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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Irish General Election 2020 : Predictions & Review, Part One

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  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited January 2020

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    It's an interesting mix - in London for example, big improvements. Derby, North Lincolnshire, Swindon & Nottingham are very very bad.
    The improvements in London predated the Gove reforms.
    Trying to get useful data seems to be a bit of stretch, but we are talking about the last 5 years here, aren't we?
    No, it was the London Challenge that made the difference - and the results have been apparent for 10 years or more.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    It would be so funny if Trump were to win the popular vote but lose the electoral college. With the rustbelt states flipping, of course ...

    It would - but the downside is he would refuse to concede. Could get messy.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,381
    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Just as well they aren’t actually reading the news and focussing their fire intelligently.* This story is just beyond extraordinary (not least that the officers who carried out this kidnap face no charges):

    Man wrongfully arrested given £100k compensation by police
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-51255287

    In nine years, it’s difficult to think of anything to do with Police Scotland that hasn’t been an utter fiasco. At what point will the SNP admit Police Scotland has been the most epic law enforcement clusterfuck since the Keystone Cops and replace it in its entirety with new local forces?

    *Although this does of course partly explain why the SNP are getting away with a dismal domestic record.
    "Learning opportunities..."
    I could teach them, I think.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:
    Which is irrelevant as the Republican controlled Senate will decide, the voters do not get consulted until November
    Just checking, if 90% of the American population wanted Trump removed from office would you call that irrelevant?
    Until election day yes unless the opposition party controlled both chambers of Congress
    You don't think that in those circumstances Senate Republicans might think twice about how they vote in the trial? Different era, but are you surprised that Nixon resigned in 1974?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    kinabalu said:

    It would be so funny if Trump were to win the popular vote but lose the electoral college. With the rustbelt states flipping, of course ...

    It would - but the downside is he would refuse to concede. Could get messy.
    Then we would have to join the EU and impose sanctions, backed up with the threat of armed intervention to secure regime change. That's how we deal with these matters in the West, isn't it?
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    kinabalu said:

    It would be so funny if Trump were to win the popular vote but lose the electoral college. With the rustbelt states flipping, of course ...

    It would - but the downside is he would refuse to concede. Could get messy.
    I think that will happen in any circumstances where he loses.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited January 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Just as well they aren’t actually reading the news and focussing their fire intelligently.* This story is just beyond extraordinary (not least that the officers who carried out this kidnap face no charges):

    Man wrongfully arrested given £100k compensation by police
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-51255287

    In nine years, it’s difficult to think of anything to do with Police Scotland that hasn’t been an utter fiasco. At what point will the SNP admit Police Scotland has been the most epic law enforcement clusterfuck since the Keystone Cops and replace it in its entirety with new local forces?

    *Although this does of course partly explain why the SNP are getting away with a dismal domestic record.
    Police Scotland are simply copying the incompetence of their English brethren, as outlined by me, ad nauseam ..... see also the front page of yesterday’s Times.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Just as well they aren’t actually reading the news and focussing their fire intelligently.* This story is just beyond extraordinary (not least that the officers who carried out this kidnap face no charges):

    Man wrongfully arrested given £100k compensation by police
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-51255287

    In nine years, it’s difficult to think of anything to do with Police Scotland that hasn’t been an utter fiasco. At what point will the SNP admit Police Scotland has been the most epic law enforcement clusterfuck since the Keystone Cops and replace it in its entirety with new local forces?

    *Although this does of course partly explain why the SNP are getting away with a dismal domestic record.
    Police Scotland are simply copying the incompetence of their English brethren, as outlined by me, ad nausea ...... see also the front page of yesterday’s Times.
    Kidnapping somebody and holding them for three days before trying to cover up what had happened using even more highly illegal methods is - fortunately - not that common in England.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,381
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Just as well they aren’t actually reading the news and focussing their fire intelligently.* This story is just beyond extraordinary (not least that the officers who carried out this kidnap face no charges):

    Man wrongfully arrested given £100k compensation by police
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-51255287

    In nine years, it’s difficult to think of anything to do with Police Scotland that hasn’t been an utter fiasco. At what point will the SNP admit Police Scotland has been the most epic law enforcement clusterfuck since the Keystone Cops and replace it in its entirety with new local forces?

    *Although this does of course partly explain why the SNP are getting away with a dismal domestic record.
    Police Scotland are simply copying the incompetence of their English brethren, as outlined by me, ad nauseam ..... see also the front page of yesterday’s Times.
    Come now - copying? No. They are repeating the behaviour of their fellow UK officers.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,381
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Just as well they aren’t actually reading the news and focussing their fire intelligently.* This story is just beyond extraordinary (not least that the officers who carried out this kidnap face no charges):

    Man wrongfully arrested given £100k compensation by police
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-51255287

    In nine years, it’s difficult to think of anything to do with Police Scotland that hasn’t been an utter fiasco. At what point will the SNP admit Police Scotland has been the most epic law enforcement clusterfuck since the Keystone Cops and replace it in its entirety with new local forces?

