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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The voting polling’s bad for LAB but Corbyn’s ratings are even

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited November 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The voting polling’s bad for LAB but Corbyn’s ratings are even worse

Above is the Wikipedia list of all the published polls since the general election campaign began. The overall picture is of not that much variation with the Tories in a range of 37-42%,  LAB 27-31% and the LDs 15-17%.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Last! (on the previous thread)
  • I've been too busy at work to pay much attention but glancing at the papers we find Corbyn is a cock; Farage complaining of Tory dirty tricks (illegal ones too, so it will be interesting to see if he does go to the police or is just mouthing off); the NHS, like Venice, is under water.

    Fwiw, probably nothing, I've still overheard just the one person talking about the election, saying he'd opened a bottle of wine. I did not hear enough to discover if that was to celebrate or drown his sorrows.
  • Third! Like SLAB (if they're lucky...)
  • We have only had three Scottish voting intention polls since Ruth Davidson resigned as leader of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party on 29 August, but the overall picture north of the border is also of not that much variation, with the SNP in a range of 39-43%, SCons 20-22%, SLab 12-19% and SLD 12-13%.

    This translates as swings of:

    SCon to SNP circa 6 points
    SLab to SNP circa 8 points
    SNP to SLD circa 1 point

    As far a leader ratings are concerned, I haven’t seen any Scottish ones for ages, but they have been pretty stable for years. Ruth Davidson was the only Unionist leader ever in positive territory, and even then in was only slightly over the zero mark; Sturgeon is always hovering around the neutral mark too. The rest (Leonard, Rennie, Johnson and Corbyn) are deep, deep into negative territory. From memory the last Johnson and Corbyn ratings were about -65.

    The question mark is how is Swinson doing? Probably quite well? Around the Sturgeon/Davidson range?
  • During the Labour leadership campaign, Corbyn received heavy support from Scottish Labour. Not many Blairites north of the border after the Jim Murphy rout!

    That Corbyn support has evaporated like snow off a dyke in April. They are all incandescent with rage at how he has handled the key IndyRef2 issue, and less-importantly Brexit. Not only has he been far too sympathetic to both, but he has flip-flopped badly. If a leader is going to make an unpopular decision, they must make it and then stick to their guns, not change the story every time they talk to a journalist.

    This wouldn’t matter so much if Richard Leonard was remotely competent. He isn’t.

    SLab are not in a happy place, and voters sense that.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,435
    Labour's tactic of fighting the GE on the same lines as the last one looks like it isnt working, relying on pushing the end of austerity sounds tame and rather unimaginative - its till early days but the Conservatives have a different tune that Labour do not seem to have countered yet. They need a shock event to shake it up and I dont seem one yet.
  • SNP drifting in Dumfries & Galloway (Con Maj 5,643), the seat of the new Secretary of State for Scotland Alister Jack, who took over when David Mundell was sacked.

    SCon 3/4
    SNP 11/10
    SLab 50/1
    SLD 100/1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084

    Labour's tactic of fighting the GE on the same lines as the last one looks like it isnt working, relying on pushing the end of austerity sounds tame and rather unimaginative - its till early days but the Conservatives have a different tune that Labour do not seem to have countered yet. They need a shock event to shake it up and I dont seem one yet.

    I think that’s right. Labour is doing its “end austerity, save the NHS” shtick, ignoring the fact that the Tories have now found the magic money tree. The Tories are going to do their usual “Labour will borrow and spend” shtick, ignoring the fact that the Tories have now found the magic money tree. This isn’t going to be enlightening or edifying.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited November 2019
    This daily Mail negative campaign is relentless, wonder if they will bring out the comments about Boris fitness from Gove, May et al.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Jonathan said:

    This daily Mail negative campaign is relentless, wonder if they will bring out the comments about Boris fitness from Gove, May et al.
    Well Jonathan, you need to address how much Corbyn is loathed by his own party members. Its killing the Labour vote.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    Jonathan said:

    This daily Mail negative campaign is relentless, wonder if they will bring out the comments about Boris fitness from Gove, May et al.
    Well Jonathan, you need to address how much Corbyn is loathed by his own party members. Its killing the Labour vote.
    These aren't just comments from members. These are the people who would be standing behind him, cheering him on at PMQs, if they were to be elected.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Do Labour “remainers” even care that most of these Labour nationalisation plans would not be remotely legal without leaving the EU? Specifically the way they intend to “pay” for the nationalisation, if not the act themselves.

    And for the love of god, will somebody try to get the message through that evil “shareholders” are every single person with a private pension fund. And indirectly actually every single person in the country, given that this includes “funded” public sector pension schemes eg Local Govt etc.

    Labour intends to destroy shareholder value on the one hand, and indeed destroy bond holder value as well by basically “printing” Govt bonds to “pay” for everything. What is there left for pension schemes to invest in?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    I do wonder if Labour is going to get crucified by differential turnout? I can see why Tories who just want Brexit done and dusted will turn out. I can see why LibDems who want Brexit stopped will turn out. I can see why the SNP voters who want another referendum will turn out.

    Why will voters turn out in December to elect a Brexit-ambivalent Jeremy Corbyn?

    Free Broadband?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    edited November 2019
    What's the backstory on why Britain hasn't already got broadband in the first place? I mean, the poles are already there, they just have to run fiber along them, no? If they can't manage this how did the British ever manage to get telephones?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    I can't see how 'free broadband' would operate. We didn't have 'free telephones' when possession of a landline was a similar situation, and I may be wrong but I don't know that any other country has gone down either route.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.

    Free computers as well? After all, the former is pretty useless without the latter...
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    I do wonder if Labour is going to get crucified by differential turnout?

    If you're relying now on 'differential turnout' then you're in real trouble.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    And I've been chatting to dozens of people who will wade through broken glass to stop Corbyn getting elected.

    You really need to go and canvass for Labour.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    What's the backstory on why Britain hasn't already got broadband in the first place? I mean, the poles are already there, they just have to run fiber along them, no? If they can't manage this how did the British ever manage to get telephones?

    I think the problem is that we're getting rid of the Poles, and that's making it harder to deploy broadband.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    alex. said:

    Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.

    Free computers as well? After all, the former is pretty useless without the latter...
    Broadband serves multiple devices, not only computers. Think of it as a free state service. How you tap into it will then be up to you.

