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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » GE2019 has become increasingly about Johnson’s efforts to defl

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    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,197
    Might help with Edgbaston as she was a popular mp there

    Telegraph reporting one of the Tories main problems is getting enough boots on the ground in targets
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    SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    edited November 2019
    nico67 said:

    Horrific front page for Bozo in the DM .

    Yes it’s a leftie paper but Bozo said those words and it’s in print .

    Was it from a couple of years ago?

    I had read it was almost 25 years old and taken out of context from part of a much larger piece but I very much doubt Labour are digging up articles from a quarter of a century ago and taking misleading snippets out.

    They aren't that stupid and desperate surely?
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,289
    edited November 2019

    SNP heading down that dark republican path even further.

    https://twitter.com/peteradamsmith/status/1200181552501710848?s=21


    I thought she was leaving soon, why is she bothered about the monarchy?
    She’s shoring up the loon base.
    You mean the loon base of bigots, flag wavers and xenophobes in Govan? They were always going Tory.
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    SunnyJim said:

    nico67 said:

    Horrific front page for Bozo in the DM .

    Yes it’s a leftie paper but Bozo said those words and it’s in print .

    Was it from a couple of years ago?

    I had read it was almost 25 years old and taken out of context from part of a much larger piece.

    I very much doubt Labour are digging up articles from a quarter of a century ago and taking misleading snippets out.

    They aren't that stupid and desperate surely?
    Is this post supposed to be ironic?

    They do it on Corbyn literally weekly
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    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    Horrific front page for Bozo in the DM .

    Yes it’s a leftie paper but Bozo said those words and it’s in print .

    What are they?
    Daily Mirror has a go as labour panic over their lost northern voters
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    Judging by the Tory campaign this time and last, this 'major speech' will mean story three on the BBB News website for 5 hours, then disappear entirely.
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    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    SunnyJim said:

    nico67 said:

    Horrific front page for Bozo in the DM .

    Yes it’s a leftie paper but Bozo said those words and it’s in print .

    Was it from a couple of years ago?

    I had read it was almost 25 years old and taken out of context from part of a much larger piece.

    I very much doubt Labour are digging up articles from a quarter of a century ago and taking misleading snippets out.

    They aren't that stupid and desperate surely?
    Is this post supposed to be ironic?

    They do it on Corbyn literally weekly
    Diddums. Thing is...Corbyns bile is always in context.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Is this really the Tory campaign, to get disgruntled ex-Labour MPs to endorse the Tories? At the start of the campaign it was useful, now they have to combat the fact Labour are willing to bribe everybody and claim Jezza is just an honest broker as they are still going to do Brexit.
    In an election where a major key to Tory success is to break tribal loyalties, endorsements of ex Labour MPs must be hugely valuable.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    egg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Wasn't on PB earlier but sheet 2 of the candidates list might be useful. It lists the seats and candidates like this:

    Bristol West:
    Suria Aujla (Con)
    Thangam Debbonaire (Lab)
    Carla Denyer (Grn)
    Neil Hipkiss (Brx)

    And so on.

    Certain Labour hold. But that silly poll yesterday had labour holding Bristol north west they are certain to lose
    Vox popping from Bristol north west today found everyone who would talk to camera voting for Boris because they just want brexit sorted out ASAP. Boris has promised to do this, but he really can’t deliver this promise can he?
    No, not without seriously upsetting the ERG wing and opting for BINO.
    But what has won Boris this comfortable majority is the voters just sick of brexit all over the place all the time, they just want it to go away so they don’t have to hear about it. It’s been three years, just get it done so the country can move on. And this is exactly what Boris is promising them. Get brexit done, Cummings ingenious mantra to win this election. But what exactly is brexit done, and how many years away is that at best guesstimate?
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    wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 7,197
    You can still get 20/1 on the Tories in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath. With the SNP candidate disowned and labour in free fall 20/1 is absurdly generous as they got 23% last time
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    SunnyJim said:

    nico67 said:

    Horrific front page for Bozo in the DM .

    Yes it’s a leftie paper but Bozo said those words and it’s in print .

    Was it from a couple of years ago?

    I had read it was almost 25 years old and taken out of context from part of a much larger piece.

    I very much doubt Labour are digging up articles from a quarter of a century ago and taking misleading snippets out.

    They aren't that stupid and desperate surely?
    Is this post supposed to be ironic?

    They do it on Corbyn literally weekly
    The BJorg don't do irony. In fact anyone who trots out 'out of context' as a defence is a stranger to the concept.
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited November 2019
    SunnyJim said:

    nico67 said:

    Horrific front page for Bozo in the DM .

    Yes it’s a leftie paper but Bozo said those words and it’s in print .

    Was it from a couple of years ago?

    I had read it was almost 25 years old and taken out of context from part of a much larger piece but I very much doubt Labour are digging up articles from a quarter of a century ago and taking misleading snippets out.

    They aren't that stupid and desperate surely?
    Out of context ! Okay but the Tories do it all the time and it will just reinforce what many think regarding Bozo .
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    You can still get 20/1 on the Tories in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath. With the SNP candidate disowned and labour in free fall 20/1 is absurdly generous as they got 23% last time

    Yes Kirkcaldy have endorsed the Green candidate, but as ever dyor.
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    camelcamel Posts: 815

    egg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Wasn't on PB earlier but sheet 2 of the candidates list might be useful. It lists the seats and candidates like this:

    Bristol West:
    Suria Aujla (Con)
    Thangam Debbonaire (Lab)
    Carla Denyer (Grn)
    Neil Hipkiss (Brx)

    And so on.

