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  • Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    I can't find anything about MacShane's party affiliation.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24989402#TWEET958482

    Sky seem to be unable to help either.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1170223/former-mp-admits-13k-bogus-expense-claims

    'Rotherham' - Hardly going to be Tory central now is it...
    Justine Greening and William Hague were both born in Rotherham.

    Also Grab a Granny night in Rotherham is awesome, so I am told, ahem.

    UK Grandmother at 26 from Rotherham

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/432463.stm
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Ed spraying it again on Sky news..
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 17s
    Crikey. phlegm/spittle alert for EdM on SkyNews now. Literally foaming at the mouth?

    1.17 third version menitons party affiliation and that MacShane was a former Europe minister - could be worse they might have mentioned his journalistic past at the BBC.
  • Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 2m
    Crikey. phlegm/spittle alert for EdM on SkyNews now. Literally foaming at the mouth?

    Frothing loonie alert...
  • Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    I can't find anything about MacShane's party affiliation.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24989402#TWEET958482

    Sky seem to be unable to help either.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1170223/former-mp-admits-13k-bogus-expense-claims

    'Rotherham' - Hardly going to be Tory central now is it...
    Justine Greening and William Hague were both born in Rotherham.

    Also Grab a Granny night in Rotherham is awesome, so I am told, ahem.

    UK Grandmother at 26 from Rotherham

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/432463.stm
    Given the date in 1999, theres a chance she could be a Great Granny at 39 by now...
  • Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    I can't find anything about MacShane's party affiliation.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24989402#TWEET958482

    Sky seem to be unable to help either.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1170223/former-mp-admits-13k-bogus-expense-claims

    'Rotherham' - Hardly going to be Tory central now is it...
    Justine Greening and William Hague were both born in Rotherham.

    Also Grab a Granny night in Rotherham is awesome, so I am told, ahem.

    UK Grandmother at 26 from Rotherham

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/432463.stm
    Given the date in 1999, theres a chance she could be a Great Granny at 39 by now...
    Terrifying.

    Rotherham, like Liverpool, have the only JD Sports in the country that have an evening wear section.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited November 2013
    Just fancy that a very odd judicial coincidence

    "Callum May @callummay
    Follow
    Mr Justice Sweeney has already sentenced Vicky Pryce this year. Her partner Denis MacShane will be sentenced by the same judge."

    POVPWAS To have a former husband jailed, then to have current boyfriend facing jail.
  • TGOHF said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter
    Chris Ship ‏@chrisshipitv 5m
    Clegg: Labour woul ruin this nascent recovery, Tories can't be relied upon to deliver it fairly. You'll hear that few times before 2015

    Oh yes. Mind you, I think it's quite a good line that nicely sets up the Lib Dem position (as they want us to think of them) as fiscally sensible but compassionate with it. Clever positioning and a snappy soundbite, IMO.

    Having said that, if the speculation / rumours come true of Farron taking over from Clegg and going into coalition with Labour led by Ed & Ed, then my Lib Dem membership card might not be long for this world...
    If that is the soundbite - it makes a Lib/Lab coalition impossible ?
    Their 2010 deficit reduction plans were much closer to Lab's than Osborne's and that didn't stop them jumping into bed with the Tories. It's part of the reason for mistrust and downright emnity from the Labour side because it's a little galling being attacked as profligates by people who campaigned on, and won a lot of left-wing votes partly by siding with Labour on that election's biggest policy issue.

    In fact if the Libs are thinking strategically rather than on personal preference then a coalition with Labour may be preferable to the Tories, as they can show that they are trying and able to work with both parties rather than just doing the Tories bidding this time.

    Additionally, a 2015 coalition would not have a sense of crisis as political cover for the LDs and the Tories are more likely to push their more right-wing policies to the fore, leaving the Lib Dems with worse dilemmas than they've faced in this parliament. The yellows can stomach free schools, but I doubt many could take for-profit ones, nor the extra tranche of benefit cuts the Tories want.

    Of course they'd never be able to admit this before the election as they'd look like idiots, but one can easily see a Lib Dem leader talking piously about Labour having 'learned its lesson' and discovering that Ed Miliband wasn't such a wreckless oaf after all.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    In fairness to WATO they described McShane as a "former Labour minister"......

