Is there some part of "drug and porn claims", "nightmare" or "disbelief" that eludes you?
The only reason there is any story whatsoever is because of what Flowers has been exposed to have done in his private life. So if Cammie wants to make this all about Flowers and his links to labour and it's leadership then he'd best be prepared for the consequences.
'Nightmare' - at the Co-operative Bank, not in Paul Flowers' private life.
'Disbelief' - that someone with so little banking experience and knowledge was appointed chair of the bank.
Yes, maybe the current events were triggered (at least in part) by Flowers' private activities. But the issues of real significance revolve around his appointment as Bank chair and his links with Labour, and those are what the Tories seem to be focusing on. We'll see how things pan out; but in the meantime shall we just agree to differ?
Cameron is wrong to be pressing the Flowers issue. The government didn't own or run Co-op bank and therefore has an interest at arms length only. As far as I'm aware there are no regulations (nor should there be) about the way in which executives of private companies conduct their lives. There are certain rules in place with regards to prior convictions and the like which the regulator enforces. I don't think there are question marks there.
Therefore as far as I can see this is not a matter for government involvement. One of the primary reasons I vote Tory is because they tend to be the party of less state involvement rather tan more. I'm not going to abandon that theme just because it may suit party politics in the short term.
'Yes, maybe the current events were triggered (at least in part) by Flowers' private activities. But the issues of real significance revolve around his appointment as Bank chair and his links with Labour, and those are what the Tories seem to be focusing on. We'll see how things pan out; but in the meantime shall we just agree to differ?
Either this is a story about Flowers and his links to labour or it's just a story about Flowers private life and the bank. There is no process or questions and links to labour/little Ed without what Flowers has done in his private life. That is the story. Everything is concomitant on Flowers having done something wrong in his private life. Which he has. The point you are also missing is that while there are clearly questions to be asked about Flowers some people are more suited to ask those questions than others.
Flowers colourful private life has drawn attention to the Co-op bank and its relationships, but the serious business is its overall governance, both in terms of how it mishandled its finances, and the web of connections around these finances. Bearing in mind how misgovernment of banks has landed our government with some very expensive obligations, I think it an entirely reasonable area for a proper open enquiry. Dodgy bank practices need exposure.
'Yes, maybe the current events were triggered (at least in part) by Flowers' private activities. But the issues of real significance revolve around his appointment as Bank chair and his links with Labour, and those are what the Tories seem to be focusing on. We'll see how things pan out; but in the meantime shall we just agree to differ?
Either this is a story about Flowers and his links to labour or it's just a story about Flowers private life and the bank. There is no process or questions and links to labour/little Ed without what Flowers has done in his private life. That is the story. Everything is concomitant on Flowers having done something wrong in his private life. Which he has. The point you are also missing is that while there are clearly questions to be asked about Flowers some people are more suited to ask those questions than others.
Either this is a story about Flowers and his links to labour or it's just a story about Flowers private life and the bank. There is no process or questions and links to labour/little Ed without what Flowers has done in his private life. That is the story. Everything is concomitant on Flowers having done something wrong in his private life. Which he has. The point you are also missing is that while there are clearly questions to be asked about Flowers some people are more suited to ask those questions than others.
Yes, but it's the fact that Flowers' private conduct casts doubt on his suitability as chair of the bank. And also whether Labour ignored / hushed up concerns over his private conduct. See, for example, the Telegraph website:
"Labour's 'cover-up' over Co-op bank chief
Independent inquiry ordered into how Rev Paul Flowers was appointed chairman of a major British bank, amid allegations Labour Party covered up concerns about his conduct"
Either this is a story about Flowers and his links to labour or it's just a story about Flowers private life and the bank. There is no process or questions and links to labour/little Ed without what Flowers has done in his private life. That is the story. Everything is concomitant on Flowers having done something wrong in his private life. Which he has. The point you are also missing is that while there are clearly questions to be asked about Flowers some people are more suited to ask those questions than others.
Yes, but it's the fact that Flowers' private conduct casts doubt on his suitability as chair of the bank. And also whether Labour ignored / hushed up concerns over his private conduct. See, for example, the Telegraph website:
"Labour's 'cover-up' over Co-op bank chief
Independent inquiry ordered into how Rev Paul Flowers was appointed chairman of a major British bank, amid allegations Labour Party covered up concerns about his conduct"
Exactly. It's all about what Flowers has done in his private life. THEN you can start pointing fingers if you choose to. If Flowers was just another banker then it's self-evidently not a story.
Flowers is not just another banker though, he was a Labour councillor, gave advice to senior Labour politicians and was ultimately in charge of Labours overdraft.
Either this is a story about Flowers and his links to labour or it's just a story about Flowers private life and the bank. There is no process or questions and links to labour/little Ed without what Flowers has done in his private life. That is the story. Everything is concomitant on Flowers having done something wrong in his private life. Which he has. The point you are also missing is that while there are clearly questions to be asked about Flowers some people are more suited to ask those questions than others.
Yes, but it's the fact that Flowers' private conduct casts doubt on his suitability as chair of the bank. And also whether Labour ignored / hushed up concerns over his private conduct. See, for example, the Telegraph website:
"Labour's 'cover-up' over Co-op bank chief
Independent inquiry ordered into how Rev Paul Flowers was appointed chairman of a major British bank, amid allegations Labour Party covered up concerns about his conduct"
Exactly. It's all about what Flowers has done in his private life. THEN you can start pointing fingers if you choose to. If Flowers was just another banker then it's self-evidently not a story.
Flowers is not just another banker though, he was a Labour councillor, gave advice to senior Labour politicians and was ultimately in charge of Labours overdraft.
As they say: Follow the money...
None of which matters unless Flowers and his private life is the story. Which it is.