    Certain Labour hold. But that silly poll yesterday had labour holding Bristol north west they are certain to lose
    Vox popping from Bristol north west today found everyone who would talk to camera voting for Boris because they just want brexit sorted out ASAP. Boris has promised to do this, but he really can’t deliver this promise can he?
    No, not without seriously upsetting the ERG wing and opting for BINO.
    I think these people want to see Brexit done in the sense that the possibility of revoke or a 2ref is off the table so their vote can no longer be ignored. After that I doubt whether most of them give a toss what happens.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    alex_ said:

    Is this really the Tory campaign, to get disgruntled ex-Labour MPs to endorse the Tories? At the start of the campaign it was useful, now they have to combat the fact Labour are willing to bribe everybody and claim Jezza is just an honest broker as they are still going to do Brexit.
    In an election where a major key to Tory success is to break tribal loyalties, endorsements of ex Labour MPs must be hugely valuable.
    Really? Does this really play? Gisela more so than hestletine and Gauke?
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,854

    Might help with Edgbaston as she was a popular mp there
    Telegraph reporting one of the Tories main problems is getting enough boots on the ground in targets
    Seems like they are getting Carrie and Dilyn to do all the canvassing in Tory targets; they were with @MarqueeMark in Totnes yesterday, and called on my Mum in Hastings last week...
    Hang on, aren't those seats the Tories won last time?
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    SNP heading down that dark republican path even further.

    https://twitter.com/peteradamsmith/status/1200181552501710848?s=21


    I thought she was leaving soon, why is she bothered about the monarchy?
    She’s shoring up the loon base.
    You mean the loon base of bigots, flag wavers and xenophobes in Govan? They were always going Tory.
    Nicola hates the Queen so much she wants to use a currency with her maj’s face on it during the 10 yr transition to the Euro.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    alex_ said:

    Is this really the Tory campaign, to get disgruntled ex-Labour MPs to endorse the Tories? At the start of the campaign it was useful, now they have to combat the fact Labour are willing to bribe everybody and claim Jezza is just an honest broker as they are still going to do Brexit.
    In an election where a major key to Tory success is to break tribal loyalties, endorsements of ex Labour MPs must be hugely valuable.
    I wouldn't say hugely

    But it keeps that narrative in public eye - Corbyn must not get in.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So far the Conservatives have threatened the independent judiciary, threatened the independent media and vowed to seize and destroy travellers homes.

    And its Labour who are going to install a dictatorship? Interesting.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,488

    I suppose Bozo will say that he is too busy meeting voters, and then spend the day stood in front of his bus in a warehouse with a dozen HYUFD clones forming his claque.

    'Are you Tezzie in disguise?'

    No.

    Boris has a lovely dog.
    No Carrie has a lovely dog
    I quizzed Carrie yesterday on this. The dog is very much both of theirs dog - he doesn't favour one of them over the other. Although Boris is the one who gets up at 6.00am to play with it in the garden.
    I hope the dog gets some attention afterwards.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    Foxy said:

    nico67 said:

    Horrific front page for Bozo in the DM .

    Yes it’s a leftie paper but Bozo said those words and it’s in print .

    What are they?
    Daily Mirror has a go as labour panic over their lost northern voters
    Labour okayish now up north, in the cities, around the polys, and coming back in South Wales. Midlands is the bloodbath that gives Boris 50+ majority for five years.
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    StreeterStreeter Posts: 684
    Brandon Lewis being laughed at by the QT audience over nurse numbers.
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    I suppose Bozo will say that he is too busy meeting voters, and then spend the day stood in front of his bus in a warehouse with a dozen HYUFD clones forming his claque.

    'Are you Tezzie in disguise?'

    BoZo was in North Devon this morning - failing to read his briefing notes and fluffing his lines as per usual.

    https://devonlive.com/news/devon-news/prime-minister-boris-johnson-confused-3588078

    Why was he visiting a defensive seat at this point in the campaign - MM tells us it is all going swimmingly in Devon and Cornwall for the Tories? Or is it an early victory lap?

    He then moved on to Plymouth, with Johnny Mercer claiming he had come to unveil a statue of Nancy Astor (elected 100 years ago today as the first woman MP to take her seat) - actually the honours was done by Theresa May, who looked very relaxed and well in contrast to her disastrous GE2017 visit to the city.

    https://plymouthherald.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/boris-johnson-plymouth-statue-astor-3586303

    Fortunately Luke Pollard (elected in 2017) looks likely to retain Plymouth S & D for Labour (confirmed by YouGov MRP) - thanks to La Widdecombe standing for TBP and splitting the Leave vote.
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    Banterman said:

    Is Johnson still too afraid to be interviewed by Andrew Neil? How can this fat lazy coward think he can be trusted run the country if he can't go head to head with a journalist? He's just afraid of being found out for the over privileged, pig ignorant waste of space that he is. Pathetic.

    You sound a little upset.

    Obviously the Tory media team have played a blinder getting Corbyn minded by Lord Neil, without their man committing to same fate.

    I'll give you a real life comparison. Dentists said to me, you've got a really odd looking piece of minor tooth decay, that may one day become a real issue. We can do a major extraction job, that may damage your sinuses really badly and will take a few months to recover from. Or we do nothing and check it once a year.
    What does the rationale person do?
    "Rationale"? Whatever, you're illiterate, it's fine.
    I am not upset, I am angry. The mark in this little Tory confidence trick isn't Corbyn, it's the public.
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    Trowbridge Lambrok (Wiltshire) result:

    LDEM: 57.8% (+25.6)
    CON: 42.2% (-3.4)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No Labour (-15.4) and Green (-6.8) as prev.
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    egg said:

    alex_ said:

    Is this really the Tory campaign, to get disgruntled ex-Labour MPs to endorse the Tories? At the start of the campaign it was useful, now they have to combat the fact Labour are willing to bribe everybody and claim Jezza is just an honest broker as they are still going to do Brexit.
    In an election where a major key to Tory success is to break tribal loyalties, endorsements of ex Labour MPs must be hugely valuable.
    Really? Does this really play? Gisela more so than hestletine and Gauke?
    Old news, isn't it? She announced this a while back.

    (As did Heseltine and Gauke.)
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,146
    edited November 2019

    SNP heading down that dark republican path even further.

    https://twitter.com/peteradamsmith/status/1200181552501710848?s=21

    The Tories must be doing a dance at CCHQ.
    It will be truly ironic if Boris squeezes a small majority - on the basis of the SCons winning a handful of extra seats....
    But about par for recent years in the crazy stakes.
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    Ed getting some stick from the Express!
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    egg said:

    egg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Wasn't on PB earlier but sheet 2 of the candidates list might be useful. It lists the seats and candidates like this:

    Bristol West:
    Suria Aujla (Con)
    Thangam Debbonaire (Lab)
    Carla Denyer (Grn)
    Neil Hipkiss (Brx)

    And so on.

