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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB and the LDs slipping on the Commons seats spread markets –

24

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  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    RobD said:

    nico67 said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nico67 said:

    The ICM is pretty good for Labour given some of the other polling .

    When 10 down is a good poll for a party that has been in opposition for almost ten years...
    Well compared to the 17 point lead in the YouGov poll Labour will happily take the ICM poll .

    I think we need to see the fieldwork dates . Have they changed their methodology to reflect the BP standing down in over 350 seats .
    Fieldwork 15-18th Nov, and they account for BXP not standing.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-election-poll-icm/uk-pm-johnsons-conservatives-extend-lead-over-labour-icm-poll-idUSKBN1XS22L
    Thanks for that Rob . Given the weekend polling there will be huge relief in Labour . 10 points isn’t insurmountable , I’ll be interested in seeing their turnout figures .
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited November 2019
    A thought. At what point does that fact everyone is saying “Corbyn has nothing to lose and can only win from the debate” mean he does, in fact, have something to lose and can underperform?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    edited November 2019
    Arthur said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    The same as Cambridge University? But it's hard to see how Labour wins any votes with this, and easy to see how they lose some.
    Boris will take the piss by saying that a Conservative Govt. will apologise to the Neanderthals for Homo sapiens making them extinct.

    I mean, if you want to go back.

    (He's real sorry about the passing of the dinosaurs too, but that really was an act of God, nothing to do with man that time.)
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Soo, what polls to come …….. Kantar?

    Not had an Ipsos or ORB for a while, but those aren't so regular.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Yes.
    It won't be long before the Labour party is actively investigating the legacy of Corbyn.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    nico67 said:

    RobD said:

    nico67 said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nico67 said:

    The ICM is pretty good for Labour given some of the other polling .

    When 10 down is a good poll for a party that has been in opposition for almost ten years...
    Well compared to the 17 point lead in the YouGov poll Labour will happily take the ICM poll .

    I think we need to see the fieldwork dates . Have they changed their methodology to reflect the BP standing down in over 350 seats .
    Fieldwork 15-18th Nov, and they account for BXP not standing.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-election-poll-icm/uk-pm-johnsons-conservatives-extend-lead-over-labour-icm-poll-idUSKBN1XS22L
    Thanks for that Rob . Given the weekend polling there will be huge relief in Labour . 10 points isn’t insurmountable , I’ll be interested in seeing their turnout figures .
    Direction of travel still the wrong way for Labour....Tories still disappearing further over the horizon with ICM.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    I thought the idea that "the Muslim vote" is a key firewall for Labour to be a rather racist and not really practical stereotype.

    Muslims make up fewer than 5% of the population.
    It’s not racist , I’m merely pointing out how that demographic is key for Labour in certain seats . The 5% isn’t evenly spread and that’s why it does impact some Labour marginals.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 931
    Will there be an Appeal tomorrow re the High Court decision.
  • https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Yes.
    It won't be long before the Labour party is actively investigating the legacy of Corbyn.
    The leaks are making it look like they were having a competition to top 'the longest suicide note in history'.

    Still, at least all this will provide future Politics PhD candidates with something to write about.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    theakes said:

    Will there be an Appeal tomorrow re the High Court decision.

    How much money do the SNP and LDs want to throw away?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    nico67 said:

    RobD said:

    nico67 said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nico67 said:

    The ICM is pretty good for Labour given some of the other polling .

    When 10 down is a good poll for a party that has been in opposition for almost ten years...
    Well compared to the 17 point lead in the YouGov poll Labour will happily take the ICM poll .

    I think we need to see the fieldwork dates . Have they changed their methodology to reflect the BP standing down in over 350 seats .
    Fieldwork 15-18th Nov, and they account for BXP not standing.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-election-poll-icm/uk-pm-johnsons-conservatives-extend-lead-over-labour-icm-poll-idUSKBN1XS22L
    Thanks for that Rob . Given the weekend polling there will be huge relief in Labour . 10 points isn’t insurmountable , I’ll be interested in seeing their turnout figures .
    Direction of travel still the wrong way for Labour....Tories still disappearing further over the horizon with ICM.
    True but not too much more juice to squeeze from the BXP. Still plenty of juice in that lib dem score tho'
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614

    nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    I thought the idea that "the Muslim vote" is a key firewall for Labour to be a rather racist and not really practical stereotype.

    Muslims make up fewer than 5% of the population.
    But it's not 5% in every seat....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    nico67 said:

    RobD said:

    nico67 said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nico67 said:

    The ICM is pretty good for Labour given some of the other polling .

    When 10 down is a good poll for a party that has been in opposition for almost ten years...
    Well compared to the 17 point lead in the YouGov poll Labour will happily take the ICM poll .

