Not a fan of Johnson from a political standpoint but I certainly hope he makes a quick recovery . However some of tomorrow’s front pages have gone full on hyperbole . The Sun front page has turned the PM into Mother Theresa asking a nation to pray for him!
The Guardian seems to have gone into headless chicken mode.
Do they really think that the civil service hadn't drawn up or wargamed a PM being ill?
Be fair. It is its default mode and it defaults pretty regular.
Newsnight leading on the power issue. This is becoming an obsession.
It's called the Cabinet guys. Take a deep breath.
Its not like anything else is going on out there in the country or the world....We had Boulton spending an age talking through the process of a new Tory leader election today.
Literally every question today at the press conference was a variation of what if this happens, will you make a decision. What if the cabinet can't decide, who will have the final say, etc etc etc.
It reminded me of the press obsessions with coming up with the most stupid scenarios and asking if that was ok in terms of lockdown.
Also there is no “h” in cappuccino. “H” after “c” does not make the “c” soft in Italian.
I have no knowledge of Italian and so I compromise by spelling it like it sounds. Having said that, I do the same for English words that people insist on mispronouncing. I refuse to pronounce Cholmondoley as "Chumly" or Magdalene as "Maudlin", etc.
I do wonder if any of these journalists have any experience reading academic papers and then thinking for themselves about what they are claiming. Or are they literally reading the abstract / conclusion and writing a story on it?
Well we keep getting questions that are easily answered by reading the papers from Imperial College. So I seriously doubt that many journalists are even skimming the abstracts.
Not a fan of Johnson from a political standpoint but I certainly hope he makes a quick recovery . However some of tomorrow’s front pages have gone full on hyperbole . The Sun front page has turned the PM into Mother Theresa asking a nation to pray for him!
Even if he is discharged from Tommy's tommorow, he should stay off work for at least a week. Perhaps at Chequers. Let the lad run the shop for another week. Graveyards are full of indispensable men.
Graveyards are full of men - you and me too eventually
Not a fan of Johnson from a political standpoint but I certainly hope he makes a quick recovery . However some of tomorrow’s front pages have gone full on hyperbole . The Sun front page has turned the PM into Mother Theresa asking a nation to pray for him!
The Guardian seems to have gone into headless chicken mode.
Do they really think that the civil service hadn't drawn up or wargamed a PM being ill?
I see they also quoting that report that is clearly BS saying UK will have 60k deaths, while France, Italy etc will be more like 20k.
It took PB about 5 mins to find the flaws and also the fact that even by the last few days data, their model is spitting out BS. Just like the Imperial one that said 7,000 deaths in the UK.
I do wonder if any of these journalists have any experience reading academic papers and then thinking for themselves about what they are claiming. Or are they literally reading the abstract / conclusion and writing a story on it?
I do wonder if any of these journalists have any experience reading academic papers and then thinking for themselves about what they are claiming. Or are they literally reading the abstract / conclusion and writing a story on it?
Well we keep getting questions that are easily answered by reading the papers from Imperial College. So I seriously doubt that many journalists are even skimming the abstracts.
Those as as much as a gotcha as anything else. Even if they didn't read the paper, they were told this is the long haul and that the lockdowning everybody down at the start of February is a terrible idea as we will have to endure this for months....and yet they ask every day, when will it end, how long to the second left, it seems like it is going to have to be a long time, how will we manage, its too hard.
Newsnight leading on the power issue. This is becoming an obsession.
It's called the Cabinet guys. Take a deep breath.
Its not like anything else is going on out there in the country or the world....We had Boulton spending an age talking through the process of a new Tory leader election today.
Literally every question today at the press conference was a variation of what if this happens, will you make a decision. What if the cabinet can't decide, who will have the final say, etc etc etc.
It reminded me of the press obsessions with coming up with the most stupid scenarios and asking if that was ok in terms of lockdown.
It shows a wilful lack of understanding of our system of government frankly.
Disgracefully, Asda and Sainsbury’s are selling meat from Poland instead of using the meat from local farmers.
Sorry, why is this disgraceful???
Why aren’t they supplying meat from local farmers who are finding their normal export markets difficult to access?
Their job is to get people food.
I know that. And there is plenty of delicious well-reared meat on their doorstep there for the buying - and without all those carbon miles.
Sorry but I couldn't disagree more under the circumstances.
There is a major disruption to the entire world economy and supply chains are tearing at the seams. The supermarkets are literally struggling to ensure there is food on the shelves to ensure people can eat. They are struggling to ensure they can deliver that food if they can, so that people can eat.
People being able to put food on their plate with the minimum amount of journeys to the supermarket is the only thing that matters right now, not country of origin.
There is a time and a place to worry about air miles. It is not now. Not today.
What on earth is the problem with Sainsbury’s and Asda buying meat from farmers in the U.K.?
There is no problem, which is why they do normally. The meat I normally see in the supermarkets has a Union Flag and a Red Tractor symbol.
But right now supply chains are falling apart and demand is skyrocketing.
The only issue that matters is ensuring there is stock on the shelves. How do you know the farmers meat supply hasn't been tapped and they need more? You think farmers are being turned away right now?
They need stock. Nothing else matters.
According to local farmers, those two supermarkets are not taking British meat. There may be more to the story but it does seem odd to me, especially since - as you say - we need food.
That doesn't past the 'sniff test', it simply doesn't make sense, there's probably more to that story than meets the eye.
Every time I've been to the supermarket recently the meat shelves have been half empty and choice is very restricted on what is available. I simply don't believe quality British meat is being turned away - and while I always go for Red Tractor meat normally, right now all I want is to get into the supermarket and out again with a full trolley as quickly, safely and infrequently as I can.
