Did I read that right, Starmer is proposing extending the franchise to EU nationals?
EU nationals that will be third party nationals at the time of the next election?
He’s gone mad.
EU nationals who are ordinary resident in the UK I imagine. We treat Irish nationals the same way.
I don’t know the details though.
Devil is in the detail. For historic reasons Ireland is a special case of course; but why, a few years after Brexit, should a Lithuanian national in the UK have a vote but a Cameroonian or Peruvian not?
I don’t have a problem with anyone who is living here long term to vote in elections, regardless of where they are from.
I fail to see the reason for giving the vote to any (additional) non U.K citizens.
Using the Lithuanian example, they are still entitled to vote in Lithuania. Why should they get a vote in multiple states?
If they live here, they are part of the community. Why shouldn’t they have a say?
Bear in mind I don’t actually really care about this, this is not an important issue.
They are National elections, which has a nice symmetry with having the franchise of nationals of the Nation holding the election.
Local elections are local, and are open to those living in the locality, without a qualification by citezenship.
Internationally it would be unusual to open your National elections to visitors, be they here for 3 months or 3 years plus. If they want to vote, become a citizen.
"If there was a case of a young white boy with blond hair who later dabbled in class A drugs and conspired with a friend to beat up a journalist, would he deport that boy, or is it one rule for young black boys from the Caribbean and another for white boys from the United States?"
Between Johnson and Gove, is it fair to say that there is the potential for criminal conspiracy? Say if they were to have the same supplier?
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
The Commonwealth has the Commonwealth Games.
Bit odd that the UK has never done anything similar. They could have the British Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Unionist agenda to have UK nations competing against each other and they'd rather haven a UK team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
Are you kidding me? We compete all the time as the different Home Nations. England, Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland in football, rugby and all sorts of other competitions we compete as the separate home nations.
Including in the Commonwealth Games too. Scotland competes separately from England in the Commonwealth Games.
But given the regular abject failure of the Scottish sporting teams I'll forgive your ignorance in not realising it but Scotland even has its own football team - believe it or not!
Did I read that right, Starmer is proposing extending the franchise to EU nationals?
EU nationals that will be third party nationals at the time of the next election?
He’s gone mad.
EU nationals who are ordinary resident in the UK I imagine. We treat Irish nationals the same way.
I don’t know the details though.
Devil is in the detail. For historic reasons Ireland is a special case of course; but why, a few years after Brexit, should a Lithuanian national in the UK have a vote but a Cameroonian or Peruvian not?
I don’t have a problem with anyone who is living here long term to vote in elections, regardless of where they are from.
I fail to see the reason for giving the vote to any (additional) non U.K citizens.
Using the Lithuanian example, they are still entitled to vote in Lithuania. Why should they get a vote in multiple states?
If they live here, they are part of the community. Why shouldn’t they have a say?
Bear in mind I don’t actually really care about this, this is not an important issue.
Presumably then that logic should be extended to everyone who is here - regardless of where they are from originally, be it Lithuania, Lesotho or Laos?
I strongly disagree, I will never give a penny of my money to the BBC as is not just deceitful organisation but is prim objective seems to be to venerates all that I hate and criticize, marginalize and ridicule me and my deeply held belief system.
Gosh. That must be one hell of a Belief System you've got there!
Did I read that right, Starmer is proposing extending the franchise to EU nationals?
EU nationals that will be third party nationals at the time of the next election?
He’s gone mad.
EU nationals who are ordinary resident in the UK I imagine. We treat Irish nationals the same way.
I don’t know the details though.
Devil is in the detail. For historic reasons Ireland is a special case of course; but why, a few years after Brexit, should a Lithuanian national in the UK have a vote but a Cameroonian or Peruvian not?
I don’t have a problem with anyone who is living here long term to vote in elections, regardless of where they are from.
I fail to see the reason for giving the vote to any (additional) non U.K citizens.
Using the Lithuanian example, they are still entitled to vote in Lithuania. Why should they get a vote in multiple states?
If they live here, they are part of the community. Why shouldn’t they have a say?
Bear in mind I don’t actually really care about this, this is not an important issue.
Presumably then that logic should be extended to everyone who is here - regardless of where they are from originally, be it Lithuania, Lesotho or Laos?
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
The Commonwealth has the Commonwealth Games.
Bit odd that the UK has never done anything similar. They could have the British Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Unionist agenda to have UK nations competing against each other and they'd rather haven a UK team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
Are you kidding me? We compete all the time as the different Home Nations. England, Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland in football, rugby and all sorts of other competitions we compete as the separate home nations.
Including in the Commonwealth Games too. Scotland competes separately from England in the Commonwealth Games.
But given the regular abject failure of the Scottish sporting teams I'll forgive your ignorance in not realising it but Scotland even has its own football team - believe it or not!
France and Italy once played a high-profile football match, but the behaviour at the end suggested that it would be wise not to let them get too hung up on national identity at the expense of more concrete goals.
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
He’s got it in one.
They’d be worried it’d promote national identity, so they’re not interested.
You guys are obsessed with the EU. You need to get over it.
but I would love that to be a question in the next yougov or similer, if you had to give live without one for a year would it be Youtube or the BBC
No BBC would leave a hole in my life. Bereft would be hyperbole but I'd notice and miss it a lot. The year would drag and I'd be constantly looking at the calendar and urging it to get a move on.
No YouTube for a year? Shame, shrug, forget it. But nice to have it back when the time is up.
That's how I would answer such a question from YouGov. If there was sufficient space.
Look at the BBC from the opposite direction.
If it didn't exist, would we set it up now? What function would we want it to fulfil?
Mostly the public service remit: world news to 'Economist' standard, Parliament live, World Service, the stuff at the heart of Radio 4, rolling high quality news and comment, independently holding power to account. But without the luvvie and liberal bias, the faux populism of Radio 5 and the stuff that is either better not done at all, better done by subscription and better done by advertising.
I often find the BBC irritating, but on the whole it is a good thing. The BBC is fast becoming the new bete noir of the reactionary right wing to displace the EU as something to get angry about. They really do need to take a chill pill.
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
The Commonwealth has the Commonwealth Games.
Bit odd that the UK has never done anything similar. They could have the British Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Unionist agenda to have UK nations competing against each other and they'd rather haven a UK team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
Are you kidding me? We compete all the time as the different Home Nations. England, Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland in football, rugby and all sorts of other competitions we compete as the separate home nations.
Including in the Commonwealth Games too. Scotland competes separately from England in the Commonwealth Games.
But given the regular abject failure of the Scottish sporting teams I'll forgive your ignorance in not realising it but Scotland even has its own football team - believe it or not!
Jeez if the propogation of such evidently fake news is not worthy of the ban hammer, what in the name of ********* on ***** is??
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
The Commonwealth has the Commonwealth Games.
Bit odd that the UK has never done anything similar. They could have the British Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Unionist agenda to have UK nations competing against each other and they'd rather haven a UK team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
The UK isn’t trying to create a federal political union from pre-existing polities - it’s already a unitary state.
The Commonwealth has nations of all sorts of shapes and sizes competing. The UK would be far too dominant if it competed as one so it’s quite right it’s broken down by territory.
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
The Commonwealth has the Commonwealth Games.
Bit odd that the UK has never done anything similar. They could have the British Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Unionist agenda to have UK nations competing against each other and they'd rather haven a UK team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
Are you kidding me? We compete all the time as the different Home Nations. England, Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland in football, rugby and all sorts of other competitions we compete as the separate home nations.
Including in the Commonwealth Games too. Scotland competes separately from England in the Commonwealth Games.
But given the regular abject failure of the Scottish sporting teams I'll forgive your ignorance in not realising it but Scotland does indeed even has its own football team even believe it or not!
