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SystemSystem Posts: 12,598
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Welcome to another Thursday night PB Nighthawks after another evening of clapping on the streets

Being stuck in our homes for most of the day the Thursday evening clapping in the streets for the NHS comes as something of a relief. It is just nice to get out of the house and also to exchange a few words with neighbours.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    edited April 2020
    First.....in the queue for flour.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,529
    Second, like care home staff
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    It’s odd. Every Thursday I hear about this on here, on WhatsApp, on Facebook.

    Every Thursday my street is as quiet as the cemetery next to it.

    I do live on a council estate. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on it. Maybe it’s a very middle-class thing?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    Judging by the replies, there are a lot of middle aged men on the twitter machine who appear to have spilled their coffee when this popped up on their timeline...

    https://twitter.com/Nigella_Lawson/status/1250857872948420610?s=19
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Judging by the replies, there are a lot of middle aged men on the twitter machine who appear to have spilled their coffee when this popped up on their timeline...

    https://twitter.com/Nigella_Lawson/status/1250857872948420610?s=19

    Not just middle aged either: https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1250875250239320066
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,529
    Trump is taking a hell of an obvious gamble pushing the US toward reopening on 1 May
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,378
    IanB2 said:

    Trump is taking a hell of an obvious gamble pushing the US toward reopening on 1 May

    Trump needs the economy to recover by November.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    ydoethur said:

    It’s odd. Every Thursday I hear about this on here, on WhatsApp, on Facebook.

    Every Thursday my street is as quiet as the cemetery next to it.

    I do live on a council estate. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on it. Maybe it’s a very middle-class thing?

    I don't think that's right - my son lives in a street of "Coronation st" type older houses and they loudly clap - He lives with 2 nurses and they do appreciate it
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Judging by the replies, there are a lot of middle aged men on the twitter machine who appear to have spilled their coffee when this popped up on their timeline...

    https://twitter.com/Nigella_Lawson/status/1250857872948420610?s=19

    Not just middle aged either: https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1250875250239320066
    tsk tsk Owen jones seeing her as a sex object rather than an independent person....does that cancel his woke card
    He has a point though :smiley:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    Has anybody seen chris grayling recently?

    https://twitter.com/JesseLehrich/status/1250595619397386245?s=09
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    It’s odd. Every Thursday I hear about this on here, on WhatsApp, on Facebook.

    Every Thursday my street is as quiet as the cemetery next to it.

    I do live on a council estate. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on it. Maybe it’s a very middle-class thing?

    I don't think that's right - my son lives in a street of "Coronation st" type older houses and they loudly clap - He lives with 2 nurses and they do appreciate it
    Your son lives with 2 nurses? No wonder he claps
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pagan2 said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    It’s odd. Every Thursday I hear about this on here, on WhatsApp, on Facebook.

    Every Thursday my street is as quiet as the cemetery next to it.

    I do live on a council estate. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on it. Maybe it’s a very middle-class thing?

    I don't think that's right - my son lives in a street of "Coronation st" type older houses and they loudly clap - He lives with 2 nurses and they do appreciate it
    Your son lives with 2 nurses? No wonder he claps
    I think the unwoke assumptions in that cancel out to zero.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    It’s odd. Every Thursday I hear about this on here, on WhatsApp, on Facebook.

    Every Thursday my street is as quiet as the cemetery next to it.

    I do live on a council estate. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on it. Maybe it’s a very middle-class thing?

    I don't think that's right - my son lives in a street of "Coronation st" type older houses and they loudly clap - He lives with 2 nurses and they do appreciate it
    Maybe it’s just the people of Chadsmoor are not interested in the world outside?

    Or perhaps they haven’t heard about it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,512
    Floater said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Judging by the replies, there are a lot of middle aged men on the twitter machine who appear to have spilled their coffee when this popped up on their timeline...

    https://twitter.com/Nigella_Lawson/status/1250857872948420610?s=19

    Not just middle aged either: https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1250875250239320066
    tsk tsk Owen jones seeing her as a sex object rather than an independent person....does that cancel his woke card
    He has a point though :smiley:
    Unfortunate double entendre there...
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    It’s odd. Every Thursday I hear about this on here, on WhatsApp, on Facebook.

    Every Thursday my street is as quiet as the cemetery next to it.

    I do live on a council estate. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on it. Maybe it’s a very middle-class thing?

    I don't think that's right - my son lives in a street of "Coronation st" type older houses and they loudly clap - He lives with 2 nurses and they do appreciate it
    Your son lives with 2 nurses? No wonder he claps
    I think the unwoke assumptions in that cancel out to zero.
    hehe well I have never claimed to be woke
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,389
    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1250890408936251392
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    Also worth watching for a view from the front line. Apparently lots of DIY accidents and errrhh sticking things inside themselves.

    https://youtu.be/JrARKkMzBX8
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    This appears to be the site to donate to Cap'n Tom Moore's charity. I think I'll give 'em a few quid, but anyway the NHS figures in my will.

    https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/tomswalkforthenhs
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    More Europe:

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1250891449685639168?s=20
    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1250891725398315008?s=20
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,410
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    It’s odd. Every Thursday I hear about this on here, on WhatsApp, on Facebook.

