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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s Friday night so time for the PB Nighthawks Cafe

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It’s Friday night so time for the PB Nighthawks Cafe

Amongst all the developments during this extraordinary week the one that stands out surely is the advice by Donald Trump to inject disinfectant into people in order to combat the virus. Apparently it came just want him and hadn’t been discussed at all with other members of the the President’s advisory team.

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217
    I'm reposting this, because I thought it was good comment...

    I'm going to quote George W Bush here: “Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions.”

    The reality is that while the EU has been bad, we've been fucking atrocious too. We signed up, just a few months ago, which Johnson was already PM, to a political declaration. And we've publicly decried large chunks of that declaration. If I was an EU negotiatior, I'd be feeling like the UK was Perfidious Albion.

    I'm not saying the EU is blameless (they're clearly not), but the GWB quote is apposite, we're seeing the bad things they're doing while excusing ourselves. And I'm sure in Brussels they're doing it the other way around.

    It's not a very encouraging start.
  • Care homes' soaring death rate blamed on 'reckless' order to take back Covid-19 patients

    The number of Covid-19 deaths in care homes was estimated by Care England to have reached 7,500 a week ago...

    ...A Whitehall official told the Telegraph that the policy to offload hospital patients was designed as a “stiff broom” to free up capacity in hospitals.

    But care providers on Friday accused the Government of “reckless” behaviour which had “significantly” increased the number of coronavirus deaths in care homes.

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1253793072737062914
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    It appears the leak of big dom being at a SAGE meeting, was the meeting the day before the big lockdown was announced.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    It appears the leak of big dom being at a SAGE meeting, was the meeting the day before the big lockdown was announced.

    So the scientific advice the government is following is Malcom Tuckers?

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Jonathan said:

    It appears the leak of big dom being at a SAGE meeting, was the meeting the day before the big lockdown was announced.

    So the scientific advice the government is following is Malcom Tuckers?

    Present but not involved? ;)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    ‪My guess is that the Grauniad has jumped the gun on this Cummings SAGE story because they’re too invested in wanting it to be true. ‬
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    ‪My guess is that the Grauniad has jumped the gun on this Cummings SAGE story because they’re too invested in wanting it to be true. ‬

    I hope you’re right. It would be scary if true.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm reposting this, because I thought it was good comment...

    I'm going to quote George W Bush here: “Too often we judge other groups by their worst examples, while judging ourselves by our best intentions.”

    The reality is that while the EU has been bad, we've been fucking atrocious too. We signed up, just a few months ago, which Johnson was already PM, to a political declaration. And we've publicly decried large chunks of that declaration. If I was an EU negotiatior, I'd be feeling like the UK was Perfidious Albion.

    I'm not saying the EU is blameless (they're clearly not), but the GWB quote is apposite, we're seeing the bad things they're doing while excusing ourselves. And I'm sure in Brussels they're doing it the other way around.

    It's not a very encouraging start.

    It’s all very predictable. We’d be far better off calling a halt to talks now and spending the next few months at least trying to mitigate some of the effects of not having an FTA with by far our biggest trading partner.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    So what will tonight's advice be from the Commander in Chief?

    Gargling jizz protects you from the virus?

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    ‪My guess is that the Grauniad has jumped the gun on this Cummings SAGE story because they’re too invested in wanting it to be true. ‬

    PM's senior advisor sitting on a committee advising the PM really isn't news, is it?

    All it shows is that certain sections of the media and senior civil service just don't like the guy.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Sandpit said:

    ‪My guess is that the Grauniad has jumped the gun on this Cummings SAGE story because they’re too invested in wanting it to be true. ‬

    PM's senior advisor sitting on a committee advising the PM really isn't news, is it?

    All it shows is that certain sections of the media and senior civil service just don't like the guy.
    You think Malcolm Tucker gives objective scientific advice?

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Jonathan said:

    Sandpit said:

    ‪My guess is that the Grauniad has jumped the gun on this Cummings SAGE story because they’re too invested in wanting it to be true. ‬

    PM's senior advisor sitting on a committee advising the PM really isn't news, is it?

    All it shows is that certain sections of the media and senior civil service just don't like the guy.
    You think Malcolm Tucker gives objective scientific advice?

    Tucker wasn't the chief policy advisor, he was the director of communications. Loosly based on one A Campbell, so I'm told. Allegedly. ;)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    The main complaint the guardian seems to have for the other government guy being there is he was involved in Brexit. By their own admission he is an accomplished data scientist.

    I dont think the Guardian should have names the other attendees.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FPT


    When was the last time the Grauniad had a remarkable story.? I i mean a really remarkable story that stood up to scrutiny. This one just fell on its arse.
    Is Damian Green reliable on this point? The Guardian has former Chief Scientist Sir David King and David Lidington, de facto deputy to Theresa May, saying there were no political appointees, ministers or SpAds on SAGE or its predecessors.
    They are both right...

    It’s the difference between observing, attending, and being a member of

    The devolved CMOs were observers
    The PM/his representatives are attendees

    Neither are members (or “on”) SAGE

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    Amazing to live through a time when the government is more popular than journalists.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Jonathan said:

    ‪My guess is that the Grauniad has jumped the gun on this Cummings SAGE story because they’re too invested in wanting it to be true. ‬

    I hope you’re right. It would be scary if true.

