What I can't understand is why the SNP don't accept the completely obvious:
The letter from Mario Tenreiro, of the commission's secretariat general, stated: "It would, of course, be legally possible to renegotiate the situation of the UK and Scotland within the EU. Of course, this would imply a change of the treaties which could only be done by unanimity of all member states."
How could it possibly be otherwise? All sorts of details, such as the level of budget contribution, Schengen, the Euro, the commissioners, number of MEPs etc all would need to be agreed. There's no provision for arranging it any other way.
Of course it is also true that, in practice, our EU friends are not going to do anything disruptive in terms of trade, although Spain is a complicating factor.
It would be interesting if a Scottish departure triggered a formal Lisbon re-negotiation. A useful opportunity, which UKIPers would no doubt want to sabotage by ensuring there was a Labour government in place ready to get absolutely nothing in return as usual.
What I can't understand is why the SNP don't accept the completely obvious:
The letter from Mario Tenreiro, of the commission's secretariat general, stated: "It would, of course, be legally possible to renegotiate the situation of the UK and Scotland within the EU. Of course, this would imply a change of the treaties which could only be done by unanimity of all member states."
How could it possibly be otherwise? All sorts of details, such as the level of budget contribution, Schengen, the Euro, the commissioners, number of MEPs etc all would need to be agreed. There's no provision for arranging it any other way.
Of course it is also true that, in practice, our EU friends are not going to do anything disruptive in terms of trade, although Spain is a complicating factor.
It would be interesting if a Scottish departure triggered a formal Lisbon re-negotiation. A useful opportunity, which UKIPers would no doubt want to sabotage by ensuring there was a Labour government in place ready to get absolutely nothing in return as usual.
Scotland would stay in the EU but get screwed on the conditions and a desperate Eck would have little choice but to agree, bar one or two bits of face saving.
Green c**p, payday loans and now cigarettes – the Tory leadership needs to avoid losing its sense of self
Last week’s “green c**p” folly was rather dismal. I wrote a post about it at the time. The issue wasn’t so much whether Cameron had or hadn’t said those words, but more that they sum up one of his most grievous flaws. One minute, he’s a committed green ranger, defining himself and his party by their environmentalism. The next, he’s a hard-headed energy pragmatist, who barely signs up to any of that stuff. Or is he? No, maybe, yes, don’t know. It leaves you wondering how tightly David Cameron holds on to any of these convictions of his.
I don’t mention this again just to depress you, but because the flip-floppery highlighted by the “green c**p” story has continued into this week. A couple of days ago, we discovered that the Government is to introduce a cap on the cost of payday loans – despite previously resisting one. And today it’s announced that they’re also looking to consign cigarettes to plain packaging before the next election – despite pledging not to only a few months ago.
Surprise surprise. As forecast by many of the less screwy on here. The entire idea it would be kicked out was always risible. No needs to find some new tunes. The whatabouteey has all the debating elegance of a PB Tory on a wet Monday in Falkirk.
Helpful hint: read the article, not just the headline. What he says is that we would have to fight like hell to ensure Scotland stayed in the EU, implying that he sees a real risk that it otherwise wouldn't. So a political not legal point, (which makes his status as "judicial expert" a bit irrelevant) and saying pretty much the opposite to what you want it to say..
What's stopping the Liberals cutting and running in the Autumn if they decide they have nothing left to lose? Might as well chance it on the off chance they get some sort of dividend for pulling the plug on the Coalition.
That's easy to answer. The Lib Dems have been relying on a coalition government for decades. One they get power in one, they need to show that they are sane and serious partners in government. There will be a time to cut and run, but this autumn is far too early for that. Autumn 2014 at the earliest, IMHO, and more likely winter/spring 2015.
Remarkably, the coalition has been working quite well in my opinion. Long term, this may be a great advertisement for a change in the electoral system, which will help the Lib Dems.
Perhaps the AV referendum came a GE too early ...
Then again, I would say that given my political leanings, and you might well say otherwise.
Surprise surprise. As forecast by many of the less screwy on here. The entire idea it would be kicked out was always risible. No needs to find some new tunes. The whatabouteey has all the debating elegance of a PB Tory on a wet Monday in Falkirk.
You really should read these articles before pontificating....
"But the significance of that disclosure was quickly undermined after it emerged that Salmond's aides had downloaded the letter from a nationalist website, Newsnet Scotland, and had not been officially sent that opinion by Brussels."
Scotland would stay in the EU but get screwed on the conditions and a desperate Eck would have little choice but to agree, bar one or two bits of face saving.
Precisely so. Their bargaining position would be extremely weak, but in practice no-one would want them to leave; it would just be too messy. So there would be horse-trading as usual. It's near-inconceivable that they'd actually be excluded, but the exact mechanism, timing and conditions would require negotiation.
Clearly there are at least four very sticky points:
1) Spain's position: they'd have to make Scotland sweat for internal reasons. They might insist on Scotland having some kind of associate membership for a period.