    Every Thursday my street is as quiet as the cemetery next to it.

    I do live on a council estate. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on it. Maybe it’s a very middle-class thing?

    I don't think that's right - my son lives in a street of "Coronation st" type older houses and they loudly clap - He lives with 2 nurses and they do appreciate it
    I see this Thursday thing go off big time in some proper high unemployment housing estates in Belfast: fireworks, car horns, chiming bells blasting out on speakers I even heard once. All sorts. Dont think its a class conscious activity, at least in this town.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-52312560

    It seems to me that this document misses the point completely, in failing to understand the reasons for the “lockdown”. Which, put simply, are to maximise social distancing, backed by the law where necessary.

    Anyone who practices social distancing whilst not within the confines of their house, should not be falling foul of the law simply by some largely arbitrary interpretation of what constitutes a “reasonable” excuse for being outside.

    Fundamentally, IMO, the question of “reasonableness” should only become an issue where breaches of social distancing are being observed. There is no sensible reason, to take the example quoted, for buying paint and brushes to be a breach of the law, but buying materials to fix a fence should not. There should be no issue with sitting on a park bench, should doing so result in no social distancing breach. We are not required by the law to be prisoners in our homes. We are required to take sensible precautions when leaving them. That is not the situation suggested by the police “guidance” which seems to focus on Govt wording, rather than Govt purpose/intent.

    But this has been discussed before....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    After photo of nigella looking hot...better offset with...

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1250809334289833986?s=19
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Has anybody seen chris grayling recently?

    https://twitter.com/JesseLehrich/status/1250595619397386245?s=09

    No, they have plenty of equally competent folks over there.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1250890408936251392

    But you can Go To Jail for driving to the Lake District.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,602
    Toms said:

    This appears to be the site to donate to Cap'n Tom Moore's charity. I think I'll give 'em a few quid, but anyway the NHS figures in my will.

    https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/tomswalkforthenhs

    The numbers are increasing at an incredible rate each time you look at the page.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Really?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1250822193509994497?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    It’s odd. Every Thursday I hear about this on here, on WhatsApp, on Facebook.

    Every Thursday my street is as quiet as the cemetery next to it.

    I do live on a council estate. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on it. Maybe it’s a very middle-class thing?

    I don't think that's right - my son lives in a street of "Coronation st" type older houses and they loudly clap - He lives with 2 nurses and they do appreciate it
    Your son lives with 2 nurses? No wonder he claps
    I think the unwoke assumptions in that cancel out to zero.
    hehe well I have never claimed to be woke
    Every house out tonight in my middle england street. Mainly clapping but I did my bit on the old pans.

    Lots of chat (at a distance) about another three weeks. I detect an acceptance of that, but suspect pushing it beyond into another month will be challenging.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    CarlottaVance said:

    Really?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1250822193509994497?s=20

    I wonder at what point the Guardian will think her tin foil hattery has gone too far and damaging their brand?
  • glwglw Posts: 10,470
    CarlottaVance said:

    Really?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1250822193509994497?s=20

    What a fucking idiot.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    CarlottaVance said:

    More Europe:

    So that's where we've been going wrong all these years. :o
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    rottenborough said:

    Pagan2 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    It’s odd. Every Thursday I hear about this on here, on WhatsApp, on Facebook.

    Every Thursday my street is as quiet as the cemetery next to it.

    I do live on a council estate. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on it. Maybe it’s a very middle-class thing?

    I don't think that's right - my son lives in a street of "Coronation st" type older houses and they loudly clap - He lives with 2 nurses and they do appreciate it
    Your son lives with 2 nurses? No wonder he claps
    I think the unwoke assumptions in that cancel out to zero.
    hehe well I have never claimed to be woke
    Every house out tonight in my middle england street. Mainly clapping but I did my bit on the old pans.

    Lots of chat (at a distance) about another three weeks. I detect an acceptance of that, but suspect pushing it beyond into another month will be challenging.
    Did you tell them that more than likely all social norms will still be banned for the next 6 months? If Germany arent opening the restaurants and bars for the next 5 months, no chance we will be down the boozer before that (unless we really want that 2nd wave before the winter).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    CarlottaVance said:

    More Europe:

    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1250891449685639168?s=20
    https://twitter.com/MsHelicat/status/1250891725398315008?s=20

    They pull out the 'EU is at risk' stuff too often
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Really?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1250822193509994497?s=20

    I wonder at what point the Guardian will think her tin foil hattery has gone too far and damaging their brand?
    I suspect that she still mostly upsets the 'right people' buys a lit of leeway.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,529
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Trump is taking a hell of an obvious gamble pushing the US toward reopening on 1 May

    Trump needs the economy to recover by November.
    If it’s the virus that recovers first, he is done.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,713
    IanB2 said:

    Trump is taking a hell of an obvious gamble pushing the US toward reopening on 1 May

    He would be, if he was in charge of a centralised country like the UK. But he isn't. The majority of Governors will not go along with it and so there won't be the negative consequence of a rapid resurgence in deaths. And Trump is then able to blame the Governors for the economic damage - he wanted to open the economy, not his fault.