    I think I am. There’s too much space for the story to be wrong because the reporters have heard what they wanted to hear. It’s one where you need a really rigorous, disinterested senior editorial team to interrogate the investigation. But no newspaper in this country has one of those anymore.

  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Andy_JS said:

    Amazing to live through a time when the government is more popular than journalists.

    The Guardian have ferked this up big time .
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878
    FPT
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:



    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    welshowl said:

    HYUFD said:

    Canada doesn't have a back door to the EU in the form of the Irish land border, and it doesn't need frictionless RoRo traffic at Dover.
    Different circumstances, different processes, different legal provisions required.
    The Withdrawal Agreement ensured no hard border in Ireland
    To quote welshowl from above: "That Irish border is going to be fun when we’re not exactly too zealous about tracking what’s leaving Liverpool or

    Stranraer, isn’t it?"


    That attitude is exactly the problem. (Not when coming from welshowl, but from HMG)
    Feeling a touch of possible overreach regret?

    Are you suggesting that the British government should ignore the agreement on Northern Ireland that it and all its MPs signed up for?
    The key is avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, rigorously enforcing checks between Northern Ireland and GB is less important
    In a Hard Brexit, those Irish Sea checks are not optional.

    Obviously can be very light touch with an EEA style deal, but that is not where we are heading.

    I expect there will be Irish reunification to square the circle.
    What are the EU going to do? Send bureaucrats to Liverpool and Belfast to ensure they are enforced?

    You may think there will be Irish reunification, Northern Irish voters certainly do not
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-nireland-poll/poll-shows-northern-ireland-majority-against-united-ireland-idUSKBN20C0WI
    Fewest number of Unionist MPs from Northern Ireland elected at GE2019.
    43% voted for Unionist parties at the general election and only 38% for Nationalist parties

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2019/results/northern_ireland
    a) 57% of NI voters didn't back a Unionist party.
    b) Unionists won only 8 out of 18 seats. Nationalists won 9 (Alliance won the 18th).
    73% of voters who are neither Unionist nor Nationalist ie Alliance voters also back staying in the UK

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-nireland-poll/poll-shows-northern-ireland-majority-against-united-ireland-idUSKBN20C0WI
    In a REAL election in 2019, more Nationalist MPs were elected than Unionist MPs.
    In another REAL election in 2019, Unionists won only ONE out of three EU Parliament seats (though of course the latter are no longer sitting!).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    I don't know about Sage, but they were definitely smoking something herbal to think that a policy resulting in 250,000 deaths was a good idea.

    And why are so many people queueing outside B&Q? Is it worth risking your life for a pot of paint?

    Night all.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Jonathan said:

    ‪My guess is that the Grauniad has jumped the gun on this Cummings SAGE story because they’re too invested in wanting it to be true. ‬

    I hope you’re right. It would be scary if true.

    I think I am. There’s too much space for the story to be wrong because the reporters have heard what they wanted to hear. It’s one where you need a really rigorous, disinterested senior editorial team to interrogate the investigation. But no newspaper in this country has one of those anymore.

    Well the big Sunday times piece managed to claim an academic objected to a decision. He was neither there nor objects, because as he said if he wasn't present, didn't see all the evidence and thus have to go with the consensus.

    Basic fact checking stuff.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    The Guardian is looking for snitches.
    Covid-19: help us investigate
    The Guardian is investigating how the UK government prepared for – and is responding to – the coronavirus pandemic. We want to learn more about recent decisions taken at the heart of government. If you’re a whistleblower or source and with new information, you can email covid19.investigations@theguardian.com, or (using a non-work phone) use Signal or WhatsApp to message (UK) +44 7584 640566. (The number does not take calls.) For the most secure communications, use SecureDrop.


  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Andy_JS said:

    Amazing to live through a time when the government is more popular than journalists.

    When have journalists ever been popular. They’ve always been reviled, but we’ve always lapped up their content. Our PM is a journalist, after all.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FPT
    welshowl said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:



    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    welshowl said:

    HYUFD said:

    Canada doesn't have a back door to the EU in the form of the Irish land border, and it doesn't need frictionless RoRo traffic at Dover.
    Different circumstances, different processes, different legal provisions required.
    The Withdrawal Agreement ensured no hard border in Ireland
    To quote welshowl from above: "That Irish border is going to be fun when we’re not exactly too zealous about tracking what’s leaving Liverpool or

    Stranraer, isn’t it?"


    That attitude is exactly the problem. (Not when coming from welshowl, but from HMG)
    Feeling a touch of possible overreach regret?

    Are you suggesting that the British government should ignore the agreement on Northern Ireland that it and all its MPs signed up for?
    The key is avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, rigorously enforcing checks between Northern Ireland and GB is less important
    In a Hard Brexit, those Irish Sea checks are not optional.

    Obviously can be very light touch with an EEA style deal, but that is not where we are heading.

    I expect there will be Irish reunification to square the circle.


    What are the EU going to do? Send bureaucrats to Liverpool and Belfast to ensure they are enforced?
    That is, basically, what HMG has already signed up to with the WA.

    Hmm. So the damp portakabin allocated to EU customs officials, that so lhappens to be near Larne port in deepest Protestant unionist Ulster is going to be a lovely posting for whatever poor sod of an EU personnel gets posted there, isn’t it?

