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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The nation rallies to Boris but who’ll now make the critical d

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The nation rallies to Boris but who’ll now make the critical decisions?

Today’s front pages very much sum up the the mood of the nation and the political issues created by the continued hospitalisation of the prime minister who has been in intensive care now for a second night. All this comes at the height of the biggest peacetime emergency that the UK has seen in generations.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • engineerengineer Posts: 9
    A first?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    edited April 2020
    kle4 said:

    I dont know that some of the papers do sum up the mood of the nation. The message on the Raab Boris situation has been very clear and I think a lot of the wilder speculation on problems ignores the reality of Cabinet government and any issue of authority or mandate are ones our system deliberately makes unimportant in an emergency situation. There isnt a need for a temporary PM because our system allows someone to act as such without formal appointment as such. Issues will only start to emerge should, gods forbid, Boris takes a turn for the worst.

    Which is not to say speculation on potential concerns is therefore irrelevant, but talk of power vacuums or paralysis of government or confusion seems very premature to me when the situation has been made very clear - cabinet government continues and we have been told who will coordinate it in the PMs absence - and there is not a need to resolve a situation which has not arisen.

    It is rather a fuss about nothing. Johnson has had very little to decide on in recent weeks. Hancock and CMO/CSO have done the health stuff, Sunak the economic stuff. Since the lockdown started there hasn't been a great deal for the PM to do.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    The USA really is a banana republic at times.

    https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1247604211262636033?s=09
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    I agree with Mike and I think there is unease about the situation. The press are correct to be expressing the mood. Tim Shipman writing in The Sunday Times before Boris was admitted referred to all the Cabinet in-fighting. I know a lot of people who are rooting for Boris not just because they're rooting for Boris but because they don't think anyone else is good enough to lead the country from his party.

    The other thing I'm picking up is that senior figures should be drafted in, including from other parties.

    At the moment we're winging it, which is clearly unsatisfactory. It's based on the idea that Boris may only spend 5-7 days in ICU. There are a huge number of key decisions to make in the coming days including the big one: when to ease lockdown.

    Anecdotally, judging by the behaviour I'm witnessing I would say that a lot of Britons are already easing the lockdown.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,932
    edited April 2020
    The first thing we do, let's kill all the voters.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    On topic. Can Raab make a decision about PB have opened a cafe in the middle of the lockdown?
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    kle4 said:

    I dont know that some of the papers do sum up the mood of the nation. The message on the Raab Boris situation has been very clear and I think a lot of the wilder speculation on problems ignores the reality of Cabinet government and any issue of authority or mandate are ones our system deliberately makes unimportant in an emergency situation. There isnt a need for a temporary PM because our system allows someone to act as such without formal appointment as such. Issues will only start to emerge should, gods forbid, Boris takes a turn for the worst.

    Which is not to say speculation on potential concerns is therefore irrelevant, but talk of power vacuums or paralysis of government or confusion seems very premature to me when the situation has been made very clear - cabinet government continues and we have been told who will coordinate it in the PMs absence - and there is not a need to resolve a situation which has not arisen.

    ‘I dont know that some of the papers do sum up the mood of the nation.”

    The papers emphatically do sum up the mood of the Nation!

    “The health of Boris is the health of the nation, we need you Prime minister.” Alison Pearson Daily Telegraph.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    I dont know that some of the papers do sum up the mood of the nation. The message on the Raab Boris situation has been very clear and I think a lot of the wilder speculation on problems ignores the reality of Cabinet government and any issue of authority or mandate are ones our system deliberately makes unimportant in an emergency situation. There isnt a need for a temporary PM because our system allows someone to act as such without formal appointment as such. Issues will only start to emerge should, gods forbid, Boris takes a turn for the worst.

    Which is not to say speculation on potential concerns is therefore irrelevant, but talk of power vacuums or paralysis of government or confusion seems very premature to me when the situation has been made very clear - cabinet government continues and we have been told who will coordinate it in the PMs absence - and there is not a need to resolve a situation which has not arisen.

    It is rather a fuss about nothing. Johnson has had very little to decide on in recent weeks. Hancock and CMO/CSO have done the health stuff, Sunak the economic stuff. Since the lockdown started there hasn't been a great deal for the PM to do.
    He has one job, which is to underline the seriousness of the situation and lead the effort of getting everyone to follow the restrictions. After a shaky start, there is no doubt that he’s doing that now...
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    On topic. We know Black Death travelled on fleas. We know at least one tiger has corona virus. Can Raab make a decision about ramping up Tiger Testing?

    perhaps the chief medical eggheads can tell us if Germany have tested all their tigers yet?
    I mean if the scientist is going to say that whilst stood next to the acting Prime Minister, what’s the thick of it behind the scenes scientists having with this governments equivalent of Alistair Campbell?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    Foxy said:


    It is rather a fuss about nothing. Johnson has had very little to decide on in recent weeks. Hancock and CMO/CSO have done the health stuff, Sunak the economic stuff. Since the lockdown started there hasn't been a great deal for the PM to do.

    It didn't work very well though, did it? This isn't just a medical problem - the whole response cuts across all kinds of domains and has a huge political dimension. Per the recent Reuters piece medical boffins apparently didn't even consider what they eventually ended up doing until way late into the thing because they just assumed it would be politically unacceptable.

    Going forward you'll need to work out not just when to end the lockdown, but *how* to end it. You can't just go back to what you were doing before or the virus will come back and you'll be back in lockdown again. Some businesses won't be able to reopen, others will need to change how they operate. The whole society needs to be restructured at high speed - nothing on this scale has been done since WW2.

    There are experts and ministers each looking over their own domains but they're connected, especially when it comes to messaging; One thing that's forced Japan back on the defensive is that the government announced that it would be reopening the schools, would probably have been fine on its own, but people took it to mean the crisis was over and they got complacent in a bunch of other unintended ways as well. You need someone in charge.

