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Comments

  • eek said:



    I think the announced ban is the incentive for automobile manufacturers. It's just about 2 car generations which will give them enough time to invest in what they need to do.

    And yep I suspect it will be 25+ years before we stop seeing petrol and diesel cars on the road.

    Fair point. As I say, personally I favour nudge approaches to behavioural change, but giving car companies 15 more years to develop on a technology that already exists doesn't seem the most unreasonable approach.
    Presumably there will still be massive markets for petrol driven cars too. Are the Americans or Chinese banning them?
    Be great to be one of their citizens.......having a choice...
    China to ban production of petrol and diesel cars 'in the near future'

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/11/china-to-ban-production-of-petrol-and-diesel-cars-in-the-near-future

    Beginning March 1st 2019 in the Hainan province of China, internal combustion engine vehicles (ICEs) will no longer be sold. The ban, which includes both petrol and diesel cars, will be the first of its kind in China. Hainan, with a population of more than 9 million residents, aims to entirely eliminate ICEs in the province by 2030 and is rapidly installing EV charging infrastructure in service of its objective.

    https://www.thefuturescentre.org/signals-of-change/222351/diesel-and-petrol-cars-will-no-longer-be-sold-hainan-province-china
  • England will never win anything unless they learn how to bat on slow pitches.

    Fixed for you...
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited February 2020
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    eek said:



    I think the announced ban is the incentive for automobile manufacturers. It's just about 2 car generations which will give them enough time to invest in what they need to do.

    And yep I suspect it will be 25+ years before we stop seeing petrol and diesel cars on the road.

    Fair point. As I say, personally I favour nudge approaches to behavioural change, but giving car companies 15 more years to develop on a technology that already exists doesn't seem the most unreasonable approach.
    Presumably there will still be massive markets for petrol driven cars too. Are the Americans or Chinese banning them?
    Chinese have said they will ban them, but haven't put a hard date. But they are already big into electric. In the big cities, increasingly all buses are.
    The gaps between green world and blunder on world are set to widen, it seems.

    The relative performances of both will be of course noted by their citizens.
  • Trump surprising has something to say about the giant balls up by the DNC...

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1224657196392370177?s=20
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    I wonder how the many thousands in the car industry in marginal seats are thinking today after Boris Johnson brought forward a ban on the products that pay their salaries.

    We are totally decimating one of your major industries, but don;t worry a hugely expensive railway is coming in fifteen years time.

    ... he will have almost certainly caused panic in Germany...
    Be honest. If I monitor German newspapers over the coming year, will I see any evidence of this panic over and above any panic that already exists?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    theProle said:

    I wonder how the many thousands in the car industry in marginal seats are thinking today after Boris Johnson brought forward a ban on the products that pay their salaries.

    We are totally decimating one of your major industries, but don;t worry a hugely expensive railway is coming in fifteen years time.

    I didn't realize Boris was going to ban electric cars...
    Electric cars are still a tiny fraction of the car market. Tiny.
    They won't be in 15 years. Nissan for instance is already busy moving over e.g. this years version one of their core models the Qashqai, made in Sunderland, will no longer be made with a diesel engine, they will offer hybrid. Give it 5-10 years and it will be electric only.

    15 years is plenty of time to transition away from tradition engines, given that most producers have investing in doing so for years now.
    Except electric tech doesn't even nearly begin to work for some users. I put my usage patterns into an EV calculator recently, and it told me that there was nothing on the market that was suitable. If they were insisting on hybrid tech, that might be sensible, but pure EVs are so far off being able to match some ICE useage patterns it's madness.

    That's before looking at the requirements for my employer's business for a light pickup truck, 1.5T capacity, would need 1000 mile range - and we are the people who literally keep you supplied with life's essentials (in our case, mostly water).

    They are also really going to screw the poor. When I was fairly impoverished I invested £300 in a 17 year old diesel Skoda. Apart from being old and scruffy it was basically as good as a new car to use - it started, drove me were I wanted, managed to get the right side of 50mpg. Buying a old Nissan Leaf will probably mean a range that doesn't get you 20 miles. Which in turn will make the residuals really poor, which will do over new buyers too.
    I think you underestimate the rate of battery development. What's your car budget, and what range do you need ?

    The Tesla pickup coming out at the end of this year will be available with a 500 mile range - and that is now; fifteen years is quite a long time.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Is there a sense yet of whether the problem is likely to be contained to Iowa, or if it would affect more states?

    Or in other words, is the app: (a) Iowa specific, (b) caucus specific or (c) intended to be used across the board.

    If it's (a) (and probably even if it's (b)) then this will have been almost entirely forgotten by Super Tuesday. If it's (c), and the New Hampshire primary is another car crash, then it starts to put a real dent into the credibility of whichever Democrat ends up with the nomination.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    .
    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and atn Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.

    By official control, I meant the Muslims being in control not being controlled, apologies if that wasn't clear, although though I think it should have been; "they have some sort of official control" meant them having the control
    I know it annoyed you. That's why I used it.

    Because for all the world that paragraph sounded like you were advocating external ie British state control of Muslims.

    If you are saying that the Muslim community should do more to identify and prevent radicals, assuming such a thing is possible, I disagree much less.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    I wonder how the many thousands in the car industry in marginal seats are thinking today after Boris Johnson brought forward a ban on the products that pay their salaries.

    We are totally decimating one of your major industries, but don;t worry a hugely expensive railway is coming in fifteen years time.

    I didn't realize Boris was going to ban electric cars...
    Electric cars are still a tiny fraction of the car market. Tiny.
    They won't be in 15 years. Nissan for instance is already busy moving over e.g. this years version one of their core models the Qashqai, made in Sunderland, will no longer be made with a diesel engine, they will offer hybrid. Give it 5-10 years and it will be electric only.

    15 years is plenty of time to transition away from tradition engines, given that most producers have investing in doing so for years now.
    Except electric tech doesn't even nearly begin to work for some users. I put my usage patterns into an EV calculator recently, and it told me that there was nothing on the market that was suitable. If they were insisting on hybrid tech, that might be sensible, but pure EVs are so far off being able to match some ICE useage patterns it's madness.

    That's before looking at the requirements for my employer's business for a light pickup truck, 1.5T capacity, would need 1000 mile range - and we are the people who literally keep you supplied with life's essentials (in our case, mostly water).

    They are also really going to screw the poor. When I was fairly impoverished I invested £300 in a 17 year old diesel Skoda. Apart from being old and scruffy it was basically as good as a new car to use - it started, drove me were I wanted, managed to get the right side of 50mpg. Buying a old Nissan Leaf will probably mean a range that doesn't get you 20 miles. Which in turn will make the residuals really poor, which will do over new buyers too.
    I think you underestimate the rate of battery development. What's your car budget, and what range do you need ?

