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SystemSystem Posts: 12,626
edited January 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » My 123/1 LD leadership bet

Bath MP @Wera_Hobhouse tells our political correspondent @davidbevanwood that she might run to become the next leader of the Liberal Democrats. ??? pic.twitter.com/nwsoob8yp9

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,557
    edited January 2020
    Given both Moran and Davey have comfortable majorities now I doubt that will be much of an issue
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,296
    A better bet for leader after next?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,557
    Sir Patrick Stewart says Brexit 'is the grimmest thing in his political lifetime' and he has given up on taking US citizenship to vote against Trump to keep campaigning against Boris

    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jan/15/sir-patrick-stewart-speaks-of-brexit-sorrow-at-star-trek-launch?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Kp2Dl0cDqAcKazGZe7_19EvxYvWWgOurDTnU-45H49QVh1Voh1F8t0xE#Echobox=1579165427
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,557
    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1217980032628469764?s=20
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    HYUFD said:

    Sir Patrick Stewart says Brexit 'is the grimmest thing in his political lifetime' and he has given up on taking US citizenship to vote against Trump to keep campaigning against Boris

    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jan/15/sir-patrick-stewart-speaks-of-brexit-sorrow-at-star-trek-launch?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Kp2Dl0cDqAcKazGZe7_19EvxYvWWgOurDTnU-45H49QVh1Voh1F8t0xE#Echobox=1579165427

    Sir Patrick Stewart has impeccable working class roots.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,557
    https://twitter.com/CarolineFlint/status/1217900892374097920?s=20
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    So someone in an eleven horse race really be 123/1?

    My view is no, so good bet.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    The first episode of Picard was shown in London on Wednesday night, those who have seen it say it was amazing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,614
    edited January 2020
    HYUFD said:

    Sir Patrick Stewart says Brexit 'is the grimmest thing in his political lifetime' and he has given up on taking US citizenship to vote against Trump to keep campaigning against Boris

    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jan/15/sir-patrick-stewart-speaks-of-brexit-sorrow-at-star-trek-launch?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Kp2Dl0cDqAcKazGZe7_19EvxYvWWgOurDTnU-45H49QVh1Voh1F8t0xE#Echobox=1579165427

    FPT: Jonathon, you are just saying that those who hate Boris Johnson and the Tories will continue to hate them.

    Those haters have just had a general election - where the haters got smashed.

    The sensible remainers will move on and will let their wounds heal. A small minority will continue to pick at them. They will end up with disfiguring scars, but not much else to show for it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,086
    HYUFD said:

    Sir Patrick Stewart says Brexit 'is the grimmest thing in his political lifetime' and he has given up on taking US citizenship to vote against Trump to keep campaigning against Boris

    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jan/15/sir-patrick-stewart-speaks-of-brexit-sorrow-at-star-trek-launch?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3Kp2Dl0cDqAcKazGZe7_19EvxYvWWgOurDTnU-45H49QVh1Voh1F8t0xE#Echobox=1579165427

    Peak luvvie.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,614
    Daisy over Wera, every time......
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,614
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So someone in an eleven horse race really be 123/1?

    My view is no, so good bet.

    If I was 100,000-1 to be England's top World Cup Scorer in a squad of 26, it would still be a shit bet.....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    According to Wiki Vera Hobhouse used to be a Conservative councillor.

    Never knew that.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,751
    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1217980032628469764?s=20

    Another poll with an inadequate sample, but not quite as awful as usual (500 registered voters, though they threw in 100 more who aren't registered to vote, presumably just to make up the numbers). The latest NH poll (with an almost decent sample size) also shows a sudden Biden and Warren dip after the debate:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/nh/new_hampshire_democratic_presidential_primary-6276.html
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    The Lib Dems. What a total mess.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited January 2020
    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    US ambassador's moustache gets up South Korea's nose

    Harry Harris has been criticised for his facial hair, which reminds many South Koreans of the days of Japanese colonial rule

    Tensions may be running high on the Korean peninsula, but Harry Harris’s facial hair is vying with denuclearisation as the defining theme of his tenure as US ambassador to South Korea.

    Harris, a former navy admiral who was born in Japan to a Japanese mother and an American navy officer, has been accused of insulting his hosts by growing a moustache that reminds many South Koreans of the days of Japanese colonial rule.

    Japan’s 1910-45 rule over the Korean peninsula is a continuing source of resentment in South Korea, whose relations with its neighbour plummeted last year amid disputes connected to their bitter wartime history.

