Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Having traded with the Co-op as a supplier my experience is that they are no more ethical than any of the other retailers. Someone questioned their high retail prices - partly from sustainable sourcing yes. For example they restrict their own label meat to certain sources which restricts supply with the inevitable effect on pics. But their main problem is their cost of operations which seems high compared to the big supermarkets, which in turn is high compared to Aldi and Lidl.
What does bemuse me about the bank is just how big a disaster it has become for the group. Other supermarket groups realised that they had a vast cash flow from retail transactions, and that with clever manipulation of payment terms they could buy product from suppliers, sell it at a profit to consumers, invest the revenue for a month or two, make another profit, and then pay the suppliers for the stock they originally bought.
Tesco and Sainsbury needed banking partners to get their banks going as joint venture businesses, Co-op had their own bank to partner with. That should have given the Co-op a big advantage over the others, as has been noted their banking practices were as PPItiful as the rest. And yet here we are with the rest of the group initially trying to raise money from suppliers to bail out the bank, then having to sell it to Hostile Takeover Bank Inc.
Incidentally, the Co-operative party being a "trading name of Labour" - nice try. They have their own party complete with leadership, structure, policies etc.
Morris, have to say , that is a load of bollocks. Scotland's currency is the pound , it will continue to be in the short term at least and rumpUK will be happy to share it despite the bluster of the morons in Westminster. The fact that supposedly educated people like yourself still write twaddle about UK banks being Scottish shows the level of the debate outside Scotland. We hear many threats from Westminster and you know what people can see right through them. I see the usual victim mode from English people here, just because someone does not lavish praise immediate umbrage is taken and the usual , Oh people are being nasty to me because I am English comes out. Nobody has anything against the English , the problem is that Westminster is bleeding Scotland dry , just as it does with much of England. Difference is we are going to do something about it. We will know soon enough who the dumplings are.
Why would England be "happy to share the pound" with a country whose economy has worse demographics and is dependent on one volatile commodity?
Answer: we wouldn't. We couldn't stop you using the pound the way Panama uses the US dollar, but you'd have no say in interest rates, which would be set for the rest of the UK NOT Scotland, and you'd have no lender of last resort, and no way of printing pounds, no influence at the BoE on fiscal issues, etc etc, just as Panama has no say in the governance of the greenback.
This is simply the case. The SNP would be better of just admitting this, fibs aren't going to work.
Where do you get the worse demographics, Scotland's economy even without oil is almost the same as the UK, only London has a higher GDP.. So we can Scotch that one quickly. Your second point is moot given rumpUK will want a deal to help their balance of payments. But even if not, many countries manage to survive very well without the highly indebted UK helping them. RumpUK will be busy enough worrying about their £1.5 trillion debt in any case. We can also print pounds and back them with oil, not very difficult. Economics is obviously not your forte. Personally we should go with our own currency immediately but I can see sense in sticking with the pound till all the unravelling is completed , so OK for 5 or so years.
I reckon Scotland might end up with the Euro IF it is independent eventually.
But presumably an indy Scotland would have to get this past the Scottish people via a referendum?
Not necessarily - we'll have to see the White Paper on Tuesday but it doesn't look like there will be a 'Plan B' on currency - so it may be a referendum (if at all) on 'Staying in the EU with the Euro' or 'Leaving'.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
But now we learn Osborne was interfering politically to get the Lloyds branches for said Co Op bank.
Well we will see what we learn. All I have seen so far is that Osborne was hawking around these branches as he was legally obliged to do and the Co Op was a potential buyer who ultimately did not have the wherewithall.
Using the pound is feasible, but utterly at odds with the concept of independence..
It's either the pound or the euro, in both cases with a foreign central bank and foreign economic policy, so it really is hard to see how this tilts the referendum either way.
The difference is that the Scots would get a seat on the ECB. In any case, the EU may demand that an independent Scotland sign up to join the Euro, as has been policy for all new members since before the 2004 entrants joined.
LOL, pigs may fly. We have been members for 40 years.
Got legal advice to back that up?
Oh, that's right! Salmond only spent money on lawyers to hush up the fact that he hadn't spent money on lawyers to get legal advice.....
I see Westminster rushing to get their position proved , EU said that all Westminster needed to do was ask , what do you think has happened , exactly they are scared to get the real answer. We have been members for 40 years and will continue to be in the future, Europe will wave it all through and definitely before rumpUK votes on coming out for sure.
Oh Dear Darling left red-faced as 'bust' nations overtake UK in world prosperity index Head of the anti-independence campaign Alistair Darling has been left red faced today after the latest prosperity table showed the UK has been overtaken by two countries he claimed this week were “bust”.
For once I agree with you. If the euroelex are bad for Cameron and the polls stay grim (with UKIP riding high) then the pressure on Cam to do a deal with Farage, from his nervous backbenchers, will be intense. But Farage will demand several kilograms of eurosceptic flesh.
Cameron is pragmatic, but europhile at heart. What would he do? My bet is he'd refuse a deal, slide to a bad defeat, then be instantly rejected by the Tory party and go down as their most reviled leader since Heath - if not worse. He will be regarded with total, historic contempt as the man who split the Right.
Or his inner Machiavelli might emerge and Cameron WOULD cut a deal with Farage. Less likely.
Is there any possible way a deal could be done? I'd have to say yes. It's unlikely but it's a last gasp strategy and we do know how Osbrowne loves his master strategies and 'easy fixes'.
It would all depend on trust but if Farage could make Cameron pledge somewhere close to full blown OUT and perhaps some positioning and distancing for the tory party and all MPs on any official line involving campaigning for IN, then you just never know. If it's put into the future past the election then Cammie might jump at the chance and deal with the fallout later.
Farage himself knows it's a just remote possibility but he also knows the pressure of staring an election in the face with UKIP still riding high (and we had best remember anything well above 3% is going to put the fear of god into Cammie and tory MPs in marginal seats) is going to concentrate tory minds immensely.
The kippers have not crashed and burned since the May elections. They've went down but now they seem to have settled. Anything like the 12%(ish) they're on now is more than enough to cause electoral carnage for the tories. This is also likely the kippers low point between last May and next May's EU elections.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
1.Well done on conflating the Co-op bank and the Co-op group which is doing rather well.
2.Ed Balls` role as a Treasury minister was to support a Tory,I repeat Tory private member bill to create super-mutuals.Where`s the scandal?
3.I cannot even write about Cameron`s media links on this site without being moderated.So funny a Tory mentioning the leader`s links.
4.So Tory politicians weren`t convicted of expenses and didn`t go to prison then?
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
But now we learn Osborne was interfering politically to get the Lloyds branches for said Co Op bank.
Well we will see what we learn. All I have seen so far is that Osborne was hawking around these branches as he was legally obliged to do and the Co Op was a potential buyer who ultimately did not have the wherewithall.
What we have learned over the last five years is that when Osborne tries to be clever it ALWAYS backfires on the Tories.
What we have seen is you trying to smear, yet again.
If history had taken a different course then you would also be criticising. ISTR that the Co-op Bank wanted this deal, and wanted it badly (perhaps we can now see the reasons why). If the government had not let the deal go ahead without good reason, you would be bleating on about government interference. And in that case, rightly.
To recap: 1) Lloyds-TSB/HBOS needed splitting by EC decree. 2) They had a willing party to take over part of the company. 3) That party seemed viable.
It made sense for it to go ahead, and for the government to encourage it..
And remember, there was a deadline for the end of this year.
I reckon Scotland might end up with the Euro IF it is independent eventually.
But presumably an indy Scotland would have to get this past the Scottish people via a referendum?
Obviously and that's what would happen at a future date if there was pressure from the scotish public for it or a change in policy from any future scottish government. No matter what some rather silly scottish tory surgers may say.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
Won't win them a vote or lose Labour a single vote. So a complete waste of time to raise this as a political issue. IMO anything that diverts the Tories from talking about the economy is a mistake.
The Spads in no10 find this sort of stuff irresistible.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
2.Ed Balls` role as a Treasury minister was to support a Tory,I repeat Tory private member bill to create super-mutuals.Where`s the scandal?
