Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
This is fairly weak sauce from Mr Meeks, who is usually excellent but who has a bit of a blind spot for Brexit.
Any version of leaving the EU is a valid interpretation of the referendum result. Making the legal form argument is drawing a distinction without a difference. If the politicians cannot agree on a form of leaving, this is regrettable, but no blame could realistically be placed on anyone who has voted for the WA.
To hold VL responsible for the actions (sequencing, Chequers, WA, cont p94) of a government it did not form, and from which a number of its members resigned, seems congenitally churlish.
Remember, too, that the remain campaign's projections (a year-long recession, a million extra unemployed, breakdown of civilization, war in Europe, cont p94) have also been poor facsimiles of the reality.
And it's impossible, and I think unfair, to hold the a manifesto pledge to the same account as a float prospectus, contractual obligation, or solicitors' undertaking. Politicans, certainly in this country, with its avowedly party political framework, are responsible for 'the artof the possible'. A certain amount of fudge is often necessary and desirable in order to maintain broad consensus and legitimacy.
Finally, and I am not trying to make Premain and Cameremain 'happen',* the result of revoking A50, whether before or after a second referendum, is not the same as a 2016 remain outcome. Precisely nobody voted for that.
Any form of leave, in short, is legitimate. And no form of remain is.
*Obviously, I am.
I ask again the question I asked in the article: do you think the public would have voted for no deal Brexit? Because if the answer to that question is "probably not", then it has no mandate.
That, sadly, was in the hands of the voters. They didn't foresee the consequences of voting "Leave" and laid themselves open to any and every kind of interpretation from Norway to No Deal.
Similarly with Leavers, some even here on PB, who find themselves amazed that we are currently where we are. That it should have been a gigantic clusterfuck ought to have been the central premise of anyone engaging in scenario analysis of what their leave vote might mean. Sadly, all too little of this was done and people picked the bit of leaving they liked the look of, not realising the pandora's box (sans l'espoir) they had opened.
They are idiots but such is the way with elections. It would be the same thing if, come the next GE, people voted for Jeremy Corbyn and then wondered why Tescos (or The Central No. 2 Industrial Retail Outlet as it might become), had run out of avocados.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
How many white Tories MPs have you threatened with deportation?
Curious, isn't it, that the number of BAME Tory MPs is very small, and yet you managed to alight on a BAME MP as a suitable candidate for "self-deportation"?
The backstop is clearly not the solution, otherwise there would be no issue.
Well, it is the solution to getting from where we are now until whatever 'technical solution' can be made to work. It's an insurance policy that maybe it won't work.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
You must have missed the bit where he said she should be deported
Yep - and we deport criminals to Poland, France, Germany Bulgaria and Romania. We deport people based on place of origin or (for some unlucky UK born residents) the place their parents came from.
The UK has already lost out when it comes to Academia. As soon as the Brexit vote happened, the large EU-funded projects started to dry up, The UK just couldn't bid for EU money, and the large, trans-national research projects that they fund, because 1) it was unclear if they'd be entitled tot he money and 2) the difficulty of recruiting.
1) This is just incorrect. The UK is still in, & is leading, large EU-funded projects -- just as Israel, Norway, & Switzerland are.
2) There is some truth in this. I am aware of some academics who are reluctant to apply for positions in the UK on the grounds of uncertainty. However, almost all research jobs are over-subscribed by a large ratio, so I am not sure there had been any substantial effect of UK research.
Almost all research jobs are over-subscribed .... by inappropriate or substandard candidates. Finding the good candidates is much harder.
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
The UK has already lost out when it comes to Academia. As soon as the Brexit vote happened, the large EU-funded projects started to dry up, The UK just couldn't bid for EU money, and the large, trans-national research projects that they fund, because 1) it was unclear if they'd be entitled tot he money and 2) the difficulty of recruiting.
1) This is just incorrect. The UK is still in, & is leading, large EU-funded projects -- just as Israel, Norway, & Switzerland are.
2) There is some truth in this. I am aware of some academics who are reluctant to apply for positions in the UK on the grounds of uncertainty. However, almost all research jobs are over-subscribed by a large ratio, so I am not sure there had been any substantial effect of UK research.
Almost all research jobs are over-subscribed .... by inappropriate or substandard candidates. Finding the good candidates is much harder.
Almost all research jobs are over-subscribed by truly excellent candidates, in my experience.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
I’m not digging . And won’t take lectures from anyone who voted Leave after a horrendous anti immigrant ref campaign .
People from across the world still get here so something must be working even if other bits can be improved. If we can stop relying upon the crutch of free movement then we will be better motivated to fix any flaws with our system that impede the creme de la creme from coming.
Its rather bigoted of @Noo to consider [primarily white] Europeans to be the "creme de la creme" we need to be attracting, rather than the creme de la creme of the entire world whether that be Asians, North or South Americans, Africans or indeed Europeans.
It doesn’t work because talented people that your xenophobic party disingenuously claims it wants to attract are actively deterred. It is haphazard, understaffed and underfunded. My old firm dealt with a theatre company from Canada that was due to perform Shakespeare but were turned down because the playwright was not in the group. The Guardian this morning highlighted an American academic that can’t bring her kids. It’s only a couple of years since your party was demonising “citizens of nowhere”. It has had years to fix those issues and has done nothing - in fact it has made it worse. And you now have the temerity to suggest all will be well now we will be forcing a whole new continent into the same broken system, while falsely claiming you are “introducing” something new? Saying it is “Australian” cannot polish the turd. Australia has a notoriously unfair system that imprisons people of colour offshore, and that is the dogwhistle reason it is described thus when, in truth, it will be an expansion of a British system
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
I’m not digging . And won’t take lectures from anyone who voted Leave after a horrendous anti immigrant ref campaign .
I’m sitting in central lobby waiting for a meeting.
Very very quiet here.