    We wait to see whether enough voters will buy that crap, but I can't rule it out.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    I know what they mean, but there's a reason it was hard for ministers to be quizzed this way for most of this period.

    The House of Commons Commission said ministers will be quizzed via Zoom for the first time in the House's 700-year history.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52299514
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Really?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1250822193509994497?s=20

    I wonder at what point the Guardian will think her tin foil hattery has gone too far and damaging their brand?
    Carole seems to be comparing with the White House, where the press core are in their seats.

    It may have escaped her notice that Trump is POTUS and basically doesn't believe the plague should effect any aspect of life.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    IanB2 said:

    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Trump is taking a hell of an obvious gamble pushing the US toward reopening on 1 May

    Trump needs the economy to recover by November.
    If it’s the virus that recovers first, he is done.
    Does he not end up with best of both worlds? Governors and mayors will keep the lockdown, but he gets to say every night that effectively, in the main, the lockdown is over.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1250796428756164608?s=20
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,378
    rottenborough said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Really?

    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1250822193509994497?s=20

    I wonder at what point the Guardian will think her tin foil hattery has gone too far and damaging their brand?
    Carole seems to be comparing with the White House, where the press core are in their seats.

    It may have escaped her notice that Trump is POTUS and basically doesn't believe the plague should effect any aspect of life.
    Doesn't everyone who gets in the room have to live in isolation and get transported to and from the hige house every day? I thought those were the terms of coming into close contact with Trump.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,602
    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    LostPassword said:

    IanB2 said:

    Trump is taking a hell of an obvious gamble pushing the US toward reopening on 1 May

    He would be, if he was in charge of a centralised country like the UK. But he isn't. The majority of Governors will not go along with it and so there won't be the negative consequence of a rapid resurgence in deaths. And Trump is then able to blame the Governors for the economic damage - he wanted to open the economy, not his fault.

    We wait to see whether enough voters will buy that crap, but I can't rule it out.
    This.

    Afraid I am of the view that the voters will buy the crap at least in the swing states.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    edited April 2020
    Seeing pictures of the clap for carers, its a lovely thing, but is it just me but there seems to be a lot of people often standing very close to one another.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    Andy_JS said:

    Toms said:

    This appears to be the site to donate to Cap'n Tom Moore's charity. I think I'll give 'em a few quid, but anyway the NHS figures in my will.

    https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/tomswalkforthenhs

    The numbers are increasing at an incredible rate each time you look at the page.
    Social media.

    This could not have happened ten or maybe fifteen years ago.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    .
    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    I think that's a product of the way the US defines cities. Las Vegas only has 600k in the city proper, but over 2 million in the metro area.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    edited April 2020
    This is an extremely good analysis of the international PPE supply chain:

    Why There Aren't Enough Masks, and How to Get More
    https://www.flexport.com/blog/why-there-arent-enough-masks-and-how-to-get-more/

    ... One PPE vendor that we know did $80M in revenue last year, and currently has $2B or more worth of demand for his products. They would need a 50% down payment to lock in this capacity. Even in normally functioning credit markets, this would probably be unrealistic for a business of their scale to secure. There is a lot of risk in the production process when scaling manufacturing capacity 20x. And banks have difficulty quantifying this risk, since they are not manufacturing or quality control experts. In the midst of a pandemic that has spooked lenders, getting this degree of financing is likely impossible without some form of government guarantee....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    RobD said:

    .

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    I think that's a product of the way the US defines cities. Las Vegas only has 600k in the city proper, but over 2 million in the metro area.
    Was going to say, San Francisco is officially less than 1 million..but the bay area is more than that and no "gap" between those different areas.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Seeing pictures of the clap for carers, its a lovely thing, but is it just me but there seems to be a lot of people often standing very close to one another.

    It's another Dom plot to engineer Herd Immunity :wink:
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    rottenborough said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Seeing pictures of the clap for carers, its a lovely thing, but is it just me but there seems to be a lot of people often standing very close to one another.