Farmed in Lancashire or Latvia, Portsmouth or Poland, Bolton or Bolivia - right now I couldn't care less so long as my family and I have something to eat. If all they have available is imports for some reason then put it on the shelves.
I thought farmed in Portsmouth was a stretch until you said Bolton.
Ok here's a question...has any journalist impressed you with their take on things, clearly doing proper research while not trying to do a Peston and think he knows more than Deputy Chief Medical Officer, and steering anyway from hyperbole or dickhead questions?
Disgracefully, Asda and Sainsbury’s are selling meat from Poland instead of using the meat from local farmers.
Sorry, why is this disgraceful???
Why aren’t they supplying meat from local farmers who are finding their normal export markets difficult to access?
Their job is to get people food.
I know that. And there is plenty of delicious well-reared meat on their doorstep there for the buying - and without all those carbon miles.
Sorry but I couldn't disagree more under the circumstances.
There is a major disruption to the entire world economy and supply chains are tearing at the seams. The supermarkets are literally struggling to ensure there is food on the shelves to ensure people can eat. They are struggling to ensure they can deliver that food if they can, so that people can eat.
People being able to put food on their plate with the minimum amount of journeys to the supermarket is the only thing that matters right now, not country of origin.
There is a time and a place to worry about air miles. It is not now. Not today.
What on earth is the problem with Sainsbury’s and Asda buying meat from farmers in the U.K.?
There is no problem, which is why they do normally. The meat I normally see in the supermarkets has a Union Flag and a Red Tractor symbol.
But right now supply chains are falling apart and demand is skyrocketing.
The only issue that matters is ensuring there is stock on the shelves. How do you know the farmers meat supply hasn't been tapped and they need more? You think farmers are being turned away right now?
They need stock. Nothing else matters.
According to local farmers, those two supermarkets are not taking British meat. There may be more to the story but it does seem odd to me, especially since - as you say - we need food.
That doesn't past the 'sniff test', it simply doesn't make sense, there's probably more to that story than meets the eye.
Every time I've been to the supermarket recently the meat shelves have been half empty and choice is very restricted on what is available. I simply don't believe quality British meat is being turned away - and while I always go for Red Tractor meat normally, right now all I want is to get into the supermarket and out again with a full trolley as quickly, safely and infrequently as I can.
Farmed in Lancashire or Latvia, Portsmouth or Poland, Bolton or Bolivia - right now I couldn't care less so long as my family and I have something to eat. If all they have available is imports for some reason then put it on the shelves.
I thought farmed in Portsmouth was a stretch until you said Bolton.
Should have stuck with counties like Lancashire. Was trying to think of places that sounded alike and those were what came to mind.
Newsnight leading on the power issue. This is becoming an obsession.
It's called the Cabinet guys. Take a deep breath.
Its not like anything else is going on out there in the country or the world....We had Boulton spending an age talking through the process of a new Tory leader election today.
Literally every question today at the press conference was a variation of what if this happens, will you make a decision. What if the cabinet can't decide, who will have the final say, etc etc etc.
It reminded me of the press obsessions with coming up with the most stupid scenarios and asking if that was ok in terms of lockdown.
Foghorn journalism, here I am here, here, can you hear me?
Ok here's a question...has any journalist impressed you with their take on things, clearly doing proper research while not trying to do a Peston and think he knows more than Deputy Chief Medical Officer, and steering anyway from hyperbole or dickhead questions?
No.
My question is why don't any of the news agencies have a medical expert who can ask the questions. Why does the BBC need a political journalist like LauraK to ask an inane question rather than someone who knows what they're talking about?
This whole pandemic is not a great advert for any of our news agencies or the idea we need to pay a compulsory fee to keep them running.
Also there is no “h” in cappuccino. “H” after “c” does not make the “c” soft in Italian.
I have no knowledge of Italian and so I compromise by spelling it like it sounds. Having said that, I do the same for English words that people insist on mispronouncing. I refuse to pronounce Cholmondoley as "Chumly" or Magdalene as "Maudlin", etc.
Newsnight leading on the power issue. This is becoming an obsession.
It's called the Cabinet guys. Take a deep breath.
The media is bored. There is no narrative at the moment except the one we were told to prepare for: the country stays at home, the death toll builds towards its peak. As what was expected to happen is happening, that's not enough to feed the beast, so they're creating their own story. Meanwhile, people get on as best they can, hoping Boris gets better and soon, but not exactly bricking it over 'who is in charge'.
Disgracefully, Asda and Sainsbury’s are selling meat from Poland instead of using the meat from local farmers.
Sorry, why is this disgraceful???
Why aren’t they supplying meat from local farmers who are finding their normal export markets difficult to access?
Their job is to get people food.
I know that. And there is plenty of delicious well-reared meat on their doorstep there for the buying - and without all those carbon miles.
Sorry but I couldn't disagree more under the circumstances.
There is a major disruption to the entire world economy and supply chains are tearing at the seams. The supermarkets are literally struggling to ensure there is food on the shelves to ensure people can eat. They are struggling to ensure they can deliver that food if they can, so that people can eat.
People being able to put food on their plate with the minimum amount of journeys to the supermarket is the only thing that matters right now, not country of origin.
There is a time and a place to worry about air miles. It is not now. Not today.
What on earth is the problem with Sainsbury’s and Asda buying meat from farmers in the U.K.?
There is no problem, which is why they do normally. The meat I normally see in the supermarkets has a Union Flag and a Red Tractor symbol.
But right now supply chains are falling apart and demand is skyrocketing.
The only issue that matters is ensuring there is stock on the shelves. How do you know the farmers meat supply hasn't been tapped and they need more? You think farmers are being turned away right now?
They need stock. Nothing else matters.
