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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Jesse Phillips moves to second place in the Corbyn successor M

SystemSystem Posts: 12,250
edited January 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Jesse Phillips moves to second place in the Corbyn successor MP nomination race

In the next few days we’re going to spend a lot of time checking the spreadsheet showing the MP support for different contenders in the Labour leader nomination race. The first stage, on getting support of fellow party MPs, closes next Monday and to go forward to the next round contenders have to have 22 fellow MP backers.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,837
    It would be amusing.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,837
    The US seems to be trying to get together a coalition of the unwilling....
    http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200108000543
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,735
    The Campaign Group of Labour MPs will meet and endorse Long-Bailey shortly. That will deliver her 30 to 40 extra nominations.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,837
    Despite PB conventional wisdom, she might actually win.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,090
    edited January 2020
    O/T — BBC News: 63 Canadians on board Ukranian plane.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Derrick Lewis is certainly a long way behind I'd have thought... :)

    He's apparently an american heavyweight pro mixed martial arts guy?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,311
    Derrick Lewis, who he?
    (I'm aware many may be saying Clive Lewis, who he?)
  • eekeek Posts: 28,767
    SouthamObserver said:

    The Campaign Group of Labour MPs will meet and endorse Long-Bailey shortly. That will deliver her 30 to 40 extra nominations.

    RLB was always going to be nominated - the question was who else would be and it seems Jess may be getting far more support than expected (when she was expected to just about hit the numbers required).
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,593
    (FPT) With all due respect @Big_G_NorthWales you do not appreciate the difference between coming to terms with leaving the EU and agreeing with the choices the Government is making in how we’re leaving and the form it will take.

    One can accept we are leaving the EU and still heavily criticize the government for the way its going about it. It’s also fair to argue that the alleged destination is worse than staying in the EU.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Derrick Lewis, who he?
    (I'm aware many may be saying Clive Lewis, who he?)

    Thanks. Fixed
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    To be honest Jess Philips has not impacted on my consciousness as much as she might have done. I did a google search and came up with this: https://theclarionmag.org/2018/02/09/when-will-jess-phillips-clp-put-us-out-of-our-misery/

    It's a review of her book Everywoman and its not particularly complementary. It concludes:
    "The only truth that is exposed in Jess Phillips’ book is that she is an egotistical political lightweight with little understanding of the movement she is part of. I live in hope that the Labour members in Birmingham Yardley will realise the same and put us all out of our misery."

    On the plus side it makes it clear that she was not a sufficiently adoring Corbynista. On the minus, ouch.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,519
    edited January 2020
    Phillips though still has not ruled out trying to reverse Brexit, unlike Starmer who has now focused on a close relationship with the EU post Brexit as has Nandy and Long Bailey
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,735
    eek said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    The Campaign Group of Labour MPs will meet and endorse Long-Bailey shortly. That will deliver her 30 to 40 extra nominations.

    RLB was always going to be nominated - the question was who else would be and it seems Jess may be getting far more support than expected (when she was expected to just about hit the numbers required).

    Phillips' challenge was always going to be the CLPs and the Unions/affiliates. The way the contest has been set up, though, gives her more of a chance to get the CLP nominaitons she'll need. However, Nandy's strong showing last night might create some momentumn fro her outiside the PLP. At this stage it looks like the early departures will be Thornberry and Lewis (unless one of the candidates, ie Starmer) believes it would help if he went forward.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,735
    Nigelb said:

    Despite PB conventional wisdom, she might actually win.

    I would be hugely, massively, surprised. But not disappointed.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,232
    edited January 2020
    She'd make Swinson look a heavyweight.....

    EDIT: but then so would RLB.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/LostWeapons/status/1214803481782915072?s=20
  • eekeek Posts: 28,767
    HYUFD said:

    Phillips though still has not ruled out trying to reverse Brexit, unlike Starmer who has now focused on a close relationship with the EU post Brexit and Nandy and Long Bailey

    Could that be to get some CLP nominations? While you see madness I see method in the same madness.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    I thought NPxMP had said he thought Jess was a 'no' given her trouble-maker image vs magic grandpa?
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    The spreadsheet for Deputy is stark
    Rayner 27
    Murray 3
    Burgon 1 (McDonnell)
    Khan 1
    Butler 0
    Mahmood 0

    It makes you wonder what the Leader nominations would look like if McDonnell's protege had not been given the nod over Rayner.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I thought NPxMP had said he thought Jess was a 'no' given her trouble-maker image vs magic grandpa?

    If she becomes leader, he’ll be lining up behind her like a good little loyalist.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,574
    Will Philips get the requisite number of clps behind her ?
    I've don't know any Labour members who will vote for her thus far. Admittedly that's a small sample but the smoke signals haven't been good for her.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,258
    Pulpstar said:

    Will Philips get the requisite number of clps behind her ?
    I've don't know any Labour members who will vote for her thus far. Admittedly that's a small sample but the smoke signals haven't been good for her.

    Presumably all of the CLPs will vote for their own MP if they get through the MPs ballot...won't they?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,369
    It's surprising that the Labour Party aren't publishing the spreadsheets themselves rather than outsourcing them to Guido.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,342
    edited January 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Will Philips get the requisite number of clps behind her ?
    I've don't know any Labour members who will vote for her thus far. Admittedly that's a small sample but the smoke signals haven't been good for her.

    Liz Kendall got 18 CLP nominations in 2015. Got to be a fair chance they might go for Phillips, though she'd still need another 17 more.
    EDIT: Actually, think she'd need 15 more, if is 5% of CLPs.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,937
    matt said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I thought NPxMP had said he thought Jess was a 'no' given her trouble-maker image vs magic grandpa?

    If she becomes leader, he’ll be lining up behind her like a good little loyalist.
    Probably, rather like Big G NorthWales.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    matt said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I thought NPxMP had said he thought Jess was a 'no' given her trouble-maker image vs magic grandpa?

