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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The hurricane on Labour’s horizon

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  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Noo said:

    Yorkcity said:
    Yes, I read that this morning, but couldn't shake the feeling of implausibility. When Labour members won't even vote for Corbyn, why would bankers? Surely they're going to stay put with the Tories or break Lib Dem?
    They would never vote for them, just be less hostile.
    Especially with the thought of crashing out with no deal,gets ever closer with the Conservatives.
  • what about paedofinder pursuivant (retired)?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    nico67 said:

    I think the reality is if you want to stop Brexit you need to vote Labour
    [...]
    Labours policy [...] tries to keep both sides on board .

    I want to stop Brexit, which rather means throwing the other side overboard, not keeping it on board.
    So thanks for the tip but no thanks.
  • Interesting tweet on why Corbyn backed off (for now):
    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1175324553897218050
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited September 2019

    Interesting tweet on why Corbyn backed off (for now):
    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1175324553897218050

    Dawn Butler has a big announcement this afternoon, it will all be OK
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Morning PB

    So Jezza is going to "abolish" weirdo peado obsessive Tom Watson!

    Stalin would be proud... :D

    Listen, I'm no fan of Watson or Labour in general, but calling him a "peado" obsessive is really quite off. I've noticed you do it several times, so you're clearly trying to make it a "thing", but just don't.
    Watson's role in Dolphin Square/Brittan/Proctor/Made-Up Allegations case is deeply troubling for many people. He appointed himself almost sole arbiter of this sort of thing for a while - possibly because he genuinely believed what was alleged or possibly just to boost his own profile. Either way, he cannot (and should not be allowed to) get away with his behaviour on this issue.
    Yes, I understand the issue, and your summary is a good critique. I'd add that politicians shouldn't involve themselves in criminal proceedings in general. Such is Watson's foolishness.
    But calling someone a "peado" obsessive strides well past that sensible criticism and firmly into some pretty libellous interpretations. GIN is being either very careless or pretty underhand, and the fact that he's done it more than once leads me to worry it's the latter.
    Not sure.

    He was rather obsessive about paedophiles.

    Quiet now though, which is remarkable.
    Yes. Though oddly, a lot of far right criticism of some mainstream politicians is that they don't care enough about paedophilia. I have seen a lot written about that odious little turd Tommy Robinson, but I haven't seen him called a "weirdo peado obsessive".
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138

    NEC policy on acting leader passed, basically the NEC runs labour/the country if an acting leader is required. Nice.

    What does this mean?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    nunuone said:

    NEC policy on acting leader passed, basically the NEC runs labour/the country if an acting leader is required. Nice.

    What does this mean?
    Conference is asked to approve the motion which states if the leader becomes incapacitated and the deputy takes over its subject to approval of the NEC, he or she cannot change cabinet positions unless vacancies arise without the approval of the NEC and cannot make major policy changes without the NEC
  • Mr. Noo, blindly believing claims led to besmirching the entirely good name of innocent men.

    It's the polar opposite of authorities refusing to act in cases that are credible (some of which had literal bags of evidence), such as allegations made in Rotherham and similar places.

    Wanting the authorities to neither immediately rule out or blindly believe claims but instead to assess them on their merits and investigate as appropriate is hopefully something we can all agree is a good thing.
  • Interesting tweet on why Corbyn backed off (for now):
    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1175324553897218050

    Dawn Butler has a big announcement this afternoon, it will all be OK
    All Butler does is still next to Corbyn. That appears to be her sole contribution to public life.
  • I wonder if this makes Watson Kirov, with a delay to his eventual very sad departure...
  • The Corbyn motion is not him pulling back. Instead of immediate abolition it's now a review on the basis that the role be replaced by someone who is a woman pledging fealty to Corbyn. It's the same outcome.

    Laura Pidcock, not Dawn Butler.

    As I understand it, though, if there is to be a change it will have to be approved by conference, so it won’t happen this side of an election. This time next year things are going to look very, very different.

  • nunuone said:

    NEC policy on acting leader passed, basically the NEC runs labour/the country if an acting leader is required. Nice.

    What does this mean?
    Conference is asked to approve the motion which states if the leader becomes incapacitated and the deputy takes over its subject to approval of the NEC, he or she cannot change cabinet positions unless vacancies arise without the approval of the NEC and cannot make major policy changes without the NEC
    So... if a Labour PM dies in office, the Deputy can't act without the approval of the NEC

    In what sense is that honouring parliamentary democracy?

    Putting the power to run the country in the hands of the NEC.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Mr. Noo, blindly believing claims led to besmirching the entirely good name of innocent men.

    It's the polar opposite of authorities refusing to act in cases that are credible (some of which had literal bags of evidence), such as allegations made in Rotherham and similar places.

    Wanting the authorities to neither immediately rule out or blindly believe claims but instead to assess them on their merits and investigate as appropriate is hopefully something we can all agree is a good thing.

