On topic who knows, if it rains across the UK on election day like it did in South Yorkshire on Thursday then it will become an illegitimate election.
I think this line is nonsense, but what I think doesn’t matter. I can start to see the narrative forming now “the referendum was a cheat and now so is this election; you’ve stolen democracy!” All that followed by lots of ludicrous comparisons with other countries where the election was actually stolen.
I note with amusement that Jezziah is predictably saying literally anything to defend his Master's anti-semitism problem. Even quoting YouGov in his defence. Shall we look at what YouGov says abour Labour's vote share vs 2017?
Say what you like mate, it really doesn't matter. Keep on selecting anti-semite after anti-semite as candidates whilst insisting its all a smear, it really doesn't matter.
I can't call this election's result. But it seems clear that Labour are going to get an absolute beating from the electorate. I despise so much of what the uncaring Tory party have done. But that is nothing compared to the actual considered rational racism exhibited by Corbyn's Labour Party. That it's coming from a Labour Party, a Labour Party which supposedly is a bastion against racism is even more tragic.
So, please, Jezziah. Keep digging. The deeper you dig, the deeper the Labour Party gets buried.
I remember you saying for ages that it was important to stay and fight for the soul of the Labour Party
What was the straw that broke the camel’s back?
(With apologies you @camel for using offensive imagery 😉)
On topic, excellent article. The other factor to consider is potential Conservative and Labour moderate voters just staying at home (being unable to abide the choices and in an election that looks a foregone conclusion). Possibly the impact of the postal strike on postal votes as well.
I hope Boris has considered how valid his mandate will be if he wins a majority of 50 on a voteshare of 35% on a turnout of 59%.
I'm sure Tony Blair never lost sleep over his 66 majority on 35% of the vote on 61% turnout..
So that makes it right? It's no wonder so many people are turning off politics and just leaving it to the tribal supporters of the old duopoly to throw poo at each other.
On topic, excellent article. The other factor to consider is potential Conservative and Labour moderate voters just staying at home (being unable to abide the choices and in an election that looks a foregone conclusion). Possibly the impact of the postal strike on postal votes as well.
I hope Boris has considered how valid his mandate will be if he wins a majority of 50 on a voteshare of 35% on a turnout of 59%.
The question does you credit, but I think he’s likely to adopt the same ‘suck it up, losers’ attitude as Charles.
I am not convinced the campaigns are historically bad.
It is just that social media has made it much more difficult to control the narrative this issue down over a very long period of times & that is major incompetence.
I'm not sure hardened leavers care quite as much about the Tory disgraces as those who are already noisily either in the Labour camp or the anti-Tory remain, even if it means Corbyn one.
A good post with much that can be easily agreed.
It is not a widespread cancer.
Brexit on the other hand......
I agree with you up to a point. For much of the past four years Labour antisemitism has been a niche issue for two reasons - it has only directly affected two types of people - Jews (and non-Jews with strong links to the community) and people in the Labour Party horrified at what has been going on in their name, and that it's not easily explicable. Early on I remember having to try and explain why people found Corbyn's actions deeply troubling even to educated, politically aware friends because it was just not something they had come across or considered. Pre-2015 few outside scholars, Jews, and journalists with an interest in the far-left were au fait with its specific long-running problems with antisemitism and how Corbyn was a central figure in them.
But I think it now has real cut through, especially since Panorama, as a prime example of why Corbyn is a distasteful figure to many and unfit for office. As LotO you have few 'executive tests' - by and large you're not in charge of anything that important you can screw-up so badly that it causes harm or scandal. Antisemitism has been one - which whether or not people fully understand the issue - they see a Labour leader who is at best ineffective and dishonest, and in thrall to the kind of people who are a massive turn off. It does more to show up Corbyn as a far-left ogre than any amount of Tory frothing about Stalin. It's a test even some of his defenders believe he has failed.
That arguably, too, has an impact on Brexit. Corbyn's big problem on that is lack of trust from people who should naturally slip into the Labour remain column as they did in 2017 (among whom I'd normally include myself). Anything that shows him and the party up as less than trustworthy and a potential disaster in government makes people who dislike Corbyn and dislike Brexit, less likely to make a devil's bargain.
And unlike the Tories, who don't need every Farage-curious person to exalt in Boris to win, Labour needs not just some of those people back, but almost all of them.
Turnout is a straw I'm clutching. I think Remainers are more likely to vote than Leavers and this - if allied to smart tactical voting - could mitigate the Tory majority, perhaps even stop it.
Also re previous header, yes, spot on about the Benn Act. It was an error. I don't think No Deal was happening anyway - and nor will it on 31 Dec 2020 - and so all the Benn Act did was let Johnson off the hook and allow him to create his desired GE narrative.
On topic who knows, if it rains across the UK on election day like it did in South Yorkshire on Thursday then it will become an illegitimate election.
I think this line is nonsense, but what I think doesn’t matter. I can start to see the narrative forming now “the referendum was a cheat and now so is this election; you’ve stolen democracy!” All that followed by lots of ludicrous comparisons with other countries where the election was actually stolen.
Sigh....
But what DOES happen if polling stations are flooded out or cannot be set up? If last Thursday had been election day, what would have happened in Sheffield and other other areas similarly affected.
If you want a European for a neighbour vote Labour
Indeed, that's the Tory campaign message and I don't agree with the smiley. "Australian-style points system" is code. Japan and both Korean governments have strict immigration policies too, but no - it's always Australia that gets mentioned.
Because its the single biggest recipient of the British diaspora? More Brits there than in the whole of the EU.....
Nope. With or without its White Australia policy, it's emblematic of the "Old" Commonwealth and of "whites first". White British emigration to Australia is tied up in many minds with non-white immigration to the country that said white British emigrants departed from. I have met several British people who have considered emigrating to Australia or New Zealand, or who have done so, and in every case when describing their reasons they have described the Britain they once loved as a hellhole which has come to have an ethnic mix with which they are unhappy, and not only that but they also believe there is a dynamic in Britain towards...well, towards the future that Enoch Powell famously warned against.