According to local farmers, those two supermarkets are not taking British meat. There may be more to the story but it does seem odd to me, especially since - as you say - we need food.
That doesn't past the 'sniff test', it simply doesn't make sense, there's probably more to that story than meets the eye.
Every time I've been to the supermarket recently the meat shelves have been half empty and choice is very restricted on what is available. I simply don't believe quality British meat is being turned away - and while I always go for Red Tractor meat normally, right now all I want is to get into the supermarket and out again with a full trolley as quickly, safely and infrequently as I can.
Farmed in Lancashire or Latvia, Portsmouth or Poland, Bolton or Bolivia - right now I couldn't care less so long as my family and I have something to eat. If all they have available is imports for some reason then put it on the shelves.
I thought farmed in Portsmouth was a stretch until you said Bolton.
Ok here's a question...has any journalist impressed you with their take on things, clearly doing proper research while not trying to do a Peston and think he knows more than Deputy Chief Medical Officer, and steering anyway from hyperbole or dickhead questions?
No.
My question is why don't any of the news agencies have a medical expert who can ask the questions. Why does the BBC need a political journalist like LauraK to ask an inane question rather than someone who knows what they're talking about?
This whole pandemic is not a great advert for any of our news agencies or the idea we need to pay a compulsory fee to keep them running.
The thing is now we all have the internet and access to the actual papers, we can read them for ourselves. And for those that have a background in this, can quickly tell that those that are supposedly informing the public on these matters either don't read past the abstract or don't actually understand what is going on (and don't ask anybody to decode it for them).
Generally this would be fine and potentially make for better government than usual, but in this particular crisis like this it's very, very bad. Beating the virus requires *speed*. The cabinet and the stand-in PM can't act fast, they can't act decisively, they can't hire and fire, and they can't do controversial things that the PM may turn out not to agree with.
Newsnight leading on the power issue. This is becoming an obsession.
It's called the Cabinet guys. Take a deep breath.
The media is bored. There is no narrative at the moment except the one we were told to prepare for: the country stays at home, the death toll builds towards its peak. As what was expected to happen is happening, that's not enough to feed the beast, so they're creating their own story. Meanwhile, people get on as best they can, hoping Boris gets better and soon, but not exactly bricking it over 'who is in charge'.
You can feel it with the daily pressers, the media are hungry for a big announcement every day, like it is a GE campaign.
When the reality is, boring is actually good. Boring that everybody stays home, boring that the NHS doesn't crash and that all the frontline staff are able to just do their jobs, boring that over the course of several months we get past this wave.
And the reality is nobody can magic up 1,000s of ventilators by tomorrow, or able to produce the results from a clinical trial by next week. There is no easy, the Chancellor has opened his cheque book and that is problem solved.
Ok here's a question...has any journalist impressed you with their take on things, clearly doing proper research while not trying to do a Peston and think he knows more than Deputy Chief Medical Officer, and steering anyway from hyperbole or dickhead questions?
That bloke doing the stats on the Beeb is passably okay
Disgracefully, Asda and Sainsbury’s are selling meat from Poland instead of using the meat from local farmers.
Sorry, why is this disgraceful???
Why aren’t they supplying meat from local farmers who are finding their normal export markets difficult to access?
Their job is to get people food.
I know that. And there is plenty of delicious well-reared meat on their doorstep there for the buying - and without all those carbon miles.
Sorry but I couldn't disagree more under the circumstances.
There is a major disruption to the entire world economy and supply chains are tearing at the seams. The supermarkets are literally struggling to ensure there is food on the shelves to ensure people can eat. They are struggling to ensure they can deliver that food if they can, so that people can eat.
People being able to put food on their plate with the minimum amount of journeys to the supermarket is the only thing that matters right now, not country of origin.
There is a time and a place to worry about air miles. It is not now. Not today.
What on earth is the problem with Sainsbury’s and Asda buying meat from farmers in the U.K.?
There is no problem, which is why they do normally. The meat I normally see in the supermarkets has a Union Flag and a Red Tractor symbol.
But right now supply chains are falling apart and demand is skyrocketing.
The only issue that matters is ensuring there is stock on the shelves. How do you know the farmers meat supply hasn't been tapped and they need more? You think farmers are being turned away right now?
They need stock. Nothing else matters.
According to local farmers, those two supermarkets are not taking British meat. There may be more to the story but it does seem odd to me, especially since - as you say - we need food.
That doesn't past the 'sniff test', it simply doesn't make sense, there's probably more to that story than meets the eye.
Every time I've been to the supermarket recently the meat shelves have been half empty and choice is very restricted on what is available. I simply don't believe quality British meat is being turned away - and while I always go for Red Tractor meat normally, right now all I want is to get into the supermarket and out again with a full trolley as quickly, safely and infrequently as I can.
Farmed in Lancashire or Latvia, Portsmouth or Poland, Bolton or Bolivia - right now I couldn't care less so long as my family and I have something to eat. If all they have available is imports for some reason then put it on the shelves.
Newsnight leading on the power issue. This is becoming an obsession.
It's called the Cabinet guys. Take a deep breath.
Newsnight was so poor tonight I turned it off. It’s been a bit up and down but generally better than the rest of the media since the virus hit. Not tonight, the power stuff is inane nonsense.
He's made multiple false claims about US states requesting things, so I see no reason to believe him regarding the UK. I don't know that US ventilators would even by approved or technically appropriate.
Generally this would be fine and potentially make for better government than usual, but in this particular crisis like this it's very, very bad. Beating the virus requires *speed*. The cabinet and the stand-in PM can't act fast, they can't act decisively, they can't hire and fire, and they can't do controversial things that the PM may turn out not to agree with.
