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  • isamisam Posts: 40,731

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    Lammy??? Lammy????????

    Glad to see Falconer replacing Shami
    Does that make Thornberry SHIT secretary?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Nearly a sixth of the Parliamentary Labour Party is in the shadow Cabinet.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited April 2020

    So Sir Keir wasn't brave enough to sack Rebecca Long Bailey.

    So much for wanting to be taken seriously then.

    On the contrary, that's astute. You don't want to put powerful enemies too far out.

    As Boris is going to discover to his cost. (If he lives through this which I obviously hope to goodness he does.)
  • Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    Not a very nice last sentence in the circumstances
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    Chris said:

    People really shouldn't get the idea that the situation in Austria bears any relation to that in the UK.

    The official figures in the latest WHO report are 11,766 cases and 186 deaths. That is 10 days after the peak in new cases and 5 days after the peak in deaths. Probably not more than 1% of the population has been infected.

    I would guess the percentage infected in the UK is ten times larger, and here neither daily cases nor daily deaths have peaked.

    Another problem that will need to be considered in the next few months is that Italy, Spain, France, the UK and perhaps Germany will have acquired a significant degree of immunity because of the number of people who have been infected, while other countries like Austria will still effectively be virgin territory for any resurgence of the virus.

    Even if, say, a million people had immunity in each of the UK, Spain, Italy and Germany, that would still be a drop in the ocean relative to the overall population. I think we'd need to get to much higher numbers before it would influence the ability of the virus to spread when unmitigated by social distancing.
    Until we have adequate tests it will be guesswork, but I'm thinking more in terms of a quarter of the populations of the UK, Spain, Italy and France having been infected by the Summer.

    A million is much too low an estimate. I'm sure we've far surpassed that.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    That's down quite a bit, isn't it?
    Sunday data always seems to be lower
    It's a 9% increase rather than 14% last Sunday. But you can't read a lot into 1 day's figures.
    Two days. It dropped yesterday as well.
    We should be surely too early to be reaching a lockdown generated peak?

    Given the lockdown was announced late on the 23rd (so took effect essentially from the 24th) and the peak if it is such was for the data on the 4th (meaning data representing the 3rd) then that is an 11 day gap between lockdown and peak.

    Given the estimates of 7 days to show symptoms and 10 days to die on average the gap should surely be 17 days not 11 days?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,287

    TGOHF666 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    And we will miss absolutely none of them, apart from comedy purposes.
    Lost a Butler, gained a Lammy - seems a no score draw.
    David Lammy is wild but he occasionally hits the bullseye like no one else. I'm glad he's closer in than on the fringes.
    He is a true Mastermind.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    ydoethur said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    That’s a very large shadow cabinet,

    Am I right in thinking though that the only shadow minister who served under Blair or Brown (as Shadow Attorney General and Chief Whip are not ministerial) is Ed Miliband, who is a most interesting comeback?
    I am pleased with the way Starmer has axed so many Corbynistas

    Not sure about RLB at education or Lammy at justice.

    But the slaying of Corbynism seems like a breath of fresh air and well done to Starmer

    Please can others enlighten me, but is this a very pro EU shadow cabinet and if so who will stand up for brexit as desired by so many in the red wall seats
    He should be looking at elevating Caroline Flint to the Lords and bringing her in to provide some balance with regards Brexit
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited April 2020
    Cat Smith and Andy McDonald are the Long Bailey's supporters still in. Well, apart from Long Bailey herself.

    McDonald is moved from Transport to Employment Rights and Protections.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    So Sir Keir wasn't brave enough to sack Rebecca Long Bailey.

    So much for wanting to be taken seriously then.

    He has sidelined her - Education isn't going to be a major topic over the coming months. Yes, there are issues around the exam system and reopening. But it isn't going to dominate the headlines.

    I don't see her surviving many reshuffles - unless she ups her game
    Do you want to bet on the former?

    Agree on the latter.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    So Sir Keir wasn't brave enough to sack Rebecca Long Bailey.

    So much for wanting to be taken seriously then.

    On the contrary, that's astute. You don't want to put powerful enemies too far out.

    As Boris is going to discover to his cost. (If he lives through this which I obviously hope to goodness he does.)
    And also they've got the job the other would want (I think).
  • So Sir Keir wasn't brave enough to sack Rebecca Long Bailey.

    So much for wanting to be taken seriously then.

    He has sidelined her - Education isn't going to be a major topic over the coming months. Yes, there are issues around the exam system and reopening. But it isn't going to dominate the headlines.

    I don't see her surviving many reshuffles - unless she ups her game
    Yeah all those parents who feel their teachers have undermarked their kids GCSE and A Levels will ensure Education is quiet.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    Not a very nice last sentence in the circumstances
    Not a very nice thing. How many more people will have died because of the delay in taking measures. You don't think it's polite to ask the question?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    That's down quite a bit, isn't it?
    Sunday data always seems to be lower
    It's a 9% increase rather than 14% last Sunday. But you can't read a lot into 1 day's figures.
    Two days. It dropped yesterday as well.
    We should be surely too early to be reaching a lockdown generated peak?

    Given the lockdown was announced late on the 23rd (so took effect essentially from the 24th) and the peak if it is such was for the data on the 4th (meaning data representing the 3rd) then that is an 11 day gap between lockdown and peak.

    Given the estimates of 7 days to show symptoms and 10 days to die on average the gap should surely be 17 days not 11 days?
    Things were reducing before the 24th. Pubs, Restuarants shut and people starting to work from home, so it might be possible.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    Nearly a sixth of the Parliamentary Labour Party is in the shadow Cabinet.

