To me, maybe uniquely, we are now entering the interesting phase of Brexit, and the one I have been anticipating for the last three years. Having decided to go ahead we have no good choices, but very important choices have to be made. It's a shame the debate has all but dried up.
On whether Leave choice was the right one, I would have thought the fact Brexit won't deliver what Leavers said it would deliver suggests an answer to that question
I'm not sure - the LEAVE vote was largely a vote of dissatisfaction and discontent across a range of issues which became crystallised by the notion that within the EU the UK was increasingly powerless and the right to be what we chose to be had been removed from us and we would be whatever the EU directed or drifted into.
This notion of sovereignty or control or whatever you want to call it is all well and good but we now need to have the big debate which is to ask ourselves what kind of country and society we do want to be in the 2020s and beyond.
This is the difficult stuff - I've argued here before leaving the EU provides an opportunity for the UK to re-think the nation state from the ground up and re-define such an entity for the 21st Century which might mean less Government, more devolution and an erosion of what has been the cohesive identity and the creation of something new.
The other aspect is the opportunity it provides to define the UK's place in the wider world - we coasted on from 1945 believing we were a big player because we had won the war and later when we got the Bomb that got us a seat at the top table but 2020 isn't 1945 - the world has changed, power has changed.
I'd argue knowledge is power (it always been I suppose) and I wonder if the UK can now lead in education and technological innovation in areas such as tackling climate change or mitigating food and water poverty. We have done incredibly well in power generation change though we have work to do on improving our own air quality and perhaps we can share the benefits with others.
When I read the Claire Fox piece, which is very enjoyably written, my initial reaction was not "the EU hasn't learned" but "Claire Fox knows what her readers want to read".
We all want to know we made the right decision. And that means people (like me) who campaigned for us to leave the EU want to look for evidence that supports that view. Likewise, those who campaigned against are constant constantly looking for news items that suggest either the EU is doing better, or the UK is doing worse.
The reality is that we don't know.
And reading the Claire Fox piece, I thought "if the EU had had a tightly focused meeting on how to ensure that it changed so that other countries wouldn't want to Brexit, then her piece would have been EU leaders in panic as they fear further exodus." There was no set of events that would have resulted in her writing a piece that contradicted her existing narrative.
Which makes it a bit boring. And not very insightful.
And it makes me fear for humanity. We are all so desperate to me seen as right, we care more about the argument than the actuality.
To me, maybe uniquely, we are now entering the interesting phase of Brexit, and the one I have been anticipating for the last three years. Having decided to go ahead we have no good choices, but very important choices have to be made. It's a shame the debate has all but dried up.
On whether Leave choice was the right one, I would have thought the fact Brexit won't deliver what Leavers said it would deliver suggests an answer to that question
Nothing's been settled. The expressions of confidence from those supporting the Johnson government, or those sure it will fail, are thus very odd.
What we have currently is not a situation comparable to Thatcher in 1983-7, or Blair in 1997, but the illusion of stability, after a long period where the instability was out in the open. The current government could find a pragmatic way through and win again, or it could unravel in adverse circumstances at the end of this year, long before 2023-4.
I’m sorry but the great British public, like you, are being duped by a series of sound bites, catch phrases and smoke and mirrors. We can now get on and worry about important issues like Man City being booted out of the champions league, love island and the masked singer and not have to worry about what happens in Westminster. It’s so much easier isn’t it?
I’m sorry but the great British public, like you, are being duped by a series of sound bites, catch phrases and smoke and mirrors. We can now get on and worry about important issues like Man City being booted out of the champions league, love island and the masked singer and not have to worry about what happens in Westminster. It’s so much easier isn’t it?
You do need to have a little more respect.
For someone who has been on this planet for 76 years I am not being 'duped' by sound bites and I have no care about City, do not know anything about love island or a masked singer
Indeed the cult of celebrity passes way over my head
However, because you have lost the argument to remain in the EU, and I voted remain, maybe try making a positive case for either re-joining or BINO than rather these sad attempts at belittling a poster
I’m sorry but the great British public, like you, are being duped by a series of sound bites, catch phrases and smoke and mirrors. We can now get on and worry about important issues like Man City being booted out of the champions league, love island and the masked singer and not have to worry about what happens in Westminster. It’s so much easier isn’t it?
You do need to have a little more respect.
