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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Starmer formally launches his campaign and moves to a 73% chan

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  • Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    Untouchables, ITV4 (Freeview 24/SKY 120/Virgin 118)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    FPT
    Rural Voter said
    'Rural seats like Sedgefield, Bolsover, Don Valley, Blyth Valley, NW Durham won't be returning to Labour. The mines are gone. '

    But those seats were all very comfortably Labour in 2017. I doubt that many mines closed in the period between the 2017 and 2019 elections! If opinion can shift so dramatically in just two and a half years, why can it not swing back over a four to five year period?

    Those mining areas and Northern and Midlands seats voted around 60/65%+

    Labour has a better chance in areas like Watford, Reading, Chingford and Woodford Green, Southampton, Hastings etc which voted only narrowly Leave or Remain and stayed Tory largely on an anti Corbyn vote rather than a pro Boris or pro Brexit vote, especially under a leader like Starmer
    With all due respect you know nothing about northern seats like Blyth Valley.
    With all due respect Blyth Valley voted Tory for the first time since its creation for a reason
    Yeah, and?
    Corbynistas are deluded into thinking they lost because of Brexit. You are deluded into thinking you won because of Brexit.

    You cultists are all the same no matter what colour.
    Over 70% of Leavers voted Tory, less than 50% of Remainers voted Labour and Corbyn was still Labour Leader in 2017 when it was a hung parliament, not a Tory majority,
    Literally irrelevant as usual.
    HYUFD and I have had our moments, and we are in the same party, but it is widely recognised on here that he made some excellent predictions when many called them out as heresy

    He has earned respect, but of course counter arguments are the very essence of this forum
    This is nonsense. HYUFD makes predictions all the time and most of them end up being crap. He gets one thing right and suddenly he’s a genius. Begs belief.
    Now that is where you are wrong I am afraid

    I do not know how long you have been posting but his knowledge is amazing and while he can be annoying, as we all can, he has made several and many predictions which have materalised and if those on here who bet had taken note of them they would have had quite some success

    And remember, HYUFD and I have had some real disagreements, I just think you are being somewhat unfair to be honest



    Revisionist nonsense.
    And FYI I’ve been posting since 2014 and lurking much longer than that.
  • felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foster returns as First Minister:

    Stormont deal: Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill new top NI ministers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51077397

    But these speeches are ominous. They all want different things and seem determined to all try to get them. This could go sour again very quickly.

    I'm glad Stormont is back but both of the main partners are potentially finished and the only reason they are there is to avoid an election. NI is ill-served by both of them.
    I would much rather be washed up on a desert island with Michelle O'Neill than with Arlene Foster. :blush:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    matt said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not saying that Labour will win back Blyth Valley. I’m just saying that being friends and working with the very people @HYUFD claims to speak for, they will not be placated by simply getting “Brexit done” and an “Australian points style system”. As I previously demonstrated there is almost non-existent EU immigration to Blyth.

    What will matter is what @Big_G_NorthWales says. True investment. Real change.

    One recession is all it will take for the Boris sheen to wear off.

    It was Brexit and controlling immigration and Boris they were voting for, if it was investment mainly they would have voted Tory in 2015 when Osborne was proposing his 'Northern powerhouse' or 2017 when May was promising more funds for the regions too
    There is no immigration to Blyth so even if immigration was brought right down (fat chance) then voters in Blyth Valley will not notice any difference. What about this don’t you get?
    There’s no material immigration in (market town near me famous for pork pies). But such as there is appears to major on selling The Big Issue. There’s a reason why Euro immigrants are not seen as an unalloyed benefit.
    I am surprised that you haven't noticed the substantial Polish Community there. Perhaps because they are so well integrated.

    https://www.meltontimes.co.uk/news/the-polish-community-in-melton-1-464680
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    I’m not saying that Labour will win back Blyth Valley. I’m just saying that being friends and working with the very people @HYUFD claims to speak for, they will not be placated by simply getting “Brexit done” and an “Australian points style system”. As I previously demonstrated there is almost non-existent EU immigration to Blyth.

    What will matter is what @Big_G_NorthWales says. True investment. Real change.

    One recession is all it will take for the Boris sheen to wear off.

    I agree but in the target seats

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

    Stroud, Chingford, Hastings, Watford are either well-known marginals or with Chingford, even Wycombe reportedly, are trending Labour. But some remote rural seats that used to have coal mines seem to be trending Tory.

    The effect of recessions - people vote against the government - needs to add the effect of a long-term trend away from one party.

    Near where I live, Brecon and Radnor had a Labour MP 45 years ago. Now the Labour vote is 10%. It's a remote, rural seat.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foster returns as First Minister:

    Stormont deal: Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill new top NI ministers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51077397

    But these speeches are ominous. They all want different things and seem determined to all try to get them. This could go sour again very quickly.

    I'm glad Stormont is back but both of the main partners are potentially finished and the only reason they are there is to avoid an election. NI is ill-served by both of them.
    I would much rather be washed up on a desert island with Michelle O'Neill than with Arlene Foster. :blush:
    The appeal of the over-made up obvious to the virgin.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    FPT
    Rural Voter said
    'Rural seats like Sedgefield, Bolsover, Don Valley, Blyth Valley, NW Durham won't be returning to Labour. The mines are gone. '

    But those seats were all very comfortably Labour in 2017. I doubt that many mines closed in the period between the 2017 and 2019 elections! If opinion can shift so dramatically in just two and a half years, why can it not swing back over a four to five year period?

    Those mining areas and Northern and Midlands seats voted around 60/65%+

    With all due respect you know nothing about northern seats like Blyth Valley.
    With all due respect Blyth Valley voted Tory for the first time since its creation for a reason
    Yeah, and?
    Corbynistas are deluded into thinking they lost because of Brexit. You are deluded into thinking you won because of Brexit.

    You cultists are all the same no matter what colour.
    Over 70% of Leavers voted Tory, less than 50% of Remainers voted Labour and Corbyn was still Labour Leader in 2017 when it was a hung parliament, not a Tory majority,
    Literally irrelevant as usual.
    HYUFD and I have had our moments, and we are in the same party, but it is widely recognised on here that he made some excellent predictions when many called them out as heresy

    He has earned respect, but of course counter arguments are the very essence of this forum
    This is nonsense. HYUFD makes predictions all the time and most of them end up being crap. He gets one thing right and suddenly he’s a genius. Begs belief.
    Now that is where you are wrong I am afraid

    I do not know how long you have been posting but his knowledge is amazing and while he can be annoying, as we all can, he has made several and many predictions which have materalised and if those on here who bet had taken note of them they would have had quite some success

    And remember, HYUFD and I have had some real disagreements, I just think you are being somewhat unfair to be honest



    Revisionist nonsense.
    And FYI I’ve been posting since 2014 and lurking much longer than that.
    You do seem to have a thing against HYUFD but there we are

    Thanks for your info
  • Foxy said:

    matt said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    FPT
    Rural Voter said
    'Rural seats like Sedgefield, Bolsover, Don Valley, Blyth Valley, NW Durham won't be returning to Labour. The mines are gone. '

    But those seats were all very comfortably Labour in 2017. I doubt that many mines closed in the period between the 2017 and 2019 elections! If opinion can shift so dramatically in just two and a half years, why can it not swing back over a four to five year period?

    Those mining areas and Northern and Midlands seats voted around 60/65%+ Leave, they are socially conservative and pro Brexit and cast a pro Boris, not just an anti Corbyn vote. They are the British equivalent of the likes of Michigan, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania ie former Democratic states with lots of mining towns that went strongly Trump or Queensland in Australia which has has an economy built on mines and voted for Kevin Rudd in 2007 but have now swung strongly to Morrison and the coalition, all equally socially conservative, suspicious of globalisation and largely white working class.

