Can someone tell me - if not dodgy for the site - what Miliband is supposed to have done?
This is a genuine question - I haven't been following it that closely, and all I get on here is mutterings of the black spot. For what?
As Victoria Coren pointed out on HIGNFY, it's a bit like The Wire. Unless you have followed every single one of Carlotta's updates you have zero chance of grasping the enormity of this massive story.
What do you think of the Labour-Uncut link I posted below?
Carlotta, no one gives a t*ss !
It was a response to questions from both Carola & BaJ......so If you 'don't give a toss' why bother responding? Or do you 'give a toss' and pray that it goes away?
The summary seems to be that Unite wanted their candidate to win. I have been in the Labour Party for over 30 years. Is that really news ?
What is news is the Leader's office conniving in that, then in a moment of panic the Leader denouncing these very same 'machine politics', calling an inquiry and the police and promising to reform Labour funding.....all as a result of something he may have been aware of all along......
Can someone tell me - if not dodgy for the site - what Miliband is supposed to have done?
This is a genuine question - I haven't been following it that closely, and all I get on here is mutterings of the black spot. For what?
Ed Miliband did not tackle the machine politics of Falkirk thoroughly. Or swiftly. Instead, he connived in it. Those of us who have been perplexed at his actions over the past fortnight now have our answer.
This fundamentally changes the context for Ed Miliband’s speech launching the union link reforms in July this year. When he spoke, attacking “machine politics” and what had gone on in Falkirk, it is very likely Ed Miliband did so in the full knowledge that his team had given the green light to Unite’s activities in the constituency.
I don't really get the Miliband/balls email leak. I mean, the leak itself is news (who? why? whose agenda?) but not the content. It's almost boring - given the DM headline I was expecting mcbride style fireworks. That it is not.
Anyway, seeing as you PB sunday morning philistines are clearly skipping church, here's a sermon for the closet homophobes on fundamental human decency. It's a friend-of-a-friends coming out story, and it's beautiful;
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
I have believed that the population density of Holland is greater than that of England. Do you have the number?
We're 51st, with a population density less than one-fiftieth of the most dense.
Even skipping the city states, we're one sixth the level of Malta. Not a place I think of as insanely crowded.
I am really surprised to find India with its vast deserts and mountainous regions to be so high. Bangladesh is well known. Japan also very high and very comparable to Britain. Well developed economy and an island country, I was in South Korea only last month. It's mostly wilderness, like Britain, I suppose.
To be very honest, I do not even know the full details of what "went on" in Falkirk. The summary seems to be that Unite wanted their candidate to win. I have been in the Labour Party for over 30 years. Is that really news ? You might be surprised to know that the Trade Unions gave birth to the Labour Party. Unions are part of the Labour family. My own preference is for one member , one vote and it will come sooner rather than later.
It would matter if I had read about 10 other constituencies but so far even with you and Fitalass working overtime, I have not heard a second name being mentioned. So, like the rest of the country, for me, so far, it's a big yawn.
In the meantime, why don't you work to get Anan Soubry a winnable seat ? She deserves to become your leader.
In that case, should Labour be open and honest with their affiliation, and say they only support working class people providing they belong to a union?
Can someone tell me - if not dodgy for the site - what Miliband is supposed to have done?
This is a genuine question - I haven't been following it that closely, and all I get on here is mutterings of the black spot. For what?
As Victoria Coren pointed out on HIGNFY, it's a bit like The Wire. Unless you have followed every single one of Carlotta's updates you have zero chance of grasping the enormity of this massive story.
What do you think of the Labour-Uncut link I posted below?
Carlotta, no one gives a t*ss !
It was a response to questions from both Carola & BaJ......so If you 'don't give a toss' why bother responding? Or do you 'give a toss' and pray that it goes away?
The summary seems to be that Unite wanted their candidate to win. I have been in the Labour Party for over 30 years. Is that really news ?
What is news is the Leader's office conniving in that, then in a moment of panic the Leader denouncing these very same 'machine politics', calling an inquiry and the police and promising to reform Labour funding.....all as a result of something he may have been aware of all along......
Interesting Economist article on the challenges facing the tenant of Downing Street in 2015:
The 2015 in-tray A mighty pile of unfinished business teeters over Britain’s next government The next prime minister will enter Downing Street with this pile of unfinished business looming over him. Events will force him to confront much of it. And when he does, it could rend his party, particularly if he has a small majority and is thus at the mercy of troublesome backbenchers. Labour is just as divided over Europe, press regulation, airports and austerity as the Conservatives are—perhaps more so. For that reason, the large to-do list may determine who runs Britain. If the result of the election is close, even the most tribal leader may see safety (and political stability) in numbers, and plump for another coalition.
And this assumes Scotland does not vote for Independence.....
Can someone tell me - if not dodgy for the site - what Miliband is supposed to have done?
This is a genuine question - I haven't been following it that closely, and all I get on here is mutterings of the black spot. For what?