That must be an interesting job, actually meeting and working with MPs. When i worked at CCHQ or CCO as it was called then I remember assisting Eric Pickles amungst others. I don't think he liked my small talk in a phone conversation!
People from across the world still get here so something must be working even if other bits can be improved. If we can stop relying upon the crutch of free movement then we will be better motivated to fix any flaws with our system that impede the creme de la creme from coming.
Its rather bigoted of @Noo to consider [primarily white] Europeans to be the "creme de la creme" we need to be attracting, rather than the creme de la creme of the entire world whether that be Asians, North or South Americans, Africans or indeed Europeans.
It doesn’t work because talented people that your xenophobic party disingenuously claims it wants to attract are actively deterred. It is haphazard, understaffed and underfunded. My old firm dealt with a theatre company from Canada that was due to perform Shakespeare but were turned down because the playwright was not in the group. The Guardian this morning highlighted an American academic that can’t bring her kids. It’s only a couple of years since your party was demonising “citizens of nowhere”. It has had years to fix those issues and has done nothing - in fact it has made it worse. And you now have the temerity to suggest all will be well now we will be forcing a whole new continent into the same broken system, while falsely claiming you are “introducing” something new? Saying it is “Australian” cannot polish the turd. Australia has a notoriously unfair system that imprisons people of colour offshore, and that is the dogwhistle reason it is described thus when, in truth, it will be an expansion of a British system
Not sure a Canadian theatre company is something I'll lose sleep over. The immigration policy is incredibly popular in Australia with people of all backgrounds.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
I’m not digging . And won’t take lectures from anyone who voted Leave after a horrendous anti immigrant ref campaign .
Racists gonna drag their heels I guess
I'd love to have seen their reaction had Farage told a British Asian woman to go and deport herself.
That, sadly, was in the hands of the voters. They didn't foresee the consequences of voting "Leave" and laid themselves open to any and every kind of interpretation from Norway to No Deal.
Similarly with Leavers, some even here on PB, who find themselves amazed that we are currently where we are. That it should have been a gigantic clusterfuck ought to have been the central premise of anyone engaging in scenario analysis of what their leave vote might mean. Sadly, all too little of this was done and people picked the bit of leaving they liked the look of, not realising the pandora's box (sans l'espoir) they had opened.
They are idiots but such is the way with elections. It would be the same thing if, come the next GE, people voted for Jeremy Corbyn and then wondered why Tescos (or The Central No. 2 Industrial Retail Outlet as it might become), had run out of avocados.
I think it was one of those decisions where it was fair, on the part of the public, to say we vote to Leave and then leave it up to the politicians to decide what form it took. Then, if the voters didn't like what the politicians had agreed, at the next General Election they could have their made their opinions clear. At the end of the day, if you say the electorate didn't agree No Deal, then the same argument could be made for all of the options - they didn't agree EFTA / EEA, "soft" Brexit etc etc.
Byzantine but it works. I have gone blue in the face on here explaining that we already have an “Australian style” points based system, it was introduced by Gordon Brown, and it doesn’t work.
I think that much of the public support for an 'Australian style points system' - and the phrase really does go down a storm in focus groups apparently - is probably because many people are under the impression that it will let in exclusively or mainly Australians and others of that ilk. By which I mean migrants from the Anglosphere who are likely to be white and have English as a first language.
Not sure whether posted yet - big change today on Betfair re date of next GE.
Nov 5.6 Dec 2.24 2020 or later 2.52
Nov was under 3 yesterday - expectations increasing of delay!
A November 28 election would need to be called before 25 October, and it seems very unlikely the opposition will agree to this as they want to ensure an extension is agreed and passed into law before any dissolution. And the election of the new speaker is scheduled for November 4. So even if a motion for an election is carried on November 5 the earliest (Thursday) date on which it could be held is December 12. Though there must be room for doubt that an election so close to Christmas is a realistic option - February or March seems more likely to me.
The election of a new Speaker will not get in the way of any Dissolution - it would simply be a matter of delaying such an election until Parliament reassembles. Moreover , an extension would not obviously require any new legislation - but an act by the executive to comply with existing law.
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
Surely his negative qualities will be painstaking worked over in a GE campaign. As i said before i think his leadership ratings will slump in a GE campaign as will Tory support.....
Byzantine but it works. I have gone blue in the face on here explaining that we already have an “Australian style” points based system, it was introduced by Gordon Brown, and it doesn’t work.
I think that much of the public support for an 'Australian style points system' - and the phrase really does go down a storm in focus groups apparently - is probably because many people are under the impression that it will let in exclusively or mainly Australians and others of that ilk. By which I mean migrants from the Anglosphere who are likely to be white and have English as a first language.
Maybe the simple folk think "Australian style" points system means you only get points if you are like an Australian?
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
Boris argued for an amnesty for illegal immigrants. But don't let that mind your head on the way out.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
I’m not digging . And won’t take lectures from anyone who voted Leave after a horrendous anti immigrant ref campaign .
Racists gonna drag their heels I guess
I'd love to have seen their reaction had Farage told a British Asian woman to go and deport herself.
Completely agree, double standards time and time again. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was clumsy language but then they just double down. There;s certainly an attitude of sneering from some that if you're British and not white you can only subscribe to a certain set of views and attitudes, People like Nico would happily oppress the masses of British 'Asians' who have reasonable Conservative values.
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
Surely his negative qualities will be painstaking worked over in a GE campaign. As i said before i think his leadership ratings will slump in a GE campaign as will Tory support.....
As the 2008 and 2012 London Mayoral and 2016 EU referendum campaigns showed Boris is a winner and a brilliant campaigner so I doubt it
That, sadly, was in the hands of the voters. They didn't foresee the consequences of voting "Leave" and laid themselves open to any and every kind of interpretation from Norway to No Deal.