    *Although this does of course partly explain why the SNP are getting away with a dismal domestic record.
    Police Scotland are simply copying the incompetence of their English brethren, as outlined by me, ad nausea ...... see also the front page of yesterday’s Times.
    Kidnapping somebody and holding them for three days before trying to cover up what had happened using even more highly illegal methods is - fortunately - not that common in England.
    Perhaps they were channeling the spirit of Sir Thomas Moore? I'm thinking of the embarrassing case of the chap who was found not guilty of heresy, but was errrr.... worked on to "save the bishops credit"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:
    Which is irrelevant as the Republican controlled Senate will decide, the voters do not get consulted until November
    Just checking, if 90% of the American population wanted Trump removed from office would you call that irrelevant?
    Until election day yes unless the opposition party controlled both chambers of Congress
    You don't think that in those circumstances Senate Republicans might think twice about how they vote in the trial? Different era, but are you surprised that Nixon resigned in 1974?
    When Nixon resigned both the House and Senate were controlled by big Democratic majorities
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    It does, if it’s correctly implemented.

    But it would be expensive, so it will never happen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Just as well they aren’t actually reading the news and focussing their fire intelligently.* This story is just beyond extraordinary (not least that the officers who carried out this kidnap face no charges):

    Man wrongfully arrested given £100k compensation by police
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-51255287

    In nine years, it’s difficult to think of anything to do with Police Scotland that hasn’t been an utter fiasco. At what point will the SNP admit Police Scotland has been the most epic law enforcement clusterfuck since the Keystone Cops and replace it in its entirety with new local forces?

    *Although this does of course partly explain why the SNP are getting away with a dismal domestic record.
    Police Scotland are simply copying the incompetence of their English brethren, as outlined by me, ad nausea ...... see also the front page of yesterday’s Times.
    Kidnapping somebody and holding them for three days before trying to cover up what had happened using even more highly illegal methods is - fortunately - not that common in England.
    Perhaps they were channeling the spirit of Sir Thomas Moore? I'm thinking of the embarrassing case of the chap who was found not guilty of heresy, but was errrr.... worked on to "save the bishops credit"
    Possibly, although the Guildford Four/Birmingham Six would surely be better parallels.

    However, it’s worrying if their procedures are over fifty years out of date.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,381
    edited January 2020
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Just as well they aren’t actually reading the news and focussing their fire intelligently.* This story is just beyond extraordinary (not least that the officers who carried out this kidnap face no charges):

    Man wrongfully arrested given £100k compensation by police
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-51255287

    In nine years, it’s difficult to think of anything to do with Police Scotland that hasn’t been an utter fiasco. At what point will the SNP admit Police Scotland has been the most epic law enforcement clusterfuck since the Keystone Cops and replace it in its entirety with new local forces?

    *Although this does of course partly explain why the SNP are getting away with a dismal domestic record.
    Police Scotland are simply copying the incompetence of their English brethren, as outlined by me, ad nausea ...... see also the front page of yesterday’s Times.
    Kidnapping somebody and holding them for three days before trying to cover up what had happened using even more highly illegal methods is - fortunately - not that common in England.
    Perhaps they were channeling the spirit of Sir Thomas Moore? I'm thinking of the embarrassing case of the chap who was found not guilty of heresy, but was errrr.... worked on to "save the bishops credit"
    Possibly, although the Guildford Four/Birmingham Six would surely be better parallels.

    However, it’s worrying if their procedures are over fifty years out of date.
    True. Though if their procedures are 500 years out of date....

    Perhaps the West Midlands Serious Crimes Squad? - of whom I like to misquote Max Beerbohm on another occasion "By God, this squad is well-named!"
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:
    Which is irrelevant as the Republican controlled Senate will decide, the voters do not get consulted until November
    Just checking, if 90% of the American population wanted Trump removed from office would you call that irrelevant?
    Until election day yes unless the opposition party controlled both chambers of Congress
    You don't think that in those circumstances Senate Republicans might think twice about how they vote in the trial? Different era, but are you surprised that Nixon resigned in 1974?
    When Nixon resigned both the House and Senate were controlled by big Democratic majorities
    Not enough to convict on party lines.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    It does, if it’s correctly implemented.

    But it would be expensive, so it will never happen.
    There were middle schools systems in place in a few counties until recently. They were of dubious efficacy. GCSEs are a legacy of most leaving school at 16 I guess.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    alex_ said:

    I think that will happen in any circumstances where he loses.

    Bar a landslide, I do too.

    But the good news is that it WILL be a landslide.

    IMO.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited January 2020
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
    Law firms use them as part 1 sorting hat. I’ve no doubt other professional services firms do as well.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Great header, thanks.
  • FF43 said:
    There's a comma after "peace".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,381
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
    The result of that would be a further increase in the numbers leaving without qualifications.