    It says "former Labour MP" on the BBC website
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited November 2013
    o/t - Now that Berlusconi doesnt have the numbers to bring down the Italian government in the short-term the 11/10 from Paddy Power on the next Italian election happening in 2015 or later looks more attractive.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5c7999fe-4fa8-11e3-b06e-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2l0JI0Emk

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/italian-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1302946
  • Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    I can't find anything about MacShane's party affiliation.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24989402#TWEET958482

    Sky seem to be unable to help either.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1170223/former-mp-admits-13k-bogus-expense-claims

    'Rotherham' - Hardly going to be Tory central now is it...
    Justine Greening and William Hague were both born in Rotherham.

    Also Grab a Granny night in Rotherham is awesome, so I am told, ahem.

    UK Grandmother at 26 from Rotherham

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/432463.stm
    Given the date in 1999, theres a chance she could be a Great Granny at 39 by now...
    Terrifying.

    Rotherham, like Liverpool, have the only JD Sports in the country that have an evening wear section.
    I thought in most of these places, the nighttime section of stores also doubled up as the daytime wear, as none of them got dressed.
  • Eric Illsley got 12 months for 14ks worth of dodgy expenses.

    So MacShane is likely to get that much, so out in 3 months on tag.

    I think that rather depends on the basis of plea, and the pre-sentence report. Illsley, after all, admitted to a Probation Officer that his false accounting had been motivated by greed, and Saunders J sentenced him on that basis.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,500
    TGOHF said:

    " 2 big Labour Beasts came over to YES last week ,"

    Missed this one - will anyone have heard of them ?

    They will have in Scotland , Alex Mosson and Sir Charles Gray
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-labour-grandee-backs-yes-vote-1-3191733
  • Their 2010 deficit reduction plans were much closer to Lab's than Osborne's and that didn't stop them jumping into bed with the Tories. It's part of the reason for mistrust and downright emnity from the Labour side because it's a little galling being attacked as profligates by people who campaigned on, and won a lot of left-wing votes partly by siding with Labour on that election's biggest policy issue.

    In fact if the Libs are thinking strategically rather than on personal preference then a coalition with Labour may be preferable to the Tories, as they can show that they are trying and able to work with both parties rather than just doing the Tories bidding this time.

    Additionally, a 2015 coalition would not have a sense of crisis as political cover for the LDs and the Tories are more likely to push their more right-wing policies to the fore, leaving the Lib Dems with worse dilemmas than they've faced in this parliament. The yellows can stomach free schools, but I doubt many could take for-profit ones, nor the extra tranche of benefit cuts the Tories want.

    Of course they'd never be able to admit this before the election as they'd look like idiots, but one can easily see a Lib Dem leader talking piously about Labour having 'learned its lesson' and discovering that Ed Miliband wasn't such a wreckless oaf after all.

    This is all probably moot in that, assuming a shrinking LibDem contingent, the probability of them having kingmaker power is quite low, so in practice they'll end up working with whoever the voters lumber them with. But if they do get to choose, I'd agree with all that, with just one, very important counter-argument: The LibDem parliamentary party will consist almost exclusively of people whose jobs are best protected by a deal with Con, because all the people who needed a deal with Lab will already have lost their seats.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    And the 4/7 on Berlusconi not being a PDL candidate at the next GE is a certainty because if he stands at all it will be as a Forza Italia candidate.

    http://www.paddypower.com/bet/politics/other-politics/italian-politics?ev_oc_grp_ids=1308194

    Silly phrasing from PP though so I'm not certain they'll pay out on it.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @Sean_F "MacShane admits guilt on MP expensesBreaking news NEW
    Ex-Labour minister and MP Denis MacShane pleads guilty to false accounting over parliamentary expenses, at Old Bailey in London." on BBC Politics page now. T

    They are on version number 4 of the story.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited November 2013

    Eric Illsley got 12 months for 14ks worth of dodgy expenses.

    So MacShane is likely to get that much, so out in 3 months on tag.

    I think that rather depends on the basis of plea, and the pre-sentence report. Illsley, after all, admitted to a Probation Officer that his false accounting had been motivated by greed, and Saunders J sentenced him on that basis.
    If I remember correctly McShane's dodgy expense claims arose from a feeling that the taxpayer should be paying for his European activities on the basis that they were of such value to the country. However deluded that was I could understand if he was dealt with more lightly than others.
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited November 2013
    dr_spyn said:

    Just fancy that a very odd judicial coincidence.