Yebbut you put forward a very specific proposal, 'the European Games' organised by the EU. It was gibberish and what I proposed was gibberish*, but fact, there is no such thing as 'the British Games'. Nice retreat into little Englander triumphalism btw.
*Not to say that this isn't exactly the type of meaningless bollox that BJ and his crew would fly a kite for.
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
He’s got it in one.
They’d be worried it’d promote national identity, so they’re not interested.
You guys are obsessed with the EU. You need to get over it.
They can't. I was speaking with a leaver the other night and she was still so angry about the EU it was like they had lost the referendum. I had to remind her that though it was by small margin, they won! It is sadly just a hatred of the foreigner thing.
The angriest person about the EU on this forum is you.
If only things you'd call drivel are what you dislike him doing, just because you dislike it, that doesn't make it drivel. If you can come up with pledges Johnson made that he abandoned the second he was elected that would be drivel - do you have any?
"Under no circumstances, whatever happens, will I allow the EU or anyone else to create any kind of division down the Irish Sea or attenuate our Union”
I would argue he hasn't done so, as does he. You disagree but we could go around in circles on that one.
Anything else? Or is that it?
All will be revealed on January 1st 2021. If you need paperwork due to customs between Scotland and Ireland then yep - he's created a division...
He said he wouldn't allow the EU to create a division. The very nature of devolved governments is they do different things and that creates differences - blame Blair for that not Johnson.
Stormont having devolved differences is their local decision within the union.
but I would love that to be a question in the next yougov or similer, if you had to give live without one for a year would it be Youtube or the BBC
No BBC would leave a hole in my life. Bereft would be hyperbole but I'd notice and miss it a lot. The year would drag and I'd be constantly looking at the calendar and urging it to get a move on.
No YouTube for a year? Shame, shrug, forget it. But nice to have it back when the time is up.
That's how I would answer such a question from YouGov. If there was sufficient space.
Look at the BBC from the opposite direction.
If it didn't exist, would we set it up now? What function would we want it to fulfil?
Mostly the public service remit: world news to 'Economist' standard, Parliament live, World Service, the stuff at the heart of Radio 4, rolling high quality news and comment, independently holding power to account. But without the luvvie and liberal bias, the faux populism of Radio 5 and the stuff that is either better not done at all, better done by subscription and better done by advertising.
I often find the BBC irritating, but on the whole it is a good thing. The BBC is fast becoming the new bete noir of the reactionary right wing to displace the EU as something to get angry about. They really do need to take a chill pill.
Agree. Almost certainly whatever replaced it would be worse.
I strongly disagree, I will never give a penny of my money to the BBC as is not just deceitful organisation but is prim objective seems to be to venerates all that I hate and criticize, marginalize and ridicule me and my deeply held belief system.
Gosh. That must be one hell of a Belief System you've got there!
Starmer might overestimate the level of support from EU nationals for Left wing policies. It is a proposal which might not be entirely to his party's advantage.
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
The Commonwealth has the Commonwealth Games.
Bit odd that the UK has never done anything similar. They could have the British Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Unionist agenda to have UK nations competing against each other and they'd rather haven a UK team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
Are you kidding me? We compete all the time as the different Home Nations. England, Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland in football, rugby and all sorts of other competitions we compete as the separate home nations.
Including in the Commonwealth Games too. Scotland competes separately from England in the Commonwealth Games.
But given the regular abject failure of the Scottish sporting teams I'll forgive your ignorance in not realising it but Scotland does indeed even has its own football team even believe it or not!
Yebbut you put forward a very specific proposal, 'the European Games' organised by the EU. It was gibberish and what I proposed was gibberish*, but fact there is no such thing as 'the British Games'. Nice retreat into little Englander triumphalism btw.
*Not to say that this isn't exactly the type of meaningless bollox that BJ and his crew would fly a kite for.
"The British Games" as you put it could be considered a subset of the Commonwealth Games which we do help organise.
The EU has no equivalent unless you wish to ignore Europe and view the whole globe and have the Olympics - but if you wish to embrace the whole globe and not just Europe then welcome to my world.
If only things you'd call drivel are what you dislike him doing, just because you dislike it, that doesn't make it drivel. If you can come up with pledges Johnson made that he abandoned the second he was elected that would be drivel - do you have any?
"Under no circumstances, whatever happens, will I allow the EU or anyone else to create any kind of division down the Irish Sea or attenuate our Union”
I would argue he hasn't done so, as does he. You disagree but we could go around in circles on that one.
Anything else? Or is that it?
"Any kind of division" sounds pretty broad, I'd be curious to hear why a "customs border" doesn't meet that definition.
Plenty of ministers have had to waffle, and talk around this subject, and tend to avoid using the same language as the PM.
The customs border is at the UK border, international law and the agreement states that explicitly.
There are some devolved operational differences that only continue with the consent of the devolved Assembly but then that's already the case so moot. If NI isn't happy with the devolved difference they can vote to end them in the devolved assembly, the EU isn't compelling NI to have any differences they don't choose in their own Assembly.
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
The Commonwealth has the Commonwealth Games.
Bit odd that the UK has never done anything similar. They could have the British Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Unionist agenda to have UK nations competing against each other and they'd rather haven a UK team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
Are you kidding me? We compete all the time as the different Home Nations. England, Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland in football, rugby and all sorts of other competitions we compete as the separate home nations.
Including in the Commonwealth Games too. Scotland competes separately from England in the Commonwealth Games.
But given the regular abject failure of the Scottish sporting teams I'll forgive your ignorance in not realising it but Scotland even has its own football team - believe it or not!
Jeez if the propogation of such evidently fake news is not worthy of the ban hammer, what in the name of ********* on ***** is??
Starmer might overestimate the level of support from EU nationals for Left wing policies. It is a proposal which might not be entirely to his party's advantage.
On all issues other than the EU itself, and possibly skilled migration, I’d expect naturalised EU residents to broadly follow the socioeconomic splits of domestic UK residents, and increasingly so over time.
They’re not a ready pool of reserve voters for Labour.
"The British Games" as you put it could be considered a subset of the Commonwealth Games which we do help organise.
The EU has no equivalent unless you wish to ignore Europe and view the whole globe and have the Olympics - but if you wish to embrace the whole globe and not just Europe then welcome to my world.
If only things you'd call drivel are what you dislike him doing, just because you dislike it, that doesn't make it drivel. If you can come up with pledges Johnson made that he abandoned the second he was elected that would be drivel - do you have any?
"Under no circumstances, whatever happens, will I allow the EU or anyone else to create any kind of division down the Irish Sea or attenuate our Union”
I would argue he hasn't done so, as does he. You disagree but we could go around in circles on that one.
Anything else? Or is that it?
You’re like a parody.
Do you want to answer the question?
Starmer has come up with 10 cards worth of bizarre pledges that we're supposed to ignore as meaningless leadership drivel. As apparently Johnson was just the same. So presumably you can find at least 10 points of "drivel" Johnson came up with during his campaign.
You claim Irish Sea, I'm not going to argue with that as its futile, anything else or is that it?
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
The Commonwealth has the Commonwealth Games.
Bit odd that the UK has never done anything similar. They could have the British Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Unionist agenda to have UK nations competing against each other and they'd rather haven a UK team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
Are you kidding me? We compete all the time as the different Home Nations. England, Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland in football, rugby and all sorts of other competitions we compete as the separate home nations.
Including in the Commonwealth Games too. Scotland competes separately from England in the Commonwealth Games.
But given the regular abject failure of the Scottish sporting teams I'll forgive your ignorance in not realising it but Scotland does indeed even has its own football team even believe it or not!
Yebbut you put forward a very specific proposal, 'the European Games' organised by the EU. It was gibberish and what I proposed was gibberish*, but fact there is no such thing as 'the British Games'. Nice retreat into little Englander triumphalism btw.