    Social media users in South Korea launched their criticism of Harris’s appearance soon after he was appointed in July 2018, with some noting that during colonial rule all eight Japanese governors-general had sported moustaches.

    The 63-year-old Harris told reporters in Seoul last week that he was being singled out because of his background.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/17/us-ambassadors-moustache-gets-up-south-koreas-nose
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,230
    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    Ooh, Rabada's going to the miss the final test

    https://twitter.com/CricketMirror/status/1218096542491521024
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,262
    The Lib Dems problem is their MP gene pool is so small. The MPs they do have are pavement politicians, which is fine - it gets them elected in their constituencies - but doesn't give them the bigger picture needed for direction and leadership. Their new intake of candidates didn't get elected, which is a shame because there was some talent there. Despite her mistakes I still think Swinson would make a better leader than the eligible crop.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited January 2020
    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Why? It'#s massively entertaining watching a bunch of self-important pricks turn into red faced blobs that look like they're being wanked to death by a seven handed gorilla.

    We've had to listen to endless Remainer snobbery, sneering and generalised stupid twattishness for three and half years. Suddenly it is all worth it. Payback time!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,241
    Vote LibDem, get Hobhouse

    Vote Tory, get Poorhouse
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,230
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    edited January 2020
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So someone in an eleven horse race really be 123/1?

    My view is no, so good bet.

    Agree. With so few MPs I'd back literally any of them at over 100/1 if they indicated they might run.

    I wonder if the LD membership might quite like the idea of a foreign-born leader. A very global cosmopolitan gesture.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    Like this chap you mean?

    Conversion therapy center founder who sought to turn LGBTQ Christians straight says he’s gay, rejects ‘cycle of self shame’

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/09/03/conversion-therapy-center-founder-who-sought-turn-lgbtq-christians-straight-now-says-hes-gay-rejects-cycle-shame/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,481
    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    Around ten years, according to the last thread. Then we’ll Rejoin.
    Since, of course, as pointed out Boris is no Cromwell, might be sooner.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,230
    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Why? It'#s massively entertaining watching a bunch of self-important pricks turn into red faced blobs that look like they're being wanked to death by a seven handed gorilla.

    We've had to listen to endless Remainer snobbery, sneering and generalised stupid twattishness for three and half years. Suddenly it is all worth it. Payback time!
    Classic projection.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,262
    FF43 said:

    The Lib Dems problem is their MP gene pool is so small. The MPs they do have are pavement politicians, which is fine - it gets them elected in their constituencies - but doesn't give them the bigger picture needed for direction and leadership. Their new intake of candidates didn't get elected, which is a shame because there was some talent there. Despite her mistakes I still think Swinson would make a better leader than the eligible crop.

    I think it is going to be Davey while the new intake find their feet, gain experience and develop their own personal philosophy and following.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Why? It'#s massively entertaining watching a bunch of self-important pricks turn into red faced blobs that look like they're being wanked to death by a seven handed gorilla.
    Stop looking in the mirror.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1218099217941565440
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,262
    Quincel said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So someone in an eleven horse race really be 123/1?

    My view is no, so good bet.

    Agree. With so few MPs I'd back literally any of them at over 100/1 if they indicated they might run.

    I wonder if the LD membership might quite like the idea of a foreign-born leader. A very global cosmopolitan gesture.
    I'm on Sarah Olney for £2 at 200/1 though I'm almost certain she won't throw her hat in the ring. She is now 250/1 on Betfair - longer odds than Rory Stewart at 200/1.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,557
    NickPalmer said:

    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1217980032628469764?s=20

    Another poll with an inadequate sample, but not quite as awful as usual (500 registered voters, though they threw in 100 more who aren't registered to vote, presumably just to make up the numbers). The latest NH poll (with an almost decent sample size) also shows a sudden Biden and Warren dip after the debate:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/nh/new_hampshire_democratic_presidential_primary-6276.html
    Sanders taking the lead is the key finding from both
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    https://twitter.com/AllieRenison/status/1217909724752109568
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,230
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    Like this chap you mean?

    Conversion therapy center founder who sought to turn LGBTQ Christians straight says he’s gay, rejects ‘cycle of self shame’

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/09/03/conversion-therapy-center-founder-who-sought-turn-lgbtq-christians-straight-now-says-hes-gay-rejects-cycle-shame/
    Yes. Just like that chap.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited January 2020
    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    People always slow down for a good gawp at car crashes.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,296
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1218099217941565440

    I'm not sure these people have the point they think they have.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,230
    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    @SeanT would never and I mean never have posted a comment and then EDITED it afterwards. He had a natural gift for pithy, acute prose which you seem to lack.