    Starmer casts a long shadow.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    I like a man who has a self-deprecating sense of humour.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,232

    ydoethur said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    That’s a very large shadow cabinet,

    Am I right in thinking though that the only shadow minister who served under Blair or Brown (as Shadow Attorney General and Chief Whip are not ministerial) is Ed Miliband, who is a most interesting comeback?
    I am pleased with the way Starmer has axed so many Corbynistas

    Not sure about RLB at education or Lammy at justice.

    But the slaying of Corbynism seems like a breath of fresh air and well done to Starmer

    Please can others enlighten me, but is this a very pro EU shadow cabinet and if so who will stand up for brexit as desired by so many in the red wall seats
    He should be looking at elevating Caroline Flint to the Lords and bringing her in to provide some balance with regards Brexit
    Flinty's Brexit stance did her bugger all good at the GE, so I doubt anyone would care or even notice.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    ydoethur said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    That’s a very large shadow cabinet,

    Am I right in thinking though that the only shadow minister who served under Blair or Brown (as Shadow Attorney General and Chief Whip are not ministerial) is Ed Miliband, who is a most interesting comeback?
    I am pleased with the way Starmer has axed so many Corbynistas

    Not sure about RLB at education or Lammy at justice.

    But the slaying of Corbynism seems like a breath of fresh air and well done to Starmer

    Please can others enlighten me, but is this a very pro EU shadow cabinet and if so who will stand up for brexit as desired by so many in the red wall seats
    Brexit has already happened, you need to get over it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    That’s a very large shadow cabinet,

    Am I right in thinking though that the only shadow minister who served under Blair or Brown (as Shadow Attorney General and Chief Whip are not ministerial) is Ed Miliband, who is a most interesting comeback?
    I am pleased with the way Starmer has axed so many Corbynistas

    Not sure about RLB at education or Lammy at justice.

    But the slaying of Corbynism seems like a breath of fresh air and well done to Starmer

    Please can others enlighten me, but is this a very pro EU shadow cabinet and if so who will stand up for brexit as desired by so many in the red wall seats
    He should be looking at elevating Caroline Flint to the Lords and bringing her in to provide some balance with regards Brexit
    Flinty's Brexit stance did her bugger all good at the GE, so I doubt anyone would care or even notice.
    Yeah, she got Don over by her constituents despite Brexit.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Scott_xP said:

    Do you really think there's any purpose to this endless Tweet-whining? [Tweening? Twhining?]

    It winds up all the right people here...
    ...because that's what's really so important right now...
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,997

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    That's down quite a bit, isn't it?
    Sunday data always seems to be lower
    It's a 9% increase rather than 14% last Sunday. But you can't read a lot into 1 day's figures.
    Two days. It dropped yesterday as well.
    We should be surely too early to be reaching a lockdown generated peak?

    Given the lockdown was announced late on the 23rd (so took effect essentially from the 24th) and the peak if it is such was for the data on the 4th (meaning data representing the 3rd) then that is an 11 day gap between lockdown and peak.

    Given the estimates of 7 days to show symptoms and 10 days to die on average the gap should surely be 17 days not 11 days?
    We were told to start social distancing from the previous Tuesday (it was announced on Monday 17th) and the pubs closed on .Friday 21st, many immediately, mass events had already been cancelled. So it is possible that even a proportional decline in contacts might have had an effect - as the Swedes would have it
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    Not a very nice last sentence in the circumstances
    Not a very nice thing. How many more people will have died because of the delay in taking measures. You don't think it's polite to ask the question?
    You weren't asking the question, you were stating what you think is the answer, in extremely partisan and TBH offensive terms. But no doubt in your favour you'll be able to point us to your posts showing how much ahead of the government you were,
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    That's down quite a bit, isn't it?
    Sunday data always seems to be lower
    It's a 9% increase rather than 14% last Sunday. But you can't read a lot into 1 day's figures.
    Two days. It dropped yesterday as well.
    We should be surely too early to be reaching a lockdown generated peak?

    Given the lockdown was announced late on the 23rd (so took effect essentially from the 24th) and the peak if it is such was for the data on the 4th (meaning data representing the 3rd) then that is an 11 day gap between lockdown and peak.

    Given the estimates of 7 days to show symptoms and 10 days to die on average the gap should surely be 17 days not 11 days?
    Things were reducing before the 24th. Pubs, Restuarants shut and people starting to work from home, so it might be possible.
    Pubs were told to close on the night of the 20th, so the 21st was the first day of shutdown if you want to drag it that far. So that's 14 days - close to the 17 but given the exponential growth factor it does still seem a narrower gap that was expected from shutdown to peak if indeed the peak has been reached.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    That's English figures, isn't it? Not UK ones?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:
    That's down quite a bit, isn't it?
    Sunday data always seems to be lower
    It's a 9% increase rather than 14% last Sunday. But you can't read a lot into 1 day's figures.
    Two days. It dropped yesterday as well.
    We should be surely too early to be reaching a lockdown generated peak?

    Given the lockdown was announced late on the 23rd (so took effect essentially from the 24th) and the peak if it is such was for the data on the 4th (meaning data representing the 3rd) then that is an 11 day gap between lockdown and peak.

    Given the estimates of 7 days to show symptoms and 10 days to die on average the gap should surely be 17 days not 11 days?
    Things were reducing before the 24th. Pubs, Restuarants shut and people starting to work from home, so it might be possible.
    Pubs were told to close on the night of the 20th, so the 21st was the first day of shutdown if you want to drag it that far. So that's 14 days - close to the 17 but given the exponential growth factor it does still seem a narrower gap that was expected from shutdown to peak if indeed the peak has been reached.
    A lot of people were starting to work from home etc in the week starting the 16th
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    That’s a very large shadow cabinet,

    Am I right in thinking though that the only shadow minister who served under Blair or Brown (as Shadow Attorney General and Chief Whip are not ministerial) is Ed Miliband, who is a most interesting comeback?
    I am pleased with the way Starmer has axed so many Corbynistas

    Not sure about RLB at education or Lammy at justice.

