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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB leadership betting: Nandy edges up closer to RLB but Starm

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  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Cyclefree said:

    Rubbish news about Terry Jones, what an awful disease that is.

    There is a lot of it about, as the doctors say. Look how often donations to mental health charities are solicited in funeral notices. It used to be mooted that smoking protected against Parkinson's and dementia, which would be ironic if true.
    Yes, my grandfather got Alzheimer's (although he lived to 91, despite smoking Capstan full strength daily for most of his life). It is very hard on families, who are robbed of the person that they knew, only getting occasional glimpses of their former self.
    I think that if I got it I’d be inclined to do away with myself before I inflicted my decline on my family. Not Dignitas which seems the very opposite of dignified. Disappearing into the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Amalfi or dying in the middle of my garden seem infinitely preferable. At least the final view would be of somewhere beautiful not some grey room.
    I quite fancy the Nicholas Cage route in Leaving Las Vegas.

    Drinking myself to death whilst also having relations with Elizabeth Shue.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Cyclefree said:

    Rubbish news about Terry Jones, what an awful disease that is.

    There is a lot of it about, as the doctors say. Look how often donations to mental health charities are solicited in funeral notices. It used to be mooted that smoking protected against Parkinson's and dementia, which would be ironic if true.
    Yes, my grandfather got Alzheimer's (although he lived to 91, despite smoking Capstan full strength daily for most of his life). It is very hard on families, who are robbed of the person that they knew, only getting occasional glimpses of their former self.
    I think that if I got it I’d be inclined to do away with myself before I inflicted my decline on my family. Not Dignitas which seems the very opposite of dignified. Disappearing into the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Amalfi or dying in the middle of my garden seem infinitely preferable. At least the final view would be of somewhere beautiful not some grey room.
    I think I'd prefer a grey room myself (calm controlled environment, not distracted by seasickness or hayfever!), but clearly the choice should be as far as possible with the individual. An important point is that dementia isn't always unhappy for the individual, even though it's tough on the family. My father had it - couldn't go out alone because he might not find the way back, sometimes couldn't remember quite basic things about the family - but he knew he had it and yet said it was the happiest time of his life, with physical comfort, no money worries and a loving wife and son around him. He used to joke that the great thing was that he could re-read his favourite books as he no longer remembered the endings...

    Now that's a light year from people who desperately flounder, unable to understand anything around them. But it's important to look at the individual who is suffering the condition and how they feel about it. The family, I think, just have to live with it- in the end they will live through it and beyond.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Rubbish news about Terry Jones, what an awful disease that is.

    There is a lot of it about, as the doctors say. Look how often donations to mental health charities are solicited in funeral notices. It used to be mooted that smoking protected against Parkinson's and dementia, which would be ironic if true.
    Yes, my grandfather got Alzheimer's (although he lived to 91, despite smoking Capstan full strength daily for most of his life). It is very hard on families, who are robbed of the person that they knew, only getting occasional glimpses of their former self.
    I was fortunate, in that the form of dementia my mother suffered until her recent passing was not Altzheimers, but another type. It meant that she did still know exactly who I was to the end - and her face would light up when she saw me arrive to visit. But she did live a world of her own creation. This meant, for example, I would get berated for not congratulating her on her recent award of the Nobel Prize.

    (Literature, if you were wondering.)
    You are Melania Trump AICMFP.
    She and Donald would have got on famously!
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605

    Cyclefree said:

    Rubbish news about Terry Jones, what an awful disease that is.

    There is a lot of it about, as the doctors say. Look how often donations to mental health charities are solicited in funeral notices. It used to be mooted that smoking protected against Parkinson's and dementia, which would be ironic if true.
    Yes, my grandfather got Alzheimer's (although he lived to 91, despite smoking Capstan full strength daily for most of his life). It is very hard on families, who are robbed of the person that they knew, only getting occasional glimpses of their former self.
    I think that if I got it I’d be inclined to do away with myself before I inflicted my decline on my family. Not Dignitas which seems the very opposite of dignified. Disappearing into the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Amalfi or dying in the middle of my garden seem infinitely preferable. At least the final view would be of somewhere beautiful not some grey room.
    The terrifying thought is being incapacitated before that option is achievable. It puts loved ones in a terrible predicament - watch you suffer, for maybe years, knowing the you before incapacity would be expessing hating every minute of it. Or resort to extreme measures - and have to take the dire consequences. I do have very great sympathies for those who take the latter course.
    There's a brilliant sad film on this theme. Still Alice

    I'm an active member of the Dignify in Dying campaign and l commend it to everyone.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Cyclefree said:

    Chameleon said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Rubbish news about Terry Jones, what an awful disease that is.

    There is a lot of it about, as the doctors say. Look how often donations to mental health charities are solicited in funeral notices. It used to be mooted that smoking protected against Parkinson's and dementia, which would be ironic if true.
    Yes, my grandfather got Alzheimer's (although he lived to 91, despite smoking Capstan full strength daily for most of his life). It is very hard on families, who are robbed of the person that they knew, only getting occasional glimpses of their former self.
    I think that if I got it I’d be inclined to do away with myself before I inflicted my decline on my family. Not Dignitas which seems the very opposite of dignified. Disappearing into the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Amalfi or dying in the middle of my garden seem infinitely preferable. At least the final view would be of somewhere beautiful not some grey room.
    This is why we need legalised euthanasia in the UK, I recommend everyone to look up the Dignity in Dying campaign. People should be able to choose to pass away at a time and place of their choosing with their family and friends present (if desired. It's simply awful and scaring seeing loved ones completely mentally absent yet suffering, and is deeply unfair on children who can't afford to put their work on hold to make sure that they are there for the final moments.
    I don’t want to be euthanised. I will, if I have to, take my own life quietly and without fuss.
    Always assuming fate leaves you that choice.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:
    As long as Northern Ireland stays in the Union the UK government will decide Brexit for Northern Ireland, the Withdrawal Agreement protects the Good Friday Agreement which is the only requirement Northern Ireland needs respected
    Sinn Fein thanks HYUFD for adding another few thousand to the border poll tally.
    Far from it, the fact the Good Friday Agreement is protected and there is no th.

    Ignoring facts again. Since the election the Stormont Assembly has voted against the WA.

    Do you really think imposing a WA on a province which does not support it will have no consequences, either for that province or its relationship with the rest of the country?
    No you are.

    We are a United Kingdom and devolved governments are subordinate to and were created by Westminster. End of conversation.