    As to the Remainer stuff it's classic projection on the one hand and Stockholm Syndrome on the other. Try as you and @HYUFD might, you are still diehard Remainers and no Leaver will forgive you for that.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Problem is no Leaver actually has a plan to make things better. It was all about running away from something they didn’t like.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,086
    edited January 2020
    OldKingCole said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    Around ten years, according to the last thread. Then we’ll Rejoin.
    Since, of course, as pointed out Boris is no Cromwell, might be sooner.
    In that example, when we did “remonarchise” after Cromwell it was never the same again. The constraints on the monarch through parliament and constitutional boundaries became established. First unwritten, because Charles II got it, and then written when James II didn’t.

    We’ve had a constitutional and not absolute monarchy ever seen. So Cromwell was far from pointless and indeed still has (Remainer) fans on here to this day.

    Going for the status quo ante bellum, or even worse building on it by going even further into the EU, is never going to work in achieving a consensus.

    It’s just an expression of a desire for revenge.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    matt said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    People always slow down for a good gawp at car crashes.
    lol. Yes, that is what it feels like. A bit of a guilty pleasure, I confess. But it is compellingly macabre.

    Just one of the many fascinating aspects of Remainer Psychology is how they just don't get it. They simply don't understand Brexit, at root, and they do not - it seems - possess the mental skill-set to EVER grasp why or how it happened.

    eg They think if they can just point to some alleged economic negative, and say "Look tariffs on blah blah blah will be 5.6% and we will lose £2901 per head every night" then they have won the argument, and every Leaver who is unpersuaded is necessarily stupid, and probably a racist.

    My guess is that this rank Remainer idiocy, combined with their moral sneering, would have lost them a second vote, if they'd ever been clever enough to achieve one (they weren't).

    It's probably for the best that they didn't get what they wished for. A second traumatic defeat might have triggered a Remainer Masada
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,086
    On topic, I can’t get excited enough to place any bet on the Lib Dem leadership.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    On topic, I would have thought that what the LDs are looking for is the obverse of Labour. The latter needs somebody who they think will make a good PM 5 years from now. The brand is unlikely to wither in that time.

    The LDs need somebody who can make a lot of noise (which does not mean shouty) and catch media attention right now. Hobhouse (on photos) looks vaguely telegenic, although she needs to fix her teeth. Can she speak well? No idea. Is she another Swinson or can she do more than shouty?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,230
    Byronic said:

    matt said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    People always slow down for a good gawp at car crashes.
    lol. Yes, that is what it feels like. A bit of a guilty pleasure, I confess. But it is compellingly macabre.

    Just one of the many fascinating aspects of Remainer Psychology is how they just don't get it. They simply don't understand Brexit, at root, and they do not - it seems - possess the mental skill-set to EVER grasp why or how it happened.

    eg They think if they can just point to some alleged economic negative, and say "Look tariffs on blah blah blah will be 5.6% and we will lose £2901 per head every night" then they have won the argument, and every Leaver who is unpersuaded is necessarily stupid, and probably a racist.

    My guess is that this rank Remainer idiocy, combined with their moral sneering, would have lost them a second vote, if they'd ever been clever enough to achieve one (they weren't).

    It's probably for the best that they didn't get what they wished for. A second traumatic defeat might have triggered a Remainer Masada
    Projection.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,614
    Byronic said:

    It's probably for the best that they didn't get what they wished for. A second traumatic defeat might have triggered a Remainer Masada

    Off Hartlepool Headland.....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,715
    FF43 said:

    The Lib Dems problem is their MP gene pool is so small. The MPs they do have are pavement politicians, which is fine - it gets them elected in their constituencies - but doesn't give them the bigger picture needed for direction and leadership. Their new intake of candidates didn't get elected, which is a shame because there was some talent there. Despite her mistakes I still think Swinson would make a better leader than the eligible crop.

    They must be very poor indeed then.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Who is seanT?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,684
    matt said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    People always slow down for a good gawp at car crashes.
    Yes, and they're sheeplike, stupid ••••s.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,968
    I've got a (very) small Davey lay on this market. Let's see.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,715
    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    :D
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,192
    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Why? It'#s massively entertaining watching a bunch of self-important pricks turn into red faced blobs that look like they're being wanked to death by a seven handed gorilla.

    We've had to listen to endless Remainer snobbery, sneering and generalised stupid twattishness for three and half years. Suddenly it is all worth it. Payback time!
    Well you do seem to be stepping up to the mark in the generalised stupid twattishness stakes.
    Kudos.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,262
    IshmaelZ said:

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
    This and more than this because the vote itself was profoundly stupid. We ended up rejecting the, measured somewhat objectively, best option for us. So where do we go from here? No-one has a sensible worked out plan.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,614
    Jonathan said:

    The Lib Dems. What a total mess.