As Victoria Coren pointed out on HIGNFY, it's a bit like The Wire. Unless you have followed every single one of Carlotta's updates you have zero chance of grasping the enormity of this massive story.
What do you think of the Labour-Uncut link I posted below?
Carlotta, no one gives a t*ss !
It was a response to questions from both Carola & BaJ......so If you 'don't give a toss' why bother responding? Or do you 'give a toss' and pray that it goes away?
The summary seems to be that Unite wanted their candidate to win. I have been in the Labour Party for over 30 years. Is that really news ?
What is news is the Leader's office conniving in that, then in a moment of panic the Leader denouncing these very same 'machine politics', calling an inquiry and the police and promising to reform Labour funding.....all as a result of something he may have been aware of all along......
So, why is it such a big yawn ?
If its a 'big yawn' why are the press still covering it, and why was Andy Burnham's 'NHS' interview on the Sunday Politics ended with it?
Or perhaps alleged sharp practice over the selection of MPs is newsworthy?
I 'ave learned enuff about Political-Betting to buy the slu7(t) that is "Tory win". If some market is offering 4.5+ on a Tory majority for sure it will 'swing-back' to around 1.5 in the next twelve months. Free-cash from da' benefit-monkees innit: Buy early; lay-back later!
As The Honourable PfP suggests: Do yah owen [feckin'] reseerch...! :end-of-warning:
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
I have believed that the population density of Holland is greater than that of England. Do you have the number?
BBC Politics had two Labour supporting Guardian hacks in the comment seat this Sunday. Nicholas Watt and Zoe Williams. Plus one from the FT. Hardly balance!
The Financial Times should be regarded as independent. At the 2005 election it sided with Labour and in 2010 with Conservative. It's chief econonics writer, Martin Wolf, tends to have opinions aligned with the left. whilst its political commentator, Janan Ganesh, who was on the programme today, is Conservative minded.
Can someone tell me - if not dodgy for the site - what Miliband is supposed to have done?
This is a genuine question - I haven't been following it that closely, and all I get on here is mutterings of the black spot. For what?
As Victoria Coren pointed out on HIGNFY, it's a bit like The Wire. Unless you have followed every single one of Carlotta's updates you have zero chance of grasping the enormity of this massive story.
What do you think of the Labour-Uncut link I posted below?
Carlotta, no one gives a t*ss !
It was a response to questions from both Carola & BaJ......so If you 'don't give a toss' why bother responding? Or do you 'give a toss' and pray that it goes away?
The summary seems to be that Unite wanted their candidate to win. I have been in the Labour Party for over 30 years. Is that really news ?
What is news is the Leader's office conniving in that, then in a moment of panic the Leader denouncing these very same 'machine politics', calling an inquiry and the police and promising to reform Labour funding.....all as a result of something he may have been aware of all along......
So, why is it such a big yawn ?
If its a 'big yawn' why are the press still covering it, and why was Andy Burnham's 'NHS' interview on the Sunday Politics ended with it?
Or perhaps alleged sharp practice over the selection of MPs is newsworthy?
Perhaps it is, and especially in Scotland. The question is, whose votes will be swayed in 2015?
This is like the expenses scandal: voters assume they are all at it. Unite, Progress, A-listers, all-women shortlists, carpetbaggers, and the rest. Who had the strongest Geordie accent: Peter Mandelson or David Miliband?
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
London is a city. The other names are countries. In that case, Singapore , Hong Kong ?
Go to Kensington High Street on any day and at any time between 10am and 6 pm. You will suffocate, Surbiton. And it's the same for many of our main streets in London. I've never seen such dense crowds milling around in all my nearly 80 years.
MikeK: I walked along Ken High St 15 mins ago. And am about to head out again. It's not too bad - although Sunday does tend to draw in the shopping crowd.
"The 200,000 figure for 'Roma migrants' is taken from a report by a team at the University of Salford- to be precise, they give a figure of 197,705. http://www.salford.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/363118/Migrant_Roma... It's worth looking at how this estimate was arrived at- both the original data collection and the inference to a national figure.
The basic data comes from questionnaire returns from 51 local authorities in the UK. The questionnaire was in fact sent to 406 local authorities, and achieved a response rate of 37% or 151 authorities. Of the authorities that responded, 80 said they were not aware of any Roma in their area, 12 had no information or couldn't access the information and 59 were aware of Roma living in their area. Of that 59, 51 provided an estimate of their local Roma population. This is the data from which the 200,000 figure is ultimately derived. How robust is it?"
Conservatives select their new PPC in North East Hampshire today.
The structure of Conservative selections obviously favour people applying for many seats at the same time. In the last month, we have seen many names recurring in the shortlists and longlists of different seats. So a) are they so good? b) the rest is quite weak? c) both of previous points d) is there some CCHQ pressure to push for those people?
Sure, it is an imperfect survey, as all surveys are, but these are the best figures that we have. I would favour an occassional survey with mandatory participation to determine these issues for social planning. We could call it the National Census....
We do know that between Leicester, Rotherham and Sheffield alone that there are about 15000 East European Roma. How out of line are these with other communities?