    Now, I don't know whether or not Johnson would be capable of this kind of leadership if he was healthy, but it's many times harder if everybody has to second-guess what their PM would think about it if he wasn't in intensive care.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    edited April 2020
    During the night I see that the US got to 400,000 cases, and New York State passed Spain. Were it a country, New York would now be second in the world (to the US).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    An Antarctic cruise that left Australia on 15 March and now 60% of the passengers are virus positive:

    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/07/americas/greg-mortimer-cruise-ship-coronavirus-intl-hnk/index.html
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Good to see HYUFD doing his bit last night.
    https://twitter.com/kevinbasham/status/1247623428800208897?s=21
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    edited April 2020
    Difficult to believe people are wittering about decisions needed to end the lockdown, when hospital admissions haven't even peaked yet. Seems more likely to me that things may still need to be tightened up in some respects. People go on and on about Austria - which has had a tiny number of cases compared with the UK - planning to lift some restrictions in five weeks' time. But the other thing Austria is doing right now is extending compulsory use of masks.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    egg said:


    perhaps the chief medical eggheads can tell us if Germany have tested all their tigers yet?

    "First question....yes, Laura K....."
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    The first thing we do, let's kill all the voters.
    Not quite. You missed the word 'Democratic". Should have been before 'voters'.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    I too getting fed up with the media questions at the daily briefing. Whether it’s BBC, Sky, ITV, The Sun, The Guardian, they all obsessed with the same things

    1. Themselves. Their own self importance.
    2. Making a meal out of politics where there is nothing to eat.
    3. Trying to get experts or public to say something that makes politicians look like liars. (Like a bad running gag through channel 4 news last night).

    could they vary the people they send. Does it have to be political reporters? Can’t they ask questions more relevant to public concerns? Anger at China? Tell Sainsbury’s to pull their finger out? We are worried about the care homes?

    Can this prove the old media days have passed. The new media can do better job if called upon? Raab should say tomorrow “Peston your 6 naff questions masquerading as 1 question and 20 minutes you took to ask them now over. Next, Eagles - PB” and the nation will get a proper question. Because We could build it together, PB brains trust. we could vote on which subject. We can speak for the nation, we are the nation.

    “Do you feel the lies out of China caused your government to be wrong footed at start of the campaign?” That’s to the point isn’t it?

    “Care home staff have been left feeling like second class, can you detail your plans for the coming weeks that will relieve the pressures and difficulty on care homes?” No trying to cleverly trip anyone up, just beautiful opportunity to put the record straight and reassure a lot of people.

    “When you sit down to watch die hard next Christmas, will you have Pineapple on your pizza? It’s a yes or no answer Foreign Secretary.” Well obviously not. The point I am making is it’s wrong at these briefings, with most senior political and SME in this war for those asking the questions to be following hobby horses or stray from what the public want to know, and miss the opportunity by being in some warped competition with other stations and organs, The Pest on pests, for example “supplementary if I may prime minister. We know corona lives in faeces. Fact. We know it’s in tigers cats and dogs. Fact. Can we contract the virus from the feet of flies? Should we now kill all flies, for example?”

    The up it’s own arse and not representing the nation tone of Channel 4 news was bang out of order last night. If the old media can’t represent us, they should step aside.
  • FossFoss Posts: 694
    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    Of course, if Sanders had pulled out by now....

    Wisconsin risks having a huge spread of CV-19 just for Bernie's ego.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    egg said:

    On topic. We know Black Death travelled on fleas. We know at least one tiger has corona virus. Can Raab make a decision about ramping up Tiger Testing?

    perhaps the chief medical eggheads can tell us if Germany have tested all their tigers yet?
    I mean if the scientist is going to say that whilst stood next to the acting Prime Minister, what’s the thick of it behind the scenes scientists having with this governments equivalent of Alistair Campbell?

    https://twitter.com/jamie_blackett/status/1247566812117598215?s=21
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited April 2020
    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    I'm sure they would but it's not good for the country to have critical decisions on hold (they only said the review into it not anything further) while the PM is out of commission.

    No one is looking at it until he returns is the message.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    TGOHF666 said:

    egg said:

    On topic. We know Black Death travelled on fleas. We know at least one tiger has corona virus. Can Raab make a decision about ramping up Tiger Testing?

    perhaps the chief medical eggheads can tell us if Germany have tested all their tigers yet?
    I mean if the scientist is going to say that whilst stood next to the acting Prime Minister, what’s the thick of it behind the scenes scientists having with this governments equivalent of Alistair Campbell?

    https://twitter.com/jamie_blackett/status/1247566812117598215?s=21
    Jamie has a particular agenda. Nothing wrong with that but he does.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    TGOHF666 said:
    He backtracked from this after the news conference and said he was considering it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,932
    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    No, it is yet another balls-up in the spin department. Either Raab can run the show or crucial decisions need to wait for Boris to return. Which is it?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    No, it is yet another balls-up in the spin department. Either Raab can run the show or crucial decisions need to wait for Boris to return. Which is it?
    Tend to agree.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136

    Of course, if Sanders had pulled out by now....

    Wisconsin risks having a huge spread of CV-19 just for Bernie's ego.
    TBF there are also a bunch of Wisconsin things up for election, not least a Supreme Court seat.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 4,199

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    1. Mosquitoes aren't only in Africa.
    2. They don't spread coronavirus.
    3. No idea what your second paragraph is trying to say.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    Mosquitos spread blood, and the virus isn’t in your blood.
  • alednamalednam Posts: 185
    The PM led the public to believe there'd be a review on 13th April. Raab says (a) they're following PM's instructions, (b) there won't be a review on 13th April. It's this that makes it seem there's no real leadership.
    Raab knows, indeed says, that when review time comes there won't be enough data for them to know the extent to which the spread has been slowed. Surely he should put it differently (i) there will be a review just as the PM announced, (ii) unluckily it seems that they'd need much more data than they'll have for the review to lead to any decision about any change of measures.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    No, it is yet another balls-up in the spin department. Either Raab can run the show or crucial decisions need to wait for Boris to return. Which is it?
    Indeed.

