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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Irish General Election 2020 : Predictions & Review, Part 2

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  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,625

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
  • https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1222903975885725696

    Ignoring the snark, this doesn't sound like a group ready to play nice just yet.

    Tbh the Leavers don't seem particularly content with what they've got so far either.

    https://twitter.com/AllisterHeath/status/1222780504103145473?s=20
  • Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
  • Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,625

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
    The Mail are good at finding people who “struggle” to “cope” on six figure salaries living in Surrey, what with the massive mortgage, three sets of school fees and the skiing holiday to pay for...

    They’re trolling, and best ignored.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    RobD said:

    US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has said his country will help the UK reduce risks associated with involving Huawei in its 5G network.

    He said officials would work together to "get this right" after the UK's decision to give the Chinese firm a limited role in building its system.

    Mr Pompeo added that intelligence-sharing arrangements between the two countries would continue.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51313481

    So a lot of bluff then? :D
    Trump let the cat out of the bag when he directly linked sanctions on Huawei to a trade deal with China.
  • Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    I'd imagine if 'brilliant uncirculated' goes for £10, a 1000% mark up would be the least of it.
  • HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Folk as in a couple? a professional couple would probably not unreasonably be on £100k between them. A pair of time served teachers would be more or less that.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861

    Pulpstar said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    This morning I went into an independent coffee shop and was confronted with a menu with a string of items that I hadn't heard of. Am I pig ignorant for not knowing what a "half and half" or a "Lawson" is?
    I'm afraid you're out of step with the cool kids, now you're living out in deepest Brexitshire.
    FPT re the Essex-Suffolk border, I once went out with a girl from Nayland.
    That sounds like the start of a limerick. Nayland is very nice, but since it is in Suffolk, it is clearly not in the Suffolk-Essex borders, which is only found in north Essex. Everything north of the border is south Suffolk.
    There once was a girl from Nayland
    Who worked as a fitter for Leyland
    When she left my life
    She ran off with my wife.
    Now I’m all alone in this grey land.
  • Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.
    Earn £100k per year and you are upper anything to do with income.

    Whatever conditions you try to justify not describing it as such.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.
    Earn £100k per year and you are upper anything to do with income.

    Whatever conditions you try to justify not describing it as such.
    My goodness, it's like talking to a wall.

    Income is nothing to do with class. I'm talking specifically about class.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,625
    edited January 2020

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    A little research suggests half an ounce of gold in a 50p piece, so about £605 of gold at today’s price.

    https://www.bullionbypost.co.uk/gold-coins/uk-currency-coins/gold-fifty-pence-piece/

    Also, the Brexit gold coin is limited to 1,500 pieces, so will have future collectible value as a coin.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    People like collecting things. I don't see a problem with that.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tXBC-71aZs
  • RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    To some people these things are important, actually for all of us there are important things. This is a great gift for a brexit fan.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.
    Accidentally watched an episode of Question Time recently, where there was spat between Richard Burgon and an audience member. Burgon said that anyone earning over £80k was well off, and the audience member said that he was lying; he earned that and wasn't, and that every solicitor or doctor earned more than that. Burgon said that when he practised a solicitor he earned half of that.

    I didn't see/hear how it ended.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    Endillion said:

    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.

    Did I "do" you and you weren't happy with the outcome? Don't fully recall.

    What I do recall is that @isam is a Provisional 9 (working class) but has yet to provide sufficient data for me to go Final on it.
  • Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.
    Earn £100k per year and you are upper anything to do with income.

    Whatever conditions you try to justify not describing it as such.
    Upper income yes. That's not the phrase you used though is it?
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    Govt making money out of a voluntary tax or those both wealthy enough and too stupid to realise it's such, is fine by me. more power to its elbow.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    stjohn said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    This morning I went into an independent coffee shop and was confronted with a menu with a string of items that I hadn't heard of. Am I pig ignorant for not knowing what a "half and half" or a "Lawson" is?
    I'm afraid you're out of step with the cool kids, now you're living out in deepest Brexitshire.
    FPT re the Essex-Suffolk border, I once went out with a girl from Nayland.
    That sounds like the start of a limerick. Nayland is very nice, but since it is in Suffolk, it is clearly not in the Suffolk-Essex borders, which is only found in north Essex. Everything north of the border is south Suffolk.
    There once was a girl from Nayland
    Who worked as a fitter for Leyland
    When she left my life
    She ran off with my wife.
    Now I’m all alone in this grey land.
    North Essex is somewhat grey today. Good golf course not far from Nayland, I'm told. Don't play the game myself.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    They might even strike one out of the 1500 with an oxford comma. That one would be worth a fortune.
  • https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1222903975885725696

    Ignoring the snark, this doesn't sound like a group ready to play nice just yet.

    Tbh the Leavers don't seem particularly content with what they've got so far either.

    https://twitter.com/AllisterHeath/status/1222780504103145473?s=20
    I'm content and think its none of my business what other nations in Europe do.

    Some batshit crazies will always be batshit crazy. There's batshit crazies on all sides, so long as they don't take over (like the Labour leadership) they're better off being ignored or laughed at.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    So Scots oppose indyref2 even if the SNP won a majority in 2021, they do not want another one until at least 2025
    Have to say I read "In 5 years" as within 5 years.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    llef said:

    good news for the UK's electric van maker Arrival

    "UPS announced Wednesday investments in electric trucks, the testing of self-driving vans and the construction of a new “super hub” as part of its efforts to capitalize on the growth of e-commerce.

    UPS, which sees electric vehicles as a key part of its sustainability efforts, will purchase 10,000 electric vehicles from U.K.-based startup Arrival and take a minority stake in the company. The financial details were not disclosed."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/29/ups-is-eyeing-a-driverless-and-electric-future-for-its-fleet.html?__source=twitter|main

    That's amazingly good news.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    kinabalu said:

    Endillion said:

    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.