*Not to say that this isn't exactly the type of meaningless bollox that BJ and his crew would fly a kite for.
"The British Games" as you put it could be considered a subset of the Commonwealth Games which we do help organise.
The EU has no equivalent unless you wish to ignore Europe and view the whole globe and have the Olympics - but if you wish to embrace the whole globe and not just Europe then welcome to my world.
That is it. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier and I claim my £5. Europe as a continent has plenty of sporting competitions. Just because they are not specifically under the #EU's remit does not mean they aren't supported by it's policies and it's member states.
My wife and I love the Big Bang Theory. If there's nothing on or we just want some background noise we often put that on, on Netflix. 14 seasons, 279 episodes. The BBC just can't compete with that.
My issue with the BBC isn't that its great but left or anything like that. The fact is its just not that great. And people need to realise that sooner than later - my generation just does not watch that much BBC - and this isn't a thing that will change with age like left v right, we've grown up with choice and have embraced it.
Unless older people making decisions realise that and adopt changes sooner than later then it is only a matter of time before people that have no love at all for the BBC will make decisions over its future. I couldn't care less if the BBC lives or dies, if you do you should want it on a sustainable model. ITV, Sky, Netflix and more sustain themselves, why can't the BBC?
Away from drama, another problem is how accessible high quality camera gear and the editing tools are now. You only have to see just how much the production quality on some YouTube channels have improved in a few years. Increasingly they have teams of trained camera operators, editors, etc.
e.g. Linus Tech Tips is just as high quality a production as BBC Click tech show and the difference is LTT put out a new video daily. In fact they release in 4k, unlike the BBC.
A bit like 30-40 years ago you couldn't product high quality music without access to a handful of professional studio, now lots of people can do it from their bedroom.
BBC Click is a programme which makes me think, “what audience are they targeting?”. If it’s enthusiasts, they’ll know anyway and in more detailed terms. If it’s the mass public, BBC News is not the most obvious location. If it’s bored expats with access to only a few English language channels, that’s a limited market. Perhaps it’s just cheap, repeatable, filler.
I’d be genuinely interested in knowing what they think they’re doing with it. And the audience figures.
Yep, it’s filler for international hotel rooms, in the hotels that still try and charge you £20 a day for wifi.
I've got a great idea. Let's allow people to be nominated for the citizen's assembly (you have to collect a number of signatures from your local area), then let the people of that local area gather together to freely vote on who represents them from those nominees. Those elected can have the significant decision making power in a citizen's assembly, or "council".
If only things you'd call drivel are what you dislike him doing, just because you dislike it, that doesn't make it drivel. If you can come up with pledges Johnson made that he abandoned the second he was elected that would be drivel - do you have any?
"Under no circumstances, whatever happens, will I allow the EU or anyone else to create any kind of division down the Irish Sea or attenuate our Union”
I would argue he hasn't done so, as does he. You disagree but we could go around in circles on that one.
Anything else? Or is that it?
You’re like a parody.
Do you want to answer the question?
Starmer has come up with 10 cards worth of bizarre pledges that we're supposed to ignore as meaningless leadership drivel. As apparently Johnson was just the same. So presumably you can find at least 10 points of "drivel" Johnson came up with during his campaign.
You claim Irish Sea, I'm not going to argue with that as its futile, anything else or is that it?
How about fracking for No 2 spot?
I must admit I don't remember Johnson saying anything about fracking during the leadership campaign. What did he say and how was it drivel?
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
He’s got it in one.
They’d be worried it’d promote national identity, so they’re not interested.
You guys are obsessed with the EU. You need to get over it.
They can't. I was speaking with a leaver the other night and she was still so angry about the EU it was like they had lost the referendum. I had to remind her that though it was by small margin, they won! It is sadly just a hatred of the foreigner thing.
Isn’t it remarkable how some people have events happen to them which reinforce their own view of their correctness and allow them to explain how much cleverer and morally superior they are.
I've got a great idea. Let's allow people to be nominated for the citizen's assembly (you have to collect a number of signatures from your local area), then let the people of that local area gather together to freely vote on who represents them from those nominees. Those elected can have the significant decision making power in a citizen's assembly, or "council".
Alternatively, we could just ask MD to unleash his enormo-haddock on ER.
I've got a great idea. Let's allow people to be nominated for the citizen's assembly (you have to collect a number of signatures from your local area), then let the people of that local area gather together to freely vote on who represents them from those nominees. Those elected can have the significant decision making power in a citizen's assembly, or "council".
Alternatively, we could just ask MD to unleash his enormo-haddock on ER.
An idea I think that will get support across the spectrum here.
I strongly disagree, I will never give a penny of my money to the BBC as is not just deceitful organisation but is prim objective seems to be to venerates all that I hate and criticize, marginalize and ridicule me and my deeply held belief system.
Gosh. That must be one hell of a Belief System you've got there!
Can we have a snippet?
um, I'm not shore if you are being sarcastic, the A in Anrco-Capitalist coulars on my avatar is normally a give away.
but: I Believe in freedom of the individuate, freedom of association, freedom of speech, freedom to love, freedom to contract, freedom to trade, freedom to move, freedom of religion, freedom to innovate, and and so on.
and against, imitation of force, and supposed calls to sacrifice for the 'common good' as described by somebody else.
but this is about the BBC not me, if I did brake the law and watched some live ITV and was cout, would you see it as a good use of your tax money to put me in to prison for not paying the BBC for the privilege of watching there competitor.
Bit odd that the EU has never done anything similar. They could have the European Games every 4 years but don't.
Probably because it doesn't suit the Eurocrats agenda to have EU countries nationals competing against each other and they'd rather haven a European team competing against others but its the sort of thing a healthy self-confident organisation should really organise.
He’s got it in one.
They’d be worried it’d promote national identity, so they’re not interested.
You guys are obsessed with the EU. You need to get over it.
They can't. I was speaking with a leaver the other night and she was still so angry about the EU it was like they had lost the referendum. I had to remind her that though it was by small margin, they won! It is sadly just a hatred of the foreigner thing.
Isn’t it remarkable how some people have events happen to them which reinforce their own view of their correctness and allow them to explain how much cleverer and morally superior they are.
What luck.
Are you saying it was naive of me to file that post under "things which actually happened?"
If it didn't exist, would we set it up now? What function would we want it to fulfil?
Yes, that's a good technique. I like to pose that one with private schools.
But with the BBC. Yes, IMO we would not only want to, we would feel an urgent need to.
Mandate? A quick starter for ten -
News and current affairs with a charter of impartiality as to political party. Drama and documentary with focus on 'made here'. Low cost light entertainment (e.g. soaps and gameshows). Portfolio of nationally important sporting events (e.g. World Cup). Portfolio of nationally important cultural events (e.g. Glasto and the Proms).
I'm sure that you've already seen @MaxPB but the Chinese GP has been officially postponed - and comments already about struggling to put it somewhere else.
The reason they’re saying ‘postponed’ is because neither the local promoter nor F1 can be allowed to be the person cancelling the event - a very large race fee paid by the former to the latter depends on this. The logistics of the modern F1 season make it very unlikely that the race can be rescheduled, so what will happen is that the teams will refuse to agree to a rescheduled date, and the promoter and F1 will split the difference on the race fee.
If it didn't exist, would we set it up now? What function would we want it to fulfil?
Yes, that's a good technique. I like to pose that one with private schools.
But with the BBC. Yes, IMO we would not only want to, we would feel an urgent need to.