2) The Euro: Many EU states would not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Would probably be used as a bargaining chip
What I can't understand is why the SNP don't accept the completely obvious:
The letter from Mario Tenreiro, of the commission's secretariat general, stated: "It would, of course, be legally possible to renegotiate the situation of the UK and Scotland within the EU. Of course, this would imply a change of the treaties which could only be done by unanimity of all member states."
How could it possibly be otherwise? All sorts of details, such as the level of budget contribution, Schengen, the Euro, the commissioners, number of MEPs etc all would need to be agreed. There's no provision for arranging it any other way.
Of course it is also true that, in practice, our EU friends are not going to do anything disruptive in terms of trade, although Spain is a complicating factor.
It would be interesting if a Scottish departure triggered a formal Lisbon re-negotiation. A useful opportunity, which UKIPers would no doubt want to sabotage by ensuring there was a Labour government in place ready to get absolutely nothing in return as usual.
Scotland would stay in the EU but get screwed on the conditions and a desperate Eck would have little choice but to agree, bar one or two bits of face saving.
Scotland's Future is an anagram of 'Fraudulent Costs'.....
....Stunted Scrofula... .....and many many others.....
Huhne is a total disgrace and the LD party should disown him..not to do so is to condone his lying , deceitful behaviour that led to a prison sentence..
Scotland would stay in the EU but get screwed on the conditions and a desperate Eck would have little choice but to agree, bar one or two bits of face saving.
Precisely so. Their bargaining position would be extremely weak, but in practice no-one would want them to leave; it would just be too messy. So there would be horse-trading as usual. It's near-inconceivable that they'd actually be excluded, but the exact mechanism, timing and conditions would require negotiation.
Clearly there are at least four very sticky points:
1) Spain's position: they'd have to make Scotland sweat for internal reasons. They might insist on Scotland having some kind of associate membership for a period.
2) The Euro: Many EU states would not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Would probably be used as a bargaining chip
Surprise surprise. As forecast by many of the less screwy on here. The entire idea it would be kicked out was always risible. No needs to find some new tunes. The whatabouteey has all the debating elegance of a PB Tory on a wet Monday in Falkirk.
The most hilarious thing about the obsequious Cameroons and PB tories pontificating on how Salmond would be bound to fail at negotiations is that they have to pretend Cammie (the same Cammie who flounced out with his veto debacle) will somehow manage to negotiate Cast Iron Guarantees on all sort of things before his IN/OUT referendum, but they don't have a clue what they are.
Surprise surprise. As forecast by many of the less screwy on here. The entire idea it would be kicked out was always risible. No needs to find some new tunes. The whatabouteey has all the debating elegance of a PB Tory on a wet Monday in Falkirk.
saying pretty much the opposite to what you want it to say.
I'm not sure BobaJob is quite the full shilling.....
Scotland would stay in the EU but get screwed on the conditions and a desperate Eck would have little choice but to agree, bar one or two bits of face saving.
Precisely so. Their bargaining position would be extremely weak, but in practice no-one would want them to leave; it would just be too messy. So there would be horse-trading as usual. It's near-inconceivable that they'd actually be excluded, but the exact mechanism, timing and conditions would require negotiation.
Clearly there are at least four very sticky points:
1) Spain's position: they'd have to make Scotland sweat for internal reasons. They might insist on Scotland having some kind of associate membership for a period.
2) The Euro: Many EU states will not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Will probably be used as a bargaining chip
4) The budget and the rebate.
And we already have the set up of "good cop" - the Commission - and "bad cop" - Spain.
They will lose the rebate automatically, I'd be a bit pessimistic on EU claims on anything to do with territorial waters - fishing, oil - where the EU has been pushing steadily it's right to decide and tax, Schengen they'll stay out but have to haggle it, Euro will need to be committed to and therefore Commission right to approve budget, banking supervision will be a risk for Edinburgh's financial sector and opt outs on the social chapter would be hard to retain.
Surprise surprise. As forecast by many of the less screwy on here. The entire idea it would be kicked out was always risible. No needs to find some new tunes. The whatabouteey has all the debating elegance of a PB Tory on a wet Monday in Falkirk.
Salmond would be bound to fail at negotiations
No.
We just say he would have to enter into them.
Which is more than he (or you, or your useful idiots) seem willing to accept...
How much fishing do you think you'll have to give up to buy off the Spanish?
Surprise surprise. As forecast by many of the less screwy on here. The entire idea it would be kicked out was always risible. No needs to find some new tunes. The whatabouteey has all the debating elegance of a PB Tory on a wet Monday in Falkirk.
The most hilarious thing about the obsequious Cameroons and PB tories pontificating on how Salmond would be bound to fail at negotiations is that they have to pretend Cammie (the same Cammie who flounced out with his veto debacle) will somehow manage to negotiate Cast Iron Guarantees on all sort of things before his IN/OUT referendum, but they don't have a clue what they are.
Quite. It's laughable. As is the No campaign at the moment. Clueless.