Similarly with Leavers, some even here on PB, who find themselves amazed that we are currently where we are. That it should have been a gigantic clusterfuck ought to have been the central premise of anyone engaging in scenario analysis of what their leave vote might mean. Sadly, all too little of this was done and people picked the bit of leaving they liked the look of, not realising the pandora's box (sans l'espoir) they had opened.
They are idiots but such is the way with elections. It would be the same thing if, come the next GE, people voted for Jeremy Corbyn and then wondered why Tescos (or The Central No. 2 Industrial Retail Outlet as it might become), had run out of avocados.
I think it was one of those decisions where it was fair, on the part of the public, to say we vote to Leave and then leave it up to the politicians to decide what form it took. Then, if the voters didn't like what the politicians had agreed, at the next General Election they could have their made their opinions clear. At the end of the day, if you say the electorate didn't agree No Deal, then the same argument could be made for all of the options - they didn't agree EFTA / EEA, "soft" Brexit etc etc.
What you are suggesting is what happened. Whilst it may have some logic, in practice it has failed as the country is divided and the politicians and parliament reflects that division. The GE to clarify didnt help, not sure the next one will either.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
I’m not digging . And won’t take lectures from anyone who voted Leave after a horrendous anti immigrant ref campaign .
Racists gonna drag their heels I guess
I'd love to have seen their reaction had Farage told a British Asian woman to go and deport herself.
Twitter again with rumours the EU will consider a time limited backstop
Johnson rejected any extension to the transition period, so I am not sure how a time-limited backstop (which is a form of transition) fits within that plan.
I would not wholly be surprised if the EU were prepared to countenance a five, eight year transition period - over which the fabled "alternative arrangements" might actually become available. But Johnson appeared to rule that out.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
I’m not digging . And won’t take lectures from anyone who voted Leave after a horrendous anti immigrant ref campaign .
Racists gonna drag their heels I guess
I'd love to have seen their reaction had Farage told a British Asian woman to go and deport herself.
Completely agree, double standards time and time again. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was clumsy language but then they just double down. There;s certainly an attitude of sneering from some that if you're British and not white you can only subscribe to a certain set of views and attitudes, People like Nico would happily oppress the masses of British 'Asians' who have reasonable Conservative values.
Always good fun though when someone’s half way through regaling you with how much they hate the tories, and then you tell them you’re a card carrying member. You get the same awkward glance at your skin as you do in the ‘where are you from really’ conversation...
Tbh Boris can bring back any old casserole of nonsense and when parliament vote it down just ramp up the people vs parliament schtick. It's all pretty much theatre now.
Boris argued for an amnesty for illegal immigrants. But don't let that mind your head on the way out.
Which do I believe? That Boris or the one who happily allowed Taki to opine on the moral and intellectual deficiencies of Black families in the Spectator? The one who is actively courting Brexit Party voters? The Trump supporter? The one who cheerfully described a vulnerable section of the community as looking like “letterboxes”? The Boris who described gay men as "tank-topped bumboys"?
Boris is liberal when it suits him. Liberalism suited him to be elected Mayor. When it looked like Hilary would win it suited him to say “The only reason I wouldn't go to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump”. How long did that last post November 2016? The suggested amnesty you reference suited him when it looked like a few liberal votes might be needed to win the 2016 referendum.
Twitter again with rumours the EU will consider a time limited backstop
I've long-wondered why they didn't just offer a 10 year time limit. In the real world it's the same as a backstop that ultimately could never be permanent if the UK really wanted out.
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
I’m not digging . And won’t take lectures from anyone who voted Leave after a horrendous anti immigrant ref campaign .
Racists gonna drag their heels I guess
I'd love to have seen their reaction had Farage told a British Asian woman to go and deport herself.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
I’m not digging . And won’t take lectures from anyone who voted Leave after a horrendous anti immigrant ref campaign .
Racists gonna drag their heels I guess
I'd love to have seen their reaction had Farage told a British Asian woman to go and deport herself.
Completely agree, double standards time and time again. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was clumsy language but then they just double down. There;s certainly an attitude of sneering from some that if you're British and not white you can only subscribe to a certain set of views and attitudes, People like Nico would happily oppress the masses of British 'Asians' who have reasonable Conservative values.
Or indeed even unreasonable Bluekip values. As Bercow might say, she has a right to be heard and must be heard.
Boris argued for an amnesty for illegal immigrants. But don't let that mind your head on the way out.
Which do I believe? That Boris or the one who happily allowed Taki to opine on the moral and intellectual deficiencies of Black families in the Spectator? The one who is actively courting Brexit Party voters? The Trump supporter? The one who cheerfully described a vulnerable section of the community as looking like “letterboxes”? The Boris who described gay men as "tank-topped bumboys"?
Boris is liberal when it suits him. Liberalism suited him to be elected Mayor. When it looked like Hilary would win it suited him to say “The only reason I wouldn't go to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump”. How long did that last post November 2016? The suggested amnesty you reference suited him when it looked like a few liberal votes might be needed to win the 2016 referendum.
People from across the world still get here so something must be working even if other bits can be improved. If we can stop relying upon the crutch of free movement then we will be better motivated to fix any flaws with our system that impede the creme de la creme from coming.
Its rather bigoted of @Noo to consider [primarily white] Europeans to be the "creme de la creme" we need to be attracting, rather than the creme de la creme of the entire world whether that be Asians, North or South Americans, Africans or indeed Europeans.
So the ideal is that everybody wants to come here - because we are the bees knees - but only a select few can make it.
A top top place reserved for top top people.
I get you - I think - but there is something a little 'off' about this vision. It smacks of something that is not healthy. I wish I could put my finger on it. Perhaps I will be able to after I've had some nuts.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
I’m not digging . And won’t take lectures from anyone who voted Leave after a horrendous anti immigrant ref campaign .
Racists gonna drag their heels I guess
I'd love to have seen their reaction had Farage told a British Asian woman to go and deport herself.