    You're preaching to the converted. Politicians shouldn't publicly involve themselves in cases. We agree.
    My point is that people shouldn't call someone a "peado" obsessive.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    nunuone said:

    NEC policy on acting leader passed, basically the NEC runs labour/the country if an acting leader is required. Nice.

    What does this mean?
    Conference is asked to approve the motion which states if the leader becomes incapacitated and the deputy takes over its subject to approval of the NEC, he or she cannot change cabinet positions unless vacancies arise without the approval of the NEC and cannot make major policy changes without the NEC
    So... if a Labour PM dies in office, the Deputy can't act without the approval of the NEC

    In what sense is that honouring parliamentary democracy?

    Putting the power to run the country in the hands of the NEC.
    Politburo fun
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    nunuone said:

    NEC policy on acting leader passed, basically the NEC runs labour/the country if an acting leader is required. Nice.

    What does this mean?
    Conference is asked to approve the motion which states if the leader becomes incapacitated and the deputy takes over its subject to approval of the NEC, he or she cannot change cabinet positions unless vacancies arise without the approval of the NEC and cannot make major policy changes without the NEC
    So... if a Labour PM dies in office, the Deputy can't act without the approval of the NEC

    In what sense is that honouring parliamentary democracy?

    Putting the power to run the country in the hands of the NEC.
    Well, it's a nonsense of course. But that's merely party policy. It doesn't affect a PM's powers. A Labour PM in such circumstances could, of course, appoint whom he liked to cabinet. Even if the party took disciplinary action and suspended his leadership of the party, he'd still be PM.
  • Noo said:

    nunuone said:

    NEC policy on acting leader passed, basically the NEC runs labour/the country if an acting leader is required. Nice.

    What does this mean?
    Conference is asked to approve the motion which states if the leader becomes incapacitated and the deputy takes over its subject to approval of the NEC, he or she cannot change cabinet positions unless vacancies arise without the approval of the NEC and cannot make major policy changes without the NEC
    So... if a Labour PM dies in office, the Deputy can't act without the approval of the NEC

    In what sense is that honouring parliamentary democracy?

    Putting the power to run the country in the hands of the NEC.
    Well, it's a nonsense of course. But that's merely party policy. It doesn't affect a PM's powers. A Labour PM in such circumstances could, of course, appoint whom he liked to cabinet. Even if the party took disciplinary action and suspended his leadership of the party, he'd still be PM.
    Yep. Indeed it would be a failure of public duty not to act as PM in a proper, constitutional manner. Sod the Trots.
  • It’s hard to see England or any of the other home nations living with either of SA or NZ. Unbelievable levels of intensity, pace and skill.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    edited September 2019
    When Parliament returns it’s now surely impossible to see Swinson or the independents supporting a Corbyn caretaker ministry. So are we down to just “Clarke, extension and then election” or “election”, probably following a VONC?

    The question being, will Corbyn support a Clarke ministry when push comes to shove?
  • F1: Leclerc unexpectedly fast in third practice. Rather disinclined to tip at this stage, but I'll see what the markets say, just in case anything looks wonky.
  • Incidentally, Watson and his many supporters: are they going to just go campaign for Corbyn to be PM? It's absolutely fucking crackers. They're just waiting for the hammer to fall.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Seems like a silly fudge to keep a lid on things, but is enough to keep the gutless from doing more than just grumble.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    If labour can get through conference without going after the Jews it will be a miracle
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    Am I the only one here watching the cricket? :blush:
  • Mr. Woolie, they all share the same opinion if they all hate one another ;)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    I wonder if this makes Watson Kirov, with a delay to his eventual very sad departure...

    My mind has gone Kirov--> Kirov Ballet--> Watson in a tutu......
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Mr. Woolie, they all share the same opinion if they all hate one another ;)

    I'm waiting for Monemtum to condemn the Jewish plot against Tom Watson
  • Mr. Mark, well, it's better than what happened to the actual Kirov.

    For me, the name always conjures up the airships in Red Alert 3.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited September 2019

    I am sure they will fire off a few angry tweets in protest at this and then back to same old same old.
    Quite how they can be taken seriously whenever they have complaints about Corbyn I have no idea, I certainly don't believe a word of their supposed outrage. I can believe there is upset, but ultimately they decided that whatever their concerns fighting the evil Tories from within the Labour brand is more important, therefore they have declared that it is not a big deal. So I wish they'd just stop pretending their concerns are in any way important, when its just a way for them to tell themselves they are doing 'all they can'. I don't see why they expect the rest of the country to buy into their self massaging nonsense.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited September 2019
    And now over to Sunderland South and Houghton for the first declaration of the night, as reported this looks like a close one between the Conservatives and The Brexit Party with Labour sources confident they have come third here.
  • Mr. kle4, not unlike someone who goes on holiday several times a year and has multiple TVs/online devices but still goes on the odd march about the evils of climate change and berating the Government for not doing enough/anything/precisely what they want.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    And how over to Sunderland South and Houghton for the first declaration of the night, as reported this looks like a close one between the Conservatives and The Brexit Party with Labour sources confident they have come third here.