    Did I "do" you and you weren't happy with the outcome? Don't fully recall.

    What I do recall is that @isam is a Provisional 9 (working class) but has yet to provide sufficient data for me to go Final on it.
    I think I agreed with your assessment but couldn't see how you'd gotten there from your description of the system. Third generation white collar professional - which I claimed was a 12 and you seemed to think should be higher.
  • rcs1000 said:

    llef said:

    good news for the UK's electric van maker Arrival

    "UPS announced Wednesday investments in electric trucks, the testing of self-driving vans and the construction of a new “super hub” as part of its efforts to capitalize on the growth of e-commerce.

    UPS, which sees electric vehicles as a key part of its sustainability efforts, will purchase 10,000 electric vehicles from U.K.-based startup Arrival and take a minority stake in the company. The financial details were not disclosed."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/29/ups-is-eyeing-a-driverless-and-electric-future-for-its-fleet.html?__source=twitter|main

    That's amazingly good news.
    Never heard of them before but that's fantastic. :)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    edited January 2020
    Sandpit said:

    The Mail are good at finding people who “struggle” to “cope” on six figure salaries living in Surrey, what with the massive mortgage, three sets of SCHOOL FEES and the skiing holiday to pay for...

    Indeed. These take up a big slice of income for many struggling affluents. Their removal would be tantamount to a massive middle class tax break. Much more left in pocket and available for holidays, cars, vintage wines, cashmere sweaters, whatever. This is why the elimination of private schools is not Class War but a genuine "win win" One Nation policy.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    What use of gold makes it worth what it is? Why do many world governments hoard it?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    alterego said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    What use of gold makes it worth what it is? Why do many world governments hoard it?
    Its rarity.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,625
    edited January 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Mail are good at finding people who “struggle” to “cope” on six figure salaries living in Surrey, what with the massive mortgage, three sets of SCHOOL FEES and the skiing holiday to pay for...

    Indeed. These take up a big slice of income for many struggling affluents. Their removal would be tantamount to a massive middle class tax break. Much more left in pocket and available for holidays, cars, vintage wines, cashmere sweaters, whatever. This is why the elimination of private schools is not Class War but a genuine "win win" One Nation policy.
    Err, nope. It’ll all go on the mortgage to get in the right catchment area for the ‘good school’, as house prices in those areas increase drastically.

    The Islington set proposing the abolition of private schooling have never seen what Alastair Campbell (and his missus) called a “Bog standard secondary”
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    rcs1000 said:

    llef said:

    good news for the UK's electric van maker Arrival

    "UPS announced Wednesday investments in electric trucks, the testing of self-driving vans and the construction of a new “super hub” as part of its efforts to capitalize on the growth of e-commerce.

    UPS, which sees electric vehicles as a key part of its sustainability efforts, will purchase 10,000 electric vehicles from U.K.-based startup Arrival and take a minority stake in the company. The financial details were not disclosed."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/29/ups-is-eyeing-a-driverless-and-electric-future-for-its-fleet.html?__source=twitter|main

    That's amazingly good news.
    Very shrewd - ticks lots of boxes for (I suspect) not too much real risk investment.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    RobD said:

    alterego said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    What use of gold makes it worth what it is? Why do many world governments hoard it?
    Its rarity.
    My shit is rare - any offers?
  • Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Mail are good at finding people who “struggle” to “cope” on six figure salaries living in Surrey, what with the massive mortgage, three sets of SCHOOL FEES and the skiing holiday to pay for...

    Indeed. These take up a big slice of income for many struggling affluents. Their removal would be tantamount to a massive middle class tax break. Much more left in pocket and available for holidays, cars, vintage wines, cashmere sweaters, whatever. This is why the elimination of private schools is not Class War but a genuine "win win" One Nation policy.
    Err, nope. It’ll all go on the mortgage to get in the right catchment area for the ‘good school’, as house prices in those areas increase drastically.
    100% agreed.

    For some reason people like kinablu expect all schools to be the same. Which would entail all teachers being the same. I always wonder if people with these views think so little of teachers they expect them to be mere identikit robots rather than have any humanity, skill, intelligence, empathy or other personal qualities that matter.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    Endillion said:

    I think I agreed with your assessment but couldn't see how you'd gotten there from your description of the system. Third generation white collar professional - which I claimed was a 12 and you seemed to think should be higher.

    Oh yes, I remember now. Well, being a couple of points awry is OK. My system is mainly designed to catch out the real porkies. You know, people who for whatever reason really are rather misrepresenting themselves.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    alterego said:

    RobD said:

    alterego said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    What use of gold makes it worth what it is? Why do many world governments hoard it?
    Its rarity.
    My shit is rare - any offers?
    I have my own stable supply, thanks. ;)
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    RobD said:

    alterego said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    What use of gold makes it worth what it is? Why do many world governments hoard it?
    Its rarity.
    The Mint does this with all wacky 50p pieces; scroll down here https://www.royalmint.com/our-coins/ranges/gold-coins/

    for the current batch, all the same price. The remoanariat seem to be self-trolling here, it's as if someone said there was no way they could come up with something as twattish as the blue passport thing. they have risen heroically to the challenge.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Mail are good at finding people who “struggle” to “cope” on six figure salaries living in Surrey, what with the massive mortgage, three sets of SCHOOL FEES and the skiing holiday to pay for...

    Indeed. These take up a big slice of income for many struggling affluents. Their removal would be tantamount to a massive middle class tax break. Much more left in pocket and available for holidays, cars, vintage wines, cashmere sweaters, whatever. This is why the elimination of private schools is not Class War but a genuine "win win" One Nation policy.
    Err, nope. It’ll all go on the mortgage to get in the right catchment area for the ‘good school’, as house prices in those areas increase drastically.

