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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Buttigieg quitting the WH2020 race triggers Biden bounce in th

SystemSystem Posts: 11,764
edited March 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Buttigieg quitting the WH2020 race triggers Biden bounce in the Dem nomination betting

The big development in the race for the White House overnight has been the decision by Pete Buttigieg to quit the race following his poor performance in South Carolina.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,419
    first
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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,419
    edited March 2020
    deleted
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,439
    Neither tempted to lay or back Biden at current prices to be honest.

    It’s a hold for me.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,385
    Looking at the individual latest polls suggests a Biden bounce, though we've not yet had a poll that is entirely post-SC. I think we'll see Sanders getting more delegates tomorrow than Biden, but like Mike I reckon it'll be well short of a knockout.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687
    HYUFD said:
    This is, of course, the other thing about dropping out at the right moment - everyone says nice things about you.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,439
    edited March 2020
    HYUFD said:
    Well, it sounds like a deal’s been struck behind the scenes with Biden to me.

    By contrast there’s been none with Sanders so he’s appealing directly over his head to his voters.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687
    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    R4 saying markets are rallying today on the back of co-ordinated "will take all actions necessary" statements from central banks around the world.

    Haha. If only pandemics were so easy to control.

    Dead cat springs to mind.
    Perhaps - but there is an argument that the economic implications are overstated by the doom mongers.

    If coronavirus proves controllable, then we could be back to normal within a matter of months; if not, we could also be back to some kind of normality within a matter of moths, as there will no longer be any point in massive lockdowns/quarantines.

    And to put it brutally, most of the active workforce will be far less affected than the retired.

    Central banks acting to prevent liquidity crises in a co-ordinated manner is simply common sense.
    There is an argument but not one I would agree with.

    But I am increasingly of the view the government is going to try a strategy of no lock down. But it might however get dragged into one because the consequences of its decision would be so severe. By then it would be too late to reap many of the benefits whilst it will still accrue all the costs. Probably the most important decision any government has made in a generation.

    It's going to be a brutal few months. Let's hope it passes quickly. God bless all those working in health care.
    I don't disagree.

    How we get through this depends to some extent on how pragmatic and foresighted the government turn out to be.
    They do have the advantage of more preparation time than many countries, the chance to learn from others' mistakes, and a decent nationwide public health administration.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,140
    HYUFD said:
    Further evidence that FPTP is fantastic.
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    As we head to Super Tuesday I’m quite chuffed to say I have as many pledged delegates as Michael Bloomberg.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,380

    HYUFD said:
    Well, it sounds like a deal’s been struck behind the scenes to me.
    When was the last Primary Winner of either party to pick a defeated rival from the primaries for running mate? Certainly it seems a rare event from my memory. Was Obama the last one or did Biden not run in 2008?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687
    edited March 2020

    HYUFD said:
    Well, it sounds like a deal’s been struck behind the scenes with Biden to me.

    By contrast there’s been none with Sanders so he’s appealing directly over his head to his voters.
    Or it could simply reflect the different ways in which Sanders and Biden see the world.

    (Note both use "historic".)
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687

    As we head to Super Tuesday I’m quite chuffed to say I have as many pledged delegates as Michael Bloomberg.

    I'd rather have half his campaign resources.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,635
    HYUFD said:
    Interesting, although of course people would probably vote differently under other electoral systems.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Everything begins with a B.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Off topic, here's a good article on what a UK-EU deal might look like at the end of the year:

    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1234382237463912449
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,278
    From the graph above, 46% +31% + 13% equals 90%.

    Who else stands a chance, ‘cos there’s 10% missing?
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    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 25,039
    edited March 2020
    HYUFD said:
    I think the good professor means what would happen if we'd used a different election system but kept it secret from the voters so their behaviour did not change. Still, the report has some interesting information and a photograph of Boris apparently leading a funeral cortege on page 48.

    https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/2019-General-Election-Report.pdf
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    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Further evidence that FPTP is fantastic.
    And a complete failure to account for behavioural change...
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,439
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:
    Well, it sounds like a deal’s been struck behind the scenes to me.
    When was the last Primary Winner of either party to pick a defeated rival from the primaries for running mate? Certainly it seems a rare event from my memory. Was Obama the last one or did Biden not run in 2008?
    The deal might not necessarily be for VP..
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Further evidence that FPTP is fantastic.
    And a complete failure to account for behavioural change...
    You mean he's underestimating the LibDem and Green votes ?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687

    Everything begins with a B.