It's an unpleasant topic I know, but Powellites exist and they love referring to Australia. They'd refer to Rhodesia too if they could get away with it.
On topic, excellent article. The other factor to consider is potential Conservative and Labour moderate voters just staying at home (being unable to abide the choices and in an election that looks a foregone conclusion). Possibly the impact of the postal strike on postal votes as well.
I hope Boris has considered how valid his mandate will be if he wins a majority of 50 on a voteshare of 35% on a turnout of 59%.
I'm sure Tony Blair never lost sleep over his 66 majority on 35% of the vote on 61% turnout..
No, but it plagued him throughout his third term. And he wasn't trying to push through anything as radical and divisive as Brexit whatever you think of it.
Are you having a giraffe? Only the continued occupation and submission of a sovereign nation that he had “preemptively” invaded two years previously.
'Far left scum' is not only offensive it's also an ugly use of language. I think you should apologise. I blame Boris Johnson. 'Get Brexit Done' was a bad example to set and though similar it has nothing of the dynamism and fluidity of 'Just Do It'
Very sensitive of you so early in the morning....
I sense a semi kindred spirit who finds it difficult to take it all too seriously. I remember when the chant from the away end at White Hart Lane was 'I'd rather be a Paki than a Yid'. It doesn't feel ike it was that long ago. Now we're all much more delicate flowers.
That arguably, too, has an impact on Brexit. Corbyn's big problem on that is lack of trust from people who should naturally slip into the Labour remain column as they did in 2017 (among whom I'd normally include myself). Anything that shows him and the party up as less than trustworthy and a potential disaster in government makes people who dislike Corbyn and dislike Brexit, less likely to make a devil's bargain.
And unlike the Tories, who don't need every Farage-curious person to exalt in Boris to win, Labour needs not just some of those people back, but almost all of them.
I'd like to thank you for your nuanced and thoughtful posts, which are much more compelling reading than Gabs2's rants (which are simply counter-productive). I don't entirely agree with you - I think that you underestimate just what a minefield it is for disciplinary committees to wade through the details of any complaint without legal challenge, and the extent to which the party leader ought to be involved in that. But I think you're broadly right about the failure of leadership on this - as I think you implied in your earlier post, sympathy for the Palestinians has got in the way of dealing with borderline anti-Israel complaints as we would with other kinds of dodgy comment.
For me, the conviction that nobody in the leadership is actually in the least anti-semitic is sufficient to class it as a mistake rather than a deal-breaker. But you've helped me understand why others might feel differently. Thank you.
What is it about Jews that drives some people mad?
I think the "chosen people" thing is at the heart of some of it. And also in the mix, Israel's behaviour, and a feeling that the Jewish community have more clout in several important fields than their numbers would lead one to expect, and related to this a feeling that their concerns are given more weight than those of other groups. So it's a cocktail of resentment, jealousy, suspicion, anger and contempt.
'Far left scum' is not only offensive it's also an ugly use of language. I think you should apologise. I blame Boris Johnson. 'Get Brexit Done' was a bad example to set and though similar it has nothing of the dynamism and fluidity of 'Just Do It'
Very sensitive of you so early in the morning....
I sense a semi kindred spirit who finds it difficult to take it all too seriously. I remember when the chant from the away end at White Hart Lane was 'I'd rather be a Paki than a Yid'. It doesn't feel ike it was that long ago. Now we're all much more delicate flowers.
I suppose the opponents were the Hammers and sung to the tune of Simon and Garfunkel's hit?
What is it about Jews that drives some people mad?
I think the "chosen people" thing is at the heart of some of it. And also in the mix, Israel's behaviour, and a feeling that the Jewish community have more clout in several important fields than their numbers would lead one to expect, and related to this a feeling that their concerns are given more weight than those of other groups. So it's a cocktail of resentment, jealousy, suspicion, anger and contempt.
You're just moving the question there. Why do my Jewish friends, who have nothing to do with Israel, get judged on Israel's behaviour?
Who is the “white supremacy fangirl” she says is a #10 advisor?
Elsewhere.in the rant she mentions Chloe Westley as the person. Never heard her so no idea if this is a fair description. Based on the rest of the ravings I would suspect not.
Nor me
Google threw this up. She seems a rather run of the mill identikit young staffer does not sure why she is being picked on.
Who is the “white supremacy fangirl” she says is a #10 advisor?
Elsewhere.in the rant she mentions Chloe Westley as the person. Never heard her so no idea if this is a fair description. Based on the rest of the ravings I would suspect not.
She thinks Anne-Marie Waters is a hero.
According to HuffPo she had no idea what some of AMW’s views were (neither do I) and was horrified when told.
(I find that plausible as a good friend of mine voted BNP in Tower Hamlets some 20 years ago - he was protesting against the corruption in the council and had no idea that the BNP was as nasty as they are.)
The much talked of ‘Labour Leavers’ appears already to be with the BXP. Plenty of Tory remainers there, still.
The Lib Dems need to squeeze the Tory Remain vote, but they probably need Labour to be doing a bit worse before people feel free to risk it.
But they never will risk it, not while Corbyn is Labour leader. The shock of that 2017 exit poll is a huge asset for the Tories. The idea that "well, he can't get in" so it is safe to vote LibDem for Remainers/Brexit for Leavers has been knocked out of play in 2019.
Nonsense. YouGov had Lib Dems in second place in SE and SW England. Corbyn is not the alternative to BoZo, the yellow peril are.
Spoiler: Jo Swinson will not be PM. The LibDems are a self-important and frankly ridiculous sideshow regarding who will be the occupant of Number 10 on December 13th.
I see that Mr Mark is still carrying out his orders from Tory HQ. Belittle Jo Swinson and the Lib Dems in whatever way you can dream up. She - and they - are far more credible that the burbling incompetent the Tories have fronting their campaign.
On topic, excellent article. The other factor to consider is potential Conservative and Labour moderate voters just staying at home (being unable to abide the choices and in an election that looks a foregone conclusion). Possibly the impact of the postal strike on postal votes as well.
I hope Boris has considered how valid his mandate will be if he wins a majority of 50 on a voteshare of 35% on a turnout of 59%.