Mandate? A quick starter for ten -
News and current affairs with a charter of impartiality as to political party. Drama and documentary with focus on 'made here'. Low cost light entertainment (e.g. soaps and gameshows). Portfolio of nationally important sporting events (e.g. World Cup). Portfolio of nationally important cultural events (e.g. Glasto and the Proms).
I think by the very compilation of that list you are exposing to yourself its several flaws.
My wife and I love the Big Bang Theory. If there's nothing on or we just want some background noise we often put that on, on Netflix. 14 seasons, 279 episodes. The BBC just can't compete with that.
My issue with the BBC isn't that its great but left or anything like that. The fact is its just not that great. And people need to realise that sooner than later - my generation just does not watch that much BBC - and this isn't a thing that will change with age like left v right, we've grown up with choice and have embraced it.
Unless older people making decisions realise that and adopt changes sooner than later then it is only a matter of time before people that have no love at all for the BBC will make decisions over its future. I couldn't care less if the BBC lives or dies, if you do you should want it on a sustainable model. ITV, Sky, Netflix and more sustain themselves, why can't the BBC?
Away from drama, another problem is how accessible high quality camera gear and the editing tools are now. You only have to see just how much the production quality on some YouTube channels have improved in a few years. Increasingly they have teams of trained camera operators, editors, etc.
e.g. Linus Tech Tips is just as high quality a production as BBC Click tech show and the difference is LTT put out a new video daily. In fact they release in 4k, unlike the BBC.
A bit like 30-40 years ago you couldn't product high quality music without access to a handful of professional studio, now lots of people can do it from their bedroom.
BBC Click is a programme which makes me think, “what audience are they targeting?”. If it’s enthusiasts, they’ll know anyway and in more detailed terms. If it’s the mass public, BBC News is not the most obvious location. If it’s bored expats with access to only a few English language channels, that’s a limited market. Perhaps it’s just cheap, repeatable, filler.
I’d be genuinely interested in knowing what they think they’re doing with it. And the audience figures.
Yep, it’s filler for international hotel rooms, in the hotels that still try and charge you £20 a day for wifi.
Such hotels still exist? They still get guests staying with them?
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
That is it. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier and I claim my £5. Europe as a continent has plenty of sporting competitions. Just because they are not specifically under the #EU's remit does not mean they aren't supported by it's policies and it's member states.
Thank goodness somebody has finally piped up on this. I was wondering whether all those "European Championships" I've been glued to for decades in all of those various sports had been a symptom of some sort of fugue state I've been slipping in and out of. What a relief (!) to discover that this is not the case.
That is it. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier and I claim my £5. Europe as a continent has plenty of sporting competitions. Just because they are not specifically under the #EU's remit does not mean they aren't supported by it's policies and it's member states.
Thank goodness somebody has finally piped up on this. I was wondering whether all those "European Championships" I've been glued to for decades in all of those various sports had been a symptom of some sort of fugue state I've been slipping in and out of. What a relief (!) to discover that this is not the case.
Except for the football one they're a bit shit compared to the Commonwealth Games, but if that's the best of your aspirations then so be it.
I've got a great idea. Let's allow people to be nominated for the citizen's assembly (you have to collect a number of signatures from your local area), then let the people of that local area gather together to freely vote on who represents them from those nominees. Those elected can have the significant decision making power in a citizen's assembly, or "council".
Alternatively, we could just ask MD to unleash his enormo-haddock on ER.
That is it. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier and I claim my £5. Europe as a continent has plenty of sporting competitions. Just because they are not specifically under the #EU's remit does not mean they aren't supported by it's policies and it's member states.
Thank goodness somebody has finally piped up on this. I was wondering whether all those "European Championships" I've been glued to for decades in all of those various sports had been a symptom of some sort of fugue state I've been slipping in and out of. What a relief (!) to discover that this is not the case.
Except for the football one they're a bit shit compared to the Commonwealth Games, but if that's the best of your aspirations then so be it.
The Commonwealth Games are better than the Champions League?
What are the viewing figures?
Edit: I see you said "except for the football". Slightly Mrs Lincoln tbh.
Amidst all the discussion about Bloomberg, there's been hardly any mention of what Tom Steyer is up to. The thing is: although he has the square root of zero chance of getting very far, he is polling remarkably well in the next two contests. RCP's average has him at 18.5% in South Carolina (second) and 10% in Nevada (fourth, ahead of Mayor Pete on 7% and Amy on 3%).
Admittedly, those figures are probably well out of date, and in practice his support is probably substantially less than those figures. If so, or if he withdraws, they represent a useful chunk of support which will go elsewhere, and could be significant.
If it didn't exist, would we set it up now? What function would we want it to fulfil?
Yes, that's a good technique. I like to pose that one with private schools.
But with the BBC. Yes, IMO we would not only want to, we would feel an urgent need to.
Mandate? A quick starter for ten -
News and current affairs with a charter of impartiality as to political party. Drama and documentary with focus on 'made here'. Low cost light entertainment (e.g. soaps and gameshows). Portfolio of nationally important sporting events (e.g. World Cup). Portfolio of nationally important cultural events (e.g. Glasto and the Proms).
Your first is difficult (not impossible) to argue with. The other 4, not so much; those are personal preferences. 2 and 3 particularly not when you consider the commissioning model they've moved to now.
I guess the question that arises, though, is if we pare it back to the absolute essentials - and agree that these are essentials - why isn't it funded out of direct taxation, rather than an enforced-with-menaces licence fee?
That is it. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier and I claim my £5. Europe as a continent has plenty of sporting competitions. Just because they are not specifically under the #EU's remit does not mean they aren't supported by it's policies and it's member states.
Thank goodness somebody has finally piped up on this. I was wondering whether all those "European Championships" I've been glued to for decades in all of those various sports had been a symptom of some sort of fugue state I've been slipping in and out of. What a relief (!) to discover that this is not the case.
Except for the football one they're a bit shit compared to the Commonwealth Games, but if that's the best of your aspirations then so be it.
The Commonwealth Games are better than the Champions League?
What are the viewing figures?
Edit: I see you said "except for the football". Slightly Mrs Lincoln tbh.
Football is its own sporting world. Football World Cup v Football in the Olympics for example. Hence why I separated it.
The Commonwealth Games is comparable to the Olympics, the "European Games" are not.
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
My wife and I love the Big Bang Theory. If there's nothing on or we just want some background noise we often put that on, on Netflix. 14 seasons, 279 episodes. The BBC just can't compete with that.
My issue with the BBC isn't that its great but left or anything like that. The fact is its just not that great. And people need to realise that sooner than later - my generation just does not watch that much BBC - and this isn't a thing that will change with age like left v right, we've grown up with choice and have embraced it.
Unless older people making decisions realise that and adopt changes sooner than later then it is only a matter of time before people that have no love at all for the BBC will make decisions over its future. I couldn't care less if the BBC lives or dies, if you do you should want it on a sustainable model. ITV, Sky, Netflix and more sustain themselves, why can't the BBC?
Away from drama, another problem is how accessible high quality camera gear and the editing tools are now. You only have to see just how much the production quality on some YouTube channels have improved in a few years. Increasingly they have teams of trained camera operators, editors, etc.
e.g. Linus Tech Tips is just as high quality a production as BBC Click tech show and the difference is LTT put out a new video daily. In fact they release in 4k, unlike the BBC.
A bit like 30-40 years ago you couldn't product high quality music without access to a handful of professional studio, now lots of people can do it from their bedroom.
BBC Click is a programme which makes me think, “what audience are they targeting?”. If it’s enthusiasts, they’ll know anyway and in more detailed terms. If it’s the mass public, BBC News is not the most obvious location. If it’s bored expats with access to only a few English language channels, that’s a limited market. Perhaps it’s just cheap, repeatable, filler.
I’d be genuinely interested in knowing what they think they’re doing with it. And the audience figures.