    Labour has a better chance in areas like Watford, Reading, Chingford and Woodford Green, Southampton, Hastings etc which voted only narrowly Leave or Remain and stayed Tory largely on an anti Corbyn vote rather than a pro Boris or pro Brexit vote, especially under a leader like Starmer
    With all due respect you know nothing about northern seats like Blyth Valley.
    With respect it looks like labour do not know about northern seats either
    @HYUFD is .
    I am not so sure.

    UK
    The interesting rumour that I am hearing is that Soulamani was in Baghdad to meet with senior Iraqi government figures who were acting as go betweens trying to broker talks with the Saudis. Indeed that is how the Yanks knew he was flying in.
    Where does that rumour come from?
    An Iraqi friend, who follows the events on Iraqi media. No friend of the Iranians either, she wants them out of her country.
    "Time for Peace. Time to Go."
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    @rural_voter you’re right but Blyth is too close to Newcastle to ever be considered a ‘rural tory’ seat. The coal mine link is not really relevant. It’s likely to be a swing-seat like those in the midlands as it gentrifies into a Newcastle commuter town.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    FPT
    Rural Voter said
    'Rural seats like Sedgefield, Bolsover, Don Valley, Blyth Valley, NW Durham won't be returning to Labour. The mines are gone. '

    But those seats were all very comfortably Labour in 2017. I doubt that many mines closed in the period between the 2017 and 2019 elections! If opinion can shift so dramatically in just two and a half years, why can it not swing back over a four to five year period?

    Those mining areas and Northern and Midlands seats voted around 60/65%+ Leave, they are socially conservative and pro Brexit and cast a pro Boris, not just an anti Corbyn vote. They are the British equivalent of the likes of Michigan, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania ie former Democratic states with lots of mining towns that went strongly Trump or Queensland in Australia which has has an economy built on mines and voted for Kevin Rudd in 2007 but have now swung strongly to Morrison and the coalition, all equally socially conservative, suspicious of globalisation and largely white working class.

    Labour has a better chance in areas like Watford, Reading, Chingford and Woodford Green, Southampton, Hastings etc which voted only narrowly Leave or Remain and stayed Tory largely on an anti Corbyn vote rather than a pro Boris or pro Brexit vote, especially under a leader like Starmer
    With all due respect you know nothing about northern seats like Blyth Valley.
    With respect it looks like labour do not know about northern seats either
    @HYUFD is so arrogant he claims to speak for the former red wall but he doesn’t have a clue. This will also be Boris’s downfall. Thinks he’s outside the ‘Westminster’ bubble but in fact is fetishizing the north just as much as Labour are.
    Sedgefield is now 61st on the Labour target list, Bolsover 67th, Rother Valley 76th, Penistone and Stockbridge 89th, Ashfield 90th, Scunthorpe 102nd, Bishop Auckland 105th, Great Grimsby 134th.

    .
    But those seats have swung massively over a short period of time. How stable was that shift? Perhaps the Tory majorities which have suddenly appeared there really flatter to deceive! A bit like LibDem surges - easy come easy go!
    I am also reminded of the disastrous 1990 Local Elections for the Tories - Wandsworth and Westminster excepted.It was based very much on Thatcher and the Poll Tax. A year later the Tories had a new leader and the Poll Tax was in the process of being replaced by the Council Tax. The Tories performed much better at the 1991 Local Elections - and the issue did not figure prominently at the 1992 GE.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    I can highly recommend "Bait" on the BFI player website. It is on the subscription bit, but the first two weeks are a free trial.

    It is Mark Kermodes British film of the year, possibly decade.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/subscription/film/watch-bait-2018-online
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    I’m not saying that Labour will win back Blyth Valley. I’m just saying that being friends and working with the very people @HYUFD claims to speak for, they will not be placated by simply getting “Brexit done” and an “Australian points style system”. As I previously demonstrated there is almost non-existent EU immigration to Blyth.

    What will matter is what @Big_G_NorthWales says. True investment. Real change.

    One recession is all it will take for the Boris sheen to wear off.

    I agree but in the target seats

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

    Stroud, Chingford, Hastings, Watford are either well-known marginals or with Chingford, even Wycombe reportedly, are trending Labour. But some remote rural seats that used to have coal mines seem to be trending Tory.

    The effect of recessions - people vote against the government - needs to add the effect of a long-term trend away from one party.

    Near where I live, Brecon and Radnor had a Labour MP 45 years ago. Now the Labour vote is 10%. It's a remote, rural seat.
    But Labour's vote is artificially low there now due to tactical voting - ie many Labour people vote LibDem to defeat the Tories.The seat also had different boundaries pre-1983.
  • matt said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
    Not nice?
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    justin124 said:

    I’m not saying that Labour will win back Blyth Valley. I’m just saying that being friends and working with the very people @HYUFD claims to speak for, they will not be placated by simply getting “Brexit done” and an “Australian points style system”. As I previously demonstrated there is almost non-existent EU immigration to Blyth.

    What will matter is what @Big_G_NorthWales says. True investment. Real change.

    One recession is all it will take for the Boris sheen to wear off.

    I agree but in the target seats

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

    Stroud, Chingford, Hastings, Watford are either well-known marginals or with Chingford, even Wycombe reportedly, are trending Labour. But some remote rural seats that used to have coal mines seem to be trending Tory.

    The effect of recessions - people vote against the government - needs to add the effect of a long-term trend away from one party.

    Near where I live, Brecon and Radnor had a Labour MP 45 years ago. Now the Labour vote is 10%. It's a remote, rural seat.
    But Labour's vote is artificially low there now due to tactical voting - ie many Labour people vote LibDem to defeat the Tories.The seat also had different boundaries pre-1983.
    Who do assume that there are “Labour people”? People who will vote Labour if only.....
  • Foxy said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    I can highly recommend "Bait" on the BFI player website. It is on the subscription bit, but the first two weeks are a free trial.

    It is Mark Kermodes British film of the year, possibly decade.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/subscription/film/watch-bait-2018-online
    I've heard of him, the Film critic.
  • felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foster returns as First Minister:

    Stormont deal: Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill new top NI ministers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51077397

    But these speeches are ominous. They all want different things and seem determined to all try to get them. This could go sour again very quickly.

    I'm glad Stormont is back but both of the main partners are potentially finished and the only reason they are there is to avoid an election. NI is ill-served by both of them.
    I would much rather be washed up on a desert island with Michelle O'Neill than with Arlene Foster. :blush:
    What would you do to her?
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Foxy said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    I can highly recommend "Bait" on the BFI player website. It is on the subscription bit, but the first two weeks are a free trial.

    It is Mark Kermodes British film of the year, possibly decade.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/subscription/film/watch-bait-2018-online
    I've heard of him, the Film critic.
    Kermode is a cock, loved by people of a similar disposition.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    FPT
    Rural Voter said
    'Rural seats like Sedgefield, Bolsover, Don Valley, Blyth Valley, NW Durham won't be returning to Labour. The mines are gone. '

    But those seats were all very comfortably Labour in 2017. I doubt that many mines closed in the period between the 2017 and 2019 elections! If opinion can shift so dramatically in just two and a half years, why can it not swing back over a four to five year period?