    "I'm hearing they are slightly less confident of saving their deposit though David...."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Is there a word in politics more misused at the moment that 'united' or 'unity'. Everyone insists they are the former or seeking the latter, to the point of meaninglessness when the country and in some cases parties are bitterly divided seeking outcomes that are diametrically opposed. Seeking unity in that situation isn't being reasonable, and it's not even delusional since people know they are not really seeking it, it is just plain nonsense.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    And how over to Sunderland South and Houghton for the first declaration of the night, as reported this looks like a close one between the Conservatives and The Brexit Party with Labour sources confident they have come third here.

    "I'm hearing they are slightly less confident of saving their deposit though David...."
    Obviously we are disappointed but it's only one result, I'm hearing very good reports from central Liverpool, we may take one or two seats there
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    kle4 said:

    Is there a word in politics more misused at the moment that 'united' or 'unity'. Everyone insists they are the former or seeking the latter, to the point of meaninglessness when the country and in some cases parties are bitterly divided seeking outcomes that are diametrically opposed. Seeking unity in that situation isn't being reasonable, and it's not even delusional since people know they are not really seeking it, it is just plain nonsense.
    But that is why Corbyn is exactly right to say in a second referendum he'd stay neutral and let individuals campaign as they see fit.
  • Wish Ladbrokes would get the markets going rather faster...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Was this whole thing just a ploy by Corbyn to appear to be the reasonable one? He 'quashes' the motion and therefore when someone says Corbynites are trying to push others around he can point to this and say that is not so.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Labour have heard there are 4 voters in the Herefordshire wilds that have no opinion on Brexit and are basing their strategy on getting those 4 votes.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    T20 semi finals, NZ v SA and ARG v FRA in the rugby, and yet the country's popcorn merchants are most grateful for the LAB conference.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    And now over to Sunderland South and Houghton for the first declaration of the night, as reported this looks like a close one between the Conservatives and The Brexit Party with Labour sources confident they have come third here.

    Con + Bxp 1st and 2nd on max. 40% combined vote share? Best of luck with your future bets, but that one will cost you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Despite best efforts to have their split and chaos ahead of conference, one wonders how the Tories intend to match this drama at their conference.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    And now over to Sunderland South and Houghton for the first declaration of the night, as reported this looks like a close one between the Conservatives and The Brexit Party with Labour sources confident they have come third here.

    The boundaries were different but Sunderland South was actually Tory held from 1953 -1964. The MP was Paul Williams.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited September 2019
    As a demonstration of shamelessness, I think Rentoul points it out well.
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1175354154950283264

    It's like the typical 'we're united, this is the media talking' stuff, which no one with integrity or self respect could possibly say when Watson himself was giving interviews about the disgrace of the move just a few hours ago. I do get that people are loyal to a party, I really get it, but how they can say black is white and white is black to defend the party I will never understand - some things are not a matter of interpretation or creative wording, they are just wrong.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Noo said:

    And now over to Sunderland South and Houghton for the first declaration of the night, as reported this looks like a close one between the Conservatives and The Brexit Party with Labour sources confident they have come third here.

    Con + Bxp 1st and 2nd on max. 40% combined vote share? Best of luck with your future bets, but that one will cost you.
    Con plus UKIP was 40% in 2015. I think 'max 40' is highly pessimistic, I expect, fanciful predictions aside, con plus BXP to be in excess of 50% here
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Noo said:

    kle4 said:

    Is there a word in politics more misused at the moment that 'united' or 'unity'. Everyone insists they are the former or seeking the latter, to the point of meaninglessness when the country and in some cases parties are bitterly divided seeking outcomes that are diametrically opposed. Seeking unity in that situation isn't being reasonable, and it's not even delusional since people know they are not really seeking it, it is just plain nonsense.
    But that is why Corbyn is exactly right to say in a second referendum he'd stay neutral and let individuals campaign as they see fit.
    Harold Wilson took a backseat during the 1975 Referendum campaign.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Wish Ladbrokes would get the markets going rather faster...

    Monster lap from Leclerc in P3.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    kle4 said:

    Despite best efforts to have their split and chaos ahead of conference, one wonders how the Tories intend to match this drama at their conference.

    I imagine it's going to be like the beginning of 1984, only with Juncker's face projected on stage
  • I find the Kremlinology here fascinating.
    Corbyn suddenly not enough of a Corbynist.

    https://twitter.com/graceblakeley/status/1175360299043577856?s=21
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    justin124 said:

    Noo said:

    kle4 said:

    Is there a word in politics more misused at the moment that 'united' or 'unity'. Everyone insists they are the former or seeking the latter, to the point of meaninglessness when the country and in some cases parties are bitterly divided seeking outcomes that are diametrically opposed. Seeking unity in that situation isn't being reasonable, and it's not even delusional since people know they are not really seeking it, it is just plain nonsense.
    But that is why Corbyn is exactly right to say in a second referendum he'd stay neutral and let individuals campaign as they see fit.
    Harold Wilson took a backseat during the 1975 Referendum campaign.
    I wonder if Camerons wishing he'd done the same ?
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138

    nunuone said:

    Why don't non-Corbynites join the Lib Dems already?