    The right-wingers on here will myopically criticise the press and shout down anyone who raises issues as a left-winger. However, there's no getting away from the fact that this is a problem and a pretty serious one at that.

    The country is in its greatest ever peacetime crisis. Leadership of the right kind: consistent, strong, collective is required. With Boris in hospital I can't honestly say that any of those three adjectives currently apply. In their heart-of-hearts I doubt any of our blue-card carrying friends can either. (Except 666, obvs.)
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    TOPPING said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    egg said:

    On topic. We know Black Death travelled on fleas. We know at least one tiger has corona virus. Can Raab make a decision about ramping up Tiger Testing?

    perhaps the chief medical eggheads can tell us if Germany have tested all their tigers yet?
    I mean if the scientist is going to say that whilst stood next to the acting Prime Minister, what’s the thick of it behind the scenes scientists having with this governments equivalent of Alistair Campbell?

    https://twitter.com/jamie_blackett/status/1247566812117598215?s=21
    Jamie has a particular agenda. Nothing wrong with that but he does.
    This tweet was brought to you be the Cheese Marketing Board
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    We don't actually know that anything is dropping, do we? "New cases" bear no relation to new cases - they're just measuring daily variations around 40% in the percentage of positive tests in the 10,000 or so people who are being tested per day. Hospital admissions should tell us something, but how many elderly people are just being left to die at home or in residential care. Ditto the official death rate.

    Everyone is assuming it's going to be OK here, just because it's looking better in Italy and Spain. But that depends on people observing the rules, and how can we just how many people are doing that, from where we are?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    Mr Topping,

    They won't review the lockdown until they have a good reason to do so. Vallance and Whitty both said that.

    BoJo's health and whereabouts don't come into it. They may as well cancel the 5pm press conference because the press will only ask the same old questions and write the headlines they'd already written.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    IanB2 said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    Mosquitos spread blood, and the virus isn’t in your blood.
    Ah but wait ...

    Zeee nasty little critters land on your skin and secrete saliva onto your skin before inserting their little proboscis. They spend many seconds planted on the surface of your body before departing.

    The question I'm interested in is whether in that process they can become a virus vector. My head says, theoretically yes.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Of course, if Sanders had pulled out by now....

    Wisconsin risks having a huge spread of CV-19 just for Bernie's ego.
    The election isn't happening because of the the Primary, it is happening because of statewide races including a supreme Court spot.

    The Governor had suspended election day, the GOP sued to make it happen. Bernie withdrawing would have had no effect.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    edited April 2020

    IanB2 said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    Mosquitos spread blood, and the virus isn’t in your blood.
    Ah but wait ...

    Zeee nasty little critters land on your skin and secrete saliva onto your skin before inserting their little proboscis. They spend many seconds planted on the surface of your body before departing.

    The question I'm interested in is whether in that process they can become a virus vector. My head says, theoretically yes.
    Well the answer is that no-one yet knows. But we do know that mosquitos don't transmit flu between people. So it would appear unlikely that a related virus is any different in this respect.

    Edit/ Although I see that the WHO has gone further and concluded it cannot be transmitted that way
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    IanB2 said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    Mosquitos spread blood, and the virus isn’t in your blood.
    SARS-CoV-2 RNA has been detected in upper and lower respiratory tract specimens, and SARS-CoV-2 virus has been isolated from upper respiratory tract specimens and bronchoalveolar lavage fluid. SARS-CoV-2 RNA has been detected in blood and stool specimens, and SARS-CoV-2 virus has been isolated in cell culture from the stool of some patients, including a patient with pneumonia 15 days after symptom onset. The duration of SARS-CoV-2 RNA detection in upper and lower respiratory tract specimens and in extrapulmonary specimens is not yet known but may be several weeks or longer. Duration of several week or longer has been observed in cases of MERS-CoV or SARS-CoV infection. While viable, infectious SARS-CoV has been isolated from respiratory, blood, urine, and stool specimens, viable, infectious MERS-CoV has only been isolated from respiratory tract specimens. It is not yet known whether other non-respiratory body fluids from an infected person including vomit, urine, breast milk, or semen can contain viable, infectious SARS-CoV-2.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    CD13 said:

    Mr Topping,

    They won't review the lockdown until they have a good reason to do so. Vallance and Whitty both said that.

    BoJo's health and whereabouts don't come into it. They may as well cancel the 5pm press conference because the press will only ask the same old questions and write the headlines they'd already written.

    It is precisely Bojo's health that was given as the reason for the delay of the review.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,960
    Alistair said:

    Of course, if Sanders had pulled out by now....

    Wisconsin risks having a huge spread of CV-19 just for Bernie's ego.
    The election isn't happening because of the the Primary, it is happening because of statewide races including a supreme Court spot.

    The Governor had suspended election day, the GOP sued to make it happen. Bernie withdrawing would have had no effect.
    No effect? Turnout would have at least halved.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    kamski said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    1. Mosquitoes aren't only in Africa.
    2. They don't spread coronavirus.
    3. No idea what your second paragraph is trying to say.
    1. Well aware of that but as I mentioned (sorry you missed it) I was particularly concerned for Africa
    2. Proof please and scientific evidence
    3. How can I put it in more simple terms? We know that Coronavirus sits 'live' on surfaces for a length of time: 24-72 hours. Some reports suggest even up to 2 weeks. Clearly an animal has a surface. If you're infected your virus droplets can reside on animal fur. When the animal wanders off, ergo, it carries it with him or her. In other words, they can be virus vectors without actually catching the virus.