2) The Euro: Many EU states would not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Would probably be used as a bargaining chip
Actually, the last thing the Eurozone wants is a reluctant additional member. I suspect they'd agree to some face saving wording about Scotland joining "when the time was right".
Regarding Schengen, presumably Scotland would be exactly the same as Ireland and stay out of it, because it would require sealing the border with the UK (as otherwise we would effectively be joining Schengen). Personally, I'd happily sign us up to Schengen, and simultaneously remove us from the EU. But I appreciate my view is a minority one.
Huhne is a total disgrace and the LD party should disown him..not to do so is to condone his lying , deceitful behaviour that led to a prison sentence..
He's done his time. Let the guy get on with his life.
2) The Euro: Many EU states would not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Would probably be used as a bargaining chip
Actually, the last thing the Eurozone wants is a reluctant additional member. I suspect they'd agree to some face saving wording about Scotland joining "when the time was right".
Regarding Schengen, presumably Scotland would be exactly the same as Ireland and stay out of it, because it would require sealing the border with the UK (as otherwise we would effectively be joining Schengen).
Yes, in practice both of those are probably true as the final outcome, but they would still have to be formally agreed, and no doubt would be held back as 'concessions' to be offered during the negotiations in return for something else.
banking supervision will be a risk for Edinburgh's financial sector
Edinburgh has Scottish Widows, and Baillie Gifford - that's not so much a financial sector as a large solicitor's offices. RBS employs about five times as many people in London as Edinburgh and the treasury function is here too. I can't see how RBS could avoid becoming a UK company (especially given it will still be owned by the rUK state).
Surprise surprise. As forecast by many of the less screwy on here. The entire idea it would be kicked out was always risible. No needs to find some new tunes. The whatabouteey has all the debating elegance of a PB Tory on a wet Monday in Falkirk.
You really should read these articles before pontificating....
"But the significance of that disclosure was quickly undermined after it emerged that Salmond's aides had downloaded the letter from a nationalist website, Newsnet Scotland, and had not been officially sent that opinion by Brussels."
Erm, that wasn't the premise of the article - which was about a judge's view on Scotland remaining in.
banking supervision will be a risk for Edinburgh's financial sector
Edinburgh has Scottish Widows, and Baillie Gifford - that's not so much a financial sector as a large solicitor's offices. RBS employs about five times as many people in London as Edinburgh and the treasury function is here too. I can't see how RBS could avoid becoming a UK company (especially given it will still be owned by the rUK state).
Depends how the bank split goes. I could see RBS and BOS returning to their roots in a split but leaving Natwest and Lloyds behind. Who else will want them ?
banking supervision will be a risk for Edinburgh's financial sector
Edinburgh has Scottish Widows, and Baillie Gifford - that's not so much a financial sector as a large solicitor's offices. RBS employs about five times as many people in London as Edinburgh and the treasury function is here too. I can't see how RBS could avoid becoming a UK company (especially given it will still be owned by the rUK state).
Actually, thinking about it, we'd have to say "Scotland, you can be independent, but you have to take RBS with you. And you have to agree not to let Fred Godwin ever cross the border into rUK."
What's stopping the Liberals cutting and running in the Autumn if they decide they have nothing left to lose? Might as well chance it on the off chance they get some sort of dividend for pulling the plug on the Coalition.
That's easy to answer. The Lib Dems have been relying on a coalition government for decades. One they get power in one, they need to show that they are sane and serious partners in government. There will be a time to cut and run, but this autumn is far too early for that. Autumn 2014 at the earliest, IMHO, and more likely winter/spring 2015.
Remarkably, the coalition has been working quite well in my opinion. Long term, this may be a great advertisement for a change in the electoral system, which will help the Lib Dems.
Perhaps the AV referendum came a GE too early ...
Then again, I would say that given my political leanings, and you might well say otherwise.
I was referring to autumn 2014! I'm not expecting them to pull the plug by Sunday!
2) The Euro: Many EU states would not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Would probably be used as a bargaining chip
Actually, the last thing the Eurozone wants is a reluctant additional member. I suspect they'd agree to some face saving wording about Scotland joining "when the time was right".
Regarding Schengen, presumably Scotland would be exactly the same as Ireland and stay out of it, because it would require sealing the border with the UK (as otherwise we would effectively be joining Schengen).
Yes, in practice both of those are probably true as the final outcome, but they would still have to be formally agreed, and no doubt would be held back as 'concessions' to be offered during the negotiations in return for something else.
And in forcing a commitment to the Euro at some future date, in the short term the EU will want to have a say over the Scottish budget on the grounds it's about getting ready for the eventual day.
banking supervision will be a risk for Edinburgh's financial sector
Edinburgh has Scottish Widows, and Baillie Gifford - that's not so much a financial sector as a large solicitor's offices. RBS employs about five times as many people in London as Edinburgh and the treasury function is here too. I can't see how RBS could avoid becoming a UK company (especially given it will still be owned by the rUK state).