    Nope. They asked for a portakabin.

    We said no.

    They might get an umbrella... for a small fee...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Another evidence of SO opinion. The Cheltenham map... journalists so want a story to be true that didn't consider not normalized for population density nor entertain the idea it might be fake given the numerous spelling mistakes and more cases reported in one area than people who live there.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    So what will tonight's advice be from the Commander in Chief?

    Gargling jizz protects you from the virus?

    Only his...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited April 2020
    geoffw said:

    The Guardian is looking for snitches.
    Covid-19: help us investigate
    The Guardian is investigating how the UK government prepared for – and is responding to – the coronavirus pandemic. We want to learn more about recent decisions taken at the heart of government. If you’re a whistleblower or source and with new information, you can email covid19.investigations@theguardian.com, or (using a non-work phone) use Signal or WhatsApp to message (UK) +44 7584 640566. (The number does not take calls.) For the most secure communications, use SecureDrop.

    The Guardian, May 1944.

    Anyone got any inside info on the plan to storm Normandy that we're hearing about? Apparently some SpAd we don't like because he supported the war is on a committee somewhere advising the PM to go ahead with it. But people could die.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    I don't know about Sage, but they were definitely smoking something herbal to think that a policy resulting in 250,000 deaths was a good idea.

    And why are so many people queueing outside B&Q? Is it worth risking your life for a pot of paint?

    Night all.

    It was the polling that changed, not the science obviously.

    Older Tory voters didn't fancy pushing up daisies in support of Johnson's herd immunity.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Foxy said:

    I don't know about Sage, but they were definitely smoking something herbal to think that a policy resulting in 250,000 deaths was a good idea.

    And why are so many people queueing outside B&Q? Is it worth risking your life for a pot of paint?

    Night all.

    It was the polling that changed, not the science obviously.

    Older Tory voters didn't fancy pushing up daisies in support of Johnson's herd immunity.
    You're a medical doctor, right? Tell me, is there any way out of this that is not via herd immunity, either via a vaccine or acquired by infection from the virus?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    edited April 2020

    I don’t think that Cummings story can be true. I don’t think even Jonson is that crass. The Guardian has got it wrong.

    In other news, I had my first shave in 17 days today. It feels very fine to be rid of that itch.

    Perhaps in consolation at being unable to grow a beard worthy of the name, I find I don't get much of an itch when unshaven for any length of time. Poor consolation though.

    On Cummings, what I know of him I don't much like, but I am wary of much reporting of him because he does appear to be used as a bogeyman. It won't even matter now if it is true or not, it will have become a fact.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    That last sentence - ooft.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    How much government time is being wasted dealing with all this fake news?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    How much government time is being wasted dealing with all this fake news?
    Past 3 days.... twitter bots, dodgy maps, nurse shortages, PPE delboys...if this was WWII, Hitler would be winning so easily as government would be so distracted trying to correct all the fake news.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370
    Charles said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:



    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    welshowl said:

    HYUFD said:

    Canada doesn't have a back door to the EU in the form of the Irish land border, and it doesn't need frictionless RoRo traffic at Dover.
    Different circumstances, different processes, different legal provisions required.
    The Withdrawal Agreement ensured no hard border in Ireland
    To quote welshowl from above: "That Irish border is going to be fun when we’re not exactly too zealous about tracking what’s leaving Liverpool or

    Stranraer, isn’t it?"


    That attitude is exactly the problem. (Not when coming from welshowl, but from HMG)
    Feeling a touch of possible overreach regret?

    Are you suggesting that the British government should ignore the agreement on Northern Ireland that it and all its MPs signed up for?
    The key is avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, rigorously enforcing checks between Northern Ireland and GB is less important
    In a Hard Brexit, those Irish Sea checks are not optional.

    Obviously can be very light touch with an EEA style deal, but that is not where we are heading.

    I expect there will be Irish reunification to square the circle.


    What are the EU going to do? Send bureaucrats to Liverpool and Belfast to ensure they are enforced?
    That is, basically, what HMG has already signed up to with the WA.

    Hmm. So the damp portakabin allocated to EU customs officials, that so lhappens to be near Larne port in deepest Protestant unionist Ulster is going to be a lovely posting for whatever poor sod of an EU personnel gets posted there, isn’t it?

    Nope. They asked for a portakabin.

    We said no.

    They might get an umbrella... for a small fee...
    Having had experience of Ireland, the Irish and the Border...

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099698/

    Would be useful viewing first for anyone posted there...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    Really?

    It is an acceptance that they were there and participated in meetings including asking questions.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    TGOHF666 said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    That last sentence - ooft.
    Ouch - but nice to see them hitting back
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    Really?

    It is an acceptance that they were there and participated in meetings including asking questions.
    Asking questions ? Arrests imminent then ?

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    Really?

    It is an acceptance that they were there and participated in meetings including asking questions.
    Is that not acceptable?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Charles said:

    FPT

    welshowl said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:



    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    welshowl said:

    HYUFD said:

    Canada doesn't have a back door to the EU in the form of the Irish land border, and it doesn't need frictionless RoRo traffic at Dover.
    Different circumstances, different processes, different legal provisions required.
    The Withdrawal Agreement ensured no hard border in Ireland
    To quote welshowl from above: "That Irish border is going to be fun when we’re not exactly too zealous about tracking what’s leaving Liverpool or

    Stranraer, isn’t it?"