    The Tesla pickup coming out at the end of this year will be available with a 500 mile range - and that is now; fifteen years is quite a long time.
    You are asking someone who works in business to wait a year for a car?

    Its a bit like soviet Russia...
  • isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Locking up people works.

    It is releasing people that doesn't.

    A "libertarian" speaks. 👀
    Conservative/libertarian hybrid - a lot of them about...
    Delingpole syndrome. Conservative/libertarian hybrids seek to impose laws on people they don't like and remove laws from people they do like. It's not a principled stance.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TOPPING said:

    .

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and atn Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."


    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.

    By official control, I meant the Muslims being in control not being controlled, apologies if that wasn't clear, although though I think it should have been; "they have some sort of official control" meant them having the control
    I know it annoyed you. That's why I used it.

    Because for all the world that paragraph sounded like you were advocating external ie British state control of Muslims.

    If you are saying that the Muslim community should do more to identify and prevent radicals, assuming such a thing is possible, I disagree much less.
    You misunderstood something I wrote and mistakenly went on the front foot. It will take a while for you to concede the point, I wont expect an apology.

    What I am saying is the cure for Islamic extremism will be for the UK to be come more Islamified in culture, law and political representation. Then we will see more right wing extremism
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited February 2020
    Are motorcycle also electric only after 2030? Harley-Davidson are the only OEM with a viable mass market product at the moment. Those are going to fly out of the dealers even at 29k each.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2020

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Addressing someone you are disagreeing with in an insincerely friendly way is a tell tale sign of a complete prat. A lot of it about!
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Addressing someone you are disagreeing with in an insincerely friendly way is a tell tale sign of a complete prat. A lot of it about!
    "Me old mucker"??
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    I'm slightly surprised that Biden is odds on in the Iowa betting. From my casual analysis, it looks like the strong Warren performance is going to deny him the second preferences that he needs for victory.

    I think Buttigieg gets this on the basis that he takes far more Klobuchar second places than Sanders.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    isam said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Addressing someone you are disagreeing with in an insincerely friendly way is a tell tale sign of a complete prat. A lot of it about!
    Quite right, my old chuffer.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Addressing someone you are disagreeing with in an insincerely friendly way is a tell tale sign of a complete prat. A lot of it about!
    "Me old mucker"??
    Only Basil Fawlty can get away with that
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    .

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:



    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.

    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.

    By official control, I meant the Muslims being in control not being controlled, apologies if that wasn't clear, although though I think it should have been; "they have some sort of official control" meant them having the control
    I know it annoyed you. That's why I used it.

    Because for all the world that paragraph sounded like you were advocating external ie British state control of Muslims.

    If you are saying that the Muslim community should do more to identify and prevent radicals, assuming such a thing is possible, I disagree much less.
    You misunderstood something I wrote and mistakenly went on the front foot. It will take a while for you to concede the point, I wont expect an apology.

    What I am saying is the cure for Islamic extremism will be for the UK to be come more Islamified in culture, law and political representation. Then we will see more right wing extremism
    Depending on exactly what you mean by "Islamified in culture", I think it's much more likely that it's the Left that reacts, than the Right.

    The Far Right and conservative elements of Islam agree on rather more than the former group would like to admit.
  • England will never win anything unless they learn how to bat on slow pitches.

    Yes that's correct, all over rated and over hyped.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited February 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm slightly surprised that Biden is odds on in the Iowa betting. From my casual analysis, it looks like the strong Warren performance is going to deny him the second preferences that he needs for victory.

    I think Buttigieg gets this on the basis that he takes far more Klobuchar second places than Sanders.

    Ah you`re back! Been waiting for you to post.

    Biden odds-on? Did you mean Sanders?
  • Stocky said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm slightly surprised that Biden is odds on in the Iowa betting. From my casual analysis, it looks like the strong Warren performance is going to deny him the second preferences that he needs for victory.

    I think Buttigieg gets this on the basis that he takes far more Klobuchar second places than Sanders.

    Ahm you`re back! Been waiting for you to post.

    Biden odds-on? Did you mean Sanders?
    Biden has had a shit night by sound of things.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Addressing someone you are disagreeing with in an insincerely friendly way is a tell tale sign of a complete prat. A lot of it about!
    Tbh if someone addresses you as pal in Glasgow I'd automatically assume it's unfriendly.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Endillion said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    .

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:



    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.

    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.

    By official control, I meant the Muslims being in control not being controlled, apologies if that wasn't clear, although though I think it should have been; "they have some sort of official control" meant them having the control
    I know it annoyed you. That's why I used it.

    Because for all the world that paragraph sounded like you were advocating external ie British state control of Muslims.

    If you are saying that the Muslim community should do more to identify and prevent radicals, assuming such a thing is possible, I disagree much less.
    You misunderstood something I wrote and mistakenly went on the front foot. It will take a while for you to concede the point, I wont expect an apology.

    What I am saying is the cure for Islamic extremism will be for the UK to be come more Islamified in culture, law and political representation. Then we will see more right wing extremism
    Depending on exactly what you mean by "Islamified in culture", I think it's much more likely that it's the Left that reacts, than the Right.

    The Far Right and conservative elements of Islam agree on rather more than the former group would like to admit.
    Good point.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    .

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and atn Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a thir."


    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.

    By official control, I meant the Muslims being in control not being controlled, apologies if that wasn't clear, although though I think it should have been; "they have some sort of official control" meant them having the control
    I know it annoyed you. That's why I used it.

    Because for all the world that paragraph sounded like you were advocating external ie British state control of Muslims.

    If you are saying that the Muslim community should do more to identify and prevent radicals, assuming such a thing is possible, I disagree much less.
    You misunderstood something I wrote and mistakenly went on the front foot. It will take a while for you to concede the point, I wont expect an apology.

    What I am saying is the cure for Islamic extremism will be for the UK to be come more Islamified in culture, law and political representation. Then we will see more right wing extremism
    What you wrote as it stands, without your "clarification", was open to a simple, ie my interpretation.

    As to your cure, assuming you're serious, I'm not sure how that would play out in practice.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    viewcode said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Locking up people works.

    It is releasing people that doesn't.

    A "libertarian" speaks. 👀
    Conservative/libertarian hybrid - a lot of them about...
    Delingpole syndrome. Conservative/libertarian hybrids seek to impose laws on people they don't like and remove laws from people they do like. It's not a principled stance.

    Well - I think it`s principled - though, as philosophers point out, no ideology is internally coherent when you take a look under the bonnet.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    isam said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:



    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.