    Certain Labour hold. But that silly poll yesterday had labour holding Bristol north west they are certain to lose
    Vox popping from Bristol north west today found everyone who would talk to camera voting for Boris because they just want brexit sorted out ASAP. Boris has promised to do this, but he really can’t deliver this promise can he?
    No, not without seriously upsetting the ERG wing and opting for BINO.
    But what has won Boris this comfortable majority is the voters just sick of brexit all over the place all the time, they just want it to go away so they don’t have to hear about it. It’s been three years, just get it done so the country can move on. And this is exactly what Boris is promising them. Get brexit done, Cummings ingenious mantra to win this election. But what exactly is brexit done, and how many years away is that at best guesstimate?
    I think there are actually two bits to it. “Get Brexit done” yes, but in many ways the big attraction is to get a Govt that can actually do things again, and is in control of its own destiny. Whether the decisions that will be taken are good, whether Brexit itself actually happens sooner or later, at least we will be spared the almost daily spectacle of politicians being permanent blockers without offering any achievable alternatives.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,054

    Trowbridge Lambrok (Wiltshire) result:

    LDEM: 57.8% (+25.6)
    CON: 42.2% (-3.4)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No Labour (-15.4) and Green (-6.8) as prev.

    Was a shock it went Con in 2017, but a big gain nonetheless
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Jezbollahs mates don't think the Labour plans are ambitious enough

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/labours-programme-not-enough-redress-effect-austerity


    Spend spend spend baby
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2019
    On Kirkcaldy
    It is just shocking, shocking that a guy who compared trans people to pedophiles turned out to be a wrong 'un.
    Never saw it coming.
    Coincidentally, lots of "Gender Critical" people think Soros is secretly behind the funding of groups campaigning for trans rights.
    Crossover, as they say.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,363
    edited November 2019
    camel said:

    egg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Wasn't on PB earlier but sheet 2 of the candidates list might be useful. It lists the seats and candidates like this:

    Bristol West:
    Suria Aujla (Con)
    Thangam Debbonaire (Lab)
    Carla Denyer (Grn)
    Neil Hipkiss (Brx)

    And so on.

    Certain Labour hold. But that silly poll yesterday had labour holding Bristol north west they are certain to lose
    Vox popping from Bristol north west today found everyone who would talk to camera voting for Boris because they just want brexit sorted out ASAP. Boris has promised to do this, but he really can’t deliver this promise can he?
    No, not without seriously upsetting the ERG wing and opting for BINO.
    I think these people want to see Brexit done in the sense that the possibility of revoke or a 2ref is off the table so their vote can no longer be ignored. After that I doubt whether most of them give a toss what happens.
    Oh they will give a toss when it does, but will blame anyone but themselves for the consequences.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited November 2019
    Streeter said:

    Brandon Lewis being laughed at by the QT audience over nurse numbers.

    Again...Tory and Labour send out the C Team...anybody would think there wasn't an election in two weeks. And nobody from the Lib Dems, they surely couldn't have declined? If they haven't, surely they should be given a seat so close to the GE as a party running 15% in the polls.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    MaxPB said:

    Bozza needs to do the Neil interview.

    Nah, he can send his Dad.
    And that was a lie by a senior C4 representative

    C4 invited Stanley (a noted and early environmentalist) themselves
    Gove and Johnson's dad were turned away from the studio.
    Stanley Johnson had been invited by C4. I don’t know if they turned him away
    The prominent Remainer?
    I think of him as a prominent environmentalist but I think (?) he voted Remain

    He’s a reasonable, albeit slightly cheeky, person to invite to be in the spin room
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,835

    Trowbridge Lambrok (Wiltshire) result:

    LDEM: 57.8% (+25.6)
    CON: 42.2% (-3.4)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No Labour (-15.4) and Green (-6.8) as prev.

    Wessex going Yellow B)
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    SNP heading down that dark republican path even further.

    https://twitter.com/peteradamsmith/status/1200181552501710848?s=21


    I thought she was leaving soon, why is she bothered about the monarchy?
    She’s shoring up the loon base.
    You mean the loon base of bigots, flag wavers and xenophobes in Govan? They were always going Tory.
    Nicola hates the Queen so much she wants to use a currency with her maj’s face on it during the 10 yr transition to the Euro.
    Is it yersel' Harry?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,488
    Mortimer said:

    Electoral edge case question. Any help much appreciated.

    A friend who lives abroad has just messaged me asking a question about her vote that I confess I've never encountered before.

    She lives abroad with a postal vote, but because of concerns about getting her ballot paper on time subsequently registered her mother as her proxy-by-post. The original polling papers have now arrived with said friend, but she wants to know if she can still use these, and instruct her mother not to use the proxy vote - or if she now has to go with the proxy-by-post route?


    That is an odd one.

    A proxy vote can be overridden, in the sense that the owner of the vote can turn up first and then the proxy gets turned away.

    A postal vote can’t be overridden, in the sense that once the ballot paper is posted, they won’t post another.

    My guess is that the mother won’t get a postal paper, because you can only be on one list and they won’t issue two ballot papers for the same elector. Either the postal proxy form came in too late, or they have messed up and not actioned it.
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    "Given his past associations and pronouncements, Corbyn would not even pass security vetting to clean the toilets in MoD Main Building, never mind take charge of the armed forces and intelligence services."

    https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1200013978560352257?s=19
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,854

    I suppose Bozo will say that he is too busy meeting voters, and then spend the day stood in front of his bus in a warehouse with a dozen HYUFD clones forming his claque.

    'Are you Tezzie in disguise?'

    BoZo was in North Devon this morning - failing to read his briefing notes and fluffing his lines as per usual.

    https://devonlive.com/news/devon-news/prime-minister-boris-johnson-confused-3588078

    Why was he visiting a defensive seat at this point in the campaign - MM tells us it is all going swimmingly in Devon and Cornwall for the Tories? Or is it an early victory lap?