Completely agree, double standards time and time again. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was clumsy language but then they just double down. There;s certainly an attitude of sneering from some that if you're British and not white you can only subscribe to a certain set of views and attitudes, People like Nico would happily oppress the masses of British 'Asians' who have reasonable Conservative values.
Or indeed even unreasonable Bluekip values. As Bercow might say, she has a right to be heard and must be heard.
She has a right to be absurd, too. A right she exercises every day. There is nothing reasonable about Patel's values. She's an idiot in a cabinet full of idiots.
That, sadly, was in the hands of the voters. They didn't foresee the consequences of voting "Leave" and laid themselves open to any and every kind of interpretation from Norway to No Deal.
Similarly with Leavers, some even here on PB, who find themselves amazed that we are currently where we are. That it should have been a gigantic clusterfuck ought to have been the central premise of anyone engaging in scenario analysis of what their leave vote might mean. Sadly, all too little of this was done and people picked the bit of leaving they liked the look of, not realising the pandora's box (sans l'espoir) they had opened.
They are idiots but such is the way with elections. It would be the same thing if, come the next GE, people voted for Jeremy Corbyn and then wondered why Tescos (or The Central No. 2 Industrial Retail Outlet as it might become), had run out of avocados.
I think it was one of those decisions where it was fair, on the part of the public, to say we vote to Leave and then leave it up to the politicians to decide what form it took. Then, if the voters didn't like what the politicians had agreed, at the next General Election they could have their made their opinions clear. At the end of the day, if you say the electorate didn't agree No Deal, then the same argument could be made for all of the options - they didn't agree EFTA / EEA, "soft" Brexit etc etc.
What you are suggesting is what happened. Whilst it may have some logic, in practice it has failed as the country is divided and the politicians and parliament reflects that division. The GE to clarify didnt help, not sure the next one will either.
Oh it definitely failed the country but as asked, any type of leaving is legitimate and has a mandate.
That pesky all but blank ballot paper ensured that.
The UK has already lost out when it comes to Academia. As soon as the Brexit vote happened, the large EU-funded projects started to dry up, The UK just couldn't bid for EU money, and the large, trans-national research projects that they fund, because 1) it was unclear if they'd be entitled tot he money and 2) the difficulty of recruiting.
1) This is just incorrect. The UK is still in, & is leading, large EU-funded projects -- just as Israel, Norway, & Switzerland are.
2) There is some truth in this. I am aware of some academics who are reluctant to apply for positions in the UK on the grounds of uncertainty. However, almost all research jobs are over-subscribed by a large ratio, so I am not sure there had been any substantial effect of UK research.
You're incorrect with 1). Mrs Tabman is a senior academic at a well-known and prestigious UK university, working on large EU funded projects, and the lifecycle for these is typically 3-5 years. Consequently as soon as Brexit was announced, UK-led consortia just aren't winning these sorts of research grants any more. They've been frozen out.
Ongoing projects will finish up; there aren't new ones replacing them.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
I’m not digging . And won’t take lectures from anyone who voted Leave after a horrendous anti immigrant ref campaign .
Racists gonna drag their heels I guess
I'd love to have seen their reaction had Farage told a British Asian woman to go and deport herself.
Completely agree, double standards time and time again. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was clumsy language but then they just double down. There;s certainly an attitude of sneering from some that if you're British and not white you can only subscribe to a certain set of views and attitudes, People like Nico would happily oppress the masses of British 'Asians' who have reasonable Conservative values.
Or indeed even unreasonable Bluekip values. As Bercow might say, she has a right to be heard and must be heard.
She has a right to be absurd, too. A right she exercises every day. There is nothing reasonable about Patel's values. She's an idiot in a cabinet full of idiots.
Yes but taking her on by suggesting deportation is classic dog whistle politics at best. Take her on her policies and intellect, it is not difficult.
Boris argued for an amnesty for illegal immigrants. But don't let that mind your head on the way out.
Which do I believe? That Boris or the one who happily allowed Taki to opine on the moral and intellectual deficiencies of Black families in the Spectator? The one who is actively courting Brexit Party voters? The Trump supporter? The one who cheerfully described a vulnerable section of the community as looking like “letterboxes”? The Boris who described gay men as "tank-topped bumboys"?
Boris is liberal when it suits him. Liberalism suited him to be elected Mayor. When it looked like Hilary would win it suited him to say “The only reason I wouldn't go to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump”. How long did that last post November 2016? The suggested amnesty you reference suited him when it looked like a few liberal votes might be needed to win the 2016 referendum.
30 years of opinion pieces paint a pretty convincing picture. He's what I would describe as a constitutional liberal.
Boris is FAR from perfect, and arguably unsuited to prime ministerial heights, but is he that much worse than some of the others? There are fans of Gordon Brown and Ed Balls on here, but was the bullying, intimidating way they treated aides and workers acceptable? Or a bar on them attaining high office? (By contrast Boris is said to be personable and unfailingly polite).
I think the abuse he gets is a sure sign he is feared. And he's probably feared because he has a pretty good track record of winning things.
There are people who viscerally hate Tony Blair. But again, he was absolutely brilliant at winning.
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
And a known racist too.
I like how he racially discriminated Patel and Javid into central roles.
Boris argued for an amnesty for illegal immigrants. But don't let that mind your head on the way out.
Which do I believe? That Boris or the one who happily allowed Taki to opine on the moral and intellectual deficiencies of Black families in the Spectator? The one who is actively courting Brexit Party voters? The Trump supporter? The one who cheerfully described a vulnerable section of the community as looking like “letterboxes”? The Boris who described gay men as "tank-topped bumboys"?
Boris is liberal when it suits him. Liberalism suited him to be elected Mayor. When it looked like Hilary would win it suited him to say “The only reason I wouldn't go to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump”. How long did that last post November 2016? The suggested amnesty you reference suited him when it looked like a few liberal votes might be needed to win the 2016 referendum.