Well, as someone who has part of their savings with the Co-op I sure as hell want to know what's been going on! I'm sorry it's someone who is supposed to be on my side of the political divide who is in the brown stuff (and apparently the white stuff) but that doesn't alter my feelings.
How the whatsit did they manage to manage so badly?
I should go to bed but I'm listening to a sneaky few overs of the cricket, and... Rogers is out! Bowled Broad (ha ha), caught Bell at midwicket, I think it was. Woo-hoo!
Well, as someone who has part of their savings with the Co-op I sure as hell want to know what's been going on!
So do some of those at the co-op bank seemingly. I'll reiterate it again. Flowers behaviour merits serious questions for the bank that they will have to answer. Turning it into a political football with Cammie leading the charge trying to link little Ed and labour to Flowers and his behaviour however.. Not very wise, not very wise at all.
Even Clegg would be a better choice, which is saying something.
February 2010 - Paul Flowers attends Downing Street reception, with Ed Miliband present April 2010 - Flowers appointed chairman of Co-op Bank and vice-chairman of Co-op Group September 2011 - Flowers resigns as Labour councillor in Bradford after pornography is found on his council laptop 31 March 2012 - Co-op Group donates £50,000 through Labour Party to support shadow chancellor Ed Balls' office 6 March 2013 - Ed Miliband meets Flowers to discuss banking reform 1 April 2013 - Labour takes out £1.2m loan from Co-op Bank, to be repaid by 2016
The Bank of England has launched an inquiry into how the £1.5bn capital black hole at the Co-operative Bank came to be discovered in May this year.
The Sunday Telegraph reports the Prudential Regulation Authority is carrying out the review to assess whether the PRA and the FSA could have done more in their roles as supervisors of the Co-op Bank, and whether the capital shortfall should have been revealed sooner.
The review will look at correspondence including letters, emails and telephone calls, and look at how regulators assessed the Co-op’s books. The review is expected to date back to before the Co-op merged with Britannia Building Society in January 2009.
Regulators will also examine what changed between March this year when the Co-op Bank published its 2012 accounts citing a tier one capital ratio of 9.2 per cent, and June when it was revealed the bank has a £1.5bn shortfall.
February 2010 - Paul Flowers attends Downing Street reception, with Ed Miliband present April 2010 - Flowers appointed chairman of Co-op Bank and vice-chairman of Co-op Group September 2011 - Flowers resigns as Labour councillor in Bradford after pornography is found on his council laptop 31 March 2012 - Co-op Group donates £50,000 through Labour Party to support shadow chancellor Ed Balls' office 6 March 2013 - Ed Miliband meets Flowers to discuss banking reform 1 April 2013 - Labour takes out £1.2m loan from Co-op Bank, to be repaid by 2016
February 2010 - Paul Flowers attends Downing Street reception, with Ed Miliband present April 2010 - Flowers appointed chairman of Co-op Bank and vice-chairman of Co-op Group September 2011 - Flowers resigns as Labour councillor in Bradford after pornography is found on his council laptop 31 March 2012 - Co-op Group donates £50,000 through Labour Party to support shadow chancellor Ed Balls' office 6 March 2013 - Ed Miliband meets Flowers to discuss banking reform 1 April 2013 - Labour takes out £1.2m loan from Co-op Bank, to be repaid by 2016
Presumably Flowers was on the board of the Co-op Bank before he was appointed Chair? If so it wouldn't be unreasonable for him to be at a reception at the same time as EdM.
I think one of the first "political"things, apart from elections, I recall is my parents and grandparents talking about the collapse of my grandparents local co-op, due to sexual shenanigans, this time by the CEO. That was around 60 years ago. The personal ramifications for several people not directly associated were huge.
February 2010 - Paul Flowers attends Downing Street reception, with Ed Miliband present April 2010 - Flowers appointed chairman of Co-op Bank and vice-chairman of Co-op Group September 2011 - Flowers resigns as Labour councillor in Bradford after pornography is found on his council laptop 31 March 2012 - Co-op Group donates £50,000 through Labour Party to support shadow chancellor Ed Balls' office 6 March 2013 - Ed Miliband meets Flowers to discuss banking reform 1 April 2013 - Labour takes out £1.2m loan from Co-op Bank, to be repaid by 2016
71-2 at lunch. Broad's been expensive, but he's got the wickets.
Expensive is a strong word. He's gone for a few, but not overly so. That was a shocker of a shot in the circumstances from Watson. The Warner pick offers a profit but I would really like England to whip him out before tea or he'll have done some damage.
Point taken about Broad. Should have said comparatively expensive. Or perhaps least economical. He's conceded a no-ball as well, though. I'm not watching …… can't get sky here ……. so can't comment on shot, but do agree about Warner. It's time he was out!
It's hard to see Flowers as having any relevance to Labour. Who cares frankly.
Time will tell. - However, after all the faux outrage generated over various political party donors in the past, I don’t think we’ve ever had serially inept, bank busting, coke snorting pill popping, rent boy abusing, convicted cottage loiterer before.
The shadow chancellor has out down himself - Ed Balls, take a bow.
Point taken about Broad. Should have said comparatively expensive. Or perhaps least economical. He's conceded a no-ball as well, though. I'm not watching …… can't get sky here ……. so can't comment on shot, but do agree about Warner. It's time he was out!
England are all over them. They were saying England might struggle with a short bouncing ball. Well it sure looks like the Aussies are.
So we could find out that when Hodges says "a source close to", it could actually mean the voices in his head OR the sources he has are taking him for a fool and are feeding him crap OR there is a poll that the Tories have which has changed the marginal results from a 14% Labour lead to a 2% Tory lead when you mention the incumbent MP.