    Those mining areas and Northern and Midlands seats voted around 60/65%+ Leave, they are socially conservative and pro Brexit and cast a pro Boris, not just an anti Corbyn vote. They are the British equivalent of the likes of Michigan, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania ie former Democratic states with lots of mining towns that went strongly Trump or Queensland in Australia which has has an economy built on mines and voted for Kevin Rudd in 2007 but have now swung strongly to Morrison and the coalition, all equally socially conservative, suspicious of globalisation and largely white working class.

    Labour has a better chance in areas like Watford, Reading, Chingford and Woodford Green, Southampton, Hastings etc which voted only narrowly Leave or Remain and stayed Tory largely on an anti Corbyn vote rather than a pro Boris or pro Brexit vote, especially under a leader like Starmer
    With all due respect you know nothing about northern seats like Blyth Valley.
    With respect it looks like labour do not know about northern seats either
    @HYUFD is so arrogant he claims to speak for the former red wall but he doesn’t have a clue. This will also be Boris’s downfall. Thinks he’s outside the ‘Westminster’ bubble but in fact is fetishizing the north just as much as Labour are.
    You are a one trick pony..
    Thank you.
    Well its true. Isnt it... your almost sole purpose in life is to attack HYUFD.
    Not true. I could tell you about heat pumps and other forms of renewable heating.
    But you don't post about heatpumps or anything ekse for that matter.. not that i have seen anyway.. You would find way to attack HYUFD.. ...
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    FPT
    Rural Voter said
    'Rural seats like Sedgefield, Bolsover, Don Valley, Blyth Valley, NW Durham won't be returning to Labour. The mines are gone. '

    But those seats were all very comfortably Labour in 2017. I doubt that many mines closed in the period between the 2017 and 2019 elections! If opinion can shift so dramatically in just two and a half years, why can it not swing back over a four to five year period?

    Those mining areas and Northern and Midlands seats voted around 60/65%+ Leave, they are socially conservative and pro Brexit and cast a pro Boris, not just an anti Corbyn vote. They are the British equivalent of the likes of Michigan, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania ie former Democratic states with lots of mining towns that went strongly Trump or Queensland in Australia which has has an economy built on mines and voted for Kevin Rudd in 2007 but have now swung strongly to Morrison and the coalition, all equally socially conservative, suspicious of globalisation and largely white working class.

    Labour has a better chance in areas like Watford, Reading, Chingford and Woodford Green, Southampton, Hastings etc which voted only narrowly Leave or Remain and stayed Tory largely on an anti Corbyn vote rather than a pro Boris or pro Brexit vote, especially under a leader like Starmer
    With all due respect you know nothing about northern seats like Blyth Valley.
    With respect it looks like labour do not know about northern seats either
    @HYUFD is so arrogant he claims to speak for the former red wall but he doesn’t have a clue. This will also be Boris’s downfall. Thinks he’s outside the ‘Westminster’ bubble but in fact is fetishizing the north just as much as Labour are.
    You are a one trick pony..
    Thank you.
    Well its true. Isnt it... your almost sole purpose in life is to attack HYUFD.
    Not true. I could tell you about heat pumps and other forms of renewable heating.
    But you don't post about heatpumps or anything ekse for that matter.. not that i have seen anyway.. You would find way to attack HYUFD.. ...
    Thank you for the feedback.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foster returns as First Minister:

    Stormont deal: Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill new top NI ministers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51077397

    But these speeches are ominous. They all want different things and seem determined to all try to get them. This could go sour again very quickly.

    I'm glad Stormont is back but both of the main partners are potentially finished and the only reason they are there is to avoid an election. NI is ill-served by both of them.
    I would much rather be washed up on a desert island with Michelle O'Neill than with Arlene Foster. :blush:
    What would you do to her?
    Reinstate her foundation, which appears to be 2cm thick?
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited January 2020
    Foxy said:

    matt said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not saying that Labour will win back Blyth Valley. I’m just saying that being friends and working with the very people @HYUFD claims to speak for, they will not be placated by simply getting “Brexit done” and an “Australian points style system”. As I previously demonstrated there is almost non-existent EU immigration to Blyth.

    What will matter is what @Big_G_NorthWales says. True investment. Real change.

    One recession is all it will take for the Boris sheen to wear off.

    It was Brexit and controlling immigration and Boris they were voting for, if it was investment mainly they would have voted Tory in 2015 when Osborne was proposing his 'Northern powerhouse' or 2017 when May was promising more funds for the regions too
    There is no immigration to Blyth so even if immigration was brought right down (fat chance) then voters in Blyth Valley will not notice any difference. What about this don’t you get?
    There’s no material immigration in (market town near me famous for pork pies). But such as there is appears to major on selling The Big Issue. There’s a reason why Euro immigrants are not seen as an unalloyed benefit.
    I am surprised that you haven't noticed the substantial Polish Community there. Perhaps because they are so well integrated.

    https://www.meltontimes.co.uk/news/the-polish-community-in-melton-1-464680
    When was the last time you were there? Feel free to search Google for your answer.

    Edit, I’ve opened the link. It’s 2007, you internet surfing know all.
  • matt said:

    Foxy said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    I can highly recommend "Bait" on the BFI player website. It is on the subscription bit, but the first two weeks are a free trial.

    It is Mark Kermodes British film of the year, possibly decade.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/subscription/film/watch-bait-2018-online
    I've heard of him, the Film critic.
    Kermode is a cock, loved by people of a similar disposition.
    True.
  • matt said:

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foster returns as First Minister:

    Stormont deal: Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill new top NI ministers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51077397

    But these speeches are ominous. They all want different things and seem determined to all try to get them. This could go sour again very quickly.

    I'm glad Stormont is back but both of the main partners are potentially finished and the only reason they are there is to avoid an election. NI is ill-served by both of them.
    I would much rather be washed up on a desert island with Michelle O'Neill than with Arlene Foster. :blush:
    What would you do to her?
    Reinstate her foundation, which appears to be 2cm thick?
    There you are now.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    UK ambassador arrested in Tehran.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,112
    edited January 2020

    UK ambassador arrested in Tehran.

    Really.

    You missed out and released
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    UK ambassador arrested in Tehran.

    Really.
    Insufficiently Scottish. They would have let him go as a higher moral being if so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited January 2020
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    FPT
    Rural Voter said
    'Rural seats like Sedgefield, Bolsover, Don Valley, Blyth Valley, NW Durham won't be returning to Labour. The mines are gone. '

    But those seats were all very comfortably Labour in 2017. I doubt that many mines closed in the period between the 2017 and 2019 elections! If opinion can shift so dramatically in just two and a half years, why can it not swing back over a four to five year period?

    Those mining areas and Northern and Midlands seats voted around 60/65%+ Leave, they are socially conservative and pro Brexit and cast a pro Boris, not just an anti Corbyn vote. They are the British equivalent of the likes of Michigan, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania ie former Democratic states with lots of mining towns that went strongly Trump or Queensland in Australia which has has an economy built on mines and voted for Kevin Rudd in 2007 but have now swung strongly to Morrison and the coalition, all equally socially conservative, suspicious of globalisation and largely e Starmer
    With all due respect you know nothing about northern seats like Blyth Valley.
    With respect it looks like labour do not know about northern seats either
    @HYUFD is so arrogant he claims to speak for the former red wall but he doesn’t have a clue. This will also be Boris’s downfall. Thinks he’s outside the ‘Westminster’ bubble but in fact is fetishizing the north just as much as Labour are.
    Sedgefield is now 61st on the Labour target list, Bolsover 67th, Rother Valley 76th, Penistone and Stockbridge 89th, Ashfield 90th, Scunthorpe 102nd, Bishop Auckland 105th, Great Grimsby 134th.