    I've often thought it should be free. It will foster productivity and therefore for you capitalist-minded types, a great boon to the economy.
  • "Swinson has the the largest number, 33%, saying don’t know and that should get smaller during the campaign."

    Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that ... millions of voters are likely to be confused, perplexed, angry even that a so-called democratic and liberal party have denied what it says on the can by promising to revoke Article 50, just like that, without even so much as a second referendum, offering a leave option which was voted for by a majority, totalling in excess of 17 million.
    Nothing very democratic or liberal about that, which probably largely explains the sharp decline in the party's fortunes over the past few weeks and why the likes of the spread-betting firms have chopped their prices for LD seats by around 25% from the high forties then to the mid thirties now ... shame really, it was looking so positive for them just a few weeks ago.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.



    You really need to go and canvass for Labour.
    Like you do?!
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?

    Corbyn has -69 favourability. Most people are anti-Corbyn, they might vote Labour but few are voting Corbyn. I appreciate you're on here to ramp him but let's keep things evidence based.

    Were you talking to yourself last night by any chance?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?

    Corbyn has -69 favourability. Most people are anti-Corbyn, they might vote Labour but few are voting Corbyn. I appreciate you're on here to ramp him but let's keep things evidence based.
    I'm a LibDem actually but I like the way Labour are the ones with all the ideas.

    Some of the lampooning of Corbyn in the right-wing press is plainly ridiculous.

    The debates are very dangerous for Johnson. If there's anyone watching who actually reads the Daily Mail the only way for Corbyn will be up.

    But you're right, it's Labour that Labour voters will vote for. They may do so through gritted teeth, but they will.

    This has been another rubbish campaign by the tories. 9 years in office and they are tired, bereft of any ideas and they only have one drum to beat. I am increasingly sensing it won't be enough to get them over the line.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    "Swinson has the the largest number, 33%, saying don’t know and that should get smaller during the campaign."

    Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that ... millions of voters are likely to be confused, perplexed, angry even that a so-called democratic and liberal party have denied what it says on the can by promising to revoke Article 50, just like that, without even so much as a second referendum, offering a leave option which was voted for by a majority, totalling in excess of 17 million.
    Nothing very democratic or liberal about that, which probably largely explains the sharp decline in the party's fortunes over the past few weeks and why the likes of the spread-betting firms have chopped their prices for LD seats by around 25% from the high forties then to the mid thirties now ... shame really, it was looking so positive for them just a few weeks ago.

    I think that - even if Jo Swinson had not made her foolish and undemocratic pledge - then the LibDem seat markets would have declined. Simply, the mid-40s number was always absurd.

    Indeed, anything above around 31-32 is incredibly difficult for the LDs, unless there is a major shift from Labour.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?

    Corbyn has -69 favourability. Most people are anti-Corbyn, they might vote Labour but few are voting Corbyn. I appreciate you're on here to ramp him but let's keep things evidence based.
    I'm a LibDem actually but I like the way Labour are the ones with all the ideas.

    Some of the lampooning of Corbyn in the right-wing press is plainly ridiculous.

    The debates are very dangerous for Johnson. If there's anyone watching who actually reads the Daily Mail the only way for Corbyn will be up.

    But you're right, it's Labour that Labour voters will vote for. They may do so through gritted teeth, but they will.

    This has been another rubbish campaign by the tories. 9 years in office and they are tired, bereft of any ideas and they only have one drum to beat. I am increasingly sensing it won't be enough to get them over the line.
    But you've said all this before. Many times. It's a great script that some people might enjoy on the doorstep but on here it just seems a bit false. Unfortunately I don't buy that you are a LD and neither do I buy this backstory of growing up in a Tory household.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    So, unlike the Tories, Jezza hasn't purged the party...

    On the basis of these headlines it is quite safe to have a Labour government, as the troops will keep the Leader in line. 😅

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    Foxy said:

    So, unlike the Tories, Jezza hasn't purged the party...

    On the basis of these headlines it is quite safe to have a Labour government, as the troops will keep the Leader in line. 😅

    I was actually thinking the same thing :smiley:
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?

    Corbyn has -69 favourability. Most people are anti-Corbyn, they might vote Labour but few are voting Corbyn. I appreciate you're on here to ramp him but let's keep things evidence based.
    I'm a LibDem actually but I like the way Labour are the ones with all the ideas.

    Some of the lampooning of Corbyn in the right-wing press is plainly ridiculous.

    The debates are very dangerous for Johnson. If there's anyone watching who actually reads the Daily Mail the only way for Corbyn will be up.

    But you're right, it's Labour that Labour voters will vote for. They may do so through gritted teeth, but they will.

    This has been another rubbish campaign by the tories. 9 years in office and they are tired, bereft of any ideas and they only have one drum to beat. I am increasingly sensing it won't be enough to get them over the line.
    But you've said all this before. Many times. It's a great script that some people might enjoy on the doorstep but on here it just seems a bit false. Unfortunately I don't buy that you are a LD and neither do I buy this backstory of growing up in a Tory household.
    Would it shock you to learn I couldn't give a monkey's toss what you do or don't think or believe? I could prove to you all those things very easily but you're not worth it.

    To everyone else, however, I will say this. I try to be objective and see the good in different parties. I'm not a partisan. Some of what the Conservatives have brought to the table in recent years has been excellent, although much hasn't. I don't believe in Brexit but that doesn't mean I think the EU is perfect.

    What gets my goat is the way the right-wing media lampoon Corbyn and Labour when they're actually making all the running with some great ideas. Not all. Some of them are wild.

    Most of all, though, like most posters on here I see through Boris Johnson and loathe him. He's a shyster and a crook.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    You really need to go and canvass for Labour.
    Like you do?!
    I go and knock on doors for those we have no canvass returns on. Once you discount the houses that are holiday lets that won't have anybody in them until Christmas now, you start getting down to the voters. There are some big fully occupied houses. They are (perhaps surprisingly) often Labour. Many of the rest are poor or pensioners. Often there is quite an overlap between the two.

    It may be beautiful down here, but there always has been much poverty in Devon and Cornwall. That the Labour vote has collapsed down here should give you more to think about than one guy who reckons the mood in the country is changing.

    As I say, go and knock on some doors with a Labour rosette on. Report back on the mood of your bit of the country when you have. We'll be fascinated by your candid reaction.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2019
    MM you're a tory canvasser.