The question does you credit, but I think he’s likely to adopt the same ‘suck it up, losers’ attitude as Charles.
That’s a misrepresentation of what I said
I said the mandate would be valid - a binary test.
I don’t say anything b about how he should utilise that mandate, which (IMV) should be the government for the whole nation
Two things get brought up by voters on the doorstep, unprompted, time after time.
We must Brexit.
We must stop Jeremy Corbyn from getting to 10 Downing Street.
These two twin drivers will get them to the polling stations, whatever the conditions.
Ridding parliament of those members who blocked Brexit is very strong in Cumbria - there is little time on the doorstep for either Rory Stewart or Tim Farron.
Since Rory Stewart is not standing again (and, btw, repeatedly voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and urged his fellow MPs to do the same - so you must have an odd definition of “blocking Brexit”) I am surprised his name comes up on the doorstep at all.
Farron’s constituency used to be Tory for years before he took it. It would not be that surprising if it reverted Tory.
What is it about Jews that drives some people mad?
Same thing that drives people mad when it comes to Muslims/LBTQI+/The EU.
I've never seen it claimed that Muslims/LBTQI+/The EU rule the world have you?
No, different groups have different bigoted memes aimed at them. I've seen it earnestly said that Muslims are paedophiles and have bombs under their turbans, that there is a gay agenda controlling the media, and that the EU is continuation of Hitler's policies. It's all basically the same old shit.
You're just moving the question there. Why do my Jewish friends, who have nothing to do with Israel, get judged on Israel's behaviour?
It was just my answer to the question @Sean_F asked.
Re your question -
I think because Israel is the iconic Jewish state where almost all of the world's Jews who don't live in America live it makes it easy for less thoughtful types to conflate the country with the race/religion.
I must say I'm starting to come round to @AlastairMeeks view of Fraser Nelson.
He's written what must be the mostly deeply cynical leader for The Spectator this week that I've ever seen. It argues for an amnesty for all illegal immigrants here (over 1.2 million it estimates via the Home Office) and a ten-year qualification period for future amnesties going forwards.
Now, regardless of what you think of this (disclosure: I think it's simplistic and naive, will encourage further illegal migration and will be totally at odds with his readership) he openly admits that Boris needs to sound tough on migration right now and 'quietly bury his support for an amnesty'. But he then argues Boris thinks that anyway and he should slip it in the manifesto and implement the policy regardless. It mentions his personal brand of liberal Conservatism, the time he first made the case for an amnesty as editor of the Spectator in 2001 and then refers to the version of Brexit he argued for in the Leave campaign.
This is completely disingenuous. Fraser knows full well that Leave won the campaign because people expected Leaving the EU would allow the UK to implement further migration controls and end free movement, thus reducing immigration and addressing their concerns. Something Theresa May understood.
However, there seem to be a remarkable number of Tory Leavers, or Leave advocates now (Fraser claims to have voted Remain) who all move in the same circles who feel totally unconstrained by this. They are totally dismissive of the concerns of the pawns who gave them the result they wanted on the basis of the campaign they ran, and perfectly comfortable with interpreting the mandate for whatever policy they want (usually based on wholesale deregulation, liberal immigration, and a single-minded obsession with pursuing a US trade deal - any trade deal).
It's boiled my piss. And I hate being made to look foolish by those I've previously defended.
It is a point I have repeatedly made in recent thread headers and below the line comments - that the Tories apparent policy preferences are largely at odds with the desires of those pro-Brexit voters whose votes they are chasing. The big risk for the Tories is that they win the election and then find themselves hoist by the incompatibility between what Brexit voters expect and what the Tories then do.
It would appear that consideration of weather disruption to the election has only been about delays to the count. Representations have already been made by the ERO covering Shetland and Orkney about what happens if boxes cannot be flown into the central count from the outlying islands.
As far as members of the public being unable to vote, the only information I can find in a quick trawl round the Electoral Commission's website is a risk register for the 2011 AV referendum. This appears to be a standard corporate tick boxing/arse covering exercise . It advises that if the Presiding Officer is unable to gain access, they should set up a temporary operation outside the polling station. Visions of officials sat round a table as flood waters swirl round their feet....
The heading of public unable to cast their votes only covers the situations of queues at the polling station and not enough ballot papers.
So it seems that as long as there are some votes to be counted, you can declare a result.
My prediction for December 12th is severe weather in Northern Lab/Con marginals affecting people's ability to reach their polling station. This will lead to controversial results in several marginal seats (cf Newcastle Under Lyne result in 2017) and against a background of a hung parliament. There will be a huge row, the only result of which will be the resignation of the Head of the Electoral Commission.
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
Have to say I'm with you on this one Rog, some raucous slightly un-PC goings on in a battle bus. The horror.
A shadow cabinet minister should know better
And in what way is signing “Hey Jew” vs “Hey Jude” actually funny?
Actually it is now featuring on the news as the mp's plaintiff cry goes up, why now just on an election.
I would just like to say I am not firing on all cylinders at present and may not be able to post as often as I would like but hopefully it will not be for long
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
About which Seamus Milne penned wistful articles about the DDR's wonderful social policies.
Must be English irony.
My knowledge of Milne stops at the point his father got shafted by Thatcher. Because of that i've always had a soft spot for him but have never followed hs politics. Oh and he looks like Strelnikov in Dr Zhivago
It is a point I have repeatedly made in recent thread headers and below the line comments - that the Tories apparent policy preferences are largely at odds with the desires of those pro-Brexit voters whose votes they are chasing. The big risk for the Tories is that they win the election and then find themselves hoist by the incompatibility between what Brexit voters expect and what the Tories then do.
It's a fascinating disconnect, this. Brexit is a project of the Tory Right facilitated by the votes of people whose interests the Tory Right have little regard for.
I also find the following question interesting to ponder -
Have the Tory Right delivered Brexit or has Brexit delivered the Tory Right?
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
Have to say I'm with you on this one Rog, some raucous slightly un-PC goings on in a battle bus. The horror.
