if there aren't any Muslims conveniently available as victims.
Someone posted an interesting image here recently of people living in the era of Spanish flu who were wearing masks.
It puts me in mind of New Labour’s catastrophic Foot and Mouth disease response, where they simply forgot to read the report into the 1960s outbreak, which would have told them that the pyres were unnecessary, and a whole lot of other useful information.
Though Spanish flu is not a direct equivalent of coronavirus, nevertheless I wonder if there are contemporary official reports and studies that our scientists and politicians should read.
You think our epidemiologists don't know about or haven't studied the Spanish flu pandemic?
The experts in the late 90's didn't bother looking in the filing cabinet for the 1960's report. So I think it's highly possible, yes.
Have you written to the experts yet to tell them about your idea of using coronavirus suppositories as a vaccine?
Amazing. I must have missed that gem the first time around.
It's a ridiculous argument, anyway. The experts are pretty clear that wearing masks would help; it's primarily a question of whether we have enough of a supply, without endangering health service workers (well, more than they already are).
Plus a side helping of whether, culturally, people have the discipline to wear them properly, or if they'll be as much harm as help if people keep taking them off to snack on the train or talk to people.
There is a strong correlation between size of a country’s economy and the number of deaths.
Of the largest 20 economies (according to wiki, by GDP) fully 15 are in the top 20 for total deaths.
Of course big economies contain more people, so that’s expected. But 15 out of 20 is impressive. The ones missing are Oz, Korea, Japan, Indonesia (hmm) and Saudi
This suggests that being plugged into the global economy, thus creating wealth, is a central determinant of how bad a country is hit. So far. Unless you are East Asian.
hmm indeed about Indonesia, there are graphs about suggesting that Jakarta has had a huge jump in total death numbers. Beyond that I'm afraid the most likely theory is that developed nations got it first because there is so much more travel to them.
I am getting a bit sick of these oldies going but but but but I am dead fit for my age I am. Great, good for you, but for CV, you are still at massive risk, so get in your bloody house and stay there.
Self-isolation is dreadful and they're being confronted with the possibility of having to keep this going for a year, two years, God alone knows how long. It's no wonder they're screaming blue murder.
We also know that, according to the latest figures from Italy, the vast bulk of Covid-19 fatalities are amongst the over 70s (bring that down to the over 60s and the figure is about 96%.)
We're told that we can't ease the lockdown because it will lead to a tsunami wave of new cases, and we're told that we can't maintain the lockdown because the economy will implode. A compromise involving splitting the population in two and letting the younger age cohorts go back to something vaguely resembling normal life, whilst ordering the oldies to stay at home, might turn out to be the least worst of the available selection of bad options.
Unfortunately, when Ferguson was asked about this, he said pre-lockdown it wasn't a viable option as too many oldies require interaction with younger people for every day services. His model said 100k would die even if 80% of oldies never came into contact with youngsters if it was spreading widely.
The same problems exist post-lockdown. There would have to be some huge adjustments to shield a very high % of oldies.
That being the case, I don't suppose he had any constructive suggestions as to how else we are actually meant to avoid the mass death of elderly people at the end of all this? We can't let everyone out because the whole thing will kick off again, we can't let younger people out whilst older people continue to self-isolate because it allegedly won't work (and there'll be caterwauling about unfairness, and the oldies might rebel anyway,) and we can't keep everyone locked up indefinitely because the economy will collapse and take everything else down with it (assuming that we don't all collectively rebel against it before things get that far.)
This doesn't appear to leave much in the way of other options...
Someone posted an interesting image here recently of people living in the era of Spanish flu who were wearing masks.
It puts me in mind of New Labour’s catastrophic Foot and Mouth disease response, where they simply forgot to read the report into the 1960s outbreak, which would have told them that the pyres were unnecessary, and a whole lot of other useful information.
Though Spanish flu is not a direct equivalent of coronavirus, nevertheless I wonder if there are contemporary official reports and studies that our scientists and politicians should read.
You think our epidemiologists don't know about or haven't studied the Spanish flu pandemic?
The experts in the late 90's didn't bother looking in the filing cabinet for the 1960's report. So I think it's highly possible, yes.
Have you written to the experts yet to tell them about your idea of using coronavirus suppositories as a vaccine?
Aw, don't be bitter, one day nature might grant you an idea beyond rejoining the EU.
There is a strong correlation between size of a country’s economy and the number of deaths.
Of the largest 20 economies (according to wiki, by GDP) fully 15 are in the top 20 for total deaths.