30 years of opinion pieces paint a pretty convincing picture. He's what I would describe as a constitutional liberal.
Boris is FAR from perfect, and arguably unsuited to prime ministerial heights, but is he that much worse than some of the others? There are fans of Gordon Brown and Ed Balls on here, but was the bullying, intimidating way they treated aides and workers acceptable? Or a bar on them attaining high office? (By contrast Boris is said to be personable and unfailingly polite).
I think the abuse he gets is a sure sign he is feared. And he's probably feared because he has a pretty good track record of winning things.
There are people who viscerally hate Tony Blair. But again, he was absolutely brilliant at winning.
The issue we were discussing, immigration, pertains to social liberalism, and the evidence that he is a social liberal does not stand up to any scrutiny
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
Surely his negative qualities will be painstaking worked over in a GE campaign. As i said before i think his leadership ratings will slump in a GE campaign as will Tory support.....
As the 2008 and 2012 London Mayoral and 2016 EU referendum campaigns showed Boris is a winner and a brilliant campaigner so I doubt it
Yawn. Back to being the blinkered fan-boy again then?
That, sadly, was in the hands of the voters. They didn't foresee the consequences of voting "Leave" and laid themselves open to any and every kind of interpretation from Norway to No Deal.
Similarly with Leavers, some even here on PB, who find themselves amazed that we are currently where we are. That it should have been a gigantic clusterfuck ought to have been the central premise of anyone engaging in scenario analysis of what their leave vote might mean. Sadly, all too little of this was done and people picked the bit of leaving they liked the look of, not realising the pandora's box (sans l'espoir) they had opened.
They are idiots but such is the way with elections. It would be the same thing if, come the next GE, people voted for Jeremy Corbyn and then wondered why Tescos (or The Central No. 2 Industrial Retail Outlet as it might become), had run out of avocados.
I think it was one of those decisions where it was fair, on the part of the public, to say we vote to Leave and then leave it up to the politicians to decide what form it took. Then, if the voters didn't like what the politicians had agreed, at the next General Election they could have their made their opinions clear. At the end of the day, if you say the electorate didn't agree No Deal, then the same argument could be made for all of the options - they didn't agree EFTA / EEA, "soft" Brexit etc etc.
This should have been done as follows:
- leave in a party manifesto - get elected, come up with a plan to leave - put plan to confirmatory referendum
Totally arse about face, and responsible for the mess we're in
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
And a known racist too.
I like how he racially discriminated Patel and Javid into central roles.
And got his ex girlfriend to be shadow Home Secretary- patriarchy in action.
Maybe the simple folk think "Australian style" points system means you only get points if you are like an Australian?
No doubt there is some of that. But perhaps more common is that, without overtly thinking about the details, they subliminally picture 'Australians' when they hear the phrase. Certainly something odd going on. Its popularity is through the roof.
People from across the world still get here so something must be working even if other bits can be improved. If we can stop relying upon the crutch of free movement then we will be better motivated to fix any flaws with our system that impede the creme de la creme from coming.
Its rather bigoted of @Noo to consider [primarily white] Europeans to be the "creme de la creme" we need to be attracting, rather than the creme de la creme of the entire world whether that be Asians, North or South Americans, Africans or indeed Europeans.
You really are a thick twat aren't you?
At no point did I say that Europeans are the creme de la creme. I said reducing the talent pool of easy hires from 28 to 1 country will be detrimental to attracting the creme de la creme here. As far as I can tell, the proposals won't change the barriers to those coming from outside the EU, but will significantly increase the barriers for those from within the rest of the EU. That is an increase in the difficulty of hiring.
Meanwhile, other EU countries are not raising their barrier to hiring, which means they will become more competitive in terms of hiring and investment.
It's sad that you had to make a baseless accusation based on what you thought I was saying rather than what I actually said. But I forgive you, because it looks a lot like you were being a cretin rather than being malicious. But you should still apologise.
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
And a known racist too.
I like how he racially discriminated Patel and Javid into central roles.
One can often come across people who discriminate against people ‘except’ the people with whom they work.
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
And a known racist too.
I like how he racially discriminated Patel and Javid into central roles.
Racism is not a zero sum game. Harry Truman desegregated the US military but was openly racist with senate colleagues and hostile to the civil rights movement towards the end of his life.
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
And a known racist too.
I like how he racially discriminated Patel and Javid into central roles.
I know a misogynist who is nice to his mum. He's still a misogynist though.
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
And a known racist too.
I like how he racially discriminated Patel and Javid into central roles.
They aren’t proper non-whites though as they are right wing...
For arguments sake say it is true . Given that Johnson has dug himself a deep hole about completely removing the backstop could he spin this .
And what would the ERG do after refusing to back the previous deal with one of their main contentions no time limit , they keep moving the goalposts .
At this stage one is of course hesitant to believe anything but *if* true then that would be a huge turnaround. I can only believe it will be five at least better ten years otherwise what's the point.
But looking forward to seeing the detail.
Last night was busy and completely missed the solution and then unraveling of the solution to the Irish problem.
Katya Adler describes our EU partners as being agog and open mouthed after Johnson said "If the EU demand customs checks on the island of Ireland...."
Is there any reason why they don't tell Johnson and his tawdry gang to just fu*k off? Is it because they need us so badly?
I've used the phrase "hemispatial neglect" to describe the inability of many in the Conservative Party to wilfully ignore the fact that the Republic is a different country. It's depressing...
If its true I honestly hope Boris grabs the offer and pushes it before parliament with some add ons e.g workers rights to get some labour MPs onboard.. That way he can claim to have taken us out of the EU and we can get back to normality..
I say this as a hard brexiteer at heart who would be OK with no deal.. I just think we need to compromise (something which is a dirty word these days) and this is the best way to do it
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
And a known racist too.
I like how he racially discriminated Patel and Javid into central roles.