    Ho Swinson, LotO?
    Harsh. I mean she's a bit flirty but c'mon!
    Lol
  • Mr. B, yeah, I was surprised by that.

    Not tipping for qualifying in the blog.

    My only question mark over Leclerc would be the occasional error, as per Azerbaijan. He and Hamilton, with possible interest from Bottas/Verstappen seems the way it will go.

    Surprised, as I thought this would be a Mercedes/Red Bull contest.
  • Yorkcity said:
    I speak to a lot of bankers and other finance types. I would say that there are pretty varied opinions on whether Johnson/Brexit/populism or Corbyn/Labour/Communism is the lesser of the two evils. I think a clear majority would still prefer Johnson but it's certainly not 100%. Like any group, they are not homogeneous, some can look past their own tax bill and others can't, some are quite open to the idea that inequality is a problem and things need to change.
  • Webbe - the well-known Livingstone apologist and professional victim-card player.

    Next
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    CatMan said:

    kle4 said:

    Despite best efforts to have their split and chaos ahead of conference, one wonders how the Tories intend to match this drama at their conference.

    I imagine it's going to be like the beginning of 1984, only with Juncker's face projected on stage
    Oh I think we'll get a lot more than just 2 minutes of hate.
  • Butler's big new announcement:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49781137
  • It’s the number one issue facing the country, dontcha know?
  • Mr. Simon, it's fair. Employers have been put off hiring younger women due to the maternity leave laws, so it's only reasonable to put them off older women.

    :neutral:
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    On Topic,

    The other, slower burning, issue that Labour will face is the Trade Union Political Funds drying up.

    For background, 21 Unions have political funds including the big 3, and 11, including the big 3 are affiliated to labour, they are funded by the political Levey on members, typical 50p a month but that adds up, in the past all members could be charged this, and while there was an option to ‘opt out’ few did, partly because it was a lot of hassles for 50p a month, and partly because the unions did not advertise that this was an option.

    For scale the funds spent over £20 million every year form 2014-2017, and the labour affiliated ones over £19 million of this. Only about half of this is shown of the in the Elecral Commotion donation website, but the rest mostly finds its way in to helping the Labour party: some is used to pay big prises to but stalls in conferences, or adverts in internal party magazines, some is used to pay for ‘lesson officers’, who work in labour party office, some is spent directly on advertising posters or mail shots. Only a small amount sill be spent on admin.
    In march 2018 a new rule came in to effect where, new members would have to ‘opt in’ not ‘opt out’

    All bar one (TSSA) of the unions with political funds has now released their annual report, and there are 205,000 less people paying in to the political fund! About 5% and which represents, what I think is resemble to estimate as the majority of the people who would have joined in that time frame. This covers only 9 months as the rule came in to effect in march, so next years fall could be 6% or more.

    This is not an instant death nail, the funds still have 35 million in the bank and in income of £24 Million a year, but if they don’t win the next election, and revers the rule, then the party will have to work out how to operate with significantly less funding for the election after that.
  • Yorkcity said:
    I speak to a lot of bankers and other finance types. I would say that there are pretty varied opinions on whether Johnson/Brexit/populism or Corbyn/Labour/Communism is the lesser of the two evils. I think a clear majority would still prefer Johnson but it's certainly not 100%. Like any group, they are not homogeneous, some can look past their own tax bill and others can't, some are quite open to the idea that inequality is a problem and things need to change.
    Didn't the Economist endorse the Lib Dems in 2017? I could see that happening again.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    It’s the number one issue facing the country, dontcha know?
    Time off for tricky shits or the oppression remains
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Yorkcity said:
    I speak to a lot of bankers and other finance types. I would say that there are pretty varied opinions on whether Johnson/Brexit/populism or Corbyn/Labour/Communism is the lesser of the two evils. I think a clear majority would still prefer Johnson but it's certainly not 100%. Like any group, they are not homogeneous, some can look past their own tax bill and others can't, some are quite open to the idea that inequality is a problem and things need to change.
    Didn't the Economist endorse the Lib Dems in 2017? I could see that happening again.
    that wont exactly shift the voters.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    It’s the number one issue facing the country, dontcha know?
    For a lot of women, it is.
  • It’s the number one issue facing the country, dontcha know?
    There is no denying that menopause is a significant factor in the lives of women. But if you keep on extending specific protections/provisions for particular classes/conditions and so forth, where will it end?

    There has to be a balance between the role of the state and the role of the individual to take charge of their own lives. Not everything has to be controlled, legislated on, monitored and so forth.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Lansmann is said to be a very bright guy , yet this episode appears to demonstrate a clear lack of political intelligence and awareness. It may end up being a Westminster bubble affair, but how could he seriously believe that such a move - had it succeeded - would have not proved highly damaging to his own party?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    justin124 said:

    Lansmann is said to be a very bright guy , yet this episode appears to demonstrate a clear lack of political intelligence and awareness. It may end up being a Westminster bubble affair, but how could he seriously believe that such a move - had it succeeded - would have not proved highly damaging to his own party?