    .
    But those seats have swung massively over a short period of time. How stable was that shift? Perhaps the Tory majorities which have suddenly appeared there really flatter to deceive! A bit like LibDem surges - easy come easy go!
    I am also reminded of the disastrous 1990 Local Elections for the Tories - Wandsworth and Westminster excepted.It was based very much on Thatcher and the Poll Tax. A year later the Tories had a new leader and the Poll Tax was in the process of being replaced by the Council Tax. The Tories performed much better at the 1991 Local Elections - and the issue did not figure prominently at the 1992 GE.
    All those rural and small town Northern and Midlands seats have seen above average swings to the Tories over the last decade, London and some urban Southern seats have tended to see above average swings against the Tories, I doubt that will change
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228
    FPT:
    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Your trade deficit, or surplus, is the consequence of your household savings rate. It is nothing to do with your free trade agreements.

    We have a trade deficit, as a country, because we consume more than we make.

    Swapping an FTA with the EU for one with the US will not change or trade deficit, all it will mean is that we drink more American wine, and less French. To actually lower the trade deficit would require Brits to actually drink less.

    Or drink wine from Sussex, Cornwall and, hard to believe, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.....
    Sure. But the land in Sussex, Cornwall and Derbyshire is not currently unused. It's being used for something else. If its owners aren't using it to grow grapes, that might be because something else makes more economic sense.

    And if we swap beef or wheat or whatever for grapes, we'll now have a shortfall in those things that will need to be made up for by imports.

    There has only ever been one successful strategy for closing a trade deficit: suppression of consumption. (Or, to put it another way, the encouragement of saving.)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    matt said:

    Foxy said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    I can highly recommend "Bait" on the BFI player website. It is on the subscription bit, but the first two weeks are a free trial.

    It is Mark Kermodes British film of the year, possibly decade.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/subscription/film/watch-bait-2018-online
    I've heard of him, the Film critic.
    Kermode is a cock, loved by people of a similar disposition.
    Possibly so, but he is very good on the subject of film. His recent BBC series on Secrets of Cinema were very illuminating.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    edited January 2020
    On topic:

    image
  • matt said:

    Foxy said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    I can highly recommend "Bait" on the BFI player website. It is on the subscription bit, but the first two weeks are a free trial.

    It is Mark Kermodes British film of the year, possibly decade.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/subscription/film/watch-bait-2018-online
    I've heard of him, the Film critic.
    Kermode is a cock, loved by people of a similar disposition.
    Mark Commode?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    matt said:

    Foxy said:

    matt said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not saying that Labour will win back Blyth Valley. I’m just saying that being friends and working with the very people @HYUFD claims to speak for, they will not be placated by simply getting “Brexit done” and an “Australian points style system”. As I previously demonstrated there is almost non-existent EU immigration to Blyth.

    What will matter is what @Big_G_NorthWales says. True investment. Real change.

    One recession is all it will take for the Boris sheen to wear off.

    It was Brexit and controlling immigration and Boris they were voting for, if it was investment mainly they would have voted Tory in 2015 when Osborne was proposing his 'Northern powerhouse' or 2017 when May was promising more funds for the regions too
    There is no immigration to Blyth so even if immigration was brought right down (fat chance) then voters in Blyth Valley will not notice any difference. What about this don’t you get?
    There’s no material immigration in (market town near me famous for pork pies). But such as there is appears to major on selling The Big Issue. There’s a reason why Euro immigrants are not seen as an unalloyed benefit.
    I am surprised that you haven't noticed the substantial Polish Community there. Perhaps because they are so well integrated.

    https://www.meltontimes.co.uk/news/the-polish-community-in-melton-1-464680
    When was the last time you were there? Feel free to search Google for your answer.

    Edit, I’ve opened the link. It’s 2007, you internet surfing know all.
    I have lived in Leicestershire more than a quarter century. I used to do a weekly clinic in Melton, and my lawyer is there.

    The 2007 article is about Polish migration to Melton, both post war and post 2004. There was a fresh influx to the established community.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foster returns as First Minister:

    Stormont deal: Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill new top NI ministers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51077397

    But these speeches are ominous. They all want different things and seem determined to all try to get them. This could go sour again very quickly.

    I'm glad Stormont is back but both of the main partners are potentially finished and the only reason they are there is to avoid an election. NI is ill-served by both of them.
    I would much rather be washed up on a desert island with Michelle O'Neill than with Arlene Foster. :blush:
    Yes - MON would feed you for longer even if your cholesterol might go up a bit.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scottish Labour turn down leader’s federal UK strategy
    Richard Leonard’s alternative to independence was rejected by the party’s ruling body

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/11/scottish-labour-turn-down-leaders-proposal-for-federal-uk
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228
    New polls out in the US today, for New Hampshire and Nevada.

    The first brings good news for Biden, who holds a very narrow lead (21% vs 19% over Sanders. The second reverses it, with a 29% vs 28% lead for Biden.

    I have my doubts about the NH poll, as its combined Sanders + Warren vote share is just 29%, which seems really low.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Your trade deficit, or surplus, is the consequence of your household savings rate. It is nothing to do with your free trade agreements.

    We have a trade deficit, as a country, because we consume more than we make.

    Swapping an FTA with the EU for one with the US will not change or trade deficit, all it will mean is that we drink more American wine, and less French. To actually lower the trade deficit would require Brits to actually drink less.

    Or drink wine from Sussex, Cornwall and, hard to believe, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.....
    Sure. But the land in Sussex, Cornwall and Derbyshire is not currently unused. It's being used for something else. If its owners aren't using it to grow grapes, that might be because something else makes more economic sense.

    And if we swap beef or wheat or whatever for grapes, we'll now have a shortfall in those things that will need to be made up for by imports.

    There has only ever been one successful strategy for closing a trade deficit: suppression of consumption. (Or, to put it another way, the encouragement of saving.)
    Without wishing to go down a rabbit hole, it’s a question of value (without taking into account CAP and non-use through set aside.)

    More pertinently, one should remember that the most important type of banana, globally, was bred in Derbyshire. Cavendish.
  • On topic:

    image

    No can do, I'm in Northern Ireland.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    matt said:

    justin124 said:

    I’m not saying that Labour will win back Blyth Valley. I’m just saying that being friends and working with the very people @HYUFD claims to speak for, they will not be placated by simply getting “Brexit done” and an “Australian points style system”. As I previously demonstrated there is almost non-existent EU immigration to Blyth.

    What will matter is what @Big_G_NorthWales says. True investment. Real change.

    One recession is all it will take for the Boris sheen to wear off.

    I agree but in the target seats

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

    Stroud, Chingford, Hastings, Watford are either well-known marginals or with Chingford, even Wycombe reportedly, are trending Labour. But some remote rural seats that used to have coal mines seem to be trending Tory.

    The effect of recessions - people vote against the government - needs to add the effect of a long-term trend away from one party.

    Near where I live, Brecon and Radnor had a Labour MP 45 years ago. Now the Labour vote is 10%. It's a remote, rural seat.
    But Labour's vote is artificially low there now due to tactical voting - ie many Labour people vote LibDem to defeat the Tories.The seat also had different boundaries pre-1983.
    Who do assume that there are “Labour people”? People who will vote Labour if only.....
    They voted Labour there in significant numbers until 1997 by which time they increasingly became receptive to the LD message that 'a Labour vote here helps the Tories win.'
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Foxy said:

    matt said:

    Foxy said:

    matt said:

    HYUFD said:

    I’m not saying that Labour will win back Blyth Valley. I’m just saying that being friends and working with the very people @HYUFD claims to speak for, they will not be placated by simply getting “Brexit done” and an “Australian points style system”. As I previously demonstrated there is almost non-existent EU immigration to Blyth.