"The 200,000 figure for 'Roma migrants' is taken from a report by a team at the University of Salford- to be precise, they give a figure of 197,705. http://www.salford.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/363118/Migrant_Roma... It's worth looking at how this estimate was arrived at- both the original data collection and the inference to a national figure.
The basic data comes from questionnaire returns from 51 local authorities in the UK. The questionnaire was in fact sent to 406 local authorities, and achieved a response rate of 37% or 151 authorities. Of the authorities that responded, 80 said they were not aware of any Roma in their area, 12 had no information or couldn't access the information and 59 were aware of Roma living in their area. Of that 59, 51 provided an estimate of their local Roma population. This is the data from which the 200,000 figure is ultimately derived. How robust is it?"
Dan Hodges, adding to the Gaiety of the nation: "New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to James Morris, Tory MP."
Cheers. But what's he done that most folk on the street would be surprised at or shocked about? Or not think that some version of this goes on in all parties when it comes to vested interests?
The fact that Labour are doing this is something that will surprise or shock very few people.
Whether it is correct is another matter.
I'm not suggesting that it's right. Just that most people would expect all parties to be at it.
Is there any evidence that the other parties would be at it?
A genuine question, I don't know. Having lived mainly in Labour areas when in the UK (except now, we certainly had people 'supporting' Labour who didn't really know about it, but were often told that if they were working class, they should be supporting Labour, so end of story.
Ahh, the old "political wing of the British people" line.
Another thread on Con maj - yet never any posts backing the Con maj bet.
Pushing on an open door.
The reason is quite simple. I don't think that it is possible while so many 2010 LDs say they'll vote LAB.
If that changes or other factors come into play I'll change my position.
My preferred outcome is a continuation of what we've got.
I'm disappointed. Don't forget on current poll projections the Lib Dems would struggle to get more than 40 MPs. So we'd be looking at another coalition in which the Tories were even more dominant. Just look at Cameron's Lord Mayor speech last week. There's been no serious 'modernisation'. Just the same old right wing Tories. And you want a government dominated by them.
Why are the Tories struggling of late? I suggested last night it was down to John Major. Popular opinion says its the energy price freeze. But that was back in September. I think Ed Miliband provided Cameron with some bait when he criticised the energy companies, it gave Cameron the room to set out his stall as the pro-business PM. He swallowed the bait and it's harming him. He looks more and more like a big business stooge.
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
I have believed that the population density of Holland is greater than that of England. Do you have the number?
We're 51st, with a population density less than one-fiftieth of the most dense.
Even skipping the city states, we're one sixth the level of Malta. Not a place I think of as insanely crowded.
Thanks for the reference. But I specifically said "England" rather than "United Kingdom".
But then you'd probably want to post the equivalent numbers for population density in Bavaria, or Ile de France, to get apples to apples.
England is not, after all, currently a country. However, were it to be one, it would still have a population less dense than Belgium or the Netherlands or Malta or Taiwan or south Korea and provably a few other places that you wouldn't think of as notably crowded.
Frank Booth I would agree, and Cameron's call for 'permanent austerity' in his Lord Mayor's speech seems to have led to some shift from Tory to LD in the latest polls as I suggested last night
Ed's 'fight' with Len in Falkirk will be brilliant for Ed...
@SamCoatesTimes: Unite on Falkirk: "Worth noting here that the Labour leadership was well aware of Unite's political strategy in Falkirk and approved of it"
Can someone tell me - if not dodgy for the site - what Miliband is supposed to have done?
What do you think of the Labour-Uncut link I posted below?
Carlotta, no one gives a t*ss !
It was a response to questions from both Carola & BaJ......so If you 'don't give a toss' why bother responding? Or do you 'give a toss' and pray that it goes away?
What do you think of the Labour-Uncut link I posted below?
Carlotta, no one gives a t*ss !
It was a response to questions from both Carola & BaJ......so If you 'don't give a toss' why bother responding? Or do you 'give a toss' and pray that it goes away?
The summary seems to be that Unite wanted their candidate to win. I have been in the Labour Party for over 30 years. Is that really news ?
What is news is the Leader's office conniving in that, then in a moment of panic the Leader denouncing these very same 'machine politics', calling an inquiry and the police and promising to reform Labour funding.....all as a result of something he may have been aware of all along......
So, why is it such a big yawn ? If its a 'big yawn' why are the press still covering it, and why was Andy Burnham's 'NHS' interview on the Sunday Politics ended with it?
Or perhaps alleged sharp practice over the selection of MPs is newsworthy?
Do you honestly think the general public notices such things ? So why has Labour's lead , if anything, has firmed up since you have been obsessed about it ?
I think we know how these stats arguments go (and the stats on the Roma are far from exhaustive in either direction.
I post some data showing Londons schools have improved at the same time as immigration rose You post an Encoh Powell speech
I post some data showing crime in London has fallen as immigration rose You post an Enoch Powell speech.
I post some data showing migrants are less likely to claim benefits You post an Encoh Powell speech.
And so on.