A shadow cabinet minister should know better
And in what way is signing “Hey Jew” vs “Hey Jude” actually funny?
Actually it is now featuring on the news as the mp's plaintiff cry goes up, why now just on an election.
I would just like to say I am not firing on all cylinders at present and may not be able to post as often as I would like but hopefully it will not be for long
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
About which Seamus Milne penned wistful articles about the DDR's wonderful social policies.
Must be English irony.
My knowledge of Milne stops at the point his father got shafted by Thatcher. Because of that i've always had a soft spot for him but have never followed hs politics. Oh and he looks like Strelnikov in Dr Zhivago
Milne is a dangerous apologist for Putin. That's all you need to know. He's should be nowhere near the levers of power. Exactly the same as Cummings.
The British General Election of 1923, was held on December 9th. Had a 71.1% turnout.
Called by a new Conservative Prime Minister who wanted a mandate for his economic policy of of protectionism. However The Tories lost seats to Labour and The Liberals. A minority Labour Ministry was formed.
Who is the “white supremacy fangirl” she says is a #10 advisor?
Elsewhere.in the rant she mentions Chloe Westley as the person. Never heard her so no idea if this is a fair description. Based on the rest of the ravings I would suspect not.
She thinks Anne-Marie Waters is a hero.
According to HuffPo she had no idea what some of AMW’s views were (neither do I) and was horrified when told.
(I find that plausible as a good friend of mine voted BNP in Tower Hamlets some 20 years ago - he was protesting against the corruption in the council and had no idea that the BNP was as nasty as they are.)
She thought AMW was a hero and wanted her work published, but had no idea what some of her views were? What a moron.
It is a point I have repeatedly made in recent thread headers and below the line comments - that the Tories apparent policy preferences are largely at odds with the desires of those pro-Brexit voters whose votes they are chasing. The big risk for the Tories is that they win the election and then find themselves hoist by the incompatibility between what Brexit voters expect and what the Tories then do.
It's a fascinating disconnect, this. Brexit is a project of the Tory Right facilitated by the votes of people whose interests the Tory Right have little regard for.
I also find the following question interesting to ponder -
Have the Tory Right delivered Brexit or has Brexit delivered the Tory Right?
It isn't really a disconnect. Brexit will end membership of the EU, which entails free movement. It will be for elected governments to decide on the best immigration policies, now that they will be free to do so. Brexit is leaving the EU, not a programme for government.
It is a point I have repeatedly made in recent thread headers and below the line comments - that the Tories apparent policy preferences are largely at odds with the desires of those pro-Brexit voters whose votes they are chasing. The big risk for the Tories is that they win the election and then find themselves hoist by the incompatibility between what Brexit voters expect and what the Tories then do.
It's a fascinating disconnect, this. Brexit is a project of the Tory Right facilitated by the votes of people whose interests the Tory Right have little regard for.
I also find the following question interesting to ponder -
Have the Tory Right delivered Brexit or has Brexit delivered the Tory Right?
Definitely the latter. Brexit has enabled the Tory wing of the Conservative party to take control, which is bad news for all of us. Brexit was driven by a multitude of forces, Toryism being only one of them.
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
Have to say I'm with you on this one Rog, some raucous slightly un-PC goings on in a battle bus. The horror.
It’s taken them a while to be bussed over this.
That said, singing racist songs in front of a reporter is a sin of terminal stupidity. Not that anyone would necessarily expect more from the egregious Carden.
Edit: I meant ‘sign of terminal stupidity,’ but I like the typo better so I’m leaving it.
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
Have to say I'm with you on this one Rog, some raucous slightly un-PC goings on in a battle bus. The horror.
A shadow cabinet minister should know better
And in what way is signing “Hey Jew” vs “Hey Jude” actually funny?
Actually it is now featuring on the news as the mp's plaintiff cry goes up, why now just on an election.
I would just like to say I am not firing on all cylinders at present and may not be able to post as often as I would like but hopefully it will not be for long
I think the expression is 'play nicely friends'
I am sure you will come back with renewed vigour and enthusiasm given a wee recharge. As for playing nicely...
The much talked of ‘Labour Leavers’ appears already to be with the BXP. Plenty of Tory remainers there, still.
The Lib Dems need to squeeze the Tory Remain vote, but they probably need Labour to be doing a bit worse before people feel free to risk it.
But they never will risk it, not while Corbyn is Labour leader. The shock of that 2017 exit poll is a huge asset for the Tories. The idea that "well, he can't get in" so it is safe to vote LibDem for Remainers/Brexit for Leavers has been knocked out of play in 2019.
Nonsense. YouGov had Lib Dems in second place in SE and SW England. Corbyn is not the alternative to BoZo, the yellow peril are.
Spoiler: Jo Swinson will not be PM. The LibDems are a self-important and frankly ridiculous sideshow regarding who will be the occupant of Number 10 on December 13th.
I see that Mr Mark is still carrying out his orders from Tory HQ. Belittle Jo Swinson and the Lib Dems in whatever way you can dream up. She - and they - are far more credible that the burbling incompetent the Tories have fronting their campaign.
I take no political orders from anyone. But let's face it, it is so easy to belittle Jo Swinson.
The British General Election of 1923, was held on December 9th. Had a 71.1% turnout.
Called by a new Conservative Prime Minister who wanted a mandate for his economic policy of of protectionism. However The Tories lost seats to Labour and The Liberals. A minority Labour Ministry was formed.
Pedant hat ON
It was a Unionist prime minister. The Unionists did not readopt the name Conservative until 1925, and even then some of their MPs refused to use it (e.g. Neville Chamberlain).
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
About which Seamus Milne penned wistful articles about the DDR's wonderful social policies.
Must be English irony.
My knowledge of Milne stops at the point his father got shafted by Thatcher. Because of that i've always had a soft spot for him but have never followed hs politics. Oh and he looks like Strelnikov in Dr Zhivago
Milne is a dangerous apologist for Putin. That's all you need to know. He's should be nowhere near the levers of power. Exactly the same as Cummings.
When has Cummings ever supported communist regimes, anti western terrorists and 1 of the 3 worst mass murderers in history?