Of course big economies contain more people, so that’s expected. But 15 out of 20 is impressive. The ones missing are Oz, Korea, Japan, Indonesia (hmm) and Saudi
This suggests that being plugged into the global economy, thus creating wealth, is a central determinant of how bad a country is hit. So far. Unless you are East Asian.
Because people from those 15 countries travel abroad more frequently?
There is a strong correlation between size of a country’s economy and the number of deaths.
Of the largest 20 economies (according to wiki, by GDP) fully 15 are in the top 20 for total deaths.
Of course big economies contain more people, so that’s expected. But 15 out of 20 is impressive. The ones missing are Oz, Korea, Japan, Indonesia (hmm) and Saudi
This suggests that being plugged into the global economy, thus creating wealth, is a central determinant of how bad a country is hit. So far. Unless you are East Asian.
Countries who have been rich for a long time = established healthcare system where people live longer....and in the West bad diets = fatties, heart disease, diabetes....
Also big economies will have more trade and interaction with China, and more mobile domestic and foreign populations, to spread the disease early
Oh absolutely. We only have to look at Mr Super Spreader, travel to Far East for conference, then straight off skiiing in the Alps, before back home. 3 countries, 2 weeks, dozen+ infected.
It is also why I think outside of South Korea, Australia have done the best of all the developed countries. Strong links to China, huge amount of travel from citizens going to places in Asia (and the rest of the world), and densely populated in the major cities.
Also I seemed to remember a not insignificant amount of cases were linked to some Australians who had gone all the way to Italy skiing.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I went to the 2005 G8 protests in Scotland, ended up sleeping in a tent in a public park the night after. Sometime in the early morning light a small group of people turned a generator on and a very loud music system, kept the whole lot of us awake for the sake of a dozen people enjoying a party.
That right pissed me off, got myself into a scuffle after pulling plugs out of sockets. Heard later that some greater hero had killed their generator with sugar.
I'm not having anyone waking me up at an ungodly hour.
Indeed. Broken sleep can send people mad with anger.
Some of the nastiest household arguments I’ve witnessed have happened when someone shattered the sleep of someone else.
The problem in India is serious, it’s an obvious source of friction
That would have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-muslim government of India. No, nothing at all. Look - squirrel!
The Indian government is bigoted. Would never deny that. But the call to prayer is a genuine grievance for many Hindus. There are hundreds of news articles about it, here’s just one
The Indian government is led by a chap whose private army consists of these wonderful chaps -
All they need is to change the shorts to some black ones...
Have they attacked Jews?
I suspect they would if there were more than an insignificant Jeswish presence in India. After all they attack all other religious minorities, but particularly Muslims.
They are ISIS in saffron.
Very much based on European fascist movements rather than ISIS
An Indian friend mentions that they will attack Christians, if there aren't any Muslims conveniently available as victims.
Do you have any evidence of that - and do they report any violence by Muslims in India?
There is a strong correlation between size of a country’s economy and the number of deaths.
Of the largest 20 economies (according to wiki, by GDP) fully 15 are in the top 20 for total deaths.
Of course big economies contain more people, so that’s expected. But 15 out of 20 is impressive. The ones missing are Oz, Korea, Japan, Indonesia (hmm) and Saudi
This suggests that being plugged into the global economy, thus creating wealth, is a central determinant of how bad a country is hit. So far. Unless you are East Asian.
Countries who have been rich for a long time = established healthcare system where people live longer....and in the West bad diets = fatties, heart disease, diabetes....
Also big economies will have more trade and interaction with China, and more mobile domestic and foreign populations, to spread the disease early
Oh absolutely. We only have to look at Mr Super Spreader, travel to Far East for conference, then straight off skiiing in the Alps, before back home. 3 countries, 2 weeks, dozen+ infected.
It is also why I think outside of Korea, Australia have done the best of all the developed countries. Strong links to China, huge amount of travel from citizens across Asia, densely populated in the major cities.
Yes. Oz has done very well. A fact which has perplexed and largely silenced my left wing Aussie friends, who regard their prime minister as an antipodean trump/Boris
That said, it may just be luck. Spanish flu hit the northern hemisphere first. Then went south for summer.
It will be interesting to know what transmission rate was like in Australia. It did seem that for a number of weeks that all cases were imported or very close circle. Now that is obviously contact tracing doing its job, but even so.
Perhaps in places like US, UK, Italy, it was around a lot earlier (Icelandic Recode guy was saying he thinks it was widespread in the UK a lot earlier than the stats are showing), and in Australia got lucky and didn't get it imported as quickly, but also perhaps there was an element of it not spreading as easily because of the time of year.