    There was a recent BBC??? documentary I saw which showed the reality of the "not one GCSE" group. No restructuring will effect their outcomes....
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    matt said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
    Law firms use them as part 1 sorting hat. I’ve no doubt other professional services firms do as well.
    Hmm, we've only ever used degrees and A-levels, or our own take-home tasks. I think the problem was that they were basically worthless as a measure for what kind of aptitude a person had.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    matt said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
    Law firms use them as part 1 sorting hat. I’ve no doubt other professional services firms do as well.
    They do, but they'd be better off not doing so. Given law firms don't recruit until people are midway through university GCSEs are already so distant it's far from clear they benefit the process. If the exams were scrapped it would just save firms from themselves in this case.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:
    Which is irrelevant as the Republican controlled Senate will decide, the voters do not get consulted until November
    Just checking, if 90% of the American population wanted Trump removed from office would you call that irrelevant?
    Until election day yes unless the opposition party controlled both chambers of Congress
    You don't think that in those circumstances Senate Republicans might think twice about how they vote in the trial? Different era, but are you surprised that Nixon resigned in 1974?
    When Nixon resigned both the House and Senate were controlled by big Democratic majorities
    Not enough to convict on party lines.
    In 1972 56 Senators were Democrats, a completely different situation to now where there are just 45 Democratic Senators. It would require about half the Republican Senators to vote to convict which is never going to happen
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Quincel said:

    matt said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
    Law firms use them as part 1 sorting hat. I’ve no doubt other professional services firms do as well.
    They do, but they'd be better off not doing so. Given law firms don't recruit until people are midway through university GCSEs are already so distant it's far from clear they benefit the process. If the exams were scrapped it would just save firms from themselves in this case.
    Even I’m not asked for my GCSE grades now. The maths and English grades have effectively been superseded by the skills tests I did (even though they were absurdly easy).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    matt said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
    Law firms use them as part 1 sorting hat. I’ve no doubt other professional services firms do as well.
    GCSE results tend to be better predictors of IQ than A Levels or Degree class as you have to do English Language, English Literature, Maths and Science unlike A Levels or Degree Level where you can specialise
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Get rid of A levels.
  • FF43 said:
    Melt down all these coins and never speak of this again until the Oxford comma has been added.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    Then we would have to join the EU and impose sanctions, backed up with the threat of armed intervention to secure regime change. That's how we deal with these matters in the West, isn't it?

    Tried and tested.

    With Trump, I have a strong recurring image of how he leaves the White House and it is always in a horizontal position. Either medicated or under restraint.

    I just cannot see it ending in the usual constitutional manner. It would not be fitting.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,769
    FF43 said:
    I am an Oxford Comma nazi, but I don't see the case here. Maybe because the sunday drinks have flowed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    To be honest I think the best reason for leaving things as they are in education is we’ve had 32 years of constant meddling and upheaval. It’s almost impossible to judge the success or failure of any initiative because it’s not left in place for long enough to judge its impact. It also means there is no consistency in the system, and where there is no consistency there can be no rigour.

    Yes, Gove’s reforms have been especially disastrous but it would be better to live with them for ten years and in that time have a proper think about what needs improving. Chaos isn’t good for anyone, least of all the children.
  • FF43 said:
    I am an Oxford Comma nazi, but I don't see the case here. Maybe because the sunday drinks have flowed.
    There should be a comma after 'prosperity' as well.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited January 2020

    FF43 said:
    There's a comma after "peace".
    I think Pullman reckons there should be a comma after "prosperity".

    FWIW I think Pullman is wrong. I have other issues with the coin though.

    Correction, it seems he's right. The full Jefferson quote is " “Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.”
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited January 2020
    Quincel said:

    matt said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
    Law firms use them as part 1 sorting hat. I’ve no doubt other professional services firms do as well.
    They do, but they'd be better off not doing so. Given law firms don't recruit until people are midway through university GCSEs are already so distant it's far from clear they benefit the process. If the exams were scrapped it would just save firms from themselves in this case.
    They could fire their chocolate teapot HR departments, which would be more effective.
  • FF43 said:

    FF43 said:
    There's a comma after "peace".
    I think Pullman reckons there should be a comma after "prosperity".

    FWIW I think Pullman is wrong. I have other issues with the coin though.
    Brexit 50p coins ‘can be sharpened and thrown at the rats trying to steal your last potato’

    https://bit.ly/36rSX9x
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    HYUFD said:

    matt said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
    Law firms use them as part 1 sorting hat. I’ve no doubt other professional services firms do as well.
    GCSE results tend to be better predictors of IQ than A Levels or Degree class as you have to do English Language, Maths and Science unlike A Levels or Degree Level where you can specialise
    IQ is not a predictor of usefulness, MENSA membership is of course a key c**t predictor,
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    OT. 'Cowboys & Aliens' (Daniel Craig, Harrison Ford).

    Cowboys, Indians, Aliens.