Ed Balls faced increased pressure over his close relationship with the Co-op last night as it emerged he lavished praise on the stricken bank even after it had racked up £1.5billion of debt. Attending a fund-raising dinner, the Shadow Chancellor boasted that he was the ‘Co-operative Shadow Chancellor’ who was ‘looking forward to taking co-operation into the Treasury when we get the chance’. Mr Balls also said the bank would go from ‘strength to strength’ – even though disgraced chairman Paul Flowers had just been forced out for what it is now known to be major concerns about his expenses.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
Won't win them a vote or lose Labour a single vote. So a complete waste of time to raise this as a political issue. IMO anything that diverts the Tories from talking about the economy is a mistake.
The Spads in no10 find this sort of stuff irresistible.
And how is the economy doing? Rather well round here. Anecdotally, we're spending much, but earning lots (all from exports or services), saving to repair the damage of the last few years.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
Won't win them a vote or lose Labour a single vote. So a complete waste of time to raise this as a political issue. IMO anything that diverts the Tories from talking about the economy is a mistake.
The Spads in no10 find this sort of stuff irresistible.
If it denies the Labour party funds for campaigning then it is a success. Its not about tomorrow's yougov.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
Won't win them a vote or lose Labour a single vote. So a complete waste of time to raise this as a political issue. IMO anything that diverts the Tories from talking about the economy is a mistake.
The Spads in no10 find this sort of stuff irresistible.
And how is the economy doing? Rather well round here. Anecdotally, we're spending much, but earning lots (all from exports or services), saving to repair the damage of the last few years.
So why on earth are the Tories wasting limited air time talking about the fecking co-op?
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
Won't win them a vote or lose Labour a single vote. So a complete waste of time to raise this as a political issue. IMO anything that diverts the Tories from talking about the economy is a mistake.
The Spads in no10 find this sort of stuff irresistible.
As incomes have gone down for 39 out of 40 months that Cameron has been prime minister,they don`t want to talk about the economy either.
Under Labour an accountant became CEO of RBS. He even received a knighthood. I don't think it would have been impossible for Labour/Gordon to engineer another of their mates into a high profile position.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
Won't win them a vote or lose Labour a single vote. So a complete waste of time to raise this as a political issue. IMO anything that diverts the Tories from talking about the economy is a mistake.
The Spads in no10 find this sort of stuff irresistible.
If it denies the Labour party funds for campaigning then it is a success. Its not about tomorrow's yougov.
But that's exactly what they ARE trying to do with this (along with trying to cause embarrassment). It's a complete waste of time wrt to votes or party funding.
A more significant political question is whether the concept of mutuals can adjust to the modern fiercely commercial era. We are all very nice about credit unions, and that's partly because they are usually locally-based and have some knowledge of the customers, enabling them to make more informed decisions about lending than Wonga. But my impression is that they're feeling pressure to merge and form larger units, which may erode their USP in the same way. In 20-30 years, will every major enterprise be a branch of a multinational conglomerate with no particular philosophy?
The problem, I think, arises from the lack of governance in large mutuals.
Companies that are active in multiple segments and have complex organisations need strong and effective management and strong governance. This should mean selection on merit (clearly the typical private sector organisation doesn't always get it right). So, organisations such as a John Lewis or Hollister can be very successful as employee-owned mutuals because there is very effective accountability.
Similarly small organisations like credit unions can work because they are relatively simple and the key stakeholders usually know the management personally (our own organisation also benefits from the board having a broader sense of responsibility to stakeholders not just shareholders)
FWIW, as I understand it, Flowers "appeared from nowhere". I mentioned yesterday that I spent a couple of hours with a former Co-op Group Chairman who said that he had never come across Flowers before he was appointed to the Board.
I reckon Scotland might end up with the Euro IF it is independent eventually.
But presumably an indy Scotland would have to get this past the Scottish people via a referendum?
Not necessarily - we'll have to see the White Paper on Tuesday but it doesn't look like there will be a 'Plan B' on currency - so it may be a referendum (if at all) on 'Staying in the EU with the Euro' or 'Leaving'.
For sure there will be a plan B, any idiot knows that but for sure it is none of the business of the unionists and given they will be desperate for Scotland to use the pound it will be unnecessary.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
Won't win them a vote or lose Labour a single vote. So a complete waste of time to raise this as a political issue. IMO anything that diverts the Tories from talking about the economy is a mistake.
The Spads in no10 find this sort of stuff irresistible.
As incomes have gone down for 39 out of 40 months that Cameron has been prime minister,they don`t want to talk about the economy either.
Come off it, the Tories have a story to tell about the economy right now. While they need to avoid "mission accomplished" type stuff, they have to talk about and explain it 24/7 if it is going to sink in by 2015.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
2.Ed Balls` role as a Treasury minister was to support a Tory,I repeat Tory private member bill to create super-mutuals.Where`s the scandal?
Ed Balls faced increased pressure over his close relationship with the Co-op last night as it emerged he lavished praise on the stricken bank even after it had racked up £1.5billion of debt. Attending a fund-raising dinner, the Shadow Chancellor boasted that he was the ‘Co-operative Shadow Chancellor’ who was ‘looking forward to taking co-operation into the Treasury when we get the chance’. Mr Balls also said the bank would go from ‘strength to strength’ – even though disgraced chairman Paul Flowers had just been forced out for what it is now known to be major concerns about his expenses.
I reckon Scotland might end up with the Euro IF it is independent eventually.
But presumably an indy Scotland would have to get this past the Scottish people via a referendum?
Obviously and that's what would happen at a future date. No matter what some rather silly scottish tory surgers may say.
Link to such an SNP commitment?
Obviously and that's what would happen at a future date if there was pressure from the scotish public for it or a change in policy from any future scottish government. No matter what some rather silly scottish tory surgers may say.
The commitment is to keep sterling but it's common knowledge that if any future scottish government were to change policy they would put it to the scottish public at a referendum. Nor would the scottish public have any trouble believing that a referendum would be forthcoming since, unlike the incompetent fop Cammie and his Cast Iron Promises, the scottish public know full well the commitment to deliver an independence referendum wasn't spin but reality.
Still waiting for you to link Osbrowne ruling out a currency union.
Now you can also link to where the incompetent fop Cammie says he supports IN or OUT for his own Cast Iron Referendum? Or is the incompetent fop still hopelessly confused about what he wants?
Nick, as a Co-op retail and Bank customer, may I congratulate you on an excellent post, the first paragraph of which sums up my position exactly. I think/kope that your thoughts apply particularly to one of my favourite Co-op products; Fairtrade wines!
Out of interest, have you ever looked closely into the economics of Fairtrade and who benefits?
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
Won't win them a vote or lose Labour a single vote. So a complete waste of time to raise this as a political issue. IMO anything that diverts the Tories from talking about the economy is a mistake.
The Spads in no10 find this sort of stuff irresistible.
As incomes have gone down for 39 out of 40 months that Cameron has been prime minister,they don`t want to talk about the economy either.
Come off it, the Tories have a story to tell about the economy right now. While they need to avoid "mission accomplished" type stuff, they have to talk about and explain it 24/7 if it is going to sink in by 2015.
Growth is so last year,cost of living is what the media and the electorate want to talk about and the Tories haven`t got anything to say.
Falkirk was the start, and now we have the Co-op. Haven't you noticed that together they have placed Labour completely on the defensive politically when the party should have been forging ahead on its cost of living agenda?
Much to tim's dismay (and hence financial contribution to a most worthy cause), the first impact has been on Ed's leadership ratings that are now behind Dave's, when most expected an increase in his lead. tim is now dumb and mute about next month's figures and rightly so.
We'll see about the impact on VI: I doubt it will be large if it all. But if even it falls back to 5-6% range of early summer that's a modest plus.
But as a serious pol yourself (don't be modest), you know it has put Labour on the backfoot for the present and that's NEVER a good thing for a party.
"Where do you get the worse demographics, Scotland's economy even without oil is almost the same as the UK, only London has a higher GDP.. So we can Scotch that one quickly. Your second point is moot given rumpUK will want a deal to help their balance of payments. But even if not, many countries manage to survive very well without the highly indebted UK helping them. RumpUK will be busy enough worrying about their £1.5 trillion debt in any case. We can also print pounds and back them with oil, not very difficult. Economics is obviously not your forte. Personally we should go with our own currency immediately but I can see sense in sticking with the pound till all the unravelling is completed , so OK for 5 or so years."