    I think we need to see the fieldwork dates . Have they changed their methodology to reflect the BP standing down in over 350 seats .
    Fieldwork 15-18th Nov, and they account for BXP not standing.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-election-poll-icm/uk-pm-johnsons-conservatives-extend-lead-over-labour-icm-poll-idUSKBN1XS22L
    Thanks for that Rob . Given the weekend polling there will be huge relief in Labour . 10 points isn’t insurmountable , I’ll be interested in seeing their turnout figures .
    Direction of travel still the wrong way for Labour....Tories still disappearing further over the horizon with ICM.
    True but not too much more juice to squeeze from the BXP. Still plenty of juice in that lib dem score tho'
    Yep. I predict PB Tories 4 Swinson will soon be a thing. :)
  • Arthur said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    The same as Cambridge University? But it's hard to see how Labour wins any votes with this, and easy to see how they lose some.
    Boris will take the piss by saying that a Conservative Govt. will apologise to the Neanderthals for Homo sapiens making them extinct.

    I mean, if you want to go back.

    (He's real sorry about the passing of the dinosaurs too, but that really was an act of God, nothing to do with man that time.)
    I think Boris would be well advised to steer clear of comparing former colonial subjects to neanderthals. His likening of gay marriage to bestiality still haunts him.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    BMG poll on EU ref .

    Remain 54

    Leave 46

    It’s likely that given all the polling over the last 18 months that there’s a bigger pool of Remainers out there , could complicate things for the Tories if we see bigger turnouts in that group .
  • nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    I thought the idea that "the Muslim vote" is a key firewall for Labour to be a rather racist and not really practical stereotype.

    Muslims make up fewer than 5% of the population.
    It’s not racist , I’m merely pointing out how that demographic is key for Labour in certain seats . The 5% isn’t evenly spread and that’s why it does impact some Labour marginals.
    My apologies if you thought I was calling you racist, I wasn't. That line is often used by critics of Labour/Muslims and I find it unpleasant - I'd far rather view Muslims as individuals just as anyone else than be lumped together as one stereotype.

    I just find it somewhat disturbing to consider any group like that homogenous. I hope we never hear a party speak about their "white voter firewall" in this country for instance.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614

    nico67 said:

    RobD said:

    nico67 said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nico67 said:

    The ICM is pretty good for Labour given some of the other polling .

    When 10 down is a good poll for a party that has been in opposition for almost ten years...
    Well compared to the 17 point lead in the YouGov poll Labour will happily take the ICM poll .

    I think we need to see the fieldwork dates . Have they changed their methodology to reflect the BP standing down in over 350 seats .
    Fieldwork 15-18th Nov, and they account for BXP not standing.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-election-poll-icm/uk-pm-johnsons-conservatives-extend-lead-over-labour-icm-poll-idUSKBN1XS22L
    Thanks for that Rob . Given the weekend polling there will be huge relief in Labour . 10 points isn’t insurmountable , I’ll be interested in seeing their turnout figures .
    Direction of travel still the wrong way for Labour....Tories still disappearing further over the horizon with ICM.
    True but not too much more juice to squeeze from the BXP. Still plenty of juice in that lib dem score tho'
    Not as much as you think. There's plenty in that 13% will NEVER vote tactically for an anti-semite Marxist. If you don't believe my doorstep stories, ask OGH.....
  • nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    I thought the idea that "the Muslim vote" is a key firewall for Labour to be a rather racist and not really practical stereotype.

    Muslims make up fewer than 5% of the population.
    But it's not 5% in every seat....
    How many marginals will this be a significant factor in?
  • nico67 said:

    RobD said:

    nico67 said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nico67 said:

    The ICM is pretty good for Labour given some of the other polling .

    When 10 down is a good poll for a party that has been in opposition for almost ten years...
    Well compared to the 17 point lead in the YouGov poll Labour will happily take the ICM poll .

    I think we need to see the fieldwork dates . Have they changed their methodology to reflect the BP standing down in over 350 seats .
    Fieldwork 15-18th Nov, and they account for BXP not standing.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-election-poll-icm/uk-pm-johnsons-conservatives-extend-lead-over-labour-icm-poll-idUSKBN1XS22L
    Thanks for that Rob . Given the weekend polling there will be huge relief in Labour . 10 points isn’t insurmountable , I’ll be interested in seeing their turnout figures .
    Direction of travel still the wrong way for Labour....Tories still disappearing further over the horizon with ICM.
    True but not too much more juice to squeeze from the BXP. Still plenty of juice in that lib dem score tho'
    Not as much as you think. There's plenty in that 13% will NEVER vote tactically for an anti-semite Marxist. If you don't believe my doorstep stories, ask OGH.....
    Indeed and the Lib Dems, even under Swinson, will have a much higher floor than the BXP.
  • Arthur said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    The same as Cambridge University? But it's hard to see how Labour wins any votes with this, and easy to see how they lose some.
    Boris will take the piss by saying that a Conservative Govt. will apologise to the Neanderthals for Homo sapiens making them extinct.