    Despite EU fanatics like you being desperate to break up the Union and reverse Brexit 54% of Scots voted for Unionist parties at the general election and 43% of Northern Ireland voters voted for Unionist parties compared to just 38% for Nationalist parties after the Withdrawal Agreement was agreed
    I see that once again you misrepresent my position.

    And also that you fail to answer the question. I am well aware that Stormont is subordinate to Westminster. But my question was not about the constitutional position nor about the results of the election.

    Since the election Stormont has voted against the WA. So once again - do you think that
    imposing a WA on a province which does not support it will have no consequences, either for that province or its relationship with the rest of the country?

    It may help you when thinking about your answer if you try to look at the possible political consequences of this in the future rather than merely repeating the legal/constitutional status as of now.
    The political consequence that the combined DUP and UUP vote was higher in 2019 than 2010 despite Brexit and the Withdrawal Agreement?
    I hate to break this to you but we are now in 2020.
    Yes the election in December 2019 was after the Brexit vote and after the Withdrawal Agreement was signed by Boris and yet still the Unionist vote is higher than a decade ago before Brexit despite your whinging
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Barnesian said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Rubbish news about Terry Jones, what an awful disease that is.

    There is a lot of it about, as the doctors say. Look how often donations to mental health charities are solicited in funeral notices. It used to be mooted that smoking protected against Parkinson's and dementia, which would be ironic if true.
    Yes, my grandfather got Alzheimer's (although he lived to 91, despite smoking Capstan full strength daily for most of his life). It is very hard on families, who are robbed of the person that they knew, only getting occasional glimpses of their former self.
    I think that if I got it I’d be inclined to do away with myself before I inflicted my decline on my family. Not Dignitas which seems the very opposite of dignified. Disappearing into the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Amalfi or dying in the middle of my garden seem infinitely preferable. At least the final view would be of somewhere beautiful not some grey room.
    The terrifying thought is being incapacitated before that option is achievable. It puts loved ones in a terrible predicament - watch you suffer, for maybe years, knowing the you before incapacity would be expessing hating every minute of it. Or resort to extreme measures - and have to take the dire consequences. I do have very great sympathies for those who take the latter course.
    There's a brilliant sad film on this theme. Still Alice

    I'm an active member of the Dignify in Dying campaign and l commend it to everyone.
    I am also a member, although not as active as I should be.
  • eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Also worth noting that NI’s devolved assembly has voted against the WA which so many on here have described as being utterly wonderful for them. Let’s see how far the belief in getting NI’s consent - something which seemed absolutely critical when it came to the backstop) - extends.
    As long as Northern Ireland stays in the Union the UK government will decide Brexit for Northern Ireland, the Withdrawal Agreement protects the Good Friday Agreement which is the only requirement Northern Ireland needs respected
    Sinn Fein thanks HYUFD for adding another few thousand to the border poll tally.
    Far from it, the fact the Good Friday Agreement is protected and there is no hard border with the Republic of Ireland but Northern Ireland still remains in the UK and leaves the EU is a key reason Unionist parties comfortably beat Nationalist parties 43% to 38% in the general election in Northern Ireland last month.

    What did the unionist parties get in 2010 or 2015? The trend is definitely not in their favour.

    Separately I would hope your maths is good enough to understand that 43% isn't enough to win a referendum.
    In 2010 Unionist parties only got 40% so their vote has actually risen 3% despite Brexit in a decade

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    Thought Boris will of course ban any Irish unity or Scottish independence referenda as per the winning Tory manifesto anyway
    Not so easy in Northern Ireland, the Good Friday Agreement requires it to occur if the conditions are met. And those conditions are:-

    “if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland”, the Secretary of State shall make an Order in Council enabling a border poll.

    It also states that a border poll should not take place within 7 years of a previous one, a useful insight into what Westminster considered a political generation at that point.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,142
    HYUFD said:

    In 2010 Unionist parties only got 40% so their vote has actually risen 3% despite Brexit in a decade. 43% is also more than 38%.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    Your claim that Unionist parties only got 40% is very wrong. You seem to have forgotten about the more-hardline-than-the-DUP Traditional Unionist Voice on 4%.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,142

    HYUFD said:

    In 2010 Unionist parties only got 40% so their vote has actually risen 3% despite Brexit in a decade. 43% is also more than 38%.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    Your claim that Unionist parties only got 40% is very wrong. You seem to have forgotten about the more-hardline-than-the-DUP Traditional Unionist Voice on 4%.
    Oh, and a lot of the 7% Other vote was Sylvia Hermon, an independent Unionist.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    @DecrepiterJohnL

    In a sense smoking prevents dementia because you are less likely to get very old. It more or less promises this on the packet.

    @rkrkrk

    OK I'll read a few Cummings blogs then. See if I get the sense I'm in the presence of somebody very special. Hope so. It's great when that happens.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    nunu2 said:

    As I said, Sanders will win Iowa. Hillary's unendorsement has helped him.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1219950436737830912

    Crazy. Dems are bonkers. Four more years of Trump.
    AOC is joining him for a weekend statewide blitz - be interesting to see the effect.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Also worth noting that NI’s devolved assembly has voted against the WA which so many on here have described as being utterly wonderful for them. Let’s see how far the belief in getting NI’s consent - something which seemed absolutely critical when it came to the backstop) - extends.
    As long as Northern Ireland stays in the Union the UK government will decide Brexit for Northern Ireland, the Withdrawal Agreement protects the Good Friday Agreement which is the only requirement Northern Ireland needs respected
    Sinn Fein thanks HYUFD for adding another few thousand to the border poll tally.
    Far from it, the fact the Good Friday Agreement is protected and there is no hard border with the Republic of Ireland but Northern Ireland still remains in the UK and leaves the EU is a key reason Unionist parties comfortably beat Nationalist parties 43% to 38% in the general election in Northern Ireland last month.

    'is the key reason'? Might be. Might not be. Suspect it never crossed the mind of the vast majority. Do you think if the situation was different a whole lot of protestants might vote Sinn Fein or SDLP and Catholics DUP or UUP?
    Irrelevant, the fact is more Northern Ireland voters voted for London to be the supreme decider of their affairs not Dublin despite Brexit
    I'm confused by that answer:

    a) What bit is 'irrelevant'? I am relating directly back to what you said. The 'irrelevant' can only be directed to 'is the key reason' which is what you said, or my question, which was obviously rhetorical, demonstrating it may not be the key reason. In which case how can it be irrelevant? I'm confused, In either case you are in effect saying what you said initially is irrelevant? Would be odd if you were, but from what you have said it follows that you are.

    b) When did the Northern Ireland voters vote for London to be the supreme decider? Can't ever remember them being asked that and it can only vaguely be extrapolated from the GE result. Think it is fair to say that the Unionist and non aligned parties are not cock a hoop about it all.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    edited January 2020

    Barnesian said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Rubbish news about Terry Jones, what an awful disease that is.