    Fleas, Bubonic Plague, n' all that. See?
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    TOPPING said:

    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    I'm sure they would but it's not good for the country to have critical decisions on hold (they only said the review into it not anything further) while the PM is out of commission.

    No one is looking at it until he returns is the message.
    Only if you take that to be the message.

    From the podium yesterday they said the work was being done on leaving a lockdown but they did not want to talk about anything other than maintaining the strict measures.

    No doubt too simplistic for some and too complex for others.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    That front page would make you vomit
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Flashman (deceased), as someone who eats quite a lot of meat and dairy, that's personally good news.

    Any figures on vegans?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Chris said:

    IanB2 said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    Mosquitos spread blood, and the virus isn’t in your blood.
    SARS-CoV-2 RNA has been detected in upper and lower respiratory tract specimens, and SARS-CoV-2 virus has been isolated from upper respiratory tract specimens and bronchoalveolar lavage fluid. SARS-CoV-2 RNA has been detected in blood and stool specimens, and SARS-CoV-2 virus has been isolated in cell culture from the stool of some patients, including a patient with pneumonia 15 days after symptom onset. The duration of SARS-CoV-2 RNA detection in upper and lower respiratory tract specimens and in extrapulmonary specimens is not yet known but may be several weeks or longer. Duration of several week or longer has been observed in cases of MERS-CoV or SARS-CoV infection. While viable, infectious SARS-CoV has been isolated from respiratory, blood, urine, and stool specimens, viable, infectious MERS-CoV has only been isolated from respiratory tract specimens. It is not yet known whether other non-respiratory body fluids from an infected person including vomit, urine, breast milk, or semen can contain viable, infectious SARS-CoV-2.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html
    Thank you for this. An excellent post.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960



    Clearly an animal has a surface.

    Proof please, and scientific evidence.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    edited April 2020

    kamski said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    1. Mosquitoes aren't only in Africa.
    2. They don't spread coronavirus.
    3. No idea what your second paragraph is trying to say.
    1. Well aware of that but as I mentioned (sorry you missed it) I was particularly concerned for Africa
    2. Proof please and scientific evidence
    3. How can I put it in more simple terms? We know that Coronavirus sits 'live' on surfaces for a length of time: 24-72 hours. Some reports suggest even up to 2 weeks. Clearly an animal has a surface. If you're infected your virus droplets can reside on animal fur. When the animal wanders off, ergo, it carries it with him or her. In other words, they can be virus vectors without actually catching the virus.

    Fleas, Bubonic Plague, n' all that. See?
    You're showing the weakness of a writer trying to opine on a technical subject.

    A bit of Googling reputable medical sites might help you here.

    Fleas are infected by the plague bacteria. There is no comparison with a respiratory virus.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Endillion said:



    Clearly an animal has a surface.

    Proof please, and scientific evidence.
    :smiley:

    :smiley:
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    TGOHF666 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    I'm sure they would but it's not good for the country to have critical decisions on hold (they only said the review into it not anything further) while the PM is out of commission.

    No one is looking at it until he returns is the message.
    Only if you take that to be the message.

    From the podium yesterday they said the work was being done on leaving a lockdown but they did not want to talk about anything other than maintaining the strict measures.

    No doubt too simplistic for some and too complex for others.
    "Downing Street has confirmed that given Boris Johnson's illness, the review into the UK's coronavirus restrictions planned for next Monday will now take place at a later date."

    Is how the BBC put it.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Of course, if Sanders had pulled out by now....

    Wisconsin risks having a huge spread of CV-19 just for Bernie's ego.
    The election isn't happening because of the the Primary, it is happening because of statewide races including a supreme Court spot.

    The Governor had suspended election day, the GOP sued to make it happen. Bernie withdrawing would have had no effect.
    No effect? Turnout would have at least halved.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/us/politics/wisconsin-pandemic-primary-republicans.html

    The primary is a side show to the Supreme Court election.

    Sanders wanted the primary postponed.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020
    Just in case anyone thinks I'm having a belated April Fools' laugh:

    "KEEP CATS INDOORS, VETS RECOMMEND."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52204534

    I don't like scare stories but there is a point to this one which seems to me something to be, at least, considered.

    "To prevent any risk of pets carrying the virus from owners' hands in their fur, British Veterinary Association (BVA), president Daniella Dos Santos encouraged owners to take "sensible precautions".

    "Practise good hand hygiene, try and keep cats indoors," she said.

    "Avoid unnecessary contact with your pets, such a hugging or allowing them to lick your face, and do not touch other people's dogs when on walks."

    p.s. I'm a dog owner in case anyone thinks I'm petist.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    1. Mosquitoes aren't only in Africa.
    2. They don't spread coronavirus.
    3. No idea what your second paragraph is trying to say.
    1. Well aware of that but as I mentioned (sorry you missed it) I was particularly concerned for Africa
    2. Proof please and scientific evidence
    3. How can I put it in more simple terms? We know that Coronavirus sits 'live' on surfaces for a length of time: 24-72 hours. Some reports suggest even up to 2 weeks. Clearly an animal has a surface. If you're infected your virus droplets can reside on animal fur. When the animal wanders off, ergo, it carries it with him or her. In other words, they can be virus vectors without actually catching the virus.

    Fleas, Bubonic Plague, n' all that. See?
    You're showing the weakness of a writer trying to opine on a technical subject.