    If she becomes leader, he’ll be lining up behind her like a good little loyalist.
    No he won't. He will be saying how he has always supported her even when it was unfashionable to do so and had to bite his lip through the Blair Brown Corbyn wilderness years.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,837
    HYUFD said:

    Phillips though still has not ruled out trying to reverse Brexit, unlike Starmer who has now focused on a close relationship with the EU post Brexit as has Nandy and Long Bailey

    In practical terms, there is very little significant difference between those positions.
    Other than signalling.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Seeing that massive photograph of Phillips face at the top of the thread was a timely reminder of how much I would dislike her to be LotO. I think she would be a kind of mirror image of Boris, her supporters would be charmed by her brand, while her detractors would be annoyed by it's insincerity.

    I would like Nandy to win. She just seems like a nice person, thoughtful and considerate. I always think she came across a little timid, but that must just be superficial, as she wouldn't have made it this far in politics if there wasn't some steel there too. After shouty, miserable Corbyn we could do without perma angry shouty Jess, so hoping for a cheeky Nando's to bring a bit of calm to proceedings
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    TOPPING said:

    matt said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I thought NPxMP had said he thought Jess was a 'no' given her trouble-maker image vs magic grandpa?

    If she becomes leader, he’ll be lining up behind her like a good little loyalist.
    No he won't. He will be saying how he has always supported her even when it was unfashionable to do so and had to bite his lip through the Blair Brown Corbyn wilderness years.
    Cutting. Close to the bone.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,409
    edited January 2020
    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/LostWeapons/status/1214803481782915072?s=20

    It's an awful co-incidence that a three year old plane crashes at the same time as a bunch of rockets were flying around the region. Just saying.

    Apparently the passengers included a lot of Canadians and Ukrainians, and the crew were Ukrainian. Two more countries getting dragged into the mess against their will.

    After the missiles started flying last night, lots of planes that would usually fly over Iran or Iraq decided to take alternative routes. Many ended up diverting elsewhere for fuel, and lots of flights in the area are cancelled today.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,837
    isam said:

    Seeing that massive photograph of Phillips face at the top of the thread was a timely reminder of how much I would dislike her to be LotO. I think she would be a kind of mirror image of Boris, her supporters would be charmed by her brand, while her detractors would be annoyed by it's insincerity.

    I would like Nandy to win. She just seems like a nice person, thoughtful and considerate. I always think she came across a little timid, but that must just be superficial, as she wouldn't have made it this far in politics if there wasn't some steel there too. After shouty, miserable Corbyn we could do without perma angry shouty Jess, so hoping for a cheeky Nando's to bring a bit of calm to proceedings

    It’s always difficult to tell how a leader might turn out until they actually become leader. It does change people.
    Though perhaps less so in Phillips’ case ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,421
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Seeing that massive photograph of Phillips face at the top of the thread was a timely reminder of how much I would dislike her to be LotO. I think she would be a kind of mirror image of Boris, her supporters would be charmed by her brand, while her detractors would be annoyed by it's insincerity.

    I would like Nandy to win. She just seems like a nice person, thoughtful and considerate. I always think she came across a little timid, but that must just be superficial, as she wouldn't have made it this far in politics if there wasn't some steel there too. After shouty, miserable Corbyn we could do without perma angry shouty Jess, so hoping for a cheeky Nando's to bring a bit of calm to proceedings

    It’s always difficult to tell how a leader might turn out until they actually become leader. It does change people.
    Though perhaps less so in Phillips’ case ?
    Nandy impressed a lot of MPs last night by all accounts.

    Shadow CoE under Starmer?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,734
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Seeing that massive photograph of Phillips face at the top of the thread was a timely reminder of how much I would dislike her to be LotO. I think she would be a kind of mirror image of Boris, her supporters would be charmed by her brand, while her detractors would be annoyed by it's insincerity.

    I would like Nandy to win. She just seems like a nice person, thoughtful and considerate. I always think she came across a little timid, but that must just be superficial, as she wouldn't have made it this far in politics if there wasn't some steel there too. After shouty, miserable Corbyn we could do without perma angry shouty Jess, so hoping for a cheeky Nando's to bring a bit of calm to proceedings

    It’s always difficult to tell how a leader might turn out until they actually become leader. It does change people.
    I think that's true. However poorly or well they poll, or how well theyve done in an existing role, it is a rare case where they have a chance to make a second impression on the public. Some people are great at ministerial level but awful as leaders and vice versa. And though its ended terribly for the party the image and perception of Corbyn as an influential political figure has certainly changed due to being leader. He and mcdonnel want to be grandees, and that was not on the cards 5 years ago.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,421
    https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/1214816698550902784
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Spelling mistake on Phillips' name in the headline
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,743
    matt said:

    TOPPING said:

    matt said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I thought NPxMP had said he thought Jess was a 'no' given her trouble-maker image vs magic grandpa?

    If she becomes leader, he’ll be lining up behind her like a good little loyalist.
    No he won't. He will be saying how he has always supported her even when it was unfashionable to do so and had to bite his lip through the Blair Brown Corbyn wilderness years.
    Cutting. Close to the bone.
    NP can look after itself but surely he was talking about Jess's supporters having been noisily anti-Corbyn rather than Jess herself.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,232
    edited January 2020
    rottenborough said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Seeing that massive photograph of Phillips face at the top of the thread was a timely reminder of how much I would dislike her to be LotO. I think she would be a kind of mirror image of Boris, her supporters would be charmed by her brand, while her detractors would be annoyed by it's insincerity.

    I would like Nandy to win. She just seems like a nice person, thoughtful and considerate. I always think she came across a little timid, but that must just be superficial, as she wouldn't have made it this far in politics if there wasn't some steel there too. After shouty, miserable Corbyn we could do without perma angry shouty Jess, so hoping for a cheeky Nando's to bring a bit of calm to proceedings

    It’s always difficult to tell how a leader might turn out until they actually become leader. It does change people.
    Though perhaps less so in Phillips’ case ?
    Nandy impressed a lot of MPs last night by all accounts.