For someone who has been on this planet for 76 years I am not being 'duped' by sound bites and I have no care about City, do not know anything about love island or a masked singer
Indeed the cult of celebrity passes way over my head
However, because you have lost the argument to remain in the EU, and I voted remain, maybe try making a positive case for either re-joining or BINO than rather these sad attempts at belittling a poster
The only reason Johnson is getting improved brexit ratings is because the population no longer care what the outcome is as long as they don’t have to worry and listen to the issue. Just because you have been on the planet for x years gives you no greater insight on the world than a 21 year old, in fact the 21/year old knows more about the world he lives in than either you are I. There is no positive case for leaving the EU from my perspective and the government know this which is why they will hide behind excessive borrowing, stupid tax cuts and ridiculous infrastructure projects like the Irish Sea bridge. But at least he makes us laugh so it must be fine.
I’m sorry but the great British public, like you, are being duped by a series of sound bites, catch phrases and smoke and mirrors. We can now get on and worry about important issues like Man City being booted out of the champions league, love island and the masked singer and not have to worry about what happens in Westminster. It’s so much easier isn’t it?
I’m sorry but the great British public, like you, are being duped by a series of sound bites, catch phrases and smoke and mirrors. We can now get on and worry about important issues like Man City being booted out of the champions league, love island and the masked singer and not have to worry about what happens in Westminster. It’s so much easier isn’t it?
I'm sorry you were duped by the EU for so long.
In what way was I duped I wanted a European superstate as a precursor to a global government. Nationality is irrelevant and destructive as is religion.
I’m sorry but the great British public, like you, are being duped by a series of sound bites, catch phrases and smoke and mirrors. We can now get on and worry about important issues like Man City being booted out of the champions league, love island and the masked singer and not have to worry about what happens in Westminster. It’s so much easier isn’t it?
You do need to have a little more respect.
For someone who has been on this planet for 76 years I am not being 'duped' by sound bites and I have no care about City, do not know anything about love island or a masked singer
Indeed the cult of celebrity passes way over my head
However, because you have lost the argument to remain in the EU, and I voted remain, maybe try making a positive case for either re-joining or BINO than rather these sad attempts at belittling a poster
The only reason Johnson is getting improved brexit ratings is because the population no longer care what the outcome is as long as they don’t have to worry and listen to the issue. Just because you have been on the planet for x years gives you no greater insight on the world than a 21 year old, in fact the 21/year old knows more about the world he lives in than either you are I. There is no positive case for leaving the EU from my perspective and the government know this which is why they will hide behind excessive borrowing, stupid tax cuts and ridiculous infrastructure projects like the Irish Sea bridge. But at least he makes us laugh so it must be fine.
It's certainly true that many people believe Brexit has been "settled". That's partly why the government's position, by the end of this year, has the potential to be much, much more fragile than a number of people, both here and elsewhere, appear to believe, temporarily dazzled in this interim period by the razzmatazz and size of its majority.
Equally, politics in a year's time could be about whether the forces of hard Brexit are any longer relevant, if a soft Brexit has been pushed through with huge infrastractural and other spending to placate the North and Wales.
I’m sorry but the great British public, like you, are being duped by a series of sound bites, catch phrases and smoke and mirrors. We can now get on and worry about important issues like Man City being booted out of the champions league, love island and the masked singer and not have to worry about what happens in Westminster. It’s so much easier isn’t it?
You do need to have a little more respect.
For someone who has been on this planet for 76 years I am not being 'duped' by sound bites and I have no care about City, do not know anything about love island or a masked singer
Indeed the cult of celebrity passes way over my head
However, because you have lost the argument to remain in the EU, and I voted remain, maybe try making a positive case for either re-joining or BINO than rather these sad attempts at belittling a poster
The only reason Johnson is getting improved brexit ratings is because the population no longer care what the outcome is as long as they don’t have to worry and listen to the issue. Just because you have been on the planet for x years gives you no greater insight on the world than a 21 year old, in fact the 21/year old knows more about the world he lives in than either you are I. There is no positive case for leaving the EU from my perspective and the government know this which is why they will hide behind excessive borrowing, stupid tax cuts and ridiculous infrastructure projects like the Irish Sea bridge. But at least he makes us laugh so it must be fine.
If you think a 21 year old is more wordly wise than a 76 year old you have a problem
I’m sorry but the great British public, like you, are being duped by a series of sound bites, catch phrases and smoke and mirrors. We can now get on and worry about important issues like Man City being booted out of the champions league, love island and the masked singer and not have to worry about what happens in Westminster. It’s so much easier isn’t it?