You say "Economics is not my forte" - but you think you can "print pounds", as a foreign country, without the formal permission of the Bank of England?
Hey, I think I might print my own pounds next week, in the garden shed, using a potato printer and some coloured paper, then buy a Ferrari.
Shall we end the debate here before you soil yourself further?
Sean, It is fine to think you are smart , but not that smart. Why would we need to print pounds unless we had introduced our own totally Scottish pound. I am sure a smart arse like you has used a foreign exchange shop previously and bought many currencies, people and countries do it every day. As I said we can use our oil reserves as surety and buy as many pounds as we wish and use them at will. Dodgy given the indebtedness of the rumpUK and much better to go with US dollar but hey ho, certainly does not need permission of the pipsqueaks in Westminster.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
2.Ed Balls` role as a Treasury minister was to support a Tory,I repeat Tory private member bill to create super-mutuals.Where`s the scandal?
Ed Balls faced increased pressure over his close relationship with the Co-op last night as it emerged he lavished praise on the stricken bank even after it had racked up £1.5billion of debt. Attending a fund-raising dinner, the Shadow Chancellor boasted that he was the ‘Co-operative Shadow Chancellor’ who was ‘looking forward to taking co-operation into the Treasury when we get the chance’. Mr Balls also said the bank would go from ‘strength to strength’ – even though disgraced chairman Paul Flowers had just been forced out for what it is now known to be major concerns about his expenses.
Growth is so last year,cost of living is what the media and the electorate want to talk about and the Tories haven`t got anything to say.
Not so sure. Growth this year will improve budgets next year. The Tories need to start setting the scene for this now, instead of banging on about the co-op.
They need to explain what they did, and how that led to an improvement. A difficult job. No time to waste.
Why are the Tories wasting their time banging on about the Co-op?
Seriously?
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support. 2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen. 3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed. 4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior. 5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend. 6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
Won't win them a vote or lose Labour a single vote. So a complete waste of time to raise this as a political issue. IMO anything that diverts the Tories from talking about the economy is a mistake.
The Spads in no10 find this sort of stuff irresistible.
As incomes have gone down for 39 out of 40 months that Cameron has been prime minister,they don`t want to talk about the economy either.
Come off it, the Tories have a story to tell about the economy right now. While they need to avoid "mission accomplished" type stuff, they have to talk about and explain it 24/7 if it is going to sink in by 2015.
Growth is so last year,cost of living is what the media and the electorate want to talk about and the Tories haven`t got anything to say.
What you mean is that Labour have utterly lost the argument on growth, and are therefore attacking on something much more subjective.
Perhaps it might be better for them to apply some introspection, and ask themselves why they got their growth argument so wrong ...
So why on earth are the Tories wasting limited air time talking about the fecking co-op?
(1) The economy is recovering, and growing in parts, but as we all know, the growth is not evenly balanced. We had no income at all for two years, things are now going well, and not everyone else is in the same position, but given time it should get there for the majority. If they did talk about the economy all the time, it would irritate those people who aren't doing well right now.
(2) Because the co-op were all high and mighty about their ethics, and it is good to see them taken down a peg or two.
Oh Dear Darling left red-faced as 'bust' nations overtake UK in world prosperity index Head of the anti-independence campaign Alistair Darling has been left red faced today after the latest prosperity table showed the UK has been overtaken by two countries he claimed this week were “bust”.
Ireland has an unemployment rate of 13.7% (ours is 7.6%); it has a debt to GDP ratio of 117.% (ours is 88%); it has expected GDP growth for this year of -0.2% (yes, a contraction) - ours is expected to grow 1.4%; Ireland is seeing its population emigrate faster than any other European country -
Meanwhile the UK population is expanding (though not so much in Scotland).
Apart from those minor points "newsnetscotland" offers a very persuasive analysis.
Expanding too much in southern England and by not enough enough in Scotland I agree. Still makes Darling out to be the idiot we know he is to say these countries are bust , they are recovering and will most likely in time be once again better off than the UK. Given the doom and gloom from the paid Westminster monkeys , Cameron may after all get what he wants and easily win the next election. He may indeed be very clever having Darling as the union figurehead and the empty barrel Carmichael as Governor General.
I reckon Scotland might end up with the Euro IF it is independent eventually.
But presumably an indy Scotland would have to get this past the Scottish people via a referendum?
Obviously and that's what would happen at a future date. No matter what some rather silly scottish tory surgers may say.
Link to such an SNP commitment?
Obviously and that's what would happen at a future date if there was pressure from the scotish public for it or a change in policy from any future scottish government. No matter what some rather silly scottish tory surgers may say.
Still waiting for you to link Osbrowne ruling out a currency union.
Why? Only an idiot gives away their negotiating position before a negotiation....unless you are the SNP.....automatically be in the EU keep the pound be NATO members
Do you think 'Free Unicorns' will be in Tuesday's White Paper & if the vote won the UK obliged to supply them?
That's Swinney's logic on the pound.....maybe they've missed an opportunity.....
Falkirk was the start, and now we have the Co-op. Haven't you noticed that together they have placed Labour completely on the defensive politically when the party should have been forging ahead on its cost of living agenda?
Much to tim's dismay (and hence financial contribution to a most worthy cause), the first impact has been on Ed's leadership ratings that are now behind Dave's, when most expected an increase in his lead. tim is now dumb and mute about next month's figures and rightly so.
We'll see about the impact on VI: I doubt it will be large if it all. But if even it falls back to 5-6% range of early summer that's a modest plus.
But as a serious pol yourself (don't be modest), you know it has put Labour on the backfoot for the present and that's NEVER a good thing for a party.
Yes, it shuts Labour up for a bit and maybe arrest some momentum they had. But really it is a diversion from what the Tories should be talking about. With this weeks debt figures, they are silly to talk about anything else. They need to focus their effort on forming these arguments.
I suspect the Co-op story will not stick to Labour, because the Rev Flowers is clearly such a unique case. People appear to find it funny.
Growth is so last year,cost of living is what the media and the electorate want to talk about and the Tories haven`t got anything to say.
Not so sure. Growth this year will improve budgets next year. The Tories need to start setting the scene for this now, instead of banging on about the co-op.
They won't get the chance for long. Soon enough things are going to change. EU elections are coming and immigration is again heading right up the political agenda.
Using the pound is feasible, but utterly at odds with the concept of independence..
It's either the pound or the euro, in both cases with a foreign central bank and foreign economic policy, so it really is hard to see how this tilts the referendum either way.
The difference is that the Scots would get a seat on the ECB. In any case, the EU may demand that an independent Scotland sign up to join the Euro, as has been policy for all new members since before the 2004 entrants joined.
LOL, pigs may fly. We have been members for 40 years.
No. The United Kingdom has been a member for 40 years. Scotland has been no more a member than Yorkshire has. If Scotland were to become independent, it would need to negotiate membership.
That membership would likely be granted quickly - and quite probably the accession / independence dates would be set to coincide - given that current Scots law is entirely compatible with EU law. However, Scotland would be legally regarded as a 'new' state (notwithstanding that there was once an independent Scotland in the distant past). It would not automatically take on the rights and duties (or some proportionate share thereof) of the previous UK. The question of currency would likely be quite a serious sticking point as it has been EU policy since around 2000 that all new members sign up to joining the Euro as soon as they meet the admission criteria.
The Co-op's ethical, luvvy customers should be thankful to the Mail for bringing this guy to the attention of the authorities...before he did something even more embarrassing
The Co-op's ethical, luvvy customers should be thankful to the Mail for bringing this guy to the attention of the authorities...before he did something even more embarrassing
Nick, as a Co-op retail and Bank customer, may I congratulate you on an excellent post, the first paragraph of which sums up my position exactly. I think/kope that your thoughts apply particularly to one of my favourite Co-op products; Fairtrade wines!
Out of interest, have you ever looked closely into the economics of Fairtrade and who benefits?
Yes, and it's not perfect but at least a significant part goes to the right place much of the time.
While desperately looking for a plot and concept for my next thriller, I have unearthed a startling fact: the actress Tilda Swinton is a member of THE Swinton family/clan - the direct descendants of the Anglo-Saxon Royal House of Bamburgh, Kings of Northumbria from 547 to 867 AD.