Yep, it’s filler for international hotel rooms, in the hotels that still try and charge you £20 a day for wifi.
Such hotels still exist? They still get guests staying with them?
I was in one the other week. Apparently they’ve a year left of the 10-year contract with the WiFi ‘service provider’ who put the kit in for ‘free’. Thankfully I was only there for 10 hours, eight of which were spent sleeping!
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
This is Britbox it has 600,000 none UK subscribers. But its relegated to the US and Canada for the forseeable....
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
No way it could compete. The 'other' ways are very comprehensive and very cheap. Speaking for a friend.
Amidst all the discussion about Bloomberg, there's been hardly any mention of what Tom Steyer is up to. The thing is: although he has the square root of zero chance of getting very far, he is polling remarkably well in the next two contests. RCP's average has him at 18.5% in South Carolina (second) and 10% in Nevada (fourth, ahead of Mayor Pete on 7% and Amy on 3%).
Admittedly, those figures are probably well out of date, and in practice his support is probably substantially less than those figures. If so, or if he withdraws, they represent a useful chunk of support which will go elsewhere, and could be significant.
When he withdraws I'm looking forward to the "Steyer out the window" headlines.
I've got a great idea. Let's allow people to be nominated for the citizen's assembly (you have to collect a number of signatures from your local area), then let the people of that local area gather together to freely vote on who represents them from those nominees. Those elected can have the significant decision making power in a citizen's assembly, or "council".
Alternatively, we could just ask MD to unleash his enormo-haddock on ER.
That is it. You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier and I claim my £5. Europe as a continent has plenty of sporting competitions. Just because they are not specifically under the #EU's remit does not mean they aren't supported by it's policies and it's member states.
Thank goodness somebody has finally piped up on this. I was wondering whether all those "European Championships" I've been glued to for decades in all of those various sports had been a symptom of some sort of fugue state I've been slipping in and out of. What a relief (!) to discover that this is not the case.
Except for the football one they're a bit shit compared to the Commonwealth Games, but if that's the best of your aspirations then so be it.
The Commonwealth Games are better than the Champions League?
What are the viewing figures?
Edit: I see you said "except for the football". Slightly Mrs Lincoln tbh.
Football is its own sporting world. Football World Cup v Football in the Olympics for example. Hence why I separated it.
The Commonwealth Games is comparable to the Olympics, the "European Games" are not.
The Commonwealth Games are like the Great North Run. Not really that interesting. And comparable to the Olympics? Who is the current Commonwealth 100m champion?
um, I'm not shore if you are being sarcastic, the A in Anrco-Capitalist coulars on my avatar is normally a give away.
but: I Believe in freedom of the individuate, freedom of association, freedom of speech, freedom to love, freedom to contract, freedom to trade, freedom to move, freedom of religion, freedom to innovate, and and so on.
and against, imitation of force, and supposed calls to sacrifice for the 'common good' as described by somebody else.
but this is about the BBC not me, if I did brake the law and watched some live ITV and was cout, would you see it as a good use of your tax money to put me in to prison for not paying the BBC for the privilege of watching there competitor.
No, I was genuinely curious, so thanks. And it IS about you (as well as the Beeb) because you said the Beeb angers you by ridiculing your belief system.
Anyway, so if I was to say "freedom" is the watchword, I think I'm getting warm.
But couple of questions -
What about the freedom to bear arms?
What about a police force? And an army? And a legal system. Courts? Prisons?
Why do you worry only about oppression by the state when there are so many other ways in which an individual can be oppressed?
For example, anarcho-capitalist, = no state, what's to stop the whole place ending up being ruled by a bunch of ruthless mobsters and everyone else getting screwed to the wall?
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
They don’t own the international rights.
Indeed. They make good money selling TG etc to international broadcasters, and the sports rights are sold by nation so the Beeb can’t replay them abroad. But the rest of their content is a total gold mine for those living abroad.
Also, the tens of millions of English language students who would quite happily watch ‘Are you being served?’ repeats all day.
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
This is Britbox it has 600,000 none UK subscribers. But its relegated to the US and Canada for the forseeable....
Yep, something like that but worldwide. Would make way more money than selling obscure satellite channels in a hundred different markets.
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
This is Britbox it has 600,000 none UK subscribers. But its relegated to the US and Canada for the forseeable....
Yep, something like that but worldwide. Would make way more money than selling obscure satellite channels in a hundred different markets.
Won't be a big hit. Selling rights to shows works better than selling subscriptions worldwide and once you've sold the rights to the good shows who's going to pay for the rest of the dross?
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
They don’t own the international rights.
Indeed. They make good money selling TG etc to international broadcasters, and the sports rights are sold by nation so the Beeb can’t replay them abroad. But the rest of their content is a total gold mine for those living abroad.
Also, the tens of millions of English language students who would quite happily watch ‘Are you being served?’ repeats all day.
Seriously? I think English language students would rather watch Friends etc than Are you being served? Coming back to what we discussed earlier about the UK's lack of 100+ episode dramas for people to get stuck into forever.
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
No way it could compete. The 'other' ways are very comprehensive and very cheap. Speaking for a friend.
A friend of mine makes a very good living indeed from selling the ‘other’ way in some parts of the world. There’s a demand that’s currently going to the black market, that the BBC should be taking advantage of.
Your first is difficult (not impossible) to argue with. The other 4, not so much; those are personal preferences. 2 and 3 particularly not when you consider the commissioning model they've moved to now.
I guess the question that arises, though, is if we pare it back to the absolute essentials - and agree that these are essentials - why isn't it funded out of direct taxation, rather than an enforced-with-menaces licence fee?
I agree with you on 2 points. The Beeb should indeed be pared down in drama, doc and light entertainment. And I too favour general taxation over the licence fee.
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
This is Britbox it has 600,000 none UK subscribers. But its relegated to the US and Canada for the forseeable....
Yep, something like that but worldwide. Would make way more money than selling obscure satellite channels in a hundred different markets.
Won't be a big hit. Selling rights to shows works better than selling subscriptions worldwide and once you've sold the rights to the good shows who's going to pay for the rest of the dross?
There’s definitely a market in my part of the world for the dross, and yes the premium shows will often get syndicated to international markets for a lot more money - but that’s a tiny fraction of the total BBC output.
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
This is Britbox it has 600,000 none UK subscribers. But its relegated to the US and Canada for the forseeable....
Yep, something like that but worldwide. Would make way more money than selling obscure satellite channels in a hundred different markets.
Won't be a big hit. Selling rights to shows works better than selling subscriptions worldwide and once you've sold the rights to the good shows who's going to pay for the rest of the dross?
There’s definitely a market in my part of the world for the dross, and yes the premium shows will often get syndicated to international markets for a lot more money - but that’s a tiny fraction of the total BBC output.
I agree that good shows are a tiny fraction of the total BBC output. That's my primary complaint about being taxed to pay for that dross.
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
They don’t own the international rights.
Indeed. They make good money selling TG etc to international broadcasters, and the sports rights are sold by nation so the Beeb can’t replay them abroad. But the rest of their content is a total gold mine for those living abroad.
Also, the tens of millions of English language students who would quite happily watch ‘Are you being served?’ repeats all day.
Seriously? I think English language students would rather watch Friends etc than Are you being served? Coming back to what we discussed earlier about the UK's lack of 100+ episode dramas for people to get stuck into forever.
The competition internationally is Netflix. Massive shows like Friends get syndicated into foreign markets then dubbed by local actors into the local language. What the international students really like is good subtitles on original English audio.
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
They don’t own the international rights.
Indeed. They make good money selling TG etc to international broadcasters, and the sports rights are sold by nation so the Beeb can’t replay them abroad. But the rest of their content is a total gold mine for those living abroad.