    There is a lot of it about, as the doctors say. Look how often donations to mental health charities are solicited in funeral notices. It used to be mooted that smoking protected against Parkinson's and dementia, which would be ironic if true.
    Yes, my grandfather got Alzheimer's (although he lived to 91, despite smoking Capstan full strength daily for most of his life). It is very hard on families, who are robbed of the person that they knew, only getting occasional glimpses of their former self.
    I think that if I got it I’d be inclined to do away with myself before I inflicted my decline on my family. Not Dignitas which seems the very opposite of dignified. Disappearing into the Mediterranean Sea off the coast of Amalfi or dying in the middle of my garden seem infinitely preferable. At least the final view would be of somewhere beautiful not some grey room.
    The terrifying thought is being incapacitated before that option is achievable. It puts loved ones in a terrible predicament - watch you suffer, for maybe years, knowing the you before incapacity would be expessing hating every minute of it. Or resort to extreme measures - and have to take the dire consequences. I do have very great sympathies for those who take the latter course.
    There's a brilliant sad film on this theme. Still Alice

    I'm an active member of the Dignify in Dying campaign and l commend it to everyone.
    I am also a member, although not as active as I should be.
    I help run street stalls with leaflets, write to MPs and Peers - that sort of thing.

    EDIT Recommend it on blogs
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Also worth noting that NI’s devolved assembly has voted against the WA which so many on here have described as being utterly wonderful for them. Let’s see how far the belief in getting NI’s consent - something which seemed absolutely critical when it came to the backstop) - extends.
    As long as Northern Ireland stays in the Union the UK government will decide Brexit for Northern Ireland, the Withdrawal Agreement protects the Good Friday Agreement which is the only requirement Northern Ireland needs respected
    Sinn Fein thanks HYUFD for adding another few thousand to the border poll tally.
    Far from it, the fact the Good Friday Agreement is protected and there is no hard border with the Republic of Ireland but Northern Ireland still remains in the UK and leaves the EU is a key reason Unionist parties comfortably beat Nationalist parties 43% to 38% in the general election in Northern Ireland last month.

    'is the key reason'? Might be. Might not be. Suspect it never crossed the mind of the vast majority. Do you think if the situation was different a whole lot of protestants might vote Sinn Fein or SDLP and Catholics DUP or UUP?
    Irrelevant, the fact is more Northern Ireland voters voted for London to be the supreme decider of their affairs not Dublin despite Brexit
    I'm confused by that answer:

    a) What bit is 'irrelevant'? I am relating directly back to what you said. The 'irrelevant' can only be directed to 'is the key reason' which is what you said, or my question, which was obviously rhetorical, demonstrating it may not be the key reason. In which case how can it be irrelevant? I'm confused, In either case you are in effect saying what you said initially is irrelevant? Would be odd if you were, but from what you have said it follows that you are.

    b) When did the Northern Ireland voters vote for London to be the supreme decider? Can't ever remember them being asked that and it can only vaguely be extrapolated from the GE result. Think it is fair to say that the Unionist and non aligned parties are not cock a hoop about it all.
    To put my response a) more simply:

    You say 'A' is true.

    I say 'A' might not be true.

    You say it is irrelevant.

    You have therefore dismantled your own argument.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    I have sent strict DNR instructions to my GP to be carried out should I show any inclination to vote Tory.
  • isam said:

    When will Lisa Nandy become leader of the Labour Party?

    Before 2021 5/1
    2021 or after 1/6

    Is this real?
  • @isam another way for the bookies to win either way as she'll never be leader.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,294
    Nandy on the ballot.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    Death not the nicest of subjects to discuss but I have always fancied going for a walk in Cornwall at a grand old age and toppling off a cliff into the sea.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    edited January 2020

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Also worth noting that NI’s devolved assembly has voted against the WA which so many on here have described as being utterly wonderful for them. Let’s see how far the belief in getting NI’s consent - something which seemed absolutely critical when it came to the backstop) - extends.
    As long as Northern Ireland stays in the Union the UK government will decide Brexit for Northern Ireland, the Withdrawal Agreement protects the Good Friday Agreement which is the only requirement Northern Ireland needs respected
    Sinn Fein thanks HYUFD for adding another few thousand to the border poll tally.
    Far from it, the fact the Good Friday Agreement is protected and there is no hard border with the Republic of Ireland but Northern Ireland still remains in the UK and leaves the EU is a key reason Unionist parties comfortably beat Nationalist parties 43% to 38% in the general election in Northern Ireland last month.

    What did the unionist parties get in 2010 or 2015? The trend is definitely not in their favour.

    Separately I would hope your maths is good enough to understand that 43% isn't enough to win a referendum.
    In 2010 Unionist parties only got 40% so their vote has actually risen 3% despite Brexit in a decade

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    Thought Boris will of course ban any Irish unity or Scottish independence referenda as per the winning Tory manifesto anyway
    Not so easy in Northern Ireland, the Good Friday Agreement requires it to occur if the conditions are met. And those conditions are:-

    “if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland”, the Secretary of State shall make an Order in Council enabling a border poll.

    It also states that a border poll should not take place within 7 years of a previous one, a useful insight into what Westminster considered a political generation at that point.
    HYUFD's inability to post without checking what is actually said in writing is always a winner

    Given what's happened in the 5 and a bit years since that referendum it definitely feels like a generation ago.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    In history, Constantine Dragases had one of the most tragically heroic deaths.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    FPT

    The model Britain should be looking at, from this perspective, is not Norway’s or Switzerland’s or Canada’s trading relationship with the EU, but Canada itself: a medium-size economy flourishing next to a trading superpower; an open, multicultural democracy bound by trade agreements but not supranational institutions and law; and a country that has navigated the position in which it finds itself in the world—geographically in the New World but with ties to the old, spread out and linguistically divided, multicultural and multiethnic.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/01/britain-brexit-canada-model-europe/605224/

    Love this bit.

    One cabinet minister, who asked for anonymity because of the sensitivity of the negotiations, told me that Ireland was a small country, which meant that the quality of its ministers could not match that of those in the U.K.. And yet this attitude proved part of London’s undoing in the negotiations, which saw Ireland win more of its objectives than Britain did.

    Any ideas who this arrogant twit could have been?
    It wasn't just the government - our civil service and "Rolls Royce" (sic) Foreign Office were comprehensively out manoeuvred by the Irish who ran rings round us in Brussels...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Nandy on the ballot.