    But the slaying of Corbynism seems like a breath of fresh air and well done to Starmer

    Please can others enlighten me, but is this a very pro EU shadow cabinet and if so who will stand up for brexit as desired by so many in the red wall seats
    He should be looking at elevating Caroline Flint to the Lords and bringing her in to provide some balance with regards Brexit
    Flinty's Brexit stance did her bugger all good at the GE, so I doubt anyone would care or even notice.
    Yeah, she got Don over by her constituents despite Brexit.
    That`s appalling but I Liked it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    ydoethur said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    That’s a very large shadow cabinet,

    Am I right in thinking though that the only shadow minister who served under Blair or Brown (as Shadow Attorney General and Chief Whip are not ministerial) is Ed Miliband, who is a most interesting comeback?
    I am pleased with the way Starmer has axed so many Corbynistas

    Not sure about RLB at education or Lammy at justice.

    But the slaying of Corbynism seems like a breath of fresh air and well done to Starmer

    Please can others enlighten me, but is this a very pro EU shadow cabinet and if so who will stand up for brexit as desired by so many in the red wall seats
    He should be looking at elevating Caroline Flint to the Lords and bringing her in to provide some balance with regards Brexit
    Flinty's Brexit stance did her bugger all good at the GE, so I doubt anyone would care or even notice.
    We dont know that it did no good, all we can say for certain is it did not do her enough good.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eadric said:
    It would be good for science if they do.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    So Sir Keir wasn't brave enough to sack Rebecca Long Bailey.

    So much for wanting to be taken seriously then.

    Having an uber-Lefty face off to the teachers is a smart move.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900


    We should be surely too early to be reaching a lockdown generated peak?

    Italy and Spain seem to suggest just shy of 3 weeks from date of lockdown to the peak of fatalities.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TGOHF666 said:

    Scott_xP said:
    And we will miss absolutely none of them, apart from comedy purposes.
    Lost a Butler, gained a Lammy - seems a no score draw.
    David Lammy is wild but he occasionally hits the bullseye like no one else. I'm glad he's closer in than on the fringes.
    I agree with that he was bang on with his anti-Luvvie white saviour stuff.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Scott_xP said:
    I think all of these journalists really ought to be seconded to the NHS - their medical skills even when operating entirely remotely are so good - they can give fully informed advice without even seeing a patient... or having a single medical qualification. Extraordinary.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    So Sir Keir wasn't brave enough to sack Rebecca Long Bailey.

    So much for wanting to be taken seriously then.

    He has sidelined her - Education isn't going to be a major topic over the coming months. Yes, there are issues around the exam system and reopening. But it isn't going to dominate the headlines.

    I don't see her surviving many reshuffles - unless she ups her game
    Yeah all those parents who feel their teachers have undermarked their kids GCSE and A Levels will ensure Education is quiet.
    The issue will come not from the teachers (who are doing their best to be honest and fair from the conversations I have had) but from the exam boards and how they handle moderation.

    There was never going to be an easy way of deal with exams through a crisis like this - and the plans seem to be designed to be as fair as possible.

    There are always parents who feel unhappy at the outcome of exams. But it isn't a major political storm. It is some grumbling and that is about it.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820


    A lot of people were starting to work from home etc in the week starting the 16th

    In fact even earlier than that - things were definitely winding down the week before that.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    tlg86 said:
    Jesus - that wasn`t until mid-July. Our summer holiday for first week in July is starting to look rocky.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    Latest poll showing a 6% Biden lead over Trump in Florida:
    https://www.unf.edu/uploadedFiles/aa/coas/porl/UNF PORL COVID-19 Survey.pdf
  • Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    Not a very nice last sentence in the circumstances
    Not a very nice thing. How many more people will have died because of the delay in taking measures. You don't think it's polite to ask the question?
    Not as Boris lies in a hospital with a deadly disease and has a pregnant fiancee also with covid

    A day will come at some time in the future when all the statistics from all countries across the world wil be there for analysis and enquiry and lessons learnt

    And if blame is apportioned it will be from the science followed and actions taken by all those on Cobra including cross party first ministers, not one individual player
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    edited April 2020
    eadric said:
    Those are deaths from infections from a couple of weeks ago. So even an immediate change of policy is not going to offer respite soon.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    Not a very nice last sentence in the circumstances
    Not a very nice thing. How many more people will have died because of the delay in taking measures. You don't think it's polite to ask the question?
    You weren't asking the question, you were stating what you think is the answer, in extremely partisan and TBH offensive terms. But no doubt in your favour you'll be able to point us to your posts showing how much ahead of the government you were,
    Quite frankly, given what's happened, I think the onus is on those who think the "herd immunity" nonsense _wasn't_ a mistake to prove their point.

    Yes - I think that strategy has cost many lives, and will cost many more. If you think differently, make your argument, but don't whine about it being "offensive" to state the opinion that it's cost many lives. Get real, and have more respect for the victims of this almighty cock-up.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    I am granting you absolute control over the country and the ability to go back in time to Jan 1st (further back by request).

    What would you have done and what would, under your plan, the death toll have been.

    TIA
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    TOPPING said:

    So Sir Keir wasn't brave enough to sack Rebecca Long Bailey.