    Perhaps, conspiracist hat on here, he is taking one for the team by drawing fire on himself, so Corbyn can push through something else?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    It’s the number one issue facing the country, dontcha know?
    Things don't need to be the number one issue to be addressed. oxfordsimon raises some questions about how much issues like this require legislating on and so on, which is fair enough, but there's nothing peculiar about bringing it up even during a time of crisis. They still passed basic legislation during the Civil War after all.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    I should be heading to Barra today, but difficult family circumstances have kept me closer to home. Pissed off though, very pissed off.... I love my jaunts to the Outer Hebs.

    I am at Sumburgh Head. Weather's nice up here.
  • justin124 said:

    Noo said:

    kle4 said:

    Is there a word in politics more misused at the moment that 'united' or 'unity'. Everyone insists they are the former or seeking the latter, to the point of meaninglessness when the country and in some cases parties are bitterly divided seeking outcomes that are diametrically opposed. Seeking unity in that situation isn't being reasonable, and it's not even delusional since people know they are not really seeking it, it is just plain nonsense.
    But that is why Corbyn is exactly right to say in a second referendum he'd stay neutral and let individuals campaign as they see fit.
    Harold Wilson took a backseat during the 1975 Referendum campaign.
    I wonder if Camerons wishing he'd done the same ?
    We had to get away from the ‘doublespeak’ of the past. Margaret Thatcher had railed against Brussels, yet took the country into the Exchange Rate Mechanism. John Major had attacked the single currency, yet said he wanted Britain at ‘the heart of Europe’. The Conservative government had opposed a referendum on the Maastricht Treaty, yet most ministers privately prayed for the Dutch and Danish populations to reject it when they were given the chance in referendums of their own.
    David Cameron, For the Record.
  • Mr. Woolie, they all share the same opinion if they all hate one another ;)

    I'm waiting for Monemtum to condemn the Jewish plot against Tom Watson
    I see what you did there. :wink:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Ishmael_Z said:

    I should be heading to Barra today, but difficult family circumstances have kept me closer to home. Pissed off though, very pissed off.... I love my jaunts to the Outer Hebs.

    I am at Sumburgh Head. Weather's nice up here.
    Bit blowy over the west coast I'm told.

    Last time I was at Sumburgh Head I was chasing a River Warbler round a bit of scrub. Skulky little sod!
  • justin124 said:

    Lansmann is said to be a very bright guy , yet this episode appears to demonstrate a clear lack of political intelligence and awareness. It may end up being a Westminster bubble affair, but how could he seriously believe that such a move - had it succeeded - would have not proved highly damaging to his own party?

    In the same way that pineapple is "said to be" a viable pizza ingredient...
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Tom Watson shouldn’t play the martyr .

    If he doesn’t like the Brexit policy he should resign and leave the front bench . However if he doesn’t an elected leader should be changed by the membership and not a stitch up by the NEC.

    The compromise or in this case kicking the issue into the long grass was the correct decision.

    The ones truly disappointed at this fudge will be the right wing press and parade of journalists who had the front pages ready to go tomorrow and will still try desperately to cremate the story .

    The general public are unlikely to be moved by the story of the Deputy Leader not in the end being ousted !
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Apparently the Mail on Sunday have informed Jo Maugham instrumental in the prorogation case that they will be publishing his home address in their paper tomorrow even though he’s already received death threats .

    This is utterly despicable behaviour . Will they also be publishing the SC judges addresses in future if they go against the government !
  • Why did I not twig this before ?

    Labour's leader and deputy leader are...

    'Tom and Jerry'.

    That's all folks.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I should be heading to Barra today, but difficult family circumstances have kept me closer to home. Pissed off though, very pissed off.... I love my jaunts to the Outer Hebs.

    I am at Sumburgh Head. Weather's nice up here.
    Bit blowy over the west coast I'm told.

    Last time I was at Sumburgh Head I was chasing a River Warbler round a bit of scrub. Skulky little sod!
    Of course there was the famous actor named River Phoenix but River is certainly an unusual first name for a young lady. Perhaps Miss Warbler didn't quite appreciate your courting technique .... :wink:
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    nico67 said:

    Apparently the Mail on Sunday have informed Jo Maugham instrumental in the prorogation case that they will be publishing his home address in their paper tomorrow even though he’s already received death threats .

    This is utterly despicable behaviour . Will they also be publishing the SC judges addresses in future if they go against the government !

    I think that man is a complete #%## but that’s inexcusable. What possible pseudo-journalistic reason could they have invented to do that?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    I should be heading to Barra today, but difficult family circumstances have kept me closer to home. Pissed off though, very pissed off.... I love my jaunts to the Outer Hebs.