Then Mr Jones pops up to say the BBC is covering everything up, then we start again.
No I dont
I understand that there is more to the immigration argument than stats can possibly show. So do most people who arent welded to a political ideology.
You know Im right, hence the lies x
Sorry did you post something, I can't see due to the River Tiber foaming with blood x.
How would you know if it were or not?
There are plenty of examples of violence that wouldnt have taken place had Powell been listened to.
How long have you got?
Enoch Powell was one of v few people to accurately forecast immigration numbers in English political history. but truth doesnt come into it with your distortions
@ChrisMasonBBC: Downing St ring up saying can we get into our 9am bulletins that the PM has rejected a call to lower the age of consent to 15...
Incompetent twits alert
@ChrisMasonBBC: ...but then send a statement saying they "have plans to change it." Turns out they missed out the word "no."
How delicious..... tim, how do you do it? Call out the blues for incompetent twits....
Chris Deerin@chrisdeerin3m New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to Mott the Hoople, band
Chris Deerin@chrisdeerin8m New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to Anne Maurice, House Doctor
Dan Hodges@DPJHodges20m New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to James Morris, Tory MP.
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
London is a city. The other names are countries. In that case, Singapore , Hong Kong ?
Go to Kensington High Street on any day and at any time between 10am and 6 pm. You will suffocate, Surbiton. And it's the same for many of our main streets in London. I've never seen such dense crowds milling around in all my nearly 80 years.
I agree London's pretty busy, though Oxford Street is the only place where it's IMO a real nuisance, and no doubt all the tourists there are good for business. I live on the Holloway Road, which is brisk at most times but not inconveniently crowded. I think most Londoners take the crowds as part of living in the capital, and many even quite like the buzz. There are plenty of other places to live for those who prefer peace and quiet, and honestly I think it's a bit eccentric to live in London with that preference, unless there are strong personal reasons.
Dan Hodges, adding to the Gaiety of the nation: "New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to James Morris, Tory MP."
Hodges is briliant on Twitter today, claiming all the Lib Dems in Lab/Con marginals are returning by 2015, taken apart by Rob Ford he resorts to
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 2h @robfordmancs Rob: a) Why are you so angry about this b) Why are you becoming abusive c) Are you really a university lecturer.
Ed's 'fight' with Len in Falkirk will be brilliant for Ed...
@SamCoatesTimes: Unite on Falkirk: "Worth noting here that the Labour leadership was well aware of Unite's political strategy in Falkirk and approved of it"
"What we saw in Falkirk is the death throes of the old politics. It is a symbol of what is wrong with politics. That was a politics closed, a politics of the machine, a politics hated and rightly so."
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
London is a city. The other names are countries. In that case, Singapore , Hong Kong ?
Go to Kensington High Street on any day and at any time between 10am and 6 pm. You will suffocate, Surbiton. And it's the same for many of our main streets in London. I've never seen such dense crowds milling around in all my nearly 80 years.
I agree London's pretty busy, though Oxford Street is the only place where it's IMO a real nuisance, and no doubt all the tourists there are good for business. I live on the Holloway Road, which is brisk at most times but not inconveniently crowded. I think most Londoners take the crowds as part of living in the capital, and many even quite like the buzz. There are plenty of other places to live for those who prefer peace and quiet, and honestly I think it's a bit eccentric to live in London with that preference, unless there are strong personal reasons.
A lot of people living in London arent Londoners, thats why they dont mind
Dan Hodges, adding to the Gaiety of the nation: "New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to James Morris, Tory MP."
The bad news is that these incompetent SpAds will be running the country in a decade or so (unless Unite can get some actual non-PPE workers selected).
Chris Deerin@chrisdeerin8m New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to Anne Maurice, House Doctor
Dan Hodges@DPJHodges20m New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to James Morris, Tory MP. ----------------------------
"The 200,000 figure for 'Roma migrants' is taken from a report by a team at the University of Salford- to be precise, they give a figure of 197,705. http://www.salford.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/363118/Migrant_Roma... It's worth looking at how this estimate was arrived at- both the original data collection and the inference to a national figure.
The basic data comes from questionnaire returns from 51 local authorities in the UK. The questionnaire was in fact sent to 406 local authorities, and achieved a response rate of 37% or 151 authorities. Of the authorities that responded, 80 said they were not aware of any Roma in their area, 12 had no information or couldn't access the information and 59 were aware of Roma living in their area. Of that 59, 51 provided an estimate of their local Roma population. This is the data from which the 200,000 figure is ultimately derived. How robust is it?"
How robust is your bollocks on immigration living from where you live,I can tell you pal,the part of Bradford I live as seen a big intake of the roma people.
This is why the conservative trust immigration as fallen back,no party is trusted on immigration except for ukip.
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
London is a city. The other names are countries. In that case, Singapore , Hong Kong ?
Go to Kensington High Street on any day and at any time between 10am and 6 pm. You will suffocate, Surbiton. And it's the same for many of our main streets in London. I've never seen such dense crowds milling around in all my nearly 80 years.