    I mean, if you want to go back.

    (He's real sorry about the passing of the dinosaurs too, but that really was an act of God, nothing to do with man that time.)
    I think Boris would be well advised to steer clear of comparing former colonial subjects to neanderthals. His likening of gay marriage to bestiality still haunts him.
    Agreed if the subject comes up he'd be better off saying something about looking to the future rather than the past and moving on. As would Corbyn if he was smarter.
  • Alistair said:
    Probably made Nick Clegg's bank account much stronger. You think if he'd remained in the opposition he'd be getting such a salary from Facebook now?
  • By all accounts Prince Andrew has treated people unpleasantly on the way up. I wonder what will now happen on the way down?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited November 2019
    Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    I thought the idea that "the Muslim vote" is a key firewall for Labour to be a rather racist and not really practical stereotype.

    Muslims make up fewer than 5% of the population.
    It’s not racist , I’m merely pointing out how that demographic is key for Labour in certain seats . The 5% isn’t evenly spread and that’s why it does impact some Labour marginals.
    My apologies if you thought I was calling you racist, I wasn't. That line is often used by critics of Labour/Muslims and I find it unpleasant - I'd far rather view Muslims as individuals just as anyone else than be lumped together as one stereotype.

    I just find it somewhat disturbing to consider any group like that homogenous. I hope we never hear a party speak about their "white voter firewall" in this country for instance.
    No worries . But each party does have its demographic strong points and weak points . It’s important of course as you said to not view this as one homogeneous group . Generally though we know that certain demographics play better for certain parties .
  • A thought. At what point does that fact everyone is saying “Corbyn has nothing to lose and can only win from the debate” mean he does, in fact, have something to lose and can underperform?

    I don't think he has anything to lose. He could have a total wibble-fest and the Maomentumers will still back him, he does have the chance to try and pick up more Remain / soft leave voters if he does ok.

    Boris on the other hand can only pitch to Leavers and he is never any good at debates.
  • It's started.

    twitter.com/EamonnONeill/status/1196474398666035200?s=20

    twitter.com/MrMalky/status/1196476167622217728?s=20

    How could any business have him as a spokesperson after that interview. It would be commercial suicide.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited November 2019

    Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
    I think that is a fair point, but the Labour trend line has also flat-lined and that is with the Lib Dems being totally invisible. Now Labour might be able to pick up more remainers and the Lib Dem never figure, or the Lib Dem might get some air time and use it.

    As I have said repeatedly, I think the thing the Tories should worry about is 42%+ is historically way more than they ever get and it is currently predicated on winning the working class. That is far from a given.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    nico67 said:

    RobD said:

    nico67 said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nico67 said:

    The ICM is pretty good for Labour given some of the other polling .

    When 10 down is a good poll for a party that has been in opposition for almost ten years...
    Well compared to the 17 point lead in the YouGov poll Labour will happily take the ICM poll .

    I think we need to see the fieldwork dates . Have they changed their methodology to reflect the BP standing down in over 350 seats .
    Fieldwork 15-18th Nov, and they account for BXP not standing.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-election-poll-icm/uk-pm-johnsons-conservatives-extend-lead-over-labour-icm-poll-idUSKBN1XS22L
    Thanks for that Rob . Given the weekend polling there will be huge relief in Labour . 10 points isn’t insurmountable , I’ll be interested in seeing their turnout figures .
    Direction of travel still the wrong way for Labour....Tories still disappearing further over the horizon with ICM.
    True but not too much more juice to squeeze from the BXP. Still plenty of juice in that lib dem score tho'
    Not as much as you think. There's plenty in that 13% will NEVER vote tactically for an anti-semite Marxist. If you don't believe my doorstep stories, ask OGH.....
    Yes that is indeed a good point....
  • Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
    I think that is a fair point, but the Labour trend line has also flat-lined and that is with the Lib Dems being totally invisible.
    In the event it really looks like Labour can’t win, you have to wonder if some centre left voters will say “sod it, let’s give the LibDems some love”.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    RobD said:

    theakes said:

    Will there be an Appeal tomorrow re the High Court decision.

    How much money do the SNP and LDs want to throw away?
    Presumably it comes out of their advertising budgets.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited November 2019

    Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
    I think that is a fair point, but the Labour trend line has also flat-lined and that is with the Lib Dems being totally invisible.
    In the event it really looks like Labour can’t win, you have to wonder if some centre left voters will say “sod it, let’s give the LibDems some love”.
    If they tank, it is really quite a bad sign for the mood of the country. That they really don't want a sensible centre left party. It is hard left or hard-ish right.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,254

    nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    I thought the idea that "the Muslim vote" is a key firewall for Labour to be a rather racist and not really practical stereotype.

    Muslims make up fewer than 5% of the population.
    More than 10% of the vote in more than 80 constituencies.