    What will matter is what @Big_G_NorthWales says. True investment. Real change.

    One recession is all it will take for the Boris sheen to wear off.

    It was Brexit and controlling immigration and Boris they were voting for, if it was investment mainly they would have voted Tory in 2015 when Osborne was proposing his 'Northern powerhouse' or 2017 when May was promising more funds for the regions too
    There is no immigration to Blyth so even if immigration was brought right down (fat chance) then voters in Blyth Valley will not notice any difference. What about this don’t you get?
    There’s no material immigration in (market town near me famous for pork pies). But such as there is appears to major on selling The Big Issue. There’s a reason why Euro immigrants are not seen as an unalloyed benefit.
    I am surprised that you haven't noticed the substantial Polish Community there. Perhaps because they are so well integrated.

    https://www.meltontimes.co.uk/news/the-polish-community-in-melton-1-464680
    When was the last time you were there? Feel free to search Google for your answer.

    Edit, I’ve opened the link. It’s 2007, you internet surfing know all.
    I have lived in Leicestershire more than a quarter century. I used to do a weekly clinic in Melton, and my lawyer is there.

    The 2007 article is about Polish migration to Melton, both post war and post 2004. There was a fresh influx to the established community.
    No date, then. Just pathetic outrage.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    TGOHF666 said:
    Some Trump supporters will probably think that the “moslims” have taken over.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Foxy said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    I can highly recommend "Bait" on the BFI player website. It is on the subscription bit, but the first two weeks are a free trial.

    It is Mark Kermodes British film of the year, possibly decade.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/subscription/film/watch-bait-2018-online
    Massively overhyped piece of student art-house film-making, IMHO.
  • felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foster returns as First Minister:

    Stormont deal: Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill new top NI ministers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51077397

    But these speeches are ominous. They all want different things and seem determined to all try to get them. This could go sour again very quickly.

    I'm glad Stormont is back but both of the main partners are potentially finished and the only reason they are there is to avoid an election. NI is ill-served by both of them.
    I would much rather be washed up on a desert island with Michelle O'Neill than with Arlene Foster. :blush:
    What would you do to her?
    "That is not your business!" :blush:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228
    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Your trade deficit, or surplus, is the consequence of your household savings rate. It is nothing to do with your free trade agreements.

    We have a trade deficit, as a country, because we consume more than we make.

    Swapping an FTA with the EU for one with the US will not change or trade deficit, all it will mean is that we drink more American wine, and less French. To actually lower the trade deficit would require Brits to actually drink less.

    Or drink wine from Sussex, Cornwall and, hard to believe, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.....
    Sure. But the land in Sussex, Cornwall and Derbyshire is not currently unused. It's being used for something else. If its owners aren't using it to grow grapes, that might be because something else makes more economic sense.

    And if we swap beef or wheat or whatever for grapes, we'll now have a shortfall in those things that will need to be made up for by imports.

    There has only ever been one successful strategy for closing a trade deficit: suppression of consumption. (Or, to put it another way, the encouragement of saving.)
    Without wishing to go down a rabbit hole, it’s a question of value (without taking into account CAP and non-use through set aside.)

    More pertinently, one should remember that the most important type of banana, globally, was bred in Derbyshire. Cavendish.
    My point is a simple one, though: if we switch from an FTA with the EU to one with the US, then that would make no difference to our trade deficit.

    Because trade deficits (and surpluses) are not a consequence of trade policy and tariffs, but of household savings rates.

    We - as people - demand things. The FTAs we have determine where the cheapest place to buy those things is. So, in the event of an FTA with the US (and not one with the EU), we would import more cars from the US, and fewer from Europe.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    matt said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
    Not nice?
    Needed somebody to tell Marty "cut an hour and a half out".
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foster returns as First Minister:

    Stormont deal: Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill new top NI ministers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51077397

    But these speeches are ominous. They all want different things and seem determined to all try to get them. This could go sour again very quickly.

    I'm glad Stormont is back but both of the main partners are potentially finished and the only reason they are there is to avoid an election. NI is ill-served by both of them.
    I would much rather be washed up on a desert island with Michelle O'Neill than with Arlene Foster. :blush:
    What would you do to her?
    Something with fava beans ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228
    rcs1000 said:

    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Your trade deficit, or surplus, is the consequence of your household savings rate. It is nothing to do with your free trade agreements.

    We have a trade deficit, as a country, because we consume more than we make.

    Swapping an FTA with the EU for one with the US will not change or trade deficit, all it will mean is that we drink more American wine, and less French. To actually lower the trade deficit would require Brits to actually drink less.

    Or drink wine from Sussex, Cornwall and, hard to believe, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.....
    Sure. But the land in Sussex, Cornwall and Derbyshire is not currently unused. It's being used for something else. If its owners aren't using it to grow grapes, that might be because something else makes more economic sense.

    And if we swap beef or wheat or whatever for grapes, we'll now have a shortfall in those things that will need to be made up for by imports.

    There has only ever been one successful strategy for closing a trade deficit: suppression of consumption. (Or, to put it another way, the encouragement of saving.)
    Without wishing to go down a rabbit hole, it’s a question of value (without taking into account CAP and non-use through set aside.)

    More pertinently, one should remember that the most important type of banana, globally, was bred in Derbyshire. Cavendish.
    My point is a simple one, though: if we switch from an FTA with the EU to one with the US, then that would make no difference to our trade deficit.

    Because trade deficits (and surpluses) are not a consequence of trade policy and tariffs, but of household savings rates.

    We - as people - demand things. The FTAs we have determine where the cheapest place to buy those things is. So, in the event of an FTA with the US (and not one with the EU), we would import more cars from the US, and fewer from Europe.
    Of course, as Michael Pettis has persuasively argued, tariffs work like any other value added tax, and therefore increase the cost of consumption relative to saving. They therefore can have the impact of a modest lowering of trade deficits.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited January 2020

    matt said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
    Not nice?
    Needed somebody to tell Marty "cut an hour and a half out".
    The impression is that he does’t understand that less can mean more. It was beyond dull.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    FPT
    Rural Voter said
    'Rural seats like Sedgefield, Bolsover, Don Valley, Blyth Valley, NW Durham won't be returning to Labour. The mines are gone. '

    But those seats were all very comfortably Labour in 2017. I doubt that many mines closed in the period between the 2017 and 2019 elections! If opinion can shift so dramatically in just two and a half years, why can it not swing back over a four to five year period?

    With all due respect you know nothing about northern seats like Blyth Valley.
    With respect it looks like labour do not know about northern seats either
    @HYUFD is so arrogant he claims to speak for the former red wall but he doesn’t have a clue. This will also be Boris’s downfall. Thinks he’s outside the ‘Westminster’ bubble but in fact is fetishizing the north just as much as Labour are.
    Sedgefield is now 61st on the Labour target list, Bolsover 67th, Rother Valley 76th, Penistone and Stockbridge 89th, Ashfield 90th, Scunthorpe 102nd, Bishop Auckland 105th, Great Grimsby 134th.