If it is the second one, Hodges will look pretty silly. Not that he doesn't anyway. If it is the first one he will look a bit of a loon. If it is the third one, most people including the person who funded the original poll will be very surprised.
Even if it is the second one, the Tories will say they did nothing of the sort and most people will think it was the voices in his head.
So, barring the third option....Hodges to loonsville.
Also, do you not think it strange that he releases that article when the Labour lead falls to 4%. Must have been waiting ages for that to come along.
So we could find out that when Hodges says "a source close to", it could actually mean the voices in his head OR the sources he has are taking him for a fool and are feeding him crap OR there is a poll that the Tories have which has changed the marginal results from a 14% Labour lead to a 2% Tory lead when you mention the incumbent MP.
If it is the second one, Hodges will look pretty silly. Not that he doesn't anyway. If it is the first one he will look a bit of a loon. If it is the third one, most people including the person who funded the original poll will be very surprised.
Even if it is the second one, the Tories will say they did nothing of the sort and most people will think it was the voices in his head.
So, barring the third option....Hodges to loonsville.
Also, do you not think it strange that he releases that article when the Labour lead falls to 4%. Must have been waiting ages for that to come along.
February 2010 - Paul Flowers attends Downing Street reception, with Ed Miliband present April 2010 - Flowers appointed chairman of Co-op Bank and vice-chairman of Co-op Group September 2011 - Flowers resigns as Labour councillor in Bradford after pornography is found on his council laptop 31 March 2012 - Co-op Group donates £50,000 through Labour Party to support shadow chancellor Ed Balls' office 6 March 2013 - Ed Miliband meets Flowers to discuss banking reform 1 April 2013 - Labour takes out £1.2m loan from Co-op Bank, to be repaid by 2016
The scandal surrounding former Co-op Bank chief Paul Flowers deepened last night after it was revealed he quit a drugs charity over allegations of up to £150,000 in false expenses claims.
The Methodist minister – under police investigation for buying crystal meth and crack cocaine – was suspended by the Lifeline Project after allegedly lodging ‘significant’ false claims between 1992 and 2004.
The Manchester-based charity conducted a full investigation, but former Co-op chairman Flowers, who was its chairman of trustees, resigned before its conclusion.
Last night, charity chief executive Ian Wardle confirmed the Charity Commission was informed of the findings but it is not thought any action was taken.
Mr Wardle described the money as a ‘significant sum’ which required a ‘lengthy and thorough investigation’.
The revelations will only reinforce concerns that City regulators, the Co-op board and Labour failed to adequately investigate the past of the drug-taking minister who was once invited to Ed Miliband’s office for private talks.
When Labour win the next election and Cameron is given the royal order of the boot, Lord Ashcroft will give the Tory Party an "I told you so" and will be in a strong position when the next leader takes over. Will the next leader take him back on board or will he take the Cameron approach?
February 2010 - Paul Flowers attends Downing Street reception, with Ed Miliband present April 2010 - Flowers appointed chairman of Co-op Bank and vice-chairman of Co-op Group September 2011 - Flowers resigns as Labour councillor in Bradford after pornography is found on his council laptop 31 March 2012 - Co-op Group donates £50,000 through Labour Party to support shadow chancellor Ed Balls' office 6 March 2013 - Ed Miliband meets Flowers to discuss banking reform 1 April 2013 - Labour takes out £1.2m loan from Co-op Bank, to be repaid by 2016
This won't backfire horribly at all.
LOL
Impressive that timeline. Full of coincidences.
Which Cameron is utterly well placed to take full advantage of with his Back to Basics campaign to rid public life of morally unfit people like Flowers.
The scandal surrounding former Co-op Bank chief Paul Flowers deepened last night after it was revealed he quit a drugs charity over allegations of up to £150,000 in false expenses claims.
The Methodist minister – under police investigation for buying crystal meth and crack cocaine – was suspended by the Lifeline Project after allegedly lodging ‘significant’ false claims between 1992 and 2004.
The Manchester-based charity conducted a full investigation, but former Co-op chairman Flowers, who was its chairman of trustees, resigned before its conclusion.
Last night, charity chief executive Ian Wardle confirmed the Charity Commission was informed of the findings but it is not thought any action was taken...
Good grief. I really hope the allegations were judged to be unfounded, as £150,000 is an awful lot of money for a charity not get the police involved over.
And this Ian Wardle fellow is presumably related to Len Wardle, the now former chair of the Co-operative Group? That's interesting as well...
YG continuing its long period of essential stability - today's poll is nice but I genuinely don't think anything is really happening at the moment to voting intention. The separate YG poll on preferences on tax and spending illustrates the reason - the Tory/UKIP responses and Lab/LibDem responses are entirely different, as though taken from different tribes. If you think that it's time to raise taxes so as to restore spending cuts, you're really not up for voting Tory because, wow, GDP is up 1% or a Coop banker is found to have a dodgy past.
The Revd Paul Flowers ticked all the right 'progressive' boxes — that's why he could get away with anything Sustainability. Tick! Inclusivity. Tick! Fairtrade. Tick! All that mattered to Labour was the Crystal Methodist's show of liberal piety
It is a lot of expenses. No matter what happened in a job it seems that nothing could hold up Flowers career in the Co-op or stop him being selected as Labour councillor.
What did he bring to the party that couldnt be found elsewhere?
The scandal surrounding former Co-op Bank chief Paul Flowers deepened last night after it was revealed he quit a drugs charity over allegations of up to £150,000 in false expenses claims.
The Methodist minister – under police investigation for buying crystal meth and crack cocaine – was suspended by the Lifeline Project after allegedly lodging ‘significant’ false claims between 1992 and 2004.
The Manchester-based charity conducted a full investigation, but former Co-op chairman Flowers, who was its chairman of trustees, resigned before its conclusion.