I agree London's pretty busy, though Oxford Street is the only place where it's IMO a real nuisance, and no doubt all the tourists there are good for business. I live on the Holloway Road, which is brisk at most times but not inconveniently crowded. I think most Londoners take the crowds as part of living in the capital, and many even quite like the buzz. There are plenty of other places to live for those who prefer peace and quiet, and honestly I think it's a bit eccentric to live in London with that preference, unless there are strong personal reasons.
A lot of people living in London arent Londoners, thats why they dont mind
Drive them out, along with their educations, mobility and wealth creating ways.
Chris Deerin@chrisdeerin8m New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to Anne Maurice, House Doctor
Dan Hodges@DPJHodges20m New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to James Morris, Tory MP. ----------------------------
Looks like both are being fed "stories" by CCHQ.
Why? Surely minor incompetence is less damaging than deliberate infighting and leaking?
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
London is a city. The other names are countries. In that case, Singapore , Hong Kong ?
Go to Kensington High Street on any day and at any time between 10am and 6 pm. You will suffocate, Surbiton. And it's the same for many of our main streets in London. I've never seen such dense crowds milling around in all my nearly 80 years.
I agree London's pretty busy, though Oxford Street is the only place where it's IMO a real nuisance, and no doubt all the tourists there are good for business. I live on the Holloway Road, which is brisk at most times but not inconveniently crowded. I think most Londoners take the crowds as part of living in the capital, and many even quite like the buzz. There are plenty of other places to live for those who prefer peace and quiet, and honestly I think it's a bit eccentric to live in London with that preference, unless there are strong personal reasons.
A lot of people living in London arent Londoners, thats why they dont mind
Drive them out, along with their educations, mobility and wealth creating ways.
A lot of people living in London arent Londoners, thats why they dont mind
The bit I still struggle with, isam, is why you, or me for that matter, should have any say whatsoever on who lives on this island. Really, what you're saying is that - because we had the good fortune to be born on this sceptred isle - that we should get to have a veto on other people coming here.
The bit I still struggle with, isam, is why you, or me for that matter, should have any say whatsoever on who lives on this island. Really, what you're saying is that - because we had the good fortune to be born on this sceptred isle - that we should get to have a veto on other people coming here.
I don't understand the basis of your morality.
That's no more than a thinly veiled criticism of the legitimacy of democracy.
A lot of people living in London arent Londoners, thats why they dont mind
The bit I still struggle with, isam, is why you, or me for that matter, should have any say whatsoever on who lives on this island. Really, what you're saying is that - because we had the good fortune to be born on this sceptred isle - that we should get to have a veto on other people coming here.
I don't understand the basis of your morality.
So if everyone, everysingle person, in Europe decided to move to England, at what point would you say it was too much?
Or are you saying no one has the right to ever say that?
A lot of people living in London arent Londoners, thats why they dont mind
The bit I still struggle with, isam, is why you, or me for that matter, should have any say whatsoever on who lives on this island. Really, what you're saying is that - because we had the good fortune to be born on this sceptred isle - that we should get to have a veto on other people coming here.
I don't understand the basis of your morality.
So if everyone, everysingle person, in Europe decided to move to England, at what point would you say it was too much?
Or are you saying no one has the right to ever say that?
Your assumption is that people are irrational. That makes no sense.
But you're absolutely right on your second point. I don't have any right to dictate to other people whether they are allowed to buy the house next door or compete with me in the labour market.
Connections with politics...must be speculation, or an attempt to spice up the story. Co-Op good at food, but bad at banking. Must have been run by people who thought Ethics was a cricket team.
'Ethics' are Etonian Tories that tick-boxes. Have you failed to understand Wee-Timmy's bigoted rants...?
A lot of people living in London arent Londoners, thats why they dont mind
The bit I still struggle with, isam, is why you, or me for that matter, should have any say whatsoever on who lives on this island. Really, what you're saying is that - because we had the good fortune to be born on this sceptred isle - that we should get to have a veto on other people coming here.
I don't understand the basis of your morality.
So if everyone, everysingle person, in Europe decided to move to England, at what point would you say it was too much?
Or are you saying no one has the right to ever say that?
Your assumption is that people are irrational. That makes no sense.
But you're absolutely right on your second point. I don't have any right to dictate to other people whether they are allowed to buy the house next door or compete with me in the labour market.
So you favour open borders for all, no passports etc?
The bit I still struggle with, isam, is why you, or me for that matter, should have any say whatsoever on who lives on this island. Really, what you're saying is that - because we had the good fortune to be born on this sceptred isle - that we should get to have a veto on other people coming here.
I don't understand the basis of your morality.
That's no more than a thinly veiled criticism of the legitimacy of democracy.
I believe there are fundamental rights that cannot be voted away. So, I believe, do you. Would it be acceptable for the government to pass a law denying red headed people the vote? Clearly not.
I regard freedom of labour to be one of the fundamental rights which the government cannot over-ride. You do not.