    So much for wanting to be taken seriously then.

    Having an uber-Lefty face off to the teachers is a smart move.
    She’s too good a communicator to ditch.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    edited April 2020
    Miliband back to shadow Energy.

    His green nonsense was the start, continued under the Coalition and right now, of some bloody stupid energy policy decisions.

    Edited extra bit: ahem, that said, it's still obviously a massive general improvement.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851

    On the contrary, I'm simply observing how those opponents define themselves. One has only to glance at tomes such as 'Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race', which are not merely tolerated by the Left but lauded and feted as models of their type, to know exactly what they believe.

    Which is what you have probably done - glanced at it. Then fleshed out your knowledge with the Douglas Murray review. Personally, I don't see the problem in having a black person try to explain how in their opinion white people do not and cannot truly understand racism. In fact I see value in that. I don't need to agree with every bit of it for this to be the case. And I don't need to be "self loathing". I just need to be interested and open minded. The people who react with defensive, knee-jerk aversion are likely to be neither of these things.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    Nigelb said:

    Latest poll showing a 6% Biden lead over Trump in Florida:
    https://www.unf.edu/uploadedFiles/aa/coas/porl/UNF PORL COVID-19 Survey.pdf

    I`ve laid him some more for next president. I have a large position against him winning now.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    felix said:

    I think all of these journalists really ought to be seconded to the NHS - their medical skills even when operating entirely remotely are so good - they can give fully informed advice without even seeing a patient... or having a single medical qualification. Extraordinary.

    The sheer ignorance of much of the political pundit class when it comes to a subject that is well off the beaten path for them has been quite instructive for us to see.
  • ydoethur said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    That’s a very large shadow cabinet,

    Am I right in thinking though that the only shadow minister who served under Blair or Brown (as Shadow Attorney General and Chief Whip are not ministerial) is Ed Miliband, who is a most interesting comeback?
    I am pleased with the way Starmer has axed so many Corbynistas

    Not sure about RLB at education or Lammy at justice.

    But the slaying of Corbynism seems like a breath of fresh air and well done to Starmer

    Please can others enlighten me, but is this a very pro EU shadow cabinet and if so who will stand up for brexit as desired by so many in the red wall seats
    Brexit has already happened, you need to get over it.
    Not really. A trade deal has to be agreed and no deal is still on the table

    And can you respond to a fair question, is this a remain shadow cabinet
  • Stocky said:

    tlg86 said:
    Jesus - that wasn`t until mid-July. Our summer holiday for first week in July is starting to look rocky.
    Isn’t that more that they have to spend several months getting the fairways up to professional standards.

    They can’t do it in a few weeks.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    kle4 said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    Lammy??? Lammy????????

    Glad to see Falconer replacing Shami
    Sold out her principles and now doesnt even have a shadow cabinet gig to show for it. I wonder if it was worth it.
    She is a Lady, though!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653

    Stocky said:

    tlg86 said:
    Jesus - that wasn`t until mid-July. Our summer holiday for first week in July is starting to look rocky.
    Isn’t that more that they have to spend several months getting the fairways up to professional standards.

    They can’t do it in a few weeks.
    True, but the golf courses round here are being kept immaculate even though no-one is playing. The green staff are still working. I saw them out today.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    I don't mind Keir's shadow cabinet.

    It's fitting that Ed's back, because to my mind at least it does feel like that sort of policy position overall.
  • Really happy with that Shadow Cabinet.

    Pragmatic, non-ideological, I can really imagine this lot running the country.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    ydoethur said:

    I like a man who has a self-deprecating sense of humour.
    Snooty Jonathon was being serious.

    Don’t be won over by these Uber bland centre lefties. If they get into government it’s a tragedy for Britain as we will miss chance for the radical change we need.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    Not a very nice last sentence in the circumstances
    Not a very nice thing. How many more people will have died because of the delay in taking measures. You don't think it's polite to ask the question?
    Not as Boris lies in a hospital with a deadly disease and has a pregnant fiancee also with covid

    A day will come at some time in the future when all the statistics from all countries across the world wil be there for analysis and enquiry and lessons learnt

    And if blame is apportioned it will be from the science followed and actions taken by all those on Cobra including cross party first ministers, not one individual player
    Good. I look forward to the blame being apportioned. I only hope that is done in the context of full transparency about the scientific advice given to the politicians.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    Really happy with that Shadow Cabinet.

    Pragmatic, non-ideological, I can really imagine this lot running the country.

    You couldn't imagine the past lot doing the same? :p
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Andrew said:


    We should be surely too early to be reaching a lockdown generated peak?

    Italy and Spain seem to suggest just shy of 3 weeks from date of lockdown to the peak of fatalities.

    The argument being made here is that things were ramped up to the current situation over a period of > 1 week. So, if those initial measures has any effect, we should be seeing them now. If only the lockdown had an effect, then its Easter weekend.
  • RobD said:

    Really happy with that Shadow Cabinet.

    Pragmatic, non-ideological, I can really imagine this lot running the country.

    You couldn't imagine the past lot doing the same? :p
    Is that your favourite emoji?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    edited April 2020
    glw said:

    felix said:

    I think all of these journalists really ought to be seconded to the NHS - their medical skills even when operating entirely remotely are so good - they can give fully informed advice without even seeing a patient... or having a single medical qualification. Extraordinary.

    The sheer ignorance of much of the political pundit class when it comes to a subject that is well off the beaten path for them has been quite instructive for us to see.
    A perfect example of where alleged generalists get the main gig - because the "specialists" are too specialised to be allowed to use their knowledge.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Good to see the wilful misinterpretation of 'herd immunity' by a hold-out few is still not unchecked by such things as facts or basic human decency.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    Really happy with that Shadow Cabinet.