    Bollocks !
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,038

    Off topic, here's a good article on what a UK-EU deal might look like at the end of the year:

    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1234382237463912449

    That's a really good practical detailed article on a possible UK-EU deal. I'll save that.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,022

    Looking at the individual latest polls suggests a Biden bounce, though we've not yet had a poll that is entirely post-SC. I think we'll see Sanders getting more delegates tomorrow than Biden, but like Mike I reckon it'll be well short of a knockout.

    Good.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687

    Off topic, here's a good article on what a UK-EU deal might look like at the end of the year:

    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1234382237463912449

    Did you see the French fisherman are threatening a blockade of the channel ports if no deal is done on access to UK waters ?

    A significant and credible (and disgraceful) threat.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    HYUFD said:
    I think the good professor means what would happen if we'd used a different election system but kept it secret from the voters so their behaviour did not change. Still, the report has some interesting information and a photograph of Boris apparently leading a funeral cortege on page 48.

    https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/2019-General-Election-Report.pdf
    New way to run elections. 4 different systems are available and voters have to fill out ballots for each one. Then after the polls close one of the electoral systems is picked at random to be used to decide the election.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,166
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:
    Well, it sounds like a deal’s been struck behind the scenes to me.
    When was the last Primary Winner of either party to pick a defeated rival from the primaries for running mate? Certainly it seems a rare event from my memory. Was Obama the last one or did Biden not run in 2008?
    They haven't in the last couple of cycles but previously there was Obama -> Biden and Kerry -> Edwards.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    HYUFD said:
    Interesting the differences in results. While STV is the theoretically best system, Ams is the most likely one to be adopted if the UK ever does switch to PR. It could potentially happen if 2024 results in a hung parliament. Unlike in 2010 when Labour were basically done with government, a Labour Party in 2024 would be much more willing to implement PR with Lib Dems to get into government.

    If the Tories win 2024, its more likely that Labour would win in 2029 with a majority and so PR once again off the table.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:
    I think the good professor means what would happen if we'd used a different election system but kept it secret from the voters so their behaviour did not change. Still, the report has some interesting information and a photograph of Boris apparently leading a funeral cortege on page 48.

    https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/2019-General-Election-Report.pdf
    New way to run elections. 4 different systems are available and voters have to fill out ballots for each one. Then after the polls close one of the electoral systems is picked at random to be used to decide the election.
    Or we declare what all four sets of results would be, and then have a referendum... ?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,070
    F1: some more season markets up on Ladbrokes, but still only the win for Australia.

    Mildly surprised that Perez is shorter than Sainz (Norris same as Sainz, Stroll longer).
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    eekeek Posts: 25,457
    Nigelb said:

    Off topic, here's a good article on what a UK-EU deal might look like at the end of the year:

    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1234382237463912449

    Did you see the French fisherman are threatening a blockade of the channel ports if no deal is done on access to UK waters ?

    A significant and credible (and disgraceful) threat.
    Doesn't that happen once or twice every summer anyway?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,278

    Off topic, here's a good article on what a UK-EU deal might look like at the end of the year:

    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1234382237463912449

    That’s a good piece on the nature of the agreements and differences at this stage. There’s still a place somewhere in the middle where an agreement is possible, but a lot of moving parts in the next few months - and these things only tend to come together when there’s a high degree of urgency.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,726
    Nigelb said:

    Off topic, here's a good article on what a UK-EU deal might look like at the end of the year:

    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1234382237463912449

    Did you see the French fisherman are threatening a blockade of the channel ports if no deal is done on access to UK waters ?

    A significant and credible (and disgraceful) threat.
    Nevertheless as the article says - and has been obvious from the start to those that care to look - our leverage is very limited, as without EU markets to sell our fish to (that Brits don't fancy to eat), our industry is done for anyway.
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    kamskikamski Posts: 4,352
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:
    Interesting, although of course people would probably vote differently under other electoral systems.
    It's also interesting in their choice of alternatives. The chapter headed "Alternatives" starts

    "The UK remains the only democracy in Europe to
    use First Past the Post (FPTP) to elect its MPs",

    but they then go on to completely ignore the form of PR used in Europe's largest democracy (ignoring Russia)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,081
    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-endorsements/democratic-primary/?ex_cid=rrpromo

    Potentially important for contested convention - Biden way out in front amongst the great and the good.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,457
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:
    Well, it sounds like a deal’s been struck behind the scenes to me.
    When was the last Primary Winner of either party to pick a defeated rival from the primaries for running mate? Certainly it seems a rare event from my memory. Was Obama the last one or did Biden not run in 2008?
    I don't think Buttigieg would have been offered running mate - chief of staff ready for a subsequent campaign is a more likely option.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited March 2020
    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,278
    Nigelb said:

    Off topic, here's a good article on what a UK-EU deal might look like at the end of the year:

    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1234382237463912449

    Did you see the French fisherman are threatening a blockade of the channel ports if no deal is done on access to UK waters ?