    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Addressing someone you are disagreeing with in an insincerely friendly way is a tell tale sign of a complete prat. A lot of it about!
    Tbh if someone addresses you as pal in Glasgow I'd automatically assume it's unfriendly.
    To be even honester, if somebody addresses you as anything in Glasgow, it's safe to assume it's unfriendly... :)

    Ah, my coat. So kind
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patroesemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Addressing someone you are disagreeing with in an insincerely friendly way is a tell tale sign of a complete prat. A lot of it about!
    Tbh if someone addresses you as pal in Glasgow I'd automatically assume it's unfriendly.
    On one of my Scotrail expeditions last year, I swear I remember the conductor asking me "Can I see your ticket, please, pal?" He seemed friendly enough.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Surely, no-one can take offence at "mi duck"?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Surely, no-one can take offence at "mi duck"?
    You know Leicestershire then!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Come on rcs1000 - where are you? - still wiping the sleepy dust from your eyes?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    edited February 2020

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Surely, no-one can take offence at "mi duck"?
    It's "my lover" that messes with my head. Although I was once addressed as "my wee loon" by a Scots lass, and to this day I have no idea what she meant.
  • isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Surely, no-one can take offence at "mi duck"?
    As a callow, innocent, seventeen year old, on his first visit to the South West, I was shocked when a local waitresses/barmaids address me 'Alright my lover'.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    .

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and atn Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a thir."


    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    k
    t
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.

    By official control, I meant the Muslims being in control not being controlled, apologies if that wasn't clear, although though I think it should have been; "they have some sort of official control" meant them having the control
    I know it annoyed you. That's why I used it.

    Because for all the world that paragraph sounded like you were advocating external ie British state control of Muslims.

    If you are saying that the Muslim community should do more to identify and prevent radicals, assuming such a thing is possible, I disagree much less.
    You misunderstood something I wrote and mistakenly went on the front foot. It will take a while for you to concede the point, I wont expect an apology.

    What I am saying is the cure for Islamic extremism will be for the UK to be come more Islamified in culture, law and political representation. Then we will see more right wing extremism
    What you wrote as it stands, without your "clarification", was open to a simple, ie my interpretation.

    As to your cure, assuming you're serious, I'm not sure how that would play out in practice.
    Yes, I am serious, that is the only way it can be stopped, by giving in or being defeated. It will play out as a whole lot of aggro, but why would it not progress in that direction from here? At the turn of the century, Islamic terrorism in the UK was unheard of. Now it is part and parcel of living in a major city. Why would it go back to how it was?
  • In Manchester be called a 'c*nt' is seen as a term of endearment.

    Call someone 'mate' and a fight ensues.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited February 2020
    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Surely, no-one can take offence at "mi duck"?
    It's "my lover" that messes with my head. Although I was once addressed as "my wee loon" by a Scots lass, and to this day I have no idea what she meant.
    "Loon" can mean "lout", "boy" or "simpleton". Take your pick.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Surely, no-one can take offence at "mi duck"?
    As a callow, innocent, seventeen year old, on his first visit to the South West, I was shocked when a local waitresses/barmaids address me 'Alright my lover'.
    I was called "my handsome" by a rather gruff Cornishman when ordering a pint once. Caused a double take.
  • theProle said:

    I wonder how the many thousands in the car industry in marginal seats are thinking today after Boris Johnson brought forward a ban on the products that pay their salaries.

    We are totally decimating one of your major industries, but don;t worry a hugely expensive railway is coming in fifteen years time.

    I didn't realize Boris was going to ban electric cars...
    Electric cars are still a tiny fraction of the car market. Tiny.
    Give it 5-10 years and it will be electric only.

    15 years is plenty of time to transition away from tradition engines, given that most producers have investing in doing so for years now.
    Except electric tech doesn't even nearly begin to work for some users. I put my usage patterns into an EV calculator recently, and it told me that there was nothing on the market that was suitable. If they were insisting on hybrid tech, that might be sensible, but pure EVs are so far off being able to match some ICE useage patterns it's madness.

    That's before looking at the requirements for my employer's business for a light pickup truck, 1.5T capacity, would need 1000 mile range - and we are the people who literally keep you supplied with life's essentials (in our case, mostly water).

    They are also really going to screw the poor. When I was fairly impoverished I invested £300 in a 17 year old diesel Skoda. Apart from being old and scruffy it was basically as good as a new car to use - it started, drove me were I wanted, managed to get the right side of 50mpg. Buying a old Nissan Leaf will probably mean a range that doesn't get you 20 miles. Which in turn will make the residuals really poor, which will do over new buyers too.
    I'm driving a ten year old diesel and looking to get a new car at some stage. I also put my requirements into maybe the same EV calculator. It also said that I'd be better off not getting electric. It was run by a car company (VW I think) that makes much more money selling fossil fuel cars, of course.
    I'm going to get an electric car anyway, not an old Leaf, but maybe a newer one or an ID.3, a Kona/Niro or one of the many new ones coming out this year. I'd like a Tesla Model 3 but I've never spent that sort of money on a car. So, I'll probably keep my DS3 going for another 6 months or a year by which time there will be more choice at a cheaper level.
    I think that the drop in new car sales may have at least something to do with people like me waiting. Buying an expensive fossil fuel car nowadays just doesn't appeal.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Gabs3 said:

    I was called "my handsome" by a rather gruff Cornishman when ordering a pint once. Caused a double take.

    "ansum", surely?

    The lady at the pet shop calls me "my loverrrrrrrrr........"
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.

    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad

    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?

    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.

    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:

    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."

    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Surely, no-one can take offence at "mi duck"?
    You know Leicestershire then!
    ....and Notts, Derbyshire through Staffs......
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    In Manchester be called a 'c*nt' is seen as a term of endearment.

    Call someone 'mate' and a fight ensues.

    I recall an incident when a LibDem (Paddy Ashdown?) called out to a bloke in Liverpool, "Hello, friend!" The reply came back, "I'm not yer fooking friend."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    edited February 2020

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    I wonder how the many thousands in the car industry in marginal seats are thinking today after Boris Johnson brought forward a ban on the products that pay their salaries.

    We are totally decimating one of your major industries, but don;t worry a hugely expensive railway is coming in fifteen years time.

    I didn't realize Boris was going to ban electric cars...
    Electric cars are still a tiny fraction of the car market. Tiny.
    They won't be in 15 years. Nissan for instance is already busy moving over e.g. this years version one of their core models the Qashqai, made in Sunderland, will no longer be made with a diesel engine, they will offer hybrid. Give it 5-10 years and it will be electric only.