    Pragmatic, non-ideological, I can really imagine this lot running the country.

    You couldn't imagine the past lot doing the same? :p
    Is that your favourite emoji?
    Not really, I was just being cheeky about comparing this post to your posts immediately prior to the election.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    ydoethur said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    That’s a very large shadow cabinet,

    Am I right in thinking though that the only shadow minister who served under Blair or Brown (as Shadow Attorney General and Chief Whip are not ministerial) is Ed Miliband, who is a most interesting comeback?
    I am pleased with the way Starmer has axed so many Corbynistas

    Not sure about RLB at education or Lammy at justice.

    But the slaying of Corbynism seems like a breath of fresh air and well done to Starmer

    Please can others enlighten me, but is this a very pro EU shadow cabinet and if so who will stand up for brexit as desired by so many in the red wall seats
    Brexit has already happened, you need to get over it.
    Not really. A trade deal has to be agreed and no deal is still on the table

    And can you respond to a fair question, is this a remain shadow cabinet
    Would you be tempted to vote Labour if it was, Big G? Where are you now on the whole Leave/Remain thing?
  • Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    Not a very nice last sentence in the circumstances
    Not a very nice thing. How many more people will have died because of the delay in taking measures. You don't think it's polite to ask the question?
    Not as Boris lies in a hospital with a deadly disease and has a pregnant fiancee also with covid

    A day will come at some time in the future when all the statistics from all countries across the world wil be there for analysis and enquiry and lessons learnt

    And if blame is apportioned it will be from the science followed and actions taken by all those on Cobra including cross party first ministers, not one individual player
    Good. I look forward to the blame being apportioned. I only hope that is done in the context of full transparency about the scientific advice given to the politicians.
    I am sure there will be many enquiries into these events

    Looks as if Sweden are having serious problems now
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    I don't mind Keir's shadow cabinet.

    It's fitting that Ed's back, because to my mind at least it does feel like that sort of policy position overall.

    Shami gone I see.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I think all of these journalists really ought to be seconded to the NHS - their medical skills even when operating entirely remotely are so good - they can give fully informed advice without even seeing a patient... or having a single medical qualification. Extraordinary.
    Do I understand that Coronavirus cannot live on paper? Thought it could.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Really happy with that Shadow Cabinet.

    Pragmatic, non-ideological, I can really imagine this lot running the country.

    You couldn't imagine the past lot doing the same? :p
    Is that your favourite emoji?
    Not really, I was just being cheeky about comparing this post to your posts immediately prior to the election.
    quite .

    something something period of extended quiet something
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Really happy with that Shadow Cabinet.

    Pragmatic, non-ideological, I can really imagine this lot running the country.

    You couldn't imagine the past lot doing the same? :p
    Is that your favourite emoji?
    Not really, I was just being cheeky about comparing this post to your posts immediately prior to the election.
    I could imagine the last lot running the country - the problem is nobody else could.

    This lot, I genuinely think a lot of people could.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Borough, is she the only peer that Corbyn appointed?

    Or do others share in that august privilege?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited April 2020

    ydoethur said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    That’s a very large shadow cabinet,

    Am I right in thinking though that the only shadow minister who served under Blair or Brown (as Shadow Attorney General and Chief Whip are not ministerial) is Ed Miliband, who is a most interesting comeback?
    I am pleased with the way Starmer has axed so many Corbynistas

    Not sure about RLB at education or Lammy at justice.

    But the slaying of Corbynism seems like a breath of fresh air and well done to Starmer

    Please can others enlighten me, but is this a very pro EU shadow cabinet and if so who will stand up for brexit as desired by so many in the red wall seats
    Brexit has already happened, you need to get over it.
    Not really. A trade deal has to be agreed and no deal is still on the table

    And can you respond to a fair question, is this a remain shadow cabinet
    What has that got to do with the shadow cabinet being “pro EU” or “remain”? Brexit has already happened. It can no longer be frustrated.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    glw said:

    eadric said:
    Those are deaths from infections from a couple of weeks ago. So even an immediate change of policy is not going to offer respite soon.
    And a belated change even later.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    edited April 2020
    kinabalu said:

    On the contrary, I'm simply observing how those opponents define themselves. One has only to glance at tomes such as 'Why I'm No Longer Talking to White People About Race', which are not merely tolerated by the Left but lauded and feted as models of their type, to know exactly what they believe.

    Which is what you have probably done - glanced at it. Then fleshed out your knowledge with the Douglas Murray review. Personally, I don't see the problem in having a black person try to explain how in their opinion white people do not and cannot truly understand racism. In fact I see value in that. I don't need to agree with every bit of it for this to be the case. And I don't need to be "self loathing". I just need to be interested and open minded. The people who react with defensive, knee-jerk aversion are likely to be neither of these things.
    Agree with most of that, but note that the thing that irritates both conservatives and liberals is the collectivist urge to categorise people into groups/communities rather than seeing people as individuals.

    For example, liberals take pride in "not seeing colour". They think this is to their credit. But some on the left think this is absolutely wrong - insisting that early doors you have to treat people as being victims of the group that they themselves regard that person as being part of. Which is usually just in their minds. The one that irritates me the most is "the LGBT community".

    Starmer has got to distance the party from this way of thinking to have any chance of winning back support in sufficient numbers.
  • Pro-EU cabinet is meaningless waffle.

    I suspect they're pro EEA, which most of the country could get behind.