    And I'm not giving the game away about my canvassing results, not even when you're being that patronising. Not for the moment ;) All I will say is that I live in a marginal seat and it's very interesting out there.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?

    Corbyn has -69 favourability. Most people are anti-Corbyn, they might vote Labour but few are voting Corbyn. I appreciate you're on here to ramp him but let's keep things evidence based.
    I'm a LibDem actually but I like the way Labour are the ones with all the ideas.

    Some of the lampooning of Corbyn in the right-wing press is plainly ridiculous.

    The debates are very dangerous for Johnson. If there's anyone watching who actually reads the Daily Mail the only way for Corbyn will be up.

    But you're right, it's Labour that Labour voters will vote for. They may do so through gritted teeth, but they will.

    This has been another rubbish campaign by the tories. 9 years in office and they are tired, bereft of any ideas and they only have one drum to beat. I am increasingly sensing it won't be enough to get them over the line.
    "I'm a LibDem actually but I like the way Labour are the ones with all the ideas."

    Goodness, how interesting. You are living proof that support for Corbyn transcends the old tribal loyalties and I will certainly look at him with new eyes after reading your post. I am X, but party Y's views are winning me over is a thing that astroturfers never say. Ever.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    During the Labour leadership campaign, Corbyn received heavy support from Scottish Labour. Not many Blairites north of the border after the Jim Murphy rout!

    That Corbyn support has evaporated like snow off a dyke in April. They are all incandescent with rage at how he has handled the key IndyRef2 issue, and less-importantly Brexit. Not only has he been far too sympathetic to both, but he has flip-flopped badly. If a leader is going to make an unpopular decision, they must make it and then stick to their guns, not change the story every time they talk to a journalist.

    This wouldn’t matter so much if Richard Leonard was remotely competent. He isn’t.

    SLab are not in a happy place, and voters sense that.
    Hard to believe it but Leonard seems to be the worst SLAB leader yet, given the competition that is some achievement.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?

    Corbyn has -69 favourability. Most people are anti-Corbyn, they might vote Labour but few are voting Corbyn. I appreciate you're on here to ramp him but let's keep things evidence based.
    I'm a LibDem actually but I like the way Labour are the ones with all the ideas.

    Some of the lampooning of Corbyn in the right-wing press is plainly ridiculous.

    The debates are very dangerous for Johnson. If there's anyone watching who actually reads the Daily Mail the only way for Corbyn will be up.

    But you're right, it's Labour that Labour voters will vote for. They may do so through gritted teeth, but they will.

    This has been another rubbish campaign by the tories. 9 years in office and they are tired, bereft of any ideas and they only have one drum to beat. I am increasingly sensing it won't be enough to get them over the line.
    But you've said all this before. Many times. It's a great script that some people might enjoy on the doorstep but on here it just seems a bit false. Unfortunately I don't buy that you are a LD and neither do I buy this backstory of growing up in a Tory household.
    Would it shock you to learn I couldn't give a monkey's toss what you do or don't think or believe? I could prove to you all those things very easily but you're not worth it.

    To everyone else, however, I will say this. I try to be objective and see the good in different parties. I'm not a partisan. Some of what the Conservatives have brought to the table in recent years has been excellent, although much hasn't. I don't believe in Brexit but that doesn't mean I think the EU is perfect.

    What gets my goat is the way the right-wing media lampoon Corbyn and Labour when they're actually making all the running with some great ideas. Not all. Some of them are wild.

    Most of all, though, like most posters on here I see through Boris Johnson and loathe him. He's a shyster and a crook.
    Why would the right wing media lampooning a far left communist and terrorist sympathiser like Corbyn get your goat? Isn't that what they are for?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    rcs1000 said:

    What's the backstory on why Britain hasn't already got broadband in the first place? I mean, the poles are already there, they just have to run fiber along them, no? If they can't manage this how did the British ever manage to get telephones?

    I think the problem is that we're getting rid of the Poles, and that's making it harder to deploy broadband.
    Did Labour not Czech they would have a workforce before making this latest pledge?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2019
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    What's the backstory on why Britain hasn't already got broadband in the first place? I mean, the poles are already there, they just have to run fiber along them, no? If they can't manage this how did the British ever manage to get telephones?

    I think the problem is that we're getting rid of the Poles, and that's making it harder to deploy broadband.
    Did Labour not Czech they would have a workforce before making this latest pledge?
    They don't want to leave the people Hungary
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    malcolmg said:

    During the Labour leadership campaign, Corbyn received heavy support from Scottish Labour. Not many Blairites north of the border after the Jim Murphy rout!

    That Corbyn support has evaporated like snow off a dyke in April. They are all incandescent with rage at how he has handled the key IndyRef2 issue, and less-importantly Brexit. Not only has he been far too sympathetic to both, but he has flip-flopped badly. If a leader is going to make an unpopular decision, they must make it and then stick to their guns, not change the story every time they talk to a journalist.

    This wouldn’t matter so much if Richard Leonard was remotely competent. He isn’t.

    SLab are not in a happy place, and voters sense that.
    Hard to believe it but Leonard seems to be the worst SLAB leader yet, given the competition that is some achievement.
    I always liked Kezia. She seemed quite sane, but given an impossibly sticky wicket.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    rcs1000 said:

    "Swinson has the the largest number, 33%, saying don’t know and that should get smaller during the campaign."

    Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that ... millions of voters are likely to be confused, perplexed, angry even that a so-called democratic and liberal party have denied what it says on the can by promising to revoke Article 50, just like that, without even so much as a second referendum, offering a leave option which was voted for by a majority, totalling in excess of 17 million.
    Nothing very democratic or liberal about that, which probably largely explains the sharp decline in the party's fortunes over the past few weeks and why the likes of the spread-betting firms have chopped their prices for LD seats by around 25% from the high forties then to the mid thirties now ... shame really, it was looking so positive for them just a few weeks ago.

    I think that - even if Jo Swinson had not made her foolish and undemocratic pledge - then the LibDem seat markets would have declined. Simply, the mid-40s number was always absurd.

    Indeed, anything above around 31-32 is incredibly difficult for the LDs, unless there is a major shift from Labour.
    You can still back under 38.5 libdem seats at 5/6 with betvictor. I'm on.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674

    Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.