    I am at Sumburgh Head. Weather's nice up here.
    Bit blowy over the west coast I'm told.

    Last time I was at Sumburgh Head I was chasing a River Warbler round a bit of scrub. Skulky little sod!
    Yes no wind shortage here. Headed for Orkney then round the top to Lewis n Harris.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    junius said:

    Why did I not twig this before ?

    Labour's leader and deputy leader are...

    'Tom and Jerry'.

    That's all folks.

    haha!
    Boris & Dom = Pinky & the Brain?
  • nico67 said:

    Apparently the Mail on Sunday have informed Jo Maugham instrumental in the prorogation case that they will be publishing his home address in their paper tomorrow even though he’s already received death threats .

    This is utterly despicable behaviour . Will they also be publishing the SC judges addresses in future if they go against the government !

    Source?

    Whilst I don't believe that home addresses should be published, I would rather like to know the source of this - as it strikes me as rather implausible.

    If people want to send death threats (which, of course, they shouldn't - but there will always be loons both dangerous and not), then his email and work details are out in the public domain anyway.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    ab195 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently the Mail on Sunday have informed Jo Maugham instrumental in the prorogation case that they will be publishing his home address in their paper tomorrow even though he’s already received death threats .

    This is utterly despicable behaviour . Will they also be publishing the SC judges addresses in future if they go against the government !

    I think that man is a complete #%## but that’s inexcusable. What possible pseudo-journalistic reason could they have invented to do that?
    I don’t see why any article they might do on him would need his address to be included .

    This also is an indirect threat to the SC judges by suggesting they’ll have the same treatment , is this an attempt to put pressure on those judges .

    I expect they have already come to their judgement but still it’s disgraceful that a paper would risk the safety of someone in this manner .
  • justin124 said:

    Lansmann is said to be a very bright guy , yet this episode appears to demonstrate a clear lack of political intelligence and awareness. It may end up being a Westminster bubble affair, but how could he seriously believe that such a move - had it succeeded - would have not proved highly damaging to his own party?

    It's damaging to the party's prospects of beating the Tories but if that was the objective then none of it makes sense. They're supporting a leader who is rated by at best 20% of the voters - you don't do that if the main goal is to win a general election.

    OTOH if the goal is to control the Labour Party then purging the internal enemy leaders and thereby encouraging their supporters to self-purge makes total sense.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    nico67 said:

    Apparently the Mail on Sunday have informed Jo Maugham instrumental in the prorogation case that they will be publishing his home address in their paper tomorrow even though he’s already received death threats .

    This is utterly despicable behaviour . Will they also be publishing the SC judges addresses in future if they go against the government !

    Source?

    Whilst I don't believe that home addresses should be published, I would rather like to know the source of this - as it strikes me as rather implausible.

    If people want to send death threats (which, of course, they shouldn't - but there will always be loons both dangerous and not), then his email and work details are out in the public domain anyway.
    Jo maugham tweeted it himself
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    nico67 said:

    Apparently the Mail on Sunday have informed Jo Maugham instrumental in the prorogation case that they will be publishing his home address in their paper tomorrow even though he’s already received death threats .

    This is utterly despicable behaviour . Will they also be publishing the SC judges addresses in future if they go against the government !

    Presumably a hit piece along the lines of "rich elite in posh house wants to steal your brexit".
    Presumably it will be ok if someone publishes the address of Mail editor in return?
  • nico67 said:

    Apparently the Mail on Sunday have informed Jo Maugham instrumental in the prorogation case that they will be publishing his home address in their paper tomorrow even though he’s already received death threats .

    This is utterly despicable behaviour . Will they also be publishing the SC judges addresses in future if they go against the government !

    Source?

    Whilst I don't believe that home addresses should be published, I would rather like to know the source of this - as it strikes me as rather implausible.

    If people want to send death threats (which, of course, they shouldn't - but there will always be loons both dangerous and not), then his email and work details are out in the public domain anyway.
    Jo maugham tweeted it himself
    Firstly, I am not sure why the MoS would tell him that in advance
    Secondly, I cannot recall any paper publishing someone's address in this way.

    They can often allude to things with 'outside his leafy Hampstead home' or some such - that can give someone a good start in tracking down the necessary details.

    Plus one of his properties is mentioned on his Wikipedia profile - he may well have other homes, but one, at least, is very much in the public domain.

    I am still somewhat sceptical about this. It feels more like Maugham keeping his name in the media. I may be wrong - but it doesn't hang true based on the limited info we have
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Lansmann is said to be a very bright guy , yet this episode appears to demonstrate a clear lack of political intelligence and awareness. It may end up being a Westminster bubble affair, but how could he seriously believe that such a move - had it succeeded - would have not proved highly damaging to his own party?

    It's damaging to the party's prospects of beating the Tories but if that was the objective then none of it makes sense. They're supporting a leader who is rated by at best 20% of the voters - you don't do that if the main goal is to win a general election.