    Shadow CoE under Starmer?
    Nandy is the candidate who I think would most grow whilst in the post. With Starmer or Phillips, Boris could just continue with yah-boo politics. I think trying that with Nandy would cause him some damage. She is sensible, measured, decent. She will have a view that deserves to be listened to. And if he tries to drown her out, that will play badly.

    She is the candidate that is most likely to have influence in this Parliament. If she causes my lot to pause and moderate their positions, that will be a win all round. For example, if she were to offer Labour's assistance to set up a Royal Commission on the NHS - and the parameters for that - it would be wielding more influence than Corbyn has ever achieved. And she can be the authentic voice of the Red Wall. "If you think that is going to be enough to buy off the North, think again Prime Minister...."
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2020
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Seeing that massive photograph of Phillips face at the top of the thread was a timely reminder of how much I would dislike her to be LotO. I think she would be a kind of mirror image of Boris, her supporters would be charmed by her brand, while her detractors would be annoyed by it's insincerity.

    I would like Nandy to win. She just seems like a nice person, thoughtful and considerate. I always think she came across a little timid, but that must just be superficial, as she wouldn't have made it this far in politics if there wasn't some steel there too. After shouty, miserable Corbyn we could do without perma angry shouty Jess, so hoping for a cheeky Nando's to bring a bit of calm to proceedings

    It’s always difficult to tell how a leader might turn out until they actually become leader. It does change people.
    Though perhaps less so in Phillips’ case ?
    Well yes, but Phillips has been crafting a brand for herself for a long while, so I dont imagine she will change that should she become Labour leader. The temptation to cast herself as a Dickensian waif and stray to Boris' Bullingdon Club oaf will be impossible for her to resist, and excruciating to watch
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Jess is just a Bootleg Boris.

    Everything is viewed through a party political prism. The people who dislike Boris for being an insincere politician with a taste for self-publicity are the very ones now applauding Jess as "a breath of fresh air", who can reconnect with the voters.

    There is ample evidence that Jess speaks before she thinks.
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    https://twitter.com/AlHadath/status/1214758196511985664?s=20
    "News of the Ukrainian plane crashing as a result of accidentally injuring an Iranian missile" (auto translation of tweet)

    Al Hadath is an extension of the Al Arabiya News Channel, which is based in Dubai and Saudi owned, so may not be the best source for news on Iran.
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 437
    A genuine question to the people who have a positive view of Phillips: is this based on thinking she comes across well in the media/parliament, on or on more than that?

    The reason I ask is that, as someone who has a vote in this contest, I am mystified by the support for someone who appears to despise anyone who disagrees with her on almost any issue. Is this just a case of "It works for Trump, so maybe it'll work for her"? My guess is that this sort of politics will be out of fashion by 2024, and would probably never work on the centre-left anyway.

    My preference order is something like (1) Nandy (2) Starmer (3) Lewis (4) Long-Bailey (5) Thornberry (6) Phillips. People often put my top and bottom choices in the same bracket, but Phillips is the person on the list who would be least capable of something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl3MHMaO2Zk&t=1m16s
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,837
    YBarddCwsc said:


    Jess is just a Bootleg Boris.

    Everything is viewed through a party political prism. The people who dislike Boris for being an insincere politician with a taste for self-publicity are the very ones now applauding Jess as "a breath of fresh air", who can reconnect with the voters.

    There is ample evidence that Jess speaks before she thinks.

    It’s certainly an unusual trait in a politician to genuinely speak their mind - and as you say, in her case often before she’s made it up...

    I am no fan of hers, just opining that she is not a complete no hoper.
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 437
    kicorse said:

    People often put my top and bottom choices in the same bracket, but Phillips is the person on the list who would be least capable of something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl3MHMaO2Zk&t=1m16s

    For some reason the time-tag on that video didn't work. The bit I was discussing starts at 1:16.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,022
    Gallowgate said:

    (FPT) With all due respect @Big_G_NorthWales you do not appreciate the difference between coming to terms with leaving the EU and agreeing with the choices the Government is making in how we’re leaving and the form it will take.

    One can accept we are leaving the EU and still heavily criticize the government for the way its going about it. It’s also fair to argue that the alleged destination is worse than staying in the EU.

    I agree with you.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,837
    MarqueeMark said:

    rottenborough said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Seeing that massive photograph of Phillips face at the top of the thread was a timely reminder of how much I would dislike her to be LotO. I think she would be a kind of mirror image of Boris, her supporters would be charmed by her brand, while her detractors would be annoyed by it's insincerity.

    I would like Nandy to win. She just seems like a nice person, thoughtful and considerate. I always think she came across a little timid, but that must just be superficial, as she wouldn't have made it this far in politics if there wasn't some steel there too. After shouty, miserable Corbyn we could do without perma angry shouty Jess, so hoping for a cheeky Nando's to bring a bit of calm to proceedings

    It’s always difficult to tell how a leader might turn out until they actually become leader. It does change people.
    Though perhaps less so in Phillips’ case ?
    Nandy impressed a lot of MPs last night by all accounts.

    Shadow CoE under Starmer?
    Nandy is the candidate who I think would most grow whilst in the post. With Starmer or Phillips, Boris could just continue with yah-boo politics. I think trying that with Nandy would cause him some damage. She is sensible, measured, decent. She will have a view that deserves to be listened to. And if he tries to drown her out, that will play badly.

    She is the candidate that is most likely to have influence in this Parliament. If she causes my lot to pause and moderate their positions, that will be a win all round. For example, if she were to offer Labour's assistance to set up a Royal Commission on the NHS - and the parameters for that - it would be wielding more influence than Corbyn has ever achieved. And she can be the authentic voice of the Red Wall. "If you think that is going to be enough to buy off the North, think again Prime Minister...."
    Labour could do a lot worse - but her fans here seem mainly to be not Labour....
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    My personal opinion is that, for the Tories, Lisa Nandy is by far the most dangerous, followed some way back by Keir Starmer.

    For Labour, I think Jess Phillips is by far the most dangerous, as she is most likely to detonate the combustible mixture of methane and oxygen that is the Labour Party.