    They only exist to make Labour feel a bit better.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Byronic aka Sean Thomas aka Tom Knox is a useful reminder of why I stopped looking at Guido Fawkes' website.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    IshmaelZ said:

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
    Some truth in that. But as I've said before, given the abuse hurled at them by Remainers, for the last four years - and long before - it's only human to expect a little gloating and exultation in the Leave/eurosceptic camp, as we actually quit.

    This will rise to a peak on 11pm Jan 31. Hardcore Remainers are probably best advised to abstain from social media. or indeed social intercourse, until that day is past.

    And then - to be serious - on Feb 1 we need to reunite as a country. It won't be easy. After all this bitterness (on both sides). But it is our only hope.

    And naturally Remainers are entitled to start the campaign to Rejoin, and if they do so, then good luck to them. Going on past examples it should take them about five decades.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,605
    Just had a punt on Tim Farron at 350/1.

    He is a genuine Northerner, avoided being contaminated by the coalition, and actually gained seats at election. A bit of clarity on sin and he should be fine. He is one of the LDs best communicators.

    Believe in the second coming...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,614
    FF43 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
    This and more than this because the vote itself was profoundly stupid. We ended up rejecting the, measured somewhat objectively, best option for us. So where do we go from here? No-one has a sensible worked out plan.
    Measured somewhat democratically, Brexit was the best option for the UK.

    If only you had had the chance to make the case for "the best option for us", eh? But you were blocked off from view of the voters by a cunningly parked bus...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    edited January 2020
    Really impressed by Pope this morning.

    Touched by Grace?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Jonathan said:

    Who is seanT?

    The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Prepare ye the way of Byronic, Make his paths straight.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,073
    Pulpstar said:

    I've got a (very) small Davey lay on this market. Let's see.

    I thought about your Nottinghamshire idea.

    Wouldn't a four part split be better ?

    West Notts - Ashfield and Mansfield
    North / East Notts - Bassetlaw and Newark
    South Notts - Broxtowe, Gedling and Rushcliffe (minus West Bridgeford)
    Nottingham - Nottingham plus West Bridgeford

    Perhaps with parts of Broxtowe (Eastwood) and Gedling (Calverton and Ravenshead) transferred into West Notts.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,082
    MarqueeMark said:

    FF43 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
    This and more than this because the vote itself was profoundly stupid. We ended up rejecting the, measured somewhat objectively, best option for us. So where do we go from here? No-one has a sensible worked out plan.
    Measured somewhat democratically, Brexit was the best option for the UK.

    If only you had had the chance to make the case for "the best option for us", eh? But you were blocked off from view of the voters by a cunningly parked bus...
    Voters don't always choose the 'best' option (defining 'best' is of course dependent on opinion) .
    Trump was voted in after all.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,746
    MarqueeMark said:

    Daisy over Wera, every time......

    But you've been busted when it comes to recommending the best leader for rival parties. You had me going for a while with your paeans to Lisa Nandy - especially since she happens to be in my good books too - but it has become clear that you are not on the level with it. The person you are really most afraid of is not Nandy at all. It's Keir "no duller than the average joe" Starmer. He is who you don't want (as a deeply partisan Conservative) and you puff away at Nandy precisely because you have identified her as the person most likely to deny him. If she were to actually become Labour leader, the very moment that happens, you would be in there front of the queue slagging her off as a total joke who has about as much chance of cutting "Boris" down to size as the nice enough but rather overwrought primary school teacher that you have all of a sudden decided she resembles. Devious and (IMO) reprehensible behaviour which is not healthy for our politics. But anyway, exposed, so no longer a problem and we can move on.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,605
    Jonathan said:

    The Lib Dems. What a total mess.

    Consider this brilliant graphic of the election. Lib Dems gained voters from all parties. Labour lost them to all parties.

    https://twitter.com/ElectCalculus/status/1217786623087333378?s=19
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,073
    Foxy said:

    Just had a punt on Tim Farron at 350/1.

    He is a genuine Northerner, avoided being contaminated by the coalition, and actually gained seats at election. A bit of clarity on sin and he should be fine. He is one of the LDs best communicators.

    Believe in the second coming...

    Last of the old style Liberals in a way.