    Weird.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    FF43 said:
    Melt down all these coins and never speak of this again until the Oxford comma has been added.
    His grammar is clumsy anyway. I would have said, ‘all literate people should boycott it.’
  • FF43 said:
    I am an Oxford Comma nazi, but I don't see the case here. Maybe because the sunday drinks have flowed.
    Yes the drinks have flowed, you failed to capitalise Sunday.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    FF43 said:
    I am an Oxford Comma nazi, but I don't see the case here. Maybe because the sunday drinks have flowed.
    Yes the drinks have flowed, you failed to capitalise Sunday.
    And ‘Nazi.’

    But you also forgot to use inverted commas for ‘Sunday.’
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited January 2020
    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    alex_ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:
    Which is irrelevant as the Republican controlled Senate will decide, the voters do not get consulted until November
    Just checking, if 90% of the American population wanted Trump removed from office would you call that irrelevant?
    Until election day yes unless the opposition party controlled both chambers of Congress
    You don't think that in those circumstances Senate Republicans might think twice about how they vote in the trial? Different era, but are you surprised that Nixon resigned in 1974?
    When Nixon resigned both the House and Senate were controlled by big Democratic majorities
    Not enough to convict on party lines.
    In 1972 56 Senators were Democrats, a completely different situation to now where there are just 45 Democratic Senators. It would require about half the Republican Senators to vote to convict which is never going to happen
    19/53 vs 8/42.

    However regardless of that, you've ignored the (totally hypothetical) question about whether 90% public support for conviction would result in Senate Republicans taking a significantly different approach to how they vote. Of course its a hypothetical, but you were the one that said that such an unlikely situation would nevertheless still see no difference in outcome. And somewhere in between the current 50% support and 90% support could get interesting.
  • ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:
    I am an Oxford Comma nazi, but I don't see the case here. Maybe because the sunday drinks have flowed.
    Yes the drinks have flowed, you failed to capitalise Sunday.
    And ‘Nazi.’

    But you also forgot to use inverted commas for ‘Sunday.’
    I didn't want to be cruel and point out all the mistakes.
  • FF43 said:
    Melt down all these coins and never speak of this again until the Oxford comma has been added.
    Didn't you go to Cambridge?
  • O/T

    With the new wordpress that powers PB you can set it up to play a music file whenever you're on PB.

    So what do you want the PB theme to be?

    1) Ode to Joy

    2) Never Gonna Give You Up by Rick Astley

    3) I Touch Myself by The Divinyls

    4) I Touch Myself by Scala & Kolancy Brothers
  • FF43 said:
    I am an Oxford Comma nazi, but I don't see the case here. Maybe because the sunday drinks have flowed.
    There should be a comma after 'prosperity' as well.
    Not really. Nelson Mandela and dildos are absent.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
    The result of that would be a further increase in the numbers leaving without qualifications.

    There was a recent BBC??? documentary I saw which showed the reality of the "not one GCSE" group. No restructuring will effect their outcomes....
    Those people get streamed into one of the apprenticeship lines, the school leaving age doesn't change, it's still 18.
  • FF43 said:
    Melt down all these coins and never speak of this again until the Oxford comma has been added.
    Didn't you go to Cambridge?
    I did but the Oxford Comma is the only decent thing to come out of Oxford.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited January 2020
    kinabalu said:

    alex_ said:

    I think that will happen in any circumstances where he loses.

    Bar a landslide, I do too.

    But the good news is that it WILL be a landslide.

    IMO.
    You a layer of Trump at 1.84?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    matt said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
    Law firms use them as part 1 sorting hat. I’ve no doubt other professional services firms do as well.
    Technically yes, but in practice it eliminates very few candidates who wouldn't also fail on either A Levels or degree classification. In my experience you can ignore GCSEs entirely and it makes very little difference.
  • FF43 said:
    Melt down all these coins and never speak of this again until the Oxford comma has been added.
    Didn't you go to Cambridge?
    I did but the Oxford Comma is the only decent thing to come out of Oxford.
    You omitted a comma between "did" and "but".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,381
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Surely if they were more like the Tories, educational standards would be rising?
    The Gove/Cummings reforms seem to have resulted in more pupils leaving school with no qualifications.
    Part of the problem, surely, is that assessing the correct measure for education is hard, and people will have different views as to the right goals for schools. Is it no children without qualifications? Or is proportion with 5 A-Cs? Or is it the educational standards of the top 10%?

    Making your metric proportion of 18 year olds with 5 A-Cs at GCSE, for example, encourages schools to concentrate on those children who wouldn't get over the line without help.

    Ultimately, it needs a sophisticated balanced scorecard approach. Which it's not going to get.
    Which is why the middle school idea makes so much more sense. Get rid of GCSEs entirely and make the age of streaming into the correct path at 14, 15-18 is essentially prolonged A-levels, office based internships or apprenticeships or manual/technical internships or apprenticeships. A-levels gain a lot of rigour, the majority of people get a recognised apprenticeship qualification and actual work experience so they don't leave with nothing.

    It mirrors the highly successful Swiss education system.
    I think that idea has an awful lot of merit.
    The bear part is completely dumping GCSEs, which are clearly the most pointless qualifications in existence in the UK. Literally no one I know has every asked about mine, not for university, not for jobs and I definitely give no fucks about what applicants for jobs got for theirs.