    List here:
    https://conservativemuslimforum.com/can-we-help/resources/muslim-demographics-by-constituency/292/
  • Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
    I have a theory that the BXP > Con move is bigger than the mechanical effect of the BXP candidate disappearing in half the constituencies. BXP voters are basically populists, and populists admire strength. Now that Our Nige has basically given in to Boris via his big stand-down, he has made himself look weak, whereas Boris looks stronger than ever. So the pile on from BXP voters to Boris The Strong Who Will Get Brexit Done is going to be bigger than linear arithmetic would suggest...
  • CBI Dame Carolyn Fairbairn said of Jezza plans - "false instincts for mass nationalisations and forcing inclusive ownership schemes onto thriving businesses does little more than frighten off investors from backing the UK, with pensioners and savers having to foot the bill."

    I'll put her down as a maybe?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The ICM on the face of it looks like a direct swing from the BP to the Tories .

    Which is understandable given the BP has stood down in those Tory seats . More interesting is the Labour share , upto 32% .

    That’s pretty good compared to other polls.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    Inside Info !!!

    Just talked turkey with a mate who lives in Cambridge. He's a true blue Tory, never voted any other way, usually has a Con poster in his window at GE time. This time is different. Cannot abide Johnson and his monkey business, therefore is voting LD. Not a tactical anti-Lab vote, this, but a "hacked off with the Cons" vote.

    I have done the obvious on Betfair for Cambridge.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited November 2019
    nico67 said:

    The ICM on the face of it looks like a direct swing from the BP to the Tories .

    Which is understandable given the BP has stood down in those Tory seats . More interesting is the Labour share , upto 32% .

    That’s pretty good compared to other polls.

    Nice try...but just +1....they have literally had the best possible week media wise, Tories all over the shop, promised free broadband to all and got +1 uptick.
  • camelcamel Posts: 815

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    I thought the idea that "the Muslim vote" is a key firewall for Labour to be a rather racist and not really practical stereotype.

    Muslims make up fewer than 5% of the population.
    It’s not racist , I’m merely pointing out how that demographic is key for Labour in certain seats . The 5% isn’t evenly spread and that’s why it does impact some Labour marginals.
    My apologies if you thought I was calling you racist, I wasn't. That line is often used by critics of Labour/Muslims and I find it unpleasant - I'd far rather view Muslims as individuals just as anyone else than be lumped together as one stereotype.

    I just find it somewhat disturbing to consider any group like that homogenous. I hope we never hear a party speak about their "white voter firewall" in this country for instance.
    Muslims vote 85% Labour though. I hardly think Muslims need wooing.
  • Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
    I think that is a fair point, but the Labour trend line has also flat-lined and that is with the Lib Dems being totally invisible.
    In the event it really looks like Labour can’t win, you have to wonder if some centre left voters will say “sod it, let’s give the LibDems some love”.
    If they tank, it is really quite a bad sign for the mood of the country. That they really don't want a sensible centre left party. It is hard left or hard-ish right.
    No, it's the opposite. We do need a sensible centre-left, or even better centre party, but the LibDems are not doing a good job of presenting themselves as that party.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    MattW said:

    nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    I thought the idea that "the Muslim vote" is a key firewall for Labour to be a rather racist and not really practical stereotype.

    Muslims make up fewer than 5% of the population.
    More than 10% of the vote in more than 80 constituencies.

    List here:
    https://conservativemuslimforum.com/can-we-help/resources/muslim-demographics-by-constituency/292/
    Thanks Matt. That’s a great link.
  • Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
    I think that is a fair point, but the Labour trend line has also flat-lined and that is with the Lib Dems being totally invisible.
    In the event it really looks like Labour can’t win, you have to wonder if some centre left voters will say “sod it, let’s give the LibDems some love”.
    If they tank, it is really quite a bad sign for the mood of the country. That they really don't want a sensible centre left party. It is hard left or hard-ish right.
    No, it's the opposite. We do need a sensible centre-left, or even better centre party, but the LibDems are not doing a good job of presenting themselves as that party.
    Putting aside the terrible revoke policy, all the other stuff seems fairly centrist, no?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Westminster Voting Intention:

    CON: 42% (+3)
    LAB: 32% (+1)
    LDM: 13% (-2)
    BXP: 5% (-3)

    Via @ICMResearch, 15-18 Nov.
    Changes w/ 8-11 Nov.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,488
    I don't see Boris getting a landslide. A small majority is no more or less than this Government deserves - enough to get Brexit done and prove themselves.
  • MattW said:

    nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    I thought the idea that "the Muslim vote" is a key firewall for Labour to be a rather racist and not really practical stereotype.

    Muslims make up fewer than 5% of the population.
    More than 10% of the vote in more than 80 constituencies.