    It's another Dom plot to engineer Herd Immunity :wink:
    nudge unit at work.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    Nigelb said:

    This is an extremely good analysis of the international PPE supply chain:

    Why There Aren't Enough Masks, and How to Get More
    https://www.flexport.com/blog/why-there-arent-enough-masks-and-how-to-get-more/

    ... One PPE vendor that we know did $80M in revenue last year, and currently has $2B or more worth of demand for his products. They would need a 50% down payment to lock in this capacity. Even in normally functioning credit markets, this would probably be unrealistic for a business of their scale to secure. There is a lot of risk in the production process when scaling manufacturing capacity 20x. And banks have difficulty quantifying this risk, since they are not manufacturing or quality control experts. In the midst of a pandemic that has spooked lenders, getting this degree of financing is likely impossible without some form of government guarantee....

    "China is the only place in the world that can scale manufacturing as fast as we need right now. Our sources estimate the production capacity of Chinese PPE at 160M units per day. Of that, we believe 80M is consumed domestically and some is reserved for the Chinese national stockpile.

    The US Department of Health and Human Services estimates that, throughout the pandemic, the country’s healthcare system will require 3.5 billion units of PPE."
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,602
    edited April 2020
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    I think that's a product of the way the US defines cities. Las Vegas only has 600k in the city proper, but over 2 million in the metro area.
    True, although if you compare US "urban areas" to the West Midlands conurbation you still only get 15 areas in the US.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_urban_areas
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Midlands_(county)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    If you have kids and want their maths to improve. This guy is giving free lectures on high school maths. He more advanced stuff is very good, so i imagine it will be worthwhile.

    https://youtu.be/ppWPuXsnf1Q
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    RobD said:

    rottenborough said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Seeing pictures of the clap for carers, its a lovely thing, but is it just me but there seems to be a lot of people often standing very close to one another.

    It's another Dom plot to engineer Herd Immunity :wink:
    nudge unit at work.
    If you are nudging you are too close! :smiley:
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    It’s an uninteresting fact given that you are using local authority boundaries - utterly meaningless. Is Leeds bigger than Manchester?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,602
    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Reminds me of when Jason Donovan sued someone in the 1990s who'd accused him of being gay.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    The only reason I have ever heard of Carol C is because I frequent PB. Lots of people on here seem strangely fond/obsessed with her.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    edited April 2020
    I see McDonnell is causing trouble. We shouldn't talk about anything but coronavirus, but i am now going to talk for 15 mins on betrayal from within the Labour Party and how we were right, we won the argument etc etc etc.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    Anabobazina said:

    The only reason I have ever heard of Carol C is because I frequent PB. Lots of people on here seem strangely fond/obsessed with her.

    She's just so entertaining.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,602
    edited April 2020
    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    It’s an uninteresting fact given that you are using local authority boundaries - utterly meaningless. Is Leeds bigger than Manchester?
    It's still only 15 if you look at US urban areas vs the West Midlands conurbation which is comparing like with like as much as possible.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,629
    edited April 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    It’s an uninteresting fact given that you are using local authority boundaries - utterly meaningless. Is Leeds bigger than Manchester?
    It's still only 15 areas if you look at urban areas vs the West Midlands conurbation which is comparing like with like as much as possible.
    But you've now joined two cities in England, and are comparing to single cities in the US.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    The only reason I have ever heard of Carol C is because I frequent PB. Lots of people on here seem strangely fond/obsessed with her.
    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    Saying it’s your opinion doesn’t avoid libel. There’s an exception on fair comment and ‘common abuse’ - e.g. you can call someone a dickhead but not a liar.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    No longer a lawyer, and when I was I didn't do defamation. My understanding is, it is a good defence to show that what you said is substantially true, BUT the burden of proof is on you to show it's true. Secondly, opinions are fine if they really are opinions. "X is not a good actor" is fine "X is a child molester" is not, and you can't convert it to an opinion by saying "In my opinion X is a child molester."
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I see McDonnell is causing trouble. We shouldn't talk about anything but coronavirus, but i am now going to talk for 15 mins on betrayal from within the Labour Party and how we were right, we won the argument etc etc etc.

    Stop giving the Corbynites oxygen Francis! They are water under the bridge. Dirty water, yes, but under the bridge.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Andy_JS said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    It’s an uninteresting fact given that you are using local authority boundaries - utterly meaningless. Is Leeds bigger than Manchester?
    It's still only 15 if you look at US urban areas vs the West Midlands conurbation which is comparing like with like as much as possible.
    Yes, that’s true. Most American cities are underwhelming - in both size and content. Some of those in the top ten are unimaginably dull places.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    Anabobazina said:

    The only reason I have ever heard of Carol C is because I frequent PB. Lots of people on here seem strangely fond/obsessed with her.