Also, the tens of millions of English language students who would quite happily watch ‘Are you being served?’ repeats all day.
Seriously? I think English language students would rather watch Friends etc than Are you being served? Coming back to what we discussed earlier about the UK's lack of 100+ episode dramas for people to get stuck into forever.
The competition internationally is Netflix. Massive shows like Friends get syndicated into foreign markets then dubbed by local actors into the local language. What the international students really like is good subtitles on original English audio.
I thought with Netflix you could choose the audio track if it was dubbed? So you can choose the dubbed version or choose the original?
The descent of the Labour leadership contest into a massive fight between the feminists and the trans rights activists will be fantastic to watch - from 3,500 miles away!
Except for the football one they're a bit shit compared to the Commonwealth Games, but if that's the best of your aspirations then so be it.
The Euro Super State Athletics for one would be (rightly) offended by that. And that is quite a generous view you have of the quality & prestige of the Commonwealths. As I recall, they are mainly notable for our lads and lasses getting lots of golds as compared to the occasional "plucky bronze" against all comers in the Olympics.
And, look, what on earth do you mean, the best of MY aspirations? I'm not targeting the Commonwealth OR the European championships, let alone the Olympics. Those days are long behind me.
I'm sure that you've already seen @MaxPB but the Chinese GP has been officially postponed - and comments already about struggling to put it somewhere else.
The reason they’re saying ‘postponed’ is because neither the local promoter nor F1 can be allowed to be the person cancelling the event - a very large race fee paid by the former to the latter depends on this. The logistics of the modern F1 season make it very unlikely that the race can be rescheduled, so what will happen is that the teams will refuse to agree to a rescheduled date, and the promoter and F1 will split the difference on the race fee.
They are saying the inaugural Vietnam GP might be postponed too.
On the BBC, the single biggest way they could raise revenue is selling international subscriptions to the iPlayer.
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
They don’t own the international rights.
Indeed. They make good money selling TG etc to international broadcasters, and the sports rights are sold by nation so the Beeb can’t replay them abroad. But the rest of their content is a total gold mine for those living abroad.
Also, the tens of millions of English language students who would quite happily watch ‘Are you being served?’ repeats all day.
Seriously? I think English language students would rather watch Friends etc than Are you being served? Coming back to what we discussed earlier about the UK's lack of 100+ episode dramas for people to get stuck into forever.
The competition internationally is Netflix. Massive shows like Friends get syndicated into foreign markets then dubbed by local actors into the local language. What the international students really like is good subtitles on original English audio.
I thought with Netflix you could choose the audio track if it was dubbed? So you can choose the dubbed version or choose the original?
In most cases yes you can with Netflix. They’re also really good at subtitles.
So if the BBC can pitch their product in China and elsewhere for less than Netflix, they’ll have a huge market and potentially hundreds of millions of pounds in revenue - from a back catalogue that’s costing them nothing to produce.
I've got a great idea. Let's allow people to be nominated for the citizen's assembly (you have to collect a number of signatures from your local area), then let the people of that local area gather together to freely vote on who represents them from those nominees. Those elected can have the significant decision making power in a citizen's assembly, or "council".
Those who want citizens assemblies know exactly what they are doing and know their agenda is not widely supported. But those that do support it are the type of people who 'participate' in this kind of thing.
I was at a pre election hustings. The ukip candidate was getting heckled, she stopped and asked who voted to leave in the audience, of about a hundred, two raised their arms. The constituency was 60% leave, the conservative MP, who was also heckled and booed by the audience won the seat by more than 8,000.
These are the people who will make sure only the right sort participate in a citizens assembly.
The descent of the Labour leadership contest into a massive fight between the feminists and the trans rights activists will be fantastic to watch - from 3,500 miles away!
One of the items on the pledge RLB and others have signed up to is "Accept that there is no material conflict between trans rights and women's rights." - no reasonable adult could look at what is going on in women's prisons and athletics and agree with that. This is cult-like.
I've got a great idea. Let's allow people to be nominated for the citizen's assembly (you have to collect a number of signatures from your local area), then let the people of that local area gather together to freely vote on who represents them from those nominees. Those elected can have the significant decision making power in a citizen's assembly, or "council".
Those who want citizens assemblies know exactly what they are doing and know their agenda is not widely supported. But those that do support it are the type of people who 'participate' in this kind of thing.
I was at a pre election hustings. The ukip candidate was getting heckled, she stopped and asked who voted to leave in the audience, of about a hundred, two raised their arms. The constituency was 60% leave, the conservative MP, who was also heckled and booed by the audience won the seat by more than 8,000.
These are the people who will make sure only the right sort participate in a citizens assembly.
@mwadams was, I'm 99.9999% sure, making a joke. His "citizens assembly" is local council.
The descent of the Labour leadership contest into a massive fight between the feminists and the trans rights activists will be fantastic to watch - from 3,500 miles away!
my other half who is a labour member is most agitated about what is happening...
I've got a great idea. Let's allow people to be nominated for the citizen's assembly (you have to collect a number of signatures from your local area), then let the people of that local area gather together to freely vote on who represents them from those nominees. Those elected can have the significant decision making power in a citizen's assembly, or "council".
Those who want citizens assemblies know exactly what they are doing and know their agenda is not widely supported. But those that do support it are the type of people who 'participate' in this kind of thing.
I was at a pre election hustings. The ukip candidate was getting heckled, she stopped and asked who voted to leave in the audience, of about a hundred, two raised their arms. The constituency was 60% leave, the conservative MP, who was also heckled and booed by the audience won the seat by more than 8,000.
These are the people who will make sure only the right sort participate in a citizens assembly.
@mwadams was, I'm 99.9999% sure, making a joke. His "citizens assembly" is local council.
I'm sure that you've already seen @MaxPB but the Chinese GP has been officially postponed - and comments already about struggling to put it somewhere else.
The reason they’re saying ‘postponed’ is because neither the local promoter nor F1 can be allowed to be the person cancelling the event - a very large race fee paid by the former to the latter depends on this. The logistics of the modern F1 season make it very unlikely that the race can be rescheduled, so what will happen is that the teams will refuse to agree to a rescheduled date, and the promoter and F1 will split the difference on the race fee.
They are saying the inaugural Vietnam GP might be postponed too.
Plus there's the olympics this year...
Yep, Vietnam must be close to being cancelled also. It’s a street circuit right in the middle of Hanoi, there’s no way they’re going to want 50,000 international visitors. The teams also might not want to travel, but in the absence of eg Foreign Office advice not to go there, they will have no choice about it.
The Tokyo Olympic Committee must be checking their insurance policy very carefully right now - a future pub quiz question could be about why the 2020 Summer Games took place in 2021.
One of the items on the pledge RLB and others have signed up to is "Accept that there is no material conflict between trans rights and women's rights." - no reasonable adult could look at what is going on in women's prisons and athletics and agree with that. This is cult-like.
Key word is bolded.
And I would suggest that there is something of a Cult about the frenzy of opposition to "Trans Rights".
The descent of the Labour leadership contest into a massive fight between the feminists and the trans rights activists will be fantastic to watch - from 3,500 miles away!
my other half who is a labour member is most agitated about what is happening...
I've got a great idea. Let's allow people to be nominated for the citizen's assembly (you have to collect a number of signatures from your local area), then let the people of that local area gather together to freely vote on who represents them from those nominees. Those elected can have the significant decision making power in a citizen's assembly, or "council".
Those who want citizens assemblies know exactly what they are doing and know their agenda is not widely supported. But those that do support it are the type of people who 'participate' in this kind of thing.