    The Islington set proposing the abolition of private schooling have never seen what Alastair Campbell (and his missus) called a “Bog standard secondary”
    How can you say that? We all know there must be bogs in Islington .....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    alterego said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    What use of gold makes it worth what it is? Why do many world governments hoard it?
    Its rarity.
    The Mint does this with all wacky 50p pieces; scroll down here https://www.royalmint.com/our-coins/ranges/gold-coins/

    for the current batch, all the same price. The remoanariat seem to be self-trolling here, it's as if someone said there was no way they could come up with something as twattish as the blue passport thing. they have risen heroically to the challenge.
    Nothing will beat the Australian mint which made a massive gold coin:

    https://www.perthmint.com/1-tonne-gold-coin.aspx

    Yours for a mere $50 million.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230

    rcs1000 said:

    llef said:

    good news for the UK's electric van maker Arrival

    "UPS announced Wednesday investments in electric trucks, the testing of self-driving vans and the construction of a new “super hub” as part of its efforts to capitalize on the growth of e-commerce.

    UPS, which sees electric vehicles as a key part of its sustainability efforts, will purchase 10,000 electric vehicles from U.K.-based startup Arrival and take a minority stake in the company. The financial details were not disclosed."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/29/ups-is-eyeing-a-driverless-and-electric-future-for-its-fleet.html?__source=twitter|main

    That's amazingly good news.
    Never heard of them before but that's fantastic. :)
    Russian billionaire startup, with recent investment form Korean manufacturers. Promising.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    alterego said:

    RobD said:

    alterego said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    What use of gold makes it worth what it is? Why do many world governments hoard it?
    Its rarity.
    My shit is rare - any offers?
    Does it come in "brilliant uncirculated"?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.
    Accidentally watched an episode of Question Time recently, where there was spat between Richard Burgon and an audience member. Burgon said that anyone earning over £80k was well off, and the audience member said that he was lying; he earned that and wasn't, and that every solicitor or doctor earned more than that. Burgon said that when he practised a solicitor he earned half of that.

    I didn't see/hear how it ended.
    TBF, who would pick Burgon for their lawyer ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    Sandpit said:

    Err, nope. It’ll all go on the mortgage to get in the right catchment area for the ‘good school’, as house prices in those areas increase drastically.

    The Islington set proposing the abolition of private schooling have never seen what Alastair Campbell (and his missus) called a “Bog standard secondary”

    You are trying to nitpick your way out of a policy that you instinctively dislike because it has a "politics of envy" feel to it. I'm used to this.
  • kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    Err, nope. It’ll all go on the mortgage to get in the right catchment area for the ‘good school’, as house prices in those areas increase drastically.

    The Islington set proposing the abolition of private schooling have never seen what Alastair Campbell (and his missus) called a “Bog standard secondary”

    You are trying to nitpick your way out of a policy that you instinctively dislike because it has a "politics of envy" feel to it. I'm used to this.
    If you're used to it, maybe you should engage in less politics of envy?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    edited January 2020

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    The Ratners' aesthetic might see them depreciate below the scrap value...
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Endillion said:

    alterego said:

    RobD said:

    alterego said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    What use of gold makes it worth what it is? Why do many world governments hoard it?
    Its rarity.
    My shit is rare - any offers?
    Does it come in "brilliant uncirculated"?
    I don't know about brilliant but it's definitely uncirculated at source
  • Endillion said:

    alterego said:

    RobD said:

    alterego said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    What use of gold makes it worth what it is? Why do many world governments hoard it?
    Its rarity.
    My shit is rare - any offers?
    Does it come in "brilliant uncirculated"?
    Polished at least..
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Nigelb said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.
    Accidentally watched an episode of Question Time recently, where there was spat between Richard Burgon and an audience member. Burgon said that anyone earning over £80k was well off, and the audience member said that he was lying; he earned that and wasn't, and that every solicitor or doctor earned more than that. Burgon said that when he practised a solicitor he earned half of that.

    I didn't see/hear how it ended.
    TBF, who would pick Burgon for their lawyer ?
    Who would pick Burgon as a garden gnome? Hold on .....
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    Endillion said:

    alterego said:

    RobD said:

    alterego said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    What use of gold makes it worth what it is? Why do many world governments hoard it?
    Its rarity.
    My shit is rare - any offers?
    Does it come in "brilliant uncirculated"?
    Polished at least..
    It has to be aged before it's polishable
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    If you're used to it, maybe you should engage in less politics of envy?

    Hmm, but that's easier said than done because that label - or Class War - tends to get attached to any idea which has a halfway decent chance of diversifying wealth and opportunity away from those on the right side of our current MO to those on the wrong side of it.
  • kinabalu said:

    If you're used to it, maybe you should engage in less politics of envy?

    Hmm, but that's easier said than done because that label - or Class War - tends to get attached to any idea which has a halfway decent chance of diversifying wealth and opportunity away from those on the right side of our current MO to those on the wrong side of it.
    Maybe stop trying to diversify wealth away from anyone then and instead try and enable others to grow their own wealth?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    Nigelb said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.
    Accidentally watched an episode of Question Time recently, where there was spat between Richard Burgon and an audience member. Burgon said that anyone earning over £80k was well off, and the audience member said that he was lying; he earned that and wasn't, and that every solicitor or doctor earned more than that. Burgon said that when he practised a solicitor he earned half of that.

    I didn't see/hear how it ended.
    TBF, who would pick Burgon for their lawyer ?
    I did wonder. Might say more about Burgon than he realised.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    In California, the DMV allows you have whatever plate you like (so long as no-one else has it) for just $30 more year.

    I wanted rcs1000, but my wife said "no".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    In California, the DMV allows you have whatever plate you like (so long as no-one else has it) for just $30 more year.

    I wanted rcs1000, but my wife said "no".
    You only have one car? How very un-American. ;)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    For some reason people like kinablu expect all schools to be the same. Which would entail all teachers being the same. I always wonder if people with these views think so little of teachers they expect them to be mere identikit robots rather than have any humanity, skill, intelligence, empathy or other personal qualities that matter.