There is a strong correlation between size of a country’s economy and the number of deaths.
Of the largest 20 economies (according to wiki, by GDP) fully 15 are in the top 20 for total deaths.
Of course big economies contain more people, so that’s expected. But 15 out of 20 is impressive. The ones missing are Oz, Korea, Japan, Indonesia (hmm) and Saudi
This suggests that being plugged into the global economy, thus creating wealth, is a central determinant of how bad a country is hit. So far. Unless you are East Asian.
Countries who have been rich for a long time = established healthcare system where people live longer....and in the West bad diets = fatties, heart disease, diabetes....
Also big economies will have more trade and interaction with China, and more mobile domestic and foreign populations, to spread the disease early
Oh absolutely. We only have to look at Mr Super Spreader, travel to Far East for conference, then straight off skiiing in the Alps, before back home. 3 countries, 2 weeks, dozen+ infected.
It is also why I think outside of Korea, Australia have done the best of all the developed countries. Strong links to China, huge amount of travel from citizens across Asia, densely populated in the major cities.
Australia and New Zealand have also benefited from not being in the Goldilocks zone, as far as we can tell, in terms of the temperature and humidity for the virus to flourish in March/April. Not saying they haven't also done well in policy terms, but it's probably a factor.
In terms of richer countries being more affected, I think we also need to take figures in less developed areas with a huge pinch of salt. Poorer countries are less likely to have universal healthcare, and deaths are more likely to happen at home and not show up in figures. They are also more likely to have governments with weaker independent agencies and greater ability to manipulate figures. An article in the FT showed "excess deaths" in several places which are out of all proportion with official Coronavirus deaths - there's an underestimate everywhere (care home deaths etc) but are the Ecuador official figures remotely reflective in any way? No chance.
I don't have a problem with it, just as I don't have a problem with church bells chiming every hour and ringing every Sunday
You haven’t travelled much, have you? The call to prayer is very intrusive and divisive, where it is allowed in multicultural countries
In India it’s one of the main causes of Hindu-Islamic tension, which has led to horrible violence. Hindus often cite it as one reason they dislike their Muslim neighbours.
I’d rather we avoided Indian style anger. Because that noise, heard 5 times a day, every day, for the rest of your life, drives people nuts
I heard it regularly when I was in Bethlehem and Nablus only last year.
If we are a nation which allows religious freedom, as we do, then that has to include allowing full respect for religious tradition, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or Hindu and in areas with a large Muslim population such as London that would include the call to prayer from Mosques
So you’d be OK with it five times a day, every day, starting at dawn, for the rest of time?
How about the rights of non-Muslims in that neighbourhood not to have this wailing enforced on them?
Lots of Muslims dislike the imposition of the call to prayer, and think it is too much via loudspeakers.
Yes, in East London and Birmingham up to half of the local population or more is Muslim in some areas so there would be strong demand for the call to prayer from the local mosque.
If we allow non-Muslims to stop the call to prayer we could also end up with non-Christians stopping the ringing of church bells in country villages and market towns
And what about the half of people who aren’t Muslim? Are they allowed to object to a very loud wailing waking them up every day at 5am? Or do they have to accept it because it is ‘religious’
If they don't like it move out of East London, to Richmond on Thames or the Home Counties for example where the Muslim population is very small, not that difficult
Ah. So the non Muslims who don’t like it should just move. Out of their own neighbourhood. Brilliant.
And what if they move to a small Home Counties town, well stocked with hot broth, but Muslims move in next door and start praying? Where do they move then? America? The moon?
I don't have a problem with Hare Krishna people doing stupid singing. I don't have a problem with Hasidic Jews wearing odd outfits. I don't have a problem with people spilling out of nightclubs at 3am off their faces.
This is a free country. If they're not harming anyone, people can do what the fuck they like.
My god. The stupid on here is intense tonight.
The call to prayer is entirely different to Jews in bloody dreadlocks. It is a significant and constant intrusion INTO your daily life, whether you like it or not. You can’t avoid it.
I can only presume that the Pb-ers who happily accept this have never spent serious time in Muslim countries so they don’t know what the F they are talking about
Like I said. I find the prayer haunting and beautiful, but if you’re living in a flat next to a mosque and it happens five times a day, deafeningly loud. your attitude might sour
I went to the 2005 G8 protests in Scotland, ended up sleeping in a tent in a public park the night after. Sometime in the early morning light a small group of people turned a generator on and a very loud music system, kept the whole lot of us awake for the sake of a dozen people enjoying a party.