It's a bit more than that, isn't it? Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Mgt, various other insurance companies, fund managers, pension providers, etc. According to this website financial services represent 7% of Scotland's GDP:
2) The Euro: Many EU states would not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Would probably be used as a bargaining chip
Actually, the last thing the Eurozone wants is a reluctant additional member. I suspect they'd agree to some face saving wording about Scotland joining "when the time was right".
Regarding Schengen, presumably Scotland would be exactly the same as Ireland and stay out of it, because it would require sealing the border with the UK (as otherwise we would effectively be joining Schengen).
Yes, in practice both of those are probably true as the final outcome, but they would still have to be formally agreed, and no doubt would be held back as 'concessions' to be offered during the negotiations in return for something else.
And in forcing a commitment to the Euro at some future date, in the short term the EU will want to have a say over the Scottish budget on the grounds it's about getting ready for the eventual day.
Surely it will be in exactly the same position as Sweden. Really, I suspect the last thing that Germany wants (and with it the contributor nations such as Austria, Poland, the Netherlands...) is to end up in arguments with Scotland about its budget. I could be wrong, but until Scotland joins the Euro (as some future, undetermined point) then I can't imagine that the governor of the ECB or the Chancellor of Germany actually give a shit about the Scottish budget. What they care about is keeping their contraption alive, and complications around the edge (with countries that aren't even in the Eurozone) just won't be interesting to them.
After all, the whole point about 'overseeing of national budgets' is that it is the quid pro quo of Germany agreeing to backstop others' national debts. While Scotland was part of the Sterling-zone that simply would not be an issue.
banking supervision will be a risk for Edinburgh's financial sector
Edinburgh has Scottish Widows, and Baillie Gifford - that's not so much a financial sector as a large solicitor's offices. RBS employs about five times as many people in London as Edinburgh and the treasury function is here too. I can't see how RBS could avoid becoming a UK company (especially given it will still be owned by the rUK state).
It's a bit more than that, isn't it? Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Mgt, various other insurance companies, fund managers, pension providers, etc. According to this website financial services represent 7% of Scotland's GDP:
banking supervision will be a risk for Edinburgh's financial sector
Edinburgh has Scottish Widows, and Baillie Gifford - that's not so much a financial sector as a large solicitor's offices. RBS employs about five times as many people in London as Edinburgh and the treasury function is here too. I can't see how RBS could avoid becoming a UK company (especially given it will still be owned by the rUK state).
It's a bit more than that, isn't it? Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Mgt, various other insurance companies, fund managers, pension providers, etc. According to this website financial services represent 7% of Scotland's GDP:
2) The Euro: Many EU states would not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Would probably be used as a bargaining chip
Actually, the last thing the Eurozone wants is a reluctant additional member. I suspect they'd agree to some face saving wording about Scotland joining "when the time was right".
Regarding Schengen, presumably Scotland would be exactly the same as Ireland and stay out of it, because it would require sealing the border with the UK (as otherwise we would effectively be joining Schengen).
Yes, in practice both of those are probably true as the final outcome, but they would still have to be formally agreed, and no doubt would be held back as 'concessions' to be offered during the negotiations in return for something else.
And in forcing a commitment to the Euro at some future date, in the short term the EU will want to have a say over the Scottish budget on the grounds it's about getting ready for the eventual day.
After all, the whole point about 'overseeing of national budgets' is that it is the quid pro quo of Germany agreeing to backstop others' national debts. While Scotland was part of the Sterling-zone that simply would not be an issue.
But is it ? The point about Sweden is it's already in, and while the tide of the acquis communautaire can resisted to a point, for a new member that option is harder to exercise. From what I've seen of the newer entrants, they're having to sign up to the full package. As for the "problem" of the ECB, the Germans are control freaks and the Commission likes to acquire powers as and when it can. I doubt they'll pass up on the opportunity.
2) The Euro: Many EU states would not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Would probably be used as a bargaining chip
Actually, the last thing the Eurozone wants is a reluctant additional member. I suspect they'd agree to some face saving wording about Scotland joining "when the time was right".
Regarding Schengen, presumably Scotland would be exactly the same as Ireland and stay out of it, because it would require sealing the border with the UK (as otherwise we would effectively be joining Schengen).
Yes, in practice both of those are probably true as the final outcome, but they would still have to be formally agreed, and no doubt would be held back as 'concessions' to be offered during the negotiations in return for something else.
And in forcing a commitment to the Euro at some future date, in the short term the EU will want to have a say over the Scottish budget on the grounds it's about getting ready for the eventual day.
Surely it will be in exactly the same position as Sweden. Really, I suspect the last thing that Germany wants (and with it the contributor nations such as Austria, Poland, the Netherlands...) is to end up in arguments with Scotland about its budget. I could be wrong, but until Scotland joins the Euro (as some future, undetermined point) then I can't imagine that the governor of the ECB or the Chancellor of Germany actually give a shit about the Scottish budget. What they care about is keeping their contraption alive, and complications around the edge (with countries that aren't even in the Eurozone) just won't be interesting to them.