    Who is most dangerous for the LibDems? At first, I thought RLB given what happened in 2019. But I wonder.

    RLB probably confirms that Labour will never return to the centre, and may give the LibDems more space, starting as they will in the next election in a better position in many seats.
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    YBarddCwsc said:


    Jess is just a Bootleg Boris.

    Everything is viewed through a party political prism. The people who dislike Boris for being an insincere politician with a taste for self-publicity are the very ones now applauding Jess as "a breath of fresh air", who can reconnect with the voters.

    There is ample evidence that Jess speaks before she thinks.

    At least she's not scared to argue with Muslims about homophobia, even as MP for a constituency that's around one third Muslim.
    https://youtu.be/Zy9FAko75hE?t=15
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,022
    logical_song said:

    matt said:

    Scrapheap_as_was said:

    I thought NPxMP had said he thought Jess was a 'no' given her trouble-maker image vs magic grandpa?

    If she becomes leader, he’ll be lining up behind her like a good little loyalist.
    Probably, rather like Big G NorthWales.
    I will not be lining up behind any labour leader to be fair
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    kicorse said:



    My preference order is something like (1) Nandy (2) Starmer (3) Lewis (4) Long-Bailey (5) Thornberry (6) Phillips.

    Very close to mine, except I'd have (3) RLB and (4) Lewis.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,143
    edited January 2020
    kicorse said:

    People often put my top and bottom choices in the same bracket, but Phillips is the person on the list who would be least capable of something like this:

    Thank you. I listened to that. I thought Nandy was good there. Is this the reaction you are expecting?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,232
    Nigelb said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    rottenborough said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Seeing that massive photograph of Phillips face at the top of the thread was a timely reminder of how much I would dislike her to be LotO. I think she would be a kind of mirror image of Boris, her supporters would be charmed by her brand, while her detractors would be annoyed by it's insincerity.

    I would like Nandy to win. She just seems like a nice person, thoughtful and considerate. I always think she came across a little timid, but that must just be superficial, as she wouldn't have made it this far in politics if there wasn't some steel there too. After shouty, miserable Corbyn we could do without perma angry shouty Jess, so hoping for a cheeky Nando's to bring a bit of calm to proceedings

    It’s always difficult to tell how a leader might turn out until they actually become leader. It does change people.
    Though perhaps less so in Phillips’ case ?
    Nandy impressed a lot of MPs last night by all accounts.

    Shadow CoE under Starmer?
    Nandy is the candidate who I think would most grow whilst in the post. With Starmer or Phillips, Boris could just continue with yah-boo politics. I think trying that with Nandy would cause him some damage. She is sensible, measured, decent. She will have a view that deserves to be listened to. And if he tries to drown her out, that will play badly.

    She is the candidate that is most likely to have influence in this Parliament. If she causes my lot to pause and moderate their positions, that will be a win all round. For example, if she were to offer Labour's assistance to set up a Royal Commission on the NHS - and the parameters for that - it would be wielding more influence than Corbyn has ever achieved. And she can be the authentic voice of the Red Wall. "If you think that is going to be enough to buy off the North, think again Prime Minister...."
    Labour could do a lot worse - but her fans here seem mainly to be not Labour....
    Perhaps because we have not been bent out of shape by Corbyn, one way or the other.....

    Hey, as a Tory I'll be delighted if it is Long-Bailey. You know, the one who just marked Corbyn's homework as 10/10. But for better governance for all, Nandy looks to be streets ahead.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,839
    Sandpit said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    https://twitter.com/LostWeapons/status/1214803481782915072?s=20

    It's an awful co-incidence that a three year old plane crashes at the same time as a bunch of rockets were flying around the region. Just saying.

    The IRGC, while being the leaders in the clubhouse when it comes to dying in large numbers with fervour, aren't exactly the most technically sophisticated cadre. One of them was probably stood next to a Grumble launcher while hitting it with a flip-flop and smoking a Marlboro.

  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    TrèsDifficile said:

    YBarddCwsc said:


    Jess is just a Bootleg Boris.

    Everything is viewed through a party political prism. The people who dislike Boris for being an insincere politician with a taste for self-publicity are the very ones now applauding Jess as "a breath of fresh air", who can reconnect with the voters.

    There is ample evidence that Jess speaks before she thinks.

    At least she's not scared to argue with Muslims about homophobia, even as MP for a constituency that's around one third Muslim.
    https://youtu.be/Zy9FAko75hE?t=15
    Source please.

    I don't know Birmingham, but I'd be very, very surprised if Yardley is 1/3 Muslim.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kicorse said:

    kicorse said:

    People often put my top and bottom choices in the same bracket, but Phillips is the person on the list who would be least capable of something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl3MHMaO2Zk&t=1m16s

    For some reason the time-tag on that video didn't work. The bit I was discussing starts at 1:16.
    Very good. She has a happy and reassuring disposition.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,090
    YBarddCwsc said:

    TrèsDifficile said:

    YBarddCwsc said:


    Jess is just a Bootleg Boris.

    Everything is viewed through a party political prism. The people who dislike Boris for being an insincere politician with a taste for self-publicity are the very ones now applauding Jess as "a breath of fresh air", who can reconnect with the voters.

    There is ample evidence that Jess speaks before she thinks.

    At least she's not scared to argue with Muslims about homophobia, even as MP for a constituency that's around one third Muslim.
    https://youtu.be/Zy9FAko75hE?t=15
    Source please.

    I don't know Birmingham, but I'd be very, very surprised if Yardley is 1/3 Muslim.
    It was 21% Muslim in 2011 so could be between 25% and 30% now at a guess.

    https://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/birminghamyardley/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,143
    The steamer in the market is Nandy. I heard she did great at the MP hustings. 14 a couple of days ago. 7 now.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,767
    Brexit is going to stop a lot of Brexiters watching the football

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/use-of-satellite-decoder-cards-intended-for-eu-audiences-after-brexit

    A wonder how many lawyers sky have lined up to hit the pubs.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,143
    Owen planning to elevate. Nice little piece -

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/changing-my-relationship-with-twitter-ff4d3c0106b5
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:


    Labour could do a lot worse - but her fans here seem mainly to be not Labour....