You do need to have a little more respect.
For someone who has been on this planet for 76 years I am not being 'duped' by sound bites and I have no care about City, do not know anything about love island or a masked singer
Indeed the cult of celebrity passes way over my head
However, because you have lost the argument to remain in the EU, and I voted remain, maybe try making a positive case for either re-joining or BINO than rather these sad attempts at belittling a poster
The only reason Johnson is getting improved brexit ratings is because the population no longer care what the outcome is as long as they don’t have to worry and listen to the issue. Just because you have been on the planet for x years gives you no greater insight on the world than a 21 year old, in fact the 21/year old knows more about the world he lives in than either you are I. There is no positive case for leaving the EU from my perspective and the government know this which is why they will hide behind excessive borrowing, stupid tax cuts and ridiculous infrastructure projects like the Irish Sea bridge. But at least he makes us laugh so it must be fine.
If you think a 21 year old is more wordly wise than a 76 year old you have a problem
You suffer from the same problem many people of advanced years have in that you think age brings wisdom. What I wrote was that the 21 year old knows more about his world than you do and in many ways is more relevant. The most stupid people I have ever met have all been over70
I’m sorry but the great British public, like you, are being duped by a series of sound bites, catch phrases and smoke and mirrors. We can now get on and worry about important issues like Man City being booted out of the champions league, love island and the masked singer and not have to worry about what happens in Westminster. It’s so much easier isn’t it?
You do need to have a little more respect.
For someone who has been on this planet for 76 years I am not being 'duped' by sound bites and I have no care about City, do not know anything about love island or a masked singer
Indeed the cult of celebrity passes way over my head
However, because you have lost the argument to remain in the EU, and I voted remain, maybe try making a positive case for either re-joining or BINO than rather these sad attempts at belittling a poster
The only reason Johnson is getting improved brexit ratings is because the population no longer care what the outcome is as long as they don’t have to worry and listen to the issue. Just because you have been on the planet for x years gives you no greater insight on the world than a 21 year old, in fact the 21/year old knows more about the world he lives in than either you are I. There is no positive case for leaving the EU from my perspective and the government know this which is why they will hide behind excessive borrowing, stupid tax cuts and ridiculous infrastructure projects like the Irish Sea bridge. But at least he makes us laugh so it must be fine.
If you think a 21 year old is more wordly wise than a 76 year old you have a problem
You suffer from the same problem many people of advanced years have in that you think age brings wisdom. What I wrote was that the 21 year old knows more about his world than you do and in many ways is more relevant. The most stupid people I have ever met have all been over70
So someone who has been an adult for three years knows more about the world than someone who has been one for almost fifty?
Comments
This notion of sovereignty or control or whatever you want to call it is all well and good but we now need to have the big debate which is to ask ourselves what kind of country and society we do want to be in the 2020s and beyond.
This is the difficult stuff - I've argued here before leaving the EU provides an opportunity for the UK to re-think the nation state from the ground up and re-define such an entity for the 21st Century which might mean less Government, more devolution and an erosion of what has been the cohesive identity and the creation of something new.
The other aspect is the opportunity it provides to define the UK's place in the wider world - we coasted on from 1945 believing we were a big player because we had won the war and later when we got the Bomb that got us a seat at the top table but 2020 isn't 1945 - the world has changed, power has changed.
I'd argue knowledge is power (it always been I suppose) and I wonder if the UK can now lead in education and technological innovation in areas such as tackling climate change or mitigating food and water poverty. We have done incredibly well in power generation change though we have work to do on improving our own air quality and perhaps we can share the benefits with others.
What we have currently is not a situation comparable to Thatcher in 1983-7, or Blair in 1997, but the illusion of stability, after a long period where the instability was out in the open. The current government could find a pragmatic way through and win again, or it could unravel in adverse circumstances at the end of this year, long before 2023-4.
For someone who has been on this planet for 76 years I am not being 'duped' by sound bites and I have no care about City, do not know anything about love island or a masked singer
Indeed the cult of celebrity passes way over my head
However, because you have lost the argument to remain in the EU, and I voted remain, maybe try making a positive case for either re-joining or BINO than rather these sad attempts at belittling a poster
Equally, politics in a year's time could be about whether the forces of hard Brexit are any longer relevant, if a soft Brexit has been pushed through with huge infrastractural and other spending to placate the North and Wales.
resigned in protest because somebody thick sacked all its special advisers.