After all, the whole point about 'overseeing of national budgets' is that it is the quid pro quo of Germany agreeing to backstop others' national debts. While Scotland was part of the Sterling-zone that simply would not be an issue.
Indeed. There's no incentive for them to kick the Scots out so why would they? Pointless sabre rattling that fools no one.
ndeed. There's no incentive for them to kick the Scots out so why would they? Pointless sabre rattling that fools no one.
You forget those PB tories doing the cheering on the pointless sabre rattling are most of the same gullible ones who believe Cammie's Cast Iron guarantees without question but have no idea what specific powers Cameron is supposed to renegotiate before the IN/OUT referendum.
2) The Euro: Many EU states would not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Would probably be used as a bargaining chip
Actually, the last thing the Eurozone wants is a reluctant additional member. I suspect they'd agree to some face saving wording about Scotland joining "when the time was right".
Regarding Schengen, presumably Scotland would be exactly the same as Ireland and stay out of it, because it would require sealing the border with the UK (as otherwise we would effectively be joining Schengen).
Yes, in practice both of those are probably true as the final outcome, but they would still have to be formally agreed, and no doubt would be held back as 'concessions' to be offered during the negotiations in return for something else.
And in forcing a commitment to the Euro at some future date, in the short term the EU will want to have a say over the Scottish budget on the grounds it's about getting ready for the eventual day.
After all, the whole point about 'overseeing of national budgets' is that it is the quid pro quo of Germany agreeing to backstop others' national debts. While Scotland was part of the Sterling-zone that simply would not be an issue.
But is it ? The point about Sweden is it's already in, and while the tide of the acquis communautaire can resisted to a point, for a new member that option is harder to exercise. From what I've seen of the newer entrants, they're having to sign up to the full package. As for the "problem" of the ECB, the Germans are control freaks and the Commission likes to acquire powers as and when it can. I doubt they'll pass up on the opportunity.
It is now mandatory. I think Scotland's case will be that it is not a "new" country. Simply a broken part of a country that is already in.
I'm sure Farage, the kippers and eurosceptic backbenchers won't notice.
Can't understand why Dave isn't shouting the good news from the rooftops regarding hardworking people coming here to help Britain win the global race My PB Tory chums won't join me in a toast, it's weird
Bjob .. Huhne has done his time ,which he richly deserved.. but are the LD's happy for this man to be their public face, their spokesperson.. There comes a time when it is better to just fade away when you have displayed total contempt for the law..most ex cons seem to do that.
Yet Another Resounding Failure for Labour's Policy In Wales
Many pupils in Wales have no idea how to take a maths test, a highly critical report has found.
From May next year, children will sit numerical reasoning tests in an effort to improve numeracy skills.
But the results of pre-testing revealed learners did not understand basic concepts or check their work, copied from each other, gave ridiculous answers or left most questions blank......
This is yet another example of the result of Labour's dumbing down of education standards and being happy for children to be average of a bad average for political purposes. What a miserable future they have condemned these children to have - unemployed as they will be unemployable - whilst better educated immigrants swoop up the available jobs. The result of a total lack of aspiration for the people of Wales.
Imagine if that had been a Brit in a foreign country where govt politicians are stirring up anti immigrant feeling.
That's pretty obnoxious, linking it to immigration fears.
As I understood it, the case was entirely related to a false accusation of paedophillia. Appalling, but not to do with immigration.
Take it up with Brogan
"Mr Ebrahimi's sister, Manizhah Moores said her brother, an Iranian national, had suffered racial abuse while living in Bristol and his previous home had been the subject of an arson attack."
Disability hate crime has risen since Bible IDS started telling lots of lies too, who knows whether the two are linked.
Imagine if that had been a Brit in a foreign country where govt politicians are stirring up anti immigrant feeling.
That's pretty obnoxious, linking it to immigration fears.
As I understood it, the case was entirely related to a false accusation of paedophillia. Appalling, but not to do with immigration.
Take it up with Brogan
"Mr Ebrahimi's sister, Manizhah Moores said her brother, an Iranian national, had suffered racial abuse while living in Bristol and his previous home had been the subject of an arson attack."
Disability hate crime has risen since Bible IDS started telling lots of lies too, who knows whether the two are linked.
The article doesn't posit racial abuse as a causi belli.
Until about 10 years ago someone convicted of a crime like Huhne or Pryce would have been too embarrassed to appear in public for a long time.
And as the fish rots from the head the behavior of the political class/celebs etc effects the behaviour of the whole society.
Have you never once, in either your personal or professional life, done anything which you regard as being as bad as Huhne's offence? Not once?
I've done much worse and a lot more times than once.
However that doesn't change the *practical* truth that misbehaviour among the political class/celebs etc has a much wider impact than misbehaviour elsewhere and needs to be treated differently.
Yet Another Resounding Failure for Labour's Policy In Wales
Many pupils in Wales have no idea how to take a maths test, a highly critical report has found.
From May next year, children will sit numerical reasoning tests in an effort to improve numeracy skills.