They can, and I have difficulty believing they would not if presented with the need to take an urgent decision. Even if they are not grown ups they are advised by grown ups, and they absolutely can do those things at least as fast as the PM could since even a PM does not wield unfettered personal authority and is not exactly blasting of decisions willy nilly with zero reference to anyone, he's not an Emperor.
Added: Am I to believe that if someone came to Raab and was told he had to make a choice, there was not time to run it by the PM, that he would freeze? That he would go against advice it could not wait so he could conference call it? Whether any of the Cabinet has doubts about him being the man for that choice, the position that he is filling in for the PM has been very clearly stated, there is none of the confusion in the communication that people have been so worried about with other matters.
Generally this would be fine and potentially make for better government than usual, but in this particular crisis like this it's very, very bad. Beating the virus requires *speed*. The cabinet and the stand-in PM can't act fast, they can't act decisively, they can't hire and fire, and they can't do controversial things that the PM may turn out not to agree with.
Same as Boris, they'll do what the scientists and medics tell them is the right thing to do. Who can blame them?
"No power to hire and fire or audience with Queen, but could propose military action"
I mean, does anyone seriously think Raab is likely to be proposing military action in the next few days?
And isn't the statement re the Queen also absurd - if something major now happened and the Queen wanted to speak to someone surely she would speak to Raab? Why wouldn't she? It could hardly cause any harm.
He's made multiple false claims about US states requesting things, so I see no reason to believe him regarding the UK. I don't know that US ventilators would even by approved or technically appropriate.
Who knows. What is almost certain is that diplomatic communications made to Trump personally are very unlikely to have happened in the form or tone that he tells us they are, given his flare for the dramatic and implausibility of all world leaders, and their staff, being unable to contain their own panic for five minutes even in a crisis. But he's not about to be contradicted, so he can shape it as he likes without concern.
Useless fact: the American president during the 1918 flu epidemic that killed 5% of the world's population, Woodrow Wilson, didn't mention it once in public.
He's made multiple false claims about US states requesting things, so I see no reason to believe him regarding the UK. I don't know that US ventilators would even by approved or technically appropriate.
Who knows. What is almost certain is that diplomatic communications made to Trump personally are very unlikely to have in the form or tone that he tells us they are, given his flare for the dramatic and implausibility of all world leaders, and their staff, being unable to contain their own panic for five minutes even in a crisis.
I don't think it would come as a huge surprise if the UK is ringing around every country who makes ventilators asking if they have spare units. It was one of the strands of the multi-faceted approach.
But no way, Boris has been ringing up breathlessly begging for them between coughing fits.
Who knows. What is almost certain is that diplomatic communications made to Trump personally are very unlikely to have happened in the form or tone that he tells us they are, given his flare for the dramatic and implausibility of all world leaders, and their staff, being unable to contain their own panic for five minutes even in a crisis. But he's not about to be contradicted, so he can shape it as he likes without concern.
I suspect that most "conversations" with Trump involve a lot of non-committal agreement and hoping to get him off the phone as soon as possible.
Useless fact: the American president during the 1918 flu epidemic that killed 5% of the world's population, Woodrow Wilson, didn't mention it once in public.
Mind you they did not have TV, internet or even radio in 1918 so he had less need to make a public statement on it
One of the trivial but highly welcome reliefs when this is all over will be the daily ritual of PBers rushing to say “grim” whenever the official death roll comes out, regardless of context, regardless of the comparator day the previous week, regardless of statistical lag, regardless of total death baseline.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the only official statistic that says anything much at all is hospital admissions vs hospital discharges.
Who knows. What is almost certain is that diplomatic communications made to Trump personally are very unlikely to have happened in the form or tone that he tells us they are, given his flare for the dramatic and implausibility of all world leaders, and their staff, being unable to contain their own panic for five minutes even in a crisis. But he's not about to be contradicted, so he can shape it as he likes without concern.
I suspect that most "conversations" with Trump involve a lot of non-committal agreement and hoping to get him off the phone as soon as possible.
If I recall reports from the transcript of Trump's conversation with the Ukranian President there was some pretty naked flattery from the latter, likely on the basis that if any world leader was to be swayed by obvious personal flattery it was Trump. Calculated obsequiousness probably goes a long way with him.
I don't think it would come as a huge surprise if the UK is ringing around every country who makes ventilators asking if they have spare units. It was one of the strands of the multi-faceted approach.
But no way, Boris has been ringing up breathlessly begging for them between coughing fits.
Can you simply buy and use a US ventilator? Does it need approval, and is it technically compatible with UK medical equipment?
They can, and I have difficulty believing they would not if presented with the need to take an urgent decision. Even if they are not grown ups they are advised by grown ups, and they absolutely can do those things at least as fast as the PM could since even a PM does not wield unfettered personal authority and is not exactly blasting of decisions willy nilly with zero reference to anyone, he's not an Emperor.
Added: Am I to believe that if someone came to Raab and was told he had to make a choice, there was not time to run it by the PM, that he would freeze? That he would go against advice it could not wait so he could conference call it? Whether any of the Cabinet has doubts about him being the man for that choice, the position that he is filling in for the PM has been very clearly stated, there is none of the confusion in the communication that people have been so worried about with other matters.
This is the problem though: "If presented with the need to take an urgent decision". With covid19, by the time you're presented with the need to take an urgent decision, it's too late. You have to be proactive, you have to move fast, or you die.
Yes, there'a a committee, and it's reporting to the cabinet, which is another committee. But committees aren't designed to move fast. They're designed to *prevent* fast movement, not to conclude until the evidence is clear and all the angles are considered. This is usually an excellent way to govern: Problems aren't usually as urgent as they appear, and action is often counterproductive. But there are times when that is manifestly unsuited to the problem at hand, and in those rare times, you need *leadership*.