    15 years is plenty of time to transition away from tradition engines, given that most producers have investing in doing so for years now.
    Except electric tech doesn't even nearly begin to work for some users. I put my usage patterns into an EV calculator recently, and it told me that there was nothing on the market that was suitable. If they were insisting on hybrid tech, that might be sensible, but pure EVs are so far off being able to match some ICE useage patterns it's madness.

    That's before looking at the requirements for my employer's business for a light pickup truck, 1.5T capacity, would need 1000 mile range - and we are the people who literally keep you supplied with life's essentials (in our case, mostly water).

    They are also really going to screw the poor. When I was fairly impoverished I invested £300 in a 17 year old diesel Skoda. Apart from being old and scruffy it was basically as good as a new car to use - it started, drove me were I wanted, managed to get the right side of 50mpg. Buying a old Nissan Leaf will probably mean a range that doesn't get you 20 miles. Which in turn will make the residuals really poor, which will do over new buyers too.
    I think you underestimate the rate of battery development. What's your car budget, and what range do you need ?
    The Tesla pickup coming out at the end of this year will be available with a 500 mile range - and that is now; fifteen years is quite a long time.
    You are asking someone who works in business to wait a year for a car?
    Its a bit like soviet Russia...
    No, I am saying that in fifteen years' time, which is what we're talking about, the electric vehicles you require will already have been available for half a decade.
    At the very least.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    edited February 2020

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I didn't say the culprit here was an immigrant, but he is here because of the policy I referenced, which I would say is responsible for every Islamic terrorist attack in 21st Century Britain

    Nope. British people are radicalised and attracted to foreign ideologies all the time. Yes, some immigration meant that some people were closer at hand. But a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar.

    Plus what is the alternative to the policy if you are right? No immigration? Some kind of education programme which radicals will just play along with?

    Sadly there is no alternative to where we are now.
    "a third generation Brit could sit in his bedroom, become radicalised against the wishes of his immediate family, and then go out, grab a knife and start shouting Allahu Akbar."

    Yes, almost exactly the problem. That is why it was a disastrous policy to allow Islamic immigration to the extent we did.

    A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair.
    The only thing that will stop Islamic extremism is Islamic representation, and then we will see more right wing extremism, so its all bad
    You want some sort of "official control" for Muslims?
    Not how we do it in the UK, pal.
    Please don't patronise me with "pal" like that, can't see why you'd want to annoy me.
    Baclk to your point, I don't understand why you are placing those words in my mouth, they dont resemble anything I said nor think
    You said this:
    "A lot less immigration 40 odd years ago was the solution. I don't think there is one now really, the number of muslims will increase and, until they have some sort of official control, so will the radicals, so as @Cyclefree it is a counsel of despair."
    If your own words annoy you that is not my fault
    No, your word "pal" annoyed me.
    "Dude"?
    Surely, no-one can take offence at "mi duck"?
    Pretty sure Sir Francis Drake might have done so.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm slightly surprised that Biden is odds on in the Iowa betting. From my casual analysis, it looks like the strong Warren performance is going to deny him the second preferences that he needs for victory.

    I think Buttigieg gets this on the basis that he takes far more Klobuchar second places than Sanders.

    My assumption is that the Pro Bernie buzz comes from all his voters being young hip and techno savvy or being in places easy for the media to get to. We aren't hearing from the rural precincts yet.

    I don't feel strongly enough about that thought to bet on it.

    Still think Warren is a good bet for the nom at the moment with a price above 10s.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    Stocky said:

    Come on rcs1000 - where are you? - still wiping the sleepy dust from your eyes?

    Yep. In an Uber on the way to the airport.

    How is everyone this fine morning?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,002
    edited February 2020


    On one of my Scotrail expeditions last year, I swear I remember the conductor asking me "Can I see your ticket, please, pal?" He seemed friendly enough.

    Classic offer of implied violence if you didnae hae wan.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    Stocky said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm slightly surprised that Biden is odds on in the Iowa betting. From my casual analysis, it looks like the strong Warren performance is going to deny him the second preferences that he needs for victory.

    I think Buttigieg gets this on the basis that he takes far more Klobuchar second places than Sanders.

    Ah you`re back! Been waiting for you to post.

    Biden odds-on? Did you mean Sanders?
    Yep... That's what happens when you get up at 445am to catch a flight. (And when your daughter has a nightmare in the middle of the night.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm slightly surprised that Biden is odds on in the Iowa betting. From my casual analysis, it looks like the strong Warren performance is going to deny him the second preferences that he needs for victory.

    I think Buttigieg gets this on the basis that he takes far more Klobuchar second places than Sanders.

    Ah you`re back! Been waiting for you to post.

    Biden odds-on? Did you mean Sanders?
    Yep... That's what happens when you get up at 445am to catch a flight. (And when your daughter has a nightmare in the middle of the night.)
    She's surely too young to be a candidate in Iowa ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230

    In Manchester be called a 'c*nt' is seen as a term of endearment.

    Call someone 'mate' and a fight ensues.

    I recall an incident when a LibDem (Paddy Ashdown?) called out to a bloke in Liverpool, "Hello, friend!" The reply came back, "I'm not yer fooking friend."
    'Sorry, mate...'
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    I wonder how the many thousands in the car industry in marginal seats are thinking today after Boris Johnson brought forward a ban on the products that pay their salaries.

    We are totally decimating one of your major industries, but don;t worry a hugely expensive railway is coming in fifteen years time.

    I didn't realize Boris was going to ban electric cars...
    Electric cars are still a tiny fraction of the car market. Tiny.
    They won't be in 15 years. Nissan for instance is already busy moving over e.g. this years version one of their core models the Qashqai, made in Sunderland, will no longer be made with a diesel engine, they will offer hybrid. Give it 5-10 years and it will be electric only.

    15 years is plenty of time to transition away from tradition engines, given that most producers have investing in doing so for years now.
    Except electric tech doesn't even nearly begin to work for some users. I put my usage patterns into an EV calculator recently, and it told me that there was nothing on the market that was suitable. If they were insisting on hybrid tech, that might be sensible, but pure EVs are so far off being able to match some ICE useage patterns it's madness.

    That's before looking at the requirements for my employer's business for a light pickup truck, 1.5T capacity, would need 1000 mile range - and we are the people who literally keep you supplied with life's essentials (in our case, mostly water).

    They are also really going to screw the poor. When I was fairly impoverished I invested £300 in a 17 year old diesel Skoda. Apart from being old and scruffy it was basically as good as a new car to use - it started, drove me were I wanted, managed to get the right side of 50mpg. Buying a old Nissan Leaf will probably mean a range that doesn't get you 20 miles. Which in turn will make the residuals really poor, which will do over new buyers too.
    I think you underestimate the rate of battery development. What's your car budget, and what range do you need ?