    Leave/Remain is over. We have left.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625

    felix said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I think all of these journalists really ought to be seconded to the NHS - their medical skills even when operating entirely remotely are so good - they can give fully informed advice without even seeing a patient... or having a single medical qualification. Extraordinary.
    Do I understand that Coronavirus cannot live on paper? Thought it could.
    There was a study about the survival of the virus on surfaces - the main feature of which was that while fragments of RNA could be detected for a period (days), a viable virus was only present for a very short time - minutes.

    What this meant was that a test for the viruses genetic material was finding fragments of virus, blown to pieces, not actual viruses.

    Can someone find the link?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited April 2020

    Good to see the wilful misinterpretation of 'herd immunity' by a hold-out few is still not unchecked by such things as facts or basic human decency.

    I’m afraid it seems likely your implicit plea will go unherd.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Stocky said:

    tlg86 said:
    Jesus - that wasn`t until mid-July. Our summer holiday for first week in July is starting to look rocky.
    Isn’t that more that they have to spend several months getting the fairways up to professional standards.

    They can’t do it in a few weeks.
    It will be more about participants willingness to fly from all round the world. Even when this is ‘cracked’ in Europe many other parts of the world will only just be peaking making intercontinental air travel unattractive.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited April 2020

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Really happy with that Shadow Cabinet.

    Pragmatic, non-ideological, I can really imagine this lot running the country.

    You couldn't imagine the past lot doing the same? :p
    Is that your favourite emoji?
    Not really, I was just being cheeky about comparing this post to your posts immediately prior to the election.
    I could imagine the last lot running the country - the problem is nobody else could.

    This lot, I genuinely think a lot of people could.
    Interesting, I thought you were referring to characteristics that you thought were different from the past shadow cabinet, otherwise why would you highlight them?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Really happy with that Shadow Cabinet.

    Pragmatic, non-ideological, I can really imagine this lot running the country.

    You couldn't imagine the past lot doing the same? :p
    Is that your favourite emoji?
    Not really, I was just being cheeky about comparing this post to your posts immediately prior to the election.
    I could imagine the last lot running the country - the problem is nobody else could...
    On the contrary, most people could, and wanted to avoid it like... well, the plague.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    eadric said:

    Stocky said:

    tlg86 said:
    Jesus - that wasn`t until mid-July. Our summer holiday for first week in July is starting to look rocky.
    I don't believe there will be any significant foreign travel until the Autumn. Maybe not for a year.

    So many countries will have ongoing restrictions. Travel insurance will be a nightmare.

    The economic costs of this awful virus are now visible, over the peak. They will be tremendous. None of us will have seen the like.
    Yep.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    Not a very nice last sentence in the circumstances
    Not a very nice thing. How many more people will have died because of the delay in taking measures. You don't think it's polite to ask the question?
    You weren't asking the question, you were stating what you think is the answer, in extremely partisan and TBH offensive terms. But no doubt in your favour you'll be able to point us to your posts showing how much ahead of the government you were,
    Quite frankly, given what's happened, I think the onus is on those who think the "herd immunity" nonsense _wasn't_ a mistake to prove their point.

    Yes - I think that strategy has cost many lives, and will cost many more. If you think differently, make your argument, but don't whine about it being "offensive" to state the opinion that it's cost many lives. Get real, and have more respect for the victims of this almighty cock-up.
    Nothing wrong with stating an opinion, albeit with hindsight and on incredibly scant information - the truth is that no-one knows whether the UK government's approach has been optimal or not - but if you don't see that "I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time" is offensive, then I'm afraid the problem is entirely yours.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Really happy with that Shadow Cabinet.

    Pragmatic, non-ideological, I can really imagine this lot running the country.

    You couldn't imagine the past lot doing the same? :p
    Is that your favourite emoji?
    Not really, I was just being cheeky about comparing this post to your posts immediately prior to the election.
    I could imagine the last lot running the country - the problem is nobody else could.
    That’s not true. It was easy to imagine them running the country. Particularly late at night after too good a dinner.

    That was why I didn’t vote for them.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Really happy with that Shadow Cabinet.

    Pragmatic, non-ideological, I can really imagine this lot running the country.

    You couldn't imagine the past lot doing the same? :p
    Is that your favourite emoji?
    Not really, I was just being cheeky about comparing this post to your posts immediately prior to the election.
    I could imagine the last lot running the country - the problem is nobody else could.

    This lot, I genuinely think a lot of people could.
    Interesting, I thought you were referring to characteristics that you thought were different from the past cabinet, otherwise why would you highlight them?
    Yes, they are different characteristics.

    The last lot overall represented ideas - at least in 2017, less keen on 2019 - that I wanted to see.

    This lot I don't know really where they stand except being broadly on the left - but they look more professional and "traditional" I suppose.

    The qualities I thought made people electable, I was wrong. I've held my hands up many times.
  • ydoethur said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    That’s a very large shadow cabinet,

    Am I right in thinking though that the only shadow minister who served under Blair or Brown (as Shadow Attorney General and Chief Whip are not ministerial) is Ed Miliband, who is a most interesting comeback?
    I am pleased with the way Starmer has axed so many Corbynistas

    Not sure about RLB at education or Lammy at justice.

    But the slaying of Corbynism seems like a breath of fresh air and well done to Starmer

    Please can others enlighten me, but is this a very pro EU shadow cabinet and if so who will stand up for brexit as desired by so many in the red wall seats
    Brexit has already happened, you need to get over it.
    Not really. A trade deal has to be agreed and no deal is still on the table

    And can you respond to a fair question, is this a remain shadow cabinet
    What has that got to do with the shadow cabinet being “pro EU” or “remain”? Brexit has already happened. It can no longer be frustrated.
    Yes it can.