Last night, charity chief executive Ian Wardle confirmed the Charity Commission was informed of the findings but it is not thought any action was taken...
Good grief. I really hope the allegations were judged to be unfounded, as £150,000 is an awful lot of money for a charity not get the police involved over.
And this Ian Wardle fellow is presumably related to Len Wardle, the now former chair of the Co-operative Group? That's interesting as well...
It is a lot of expenses. No matter what happened in a job it seems that nothing could hold up Flowers career in the Co-op or stop him being selected as Labour councillor.
What did he bring to the party that couldnt be found elsewhere?
The scandal surrounding former Co-op Bank chief Paul Flowers deepened last night after it was revealed he quit a drugs charity over allegations of up to £150,000 in false expenses claims.
The Methodist minister – under police investigation for buying crystal meth and crack cocaine – was suspended by the Lifeline Project after allegedly lodging ‘significant’ false claims between 1992 and 2004.
The Manchester-based charity conducted a full investigation, but former Co-op chairman Flowers, who was its chairman of trustees, resigned before its conclusion.
Last night, charity chief executive Ian Wardle confirmed the Charity Commission was informed of the findings but it is not thought any action was taken...
Good grief. I really hope the allegations were judged to be unfounded, as £150,000 is an awful lot of money for a charity not get the police involved over.
And this Ian Wardle fellow is presumably related to Len Wardle, the now former chair of the Co-operative Group? That's interesting as well...
Rev Flowers seems to have managed all the Deadly Sins by himself. I'm astonished about his alleged expenses - that's a mind boggling sum.
Another day, more reams of dreary spam about "man buys drugs/shags man"
That's weird, because I've seen posts this morning about allegations of false expenses claims; i.e. allegations of impropriety (financial this time) at another organisation Paul Flowers was involved with in the past. You think that's dreary spam?
Another day, more reams of dreary spam about "man buys drugs/shags man"
I fear you severely underestimate the moral righteousness and power of Cameron and the PB Tories extremely wise Back to Basics campaign.
Having rid the internet of porn NannyCam will rid public and political life of drugtakers, those involved in sexual misbehaviour, but most importantly of all now, alleged expenses cheats.
That's right, according to the political geniuses who cheered on Osbrowne's omnishambles Cameron is now going to go full on John Major Back to Basics on alleged expenses cheats.
One last time for those who still don't get it, that's alleged expenses cheating now in the frame.
The scandal surrounding former Co-op Bank chief Paul Flowers deepened last night after it was revealed he quit a drugs charity over allegations of up to £150,000 in false expenses claims.
The Methodist minister – under police investigation for buying crystal meth and crack cocaine – was suspended by the Lifeline Project after allegedly lodging ‘significant’ false claims between 1992 and 2004.
The Manchester-based charity conducted a full investigation, but former Co-op chairman Flowers, who was its chairman of trustees, resigned before its conclusion.
Last night, charity chief executive Ian Wardle confirmed the Charity Commission was informed of the findings but it is not thought any action was taken...
Good grief. I really hope the allegations were judged to be unfounded, as £150,000 is an awful lot of money for a charity not get the police involved over.
And this Ian Wardle fellow is presumably related to Len Wardle, the now former chair of the Co-operative Group? That's interesting as well...
It will be interesting to find out if this charity every received government money.
Another day, more reams of dreary spam about "man buys drugs/shags man"
I fear you severely underestimate the moral righteousness and power of Cameron and the PB Tories extremely wise Back to Basics campaign.
Having rid the internet of porn NannyCam will rid public and political life of drugtakers, those involved in sexual misbahaviour, but most importantly of all now, alleged expenses cheats.
That's right, according to the political geniuses who cheered on Osbrowne's omnishambles Cameron is now going to go full on John Major Back to Basics on alleged expenses cheats.
One last time for those who still don't get it, that's alleged expenses cheating now in the frame.
*tears of laughter etc.* ;^ )
And self-righteous social conservatism back in vogue for the Tories. How depressing.
Balls will say: "We should draw on the lessons from the past of how the new towns were developed after the second world war by development corporations, which had the powers to acquire, own, manage and dispose of land and property; undertake building operation; provide public utilities; and do anything else necessary to develop the new town.
"These corporations generated revenue by selling land and housing, receiving rental income and receiving commercial income. However, they needed upfront funding to build the infrastructure and housing which could later be sold at a profit."
He argues that Treasury guarantees may be essential for development corporations if they are to have the confidence to start large-scale growth programmes.
"We cannot afford to dither any longer, and I cannot see a stronger case for the full-throated backing of the chancellor than a step change in housing supply," he will say. "Unless we build more affordable homes, house prices relative to earnings will remain high, houses will remain unaffordable, and many people will never realise their dream of owning their own home."
Hallelujah
Tim, do you really believe it? Do you believe Labour have learnt the mistakes they made from 1997 to 2010, and are willing to act?
Labour's track record on housing is exceptionally poor. Do you really think that they've changed, and are willing to put in the money needed to form good, quality communities?
Another day, more reams of dreary spam about "man buys drugs/shags man"
I fear you severely underestimate the moral righteousness and power of Cameron and the PB Tories extremely wise Back to Basics campaign.
Having rid the internet of porn NannyCam will rid public and political life of drugtakers, those involved in sexual misbahaviour, but most importantly of all now, alleged expenses cheats.
That's right, according to the political geniuses who cheered on Osbrowne's omnishambles Cameron is now going to go full on John Major Back to Basics on alleged expenses cheats.
One last time for those who still don't get it, that's alleged expenses cheating now in the frame.
*tears of laughter etc.* ;^ )
And self-righteous social conservatism back in vogue for the Tories. How depressing.