    It was the President of the UK Veterinary Association. Tsk.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    Just in case anyone thinks I'm having a belated April Fools' laugh:

    "KEEP CATS INDOORS, VETS RECOMMEND."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52204534

    I don't like scare stories but there is a point to this one which seems to me something to be, at least, considered.

    "To prevent any risk of pets carrying the virus from owners' hands in their fur, British Veterinary Association (BVA), president Daniella Dos Santos encouraged owners to take "sensible precautions".

    "Practise good hand hygiene, try and keep cats indoors," she said.

    "Avoid unnecessary contact with your pets, such a hugging or allowing them to lick your face, and do not touch other people's dogs when on walks."

    "Keep your dog under control when on walks" might be a useful addition to that advice!
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    edited April 2020
    Mr Topping,

    "It is precisely Bojo's health that was given as the reason for the delay of the review."

    I admit I usually drift off when the press keep parroting the same questions and I only tend to listen to the experts but I don't remember Whitty or Vallance saying that.

    It's always been a joke. The journalists only ask questions to fit the political bubble they've constructed. The review will come when there's scientific cover to do so. The press want certainty when there isn't any.

    Is it me, or have they always been excitable children?

    Edit. And anothe thing ... the antibody test will be avilable when it's available. Having said that, I've been retired ten years, so I could easily be wrong.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    edited April 2020

    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    1. Mosquitoes aren't only in Africa.
    2. They don't spread coronavirus.
    3. No idea what your second paragraph is trying to say.
    1. Well aware of that but as I mentioned (sorry you missed it) I was particularly concerned for Africa
    2. Proof please and scientific evidence
    3. How can I put it in more simple terms? We know that Coronavirus sits 'live' on surfaces for a length of time: 24-72 hours. Some reports suggest even up to 2 weeks. Clearly an animal has a surface. If you're infected your virus droplets can reside on animal fur. When the animal wanders off, ergo, it carries it with him or her. In other words, they can be virus vectors without actually catching the virus.

    Fleas, Bubonic Plague, n' all that. See?
    You're showing the weakness of a writer trying to opine on a technical subject.

    It was the President of the UK Veterinary Association. Tsk.
    I doubt the President of the UK Vet Soc was the one writing about mosquitos having a surface and drawing a false analogy with plague bacteria.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    TOPPING said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    I'm sure they would but it's not good for the country to have critical decisions on hold (they only said the review into it not anything further) while the PM is out of commission.

    No one is looking at it until he returns is the message.
    Only if you take that to be the message.

    From the podium yesterday they said the work was being done on leaving a lockdown but they did not want to talk about anything other than maintaining the strict measures.

    No doubt too simplistic for some and too complex for others.
    "Downing Street has confirmed that given Boris Johnson's illness, the review into the UK's coronavirus restrictions planned for next Monday will now take place at a later date."

    Is how the BBC put it.
    I prefer to go by what comes out of the mouths of the chaps at the podium than the BBC.

    That’s the problem with the news channels - they would rather spend time on what some correspondent thinks it means rather than take it from the horses mouth.

    A distorting filter.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,088
    edited April 2020

    Just in case anyone thinks I'm having a belated April Fools' laugh:

    "KEEP CATS INDOORS, VETS RECOMMEND."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52204534

    I don't like scare stories but there is a point to this one which seems to me something to be, at least, considered.

    "To prevent any risk of pets carrying the virus from owners' hands in their fur, British Veterinary Association (BVA), president Daniella Dos Santos encouraged owners to take "sensible precautions".

    "Practise good hand hygiene, try and keep cats indoors," she said.

    "Avoid unnecessary contact with your pets, such a hugging or allowing them to lick your face, and do not touch other people's dogs when on walks."

    p.s. I'm a dog owner in case anyone thinks I'm petist.

    Surely a petist by analogy would be someone who prefers some pets to others? You meant to write petphobe.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Some people are getting a bit ratty.

    Boom boom

    Yay, pun time.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), as someone who eats quite a lot of meat and dairy, that's personally good news.

    Any figures on vegans?

    Not seen any breakdown by food fussyness.
    However there was a shortage of chickpeas in supermarkets at the start of the lockdown - which are a rare source of zinc for food haters such as vegans.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,094
    I thought that it was, and always had been, SOP to wash your hands after touching cats'n'dogs.

    My cat has been pushing up bamboo for 2 years, so no problems there.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    kamski said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    1. Mosquitoes aren't only in Africa.
    2. They don't spread coronavirus.
    3. No idea what your second paragraph is trying to say.
    Just read bollox blah, more bollox blah, even more bollox blah blah and you will be close.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    1. Mosquitoes aren't only in Africa.
    2. They don't spread coronavirus.
    3. No idea what your second paragraph is trying to say.
    1. Well aware of that but as I mentioned (sorry you missed it) I was particularly concerned for Africa
    2. Proof please and scientific evidence
    3. How can I put it in more simple terms? We know that Coronavirus sits 'live' on surfaces for a length of time: 24-72 hours. Some reports suggest even up to 2 weeks. Clearly an animal has a surface. If you're infected your virus droplets can reside on animal fur. When the animal wanders off, ergo, it carries it with him or her. In other words, they can be virus vectors without actually catching the virus.

    Fleas, Bubonic Plague, n' all that. See?
    You're showing the weakness of a writer trying to opine on a technical subject.

    A bit of Googling reputable medical sites might help you here.

    Fleas are infected by the plague bacteria. There is no comparison with a respiratory virus.
    "Writer" :D:D:D you been at the sherry
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    1. Mosquitoes aren't only in Africa.
    2. They don't spread coronavirus.
    3. No idea what your second paragraph is trying to say.
    1. Well aware of that but as I mentioned (sorry you missed it) I was particularly concerned for Africa
    2. Proof please and scientific evidence
    3. How can I put it in more simple terms? We know that Coronavirus sits 'live' on surfaces for a length of time: 24-72 hours. Some reports suggest even up to 2 weeks. Clearly an animal has a surface. If you're infected your virus droplets can reside on animal fur. When the animal wanders off, ergo, it carries it with him or her. In other words, they can be virus vectors without actually catching the virus.