"Flowers sat on the national executive committee of the Co-op alongside three Labour MPs, two of whom – Chris Leslie and Cathy Jamieson – are members of Labour’s Treasury team."
Never met him, no idea who he was, only a minor figure, out of his depth, nothing to see, move along, use moral equivalence line they are all at it, hosted event at Tory Conference, never met our dear Leader, non person, non story, Rev Paul Who Flowers?.
Growth is so last year,cost of living is what the media and the electorate want to talk about and the Tories haven`t got anything to say.
Not so sure. Growth this year will improve budgets next year. The Tories need to start setting the scene for this now, instead of banging on about the co-op.
They need to explain what they did, and how that led to an improvement. A difficult job. No time to waste.
The problem is noone is sure.We see the retail figures going down last month after setting records the previous month.So it appears that the recovery is going to be in fits and starts.
Besides growth only returned when Osborne relaxed austerity silently,so two and half years later than expected! Paul Krugman the Nobel winner for economics remarked about Osborne`s plan. recently
`Osborne and Cameron were banging their heads on the wall and everyone advised them not to do so as it would hurt.Then they stopped banging their heads on the wall and realised their heads no longer hurt and declared their plan of banging their heads on the wall as a success`.
I reckon Scotland might end up with the Euro IF it is independent eventually.
But presumably an indy Scotland would have to get this past the Scottish people via a referendum?
Obviously and that's what would happen at a future date. No matter what some rather silly scottish tory surgers may say.
Link to such an SNP commitment?
Obviously and that's what would happen at a future date if there was pressure from the scotish public for it or a change in policy from any future scottish government. No matter what some rather silly scottish tory surgers may say.
Still waiting for you to link Osbrowne ruling out a currency union.
Why? Only an idiot gives away their negotiating position before a negotiation....
Ruling it out isn't negotiating it's ruling it out, as even any batty old biddy in the scottish tories should know.
You may now feel free to shriek eccentrically about unicorns or Flowers as we await the next colossal scottish tory surge.
Falkirk was the start, and now we have the Co-op. Haven't you noticed that together they have placed Labour completely on the defensive politically when the party should have been forging ahead on its cost of living agenda?
Much to tim's dismay (and hence financial contribution to a most worthy cause), the first impact has been on Ed's leadership ratings that are now behind Dave's, when most expected an increase in his lead. tim is now dumb and mute about next month's figures and rightly so.
We'll see about the impact on VI: I doubt it will be large if it all. But if even it falls back to 5-6% range of early summer that's a modest plus.
But as a serious pol yourself (don't be modest), you know it has put Labour on the backfoot for the present and that's NEVER a good thing for a party.
Yes, it shuts Labour up for a bit and maybe arrest some momentum they had. But really it is a diversion from what the Tories should be talking about. With this weeks debt figures, they are silly to talk about anything else. They need to focus their effort on forming these arguments.
I suspect the Co-op story will not stick to Labour, because the Rev Flowers is clearly such a unique case. People appear to find it funny.
Indeed. You acknowledge that harm has been done to Labour and politically that's important for us Blues (sorry 'Phil').
But the fact that Ed "I'm the Cooperative" Shadow Chancellor has become embroiled in the debacle gives the Tories the delicious double-whammy of contrasting its own economic success, including the falling deficit, with its incompetent and now less than wholesome opponents.
About which I feel we shall hear more at some length with the Autumn Statement in a couple of weeks time. It's all come together fortuitously I agree, but rather nicely all the same, wouldn't you agree?
Universities 'can segregate men and women for debates' A group of university leaders issued guidance saying that it may be acceptable to separate genders, as long as they are segregated side by side
Using the pound is feasible, but utterly at odds with the concept of independence..
It's either the pound or the euro, in both cases with a foreign central bank and foreign economic policy, so it really is hard to see how this tilts the referendum either way.
The difference is that the Scots would get a seat on the ECB. In any case, the EU may demand that an independent Scotland sign up to join the Euro, as has been policy for all new members since before the 2004 entrants joined.
LOL, pigs may fly. We have been members for 40 years.
No. The United Kingdom has been a member for 40 years. Scotland has been no more a member than Yorkshire has. If Scotland were to become independent, it would need to negotiate membership.
That membership would likely be granted quickly - and quite probably the accession / independence dates would be set to coincide - given that current Scots law is entirely compatible with EU law. However, Scotland would be legally regarded as a 'new' state (notwithstanding that there was once an independent Scotland in the distant past). It would not automatically take on the rights and duties (or some proportionate share thereof) of the previous UK. The question of currency would likely be quite a serious sticking point as it has been EU policy since around 2000 that all new members sign up to joining the Euro as soon as they meet the admission criteria.
David, any sensible person knows it will be be a simple rubber stamp and they will not force anyone into the Euro. It will be a carve up of current UK numbers initially and a full change later re numbers of representatives etc. It is a non issue in the debate.
Miss Vance, indeed. It'll be interesting, if depressing, to see how far backwards radical religious sorts are allowed to go with this kind of bullshit.
Using the pound is feasible, but utterly at odds with the concept of independence..
It's either the pound or the euro, in both cases with a foreign central bank and foreign economic policy, so it really is hard to see how this tilts the referendum either way.
The difference is that the Scots would get a seat on the ECB. In any case, the EU may demand that an independent Scotland sign up to join the Euro, as has been policy for all new members since before the 2004 entrants joined.
LOL, pigs may fly. We have been members for 40 years.
No. The United Kingdom has been a member for 40 years. Scotland has been no more a member than Yorkshire has. If Scotland were to become independent, it would need to negotiate membership.
That membership would likely be granted quickly - and quite probably the accession / independence dates would be set to coincide - given that current Scots law is entirely compatible with EU law. However, Scotland would be legally regarded as a 'new' state (notwithstanding that there was once an independent Scotland in the distant past). It would not automatically take on the rights and duties (or some proportionate share thereof) of the previous UK. The question of currency would likely be quite a serious sticking point as it has been EU policy since around 2000 that all new members sign up to joining the Euro as soon as they meet the admission criteria.
It will be a carve up of current UK numbers initially
I'm sure you wouldn't dream of taking a single brass farthing of the reviled Thatcher's rebate, would you? So we'll have that then......
Growth is so last year,cost of living is what the media and the electorate want to talk about and the Tories haven`t got anything to say.
Not so sure. Growth this year will improve budgets next year. The Tories need to start setting the scene for this now, instead of banging on about the co-op.
They won't get the chance for long. Soon enough things are going to change. EU elections are coming and immigration is again heading right up the political agenda.
Funny how immigration is TOP of PM's agenda now.If #ukip had not been brave to address it, + PM see the reaction, would still be ignored.
How can the PB Tories address this when most of them support UKIP's position rather than Camerons?
Not just on immigration either. His own MPs don't trust him on Europe and many PB tories are squarely in the Farage camp on climate change and some other issues, not Cammie's ever changing 'beliefs'.
Say what you will about the kippers but at least they are getting what they believe in. Some of the Cameroons and many PB tories put up with Cammie just because he is in power, not because they trust or believe in what he does. They are to be pitied.
FPTP used to mean the tories didn't need to worry about the kippers. Not any more.
Miss Vance, indeed. It'll be interesting, if depressing, to see how far backwards radical religious sorts are allowed to go with this kind of bullshit.
And how craven the 'right-on' types are in conceding. Its a lecture in the UK, for fiddle's sake. This is how we do things here and if you don't like it don't bother coming.....
You say "Economics is not my forte" - but you think you can "print pounds", as a foreign country, without the formal permission of the Bank of England?
Hey, I think I might print my own pounds next week, in the garden shed, using a potato printer and some coloured paper, then buy a Ferrari.
Shall we end the debate here before you soil yourself further?
Sean, It is fine to think you are smart , but not that smart. Why would we need to print pounds unless we had introduced our own totally Scottish pound. I am sure a smart arse like you has used a foreign exchange shop previously and bought many currencies, people and countries do it every day. As I said we can use our oil reserves as surety and buy as many pounds as we wish and use them at will. Dodgy given the indebtedness of the rumpUK and much better to go with US dollar but hey ho, certainly does not need permission of the pipsqueaks in Westminster.
So, wait, now you're going to have your OWN currency, not linked to sterling?