    .
    But those seats have swung massively over a short period of time. How stable was that shift? Perhaps the Tory majorities which have suddenly appeared there really flatter to deceive! A bit like LibDem surges - easy come easy go!
    I am also reminded of the disastrous 1990 Local Elections for the Tories - Wandsworth and Westminster excepted.It was based very much on Thatcher and the Poll Tax. A year later the Tories had a new leader and the Poll Tax was in the process of being replaced by the Council Tax. The Tories performed much better at the 1991 Local Elections - and the issue did not figure prominently at the 1992 GE.
    All those rural and small town Northern and Midlands seats have seen above average swings to the Tories over the last decade, London and some urban Southern seats have tended to see above average swings against the Tories, I doubt that will change
    I don't doubt that there are demographic factors in play - but sudden shifts often do not last. Labour gains in 1997 in places such as Wellingborough- Welwyn & Hatfield - St Albans - Norfolk NW etc- did not prove permanent , just as the many traditional Local Authorities lost by the Tories 1994 - 1996 subsequently swung back .
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    rcs1000 said:

    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Your trade deficit, or surplus, is the consequence of your household savings rate. It is nothing to do with your free trade agreements.

    We have a trade deficit, as a country, because we consume more than we make.

    Swapping an FTA with the EU for one with the US will not change or trade deficit, all it will mean is that we drink more American wine, and less French. To actually lower the trade deficit would require Brits to actually drink less.

    Or drink wine from Sussex, Cornwall and, hard to believe, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.....
    Sure. But the land in Sussex, Cornwall and Derbyshire is not currently unused. It's being used for something else. If its owners aren't using it to grow grapes, that might be because something else makes more economic sense.

    And if we swap beef or wheat or whatever for grapes, we'll now have a shortfall in those things that will need to be made up for by imports.

    There has only ever been one successful strategy for closing a trade deficit: suppression of consumption. (Or, to put it another way, the encouragement of saving.)
    Without wishing to go down a rabbit hole, it’s a question of value (without taking into account CAP and non-use through set aside.)

    More pertinently, one should remember that the most important type of banana, globally, was bred in Derbyshire. Cavendish.
    My point is a simple one, though: if we switch from an FTA with the EU to one with the US, then that would make no difference to our trade deficit.

    Because trade deficits (and surpluses) are not a consequence of trade policy and tariffs, but of household savings rates.

    We - as people - demand things. The FTAs we have determine where the cheapest place to buy those things is. So, in the event of an FTA with the US (and not one with the EU), we would import more cars from the US, and fewer from Europe.
    I think you make a very good point that lay people and politicians don't appreciate. But I think you overstate it. The household savings rate, the government savings rate and the current account all need to come to equilibrium. They all push against each other. But it's not one of the three being a purely independent variable and another one being dependent on it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    TGOHF666 said:
    How does one get across Trump's idiosyncratic overuse of ALLCAPS in arabic?
  • First, Blair explicitly rejects the idea Labour lost because of Corbyn personally, which is partly what I was getting at below.

    But I do wonder if we can draw a straight line from Blair over Iraq, through the bankers' bail-out after the GFC, through the expenses scandal, through austerity, through Brexit, to Boris's election victory (and also to Labour nearly pulling it off in 2017). That line being the electorate told they don't matter, that the rules don't apply to the Establishment, that it's one law for the them and another for us. As Dominic Cummings said, Take Back Control.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    TGOHF666 said:
    I am sure people in Iran will find it utterly convincing shortly after he promised to destroy their most loved cultural heritage sites. And to endlessly occupy the country next door even when they no longer want the US present.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    matt said:

    matt said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
    Not nice?
    Needed somebody to tell Marty "cut an hour and a half out".
    The impression is that he does’t understand that less can mean more. It was beyond dull.

    The last 45 minutes added nothing. Literally, nothing.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Gabs3 said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    I am sure people in Iran will find it utterly convincing shortly after he promised to destroy their most loved cultural heritage sites. And to endlessly occupy the country next door even when they no longer want the US present.
    https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1216114135529902081?s=21

    #winning
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    matt said:

    matt said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
    Not nice?
    Needed somebody to tell Marty "cut an hour and a half out".
    The impression is that he does’t understand that less can mean more. It was beyond dull.
    The last 45 minutes added nothing. Literally, nothing.

    Mark Kermode gave it 4* though....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    I can highly recommend "Bait" on the BFI player website. It is on the subscription bit, but the first two weeks are a free trial.

    It is Mark Kermodes British film of the year, possibly decade.

    https://player.bfi.org.uk/subscription/film/watch-bait-2018-online
    Massively overhyped piece of student art-house film-making, IMHO.
    I rather liked it. It is rather more subtle and nuanced than I expected. I expect it to pick up awards this season.

    It does have a rather contrived hipster artisanal feel at times, but that in itself is part of its critique of modern Cornish life. Very fitting for a year of British culture clash.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836

    First, Blair explicitly rejects the idea Labour lost because of Corbyn personally, which is partly what I was getting at below.

    But I do wonder if we can draw a straight line from Blair over Iraq, through the bankers' bail-out after the GFC, through the expenses scandal, through austerity, through Brexit, to Boris's election victory (and also to Labour nearly pulling it off in 2017). That line being the electorate told they don't matter, that the rules don't apply to the Establishment, that it's one law for the them and another for us. As Dominic Cummings said, Take Back Control.
    "One law for them and another for us" is 100% the driver of populism in country after country. I would add to that list the paedophilia scandals. Jeffrey Epstein was close enough to the rich and powerful ( Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew, Donald Trump etc for them to ride on his plane) and Epstein apparently abused young girls for decades with apparently no scrutiny. When he eventually got his comeuppance he died in his cell in a supposed suicide before he could implicate others. It just so happens that the checks on him weren't done. The video cameras had a malfunction. A supposed previous suicide attempt had the wrong footage kept. The backup footage lost because of a technical mistake. The Attorney General of the US concludes it was all a series of unfortunate coincidences.

    Is the man on the street supposed to believe this? People increasingly feel they are being taken for fools.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Gabs3 said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    I am sure people in Iran will find it utterly convincing shortly after he promised to destroy their most loved cultural heritage sites. And to endlessly occupy the country next door even when they no longer want the US present.
    Ignoring that though, what does, in the British context, most loved cultural heritage sites mean. Should one begin with Baedecker, with the Times or Guardian cultural pages? Is culture a building or a person?
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Your trade deficit, or surplus, is the consequence of your household savings rate. It is nothing to do with your free trade agreements.

    We have a trade deficit, as a country, because we consume more than we make.

    Swapping an FTA with the EU for one with the US will not change or trade deficit, all it will mean is that we drink more American wine, and less French. To actually lower the trade deficit would require Brits to actually drink less.

    Or drink wine from Sussex, Cornwall and, hard to believe, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.....
    Sure. But the land in Sussex, Cornwall and Derbyshire is not currently unused. It's being used for something else. If its owners aren't using it to grow grapes, that might be because something else makes more economic sense.

    And if we swap beef or wheat or whatever for grapes, we'll now have a shortfall in those things that will need to be made up for by imports.

    There has only ever been one successful strategy for closing a trade deficit: suppression of consumption. (Or, to put it another way, the encouragement of saving.)
    Without wishing to go down a rabbit hole, it’s a question of value (without taking into account CAP and non-use through set aside.)

    More pertinently, one should remember that the most important type of banana, globally, was bred in Derbyshire. Cavendish.
    My point is a simple one, though: if we switch from an FTA with the EU to one with the US, then that would make no difference to our trade deficit.

    Because trade deficits (and surpluses) are not a consequence of trade policy and tariffs, but of household savings rates.

    We - as people - demand things. The FTAs we have determine where the cheapest place to buy those things is. So, in the event of an FTA with the US (and not one with the EU), we would import more cars from the US, and fewer from Europe.
    Of course, as Michael Pettis has persuasively argued, tariffs work like any other value added tax, and therefore increase the cost of consumption relative to saving. They therefore can have the impact of a modest lowering of trade deficits.
    What would you do to encourage more saving without spinning us into a negative Keynesian cycle?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228
    Gabs3 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    matt said:

    Without wishing to go down a rabbit hole, it’s a question of value (without taking into account CAP and non-use through set aside.)