Hmm, I dunno, I mean people should stay away from anything that looks like a threat of violence especially in the current climate, but that's not really what that meme is about... OTOH the crying face makes it slightly more disturbing than it should be...
It's not what the meme is about but if politicians mean what they say about being careful with language and tone etc it means being stricter about anything which involves implied violence.
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
If I'm understanding correctly this was a Labour Party beano to Cheltenham Races, so presumably the other people on the bus were Labour people. It isn't in the news because some journo poured through years of public internet postings, it's in the news because another Labour person on the bus went to the press about it 20 months later in the middle of an election campaign. Carden and McGinn are from different wings of the party as well. All very peculiar.
Milne is a dangerous apologist for Putin. That's all you need to know. He's should be nowhere near the levers of power. Exactly the same as Cummings.
To me, it is clear enough why Putin - strong man, ultra conservative, white nationalist, racist, reactionary - stimulates the erogenous zones of Alt Right types, but I cannot understand why someone on the Left would be supportive of him.
It would appear that consideration of weather disruption to the election has only been about delays to the count. Representations have already been made by the ERO covering Shetland and Orkney about what happens if boxes cannot be flown into the central count from the outlying islands.
As far as members of the public being unable to vote, the only information I can find in a quick trawl round the Electoral Commission's website is a risk register for the 2011 AV referendum. This appears to be a standard corporate tick boxing/arse covering exercise . It advises that if the Presiding Officer is unable to gain access, they should set up a temporary operation outside the polling station. Visions of officials sat round a table as flood waters swirl round their feet....
The heading of public unable to cast their votes only covers the situations of queues at the polling station and not enough ballot papers.
So it seems that as long as there are some votes to be counted, you can declare a result.
My prediction for December 12th is severe weather in Northern Lab/Con marginals affecting people's ability to reach their polling station. This will lead to controversial results in several marginal seats (cf Newcastle Under Lyne result in 2017) and against a background of a hung parliament. There will be a huge row, the only result of which will be the resignation of the Head of the Electoral Commission.
You read it here first!
It would certainly add to the gaiety of the nation.
But it's worth pointing out that flooding can occur anywhere, any day of the year. It's slightly less likely in the summer because the ground will probably be drier and more absorbent, but there have been plenty of recent summer floods to show this is not a foolproof assumption. The location of a flood is extremely unpredictable because it will most likely be caused by a weather system getting stalled over a river basin - and that could be anywhere from Boscastle to Cumbria to Lewes to Tewkesbury to Leamington to St Asaph to Sedgemoor to Hull to Sheffield and Doncaster, with apologies for any accidental omissions. Over-development on flood plains, confluences, spring tides and estuaries obviously complicate the picture.
He just said that she has a particular view and others disagree!
That doesn’t seem an unreasonable comment to make!
Given Warsi takes the MCB line, refuting anything she says is the obvious and sensible thing to do
Am I hearing you right? Islamophobia is ok because you don't like the MCB? Is that any different from someone saying that antisemitism is ok because Israel is bad?
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
About which Seamus Milne penned wistful articles about the DDR's wonderful social policies.
Must be English irony.
My knowledge of Milne stops at the point his father got shafted by Thatcher. Because of that i've always had a soft spot for him but have never followed hs politics. Oh and he looks like Strelnikov in Dr Zhivago
Milne is a dangerous apologist for Putin. That's all you need to know. He's should be nowhere near the levers of power. Exactly the same as Cummings.
The phrase 'that's all you need to know' should always be treated with circumspection.
It would appear that consideration of weather disruption to the election has only been about delays to the count. Representations have already been made by the ERO covering Shetland and Orkney about what happens if boxes cannot be flown into the central count from the outlying islands.
As far as members of the public being unable to vote, the only information I can find in a quick trawl round the Electoral Commission's website is a risk register for the 2011 AV referendum. This appears to be a standard corporate tick boxing/arse covering exercise . It advises that if the Presiding Officer is unable to gain access, they should set up a temporary operation outside the polling station. Visions of officials sat round a table as flood waters swirl round their feet....
The heading of public unable to cast their votes only covers the situations of queues at the polling station and not enough ballot papers.
So it seems that as long as there are some votes to be counted, you can declare a result.
My prediction for December 12th is severe weather in Northern Lab/Con marginals affecting people's ability to reach their polling station. This will lead to controversial results in several marginal seats (cf Newcastle Under Lyne result in 2017) and against a background of a hung parliament. There will be a huge row, the only result of which will be the resignation of the Head of the Electoral Commission.
You read it here first!
It would certainly add to the gaiety of the nation.
But it's worth pointing out that flooding can occur anywhere, any day of the year. It's slightly less likely in the summer because the ground will probably be drier and more absorbent, but there have been plenty of recent summer floods to show this is not a foolproof assumption.
Other way around. The drier the ground, the less absorbent it is and the water runs off more quickly.
Milne is a dangerous apologist for Putin. That's all you need to know. He's should be nowhere near the levers of power. Exactly the same as Cummings.
To me, it is clear enough why Putin - strong man, ultra conservative, white nationalist, racist, reactionary - stimulates the erogenous zones of Alt Right types, but I cannot understand why someone on the Left would be supportive of him.
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
About which Seamus Milne penned wistful articles about the DDR's wonderful social policies.
Must be English irony.
My knowledge of Milne stops at the point his father got shafted by Thatcher. Because of that i've always had a soft spot for him but have never followed hs politics. Oh and he looks like Strelnikov in Dr Zhivago
Milne is a dangerous apologist for Putin. That's all you need to know. He's should be nowhere near the levers of power. Exactly the same as Cummings.
When has Cummings ever supported communist regimes, anti western terrorists and 1 of the 3 worst mass murderers in history?
Not the same at all.
I said Putin. Not Communism. Putin isn't a Communist, he's a fascist.
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
If I'm understanding correctly this was a Labour Party beano to Cheltenham Races, so presumably the other people on the bus were Labour people. It isn't in the news because some journo poured through years of public internet postings, it's in the news because another Labour person on the bus went to the press about it 20 months later in the middle of an election campaign. Carden and McGinn are from different wings of the party as well. All very peculiar.