    Not at all. This is really not where I'm coming from. I want all schools to be the same (and high) STANDARD. Not 100% possible, of course, but this should be the goal to work towards. It does not mean the same. I'm off analogies atm but just to use one here which is apt. There are different ways to skin a cat - this is so true that it's become a saying - but the end result (if done well and properly) will look broadly similar.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    This morning I went into an independent coffee shop and was confronted with a menu with a string of items that I hadn't heard of. Am I pig ignorant for not knowing what a "half and half" or a "Lawson" is?
    Does the “Lawson*” come with a “big bang” and a “boom” a few minutes later?

    (*If it’s the other one, maybe you just wink at the camera and drizzle it over your breast instead)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    kinabalu said:

    For some reason people like kinablu expect all schools to be the same. Which would entail all teachers being the same. I always wonder if people with these views think so little of teachers they expect them to be mere identikit robots rather than have any humanity, skill, intelligence, empathy or other personal qualities that matter.

    Not at all. This is really not where I'm coming from. I want all schools to be the same (and high) STANDARD. Not 100% possible, of course, but this should be the goal to work towards. It does not mean the same. I'm off analogies atm but just to use one here which is apt. There are different ways to skin a cat - this is so true that it's become a saying - but the end result (if done well and properly) will look broadly similar.
    One of the issues that schools face is that different classes or year groups are different. One lot will be generally studious and biddable, the next year's more rowdy.
    All the teachers in my family ...... and there are lots, of different age.......have told me the same.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    Update on Trump's impeachment.
    All signs point to an acquital vote by Saturday morning.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    speedy2 said:

    Update on Trump's impeachment.
    All signs point to an acquital vote by Saturday morning.

    Are we getting witnesses?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,625
    edited January 2020
    kinabalu said:

    For some reason people like kinablu expect all schools to be the same. Which would entail all teachers being the same. I always wonder if people with these views think so little of teachers they expect them to be mere identikit robots rather than have any humanity, skill, intelligence, empathy or other personal qualities that matter.

    Not at all. This is really not where I'm coming from. I want all schools to be the same (and high) STANDARD. Not 100% possible, of course, but this should be the goal to work towards. It does not mean the same. I'm off analogies atm but just to use one here which is apt. There are different ways to skin a cat - this is so true that it's become a saying - but the end result (if done well and properly) will look broadly similar.
    That only works if you’re in favour of what the Americans call “busing” in the meantime.

    Each child in London gets assigned to a random school in London, and is provided with transport to get there. No exceptions, and no discussions between parents and schools in advance of admission.

    You’re in favour of this, or are you in favour of allowing the already wealthy to keep the catchment areas around their own excellent state schools?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited January 2020
    kinabalu said:

    For some reason people like kinablu expect all schools to be the same. Which would entail all teachers being the same. I always wonder if people with these views think so little of teachers they expect them to be mere identikit robots rather than have any humanity, skill, intelligence, empathy or other personal qualities that matter.

    Not at all. This is really not where I'm coming from. I want all schools to be the same (and high) STANDARD. Not 100% possible, of course, but this should be the goal to work towards. It does not mean the same. I'm off analogies atm but just to use one here which is apt. There are different ways to skin a cat - this is so true that it's become a saying - but the end result (if done well and properly) will look broadly similar.
    So you want to take all initiative, variance, special abilities and uniqueness away from teachers then? And make them all bog STANDARD?

    That's the only way to make them all the same standard. Factory formed homogenous products can be standardised, teachers can't unless you strip them of everything unique.

    I value unique and dedicated teachers. Why don't you?

    Standard is not a good word. I value the exceptional.
  • speedy2 said:

    Update on Trump's impeachment.
    All signs point to an acquital vote by Saturday morning.

    Just in time for his State of the Union address due Tuesday night
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    kinabalu said:

    Sandpit said:

    The Mail are good at finding people who “struggle” to “cope” on six figure salaries living in Surrey, what with the massive mortgage, three sets of SCHOOL FEES and the skiing holiday to pay for...

    Indeed. These take up a big slice of income for many struggling affluents. Their removal would be tantamount to a massive middle class tax break. Much more left in pocket and available for holidays, cars, vintage wines, cashmere sweaters, whatever. This is why the elimination of private schools is not Class War but a genuine "win win" One Nation policy.
    I don’t think it is. It would divert a lot of resources within the economy from the education sector (that pays for teachers, labs, sports facilities etc, and cross-subsidies the state places it abdicates) into consumption.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    Endillion said:

    alterego said:

    RobD said:

    alterego said:

    glw said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    I believe Morris Dancer likes a coin? Better snap up a gold 50p piece before the sovvy ring brigade snaffle them all.

    https://twitter.com/Feorlean/status/1222806123935346692?s=20

    How much does it weigh?

    I’m gonna take a random guess that the price isn’t a million miles away from today’s gold price.
    I'm going to take a random guess that it is at least 10 times its scrap value as gold. The whole point is to make a profit from collectors and you can't do that buy selling below cost.
    15.5g of 22 carat gold is about £600.
    A bit like the Lottery and DVLA selling personalised Number Plates - a voluntary tax.
    I don't know what people are complaining about, there are far worse ways of wasting money, a lot of jewellery and luxury goods have much higher mark-ups.
    What use of gold makes it worth what it is? Why do many world governments hoard it?
    Its rarity.
    My shit is rare - any offers?
    Does it come in "brilliant uncirculated"?
    Polished at least..
    You seem very excited.

    How many times have you ‘polished’ your own ‘coin’ over that opinion poll this afternoon so far?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    edited January 2020

    One of the issues that schools face is that different classes or year groups are different. One lot will be generally studious and biddable, the next year's more rowdy.
    All the teachers in my family ...... and there are lots, of different age.......have told me the same.