I was at a pre election hustings. The ukip candidate was getting heckled, she stopped and asked who voted to leave in the audience, of about a hundred, two raised their arms. The constituency was 60% leave, the conservative MP, who was also heckled and booed by the audience won the seat by more than 8,000.
These are the people who will make sure only the right sort participate in a citizens assembly.
@mwadams was, I'm 99.9999% sure, making a joke. His "citizens assembly" is local council.
Similar experience at an election hustings in a constituency with an 18000 Tory majority! Dominated by activists and shroud wavers each with an anecdote about the sheer wickedness of the Tories.
It is curious how to certain activists the one citizens assembly they want to sideline is the one we have all got a vote for.
One of the items on the pledge RLB and others have signed up to is "Accept that there is no material conflict between trans rights and women's rights." - no reasonable adult could look at what is going on in women's prisons and athletics and agree with that. This is cult-like.
Key word is bolded.
And I would suggest that there is something of a Cult about the frenzy of opposition to "Trans Rights".
A woman being excluded from a winners' podium or sexually assaulted in prison is material in my book.
I'm not opposed to trans rights, though it's not clear which rights trans people are being denied. I most certainly am opposed to biological sex being erased as a real and legally important concept.
The descent of the Labour leadership contest into a massive fight between the feminists and the trans rights activists will be fantastic to watch - from 3,500 miles away!
One of the items on the pledge RLB and others have signed up to is "Accept that there is no material conflict between trans rights and women's rights." - no reasonable adult could look at what is going on in women's prisons and athletics and agree with that. This is cult-like.
The descent of the Labour leadership contest into a massive fight between the feminists and the trans rights activists will be fantastic to watch - from 3,500 miles away!
One of the items on the pledge RLB and others have signed up to is "Accept that there is no material conflict between trans rights and women's rights." - no reasonable adult could look at what is going on in women's prisons and athletics and agree with that. This is cult-like.
Quite.
The key phrase is "no reasonable adult".
It's good also that Woman's Place UK is learning from and has pinched an attack line from the Labour Party:
"Bailey [of Woman's Place UK] has also warned of the dangers posed by the “international, all-powerful, wealthy & totally out of control trans lobby”.
If it didn't exist, would we set it up now? What function would we want it to fulfil?
Yes, that's a good technique. I like to pose that one with private schools.
But with the BBC. Yes, IMO we would not only want to, we would feel an urgent need to.
Mandate? A quick starter for ten -
News and current affairs with a charter of impartiality as to political party. Drama and documentary with focus on 'made here'. Low cost light entertainment (e.g. soaps and gameshows). Portfolio of nationally important sporting events (e.g. World Cup). Portfolio of nationally important cultural events (e.g. Glasto and the Proms).
Hm. 1) Yes, ideally. But the BBC aren't particularly giod at impartial. That said, we will miss 'trying but failing to be impartial' when we're only left with 'not even trying'. 2) Disagree. ITV can do that just as well. In the absence of the BBC other providers will. 3) Disagree. Like abive, only more so. 4) Perhaps. Or again, oerhaps other free-to-air providers can do it. Whispee it, but BBC sport on the telly isn't that good any more. Arguably, ITV is now better. Though England will never win a football match again inan International tournament if ITV are left to televise it. And the BBC still have the best sporting theme tunes. And I would miss Test Match Special. 5) As above, with fewer redeeming features.
Not sure this adds up to an argument for the BBC's continued existence.
One of the items on the pledge RLB and others have signed up to is "Accept that there is no material conflict between trans rights and women's rights." - no reasonable adult could look at what is going on in women's prisons and athletics and agree with that. This is cult-like.
Key word is bolded.
And I would suggest that there is something of a Cult about the frenzy of opposition to "Trans Rights".
A woman being excluded from a winners' podium or sexually assaulted in prison is material in my book.
I'm not opposed to trans rights, though it's not clear which rights trans people are being denied. I most certainly am opposed to biological sex being erased as a real and legally important concept.
How many women in prison need to have been raped by the penis of a follow ‘woman’ in prison with them, before it becomes necessary to separate ‘women’ from women who are there involuntarily?
There’s a decade of work for human rights lawyers coming up on this issue. At least one of the prison rapists was inside for a rape committed when they identified as male.
A woman being excluded from a winners' podium or sexually assaulted in prison is material in my book.
I'm not opposed to trans rights, though it's not clear which rights trans people are being denied. I most certainly am opposed to biological sex being erased as a real and legally important concept.
What I mean is, it's clear that safeguards are required in certain areas - e.g. to protect the integrity of women's sport - but this does not mean that the statement being floated that "there is no material conflict between women's rights and trans rights" is obviously false.
IMO a reasonable adult could either object or sign up to it, depending on their attitude to the matter.
One of the items on the pledge RLB and others have signed up to is "Accept that there is no material conflict between trans rights and women's rights." - no reasonable adult could look at what is going on in women's prisons and athletics and agree with that. This is cult-like.
Key word is bolded.
And I would suggest that there is something of a Cult about the frenzy of opposition to "Trans Rights".
There shouldn't be, in principle. But anyone who supports self-ID is necessarily inviting a material conflict. Because it makes it physically impossible to monitor progress against almost all issues that feminists care about.
Take Board representation, for example. How do you determine the percentage of FTSE 350 Board members who are female, when companies can claim it changes from day to day? What happens to the law that companies have to report on gender pay gaps, when companies start claiming that they've discussed the issue with their Diversity committee, and they now on principle do not hold data on their employee's gender identity?
I've got a great idea. Let's allow people to be nominated for the citizen's assembly (you have to collect a number of signatures from your local area), then let the people of that local area gather together to freely vote on who represents them from those nominees. Those elected can have the significant decision making power in a citizen's assembly, or "council".
Those who want citizens assemblies know exactly what they are doing and know their agenda is not widely supported. But those that do support it are the type of people who 'participate' in this kind of thing.
I was at a pre election hustings. The ukip candidate was getting heckled, she stopped and asked who voted to leave in the audience, of about a hundred, two raised their arms. The constituency was 60% leave, the conservative MP, who was also heckled and booed by the audience won the seat by more than 8,000.
These are the people who will make sure only the right sort participate in a citizens assembly.
"The invitees to Climate Assembly UK have been selected at random from across the UK. From those who respond, 110 people will be chosen as a representative sample of the population." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50264797
But that doesn't mean that you could be right, maybe there is a conspiracy.
I've got a great idea. Let's allow people to be nominated for the citizen's assembly (you have to collect a number of signatures from your local area), then let the people of that local area gather together to freely vote on who represents them from those nominees. Those elected can have the significant decision making power in a citizen's assembly, or "council".
Those who want citizens assemblies know exactly what they are doing and know their agenda is not widely supported. But those that do support it are the type of people who 'participate' in this kind of thing.
I was at a pre election hustings. The ukip candidate was getting heckled, she stopped and asked who voted to leave in the audience, of about a hundred, two raised their arms. The constituency was 60% leave, the conservative MP, who was also heckled and booed by the audience won the seat by more than 8,000.
These are the people who will make sure only the right sort participate in a citizens assembly.
"The invitees to Climate Assembly UK have been selected at random from across the UK. From those who respond, 110 people will be chosen as a representative sample of the population." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50264797
But that doesn't mean that you could be right, maybe there is a conspiracy.
Nope. Either it’s selected in the same way as jury service, or it’s elected as it is at the moment.
As soon a you select from ‘those who respond’, you select from that group of those who respond - which going to be a very heavily weighted sample of the population indeed.
I'm sure that you've already seen @MaxPB but the Chinese GP has been officially postponed - and comments already about struggling to put it somewhere else.