One can often come across people who discriminate against people ‘except’ the people with whom they work.
Quite. I've heard people say to Eastern European colleagues things like "they come here and beg and steal because they're lazy... oh but not you of course, you're alright". It's the same thing.
Boris argued for an amnesty for illegal immigrants. But don't let that mind your head on the way out.
Which do I believe? That Boris or the one who happily allowed Taki to opine on the moral and intellectual deficiencies of Black families in the Spectator? The one who is actively courting Brexit Party voters? The Trump supporter? The one who cheerfully described a vulnerable section of the community as looking like “letterboxes”? The Boris who described gay men as "tank-topped bumboys"?
Boris is liberal when it suits him. Liberalism suited him to be elected Mayor. When it looked like Hilary would win it suited him to say “The only reason I wouldn't go to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump”. How long did that last post November 2016? The suggested amnesty you reference suited him when it looked like a few liberal votes might be needed to win the 2016 referendum.
30 years of opinion pieces paint a pretty convincing picture. He's what I would describe as a constitutional liberal.
Boris is FAR from perfect, and arguably unsuited to prime ministerial heights, but is he that much worse than some of the others? There are fans of Gordon Brown and Ed Balls on here, but was the bullying, intimidating way they treated aides and workers acceptable? Or a bar on them attaining high office? (By contrast Boris is said to be personable and unfailingly polite).
I think the abuse he gets is a sure sign he is feared. And he's probably feared because he has a pretty good track record of winning things.
There are people who viscerally hate Tony Blair. But again, he was absolutely brilliant at winning.
A constitutional liberal? You are having a laugh.
BTW, he gets abuse because he is incompetent and totally unsuited for the office he has conned his way into. He is a buffoon, a liar and a misogynist of the worst kind. In a sense I fear him, though not for the reason you suggest. I fear him for all the damage his brand of un-Conservative nasty populism, combined with his incompetence will continue to do to the country I love. He will be able to do this, not because he is some sort of great campaigner, but because the LoTO is even more ridiculous as a potential PM than he is.
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
And a known racist too.
I like how he racially discriminated Patel and Javid into central roles.
On topic, regarding Alistair`s piece, he says: "So the idea that the referendum substantially decided that the country was accepting the prospect of a no-deal Brexit can be dismissed."
I (who voted remain) believe that the public voted to leave with or without a deal. But I accept that this argument is lost. Those that matter have convinced themselves that the 2016 referendum gives no mandate for a "no deal" exit. I would argue that by the same at logic the referendum similarly gave no mandate to leave with a deal either. But, as I say, the argument is lost.
I talked to a leading brexiteer MP in May and I advanced the suggestion that the only way that Brexiters would get they Brexit they seek is a fresh referendum with "leave with or without a deal" and "remain" as the binary choice. His/her response was to say "if we could get this through the commons unamended we would go for that".
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
I don't see where he mentioned anything about colour or race , he merely said she was vile and wished she could deport herself which is nothing whatsoever to do with racism. Puzzled why you both would see that in his post.
This is fairly weak sauce from Mr Meeks, who is usually excellent but who has a bit of a blind spot for Brexit.
Any version of leaving the EU is a valid interpretation of the referendum result. Making the legal form argument is drawing a distinction without a difference. If the politicians cannot agree on a form of leaving, this is regrettable, but no blame could realistically be placed on anyone who has voted for the WA. Snip.
Any form of leave, in short, is legitimate. And no form of remain is.
*Obviously, I am.
I ask again the question I asked in the article: do you think the public would have voted for no deal Brexit? Because if the answer to that question is "probably not", then it has no mandate.
I'm grateful for the thread header, and I do think you're one of the best PBers, but this question is a complete non-starter. To reduce one of the referendum outcomes to a single item (or subset, since there are doubtless many sorts of exit that don't include an A50(2) agreement) without performing the same reduction on the other side, is of academic interest only. It doesn't in itself damage the validity of the referendum mandate.
All you are saying is that if a different question had been asked, a different answer would have been given, so ignore the actual question and the actual answer.
Flip it on its head. If remain had won, and I said that, because the Commission had appointed UvdL against the spitzenkandidaten process, and she'd committed to using the tax passerelle clauses in Lisbon, and there were new tariffs on Chinese solar panels and electric bikes, nobody had voted for that and the mandate had fallen away? Now imagine I was suggesting also that we leave the EU until we had another referendum. It's not credible.
The EU referendum saw BOTH sides talking in apocalyptic terms. Lots of hyperbole, lots of lies, lots of misleading statistics and lots of fear-mongering. For Boris's bus I raise you Osborne's emergency budget. Was one required? Was it bollocks. Was Boris's bus a paragon of hard facts? Was it bollocks.
But all political campaigns are riven with the same high-falutin pledges and nonsense. The difference with this one is that it cut jaggedly across party lines and created severe discomfort for politicians in the main parties. It also gave an opportunity for lots of poor working class people in safe seats to cast a vote that counted for something, for once. And the way they voted pissed off a lot of gilded, comfortably-placed people.
I thought Cameron and Osborne ran good government. I thought the referendum was a bad idea. It's a shame that the EU Ref has destroyed Cameron's career and legacy.
But you can't put the lid back on Pandora's box and surreptitiously remain in the EU hoping no bugger notices, counting on a bit of finger-pointing at some bullshitting politicians to rectify the whole affair.
The problem has to be dealt with by leaving, and hopefully leaving in as orderly a manner as possible. Politicians on all sides need to be grown up about that.
Banging on about who lied and who misled for the next two decades is fine (and can remain the preserve of clever, wealthy people) but I'd suggest most of the country will reasonably-happily shrug their shoulders and get on with it. And I'd also aver that most ordinary people will consider Brexit to be a damn side less painful than the prospect of a Corbyn government.
That's why I hope Boris gets a deal and we can move on.