    Could OGH perhaps amend the header?
  • https://twitter.com/JoeConchaTV/status/1219977867141971974?s=20

    Speaking of which, has anything come of Emily and Caroline's contretemp?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    Barnesian said:

    There's a brilliant sad film on this theme. Still Alice

    I'm an active member of the Dignify in Dying campaign and l commend it to everyone.

    Have not seen that but I did watch the recent Glenda Jackson drama "Elizabeth is Missing" on BBC and IMO it was top notch in every way. Her performance especially. Incredible that she could do that after such a long break from acting.

    PS: Laurence Fox was not in it. So no tricky decisions for the viewer.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Does Betfair give Emily Thornberry 0% chance?

    Also, interesting to note that the on 15th January, the gap between Long-Bailey and Nandy was 20%. A week later it is now 4%....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,769
    The dark horse is on the ballot. Yippee!
  • Government wins on Dubs amendment

    342 - 254 majority 88
  • kinabalu said:

    Barnesian said:

    There's a brilliant sad film on this theme. Still Alice

    I'm an active member of the Dignify in Dying campaign and l commend it to everyone.

    Have not seen that but I did watch the recent Glenda Jackson drama "Elizabeth is Missing" on BBC and IMO it was top notch in every way. Her performance especially. Incredible that she could do that after such a long break from acting.

    PS: Laurence Fox was not in it. So no tricky decisions for the viewer.
    Jackson is a fantastic actor. She's done a few things recently, she was in R4 dramatisations of Zola novels last year, also very good.

    The Lozza connection: 'Jackson was nominated for Best Actress at the Olivier Awards for her role, but ultimately lost out to Billie Piper.'
  • Government wins on Dubs amendment

    342 - 254 majority 88

    Hooray.

    https://twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/1220003474701803520?s=20
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Govt. defeats all five Lords Amendents with majorities around 100.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905

    FPT

    The model Britain should be looking at, from this perspective, is not Norway’s or Switzerland’s or Canada’s trading relationship with the EU, but Canada itself: a medium-size economy flourishing next to a trading superpower; an open, multicultural democracy bound by trade agreements but not supranational institutions and law; and a country that has navigated the position in which it finds itself in the world—geographically in the New World but with ties to the old, spread out and linguistically divided, multicultural and multiethnic.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/01/britain-brexit-canada-model-europe/605224/

    Love this bit.
    One cabinet minister, who asked for anonymity because of the sensitivity of the negotiations, told me that Ireland was a small country, which meant that the quality of its ministers could not match that of those in the U.K.. And yet this attitude proved part of London’s undoing in the negotiations, which saw Ireland win more of its objectives than Britain did.
    Any ideas who this arrogant twit could have been?
    It wasn't just the government - our civil service and "Rolls Royce" (sic) Foreign Office were comprehensively out manoeuvred by the Irish who ran rings round us in Brussels...
    But wasn´t our Civil Service controlled by the dead hand of our (Conservative) Government? You know... May and Johnson and Cummings?
  • Does Betfair give Emily Thornberry 0% chance?

    Also, interesting to note that the on 15th January, the gap between Long-Bailey and Nandy was 20%. A week later it is now 4%....

    Don't look into that too much, the reality is Starmer can only lose If he resigned.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Govt. defeats all five Lords Amendents with majorities around 100.

    Looks like those 30-year old juveniles will have to stay in the hellholes of France and Germany.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Does Betfair give Emily Thornberry 0% chance?

    Also, interesting to note that the on 15th January, the gap between Long-Bailey and Nandy was 20%. A week later it is now 4%....

    Don't look into that too much, the reality is Starmer can only lose If he resigned.
    Maybe. For that large number of voters who think Labour needs a female leader, they are (realistically) going to be deciding between RLB and Lisa Nandy. And RLB has crashed in a week. And this is a long contest.
  • https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1220007060848418818

    Very noble of her, but it would have been better for the Labour Party if she'd been on a six-week trek across Mongolia.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,769

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1220007060848418818

    Very noble of her, but it would have been better for the Labour Party if she'd been on a six-week trek across Mongolia.

    :lol:

    Or a gap year in Patagonia.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Does Betfair give Emily Thornberry 0% chance?

    Also, interesting to note that the on 15th January, the gap between Long-Bailey and Nandy was 20%. A week later it is now 4%....

    Don't look into that too much, the reality is Starmer can only lose If he resigned.
    Maybe. For that large number of voters who think Labour needs a female leader, they are (realistically) going to be deciding between RLB and Lisa Nandy. And RLB has crashed in a week. And this is a long contest.
    If Nandy comes second on the final ballot I suspect she will win it as the more transfer friendly candidate.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1220007060848418818

    Very noble of her, but it would have been better for the Labour Party if she'd been on a six-week trek across Mongolia.

    :lol:

    Or a gap year in Patagonia.
    That's harsh.

    On Patagonia. Lovely place.
  • https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1220007060848418818

    Very noble of her, but it would have been better for the Labour Party if she'd been on a six-week trek across Mongolia.

    https://twitter.com/BraidenGB/status/1220008965913894913?s=20
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1220007060848418818

    Very noble of her, but it would have been better for the Labour Party if she'd been on a six-week trek across Mongolia.

    :D
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1220007060848418818

    Very noble of her, but it would have been better for the Labour Party if she'd been on a six-week trek across Mongolia.

    :lol:

    Or a gap year in Patagonia.
    Venezuela, surely?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    I’m feeling tentative signs of better business confidence. Anecdotally, but that’s my impression.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2020

    I’m feeling tentative signs of better business confidence. Anecdotally, but that’s my impression.

    Yes, I agree. It's not really surprising: Corbynism has been seen off, and we have a functioning government again. Even if you don't like what the government is doing, at least it's no longer paralysis and uncertainty in the short term. We may even have a functioning opposition party as well before long.

    I suspect the improvement will be quite limited, though. There are plenty of choppy waters ahead in the negotiations with the EU.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    edited January 2020
    Why do I see a trap in the question that Boris has now fallen into?

    I'm not 100% sure of what that trap is but I suspect there was one..
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    Unlike the other two contenders, she is evidently thinking. Her thoughts look like the wrong thoughts to me, but she is at least having them.

    Unlike them, she also has huge institutional disadvantages. I still expect she’ll come third.

    Unlike the other two contenders, she is evidently thinking. Her thoughts look like the wrong thoughts to me, but she is at least having them.

    Unlike them, she also has huge institutional disadvantages. I still expect she’ll come third.

    Unlike the other two contenders, she is evidently thinking. Her thoughts look like the wrong thoughts to me, but she is at least having them.