Another day, more reams of dreary spam about "man buys drugs/shags man"
I fear you severely underestimate the moral righteousness and power of Cameron and the PB Tories extremely wise Back to Basics campaign.
Having rid the internet of porn NannyCam will rid public and political life of drugtakers, those involved in sexual misbahaviour, but most importantly of all now, alleged expenses cheats.
That's right, according to the political geniuses who cheered on Osbrowne's omnishambles Cameron is now going to go full on John Major Back to Basics on alleged expenses cheats.
One last time for those who still don't get it, that's alleged expenses cheating now in the frame.
*tears of laughter etc.* ;^ )
And self-righteous social conservatism back in vogue for the Tories. How depressing.
The word you are actually searching for is hilarious. As you and so many others will find out.
Another day, more reams of dreary spam about "man buys drugs/shags man"
I fear you severely underestimate the moral righteousness and power of Cameron and the PB Tories extremely wise Back to Basics campaign.
Having rid the internet of porn NannyCam will rid public and political life of drugtakers, those involved in sexual misbahaviour, but most importantly of all now, alleged expenses cheats.
That's right, according to the political geniuses who cheered on Osbrowne's omnishambles Cameron is now going to go full on John Major Back to Basics on alleged expenses cheats.
One last time for those who still don't get it, that's alleged expenses cheating now in the frame.
*tears of laughter etc.* ;^ )
And self-righteous social conservatism back in vogue for the Tories. How depressing.
The scandal surrounding former Co-op Bank chief Paul Flowers deepened last night after it was revealed he quit a drugs charity over allegations of up to £150,000 in false expenses claims.
The Methodist minister – under police investigation for buying crystal meth and crack cocaine – was suspended by the Lifeline Project after allegedly lodging ‘significant’ false claims between 1992 and 2004.
The Manchester-based charity conducted a full investigation, but former Co-op chairman Flowers, who was its chairman of trustees, resigned before its conclusion.
Last night, charity chief executive Ian Wardle confirmed the Charity Commission was informed of the findings but it is not thought any action was taken...
Good grief. I really hope the allegations were judged to be unfounded, as £150,000 is an awful lot of money for a charity not get the police involved over.
And this Ian Wardle fellow is presumably related to Len Wardle, the now former chair of the Co-operative Group? That's interesting as well...
It will be interesting to find out if this charity every received government money.
Of course if it did receive government funding, and it sounds exactly like the sort of 'charity' which would have done, then a nasty corruption scandal might have put that funding in doubt. Perhaps even had further political ramifications.
Sleazy right wing press now speculating on Flowers current whereabouts:
Paul Flowers may have fled to THAILAND after his sleazy past caught up with him The Methodist minister and shamed ex-chairman of Co-op bank has not been seen since allegations of his drug taking were made public
@another_richard - the Lifeline Project's details and accounts can be found here by searching for charity number 515691. The accounts for 2011-12 (the latest available) show income in the £millions from Kirklees Primary Care Trust, the Prison Service, and Hackney Council, with income of smaller amounts from many other public bodies. All stated in the accounts as 'for delivering a service to assist persons and their families and dependants affected by the misuse of drugs'. So they're a major deliverer of public services and receive fees accordingly.
Another day, more reams of dreary spam about "man buys drugs/shags man"
I fear you severely underestimate the moral righteousness and power of Cameron and the PB Tories extremely wise Back to Basics campaign.
Having rid the internet of porn NannyCam will rid public and political life of drugtakers, those involved in sexual misbahaviour, but most importantly of all now, alleged expenses cheats.
That's right, according to the political geniuses who cheered on Osbrowne's omnishambles Cameron is now going to go full on John Major Back to Basics on alleged expenses cheats.
One last time for those who still don't get it, that's alleged expenses cheating now in the frame.
*tears of laughter etc.* ;^ )
And self-righteous social conservatism back in vogue for the Tories. How depressing.
And lying, scheming, smearing, and promising the Earth just to get their grubby mitts on power is back in vogue for Labour.
Sleazy right wing press now speculating on Flowers current whereabouts:
Paul Flowers may have fled to THAILAND after his sleazy past caught up with him The Methodist minister and shamed ex-chairman of Co-op bank has not been seen since allegations of his drug taking were made public
norman smith@BBCNormanS12m Labour say the Chancellor has "serious questions" to answer over reports he called for more lenient treatment of Co-op bank by EU
Andrew Neil said on the DP that the Co-op Bank board didn't realise they had a black hole at all - it was only Lloyds's people doing their due diligence on the potential branches sale who identified it.
Given the seeming level of incompetence of the Co-Op's board, risk committees, accountants (?), Regulator as well - trying to blame the Chancellor for not spotting this issue is a 'squirrel'. Not even Labour are being accused of covering up the black-hole I should add are they?
The issues relating to how someone like Flowers got to his position however is a totally different matter.
Sleazy right wing press now speculating on Flowers current whereabouts:
Paul Flowers may have fled to THAILAND after his sleazy past caught up with him The Methodist minister and shamed ex-chairman of Co-op bank has not been seen since allegations of his drug taking were made public
It's a fun story. It will be providing tabloid fodder for some time yet, so get used to it. The only thing wrong with it is that it isn't about an actual politician. Could Michael Gove or Andy Burnham please step up to the plate?
Everyone would rather hear about debauched sex and hard drugs than about the intricacies of pension reform.
@another_richard - the Lifeline Project's details and accounts can be found here by searching for charity number 515691. The accounts for 2011-12 (the latest available) show income in the £millions from Kirklees Primary Care Trust, the Prison Service, and Hackney Council, with income of smaller amounts from many other public bodies. All stated in the accounts as 'for delivering a service to assist persons and their families and dependants affected by the misuse of drugs'. So they're a major deliverer of public services and receive fees accordingly.