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    Saying it’s your opinion doesn’t avoid libel. There’s an exception on fair comment and ‘common abuse’ - e.g. you can call someone a dickhead but not a liar.
    see and you expect us lay people to understand it, where does observing someone stumbling around looking drunk cross over to the point where we can say in my opinion he is an alcoholic....you say I am being daft however I am expressing an opinion a lot of perfectly reasonable people would come to. Where is the line where I cant say x and I can say x
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,358
    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    It’s an uninteresting fact given that you are using local authority boundaries - utterly meaningless. Is Leeds bigger than Manchester?
    It's still only 15 if you look at US urban areas vs the West Midlands conurbation which is comparing like with like as much as possible.
    Yes, that’s true. Most American cities are underwhelming - in both size and content. Some of those in the top ten are unimaginably dull places.
    There's New York, San Fancisco, New Orleans and all the rest are Cincinatti.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    No longer a lawyer, and when I was I didn't do defamation. My understanding is, it is a good defence to show that what you said is substantially true, BUT the burden of proof is on you to show it's true. Secondly, opinions are fine if they really are opinions. "X is not a good actor" is fine "X is a child molester" is not, and you can't convert it to an opinion by saying "In my opinion X is a child molester."
    Correct. Nor is “in my opinion X is an alcoholic” an avoidance of libel.

    Your actor example is covered under fair comment in media law.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1250887617966727189?s=21
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    It’s an uninteresting fact given that you are using local authority boundaries - utterly meaningless. Is Leeds bigger than Manchester?
    It's still only 15 areas if you look at urban areas vs the West Midlands conurbation which is comparing like with like as much as possible.
    But you've now joined two cities in England, and are comparing to single cities in the US.
    Dallas-Fort Worth

    Minneapolis-St Paul

    San Francisco-Oakland

    ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,602
    From the New York Times today:

    "U.K. Paid $20 Million for New Coronavirus Tests. They Didn’t Work.
    Facing a global scramble for materials, British officials bought millions of unproven kits from China in a gamble that became an embarrassment."

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/world/middleeast/coronavirus-antibody-test-uk.html
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    Anabobazina said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    No longer a lawyer, and when I was I didn't do defamation. My understanding is, it is a good defence to show that what you said is substantially true, BUT the burden of proof is on you to show it's true. Secondly, opinions are fine if they really are opinions. "X is not a good actor" is fine "X is a child molester" is not, and you can't convert it to an opinion by saying "In my opinion X is a child molester."
    Correct. Nor is “in my opinion X is an alcoholic” an avoidance of libel.

    Your actor example is covered under fair comment in media law.
    Again my question how does your average lay person tell the difference between fair comment and libellious....you said I was being stupid so explain it to me in laymans terms I am willing to be educated
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    ydoethur said:

    It’s odd. Every Thursday I hear about this on here, on WhatsApp, on Facebook.

    Every Thursday my street is as quiet as the cemetery next to it.

    I do live on a council estate. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on it. Maybe it’s a very middle-class thing?

    Nope, I live in a very WWC area of SW London and every street is out in force every Thursday.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    My son is starting work at the Nightingale Hospital tomorrow. Not in a medical capacity but as clerical support staff. Still, doing his bit. Proud of him - and, I confess, a little bit anxious.

    Other son is also applying.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Foxy said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    It’s an uninteresting fact given that you are using local authority boundaries - utterly meaningless. Is Leeds bigger than Manchester?
    It's still only 15 if you look at US urban areas vs the West Midlands conurbation which is comparing like with like as much as possible.
    Yes, that’s true. Most American cities are underwhelming - in both size and content. Some of those in the top ten are unimaginably dull places.
    There's New York, San Fancisco, New Orleans and all the rest are Cincinatti.
    Whereas we have London, and, um...Edinburgh, Glasgow and Liverpool.

    All the rest are Slough.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,228
    Nigelb said:

    This is an extremely good analysis of the international PPE supply chain:

    Why There Aren't Enough Masks, and How to Get More
    https://www.flexport.com/blog/why-there-arent-enough-masks-and-how-to-get-more/

    ... One PPE vendor that we know did $80M in revenue last year, and currently has $2B or more worth of demand for his products. They would need a 50% down payment to lock in this capacity. Even in normally functioning credit markets, this would probably be unrealistic for a business of their scale to secure. There is a lot of risk in the production process when scaling manufacturing capacity 20x. And banks have difficulty quantifying this risk, since they are not manufacturing or quality control experts. In the midst of a pandemic that has spooked lenders, getting this degree of financing is likely impossible without some form of government guarantee....

    The CEO of a German ventilator manufacturer that also makes PPE was saying the problem with ramping up PPE production is that it can only realistically be made with full automation. Once you run the machines 24 hours a day you have no other way of increasing production. Ventilators, which are relatively labour intensive to produce, are more amenable to surge production.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    The only reason I have ever heard of Carol C is because I frequent PB. Lots of people on here seem strangely fond/obsessed with her.

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    Saying it’s your opinion doesn’t avoid libel. There’s an exception on fair comment and ‘common abuse’ - e.g. you can call someone a dickhead but not a liar.
    see and you expect us lay people to understand it, where does observing someone stumbling around looking drunk cross over to the point where we can say in my opinion he is an alcoholic....you say I am being daft however I am expressing an opinion a lot of perfectly reasonable people would come to. Where is the line where I cant say x and I can say x
    I’ve just explained it to you.