    Unlike them, she also has huge institutional disadvantages. I still expect she’ll come third.

    Sounds about right. More interesting in some ways, but it'll take something big to break into contention.
  • Och, it's the SCons, they'll have a different view by next week.

    'the pressure for indyref2 will be immense'

    https://twitter.com/ScotlandsUnico1/status/1217384503129313280?s=20

    "Scottish Secretary Alister Jack backs IndyRef2 'mandate' if SNP wins 2021 Holyrood majority"

    https://tinyurl.com/syho358
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    Jackson is a fantastic actor. She's done a few things recently, she was in R4 dramatisations of Zola novels last year, also very good.

    The Lozza connection: 'Jackson was nominated for Best Actress at the Olivier Awards for her role, but ultimately lost out to Billie Piper.'

    She was my MP for quite a few years. The only person in the House of Commons with an Oscar. Can't see that being emulated any time soon if ever.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    eek said:

    If Nandy comes second on the final ballot I suspect she will win it as the more transfer friendly candidate.

    So long as Starmer isn't too close to 50.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    rkrkrk said:

    Perhaps those attacking Cummings might actually like to read some of his blogs, and sift through the evidence he presents before making a judgement.

    He points out that the civil service's finest are unable to write reports that aren't littered with grammatical and spelling errors. He points out they are unable to interpret even the most basic mathematical or graphically presented data. He points out that forecasting and estimations ministers rely on are based on politically driven assumptions and not mathematical modelling.

    His faith in IQ, AI, technology and mathematics is sometimes naive, and I don't agree with some of his solutions, but there is strong evidence of systemic failings.

    In my experience of civil service advice to ministers, the quality of writing is very good (and certainly much more concise and easier to follow than what's on Cummings' blog). If anything I think there's an overinvestment in prose at the expense of actual evidence.
    Makes sense to me. In politics and government being very careful in wording is key. One reason you get an overreaction to that tendency to overwrite with 'rebels' being blunt or rude thinking it's cool.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    Lisa Nandy through but oddly she is drifting in the betting on that news. It may be people looking again at the polling.
    I do feel like Nandy could be riding a wave of enthusiasm or a bubble of media coverage. The Union backing is great, but what if (as I can't help but suspect) it isn't filtering through to members and the next poll has her a distant 3rd still. There's a semi-myth about Corbyn that he came from nowhere to win in 2015. He certainly wasn't expected to have an impact when MPs were voting, but polls of members had him leading by a sizeable amount from the start. His lead grew over the race, but not by that much.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Labour_Party_leadership_election_(UK)#Opinion_polling
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    Maybe. For that large number of voters who think Labour needs a female leader, they are (realistically) going to be deciding between RLB and Lisa Nandy. And RLB has crashed in a week. And this is a long contest.

    I'm back with Nandy now, Starmer as 2nd pref. She is VERY likable. Relatable. Ordinary in the best sense of that word. People will be able to imagine having a nice chinwag with her around the kitchen table. The question marks are charisma and intellect but to me she is starting to answer those. Her charisma is quiet, she wouldn't sell out the palladium, and her intellect is not showy, no ancient Greek allusions, no breathtaking philosophical insights, but I think it's all there nevertheless. I think she can rebuild that Red Wall without losing London. Which is the task at hand.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2020

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1220007060848418818

    Very noble of her, but it would have been better for the Labour Party if she'd been on a six-week trek across Mongolia.

    https://twitter.com/BraidenGB/status/1220008965913894913?s=20
    Shaddap you face, you were 2nd
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Also worth noting that NI’s devolved assembly has voted against the WA which so many on here have described as being utterly wonderful for them. Let’s see how far the belief in getting NI’s consent - something which seemed absolutely critical when it came to the backstop) - extends.
    As long as Northern Ireland stays in the Union the UK government will decide Brexit for Northern Ireland, the Withdrawal Agreement protects the Good Friday Agreement which is the only requirement Northern Ireland needs respected
    Sinn Fein thanks HYUFD for adding another few thousand to the border poll tally.
    Far from it, the fact the Good Friday Agreement is protected and there is no hard border with the Republic of Ireland but Northern Ireland still remains in the UK and leaves the EU is a key reason Unionist parties comfortably beat Nationalist parties 43% to 38% in the general election in Northern Ireland last month.

    What did the unionist parties get in 2010 or 2015? The trend is definitely not in their favour.

    Separately I would hope your maths is good enough to understand that 43% isn't enough to win a referendum.
    In 2010 Unionist parties only got 40% so their vote has actually risen 3% despite Brexit in a decade

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    Thought Boris will of course ban any Irish unity or Scottish independence referenda as per the winning Tory manifesto anyway
    Not so easy in Northern Ireland, the Good Friday Agreement requires it to occur if the conditions are met. And those conditions are:-

    “if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland”, the Secretary of State shall make an Order in Council enabling a border poll.

    And under Boris a Northern Ireland Secretary would never consider that or they would be sacked on the spot

    If at the next Assembly elections the SDLP and SF get 45% of the vote and Alliance, Greens etc 15% would you take the same view.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219

    Andy_JS said:
    Greta breathes a sigh of relief that he isn't sending his brother.
    :lol:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1220007060848418818

    Very noble of her, but it would have been better for the Labour Party if she'd been on a six-week trek across Mongolia.

    The Labour Party can consider themselves very lucky. If she hadn't taken the break, they might have lost half a dozen more seats.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    edited January 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Yes, hanging in there for Gold for Life.

    The funny bit is that I very rarely fly BA anymore. Since my membership year started at the beginning of June, I've managed zero BA flights, but 900 tier points between Cathay and American.

    I need to do four BA flights asap to make it to Gold for next year. After that, I'll have GFL, and can rest easy :smile:
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Yes, hanging in there for Gold for Life.

    The funny bit is that I very rarely fly BA anymore. Since my membership year started at the beginning of June, I've managed zero BA flights, but 900 tier points between Cathay and American.

    I need to do four BA flights asap to make it to Gold for next year. After that, I'll have GFL, and can rest easy :smile:
    Yeah, I think if I lived out of the UK and had the option of a different OW airline I'd stick with it, but this is just ridiculous. They have downgraded me to economy, given me a partial refund, not given me the same selling class (so I only get 50% TPs) and I arrive at the wrong time - 9h earlier and they have refused to book me into a hotel for the night. It's completely unacceptable. The worst part for them is that I'm on very good terms with the girl who manages our flights, she already wants to get away from BA, it won't take much to convince her and we do about 10 club class flights to Haneda per month from our office.