A lot of people living in London arent Londoners, thats why they dont mind
The bit I still struggle with, isam, is why you, or me for that matter, should have any say whatsoever on who lives on this island. Really, what you're saying is that - because we had the good fortune to be born on this sceptred isle - that we should get to have a veto on other people coming here.
I don't understand the basis of your morality.
It's better than that, the views of a Kray about who lives in London count for more than yours, incomer
Why would you contrast a white, English criminal with a bright, industrious immigrant?
Isnt that the kind of lazy, stereotyping approach that real fighters of racism fought against 40 years ago, and what people who dont understand Enoch Powells speech criticise him for?
The figure is the best estimate that we have, please make an evidence based case for a different number.
I am a LibDem, and pro-Europe. I do not want to stop the free movement of people, I just want there to be proper planning for the influx (not least because I am involved with planning care for the population, and accurate figures are required), and for migrants not to be a burden on the tax-payer. I would like the UK to copy some of the restrictions that other EU countries apply for benefits, so that they are linked to a history of contributions.
In other words: Romanian doctors are fine, Romanian Big Issue sellers are not.
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
London is a city. The other names are countries. In that case, Singapore , Hong Kong ?
A lot of people living in London arent Londoners, thats why they dont mind
Drive them out, along with their educations, mobility and wealth creating ways.
A scientist repeats a spurious figure while voting lib Dem despite wanting to end free movement in the EU
Should it influence thoughtful people's views on whether EdM is a suitable person to be PM: absolutely.
What has he done wrong exactly?
I haven't followed every detail because process stories tend to bore me, so happy to be corrected.
1. He (or at least his office) knew about and actively connived with Unite's recruitment drive. He agreed a deal whereby the applications could be processed despite concerns being raised by Labour's head of compliance. Any yet when it was publicly reported he expressed surprise, shock and horror at "machine politics". That makes him a hypocrite
2. He had a deal with Unite, but as soon as it was in his interests to turn them over he did. As he did with Cameron over Syria and on other occasions. That kind of self-interested ruthlessness may make him a good politician, but it makes him untrustworthy.
This makes it a character question. I don't want an untrustworthy hypocrite as PM, almost regardless of their policies. But I fully acknowledge that most people have even less interest in process stories than I do, so the impact on national votes will be minimal
So you favour open borders for all, no passports etc?
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - AJP Taylor
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
London is a city. The other names are countries. In that case, Singapore , Hong Kong ?
Go to Kensington High Street on any day and at any time between 10am and 6 pm. You will suffocate, Surbiton. And it's the same for many of our main streets in London. I've never seen such dense crowds milling around in all my nearly 80 years.
They are shoppers. Most probably tourists with ill-gotten wealth giving this economy a boost !
Just look at how house prices in Kensington have been wrecked by it though, it's devastating
It has been devastating. Kensington as a community no longer exists - many of the homes are vacant all year round, and many of the rest are only inhabited by transient owners. When I last lived here (as a kid) it was a middle class professional enclave - doctors, architects and the like. Not affordable by everyone, certainly, but a group of people who would put down roots in an area, form a community and support local institutions. That is missing now.
Chris Deerin@chrisdeerin8m New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to Anne Maurice, House Doctor
Dan Hodges@DPJHodges20m New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to James Morris, Tory MP. ----------------------------
Looks like both are being fed "stories" by CCHQ.
Why? Surely minor incompetence is less damaging than deliberate infighting and leaking?
Is infighting always damaging? Blair and Thatcher each won several elections despite well-publicised splits?
So you favour open borders for all, no passports etc?
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - AJP Taylor
Cheap and easy for people to nip around the world 100 years ago was it?!
So you favour open borders for all, no passports etc?
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - AJP Taylor
I believe there are fundamental rights that cannot be voted away. So, I believe, do you. Would it be acceptable for the government to pass a law denying red headed people the vote? Clearly not.
I regard freedom of labour to be one of the fundamental rights which the government cannot over-ride. You do not.
I strongly support free markets, whether in goods or services, or labour. I have always taken the view that immigration restriction is a species of protectionism. But it is important to understand the bases of people's positions. Your support of freedom of labour is at heart philosophical, and consequently, I assume, would remain unchanged if it could in fact be demonstrated that freedom of labour was injurious to the common good.
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
I have believed that the population density of Holland is greater than that of England. Do you have the number?
We're 51st, with a population density less than one-fiftieth of the most dense.
Even skipping the city states, we're one sixth the level of Malta. Not a place I think of as insanely crowded.
Thanks for the reference. But I specifically said "England" rather than "United Kingdom".
But then you'd probably want to post the equivalent numbers for population density in Bavaria, or Ile de France, to get apples to apples.
England is not, after all, currently a country. However, were it to be one, it would still have a population less dense than Belgium or the Netherlands or Malta or Taiwan or south Korea and provably a few other places that you wouldn't think of as notably crowded.
Interesting interview with Tebbit on R4 - a fan of Ernie Bevin & Clem Attlee - insisted the bust of Bevin be restored to prominence after his officials had sent it to the cellar on the Tories assuming office in recognition of "the greatest Labour Minister the country ever had".