"No power to hire and fire or audience with Queen, but could propose military action"
I mean, does anyone seriously think Raab is likely to be proposing military action in the next few days?
And isn't the statement re the Queen also absurd - if something major now happened and the Queen wanted to speak to someone surely she would speak to Raab? Why wouldn't she? It could hardly cause any harm.
On military action: who knows. Putin could be behaving like a total twat over our airspace by tomorrow night. The Cabinet and NSC will handle it.
The thing about this bug is this: it produces surreal dystopian images - of forsaken corpses, temporary morgues and mass graves, which everyone - because of normalcy bias - dismisses as fake, or Russian propaganda, or as wrongly interpreted.
Then it turns out they were real videos. This is what a plague looks like.
My favourite pb example is that video of filled body bags apparently left in the street in Wuhan. I posted this on here in early feb, I believe. At the time it was roundly dismissed. Charles, for example, suggested it was a video showing exhausted workers who had come home and gone to sleep in body bags.
It was no such thing. It was uncollected corpses.
That wasn’t me. The only thing I ever questioned was your predictions of 1.0-2.0m dead. I didn’t expect this lock down. But I did think that coronavirus would be episodic and endemic.
They can, and I have difficulty believing they would not if presented with the need to take an urgent decision. Even if they are not grown ups they are advised by grown ups, and they absolutely can do those things at least as fast as the PM could since even a PM does not wield unfettered personal authority and is not exactly blasting of decisions willy nilly with zero reference to anyone, he's not an Emperor.
Added: Am I to believe that if someone came to Raab and was told he had to make a choice, there was not time to run it by the PM, that he would freeze? That he would go against advice it could not wait so he could conference call it? Whether any of the Cabinet has doubts about him being the man for that choice, the position that he is filling in for the PM has been very clearly stated, there is none of the confusion in the communication that people have been so worried about with other matters.
This is the problem though: "If presented with the need to take an urgent decision". With covid19, by the time you're presented with the need to take an urgent decision, it's too late. You have to be proactive, you have to move fast, or you die.
Yes, there'a a committee, and it's reporting to the cabinet, which is another committee. But committees aren't designed to move fast. They're designed to *prevent* fast movement, not to conclude until the evidence is clear and all the angles are considered. This is usually an excellent way to govern: Problems aren't usually as urgent as they appear, and action is often counterproductive. But there are times when that is manifestly unsuited to the problem at hand, and in those rare times, you need *leadership*.
Well now you're not making any sense to me. The situation presented was that the alternative arrangements in place with the PM out of action would not be sufficiently fast, presumably as compared to the PM being in place, but the scenario you present now would be no different if the PM was in place. He'd be presented with the need to take urgent decisions, or options to take proactively. What about that changes with him not in place?
I'm unclear how you think the PM takes decisions without being presented with the need to take urgent decisions, or indeed being presented with options on how to respond proactively. And I'm still unclear how someone acting officially as his deputy, without a need any longer to run things by him, could not do the same thing.
What about that is not leadership? It's Cabinet government now, as it was last week, and like last week it is known who is to be leader amongst them. What additional leadership do you think should be in place other than what we have, a named person being able to act as the PM when the PM is not around?
Surely a lack of leadership like that would be if we didn't know who would take the reins of Cabinet? But we do. It's not enough to simply say it is not fast enough, or at least I cannot see how the speed will have decreased.
The thing about this bug is this: it produces surreal dystopian images - of forsaken corpses, temporary morgues and mass graves, which everyone - because of normalcy bias - dismisses as fake, or Russian propaganda, or as wrongly interpreted.
Then it turns out they were real videos. This is what a plague looks like.
My favourite pb example is that video of filled body bags apparently left in the street in Wuhan. I posted this on here in early feb, I believe. At the time it was roundly dismissed. Charles, for example, suggested it was a video showing exhausted workers who had come home and gone to sleep in body bags.
It was no such thing. It was uncollected corpses.
That wasn’t me. The only thing I ever questioned was your predictions of 1.0-2.0m dead. I didn’t expect this lock down. But I did think that coronavirus would be episodic and endemic.
As soon as someone calls it The Plaque I stop reading their post.
There’s no hyperbole going on in this crisis?
“The health of Boris is the health of the nation, we need you Prime minister.” Alison Pearson Daily Telegraph.
Disgracefully, Asda and Sainsbury’s are selling meat from Poland instead of using the meat from local farmers.
Sorry, why is this disgraceful???
Why aren’t they supplying meat from local farmers who are finding their normal export markets difficult to access?
Their job is to get people food.
I know that. And there is plenty of delicious well-reared meat on their doorstep there for the buying - and without all those carbon miles.
Sorry but I couldn't disagree more under the circumstances.
There is a major disruption to the entire world economy and supply chains are tearing at the seams. The supermarkets are literally struggling to ensure there is food on the shelves to ensure people can eat. They are struggling to ensure they can deliver that food if they can, so that people can eat.
People being able to put food on their plate with the minimum amount of journeys to the supermarket is the only thing that matters right now, not country of origin.
There is a time and a place to worry about air miles. It is not now. Not today.
What on earth is the problem with Sainsbury’s and Asda buying meat from farmers in the U.K.?
There is no problem, which is why they do normally. The meat I normally see in the supermarkets has a Union Flag and a Red Tractor symbol.
But right now supply chains are falling apart and demand is skyrocketing.
The only issue that matters is ensuring there is stock on the shelves. How do you know the farmers meat supply hasn't been tapped and they need more? You think farmers are being turned away right now?
They need stock. Nothing else matters.
According to local farmers, those two supermarkets are not taking British meat. There may be more to the story but it does seem odd to me, especially since - as you say - we need food.