    I've had enough of their excuses and agents who basically don't listen on the other side.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Now Wille Walsh has gone IAG might get a new CEO not just focused on costcutting
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Also worth noting that NI’s devolved assembly has voted against the WA which so many on here have described as being utterly wonderful for them. Let’s see how far the belief in getting NI’s consent - something which seemed absolutely critical when it came to the backstop) - extends.
    As long as Northern Ireland stays in the Union the UK government will decide Brexit for Northern Ireland, the Withdrawal Agreement protects the Good Friday Agreement which is the only requirement Northern Ireland needs respected
    Sinn Fein thanks HYUFD for adding another few thousand to the border poll tally.
    Far from it, the fact the Good Friday Agreement is protected and there is no hard border with the Republic of Ireland but Northern Ireland still remains in the UK and leaves the EU is a key reason Unionist parties comfortably beat Nationalist parties 43% to 38% in the general election in Northern Ireland last month.

    What did the unionist parties get in 2010 or 2015? The trend is definitely not in their favour.

    Separately I would hope your maths is good enough to understand that 43% isn't enough to win a referendum.
    In 2010 Unionist parties only got 40% so their vote has actually risen 3% despite Brexit in a decade

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election_in_Northern_Ireland

    Thought Boris will of course ban any Irish unity or Scottish independence referenda as per the winning Tory manifesto anyway
    Not so easy in Northern Ireland, the Good Friday Agreement requires it to occur if the conditions are met. And those conditions are:-

    “if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland”, the Secretary of State shall make an Order in Council enabling a border poll.

    And under Boris a Northern Ireland Secretary would never consider that or they would be sacked on the spot

    If at the next Assembly elections the SDLP and SF get 45% of the vote and Alliance, Greens etc 15% would you take the same view.
    Yes as 45% is on no definition a majority
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Now Wille Walsh has gone IAG might get a new CEO not just focused on costcutting
    I flew BA under Willie Walsh, it was never this bad. Alex Cruz has completed ruined what was a barely functioning business airline. BA had its faults under Walsh, but it's completely shit now under Cruz.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    kinabalu said:

    Maybe. For that large number of voters who think Labour needs a female leader, they are (realistically) going to be deciding between RLB and Lisa Nandy. And RLB has crashed in a week. And this is a long contest.

    I'm back with Nandy now, Starmer as 2nd pref. She is VERY likable. Relatable. Ordinary in the best sense of that word. People will be able to imagine having a nice chinwag with her around the kitchen table. The question marks are charisma and intellect but to me she is starting to answer those. Her charisma is quiet, she wouldn't sell out the palladium, and her intellect is not showy, no ancient Greek allusions, no breathtaking philosophical insights, but I think it's all there nevertheless. I think she can rebuild that Red Wall without losing London. Which is the task at hand.
    I'm keeping an open mind for now, though I don't expect to back RLB, not necessarily because she's left-wing but because I don't think she puts the left-wing case convincingly. I have reservations about charisma for both Starmer and Nandy and want to see them in debate, as well as to hear specifically what policies they favour.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Maybe. For that large number of voters who think Labour needs a female leader, they are (realistically) going to be deciding between RLB and Lisa Nandy. And RLB has crashed in a week. And this is a long contest.

    I'm back with Nandy now, Starmer as 2nd pref. She is VERY likable. Relatable. Ordinary in the best sense of that word. People will be able to imagine having a nice chinwag with her around the kitchen table. The question marks are charisma and intellect but to me she is starting to answer those. Her charisma is quiet, she wouldn't sell out the palladium, and her intellect is not showy, no ancient Greek allusions, no breathtaking philosophical insights, but I think it's all there nevertheless. I think she can rebuild that Red Wall without losing London. Which is the task at hand.
    Can you imagine Nandy dealing with Macron, Putin, Trump, Xi, Merkel, Modi, Trudeau etc though? I can't really, she would be way out of her depth as PM, as to be fair would Long Bailey, Starmer wouldn't even if I disagree with him
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    Och, it's the SCons, they'll have a different view by next week.

    'the pressure for indyref2 will be immense'

    https://twitter.com/ScotlandsUnico1/status/1217384503129313280?s=20

    "Scottish Secretary Alister Jack backs IndyRef2 'mandate' if SNP wins 2021 Holyrood majority"

    https://tinyurl.com/syho358
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/18155243.alister-jack-slammed-lifetime-indyref2-refusal/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,769
    “Not even the Soviet Union behaved like this. Trump is a danger to the whole of civilisation but people don’t seem to realise what is happening. How has America come to this point?”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/01/22/unsettling-shuttle-ride-davos-chinas-top-brain-scientist/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Yes, hanging in there for Gold for Life.

    The funny bit is that I very rarely fly BA anymore. Since my membership year started at the beginning of June, I've managed zero BA flights, but 900 tier points between Cathay and American.

    I need to do four BA flights asap to make it to Gold for next year. After that, I'll have GFL, and can rest easy :smile:
    Yeah, I think if I lived out of the UK and had the option of a different OW airline I'd stick with it, but this is just ridiculous. They have downgraded me to economy, given me a partial refund, not given me the same selling class (so I only get 50% TPs) and I arrive at the wrong time - 9h earlier and they have refused to book me into a hotel for the night. It's completely unacceptable. The worst part for them is that I'm on very good terms with the girl who manages our flights, she already wants to get away from BA, it won't take much to convince her and we do about 10 club class flights to Haneda per month from our office.

    I've had enough of their excuses and agents who basically don't listen on the other side.
    Sounds like time to shift.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Now Wille Walsh has gone IAG might get a new CEO not just focused on costcutting
    I flew BA under Willie Walsh, it was never this bad. Alex Cruz has completed ruined what was a barely functioning business airline. BA had its faults under Walsh, but it's completely shit now under Cruz.
    Yet in 2009 BA made a £230 million annual loss, by 2018 that was a £1.9 billion annual profit, cost cutting was needed and ensured the airline's survival even if it can now perhaps ease off and reinvest in customer perks

    https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2019/february/ba-celebrates-record-profits-and-100-years-of-flying-but-forgets-to-invite-its-own-staff-to-the-party-say-unions/
  • HYUFD said:

    Och, it's the SCons, they'll have a different view by next week.

    'the pressure for indyref2 will be immense'

    https://twitter.com/ScotlandsUnico1/status/1217384503129313280?s=20

    "Scottish Secretary Alister Jack backs IndyRef2 'mandate' if SNP wins 2021 Holyrood majority"

    https://tinyurl.com/syho358
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/18155243.alister-jack-slammed-lifetime-indyref2-refusal/
    Thanks for making my point.