The reason they’re saying ‘postponed’ is because neither the local promoter nor F1 can be allowed to be the person cancelling the event - a very large race fee paid by the former to the latter depends on this. The logistics of the modern F1 season make it very unlikely that the race can be rescheduled, so what will happen is that the teams will refuse to agree to a rescheduled date, and the promoter and F1 will split the difference on the race fee.
They are saying the inaugural Vietnam GP might be postponed too.
Plus there's the olympics this year...
Yep, Vietnam must be close to being cancelled also. It’s a street circuit right in the middle of Hanoi, there’s no way they’re going to want 50,000 international visitors. The teams also might not want to travel, but in the absence of eg Foreign Office advice not to go there, they will have no choice about it.
The Tokyo Olympic Committee must be checking their insurance policy very carefully right now - a future pub quiz question could be about why the 2020 Summer Games took place in 2021.
Tokyo is as far from Wuhan as London is from Moscow, so unless there is much wider spread by then, the Olympics can probably go ahead but when must decisions be made?
Comments
Local elections are local, and are open to those living in the locality, without a qualification by citezenship.
Internationally it would be unusual to open your National elections to visitors, be they here for 3 months or 3 years plus. If they want to vote, become a citizen.
Including in the Commonwealth Games too. Scotland competes separately from England in the Commonwealth Games.
But given the regular abject failure of the Scottish sporting teams I'll forgive your ignorance in not realising it but Scotland even has its own football team - believe it or not!
Can we have a snippet?
But again, this is not an important issue.
The Commonwealth has nations of all sorts of shapes and sizes competing. The UK would be far too dominant if it competed as one so it’s quite right it’s broken down by territory.
*Not to say that this isn't exactly the type of meaningless bollox that BJ and his crew would fly a kite for.
Stormont having devolved differences is their local decision within the union.
The EU has no equivalent unless you wish to ignore Europe and view the whole globe and have the Olympics - but if you wish to embrace the whole globe and not just Europe then welcome to my world.
global warmingCommunist coup news:https://twitter.com/MattBirdLabour/status/1227500281589465088
They’re not a ready pool of reserve voters for Labour.
Good weaselling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:European_international_sports_competitions
Probably caused by all the cyclists.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/sanders-is-the-front-runner-after-new-hampshire-and-a-contested-convention-has-become-more-likely/
The Democratic primary is in a confusing state at the moment. And our forecast model is a little confused, also. There are a couple of assumptions it’s making about how the polls may react to New Hampshire that may not be entirely right....
What luck.
but: I Believe in freedom of the individuate, freedom of association, freedom of speech, freedom to love, freedom to contract, freedom to trade, freedom to move, freedom of religion, freedom to innovate, and and so on.
and against, imitation of force, and supposed calls to sacrifice for the 'common good' as described by somebody else.
but this is about the BBC not me, if I did brake the law and watched some live ITV and was cout, would you see it as a good use of your tax money to put me in to prison for not paying the BBC for the privilege of watching there competitor.
But with the BBC. Yes, IMO we would not only want to, we would feel an urgent need to.
Mandate? A quick starter for ten -
News and current affairs with a charter of impartiality as to political party.
Drama and documentary with focus on 'made here'.
Low cost light entertainment (e.g. soaps and gameshows).
Portfolio of nationally important sporting events (e.g. World Cup).
Portfolio of nationally important cultural events (e.g. Glasto and the Proms).
They might have to block out Top Gear, the occasional headline drama and live sport in some markets, but there’s hundreds of thousands of retired people and expat wives who really like to watch Eastenders and the daytime crap - and currently resort to paying for ‘other’ ways of doing this.
What are the viewing figures?
Edit: I see you said "except for the football". Slightly Mrs Lincoln tbh.
Admittedly, those figures are probably well out of date, and in practice his support is probably substantially less than those figures. If so, or if he withdraws, they represent a useful chunk of support which will go elsewhere, and could be significant.
I guess the question that arises, though, is if we pare it back to the absolute essentials - and agree that these are essentials - why isn't it funded out of direct taxation, rather than an enforced-with-menaces licence fee?
The Commonwealth Games is comparable to the Olympics, the "European Games" are not.
(13 years from horses to cars)
Also note that 'Petrol and Diesel Cars Sales Ban could start in 12 Years'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51474769
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y916mxoio0E&feature=youtu.be
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.128151441
Anyway, so if I was to say "freedom" is the watchword, I think I'm getting warm.
But couple of questions -
What about the freedom to bear arms?
What about a police force? And an army? And a legal system. Courts? Prisons?
Why do you worry only about oppression by the state when there are so many other ways in which an individual can be oppressed?
For example, anarcho-capitalist, = no state, what's to stop the whole place ending up being ruled by a bunch of ruthless mobsters and everyone else getting screwed to the wall?
Also, the tens of millions of English language students who would quite happily watch ‘Are you being served?’ repeats all day.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/02/12/after_new_hampshire_bloomberg_machine_sees_an_open_road.html
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1227567110429323266
(And I'm one of the layers)
No comment!
And, look, what on earth do you mean, the best of MY aspirations? I'm not targeting the Commonwealth OR the European championships, let alone the Olympics. Those days are long behind me.
Plus there's the olympics this year...
So if the BBC can pitch their product in China and elsewhere for less than Netflix, they’ll have a huge market and potentially hundreds of millions of pounds in revenue - from a back catalogue that’s costing them nothing to produce.
I was at a pre election hustings. The ukip candidate was getting heckled, she stopped and asked who voted to leave in the audience, of about a hundred, two raised their arms. The constituency was 60% leave, the conservative MP, who was also heckled and booed by the audience won the seat by more than 8,000.
These are the people who will make sure only the right sort participate in a citizens assembly.
The Tokyo Olympic Committee must be checking their insurance policy very carefully right now - a future pub quiz question could be about why the 2020 Summer Games took place in 2021.
And I would suggest that there is something of a Cult about the frenzy of opposition to "Trans Rights".
Bloomberg is, of course, helped by Sanders/Warren calling their moderate opponents the tools of billionaires.
FWIW, I slightly increased my lay today.
It is curious how to certain activists the one citizens assembly they want to sideline is the one we have all got a vote for.
I'm not opposed to trans rights, though it's not clear which rights trans people are being denied. I most certainly am opposed to biological sex being erased as a real and legally important concept.
The key phrase is "no reasonable adult".
"Bailey [of Woman's Place UK] has also warned of the dangers posed by the “international, all-powerful, wealthy & totally out of control trans lobby”.
1) Yes, ideally. But the BBC aren't particularly giod at impartial. That said, we will miss 'trying but failing to be impartial' when we're only left with 'not even trying'.
2) Disagree. ITV can do that just as well. In the absence of the BBC other providers will.
3) Disagree. Like abive, only more so.
4) Perhaps. Or again, oerhaps other free-to-air providers can do it. Whispee it, but BBC sport on the telly isn't that good any more. Arguably, ITV is now better. Though England will never win a football match again inan International tournament if ITV are left to televise it. And the BBC still have the best sporting theme tunes. And I would miss Test Match Special.
5) As above, with fewer redeeming features.
Not sure this adds up to an argument for the BBC's continued existence.
There’s a decade of work for human rights lawyers coming up on this issue. At least one of the prison rapists was inside for a rape committed when they identified as male.
IMO a reasonable adult could either object or sign up to it, depending on their attitude to the matter.
Take Board representation, for example. How do you determine the percentage of FTSE 350 Board members who are female, when companies can claim it changes from day to day? What happens to the law that companies have to report on gender pay gaps, when companies start claiming that they've discussed the issue with their Diversity committee, and they now on principle do not hold data on their employee's gender identity?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50264797
But that doesn't mean that you could be right, maybe there is a conspiracy.
As soon a you select from ‘those who respond’, you select from that group of those who respond - which going to be a very heavily weighted sample of the population indeed.