    Yes. All makes for a very difficult job. One that adds real value too. If I was Schools Czar, I would up the pay, plus higher pay for the "harder" environments, make it a high status, difficult to get into profession - like medicine - and then I would allow absolutely loads of autonomy at individual school level. All state schools but no heavy hand of the state. Let those teachers teach. Every child goes to a high quality state school that's close to them. And given other policies will "level up" regions and areas, this means that every child, regardless of parental means, has at least a reasonably equal shot at entering adulthood with a following wind. The best of all things in the best of all possible worlds. Ah bisto.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    kinabalu said:

    If you're used to it, maybe you should engage in less politics of envy?

    Hmm, but that's easier said than done because that label - or Class War - tends to get attached to any idea which has a halfway decent chance of diversifying wealth and opportunity away from those on the right side of our current MO to those on the wrong side of it.
    I'll just repost this from the previous thread about the Guardian's video on abolition:

    Utterly bonkers.

    For the Left to threaten private education provokes the same kind of emotional reaction as if the Right were threatening the NHS. You're going to get nuclear-level pushback for minimal political gain. Want a Tory vote stuck at 40%+ indefinitely? Then have Labour push spiteful class war policies like this one.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    HYUFD said:

    Too late for the last, more appropriate thread.

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1222871376111054848?s=20

    Irrelevant as Boris has made clear he will block indyref2 for his full 5 year term.

    (Of course a Yougov poll had Yes ahead in 2014 too anyway)

    Yah boo sucks, you're not getting a referendum so who cares - check
    Cast half arsed aspersions on the pollster - check
    No one wants more disruptive uncertainty from the SNP, that's the Tories' job - ?
    Once in a generation promise - ?
    Send in the troops - ?

    Just setting up some more options for the HYUFD rapid rebuttal team.
    I bet what you’re secretly gagging for is ‘send in the troops’.

    You could rip your shirt off your scrawny chest to reveal the smudged tartan tattooed underneath and do your full Mel Gibson routine.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    marke0903 said:

    speedy2 said:

    Update on Trump's impeachment.
    All signs point to an acquital vote by Saturday morning.

    Just in time for his State of the Union address due Tuesday night
    And the Iowa caucuses on Monday night
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    Yet curators average only £37 500 in London.

    The average London salary is £700 a month ie £36 400

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/economy-business/work-incomes/constituency-data-wages/
    And yet the Daily Mail tells us that folk on £100k are "Middle Class".
    Well, as opposed to what?
    Where the 'middle' is ?
    I wouldn't say people on £100k are the epitome of middle class, but how else would you classify them, other than middle class?
    Absolutely not the middle as that excuses them for not recognising that they are absolutely at the top end of income.

    So upper / Top or anything other than middle as suggesting that is 'middle' makes them feel that they are not hugely privileged.
    I think we're talking at crossed purposes here. Clearly it's an upper tier salary. My point is that it doesn't make a person "upper class".

    I earn over 100k and live in London. I'm also mortgaged to the hilt on a 2 bed flat. I definitely am not anyone's idea of upper class, even by @kinabalu's weird description.
    Accidentally watched an episode of Question Time recently, where there was spat between Richard Burgon and an audience member. Burgon said that anyone earning over £80k was well off, and the audience member said that he was lying; he earned that and wasn't, and that every solicitor or doctor earned more than that. Burgon said that when he practised a solicitor he earned half of that.

    I didn't see/hear how it ended.
    Firstly, Richard Burgon has clearly never heard of inflation.
    Secondly, that probably tells you how good Richard Burgon was as a solicitor.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Man convicted of trying to steal Magna Carta from Salisbury Cathedral
  • kinabalu said:

    One of the issues that schools face is that different classes or year groups are different. One lot will be generally studious and biddable, the next year's more rowdy.
    All the teachers in my family ...... and there are lots, of different age.......have told me the same.

    Yes. All makes for a very difficult job. One that adds real value too. If I was Schools Czar, I would up the pay, plus higher pay for the "harder" environments, make it a high status, difficult to get into profession - like medicine - and then I would allow absolutely loads of autonomy at individual school level. All state schools but no heavy hand of the state. Let those teachers teach. Every child goes to a high quality state school that's close to them. And given other policies will "level up" regions and areas, this means that every child, regardless of parental means, has at least a reasonably equal shot at entering adulthood with a following wind. The best of all things in the best of all possible worlds. Ah bisto.
    Loads of autonomy? So not standardised then?

    And since you want to keep children going to schools close to them I assume you're keeping catchment areas.

    So therefore the richest parents will be able to buy their way into the best schools via buying a home in the catchment area.

    Great job! Your ambition of having great schools for everyone is one I share, just strip away the envy.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    kinabalu said:

    For some reason people like kinablu expect all schools to be the same. Which would entail all teachers being the same. I always wonder if people with these views think so little of teachers they expect them to be mere identikit robots rather than have any humanity, skill, intelligence, empathy or other personal qualities that matter.

    Not at all. This is really not where I'm coming from. I want all schools to be the same (and high) STANDARD. Not 100% possible, of course, but this should be the goal to work towards. It does not mean the same. I'm off analogies atm but just to use one here which is apt. There are different ways to skin a cat - this is so true that it's become a saying - but the end result (if done well and properly) will look broadly similar.
    I see it differently.

    I favour maximising diversity and choice in the education sector, because it’s by that mechanism that we encourage innovation and flexibility so we can raise overall education standards for the maximum number of child as high as possible as broadly as possible.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    For some reason people like kinablu expect all schools to be the same. Which would entail all teachers being the same. I always wonder if people with these views think so little of teachers they expect them to be mere identikit robots rather than have any humanity, skill, intelligence, empathy or other personal qualities that matter.

    Not at all. This is really not where I'm coming from. I want all schools to be the same (and high) STANDARD. Not 100% possible, of course, but this should be the goal to work towards. It does not mean the same. I'm off analogies atm but just to use one here which is apt. There are different ways to skin a cat - this is so true that it's become a saying - but the end result (if done well and properly) will look broadly similar.
    That only works if you’re in favour of what the Americans call “busing” in the meantime.