    A significant and credible (and disgraceful) threat.
    That sort of rogue behaviour represents a serious risk to the negotiations. It’s not going to create an environment conducive to compromise.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2020
    I love the way Peter Hitchens calls this passive aggressive trolling out

    https://twitter.com/clarkemicah/status/1234409037556568064?s=21
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,278
    edited March 2020

    HYUFD said:
    Interesting the differences in results. While STV is the theoretically best system, Ams is the most likely one to be adopted if the UK ever does switch to PR. It could potentially happen if 2024 results in a hung parliament. Unlike in 2010 when Labour were basically done with government, a Labour Party in 2024 would be much more willing to implement PR with Lib Dems to get into government.

    If the Tories win 2024, its more likely that Labour would win in 2029 with a majority and so PR once again off the table.
    Would the SNP be in favour of PR though? I’d say not, on the numbers.
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    94 in Spain rising rapidly this morning less than 10% community spread cases . Concentrated effort in four areas to track source.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,585
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Interesting the differences in results. While STV is the theoretically best system, Ams is the most likely one to be adopted if the UK ever does switch to PR. It could potentially happen if 2024 results in a hung parliament. Unlike in 2010 when Labour were basically done with government, a Labour Party in 2024 would be much more willing to implement PR with Lib Dems to get into government.

    If the Tories win 2024, its more likely that Labour would win in 2029 with a majority and so PR once again off the table.
    Would the SNP be in favour of PR though? I’d say not, on the numbers.
    It would also likely have to have a referendum to confirm.

    As the figures suggest the biggest winners from PR would be the LDs, followed by the Greens and Brexit Party, the biggest losers the Tories and SNP.

    Labour would benefit under STV but lose out under AMS
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687
    Pulpstar said:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-endorsements/democratic-primary/?ex_cid=rrpromo

    Potentially important for contested convention - Biden way out in front amongst the great and the good.

    And, somewhat perversely, Buttigieg dropping out provides some encouragement to Bloomberg and Warren staying in, as both are slightly more likely to have more delegates to exercise influence at a contested convention:
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/election-update-buttigieg-dropping-out-isnt-good-for-sanders/
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    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    But why?
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    But why?
    For reasons that are really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post on here.
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    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,489
    edited March 2020

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    But why?
    For reasons that are really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post on here.
    Boris's fidelity???

    There was that Pádraig Belton tweet that no one believed because C. Symonds wasn't thought to be pregnant but now.....
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,380
    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:
    I think the good professor means what would happen if we'd used a different election system but kept it secret from the voters so their behaviour did not change. Still, the report has some interesting information and a photograph of Boris apparently leading a funeral cortege on page 48.

    https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/2019-General-Election-Report.pdf
    New way to run elections. 4 different systems are available and voters have to fill out ballots for each one. Then after the polls close one of the electoral systems is picked at random to be used to decide the election.
    Or we declare what all four sets of results would be, and then have a referendum... ?
    By AV, of course...
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    eekeek Posts: 25,457
    edited March 2020

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    Edit scrub that a 2021 general election is possible if Boris completely screws up. I can't see even him screwing things up that badly though as Gove is watching over the important areas.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,278
    edited March 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Off topic, here's a good article on what a UK-EU deal might look like at the end of the year:

    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1234382237463912449

    Did you see the French fisherman are threatening a blockade of the channel ports if no deal is done on access to UK waters ?

    A significant and credible (and disgraceful) threat.
    Nevertheless as the article says - and has been obvious from the start to those that care to look - our leverage is very limited, as without EU markets to sell our fish to (that Brits don't fancy to eat), our industry is done for anyway.
    The UK’s leverage is that it one of the few areas that the EU really, really cares about.

    I suspect that a compromise looks something like a percentage of fish caught in UK waters, roughly equal to that currently landed in the EU but destined for non-EU markets, needs to be landed in the UK. Probably also includes a review every three or five years, as opposed to annually with the EU- Norway deal.
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    As David Henig points out, standards between the USA and the EU are contradictory, so if we choose one over the other we make the other trade deal inevitably worse.