    Fleas, Bubonic Plague, n' all that. See?
    You're showing the weakness of a writer trying to opine on a technical subject.

    A bit of Googling reputable medical sites might help you here.

    Fleas are infected by the plague bacteria. There is no comparison with a respiratory virus.
    "Writer" :D:D:D you been at the sherry
    Now now - we have Jackie Kerouac posting on here and you want to take the Michael?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Of course, if Sanders had pulled out by now....

    Wisconsin risks having a huge spread of CV-19 just for Bernie's ego.
    The election isn't happening because of the the Primary, it is happening because of statewide races including a supreme Court spot.

    The Governor had suspended election day, the GOP sued to make it happen. Bernie withdrawing would have had no effect.
    No effect? Turnout would have at least halved.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/us/politics/wisconsin-pandemic-primary-republicans.html

    The primary is a side show to the Supreme Court election.

    Sanders wanted the primary postponed.
    Sanders should quit his vanity trip now
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    Mr Topping,

    It's rather endearing to find you believe what the media say. And politicians aren't far behind..

    I think the printed press have a had particularly bad war. The viewers' questions have been far more informative.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,279
    edited April 2020
    PORLBWAS.

    https://twitter.com/MattSingh_/status/1247784320539877377

    Wonder how she coped with those figures?
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    Some people are getting a bit ratty.

    Boom boom

    Yay, pun time.

    boom boom was a fox.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Although the press are utter rubbish, we wouldn’t have all this constitutional double guessing if the PMs office had simply explained that Raab was taking on all effective responsibilities until further notice.

    This crisis has revealed that HMG comms - and decision making - are below par.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,932
    OT Having finished the Shoestring DVDs (they only made two series before Trevor Eve decided he wanted to be a proper actor) I am about to watch Churchill's Secret, about the Prime Minister recovering from a stroke in office. Sounds a bit far-fetched to me.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880

    Although the press are utter rubbish, we wouldn’t have all this constitutional double guessing if the PMs office had simply explained that Raab was taking on all effective responsibilities until further notice.

    This crisis has revealed that HMG comms - and decision making - are below par.

    Careful now. Never impugn the conduct of The People's Prime Minister.

    Also, everyone remember to stick a wooden spoon up your arse for Matt Hancock at 8pm sharp tonight.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    Some people are getting a bit ratty.

    Boom boom

    Yay, pun time.

    boom boom was a fox.
    I think you’ve just given her the Brush off.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    OT Having finished the Shoestring DVDs (they only made two series before Trevor Eve decided he wanted to be a proper actor) I am about to watch Churchill's Secret, about the Prime Minister recovering from a stroke in office. Sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

    Not that far fetched. Bill Clinton got more than a stroke in his office.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Of course, if Sanders had pulled out by now....

    Wisconsin risks having a huge spread of CV-19 just for Bernie's ego.
    The election isn't happening because of the the Primary, it is happening because of statewide races including a supreme Court spot.

    The Governor had suspended election day, the GOP sued to make it happen. Bernie withdrawing would have had no effect.
    No effect? Turnout would have at least halved.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/us/politics/wisconsin-pandemic-primary-republicans.html

    The primary is a side show to the Supreme Court election.

    Sanders wanted the primary postponed.
    Sanders should quit his vanity trip now
    Why stop at Sanders? Biden and Trump should as well.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    OT Having finished the Shoestring DVDs (they only made two series before Trevor Eve decided he wanted to be a proper actor) I am about to watch Churchill's Secret, about the Prime Minister recovering from a stroke in office. Sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

    Not that far fetched. Bill Clinton got more than a stroke in his office.
    But he blew his chances of recovery.
  • RobCLRobCL Posts: 23

    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    1. Mosquitoes aren't only in Africa.
    2. They don't spread coronavirus.
    3. No idea what your second paragraph is trying to say.
    1. Well aware of that but as I mentioned (sorry you missed it) I was particularly concerned for Africa
    2. Proof please and scientific evidence
    3. How can I put it in more simple terms? We know that Coronavirus sits 'live' on surfaces for a length of time: 24-72 hours. Some reports suggest even up to 2 weeks. Clearly an animal has a surface. If you're infected your virus droplets can reside on animal fur. When the animal wanders off, ergo, it carries it with him or her. In other words, they can be virus vectors without actually catching the virus.

    Fleas, Bubonic Plague, n' all that. See?
    You're showing the weakness of a writer trying to opine on a technical subject.

    It was the President of the UK Veterinary Association. Tsk.
    Except the president of the BVA didn’t say that. The BBC reporter has mixed quotes from overseas vets with the sensible advice to minimise contact through other people’s pets and, if you are isolating in a household, to minimise contact with your pet so that they don’t spread it to other humans in the house through fur contact.

    Yet again another piece of appalling reporting that is going to cause further grief and increased the risk of animals just being dumped.
  • RobCL said:

    IanB2 said:

    kamski said:

    Re the animal issue, the Veterinary Association has just announced that cat owners should keep them indoors.

    The point, misunderstood as with a lot of this virus, is not that the animals catch it and then spread it, but then any roving object can spread the virus. Same with dogs.

    The one which really concerns me particularly from an African-centric point of view is mosquitoes. Anyone know if this has been studied?