As I expected its a 'charity' which is effectively part of the public sector.
What we have now is possibly a massive corruption scandal and coverup.
Now we need to know who arranged for Flowers to get his jobs after he left the 'charity'.
Sleazy right wing press now speculating on Flowers current whereabouts:
Paul Flowers may have fled to THAILAND after his sleazy past caught up with him The Methodist minister and shamed ex-chairman of Co-op bank has not been seen since allegations of his drug taking were made public
Balls will say: "We should draw on the lessons from the past of how the new towns were developed after the second world war by development corporations, which had the powers to acquire, own, manage and dispose of land and property; undertake building operation; provide public utilities; and do anything else necessary to develop the new town.
"These corporations generated revenue by selling land and housing, receiving rental income and receiving commercial income. However, they needed upfront funding to build the infrastructure and housing which could later be sold at a profit."
He argues that Treasury guarantees may be essential for development corporations if they are to have the confidence to start large-scale growth programmes.
"We cannot afford to dither any longer, and I cannot see a stronger case for the full-throated backing of the chancellor than a step change in housing supply," he will say. "Unless we build more affordable homes, house prices relative to earnings will remain high, houses will remain unaffordable, and many people will never realise their dream of owning their own home."
Hallelujah
Tim, do you really believe it? Do you believe Labour have learnt the mistakes they made from 1997 to 2010, and are willing to act?
Labour's track record on housing is exceptionally poor. Do you really think that they've changed, and are willing to put in the money needed to form good, quality communities?
Европейский комиссар @MoodySlayerUK Ed Miliband seems to have gone off calling for inquiries every five minutes. I wonder why? #Falkirk #CoOp #Flowers #Grangemouth #Unite
Sleazy right wing press now speculating on Flowers current whereabouts:
Paul Flowers may have fled to THAILAND after his sleazy past caught up with him The Methodist minister and shamed ex-chairman of Co-op bank has not been seen since allegations of his drug taking were made public
Amid rumours that the hedge fend/s may be getting a bit apprehensive of filling the £1.5bn hole found in the Co-op Bank's accounts, they could of course foreclose on what is left of Labour's borrowings (at below market rates) of £18m (including £1.2m in March after EdM made his confession to the Reverend Chairman or should it have been the other way round?).
How would Labour repay that large sum? Would they go the Unity Trust (the Trade Unions Bank) - that secretive 'bank' owned by the Co-op Bank and other shareholders that include Unite, Unison and NUT? Would the Brothers and Sisters bail out EdM?
Apparently the Unity Trust has 84 staff, no branches and its board is stacked with union barons who have no banking experience.
Balls will say: "We should draw on the lessons from the past of how the new towns were developed after the second world war by development corporations, which had the powers to acquire, own, manage and dispose of land and property; undertake building operation; provide public utilities; and do anything else necessary to develop the new town.
"These corporations generated revenue by selling land and housing, receiving rental income and receiving commercial income. However, they needed upfront funding to build the infrastructure and housing which could later be sold at a profit."
He argues that Treasury guarantees may be essential for development corporations if they are to have the confidence to start large-scale growth programmes.
"We cannot afford to dither any longer, and I cannot see a stronger case for the full-throated backing of the chancellor than a step change in housing supply," he will say. "Unless we build more affordable homes, house prices relative to earnings will remain high, houses will remain unaffordable, and many people will never realise their dream of owning their own home."
Hallelujah
Tim, do you really believe it? Do you believe Labour have learnt the mistakes they made from 1997 to 2010, and are willing to act?
Labour's track record on housing is exceptionally poor. Do you really think that they've changed, and are willing to put in the money needed to form good, quality communities?
Labour's 'New Towns' aren't meant to be built they're meant to be talking points at Primrose Hill dinner parties and gullible fools on the internet.
And to provide amusement for us when tim falls for them every time.
Tim, do you really believe it? Do you believe Labour have learnt the mistakes they made from 1997 to 2010, and are willing to act?
Labour's track record on housing is exceptionally poor. Do you really think that they've changed, and are willing to put in the money needed to form good, quality communities?
These things take time. My own village of Cambourne was started in 1997, and is still not complete. The nearby new village of Northstowe was first mooted in 2006; work has still not started on it.
I know I keep on wittering on about this, but it is important: the developers who built Cambourne got many things right (and some things wrong); things that will not necessarily happen on other new developments, because they cost money and/or space.
We need to build communities, not houses.
Let's not repeat the mistakes of the 1930s, 1960s and 1970s.
Mark Sparrow @MarkGSparrow Some 23.8% of the world's female millionaires are from Portugal. Philippines, Peru, Hong Kong and Turkey have next most female millionaires
Sleazy right wing press now speculating on Flowers current whereabouts:
Paul Flowers may have fled to THAILAND after his sleazy past caught up with him The Methodist minister and shamed ex-chairman of Co-op bank has not been seen since allegations of his drug taking were made public
Obviously if Ed Milliband appointed or put undue influence for him to lead the bank , it would show bad judgement,a bit like a high profile appointment the current PM made in opposition, then confirmed when arriving at Downing Street.
Sleazy right wing press now speculating on Flowers current whereabouts:
Paul Flowers may have fled to THAILAND after his sleazy past caught up with him The Methodist minister and shamed ex-chairman of Co-op bank has not been seen since allegations of his drug taking were made public
Obviously if Ed Milliband appointed or put undue influence for him to lead the bank , it would show bad judgement,a bit like a high profile appointment the current PM made in opposition, then confirmed when arriving at Downing Street.
Who ? The plebgate cops ?? They haven't been charged yet.