    Each child in London gets assigned to a random school in London, and is provided with transport to get there. No exceptions, and no discussions between parents and schools in advance of admission.

    You’re in favour of this, or are you in favour of allowing the already wealthy to keep the catchment areas around their own excellent state schools?
    It is an absolutely rubbish argument, you may as well ban Marks and Spencer and Waitrose and bus all customers to their nearest Lidl or Asda (and at least private schools provide scholarships and bursaries).

    In any case vouchers are now more in favour from Sweden to the US to allow real choice not one size fits all
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    llef said:

    good news for the UK's electric van maker Arrival

    "UPS announced Wednesday investments in electric trucks, the testing of self-driving vans and the construction of a new “super hub” as part of its efforts to capitalize on the growth of e-commerce.

    UPS, which sees electric vehicles as a key part of its sustainability efforts, will purchase 10,000 electric vehicles from U.K.-based startup Arrival and take a minority stake in the company. The financial details were not disclosed."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/29/ups-is-eyeing-a-driverless-and-electric-future-for-its-fleet.html?__source=twitter|main

    That's amazingly good news.
    Never heard of them before but that's fantastic. :)
    Russian billionaire startup, with recent investment form Korean manufacturers. Promising.
    There had been a degree of scepticism in the EV space about them, as they had been very good at showing renders of their vehicles, but didn't have a single preproduction demo vehicle.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    Maybe stop trying to diversify wealth away from anyone then and instead try and enable others to grow their own wealth?

    That sounds like a folksy piece of "give a man a fish?" type sentiment. You can't have all winners, I'm afraid. You can't make a serious dent in inequality without being prepared to remove unfair advantage from those who currently have it. To govern is to choose.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    kinabalu said:

    One of the issues that schools face is that different classes or year groups are different. One lot will be generally studious and biddable, the next year's more rowdy.
    All the teachers in my family ...... and there are lots, of different age.......have told me the same.

    Yes. All makes for a very difficult job. One that adds real value too. If I was Schools Czar, I would up the pay, plus higher pay for the "harder" environments, make it a high status, difficult to get into profession - like medicine - and then I would allow absolutely loads of autonomy at individual school level. All state schools but no heavy hand of the state. Let those teachers teach. Every child goes to a high quality state school that's close to them. And given other policies will "level up" regions and areas, this means that every child, regardless of parental means, has at least a reasonably equal shot at entering adulthood with a following wind. The best of all things in the best of all possible worlds. Ah bisto.
    What does "loads of autonomy" mean with respect to the schools in Birmingham who don't want to cover certain aspects of the current SRE curriculum?
  • kinabalu said:

    For some reason people like kinablu expect all schools to be the same. Which would entail all teachers being the same. I always wonder if people with these views think so little of teachers they expect them to be mere identikit robots rather than have any humanity, skill, intelligence, empathy or other personal qualities that matter.

    Not at all. This is really not where I'm coming from. I want all schools to be the same (and high) STANDARD. Not 100% possible, of course, but this should be the goal to work towards. It does not mean the same. I'm off analogies atm but just to use one here which is apt. There are different ways to skin a cat - this is so true that it's become a saying - but the end result (if done well and properly) will look broadly similar.
    I see it differently.

    I favour maximising diversity and choice in the education sector, because it’s by that mechanism that we encourage innovation and flexibility so we can raise overall education standards for the maximum number of child as high as possible as broadly as possible.
    Absolutely. It will also improve innovation and competition.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,625
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    llef said:

    good news for the UK's electric van maker Arrival

    "UPS announced Wednesday investments in electric trucks, the testing of self-driving vans and the construction of a new “super hub” as part of its efforts to capitalize on the growth of e-commerce.

    UPS, which sees electric vehicles as a key part of its sustainability efforts, will purchase 10,000 electric vehicles from U.K.-based startup Arrival and take a minority stake in the company. The financial details were not disclosed."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/29/ups-is-eyeing-a-driverless-and-electric-future-for-its-fleet.html?__source=twitter|main

    That's amazingly good news.
    Never heard of them before but that's fantastic. :)
    Russian billionaire startup, with recent investment form Korean manufacturers. Promising.
    There had been a degree of scepticism in the EV space about them, as they had been very good at showing renders of their vehicles, but didn't have a single preproduction demo vehicle.
    I’d never heard of them before today either, which surprised me.

    How much of today’s announcement is an actual order for actual vehicles, and how much is investment by UPS to get the tech to market?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    kinabalu said:

    For some reason people like kinablu expect all schools to be the same. Which would entail all teachers being the same. I always wonder if people with these views think so little of teachers they expect them to be mere identikit robots rather than have any humanity, skill, intelligence, empathy or other personal qualities that matter.

    Not at all. This is really not where I'm coming from. I want all schools to be the same (and high) STANDARD. Not 100% possible, of course, but this should be the goal to work towards. It does not mean the same. I'm off analogies atm but just to use one here which is apt. There are different ways to skin a cat - this is so true that it's become a saying - but the end result (if done well and properly) will look broadly similar.
    Yes, ban all outstanding schools and make all schools inadequate
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    edited January 2020
    Endillion said:

    What does "loads of autonomy" mean with respect to the schools in Birmingham who don't want to cover certain aspects of the current SRE curriculum?

    Ah, indeed. No, not on that sort of thing. They will have to abide by our core principles of respect for all.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,625
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    For some reason people like kinablu expect all schools to be the same. Which would entail all teachers being the same. I always wonder if people with these views think so little of teachers they expect them to be mere identikit robots rather than have any humanity, skill, intelligence, empathy or other personal qualities that matter.