Or are you just saying you're gonna print your own "poonds", which will be indexed one to one with the pound, and designed to be completely interchangeable, without asking the BoE first?
In that case I could print my own "paaaand" on bog roll, and say it exactly equals a pound, and then I could go to buy some dollars with my paaaand, and they'd tell me to f*ck off.
What I am saying is we will have a currency , just as every other country has. It will most likely be sterling initially in a deal with rumpUK, but could be just us using sterling or less likely another currency or joining the Euro. Lots and lots of options, and I have never known a country to be stuck for a currency. Given the amount of assets we have then it will not be hard to support a currency option.
Under Labour an accountant became CEO of RBS. He even received a knighthood. I don't think it would have been impossible for Labour/Gordon to engineer another of their mates into a high profile position.
Osborne seemed very keen to engineer that Gordons man got the Lloyds branches then didn't he. Nice conspiracy theory, up there with Brown and Salmond colluding over the release of Libyan prisoners
Stupidity. Still cleaning up Gordon and Labour's mess after they created a monopolistic group once they forced HBOS and Lloyds down the aisle, again aided by one of Gordon's mates.
Falkirk was the start, and now we have the Co-op. Haven't you noticed that together they have placed Labour completely on the defensive politically when the party should have been forging ahead on its cost of living agenda?
Much to tim's dismay (and hence financial contribution to a most worthy cause), the first impact has been on Ed's leadership ratings that are now behind Dave's, when most expected an increase in his lead. tim is now dumb and mute about next month's figures and rightly so.
We'll see about the impact on VI: I doubt it will be large if it all. But if even it falls back to 5-6% range of early summer that's a modest plus.
But as a serious pol yourself (don't be modest), you know it has put Labour on the backfoot for the present and that's NEVER a good thing for a party.
Yes, it shuts Labour up for a bit and maybe arrest some momentum they had. But really it is a diversion from what the Tories should be talking about. With this weeks debt figures, they are silly to talk about anything else. They need to focus their effort on forming these arguments.
I suspect the Co-op story will not stick to Labour, because the Rev Flowers is clearly such a unique case. People appear to find it funny.
Indeed. You acknowledge that harm has been done to Labour and politically that's important for us Blues (sorry 'Phil').
But the fact that Ed "I'm the Cooperative" Shadow Chancellor has become embroiled in the debacle gives the Tories the delicious double-whammy of contrasting its own economic success, including the falling deficit, with its incompetent and now less than wholesome opponents.
About which I feel we shall hear more at some length with the Autumn Statement in a couple of weeks time. It's all come together fortuitously I agree, but rather nicely all the same, wouldn't you agree?
I doubt people care as much as you think. It's more a colour story at the moment. You also underestimate the effort you need to put into actively selling your economic record.
In the meantime your strategy (including this focus on the co-op) is exclusively defensive. That is not a good place for a govt to be.
Morris, have to say , that is a load of bollocks. Scotland's currency is the pound , it will continue to be in the short term at least and rumpUK will be happy to share it despite the bluster of the morons in Westminster. The fact that supposedly educated people like yourself still write twaddle about UK banks being Scottish shows the level of the debate outside Scotland. We hear many threats from Westminster and you know what people can see right through them. I see the usual victim mode from English people here, just because someone does not lavish praise immediate umbrage is taken and the usual , Oh people are being nasty to me because I am English comes out. Nobody has anything against the English , the problem is that Westminster is bleeding Scotland dry , just as it does with much of England. Difference is we are going to do something about it. We will know soon enough who the dumplings are.
Of course it makes sense that Scotland can share the pound, at least for a transitional period (and if they want to continue to use it in perpetuity rather than switch to something else then they can do that).
*However* the Bank of England's mandate will be restricted to setting interest rates in the interests of rUK, not Scotland. Now, in practice, I suspect that the outcome will be little different to where it is today although the reduction of the importance of oil & gas in the rUK economy could have an impact.
In terms of banks, it was a key point in all the various deals of RBS and HBOS that the HQs remained in Scotland. However, the likelihood is that, given the size of the relative businesses (in Scotland vs rUK) and the need for a lender of last resort, these private companies will relocate their HQs to London over time. This will be painful - for instance, I think that RBS has about 3,000 well-paid jobs in Edinburgh. Some, of course, will remain, but a lot will follow the HQ location. It's not the end of the world, but it is another cost to Scotland of independence.
Fundamentally, though, it's up to the Scots to decide if the benefits of independence outweigh the costs.
Mr. G, whilst I concur Scotland will not face any serious problem joining the EU, it may very well be used by the Spanish and others to establish a certain process for new members that were previously part of an old member, to enable Madrid to block any future attempt by Catalonia to join.
Using the pound is feasible, but utterly at odds with the concept of independence..
It's either the pound or the euro, in both cases with a foreign central bank and foreign economic policy, so it really is hard to see how this tilts the referendum either way.
The difference is that the Scots would get a seat on the ECB. In any case, the EU may demand that an independent Scotland sign up to join the Euro, as has been policy for all new members since before the 2004 entrants joined.
LOL, pigs may fly. We have been members for 40 years.
No. The United Kingdom has been a member for 40 years. Scotland has been no more a member than Yorkshire has. If Scotland were to become independent, it would need to negotiate membership.
That membership would likely be granted quickly - and quite probably the accession / independence dates would be set to coincide - given that current Scots law is entirely compatible with EU law. However, Scotland would be legally regarded as a 'new' state (notwithstanding that there was once an independent Scotland in the distant past). It would not automatically take on the rights and duties (or some proportionate share thereof) of the previous UK. The question of currency would likely be quite a serious sticking point as it has been EU policy since around 2000 that all new members sign up to joining the Euro as soon as they meet the admission criteria.
David, any sensible person knows it will be be a simple rubber stamp and they will not force anyone into the Euro. It will be a carve up of current UK numbers initially and a full change later re numbers of representatives etc. It is a non issue in the debate.
And so the head-in-sand, fingers-in-ears response to any awkward question continues. But nice to see that from dictating terms to the rest of the UK, the SNP has now moved on to dictating them to the entire EU. One to file with "we'll just print sterling" (Why stop there? Why not print Swiss Francs or US Dollars as well?)
Yes, it shuts Labour up for a bit and maybe arrest some momentum they had. But really it is a diversion from what the Tories should be talking about. With this weeks debt figures, they are silly to talk about anything else. They need to focus their effort on forming these arguments.
I suspect the Co-op story will not stick to Labour, because the Rev Flowers is clearly such a unique case. People appear to find it funny.
Indeed. You acknowledge that harm has been done to Labour and politically that's important for us Blues (sorry 'Phil').
But the fact that Ed "I'm the Cooperative" Shadow Chancellor has become embroiled in the debacle gives the Tories the delicious double-whammy of contrasting its own economic success, including the falling deficit, with its incompetent and now less than wholesome opponents.
About which I feel we shall hear more at some length with the Autumn Statement in a couple of weeks time. It's all come together fortuitously I agree, but rather nicely all the same, wouldn't you agree?
I doubt people care as much as you think. It's more a colour story at the moment. You also underestimate the effort you need to put into actively selling your economic record.
In the meantime your strategy (including this focus on the co-op) is exclusively defensive. That is not a good place for a govt to be.
You what? The Toreis are having a field day on the attack on Flowers/Coop/Balls, moving on from Unite and Falkirk. In that sense, Labour is the gift that keeps on coming. And where is Ed M in all this??
On your economic argument point, I don't think there's been a PMQs since the early summer when Dave hasn't been baging on about rising growth, falling unemployment, reducing deficit, recordc low interest rates. And he and party activists need to keep on and on and on about it. And by and large we have time on our side - 18 months is surely enough - to put a convincing case for re-election in 2015.
Mr. G: "Dodgy given the indebtedness of the rumpUK..."
Whilst true that the UK is rather indebted, so would an independent Scotland be.
Morris, unfortunately yes, but less so than rumpUK given we have been in surplus for last 5 years, and can be cut by getting rid of unnecessary stuff that we do not like.
The question of currency would likely be quite a serious sticking point as it has been EU policy since around 2000 that all new members sign up to joining the Euro as soon as they meet the admission criteria.