    He then moved on to Plymouth, with Johnny Mercer claiming he had come to unveil a statue of Nancy Astor (elected 100 years ago today as the first woman MP to take her seat) - actually the honours was done by Theresa May, who looked very relaxed and well in contrast to her disastrous GE2017 visit to the city.

    https://plymouthherald.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/boris-johnson-plymouth-statue-astor-3586303

    Fortunately Luke Pollard (elected in 2017) looks likely to retain Plymouth S & D for Labour (confirmed by YouGov MRP) - thanks to La Widdecombe standing for TBP and splitting the Leave vote.
    That Devon Live link's not working - probably been taken down by the owners as 'not on message'.
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    Foxy said:

    Trowbridge Lambrok (Wiltshire) result:

    LDEM: 57.8% (+25.6)
    CON: 42.2% (-3.4)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No Labour (-15.4) and Green (-6.8) as prev.

    Wessex going Yellow B)
    If they had just promised a vote on Boris' deal and less of the President Swinson stuff, they would be looking forward to a lot more of those kind of results in two weeks.
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    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited November 2019

    "Given his past associations and pronouncements, Corbyn would not even pass security vetting to clean the toilets in MoD Main Building, never mind take charge of the armed forces and intelligence services."

    https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1200013978560352257?s=19

    Unfortunately despite the moderate veneer of Labour defence policy, the party is lead by Jeremy Corbyn and a small cabal of communists and terrorist sympathisers whose first instinct is to encourage enemies of the UK and blame the US for almost every problem in the world. Corbyn’s track record includes support for the IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah, and other anti-Western extremist groups. He has worked for Iranian state TV and, perhaps most alarmingly, could not bring himself to condemn Russia for the attempted murder of Sergei and Yulia Skripal on British soil.

    ....

    Left wing Trump

    In 2011 Corbyn claimed “NATO was founded in order to promote a cold war with the Soviet Union… is a danger to world security and should be disbanded”.

    And we all know the above, but do the Tories bother to spell this out. Last time they went with all the IRA stuff. What I find weird is the fact they don't play up stuff like his links to Hezbollah and Hamas, the yuff might be relaxed about anti-semitism, but anti LBGTQ stuff is a different matter.
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    I suppose Bozo will say that he is too busy meeting voters, and then spend the day stood in front of his bus in a warehouse with a dozen HYUFD clones forming his claque.

    'Are you Tezzie in disguise?'

    BoZo was in North Devon this morning - failing to read his briefing notes and fluffing his lines as per usual.

    https://devonlive.com/news/devon-news/prime-minister-boris-johnson-confused-3588078

    Why was he visiting a defensive seat at this point in the campaign - MM tells us it is all going swimmingly in Devon and Cornwall for the Tories? Or is it an early victory lap?

    He then moved on to Plymouth, with Johnny Mercer claiming he had come to unveil a statue of Nancy Astor (elected 100 years ago today as the first woman MP to take her seat) - actually the honours was done by Theresa May, who looked very relaxed and well in contrast to her disastrous GE2017 visit to the city.

    https://plymouthherald.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/boris-johnson-plymouth-statue-astor-3586303

    Fortunately Luke Pollard (elected in 2017) looks likely to retain Plymouth S & D for Labour (confirmed by YouGov MRP) - thanks to La Widdecombe standing for TBP and splitting the Leave vote.
    First lady elected to Westminster was Constance de Markievicz in 1918. Though as a Sinn Fein MP, she abstained with her colleagues and they then set up the Dublin Dáil.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,854
    Foxy said:

    Trowbridge Lambrok (Wiltshire) result:

    LDEM: 57.8% (+25.6)
    CON: 42.2% (-3.4)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No Labour (-15.4) and Green (-6.8) as prev.

    Wessex going Yellow B)
    You'd certainly think so based on the posters and boards in people's gardens and windows. I have not seen any that weren't for the LDs.
    Have the other parties given up on roadside boards?
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Floater said:

    Jezbollahs mates don't think the Labour plans are ambitious enough

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/labours-programme-not-enough-redress-effect-austerity


    Spend spend spend baby

    But it’s true. Your acting like their haven’t been tax cuts in the last 10 years. If I put out a manifesto to reverse the tax changes of the last ten years would you not say it’s taking us back to the dark ages of 1970s disaster?
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,575
    IanB2 said:

    I suppose Bozo will say that he is too busy meeting voters, and then spend the day stood in front of his bus in a warehouse with a dozen HYUFD clones forming his claque.

    'Are you Tezzie in disguise?'

    No.

    Boris has a lovely dog.
    No Carrie has a lovely dog
    I quizzed Carrie yesterday on this. The dog is very much both of theirs dog - he doesn't favour one of them over the other. Although Boris is the one who gets up at 6.00am to play with it in the garden.
    I hope the dog gets some attention afterwards.
    :lol:
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    Foxy said:

    Trowbridge Lambrok (Wiltshire) result:

    LDEM: 57.8% (+25.6)
    CON: 42.2% (-3.4)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No Labour (-15.4) and Green (-6.8) as prev.

    Wessex going Yellow B)
    You'd certainly think so based on the posters and boards in people's gardens and windows. I have not seen any that weren't for the LDs.
    Have the other parties given up on roadside boards?
    There's a Labour board down the road from me.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    egg said:

    Floater said:

    Jezbollahs mates don't think the Labour plans are ambitious enough

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/labours-programme-not-enough-redress-effect-austerity


    Spend spend spend baby

    But it’s true. Your acting like their haven’t been tax cuts in the last 10 years. If I put out a manifesto to reverse the tax changes of the last ten years would you not say it’s taking us back to the dark ages of 1970s disaster?
    You think it would be sensible for Labour to tax and borrow even more than their crazy plans already allow for?
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    Feels like this this GE is just another can kick down the road for an awful lot of issues, the Tories are ignoring them and Labour are producing fantasy budgets.
    Oh for some practical people.
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    “He reminds everyone of their favorite grandson,”

    Quote from NYT on Buttigieg.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,146
    edited November 2019

    I suppose Bozo will say that he is too busy meeting voters, and then spend the day stood in front of his bus in a warehouse with a dozen HYUFD clones forming his claque.