    'they'll have a different view by next week'
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Now Wille Walsh has gone IAG might get a new CEO not just focused on costcutting
    I flew BA under Willie Walsh, it was never this bad. Alex Cruz has completed ruined what was a barely functioning business airline. BA had its faults under Walsh, but it's completely shit now under Cruz.
    Yet in 2009 BA made a £230 million annual loss, by 2018 that was a £1.2 billion annual profit, cost cutting was needed and ensured the airline's survival even if it can now perhaps ease off and reinvest in customer perks

    https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2019/february/ba-celebrates-record-profits-and-100-years-of-flying-but-forgets-to-invite-its-own-staff-to-the-party-say-unions/
    Wasn't 2009 the Global Financial Crisis when pretty much every airline suffered badly?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,769
    "According to a well placed Downing Street source, if the BBC’s board and Clementi ‘try to put someone like Purnell in [as DG], we will put in a chairman whose first job is to fire him…The likes of Purnell [would be] “dead on arrival”.’ "

    Spectator on BBC DG job.

    Who in Downing Street could it be who uses language like DOA?


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,219
    Silicon Valley has worse traffic than LA.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    Och, it's the SCons, they'll have a different view by next week.

    'the pressure for indyref2 will be immense'

    https://twitter.com/ScotlandsUnico1/status/1217384503129313280?s=20

    "Scottish Secretary Alister Jack backs IndyRef2 'mandate' if SNP wins 2021 Holyrood majority"

    https://tinyurl.com/syho358
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/18155243.alister-jack-slammed-lifetime-indyref2-refusal/
    Thanks for making my point.

    'they'll have a different view by next week'
    Boris ultimately decides and he is clear, no indyref2 while he is PM under any circumstances as per the Tory manifesto
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Now Wille Walsh has gone IAG might get a new CEO not just focused on costcutting
    I flew BA under Willie Walsh, it was never this bad. Alex Cruz has completed ruined what was a barely functioning business airline. BA had its faults under Walsh, but it's completely shit now under Cruz.
    Yet in 2009 BA made a £230 million annual loss, by 2018 that was a £1.2 billion annual profit, cost cutting was needed and ensured the airline's survival even if it can now perhaps ease off and reinvest in customer perks

    https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2019/february/ba-celebrates-record-profits-and-100-years-of-flying-but-forgets-to-invite-its-own-staff-to-the-party-say-unions/
    Wasn't 2009 the Global Financial Crisis when pretty much every airline suffered badly?
    And the lean survived
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    edited January 2020
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Now Wille Walsh has gone IAG might get a new CEO not just focused on costcutting
    I flew BA under Willie Walsh, it was never this bad. Alex Cruz has completed ruined what was a barely functioning business airline. BA had its faults under Walsh, but it's completely shit now under Cruz.
    Yet in 2009 BA made a £230 million annual loss, by 2018 that was a £1.9 billion annual profit, cost cutting was needed and ensured the airline's survival even if it can now perhaps ease off and reinvest in customer perks

    https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2019/february/ba-celebrates-record-profits-and-100-years-of-flying-but-forgets-to-invite-its-own-staff-to-the-party-say-unions/
    Tbh, that doesn't bother me and 2009 was a very bad year for all airlines as corporates cut back business flights to save costs. It's a bad comparison. Additionally BA was a highly profitable airline well before 2019, yet they keep cutting away at what makes people want to fly with them.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Och, it's the SCons, they'll have a different view by next week.

    'the pressure for indyref2 will be immense'

    https://twitter.com/ScotlandsUnico1/status/1217384503129313280?s=20

    "Scottish Secretary Alister Jack backs IndyRef2 'mandate' if SNP wins 2021 Holyrood majority"

    https://tinyurl.com/syho358
    https://www.thenational.scot/news/18155243.alister-jack-slammed-lifetime-indyref2-refusal/
    Thanks for making my point.

    'they'll have a different view by next week'
    Boris ultimately decides and he is clear, no indyref2 while he is PM under any circumstances as per the Tory manifesto
    You Falangists love a strong man dontcha?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Now Wille Walsh has gone IAG might get a new CEO not just focused on costcutting
    I flew BA under Willie Walsh, it was never this bad. Alex Cruz has completed ruined what was a barely functioning business airline. BA had its faults under Walsh, but it's completely shit now under Cruz.
    Yet in 2009 BA made a £230 million annual loss, by 2018 that was a £1.9 billion annual profit, cost cutting was needed and ensured the airline's survival even if it can now perhaps ease off and reinvest in customer perks

    https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2019/february/ba-celebrates-record-profits-and-100-years-of-flying-but-forgets-to-invite-its-own-staff-to-the-party-say-unions/
    Tbh, that doesn't bother me and 2009 was a very bad year for all airlines as corporates cut back business flights to save costs. It's a bad comparison. Additionally BA was a highly profitable airline well before 2019, yet they keep cutting away at what makes people want to fly with them.
    For europe (when I had to fly with them) the thing that annoyed me was a seat pitch that didn't let me use my laptop comfortable. Yes that inch was probably 1 more row of seats in economy but it lost them probably 10 return flights last year.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    "According to a well placed Downing Street source, if the BBC’s board and Clementi ‘try to put someone like Purnell in [as DG], we will put in a chairman whose first job is to fire him…The likes of Purnell [would be] “dead on arrival”.’ "

    Spectator on BBC DG job.

    Who in Downing Street could it be who uses language like DOA?


    Who in Downing Street is allowed to leak or comment on behalf of Dowing Street.

    It all leads to one very poorly dressed man with a small rugby ball.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Now Wille Walsh has gone IAG might get a new CEO not just focused on costcutting
    I flew BA under Willie Walsh, it was never this bad. Alex Cruz has completed ruined what was a barely functioning business airline. BA had its faults under Walsh, but it's completely shit now under Cruz.
    Yet in 2009 BA made a £230 million annual loss, by 2018 that was a £1.9 billion annual profit, cost cutting was needed and ensured the airline's survival even if it can now perhaps ease off and reinvest in customer perks