    That attitude is exactly the problem. (Not when coming from welshowl, but from HMG)
    Feeling a touch of possible overreach regret?

    Are you suggesting that the British government should ignore the agreement on Northern Ireland that it and all its MPs signed up for?
    The key is avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, rigorously enforcing checks between Northern Ireland and GB is less important
    In a Hard Brexit, those Irish Sea checks are not optional.

    Obviously can be very light touch with an EEA style deal, but that is not where we are heading.

    I expect there will be Irish reunification to square the circle.


    What are the EU going to do? Send bureaucrats to Liverpool and Belfast to ensure they are enforced?
    That is, basically, what HMG has already signed up to with the WA.

    Hmm. So the damp portakabin allocated to EU customs officials, that so



    lhappens to be near Larne port in deepest Protestant unionist Ulster is going to be a lovely posting for whatever poor sod of an EU personnel gets posted there, isn’t it?

    Nope. They asked for a portakabin.

    We said no.

    They might get an umbrella... for a small fee...
    Lol! Either way who the hell is going to want that gig? Some fast track Austrian/ Finnish/ Portuguese/Whatever customs wunderkind hoping to
    enhance their promotion prospects meets 400 years of conflict?

    Christ good luck to them.

    Don’t think Barnier’s thought that through....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    How much government time is being wasted dealing with all this fake news?
    Past 3 days.... twitter bots, dodgy maps, nurse shortages, PPE delboys...if this was WWII, Hitler would be winning so easily as government would be so distracted trying to correct all the fake news.
    Nah: Hitler would have been stuck in his bedroom posting his oil paintings to Instagram, complaining about not getting enough likes, before heading off to Twitter to blame the Jews.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    Maybe I'm a complete idiot, but I'm really struggling to understand the scandal. Policy advisor asks questions to experts.

    It seems to go beyond the banal into... ummm... actually Cummings doing his job.
    There isn't a scandal. There is a lie by the Guardian, that's all. Cummings does not 'sit on the secret science advisory group'.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    Maybe I'm a complete idiot, but I'm really struggling to understand the scandal. Policy advisor asks questions to experts.

    It seems to go beyond the banal into... ummm... actually Cummings doing his job.
    There isn't a scandal. There is a lie by the Guardian, that's all. Cummings does not 'sit on the secret science advisory group'.
    And now they have outed the members of this secret panel.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    Jonathan said:

    ‪My guess is that the Grauniad has jumped the gun on this Cummings SAGE story because they’re too invested in wanting it to be true. ‬

    I hope you’re right. It would be scary if true.

    I think I am. There’s too much space for the story to be wrong because the reporters have heard what they wanted to hear. It’s one where you need a really rigorous, disinterested senior editorial team to interrogate the investigation. But no newspaper in this country has one of those anymore.

    Well the big Sunday times piece managed to claim an academic objected to a decision. He was neither there nor objects, because as he said if he wasn't present, didn't see all the evidence and thus have to go with the consensus.

    Basic fact checking stuff.
    There is also a another factor.

    I mentioned before the Tailwind scandal - CNN ran a story that literally proved itself to be rubbish. The story contained details that proved the story was not true.

    During the investigation of what happened, it was revealed that someone had attempted to check the story. They had been pushed back by management - "Why are you trying to F&%k the story?" was the literal phrase used.

    F&%king a story was apparently *well known* slang for "over checking a story" preventing its publication, at CNN. Better to put it out there, earn some ratings and retract in small print later.

    So you get something that is sort of printable. You could investigate in depth - which might lead to a proper story, but also might lead to it being binned.

    Or you print.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    geoffw said:

    Foxy said:

    I don't know about Sage, but they were definitely smoking something herbal to think that a policy resulting in 250,000 deaths was a good idea.

    And why are so many people queueing outside B&Q? Is it worth risking your life for a pot of paint?

    Night all.

    It was the polling that changed, not the science obviously.

    Older Tory voters didn't fancy pushing up daisies in support of Johnson's herd immunity.
    You're a medical doctor, right? Tell me, is there any way out of this that is not via herd immunity, either via a vaccine or acquired by infection from the virus?
    Yes, there is also the possibility of effective antiviral drugs.

    Don't you find it convenient that "the science changed" to the same science as the rest of the world, at that time?

  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    eadric said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    The Guardian should be closed down for this. Wildly irresponsible journalism, worse than any phone tapping tabloid
    I think they should do a deal: call it quits with the Mail, and both close down.

    (Although I would miss Andrew Sparrow's excellent live blogs).
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052



    It seems to go beyond the banal into... ummm... actually Cummings doing his job.

    There isn't a scandal. There is a lie by the Guardian, that's all. Cummings does not 'sit on the secret science advisory group'.

    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards ?

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    eadric said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    The Guardian should be closed down for this. Wildly irresponsible journalism, worse than any phone tapping tabloid
    As a starting point, the apology needs to be given the same prominence as the original story - main headline and top half of the front page - on Monday.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    TGOHF666 said:
    It's been admitted that he attends SAGE meetings and that he contributes. Arguing that he is not "on" the committee is little more than semantics.