    Its not that much of a coincidence. Sweeney J is the second most senior of the four Presiding Judges on the South Eastern Circuit, and so pretty much chooses which cases he tries. He also has "the terrorism ticket", which means that he is automatically assigned all indictable allegations of terrorism in England & Wales, which are tried by him unless he otherwise orders. He will preside over R v Adebolajo & Adebowale later this month.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,500

    Well that's nice.....Ed's having a 'good hair day'.....

    My tonsorial advice to Miliband would be to "keep the length" or at least to enjoy his moment before the inevitable chop and the parliamentary hair focus shifts back to everyone wondering how long Cameron can play the combover game with dignity.

    http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/fashion-blog/2013/nov/18/ed-miliband-mini-mullet-haircut-itv-daybreak

    I detect more the influence of the tousled Hon Hunt myself....

    Ed is compared to David Tennant?

    Blimey!
    Only if you are blind
  • F1: Lotus *still* haven't sorted the Quantum money.

    Good news is that Sauber have said Hulkenberg has a seat if he wants one next year, and it's possible he'll get the Lotus seat. I suspect they won't sort the money out and he'll stay at Sauber or go elsewhere.

    Remarkable how bad Lotus seem to be at sorting this deal.
  • Rabid lefties...

    Paul Waugh‏@paulwaugh17m
    Crikey. phlegm/spittle alert for EdM on SkyNews now. Literally foaming at the mouth?
  • Neil/LIMA

    Yup that is it

    During a hearing at the Old Bailey in London, Mr MacShane admitted false accounting by putting in fake receipts for £12,900 of "research and translation" services.

    The former Europe minister used the money to fund trips to the continent......

    ......One letter, dated October 2009, described how he drew funds from the EPI so he could serve on a book judging panel in Paris.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24989402
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
  • Cameron on blocking peer2peer c-porn:

    We'll deploy "the brains that are the inheritors to the people that decrypted the Enigma Code in WW2."
  • Neil said:

    If I remember correctly McShane's dodgy expense claims arose from a feeling that the taxpayer should be paying for his European activities on the basis that they were of such value to the country. However deluded that was I could understand if he was dealt with more lightly than others.

    Normally lack of contrition, self-serving excuses, and refusal to face up to guilt increase the sentence, rather than reduce it.
  • Neil said:

    If I remember correctly McShane's dodgy expense claims arose from a feeling that the taxpayer should be paying for his European activities on the basis that they were of such value to the country. However deluded that was I could understand if he was dealt with more lightly than others.

    That was my thinking. He has maintained in public that his false accounting was not motivated by a desire for personal gain, and unless the contrary is proven or admitted, he will fall to be sentenced on that basis. Of course, the Crown may not accept the basis of his plea, and it will be open to Sweeney J to order a Newton hearing to determine the matter.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,500

    WATO leading on this:

    Independent Scotland would face choice of tax rises or deep cuts, says IFS
    Scottish government contests Institute for Fiscal Studies report that predicts 'significant additional fiscal tightening'


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/18/independent-scotland-tax-spending-ifs-report

    Swinney & Darling on.....

    Ha Ha Ha , they still using OBR numbers , only 25% out on oil price in a couple of years, think how bad their forecast will be in 50 years.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,538

    Eric Illsley got 12 months for 14ks worth of dodgy expenses.

    So MacShane is likely to get that much, so out in 3 months on tag.

    I think that rather depends on the basis of plea, and the pre-sentence report. Illsley, after all, admitted to a Probation Officer that his false accounting had been motivated by greed, and Saunders J sentenced him on that basis.
    So, if McShane makes his plea on the basis that it was "noble cause corruption" is that likely to be an aggravating or mitigating factor when it comes to sentencing?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,963
    edited November 2013

    Neil said:

    If I remember correctly McShane's dodgy expense claims arose from a feeling that the taxpayer should be paying for his European activities on the basis that they were of such value to the country. However deluded that was I could understand if he was dealt with more lightly than others.

    Normally lack of contrition, self-serving excuses, and refusal to face up to guilt increase the sentence, rather than reduce it.
    The Probation service who write the pre-sentence report (which the judge is under obligation to follow in this situation) generally soft touches.

    When you have your meeting with the probation service, get your hanky out Denis, cry like a disgraced Televangelist, talk about the shame, and the guilt you feel on the embarrassment you feel that you've brought to your loved ones, and they'll recommend a non-custodial sentence.