Ignore - just saw it was Alex Wickham sitting on the same bus.
On topic, excellent article. The other factor to consider is potential Conservative and Labour moderate voters just staying at home (being unable to abide the choices and in an election that looks a foregone conclusion). Possibly the impact of the postal strike on postal votes as well.
I hope Boris has considered how valid his mandate will be if he wins a majority of 50 on a voteshare of 35% on a turnout of 59%.
He would think about that exactly as much as Tony Blair thought about the nature of his 2005 mandate. ie not at all.
Quite. It's how our system works and though opponents of him wont like it and opponents of FPTP will point to it as another example of a poor system, it will be totally legitimate and he wont think about it even though he should
Not in terms of mandates though. Very misused word on politics.
It isn't really a disconnect. Brexit will end membership of the EU, which entails free movement. It will be for elected governments to decide on the best immigration policies, now that they will be free to do so. Brexit is leaving the EU, not a programme for government.
Over time, yes, but in the short term, assuming the GE goes the way I think it will, the Brexit debate and decision will have delivered unto us a Tory Party captured by its Right wing and with a substantial working majority. Now it could be that such a government will act with the interests of the working class at the very heart of everything it does - but let's just say I'm not convinced.
Milne is a dangerous apologist for Putin. That's all you need to know. He's should be nowhere near the levers of power. Exactly the same as Cummings.
To me, it is clear enough why Putin - strong man, ultra conservative, white nationalist, racist, reactionary - stimulates the erogenous zones of Alt Right types, but I cannot understand why someone on the Left would be supportive of him.
He's a fascist. And he gets traction with people who have a revolutionary mindset, not because Cummings or Milne are anything like fascists. Putin attacks the power structures of the West which makes him attractive to those who want to flip the whole table over. The ruination of our institutions is good for those who seek a totally new structure.
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
About which Seamus Milne penned wistful articles about the DDR's wonderful social policies.
Must be English irony.
My knowledge of Milne stops at the point his father got shafted by Thatcher. Because of that i've always had a soft spot for him but have never followed hs politics. Oh and he looks like Strelnikov in Dr Zhivago
Milne is a dangerous apologist for Putin. That's all you need to know. He's should be nowhere near the levers of power. Exactly the same as Cummings.
When has Cummings ever supported communist regimes, anti western terrorists and 1 of the 3 worst mass murderers in history?
Not the same at all.
He's chosen to advance the career of a disloyal amoral mendacious creep for money. Not the same. Worse.
Also, note the odd path taken by the English border... Newport, Monmouth and Chepstow all in England rather than Wales!
Do you have a date for that map?
The status of Monmouthshire has been ambiguous with many Acts of Parliament considering it part of England, until the 1974 reorganisation put it into Wales. The English Democrat Party want a border poll in Monmouthshire to settle the issue when England becomes independent.
Milne is a dangerous apologist for Putin. That's all you need to know. He's should be nowhere near the levers of power. Exactly the same as Cummings.
To me, it is clear enough why Putin - strong man, ultra conservative, white nationalist, racist, reactionary - stimulates the erogenous zones of Alt Right types, but I cannot understand why someone on the Left would be supportive of him.
He's a fascist. And he gets traction with people who have a revolutionary mindset, not because Cummings or Milne are anything like fascists. Putin attacks the power structures of the West which makes him attractive to those who want to flip the whole table over. The ruination of our institutions is good for those who seek a totally new structure.
That seems correct to me. And after all the outer fringes of left and right have always had a great deal in common, even though they profess different goals.
For example, if there were to be a Frankie "Two Tribes" wrestling bout between Trump and Putin I have to say I would find it difficult to root against Vlad.
On topic, excellent article. The other factor to consider is potential Conservative and Labour moderate voters just staying at home (being unable to abide the choices and in an election that looks a foregone conclusion). Possibly the impact of the postal strike on postal votes as well.
I hope Boris has considered how valid his mandate will be if he wins a majority of 50 on a voteshare of 35% on a turnout of 59%.
He would think about that exactly as much as Tony Blair thought about the nature of his 2005 mandate. ie not at all.
Maybe it'll stop Tories boring on about the injustice of Tony's 2005 mandate.
Signed: a naive fucking idiot.
It wont stop anyone, but it will expose those who actually believe it to be unfair and which are just unhappy partisans.
On topic who knows, if it rains across the UK on election day like it did in South Yorkshire on Thursday then it will become an illegitimate election.
I think this line is nonsense, but what I think doesn’t matter. I can start to see the narrative forming now “the referendum was a cheat and now so is this election; you’ve stolen democracy!” All that followed by lots of ludicrous comparisons with other countries where the election was actually stolen.
Sigh....
But what DOES happen if polling stations are flooded out or cannot be set up? If last Thursday had been election day, what would have happened in Sheffield and other other areas similarly affected.
It is a serious question and need answering.
If polling stations could not be set up the election would be deferred by Royal Prorogative - that is not a problem. The problem would be much more likely to be one where the roads could not be travelled upon safely but able bodied very serious minded voters could vote - on the day turnout reduced by a third. That is the real porblem and will never be addressed until it has happened some time.
Who is the “white supremacy fangirl” she says is a #10 advisor?
Elsewhere.in the rant she mentions Chloe Westley as the person. Never heard her so no idea if this is a fair description. Based on the rest of the ravings I would suspect not.
She thinks Anne-Marie Waters is a hero.
According to HuffPo she had no idea what some of AMW’s views were (neither do I) and was horrified when told.
(I find that plausible as a good friend of mine voted BNP in Tower Hamlets some 20 years ago - he was protesting against the corruption in the council and had no idea that the BNP was as nasty as they are.)
She thought AMW was a hero and wanted her work published, but had no idea what some of her views were? What a moron.
The British General Election of 1923, was held on December 9th. Had a 71.1% turnout.
Called by a new Conservative Prime Minister who wanted a mandate for his economic policy of of protectionism. However The Tories lost seats to Labour and The Liberals. A minority Labour Ministry was formed.