    The Tesla pickup coming out at the end of this year will be available with a 500 mile range - and that is now; fifteen years is quite a long time.
    The Tesla pickup is far too large for British roads. It dwarves the F Series.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Travelling, so I haven't completely caught up with the announcment by Boris and Sir David today on canning diesel and petrol cars. But Claire Perry O'Neill being sacked on Friday as President of COP26 is an interesting one. She was the person pushed out to be responsible for canning tidal lagoons. Not really the person you want fronting our showcase for climate change action.

    I'm also hearing that it is to be made a Ministerial role because some big beasts like the idea of heading it. We already have Boris signing up Mark Carney for the finance advisor to COP26. Michael Gove is a name I have heard mentioned to be President.

    We should get the Cabinet reshuffle soon - again, I've heard this weekend mentioned.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,121
    edited February 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm slightly surprised that Biden is odds on in the Iowa betting. From my casual analysis, it looks like the strong Warren performance is going to deny him the second preferences that he needs for victory.

    I think Buttigieg gets this on the basis that he takes far more Klobuchar second places than Sanders.

    Ah you`re back! Been waiting for you to post.

    Biden odds-on? Did you mean Sanders?
    Yep... That's what happens when you get up at 445am to catch a flight. (And when your daughter has a nightmare in the middle of the night.)
    Dreaming it will be Bernie vs Trump in Nov scares even us adults...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    Come on rcs1000 - where are you? - still wiping the sleepy dust from your eyes?

    Yep. In an Uber on the way to the airport.

    How is everyone this fine morning?
    A bit confused - wasn`t expecting to see Iowa unresolved and Sanders and Buttigieg as the only two possibles (according to BF).

    So your prediction is: 1st Buttigieg, 2nd Sanders, 3rd Warren. Have I got that right?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    edited February 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    I wonder how the many thousands in the car industry in marginal seats are thinking today after Boris Johnson brought forward a ban on the products that pay their salaries.

    We are totally decimating one of your major industries, but don;t worry a hugely expensive railway is coming in fifteen years time.

    I didn't realize Boris was going to ban electric cars...
    Electric cars are still a tiny fraction of the car market. Tiny.
    They won't be in 15 years. Nissan for instance is already busy moving over e.g. this years version one of their core models the Qashqai, made in Sunderland, will no longer be made with a diesel engine, they will offer hybrid. Give it 5-10 years and it will be electric only.

    15 years is plenty of time to transition away from tradition engines, given that most producers have investing in doing so for years now.
    Except electric tech doesn't even nearly begin to work for some users. I put my usage patterns into an EV calculator recently, and it told me that there was nothing on the market that was suitable. If they were insisting on hybrid tech, that might be sensible, but pure EVs are so far off being able to match some ICE useage patterns it's madness.

    That's before looking at the requirements for my employer's business for a light pickup truck, 1.5T capacity, would need 1000 mile range - and we are the people who literally keep you supplied with life's essentials (in our case, mostly water).

    They are also really going to screw the poor. When I was fairly impoverished I invested £300 in a 17 year old diesel Skoda. Apart from being old and scruffy it was basically as good as a new car to use - it started, drove me were I wanted, managed to get the right side of 50mpg. Buying a old Nissan Leaf will probably mean a range that doesn't get you 20 miles. Which in turn will make the residuals really poor, which will do over new buyers too.
    I think you underestimate the rate of battery development. What's your car budget, and what range do you need ?

    The Tesla pickup coming out at the end of this year will be available with a 500 mile range - and that is now; fifteen years is quite a long time.
    The Tesla pickup is far too large for British roads. It dwarves the F Series.
    Is that the one that does 0-60 in 5 seconds? Astonishing power.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    Stocky said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Stocky said:

    Come on rcs1000 - where are you? - still wiping the sleepy dust from your eyes?

    Yep. In an Uber on the way to the airport.

    How is everyone this fine morning?
    A bit confused - wasn`t expecting to see Iowa unresolved and Sanders and Buttigieg as the only two possibles (according to BF).

    So your prediction is: 1st Buttigieg, 2nd Sanders, 3rd Warren. Have I got that right?
    Yes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    edited February 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:



    Except electric tech doesn't even nearly begin to work for some users. I put my usage patterns into an EV calculator recently, and it told me that there was nothing on the market that was suitable. If they were insisting on hybrid tech, that might be sensible, but pure EVs are so far off being able to match some ICE useage patterns it's madness.

    That's before looking at the requirements for my employer's business for a light pickup truck, 1.5T capacity, would need 1000 mile range - and we are the people who literally keep you supplied with life's essentials (in our case, mostly water).

    They are also really going to screw the poor. When I was fairly impoverished I invested £300 in a 17 year old diesel Skoda. Apart from being old and scruffy it was basically as good as a new car to use - it started, drove me were I wanted, managed to get the right side of 50mpg. Buying a old Nissan Leaf will probably mean a range that doesn't get you 20 miles. Which in turn will make the residuals really poor, which will do over new buyers too.

    I think you underestimate the rate of battery development. What's your car budget, and what range do you need ?

    The Tesla pickup coming out at the end of this year will be available with a 500 mile range - and that is now; fifteen years is quite a long time.
    The Tesla pickup is far too large for British roads. It dwarves the F Series.
    Still sleepy, I see.
    I was merely pointing out that the EV performance our grumpy interlocutors require is almost here already. And the regulations they are so concerned about impose a ban on ICE vehicles in fifteen years' time.

    (Incidentally, there is a silicon anode battery in the works, which should be ready in around five years time for mass production, capable of being recharged in five minutes, and offering energy densities well in excess of the current state of the art.)
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Travelling, so I haven't completely caught up with the announcment by Boris and Sir David today on canning diesel and petrol cars. But Claire Perry O'Neill being sacked on Friday as President of COP26 is an interesting one. She was the person pushed out to be responsible for canning tidal lagoons. Not really the person you want fronting our showcase for climate change action.

    I'm also hearing that it is to be made a Ministerial role because some big beasts like the idea of heading it. We already have Boris signing up Mark Carney for the finance advisor to COP26. Michael Gove is a name I have heard mentioned to be President.

    We should get the Cabinet reshuffle soon - again, I've heard this weekend mentioned.