    With the rest either being Scottish Unionists or Thames Valley poshos.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,305
    edited January 2020
    MarqueeMark said:

    FF43 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
    This and more than this because the vote itself was profoundly stupid. We ended up rejecting the, measured somewhat objectively, best option for us. So where do we go from here? No-one has a sensible worked out plan.
    Measured somewhat democratically, Brexit was the best option for the UK.

    If only you had had the chance to make the case for "the best option for us", eh? But you were blocked off from view of the voters by a cunningly parked bus...
    Measured 'somewhat objectively' remaining wasn't the best option. This argument is utter crap. We were a net contributor to the EU budget, and a net loser in trade to the EU. A combination that would have, probably quite deliberately, and looked at from a European perspective, quite fairly, seen us drain money to the continent in perpetuity. And for that privilege we gave up parliamentary sovereignty. It is utter remainer bilge when they repeat, Corbyn-like, that they won all the arguments, but people were just too stupid to 'get it'.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    The Lib Dems. What a total mess.

    Consider this brilliant graphic of the election. Lib Dems gained voters from all parties. Labour lost them to all parties.

    https://twitter.com/ElectCalculus/status/1217786623087333378?s=19
    Yes. The terrible Lib Dem performance in seats, under FPTP (plus losing their leader) masks a pretty decent performance in terms of votes (albeit worse than expectations, which they set far too high)

    And that's with their ridiculous Revoke Policy.

    As I said yesterday, the post-Brexit political landscape gives them a natural and unique space: to be the Referendum and Rejoin party.

    Labour will be too scared to go there, Labour might even be too scared to go for the EEA/EFTA option. Who knows.

    So Lib Dems should cheer up and start organising a Vote and Rejoin manifesto, and they could and should prosper.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,614
    kinabalu said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Daisy over Wera, every time......

    But you've been busted when it comes to recommending the best leader for rival parties. You had me going for a while with your paeans to Lisa Nandy - especially since she happens to be in my good books too - but it has become clear that you are not on the level with it. The person you are really most afraid of is not Nandy at all. It's Keir "no duller than the average joe" Starmer. He is who you don't want (as a deeply partisan Conservative) and you puff away at Nandy precisely because you have identified her as the person most likely to deny him. If she were to actually become Labour leader, the very moment that happens, you would be in there front of the queue slagging her off as a total joke who has about as much chance of cutting "Boris" down to size as the nice enough but rather overwrought primary school teacher that you have all of a sudden decided she resembles. Devious and (IMO) reprehensible behaviour which is not healthy for our politics. But anyway, exposed, so no longer a problem and we can move on.
    Be as paranoid as you like about "ulterior motives", but I happen to think Nandy will connect with lost voters in a way that Starmer won't. My honest view.

    Go ahead, elect Starmer. We can all come back in three years and do it all again. THEN you might listen about Nandy cutting through.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,262
    edited January 2020
    MarqueeMark said:

    FF43 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
    This and more than this because the vote itself was profoundly stupid. We ended up rejecting the, measured somewhat objectively, best option for us. So where do we go from here? No-one has a sensible worked out plan.
    Measured somewhat democratically, Brexit was the best option for the UK.

    If only you had had the chance to make the case for "the best option for us", eh? But you were blocked off from view of the voters by a cunningly parked bus...
    If you are running a business, you wouldn't decide to rip up your business model without considering the alternatives. Even if you think a change of direction is needed in principle, you wouldn't on the grounds that the decision was already made, deny yourself the possibility of changing your mind later once the options become clearer.

    And we still haven't discussed or worked out the alternatives. This is piss-poor decision-making
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.

    Oh.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,614
    logical_song said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    FF43 said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
    This and more than this because the vote itself was profoundly stupid. We ended up rejecting the, measured somewhat objectively, best option for us. So where do we go from here? No-one has a sensible worked out plan.
    Measured somewhat democratically, Brexit was the best option for the UK.

    If only you had had the chance to make the case for "the best option for us", eh? But you were blocked off from view of the voters by a cunningly parked bus...
    Voters don't always choose the 'best' option (defining 'best' is of course dependent on opinion) .
    Trump was voted in after all.
    History will record Trump winning as the most terrible indictment of Hillary being the worst option....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    These poor retail figures means we'll see a cut in interest rates which is bad news for us savers.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,073
    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Its good both economically and environmentally that we're not buying ever increasing amounts of imported consumer tat.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,230
    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Have you not got your new wardrobe yet? Time to get spending.
  • novanova Posts: 898
    edited January 2020
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1218099217941565440

    I'm not sure these people have the point they think they have.
    I assume you mean that if you're looking for conspiracy theories amongst Labour supporters, then there are far better ones? I which case I'd agree.