    'Are you Tezzie in disguise?'

    BoZo was in North Devon this morning - failing to read his briefing notes and fluffing his lines as per usual.

    https://devonlive.com/news/devon-news/prime-minister-boris-johnson-confused-3588078

    Why was he visiting a defensive seat at this point in the campaign - MM tells us it is all going swimmingly in Devon and Cornwall for the Tories? Or is it an early victory lap?

    He then moved on to Plymouth, with Johnny Mercer claiming he had come to unveil a statue of Nancy Astor (elected 100 years ago today as the first woman MP to take her seat) - actually the honours was done by Theresa May, who looked very relaxed and well in contrast to her disastrous GE2017 visit to the city.

    https://plymouthherald.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/boris-johnson-plymouth-statue-astor-3586303

    Fortunately Luke Pollard (elected in 2017) looks likely to retain Plymouth S & D for Labour (confirmed by YouGov MRP) - thanks to La Widdecombe standing for TBP and splitting the Leave vote.
    There are only three seats the Tories need to worry about in the south-west now: North Devon, North Cornwall and then St. Ives. The MegaPoll had them all staying Conservative. Obvious that Boris would be in at least one of them.
    Plymouth S&D could be a recount job. We'll have to see who the Brexit Party hurts most there. I'm still expecting the Brexit Party vote to collapse on the day. There's only one vote going to deliver Brexit....

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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    Ed getting some stick from the Express!

    My immediate reaction is that the best express can do? Are they running out of steam?
    Why don’t they stick to how labour are going to steal our housekeeping money?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,835

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    The retention stuff is just crap. It is why we have fewer GPs than 5 years ago, despite promises of thousands more.
    https://twitter.com/nickbostock/status/1200002652534390784?s=19
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Foxy said:

    Trowbridge Lambrok (Wiltshire) result:

    LDEM: 57.8% (+25.6)
    CON: 42.2% (-3.4)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No Labour (-15.4) and Green (-6.8) as prev.

    Wessex going Yellow B)
    You'd certainly think so based on the posters and boards in people's gardens and windows. I have not seen any that weren't for the LDs.
    Have the other parties given up on roadside boards?
    Tories probably don't want their properties vandalised in this era of kinder gentler politics
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    Floater said:

    Jezbollahs mates don't think the Labour plans are ambitious enough

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/labours-programme-not-enough-redress-effect-austerity


    Spend spend spend baby

    Just shows what a sensible, Third Way compromise Labour's manifesto is
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    DerekTrotterDerekTrotter Posts: 21
    edited November 2019
    https://twitter.com/mailsport/status/1200183851018010635?s=21

    Why did the PL think an ex Guardian CEO was a good idea ?
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    SNP heading down that dark republican path even further.

    https://twitter.com/peteradamsmith/status/1200181552501710848?s=21

    The Tories must be doing a dance at CCHQ.
    It will be truly ironic if Boris squeezes a small majority - on the basis of the SCons winning a handful of extra seats....
    But about par for recent years in the crazy stakes.
    They haven’t fallen away without roof and with Boris. Tories are polling amazingly well up there these days. May be net two down at worse, and those ten seats will be massive bonus.
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    Floater said:

    egg said:

    Floater said:

    Jezbollahs mates don't think the Labour plans are ambitious enough

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/labours-programme-not-enough-redress-effect-austerity


    Spend spend spend baby

    But it’s true. Your acting like their haven’t been tax cuts in the last 10 years. If I put out a manifesto to reverse the tax changes of the last ten years would you not say it’s taking us back to the dark ages of 1970s disaster?
    You think it would be sensible for Labour to tax and borrow even more than their crazy plans already allow for?
    There is a structured and planned way for Labour to ramp up spending over time, but due to their own rhetoric they cannot do that as it would make them complicit in evil Tory austerity. So they have to go big straight away.
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    I would suspect that some document was produced somewhere that stated something a long the lines of: “incorporating current projections of turnover, the NHS will need to train and recruit 50,000 nurses over the next few years”. Obviously if retention measures are improved then the number of new recruits would be lower. It’s literally the same thing. But somewhere the message got garbled and/or simplified and they ended up looking like they had created a smokescreen.

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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    edited November 2019
    I feel strangely positive tonight, been on the Guardian website and after reading the comments I was surprised to find so much criticism for Labour from their own kind. 2 years ago it was a wall to wall Corbynista Echo chamber. It does seem like not many Lib Dems or moderate Labour supporters think Corbyn can deprive the Tories of a majority.

    The tightening of the polls makes it feel like 2017 but this time the enthusiasm levels from those opposing the government appear rather diminished.
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    Foxy said:

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    The retention stuff is just crap. It is why we have fewer GPs than 5 years ago, despite promises of thousands more.
    https://twitter.com/nickbostock/status/1200002652534390784?s=19
    And why are they leaving? Because of extreme stress, budget pressures and pensions.
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    Foxy said:

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    The retention stuff is just crap. It is why we have fewer GPs than 5 years ago, despite promises of thousands more.
    https://twitter.com/nickbostock/status/1200002652534390784?s=19
    And why are they leaving? Because of extreme stress, budget pressures and pensions.
    Because the Tories don't give a fuck basically, I don't know how anyone could conclude differently
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    eekeek Posts: 25,028
    Foxy said:

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    The retention stuff is just crap. It is why we have fewer GPs than 5 years ago, despite promises of thousands more.
    https://twitter.com/nickbostock/status/1200002652534390784?s=19
    40,800 nurse vacancies on the news at the moment.
    Rising to 70,000 by 2023/24.
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    KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,850
    edited November 2019

    "Given his past associations and pronouncements, Corbyn would not even pass security vetting to clean the toilets in MoD Main Building, never mind take charge of the armed forces and intelligence services."

    https://twitter.com/NavyLookout/status/1200013978560352257?s=19

    Unfortunately despite the moderate veneer of Labour defence policy, the party is lead by Jeremy Corbyn and a small cabal of communists and terrorist sympathisers whose first instinct is to encourage enemies of the UK and blame the US for almost every problem in the world. Corbyn’s track record includes support for the IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah, and other anti-Western extremist groups. He has worked for Iranian state TV and, perhaps most alarmingly, could not bring himself to condemn Russia for the attempted murder of Sergei and Yulia Skripal on British soil.