    A perceptive and depressing point.

    This probably means she will come last when the results are announced on 4th April.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,409
    TrèsDifficile said:

    https://twitter.com/AlHadath/status/1214758196511985664?s=20
    "News of the Ukrainian plane crashing as a result of accidentally injuring an Iranian missile" (auto translation of tweet)

    Al Hadath is an extension of the Al Arabiya News Channel, which is based in Dubai and Saudi owned, so may not be the best source for news on Iran.

    There's a lot of very convincing-looking fake news channels in the region, usually the work of one government or another. They're all currently making concerted efforts to get western journalists retweeting their propaganda.

    Trusted news organisations are Arabian Business, The National (in UAE), Khaleej Times, among others.

    I would read anything on Al Arabiya or Al Jazeera as being the voices of the Saudi and Qatari governments respectively.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,038
    Morning all :)

    Usually, when parties in opposition consider leadership options, they tend to think not of the worst option for their opponents but the best option for the Party itself.

    The rules are very different for parties in Government as we have seen.

    The Labour electorate will choose a leader with whom they are at least comfortable - the second and more important/difficult phase is the recognition and rationalisation of defeat and the realisation change is the only way.

    If the outcome from that is the Party goes toward the voters the Conservatives may well have a fight on their hands next time, if the outcome is the voters need to be pulled toward the Party, Boris is safe for a decade.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,421
    kinabalu said:

    The steamer in the market is Nandy. I heard she did great at the MP hustings. 14 a couple of days ago. 7 now.

    Starmer first to get the nominations.

    https://labour.org.uk/leadership-2020/
  • TrèsDifficileTrèsDifficile Posts: 1,729
    YBarddCwsc said:

    TrèsDifficile said:

    YBarddCwsc said:


    Jess is just a Bootleg Boris.

    Everything is viewed through a party political prism. The people who dislike Boris for being an insincere politician with a taste for self-publicity are the very ones now applauding Jess as "a breath of fresh air", who can reconnect with the voters.

    There is ample evidence that Jess speaks before she thinks.

    At least she's not scared to argue with Muslims about homophobia, even as MP for a constituency that's around one third Muslim.
    https://youtu.be/Zy9FAko75hE?t=15
    Source please.

    I don't know Birmingham, but I'd be very, very surprised if Yardley is 1/3 Muslim.
    Just realised having googled for Birmingham Yardley demographics, I got a page that was just for the South Yardley ward.. (33.6% Muslim)
    http://south-yardley.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/west-midlands/birmingham/south-yardley
    Stechford and Yardley North is 17.9% Muslim (and has 6 believers in Heavy Metal!)
    http://stechford-and-yardley-north.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/west-midlands/birmingham/stechford-and-yardley-north

    So I doubt it's too far off a third Muslim?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,143
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I will not be lining up behind any labour leader to be fair

    A highly commendable post. Analysis on best Labour Leader and policy direction from those who would not vote Labour if we were led by Martin Luther Churchill should perhaps be kept as brief as possible.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,734
    kicorse said:

    A genuine question to the people who have a positive view of Phillips: is this based on thinking she comes across well in the media/parliament, on or on more than that?

    The reason I ask is that, as someone who has a vote in this contest, I am mystified by the support for someone who appears to despise anyone who disagrees with her on almost any issue. Is this just a case of "It works for Trump, so maybe it'll work for her"? My guess is that this sort of politics will be out of fashion by 2024, and would probably never work on the centre-left anyway.

    My preference order is something like (1) Nandy (2) Starmer (3) Lewis (4) Long-Bailey (5) Thornberry (6) Phillips. People often put my top and bottom choices in the same bracket, but Phillips is the person on the list who would be least capable of something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl3MHMaO2Zk&t=1m16s

    I think there is a degree of 'she tells it like it is' appreciation. As you note that aggressive, blunt style does work for some politicians though I'm not generally a fan.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,143
    rottenborough said:

    Starmer first to get the nominations.

    https://labour.org.uk/leadership-2020/

    Yes, still a worthy favourite at 1.9. It's him or Nandy for me. 1st pref Nandy.

    Best betting play right now IMO is lay RLB at 3.7.

    I sense she has little chance. "The Project" is over.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    eek said:

    Brexit is going to stop a lot of Brexiters watching the football

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/use-of-satellite-decoder-cards-intended-for-eu-audiences-after-brexit

    A wonder how many lawyers sky have lined up to hit the pubs.

    Satellite decoders....how 2010....its all about internet streaming these days.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,090
    TrèsDifficile said:

    YBarddCwsc said:

    TrèsDifficile said:

    YBarddCwsc said:


    Jess is just a Bootleg Boris.

    Everything is viewed through a party political prism. The people who dislike Boris for being an insincere politician with a taste for self-publicity are the very ones now applauding Jess as "a breath of fresh air", who can reconnect with the voters.

    There is ample evidence that Jess speaks before she thinks.

    At least she's not scared to argue with Muslims about homophobia, even as MP for a constituency that's around one third Muslim.
    https://youtu.be/Zy9FAko75hE?t=15
    Source please.

    I don't know Birmingham, but I'd be very, very surprised if Yardley is 1/3 Muslim.
    Just realised having googled for Birmingham Yardley demographics, I got a page that was just for the South Yardley ward.. (33.6% Muslim)
    http://south-yardley.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/west-midlands/birmingham/south-yardley
    Stechford and Yardley North is 17.9% Muslim (and has 6 believers in Heavy Metal!)
    http://stechford-and-yardley-north.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/west-midlands/birmingham/stechford-and-yardley-north

    So I doubt it's too far off a third Muslim?
    It was 21% ten years ago so could be close to 30% now.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,421
    kinabalu said:

    rottenborough said:

    Starmer first to get the nominations.

    https://labour.org.uk/leadership-2020/

    Yes, still a worthy favourite at 1.9. It's him or Nandy for me. 1st pref Nandy.