    OTOH if the goal is to control the Labour Party then purging the internal enemy leaders and thereby encouraging their supporters to self-purge makes total sense.
    But in psephological terms Labour's polling position - in relation to the Tories - is nothing like as dire as it appeared at the beginning of the 2017 election. Lansmann ought to know that.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    edited September 2019
    Noo said:

    But that is why Corbyn is exactly right to say in a second referendum he'd stay neutral and let individuals campaign as they see fit.

    Yep. It works just fine.

    Choice between (very) Soft Brexit and Remain, PM neutral, Labour MPs and members decide individually which side to back, most will be Remain but not all - public decides.

    The Deal will be the WA plus the PD amended for close alignment. The EU will play ball since both outcomes are acceptable to them.

    A valid criticism is that this Ref formulation steers to Remain in that it has no Hard Leave option. A valid criticism is NOT that the policy is confusing or difficult to understand. On the contrary it is very easy to understand. In fact I am not sure I have come across anything as easy as this to get my head around since I discovered Noddy books at the age of 15.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    Apparently the Mail on Sunday have informed Jo Maugham instrumental in the prorogation case that they will be publishing his home address in their paper tomorrow even though he’s already received death threats .

    This is utterly despicable behaviour . Will they also be publishing the SC judges addresses in future if they go against the government !

    Source?

    Whilst I don't believe that home addresses should be published, I would rather like to know the source of this - as it strikes me as rather implausible.

    If people want to send death threats (which, of course, they shouldn't - but there will always be loons both dangerous and not), then his email and work details are out in the public domain anyway.
    Jo maugham tweeted it himself
    Firstly, I am not sure why the MoS would tell him that in advance
    Secondly, I cannot recall any paper publishing someone's address in this way.

    They can often allude to things with 'outside his leafy Hampstead home' or some such - that can give someone a good start in tracking down the necessary details.

    Plus one of his properties is mentioned on his Wikipedia profile - he may well have other homes, but one, at least, is very much in the public domain.

    I am still somewhat sceptical about this. It feels more like Maugham keeping his name in the media. I may be wrong - but it doesn't hang true based on the limited info we have
    It’s irrelevant whether some of his info is in the public domain . Drawing attention to his address in a likely hatchet job given the toxic atmosphere is completely unnaceptable.

  • kinabalu said:

    Noo said:

    But that is why Corbyn is exactly right to say in a second referendum he'd stay neutral and let individuals campaign as they see fit.

    Yep. It works just fine.

    Choice between (very) Soft Brexit and Remain, PM neutral, Labour MPs and members decide individually which side to back, most will be Remain but not all - public decides.

    The Deal will be the WA plus the PD amended for close alignment. The EU will play ball since both outcomes are acceptable to them.

    A valid criticism is that this Ref formulation steers to Remain in that it has no Hard Leave option. A valid criticism is NOT that the policy is confusing or difficult to understand. On the contrary it is very easy to understand. In fact I am not sure I have come across anything as easy as this to get my head around since I discovered Noddy books at the age of 15.
    It is very difficult to believe a position which is for someone to want to be PM so that he can then renegotiate a deal - a deal which he will then not support in a referendum.

    That isn't a credible position as far as I am concerned. How can he be taken seriously in a negotiation when the people on the other side of the table know that he won't go out of his way to support the deal that they have spent many months creating.

    But then Corbyn doesn't know what his current policy is - as was clear in his BBC NI interview.
  • nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently the Mail on Sunday have informed Jo Maugham instrumental in the prorogation case that they will be publishing his home address in their paper tomorrow even though he’s already received death threats .

    This is utterly despicable behaviour . Will they also be publishing the SC judges addresses in future if they go against the government !

    Source?

    Whilst I don't believe that home addresses should be published, I would rather like to know the source of this - as it strikes me as rather implausible.

    If people want to send death threats (which, of course, they shouldn't - but there will always be loons both dangerous and not), then his email and work details are out in the public domain anyway.
    Jo maugham tweeted it himself
    Firstly, I am not sure why the MoS would tell him that in advance
    Secondly, I cannot recall any paper publishing someone's address in this way.

    They can often allude to things with 'outside his leafy Hampstead home' or some such - that can give someone a good start in tracking down the necessary details.

    Plus one of his properties is mentioned on his Wikipedia profile - he may well have other homes, but one, at least, is very much in the public domain.

    I am still somewhat sceptical about this. It feels more like Maugham keeping his name in the media. I may be wrong - but it doesn't hang true based on the limited info we have
    It’s irrelevant whether some of his info is in the public domain . Drawing attention to his address in a likely hatchet job given the toxic atmosphere is completely unnaceptable.

    I am not saying it is acceptable.

    What I am questioning is clear - Why would they tell him in advance if they were intent on doing him some harm? Given Maugham's love of the courts system, any newspaper would know that an alert of this sort is going to be subject to some sort of challenge.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited September 2019
    The Maugham property mentioned on wikipedia operates as a business / holiday lets and has a very public website. I would be surprised if he is talking about that property.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    edited September 2019

    It is very difficult to believe a position which is for someone to want to be PM so that he can then renegotiate a deal - a deal which he will then not support in a referendum.