That doesn't past the 'sniff test', it simply doesn't make sense, there's probably more to that story than meets the eye.
Every time I've been to the supermarket recently the meat shelves have been half empty and choice is very restricted on what is available. I simply don't believe quality British meat is being turned away - and while I always go for Red Tractor meat normally, right now all I want is to get into the supermarket and out again with a full trolley as quickly, safely and infrequently as I can.
Farmed in Lancashire or Latvia, Portsmouth or Poland, Bolton or Bolivia - right now I couldn't care less so long as my family and I have something to eat. If all they have available is imports for some reason then put it on the shelves.
I thought farmed in Portsmouth was a stretch until you said Bolton.
Bolton has plenty of farmland. Noted DJ Sara Cox is the child of Bolton farmers. My best mate at school was too. He remembers meeting her as a teenager and watching cattle mate. As you do.
Trump: "just about every country has chosen to do it [lockdown etc] like us"
Errr, that's another porky.
is it? I think that most western nations have some sort of lock down, as do most US states, the details of the lock downs very across both states and nations. and there are also some states and nations that do not have lock downs.
I did not realist that, the daily updates now seem a lot less permanent.
And why the dip in deaths on the 31 March?
Stats bounce around?
Yet the facts are endlessly dissected and poured over. Traded off against other country’s stats and their re opening measures. Used as political footballs. Glimmers of hope put up in lights. When in actual fact we top ten thousand deaths tomorrow. The first death was a week earlier than first thought, and it was silently spreading through our communities when we were getting bladdered at football, gigs and race courses.
It’s a war, only without air raid sirens and bombs falling.
I don't think it would come as a huge surprise if the UK is ringing around every country who makes ventilators asking if they have spare units. It was one of the strands of the multi-faceted approach.
But no way, Boris has been ringing up breathlessly begging for them between coughing fits.
Can you simply buy and use a US ventilator? Does it need approval, and is it technically compatible with UK medical equipment?
Well, there’s obviously the difference in standard domestic voltages of course, 110v[1] vs 230v,, but it doesn’t follow that specialist equipment like a ventilator would necessarily use standard domestic voltage in either country.
Before embedded computers took over most timing applications, the frequency difference (60mhz in the US, 50mhz in Europe) could sometimes be an issue for equipment that used the supply frequency for time regulation.
I suspect though that the biggest issue might be American machines expecting consumables like hoses to be in fractions of an inch, not metric. Although that said, my experience of American healthcare is that they may tell you your weight etc in pounds, they write it down in kilograms.
[1] Although it’s fairly commonplace to combine two 110v lines from the house breaker panel to produce a 220v supply for heavy duty appliances like electric tumble dryers.
Useless fact: the American president during the 1918 flu epidemic that killed 5% of the world's population, Woodrow Wilson, didn't mention it once in public.
Mind you they did not have TV, internet or even radio in 1918 so he had less need to make a public statement on it
Useless fact: the American president during the 1918 flu epidemic that killed 5% of the world's population, Woodrow Wilson, didn't mention it once in public.
Mind you they did not have TV, internet or even radio in 1918 so he had less need to make a public statement on it
Could he speak in 1918?
Yes he could speak in 1918 he was at Versailles and a victory lap of Europe. But the time the Flu became news he may not have been able to.
They can, and I have difficulty believing they would not if presented with the need to take an urgent decision. Even if they are not grown ups they are advised by grown ups, and they absolutely can do those things at least as fast as the PM could since even a PM does not wield unfettered personal authority and is not exactly blasting of decisions willy nilly with zero reference to anyone, he's not an Emperor.
Added: Am I to believe that if someone came to Raab and was told he had to make a choice, there was not time to run it by the PM, that he would freeze? That he would go against advice it could not wait so he could conference call it? Whether any of the Cabinet has doubts about him being the man for that choice, the position that he is filling in for the PM has been very clearly stated, there is none of the confusion in the communication that people have been so worried about with other matters.
This is the problem though: "If presented with the need to take an urgent decision". With covid19, by the time you're presented with the need to take an urgent decision, it's too late. You have to be proactive, you have to move fast, or you die.
Yes, there'a a committee, and it's reporting to the cabinet, which is another committee. But committees aren't designed to move fast. They're designed to *prevent* fast movement, not to conclude until the evidence is clear and all the angles are considered. This is usually an excellent way to govern: Problems aren't usually as urgent as they appear, and action is often counterproductive. But there are times when that is manifestly unsuited to the problem at hand, and in those rare times, you need *leadership*.
"No power to hire and fire or audience with Queen, but could propose military action"
I mean, does anyone seriously think Raab is likely to be proposing military action in the next few days?
And isn't the statement re the Queen also absurd - if something major now happened and the Queen wanted to speak to someone surely she would speak to Raab? Why wouldn't she? It could hardly cause any harm.
On military action: who knows. Putin could be behaving like a total twat over our airspace by tomorrow night. The Cabinet and NSC will handle it.
Disgracefully, Asda and Sainsbury’s are selling meat from Poland instead of using the meat from local farmers.
Sorry, why is this disgraceful???
Why aren’t they supplying meat from local farmers who are finding their normal export markets difficult to access?
Their job is to get people food.
I know that. And there is plenty of delicious well-reared meat on their doorstep there for the buying - and without all those carbon miles.
Sorry but I couldn't disagree more under the circumstances.
There is a major disruption to the entire world economy and supply chains are tearing at the seams. The supermarkets are literally struggling to ensure there is food on the shelves to ensure people can eat. They are struggling to ensure they can deliver that food if they can, so that people can eat.
People being able to put food on their plate with the minimum amount of journeys to the supermarket is the only thing that matters right now, not country of origin.