    It is just bollox, Labour would cock it up and we would end up back to the 70's when you waited up to a year just to get a shared telephone line. How do you think those donkeys will get 20 billion out of Google, facebook, etc. F***ing nutters.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    edited November 2019

    I can't see how 'free broadband' would operate. We didn't have 'free telephones' when possession of a landline was a similar situation, and I may be wrong but I don't know that any other country has gone down either route.

    The same is true of the health service though. Most countries don't go for free at the point of use systems, but you can make it work if what you're trying to do is give everyone a similar, well-understood service without a lot of choice.

    TBF fiber to all the buildings in the country does sound like it fits this description, and I'd imagine it's more efficient to say, "OK, we're doing this street on Thursday up to any house that wants it" rather than building everything out piecemeal when somebody manages to sell each house a contract. It's also pretty much how Britain does sewage, IIUC: You don't traditionally shop around then contract with a sewage provider who then works out how get a sewer to your home. You just assume everybody wants to flush their toilet.

    That said, like I say I don't really understand why Britain hasn't already got fiber everywhere in the first place, so I can't say whether this idea would fix it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?

    Corbyn has -69 favourability. Most people are anti-Corbyn, they might vote Labour but few are voting Corbyn. I appreciate you're on here to ramp him but let's keep things evidence based.
    I'm a LibDem actually but I like the way Labour are the ones with all the ideas.

    Some of the lampooning of Corbyn in the right-wing press is plainly ridiculous.

    The debates are very dangerous for Johnson. If there's anyone watching who actually reads the Daily Mail the only way for Corbyn will be up.

    But you're right, it's Labour that Labour voters will vote for. They may do so through gritted teeth, but they will.

    This has been another rubbish campaign by the tories. 9 years in office and they are tired, bereft of any ideas and they only have one drum to beat. I am increasingly sensing it won't be enough to get them over the line.
    But you've said all this before. Many times. It's a great script that some people might enjoy on the doorstep but on here it just seems a bit false. Unfortunately I don't buy that you are a LD and neither do I buy this backstory of growing up in a Tory household.
    Would it shock you to learn I couldn't give a monkey's toss what you do or don't think or believe? I could prove to you all those things very easily but you're not worth it.

    To everyone else, however, I will say this. I try to be objective and see the good in different parties. I'm not a partisan. Some of what the Conservatives have brought to the table in recent years has been excellent, although much hasn't. I don't believe in Brexit but that doesn't mean I think the EU is perfect.

    What gets my goat is the way the right-wing media lampoon Corbyn and Labour when they're actually making all the running with some great ideas. Not all. Some of them are wild.

    Most of all, though, like most posters on here I see through Boris Johnson and loathe him. He's a shyster and a crook.
    Why would the right wing media lampooning a far left communist and terrorist sympathiser like Corbyn get your goat? Isn't that what they are for?
    I think "Mystic" Rose is getting through to the wrong sort of Labour voters.

    Dead ones.
  • I'm loving this election watching from afar - my 19 y.o son is going to drive himself 100 miles just to vote Lib Dem which I am proud of him for - I don't know the mood of the country at all but from the Danish coverage it doesn't feel like 2017.

    Oh, and we have one of the most digitised societies going and yet somehow nobody here thinks the government should own and run the broadband - last week's political satire programme had a bit on what a government designed iPad would look like (statsPad), after a politician suggested taking on the Big Tech guys with state sponsored tech development - Labour are crazy to be suggesting ideas from the 1840s to solve problems of the 2020s but more such ideas should help prevent any risk of Corbyn being PM so have at it Labour.
  • Labour's free Broadband pledge should be taken seriously and treated as such which means subjected to scrutiny. A BT Openreach fibre cabinet costs £27,000 and only reaches a distance of approximately 1.5 miles. Unless Labour just means free fibre broadband to 95% of the population it will cost £billions more. I have a BT Openreach fibre running across the end of my driveway to the "local" exchange which is 4 miles away. BT has made it clear it has no plans to offer fibre to my neighbours or me since a cabinet to service fewer than 2 dozen houses is not viable. I therefore had wireless broadband installed which is fantastic.

    It also needs Amazon etc to make clear how many thousand jobs would be lost if Labour's Tec Tax goes ahead. People might not be so keen if they realised it would mean an end to cheap next day delivery. The snowflakes might have to get off their arses and learn how to walk to shops to purchase something, if of course there are any shops left!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,674
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    What's the backstory on why Britain hasn't already got broadband in the first place? I mean, the poles are already there, they just have to run fiber along them, no? If they can't manage this how did the British ever manage to get telephones?

    I think the problem is that we're getting rid of the Poles, and that's making it harder to deploy broadband.
    Did Labour not Czech they would have a workforce before making this latest pledge?
    To be Franc (e) I don't know
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?

    Corbyn has -69 favourability. Most people are anti-Corbyn, they might vote Labour but few are voting Corbyn. I appreciate you're on here to ramp him but let's keep things evidence based.
    I'm a LibDem actually but I like the way Labour are the ones with all the ideas.

    Some of the lampooning of Corbyn in the right-wing press is plainly ridiculous.

    The debates are very dangerous for Johnson. If there's anyone watching who actually reads the Daily Mail the only way for Corbyn will be up.

    But you've said all this before. Many times. It's a great script that some people might enjoy on the doorstep but on here it just seems a bit false. Unfortunately I don't buy that you are a LD and neither do I buy this backstory of growing up in a Tory household.
    Would it shock you to learn I couldn't give a monkey's toss what you do or don't think or believe? I could prove to you all those things very easily but you're not worth it.

    To everyone else, however, I will say this. I try to be objective and see the good in different parties. I'm not a partisan. Some of what the Conservatives have brought to the table in recent years has been excellent, although much hasn't. I don't believe in Brexit but that doesn't mean I think the EU is perfect.

    What gets my goat is the way the right-wing media lampoon Corbyn and Labour when they're actually making all the running with some great ideas. Not all. Some of them are wild.

    Most of all, though, like most posters on here I see through Boris Johnson and loathe him. He's a shyster and a crook.
    Why would the right wing media lampooning a far left communist and terrorist sympathiser like Corbyn get your goat? Isn't that what they are for?
    I think "Mystic" Rose is getting through to the wrong sort of Labour voters.