    ....

    Left wing Trump

    In 2011 Corbyn claimed “NATO was founded in order to promote a cold war with the Soviet Union… is a danger to world security and should be disbanded”.

    And we all know the above, but do the Tories bother to spell this out. Last time they went with all the IRA stuff. What I find weird is the fact they don't play up stuff like his links to Hezbollah and Hamas, the yuff might be relaxed about anti-semitism, but anti LBGTQ stuff is a different matter.
    A tremendously clear and concise piece that, with beautifully understated eviscerations of Swinson ("patronising") and the Greens (who apparently would replace the MOD with a Ministry of Peace and wind the armed forces down to a "carbon neutral defence force" whose members would be allowed to disobey orders).
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    HaroldO said:

    Floater said:

    egg said:

    Floater said:

    Jezbollahs mates don't think the Labour plans are ambitious enough

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/labours-programme-not-enough-redress-effect-austerity


    Spend spend spend baby

    But it’s true. Your acting like their haven’t been tax cuts in the last 10 years. If I put out a manifesto to reverse the tax changes of the last ten years would you not say it’s taking us back to the dark ages of 1970s disaster?
    You think it would be sensible for Labour to tax and borrow even more than their crazy plans already allow for?
    There is a structured and planned way for Labour to ramp up spending over time, but due to their own rhetoric they cannot do that as it would make them complicit in evil Tory austerity. So they have to go big straight away.
    HaroldO said:

    Floater said:

    egg said:

    Floater said:

    Jezbollahs mates don't think the Labour plans are ambitious enough

    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/e/labours-programme-not-enough-redress-effect-austerity


    Spend spend spend baby

    But it’s true. Your acting like their haven’t been tax cuts in the last 10 years. If I put out a manifesto to reverse the tax changes of the last ten years would you not say it’s taking us back to the dark ages of 1970s disaster?
    You think it would be sensible for Labour to tax and borrow even more than their crazy plans already allow for?
    There is a structured and planned way for Labour to ramp up spending over time, but due to their own rhetoric they cannot do that as it would make them complicit in evil Tory austerity. So they have to go big straight away.
    You really think that works?
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,854
    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    Trowbridge Lambrok (Wiltshire) result:

    LDEM: 57.8% (+25.6)
    CON: 42.2% (-3.4)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No Labour (-15.4) and Green (-6.8) as prev.

    Wessex going Yellow B)
    You'd certainly think so based on the posters and boards in people's gardens and windows. I have not seen any that weren't for the LDs.
    Have the other parties given up on roadside boards?
    Tories probably don't want their properties vandalised in this era of kinder gentler politics
    Vandalism's not really a thing round here, which is nice.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    I suppose Bozo will say that he is too busy meeting voters, and then spend the day stood in front of his bus in a warehouse with a dozen HYUFD clones forming his claque.

    'Are you Tezzie in disguise?'

    BoZo was in North Devon this morning - failing to read his briefing notes and fluffing his lines as per usual.

    https://devonlive.com/news/devon-news/prime-minister-boris-johnson-confused-3588078

    Why was he visiting a defensive seat at this point in the campaign - MM tells us it is all going swimmingly in Devon and Cornwall for the Tories? Or is it an early victory lap?

    He then moved on to Plymouth, with Johnny Mercer claiming he had come to unveil a statue of Nancy Astor (elected 100 years ago today as the first woman MP to take her seat) - actually the honours was done by Theresa May, who looked very relaxed and well in contrast to her disastrous GE2017 visit to the city.

    https://plymouthherald.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/boris-johnson-plymouth-statue-astor-3586303

    Fortunately Luke Pollard (elected in 2017) looks likely to retain Plymouth S & D for Labour (confirmed by YouGov MRP) - thanks to La Widdecombe standing for TBP and splitting the Leave vote.
    There are only three seats the Tories need to worry about in the south-west now: North Devon, North Cornwall and then St. Ives. The MegaPoll had them all staying Conservative. Obvious that Boris would be in at least one of them.
    Plymouth S&D could be a recount job. We'll have to see who the Brexit Party hurts most there. I'm still expecting the Brexit Party vote to collapse on the day. There's only one vote going to deliver Brexit....

    When you say worry, you mean despite megapoll you will lose some of them?
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    Is it the £350m all over again? People dispute how many nurses but spread the word and make it stick in everyone’s minds that the Tories are adding tens of thousands more nurses. Deliberate? Who knows?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,835
    edited November 2019

    Foxy said:

    Trowbridge Lambrok (Wiltshire) result:

    LDEM: 57.8% (+25.6)
    CON: 42.2% (-3.4)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No Labour (-15.4) and Green (-6.8) as prev.

    Wessex going Yellow B)
    You'd certainly think so based on the posters and boards in people's gardens and windows. I have not seen any that weren't for the LDs.
    Have the other parties given up on roadside boards?
    There's a Labour board down the road from me.
    I have counted 8 boards; 7* LD in Harborough, 1 Lab in Leicester South. No blue ones to be seen.
    * 1 on a farm near Kibworth. Normally deep blue there...
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,575

    egg said:

    The Tories are looking like a bunch of headless chickens at present. The irony is that the government's record on environmental issues isn't too bad, so Boris could have reeled off a few achievements, declared there's more to do and got off relatively unscathed. The Tories let their hatred of Jon Snow and CH4 cloud their judgement.

    It would have been an ambush though. The left will not accept any environmental improvements put forward by conservatives. Their environmentalism and leftism are inextricably linked.

    Think of the miliband debates in 2015. When it was really everyone saying how shit Ed is.
    EICIPM :lol:
    I was thinking earlier, show me an election poster today with EdM in Nicola’s pocket and you’ve sold it to me. I’d vote for that. Dream set up for U.K.
    Poor Ed Miliband. As much as I found him a bit of a wet fish I really wish he had won 2015. We would be in a much different place now.
    Yes, we'd have an NHS with time to care.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,146
    edited November 2019

    Foxy said:

    Trowbridge Lambrok (Wiltshire) result:

    LDEM: 57.8% (+25.6)
    CON: 42.2% (-3.4)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No Labour (-15.4) and Green (-6.8) as prev.