The Polls today were slightly favouring Labour but he lefty posters on here have been on the back foot all day defending their party across several areas..all is not going too well for them methinks, there is the acrid smell of panic in the ranks..
So you favour open borders for all, no passports etc?
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - AJP Taylor
Cheap and easy for people to nip around the world 100 years ago was it?!
Ridiculous.
I dont think he would say the same today
So, if I presented evidence that it cost a similar amount - as a percentage of income - for an Indian to move to the UK in 1900, you would change your mind?
You would be advised to learn about the history of immigrant populations in the UK over the last 500 years or so. Whether about the Hugenots in Spitalfields in the 17th Century, or the Eastern European Jewery that fled to the same parts of London following persecution. Interestingly, the same points you make were made at the time.
Irrespective: this is a moral issue. You have no right to prevent people from competing with you in the workforce.
So you favour open borders for all, no passports etc?
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - AJP Taylor
I agree 100%.
As a first step, I would make benefits - of any kind - only eligible to people (immigrant or otherwise) who have paid three years national insurance
A lot of people living in London arent Londoners, thats why they dont mind
The bit I still struggle with, isam, is why you, or me for that matter, should have any say whatsoever on who lives on this island. Really, what you're saying is that - because we had the good fortune to be born on this sceptred isle - that we should get to have a veto on other people coming here.
I don't understand the basis of your morality.
It's better than that, the views of a Kray about who lives in London count for more than yours, incomer
Why would you contrast a white, English criminal with a bright, industrious immigrant?
Isnt that the kind of lazy, stereotyping approach that real fighters of racism fought against 40 years ago, and what people who dont understand Enoch Powells speech criticise him for?
You appear to think a Kray living in London has a more valid opinion than rcs, why?
How would you weight the opinions of the Krays the Cohens and the Khans who have populated the East End, who's opinion is more valid?
I didnt say any such thing.
Why do you keep stuff making up?
I said a lot of people living in London weren't Londoners, thats why they are not bothered by ever changing communities, and why they love diversity. Because their home is somewhere else.
Your stereotypes, the Khans and Cohens, are more likely to be Londoners, and more likely to care about integration than "immigrants" from England who can always go home to the country
I believe there are fundamental rights that cannot be voted away. So, I believe, do you. Would it be acceptable for the government to pass a law denying red headed people the vote? Clearly not.
I regard freedom of labour to be one of the fundamental rights which the government cannot over-ride. You do not.
I strongly support free markets, whether in goods or services, or labour. I have always taken the view that immigration restriction is a species of protectionism. But it is important to understand the bases of people's positions. Your support of freedom of labour is at heart philosophical, and consequently, I assume, would remain unchanged if it could in fact be demonstrated that freedom of labour was injurious to the common good.
You are correct. My view is based on morality.
It is therefore a fundamentally different view to that of tim's, who believes it to be economically desirable.
I would like to see a lot of current universal benefits being replaced with contributory benefits, which would mean that many benefits could only be accessed by those who have a history of national Insurance payments, whether British or Migrant.
As if any Romanian ne'erdowells who wanted aren't already in the country. It's the respectable and desirable would-be immigrants who have been put off by the restrictions on working.
Albania isn't part of the EU, but there an awful lot of Albanians on the building sites of London.
So you favour open borders for all, no passports etc?
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - AJP Taylor
Cheap and easy for people to nip around the world 100 years ago was it?!
Ridiculous.
I dont think he would say the same today
So, if I presented evidence that it cost a similar amount - as a percentage of income - for an Indian to move to the UK in 1900, you would change your mind?
You would be advised to learn about the history of immigrant populations in the UK over the last 500 years or so. Whether about the Hugenots in Spitalfields in the 17th Century, or the Eastern European Jewery that fled to the same parts of London following persecution. Interestingly, the same points you make were made at the time.
Irrespective: this is a moral issue. You have no right to prevent people from competing with you in the workforce.
You quoted someone who I dont believe would say the same today.
Did the Immigration you speak of result in the original population being the minority in major cities oh Historical wise one?
And Forsyth's tweet: "MoS Balls ‘nightmare’ emails most important Westminster story for a while. Shows how tense things are between the two Eds behind the scenes"
Are you feeling squeezed? I expect many Londoners feel so:
Robert Kimbell @RedHotSquirrel Population density: Germany 583 per square mile, France 301, Romania 219, Poland 320, Italy 512, Spain 240, Lithuania 141.....England 1,054!
I have believed that the population density of Holland is greater than that of England. Do you have the number?
We're 51st, with a population density less than one-fiftieth of the most dense.
Even skipping the city states, we're one sixth the level of Malta. Not a place I think of as insanely crowded.
Thanks for the reference. But I specifically said "England" rather than "United Kingdom".
But then you'd probably want to post the equivalent numbers for population density in Bavaria, or Ile de France, to get apples to apples.
England is not, after all, currently a country. However, were it to be one, it would still have a population less dense than Belgium or the Netherlands or Malta or Taiwan or south Korea and provably a few other places that you wouldn't think of as notably crowded.