    Not at all. This is really not where I'm coming from. I want all schools to be the same (and high) STANDARD. Not 100% possible, of course, but this should be the goal to work towards. It does not mean the same. I'm off analogies atm but just to use one here which is apt. There are different ways to skin a cat - this is so true that it's become a saying - but the end result (if done well and properly) will look broadly similar.
    That only works if you’re in favour of what the Americans call “busing” in the meantime.

    Each child in London gets assigned to a random school in London, and is provided with transport to get there. No exceptions, and no discussions between parents and schools in advance of admission.

    You’re in favour of this, or are you in favour of allowing the already wealthy to keep the catchment areas around their own excellent state schools?
    It is an absolutely rubbish argument, you may as well ban Marks and Spencer and Waitrose and bus all customers to their nearest Lidl or Asda (and at least private schools provide scholarships and bursaries).

    In any case vouchers are now more in favour from Sweden to the US to allow real choice not one size fits all
    Yes, parents should choose schools, not the other way around.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    llef said:

    good news for the UK's electric van maker Arrival

    "UPS announced Wednesday investments in electric trucks, the testing of self-driving vans and the construction of a new “super hub” as part of its efforts to capitalize on the growth of e-commerce.

    UPS, which sees electric vehicles as a key part of its sustainability efforts, will purchase 10,000 electric vehicles from U.K.-based startup Arrival and take a minority stake in the company. The financial details were not disclosed."

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/29/ups-is-eyeing-a-driverless-and-electric-future-for-its-fleet.html?__source=twitter|main

    That's amazingly good news.
    Never heard of them before but that's fantastic. :)
    Russian billionaire startup, with recent investment form Korean manufacturers. Promising.
    There had been a degree of scepticism in the EV space about them, as they had been very good at showing renders of their vehicles, but didn't have a single preproduction demo vehicle.
    " It now has 800 employees in the UK, Europe, and the United States. It has developed the skateboard that serves as a foundation for its vehicles in-house and says it can design new models for as little as £100 million whereas other companies require an investment of £1 billion or more to do the same thing. Gaining access to the manufacturing technology is one of the benefits Hyundai and KIA will get from their investment."
    https://cleantechnica.com/2020/01/21/hyundai-kia-invest-in-uk-electric-van-maker-arrival/
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Sandpit said:

    Tate Britain defends job ad for £40k 'head of coffee'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51310516

    Seems rather low paid for London to me....

    The job role is likely to be more of a food and beverage director, in charge of all the coffee shops at the galleries. In which case the salary’s about right.

    It’s an art gallery, of course they use fancy-pants titles - and they just got better publicity and reach for their vacancy than a load of paid adverts would have done. Marketing 101.
    Head of Coffee at the Tate, you say.

    Hmmm..... I like and collect art. Son has a History of Art degree. So free advice on tap, as it were.

    Critically, I know what makes a good cup of coffee and what doesn’t.

    Finally, my chance to make a difference ....... 😊
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    I think this is code from the new Speaker that the peerage for John Bercow can go do one:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51311862
  • kinabalu said:

    One of the issues that schools face is that different classes or year groups are different. One lot will be generally studious and biddable, the next year's more rowdy.
    All the teachers in my family ...... and there are lots, of different age.......have told me the same.

    Yes. All makes for a very difficult job. One that adds real value too. If I was Schools Czar, I would up the pay, plus higher pay for the "harder" environments, make it a high status, difficult to get into profession - like medicine - and then I would allow absolutely loads of autonomy at individual school level. All state schools but no heavy hand of the state. Let those teachers teach. Every child goes to a high quality state school that's close to them. And given other policies will "level up" regions and areas, this means that every child, regardless of parental means, has at least a reasonably equal shot at entering adulthood with a following wind. The best of all things in the best of all possible worlds. Ah bisto.
    You have just described a recipe for some schools being better than others.
    The other issue is more fundamental: how can you ban people paying for education? The often quoted figure of 7% is a huge underestimate of the proportion of the population that pay for some education; there are private tutors, after school groups, revision courses, and so on. This will not stop just because you shut down Eton.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    It seems the UK and US have agreed a truce over Huawei:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51313481

    One doesn’t half wonder if this is all carefully choreographed sometimes.

    It very probably is.
  • HYUFD said:

    Too late for the last, more appropriate thread.

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1222871376111054848?s=20

    Irrelevant as Boris has made clear he will block indyref2 for his full 5 year term.

    (Of course a Yougov poll had Yes ahead in 2014 too anyway)

    Yah boo sucks, you're not getting a referendum so who cares - check
    Cast half arsed aspersions on the pollster - check
    No one wants more disruptive uncertainty from the SNP, that's the Tories' job - ?
    Once in a generation promise - ?
    Send in the troops - ?

    Just setting up some more options for the HYUFD rapid rebuttal team.
    I bet what you’re secretly gagging for is ‘send in the troops’.

    You could rip your shirt off your scrawny chest to reveal the smudged tartan tattooed underneath and do your full Mel Gibson routine.
    Jeezo, someone points out you're a bit of a diddy on the internet and you're still snivelling 20 hours later. At least tone down the 'biting' invective, even Jim Davidson would be embarrassed by it.
  • kinabalu said:

    Maybe stop trying to diversify wealth away from anyone then and instead try and enable others to grow their own wealth?

    That sounds like a folksy piece of "give a man a fish?" type sentiment. You can't have all winners, I'm afraid. You can't make a serious dent in inequality without being prepared to remove unfair advantage from those who currently have it. To govern is to choose.
    What you have said is obviously true, but that is because you have focused on inequality while Mr Thompson is talking about poverty.

    You also seem to assume that everyone else has the same definition of unfair advantage as you do.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    HYUFD said:

    Too late for the last, more appropriate thread.

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1222871376111054848?s=20

    Irrelevant as Boris has made clear he will block indyref2 for his full 5 year term.