    I think we'll end up going with the EU.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    eek said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    Edit scrub that a 2021 general election is possible if Boris completely screws up. I can't see even him screwing things up that badly though as Gove is watching over the important areas.
    No that's not my reasoning. As I said, it's really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    R4 saying markets are rallying today on the back of co-ordinated "will take all actions necessary" statements from central banks around the world.

    Haha. If only pandemics were so easy to control.

    Dead cat springs to mind.
    Perhaps - but there is an argument that the economic implications are overstated by the doom mongers.

    If coronavirus proves controllable, then we could be back to normal within a matter of months; if not, we could also be back to some kind of normality within a matter of moths, as there will no longer be any point in massive lockdowns/quarantines.

    And to put it brutally, most of the active workforce will be far less affected than the retired.

    Central banks acting to prevent liquidity crises in a co-ordinated manner is simply common sense.
    There is an argument but not one I would agree with.

    But I am increasingly of the view the government is going to try a strategy of no lock down. But it might however get dragged into one because the consequences of its decision would be so severe. By then it would be too late to reap many of the benefits whilst it will still accrue all the costs. Probably the most important decision any government has made in a generation.

    It's going to be a brutal few months. Let's hope it passes quickly. God bless all those working in health care.
    I don't disagree.

    How we get through this depends to some extent on how pragmatic and foresighted the government turn out to be.
    They do have the advantage of more preparation time than many countries, the chance to learn from others' mistakes, and a decent nationwide public health administration.
    A “pragmatic and foresighted” government would not be refusing to co-operate with its nearest neighbours or overruling the views of health experts on the need for such co-operation simply for ideological reasons.

    A “pragmatic and foresighted” government would not risk the health of its citizens because it cares more about making a point about “red lines”.

    This is malevolence by the government. It is despicable.
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    I can see this Government turning into John Major/Gordon Brown Government 2.0 by the end and being deeply unpopular but there won't be an early GE.

    I suppose in theory we might go back to having GEs every four years instead of every five.

    I definitely foresee Labour leading in the polls at certain points, the Tory honeymoon won't last forever and they're surely nearly at their watermark in support now.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,278

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    But why?
    For reasons that are really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post on here.
    Boris's fidelity???
    The Tories will dump Boris on his ear if he screws up (or screws around). Ask one Mrs May of Maidenhead what happens if you upset the 1922.

    I don’t see how it ends with an immediate election though, short of signing up to rejoin the EU there’s nothing that’s going to cause 40 Tory MPs to cross the floor - remembering that every single floor-crosser in the last Parliament lost their seat in the subsequent election!
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    but there won't be an early GE.

    Unless ...

    Anyway you can 33/1 on it with Ladbrokes.

    Let's get back to some sensible betting :smiley:

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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,726
    Sandpit said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    But why?
    For reasons that are really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post on here.
    Boris's fidelity???
    The Tories will dump Boris on his ear if he screws up (or screws around). Ask one Mrs May of Maidenhead what happens if you upset the 1922.

    I don’t see how it ends with an immediate election though, short of signing up to rejoin the EU there’s nothing that’s going to cause 40 Tory MPs to cross the floor - remembering that every single floor-crosser in the last Parliament lost their seat in the subsequent election!
    They were hardly quick about it, though.
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    Labour minority Government is surely good value for the next election.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,278
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    But why?
    For reasons that are really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post on here.
    Boris's fidelity???
    The Tories will dump Boris on his ear if he screws up (or screws around). Ask one Mrs May of Maidenhead what happens if you upset the 1922.

    I don’t see how it ends with an immediate election though, short of signing up to rejoin the EU there’s nothing that’s going to cause 40 Tory MPs to cross the floor - remembering that every single floor-crosser in the last Parliament lost their seat in the subsequent election!
    They were hardly quick about it, though.
    They gave her just enough rope.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,726

    eek said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    Edit scrub that a 2021 general election is possible if Boris completely screws up. I can't see even him screwing things up that badly though as Gove is watching over the important areas.
    No that's not my reasoning. As I said, it's really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post.
    Get Eadric to post it?
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    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,489
    Sandpit said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    But why?
    For reasons that are really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post on here.
    Boris's fidelity???
    The Tories will dump Boris on his ear if he screws up (or screws around). Ask one Mrs May of Maidenhead what happens if you upset the 1922.