    Dead ones.
    Bit Ad Hominem, MM

    Let's lay off the personal stuff, the partisan, and discuss the politics.

    I like the way Labour are producing all the ideas. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard a single one from the tories. Except 'Get Brexit Done' which Deborah Meaden has just demolished.
  • What's the backstory on why Britain hasn't already got broadband in the first place? I mean, the poles are already there, they just have to run fiber along them, no? If they can't manage this how did the British ever manage to get telephones?

    I think there's been a lot of mismanagement. Cable & Wireless went bust a couple of times after spending a lot of money on infrastructure which would have put other people off. BT Openreach are in a strange quasi-monopoly position where they're expected to invest the vast sums of money building a network, but what they charge other providers to use that network is regulated, which seems to have destroyed the business case for borrowing to build faster. Also, dragging their feet has elicited money from the government to pay for it directly.

    So there's a case for government intervention to do something differently, but Labour's new policy overeggs it by going for free broadband, and then they have a credibility problem because Corbyn isn't able to manage his own party - how is he going to manage free fibre broadband on top of saving the NHS and all the other radical promises?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    The snowflakes might have to get off their arses and learn how to walk to shops to purchase something, if of course there are any shops left!

    The Nasty Party are up and about early today.

    Sigh.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,037
    Anecdotal evidence from Wimbledon where I live is that the Labour vote here is collapsing and coalescing around the Lib Dems.

    Whether it's enough to unseat an unpopular Stephen Hammond, time will tell but it's still game on here.

    Nationally, things look very grim for Labour.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    Watching Corbyn on the box last night my wife remarked that at least he sounded calm and reasonable, unlike Johnson who either bumbles or shouts slogans.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    What I’d be tempted to do is to review the crown jewels list of sporting events. Home test matches, some champions league and 32 Premier League games would seem reasonable additions.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    Twat. Every one who has spent time with a toddler knows that song. On the recent #peoplesvote March the crowd happily sang a parody of that song. "The lies on the bus go round and round..."

    I remember a Johnson anecdote from when he was still married some years ago. His wife was struggling valiently to keep order with 4 young children in a pizza restaurant. BoZo was reading his paper and ignoring the chaos. He hasn't changed.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2019
    Wow. The LibDems are going to do extremely well in this election. I am picking up some very good vibes in key southern marginals.

    That's all I shall say on it for now :smile:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    murali_s said:

    Anecdotal evidence from Wimbledon where I live is that the Labour vote here is collapsing and coalescing around the Lib Dems.

    Whether it's enough to unseat an unpopular Stephen Hammond, time will tell but it's still game on here.

    Nationally, things look very grim for Labour.

    My brother in Wimbledon has it down as LD gain. Putney too imo.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136
    edited November 2019
    kingbongo said:

    Labour are crazy to be suggesting ideas from the 1840s to solve problems of the 2020s

    As a neoliberal I'd normally agree with you but in Britain's case they built vast amounts of world-leading infrastructure in the 1840s and apparently hardly anything since, so I say let them give it a go.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    What's the backstory on why Britain hasn't already got broadband in the first place? I mean, the poles are already there, they just have to run fiber along them, no? If they can't manage this how did the British ever manage to get telephones?

    I think the problem is that we're getting rid of the Poles, and that's making it harder to deploy broadband.
    Did Labour not Czech they would have a workforce before making this latest pledge?
    Ukraine not be serious?
  • No, shit dad. I am a bloke with only three children, and I know hundreds of verses of the wheels on the bus. I also know how to use a mop and a microwave. I can even change a nappy. Real men know how to do all these things.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Only a matter of time before the Lib Dem’s edge ahead in the polls...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    What's the backstory on why Britain hasn't already got broadband in the first place? I mean, the poles are already there, they just have to run fiber along them, no? If they can't manage this how did the British ever manage to get telephones?

    I think the problem is that we're getting rid of the Poles, and that's making it harder to deploy broadband.
    Did Labour not Czech they would have a workforce before making this latest pledge?
    They don't want to leave the people Hungary
    The will leave no Estonian unturned.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2019
    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    Anecdotal evidence from Wimbledon where I live is that the Labour vote here is collapsing and coalescing around the Lib Dems.
    r.

    My brother in Wimbledon has it down as LD gain. Putney too imo.
    Yep
  • kingbongo said:

    Labour are crazy to be suggesting ideas from the 1840s to solve problems of the 2020s

    As a neoliberal I'd normally agree with you but in Britain's case they apparently built vast amounts of world-leading impressive infrastructure in the 1840s and hardly anything since, so I say let them give it a go.
    Yes, more or less the entire rail network was built in the 1840s.
  • I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?

    Corbyn has -69 favourability. Most people are anti-Corbyn, they might vote Labour but few are voting Corbyn. I appreciate you're on here to ramp him but let's keep things evidence based.
    I'm a LibDem actually but I like the way Labour are the ones with all the ideas.

    Some of the lampooning of Corbyn in the right-wing press is plainly ridiculous.

    The debates are very dangerous for Johnson. If there's anyone watching who actually reads the Daily Mail the only way for Corbyn will be up.

    But you're right, it's Labour that Labour voters will vote for. They may do so through gritted teeth, but they will.

    This has been another rubbish campaign by the tories. 9 years in office and they are tired, bereft of any ideas and they only have one drum to beat. I am increasingly sensing it won't be enough to get them over the line.
    But you've said all this before. Many times. It's a great script that some people might enjoy on the doorstep but on here it just seems a bit false. Unfortunately I don't buy that you are a LD and neither do I buy this backstory of growing up in a Tory household.
    Nor me.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684
    alex. said:

    Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.

    Free computers as well? After all, the former is pretty useless without the latter...
    Aww bless.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    At the moment doesn’t BT have a

    alex. said:

    Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.

    Free computers as well? After all, the former is pretty useless without the latter...
    Broadband serves multiple devices, not only computers. Think of it as a free state service. How you tap into it will then be up to you.

    I've often thought it should be free. It will foster productivity and therefore for you capitalist-minded types, a great boon to the economy.
    And whichever device you use to tap into it, you still have to pay for it, right? So you are still retaining barriers to its use? What is the purpose of making it free? Who pays for the maintenance and future investment in the network if it’s all free? The general taxpayer? What happens when super super super fastplanitum diamond broadband comes along? Does the taxpayer pay for that? Because we’d be falling behind otherwise, right? Just imagine if a Govt had decided this policy should have been introduced in the early days of the internet? We’d be still plodding along at minute internet speeds and miles behind where we are today.