    More pertinently, one should remember that the most important type of banana, globally, was bred in Derbyshire. Cavendish.

    My point is a simple one, though: if we switch from an FTA with the EU to one with the US, then that would make no difference to our trade deficit.

    Because trade deficits (and surpluses) are not a consequence of trade policy and tariffs, but of household savings rates.

    We - as people - demand things. The FTAs we have determine where the cheapest place to buy those things is. So, in the event of an FTA with the US (and not one with the EU), we would import more cars from the US, and fewer from Europe.
    I think you make a very good point that lay people and politicians don't appreciate. But I think you overstate it. The household savings rate, the government savings rate and the current account all need to come to equilibrium. They all push against each other. But it's not one of the three being a purely independent variable and another one being dependent on it.
    Yes, I am simplifying.

    But at the same time, I don't think it's any coincidence that countries that have policies that seek to actively encourage saving (Germany and Switzerland being the obvious examples) have surpluses, while those who's policies seek to discourage it (the UK for example) have deficits.

    Indeed, the last time the UK ran a trade surplus was in the aftermath of the government implementing a number of schemes to try and encourage saving (ISAs, etc.) Since then, the government has repeatedly reduced the incentives to save, pushing household consumption up and the trade deficit wider.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    edited January 2020
    matt said:

    Gabs3 said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    I am sure people in Iran will find it utterly convincing shortly after he promised to destroy their most loved cultural heritage sites. And to endlessly occupy the country next door even when they no longer want the US present.
    Ignoring that though, what does, in the British context, most loved cultural heritage sites mean. Should one begin with Baedecker, with the Times or Guardian cultural pages? Is culture a building or a person?
    Isn't it present in both? Historic buildings are what our ancestors felt worth committing vast quantities of their lives to. They are the physical expression of cultural values.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    edited January 2020
    matt said:


    Mark Kermode gave it 4* though....

    Mark Commode liked "The Last Jedi"....
  • TGOHF666 said:

    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foster returns as First Minister:

    Stormont deal: Arlene Foster and Michelle O'Neill new top NI ministers
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51077397

    But these speeches are ominous. They all want different things and seem determined to all try to get them. This could go sour again very quickly.

    I'm glad Stormont is back but both of the main partners are potentially finished and the only reason they are there is to avoid an election. NI is ill-served by both of them.
    I would much rather be washed up on a desert island with Michelle O'Neill than with Arlene Foster. :blush:
    What would you do to her?
    Something with fava beans ?
    I am a vegetarian. I don't believe in predatory sex.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    matt said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
    Not nice?
    Needed somebody to tell Marty "cut an hour and a half out".
    The impression is that he does’t understand that less can mean more. It was beyond dull.
    The last 45 minutes added nothing. Literally, nothing.
    Mark Kermode gave it 4* though....


    Mark Kermode and I share a deep and abiding love for Local Hero and the music of the Comsat Angels. But on Bait and The Irishman, he is just plain wrong.
  • On topic:

    image

    No can do, I'm in Northern Ireland.
    "In the 2016 UK leadership election, 765 Labour party members in Northern Ireland took part in the vote, with a majority voting for Corbyn (Corbyn 541; Smith 224)."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_in_Northern_Ireland
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,602
    "The Prince of Wales, the Duke of Cambridge and the Duke of Sussex will sit down at Sandringham on Monday."

    https://news.sky.com/story/queen-calls-crisis-meeting-over-harry-and-meghan-bombshell-11906636

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew7Zkkucos8
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Imagine how furious the woke left will be if Trumps droning of the general brings down the Iranian regime.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    TGOHF666 said:

    Imagine how furious the woke left will be if Trumps droning of the general brings down the Iranian regime.

    They'll just find something else to whine about.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "The Prince of Wales, the Duke of Cambridge and the Duke of Sussex will sit down at Sandringham on Monday."

    https://news.sky.com/story/queen-calls-crisis-meeting-over-harry-and-meghan-bombshell-11906636

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew7Zkkucos8

    This is a great song! James of course changed the lyrics from the now-lost original, which was a tribute to a French footballing legend:

    Whoa, Zidane
    Whoa, Zidane
    Zidane next to me
    Zidane
    Zidane
    Zidane
    Zidane
    Zidane
    Zidane next to me
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    TGOHF666 said:

    Imagine how furious the woke left will be if Trumps droning of the general brings down the Iranian regime.

    On the other hand, seeing the US retreat from Baghdad may cheer them up.

    I don't know if you include me in "the woke left" but I have always opposed the systematic misogyny and homophobia of the Iranian regime.
  • On topic:

    image

    No can do, I'm in Northern Ireland.
    "In the 2016 UK leadership election, 765 Labour party members in Northern Ireland took part in the vote, with a majority voting for Corbyn (Corbyn 541; Smith 224)."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_in_Northern_Ireland
    Learn something new everyday, the don't do well over here.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,837

    matt said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
    Not nice?
    Needed somebody to tell Marty "cut an hour and a half out".
    The impression is that he does’t understand that less can mean more. It was beyond dull.
    The last 45 minutes added nothing. Literally, nothing.
    Mark Kermode gave it 4* though....
    Mark Kermode and I share a deep and abiding love for Local Hero and the music of the Comsat Angels. But on Bait and The Irishman, he is just plain wrong.

    I would place Local Hero in my top 5 films. Maybe even my top 1.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    Foxy said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Imagine how furious the woke left will be if Trumps droning of the general brings down the Iranian regime.

    On the other hand, seeing the US retreat from Baghdad may cheer them up.

    I don't know if you include me in "the woke left" but I have always opposed the systematic misogyny and homophobia of the Iranian regime.
    The Iranian regime is deeply conservative. Any principled progressive should oppose it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Cookie said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
    Not nice?
    Needed somebody to tell Marty "cut an hour and a half out".
    The impression is that he does’t understand that less can mean more. It was beyond dull.
    The last 45 minutes added nothing. Literally, nothing.
    Mark Kermode gave it 4* though....
    Mark Kermode and I share a deep and abiding love for Local Hero and the music of the Comsat Angels. But on Bait and The Irishman, he is just plain wrong.
    I would place Local Hero in my top 5 films. Maybe even my top 1.

    Legend!

    When I first watched that film in 1983, I had no idea that my own career would see me being that oil and gas negotiator, Mac MacIntyre, sent off to exotic places to negotiate with impossible people.... Nor indeed in that capacity, that I would be taken by a bunch of geologists to the very village where it was filmed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Gabs3 said:

    Foxy said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Imagine how furious the woke left will be if Trumps droning of the general brings down the Iranian regime.

    On the other hand, seeing the US retreat from Baghdad may cheer them up.

    I don't know if you include me in "the woke left" but I have always opposed the systematic misogyny and homophobia of the Iranian regime.
    The Iranian regime is deeply conservative. Any principled progressive should oppose it.
    QUDS Force gain Bootle?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    edited January 2020
    Cookie said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
    Not nice?
    Needed somebody to tell Marty "cut an hour and a half out".
    The impression is that he does’t understand that less can mean more. It was beyond dull.
    The last 45 minutes added nothing. Literally, nothing.
    Mark Kermode gave it 4* though....
    Mark Kermode and I share a deep and abiding love for Local Hero and the music of the Comsat Angels. But on Bait and The Irishman, he is just plain wrong...
    ...as he is for "The Exorcist", and "Joker". But he's interesting even when he's wrong, although he can be long-winded.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770
    edited January 2020
    Well this wasn't predictable surely? But as far as I can see Labour are now splitting over whether it is better to get back the voters of towns (especially northern and leave) or give up and go all out for city, urban, younger, graduate voters.