'All other EU member states, except Denmark and the United Kingdom, are legally bound to join the euro when the convergence criteria are met, however only a few countries have set target dates for accession. Sweden has circumvented the requirement to join the euro by not meeting the membership criteria.'
The Toreis are having a field day on the attack on Flowers/Coop/Balls, moving on from Unite and Falkirk.
They might be enjoying it but emphasising the links between the Labour party and the interests of millions of ordinary workers and the interests of millions of ordinary consumers isnt exactly a killer strategy.
You appear to think I'm disappointed by Osborne and Camerons tactics
So anwer my question: will Ed overtake Dave in next month's MORI Leader ratings then?
A few weeks back you were challenging me to bet on November AND December, so confident were you then.
Still so cocky?
They're a statistical neck and neck over the last two months and remember the Golden Rule.
The Tory brand is dog shite, so Cameron needs a big lead over Miliband to keep his job.
LoL. So you don't now believe that Ed will regain the lead next month. Just say so, pimplemousse, we'll understand. Now how are you doing with tax threshold and NHB assignments? We expect better of you next week (though I'm not overly sanguine).
PbTories love cocktails: someday tim will learn. Possibly.
Morris, have to say , that is a load of bollocks. Scotland's currency is the pound , it will continue to be in the short term at least and rumpUK will be happy to share it despite the bluster of the morons in Westminster. The fact that supposedly educated people like yourself still write twaddle about UK banks being Scottish shows the level of the debate outside Scotland. We hear many threats from Westminster and you know what people can see right through them. I see the usual victim mode from English people here, just because someone does not lavish praise immediate umbrage is taken and the usual , Oh people are being nasty to me because I am English comes out. Nobody has anything against the English , the problem is that Westminster is bleeding Scotland dry , just as it does with much of England. Difference is we are going to do something about it. We will know soon enough who the dumplings are.
Of course it makes sense that Scotland can share the pound, at least for a transitional period (and if they want to continue to use it in perpetuity rather than switch to something else then they can do that).
*However* the Bank of England's mandate will be restricted to setting interest rates in the interests of rUK, not Scotland. Now, in practice, I suspect that the outcome will be little different to where it is today although the reduction of the importance of oil & gas in the rUK economy could have an impact.
In terms of banks, it was a key point in all the various deals of RBS and HBOS that the HQs remained in Scotland. However, the likelihood is that, given the size of the relative businesses (in Scotland vs rUK) and the need for a lender of last resort, these private companies will relocate their HQs to London over time. This will be painful - for instance, I think that RBS has about 3,000 well-paid jobs in Edinburgh. Some, of course, will remain, but a lot will follow the HQ location. It's not the end of the world, but it is another cost to Scotland of independence.
Fundamentally, though, it's up to the Scots to decide if the benefits of independence outweigh the costs.
Charles, there will be lots of moving one way or the other and hard to quantify overall but it is not a reason for yes or no either way. Most people will realise that the pluses will outweigh the minuses overall.
Mr. G, whilst I concur Scotland will not face any serious problem joining the EU, it may very well be used by the Spanish and others to establish a certain process for new members that were previously part of an old member, to enable Madrid to block any future attempt by Catalonia to join.
Morris , may be but I doubt it , it is not a major issue in peoples minds. many would prefer to be out , I doubt the EU will want to see Scotland out , it will most likely be a quick and simple process even if just to poke England in the eye.
You what? The Toreis are having a field day on the attack on Flowers/Coop/Balls, moving on from Unite and Falkirk. In that sense, Labour is the gift that keeps on coming. And where is Ed M in all this??
Reminds me of the various field days Labour had before 2010 that went nowhere.
The Toreis are having a field day on the attack on Flowers/Coop/Balls, moving on from Unite and Falkirk.
They might be enjoying it but emphasising the links between the Labour party and the interests of millions of ordinary workers and the interests of millions of ordinary consumers isnt exactly a killer strategy.
I see. Equating Len McCluskey to "millions of ordinary workers" and Rev Flowers/Ed Balls and a demonstrably useless Co-op Bank board to "millions of ordinary consumers" is going to wreak a terrible vengeance on the Conservatives.
The Toreis are having a field day on the attack on Flowers/Coop/Balls, moving on from Unite and Falkirk.
They might be enjoying it but emphasising the links between the Labour party and the interests of millions of ordinary workers and the interests of millions of ordinary consumers isnt exactly a killer strategy.
I see. Equating Len McCluskey to "millions of ordinary workers" and Rev Flowers/Ed Balls and a demonstrably useless Co-op Bank board to "millions of ordinary consumers" is going to wreak a terrible vengeance on the Conservatives.
I do think the Tories blind trashing of trade unions (seemingly moving on to cooperatives now) is some of the most stupidly counterproductive politics going on right now. If they dont end up regretting it then they should.
This paper from the UK government pretty much rules out any formal currency union twixt Scotland and rUK, except on terms which would be highly unpalatable to Scots: i.e. rUK unilaterally deciding Scottish tax rates, etc
Sean, will read that in depth later but a few points from the initial pages. If it is so good for UK just now , why would they want to be obtuse and not keep sterling together. Current deal does not just suit Scotland, it greatly suits UK in general. Also key point is that NO UK politician has categorically said it will not happen. They use lots of obfuscation and weasly words but NOT one has actually said NO. It is obvious that from an economy point of view it suits everybody for a sterling agreement to be in place.
It's not really a material point, as we agree Scotland won't have any serious problems. But the EU won't want to annoy England significantly as the prospect of us leaving is not impossible, and Spain won't want a completely straightforward precedent set for Catalonia.
I do think the Tories blind trashing of trade unions (seemingly moving on to cooperatives now) is some of the most stupidly counterproductive politics going on right now. If they dont end up regretting it then they should.
The challenge with that is many people do not benefit from trades union activity.
The window cleaner The accountant The shopkeeper The pensioner
Do not belong to trades unions, yet they are supposed to support trades unions, but the trades unions are there to support their members.
The Toreis are having a field day on the attack on Flowers/Coop/Balls, moving on from Unite and Falkirk.
They might be enjoying it but emphasising the links between the Labour party and the interests of millions of ordinary workers and the interests of millions of ordinary consumers isnt exactly a killer strategy.
I see. Equating Len McCluskey to "millions of ordinary workers" and Rev Flowers/Ed Balls and a demonstrably useless Co-op Bank board to "millions of ordinary consumers" is going to wreak a terrible vengeance on the Conservatives.
I do think the Tories blind trashing of trade unions (seemingly moving on to cooperatives now) is some of the most stupidly counterproductive politics going on right now. If they dont end up regretting it then they should.
Now you're being utterly idiotic which is unusual. Cameron has regularly and rightly personified the attack on McCluskey rather than union members (indeed in the last but one PMQs he went out of his way to praise them). And where is the assault on cooperatives as a whole rather than the disaster that has been the Co-op Bank and the Co-operative Party which is a wholly owned political subsidiary of the Labour Party, like the Nat Libs were of the Tories.
Analysis of the Scottish voting intentions contained in the latest sub-samples across six polling companies for UK wide polls in the last two weeks has shown that the SNP leading the field in people’s voting intentions for a Westminster election.
Speaking of squirrels, pretty sure we've got a breeding pair nearby. I wonder if sparrowhawks would kill squirrels (we've got a breeding pair of them too).
Now you're being utterly idiotic which is unusual. Cameron has regularly and rightly personified the attack on McCluskey rather than union members
The distinction is not being clearly made. And his government is going out of its way to attack the entire movement and not just McCluskey (spending tens of thousands of taxpayers money to try to end check-off in civil service departments, the ridiculous provisions of the lobbying bill etc..). Cameron clearly leads a party is the trying to undermine trade unions' abilities to represent millions of ordinary workers. And one that is happy to have rhetoric that matches that policy line. I'm surprised you dont see that.
That membership would likely be granted quickly - and quite probably the accession / independence dates would be set to coincide - given that current Scots law is entirely compatible with EU law. However, Scotland would be legally regarded as a 'new' state (notwithstanding that there was once an independent Scotland in the distant past). It would not automatically take on the rights and duties (or some proportionate share thereof) of the previous UK. The question of currency would likely be quite a serious sticking point as it has been EU policy since around 2000 that all new members sign up to joining the Euro as soon as they meet the admission criteria.