But the results of pre-testing revealed learners did not understand basic concepts or check their work, copied from each other, gave ridiculous answers or left most questions blank......
This is yet another example of the result of Labour's dumbing down of education standards and being happy for children to be average of a bad average for political purposes. What a miserable future they have condemned these children to have - unemployed as they will be unemployable - whilst better educated immigrants swoop up the available jobs. The result of a total lack of aspiration for the people of Wales.
Let's hope the unlucky little blighters don't fall ill and need the Welsh NHS
Scotland would stay in the EU but get screwed on the conditions and a desperate Eck would have little choice but to agree, bar one or two bits of face saving.
Precisely so. Their bargaining position would be extremely weak, but in practice no-one would want them to leave; it would just be too messy. So there would be horse-trading as usual. It's near-inconceivable that they'd actually be excluded, but the exact mechanism, timing and conditions would require negotiation.
Clearly there are at least four very sticky points:
1) Spain's position: they'd have to make Scotland sweat for internal reasons. They might insist on Scotland having some kind of associate membership for a period.
2) The Euro: Many EU states would not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Would probably be used as a bargaining chip
4) The budget and the rebate.
Don't see how Scotland could sign up to Schengen without putting border controls in place between rUK and Scotland though.
Surprise surprise. As forecast by many of the less screwy on here. The entire idea it would be kicked out was always risible. No needs to find some new tunes. The whatabouteey has all the debating elegance of a PB Tory on a wet Monday in Falkirk.
The most hilarious thing about the obsequious Cameroons and PB tories pontificating on how Salmond would be bound to fail at negotiations is that they have to pretend Cammie (the same Cammie who flounced out with his veto debacle) will somehow manage to negotiate Cast Iron Guarantees on all sort of things before his IN/OUT referendum, but they don't have a clue what they are.
The difference is that Cameron is threatening (at least in theory) to leave, which the EU doesn't want. Scotland is petitioning to join which the EU can pretend to be indifferent to.
Sad thing is its a good news story for the govt if the imbecilic Cameron hadn't made net migration his target. If he'd used immigration as a marker its down (sadly because most of the drop is from overseas students, which obviously damages the economy, but lets let that pass for a moment) and he could tout that figure while claiming that workers are coming here due to economic competence. But he screwed the whole thing up by choosing a really,really dumb measure.
Just wait till the height of the EU election campaign and afterwards. Then you'll see some stupendously dumb posturing and targets forced on Cameron by fearful eurosceptic tories. If the posturing looks laughable now you ain't seen nothing yet.
Huhne is a total disgrace and the LD party should disown him..not to do so is to condone his lying , deceitful behaviour that led to a prison sentence..
He's done his time. Let the guy get on with his life.
Until about 10 years ago someone convicted of a crime like Huhne or Pryce would have been too embarrassed to appear in public for a long time.
And as the fish rots from the head the behavior of the political class/celebs etc effects the behaviour of the whole society.
Have you never once, in either your personal or professional life, done anything which you regard as being as bad as Huhne's offence? Not once?
I've done much worse and a lot more times than once.
However that doesn't change the *practical* truth that misbehaviour among the political class/celebs etc has a much wider impact than misbehaviour elsewhere and needs to be treated differently.
Disagree. More human beings in politics, treated like everyone else, would be beneficial.
banking supervision will be a risk for Edinburgh's financial sector
Edinburgh has Scottish Widows, and Baillie Gifford - that's not so much a financial sector as a large solicitor's offices. RBS employs about five times as many people in London as Edinburgh and the treasury function is here too. I can't see how RBS could avoid becoming a UK company (especially given it will still be owned by the rUK state).
It's a bit more than that, isn't it? Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Mgt, various other insurance companies, fund managers, pension providers, etc. According to this website financial services represent 7% of Scotland's GDP:
banking supervision will be a risk for Edinburgh's financial sector
Edinburgh has Scottish Widows, and Baillie Gifford - that's not so much a financial sector as a large solicitor's offices. RBS employs about five times as many people in London as Edinburgh and the treasury function is here too. I can't see how RBS could avoid becoming a UK company (especially given it will still be owned by the rUK state).
It's a bit more than that, isn't it? Standard Life, Aberdeen Asset Mgt, various other insurance companies, fund managers, pension providers, etc. According to this website financial services represent 7% of Scotland's GDP:
Again, an absurd piece of sophistry unless you believe Brussels is not in the EU.
You think Brussels is a country?
Wow!
No. Yet again you miss my point. Scotland is in the EU. Brussels is in the EU. Neither are on the list of member states, but nevertheless they are in the EU. Quite simple.
Until about 10 years ago someone convicted of a crime like Huhne or Pryce would have been too embarrassed to appear in public for a long time.
And as the fish rots from the head the behavior of the political class/celebs etc effects the behaviour of the whole society.
Have you never once, in either your personal or professional life, done anything which you regard as being as bad as Huhne's offence? Not once?
I've done much worse and a lot more times than once.