    I can call you a rum sort but not a criminal.

    Do you grasp the difference?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    https://twitter.com/janemerrick23/status/1250859724322615300
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    Anabobazina said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    The only reason I have ever heard of Carol C is because I frequent PB. Lots of people on here seem strangely fond/obsessed with her.

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    Saying it’s your opinion doesn’t avoid libel. There’s an exception on fair comment and ‘common abuse’ - e.g. you can call someone a dickhead but not a liar.
    see and you expect us lay people to understand it, where does observing someone stumbling around looking drunk cross over to the point where we can say in my opinion he is an alcoholic....you say I am being daft however I am expressing an opinion a lot of perfectly reasonable people would come to. Where is the line where I cant say x and I can say x
    I’ve just explained it to you.

    I can call you a rum sort but not a criminal.

    Do you grasp the difference?
    So if my friend drinks a bottle of rum every night and I suggest he might be an alcoholic that is libellious as I can't prove he is
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    ydoethur said:

    It’s odd. Every Thursday I hear about this on here, on WhatsApp, on Facebook.

    Every Thursday my street is as quiet as the cemetery next to it.

    I do live on a council estate. I don’t know whether that has any bearing on it. Maybe it’s a very middle-class thing?

    we have a Spanish couple in my block of flats that clap at 2000 every night :/
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    edited April 2020
    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    No longer a lawyer, and when I was I didn't do defamation. My understanding is, it is a good defence to show that what you said is substantially true, BUT the burden of proof is on you to show it's true. Secondly, opinions are fine if they really are opinions. "X is not a good actor" is fine "X is a child molester" is not, and you can't convert it to an opinion by saying "In my opinion X is a child molester."
    Correct. Nor is “in my opinion X is an alcoholic” an avoidance of libel.

    Your actor example is covered under fair comment in media law.
    Again my question how does your average lay person tell the difference between fair comment and libellious....you said I was being stupid so explain it to me in laymans terms I am willing to be educated
    Gardenwalker said:

    Foxy said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    It’s an uninteresting fact given that you are using local authority boundaries - utterly meaningless. Is Leeds bigger than Manchester?
    It's still only 15 if you look at US urban areas vs the West Midlands conurbation which is comparing like with like as much as possible.
    Yes, that’s true. Most American cities are underwhelming - in both size and content. Some of those in the top ten are unimaginably dull places.
    There's New York, San Fancisco, New Orleans and all the rest are Cincinatti.
    Whereas we have London, and, um...Edinburgh, Glasgow and Liverpool.

    All the rest are Slough.
    Manchester, Bristol, Newcastle, Nottingham, Leeds - all very characterful big cities
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,197
    I think i have been to every major US city and i can't say i fell in love with any. Certainly not compared to Vancouver or Toronto in Canada.

    I dont care for NYC. Prefer Boston. Downtown Chicago is cool. San Francisco is a dump. Seattle isnt much better. LA, i would prefer to spend a week in Staines. As a former professional gambler, I actually skipped tournaments rather than spend too much time in Las Vegas.

    It is what is outside the cities that is much more spectacular. Yosemite, yellowstone, the great lakes, etc etc etc etc etc
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    edited April 2020
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is an extremely good analysis of the international PPE supply chain:

    Why There Aren't Enough Masks, and How to Get More
    https://www.flexport.com/blog/why-there-arent-enough-masks-and-how-to-get-more/

    ... One PPE vendor that we know did $80M in revenue last year, and currently has $2B or more worth of demand for his products. They would need a 50% down payment to lock in this capacity. Even in normally functioning credit markets, this would probably be unrealistic for a business of their scale to secure. There is a lot of risk in the production process when scaling manufacturing capacity 20x. And banks have difficulty quantifying this risk, since they are not manufacturing or quality control experts. In the midst of a pandemic that has spooked lenders, getting this degree of financing is likely impossible without some form of government guarantee....

    The CEO of a German ventilator manufacturer that also makes PPE was saying the problem with ramping up PPE production is that it can only realistically be made with full automation. Once you run the machines 24 hours a day you have no other way of increasing production. Ventilators, which are relatively labour intensive to produce, are more amenable to surge production.
    You build a new line. Or ten.
    Which is where “there is a lot of risk in scaling” comes in.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    edited April 2020
    Anabobazina said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    The only reason I have ever heard of Carol C is because I frequent PB. Lots of people on here seem strangely fond/obsessed with her.

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    Saying it’s your opinion doesn’t avoid libel. There’s an exception on fair comment and ‘common abuse’ - e.g. you can call someone a dickhead but not a liar.
    see and you expect us lay people to understand it, where does observing someone stumbling around looking drunk cross over to the point where we can say in my opinion he is an alcoholic....you say I am being daft however I am expressing an opinion a lot of perfectly reasonable people would come to. Where is the line where I cant say x and I can say x
    I’ve just explained it to you.