    It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history.
    The result of that would be a further increase in the numbers leaving without qualifications.

    There was a recent BBC??? documentary I saw which showed the reality of the "not one GCSE" group. No restructuring will effect their outcomes....
    Those people get streamed into one of the apprenticeship lines, the school leaving age doesn't change, it's still 18.
    Then they will fail their apprenticeships....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    FF43 said:
    Melt down all these coins and never speak of this again until the Oxford comma has been added.
    Didn't you go to Cambridge?
    I did but the Oxford Comma is the only decent thing to come out of Oxford.
    You omitted a comma between "did" and "but".
    You put the full stop in the wrong place.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    I think the quotation should say: "Prosperity; peace and friendship with all nations".

    Peace isn't quite as much of a binary operation as friendship, but it still takes two to tango.
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 435
    ydoethur said:

    To be honest I think the best reason for leaving things as they are in education is we’ve had 32 years of constant meddling and upheaval. It’s almost impossible to judge the success or failure of any initiative because it’s not left in place for long enough to judge its impact. It also means there is no consistency in the system, and where there is no consistency there can be no rigour.

    Yes, Gove’s reforms have been especially disastrous but it would be better to live with them for ten years and in that time have a proper think about what needs improving. Chaos isn’t good for anyone, least of all the children.

    I agree.

    I wouldn't take this to an extreme. For example, if there are uncontroversial changes which would reduce extraneous burdens on teachers, then the sooner the better. But any sane government should stick to the spirit of what you say.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Will be a test of Shankly's famous maxim.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Kobe Bryant dies in helicopter crash.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
  • tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Calm down.

    Is this even close to the holders not competing in the tournament?

    How much did the FA fine/ban Fergie/Manchester United in 2000?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060

    O/T

    With the new wordpress that powers PB you can set it up to play a music file whenever you're on PB.

    So what do you want the PB theme to be?

    La Marseillaise
  • tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Utter disrespect for the FA cup. It will be interesting if action is taken against an increasingly arrogant Liverpool
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Calm down.

    Is this even close to the holders not competing in the tournament?

    How much did the FA fine/ban Fergie/Manchester United in 2000?
    Man Utd were told to participate in the FIFA Club World Cup because we were bidding for the 2006 World Cup. They were FORCED by the FA to miss the FA Cup 4th Round.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    CatMan said:

    O/T

    With the new wordpress that powers PB you can set it up to play a music file whenever you're on PB.

    So what do you want the PB theme to be?

    La Marseillaise
    A Song for Europe - Roxy Music.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Calm down.

    Is this even close to the holders not competing in the tournament?

    How much did the FA fine/ban Fergie/Manchester United in 2000?
    Man Utd were told to participate in the FIFA Club World Cup because we were bidding for the 2006 World Cup. They were FORCED by the FA to miss the FA Cup 4th Round.
    This fixture pile up is because we were told to play in the Club World Cup.

    Didn’t see anyone defend Liverpool being forced to play two games in 24 hours in two continents.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Utter disrespect for the FA cup. It will be interesting if action is taken against an increasingly arrogant Liverpool
    Unfortunately a lot of the journalists seem to be on Klopp's side. I think it's incredibly sad that the FA Cup has been undermined by the FA themselves these last four years. The moment the QF replays went it was inevitable that the R3 to R5 replays would come under attack. Heck, the FA even gave up weekend slot for R5 this season.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Calm down.

    Is this even close to the holders not competing in the tournament?

    How much did the FA fine/ban Fergie/Manchester United in 2000?
    Man Utd were told to participate in the FIFA Club World Cup because we were bidding for the 2006 World Cup. They were FORCED by the FA to miss the FA Cup 4th Round.
    This fixture pile up is because we were told to play in the Club World Cup.

    Didn’t see anyone defend Liverpool being forced to play two games in 24 hours in two continents.
    What fixture pile up? You've got a (self-inflicted) replay and then 11 days off.

    And no one criticised Liverpool for playing the kids v Aston Villa.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Calm down.

    Is this even close to the holders not competing in the tournament?

    How much did the FA fine/ban Fergie/Manchester United in 2000?
    Man Utd were told to participate in the FIFA Club World Cup because we were bidding for the 2006 World Cup. They were FORCED by the FA to miss the FA Cup 4th Round.
    This fixture pile up is because we were told to play in the Club World Cup.

    Didn’t see anyone defend Liverpool being forced to play two games in 24 hours in two continents.
    What fixture pile up? You've got a (self-inflicted) replay and then 11 days off.

    And no one criticised Liverpool for playing the kids v Aston Villa.
    Yes they did. Have a look at social media at the time of the announcement/during the Villa match.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    IanB2 said:

    OT. 'Cowboys & Aliens' (Daniel Craig, Harrison Ford).

    Cowboys, Indians, Aliens.

    Weird.

    Sure, but you can't fault honesty in advertising.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Calm down.

    Is this even close to the holders not competing in the tournament?