Next question - how does Boris get a deal through Parliament. Everyone will literally be following Steve Baker into whatever lobby he enters.
I don't think he will. But I hope he will. I also hope the ERG piss off to La La Land and that Boris returns to his old guise of generously-spirited libertarian.
Boris is an amoral, authoritarian, sociopath. Anyone who considers him libertarian, or even liberal, needs their head examining.
And a known racist too.
I like how he racially discriminated Patel and Javid into central roles.
Racism is not a zero sum game. Harry Truman desegregated the US military but was openly racist with senate colleagues and hostile to the civil rights movement towards the end of his life.
Australia with its Australian style points system has double the migration rate per capita that we do. It doesn't run short of attracting the creme de la creme and neither will we.
The best and brightest will manage to get through our migration system. As they already can Australia's.
It make me sad that you obviously haven't read what I wrote yet still felt compelled to disagree with it. The more of a system there is to "get through", the more people don't bother. That's the part of the way such a system works to reduce immigration. It's not just about quotas, it's about the extra administrative burden, the financial and opportunity risks involved in applying. Barriers to entry affect competition which affects quality. Ask anyone who has set up a business. The more paperwork, the less incentive there is. And what Patel wants to do is vastly increase the burden for a large proportion of those who would and do apply here.
Meanwhile, the UK has 6 universities in the world's top 30, Australia has none.
It makes me sad that you are incapable of reading what I wrote. Yes there may be a barrier but people go through the barriers. We want the world's best and brightest to get through the barriers and if there are any obstructions to the world's best and brightest getting through then we need to address them. What Patel wants lowers barriers to the world's best and brightest and puts the world's best and brightest ahead of [primarily white Europeans] Europe's anyone, anywhere.
I'm glad you chose to introduce world's top universities into the conversation because . . .
Meanwhile the UK has 6 universities in the world's top 30, the EU27 have none.
Casual racism from Nico. She's British, sorry she's a bit brown and doesn't share your views.
What has being vile got to do with colour or race?
The introduction of the idea of deportation is racist. Nico would not have introduced it if P. Patel had been white.
Why not . The Home Secretary can make the final decision on deportation . I have no problem with where Patel is from or her colour . If she was white and was as vile I’d still be happy for her to deport herself .
Deport herself to where, London? Seriously, stop digging.
I’m not digging . And won’t take lectures from anyone who voted Leave after a horrendous anti immigrant ref campaign .
"Senior Tory MP asked to leave party conference after incident Police called after Geoffrey Clifton-Brown allegedly behaved in ‘totally unacceptable’ fashion"
Surely any poster on here knows the truism that 95% of the public are not aware of, let alone fully up to speed with, the details of Westminster politics.
is it therefore fanciful surely to try and argue that everyone who voted leave had absorbed and held in their head such detailed argument as is in the post header. Surely the vast majority of Leave voters had no interest in the details, they just wanted to Leave. they did not vote "Leave but only with a deal".
Almost everyone i speak to is fed up with this now. We need to leave, then we can go about negotiating trade deals, customs details and other things on which we can co-operate again. No it's not ideal, but ignoring the result is way worse.
+1
But in 10 years time clever, wealthy, sneery people will still be arguing over the small print of the Leave campaign... saying their European identity was stolen by a bunch of knucklescraping racists who can't think for themselves.
There were (and are) clever wealthy sneery people on the Leave side also.
On topic, regarding Alistair`s piece, he says: "So the idea that the referendum substantially decided that the country was accepting the prospect of a no-deal Brexit can be dismissed."
I (who voted remain) believe that the public voted to leave with or without a deal. But I accept that this argument is lost. Those that matter have convinced themselves that the 2016 referendum gives no mandate for a "no deal" exit. I would argue that by the same at logic the referendum similarly gave no mandate to leave with a deal either. But, as I say, the argument is lost.
I talked to a leading brexiteer MP in May and I advanced the suggestion that the only way that Brexiters would get they Brexit they seek is a fresh referendum with "leave with or without a deal" and "remain" as the binary choice. His/her response was to say "if we could get this through the commons unamended we would go for that".
Maybe its time has come?
And a pig just flew past my window. They would be terrified of such a referendum. Mind you, if the fabled "leading Brexiteer" was Mark Francois, he might be thick enough to believe he could prevail on such a choice.
If its true I honestly hope Boris grabs the offer and pushes it before parliament with some add ons e.g workers rights to get some labour MPs onboard.. That way he can claim to have taken us out of the EU and we can get back to normality..
I say this as a hard brexiteer at heart who would be OK with no deal.. I just think we need to compromise (something which is a dirty word these days) and this is the best way to do it
Compromise is inevitable. If this is true, I agree, he has to go for it. FWIW the lack of an escape clause was the dealbreaker for me.
That is the most shockingly racist thing I've read here, other than quotes from Trump. I suppose you wonder why she doesn't "go home to where she comes from"? Its London by the way you disgusting racist.
Australia with its Australian style points system has double the migration rate per capita that we do. It doesn't run short of attracting the creme de la creme and neither will we.
The best and brightest will manage to get through our migration system. As they already can Australia's.
It make me sad that you obviously haven't read what I wrote yet still felt compelled to disagree with it. The more of a system there is to "get through", the more people don't bother. That's the part of the way such a system works to reduce immigration. It's not just about quotas, it's about the extra administrative burden, the financial and opportunity risks involved in applying. Barriers to entry affect competition which affects quality. Ask anyone who has set up a business. The more paperwork, the less incentive there is. And what Patel wants to do is vastly increase the burden for a large proportion of those who would and do apply here.
Meanwhile, the UK has 6 universities in the world's top 30, Australia has none.
It makes me sad that you are incapable of reading what I wrote. Yes there may be a barrier but people go through the barriers. We want the world's best and brightest to get through the barriers and if there are any obstructions to the world's best and brightest getting through then we need to address them. What Patel wants lowers barriers to the world's best and brightest and puts the world's best and brightest ahead of [primarily white Europeans] Europe's anyone, anywhere.