    I can call you a rum sort but not a criminal.

    Do you grasp the difference?
    You are failing to understand my point....most normal people don't work like that they call it as they see it. you drink a bottle of spirits a night we will call you an alcoholic the fact its not accurate as we can't prove it is neither here nor there. For most of us we don't really know what we can get in trouble saying because we don't worry about it as this law really doesn't apply to us as we aren't like to get sued as there is no point.

    You cannot give me even now a defining line between x is an alcoholic being fair use and x is an alcoholic being libellious. Go on tell me where I can say a and where I can get sued
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,908
    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    The only reason I have ever heard of Carol C is because I frequent PB. Lots of people on here seem strangely fond/obsessed with her.

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    Saying it’s your opinion doesn’t avoid libel. There’s an exception on fair comment and ‘common abuse’ - e.g. you can call someone a dickhead but not a liar.
    see and you expect us lay people to understand it, where does observing someone stumbling around looking drunk cross over to the point where we can say in my opinion he is an alcoholic....you say I am being daft however I am expressing an opinion a lot of perfectly reasonable people would come to. Where is the line where I cant say x and I can say x
    Well it's quite simple. Most of us have been drunk. I have on occasion wondered how I got home. I have certainly stumbled around. I'm not an alcoholic though. being an alcoholic is completely different to liking a drink and sometimes doing it to excess.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Loony tunes is up:

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/live/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wh
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1250907815943774209
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    The only reason I have ever heard of Carol C is because I frequent PB. Lots of people on here seem strangely fond/obsessed with her.

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    Saying it’s your opinion doesn’t avoid libel. There’s an exception on fair comment and ‘common abuse’ - e.g. you can call someone a dickhead but not a liar.
    see and you expect us lay people to understand it, where does observing someone stumbling around looking drunk cross over to the point where we can say in my opinion he is an alcoholic....you say I am being daft however I am expressing an opinion a lot of perfectly reasonable people would come to. Where is the line where I cant say x and I can say x
    I’ve just explained it to you.

    I can call you a rum sort but not a criminal.

    Do you grasp the difference?
    You are failing to understand my point....most normal people don't work like that they call it as they see it. you drink a bottle of spirits a night we will call you an alcoholic the fact its not accurate as we can't prove it is neither here nor there. For most of us we don't really know what we can get in trouble saying because we don't worry about it as this law really doesn't apply to us as we aren't like to get sued as there is no point.

    You cannot give me even now a defining line between x is an alcoholic being fair use and x is an alcoholic being libellious. Go on tell me where I can say a and where I can get sued
    When in other words can I say x is an alcoholic and be fair use
    when can I say x is an alcoholic and get sued
    draw that line for me with this specific example
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,838
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Trump is taking a hell of an obvious gamble pushing the US toward reopening on 1 May

    Trump needs the economy to recover by November.
    The risk is that the US has a second serious wave while the rest of the world largely has it under control.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    I think i have been to every major US city and i can't say i fell in love with any. Certainly not compared to Vancouver or Toronto in Canada.

    I dont care for NYC. Prefer Boston. Downtown Chicago is cool. San Francisco is a dump. Seattle isnt much better. LA, i would prefer to spend a week in Staines. As a former professional gambler, I actually skipped tournaments rather than spend too much time in Las Vegas.

    It is what is outside the cities that is much more spectacular. Yosemite, yellowstone, the great lakes, etc etc etc etc etc

    I was massively underwhelmed by NY - London is infinitely better - although I visited in a heatwave so need to go again as the oppressive weather killed it.

    The national parks and wildernesses in the States are indeed its jewels. I’ve not seen as much as you but can confirm that the Shenandoah is sublime, and the Colorado Rockies awe-inspiring.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,435
    Anabobazina said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    No longer a lawyer, and when I was I didn't do defamation. My understanding is, it is a good defence to show that what you said is substantially true, BUT the burden of proof is on you to show it's true. Secondly, opinions are fine if they really are opinions. "X is not a good actor" is fine "X is a child molester" is not, and you can't convert it to an opinion by saying "In my opinion X is a child molester."
    Correct. Nor is “in my opinion X is an alcoholic” an avoidance of libel.

    Your actor example is covered under fair comment in media law.
    Again my question how does your average lay person tell the difference between fair comment and libellious....you said I was being stupid so explain it to me in laymans terms I am willing to be educated
    Gardenwalker said:

    Foxy said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    It’s an uninteresting fact given that you are using local authority boundaries - utterly meaningless. Is Leeds bigger than Manchester?
    It's still only 15 if you look at US urban areas vs the West Midlands conurbation which is comparing like with like as much as possible.
    Yes, that’s true. Most American cities are underwhelming - in both size and content. Some of those in the top ten are unimaginably dull places.
    There's New York, San Fancisco, New Orleans and all the rest are Cincinatti.
    Whereas we have London, and, um...Edinburgh, Glasgow and Liverpool.