David, any sensible person knows it will be be a simple rubber stamp and they will not force anyone into the Euro. It will be a carve up of current UK numbers initially and a full change later re numbers of representatives etc. It is a non issue in the debate.
And so the head-in-sand, fingers-in-ears response to any awkward question continues. But nice to see that from dictating terms to the rest of the UK, the SNP has now moved on to dictating them to the entire EU. One to file with "we'll just print sterling" (Why stop there? Why not print Swiss Francs or US Dollars as well?)
david, How did you jump from my personal opinion to the SNP dictating to the EU. Also where did you get the "we'll just print sterling", if your Tory blinkers were off you would have seen that I said we could just use sterling , it can be bought freely anywhere. People do it every day. I fail to see how you get the impression that I am the official SNP spokesman.
And so the head-in-sand, fingers-in-ears response to any awkward question continues. But nice to see that from dictating terms to the rest of the UK, the SNP has now moved on to dictating them to the entire EU. One to file with "we'll just print sterling" (Why stop there? Why not print Swiss Francs or US Dollars as well?)
david, How did you jump from my personal opinion to the SNP dictating to the EU. Also where did you get the "we'll just print sterling", if your Tory blinkers were off you would have seen that I said we could just use sterling , it can be bought freely anywhere. People do it every day. I fail to see how you get the impression that I am the official SNP spokesman.
Using the pound is feasible, but utterly at odds with the concept of independence..
It's either the pound or the euro, in both cases with a foreign central bank and foreign economic policy, so it really is hard to see how this tilts the referendum either way.
The difference is that the Scots would get a seat on the ECB. In any case, the EU may demand that an independent Scotland sign up to join the Euro, as has been policy for all new members since before the 2004 entrants joined.
LOL, pigs may fly. We have been members for 40 years.
No. they meet the admission criteria.
David, any sensible person knows it will be be a simple rubber stamp and they will not force anyone into the Euro. It will be a carve up of current UK numbers initially and a full change later re numbers of representatives etc. It is a non issue in the debate.
And so the head-in-sand, fingers-in-ears response to any awkward question continues. But nice to see that from dictating terms to the rest of the UK, the SNP has now moved on to dictating them to the entire EU. One to file with "we'll just print sterling" (Why stop there? Why not print Swiss Francs or US Dollars as well?)
I like malcolmg's debating style, though.
"Any fool knows an independent Scotland will be able to turn haggis into uranium within 7 months", "any sensible person realises Alex Salmond is 19 miles tall and will personally move Scotland nearer Spain so we have better weather".
And so forth.
Sean, We are good but I would never boast like that , and would certainly not waste good haggis turning it into uranium. The weather one on the other hand would be very nice, even though the sun has shone for 3 days now.
Public spending in Wales is 110 per cent of the UK average, according to figures released by the Treasury today. A Treasury "infographic" (their word, not mine) sets it out rather clearly.
"Identifiable public spending" in Wales (by UK and devolved governments) was £9,709 per head last year, compared to £8,529 in England (97 per cent of the UK average).
Public spending in Scotland is £10,152 per head (116% of the UK average), and in Northern Ireland £10,665 (124% of the UK average). The comparable figure for London appears to be £9,435.
Mr. T, without commenting on IQs of Britons, I believe (as per QI) that Alsatians are banned from the Spanish army because their IQ is too low (60, I think, and you need an IQ of about 70 or so to join the Spanish army).
In all seriousness, that'll mean that the average Alsatian will be cleverer than a small but significant (perhaps 0.5-1%) of humans.
It'd be interesting to know the IQs of bears and dolphins, and elephants... hmm. I may need to look into this.
Comments
1. It is a part of the Labour movement and sponsers more than 30 Labour MPs providing significant financial support.
2. Ed Balls is particularly closely involved and got £50K from them recently. He also seems to have played a part in the disastrous Britannnia decision which raises genuine questions about his financial acumen.
3. There are also less direct links to Ed Miliband in the advisory positions Flowers held. Yet another very poor choice by Ed.
4. It demonstrates for all to see the rank hypocrisy of a party that had 6 of its MPs convicted (all other parties: none) but still believe that they are in some way morally superior.
5. There is a real risk that Labour's finances may at least be constrained by this limiting their election spend.
6. It really is quite funny in parts.
Will that do to be going on with?
(1) Co-op bank goes bust
(2) Taxpayers bail it out
(3) Labour overdraft gets written off
What does bemuse me about the bank is just how big a disaster it has become for the group. Other supermarket groups realised that they had a vast cash flow from retail transactions, and that with clever manipulation of payment terms they could buy product from suppliers, sell it at a profit to consumers, invest the revenue for a month or two, make another profit, and then pay the suppliers for the stock they originally bought.
Tesco and Sainsbury needed banking partners to get their banks going as joint venture businesses, Co-op had their own bank to partner with. That should have given the Co-op a big advantage over the others, as has been noted their banking practices were as PPItiful as the rest. And yet here we are with the rest of the group initially trying to raise money from suppliers to bail out the bank, then having to sell it to Hostile Takeover Bank Inc.
Incidentally, the Co-operative party being a "trading name of Labour" - nice try. They have their own party complete with leadership, structure, policies etc.
Darling left red-faced as 'bust' nations overtake UK in world prosperity index
Head of the anti-independence campaign Alistair Darling has been left red faced today after the latest prosperity table showed the UK has been overtaken by two countries he claimed this week were “bust”.
According to the latest publication from the Legatum Prosperity Index, Ireland and Iceland have now overtaken the United Kingdom in the most prosperous league table.
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-economy/8381-darling-left-red-faced-as-bust-nations-overtake-uk-in-world-prosperity-index
It would all depend on trust but if Farage could make Cameron pledge somewhere close to full blown OUT and perhaps some positioning and distancing for the tory party and all MPs on any official line involving campaigning for IN, then you just never know. If it's put into the future past the election then Cammie might jump at the chance and deal with the fallout later.
Farage himself knows it's a just remote possibility but he also knows the pressure of staring an election in the face with UKIP still riding high (and we had best remember anything well above 3% is going to put the fear of god into Cammie and tory MPs in marginal seats) is going to concentrate tory minds immensely.
The kippers have not crashed and burned since the May elections. They've went down but now they seem to have settled. Anything like the 12%(ish) they're on now is more than enough to cause electoral carnage for the tories. This is also likely the kippers low point between last May and next May's EU elections.
2.Ed Balls` role as a Treasury minister was to support a Tory,I repeat Tory private member bill to create super-mutuals.Where`s the scandal?
3.I cannot even write about Cameron`s media links on this site without being moderated.So funny a Tory mentioning the leader`s links.
4.So Tory politicians weren`t convicted of expenses and didn`t go to prison then?
5.No comment
6.It is really quite funny.
If history had taken a different course then you would also be criticising. ISTR that the Co-op Bank wanted this deal, and wanted it badly (perhaps we can now see the reasons why). If the government had not let the deal go ahead without good reason, you would be bleating on about government interference. And in that case, rightly.
To recap:
1) Lloyds-TSB/HBOS needed splitting by EC decree.
2) They had a willing party to take over part of the company.
3) That party seemed viable.
It made sense for it to go ahead, and for the government to encourage it..
And remember, there was a deadline for the end of this year.
The Spads in no10 find this sort of stuff irresistible.
Attending a fund-raising dinner, the Shadow Chancellor boasted that he was the ‘Co-operative Shadow Chancellor’ who was ‘looking forward to taking co-operation into the Treasury when we get the chance’.
Mr Balls also said the bank would go from ‘strength to strength’ – even though disgraced chairman Paul Flowers had just been forced out for what it is now known to be major concerns about his expenses.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2512181/Ill-Co-op-Chancellor.html#ixzz2lSjW5vEc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvcu5V76OrM
How does Labour find, fund and support these numpties...?
Companies that are active in multiple segments and have complex organisations need strong and effective management and strong governance. This should mean selection on merit (clearly the typical private sector organisation doesn't always get it right). So, organisations such as a John Lewis or Hollister can be very successful as employee-owned mutuals because there is very effective accountability.
Similarly small organisations like credit unions can work because they are relatively simple and the key stakeholders usually know the management personally (our own organisation also benefits from the board having a broader sense of responsibility to stakeholders not just shareholders)
FWIW, as I understand it, Flowers "appeared from nowhere". I mentioned yesterday that I spent a couple of hours with a former Co-op Group Chairman who said that he had never come across Flowers before he was appointed to the Board.