    I don’t see how it ends with an immediate election though, short of signing up to rejoin the EU there’s nothing that’s going to cause 40 Tory MPs to cross the floor - remembering that every single floor-crosser in the last Parliament lost their seat in the subsequent election!
    But cheating on an expectant mother may be too much, even for ardent johnsophiles. Imagine defending that over the media storm you'll be taken down with the ship.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    Edit scrub that a 2021 general election is possible if Boris completely screws up. I can't see even him screwing things up that badly though as Gove is watching over the important areas.
    No that's not my reasoning. As I said, it's really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post.
    Get Eadric to post it?
    Yeah, well I think he would get where I'm coming from.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,726
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Off topic, here's a good article on what a UK-EU deal might look like at the end of the year:

    https://twitter.com/SamuelMarcLowe/status/1234382237463912449

    Did you see the French fisherman are threatening a blockade of the channel ports if no deal is done on access to UK waters ?

    A significant and credible (and disgraceful) threat.
    Nevertheless as the article says - and has been obvious from the start to those that care to look - our leverage is very limited, as without EU markets to sell our fish to (that Brits don't fancy to eat), our industry is done for anyway.
    The UK’s leverage is that it one of the few areas that the EU really, really cares about.

    I suspect that a compromise looks something like a percentage of fish caught in UK waters, roughly equal to that currently landed in the EU but destined for non-EU markets, needs to be landed in the UK. Probably also includes a review every three or five years, as opposed to annually with the EU- Norway deal.
    I suspect it'll be a deal that leaves the 'control' apparently with us but with a starting point that reflects very much the current situation.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,703
    edited March 2020
    Good piece linked to above by the CER. Saying, in essence, that having caved once before, Boris will cave again to the EU and be able to sell it to his party and the British public who are either ignorant or don't care about the issues.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Interesting the differences in results. While STV is the theoretically best system, Ams is the most likely one to be adopted if the UK ever does switch to PR. It could potentially happen if 2024 results in a hung parliament. Unlike in 2010 when Labour were basically done with government, a Labour Party in 2024 would be much more willing to implement PR with Lib Dems to get into government.

    If the Tories win 2024, its more likely that Labour would win in 2029 with a majority and so PR once again off the table.
    Would the SNP be in favour of PR though? I’d say not, on the numbers.
    They've always said they back it on principle despite it being a negative for them in seat terms. I think they would struggle to justify vetoing any incoming non tory government over something like PR, especially as AMS is already used in the Scottish Parliament.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,327

    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    Edit scrub that a 2021 general election is possible if Boris completely screws up. I can't see even him screwing things up that badly though as Gove is watching over the important areas.
    No that's not my reasoning. As I said, it's really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post.
    Get Eadric to post it?
    Yeah, well I think he would get where I'm coming from.
    Presumably your scenario involves the virus wiping out the Tory majority. I can't see it, personally. Tory MPs don't tend to be old like they were in the 1990s.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,726
    Markets have lost all their early gains.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Interesting the differences in results. While STV is the theoretically best system, Ams is the most likely one to be adopted if the UK ever does switch to PR. It could potentially happen if 2024 results in a hung parliament. Unlike in 2010 when Labour were basically done with government, a Labour Party in 2024 would be much more willing to implement PR with Lib Dems to get into government.

    If the Tories win 2024, its more likely that Labour would win in 2029 with a majority and so PR once again off the table.
    Would the SNP be in favour of PR though? I’d say not, on the numbers.
    It would also likely have to have a referendum to confirm.

    As the figures suggest the biggest winners from PR would be the LDs, followed by the Greens and Brexit Party, the biggest losers the Tories and SNP.

    Labour would benefit under STV but lose out under AMS
    It probably should have a referendum but I'm not sure it would. It would be very easy to say something along the lines of "the country has had enough of divisive referendums, let's just implement the policy and get on with it".
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,217

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    But why?
    For reasons that are really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post on here.
    Boris's fidelity???

    There was that Pádraig Belton tweet that no one believed because C. Symonds wasn't thought to be pregnant but now.....
    If there is anything that is a racing certainty it's that Johnson is going to fuck around on FLOTUK. The only question is whether she is so besmitten with the trappings of office that she'll cave it all in or put up with it.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,457

    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    Edit scrub that a 2021 general election is possible if Boris completely screws up. I can't see even him screwing things up that badly though as Gove is watching over the important areas.
    No that's not my reasoning. As I said, it's really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post.
    Get Eadric to post it?
    Yeah, well I think he would get where I'm coming from.
    Talking about Eadric - how will his sockie master cope without his monthly exotic travel fix?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687
    tlg86 said:

    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    Edit scrub that a 2021 general election is possible if Boris completely screws up. I can't see even him screwing things up that badly though as Gove is watching over the important areas.
    No that's not my reasoning. As I said, it's really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post.
    Get Eadric to post it?
    Yeah, well I think he would get where I'm coming from.
    Presumably your scenario involves the virus wiping out the Tory majority. I can't see it, personally. Tory MPs don't tend to be old like they were in the 1990s.
    Doing some rough number crunching, on the published age band mortality rates (which are also estimates for now), you would expect only a one in four chance of even a single MP under the age of 40 (out of the 116 in the Commons) succumbing to the virus.