There is a time and a place to worry about air miles. It is not now. Not today.
What on earth is the problem with Sainsbury’s and Asda buying meat from farmers in the U.K.?
There is no problem, which is why they do normally. The meat I normally see in the supermarkets has a Union Flag and a Red Tractor symbol.
But right now supply chains are falling apart and demand is skyrocketing.
The only issue that matters is ensuring there is stock on the shelves. How do you know the farmers meat supply hasn't been tapped and they need more? You think farmers are being turned away right now?
They need stock. Nothing else matters.
According to local farmers, those two supermarkets are not taking British meat. There may be more to the story but it does seem odd to me, especially since - as you say - we need food.
That doesn't past the 'sniff test', it simply doesn't make sense, there's probably more to that story than meets the eye.
Every time I've been to the supermarket recently the meat shelves have been half empty and choice is very restricted on what is available. I simply don't believe quality British meat is being turned away - and while I always go for Red Tractor meat normally, right now all I want is to get into the supermarket and out again with a full trolley as quickly, safely and infrequently as I can.
Farmed in Lancashire or Latvia, Portsmouth or Poland, Bolton or Bolivia - right now I couldn't care less so long as my family and I have something to eat. If all they have available is imports for some reason then put it on the shelves.
I thought farmed in Portsmouth was a stretch until you said Bolton.
Bolton has plenty of farmland. Noted DJ Sara Cox is the child of Bolton farmers. My best mate at school was too. He remembers meeting her as a teenager and watching cattle mate. As you do.
Jesus - Raab and Piers, that's an image that's going to make it hard for me to sleep tonight.
When I was about 11 or 12, I recall reading an article in the Guardian (my father got all the broadsheets, in an attempt to teach his children the value of reading a range of views) about the authors old school.
Apparently, since Thatcher had unleashed Change, ghastly ex-working class people with money were turning up and ruining the place with bad manners, and brashly assuming just because they could afford the place they were decent people.
Yes, it was a private school. Harrow IIRC. I remember asking my father why someone who wrote in the Guardian would be upset with working class people making money.....
"The leaders of Norway, Denmark, Czech Republic and Austria have announced plans to relax coronavirus lockdown restrictions.
Schools and day care centres are set to reopen in Denmark on 15 April in what will be the first steps the country is taking to ease its quarantine rules, while Norway will do so five days later."
The thing about this bug is this: it produces surreal dystopian images - of forsaken corpses, temporary morgues and mass graves, which everyone - because of normalcy bias - dismisses as fake, or Russian propaganda, or as wrongly interpreted.
Then it turns out they were real videos. This is what a plague looks like.
My favourite pb example is that video of filled body bags apparently left in the street in Wuhan. I posted this on here in early feb, I believe. At the time it was roundly dismissed. Charles, for example, suggested it was a video showing exhausted workers who had come home and gone to sleep in body bags.
It was no such thing. It was uncollected corpses.
That wasn’t me. The only thing I ever questioned was your predictions of 1.0-2.0m dead. I didn’t expect this lock down. But I did think that coronavirus would be episodic and endemic.
I’m pretty sure it was you. Sorry. You were one of the worst denialists.
As for my predictions, yawn. I never predicted 2m dead. This is so tedious. If you can find a comment where I said that, knock yourself out. Hint: don’t bother. I didn’t say it.
What I did was extrapolate the extreme worst case scenario - by its nature very unlikely - from an infection rate of 80% and a Wuhan style CFR of 3-4%. That gives you millions of dead IN AN EXTREME WORST CASE SCENARIO
A reasonable worst case scenario was 250,000-500,000 British dead in the first year of disease, and indeed it is these figures which shifted HMG from herd immunity to suppression.
No - I just always questioned your numbers. Like @foxy I was early with zinc (in my case Sambucol) and social distancing. I also passed on some of the intelligence I was getting from Mike Pence’s office on travel etc.
You regularly used the reasonable worst case as the base case, which is what I criticised. (The 2m number was in one post about a week or so ago so a little unfair of me to highlight it)
Disgracefully, Asda and Sainsbury’s are selling meat from Poland instead of using the meat from local farmers.
Sorry, why is this disgraceful???
Why aren’t they supplying meat from local farmers who are finding their normal export markets difficult to access?
Their job is to get people food.
I know that. And there is plenty of delicious well-reared meat on their doorstep there for the buying - and without all those carbon miles.
Sorry but I couldn't disagree more under the circumstances.
There is a major disruption to the entire world economy and supply chains are tearing at the seams. The supermarkets are literally struggling to ensure there is food on the shelves to ensure people can eat. They are struggling to ensure they can deliver that food if they can, so that people can eat.
People being able to put food on their plate with the minimum amount of journeys to the supermarket is the only thing that matters right now, not country of origin.
There is a time and a place to worry about air miles. It is not now. Not today.
What on earth is the problem with Sainsbury’s and Asda buying meat from farmers in the U.K.?
There is no problem, which is why they do normally. The meat I normally see in the supermarkets has a Union Flag and a Red Tractor symbol.
But right now supply chains are falling apart and demand is skyrocketing.
The only issue that matters is ensuring there is stock on the shelves. How do you know the farmers meat supply hasn't been tapped and they need more? You think farmers are being turned away right now?
They need stock. Nothing else matters.
According to local farmers, those two supermarkets are not taking British meat. There may be more to the story but it does seem odd to me, especially since - as you say - we need food.
That doesn't past the 'sniff test', it simply doesn't make sense, there's probably more to that story than meets the eye.
Every time I've been to the supermarket recently the meat shelves have been half empty and choice is very restricted on what is available. I simply don't believe quality British meat is being turned away - and while I always go for Red Tractor meat normally, right now all I want is to get into the supermarket and out again with a full trolley as quickly, safely and infrequently as I can.