    Regarding the IRA/Corbyn link: Isn't the theory that Corbyn's IRA sympathies (despite being fairly obvious) hadn't really made much of an impact until this election. I remember reading an article (maybe the New Statesman) saying a lot of people were surprised when Boris brought up the IRA in a leaders debate.

    But then you had Labour canvassers saying it was being mentioned more and more on the doorstep, and it appears to have been heavily pushed in targeted social media advertising/groups. Not exactly dark web, but a sign that a political party can now target sympathetic groups "under the radar", which makes rebuttal a lot harder.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.

    Oh.
    To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.

    eg Germany, Italy, Austria.

    So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,746
    MarqueeMark said:

    Be as paranoid as you like about "ulterior motives", but I happen to think Nandy will connect with lost voters in a way that Starmer won't. My honest view.

    Go ahead, elect Starmer. We can all come back in three years and do it all again. THEN you might listen about Nandy cutting through.

    Mmm. Well I was taking you at face value but @Nigel_Foremain was pretty compelling on the subject yesterday and he knows you much better than I do. Plus, he is a fellow Conservative, thus has insights into that psyche which for all my empathy with others (which is huge) I do not.

    But OK, I hear you. I'm still vacillating between Starmer and Nandy. My 3rd pref is a done deal. Thornberry. Not quite right for leader but she has to podium.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,305
    Byronic said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.

    Oh.
    To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.

    eg Germany, Italy, Austria.

    So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
    The uncertainty is hella a factor. This should have been behind us ages ago.

    However, it is now being addressed.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,684
    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Have you not got your new wardrobe yet? Time to get spending.
    A pricey business, these crimplene floral prints & American Tan tights don't come for nothing.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Byronic said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.

    Oh.
    To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.

    eg Germany, Italy, Austria.

    So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
    The uncertainty is hella a factor. This should have been behind us ages ago.

    However, it is now being addressed.
    Yes, the uncertainty has been lethal. Who can invest or purchase big stuff with that hanging over us?

    It is now, in part, resolved.

    There are other signs that life IS returning. eg House Prices

    https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/economics/12603-uk-house-prices-in-fastest-increase-in-13-years-more-gains-seen-in-2020

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51127329

    I get that many people don't want to see property prices rising again, and I understand that, but they are often an early indicator of renewed economic confidence. We shall see.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,684
    another_richard said:

    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Its good both economically and environmentally that we're not buying ever increasing amounts of imported consumer tat.
    Every cloud, eh?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Byronic said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.

    Oh.
    To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.

    eg Germany, Italy, Austria.

    So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
    It makes the timing of the decision to put all current government department spending under review even more inexplicable.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    Byronic said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.

    Oh.
    To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.

    eg Germany, Italy, Austria.

    So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
    I think the bigger problem for Leavers will be that for the next few years is that if anything bad happens economically will be blamed on Brexit, whether justified or not.

    The other problem is that Leavers promised us sunlit uplands, and success equals performance minus anticipation.

    As the old maxim goes oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them, so we could see a normal cyclical recession usher in a pro EU Labour led government.

    Won't that be fun.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,296
    nova said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1218099217941565440

    I'm not sure these people have the point they think they have.
    I assume you mean that if you're looking for conspiracy theories amongst Labour supporters, then there are far better ones? I which case I'd agree.

    Regarding the IRA/Corbyn link: Isn't the theory that Corbyn's IRA sympathies (despite being fairly obvious) hadn't really made much of an impact until this election. I remember reading an article (maybe the New Statesman) saying a lot of people were surprised when Boris brought up the IRA in a leaders debate.

    But then you had Labour canvassers saying it was being mentioned more and more on the doorstep, and it appears to have been heavily pushed in targeted social media advertising/groups. Not exactly dark web, but a sign that a political party can now target sympathetic groups "under the radar", which makes rebuttal a lot harder.
    I think that is probably right, and have previously raised the rebuttal problem here: parties cannot respond to claims if they do not know those claims are being made in the first place.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,167
    Byronic said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
    Some truth in that. But as I've said before, given the abuse hurled at them by Remainers, for the last four years - and long before - it's only human to expect a little gloating and exultation in the Leave/eurosceptic camp, as we actually quit.

    This will rise to a peak on 11pm Jan 31. Hardcore Remainers are probably best advised to abstain from social media. or indeed social intercourse, until that day is past.

    And then - to be serious - on Feb 1 we need to reunite as a country. It won't be easy. After all this bitterness (on both sides). But it is our only hope.