Pedant hat ON
It was a Unionist prime minister. The Unionists did not readopt the name Conservative until 1925, and even then some of their MPs refused to use it (e.g. Neville Chamberlain).
Pedant hat OFF.
Posted in hast without checking my history books. My visual reply would use Bart Simpson writing 'The Unionist' Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin called The General Election of December 9th 1923 only to lose power.
Have to look for newspaper reports on bad weather and low turnouts in Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland.
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
About which Seamus Milne penned wistful articles about the DDR's wonderful social policies.
Must be English irony.
My knowledge of Milne stops at the point his father got shafted by Thatcher. Because of that i've always had a soft spot for him but have never followed hs politics. Oh and he looks like Strelnikov in Dr Zhivago
Milne is a dangerous apologist for Putin. That's all you need to know. He's should be nowhere near the levers of power. Exactly the same as Cummings.
The phrase 'that's all you need to know' should always be treated with circumspection.
I appreciate where you're coming from with that, but I do think when it comes to judging whether someone is unsuitable for a position of power, you can make a shortcut to judgement in extreme cases. Anybody who supports Putin's foreign policy is a scumbag, irrespective of their other qualities. I imagine Milne has many qualities that would make him a viable adviser in a responsible political party. Unfortunately he's a Putin apologist, which is immediate and total disqualification in my book. It's like you meet someone who ticks a bunch of boxes -- kind to animals, gives up his seat to old ladies, spends the weekend picking litter from the beach -- but also has a Hitler tattoo. You don't really need to weigh up the good stuff because there's a glaring neon sign that this person is Bad News.
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
Have to say I'm with you on this one Rog, some raucous slightly un-PC goings on in a battle bus. The horror.
A shadow cabinet minister should know better
And in what way is signing “Hey Jew” vs “Hey Jude” actually funny?
Actually it is now featuring on the news as the mp's plaintiff cry goes up, why now just on an election.
I would just like to say I am not firing on all cylinders at present and may not be able to post as often as I would like but hopefully it will not be for long
I think the expression is 'play nicely friends'
Hope it’s nothing more serious than the bug that’s been going around
Jesus Christ! Someone overheard someone on a bus back from Cheltenham.....
This is Stasiland!
About which Seamus Milne penned wistful articles about the DDR's wonderful social policies.
Must be English irony.
My knowledge of Milne stops at the point his father got shafted by Thatcher. Because of that i've always had a soft spot for him but have never followed hs politics. Oh and he looks like Strelnikov in Dr Zhivago
Milne is a dangerous apologist for Putin. That's all you need to know. He's should be nowhere near the levers of power. Exactly the same as Cummings.
When has Cummings ever supported communist regimes, anti western terrorists and 1 of the 3 worst mass murderers in history?
Not the same at all.
I said Putin. Not Communism. Putin isn't a Communist, he's a fascist.
Putin doesn't do ideology; he has occupied every part of the political spectrum as convenience has dictated. The only constants have been publicly espoused Eurasian nationalism and social conservatism of the idéologie tripartite flavour.
On topic who knows, if it rains across the UK on election day like it did in South Yorkshire on Thursday then it will become an illegitimate election.
I think this line is nonsense, but what I think doesn’t matter. I can start to see the narrative forming now “the referendum was a cheat and now so is this election; you’ve stolen democracy!” All that followed by lots of ludicrous comparisons with other countries where the election was actually stolen.
Sigh....
But what DOES happen if polling stations are flooded out or cannot be set up? If last Thursday had been election day, what would have happened in Sheffield and other other areas similarly affected.
It is a serious question and need answering.
If polling stations could not be set up the election would be deferred by Royal Prorogative - that is not a problem. The problem would be much more likely to be one where the roads could not be travelled upon safely but able bodied very serious minded voters could vote - on the day turnout reduced by a third. That is the real porblem and will never be addressed until it has happened some time.
My recollection is that there were significant localised flooding/storm issues around London during the 2016 referendum. I don't remember anyone doing anything special then.
The much talked of ‘Labour Leavers’ appears already to be with the BXP. Plenty of Tory remainers there, still.
The Lib Dems need to squeeze the Tory Remain vote, but they probably need Labour to be doing a bit worse before people feel free to risk it.
But they never will risk it, not while Corbyn is Labour leader. The shock of that 2017 exit poll is a huge asset for the Tories. The idea that "well, he can't get in" so it is safe to vote LibDem for Remainers/Brexit for Leavers has been knocked out of play in 2019.
Nonsense. YouGov had Lib Dems in second place in SE and SW England. Corbyn is not the alternative to BoZo, the yellow peril are.
Spoiler: Jo Swinson will not be PM. The LibDems are a self-important and frankly ridiculous sideshow regarding who will be the occupant of Number 10 on December 13th.
I see that Mr Mark is still carrying out his orders from Tory HQ. Belittle Jo Swinson and the Lib Dems in whatever way you can dream up. She - and they - are far more credible that the burbling incompetent the Tories have fronting their campaign.
Comments
Sigh....
What was the straw that broke the camel’s back?
(With apologies you @camel for using offensive imagery 😉)
So that makes it right? It's no wonder so many people are turning off politics and just leaving it to the tribal supporters of the old duopoly to throw poo at each other.
This is Stasiland!
People giving us a breathless running update on the viewer numbers for that "Jeremy Corbyn is a Republican Terrorist sympathiser" YouTube ad.
Good times.
But I think it now has real cut through, especially since Panorama, as a prime example of why Corbyn is a distasteful figure to many and unfit for office. As LotO you have few 'executive tests' - by and large you're not in charge of anything that important you can screw-up so badly that it causes harm or scandal. Antisemitism has been one - which whether or not people fully understand the issue - they see a Labour leader who is at best ineffective and dishonest, and in thrall to the kind of people who are a massive turn off. It does more to show up Corbyn as a far-left ogre than any amount of Tory frothing about Stalin. It's a test even some of his defenders believe he has failed.
That arguably, too, has an impact on Brexit. Corbyn's big problem on that is lack of trust from people who should naturally slip into the Labour remain column as they did in 2017 (among whom I'd normally include myself). Anything that shows him and the party up as less than trustworthy and a potential disaster in government makes people who dislike Corbyn and dislike Brexit, less likely to make a devil's bargain.