    How much did the FA fine/ban Fergie/Manchester United in 2000?
    Man Utd were told to participate in the FIFA Club World Cup because we were bidding for the 2006 World Cup. They were FORCED by the FA to miss the FA Cup 4th Round.
    This fixture pile up is because we were told to play in the Club World Cup.

    Didn’t see anyone defend Liverpool being forced to play two games in 24 hours in two continents.
    What fixture pile up? You've got a (self-inflicted) replay and then 11 days off.

    And no one criticised Liverpool for playing the kids v Aston Villa.
    I think, technically, calling it "self inflicted" is about as disrespectful to the competition as refusing to take the game seriously in the first place.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited January 2020
    This tradegy is going to monopolise american media for the next few days, politics will be out of the menu there:
    https://twitter.com/WPLGLocal10/status/1221525932650844161

    Bryant and his entire family killed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Utter disrespect for the FA cup. It will be interesting if action is taken against an increasingly arrogant Liverpool
    What are you on about? You have to have sufficient respect for a competition you play in now? Klopp's being a whiner, but I don't see how whinging in turn about respect is a sensible response.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230

    FF43 said:
    Melt down all these coins and never speak of this again until the Oxford comma has been added.
    Didn't you go to Cambridge?
    I did but the Oxford Comma is the only decent thing to come out of Oxford.
    You omitted a comma between "did" and "but".
    All TSE’s comma are belong to Oxford....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Calm down.

    Is this even close to the holders not competing in the tournament?

    How much did the FA fine/ban Fergie/Manchester United in 2000?
    Man Utd were told to participate in the FIFA Club World Cup because we were bidding for the 2006 World Cup. They were FORCED by the FA to miss the FA Cup 4th Round.
    This fixture pile up is because we were told to play in the Club World Cup.

    Didn’t see anyone defend Liverpool being forced to play two games in 24 hours in two continents.
    What fixture pile up? You've got a (self-inflicted) replay and then 11 days off.

    And no one criticised Liverpool for playing the kids v Aston Villa.
    Yes they did. Have a look at social media at the time of the announcement/during the Villa match.
    Right, well I certainly didn't and no one who's opinion I respect criticised them. If you want to see fixture congestion, look at Arsenal's 1979-80 season:

    https://www.11v11.com/teams/arsenal/tab/matches/season/1980/

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    O/T

    With the new wordpress that powers PB you can set it up to play a music file whenever you're on PB.

    So what do you want the PB theme to be?

    1) Ode to Joy

    2) Never Gonna Give You Up by Rick Astley

    3) I Touch Myself by The Divinyls

    4) I Touch Myself by Scala & Kolancy Brothers

    5) Blitzkrieg Bop - The Ramones
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Endillion said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Calm down.

    Is this even close to the holders not competing in the tournament?

    How much did the FA fine/ban Fergie/Manchester United in 2000?
    Man Utd were told to participate in the FIFA Club World Cup because we were bidding for the 2006 World Cup. They were FORCED by the FA to miss the FA Cup 4th Round.
    This fixture pile up is because we were told to play in the Club World Cup.

    Didn’t see anyone defend Liverpool being forced to play two games in 24 hours in two continents.
    What fixture pile up? You've got a (self-inflicted) replay and then 11 days off.

    And no one criticised Liverpool for playing the kids v Aston Villa.
    I think, technically, calling it "self inflicted" is about as disrespectful to the competition as refusing to take the game seriously in the first place.
    There's nothing sadder than seeing a big club hurrying on their star players as it all starts to go wrong. Play the first team, get the tie won at the first attempt.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    speedy2 said:

    This tradegy is going to monopolise american media for the next few days, politics will be out of the menu there:
    https://twitter.com/WPLGLocal10/status/1221525932650844161

    Bryant and his entire family killed.

    Yes, one of the few American sports stars I had just about heard of, RIP.

    Yet another helicopter crash sadly
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited January 2020
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Calm down.

    Is this even close to the holders not competing in the tournament?

    How much did the FA fine/ban Fergie/Manchester United in 2000?
    Man Utd were told to participate in the FIFA Club World Cup because we were bidding for the 2006 World Cup. They were FORCED by the FA to miss the FA Cup 4th Round.
    This fixture pile up is because we were told to play in the Club World Cup.

    Didn’t see anyone defend Liverpool being forced to play two games in 24 hours in two continents.
    What fixture pile up? You've got a (self-inflicted) replay and then 11 days off.

    And no one criticised Liverpool for playing the kids v Aston Villa.
    The FA cup is dull. Cliche, pretend possibilities of shocks (which don’t happen), patronising of lower league supporters and the BBC desperate to promote it for reasons wholly related to their rights.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    A very high turnout being reported in Emilia-Romagna today. Running totals are kept, and the numbers look to around double the 35%ish last time. The absolute minimum required is a win for the left to even start the fightback against the far right, hopefully a good one, Salvini is a politician I fear is genuinely capable of an (anti Islam) Kristalnacht - I cannot think of an UK politician of note in the same ball.park. Even then it would simply be like Labour barely on to the North East against a Tommy Robinson led UKIP.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    Saw 1917 tonight. Intense. Very good. Think the cinematography was good but didn’t quite live up to the hype. The impression was that it was in real time but it wasn’t. Did involve you though.