    1. Mosquitoes aren't only in Africa.
    2. They don't spread coronavirus.
    3. No idea what your second paragraph is trying to say.
    1. Well aware of that but as I mentioned (sorry you missed it) I was particularly concerned for Africa
    2. Proof please and scientific evidence
    3. How can I put it in more simple terms? We know that Coronavirus sits 'live' on surfaces for a length of time: 24-72 hours. Some reports suggest even up to 2 weeks. Clearly an animal has a surface. If you're infected your virus droplets can reside on animal fur. When the animal wanders off, ergo, it carries it with him or her. In other words, they can be virus vectors without actually catching the virus.

    Fleas, Bubonic Plague, n' all that. See?
    You're showing the weakness of a writer trying to opine on a technical subject.

    It was the President of the UK Veterinary Association. Tsk.
    Except the president of the BVA didn’t say that. The BBC reporter has mixed quotes from overseas vets with the sensible advice to minimise contact through other people’s pets and, if you are isolating in a household, to minimise contact with your pet so that they don’t spread it to other humans in the house through fur contact.

    Yet again another piece of appalling reporting that is going to cause further grief and increased the risk of animals just being dumped.
    Keep cats indoors. Period. Very good idea.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287
    ydoethur said:

    OT Having finished the Shoestring DVDs (they only made two series before Trevor Eve decided he wanted to be a proper actor) I am about to watch Churchill's Secret, about the Prime Minister recovering from a stroke in office. Sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

    Not that far fetched. Bill Clinton got more than a stroke in his office.
    But he blew his chances of recovery.
    Ugh! That sucks!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited April 2020

    Although the press are utter rubbish, we wouldn’t have all this constitutional double guessing if the PMs office had simply explained that Raab was taking on all effective responsibilities until further notice.

    This crisis has revealed that HMG comms - and decision making - are below par.

    In this particular point theyve actually been crystal clear, in contrast to some other issues. We would absolutely still be getting constitutional double guessing given even after being told that Raab would be formally deputising there will still questions over who would make decisions. They're still talking about power vacuums and such when no vacuum exists.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,932

    OT Having finished the Shoestring DVDs (they only made two series before Trevor Eve decided he wanted to be a proper actor) I am about to watch Churchill's Secret, about the Prime Minister recovering from a stroke in office. Sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

    Not that far fetched. Bill Clinton got more than a stroke in his office.
    This Churchill character starts by praising the Romans' contribution to civilisation. I wonder if we will ever again have a Prime Minister interested in the Classics. In a parallel to today, Churchill was acting as Foreign Secretary while Eden was under the knife.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846
    edited April 2020
    Very sad to hear this morning of the death of John Prine. One of the greatest of the American folk singer songwriters.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T5NuI6Ai-o
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    I'm in favour of more collective decision-making and a less quasi-Presidential system in general, but I think it's true that more collective systems, like the Greek city-states, would often appoint a temporary dictator to see them through a crisis. It's perverse for us to end up doing the reverse. A new Prime Minister is required.

    As an aside, this risks showing how useless the Monarchy has become. Any head of state with independent authority would intervene to insist on a replacement head of government, but the Monarchy appears to have decided that inaction at all times is the surest way to preserve their position. The idea that they might provide a bulwark against totalitarianism is exposed as fantasy.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401

    Just in case anyone thinks I'm having a belated April Fools' laugh:

    "KEEP CATS INDOORS, VETS RECOMMEND."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52204534

    I don't like scare stories but there is a point to this one which seems to me something to be, at least, considered.

    "To prevent any risk of pets carrying the virus from owners' hands in their fur, British Veterinary Association (BVA), president Daniella Dos Santos encouraged owners to take "sensible precautions".

    "Practise good hand hygiene, try and keep cats indoors," she said.

    "Avoid unnecessary contact with your pets, such a hugging or allowing them to lick your face, and do not touch other people's dogs when on walks."

    p.s. I'm a dog owner in case anyone thinks I'm petist.

    The benefits of having a house rabbit. We can stroke his ears with carefree abandon.

    The neighbours' cats, on the other hand, can feck right off.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 23,932

    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    No, it is yet another balls-up in the spin department. Either Raab can run the show or crucial decisions need to wait for Boris to return. Which is it?
    Indeed.

    The right-wingers on here will myopically criticise the press and shout down anyone who raises issues as a left-winger. However, there's no getting away from the fact that this is a problem and a pretty serious one at that.

    The country is in its greatest ever peacetime crisis. Leadership of the right kind: consistent, strong, collective is required. With Boris in hospital I can't honestly say that any of those three adjectives currently apply. In their heart-of-hearts I doubt any of our blue-card carrying friends can either. (Except 666, obvs.)
    Bollocks. The simple fact is in within the next ten days Boris' situation is likely to resolve, one way or the other. There is no realistic possibility of the overall coronavirus strategy having to change within that time that would make it worth enacting a formal transition of power right now.

    The media just need to keep their piss from sloshing out of their nappies, grow the fuck up, and stop spreading hysteria. So naturally they'll probably do the exact opposite.

    The media and Lord Heseltine, a previous Deputy Prime Minister to John Major.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I agree with Mike and I think there is unease about the situation. The press are correct to be expressing the mood. Tim Shipman writing in The Sunday Times before Boris was admitted referred to all the Cabinet in-fighting. I know a lot of people who are rooting for Boris not just because they're rooting for Boris but because they don't think anyone else is good enough to lead the country from his party.

    The other thing I'm picking up is that senior figures should be drafted in, including from other parties.

    At the moment we're winging it, which is clearly unsatisfactory. It's based on the idea that Boris may only spend 5-7 days in ICU. There are a huge number of key decisions to make in the coming days including the big one: when to ease lockdown.

    Anecdotally, judging by the behaviour I'm witnessing I would say that a lot of Britons are already easing the lockdown.