I'm glad you chose to introduce world's top universities into the conversation because . . .
Meanwhile the UK has 6 universities in the world's top 30, the EU27 have none.
You're right, the EU27 has none. The UK punches well above its weight. Testament, don't you think, that we're doing something right. Or were. Because Patel is looking to change that.
Comments
Similarly with Leavers, some even here on PB, who find themselves amazed that we are currently where we are. That it should have been a gigantic clusterfuck ought to have been the central premise of anyone engaging in scenario analysis of what their leave vote might mean. Sadly, all too little of this was done and people picked the bit of leaving they liked the look of, not realising the pandora's box (sans l'espoir) they had opened.
They are idiots but such is the way with elections. It would be the same thing if, come the next GE, people voted for Jeremy Corbyn and then wondered why Tescos (or The Central No. 2 Industrial Retail Outlet as it might become), had run out of avocados.
Curious, isn't it, that the number of BAME Tory MPs is very small, and yet you managed to alight on a BAME MP as a suitable candidate for "self-deportation"?
Very very quiet here.
I would not wholly be surprised if the EU were prepared to countenance a five, eight year transition period - over which the fabled "alternative arrangements" might actually become available. But Johnson appeared to rule that out.
Boris is liberal when it suits him. Liberalism suited him to be elected Mayor. When it looked like Hilary would win it suited him to say “The only reason I wouldn't go to some parts of New York is the real risk of meeting Donald Trump”. How long did that last post November 2016? The suggested amnesty you reference suited him when it looked like a few liberal votes might be needed to win the 2016 referendum.
Apparently they’re minded to offer a longer extension now .
Is there any reason why they don't tell Johnson and his tawdry gang to just fu*k off? Is it because they need us so badly?
A top top place reserved for top top people.
I get you - I think - but there is something a little 'off' about this vision. It smacks of something that is not healthy. I wish I could put my finger on it. Perhaps I will be able to after I've had some nuts.
That pesky all but blank ballot paper ensured that.
Ongoing projects will finish up; there aren't new ones replacing them.
Boris is FAR from perfect, and arguably unsuited to prime ministerial heights, but is he that much worse than some of the others? There are fans of Gordon Brown and Ed Balls on here, but was the bullying, intimidating way they treated aides and workers acceptable? Or a bar on them attaining high office? (By contrast Boris is said to be personable and unfailingly polite).
I think the abuse he gets is a sure sign he is feared. And he's probably feared because he has a pretty good track record of winning things.
There are people who viscerally hate Tony Blair. But again, he was absolutely brilliant at winning.
- leave in a party manifesto
- get elected, come up with a plan to leave
- put plan to confirmatory referendum
Totally arse about face, and responsible for the mess we're in
At no point did I say that Europeans are the creme de la creme. I said reducing the talent pool of easy hires from 28 to 1 country will be detrimental to attracting the creme de la creme here.
As far as I can tell, the proposals won't change the barriers to those coming from outside the EU, but will significantly increase the barriers for those from within the rest of the EU. That is an increase in the difficulty of hiring.
Meanwhile, other EU countries are not raising their barrier to hiring, which means they will become more competitive in terms of hiring and investment.
It's sad that you had to make a baseless accusation based on what you thought I was saying rather than what I actually said. But I forgive you, because it looks a lot like you were being a cretin rather than being malicious. But you should still apologise.
For arguments sake say it is true . Given that Johnson has dug himself a deep hole about completely removing the backstop could he spin this .
And what would the ERG do after refusing to back the previous deal with one of their main contentions no time limit , they keep moving the goalposts .
He lacks integrity, compassion and judgment.
But looking forward to seeing the detail.
Last night was busy and completely missed the solution and then unraveling of the solution to the Irish problem.
I say this as a hard brexiteer at heart who would be OK with no deal.. I just think we need to compromise (something which is a dirty word these days) and this is the best way to do it
It’s the UK that’s decided to leave !
BTW, he gets abuse because he is incompetent and totally unsuited for the office he has conned his way into. He is a buffoon, a liar and a misogynist of the worst kind. In a sense I fear him, though not for the reason you suggest. I fear him for all the damage his brand of un-Conservative nasty populism, combined with his incompetence will continue to do to the country I love. He will be able to do this, not because he is some sort of great campaigner, but because the LoTO is even more ridiculous as a potential PM than he is.
I (who voted remain) believe that the public voted to leave with or without a deal. But I accept that this argument is lost. Those that matter have convinced themselves that the 2016 referendum gives no mandate for a "no deal" exit. I would argue that by the same at logic the referendum similarly gave no mandate to leave with a deal either. But, as I say, the argument is lost.
I talked to a leading brexiteer MP in May and I advanced the suggestion that the only way that Brexiters would get they Brexit they seek is a fresh referendum with "leave with or without a deal" and "remain" as the binary choice. His/her response was to say "if we could get this through the commons unamended we would go for that".
Maybe its time has come?
All you are saying is that if a different question had been asked, a different answer would have been given, so ignore the actual question and the actual answer.
Flip it on its head. If remain had won, and I said that, because the Commission had appointed UvdL against the spitzenkandidaten process, and she'd committed to using the tax passerelle clauses in Lisbon, and there were new tariffs on Chinese solar panels and electric bikes, nobody had voted for that and the mandate had fallen away? Now imagine I was suggesting also that we leave the EU until we had another referendum. It's not credible.
I'm glad you chose to introduce world's top universities into the conversation because . . .
Meanwhile the UK has 6 universities in the world's top 30, the EU27 have none.
That is the most shockingly racist thing I've read here, other than quotes from Trump. I suppose you wonder why she doesn't "go home to where she comes from"? Its London by the way you disgusting racist.
Still waiting for your apology, by the way.