    And naturally Remainers are entitled to start the campaign to Rejoin, and if they do so, then good luck to them. Going on past examples it should take them about five decades.
    The Remain/Rejoin campaign next time could not be worse than the last one. If they think Brexit is a disaster they only have to look at their campaign for the reason.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,684
    The building a new and better relationship with our closest neighbours thing is going well.

    https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1217879812322230274?s=20
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,739
    Does anyone know what's happening to the 100 grand raised for Johnson's 'Bung a Bob for Big Ben Bong' thing?

    When we look back on the radioactive rubble of the Johnson premiership we won't be able to say the signs weren't there from the start...
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    algarkirk said:

    Byronic said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    I'm still agog at the state of the Radical Remainers on Twitter.

    Total fucking Chernobylising doesn't begin to describe their meltdown. I wonder if some of them might do themselves a mischief on Brexit Day.

    And how long and how far will the fall-out disperse?

    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.
    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
    Some truth in that. But as I've said before, given the abuse hurled at them by Remainers, for the last four years - and long before - it's only human to expect a little gloating and exultation in the Leave/eurosceptic camp, as we actually quit.

    This will rise to a peak on 11pm Jan 31. Hardcore Remainers are probably best advised to abstain from social media. or indeed social intercourse, until that day is past.

    And then - to be serious - on Feb 1 we need to reunite as a country. It won't be easy. After all this bitterness (on both sides). But it is our only hope.

    And naturally Remainers are entitled to start the campaign to Rejoin, and if they do so, then good luck to them. Going on past examples it should take them about five decades.
    The Remain/Rejoin campaign next time could not be worse than the last one. If they think Brexit is a disaster they only have to look at their campaign for the reason.

    Peak Leaver: a Leaver blaming Remainers for the dreadful decision that they advocated.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,614
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Byronic said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.

    Oh.
    To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.

    eg Germany, Italy, Austria.

    So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
    It makes the timing of the decision to put all current government department spending under review even more inexplicable.
    Not if it is being assessed for "bang for buck". That would be eminently sensible.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,106
    Morning all :)

    A good bet at the odds - do I expect it to be a winning bet? No, in all honesty.

    As you say, Wera starts from the position of being the most entrenched LD MP (as, I think, was Tim Farron after 2015). I confess I don't know a lot about her or her stance on the key issues.

    I suspect Daisy Cooper won't run and I also suspect Layla Moran won't either so it may be a Davey-Hobhouse contest which will be very interesting.

    As to who I would vote for, as always I'll attend the Hustings and make up my mind after listening to the candidates,
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,262
    Byronic said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Byronic said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.

    Oh.
    To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.

    eg Germany, Italy, Austria.

    So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
    The uncertainty is hella a factor. This should have been behind us ages ago.

    However, it is now being addressed.
    Yes, the uncertainty has been lethal. Who can invest or purchase big stuff with that hanging over us?

    It is now, in part, resolved.

    There are other signs that life IS returning. eg House Prices

    https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/economics/12603-uk-house-prices-in-fastest-increase-in-13-years-more-gains-seen-in-2020

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51127329

    I get that many people don't want to see property prices rising again, and I understand that, but they are often an early indicator of renewed economic confidence. We shall see.
    There is greater certainty in that Johnson is clearly opting for a minimal Brexit deal that will see many new barriers to trade, whereas May was trying to avoid those. I doubt that will encourage investment.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    Just dawned on me, if Ed Davey and Keir Starmer win their respective leadership contests, then the Lib Dems and Labour will be led by Knights, whilst the Tories are led by a cad and bounder.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,106
    TheScreamingEagles said:



    I think the bigger problem for Leavers will be that for the next few years is that if anything bad happens economically will be blamed on Brexit, whether justified or not.

    The other problem is that Leavers promised us sunlit uplands, and success equals performance minus anticipation.

    As the old maxim goes oppositions don't win elections, governments lose them, so we could see a normal cyclical recession usher in a pro EU Labour led government.

    Won't that be fun.

    Though we are apparently going to come together as one big, happy united nation in lockstep with the Glorious Boris on February 1st, it'll be fun to blame a blizzard, a poor England football or cricket performance or just stubbing your toe on Brexit.

    We could create a whole new meaning for the word - if you make a huge mistake, you could say "I've just made a Brexit".

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited January 2020
    FF43 said:

    Byronic said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Byronic said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.

    Oh.
    To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.

    eg Germany, Italy, Austria.

    So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
    The uncertainty is hella a factor. This should have been behind us ages ago.

    However, it is now being addressed.
    Yes, the uncertainty has been lethal. Who can invest or purchase big stuff with that hanging over us?