That right pissed me off, got myself into a scuffle after pulling plugs out of sockets. Heard later that some greater hero had killed their generator with sugar.
I'm not having anyone waking me up at an ungodly hour.
Indeed. Broken sleep can send people mad with anger.
Some of the nastiest household arguments I’ve witnessed have happened when someone shattered the sleep of someone else.
The problem in India is serious, it’s an obvious source of friction
That would have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-muslim government of India. No, nothing at all. Look - squirrel!
The Indian government is bigoted. Would never deny that. But the call to prayer is a genuine grievance for many Hindus. There are hundreds of news articles about it, here’s just one
The Indian government is led by a chap whose private army consists of these wonderful chaps -
All they need is to change the shorts to some black ones...
Have they attacked Jews?
I suspect they would if there were more than an insignificant Jeswish presence in India. After all they attack all other religious minorities, but particularly Muslims.
They are ISIS in saffron.
Very much based on European fascist movements rather than ISIS
An Indian friend mentions that they will attack Christians, if there aren't any Muslims conveniently available as victims.
Do you have any evidence of that - and do they report any violence by Muslims in India?
Well, they've burnt his church 3 or 4 times*, and murdered a dozen or so people over the years.
*They rebuilt it the last time with very heavy duty reinforced concrete walls and a very light, easily replaceable roof. Apparently, if you make it too fireproof, they would come back with dynamite. So the idea is that the roof will burn and the mob will be happy.
There is a strong correlation between size of a country’s economy and the number of deaths.
Of the largest 20 economies (according to wiki, by GDP) fully 15 are in the top 20 for total deaths.
Of course big economies contain more people, so that’s expected. But 15 out of 20 is impressive. The ones missing are Oz, Korea, Japan, Indonesia (hmm) and Saudi
This suggests that being plugged into the global economy, thus creating wealth, is a central determinant of how bad a country is hit. So far. Unless you are East Asian.
Countries who have been rich for a long time = established healthcare system where people live longer....and in the West bad diets = fatties, heart disease, diabetes....
Also big economies will have more trade and interaction with China, and more mobile domestic and foreign populations, to spread the disease early
Oh absolutely. We only have to look at Mr Super Spreader, travel to Far East for conference, then straight off skiiing in the Alps, before back home. 3 countries, 2 weeks, dozen+ infected.
It is also why I think outside of Korea, Australia have done the best of all the developed countries. Strong links to China, huge amount of travel from citizens across Asia, densely populated in the major cities.
Australia and New Zealand have also benefited from not being in the Goldilocks zone, as far as we can tell, in terms of the temperature and humidity for the virus to flourish in March/April. Not saying they haven't also done well in policy terms, but it's probably a factor.
In terms of richer countries being more affected, I think we also need to take figures in less developed areas with a huge pinch of salt. Poorer countries are less likely to have universal healthcare, and deaths are more likely to happen at home and not show up in figures. They are also more likely to have governments with weaker independent agencies and greater ability to manipulate figures. An article in the FT showed "excess deaths" in several places which are out of all proportion with official Coronavirus deaths - there's an underestimate everywhere (care home deaths etc) but are the Ecuador official figures remotely reflective in any way? No chance.
The stories coming out of Brazil makes it appear like it is definitely worse than official figures.
Comments
And good news
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/27/coronavirus-pandemic-drinking-alcohol
The more notable thing is the Yank version of The Graun saying something vaguely positive about a story connected to Britain. I'm not sure when that last happened - probably at some point prior to June 23rd 2016.
Anyhow, we can but hope that they strike it lucky: as I understand it, trying to develop a vaccine for any disease seems to involve a substantial element of luck.
https://youtu.be/22Bn8jsGI54
All they need is to change the shorts to some black ones...
And if I and hundreds of my compatriots wish to drink in a pubs beer garden celebrating Our Church of Coors Light with repeated Holy Communions of Jagerbombs into the early hours with loud music playing is that acceptable? There are more regular visitors to many a popular bar than there are to many a Church.
I see no difference between that and any other worship. Either noise regulations matter or they don't.
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1254756320433049602?s=09
But not Fosters. **** Fosters that is a heresy.
1) Those who have a full time position at the University of Oxford
2) Those who have a minor, part time gig at the University of Oxford
3) Those who have a full time position at Oxford Brookes University
4) Those who have a minor, part time gig at Oxford Brookes University
etc
etc
etc
4364274623834) Those who have some kind of teaching gig at Oxford Brookes, but accidentally make it seem as if they teach at Oxford University
4364274623835) Jeffery Archer
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20200425/p2a/00m/0na/007000c
I am happy to be able to say I have 5 horse sized doses of the stuff.