    The Mail online is running a story tonight that in a report a year ago the government were advised to stockpile PPE. People are angry about front-line carers and medical staff catching the virus and dying due to lack of PPE and it does transpire that all that was avoidable but the government chose not to act on the advice it was given a year ago it's going to take a bit more than semantic jiggery-pokery to get out of that one.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    OllyT said:



    It's been admitted that he attends SAGE meetings and that he contributes. Arguing that he is not "on" the committee is little more than semantics.

    By 'semantics', I assume you mean '100% true'?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Summoning? It's in June, and it's currently April.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,149
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    Maybe I'm a complete idiot, but I'm really struggling to understand the scandal. Policy advisor asks questions to experts.

    It seems to go beyond the banal into... ummm... actually Cummings doing his job.
    The excitement makes sense (if it is even true) if one thinks he exercises undue influence, but even that relies on people having a particular fear or dislike of Cummings personally. Frankly there seem juicier grounds for potential scandal out there, but it's not as simple as 'disliked man does x'.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,370

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:



    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    welshowl said:

    HYUFD said:

    Canada doesn't have a back door to the EU in the form of the Irish land border, and it doesn't need frictionless RoRo traffic at Dover.
    Different circumstances, different processes, different legal provisions required.
    The Withdrawal Agreement ensured no hard border in Ireland
    To quote welshowl from above: "That Irish border is going to be fun when we’re not exactly too zealous about tracking what’s leaving Liverpool or

    Stranraer, isn’t it?"


    That attitude is exactly the problem. (Not when coming from welshowl, but from HMG)
    Feeling a touch of possible overreach regret?

    Are you suggesting that the British government should ignore the agreement on Northern Ireland that it and all its MPs signed up for?
    The key is avoiding a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, rigorously enforcing checks between Northern Ireland and GB is less important
    In a Hard Brexit, those Irish Sea checks are not optional.

    Obviously can be very light touch with an EEA style deal, but that is not where we are heading.

    I expect there will be Irish reunification to square the circle.
    What are the EU going to do? Send bureaucrats to Liverpool and Belfast to ensure they are enforced?

    You may think there will be Irish reunification, Northern Irish voters certainly do not
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-nireland-poll/poll-shows-northern-ireland-majority-against-united-ireland-idUSKBN20C0WI
    Fewest number of Unionist MPs from Northern Ireland elected at GE2019.
    43% voted for Unionist parties at the general election and only 38% for Nationalist parties

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2019/results/northern_ireland
    a) 57% of NI voters didn't back a Unionist party.
    b) Unionists won only 8 out of 18 seats. Nationalists won 9 (Alliance won the 18th).
    73% of voters who are neither Unionist nor Nationalist ie Alliance voters also back staying in the UK

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-nireland-poll/poll-shows-northern-ireland-majority-against-united-ireland-idUSKBN20C0WI
    In a REAL election in 2019, more Nationalist MPs were elected than Unionist MPs.
    In another REAL election in 2019, Unionists won only ONE out of three EU Parliament seats (though of course the latter are no longer sitting!).
    It's one of the strange features of Northern Ireland that being pro-united Ireland doesn't track with voting for Nationalist or even Republican parties.

    During the 80s when the Chuckle brothers were proclaims the policy of the Ballet Box & Armalite a very substantial chunk of the Sinn Féin vote reported in onion polls that they would vote against unification. Yes, they were voting for a party engaged in trying to kill it's way to the possibility of a united Ireland. But they wanted to reject that if it came to a vote...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    Maybe I'm a complete idiot, but I'm really struggling to understand the scandal. Policy advisor asks questions to experts.

    It seems to go beyond the banal into... ummm... actually Cummings doing his job.
    There isn't a scandal. There is a lie by the Guardian, that's all. Cummings does not 'sit on the secret science advisory group'.
    And now they have outed the members of this secret panel.
    Why is it secret?

    If the government wants it to be credible, why not publish the minutes, like the BoE MPC?

    We all know that the best science is published and peer reviewed. Indeed doing so is likely to improve the quality of SAGE.

    I am a bit surprised that anyone is surprised that political considerations came into the decision making.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    OllyT said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    It's been admitted that he attends SAGE meetings and that he contributes. Arguing that he is not "on" the committee is little more than semantics.

    The Mail online is running a story tonight that in a report a year ago the government were advised to stockpile PPE. People are angry about front-line carers and medical staff catching the virus and dying due to lack of PPE and it does transpire that all that was avoidable but the government chose not to act on the advice it was given a year ago it's going to take a bit more than semantic jiggery-pokery to get out of that one.
    The headline implies he is giving advice. I don't think that is the case.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2020
    TGOHF666 said:


    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards ?

    They've lost their minds. The entire coverage since March has been a non-stop attempt to dig up or fabricate 'evidence' that the government is handling this disastrously, and probably deliberately killing people for profit. This must be true, in their minds, 'cos, you know, Tories and Boris and Brexit.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Piers Morgan am has had an interesting crisis.

    Some specific polling on him would be interesting.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited April 2020
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    Maybe I'm a complete idiot, but I'm really struggling to understand the scandal. Policy advisor asks questions to experts.

    It seems to go beyond the banal into... ummm... actually Cummings doing his job.
    There isn't a scandal. There is a lie by the Guardian, that's all. Cummings does not 'sit on the secret science advisory group'.
    And now they have outed the members of this secret panel.
    Why is it secret?