    List here:
    https://conservativemuslimforum.com/can-we-help/resources/muslim-demographics-by-constituency/292/
    Thanks. I wonder which of those are marginals?
  • Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
    I think that is a fair point, but the Labour trend line has also flat-lined and that is with the Lib Dems being totally invisible.
    In the event it really looks like Labour can’t win, you have to wonder if some centre left voters will say “sod it, let’s give the LibDems some love”.
    If they tank, it is really quite a bad sign for the mood of the country. That they really don't want a sensible centre left party. It is hard left or hard-ish right.
    No, it's the opposite. We do need a sensible centre-left, or even better centre party, but the LibDems are not doing a good job of presenting themselves as that party.
    Putting aside the terrible revoke policy, all the other stuff seems fairly centrist, no?
    What other stuff?

    If you put aside the revoke policy they seem a bit of a blank slate this year.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
    I think that is a fair point, but the Labour trend line has also flat-lined and that is with the Lib Dems being totally invisible.
    In the event it really looks like Labour can’t win, you have to wonder if some centre left voters will say “sod it, let’s give the LibDems some love”.
    If they tank, it is really quite a bad sign for the mood of the country. That they really don't want a sensible centre left party. It is hard left or hard-ish right.
    No, it's the opposite. We do need a sensible centre-left, or even better centre party, but the LibDems are not doing a good job of presenting themselves as that party.
    Jo Swinson is no Birgitte Nyborg.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    The ICM on the face of it looks like a direct swing from the BP to the Tories .

    Which is understandable given the BP has stood down in those Tory seats . More interesting is the Labour share , upto 32% .

    That’s pretty good compared to other polls.

    Nice try...but just +1....they have literally had the best possible week media wise, Tories all over the shop, promised free broadband to all and got +1 uptick.
    I agree I thought the NHS and other things would have effected the polling . I suppose Labour need Trump to go awol on his visit and drop a clanger on his visit re the NHS .

    Can you imagine the panic in no 10 if Trump said of course the NHS will be part of any trade deal. Yes I know it’s very unlikely given he wants Bozo to win but it would be hilarious to see the no 10 spin machine try to mitigate the damage .
  • camelcamel Posts: 815

    MattW said:

    nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    I thought the idea that "the Muslim vote" is a key firewall for Labour to be a rather racist and not really practical stereotype.

    Muslims make up fewer than 5% of the population.
    More than 10% of the vote in more than 80 constituencies.

    List here:
    https://conservativemuslimforum.com/can-we-help/resources/muslim-demographics-by-constituency/292/
    Thanks. I wonder which of those are marginals?
    I should think Keighley would be the most marginal in your list.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    I don't see Boris getting a landslide. A small majority is no more or less than this Government deserves - enough to get Brexit done and prove themselves.

    I agree. The voters aren;t going to give the tories a blank chque, no matter how pants labour are.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,838
    Just in case anyone was at risk of going through the day without feeling angry:
    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/john-bercow-to-join-sky-news-for-election-night-coverage/ar-BBWX0Vj?ocid=spartanntp
  • Is it possible that the Tory uptick will only serve to increase Tory votes in safe constituencies and that marginals will still be very unpredictable? Does the date of the uptick correspond with the Brexit Party decision to stand down?

    Labour playing tortoise at the moment.
  • Putting aside the terrible revoke policy, all the other stuff seems fairly centrist, no?

    The trouble is that there hasn't been much sensible other stuff. Other than the Brexit policy, the main things which stand out from the LibDems since the election was mooted are:

    1. They made a great play about wanting the election on a Monday in December, and then failed to vote for it on the grounds that it was on the Thursday of the same week.

    2. The tried to tack on votes for children and foreigners as amendments to that vote. Whatever view you take on the merits of those - and most people are against both - a serious party wouldn't propose major changes to the franchise as an amendment on a short bill for an election date.

    3. Jo Swinson's main contribution has been ludicrous whinging that she was excluded from the TV debates on sexist grounds. This is just childish.

    4. Her other contribution has been to claim that she could be PM after the election.

    None of this gives the impression that they are a serious party, which is where the big gap in the political landscape is.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,605
    MattW said:

    nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    I thought the idea that "the Muslim vote" is a key firewall for Labour to be a rather racist and not really practical stereotype.

    Muslims make up fewer than 5% of the population.
    More than 10% of the vote in more than 80 constituencies.

    List here:
    https://conservativemuslimforum.com/can-we-help/resources/muslim-demographics-by-constituency/292/
    I suspect those 80 seats will make up a fairly high percentage of Labour seats after the election.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    A reminder that there are more important things than the Bozo and Jezza show:

    "Deforestation of Brazil's Amazon rainforest increased by 29.5% in 12 months, the highest rate since 2008, the country's space agency reports. The rainforest lost 9,762 sq km (3,769 sq miles) of its vegetation between August 2018 and July 2019, Inpe says."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-50459602
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Is it possible that the Tory uptick will only serve to increase Tory votes in safe constituencies and that marginals will still be very unpredictable? Does the date of the uptick correspond with the Brexit Party decision to stand down?

