Johnson’s hospital admission suggests virus may have progressed Most people recover from Covid-19 within a week and cannot even be certain they had it, as they probably won’t be tested. The advice is to stay home, rest and take paracetamol. In 80% of cases, that is the end of it.
But NHS advice is that if the symptoms – mainly the dry cough, temperature and fatigue – have not gone by the end of a week, or they get worse, people should seek medical help.
Unlike Matt Hancock, the health secretary, who revealed he had Covid-19 on the same day as the prime minister, Boris Johnson has not recovered within the first week. He is said to have been admitted to hospital for tests, which may include scans of his lungs to check for pneumonia, as well as blood tests. He had a diagnostic test for Covid-19, so doctors will be looking for progression of the disease and to establish that he has not entered the second phase, where the immune system goes into overdrive.
Given the increasing pressure on hospitals at the moment, it is unlikely he will have been admitted unless doctors have real concerns. Minor tests could be carried out in Downing Street.
Yes. Days 8-14 are when it Maybe marches into the lungs. If it does that, and you have to go to hospital, the outlook is complicated, and sometimes bad. That seems to be where Boris is.
What doesn’t come across very clear from the article, it’s a reaction of your own immune system that puts you into peril, or have I got that wrong
I think that's wrong. People who are immunosuppressed are on the "danger" list and have been advised that they are more at risk if they get it. Same is true of regular flu.
Perhaps it's not wet market related, but proximity to bats who tend to carry these kind of viruses that led to the lab being there?
Also aside from bats specifically, IIUC the area has had a history of epidemics, so it seems like a reasonable place to put a lab that's studying them.
Michael Osterholm (American infectious disease epidemiologist, and ex-US gov Bioterrorism advisor) was recently on the Joe Rogan podcast, and discussed the Wuhan lab conspiracy theory. His take that Corvid-19 was way too elegant, too sophisticated to be a man-made bio-weapon.
So I tend to go with Occam' razor here. Brilliant conspiracy theory/thriller novel ground though, I admit.
"Escaped from a lab" doesn't have to imply anything other than that the lab was doing research into coronaviruses. It could still be a virus that originated in bats.
Yes, quite. That’s been my belief from early in feb.
The fact there was a lab investigating bat coronaviruses just a few hundred meters from the fateful ‘wet market’ of Wuhan is too much coincidence to believe.
So. It came from honest scientists doing honest research, but it leaked. Maybe a worker sold a Lab bat in the black wet market.
I can't find the link at the moment but I was reading some of the stories from early January and some doctors in Hong Kong had been querying whether the Chinese authorities were only categorising cases linked to the market as being this new syndrome. It's possible that the link to the 'wet market' was a deliberately chosen narrative.
I must admit I'm slightly sceptical of that publication, but the proximity of two research labs doing research on bat related coronaviruses does strike me as a remarkable coincidence. Fear you may well be onto something here.
Zerohedge was slated for this line of argument weeks ago. If it is ever prove true then they will be owed one heck of an apology
Zerohedge might end up being correct. Anything's possible.
But I would point out that (a) it's creator, editor and main writer is a convicted insisder trader, who is banned from working in the securities industry, and (b) it has taken money from hedge funds to spread stories that drive stock prices down. Something, market manipulation, that I was always lead to believe was illegal.
And c) the same story has been going round for weeks without any real corroborative evidence. The geneticists can’t see any evidence of it being an engineered virus. It’s theoretically possible that it could have escaped from a lab studying zoonotic viruses, but massively more likely that it originated in the wild bat population.
Also to point out that it's hardly a coincidence that there was a virology lab investigating bat-borne coronaviruses right nearby to a possible source of bat-borne coronaviruses.
All that proves is that the people who chose the site for the lab, did a good job. This is exactly the sort of reason why they would want to be studying bat-borne coronaviruses.
Meh. There's wet markets everywhere in China.
Perhaps it's not wet market related, but proximity to bats who tend to carry these kind of viruses that led to the lab being there?
I highly doubt it. It's much easier to bring the bats to the laboratory rather than the laboratory to the bats, and site the laboratory on the grounds you'd site any research institution - transport links, etc. And it's a virology centre, not a bat virology centre, and started out as a microbiology institute. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology
Johnson’s hospital admission suggests virus may have progressed Most people recover from Covid-19 within a week and cannot even be certain they had it, as they probably won’t be tested. The advice is to stay home, rest and take paracetamol. In 80% of cases, that is the end of it.
But NHS advice is that if the symptoms – mainly the dry cough, temperature and fatigue – have not gone by the end of a week, or they get worse, people should seek medical help.
Unlike Matt Hancock, the health secretary, who revealed he had Covid-19 on the same day as the prime minister, Boris Johnson has not recovered within the first week. He is said to have been admitted to hospital for tests, which may include scans of his lungs to check for pneumonia, as well as blood tests. He had a diagnostic test for Covid-19, so doctors will be looking for progression of the disease and to establish that he has not entered the second phase, where the immune system goes into overdrive.
Given the increasing pressure on hospitals at the moment, it is unlikely he will have been admitted unless doctors have real concerns. Minor tests could be carried out in Downing Street.