    (Of course a Yougov poll had Yes ahead in 2014 too anyway)

    Yah boo sucks, you're not getting a referendum so who cares - check
    Cast half arsed aspersions on the pollster - check
    No one wants more disruptive uncertainty from the SNP, that's the Tories' job - ?
    Once in a generation promise - ?
    Send in the troops - ?

    Just setting up some more options for the HYUFD rapid rebuttal team.
    I bet what you’re secretly gagging for is ‘send in the troops’.

    You could rip your shirt off your scrawny chest to reveal the smudged tartan tattooed underneath and do your full Mel Gibson routine.
    Jeezo, someone points out you're a bit of a diddy on the internet and you're still snivelling 20 hours later. At least tone down the 'biting' invective, even Jim Davidson would be embarrassed by it.
    Stop the clock!

    You’ve spent 16 minutes sweating over several redrafts of that “put down” on your notepad before responding.

    I’d have spent a bit longer on it myself.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    I see it differently.

    I favour maximising diversity and choice in the education sector, because it’s by that mechanism that we encourage innovation and flexibility so we can raise overall education standards for the maximum number of child as high as possible as broadly as possible.

    Fair enough. But that is to accept that parental financial muscle will play a big role in a child's schooling. It allows people who can afford it to buy a "better start in life" for their kids compared to others. They can - and will - do that anyway in other ways but this is to allow money to talk in educational matters too. It's important to be honest about this. You are prioritizing diversity and choice (for some) - and the right of every freeborn Englishman to spend his or her hard earned (or otherwise) money as they see fit - above equal opportunities. It's a VALUE judgement you have made and I make the opposite one. No right or wrong. Difference in values. We could talk about this for ever and that would always be where we end up. I know this because I have often done it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,625
    kinabalu said:

    I see it differently.

    I favour maximising diversity and choice in the education sector, because it’s by that mechanism that we encourage innovation and flexibility so we can raise overall education standards for the maximum number of child as high as possible as broadly as possible.

    Fair enough. But that is to accept that parental financial muscle will play a big role in a child's schooling. It allows people who can afford it to buy a "better start in life" for their kids compared to others. They can - and will - do that anyway in other ways but this is to allow money to talk in educational matters too. It's important to be honest about this. You are prioritizing diversity and choice (for some) - and the right of every freeborn Englishman to spend his or her hard earned (or otherwise) money as they see fit - above equal opportunities. It's a VALUE judgement you have made and I make the opposite one. No right or wrong. Difference in values. We could talk about this for ever and that would always be where we end up. I know this because I have often done it.
    So, you’re in favour of “busing”?
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited January 2020
    kinabalu said:

    I see it differently.

    I favour maximising diversity and choice in the education sector, because it’s by that mechanism that we encourage innovation and flexibility so we can raise overall education standards for the maximum number of child as high as possible as broadly as possible.

    Fair enough. But that is to accept that parental financial muscle will play a big role in a child's schooling. It allows people who can afford it to buy a "better start in life" for their kids compared to others. They can - and will - do that anyway in other ways but this is to allow money to talk in educational matters too. It's important to be honest about this. You are prioritizing diversity and choice (for some) - and the right of every freeborn Englishman to spend his or her hard earned (or otherwise) money as they see fit - above equal opportunities. It's a VALUE judgement you have made and I make the opposite one. No right or wrong. Difference in values. We could talk about this for ever and that would always be where we end up. I know this because I have often done it.
    No right or wrong? Perhaps. But one side definitely suits the British character, whereas the other ... does not.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,769
    Nandy is a class act:


    "Nandy quips: “Sorry, this is the worst backstory… I know I was meant to say ‘I was born into abject poverty and held myself up by my bootstraps’.” "

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/lisa-nandy-labour-leadership-brexit-piers-morgan-a4348971.html
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    I'm (sort of) following the education discussion and wondering how Ydoethyr has got on with his interview.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    kinabalu said:

    I see it differently.

    I favour maximising diversity and choice in the education sector, because it’s by that mechanism that we encourage innovation and flexibility so we can raise overall education standards for the maximum number of child as high as possible as broadly as possible.

    Fair enough. But that is to accept that parental financial muscle will play a big role in a child's schooling. It allows people who can afford it to buy a "better start in life" for their kids compared to others. They can - and will - do that anyway in other ways but this is to allow money to talk in educational matters too. It's important to be honest about this. You are prioritizing diversity and choice (for some) - and the right of every freeborn Englishman to spend his or her hard earned (or otherwise) money as they see fit - above equal opportunities. It's a VALUE judgement you have made and I make the opposite one. No right or wrong. Difference in values. We could talk about this for ever and that would always be where we end up. I know this because I have often done it.
    IQ is largely inherited anyway, as Prince Harry showed just because your parents can afford to send you to go to Eton does not mean you will become Stephen Hawking.

    However if you are a bright pupil of modest parental means you may be able to get a scholarship or bursary to Eton which really could change your life
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    I see it differently.

    I favour maximising diversity and choice in the education sector, because it’s by that mechanism that we encourage innovation and flexibility so we can raise overall education standards for the maximum number of child as high as possible as broadly as possible.

    Fair enough. But that is to accept that parental financial muscle will play a big role in a child's schooling. It allows people who can afford it to buy a "better start in life" for their kids compared to others. They can - and will - do that anyway in other ways but this is to allow money to talk in educational matters too. It's important to be honest about this. You are prioritizing diversity and choice (for some) - and the right of every freeborn Englishman to spend his or her hard earned (or otherwise) money as they see fit - above equal opportunities. It's a VALUE judgement you have made and I make the opposite one. No right or wrong. Difference in values. We could talk about this for ever and that would always be where we end up. I know this because I have often done it.
    So, you’re in favour of “busing”?
    He is in favour of communism, just starting off with education
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    I think this is code from the new Speaker that the peerage for John Bercow can go do one:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51311862

    I thought "that's welcome" - then realised he wasn't talking about behaviour of MPs.
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