    If the government wants it to be credible, why not publish the minutes, like the BoE MPC?

    We all know that the best science is published and peer reviewed. Indeed doing so is likely to improve the quality of SAGE.

    I am a bit surprised that anyone is surprised that political considerations came into the decision making.
    Absolute transparency in times of crisis probably isn't the best strategy. Especially with the way the media are behaving. There needs to be a forum were things can be discussed openly, and without fear of what the newspapers will say the next day.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    TGOHF666 said:

    Piers Morgan am has had an interesting crisis.

    Some specific polling on him would be interesting.

    Private Eye have been calling him Piers Moron for two decades now. I'm not sure his polling could fall much lower than it was already.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    TGOHF666 said:



    It seems to go beyond the banal into... ummm... actually Cummings doing his job.

    There isn't a scandal. There is a lie by the Guardian, that's all. Cummings does not 'sit on the secret science advisory group'.


    In what way is attending meetings and asking questions of other members not "sitting on the advisory group"?

    It seems the very definition of it.

  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:


    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards ?

    They've lost their minds. The entire coverage since March has been a non-stop attempt to dig up or fabricate 'evidence' that the government is handling this disastrously, and probably deliberately killing people for profit. This must be true, in their minds, 'cos, you know,
    One day after a poll shows the public despise this shit - the Guardian pours a ton of it over the nations head.


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    The crux of the big dom story is did he give advice / basically driving where SAGE discussions went, or was he just there listening and they "succcccc me....i have a question...can you explain..."

    Seems unlikely witty and valance putting up with the former.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited April 2020
    Foxy said:

    <

    In what way is attending meetings and asking questions of other members not "sitting on the advisory group"?

    It seems the very definition of it.

    Members are empowered to give advice, others are not.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:


    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards ?

    They've lost their minds. The entire coverage since March has been a non-stop attempt to dig up or fabricate 'evidence' that the government is handling this disastrously, and probably deliberately killing people for profit. This must be true, in their minds, 'cos, you know,
    One day after a poll shows the public despise this shit - the Guardian pours a ton of it over the nations head.


    When the government spins its capacity for tests over actual tests and not answering basic questions you can’t blame people for being somewhat sceptical.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    Maybe I'm a complete idiot, but I'm really struggling to understand the scandal. Policy advisor asks questions to experts.

    It seems to go beyond the banal into... ummm... actually Cummings doing his job.
    There isn't a scandal. There is a lie by the Guardian, that's all. Cummings does not 'sit on the secret science advisory group'.
    And now they have outed the members of this secret panel.
    Why is it secret?

    If the government wants it to be credible, why not publish the minutes, like the BoE MPC?

    We all know that the best science is published and peer reviewed. Indeed doing so is likely to improve the quality of SAGE.

    I am a bit surprised that anyone is surprised that political considerations came into the decision making.
    Absolute transparency in times of crisis probably isn't the best strategy. Especially with the way the media are behaving. There needs to be a forum were things can be discussed openly, and without fear of what the newspapers will say the next day.
    On the contrary, being open with the evidence would make the advice more credible.

    Indeed since March 23rd, that is exactly what has happened at 1700 each day.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2020
    Foxy said:

    In what way is attending meetings and asking questions of other members not "sitting on the advisory group"?

    It seems the very definition of it.

    So in your mind a patient attending a meeting with you and asking questions is on the medical team?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    That’s a pretty hard hitting response

    (I hadn’t seen it before I posted my response to @DecrepitJohnL above!)
    Maybe I'm a complete idiot, but I'm really struggling to understand the scandal. Policy advisor asks questions to experts.

    It seems to go beyond the banal into... ummm... actually Cummings doing his job.
    There isn't a scandal. There is a lie by the Guardian, that's all. Cummings does not 'sit on the secret science advisory group'.
    And now they have outed the members of this secret panel.
    Why is it secret?

    If the government wants it to be credible, why not publish the minutes, like the BoE MPC?

    We all know that the best science is published and peer reviewed. Indeed doing so is likely to improve the quality of SAGE.

    I am a bit surprised that anyone is surprised that political considerations came into the decision making.
    Absolute transparency in times of crisis probably isn't the best strategy. Especially with the way the media are behaving. There needs to be a forum were things can be discussed openly, and without fear of what the newspapers will say the next day.
    On the contrary, being open with the evidence would make the advice more credible.

    Indeed since March 23rd, that is exactly what has happened at 1700 each day.
    What is discussed at the press conference is likely a tiny subset of what is discussed at these advisory meetings. I suppose you think they should be live streamed or something?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    RobD said:

    OllyT said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    It's been admitted that he attends SAGE meetings and that he contributes. Arguing that he is not "on" the committee is little more than semantics.

    The Mail online is running a story tonight that in a report a year ago the government were advised to stockpile PPE. People are angry about front-line carers and medical staff catching the virus and dying due to lack of PPE and it does transpire that all that was avoidable but the government chose not to act on the advice it was given a year ago it's going to take a bit more than semantic jiggery-pokery to get out of that one.
    The headline implies he is giving advice. I don't think that is the case.
    Surely his role is as political advisir? Why else would he be there?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:


    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards ?

    They've lost their minds. The entire coverage since March has been a non-stop attempt to dig up or fabricate 'evidence' that the government is handling this disastrously, and probably deliberately killing people for profit. This must be true, in their minds, 'cos, you know,
    One day after a poll shows the public despise this shit - the Guardian pours a ton of it over the nations head.