    It is now, in part, resolved.

    There are other signs that life IS returning. eg House Prices

    https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/economics/12603-uk-house-prices-in-fastest-increase-in-13-years-more-gains-seen-in-2020

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51127329

    I get that many people don't want to see property prices rising again, and I understand that, but they are often an early indicator of renewed economic confidence. We shall see.
    There is greater certainty in that Johnson is clearly opting for a minimal Brexit deal that will see many new barriers to trade, whereas May was trying to avoid those. I doubt that will encourage investment.
    Or when you excuse yourself go to the loo you say need to have Brexit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,192
    AlastairMeeks said:

    algarkirk said:

    Byronic said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Byronic said:

    TOPPING said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TOPPING said:



    You seem a bit obsessed with following remainers on twitter. Perhaps time to give yourself a time out.

    Well Byronic voted Remain, so it is understandable he follows his fellow Remainers on twitter.
    That is true - I was put in mind of those preachers who excoriate homosexual activity only for it to turn out that they are indeed and inevitably homosexual themselves.
    There is nothing I regret more than that Remain vote.

    I should have seen the bigger picture. I envy those who had the courage, class and piercing intelligence to vote Leave: they saw the world with greater clarity than I.

    Respect where it's due, therefore, for people like SeanT. You often accuse me of being him, but this is just one example of how he is a much nobler and smarter human being than me, or indeed anyone else on here, or maybe anyone else in western Europe.

    All I can do now is say Sorry, Britain, and work to make the country better, as we break free.
    Thwarted Remainers are twats, agreed, but so are triumphant leavers. Neither fact affects the merits of the vote, any more than No Surrender to the IRA is an adequate response to the Irish issue.
    Some truth in that. But as I've said before, given the abuse hurled at them by Remainers, for the last four years - and long before - it's only human to expect a little gloating and exultation in the Leave/eurosceptic camp, as we actually quit.

    This will rise to a peak on 11pm Jan 31. Hardcore Remainers are probably best advised to abstain from social media. or indeed social intercourse, until that day is past.

    And then - to be serious - on Feb 1 we need to reunite as a country. It won't be easy. After all this bitterness (on both sides). But it is our only hope.

    And naturally Remainers are entitled to start the campaign to Rejoin, and if they do so, then good luck to them. Going on past examples it should take them about five decades.
    The Remain/Rejoin campaign next time could not be worse than the last one. If they think Brexit is a disaster they only have to look at their campaign for the reason.

    Peak Leaver: a Leaver blaming Remainers for the dreadful decision that they advocated.
    Peak Leaver has been somewhat overused. Characteristic would be closer to the mark.

    ‘Peak’ comes at the end of the month. After that, it turns into meeting expectations.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,614
    MikeSmithson said:

    FF43 said:

    Byronic said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Byronic said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Byronic said:

    No "Boris Bounce" in UK retail sales.

    Dire.

    Don't worry, the sales period that includes Black Friday/Cyber Monday and Christmas will be awesome.

    Oh.
    To be fair, several countries in Europe are flirting dangerously with recession.

    eg Germany, Italy, Austria.

    So blaming it on Brexit doesn't necessarily wash (tho it MUST be a factor). But Boris and Dom need to start spending that cash soon, to get the economy motoring.
    The uncertainty is hella a factor. This should have been behind us ages ago.

    However, it is now being addressed.
    Yes, the uncertainty has been lethal. Who can invest or purchase big stuff with that hanging over us?

    It is now, in part, resolved.

    There are other signs that life IS returning. eg House Prices

    https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/economics/12603-uk-house-prices-in-fastest-increase-in-13-years-more-gains-seen-in-2020

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51127329

    I get that many people don't want to see property prices rising again, and I understand that, but they are often an early indicator of renewed economic confidence. We shall see.
    There is greater certainty in that Johnson is clearly opting for a minimal Brexit deal that will see many new barriers to trade, whereas May was trying to avoid those. I doubt that will encourage investment.
    Or when you excuse yourself go to the loo you say need to have Brexit.
    "I'm just going to dump the EU...."
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,106
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Just dawned on me, if Ed Davey and Keir Starmer win their respective leadership contests, then the Lib Dems and Labour will be led by Knights, whilst the Tories are led by a cad and bounder.

    All three parties will also be led by men representing London seats.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,263
    edited January 2020
    I see @ydoethur is moonlighting as the chap in charge of the South Wales Police Roads Policing Unit twitter account.

    https://twitter.com/SWP_Roads/status/1217939621033795584
This discussion has been closed.

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