However that doesn't change the *practical* truth that misbehaviour among the political class/celebs etc has a much wider impact than misbehaviour elsewhere and needs to be treated differently.
Disagree. More human beings in politics, treated like everyone else, would be beneficial.
People will operate the same way whether you agree or not. It's called elite emulation.
Again, an absurd piece of sophistry unless you believe Brussels is not in the EU.
You think Brussels is a country?
Wow!
No. Yet again you miss my point. Scotland is in the EU. Brussels is in the EU. Neither are on the list of member states, but nevertheless they are in the EU. Quite simple.
...thus giving us the factually correct but largely pointless answer to the pub quiz question: What do Scotland, Brussels and my dead cat have in common?
Again, an absurd piece of sophistry unless you believe Brussels is not in the EU.
You think Brussels is a country?
Wow!
No. Yet again you miss my point. Scotland is in the EU. Brussels is in the EU. Neither are on the list of member states, but nevertheless they are in the EU. Quite simple.
...thus giving us the factually correct but largely pointless answer to the pub quiz question: What do Scotland, Brussels and my dead cat have in common?
...thus giving us the factually correct but largely pointless answer to the pub quiz question: What do Scotland, Brussels and my dead cat have in common?
My greenhouse just declared unilateral independence, and claims a share of CAP "cos it's in the EU" and some bloke on the Internet said it was OK...
Let everyone be absolutely clear on one thing..No one but the smoker is responsible for them taking up smoking..It is ridiculous and idiotic to blame a Political Party of any hue for someone to start smoking.. Billions have been spent over many years informing people of the dangers.. If an individual chooses to smoke then it is their choice..only an idiot would state otherwise..
The most important question around the issue of Scotland and the EU is the number of seats Scotland and rUK would get in the European Parliament.
Scotland would go up to around 13 seats, based on other similar sized countries. But the rUK would only go down about 8 seats compared to the UK currently. This is because the allocation of seats is weighted to smaller countries. Thus Scotland plus rUK would have around 5 more seats as UK now.
The problem comes that the number of MEPs is fixed at 751, so some other EU countries will have to lose MEPs in 2019 just because Scotland split up from the UK.
This of course assumes Scotland is a member of the EU in 2019.
What's stopping the Liberals cutting and running in the Autumn if they decide they have nothing left to lose? Might as well chance it on the off chance they get some sort of dividend for pulling the plug on the Coalition.
That's easy to answer. The Lib Dems have been relying on a coalition government for decades. One they get power in one, they need to show that they are sane and serious partners in government. There will be a time to cut and run, but this autumn is far too early for that. Autumn 2014 at the earliest, IMHO, and more likely winter/spring 2015.
Remarkably, the coalition has been working quite well in my opinion. Long term, this may be a great advertisement for a change in the electoral system, which will help the Lib Dems.
Perhaps the AV referendum came a GE too early ...
Then again, I would say that given my political leanings, and you might well say otherwise.
I was referring to autumn 2014! I'm not expecting them to pull the plug by Sunday!
Ahem, yes. ;-)
Astrononomically (i.e. non-meteorologically), winter starts on December 21st, so they still have over three weeks.
Although I should have noticed that we are actually in the autumn. Perhaps the leaves littering my garden were a sign ...
Sad thing is its a good news story for the govt if the imbecilic Cameron hadn't made net migration his target. If he'd used immigration as a marker its down (sadly because most of the drop is from overseas students, which obviously damages the economy, but lets let that pass for a moment) and he could tout that figure while claiming that workers are coming here due to economic competence. But he screwed the whole thing up by choosing a really,really dumb measure.
Just wait till the height of the EU election campaign and afterwards. Then you'll see some stupendously dumb posturing and targets forced on Cameron by fearful eurosceptic tories. If the posturing looks laughable now you ain't seen nothing yet.
It's not so much about immigration as the increase (and rate of increase) in population overwhelming public services. In that sense net migration is a useful measure.
Comments
The letter from Mario Tenreiro, of the commission's secretariat general, stated: "It would, of course, be legally possible to renegotiate the situation of the UK and Scotland within the EU. Of course, this would imply a change of the treaties which could only be done by unanimity of all member states."
How could it possibly be otherwise? All sorts of details, such as the level of budget contribution, Schengen, the Euro, the commissioners, number of MEPs etc all would need to be agreed. There's no provision for arranging it any other way.
Of course it is also true that, in practice, our EU friends are not going to do anything disruptive in terms of trade, although Spain is a complicating factor.
It would be interesting if a Scottish departure triggered a formal Lisbon re-negotiation. A useful opportunity, which UKIPers would no doubt want to sabotage by ensuring there was a Labour government in place ready to get absolutely nothing in return as usual.
Remarkably, the coalition has been working quite well in my opinion. Long term, this may be a great advertisement for a change in the electoral system, which will help the Lib Dems.
Perhaps the AV referendum came a GE too early ...
Then again, I would say that given my political leanings, and you might well say otherwise.