And unlike the Tories, who don't need every Farage-curious person to exalt in Boris to win, Labour needs not just some of those people back, but almost all of them.
Husband: I can't vote for Corbyn he's a terrorist lover
Wife: Yes but he's never lied to the Queen like Boris and that Rees-Mogg fellow
Also re previous header, yes, spot on about the Benn Act. It was an error. I don't think No Deal was happening anyway - and nor will it on 31 Dec 2020 - and so all the Benn Act did was let Johnson off the hook and allow him to create his desired GE narrative.
I remember thinking what was Ann Marie Morris thinking when she used the N word.
Some people have the occasional brain fart.
It is a serious question and need answering.
It's an unpleasant topic I know, but Powellites exist and they love referring to Australia. They'd refer to Rhodesia too if they could get away with it.
(Gets coat)
For me, the conviction that nobody in the leadership is actually in the least anti-semitic is sufficient to class it as a mistake rather than a deal-breaker. But you've helped me understand why others might feel differently. Thank you.
EDIT: I see you've edited your post
Google threw this up. She seems a rather run of the mill identikit young staffer does not sure why she is being picked on.
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/chloe-westley-boris-johnson-anne-marie-waters_uk_5d3b027fe4b0a6d6373e88ad
The absolute state of these morons
(I find that plausible as a good friend of mine voted BNP in Tower Hamlets some 20 years ago - he was protesting against the corruption in the council and had no idea that the BNP was as nasty as they are.)
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/f2e80935f7e7125d7552ddc558b267dc1ec387e3/0_148_4470_5584/master/4470.jpg?width=1920&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=570fa02aeb472104c8a3fd7dcf1ffd92
Also, note the odd path taken by the English border... Newport, Monmouth and Chepstow all in England rather than Wales!
That doesn’t seem an unreasonable comment to make!
I said the mandate would be valid - a binary test.
I don’t say anything b about how he should utilise that mandate, which (IMV) should be the government for the whole nation
Farron’s constituency used to be Tory for years before he took it. It would not be that surprising if it reverted Tory.
Must be English irony.
Re your question -
I think because Israel is the iconic Jewish state where almost all of the world's Jews who don't live in America live it makes it easy for less thoughtful types to conflate the country with the race/religion.
And in what way is signing “Hey Jew” vs “Hey Jude” actually funny?
As far as members of the public being unable to vote, the only information I can find in a quick trawl round the Electoral Commission's website is a risk register for the 2011 AV referendum. This appears to be a standard corporate tick boxing/arse covering exercise . It advises that if the Presiding Officer is unable to gain access, they should set up a temporary operation outside the polling station. Visions of officials sat round a table as flood waters swirl round their feet....
The heading of public unable to cast their votes only covers the situations of queues at the polling station and not enough ballot papers.
So it seems that as long as there are some votes to be counted, you can declare a result.
My prediction for December 12th is severe weather in Northern Lab/Con marginals affecting people's ability to reach their polling station. This will lead to controversial results in several marginal seats (cf Newcastle Under Lyne result in 2017) and against a background of a hung parliament. There will be a huge row, the only result of which will be the resignation of the Head of the Electoral Commission.
You read it here first!
I would just like to say I am not firing on all cylinders at present and may not be able to post as often as I would like but hopefully it will not be for long
I think the expression is 'play nicely friends'
Two - Leaders - Labour sounds like the nuttiest idea since Jezza himself became leader!
Layla is so angry her boyfriend has gone into hiding
I also find the following question interesting to ponder -
Have the Tory Right delivered Brexit or has Brexit delivered the Tory Right?
Called by a new Conservative Prime Minister who wanted a mandate for his economic policy of of protectionism. However The Tories lost seats to Labour and The Liberals. A minority Labour Ministry was formed.
That said, singing racist songs in front of a reporter is a sin of terminal stupidity. Not that anyone would necessarily expect more from the egregious Carden.
Edit: I meant ‘sign of terminal stupidity,’ but I like the typo better so I’m leaving it.
Our next Prime Minister.
*titter*
It was a Unionist prime minister. The Unionists did not readopt the name Conservative until 1925, and even then some of their MPs refused to use it (e.g. Neville Chamberlain).
Pedant hat OFF.
Not the same at all.
But it's worth pointing out that flooding can occur anywhere, any day of the year. It's slightly less likely in the summer because the ground will probably be drier and more absorbent, but there have been plenty of recent summer floods to show this is not a foolproof assumption. The location of a flood is extremely unpredictable because it will most likely be caused by a weather system getting stalled over a river basin - and that could be anywhere from Boscastle to Cumbria to Lewes to Tewkesbury to Leamington to St Asaph to Sedgemoor to Hull to Sheffield and Doncaster, with apologies for any accidental omissions. Over-development on flood plains, confluences, spring tides and estuaries obviously complicate the picture.
Is that any different from someone saying that antisemitism is ok because Israel is bad?
Killer claims his life sentence is served because he briefly died
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-50355168
Not in terms of mandates though. Very misused word on politics.
The status of Monmouthshire has been ambiguous with many Acts of Parliament considering it part of England, until the 1974 reorganisation put it into Wales. The English Democrat Party want a border poll in Monmouthshire to settle the issue when England becomes independent.
For example, if there were to be a Frankie "Two Tribes" wrestling bout between Trump and Putin I have to say I would find it difficult to root against Vlad.
Have to look for newspaper reports on bad weather and low turnouts in Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland.
Anybody who supports Putin's foreign policy is a scumbag, irrespective of their other qualities. I imagine Milne has many qualities that would make him a viable adviser in a responsible political party. Unfortunately he's a Putin apologist, which is immediate and total disqualification in my book.
It's like you meet someone who ticks a bunch of boxes -- kind to animals, gives up his seat to old ladies, spends the weekend picking litter from the beach -- but also has a Hitler tattoo. You don't really need to weigh up the good stuff because there's a glaring neon sign that this person is Bad News.