    The economic issue is not about broadband (basic, fast, super fast...) being free, it is about coverage/accessibility. Govt has a potential subsidy role in ensuring it reaches areas of the country that will not be delivered by the private sector (because they will not get a return on their investment). But once the coverage is available it should be the users who pay for its general upkeep and improvement. It’s just madness the whole thing. It’s not remotely “capitalist” to say so.

  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Foxy said:

    Twat. Every one who has spent time with a toddler knows that song. On the recent #peoplesvote March the crowd happily sang a parody of that song. "The lies on the bus go round and round..."

    I remember a Johnson anecdote from when he was still married some years ago. His wife was struggling valiently to keep order with 4 young children in a pizza restaurant. BoZo was reading his paper and ignoring the chaos. He hasn't changed.
    It ought to go viral because it does say an awful lot about him. It's just amazing the number of people who have yet to see through the magician's sleight of hand.

    I mean, what kind of parent doesn't know the words to the Wheels on the Bus?

    He's a shyster and a crook.
  • In Scotland this election is relatively simple.

    Vote SCon if you believe in a United kingdom
    Vote SNP if you believe in an Independent Scotland part of the United States of Europe
    Vote SLib if you believe in revoking article 50

    Vote SLAB if you want to waste your vote!
  • Good morning, everyone.

    F1: checked the forecast a few days ago and rain seemed possible for first practice. I'll give that another look when I have a chance, but could be opportunity there.
  • I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?

    Corbyn has -69 favourability. Most people are anti-Corbyn, they might vote Labour but few are voting Corbyn. I appreciate you're on here to ramp him but let's keep things evidence based.
    I'm a LibDem actually but I like the way Labour are the ones with all the ideas.

    Some of the lampooning of Corbyn in the right-wing press is plainly ridiculous.

    The debates are very dangerous for Johnson. If there's anyone watching who actually reads the Daily Mail the only way for Corbyn will be up.

    But you're right, it's Labour that Labour voters will vote for. They may do so through gritted teeth, but they will.

    This has been another rubbish campaign by the tories. 9 years in office and they are tired, bereft of any ideas and they only have one drum to beat. I am increasingly sensing it won't be enough to get them over the line.
    But you've said all this before. Many times. It's a great script that some people might enjoy on the doorstep but on here it just seems a bit false. Unfortunately I don't buy that you are a LD and neither do I buy this backstory of growing up in a Tory household.
    It’s hilarious.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    rcs1000 said:

    "Swinson has the the largest number, 33%, saying don’t know and that should get smaller during the campaign."

    Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that ... millions of voters are likely to be confused, perplexed, angry even that a so-called democratic and liberal party have denied what it says on the can by promising to revoke Article 50, just like that, without even so much as a second referendum, offering a leave option which was voted for by a majority, totalling in excess of 17 million.
    Nothing very democratic or liberal about that, which probably largely explains the sharp decline in the party's fortunes over the past few weeks and why the likes of the spread-betting firms have chopped their prices for LD seats by around 25% from the high forties then to the mid thirties now ... shame really, it was looking so positive for them just a few weeks ago.

    I think that - even if Jo Swinson had not made her foolish and undemocratic pledge - then the LibDem seat markets would have declined. Simply, the mid-40s number was always absurd.

    Indeed, anything above around 31-32 is incredibly difficult for the LDs, unless there is a major shift from Labour.
    You can still back under 38.5 libdem seats at 5/6 with betvictor. I'm on.
    At the start of the campaign, I forecast 21 seats for the LDs. I've raised it to 23-25, but I'd be surprised if it went any higher*.

    That BetVictor number is a steal. Pile on.

    * All forecasts are subject to revision. I reserve the right to only quote the most accurate forecast in post-election posts.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981



    Bit Ad Hominem, MM

    Let's lay off the personal stuff, the partisan, and discuss the politics.

    I like the way Labour are producing all the ideas. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard a single one from the tories. Except 'Get Brexit Done' which Deborah Meaden has just demolished.

    Hahahahaha

    This is not fertile ground for you, because the people dim enough to be taken in by you are the most entrenched ones. Is astroturfing like being a PPC and if you make a good enough fist of it here you get a plum gig like mumsnet next time round?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Just had a scary thought on how Labour could nationalise large parts of the traditional economy quickly and in a way that could be sold politically

    “It’s unacceptable that companies are not funding pensions appropriately. They are welshing on their obligations to look after the oldest and poorest among us.”

    Solution: government will take on all pension liabilities for private sector companies. They will receive all assets backing these schemes. Any unfunded liabilities will be valued on a insurance buyout basis (which usually makes the liability appear much larger than it will be). Companies will pay the government for taking on these liabilities by the issuance of new shares at the current share price (with an adjustment mechanism so additional shares are issued if the price falls in the next 12 months.

    Result:

    - government takes on huge liability but this will he paid out over time
    - They get all the assets in corporate pensions schemes (lots of equities)
    - They get to buy in the companies based on a depressed share price with the largest possible liability defined
    - Sell it as “protecting pensioners from the likes of Philip Green”
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    rcs1000 said:

    "Swinson has the the largest number, 33%, saying don’t know and that should get smaller during the campaign."

    Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that ... millions of voters are likely to be confused, perplexed, angry even that a so-called democratic and liberal party have denied what it says on the can by promising to revoke Article 50, just like that, without even so much as a second referendum, offering a leave option which was voted for by a majority, totalling in excess of 17 million.
    Nothing very democratic or liberal about that, which probably largely explains the sharp decline in the party's fortunes over the past few weeks and why the likes of the spread-betting firms have chopped their prices for LD seats by around 25% from the high forties then to the mid thirties now ... shame really, it was looking so positive for them just a few weeks ago.

    I think that - even if Jo Swinson had not made her foolish and undemocratic pledge - then the LibDem seat markets would have declined. Simply, the mid-40s number was always absurd.

    Indeed, anything above around 31-32 is incredibly difficult for the LDs, unless there is a major shift from Labour.
    I too thought the LibDem seat markets in the 40s were too high. I have them at 34 at the moment.