"But the significance of that disclosure was quickly undermined after it emerged that Salmond's aides had downloaded the letter from a nationalist website, Newsnet Scotland, and had not been officially sent that opinion by Brussels."
Clearly there are at least four very sticky points:
1) Spain's position: they'd have to make Scotland sweat for internal reasons. They might insist on Scotland having some kind of associate membership for a period.
2) The Euro: Many EU states would not be at all happy at Scotland being able to escape that yoke
3) Schengen: Would probably be used as a bargaining chip
4) The budget and the rebate.
....Stunted Scrofula...
.....and many many others.....
The most hilarious thing about the obsequious Cameroons and PB tories pontificating on how Salmond would be bound to fail at negotiations is that they have to pretend Cammie (the same Cammie who flounced out with his veto debacle) will somehow manage to negotiate Cast Iron Guarantees on all sort of things before his IN/OUT referendum, but they don't have a clue what they are.
They will lose the rebate automatically, I'd be a bit pessimistic on EU claims on anything to do with territorial waters - fishing, oil - where the EU has been pushing steadily it's right to decide and tax, Schengen they'll stay out but have to haggle it, Euro will need to be committed to and therefore Commission right to approve budget, banking supervision will be a risk for Edinburgh's financial sector and opt outs on the social chapter would be hard to retain.
We just say he would have to enter into them.
Which is more than he (or you, or your useful idiots) seem willing to accept...
How much fishing do you think you'll have to give up to buy off the Spanish?
ISON almost certainly has not survived. Pity !
Regarding Schengen, presumably Scotland would be exactly the same as Ireland and stay out of it, because it would require sealing the border with the UK (as otherwise we would effectively be joining Schengen). Personally, I'd happily sign us up to Schengen, and simultaneously remove us from the EU. But I appreciate my view is a minority one.
http://www.sdi.co.uk/sectors/financial-services.aspx
*chortle*
After all, the whole point about 'overseeing of national budgets' is that it is the quid pro quo of Germany agreeing to backstop others' national debts. While Scotland was part of the Sterling-zone that simply would not be an issue.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2012/06/9145/15
My PB Tory chums won't join me in a toast, it's weird
Oh dear. Somehow Farage noticed. I'm sure he won't put that sort of thing on leaflets and campaign on it for the coming EU elections.
If the UK said to the other 27 Scotland should get our rebate, 27 of them would tell them where to go
No list of EU members shows Scotland as a member.
Even Alex Massie knows how pointless the sabre rattling is.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2013/11/scotland-and-the-eu-mariano-rajoy-should-just-jog-on/
Wow!
•Chris Christie (R) 48%
•Hillary Clinton (D) 44%
•Hillary Clinton (D) 48%
•Jeb Bush (R) 44%
•Hillary Clinton (D) 51%
•Rand Paul (R) 43%
•Hillary Clinton (D) 51% (55%)
•Rick Santorum (R) 42% (38%)
•Hillary Clinton (D) 53%
•Ted Cruz (R) 41%
Many pupils in Wales have no idea how to take a maths test, a highly critical report has found.
From May next year, children will sit numerical reasoning tests in an effort to improve numeracy skills.
But the results of pre-testing revealed learners did not understand basic concepts or check their work, copied from each other, gave ridiculous answers or left most questions blank......
The report, which examined the results from sample tests taken in May 2013 by more than 200 children in each school year between 2 and 9
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-25139847
This is yet another example of the result of Labour's dumbing down of education standards and being happy for children to be average of a bad average for political purposes. What a miserable future they have condemned these children to have - unemployed as they will be unemployable - whilst better educated immigrants swoop up the available jobs. The result of a total lack of aspiration for the people of Wales.
http://www.murdermap.co.uk/Investigate.asp
However that doesn't change the *practical* truth that misbehaviour among the political class/celebs etc has a much wider impact than misbehaviour elsewhere and needs to be treated differently.
Labour Press Team@labourpress26s
David Cameron's delay on plain cigarette packaging puts 150,000 kids at risk of addiction via @DailyMirror http://mirr.im/Ijlxzb
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2008/12/15170722
That changes the negotiation dynamic.
Loved anothernick's 15 Things FPT. Classic stuff.
If the posturing looks laughable now you ain't seen nothing yet.
He misrepresented his opponent by selective editing, but that's no more than loads of politicians have been doing since the year dot.
Scotland would go up to around 13 seats, based on other similar sized countries. But the rUK would only go down about 8 seats compared to the UK currently. This is because the allocation of seats is weighted to smaller countries. Thus Scotland plus rUK would have around 5 more seats as UK now.
The problem comes that the number of MEPs is fixed at 751, so some other EU countries will have to lose MEPs in 2019 just because Scotland split up from the UK.
This of course assumes Scotland is a member of the EU in 2019.
Astrononomically (i.e. non-meteorologically), winter starts on December 21st, so they still have over three weeks.
Although I should have noticed that we are actually in the autumn. Perhaps the leaves littering my garden were a sign ...
Sorry. The rest of my post still stands. ;-)