    Perhaps one death out of the 190 MPs aged between 40 and 49;
    two to three of the 197 MPs between 50 and 59...
    and maybe six out of the remaining 142 aged over 60.

    Democracy is unlikely to be overturned - and that is assuming a 100% infection rate.

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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,166
    IanB2 said:

    Markets have lost all their early gains.

    When are we getting an @rcs1000 thread on the economic consequences of the dreaded lurgy?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    (FPT)

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    R4 saying markets are rallying today on the back of co-ordinated "will take all actions necessary" statements from central banks around the world.

    Haha. If only pandemics were so easy to control.

    Dead cat springs to mind.
    Perhaps - but there is an argument that the economic implications are overstated by the doom mongers.

    If coronavirus proves controllable, then we could be back to normal within a matter of months; if not, we could also be back to some kind of normality within a matter of moths, as there will no longer be any point in massive lockdowns/quarantines.

    And to put it brutally, most of the active workforce will be far less affected than the retired.

    Central banks acting to prevent liquidity crises in a co-ordinated manner is simply common sense.
    There is an argument but not one I would agree with.

    But I am increasingly of the view the government is going to try a strategy of no lock down. But it might however get dragged into one because the consequences of its decision would be so severe. By then it would be too late to reap many of the benefits whilst it will still accrue all the costs. Probably the most important decision any government has made in a generation.

    It's going to be a brutal few months. Let's hope it passes quickly. God bless all those working in health care.
    I don't disagree.

    How we get through this depends to some extent on how pragmatic and foresighted the government turn out to be.
    They do have the advantage of more preparation time than many countries, the chance to learn from others' mistakes, and a decent nationwide public health administration.
    A “pragmatic and foresighted” government would not be refusing to co-operate with its nearest neighbours or overruling the views of health experts on the need for such co-operation simply for ideological reasons.

    A “pragmatic and foresighted” government would not risk the health of its citizens because it cares more about making a point about “red lines”.

    This is malevolence by the government. It is despicable.
    I don't for a moment disagree. But unlike (for example) the US, we do have public health systems and institutions in place capable of providing sensible and timely advice to government.

    Even the current bunch in power have some chance of making a decent fist of it.
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    JSpringJSpring Posts: 98
    edited March 2020
    "One of the reasons why Bernie Sanders was doing so well was that he was completely dominating the primaries as the candidate for the progressive wing of the party while the centrist vote was split between Biden, Buttigieg , and Klobuchar."

    For what it's worth, a Morning Consult poll has/had the Buttigieg vote split quite evenly between Sanders, Biden, Warren and Bloomberg. Many preferences come down to name recognition rather than to 'ideology' and so on. If Biden outperforms expectations tomorrow then it would probably be more down to post-South Carolina momentum rather than to Buttgieg's withdrawal.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Dura_Ace said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    But why?
    For reasons that are really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post on here.
    Boris's fidelity???

    There was that Pádraig Belton tweet that no one believed because C. Symonds wasn't thought to be pregnant but now.....
    If there is anything that is a racing certainty it's that Johnson is going to fuck around on FLOTUK. The only question is whether she is so besmitten with the trappings of office that she'll cave it all in or put up with it.
    She knows what his track record is. She had no scruples about having an affair with a married man. So she is hardly in a position to complain if he does to her what he has done to his other lovers.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,635

    Labour minority Government is surely good value for the next election.

    Why do you think so?
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    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,249
    Is there any reason I'm missing why 2yr US bonds isn't quite a safe place to be parking money right now? Fed is gonna have to buy the front of the curve to get things moving and drive it right down to zero yield aren't they?
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    MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,489
    moonshine said:

    Is there any reason I'm missing why 2yr US bonds isn't quite a safe place to be parking money right now? Fed is gonna have to buy the front of the curve to get things moving and drive it right down to zero yield aren't they?