    As a LibDem, I'd prefer a major shift to Labour and a reduction in LibDem seats to an overall majority for Johnson. It is more important to stop Brexit than maximise LibDem seats.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771
    kingbongo said:

    I'm loving this election watching from afar - my 19 y.o son is going to drive himself 100 miles just to vote Lib Dem which I am proud of him for - I don't know the mood of the country at all but from the Danish coverage it doesn't feel like 2017.

    Oh, and we have one of the most digitised societies going and yet somehow nobody here thinks the government should own and run the broadband - last week's political satire programme had a bit on what a government designed iPad would look like (statsPad), after a politician suggested taking on the Big Tech guys with state sponsored tech development - Labour are crazy to be suggesting ideas from the 1840s to solve problems of the 2020s but more such ideas should help prevent any risk of Corbyn being PM so have at it Labour.

    I can point you to YouTube videos that show you how to remove the spark plugs if that helps. Young people soon give up if faced with minor obstacles.
  • Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.

    Why is this a good idea?

    Firstly, it won't be "free". We'll still pay, but through taxes rather than bills.

    Secondly, what about people who don't want the allegedly free package? What if they want a more basic service (as they don't stream videos etc - just use email) or do not want it at all?

    Thirdly, what do businesses do? The plan is presumably for households, but do businesses requiring dedicated, high capacity services also go via this nationalised business, and how does the pricing work?

    Fourthly, the cost high speed broadband to the final couple of percent in very rural, hard to reach areas is astronomical. Is it really worth it? To a large extent, living in those areas is a choice - the broadband isn't as good, but there are other benefits and a lot of people just don't care about video streaming.

    Fifthly, what evidence is there that the Government would run this more effectively than the private sector, that they'd be quicker at rolling out infrastructure or fixing faults?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    Looking strategically Labour is dominating this campaign, and Brexit is barely being mentioned, even on Brexit obsessed PB. We have had threads where the B word has barely been mentioned.

    When the Tories chuck a dead cat on the table, Labour chuck on a dead Lion. They are bonkers yet genius.

    I think LDs are doing well by looking the only grown ups in the room, and that is playing well particularly in Southern Remania.

    Anecdata of the day. Posh County-set lady in her sixties in my clinic yesterday, I booked a follow up appointment in the Spring. Her spontaneous response: " If we have an NHS after Brexit..."
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2019
    I think some of the Surrey near-marginals are in play. Outside flutters on Guildford and Woking. The latter went very yellow at the European Elections and I know people there who think it's turning LibDem.

    There may be some other tory seats that are vulnerable. I'm not convinced Esher & Walton is totally safe. Even Epsom & Ewell could see a big swing.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    I think some of the Surrey near-marginals are in play. Outside flutters on Guildford and Woking. The latter went very yellow at the European Elections and I know people there who think it's turning LibDem.

    There may be some other tory seats that are vulnerable. I'm not convinced Esher and Walton is totally safe.

    Cmon. You need to under-promise and over-deliver!
  • I see the anti-Corbynites are out in force on here this morning :smiley:

    Labour are making all the running in this election campaign. I was chatting to someone last night who reckons the mood in the country is turning against the Conservatives.

    I didn't watch BBCQT but apparently Cleverly was taken down by a pretty feral mood?

    Corbyn has -69 favourability. Most people are anti-Corbyn, they might vote Labour but few are voting Corbyn. I appreciate you're on here to ramp him but let's keep things evidence based.
    I'm a LibDem actually but I like the way Labour are the ones with all the ideas.

    Some of the lampooning of Corbyn in the right-wing press is plainly ridiculous.

    The debates are very dangerous for Johnson. If there's anyone watching who actually reads the Daily Mail the only way for Corbyn will be up.

    But you've said all this before. Many times. It's a great script that some people might enjoy on the doorstep but on here it just seems a bit false. Unfortunately I don't buy that you are a LD and neither do I buy this backstory of growing up in a Tory household.
    Would it shock you to learn I couldn't give a monkey's toss what you do or don't think or believe? I could prove to you all those things very easily but you're not worth it.

    Most of all, though, like most posters on here I see through Boris Johnson and loathe him. He's a shyster and a crook.
    Why would the right wing media lampooning a far left communist and terrorist sympathiser like Corbyn get your goat? Isn't that what they are for?
    I think "Mystic" Rose is getting through to the wrong sort of Labour voters.

    Dead ones.
    Bit Ad Hominem, MM

    Let's lay off the personal stuff, the partisan, and discuss the politics.

    I like the way Labour are producing all the ideas. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard a single one from the tories. Except 'Get Brexit Done' which Deborah Meaden has just demolished.
    You say lay off the partisan and your every word is blind partisanship

    Your posts read like something authored by Aaron Bastani of Novara media

    Any idea you are not a fully paid up member of the Jeremy Corbyn fan club is for the birds
  • alex. said:

    Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.

    Free computers as well? After all, the former is pretty useless without the latter...
    I know you're being sarcastic but yeah, throw in a cheapo android tablet for any house that doesn't already have a computer or smartphone, it won't cost much and you'll save money from being able to deliver more government services purely online.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    malcolmg said:

    During the Labour leadership campaign, Corbyn received heavy support from Scottish Labour. Not many Blairites north of the border after the Jim Murphy rout!

    That Corbyn support has evaporated like snow off a dyke in April. They are all incandescent with rage at how he has handled the key IndyRef2 issue, and less-importantly Brexit. Not only has he been far too sympathetic to both, but he has flip-flopped badly. If a leader is going to make an unpopular decision, they must make it and then stick to their guns, not change the story every time they talk to a journalist.

    This wouldn’t matter so much if Richard Leonard was remotely competent. He isn’t.

    SLab are not in a happy place, and voters sense that.
    Hard to believe it but Leonard seems to be the worst SLAB leader yet, given the competition that is some achievement.
    Ah, I remember the good ol' days when the SNP were fearful about going too hard on Wendy Alexander, because if she was removed and replaced by somebody competent they might have a problem...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.

    It is just bollox, Labour would cock it up and we would end up back to the 70's when you waited up to a year just to get a shared telephone line. How do you think those donkeys will get 20 billion out of Google, facebook, etc. F***ing nutters.
    Your party intends to put them in office though
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    Is Uxbridge still in play? I assume the Conservatives would have done heavy private polling so the chance of it falling must be pretty slim.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Ishmael_Z said:



    Bit Ad Hominem, MM

    Let's lay off the personal stuff, the partisan, and discuss the politics.