    Incidentally, I can see an opportunity for a non custodial sentence, given low chance of re-offending, and his age, as Judges don't like sending pensioners to prison for non sexual, not violent crimes.
  • Mr. Eagles, the sentence from Cameron is too long.

    I also think it was a bit weird to only give out medals for Bletchley Park work so long after the war had ended.
  • 5-1 with Ladbrokes on Ed gone before GE 2015..... is that my best bet for him?

    This isn't even from Dan Hodges...

    Ed Miliband is in trouble.

    He can’t deal with disciplinary issues, or lance the Falkirk boil, because he dare not upset his major donor, Unite. He leaves Ed Balls free to run riot through his messages and policies apparently because the Shadow Chancellor is too big, and too ruthless, a beast for him to safely take on.

    That is bad enough in itself. The impact on Labour’s election strategy of a leader who cannot lead could well be disastrous.
  • A coalition with the LibDems gives Lab cover if their base are narked off that they're not spending enough, and the LibDems get to take credit for preventing Labour from creating the fiscal catastrophe that they weren't going to create in the first place.

    Hmm, maybe... I'm still having malevolent thoughts towards my LD membership card! And - realpolitik and all that - I suppose @marktheowl is right to suggest the idea of 'a Lib Dem leader talking piously about Labour having 'learned its lesson' and discovering that Ed Miliband wasn't such a reckless oaf after all'.

    You folks who know much more about politics across the world - in countries where the government is usually a coalition, is it common for a smaller party to shift its allegiance every few years or do the political contours change more slowly, on the whole?
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited November 2013
    I suppose it coming from ConUKIPhome may colour that opinion a teeny tad... but no smoke without fire as the smart posters here like to say.

    http://www.conservativehome.com/leftwatch/2013/11/ed-miliband-cant-face-down-unite-or-ed-balls-hes-a-leader-who-cant-lead.html
  • Mr. Eagles, the sentence from Cameron is too long.

    Not as long as the sentence he should get for spouting crap like that.
  • Mr. Eagles, the sentence from Cameron is too long.

    I also think it was a bit weird to only give out medals for Bletchley Park work so long after the war had ended.

    Wasn't weird, they wanted to keep it a secret, and the fact that we had broken Russian codes as well.

    Though don't get me started on how we treated Alan Turing
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471

    Pulpstar said:

    dr_spyn said:

    I can't find anything about MacShane's party affiliation.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24989402#TWEET958482

    Sky seem to be unable to help either.
    http://news.sky.com/story/1170223/former-mp-admits-13k-bogus-expense-claims

    'Rotherham' - Hardly going to be Tory central now is it...
    Justine Greening and William Hague were both born in Rotherham.

    Also Grab a Granny night in Rotherham is awesome, so I am told, ahem.

    UK Grandmother at 26 from Rotherham

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/432463.stm
    Surely another one's about due; that baby would now be 14...
  • NEW THREAD
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,500
    malcolmg said:

    WATO leading on this:

    Independent Scotland would face choice of tax rises or deep cuts, says IFS
    Scottish government contests Institute for Fiscal Studies report that predicts 'significant additional fiscal tightening'


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/18/independent-scotland-tax-spending-ifs-report

    Swinney & Darling on.....

    Ha Ha Ha , they still using OBR numbers , only 25% out on oil price in a couple of years, think how bad their forecast will be in 50 years.
    EDIT: Note even the people commenting on the Guardian are laughing at this absolute joke of a report.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    TGOHF said:

    Good pun from Peston - did he invent this one ?

    Robert Peston ‏@Peston 49m
    forgot to say that Co-op Bank's Flowers, styled the crystal methodist, was on Ed Miliband's finance advisory group

    Makes sense, whoever comes up with Labours spending plans must be on drugs.
  • You folks who know much more about politics across the world - in countries where the government is usually a coalition, is it common for a smaller party to shift its allegiance every few years or do the political contours change more slowly, on the whole?

    In countries with a lot of coalitions it's a bit unusual to have a third party in the centre. What usually happens is that you get a biggish centre-right party and a biggish centre-left party, and the small parties are at the extremes, so you tend to have an obvious centre-right coalition and an obvious centre-left one, and when they switch you go from one coalition to another. I'd have thought the UK would adopt a pattern like that if it got PR.
  • SouthCoastKevinSouthCoastKevin Posts: 158
    edited November 2013
    Deleted - wrong thread!
This discussion has been closed.