    Can the party find common ground?

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    If the Government are serious about climate change they need to start giving grants like a mo' fo' to domestic homeowners.

    I need a new boiler for my four bed. I've investigated "green" alternatives.

    The best is a ground source heat pump at (wait for it) about £23k with my whole garden being dug up and weeks of work.

    The boiler is about £2k with another £1k for installation and can be done in a day or two.

    Am I still going to go for the GSHP? Am I fuck.

    Judge me. But you'd do exactly the same and unless the government hugely subsidise this it isn't going to happen.

    I worked in this area for nearly 2 years. Designing and overseeing the installation of ground source and air source heat pump systems.

    I would never install a ground source. I would only ever consider an air source and even then I would only consider a high quality European model, not the cheap rubbish British companies try and peddle.

    Ground source works best in district heating schemes where they are professionally maintained and you have economies of scale.
    Really? Interesting. Thanks.

    Can you DM me any information on those?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    EPG said:

    If the Government are serious about climate change they need to start giving grants like a mo' fo' to domestic homeowners.

    I need a new boiler for my four bed. I've investigated "green" alternatives.

    The best is a ground source heat pump at (wait for it) about £23k with my whole garden being dug up and weeks of work.

    The boiler is about £2k with another £1k for installation and can be done in a day or two.

    Am I still going to go for the GSHP? Am I fuck.

    Judge me. But you'd do exactly the same and unless the government hugely subsidise this it isn't going to happen.

    Bailout for boomers. Meanwhile, young people have to pay for this in their new build.
    Um. Strictly speaking I'm a millennial.

    Either way that's besides the point. This is about converting the whole national housing stock rapidly to zero carbon.

    That ain't gonna happen any time soon at these prices.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    I just watched (and made my wife watch) The Great Escape.

    On DVD of course.
  • viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
    Not nice?
    Needed somebody to tell Marty "cut an hour and a half out".
    The impression is that he does’t understand that less can mean more. It was beyond dull.
    The last 45 minutes added nothing. Literally, nothing.
    Mark Kermode gave it 4* though....
    Mark Kermode and I share a deep and abiding love for Local Hero and the music of the Comsat Angels. But on Bait and The Irishman, he is just plain wrong...
    ...as he is for "The Exorcist", and "Joker". But he's interesting even when he's wrong, although he can be long-winded.

    The Joker was garbage.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    rcs1000 said:

    FPT:

    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Your trade deficit, or surplus, is the consequence of your household savings rate. It is nothing to do with your free trade agreements.

    We have a trade deficit, as a country, because we consume more than we make.

    Swapping an FTA with the EU for one with the US will not change or trade deficit, all it will mean is that we drink more American wine, and less French. To actually lower the trade deficit would require Brits to actually drink less.

    Or drink wine from Sussex, Cornwall and, hard to believe, Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.....
    Sure. But the land in Sussex, Cornwall and Derbyshire is not currently unused. It's being used for something else. If its owners aren't using it to grow grapes, that might be because something else makes more economic sense.

    And if we swap beef or wheat or whatever for grapes, we'll now have a shortfall in those things that will need to be made up for by imports.

    There has only ever been one successful strategy for closing a trade deficit: suppression of consumption. (Or, to put it another way, the encouragement of saving.)
    There's another: many more other countries wanting to buy your stuff, and a large expansion of your exports.
  • Not according to Corbyn supporters on Twitter. They hate him already and think he’s an evil neoliberal. Kerry Ann Mendoza especially has this odd hatred of him.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    I really question this, it is treating the consequences, not the cause. If unemployment, or crime or a struggle to get a social house are causing the mental health issues, then solving these problems should be the priority.
  • Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    I just watched (and made my wife watch) The Great Escape.

    On DVD of course.
    Too long for me.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770

    I really question this, it is treating the consequences, not the cause. If unemployment, or crime or a struggle to get a social house are causing the mental health issues, then solving these problems should be the priority.
    Possibly. I am adamant it needs to be both.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770
    Is Starmer now a lay? 1.37.

    Just a couple of months ago or so, you would have said it was impossible that Labour members would elect Kier.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited January 2020
    While a focus on internal factional infighting is problematic, I think there is something in the idea that a false kind of unity, where serious problems are in essence ignored for the presumed sake of safeguarding the party reputation, only leads to great trouble than confronting irreconcilable views within a party. Some fights needs to be had, and won.

    Not according to Corbyn supporters on Twitter. They hate him already and think he’s an evil neoliberal. Kerry Ann Mendoza especially has this odd hatred of him.
    Bizarre really. From what I can tell the only thing behind it is he looks like a regular old politician and therefore is presumed must be a Blairite or Brownite, and he's clever with his words and positioning so is not hated by the centre or right, and lack of being hated by the true enemy (never mind the Tories, they are not the main foe) must be suspicious..
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,770
    kle4 said:

    While a focus on internal factional infighting is problematic, I think there is something in the idea that a false kind of unity, where serious problems are in essence ignored for the presumed sake of safeguarding the party reputation, only leads to great trouble than confronting irreconcilable views within a party. Some fights needs to be had, and won.

    Not according to Corbyn supporters on Twitter. They hate him already and think he’s an evil neoliberal. Kerry Ann Mendoza especially has this odd hatred of him.
    Bizarre really. From what I can tell the only thing behind it is he looks like a regular old politician, and he's clever with his words and positioning so is not hated by the centre or right.
    Perhaps Kerry Ann Mendoza hates him because he could do something really betraying like winning an GE and then spend five years dealing with messy reality.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited January 2020

    viewcode said:

    Cookie said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    matt said:

    Are there any good films on tonight?

    Which channel please?

    The Irishman remains available on Netflix if you’re lost the will to live.
    Not nice?
    Needed somebody to tell Marty "cut an hour and a half out".
    The impression is that he does’t understand that less can mean more. It was beyond dull.
    The last 45 minutes added nothing. Literally, nothing.
    Mark Kermode gave it 4* though....
    Mark Kermode and I share a deep and abiding love for Local Hero and the music of the Comsat Angels. But on Bait and The Irishman, he is just plain wrong...
    ...as he is for "The Exorcist", and "Joker". But he's interesting even when he's wrong, although he can be long-winded.

    The Joker was garbage.
    I saw a positive review of it about how it was like being beaten around the head with a baseball bat, or some such description, which was enough to tell me not to bother with it.

    1917 was pretty good.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    kle4 said:

    While a focus on internal factional infighting is problematic, I think there is something in the idea that a false kind of unity, where serious problems are in essence ignored for the presumed sake of safeguarding the party reputation, only leads to great trouble than confronting irreconcilable views within a party. Some fights needs to be had, and won.

    Not according to Corbyn supporters on Twitter. They hate him already and think he’s an evil neoliberal. Kerry Ann Mendoza especially has this odd hatred of him.
    Bizarre really. From what I can tell the only thing behind it is he looks like a regular old politician, and he's clever with his words and positioning so is not hated by the centre or right.
    Perhaps Kerry Ann Mendoza hates him because he could do something really betraying like winning an GE and then spend five years dealing with messy reality.
    God forbid. The people will realise what is good for them in their own time without Labour descending to the level of the stupid proles. Or something.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Any VI polls yet? :D
This discussion has been closed.