    I like the way Labour are producing all the ideas. Do correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard a single one from the tories. Except 'Get Brexit Done' which Deborah Meaden has just demolished.

    Hahahahaha

    This is not fertile ground for you, because the people dim enough to be taken in by you are the most entrenched ones. Is astroturfing like being a PPC and if you make a good enough fist of it here you get a plum gig like mumsnet next time round?
    Somebody with 'Rose' in their handle saying they are not Labour while breathlessly pushing every mad bribe the Labour Party is trying to put forward to shore up their core vote isn't terribly credible.

    And yet such a person is still more credible than Corbyn.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718

    Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.

    Why is this a good idea?

    Firstly, it won't be "free". We'll still pay, but through taxes rather than bills.

    Secondly, what about people who don't want the allegedly free package? What if they want a more basic service (as they don't stream videos etc - just use email) or do not want it at all?

    Thirdly, what do businesses do? The plan is presumably for households, but do businesses requiring dedicated, high capacity services also go via this nationalised business, and how does the pricing work?

    Fourthly, the cost high speed broadband to the final couple of percent in very rural, hard to reach areas is astronomical. Is it really worth it? To a large extent, living in those areas is a choice - the broadband isn't as good, but there are other benefits and a lot of people just don't care about video streaming.

    Fifthly, what evidence is there that the Government would run this more effectively than the private sector, that they'd be quicker at rolling out infrastructure or fixing faults?
    Having posted negatively about it....... quite early in the morning........ I was impressed by the analogy of water and sewage. There are places without mains water and without connections to the sewer system but they are very unusual.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    In Scotland this election is relatively simple.

    Vote SCon if you believe in a United kingdom
    Vote SNP if you believe in an Independent Scotland part of the United States of Europe
    Vote SLib if you believe in revoking article 50

    Vote SLAB if you want to waste your vote!

    Isn't it:

    SCon if you believe in the UK and Brexit
    SNP if you want Scotland to leave the UK
    SLib if you believe in the UK and spend every waking moment hating the very thought of Brexit
    SLab if you believe that for too long government has been the preserve of the talented, and in future there should be equal opportunities irrespective of ability.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    Barnesian said:

    rcs1000 said:

    "Swinson has the the largest number, 33%, saying don’t know and that should get smaller during the campaign."

    Oh, I wouldn't be too sure about that ... millions of voters are likely to be confused, perplexed, angry even that a so-called democratic and liberal party have denied what it says on the can by promising to revoke Article 50, just like that, without even so much as a second referendum, offering a leave option which was voted for by a majority, totalling in excess of 17 million.
    Nothing very democratic or liberal about that, which probably largely explains the sharp decline in the party's fortunes over the past few weeks and why the likes of the spread-betting firms have chopped their prices for LD seats by around 25% from the high forties then to the mid thirties now ... shame really, it was looking so positive for them just a few weeks ago.

    I think that - even if Jo Swinson had not made her foolish and undemocratic pledge - then the LibDem seat markets would have declined. Simply, the mid-40s number was always absurd.

    Indeed, anything above around 31-32 is incredibly difficult for the LDs, unless there is a major shift from Labour.
    I too thought the LibDem seat markets in the 40s were too high. I have them at 34 at the moment.

    As a LibDem, I'd prefer a major shift to Labour and a reduction in LibDem seats to an overall majority for Johnson. It is more important to stop Brexit than maximise LibDem seats.
    It would be nice to do both of course. They are not mutually exclusive.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    I think some of the Surrey near-marginals are in play. Outside flutters on Guildford and Woking. The latter went very yellow at the European Elections and I know people there who think it's turning LibDem.

    There may be some other tory seats that are vulnerable. I'm not convinced Esher and Walton is totally safe.

    Cmon. You need to under-promise and over-deliver!
    Who could forget the Tories saying in 2017 that Watson and Skinner were both at risk?

    Good job they haven't made the same mist...ah.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.

    Why is this a good idea?

    Firstly, it won't be "free". We'll still pay, but through taxes rather than bills.

    Secondly, what about people who don't want the allegedly free package? What if they want a more basic service (as they don't stream videos etc - just use email) or do not want it at all?

    Thirdly, what do businesses do? The plan is presumably for households, but do businesses requiring dedicated, high capacity services also go via this nationalised business, and how does the pricing work?

    Fourthly, the cost high speed broadband to the final couple of percent in very rural, hard to reach areas is astronomical. Is it really worth it? To a large extent, living in those areas is a choice - the broadband isn't as good, but there are other benefits and a lot of people just don't care about video streaming.

    Fifthly, what evidence is there that the Government would run this more effectively than the private sector, that they'd be quicker at rolling out infrastructure or fixing faults?
    Having posted negatively about it....... quite early in the morning........ I was impressed by the analogy of water and sewage. There are places without mains water and without connections to the sewer system but they are very unusual.
    There are numerous places without connections to a sewage system, using a septic tank instead. Mains water I will give you.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    Great plan for free broadband for all.

    About time too.

    Why is this a good idea?

    Firstly, it won't be "free". We'll still pay, but through taxes rather than bills.

    Secondly, what about people who don't want the allegedly free package? What if they want a more basic service (as they don't stream videos etc - just use email) or do not want it at all?

    Thirdly, what do businesses do? The plan is presumably for households, but do businesses requiring dedicated, high capacity services also go via this nationalised business, and how does the pricing work?

    Fourthly, the cost high speed broadband to the final couple of percent in very rural, hard to reach areas is astronomical. Is it really worth it? To a large extent, living in those areas is a choice - the broadband isn't as good, but there are other benefits and a lot of people just don't care about video streaming.

    Fifthly, what evidence is there that the Government would run this more effectively than the private sector, that they'd be quicker at rolling out infrastructure or fixing faults?
    What other benefits?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    No, shit dad. I am a bloke with only three children, and I know hundreds of verses of the wheels on the bus. I also know how to use a mop and a microwave. I can even change a nappy. Real men know how to do all these things.
    If you look at the video he does know the words (although he is clearly thinking WTF am I doing this for).

    He doesn’t know / isn’t doing the hand movements
This discussion has been closed.