    Given the GE success, I`m surprised that Boris thinks a reshuffle is needed. Every reshuffle creates enemies, and things seem on an even keel in these early weeks. What are your thoughts on the matter?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    Can’t believe we still have no results. American democracy is a poor joke.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    I wonder how the many thousands in the car industry in marginal seats are thinking today after Boris Johnson brought forward a ban on the products that pay their salaries.

    We are totally decimating one of your major industries, but don;t worry a hugely expensive railway is coming in fifteen years time.

    I didn't realize Boris was going to ban electric cars...
    Electric cars are still a tiny fraction of the car market. Tiny.
    They won't be in 15 years. Nissan for instance is already busy moving over e.g. this years version one of their core models the Qashqai, made in Sunderland, will no longer be made with a diesel engine, they will offer hybrid. Give it 5-10 years and it will be electric only.

    15 years is plenty of time to transition away from tradition engines, given that most producers have investing in doing so for years now.
    Except electric tech doesn't even nearly begin to work for some users. I put my usage patterns into an EV calculator recently, and it told me that there was nothing on the market that was suitable. If they were insisting on hybrid tech, that might be sensible, but pure EVs are so far off being able to match some ICE useage patterns it's madness.

    That's before looking at the requirements for my employer's business for a light pickup truck, 1.5T capacity, would need 1000 mile range - and we are the people who literally keep you supplied with life's essentials (in our case, mostly water).

    They are also really going to screw the poor. When I was fairly impoverished I invested £300 in a 17 year old diesel Skoda. Apart from being old and scruffy it was basically as good as a new car to use - it started, drove me were I wanted, managed to get the right side of 50mpg. Buying a old Nissan Leaf will probably mean a range that doesn't get you 20 miles. Which in turn will make the residuals really poor, which will do over new buyers too.
    I think you underestimate the rate of battery development. What's your car budget, and what range do you need ?

    The Tesla pickup coming out at the end of this year will be available with a 500 mile range - and that is now; fifteen years is quite a long time.
    The Tesla pickup is far too large for British roads. It dwarves the F Series.
    Is that the one that does 0-60 in 5 seconds? Astonishing power.
    That was the Tesla Semi - rather a lot bigger:
    https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/semi
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    DavidL said:

    Can’t believe we still have no results. American democracy is a poor joke.

    is hanging chads again?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    DavidL said:


    Is that the one that does 0-60 in 5 seconds? Astonishing power.

    As the death of the term Petrol-head approaches, we are going to need a new term.

    Amp-rampers?

    Volt-dolts?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468

    Travelling, so I haven't completely caught up with the announcment by Boris and Sir David today on canning diesel and petrol cars. But Claire Perry O'Neill being sacked on Friday as President of COP26 is an interesting one. She was the person pushed out to be responsible for canning tidal lagoons. Not really the person you want fronting our showcase for climate change action.

    I'm also hearing that it is to be made a Ministerial role because some big beasts like the idea of heading it. We already have Boris signing up Mark Carney for the finance advisor to COP26. Michael Gove is a name I have heard mentioned to be President.

    We should get the Cabinet reshuffle soon - again, I've heard this weekend mentioned.

    Just wondering about that. Has Boris REALLY made his peace with Gove? Or vice versa?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Thank you Mate/my Lover/Pall / Friend to Whoever posted this crowd sorsed gathering of results from some Iowa Caucuses, about 4.5% and probably not a representative sample. but still something.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VpPjgfoH-n7Ie8OmIa2eHoP88IvIkBR9wwkUL7bO1Y4/htmlview?sle=true#gid=0

    I not that Klobuchar has less than the 15% in the firsts round so in a lot of places she has dropped to 0, but non the less she has increased her vote in the second round. I would suggest that this indicates she is transfer friendly, or a strong second chose for lots of people.

    Not deep analysis but about the only thing to postulate on while we wait.
  • In Manchester be called a 'c*nt' is seen as a term of endearment.

    Call someone 'mate' and a fight ensues.

    I got called "duck" by the girl behind the counter at Sheffield station Burger King a few years back.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Travelling, so I haven't completely caught up with the announcment by Boris and Sir David today on canning diesel and petrol cars. But Claire Perry O'Neill being sacked on Friday as President of COP26 is an interesting one. She was the person pushed out to be responsible for canning tidal lagoons. Not really the person you want fronting our showcase for climate change action.

    I'm also hearing that it is to be made a Ministerial role because some big beasts like the idea of heading it. We already have Boris signing up Mark Carney for the finance advisor to COP26. Michael Gove is a name I have heard mentioned to be President.

    We should get the Cabinet reshuffle soon - again, I've heard this weekend mentioned.

    Just wondering about that. Has Boris REALLY made his peace with Gove? Or vice versa?
    COP26 is essentially a one year job. An olive branch from Boris? Make us all look good, and you are back in?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230

    DavidL said:


    Is that the one that does 0-60 in 5 seconds? Astonishing power.

    As the death of the term Petrol-head approaches, we are going to need a new term.

    Amp-rampers?

    Volt-dolts?
    Wattwits ?
  • Mr. L, to be fair, it's nowhere near as slack as a London mayoral result.
  • Mr. B, Hertznerds?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Stocky said:

    Travelling, so I haven't completely caught up with the announcment by Boris and Sir David today on canning diesel and petrol cars. But Claire Perry O'Neill being sacked on Friday as President of COP26 is an interesting one. She was the person pushed out to be responsible for canning tidal lagoons. Not really the person you want fronting our showcase for climate change action.

    I'm also hearing that it is to be made a Ministerial role because some big beasts like the idea of heading it. We already have Boris signing up Mark Carney for the finance advisor to COP26. Michael Gove is a name I have heard mentioned to be President.

    We should get the Cabinet reshuffle soon - again, I've heard this weekend mentioned.

    Given the GE success, I`m surprised that Boris thinks a reshuffle is needed. Every reshuffle creates enemies, and things seem on an even keel in these early weeks. What are your thoughts on the matter?
    Regardless of anything else, we need a new culture sec (as Morgan doesn't want to continue from the Lords) plus a replacement for whatever Goldsmith was doing as well.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Stocky said:

    Travelling, so I haven't completely caught up with the announcment by Boris and Sir David today on canning diesel and petrol cars. But Claire Perry O'Neill being sacked on Friday as President of COP26 is an interesting one. She was the person pushed out to be responsible for canning tidal lagoons. Not really the person you want fronting our showcase for climate change action.

    I'm also hearing that it is to be made a Ministerial role because some big beasts like the idea of heading it. We already have Boris signing up Mark Carney for the finance advisor to COP26. Michael Gove is a name I have heard mentioned to be President.

    We should get the Cabinet reshuffle soon - again, I've heard this weekend mentioned.