    Labour playing tortoise at the moment.

    Alternatively, labour could be piling up votes in Hackney and Merseyside....
  • Putting aside the terrible revoke policy, all the other stuff seems fairly centrist, no?

    The trouble is that there hasn't been much sensible other stuff. Other than the Brexit policy, the main things which stand out from the LibDems since the election was mooted are:

    1. They made a great play about wanting the election on a Monday in December, and then failed to vote for it on the grounds that it was on the Thursday of the same week.

    2. The tried to tack on votes for children and foreigners as amendments to that vote. Whatever view you take on the merits of those - and most people are against both - a serious party wouldn't propose major changes to the franchise as an amendment on a short bill for an election date.

    3. Jo Swinson's main contribution has been ludicrous whinging that she was excluded from the TV debates on sexist grounds. This is just childish.

    4. Her other contribution has been to claim that she could be PM after the election.

    None of this gives the impression that they are a serious party, which is where the big gap in the political landscape is.
    Evening all. You are forgetting the tree growing target. Be fair now.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
    I think that is a fair point, but the Labour trend line has also flat-lined and that is with the Lib Dems being totally invisible.
    In the event it really looks like Labour can’t win, you have to wonder if some centre left voters will say “sod it, let’s give the LibDems some love”.
    If they tank, it is really quite a bad sign for the mood of the country. That they really don't want a sensible centre left party. It is hard left or hard-ish right.
    No, it's the opposite. We do need a sensible centre-left, or even better centre party, but the LibDems are not doing a good job of presenting themselves as that party.
    Putting aside the terrible revoke policy, all the other stuff seems fairly centrist, no?
    Using "Bollocks" as their standout word whilst trying to present themselves as a sensible, moderate party is not a good idea IMO
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Cookie said:
    Why I think Bercow is great . That’s a great move by Sky . Without Bercow we could have ended up crashing out with no deal . He might be arrogant and full of himself but anyone who pisses off the unhinged ERG nutjobs is fine by me !
  • camelcamel Posts: 815

    A reminder that there are more important things than the Bozo and Jezza show:

    "Deforestation of Brazil's Amazon rainforest increased by 29.5% in 12 months, the highest rate since 2008, the country's space agency reports. The rainforest lost 9,762 sq km (3,769 sq miles) of its vegetation between August 2018 and July 2019, Inpe says."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-50459602

    Which, in terms used by any qualified journalist, is almost exactly half the size of Wales.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,605
    Cookie said:
    Hopefully he'll only be on occasionally.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614

    Is it possible that the Tory uptick will only serve to increase Tory votes in safe constituencies and that marginals will still be very unpredictable? Does the date of the uptick correspond with the Brexit Party decision to stand down?

    As a bare minimum, it will serve to help the Tories against the LibDems.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Cookie said:
    Oh good lord.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    humbugger said:

    Putting aside the terrible revoke policy, all the other stuff seems fairly centrist, no?

    The trouble is that there hasn't been much sensible other stuff. Other than the Brexit policy, the main things which stand out from the LibDems since the election was mooted are:

    1. They made a great play about wanting the election on a Monday in December, and then failed to vote for it on the grounds that it was on the Thursday of the same week.

    2. The tried to tack on votes for children and foreigners as amendments to that vote. Whatever view you take on the merits of those - and most people are against both - a serious party wouldn't propose major changes to the franchise as an amendment on a short bill for an election date.

    3. Jo Swinson's main contribution has been ludicrous whinging that she was excluded from the TV debates on sexist grounds. This is just childish.

    4. Her other contribution has been to claim that she could be PM after the election.

    None of this gives the impression that they are a serious party, which is where the big gap in the political landscape is.
    Evening all. You are forgetting the tree growing target. Be fair now.
    To do in five years a mere fifth of what Ethiopia did in 12 hours?
  • nico67 said:

    Cookie said:
    Why I think Bercow is great . That’s a great move by Sky . Without Bercow we could have ended up crashing out with no deal . He might be arrogant and full of himself but anyone who pisses off the unhinged ERG nutjobs is fine by me !
    Can we all write in to Sky and tell them that him saying “order, order” when other guests fall out is an obvious joke and won’t be funny?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    Is it possible that the Tory uptick will only serve to increase Tory votes in safe constituencies and that marginals will still be very unpredictable? Does the date of the uptick correspond with the Brexit Party decision to stand down?

    Labour playing tortoise at the moment.