    When the government spins its capacity for tests over actual tests and not answering basic questions you can’t blame people for being somewhat sceptical.

    To be fair to them, they've always said the target is number of tests administered.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    TGOHF666 said:

    Piers Morgan am has had an interesting crisis.

    Some specific polling on him would be interesting.

    Single handedly dragged the reputation of "TV journalists" down to the level of "print journalists".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    OllyT said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    It's been admitted that he attends SAGE meetings and that he contributes. Arguing that he is not "on" the committee is little more than semantics.

    The Mail online is running a story tonight that in a report a year ago the government were advised to stockpile PPE. People are angry about front-line carers and medical staff catching the virus and dying due to lack of PPE and it does transpire that all that was avoidable but the government chose not to act on the advice it was given a year ago it's going to take a bit more than semantic jiggery-pokery to get out of that one.
    The headline implies he is giving advice. I don't think that is the case.
    Surely his role is as political advisir? Why else would he be there?
    To listen and understand the advice being given?
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:


    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards

    They've lost their minds. The entire coverage sincedknow,
    When the government spins its capacity for tests over actual tests and not answering basic questions you can’t blame people for being somewhat sceptical.

    Looks like both the capacity and the tests will be very big by the end of the month - which will be a very unpopular outcome with the press and lefties.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    eadric said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    The Guardian should be closed down for this. Wildly irresponsible journalism, worse than any phone tapping tabloid
    Good idea - close down any paper that criticises the government while you're at it. Very democratic.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    TGOHF666 said:

    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:


    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards

    They've lost their minds. The entire coverage sincedknow,
    When the government spins its capacity for tests over actual tests and not answering basic questions you can’t blame people for being somewhat sceptical.

    Looks like both the capacity and the tests will be very big by the end of the month - which will be a very unpopular outcome with the press and lefties.

    Huge, in fact. ;)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited April 2020
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    OllyT said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    It's been admitted that he attends SAGE meetings and that he contributes. Arguing that he is not "on" the committee is little more than semantics.

    The Mail online is running a story tonight that in a report a year ago the government were advised to stockpile PPE. People are angry about front-line carers and medical staff catching the virus and dying due to lack of PPE and it does transpire that all that was avoidable but the government chose not to act on the advice it was given a year ago it's going to take a bit more than semantic jiggery-pokery to get out of that one.
    The headline implies he is giving advice. I don't think that is the case.
    Surely his role is as political advisir? Why else would he be there?
    Err - to understand the political and policy implications of the scientific debate, so that he can advise the PM.

    This really isn't hard. Put down your blinkers and you'll see it immediately.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    TGOHF666 said:

    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:


    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards

    They've lost their minds. The entire coverage sincedknow,
    When the government spins its capacity for tests over actual tests and not answering basic questions you can’t blame people for being somewhat sceptical.

    Looks like both the capacity and the tests will be very big by the end of the month - which will be a very unpopular outcome with the press and lefties.

    Eh? We’ve been waiting ages for the government to get this right. It’s not a game.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Jesus Christ the BBC are sticking rolling average trend lines through the daily announced death figures rather than the date of deaths. Are these people absolutely morons.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:



    It's been admitted that he attends SAGE meetings and that he contributes. Arguing that he is not "on" the committee is little more than semantics.

    By 'semantics', I assume you mean '100% true'?
    I'm not defending the Guardian, they should have been more accurate in their wording. I am simply saying that to the lay person if someone is attends and contributes at a SAGE Committee meeting whether they are technically a member or not does not seem highly relevant. The government is trying to deflect attention from the fact he was there at all.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Jesus Christ the BBC are sticking rolling average trend lines through the daily announced death figures rather than the date of deaths. Are these people absolutely morons.

    What a silly question. :smiley:
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    The scientific debate does not, and cannot exist in a vacuum. The stakes are two high. It actually makes sense for the scientific debates to happen with awareness of the political context.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    OllyT said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    It's been admitted that he attends SAGE meetings and that he contributes. Arguing that he is not "on" the committee is little more than semantics.

    The Mail online is running a story tonight that in a report a year ago the government were advised to stockpile PPE. People are angry about front-line carers and medical staff catching the virus and dying due to lack of PPE and it does transpire that all that was avoidable but the government chose not to act on the advice it was given a year ago it's going to take a bit more than semantic jiggery-pokery to get out of that one.
    The headline implies he is giving advice. I don't think that is the case.
    Surely his role is as political advisir? Why else would he be there?

    Err - to understand the political and policy implications of the scientific debate, so that he can advise the PM.


    This really isn't hard. Put down your blinkers and you'll see it immediately.
    I am sure if Malcom Tucker showed up to passively listen and learn you would support that.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Jesus Christ the BBC are sticking rolling average trend lines through the daily announced death figures rather than the date of deaths. Are these people absolutely morons.

    I thought they employed data scientists?
    Can they bring Prof Sir John Curtice back for a few weeks?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited April 2020

    TGOHF666 said:


    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards ?

    They've lost their minds. The entire coverage since March has been a non-stop attempt to dig up or fabricate 'evidence' that the government is handling this disastrously, and probably deliberately killing people for profit. This must be true, in their minds, 'cos, you know, Tories and Boris and Brexit.
    Which Guardian articles have suggested the government is "probably deliberately killing people for profit"?