    Can you really try to out stimulate a supply side crisis?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,687
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    Edit scrub that a 2021 general election is possible if Boris completely screws up. I can't see even him screwing things up that badly though as Gove is watching over the important areas.
    No that's not my reasoning. As I said, it's really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post.
    Get Eadric to post it?
    Yeah, well I think he would get where I'm coming from.
    Presumably your scenario involves the virus wiping out the Tory majority. I can't see it, personally. Tory MPs don't tend to be old like they were in the 1990s.
    Doing some rough number crunching, on the published age band mortality rates (which are also estimates for now), you would expect only a one in four chance of even a single MP under the age of 40 (out of the 116 in the Commons) succumbing to the virus.

    Perhaps one death out of the 190 MPs aged between 40 and 49;
    two to three of the 197 MPs between 50 and 59...
    and maybe six out of the remaining 142 aged over 60.

    Democracy is unlikely to be overturned - and that is assuming a 100% infection rate.

    (note for pedants: there seem to be 5 MPs for whom the commons website does not give age statistics. That does not materially effect the numbers.)
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,639
    edited March 2020

    But cheating on an expectant mother may be too much, even for ardent johnsophiles. Imagine defending that over the media storm you'll be taken down with the ship.

    That could very well bring him down. I have no inside track on it, my sources have no access to those parts, but I do detect a whiff of sleaze in the pipeline. It's that sort of government. I would be astonished if there is not an absolute humdinger of a scandal before the summer.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 45,380
    Cyclefree said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    But why?
    For reasons that are really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post on here.
    Boris's fidelity???

    There was that Pádraig Belton tweet that no one believed because C. Symonds wasn't thought to be pregnant but now.....
    If there is anything that is a racing certainty it's that Johnson is going to fuck around on FLOTUK. The only question is whether she is so besmitten with the trappings of office that she'll cave it all in or put up with it.
    She knows what his track record is. She had no scruples about having an affair with a married man. So she is hardly in a position to complain if he does to her what he has done to his other lovers.
    Love is blind, and lovers cannot see,
    The pretty follies, that they themselves commit...

    She wouldn't be the first woman to believe that it is different this time.



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    GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    Edit scrub that a 2021 general election is possible if Boris completely screws up. I can't see even him screwing things up that badly though as Gove is watching over the important areas.
    No that's not my reasoning. As I said, it's really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post.
    Get Eadric to post it?
    Yeah, well I think he would get where I'm coming from.
    Presumably your scenario involves the virus wiping out the Tory majority. I can't see it, personally. Tory MPs don't tend to be old like they were in the 1990s.
    Doing some rough number crunching, on the published age band mortality rates (which are also estimates for now), you would expect only a one in four chance of even a single MP under the age of 40 (out of the 116 in the Commons) succumbing to the virus.

    Perhaps one death out of the 190 MPs aged between 40 and 49;
    two to three of the 197 MPs between 50 and 59...
    and maybe six out of the remaining 142 aged over 60.

    Democracy is unlikely to be overturned - and that is assuming a 100% infection rate.

    The first cough within the HoC would empty it faster than the end of PMQs.

    By the sounds of it, the government is going to demand school teachers to 'teach' classes of up to 60. Meanwhile I am sure they will be quick to prorogue parliament because of the risk of infection.

    Them and Us.

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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,140
    Andy_JS said:

    Labour minority Government is surely good value for the next election.

    Why do you think so?
    I mean he's been ramping Labour ever since he got here, so it's not surprising that is his prediction.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    Edit scrub that a 2021 general election is possible if Boris completely screws up. I can't see even him screwing things up that badly though as Gove is watching over the important areas.
    No that's not my reasoning. As I said, it's really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post.
    Get Eadric to post it?
    Yeah, well I think he would get where I'm coming from.
    Presumably your scenario involves the virus wiping out the Tory majority. I can't see it, personally. Tory MPs don't tend to be old like they were in the 1990s.
    Doing some rough number crunching, on the published age band mortality rates (which are also estimates for now), you would expect only a one in four chance of even a single MP under the age of 40 (out of the 116 in the Commons) succumbing to the virus.

    Perhaps one death out of the 190 MPs aged between 40 and 49;
    two to three of the 197 MPs between 50 and 59...
    and maybe six out of the remaining 142 aged over 60.

    Democracy is unlikely to be overturned - and that is assuming a 100% infection rate.

    In any case, assuming the virus did somehow cause such damage , that would imply a scenario so bad it would be more likely to lead to a National government than an early election.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,286
    Cyclefree said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    But why?
    For reasons that are really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post on here.
    Boris's fidelity???