    That isn't a credible position as far as I am concerned. How can he be taken seriously in a negotiation when the people on the other side of the table know that he won't go out of his way to support the deal that they have spent many months creating.

    So the policy makes sense so long as Corbyn announces in advance that he will take the Leave side in the Referendum?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    kinabalu said:

    Noo said:

    But that is why Corbyn is exactly right to say in a second referendum he'd stay neutral and let individuals campaign as they see fit.

    Yep. It works just fine.

    Choice between (very) Soft Brexit and Remain, PM neutral, Labour MPs and members decide individually which side to back, most will be Remain but not all - public decides.

    The Deal will be the WA plus the PD amended for close alignment. The EU will play ball since both outcomes are acceptable to them.

    A valid criticism is that this Ref formulation steers to Remain in that it has no Hard Leave option. A valid criticism is NOT that the policy is confusing or difficult to understand. On the contrary it is very easy to understand. In fact I am not sure I have come across anything as easy as this to get my head around since I discovered Noddy books at the age of 15.
    It is very difficult to believe a position which is for someone to want to be PM so that he can then renegotiate a deal - a deal which he will then not support in a referendum.

    That isn't a credible position as far as I am concerned. How can he be taken seriously in a negotiation when the people on the other side of the table know that he won't go out of his way to support the deal that they have spent many months creating.

    But then Corbyn doesn't know what his current policy is - as was clear in his BBC NI interview.
    Does it have to be Corbyn himself negotiating it? Couldn't he send a team of people who want a brexit deal with a mandate of "go and get what you can, then you campaign for it in the referendum". Could even be a cross party team.
  • Secondly, I cannot recall any paper publishing someone's address in this way.

    They can often allude to things with 'outside his leafy Hampstead home' or some such - that can give someone a good start in tracking down the necessary details.

    Yes, they'd say something like "millionaire lawyer Jo Maugham is right at home in leafy Deliverance Square, a near neighbour of famous inhabitants such as Justice Cocklecarrot and poet E.J. Thribb".

    Then illustrate it with a picture of said house in said leafy square which just happens to include the house number on the door.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited September 2019

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Apparently the Mail on Sunday have informed Jo Maugham instrumental in the prorogation case that they will be publishing his home address in their paper tomorrow even though he’s already received death threats .

    This is utterly despicable behaviour . Will they also be publishing the SC judges addresses in future if they go against the government !

    Source?

    Whilst I don't believe that home addresses should be published, I would rather like to know the source of this - as it strikes me as rather implausible.

    If people want to send death threats (which, of course, they shouldn't - but there will always be loons both dangerous and not), then his email and work details are out in the public domain anyway.
    Jo maugham tweeted it himself
    Firstly, I am not sure why the MoS would tell him that in advance
    Secondly, I cannot recall any paper publishing someone's address in this way.

    They can often allude to things with 'outside his leafy Hampstead home' or some such - that can give someone a good start in tracking down the necessary details.

    Plus one of his properties is mentioned on his Wikipedia profile - he may well have other homes, but one, at least, is very much in the public domain.

    I am still somewhat sceptical about this. It feels more like Maugham keeping his name in the media. I may be wrong - but it doesn't hang true based on the limited info we have
    It’s irrelevant whether some of his info is in the public domain . Drawing attention to his address in a likely hatchet job given the toxic atmosphere is completely unnaceptable.

    I am not saying it is acceptable.

    What I am questioning is clear - Why would they tell him in advance if they were intent on doing him some harm? Given Maugham's love of the courts system, any newspaper would know that an alert of this sort is going to be subject to some sort of challenge.
    It might be a legal requirement , I’m not an expert on press regulations but clearly why would it be necessary to include his address .

    The MOS is despicable at the best of times so the depths to which they’d sink is no surprise.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    The Maugham property mentioned on wikipedia operates as a business / holiday lets and has a very public website. I would be surprised if he is talking about that property.

    Even if it were a holiday let, it could encourage a nutter go attack it. This isn't just about Maugham's personal safety, it's about his rights as a property owner. It would be highly irresponsible journalism, and a wilfully stupid escalation.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited September 2019
    Looking at his tweets, it seems like the Mail story is some allegation about his dealing in regards this property.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Secondly, I cannot recall any paper publishing someone's address in this way.

    They can often allude to things with 'outside his leafy Hampstead home' or some such - that can give someone a good start in tracking down the necessary details.

    Yes, they'd say something like "millionaire lawyer Jo Maugham is right at home in leafy Deliverance Square, a near neighbour of famous inhabitants such as Justice Cocklecarrot and poet E.J. Thribb".

    Then illustrate it with a picture of said house in said leafy square which just happens to include the house number on the door.
    Uh, that's Lord Chief Justice Cocklecarrot these days. Keep up.
This discussion has been closed.