    Brilliant performance by George MacKay.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    Pro_Rata said:

    A very high turnout being reported in Emilia-Romagna today. Running totals are kept, and the numbers look to around double the 35%ish last time. The absolute minimum required is a win for the left to even start the fightback against the far right, hopefully a good one, Salvini is a politician I fear is genuinely capable of an (anti Islam) Kristalnacht - I cannot think of an UK politician of note in the same ball.park. Even then it would simply be like Labour barely on to the North East against a Tommy Robinson led UKIP.

    Oddly enough a much better result for the centre left in the Burgenland regional election in Austria. The SPD won a majority 19 seats in the 37 seat provincial Parliament with both the OVP and FPO losing ground.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Utter disrespect for the FA cup. It will be interesting if action is taken against an increasingly arrogant Liverpool
    Unfortunately a lot of the journalists seem to be on Klopp's side. I think it's incredibly sad that the FA Cup has been undermined by the FA themselves these last four years. The moment the QF replays went it was inevitable that the R3 to R5 replays would come under attack. Heck, the FA even gave up weekend slot for R5 this season.
    The problem is that in their pursuit of money the Premier League has failed to keep the promise it made when it started: to eventually reduce to 18 teams.
    With 4 fewer fixtures there would be room for the cups.
  • tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Utter disrespect for the FA cup. It will be interesting if action is taken against an increasingly arrogant Liverpool
    Why should the FA Cup command respect? Or the League Cup or anything else.

    If he doesn't respect the FA Cup then maybe the FA should try and make it worthy of respect rather than bemoan a lack of respect. Why should action be taken against Liverpool if they have other priorities?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    DavidL said:

    Saw 1917 tonight. Intense. Very good. Think the cinematography was good but didn’t quite live up to the hype. The impression was that it was in real time but it wasn’t. Did involve you though.

    Brilliant performance by George MacKay.

    It was very very good, wasn't it. But "only" very very good.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    The Kobe Bryant equivalent would be David Beckham surely.
  • stodge said:

    CatMan said:

    O/T

    With the new wordpress that powers PB you can set it up to play a music file whenever you're on PB.

    So what do you want the PB theme to be?

    La Marseillaise
    A Song for Europe - Roxy Music.
    Covered by Dave Gahan of Depeche Mode:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFVn3g8hEGY
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    They really are crap, the dross they have vying to be leader it looks like they will have same fate in England as this type of tripe caused in Scotland. Where do they find these stupid people. You would think they might have some real problems to look at rather than hating a Scottish party given they have 1 MP there and little prospect of increasing their number for the forseeable future
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    TOPPING said:

    The Kobe Bryant equivalent would be David Beckham surely.

    Yes, and Beckham if he'd stayed at Utd for the final years of his career and retired only 2 years ago. But as you say, the same status as a legend of the sport for a particular era. And the same status as a huge personality in the sport, not just a top player.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    Just as well they aren’t actually reading the news and focussing their fire intelligently.* This story is just beyond extraordinary (not least that the officers who carried out this kidnap face no charges):

    Man wrongfully arrested given £100k compensation by police
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-51255287

    In nine years, it’s difficult to think of anything to do with Police Scotland that hasn’t been an utter fiasco. At what point will the SNP admit Police Scotland has been the most epic law enforcement clusterfuck since the Keystone Cops and replace it in its entirety with new local forces?

    *Although this does of course partly explain why the SNP are getting away with a dismal domestic record.
    "Learning opportunities..."
    LOL, why not regale us with the wonderful English police , next to no crimes solved , grooming gangs running amok all over the country, knife murders and stabbings just about the worst in the world.
    Go on I dare you.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Utter disrespect for the FA cup. It will be interesting if action is taken against an increasingly arrogant Liverpool
    Unfortunately a lot of the journalists seem to be on Klopp's side. I think it's incredibly sad that the FA Cup has been undermined by the FA themselves these last four years. The moment the QF replays went it was inevitable that the R3 to R5 replays would come under attack. Heck, the FA even gave up weekend slot for R5 this season.
    The problem is that in their pursuit of money the Premier League has failed to keep the promise it made when it started: to eventually reduce to 18 teams.
    With 4 fewer fixtures there would be room for the cups.
    Actually, I think the bigger issue is that FIFA have stolen an extra weekend and two midweeks in the last decade and more before that. I could live with an 18 team top division, but one could argue, why not go to 16 teams to allow more international and European fixtures?

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Utter disrespect for the FA cup. It will be interesting if action is taken against an increasingly arrogant Liverpool
    Why should the FA Cup command respect? Or the League Cup or anything else.