    Given the GE success, I`m surprised that Boris thinks a reshuffle is needed. Every reshuffle creates enemies, and things seem on an even keel in these early weeks. What are your thoughts on the matter?
    Still hearing there will be one, but not as extensive as previously thought. Can't afford to throw too many/any women under the bus. Leadsom might still have a role, which looked unlikely a couple of months back.

    Depends on what Dominic wants to happen.
  • Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:


    Is that the one that does 0-60 in 5 seconds? Astonishing power.

    As the death of the term Petrol-head approaches, we are going to need a new term.

    Amp-rampers?

    Volt-dolts?
    Wattwits ?
    Battery chickens.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020
    DavidL said:

    Can’t believe we still have no results. American democracy is a poor joke.

    No, the Republican caucus went fine.

    The Democratic party is the joke.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    The term petrolhead will persist into the EV as will the stipulation that you are not a real one unless you've run from the cops and got away.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    DavidL said:

    Can’t believe we still have no results. American democracy is a poor joke.

    No, the Republican primary went fine.

    The Democratic party is the joke.
    Ha! I didn't realise that they had one too - the results look North Korean.
  • CatMan said:
    Especially after you've watched Sex Education.
  • In Manchester be called a 'c*nt' is seen as a term of endearment.

    Call someone 'mate' and a fight ensues.

    I got called "duck" by the girl behind the counter at Sheffield station Burger King a few years back.
    'Cock' is a term of familiarity and endearment in my neck of the woods. 'Alright, cock?'
  • Awks.

    Three leading British media outlets have been left embarrassed and facing accusations of racism after they mislabelled a series of photos of black female Labour MPs.

    In a chaotic series of events, the BBC was initially forced to apologise after mislabelling the Labour MP Marsha de Cordova as Labour frontbencher Dawn Butler on its Parliament channel.

    Then, in an article about the BBC’s mistake, the Evening Standard’s online edition published a picture of a third black female Labour MP, Bell Ribeiro-Addy, mistakenly claiming it was De Cordova.

    The Evening Standard blamed a wrongly captioned photo provided by Getty Images, the main supplier of editorial images to British news outlets.

    On Monday, De Cordova, the MP for Battersea, was speaking at a debate in the Commons about the agriculture bill. But the strap-line identified her as Butler, the MP for Brent Central and one of the candidates for the Labour deputy leadership.

    Butler criticised the public broadcaster in a tweet, in which she stated that diversity in the workplace would help to avoid such mistakes.


    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/04/news-outlets-in-racism-row-over-mislabelling-photos-of-black-mps
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    DavidL said:

    Can’t believe we still have no results. American democracy is a poor joke.

    No, the Republican caucus went fine.

    The Democratic party is the joke.
    Bill Weld, the former governor of Massachusetts and 2016 VP candadid got 1.3% (423 votes)

    I wish him well, and I understand he has been putting most of his efforts in to New Hampshire. but to say he has an up hill battles, would be an understatement.
  • Cricviz now have England as favourites in the cricket....absolute bullshit model.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:



    Except electric tech doesn't even nearly begin to work for some users. I put my usage patterns into an EV calculator recently, and it told me that there was nothing on the market that was suitable. If they were insisting on hybrid tech, that might be sensible, but pure EVs are so far off being able to match some ICE useage patterns it's madness.

    That's before looking at the requirements for my employer's business for a light pickup truck, 1.5T capacity, would need 1000 mile range - and we are the people who literally keep you supplied with life's essentials (in our case, mostly water).

    They are also really going to screw the poor. When I was fairly impoverished I invested £300 in a 17 year old diesel Skoda. Apart from being old and scruffy it was basically as good as a new car to use - it started, drove me were I wanted, managed to get the right side of 50mpg. Buying a old Nissan Leaf will probably mean a range that doesn't get you 20 miles. Which in turn will make the residuals really poor, which will do over new buyers too.

    I think you underestimate the rate of battery development. What's your car budget, and what range do you need ?

    The Tesla pickup coming out at the end of this year will be available with a 500 mile range - and that is now; fifteen years is quite a long time.
    The Tesla pickup is far too large for British roads. It dwarves the F Series.
    Still sleepy, I see.
    I was merely pointing out that the EV performance our grumpy interlocutors require is almost here already. And the regulations they are so concerned about impose a ban on ICE vehicles in fifteen years' time.

    (Incidentally, there is a silicon anode battery in the works, which should be ready in around five years time for mass production, capable of being recharged in five minutes, and offering energy densities well in excess of the current state of the art.)
    I apologise. I was in the back of an Uber, and rushed to comment.

    And you are correct. You can now - in most parts of the world - treat an EV as your only car, so long as you are reasonably well off. (By which I mean, that you have the cash to buy a long range version of a Tesla. Or perhaps the Porsche Taycan, which appears to get 270-280 miles in real world use.)

    If you charge every night at home (no big deal), then you'll maybe use public charging infrastructure 2-3 times a year. And then it's remarkable how good it's gotten. I drove LA to Vegas, and there was a Tesla supercharger in the middle of the desert with 20 or so slots. People were chatting away for 10-15 minutes while they took their tank from 20 to 80%, and then drove off. Sure, it was a longer wait than at a petrol station... but it wasn't much longer.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533



    Still hearing there will be one, but not as extensive as previously thought. Can't afford to throw too many/any women under the bus. Leadsom might still have a role, which looked unlikely a couple of months back.

    Depends on what Dominic wants to happen.

    Definitely on next week.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    tlg86 said:

    DavidL said:

    Can’t believe we still have no results. American democracy is a poor joke.

    No, the Republican primary went fine.

    The Democratic party is the joke.
    Ha! I didn't realise that they had one too - the results look North Korean.
    I think it's fair to say, President Trump is unlikely to face a serious Primary Challenge.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    'Cock' is a term of familiarity and endearment in my neck of the woods. 'Alright, cock?'

    My dad (but thankfully never my mother) used to call me that.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Awks.

    Three leading British media outlets have been left embarrassed and facing accusations of racism after they mislabelled a series of photos of black female Labour MPs.

    In a chaotic series of events, the BBC was initially forced to apologise after mislabelling the Labour MP Marsha de Cordova as Labour frontbencher Dawn Butler on its Parliament channel.

    Then, in an article about the BBC’s mistake, the Evening Standard’s online edition published a picture of a third black female Labour MP, Bell Ribeiro-Addy, mistakenly claiming it was De Cordova.

    The Evening Standard blamed a wrongly captioned photo provided by Getty Images, the main supplier of editorial images to British news outlets.

    On Monday, De Cordova, the MP for Battersea, was speaking at a debate in the Commons about the agriculture bill. But the strap-line identified her as Butler, the MP for Brent Central and one of the candidates for the Labour deputy leadership.