    Extended transistion moving towards BINO is likely the aim of Starmer and if so we may as well stay in, though how anyone explains the eurozone debt liabilities to the voters together with billions of payments into the EU is another matter
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    Big_Ian said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    What about schools? Or did they never shut?
    Would they be on school holidays at that point anyway?
    No, they're pretty similar to ours, around the start of July. No date set for opening schools there, which makes sense, given that they are trying to avoid creating spaces for the virus to spread quickly and easily.

    "“We reacted faster and more restrictively than in other countries and could therefore avoid the worst. But this fast and restrictive reaction now also gives us the possibility to come out of this crisis more quickly,” Kurz told a news conference."

    We didn't, so we can't.

    "However, only one shopper per 20 square metres of shop space will be allowed."

    So, don't expect too much.


  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    Good to see the wilful misinterpretation of 'herd immunity' by a hold-out few is still not unchecked by such things as facts or basic human decency.

    I don't even know what that means, but there's no doubt that in the early stages the UK government's policy was to manage the infection of around 60% of the population with this virus, with most of the infections happening over roughly a two-month period in May and June.

    That was an insane policy, and it prevented early measures being taken that could have saved many lives. I really hope that the responsibility for that policy, and for the unnecessary deaths, will be laid at the right doors. But I am not optimistic.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited April 2020

    ydoethur said:

    Full Shadow Cabinet

    Keir Starmer, Leader of the Opposition
    Angela Rayner, Deputy Leader and Chair of the Labour Party
    Anneliese Dodds, Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
    Lisa Nandy, Shadow Foreign Secretary
    Nick Thomas-Symonds, Shadow Home Secretary
    Rachel Reeves, Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
    David Lammy, Shadow Justice Secretary
    John Healey, Shadow Defence Secretary
    Ed Miliband, Shadow Business, Energy and Industrial Secretary
    Emily Thornberry, Shadow International Trade Secretary
    Jonathan Reynolds, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary
    Jonathan Ashworth, Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care
    Rebecca Long-Bailey, Shadow Education Secretary
    Jo Stevens, Shadow Digital, Culture, Media and Sport
    Bridget Philipson, Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury
    Luke Pollard, Shadow Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Secretary
    Steve Reed, Shadow Communities and Local Government Secretary
    Thangam Debbonaire, Shadow Housing Secretary
    Jim McMahon, Shadow Transport Secretary
    Preet Kaur Gill, Shadow International Development Secretary
    Louise Haigh, Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary (interim)
    Ian Murray, Shadow Scotland Secretary
    Nia Griffith, Shadow Wales Secretary
    Marsha de Cordova, Shadow Women and Equalities Secretary
    Andy McDonald, Shadow Employment Rights and Protections Secretary
    Rosena Allin-Khan, Shadow Minister for Mental Health
    Cat Smith, Shadow Minister for Young People and Voter Engagement
    Lord Falconer, Shadow Attorney General
    Valerie Vaz, Shadow Leader of the House
    Nick Brown, Opposition Chief Whip
    Baroness Smith, Shadow Leader of the Lords
    Lord McAvoy, Lords’ Opposition Chief Whip

    That’s a very large shadow cabinet,

    Am I right in thinking though that the only shadow minister who served under Blair or Brown (as Shadow Attorney General and Chief Whip are not ministerial) is Ed Miliband, who is a most interesting comeback?
    I am pleased with the way Starmer has axed so many Corbynistas

    Not sure about RLB at education or Lammy at justice.

    But the slaying of Corbynism seems like a breath of fresh air and well done to Starmer

    Please can others enlighten me, but is this a very pro EU shadow cabinet and if so who will stand up for brexit as desired by so many in the red wall seats
    Brexit has already happened, you need to get over it.
    Not really. A trade deal has to be agreed and no deal is still on the table

    And can you respond to a fair question, is this a remain shadow cabinet
    What has that got to do with the shadow cabinet being “pro EU” or “remain”? Brexit has already happened. It can no longer be frustrated.
    Yes it can.

    Extended transistion moving towards BINO is likely the aim of Starmer and if so we may as well stay in, though how anyone explains the eurozone debt liabilities to the voters together with billions of payments into the EU is another matter
    The idea EEA is like being in the EU is absolute nonsense.

    There is no such thing as Brexit in name only, we have left. We are out of the EU.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    Not a very nice last sentence in the circumstances
    Not a very nice thing. How many more people will have died because of the delay in taking measures. You don't think it's polite to ask the question?
    You weren't asking the question, you were stating what you think is the answer, in extremely partisan and TBH offensive terms. But no doubt in your favour you'll be able to point us to your posts showing how much ahead of the government you were,
    Quite frankly, given what's happened, I think the onus is on those who think the "herd immunity" nonsense _wasn't_ a mistake to prove their point.

    Yes - I think that strategy has cost many lives, and will cost many more. If you think differently, make your argument, but don't whine about it being "offensive" to state the opinion that it's cost many lives. Get real, and have more respect for the victims of this almighty cock-up.
    Nothing wrong with stating an opinion, albeit with hindsight and on incredibly scant information - the truth is that no-one knows whether the UK government's approach has been optimal or not - but if you don't see that "I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time" is offensive, then I'm afraid the problem is entirely yours.
    Richard please don't interrupt or distract Chris as he is about to let us know how he would have handled the crisis since Jan 1st, thereby avoiding (I presume) all these deaths. I for one am looking forward to the gold standard, we will all be studying this in 50 years time answer he is shortly to provide.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 9,653
    eadric said:

    Stocky said:

    tlg86 said:
    Jesus - that wasn`t until mid-July. Our summer holiday for first week in July is starting to look rocky.
    I don't believe there will be any significant foreign travel until the Autumn. Maybe not for a year.