However the meditation bell isn't so fecking loud that it wakes the neighbourhood.
https://twitter.com/ChrisGiles_/status/1254876273005953026
https://youtu.be/JPJqnTZgahU
That's one mean drink for next-day danger.....
Let's hope so.
Not sure how effective a paramilitary force those chubsters would make.
The 704 was a retrospective study, but interesting nonetheless.
Cures your lice at the same time. What more could a fella want?
This Oxford trial gives a very very best case scenario of a vaccine signed off in September so realistically its 12 months to go before its widespread. Which means 2m spacing buggering up so much of our lives for a long time to come. If that doesn't deserve a wee dram then what does?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8N7BSsU5oo
It puts me in mind of New Labour’s catastrophic Foot and Mouth disease response, where they simply forgot to read the report into the 1960s outbreak, which would have told them that the pyres were unnecessary, and a whole lot of other useful information.
Though Spanish flu is not a direct equivalent of coronavirus, nevertheless I wonder if there are contemporary official reports and studies that our scientists and politicians should read.
Its like the government behavioural scientists might have known a thing or two.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_of_Light
Was that you average Nazi was a bit fat and didn't cut an altogether Aryan figure. The dark combined with the brilliant lighting (contrast) of what he wanted to show hid this...
There is someone out there who does.. they walk amongst us...
https://twitter.com/SenatorReid/status/1254836730546384897?s=20
The Government thinks us over-70s are 'vulnerable' - but this is about attitude, not age
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/government-thinks-us-over-70s-vulnerable-attitude-not-age/
I am getting a bit sick of these oldies going but but but but I am dead fit for my age I am. Great, good for you, but for CV, you are still at massive risk, so get in your bloody house and stay there.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
They are ISIS in saffron.
Raw biological age, regardless of other health or fitness is a bloody big factor in this.
What's going on? Is it the sight of the rest of the world publicly hoping for a vaccine for Covid to arrive as soon as possible that has tipped them over the edge?
Nope.
UAE figures are complete fiction too.
We also know that, according to the latest figures from Italy, the vast bulk of Covid-19 fatalities are amongst the over 70s (bring that down to the over 60s and the figure is about 96%.)
We're told that we can't ease the lockdown because it will lead to a tsunami wave of new cases, and we're told that we can't maintain the lockdown because the economy will implode. A compromise involving splitting the population in two and letting the younger age cohorts go back to something vaguely resembling normal life, whilst ordering the oldies to stay at home, might turn out to be the least worst of the available selection of bad options.
The same problems exist post-lockdown. There would have to be some huge adjustments to shield a very high % of oldies.
https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1254789880137187328
I could imagine that Russia have done 3 million tests.
With something like this -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651
It's a ridiculous argument, anyway. The experts are pretty clear that wearing masks would help; it's primarily a question of whether we have enough of a supply, without endangering health service workers (well, more than they already are).
Plus a side helping of whether, culturally, people have the discipline to wear them properly, or if they'll be as much harm as help if people keep taking them off to snack on the train or talk to people.
This doesn't appear to leave much in the way of other options...
It is also why I think outside of South Korea, Australia have done the best of all the developed countries. Strong links to China, huge amount of travel from citizens going to places in Asia (and the rest of the world), and densely populated in the major cities.
Also I seemed to remember a not insignificant amount of cases were linked to some Australians who had gone all the way to Italy skiing.
Perhaps in places like US, UK, Italy, it was around a lot earlier (Icelandic Recode guy was saying he thinks it was widespread in the UK a lot earlier than the stats are showing), and in Australia got lucky and didn't get it imported as quickly, but also perhaps there was an element of it not spreading as easily because of the time of year.
In terms of richer countries being more affected, I think we also need to take figures in less developed areas with a huge pinch of salt. Poorer countries are less likely to have universal healthcare, and deaths are more likely to happen at home and not show up in figures. They are also more likely to have governments with weaker independent agencies and greater ability to manipulate figures. An article in the FT showed "excess deaths" in several places which are out of all proportion with official Coronavirus deaths - there's an underestimate everywhere (care home deaths etc) but are the Ecuador official figures remotely reflective in any way? No chance.
*They rebuilt it the last time with very heavy duty reinforced concrete walls and a very light, easily replaceable roof. Apparently, if you make it too fireproof, they would come back with dynamite. So the idea is that the roof will burn and the mob will be happy.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/25/brazil-becoming-coronavirus-hot-spot-as-testing-falters.html
Who are the tubby goons with khaki shorts and orange flags?