    https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2019/february/ba-celebrates-record-profits-and-100-years-of-flying-but-forgets-to-invite-its-own-staff-to-the-party-say-unions/
    Tbh, that doesn't bother me and 2009 was a very bad year for all airlines as corporates cut back business flights to save costs. It's a bad comparison. Additionally BA was a highly profitable airline well before 2019, yet they keep cutting away at what makes people want to fly with them.
    For europe (when I had to fly with them) the thing that annoyed me was a seat pitch that didn't let me use my laptop comfortable. Yes that inch was probably 1 more row of seats in economy but it lost them probably 10 return flights last year.
    Economy is all about cramming them in cheaply, if you want extra space for your laptop cough up for business or first class
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Now Wille Walsh has gone IAG might get a new CEO not just focused on costcutting
    I flew BA under Willie Walsh, it was never this bad. Alex Cruz has completed ruined what was a barely functioning business airline. BA had its faults under Walsh, but it's completely shit now under Cruz.
    Yet in 2009 BA made a £230 million annual loss, by 2018 that was a £1.9 billion annual profit, cost cutting was needed and ensured the airline's survival even if it can now perhaps ease off and reinvest in customer perks

    https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2019/february/ba-celebrates-record-profits-and-100-years-of-flying-but-forgets-to-invite-its-own-staff-to-the-party-say-unions/
    Tbh, that doesn't bother me and 2009 was a very bad year for all airlines as corporates cut back business flights to save costs. It's a bad comparison. Additionally BA was a highly profitable airline well before 2019, yet they keep cutting away at what makes people want to fly with them.
    For europe (when I had to fly with them) the thing that annoyed me was a seat pitch that didn't let me use my laptop comfortable. Yes that inch was probably 1 more row of seats in economy but it lost them probably 10 return flights last year.
    Economy is all about cramming them in cheaply, if you want extra space for your laptop cough up for business or first class
    The trouble is I'm usually too drunk in first class to get any work done. ;)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    eek said:


    For europe (when I had to fly with them) the thing that annoyed me was a seat pitch that didn't let me use my laptop comfortable. Yes that inch was probably 1 more row of seats in economy but it lost them probably 10 return flights last year.

    Yes, it's that kind of poor decision making which has really hurt them. I haven't tried the A350 club class yet, but I'm told it's not as good as they claim by someone who has used it. I've also found the drink selection in club has gone to shit too and the food quality has also gone down. It's well behind Virgin First now, who have premium quality spirits, wines and food compared to BA.

    I know it's definitely #firstworldproblems but what used to be a properly first rate business airline and something the nation could be proud of has turned to complete and utter shit where people are either locked in like Robert or deluded like HYFUD.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Now Wille Walsh has gone IAG might get a new CEO not just focused on costcutting
    I flew BA under Willie Walsh, it was never this bad. Alex Cruz has completed ruined what was a barely functioning business airline. BA had its faults under Walsh, but it's completely shit now under Cruz.
    Yet in 2009 BA made a £230 million annual loss, by 2018 that was a £1.9 billion annual profit, cost cutting was needed and ensured the airline's survival even if it can now perhaps ease off and reinvest in customer perks

    https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2019/february/ba-celebrates-record-profits-and-100-years-of-flying-but-forgets-to-invite-its-own-staff-to-the-party-say-unions/
    Tbh, that doesn't bother me and 2009 was a very bad year for all airlines as corporates cut back business flights to save costs. It's a bad comparison. Additionally BA was a highly profitable airline well before 2019, yet they keep cutting away at what makes people want to fly with them.
    For europe (when I had to fly with them) the thing that annoyed me was a seat pitch that didn't let me use my laptop comfortable. Yes that inch was probably 1 more row of seats in economy but it lost them probably 10 return flights last year.
    Economy is all about cramming them in cheaply, if you want extra space for your laptop cough up for business or first class
    BA don't vary seat pitch on short haul.
  • On the Jim Murphy rule (the more opponents have a go at them, the more they fear him), out of the Lab candidates is Starmer getting the most pelters/laughably flimsy bollox from the usual suspects?

    https://twitter.com/BenRamanauskas/status/1220036271390765057?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Ok, I'm at the end of my relationship with BA/OneWorld. What's the fucking point of gold status of the customer service is still absolutely shite. Flight cancelled, it happens, rebooked, fine, business not available, not fine, customer service complete and utter shite.

    Honestly, the airline has completely gone down the pan and I'm going to use whatever internal tools I have available to get us switched to some other flight program where I can collect some other points like delta miles.

    I have 32,500 lifetime tier points, so I'm locked in :disappointed:
    Wow, you're not far off GGL. I'm at about 9k so it's not such a big deal for me. A loss but if they sack Alex Cruz and replace him with someone who understands not to piss off the customers then I'll come back but this is just unacceptable.

    I've got Italy, Japan twice and India/Bali booked. After that I'll be looking for some other airline/alliance combo.
    Now Wille Walsh has gone IAG might get a new CEO not just focused on costcutting
    I flew BA under Willie Walsh, it was never this bad. Alex Cruz has completed ruined what was a barely functioning business airline. BA had its faults under Walsh, but it's completely shit now under Cruz.
    Yet in 2009 BA made a £230 million annual loss, by 2018 that was a £1.9 billion annual profit, cost cutting was needed and ensured the airline's survival even if it can now perhaps ease off and reinvest in customer perks

    https://unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2019/february/ba-celebrates-record-profits-and-100-years-of-flying-but-forgets-to-invite-its-own-staff-to-the-party-say-unions/
    Tbh, that doesn't bother me and 2009 was a very bad year for all airlines as corporates cut back business flights to save costs. It's a bad comparison. Additionally BA was a highly profitable airline well before 2019, yet they keep cutting away at what makes people want to fly with them.
    For europe (when I had to fly with them) the thing that annoyed me was a seat pitch that didn't let me use my laptop comfortable. Yes that inch was probably 1 more row of seats in economy but it lost them probably 10 return flights last year.
    Economy is all about cramming them in cheaply, if you want extra space for your laptop cough up for business or first class
    The trouble is I'm usually too drunk in first class to get any work done. ;)
    Well all the more profit for them then on your drinks bill
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:


    For europe (when I had to fly with them) the thing that annoyed me was a seat pitch that didn't let me use my laptop comfortable. Yes that inch was probably 1 more row of seats in economy but it lost them probably 10 return flights last year.

    Yes, it's that kind of poor decision making which has really hurt them. I haven't tried the A350 club class yet, but I'm told it's not as good as they claim by someone who has used it. I've also found the drink selection in club has gone to shit too and the food quality has also gone down. It's well behind Virgin First now, who have premium quality spirits, wines and food compared to BA.

    I know it's definitely #firstworldproblems but what used to be a properly first rate business airline and something the nation could be proud of has turned to complete and utter shit where people are either locked in like Robert or deluded like HYFUD.
    Business does not work on pride, it works on profit
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Looks like the salary requirements for immigrants is going to be scrapped . That will be a huge relief to many sectors of the economy .

    Not sure it will please some Leavers .
This discussion has been closed.