Nor would the scottish public have any trouble believing that a referendum would be forthcoming since, unlike the incompetent fop Cammie and his Cast Iron Promises, the scottish public know full well the commitment to deliver an independence referendum wasn't spin but reality.
Still waiting for you to link Osbrowne ruling out a currency union.
Now you can also link to where the incompetent fop Cammie says he supports IN or OUT for his own Cast Iron Referendum? Or is the incompetent fop still hopelessly confused about what he wants?
Falkirk was the start, and now we have the Co-op. Haven't you noticed that together they have placed Labour completely on the defensive politically when the party should have been forging ahead on its cost of living agenda?
Much to tim's dismay (and hence financial contribution to a most worthy cause), the first impact has been on Ed's leadership ratings that are now behind Dave's, when most expected an increase in his lead. tim is now dumb and mute about next month's figures and rightly so.
We'll see about the impact on VI: I doubt it will be large if it all. But if even it falls back to 5-6% range of early summer that's a modest plus.
But as a serious pol yourself (don't be modest), you know it has put Labour on the backfoot for the present and that's NEVER a good thing for a party.
They need to explain what they did, and how that led to an improvement. A difficult job. No time to waste.
Gerry Adams and his family are obviously inbred crims. The count [sp?] needs some 'subtle persuation'....
Perhaps it might be better for them to apply some introspection, and ask themselves why they got their growth argument so wrong ...
(2) Because the co-op were all high and mighty about their ethics, and it is good to see them taken down a peg or two.
Given the doom and gloom from the paid Westminster monkeys , Cameron may after all get what he wants and easily win the next election. He may indeed be very clever having Darling as the union figurehead and the empty barrel Carmichael as Governor General.
be in the EU
keep the pound
be NATO members
Do you think 'Free Unicorns' will be in Tuesday's White Paper & if the vote won the UK obliged to supply them?
That's Swinney's logic on the pound.....maybe they've missed an opportunity.....
I suspect the Co-op story will not stick to Labour, because the Rev Flowers is clearly such a unique case. People appear to find it funny.
EU elections are coming and immigration is again heading right up the political agenda.
That membership would likely be granted quickly - and quite probably the accession / independence dates would be set to coincide - given that current Scots law is entirely compatible with EU law. However, Scotland would be legally regarded as a 'new' state (notwithstanding that there was once an independent Scotland in the distant past). It would not automatically take on the rights and duties (or some proportionate share thereof) of the previous UK. The question of currency would likely be quite a serious sticking point as it has been EU policy since around 2000 that all new members sign up to joining the Euro as soon as they meet the admission criteria.
Don't know if she can go any further off the top of my head.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2512181/Ill-Co-op-Chancellor.html#ixzz2lSot801E
Never met him, no idea who he was, only a minor figure, out of his depth, nothing to see, move along, use moral equivalence line they are all at it, hosted event at Tory Conference, never met our dear Leader, non person, non story, Rev Paul Who Flowers?.
Besides growth only returned when Osborne relaxed austerity silently,so two and half years later than expected! Paul Krugman the Nobel winner for economics remarked about Osborne`s plan. recently
`Osborne and Cameron were banging their heads on the wall and everyone advised them not to do so as it would hurt.Then they stopped banging their heads on the wall and realised their heads no longer hurt and declared their plan of banging their heads on the wall as a success`.
You may now feel free to shriek eccentrically about unicorns or Flowers as we await the next colossal scottish tory surge.
If you can come back and correct the facts, I'll happily explain what the comment meant.
But the fact that Ed "I'm the Cooperative" Shadow Chancellor has become embroiled in the debacle gives the Tories the delicious double-whammy of contrasting its own economic success, including the falling deficit, with its incompetent and now less than wholesome opponents.
About which I feel we shall hear more at some length with the Autumn Statement in a couple of weeks time. It's all come together fortuitously I agree, but rather nicely all the same, wouldn't you agree?
Universities 'can segregate men and women for debates'
A group of university leaders issued guidance saying that it may be acceptable to separate genders, as long as they are segregated side by side
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/10468115/Universities-can-segregate-men-and-women-for-debates.html
Whilst true that the UK is rather indebted, so would an independent Scotland be.
A few weeks back you were challenging me to bet on November AND December, so confident were you then.
Still so cocky?
Not just on immigration either. His own MPs don't trust him on Europe and many PB tories are squarely in the Farage camp on climate change and some other issues, not Cammie's ever changing 'beliefs'.
Say what you will about the kippers but at least they are getting what they believe in. Some of the Cameroons and many PB tories put up with Cammie just because he is in power, not because they trust or believe in what he does. They are to be pitied.
FPTP used to mean the tories didn't need to worry about the kippers. Not any more.
In the meantime your strategy (including this focus on the co-op) is exclusively defensive. That is not a good place for a govt to be.
*However* the Bank of England's mandate will be restricted to setting interest rates in the interests of rUK, not Scotland. Now, in practice, I suspect that the outcome will be little different to where it is today although the reduction of the importance of oil & gas in the rUK economy could have an impact.
In terms of banks, it was a key point in all the various deals of RBS and HBOS that the HQs remained in Scotland. However, the likelihood is that, given the size of the relative businesses (in Scotland vs rUK) and the need for a lender of last resort, these private companies will relocate their HQs to London over time. This will be painful - for instance, I think that RBS has about 3,000 well-paid jobs in Edinburgh. Some, of course, will remain, but a lot will follow the HQ location. It's not the end of the world, but it is another cost to Scotland of independence.
Fundamentally, though, it's up to the Scots to decide if the benefits of independence outweigh the costs.
On your economic argument point, I don't think there's been a PMQs since the early summer when Dave hasn't been baging on about rising growth, falling unemployment, reducing deficit, recordc low interest rates. And he and party activists need to keep on and on and on about it. And by and large we have time on our side - 18 months is surely enough - to put a convincing case for re-election in 2015.
http://tinyurl.com/p9mbhtj
PbTories love cocktails: someday tim will learn. Possibly.
An interesting proposition.
It's not really a material point, as we agree Scotland won't have any serious problems. But the EU won't want to annoy England significantly as the prospect of us leaving is not impossible, and Spain won't want a completely straightforward precedent set for Catalonia.
The window cleaner
The accountant
The shopkeeper
The pensioner
Do not belong to trades unions, yet they are supposed to support trades unions, but the trades unions are there to support their members.
Who is there to support these people?
Analysis of the Scottish voting intentions contained in the latest sub-samples across six polling companies for UK wide polls in the last two weeks has shown that the SNP leading the field in people’s voting intentions for a Westminster election.
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2013/nov/snp-continue-lead-westminster-voting-intentions
Besides, Tim often accuses me of extreme verbosity. It therefore make sense to limit posts to lengths he can understand ...
Scotch on the rocks
A new report on finances north of the border is a headache for nationalists
http://www.economist.com/news/britain/21590592-new-report-finances-north-border-headache-nationalists-scotch-rocks
david, How did you jump from my personal opinion to the SNP dictating to the EU. Also where did you get the "we'll just print sterling", if your Tory blinkers were off you would have seen that I said we could just use sterling , it can be bought freely anywhere. People do it every day. I fail to see how you get the impression that I am the official SNP spokesman.
"Identifiable public spending" in Wales (by UK and devolved governments) was £9,709 per head last year, compared to £8,529 in England (97 per cent of the UK average).
Public spending in Scotland is £10,152 per head (116% of the UK average), and in Northern Ireland £10,665 (124% of the UK average). The comparable figure for London appears to be £9,435.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-25039137
Full details for country and regional analysis are at:
:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/260220/Country_and_Regional_Analysis_2013.pdf
You think trade unions are interested in representing the rights of millions of ordinary workers?
Blimey.
There's me thinking workers were mere fodder in a hate driven campaign to smash the English middle class.
In all seriousness, that'll mean that the average Alsatian will be cleverer than a small but significant (perhaps 0.5-1%) of humans.
It'd be interesting to know the IQs of bears and dolphins, and elephants... hmm. I may need to look into this.
Still bringing a smile to the home counties. Gawd bless you.