Why aren't Flowers and Falkirk impacting voting intention despite best efforts from many sides? Mainly, I think, because nobody in ordinary life has ever heard of any of the people involved. Flowers does sound dodgy and it's a pity that he was able to get as far as he did, but sometimes people with a confident front do make a good impression (David Herdson gave what sounded like a very fair assessment of him), and it's impractical to launch a full-scale investigation of the past life of everyone you encounter. The Mail is also suffering from being a busted flush as overworked Witchfinder in Chief on Labour stories - it's getting like the Express and Diana, more a source of amusement than interest.
Fenster's thoughtful post yesterday and Hopi Sen's blog are right. People will vote on the basis of much more deep-rooted preferences and antipathies, and pursuing each others' fringe issues is fun but ultimately a distraction from actually persuading anyone. People have lost track of what the Government thinks it's about, and unless a confident narrative is re-established, their prospects remain dim.
Labour are lucky that the media, as usual, concentrate on the sex and drugs aspect pf the Flowers' scandal. I bet the LDs are jealous. Come on, Cleggie, get your lads up to the mark.
The dangerous bit would be if the inquiry shows that Labour helped to appoint a nincompoop to a top job just because he was one of theirs. It may happen with all parties but Labour seem to corner the market in this sort of thing.
Never mind the brain cells, look at the voting record.
Comments
'Disbelief' - that someone with so little banking experience and knowledge was appointed chair of the bank.
Yes, maybe the current events were triggered (at least in part) by Flowers' private activities. But the issues of real significance revolve around his appointment as Bank chair and his links with Labour, and those are what the Tories seem to be focusing on. We'll see how things pan out; but in the meantime shall we just agree to differ?
Mark Textor @markatextor 1m
Yes. Australia win toss = bat. #Ashes
Therefore as far as I can see this is not a matter for government involvement. One of the primary reasons I vote Tory is because they tend to be the party of less state involvement rather tan more. I'm not going to abandon that theme just because it may suit party politics in the short term.
Expect a clatter of wickets by tea
Again, what has that to do with anything unless Flowers behaviour is central which it self-evidently is. Either this is a story about Flowers and his links to labour or it's just a story about Flowers private life and the bank. There is no process or questions and links to labour/little Ed without what Flowers has done in his private life. That is the story. Everything is concomitant on Flowers having done something wrong in his private life. Which he has. The point you are also missing is that while there are clearly questions to be asked about Flowers some people are more suited to ask those questions than others.
Just realise Labour are up to their necks in this one, deal with it and move on
"Labour's 'cover-up' over Co-op bank chief
Independent inquiry ordered into how Rev Paul Flowers was appointed chairman of a major British bank, amid allegations Labour Party covered up concerns about his conduct"
As they say: Follow the money...
How the whatsit did they manage to manage so badly?
Even Clegg would be a better choice, which is saying something.
What did Oscar Wilde (ahem) say about losing two?
I think Simon Danczuk MP should have a good look at his organisation.
April 2010 - Flowers appointed chairman of Co-op Bank and vice-chairman of Co-op Group
September 2011 - Flowers resigns as Labour councillor in Bradford after pornography is found on his council laptop
31 March 2012 - Co-op Group donates £50,000 through Labour Party to support shadow chancellor Ed Balls' office
6 March 2013 - Ed Miliband meets Flowers to discuss banking reform
1 April 2013 - Labour takes out £1.2m loan from Co-op Bank, to be repaid by 2016
The Sunday Telegraph reports the Prudential Regulation Authority is carrying out the review to assess whether the PRA and the FSA could have done more in their roles as supervisors of the Co-op Bank, and whether the capital shortfall should have been revealed sooner.
The review will look at correspondence including letters, emails and telephone calls, and look at how regulators assessed the Co-op’s books. The review is expected to date back to before the Co-op merged with Britannia Building Society in January 2009.
Regulators will also examine what changed between March this year when the Co-op Bank published its 2012 accounts citing a tier one capital ratio of 9.2 per cent, and June when it was revealed the bank has a £1.5bn shortfall.
LOL
I think one of the first "political"things, apart from elections, I recall is my parents and grandparents talking about the collapse of my grandparents local co-op, due to sexual shenanigans, this time by the CEO. That was around 60 years ago. The personal ramifications for several people not directly associated were huge.
Australia
£39.52
England
-10.50
Draw
-26.70
book for the night
I knew that the Labour party had outstanding loan with the Co-op Bank from a while back, but I didn't know about this new loan from earlier this year?
I'm not watching …… can't get sky here ……. so can't comment on shot, but do agree about Warner. It's time he was out!
The shadow chancellor has out down himself - Ed Balls, take a bow.
If it is the second one, Hodges will look pretty silly. Not that he doesn't anyway. If it is the first one he will look a bit of a loon. If it is the third one, most people including the person who funded the original poll will be very surprised.
Even if it is the second one, the Tories will say they did nothing of the sort and most people will think it was the voices in his head.
So, barring the third option....Hodges to loonsville.
Also, do you not think it strange that he releases that article when the Labour lead falls to 4%. Must have been waiting ages for that to come along.
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/11/20/public-tend-prefer-status-quo-taxation/
For next budget, Labour and LD VI wish to increase taxes to reduce spending cuts. Cons and UKIP want to reduce taxes funded by spending cuts.
Labour - 40%
Tory - 32%
Ukip - 12%
L Dem - 9%
or in Dan Hodges head via a nameless source:
Labour 30%
Tory - 42%
Lib Dem - 18%
Ukip - 4%
The scandal surrounding former Co-op Bank chief Paul Flowers deepened last night after it was revealed he quit a drugs charity over allegations of up to £150,000 in false expenses claims.
The Methodist minister – under police investigation for buying crystal meth and crack cocaine – was suspended by the Lifeline Project after allegedly lodging ‘significant’ false claims between 1992 and 2004.