    Shipman called it “in fighting”
    But what he described was a discussion over how to balance the human and economic cost of this crisis. Frankly that is EXACTLY the discussion that should be happening in the Cabinet and I would be a lot more worried if it wasn’t.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    I'm in favour of more collective decision-making and a less quasi-Presidential system in general, but I think it's true that more collective systems, like the Greek city-states, would often appoint a temporary dictator to see them through a crisis. It's perverse for us to end up doing the reverse. A new Prime Minister is required.

    As an aside, this risks showing how useless the Monarchy has become. Any head of state with independent authority would intervene to insist on a replacement head of government, but the Monarchy appears to have decided that inaction at all times is the surest way to preserve their position. The idea that they might provide a bulwark against totalitarianism is exposed as fantasy.

    Given that there is no sign of totalitarianism here - quite the opposite in fact - you are clearly making unjustified and unsupportable claims there.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,846

    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    No, it is yet another balls-up in the spin department. Either Raab can run the show or crucial decisions need to wait for Boris to return. Which is it?
    Indeed.

    The right-wingers on here will myopically criticise the press and shout down anyone who raises issues as a left-winger. However, there's no getting away from the fact that this is a problem and a pretty serious one at that.

    The country is in its greatest ever peacetime crisis. Leadership of the right kind: consistent, strong, collective is required. With Boris in hospital I can't honestly say that any of those three adjectives currently apply. In their heart-of-hearts I doubt any of our blue-card carrying friends can either. (Except 666, obvs.)
    Bollocks. The simple fact is in within the next ten days Boris' situation is likely to resolve, one way or the other. There is no realistic possibility of the overall coronavirus strategy having to change within that time that would make it worth enacting a formal transition of power right now.

    The media just need to keep their piss from sloshing out of their nappies, grow the fuck up, and stop spreading hysteria. So naturally they'll probably do the exact opposite.

    The media and Lord Heseltine, a previous Deputy Prime Minister to John Major.
    A man who has never missed the opportunity to create trouble for the Tory party ever since they rejected him as leader back in the early 90s.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,760

    OT Having finished the Shoestring DVDs (they only made two series before Trevor Eve decided he wanted to be a proper actor) I am about to watch Churchill's Secret, about the Prime Minister recovering from a stroke in office. Sounds a bit far-fetched to me.

    Not that far fetched. Bill Clinton got more than a stroke in his office.
    This Churchill character starts by praising the Romans' contribution to civilisation. I wonder if we will ever again have a Prime Minister interested in the Classics. In a parallel to today, Churchill was acting as Foreign Secretary while Eden was under the knife.
    I thought the Marquis of Salisbury stood in as Foreign Secretary for Eden? Not that I know much about the career of Eden.
  • isamisam Posts: 40,731
    Clickbait 101. The Mail have deliberately chosen a quote from Klopp that woke people will call a racist stereotype here.

    https://twitter.com/mailsport/status/1247785027837947904?s=21
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    So let's guess... Adam Boulton will spend most of the morning discussing a non-existent constitutional crisis, and there might be a two minute interlude when the virus situation gets discussed. And even that will likely be some journalist or other wailing about when will the lockdown be lifted.

    Quality.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited April 2020

    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    No, it is yet another balls-up in the spin department. Either Raab can run the show or crucial decisions need to wait for Boris to return. Which is it?
    Indeed.

    The right-wingers on here will myopically criticise the press and shout down anyone who raises issues as a left-winger. However, there's no getting away from the fact that this is a problem and a pretty serious one at that.

    The country is in its greatest ever peacetime crisis. Leadership of the right kind: consistent, strong, collective is required. With Boris in hospital I can't honestly say that any of those three adjectives currently apply. In their heart-of-hearts I doubt any of our blue-card carrying friends can either. (Except 666, obvs.)
    I dont see how this is a left or right issue. Certainly I dont recall stating anyone with concerns is a left winger, or indeed even suggesting concerns in this matter were irrelevant.

    What it isn't is as immediate a concern as presented by some press and, rather unusually, is an example where the UK's flexible governance arrangements affords an advantage. Collective decisions can continue to be made based on the scientific advice, and we know who is to be gone to for an urgent call, be it a reactive or proactive one. I cannot see what would be different if Boris were still up and about other than questions of mandate, which like most references to mandate, are meaningless.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    Foss said:

    TOPPING said:

    Maybe there's method in the decision but from the BBC news site "given Johnson's predicament the decision to review the lockdown has been put back a week" will for better or worse diminish sympathy for him. Everyone has to wait until he recovers before the country can get on with life.

    Perhaps if the death rate was dropping. While it keeps going up, people will accept that lockdown was going to continue wherever Johnson was.
    No, it is yet another balls-up in the spin department. Either Raab can run the show or crucial decisions need to wait for Boris to return. Which is it?
    Indeed.

    The right-wingers on here will myopically criticise the press and shout down anyone who raises issues as a left-winger. However, there's no getting away from the fact that this is a problem and a pretty serious one at that.

    The country is in its greatest ever peacetime crisis. Leadership of the right kind: consistent, strong, collective is required. With Boris in hospital I can't honestly say that any of those three adjectives currently apply. In their heart-of-hearts I doubt any of our blue-card carrying friends can either. (Except 666, obvs.)
    Bollocks. The simple fact is in within the next ten days Boris' situation is likely to resolve, one way or the other. There is no realistic possibility of the overall coronavirus strategy having to change within that time that would make it worth enacting a formal transition of power right now.

    The media just need to keep their piss from sloshing out of their nappies, grow the fuck up, and stop spreading hysteria. So naturally they'll probably do the exact opposite.

    The media and Lord Heseltine, a previous Deputy Prime Minister to John Major.
    A man who has never missed the opportunity to create trouble for the Tory party ever since they rejected him as leader back in the early 90s.
    He seems to have replaced Ted Heath in that role.
This discussion has been closed.