    Best betting play right now IMO is lay RLB at 3.7.

    I sense she has little chance. "The Project" is over.
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1214596190349791233
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,421
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1214864206283055104
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,098
    edited January 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I will not be lining up behind any labour leader to be fair

    A highly commendable post. Analysis on best Labour Leader and policy direction from those who would not vote Labour if we were led by Martin Luther Churchill should perhaps be kept as brief as possible.
    Completely wrong. Those Tories who paid £3 to join the Labour Party and elect Jezza as leader had a huge influence on absolutely everything that followed since.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,574
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    eek said:

    Brexit is going to stop a lot of Brexiters watching the football

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/use-of-satellite-decoder-cards-intended-for-eu-audiences-after-brexit

    A wonder how many lawyers sky have lined up to hit the pubs.

    Satellite decoders....how 2010....its all about internet streaming these days.
    Everyone's waiting how long their Double 'Helix' DNA will last currently...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    rottenborough said:

    twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1214864206283055104

    Clive Lewis is even more deluded than RLB. What makes him think he would be a great leader of the Labour party?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,488
    isam said:

    Spelling mistake on Phillips' name in the headline

    Little known trivia is that Jess's cousin in law is the former Sunderland and Leicester player, Kevin Phillip's.

    I think Jess is great. The reason that the Corbynites dislike her is the reason that I do like her. She cuts through the crap that the Trots espouse. She first came to notice for criticising the misogyny of the hard left.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    rottenborough said:

    kinabalu said:

    rottenborough said:

    Starmer first to get the nominations.

    https://labour.org.uk/leadership-2020/

    Yes, still a worthy favourite at 1.9. It's him or Nandy for me. 1st pref Nandy.

    Best betting play right now IMO is lay RLB at 3.7.

    I sense she has little chance. "The Project" is over.
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1214596190349791233
    I am so going to pinch that Santa comment.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,767
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    eek said:

    Brexit is going to stop a lot of Brexiters watching the football

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/use-of-satellite-decoder-cards-intended-for-eu-audiences-after-brexit

    A wonder how many lawyers sky have lined up to hit the pubs.

    Satellite decoders....how 2010....its all about internet streaming these days.
    Not quite - up to January 31st you can use any european stream (satellite / internet) and Sky can't do much thing about it. Once we've left the EU - sky will have the only legal rights.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I quite like the idea of Derrick/Clive. Perhaps we could get his take on lobsters.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,488
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    eek said:

    Brexit is going to stop a lot of Brexiters watching the football

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/use-of-satellite-decoder-cards-intended-for-eu-audiences-after-brexit

    A wonder how many lawyers sky have lined up to hit the pubs.

    Satellite decoders....how 2010....its all about internet streaming these days.
    The recent Amazon Prime Streaming experiment on Boxing day went well. Pretty soon all matches will be streamed live. I suspect that this will be done by the clubs, cutting out Sky, BT and Amazon.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,143
    isam said:

    Very good. She has a happy and reassuring disposition.

    She really does. And it seems unforced. She is "ordinary" in the best sense of the word - a great contrast to the contrived persona of Johnson. I'm starting to get moderately enthusiastic about her. Definitely 1st pref for me atm. Starmer 2nd.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited January 2020
    Foxy said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    eek said:

    Brexit is going to stop a lot of Brexiters watching the football

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/use-of-satellite-decoder-cards-intended-for-eu-audiences-after-brexit

    A wonder how many lawyers sky have lined up to hit the pubs.

    Satellite decoders....how 2010....its all about internet streaming these days.
    The recent Amazon Prime Streaming experiment on Boxing day went well. Pretty soon all matches will be streamed live. I suspect that this will be done by the clubs, cutting out Sky, BT and Amazon.
    The EPL clubs would be incredibly stupid not to move to a similar model to the NFL e.g. All matches streamed live plus NFL Redzone type service. It is already possible to watch all the 3pm via illegal streams and yet everybody still goes to the games.

    However, they may want to use a company like Amazon, just because they have the tech to enable this kind of service straight out of the box.

    Who wouldn't pay say £199 a year for the EPL network streaming channel? IMO, would be a total no brainer for any football fan.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Very good. She has a happy and reassuring disposition.

    She really does. And it seems unforced. She is "ordinary" in the best sense of the word - a great contrast to the contrived persona of Johnson. I'm starting to get moderately enthusiastic about her. Definitely 1st pref for me atm. Starmer 2nd.
    I agree. She also ticks more than one diversity box, having an Asian father, which should help. Hope she wins.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    kinabalu said:

    Owen planning to elevate. Nice little piece -

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/changing-my-relationship-with-twitter-ff4d3c0106b5

    Giles Coren, in The Times yesterday.

    “ Yesterday morning, after eleven mostly unhappy and pointless years, I left Twitter. It’s no biggie. Nor is it because of something that has happened on there but rather something that happened in the real world (IRL).

    You see, as 2019 turned into 2020, the topic that was trending number one in the UK was not #NYE or even #StormzyHootenanny, but #GilesCoren. Because a piece in The Times carried a quote from me about a Labour activist and Guardian writer called Owen Jones, whom I didn’t know was gay, that Jones declared on Twitter to be homophobic. He has a million followers. They agreed with him. They piled on. That’s fine, I guess. It’s what Twitter is for. And anyway by the end of the following day I had been replaced by #WW3 — phew!

    But over the weekend Jones’s followers tweeted “we’ve found your address” and yesterday morning a group of them went round to my house, while I was at work, and started haranguing my wife and children.”
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,192
    eek said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    eek said:

    Brexit is going to stop a lot of Brexiters watching the football

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/use-of-satellite-decoder-cards-intended-for-eu-audiences-after-brexit

    A wonder how many lawyers sky have lined up to hit the pubs.