    All the rest are Slough.
    Manchester, Bristol, Newcastle, Nottingham, Leeds - all very characterful big cities
    Leeds is ugly and dull.

    Never been to Nottingham, but I haven’t heard good things.

    I could give you the rest, but let’s be honest, are they any match for Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,668
    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    No longer a lawyer, and when I was I didn't do defamation. My understanding is, it is a good defence to show that what you said is substantially true, BUT the burden of proof is on you to show it's true. Secondly, opinions are fine if they really are opinions. "X is not a good actor" is fine "X is a child molester" is not, and you can't convert it to an opinion by saying "In my opinion X is a child molester."
    Correct. Nor is “in my opinion X is an alcoholic” an avoidance of libel.

    Your actor example is covered under fair comment in media law.
    Again my question how does your average lay person tell the difference between fair comment and libellious....you said I was being stupid so explain it to me in laymans terms I am willing to be educated
    Try to treat other people as you yourself might wish to be treated.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    how bad is the shadow minister on Newsnight? barely literate
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303
    Gardenwalker said:

    Foxy said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting fact is that the US only has 9 cities larger than Birmingham.

    It’s an uninteresting fact given that you are using local authority boundaries - utterly meaningless. Is Leeds bigger than Manchester?
    It's still only 15 if you look at US urban areas vs the West Midlands conurbation which is comparing like with like as much as possible.
    Yes, that’s true. Most American cities are underwhelming - in both size and content. Some of those in the top ten are unimaginably dull places.
    There's New York, San Fancisco, New Orleans and all the rest are Cincinatti.
    Whereas we have London, and, um...Edinburgh, Glasgow and Liverpool.

    All the rest are Slough.
    Oxford? Cambridge? Chester? York? Cirencester? There are lots of great cities.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    CarlottaVance said:

    Loony tunes is up:

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/live/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=wh

    Looks like Trump is going for it. Open, open, open and open again.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795
    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    The only reason I have ever heard of Carol C is because I frequent PB. Lots of people on here seem strangely fond/obsessed with her.

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    Saying it’s your opinion doesn’t avoid libel. There’s an exception on fair comment and ‘common abuse’ - e.g. you can call someone a dickhead but not a liar.
    see and you expect us lay people to understand it, where does observing someone stumbling around looking drunk cross over to the point where we can say in my opinion he is an alcoholic....you say I am being daft however I am expressing an opinion a lot of perfectly reasonable people would come to. Where is the line where I cant say x and I can say x
    I’ve just explained it to you.

    I can call you a rum sort but not a criminal.

    Do you grasp the difference?
    So if my friend drinks a bottle of rum every night and I suggest he might be an alcoholic that is libellious as I can't prove he is
    Truth is no particular defence! You would need to be able to prove it in court. Hence why most sensible editors remove any such accusation.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,226
    JohnLilburne said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    The only reason I have ever heard of Carol C is because I frequent PB. Lots of people on here seem strangely fond/obsessed with her.

    Pagan2 said:

    Anabobazina said:

    Utter garbage from Pagan on PT regarding libel law. It’s relatively simple: if you accuse someone of something that could damage their reputation among right-thinking people, you had better be able to prove it. So, yes, accusing someone of being an alcoholic would be libellous unless you could prove it. They might not sue, but that’s a different matter.

    Sorry not apologising for not understanding it as from what I hear it being true in this country isn't a defence against it being libellious. Also why i made sure to say that in my opinion he was rather than state it as a fact. Where did I misunderstand?
    Saying it’s your opinion doesn’t avoid libel. There’s an exception on fair comment and ‘common abuse’ - e.g. you can call someone a dickhead but not a liar.
    see and you expect us lay people to understand it, where does observing someone stumbling around looking drunk cross over to the point where we can say in my opinion he is an alcoholic....you say I am being daft however I am expressing an opinion a lot of perfectly reasonable people would come to. Where is the line where I cant say x and I can say x
    Well it's quite simple. Most of us have been drunk. I have on occasion wondered how I got home. I have certainly stumbled around. I'm not an alcoholic though. being an alcoholic is completely different to liking a drink and sometimes doing it to excess.
    We all have I suspect. What I am getting that is there seems to be some line drawn where you can say

    x is an alcoholic and be fair use
    x is an alcoholic and be sued

    I am asking where the line is as a lay person because damned if I can work it out and I suspect what it amounts to is black at one end, white at the other and a huge grey area in the middle. The grey area is the problem because without legal training you really have no idea if you are veering into the grey
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,076
    Prolonged lockdown will cause more trouble than it is worth says Trump basically.

This discussion has been closed.

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