    So many countries will have ongoing restrictions. Travel insurance will be a nightmare.

    The economic costs of this awful virus are now visible, over the peak. They will be tremendous. None of us will have seen the like.
    Agreed. For some people the scale of both the health impacts and economic catastrophe still isn`t fully appreciated I feel - the penny yet to drop.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Norway is a sparsely populated country, a lot of which can only be reached by car ferries

    Not a comparision at all
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    edited April 2020
    eadric said:
    Their numbers are still pretty low for a country with 10 million people. Compare with Belgium which has had 4 times as many deaths for a similar population.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    TOPPING said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    Not a very nice last sentence in the circumstances
    Not a very nice thing. How many more people will have died because of the delay in taking measures. You don't think it's polite to ask the question?
    You weren't asking the question, you were stating what you think is the answer, in extremely partisan and TBH offensive terms. But no doubt in your favour you'll be able to point us to your posts showing how much ahead of the government you were,
    Quite frankly, given what's happened, I think the onus is on those who think the "herd immunity" nonsense _wasn't_ a mistake to prove their point.

    Yes - I think that strategy has cost many lives, and will cost many more. If you think differently, make your argument, but don't whine about it being "offensive" to state the opinion that it's cost many lives. Get real, and have more respect for the victims of this almighty cock-up.
    Nothing wrong with stating an opinion, albeit with hindsight and on incredibly scant information - the truth is that no-one knows whether the UK government's approach has been optimal or not - but if you don't see that "I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time" is offensive, then I'm afraid the problem is entirely yours.
    Richard please don't interrupt or distract Chris as he is about to let us know how he would have handled the crisis since Jan 1st, thereby avoiding (I presume) all these deaths. I for one am looking forward to the gold standard, we will all be studying this in 50 years time answer he is shortly to provide.
    Good point, I'm particularly looking forward to seeing his posts from January and February where he laid out the detail which the government wilfully ignored.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960

    Mr. Borough, is she the only peer that Corbyn appointed?

    Or do others share in that august privilege?

    Osamor Sr for one. He tried to nominate Bercow, but that seems to have been held up. Ditto Karie Murphy and Tom Watson.

    In fact, have all of Corbyn's dissolution honours nominations been held up for being inappropriate?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    On another note, and of no interest whatsoever, the most recent passing out parade at Sandhurst, I see from a bulletin, was conducted in combats, the first time it has not been in ceremonial dress since the second world war.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    Mr. Borough, is she the only peer that Corbyn appointed?

    Or do others share in that august privilege?

    Didn't he nominate some that have been held up by the committee?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Stocky said:

    tlg86 said:
    Jesus - that wasn`t until mid-July. Our summer holiday for first week in July is starting to look rocky.
    I don't believe there will be any significant foreign travel until the Autumn. Maybe not for a year.

    So many countries will have ongoing restrictions. Travel insurance will be a nightmare.

    The economic costs of this awful virus are now visible, over the peak. They will be tremendous. None of us will have seen the like.
    Yep.
    The French Finance Minister has just said it will be France's worst economic shock since World War 2. And of course we might yet get a 2nd wave... and we're not out of the 1st...

    Grim grim grim. I am very pessimistic today - economically, not medically.

    Tho I do fear for Boris. There are hints he is on a ventilator. The stats with regard to survival and recovery, once you reach that stage, are not good.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/03/coronavirus-survivors-recovery/
    Didn't those hints come from the Russian media?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,286
    "World's 1.3 billion smokers urged to quit to reduce COVID-19 risks

    The tobacco industry is urged to stop producing as evidence shows smokers who with COVID-19 become more seriously ill."

    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-japan-poised-to-declare-state-of-emergency-in-bid-to-contain-outbreak-11969115
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    I have this awful foreboding that we're on the verge of emerging from the worst of this but Charon the ferryman will have been paid with Boris.

    I hope the former is right and the latter wrong.

    It seems COVID hospital admissions are running at something like 13,000 a day, while deaths are a twentieth of that. Admittedly there is a time lag, but the numbers are on Boris Johnson's side, and I'm convinced he will get adequate care if anyone does.

    I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time.
    Not a very nice last sentence in the circumstances
    Not a very nice thing. How many more people will have died because of the delay in taking measures. You don't think it's polite to ask the question?
    You weren't asking the question, you were stating what you think is the answer, in extremely partisan and TBH offensive terms. But no doubt in your favour you'll be able to point us to your posts showing how much ahead of the government you were,
    Quite frankly, given what's happened, I think the onus is on those who think the "herd immunity" nonsense _wasn't_ a mistake to prove their point.

    Yes - I think that strategy has cost many lives, and will cost many more. If you think differently, make your argument, but don't whine about it being "offensive" to state the opinion that it's cost many lives. Get real, and have more respect for the victims of this almighty cock-up.
    Nothing wrong with stating an opinion, albeit with hindsight and on incredibly scant information - the truth is that no-one knows whether the UK government's approach has been optimal or not - but if you don't see that "I don't think we'll be deprived of the prospect of him trying to wriggle out of his responsiility for the death toll in a few months' time" is offensive, then I'm afraid the problem is entirely yours.
    Don't talk to me about hindsight. Any fool could see at the time that the herd immunity policy would have been disastrous.

    And frankly, if you find "offensive" the prospect of the prime minister being called to account for the decisions he has taken, just because he is currently ill, your way of thinking is alien to me. It's very unlikely Johnson will die. But perhaps tens of thousands will die because of his decisions.
This discussion has been closed.