    Satellite decoders....how 2010....its all about internet streaming these days.
    Not quite - up to January 31st you can use any european stream (satellite / internet) and Sky can't do much thing about it. Once we've left the EU - sky will have the only legal rights.
    That is a very significant overstatement. Sky have been very successful in going after pubs etc using copyright on logos etc on the screen.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,767
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    eek said:

    Brexit is going to stop a lot of Brexiters watching the football

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/use-of-satellite-decoder-cards-intended-for-eu-audiences-after-brexit

    A wonder how many lawyers sky have lined up to hit the pubs.

    Satellite decoders....how 2010....its all about internet streaming these days.
    Not quite - up to January 31st you can use any european stream (satellite / internet) and Sky can't do much thing about it. Once we've left the EU - sky will have the only legal rights.
    That is a very significant overstatement. Sky have been very successful in going after pubs etc using copyright on logos etc on the screen.
    Easy to do when they are displaying Sky's upbound source (with logo) harder to claim copyright if a different source is being used.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I will not be lining up behind any labour leader to be fair

    A highly commendable post. Analysis on best Labour Leader and policy direction from those who would not vote Labour if we were led by Martin Luther Churchill should perhaps be kept as brief as possible.
    Completely wrong. Those Tories who paid £3 to join the Labour Party and elect Jezza as leader had a huge influence on absolutely everything that followed since.
    This has entered popular mythology. But, it's not true.

    There were 41,217 affiliates who voted for Corby in 2015. His winning majority was 170,955.

    Even if all 41,217 affiliates were pb Tories, Corby would still have won, and won handsomely.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    matt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Owen planning to elevate. Nice little piece -

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/changing-my-relationship-with-twitter-ff4d3c0106b5

    Giles Coren, in The Times yesterday.

    “ Yesterday morning, after eleven mostly unhappy and pointless years, I left Twitter. It’s no biggie. Nor is it because of something that has happened on there but rather something that happened in the real world (IRL).

    You see, as 2019 turned into 2020, the topic that was trending number one in the UK was not #NYE or even #StormzyHootenanny, but #GilesCoren. Because a piece in The Times carried a quote from me about a Labour activist and Guardian writer called Owen Jones, whom I didn’t know was gay, that Jones declared on Twitter to be homophobic. He has a million followers. They agreed with him. They piled on. That’s fine, I guess. It’s what Twitter is for. And anyway by the end of the following day I had been replaced by #WW3 — phew!

    But over the weekend Jones’s followers tweeted “we’ve found your address” and yesterday morning a group of them went round to my house, while I was at work, and started haranguing my wife and children.”
    Oh dear. I thought Jones was being grown up in his statement, and disliked him a little less for it. But seems there was an ulterior motive
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I will not be lining up behind any labour leader to be fair

    A highly commendable post. Analysis on best Labour Leader and policy direction from those who would not vote Labour if we were led by Martin Luther Churchill should perhaps be kept as brief as possible.
    Completely wrong. Those Tories who paid £3 to join the Labour Party and elect Jezza as leader had a huge influence on absolutely everything that followed since.
    TBH that smacks of "Russian meddling in Brexit" as a way of explaining away where the true fault lies - Labour - and nobody else - own Corbyn.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,409
    edited January 2020
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Foxy said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    eek said:

    Brexit is going to stop a lot of Brexiters watching the football

    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/use-of-satellite-decoder-cards-intended-for-eu-audiences-after-brexit

    A wonder how many lawyers sky have lined up to hit the pubs.

    Satellite decoders....how 2010....its all about internet streaming these days.
    The recent Amazon Prime Streaming experiment on Boxing day went well. Pretty soon all matches will be streamed live. I suspect that this will be done by the clubs, cutting out Sky, BT and Amazon.
    The EPL clubs would be incredibly stupid not to move to a similar model to the NFL e.g. All matches streamed live plus NFL Redzone type service. It is already possible to watch all the 3pm via illegal streams and yet everybody still goes to the games.

    However, they may want to use a company like Amazon, just because they have the tech to enable this kind of service straight out of the box.

    Who wouldn't pay say £199 a year for the EPL network streaming channel? IMO, would be a total no brainer for any football fan.
    I always find it amusing that one can go into a pub in almost any other country at 3pm UK time on a Saturday, and see every PL match live.

    The reasoning behind the rule was always to protect attendances in the lower leagues, but given the easy availabilty of the content to anyone with an internet connection, it's probably time to embrace it and offer to share the extra revenue with the lower league clubs if they'll drop the blackout clauses.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,143
    matt said:

    Giles Coren, in The Times yesterday.

    “ Yesterday morning, after eleven mostly unhappy and pointless years, I left Twitter. It’s no biggie. Nor is it because of something that has happened on there but rather something that happened in the real world (IRL).

    You see, as 2019 turned into 2020, the topic that was trending number one in the UK was not #NYE or even #StormzyHootenanny, but #GilesCoren. Because a piece in The Times carried a quote from me about a Labour activist and Guardian writer called Owen Jones, whom I didn’t know was gay, that Jones declared on Twitter to be homophobic. He has a million followers. They agreed with him. They piled on. That’s fine, I guess. It’s what Twitter is for. And anyway by the end of the following day I had been replaced by #WW3 — phew!

    But over the weekend Jones’s followers tweeted “we’ve found your address” and yesterday morning a group of them went round to my house, while I was at work, and started haranguing my wife and children.”

    Pity he isn't retiring from the Times too. Talentless supercilious hack employed mainly because of who is father was.

    "Did not know that Jones was gay" - I should coco.

    Caveat -

    Nothing wrong with his food columns. Quite good actually. Always read them.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    https://twitter.com/adharves/status/1214867841691922432?s=20
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,232
    matt said:

    kinabalu said:

    Owen planning to elevate. Nice little piece -

    https://medium.com/@OwenJones84/changing-my-relationship-with-twitter-ff4d3c0106b5

    Giles Coren, in The Times yesterday.

    “ Yesterday morning, after eleven mostly unhappy and pointless years, I left Twitter. It’s no biggie. Nor is it because of something that has happened on there but rather something that happened in the real world (IRL).