    Butler criticised the public broadcaster in a tweet, in which she stated that diversity in the workplace would help to avoid such mistakes.


    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/feb/04/news-outlets-in-racism-row-over-mislabelling-photos-of-black-mps

    In for a penny, in for a pound - couldn't they have called Lammy Bernie Grant?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    I think you underestimate the rate of battery development. What's your car budget, and what range do you need ?

    The Tesla pickup coming out at the end of this year will be available with a 500 mile range - and that is now; fifteen years is quite a long time.

    The Tesla pickup is far too large for British roads. It dwarves the F Series.
    Still sleepy, I see.
    I was merely pointing out that the EV performance our grumpy interlocutors require is almost here already. And the regulations they are so concerned about impose a ban on ICE vehicles in fifteen years' time.

    (Incidentally, there is a silicon anode battery in the works, which should be ready in around five years time for mass production, capable of being recharged in five minutes, and offering energy densities well in excess of the current state of the art.)
    I apologise. I was in the back of an Uber, and rushed to comment.

    And you are correct. You can now - in most parts of the world - treat an EV as your only car, so long as you are reasonably well off. (By which I mean, that you have the cash to buy a long range version of a Tesla. Or perhaps the Porsche Taycan, which appears to get 270-280 miles in real world use.)

    If you charge every night at home (no big deal), then you'll maybe use public charging infrastructure 2-3 times a year. And then it's remarkable how good it's gotten. I drove LA to Vegas, and there was a Tesla supercharger in the middle of the desert with 20 or so slots. People were chatting away for 10-15 minutes while they took their tank from 20 to 80%, and then drove off. Sure, it was a longer wait than at a petrol station... but it wasn't much longer.
    There are actually now 40 supercharger stalls in Baker, CA on the freeway to Vegas. (As well as another bunch in Yermo)
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836

    DavidL said:

    Can’t believe we still have no results. American democracy is a poor joke.

    No, the Republican caucus went fine.

    The Democratic party is the joke.
    The Republican Primary system has scrapped half of their primaries so the Dear Leader can win unopposed.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    eek said:
    Of course! It was the Jews! It is always the fault of the Jews...
  • Bloody snowflakes...

    Christian is the most junior member of our reporting team and has been in the job for a matter of months. He is live tweeting the proceedings on my instructions. Today when Christian began tweeting someone shouted “That wanker’s tweeted… we’re off embargo.” Christian is now reluctant to attend the briefings.

    https://order-order.com/2020/02/04/guido-writes-lobby-chairman-bullying/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:


    I think you underestimate the rate of battery development. What's your car budget, and what range do you need ?

    The Tesla pickup coming out at the end of this year will be available with a 500 mile range - and that is now; fifteen years is quite a long time.

    The Tesla pickup is far too large for British roads. It dwarves the F Series.
    Still sleepy, I see.
    I was merely pointing out that the EV performance our grumpy interlocutors require is almost here already. And the regulations they are so concerned about impose a ban on ICE vehicles in fifteen years' time.

    (Incidentally, there is a silicon anode battery in the works, which should be ready in around five years time for mass production, capable of being recharged in five minutes, and offering energy densities well in excess of the current state of the art.)
    I apologise. I was in the back of an Uber, and rushed to comment.

    And you are correct. You can now - in most parts of the world - treat an EV as your only car, so long as you are reasonably well off. (By which I mean, that you have the cash to buy a long range version of a Tesla. Or perhaps the Porsche Taycan, which appears to get 270-280 miles in real world use.)

    If you charge every night at home (no big deal), then you'll maybe use public charging infrastructure 2-3 times a year. And then it's remarkable how good it's gotten. I drove LA to Vegas, and there was a Tesla supercharger in the middle of the desert with 20 or so slots. People were chatting away for 10-15 minutes while they took their tank from 20 to 80%, and then drove off. Sure, it was a longer wait than at a petrol station... but it wasn't much longer.
    No problem.
    The other thing happening is that large battery factories are planned and/or starting to be built in the EU to support the production of millions of cars (see most recently the PSA/Saft announcement). It's not enough yet to replace existing ICE production, but it won't take much more of a nudge for that to happen very rapidly.

    And on the affordability side, battery costs have dropped very rapidly over the last decade, and will continue to do so. As they represent the largest cost in manufacturing EVs, overall prices will come down, too. And remember electric vehicles have a fraction of the parts required for ICEs.

    The transition is undoubtedly going to be painful for some - manufacturers and consumers alike. But the faster it happens, the better for all of us.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited February 2020
    Gabs3 said:

    DavidL said:

    Can’t believe we still have no results. American democracy is a poor joke.

    No, the Republican caucus went fine.

    The Democratic party is the joke.
    The Republican Primary system has scrapped half of their primaries so the Dear Leader can win unopposed.
    This often happens in the re-election of a sitting president, the local party can decide they'd rather use the money on campaigning. I don't remember anyone complaining when the Dems did the same for that awful tyrant demogogue Obama.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,211
    Lol the last thing a Buttigieg backer would want to do is dampen any sort of Pete-mentum from Iowa.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219

    Gabs3 said:

    DavidL said:

    Can’t believe we still have no results. American democracy is a poor joke.

    No, the Republican caucus went fine.

    The Democratic party is the joke.
    The Republican Primary system has scrapped half of their primaries so the Dear Leader can win unopposed.
    This often happens in the re-election of a sitting president, the local party can decide they'd rather use the money on campaigning. I don't remember anyone complaining when the Dems did the same for that awful tyrant demogogue Obama.
    Did the Democrats stop Primary Challengers? I mean, it wasn't much of a contest, but the Primaries happened.

    And in one state (West Virginia), Obama faced a genuinely serious threat with his (imprisoned IIRC) opponent getting 40-odd percent of the vote.

    The only thing the DNC did, I think, was be accused of preventing one of Obama's challengers of airing a Superbowl advert. The networks claimed I think that they refused the advert because said candidate couldn't pay in advance for it.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited February 2020

    Gabs3 said:

    DavidL said:

    Can’t believe we still have no results. American democracy is a poor joke.

    No, the Republican caucus went fine.

    The Democratic party is the joke.
    The Republican Primary system has scrapped half of their primaries so the Dear Leader can win unopposed.
    This often happens in the re-election of a sitting president, the local party can decide they'd rather use the money on campaigning. I don't remember anyone complaining when the Dems did the same for that awful tyrant demogogue Obama.
    I thought in 2012 every state ran a Dem primary plus overseas territories?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
This discussion has been closed.