    Alternatively, labour could be piling up votes in Hackney and Merseyside....
    More likely the Lib Dems are taking votes in urban areas which were more pro Remain but Labour still has enough of a lead to keep them and their vote is become more efficient . After the 17 point horror show lead for the Tories in the YouGov poll Labour will be relieved to see this ICM poll.
  • nico67 said:

    Cookie said:
    Why I think Bercow is great . That’s a great move by Sky . Without Bercow we could have ended up crashing out with no deal . He might be arrogant and full of himself but anyone who pisses off the unhinged ERG nutjobs is fine by me !
    He set out to thwart not just a No Deal Brexit but any Brexit at all. Worst Speaker in living memory.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    Cookie said:
    I hope he is spitting tacks on the night. Why don't Sky invite his wife too and have everyone tune away,.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Cookie said:
    When does John Bercow's peerage arrive or are all non-Thatcherites now to be denied honours for services to public life?

    No Sir Ken Clarke, despite 49 years of public service ...?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited November 2019

    Is it possible that the Tory uptick will only serve to increase Tory votes in safe constituencies and that marginals will still be very unpredictable? Does the date of the uptick correspond with the Brexit Party decision to stand down?

    Labour playing tortoise at the moment.

    The evidence, such as it is, suggests the Tory monster majorities are being pressed (wokingham etc, other southern and home counties seats) and their vote is holding up due to support in leave areas (such as the North and Midlands). Almost a perfect storm, but also very very precarious and susceptible to a few % points dip
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Cookie said:
    When does John Bercow's peerage arrive or are all non-Thatcherites now to be denied honours for services to public life?

    No Sir Ken Clarke, despite 49 years of public service ...?
    Has the dissolution honours list been published?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    edited November 2019
    Anyone got any insights or hunches regarding Hartlepool consitituency?

    Three-way marginal - very tricky to call. Tice for BXP.

    I`m on Labour at 11/10 at the moment but may have this wrong.
  • Cookie said:
    When does John Bercow's peerage arrive or are all non-Thatcherites now to be denied honours for services to public life?

    No Sir Ken Clarke, despite 49 years of public service ...?
    Clarke will be an asset to the Lords. Bercow will not.
  • Cookie said:
    When does John Bercow's peerage arrive or are all non-Thatcherites now to be denied honours for services to public life?

    No Sir Ken Clarke, despite 49 years of public service ...?
    Clarke will be an asset to the Lords. Bercow will not.
    Just as an aside by the way, has anyone ever served as both Commons Speaker and Lords Speaker (Lord Chancellor) during their careers?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Re Prince Nonce. We will look back in 5 years and remember him as part of the first page of the first chapter of this pandemic
  • nico67 said:

    Cookie said:
    Why I think Bercow is great . That’s a great move by Sky . Without Bercow we could have ended up crashing out with no deal . He might be arrogant and full of himself but anyone who pisses off the unhinged ERG nutjobs is fine by me !
    If the polls are right, it's Sky that's trolling him! :wink:
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited November 2019
    Stocky said:

    Anyone got any insights or hunches regarding Hartlepool consitituency?

    Three-way marginal - very tricky to call. Tice for BXP.

    I`m on Labour at 11/10 at the moment but may have this wrong.

    Good call. Tories probably not strong enough to take but too strong to let Tice take it. Get on Con if they are 12% clear on average in the polls by polling day
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Cookie said:
    When does John Bercow's peerage arrive or are all non-Thatcherites now to be denied honours for services to public life?

    No Sir Ken Clarke, despite 49 years of public service ...?
    Clarke will be an asset to the Lords. Bercow will not.
    Just as an aside by the way, has anyone ever served as both Commons Speaker and Lords Speaker (Lord Chancellor) during their careers?
    Well is only recently that the lords elected their own speaker, before that it was the lord chancellor who was in the cabinet so I don’t think so.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614

    Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
    I think that is a fair point, but the Labour trend line has also flat-lined and that is with the Lib Dems being totally invisible.
    In the event it really looks like Labour can’t win, you have to wonder if some centre left voters will say “sod it, let’s give the LibDems some love”.
    Alternatively, if Labour can't win and Brexit can't be stopped, how many are going to think "sod the lot of them...." and not vote at all?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited November 2019

    Another poll...another one showing an extended Tory lead. Only 1 of all the polls over the weekend didn't show Tories extending their lead (and that was showing same lead). And that is after an absolutely shit week for the Tories in the media.

    But Brexit pulling half their candidates is the dominant factor in that. Represents an increase in Tory vote share in seats they already hold. Not where they need to make gains.

    Yes, I'm clutching at straws...
    I think that is a fair point, but the Labour trend line has also flat-lined and that is with the Lib Dems being totally invisible.
    In the event it really looks like Labour can’t win, you have to wonder if some centre left voters will say “sod it, let’s give the LibDems some love”.
    Alternatively, if Labour can't win and Brexit can't be stopped, how many are going to think "sod the lot of them...." and not vote at all?
    Labour can’t, won’t and shouldn’t win so no need to be scared of Corbyn, vote lib dem to try and modify the future. If you ever want to see a none Tory government again vote anything but labour to rid them of the destruction within.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Research out proves beyond a doubt that the UK press is overwhelmingly biased towards the Tories.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    nico67 said:

    Research out proves beyond a doubt that the UK press is overwhelmingly biased towards the Tories.