    HMG have clearly performed badly in a number of areas; a free press should rightly point that out.

    If Cummings is not on SAGE he could always sue the Guardian.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:



    It's been admitted that he attends SAGE meetings and that he contributes. Arguing that he is not "on" the committee is little more than semantics.

    By 'semantics', I assume you mean '100% true'?
    I'm not defending the Guardian, they should have been more accurate in their wording. I am simply saying that to the lay person if someone is attends and contributes at a SAGE Committee meeting whether they are technically a member or not does not seem highly relevant. The government is trying to deflect attention from the fact he was there at all.
    The Guardian claims to be a serious newspaper. It has 'Facts are sacred' as its motto. So the very first thing it should do is be accurate, especially on a big headline on the front page. If it had said 'Cummings sat in on SAGE meetings' there really wouldn't be much of a story, would there? That's because there isn't much of a story.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Sandpit said:

    Jesus Christ the BBC are sticking rolling average trend lines through the daily announced death figures rather than the date of deaths. Are these people absolutely morons.

    I thought they employed data scientists?
    Can they bring Prof Sir John Curtice back for a few weeks?
    I genuinely have no idea who the hell they have doing this crap. It is like they ran that bar chart for best part of a day that suggested the government only did 2000 tests on one day. Anybody with half a brain would think hmm so 18k, 19k, 2k, 22k, 21k....perhaps there is a typo, better double check.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    TGOHF666 said:


    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards ?

    They've lost their minds. The entire coverage since March has been a non-stop attempt to dig up or fabricate 'evidence' that the government is handling this disastrously, and probably deliberately killing people for profit. This must be true, in their minds, 'cos, you know, Tories and Boris and Brexit.
    Which Guardian articles have suggested the government is "probably deliberately killing people for profit"?
    They haven't quite got that bit yet, but they are trying hard. Look for example at this utterly demented article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/05/rees-mogg-firm-accused-of-cashing-in-on-coronavirus-crisis


  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    I am not sure the prime minister’s chief advisor can be a passive observer at any meeting. Would the scientists be as free to question current policy? Without any agenda, his presence will warp the discussion.

    Schrödinger’s cat meets Whitehall.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    Foolish to let Cummings anywhere near this secret scientific committee - he's a deliberately divisive and provocative figure. His presence was always going to be leaked and with it taint the scientific objectivity that the government is desperate to be seen to be guided by. Silly, silly, silly. Did they learn nothing from the damage the Alistair Campbell/Dodgy Dossier stuff caused for Blair?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited April 2020
    Just as a matter of interest, what is the basis for declaring this committee to be "secret"?

    Because for an apparently secret committee, a lot of people seem to be remarkably well informed about its role, who traditionally sits on it, how it operates, and generally why this story is utterly damning for the Government, and it verging on a constitutional outrage!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    So you’re at work and the CEO’s personal advisor rocks up at your meeting just to ‘understand’ what you’re discussing. Do you carry on as normal or do you clench?
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Foolish to let Cummings anywhere near this secret scientific committee - he's a deliberately divisive and provocative figure. His presence was always going to be leaked and with it taint the scientific objectivity that the government is desperate to be seen to be guided by. Silly, silly, silly. Did they learn nothing from the damage the Alistair Campbell/Dodgy Dossier stuff caused for Blair?


    Correct - he should only be allowed to sit in on meetings where no harm can come to small mammals - perhaps a symposium on cacti or caterpillar management.

    Typical Tories.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    alex_ said:

    Just as a matter of interest, what is the basis for declaring this committee to be "secret"?

    That the journalist in question finds it too difficult to get the minutes leaked to them?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,878

    TGOHF666 said:


    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards ?

    They've lost their minds. The entire coverage since March has been a non-stop attempt to dig up or fabricate 'evidence' that the government is handling this disastrously, and probably deliberately killing people for profit. This must be true, in their minds, 'cos, you know, Tories and Boris and Brexit.
    UK death rate per million people = 287
    Trump's USA death rate per million people = 157
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    TGOHF666 said:


    Are the Guardian that desperate for ad revenue or just digging downwards ?

    They've lost their minds. The entire coverage since March has been a non-stop attempt to dig up or fabricate 'evidence' that the government is handling this disastrously, and probably deliberately killing people for profit. This must be true, in their minds, 'cos, you know, Tories and Boris and Brexit.
    Which Guardian articles have suggested the government is "probably deliberately killing people for profit"?
    They haven't quite got that bit yet, but they are trying hard. Look for example at this utterly demented article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/05/rees-mogg-firm-accused-of-cashing-in-on-coronavirus-crisis
    What is dememented about that article? It's factual and even makes room for SCM's response.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Jonathan said:

    So you’re at work and the CEO’s personal advisor rocks up at your meeting just to ‘understand’ what you’re discussing. Do you carry on as normal or do you clench?

    Given that the PM or a senior minister are always present I don't think that's an issue.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Jonathan said:

    So you’re at work and the CEO’s personal advisor rocks up at your meeting just to ‘understand’ what you’re discussing. Do you carry on as normal or do you clench?

    Wow Jon - spot on. Boris should resign tomorrow.
This discussion has been closed.