    There was that Pádraig Belton tweet that no one believed because C. Symonds wasn't thought to be pregnant but now.....
    If there is anything that is a racing certainty it's that Johnson is going to fuck around on FLOTUK. The only question is whether she is so besmitten with the trappings of office that she'll cave it all in or put up with it.
    She knows what his track record is. She had no scruples about having an affair with a married man. So she is hardly in a position to complain if he does to her what he has done to his other lovers.
    Miaow!
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,639
    edited March 2020
    Betting Post -

    It is now strong odds on that there WILL be a recession in the US this year. That is a big market move over the weekend. If so, perhaps the Dow remains a strong sell. Its fall last week only took it back to where it was a few months ago. How about it tests 20,000 at some point in the near future?

    Rather than back Bernie for the Nom at 2.04, is it not better to back "no contested convention" at 2.4? Rationale: Bernie will not win a contested convention and thus will only get the Nom with an outright majority.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,278

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Interesting the differences in results. While STV is the theoretically best system, Ams is the most likely one to be adopted if the UK ever does switch to PR. It could potentially happen if 2024 results in a hung parliament. Unlike in 2010 when Labour were basically done with government, a Labour Party in 2024 would be much more willing to implement PR with Lib Dems to get into government.

    If the Tories win 2024, its more likely that Labour would win in 2029 with a majority and so PR once again off the table.
    Would the SNP be in favour of PR though? I’d say not, on the numbers.
    They've always said they back it on principle despite it being a negative for them in seat terms. I think they would struggle to justify vetoing any incoming non tory government over something like PR, especially as AMS is already used in the Scottish Parliament.
    It would be interesting to see the difference between theory and practice. Not many MPs are principled enough to vote themselves out of a job.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,941
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Further evidence that FPTP is fantastic.
    Further evidence that FPTP fails to give people the parliament that people voted for. It's not fit for purpose but the "winners" will always seek ways to justify it.

    It's quite a sobering thought that the Brexit we are going to get will come about courtesy of FPTP rather than courtesy of how people voted
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Any one explain the drop in the pound over the euro?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,635
    Some good news: over 200 cases in Germany and Spain and no fatalities.

    https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
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    GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Some positive news:

    Authorities in China have closed the first of 16 hospitals specially built in Wuhan to tackle the coronavirus epidemic, the Chinese state broadcaster CCTV has said. According to Reuters:

    News of the closure coincided with a sharp fall in new cases in Hubei province and its capital of Wuhan but China remained on alert for people returning home with the virus from other countries where it has spread.

    “The rapid rising trend of virus cases in Wuhan has been controlled,” Mi Feng, a spokesman for China’s National Health Commission told a briefing.

    “Outbreaks in Hubei outside of Wuhan are curbed and provinces outside of Hubei are showing a positive trend.”

    The virus emerged in Wuhan late last year and has since infected more than 86,500 people, the majority in China, with most in Hubei.

    *************************************************
    The lockdown seems to be working very well in China.

    At the very end we will be able to see which countries got their policies right for this and which were just too decadent.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,081
    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post -

    It is now strong odds on that there WILL be a recession in the US this year. That is a big market move over the weekend. If so, perhaps the Dow remains a strong sell. Its fall last week only took it back to where it was a few months ago. How about it tests 20,000 at some point in the near future?

    Rather than back Bernie for the Nom at 2.04, is it not better to back "no contested convention" at 2.4? Rationale: Bernie will not win a contested convention and thus will only get the Nom with an outright majority.

    Sanders will win a contested convention if he's able to get over the line with Warren.
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    FossFoss Posts: 703
    edited March 2020
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    IanB2 said:

    eek said:

    I'm quite tempted to throw a tenner away on a 2021 General Election.

    Edit scrub that a 2021 general election is possible if Boris completely screws up. I can't see even him screwing things up that badly though as Gove is watching over the important areas.
    No that's not my reasoning. As I said, it's really too distasteful, and hopefully too ridiculous, to post.
    Get Eadric to post it?
    Yeah, well I think he would get where I'm coming from.
    Presumably your scenario involves the virus wiping out the Tory majority. I can't see it, personally. Tory MPs don't tend to be old like they were in the 1990s.
    Doing some rough number crunching, on the published age band mortality rates (which are also estimates for now), you would expect only a one in four chance of even a single MP under the age of 40 (out of the 116 in the Commons) succumbing to the virus.

    Perhaps one death out of the 190 MPs aged between 40 and 49;
    two to three of the 197 MPs between 50 and 59...
    and maybe six out of the remaining 142 aged over 60.

    Democracy is unlikely to be overturned - and that is assuming a 100% infection rate.

    The mean age of the House of Lords is about 70. If Corona is to clear out a chamber then the upper house is more likely.
This discussion has been closed.