    Wessex going Yellow B)
    You'd certainly think so based on the posters and boards in people's gardens and windows. I have not seen any that weren't for the LDs.
    Have the other parties given up on roadside boards?
    Nah - it's just the LibDems are very efficient at ripping down other party's posters.
    We are currently waiting for the LibDems to play the card of taking a pile of ripped down posters and leaving them at the home of their opponent, where they get "found" by a tipped-off journo.
    They are going to find it fun though when the tables get turned - we have security cameras trained on our poster sites.
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    Brom said:

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    Is it the £350m all over again? People dispute how many nurses but spread the word and make it stick in everyone’s minds that the Tories are adding tens of thousands more nurses. Deliberate? Who knows?
    I don't recall the £350m falling apart quite as quickly though? It seemed to go on a lot longer - and I don't really recall the media coming down on it that strongly if I'm honest. I remember that interview on the bus where they treated it like a joke.

    I think now people really do not trust this Government - and that is why Labour has (quite intelligently I might say) planted doubts about the NHS in the minds of people regarding a trade deal.

    To be honest, whether the Tories do or don't want to sell of the NHS, I think people are utterly deluded if they think we'll walk away from a USA trade deal because we value the NHS too much. We're going to be begging the USA for one - and they know that all too well. That's what those documents really showed.
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    More Lib Dem boards in Hants today, quite remarkable
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,575

    egg said:

    The Tories are looking like a bunch of headless chickens at present. The irony is that the government's record on environmental issues isn't too bad, so Boris could have reeled off a few achievements, declared there's more to do and got off relatively unscathed. The Tories let their hatred of Jon Snow and CH4 cloud their judgement.

    It would have been an ambush though. The left will not accept any environmental improvements put forward by conservatives. Their environmentalism and leftism are inextricably linked.

    Think of the miliband debates in 2015. When it was really everyone saying how shit Ed is.
    EICIPM :lol:
    I was thinking earlier, show me an election poster today with EdM in Nicola’s pocket and you’ve sold it to me. I’d vote for that. Dream set up for U.K.
    Poor Ed Miliband. As much as I found him a bit of a wet fish I really wish he had won 2015. We would be in a much different place now.
    Yes, we'd have an NHS with time to care.
    Not to mention controls on immigration.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,854
    edited November 2019
    Brom said:

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    Is it the £350m all over again? People dispute how many nurses but spread the word and make it stick in everyone’s minds that the Tories are adding tens of thousands more nurses. Deliberate? Who knows?
    I honestly don't think anyone* believes the Tories' promises on nurses.
    Everyone's heard it all before but the perception is that staffing levels in the NHS just get worse.
    Edit: *Apart from @camel's family as per the next post!
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    camelcamel Posts: 815
    Brom said:

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    Is it the £350m all over again? People dispute how many nurses but spread the word and make it stick in everyone’s minds that the Tories are adding tens of thousands more nurses. Deliberate? Who knows?
    I was discussing politics with family and all were certain that the tories would be recruiting 30k new nurses and how stupid it was that they added 20k retained to this total. Good Morning Britain had been running this.
    So the message has got through that the tories are recruiting 30k nurses. Which is good news when you are better known for austerity and privatisation.
    The shrewdly lucky clown wins again.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,146
    egg said:

    I suppose Bozo will say that he is too busy meeting voters, and then spend the day stood in front of his bus in a warehouse with a dozen HYUFD clones forming his claque.

    'Are you Tezzie in disguise?'

    BoZo was in North Devon this morning - failing to read his briefing notes and fluffing his lines as per usual.

    https://devonlive.com/news/devon-news/prime-minister-boris-johnson-confused-3588078

    Why was he visiting a defensive seat at this point in the campaign - MM tells us it is all going swimmingly in Devon and Cornwall for the Tories? Or is it an early victory lap?

    He then moved on to Plymouth, with Johnny Mercer claiming he had come to unveil a statue of Nancy Astor (elected 100 years ago today as the first woman MP to take her seat) - actually the honours was done by Theresa May, who looked very relaxed and well in contrast to her disastrous GE2017 visit to the city.

    https://plymouthherald.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/boris-johnson-plymouth-statue-astor-3586303

    Fortunately Luke Pollard (elected in 2017) looks likely to retain Plymouth S & D for Labour (confirmed by YouGov MRP) - thanks to La Widdecombe standing for TBP and splitting the Leave vote.
    There are only three seats the Tories need to worry about in the south-west now: North Devon, North Cornwall and then St. Ives. The MegaPoll had them all staying Conservative. Obvious that Boris would be in at least one of them.
    Plymouth S&D could be a recount job. We'll have to see who the Brexit Party hurts most there. I'm still expecting the Brexit Party vote to collapse on the day. There's only one vote going to deliver Brexit....

    When you say worry, you mean despite megapoll you will lose some of them?
    I mean assume they are still in play - and fight incrediblly hard for every vote there. That is how you keep them.
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    egg said:

    SNP heading down that dark republican path even further.

    https://twitter.com/peteradamsmith/status/1200181552501710848?s=21

    The Tories must be doing a dance at CCHQ.
    It will be truly ironic if Boris squeezes a small majority - on the basis of the SCons winning a handful of extra seats....
    But about par for recent years in the crazy stakes.
    They haven’t fallen away without roof and with Boris. Tories are polling amazingly well up there these days. May be net two down at worse, and those ten seats will be massive bonus.
    It should be remembered that, remarkably, Scotland kept Theresa May in power.

    Could we see Scotland handing the Tories a majority government this time?
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    https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-conservative-plan-for-no-notice-school-inspections-criticised-by-tecahing-unions-11873002

    The Tories just consistently miss the point on everything. Schools aren't bad because of inspections, they're bad because our education policy is an absolute disaster.
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    Is MRP not being updated daily then?
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    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-conservative-plan-for-no-notice-school-inspections-criticised-by-tecahing-unions-11873002

    The Tories just consistently miss the point on everything. Schools aren't bad because of inspections, they're bad because our education policy is an absolute disaster.