    Is it biased to say one party's position on something like institutional antisemitism is crap?
  • nico67 said:

    Research out proves beyond a doubt that the UK press is overwhelmingly biased towards the Tories.

    Labour will have the Sun and the Times again in a few years like they used to. Possibly also the Mail. These things are cyclical.
  • nico67 said:

    Research out proves beyond a doubt that the UK press is overwhelmingly biased towards the Tories.

    As they should be - the electorate is heavily biased towards the Tories too! :smile:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236

    How could any business have him as a spokesperson after that interview. It would be commercial suicide.

    Yes, how to explain the transformation of dashing RN pilot with Donny Osmond looks to seedy parasite in the space of a few years? Was it inevitable? Could things have been different if things had been different? Or was the Andrew as he became always there in the Andrew he once was? It's impossible to know. One can only speculate and there seems little point in that.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    nico67 said:

    Research out proves beyond a doubt that the UK press is overwhelmingly biased towards the Tories.

    I'd go further. They are Tory activists.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614

    nico67 said:

    Research out proves beyond a doubt that the UK press is overwhelmingly biased towards the Tories.

    Labour will have the Sun and the Times again in a few years like they used to. Possibly also the Mail. These things are cyclical.
    So are ice ages.....
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Re Prince Nonce. We will look back in 5 years and remember him as part of the first page of the first chapter of this pandemic

    Will we? What pandemic? Is this some kind of "deep down which of us is not guilty of noncedom in our heart of hearts" card being played?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kinabalu said:

    How could any business have him as a spokesperson after that interview. It would be commercial suicide.

    Yes, how to explain the transformation of dashing RN pilot with Donny Osmond looks to seedy parasite in the space of a few years? Was it inevitable? Could things have been different if things had been different? Or was the Andrew as he became always there in the Andrew he once was? It's impossible to know. One can only speculate and there seems little point in that.
    The randy andy moniker was neither a mistake nor without an understanding of his fancies. Hes just moved from 2nd in line and 'protected' to 8th in line and dispensable. The Epstein contact book and case will unmask a great many more untouchables.
  • Party Political Broadcast on now by the Jo Swinson party all about her
  • Cookie said:
    When does John Bercow's peerage arrive or are all non-Thatcherites now to be denied honours for services to public life?

    No Sir Ken Clarke, despite 49 years of public service ...?
    Clarke will be an asset to the Lords. Bercow will not.
    On what basis do you make that judgement?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    kinabalu said:

    How could any business have him as a spokesperson after that interview. It would be commercial suicide.

    Yes, how to explain the transformation of dashing RN pilot with Donny Osmond looks to seedy parasite in the space of a few years? Was it inevitable? Could things have been different if things had been different? Or was the Andrew as he became always there in the Andrew he once was? It's impossible to know. One can only speculate and there seems little point in that.
    The randy andy moniker was neither a mistake nor without an understanding of his fancies. Hes just moved from 2nd in line and 'protected' to 8th in line and dispensable. The Epstein contact book and case will unmask a great many more untouchables.
    I read that Charles is going to slimline things once he becomes King, with his siblings demoted to second-class royals.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,614
    IshmaelZ said:

    Re Prince Nonce. We will look back in 5 years and remember him as part of the first page of the first chapter of this pandemic

    Will we? What pandemic? Is this some kind of "deep down which of us is not guilty of noncedom in our heart of hearts" card being played?
    The Dark Heart of the Deep State?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    nico67 said:

    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1196471156972412934

    Are labour now actively trying to lose?

    Good lord - what are they on?
    Have they legalized marijuana yet because a lot seems to be going around at Labour HQ !

    Seriously though this looks a bit silly but perhaps is aimed at ethnic minorities . Not forgetting that Labours firewall in quite a few marginals in the Midlands and nw is the Muslim vote .

    One of the obvious legacies of Empire is that many citizens from countries in the Empire became entitled to become British citizens and move here to live, even after their home countries became independent. Is that one of the “legacies” a Labour government will examine? And, if not, why not? And to what purpose anyway?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    IshmaelZ said:

    Re Prince Nonce. We will look back in 5 years and remember him as part of the first page of the first chapter of this pandemic

    Will we? What pandemic? Is this some kind of "deep down which of us is not guilty of noncedom in our heart of hearts" card being played?
    The quite clear pandemic of abuse amongst the elite. Or, we can pretend its just Weinstein, Spacey, Epstein and Andrew and that the global figures for trafficking of people for sex and of minors is run by a few bad eggs and is not in any way an integrated worldwide scandal. All those people who flew on his plane with young girls and holidayed on his island were just 'mates' and had no idea of the pedo sex
This discussion has been closed.