    You see, as 2019 turned into 2020, the topic that was trending number one in the UK was not #NYE or even #StormzyHootenanny, but #GilesCoren. Because a piece in The Times carried a quote from me about a Labour activist and Guardian writer called Owen Jones, whom I didn’t know was gay, that Jones declared on Twitter to be homophobic. He has a million followers. They agreed with him. They piled on. That’s fine, I guess. It’s what Twitter is for. And anyway by the end of the following day I had been replaced by #WW3 — phew!

    But over the weekend Jones’s followers tweeted “we’ve found your address” and yesterday morning a group of them went round to my house, while I was at work, and started haranguing my wife and children.”
    Twitter still not 14 years old.

    Such a wank stain on the twenty first century.....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,143
    TOPPING said:

    Completely wrong. Those Tories who paid £3 to join the Labour Party and elect Jezza as leader had a huge influence on absolutely everything that followed since.

    Did they though? What % of the total vote comprised closet Tories? Do we have any reliable data on this?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,937
    CarlottaVance said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    I will not be lining up behind any labour leader to be fair

    A highly commendable post. Analysis on best Labour Leader and policy direction from those who would not vote Labour if we were led by Martin Luther Churchill should perhaps be kept as brief as possible.
    Completely wrong. Those Tories who paid £3 to join the Labour Party and elect Jezza as leader had a huge influence on absolutely everything that followed since.
    TBH that smacks of "Russian meddling in Brexit" as a way of explaining away where the true fault lies - Labour - and nobody else - own Corbyn.
    Surely those who voted for him in the leadership election are responsible and therefore 'own' Corbyn - and that includes £3 Tories.
    They also are responsible for all that flowed from Corbyn becoming leader - Brexit, possibly Trump and also Boris.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,143
    isam said:

    Oh dear. I thought Jones was being grown up in his statement, and disliked him a little less for it. But seems there was an ulterior motive

    If he was indeed influenced by actions of his "fans" that he thought dangerous and reprehensible, and wished to ensure no repeat thereof, that is OK, isn't it?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Yes dear, but how are they to hold the EU accountable? If you'd answered that we wouldn't be leaving.....

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1214874154081673216?s=20
  • kicorsekicorse Posts: 437
    TrèsDifficile said:


    At least she's not scared to argue with Muslims about homophobia, even as MP for a constituency that's around one third Muslim.
    https://youtu.be/Zy9FAko75hE?t=15

    But what did she achieve there? She provided gratification for us who are angry with the protesters. She raised her own personal profile. She also raised the temperature of a fractious situation and entrenched opinion among people who we disagree with. She even talked them down after they had stayed quiet while she had her say. Did she really think that would do any good? Of course not.

    The right thing to do would have been to visit the protesters and listen carefully to their point of view, and then respond in a way that does not compromise her principles but also does not deliberately stoke the flames. That's something that any councillor, or for that matter anyone with managerial responsibilities in their local supermarket, should understand.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    edited January 2020
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    Oh dear. I thought Jones was being grown up in his statement, and disliked him a little less for it. But seems there was an ulterior motive

    If he was indeed influenced by actions of his "fans" that he thought dangerous and reprehensible, and wished to ensure no repeat thereof, that is OK, isn't it?
    Has he only just noticed this sort of behaviour on Twitter? Of course not.

    That is why it feels like there is something else behind his decision.

    It is the right move. But why had it taken him so long when Twitter toxicity has been a big factor for a very long time?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,232
    CarlottaVance said:

    Yes dear, but how are they to hold the EU accountable? If you'd answered that we wouldn't be leaving.....

    https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1214874154081673216?s=20

    Brexit showed we were disatisfied with forty years of the status quo....

    (as the EU goes down, down, deeper and down.....)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,734
    kicorse said:

    TrèsDifficile said:


    At least she's not scared to argue with Muslims about homophobia, even as MP for a constituency that's around one third Muslim.
    https://youtu.be/Zy9FAko75hE?t=15

    But what did she achieve there? She provided gratification for us who are angry with the protesters. She raised her own personal profile. She also raised the temperature of a fractious situation and entrenched opinion among people who we disagree with. She even talked them down after they had stayed quiet while she had her say. Did she really think that would do any good? Of course not.

    The right thing to do would have been to visit the protesters and listen carefully to their point of view, and then respond in a way that does not compromise her principles but also does not deliberately stoke the flames. That's something that any councillor, or for that matter anyone with managerial responsibilities in their local supermarket, should understand.
    Sometimes the flames cannot be unstoked when the positions are diametrically opposed. I shy away from advising confrontation and escalation, but sometimes being mealy mouthed for the sake of not being confrontation achieves nothing or even makes it worse.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,761
    kinabalu said:

    matt said:

    Giles Coren, in The Times yesterday.

    “ Yesterday morning, after eleven mostly unhappy and pointless years, I left Twitter. It’s no biggie. Nor is it because of something that has happened on there but rather something that happened in the real world (IRL).

    You see, as 2019 turned into 2020, the topic that was trending number one in the UK was not #NYE or even #StormzyHootenanny, but #GilesCoren. Because a piece in The Times carried a quote from me about a Labour activist and Guardian writer called Owen Jones, whom I didn’t know was gay, that Jones declared on Twitter to be homophobic. He has a million followers. They agreed with him. They piled on. That’s fine, I guess. It’s what Twitter is for. And anyway by the end of the following day I had been replaced by #WW3 — phew!

    But over the weekend Jones’s followers tweeted “we’ve found your address” and yesterday morning a group of them went round to my house, while I was at work, and started haranguing my wife and children.”

    Pity he isn't retiring from the Times too. Talentless supercilious hack employed mainly because of who is father was.

    "Did not know that Jones was gay" - I should coco.

    Caveat -

    Nothing wrong with his food columns. Quite good actually. Always read them.
    His legendary rant at the minion sub-editor who removed a single 'a' from his article is always a hoot:

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/jul/23/mediamonkey
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