    Unions criticise their members being held to account shocker.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,005
    The only reason we are having an election is the Brexit stalemate. GE2017 was a fraud as most MPs sought votes on the lie that they were going to respect the referendum result. Boris just wants to get enough Tory MPs in the HofC to see his deal pass, so other policies don’t really matter.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,854

    Is MRP not being updated daily then?

    Not tonight Josephine.
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    eggegg Posts: 1,749

    Brom said:

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    Is it the £350m all over again? People dispute how many nurses but spread the word and make it stick in everyone’s minds that the Tories are adding tens of thousands more nurses. Deliberate? Who knows?
    I don't recall the £350m falling apart quite as quickly though? It seemed to go on a lot longer - and I don't really recall the media coming down on it that strongly if I'm honest. I remember that interview on the bus where they treated it like a joke.

    I think now people really do not trust this Government - and that is why Labour has (quite intelligently I might say) planted doubts about the NHS in the minds of people regarding a trade deal.

    To be honest, whether the Tories do or don't want to sell of the NHS, I think people are utterly deluded if they think we'll walk away from a USA trade deal because we value the NHS too much. We're going to be begging the USA for one - and they know that all too well. That's what those documents really showed.
    I agree. The denials sound genuine, but it’s the no trade deal with US without at least some compromise bit of this that trashes the denials.

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    https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-conservative-plan-for-no-notice-school-inspections-criticised-by-tecahing-unions-11873002

    The Tories just consistently miss the point on everything. Schools aren't bad because of inspections, they're bad because our education policy is an absolute disaster.

    Unions criticise their members being held to account shocker.
    That wasn't my point, my point is this isn't going to make schools any better
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,741
    edited November 2019

    SNP heading down that dark republican path even further.

    https://twitter.com/peteradamsmith/status/1200181552501710848?s=21


    I thought she was leaving soon, why is she bothered about the monarchy?
    Monarchy of Scoortland.

    or she's looking for a retirement job where being not very useful does not get noticed.
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Brom said:

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    Is it the £350m all over again? People dispute how many nurses but spread the word and make it stick in everyone’s minds that the Tories are adding tens of thousands more nurses. Deliberate? Who knows?
    No because what they see is the Tories trying to hoodwink the public over the NHS , the pledge is falling apart . The Labour manifesto might be a wishlist on many things but their NHS plans haven’t been trashed .

    The EU ref was different and the NHS up for sale wasn’t the issue then . By trying to deceive over nurse numbers the public might start questioning whether they can believe anything the Tories say on any USA trade deal .


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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,741
    The page seems to have vanished.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Trowbridge Lambrok (Wiltshire) result:

    LDEM: 57.8% (+25.6)
    CON: 42.2% (-3.4)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No Labour (-15.4) and Green (-6.8) as prev.

    Wessex going Yellow B)
    You'd certainly think so based on the posters and boards in people's gardens and windows. I have not seen any that weren't for the LDs.
    Have the other parties given up on roadside boards?
    There's a Labour board down the road from me.
    I have counted 8 boards; 7* LD in Harborough, 1 Lab in Leicester South. No blue ones to be seen.
    * 1 on a farm near Kibworth. Normally deep blue there...
    Are these boards sheep substitutes?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,146
    camel said:

    Brom said:

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    Is it the £350m all over again? People dispute how many nurses but spread the word and make it stick in everyone’s minds that the Tories are adding tens of thousands more nurses. Deliberate? Who knows?
    I was discussing politics with family and all were certain that the tories would be recruiting 30k new nurses and how stupid it was that they added 20k retained to this total. Good Morning Britain had been running this.
    So the message has got through that the tories are recruiting 30k nurses. Which is good news when you are better known for austerity and privatisation.
    The shrewdly lucky clown wins again.
    Classic Cummings Play-book. Let's have a news cycle or two arguing over how many "new" nurses we are providing to the NHS. Let our opponents all make the case that the Conservatives are recruiting more nurses.
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    sladeslade Posts: 1,940
    LD hold in North Norfolk
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,854
    edited November 2019
    egg said:

    Brom said:

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    Is it the £350m all over again? People dispute how many nurses but spread the word and make it stick in everyone’s minds that the Tories are adding tens of thousands more nurses. Deliberate? Who knows?
    I don't recall the £350m falling apart quite as quickly though? It seemed to go on a lot longer - and I don't really recall the media coming down on it that strongly if I'm honest. I remember that interview on the bus where they treated it like a joke.

    I think now people really do not trust this Government - and that is why Labour has (quite intelligently I might say) planted doubts about the NHS in the minds of people regarding a trade deal.

    To be honest, whether the Tories do or don't want to sell of the NHS, I think people are utterly deluded if they think we'll walk away from a USA trade deal because we value the NHS too much. We're going to be begging the USA for one - and they know that all too well. That's what those documents really showed.
    I agree. The denials sound genuine, but it’s the no trade deal with US without at least some compromise bit of this that trashes the denials.
    It'll be ok to walk away from an EU trade deal if they have the temerity to insist on us adhering to single market rules but we need a US trade deal so badly we'll sacrifice the NHS is necessary.
    Sounds about right for the Tories.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,835

    Foxy said:

    This nurses thing seems like such an own goal.

    Why did they not go with 20,000 more nurses? It would have been true and they wouldn't have lost the confidence of the public

    The retention stuff is just crap. It is why we have fewer GPs than 5 years ago, despite promises of thousands more.
    https://twitter.com/nickbostock/status/1200002652534390784?s=19
    And why are they leaving? Because of extreme stress, budget pressures and pensions.
    A mixture of reasons, and also a cohort effect. There are a lot of GPs approaching 60 and retiring in the next five years.
    I see no reason to see retention to suddenly improve. Indeed the retention rate is worse than it was 5 years ago.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,854
    MattW said:

    The page seems to have vanished.
    Yes, I noticed that. I assumed for 'legal reasons'.
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