Farmed in Lancashire or Latvia, Portsmouth or Poland, Bolton or Bolivia - right now I couldn't care less so long as my family and I have something to eat. If all they have available is imports for some reason then put it on the shelves.
I thought farmed in Portsmouth was a stretch until you said Bolton.
Bolton has plenty of farmland. Noted DJ Sara Cox is the child of Bolton farmers. My best mate at school was too. He remembers meeting her as a teenager and watching cattle mate. As you do.
That's entertainment? In rural Bolton obviously.
Gotta make your own fun. Watching cattle mate at a safe 2 metre distance is hawwwt. These days.
Jesus, just listening to an ER doctor in NY. It appears they haven't even sectioned off ER admissions into suspected CV and others (as is standard here), so everybody is sitting there all together. Go with a broken leg and you have to sit there next to somebody coughing their lungs up.
Comments
It's called the Cabinet guys. Take a deep breath.
Literally every question today at the press conference was a variation of what if this happens, will you make a decision. What if the cabinet can't decide, who will have the final say, etc etc etc.
It reminded me of the press obsessions with coming up with the most stupid scenarios and asking if that was ok in terms of lockdown.
"We have a Cabinet system of government"
Should have stuck with counties like Lancashire. Was trying to think of places that sounded alike and those were what came to mind.
My question is why don't any of the news agencies have a medical expert who can ask the questions. Why does the BBC need a political journalist like LauraK to ask an inane question rather than someone who knows what they're talking about?
This whole pandemic is not a great advert for any of our news agencies or the idea we need to pay a compulsory fee to keep them running.
Wow even USA today is getting militant.
Trump.
When the reality is, boring is actually good. Boring that everybody stays home, boring that the NHS doesn't crash and that all the frontline staff are able to just do their jobs, boring that over the course of several months we get past this wave.
And the reality is nobody can magic up 1,000s of ventilators by tomorrow, or able to produce the results from a clinical trial by next week. There is no easy, the Chancellor has opened his cheque book and that is problem solved.
Night all.
Added: Am I to believe that if someone came to Raab and was told he had to make a choice, there was not time to run it by the PM, that he would freeze? That he would go against advice it could not wait so he could conference call it? Whether any of the Cabinet has doubts about him being the man for that choice, the position that he is filling in for the PM has been very clearly stated, there is none of the confusion in the communication that people have been so worried about with other matters.
https://twitter.com/cricketwyvern/status/1247559732501663756?s=20
"No power to hire and fire or audience with Queen, but could propose military action"
I mean, does anyone seriously think Raab is likely to be proposing military action in the next few days?
And isn't the statement re the Queen also absurd - if something major now happened and the Queen wanted to speak to someone surely she would speak to Raab? Why wouldn't she? It could hardly cause any harm.
But no way, Boris has been ringing up breathlessly begging for them between coughing fits.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the only official statistic that says anything much at all is hospital admissions vs hospital discharges.
And why the dip in deaths on the 31 March?
Yes, there'a a committee, and it's reporting to the cabinet, which is another committee. But committees aren't designed to move fast. They're designed to *prevent* fast movement, not to conclude until the evidence is clear and all the angles are considered. This is usually an excellent way to govern: Problems aren't usually as urgent as they appear, and action is often counterproductive. But there are times when that is manifestly unsuited to the problem at hand, and in those rare times, you need *leadership*.
The only thing I ever questioned was your predictions of 1.0-2.0m dead.
I didn’t expect this lock down. But I did think that coronavirus would be episodic and endemic.
I'm unclear how you think the PM takes decisions without being presented with the need to take urgent decisions, or indeed being presented with options on how to respond proactively. And I'm still unclear how someone acting officially as his deputy, without a need any longer to run things by him, could not do the same thing.
What about that is not leadership? It's Cabinet government now, as it was last week, and like last week it is known who is to be leader amongst them. What additional leadership do you think should be in place other than what we have, a named person being able to act as the PM when the PM is not around?
Surely a lack of leadership like that would be if we didn't know who would take the reins of Cabinet? But we do. It's not enough to simply say it is not fast enough, or at least I cannot see how the speed will have decreased.
There’s no hyperbole going on in this crisis?
“The health of Boris is the health of the nation, we need you Prime minister.” Alison Pearson Daily Telegraph.
Pleasant night to all.
It’s a war, only without air raid sirens and bombs falling.
Before embedded computers took over most timing applications, the frequency difference (60mhz in the US, 50mhz in Europe) could sometimes be an issue for equipment that used the supply frequency for time regulation.
I suspect though that the biggest issue might be American machines expecting consumables like hoses to be in fractions of an inch, not metric. Although that said, my experience of American healthcare is that they may tell you your weight etc in pounds, they write it down in kilograms.
[1] Although it’s fairly commonplace to combine two 110v lines from the house breaker panel to produce a 220v supply for heavy duty appliances like electric tumble dryers.
https://twitter.com/cdp1882/status/1247478805888892928?s=21
Apparently, since Thatcher had unleashed Change, ghastly ex-working class people with money were turning up and ruining the place with bad manners, and brashly assuming just because they could afford the place they were decent people.
Yes, it was a private school. Harrow IIRC. I remember asking my father why someone who wrote in the Guardian would be upset with working class people making money.....
Onwards and downwards!
Schools and day care centres are set to reopen in Denmark on 15 April in what will be the first steps the country is taking to ease its quarantine rules, while Norway will do so five days later."
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-the-european-countries-beginning-to-lift-lockdown-measures-11969857
You regularly used the reasonable worst case as the base case, which is what I criticised. (The 2m number was in one post about a week or so ago so a little unfair of me to highlight it)