    If he doesn't respect the FA Cup then maybe the FA should try and make it worthy of respect rather than bemoan a lack of respect. Why should action be taken against Liverpool if they have other priorities?
    Well fine, but Liverpool just shouldn't bother entering them if they feel that way.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    matt said:


    The FA cup is dull. Cliche, pretend possibilities of shocks (which don’t happen), patronising of lower league supporters and the BBC desperate to promote it for reasons wholly related to their rights.

    So what's the solution ?

    The gulf between the top Premiership teams and the rest of the EFL is vast despite what happened today. Even within the Premiership, Liverpool dominate and the top six or seven teams are miles ahead of the rest.

    Could you handicap the very best teams - say Liverpool have to start with a 2-goal deficit against Championship opposition and 3 goals against League One and League Two?

    You could lose the Carabao Cup and have a single competition or have an EFL trophy which would have Championship, L1 and L2 plus perhaps the bottom half of the Premiership.

    In a sense the best sides have, via the Champions League and Europa Cup, valid and meaningful Cup competitions. Perhaps those should be the weekend matches with the League games moved.

    The problem is I suspect every non league, L2 and L1 player would love to play Liverpool, Man City or Chelsea even if they know full well they would lose because that's the experience - the clubs presumably don't mind the benefits of tv coverage.

  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 435
    edited January 2020
    TOPPING said:

    The Kobe Bryant equivalent would be David Beckham surely.

    Except Beckham's heyday was a long time ago. Andy Murray would be closer. Peak visibility within the last decade.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The FA should kick Liverpool out of the Cup and not let them back in until they have a new manager. He is an utter disgrace.
    Calm down.

    Is this even close to the holders not competing in the tournament?

    How much did the FA fine/ban Fergie/Manchester United in 2000?
    Man Utd were told to participate in the FIFA Club World Cup because we were bidding for the 2006 World Cup. They were FORCED by the FA to miss the FA Cup 4th Round.
    This fixture pile up is because we were told to play in the Club World Cup.

    Didn’t see anyone defend Liverpool being forced to play two games in 24 hours in two continents.
    What fixture pile up? You've got a (self-inflicted) replay and then 11 days off.

    And no one criticised Liverpool for playing the kids v Aston Villa.
    Yes they did. Have a look at social media at the time of the announcement/during the Villa match.
    Right, well I certainly didn't and no one who's opinion I respect criticised them. If you want to see fixture congestion, look at Arsenal's 1979-80 season:

    https://www.11v11.com/teams/arsenal/tab/matches/season/1980/

    It isn't the just the number of fixtures, (I'm old enough to remember when matches were played on Christmas Day and Boxing Day) it is the intensity of modern football.

    I think OPTA worked it out that on average Liverpool's 2017/18 team ran 5km more per match than the great Liverpool sides of the 70s and 80s.

    Klopp's (and Guardiola) have been bemoaning the increasing the number of matches the top sides, the club world cup tournament of 2021 is a prime point.

    It is likely that Liverpool and other European sides who play in that tournament will only have six weeks break between July 2021 and June 2023 thanks to the season altering winter world cup.

    Add in the likes of Mane, Salah, and Keita having to play in the Africa Cup of Nations in January 2021 then players are going to suffer badly (or worse).

    Do you think it is any coincidence that high intensity players are dropping like flies during the most intense part of the season. I had high hopes of England doing well in Euro 2020 but with the likes of Kane and Rashford worn down I'm not very confident.

    Klopp's taking a stand for all of football.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    kle4 said:

    Amazing how much 'hate' the SNP, a fairly unremarkable centre left party, inspires.

    https://twitter.com/SocReview/status/1221474027501432832?s=20

    Labour are now more likely to direct venom at the SNP than at whatever latest xenophobe fest Farage has dreamed up.

    I struggle to see why you would genuinely think it is amazing. Nationalist politics inspires a lot of hate, for and against their enemies, even if it is a milder nationalism than some since it is all about identity.
    If you think Scottish Nationalism 'is all about identity' you really haven't being paying attention.
    Yes, Scottish Nationalism is so much better than anyone else's nationalism.....
    Look the brownshirts just cannot help themselves, give us some data on child deaths in England and why they are 250% higher than those in Scotland
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    alex_ said:
    No its during the winter break.

    The agreement was PL teams dont play at all in the winter break

    Klopp is sticking to what was agreed. Shrewsbury or Liverpool a good draw in 5th round.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    @stodge - the ridiculous thing about this is that no one minds too much Liverpool playing the squad players. They're still very good and it gives their opponents an outside chance. And no one would have moaned if Liverpool had played the same sort of team in the replay. But Klopp saying he won't turn up for the game is just bizarre.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    DavidL said:

    Saw 1917 tonight. Intense. Very good. Think the cinematography was good but didn’t quite live up to the hype. The impression was that it was in real time but it wasn’t. Did involve you though.

    Brilliant performance by George MacKay.

    I won't be bothering. Howard Jacobson once described Kubrick as 'all lens and no trousers'. I think it's a description that was actually a bit unfair in the case of Kubrick, but it applies perfectly to Sam Mendes.
This discussion has been closed.