The Manchester-based charity conducted a full investigation, but former Co-op chairman Flowers, who was its chairman of trustees, resigned before its conclusion.
Last night, charity chief executive Ian Wardle confirmed the Charity Commission was informed of the findings but it is not thought any action was taken.
Mr Wardle described the money as a ‘significant sum’ which required a ‘lengthy and thorough investigation’.
The revelations will only reinforce concerns that City regulators, the Co-op board and Labour failed to adequately investigate the past of the drug-taking minister who was once invited to Ed Miliband’s office for private talks.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510897/Co-op-chief-Paul-Flowers-quit-charity-150-000-false-expenses-claims.html#ixzz2lG3zRkPY
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
NannyCam will make John Major proud.
And this Ian Wardle fellow is presumably related to Len Wardle, the now former chair of the Co-operative Group? That's interesting as well...
Hope DD went well - sorry to miss it.
The Revd Paul Flowers ticked all the right 'progressive' boxes — that's why he could get away with anything
Sustainability. Tick! Inclusivity. Tick! Fairtrade. Tick! All that mattered to Labour was the Crystal Methodist's show of liberal piety
http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9082571/an-icon-of-our-time/
What did he bring to the party that couldnt be found elsewhere?
We had a brief interlude last night talking about politics. Fenster's post last night well worth reading.
Your creativity and ignorance of the subject you frequently exhibit as an expert is nearly as good as that of the Rev Flowers
The fact that Balls new towns will be proposed for areas that will not come at political cost to Labour is an added bonus for you.
So much for the "cross party consensus" needed to address the issue,
Having rid the internet of porn NannyCam will rid public and political life of drugtakers, those involved in sexual misbehaviour, but most importantly of all now, alleged expenses cheats.
That's right, according to the political geniuses who cheered on Osbrowne's omnishambles Cameron is now going to go full on John Major Back to Basics on alleged expenses cheats.
One last time for those who still don't get it, that's alleged expenses cheating now in the frame.
*tears of laughter etc.* ;^ )
Give praise!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/
Labour's track record on housing is exceptionally poor. Do you really think that they've changed, and are willing to put in the money needed to form good, quality communities?
Paul Flowers may have fled to THAILAND after his sleazy past caught up with him
The Methodist minister and shamed ex-chairman of Co-op bank has not been seen since allegations of his drug taking were made public
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/paul-flowers-fled-thailand-after-2814328
How utterly depressing.
Labour say the Chancellor has "serious questions" to answer over reports he called for more lenient treatment of Co-op bank by EU
Andrew Neil said on the DP that the Co-op Bank board didn't realise they had a black hole at all - it was only Lloyds's people doing their due diligence on the potential branches sale who identified it.
Given the seeming level of incompetence of the Co-Op's board, risk committees, accountants (?), Regulator as well - trying to blame the Chancellor for not spotting this issue is a 'squirrel'.
Not even Labour are being accused of covering up the black-hole I should add are they?
The issues relating to how someone like Flowers got to his position however is a totally different matter.
Why do You Gov only get one poll right with 19 outliers
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10462871/Its-no-coincidence-the-MPs-found-guilty-of-fiddling-are-all-Labour.html
BTW how did Dirty Dick's go last night?
Everyone would rather hear about debauched sex and hard drugs than about the intricacies of pension reform.
What we have now is possibly a massive corruption scandal and coverup.
Now we need to know who arranged for Flowers to get his jobs after he left the 'charity'.
Oh for the sensible days when our friends on the left didn't mention Plebgate once. No siree! Not never, no-how!
As antifrank points out its a gold plated, copper bottomed scandal - sex, drugs, bankers, politics, friends in high places, religion......
Of course if it involved a Tory........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6650639.stm
After all, those Eco towns are all built and functioning as beacons of green industry now, aren't they?
Colour me a little sceptical at Labours ability to organise a bunfight in a bakery.
Ed Miliband seems to have gone off calling for inquiries every five minutes. I wonder why?
#Falkirk #CoOp #Flowers #Grangemouth #Unite
How would Labour repay that large sum? Would they go the Unity Trust (the Trade Unions Bank) - that secretive 'bank' owned by the Co-op Bank and other shareholders that include Unite, Unison and NUT? Would the Brothers and Sisters bail out EdM?
Apparently the Unity Trust has 84 staff, no branches and its board is stacked with union barons who have no banking experience.
Bit of a pattern emerging here?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510913
And to provide amusement for us when tim falls for them every time.
The PM and the chancellor should be careful about such accusations .
I know I keep on wittering on about this, but it is important: the developers who built Cambourne got many things right (and some things wrong); things that will not necessarily happen on other new developments, because they cost money and/or space.
We need to build communities, not houses.
Let's not repeat the mistakes of the 1930s, 1960s and 1970s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambourne
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northstowe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-towns
Mark Sparrow @MarkGSparrow
Some 23.8% of the world's female millionaires are from Portugal. Philippines, Peru, Hong Kong and Turkey have next most female millionaires
Glad Cameron has finally wised up to "Green crap".
Fenster's thoughtful post yesterday and Hopi Sen's blog are right. People will vote on the basis of much more deep-rooted preferences and antipathies, and pursuing each others' fringe issues is fun but ultimately a distraction from actually persuading anyone. People have lost track of what the Government thinks it's about, and unless a confident narrative is re-established, their prospects remain dim.
Labour are lucky that the media, as usual, concentrate on the sex and drugs aspect pf the Flowers' scandal. I bet the LDs are jealous. Come on, Cleggie, get your lads up to the mark.
The dangerous bit would be if the inquiry shows that Labour helped to appoint a nincompoop to a top job just because he was one of theirs. It may happen with all parties but Labour seem to corner the market in this sort of thing.
Never mind the brain cells, look at the voting record.