Yes. Days 8-14 are when it Maybe marches into the lungs. If it does that, and you have to go to hospital, the outlook is complicated, and sometimes bad. That seems to be where Boris is.
What doesn’t come across very clear from the article, it’s a reaction of your own immune system that puts you into peril, or have I got that wrong
I think that's wrong. People who are immunosuppressed are on the "danger" list and have been advised that they are more at risk if they get it. Same is true of regular flu.
Yes, that makes sense in catching it and quickly getting ill if you are immunsupressed, so avoid and shiver at every mention of herd immunity, but for everybody else, when it gets to the lungs it’s hyper reaction of the immune system that ramps up the problem. As I understand it.
I would challenge the government advice on no need for a body bag, if the bowels drop I understand you can catch it from there.
Nothing on here about the shadow cabinet? I am pleased to see the Blairites back in charge and Labour returned to sanity. The first one of Labour or the Lib Dems to commit to Rejoin will get my vote.
If you think Starker is a Blairitd you will be disabused. The world has moved on from those days.
Rachel Reeves as Shadow Chancellor. This is pure third way Blairism and I am very happy about it.
Nothing on here about the shadow cabinet? I am pleased to see the Blairites back in charge and Labour returned to sanity. The first one of Labour or the Lib Dems to commit to Rejoin will get my vote.
If you think Starker is a Blairitd you will be disabused. The world has moved on from those days.
Rachel Reeves as Shadow Chancellor. This is pure third way Blairism and I am very happy about it.
Perhaps it's not wet market related, but proximity to bats who tend to carry these kind of viruses that led to the lab being there?
Also aside from bats specifically, IIUC the area has had a history of epidemics, so it seems like a reasonable place to put a lab that's studying them.
Of course, but the lab has been there in some form since 1950.
As research they carried out with the aid of US funding (which Trump stopped last year) showed, human exposure to bat coronaviruses is common. https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-02/coronavirus-trump-pandemic-program-viruses-detection ... The pandemic “didn’t surprise us, unfortunately,” said Jonna Mazet, executive director of the One Health Institute in the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine, who served as the global director of PREDICT for a decade. “The work had been ongoing for some time. And when the crisis hits, everybody stands up and takes notice and says, ‘OK, we believe you.’”
The PREDICT project, launched in response to the 2005 H5N1 “bird flu” scare, gathered specimens from more than 10,000 bats and 2,000 other mammals in search of dangerous viruses. They detected about 1,200 viruses that could spread from wild animals to humans, signaling pandemic potential. More than 160 of them were novel coronaviruses, much like SARS-CoV-2.
They also took blood samples from people in rural China, and learned that, in living among wildlife, they had been exposed to coronaviruses — a clear sign that, if those viruses spread easily among humans, they could take off. That “raised the red flag,” said Mazet.
“Coronaviruses were jumping easily across species lines and were ones to watch for epidemics and pandemics,” she said.
The program also trained nearly 7,000 people across medical and agricultural sectors in 30 countries in Asia, Africa and the Middle East to help them detect deadly new viruses on their own. One of those labs was the Wuhan Institute of Virology — the Chinese lab that quickly identified SARS-CoV-2, Mazet said....
Comments
Also, bats are bloody everywhere; there's about 1300 species which is 20% odd of all mammal species. Horseshoe bats, the suspects in this case, are particularly widely distributed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_bat#Range_and_habitat
I would challenge the government advice on no need for a body bag, if the bowels drop I understand you can catch it from there.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-for-care-of-the-deceased/guidance-for-care-of-the-deceased-with-suspected-or-confirmed-coronavirus-covid-19
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8190231/Dominic-Cummings-uncle-retired-judge-Sir-John-Laws-dies-coronavirus-diagnosis.html
As research they carried out with the aid of US funding (which Trump stopped last year) showed, human exposure to bat coronaviruses is common.
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-02/coronavirus-trump-pandemic-program-viruses-detection
... The pandemic “didn’t surprise us, unfortunately,” said Jonna Mazet, executive director of the One Health Institute in the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine, who served as the global director of PREDICT for a decade. “The work had been ongoing for some time. And when the crisis hits, everybody stands up and takes notice and says, ‘OK, we believe you.’”
The PREDICT project, launched in response to the 2005 H5N1 “bird flu” scare, gathered specimens from more than 10,000 bats and 2,000 other mammals in search of dangerous viruses. They detected about 1,200 viruses that could spread from wild animals to humans, signaling pandemic potential. More than 160 of them were novel coronaviruses, much like SARS-CoV-2.
They also took blood samples from people in rural China, and learned that, in living among wildlife, they had been exposed to coronaviruses — a clear sign that, if those viruses spread easily among humans, they could take off. That “raised the red flag,” said Mazet.
“Coronaviruses were jumping easily across species lines and were ones to watch for epidemics and pandemics,” she said.
The program also trained nearly 7,000 people across medical and agricultural sectors in 30 countries in Asia, Africa and the Middle East to help them detect deadly new viruses on their own. One of those labs was the Wuhan Institute of Virology — the Chinese lab that quickly identified SARS-CoV-2, Mazet said....