So you favour open borders for all, no passports etc?
"Until August 1914 a sensible, law-abiding Englishman could pass through life and hardly notice the existence of the state, beyond the post office and the policeman. He could live where he liked and as he liked. He had no official number or identity card. He could travel abroad or leave his country for ever without a passport or any sort of official permission. He could exchange his money for any other currency without restriction or limit. He could buy goods from any country in the world on the same terms as he bought goods at home. For that matter, a foreigner could spend his life in this country without permit and without informing the police." - AJP Taylor
Cheap and easy for people to nip around the world 100 years ago was it?!
Ridiculous.
I dont think he would say the same today
So, if I presented evidence that it cost a similar amount - as a percentage of income - for an Indian to move to the UK in 1900, you would change your mind?
You would be advised to learn about the history of immigrant populations in the UK over the last 500 years or so. Whether about the Hugenots in Spitalfields in the 17th Century, or the Eastern European Jewery that fled to the same parts of London following persecution. Interestingly, the same points you make were made at the time.
Irrespective: this is a moral issue. You have no right to prevent people from competing with you in the workforce.
You quoted someone who I dont believe would say the same today.
Did the Immigration you speak of result in the original population being the minority in major cities oh Historical wise one?
What date would you use for the "original population" of New York or London?
A couple of years before the period of mass immigration in question took place
"The unseen story behind many of the comprehensives getting stunning exam results is how many parents at these schools use tutors,"
The schools didn't improve. The schools got worse. It's the main reason 100,000s of people moved out of or further out of London.
As a result of the schools getting worse half the people remaining are using private tutors. The use of private tutors is behind the improvement in exam results. The huge jump in exam results from the use private tutors shows how bad the schools have become.
and the stats on the Roma are far from exhaustive in either direction.
So if the data on the number of Roma is "far from exhaustive" (i.e. guesswork) then your "data" for the proportion of immigrants claiming benefits must be equally "far from exhaustive" (i.e. guesswork) yes?
And yet if the worse inner city estates were now ruled by youth gangs that have grown so big they prevent people reporting crimes for fear of retaliation then these gangs could commit crimes - up to and including thousands of gang rapes (which are themselves often acts of intimidation or retaliation) - with complete impunity then the official crime stats would be completely bogus wouldn't they?
If these gangs can commit 1000s of gang-rapes on those estates with complete impunity they can commit anything up to that with impunity also.
All that happened is a wall of CCTV was built around high crime areas to keep it caged out of sight along with the people unfortunate enough to live there outside the protection of the law.
George Eaton (New Statesman) has fallen for the 'Tory line': Miliband adviser Torsten Bell copied in Tory MP James Morris, rather than Labour pollster of same name. Cock-up, not conspiracy.
I believe there are fundamental rights that cannot be voted away. So, I believe, do you. Would it be acceptable for the government to pass a law denying red headed people the vote? Clearly not.
I regard freedom of labour to be one of the fundamental rights which the government cannot over-ride. You do not.
I strongly support free markets, whether in goods or services, or labour. I have always taken the view that immigration restriction is a species of protectionism. But it is important to understand the bases of people's positions. Your support of freedom of labour is at heart philosophical, and consequently, I assume, would remain unchanged if it could in fact be demonstrated that freedom of labour was injurious to the common good.
You are correct. My view is based on morality.
It is therefore a fundamentally different view to that of tim's, who believes it to be economically desirable.
I believe there are fundamental rights that cannot be voted away. So, I believe, do you. Would it be acceptable for the government to pass a law denying red headed people the vote? Clearly not.
I regard freedom of labour to be one of the fundamental rights which the government cannot over-ride. You do not.
I strongly support free markets, whether in goods or services, or labour. I have always taken the view that immigration restriction is a species of protectionism. But it is important to understand the bases of people's positions. Your support of freedom of labour is at heart philosophical, and consequently, I assume, would remain unchanged if it could in fact be demonstrated that freedom of labour was injurious to the common good.
You are correct. My view is based on morality.
It is therefore a fundamentally different view to that of tim's, who believes it to be economically desirable.
Does it work the other way as well?
ie if 200,000 rich Americans all of a sudden wanted to live in Goa, it would be immoral of the people living there before to do anything about it?
George Eaton (New Statesman) has fallen for the 'Tory line': Miliband adviser Torsten Bell copied in Tory MP James Morris, rather than Labour pollster of same name. Cock-up, not conspiracy.
Yes, Labour must be delighted that proof of the wholly dysfunctional relationship between leader and shadow chancellor was revealed by mistake.
Dan Hodges, adding to the Gaiety of the nation: "New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to James Morris, Tory MP."
Hodges is briliant on Twitter today, claiming all the Lib Dems in Lab/Con marginals are returning by 2015, taken apart by Rob Ford he resorts to
Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 2h @robfordmancs Rob: a) Why are you so angry about this b) Why are you becoming abusive c) Are you really a university lecturer.
Him and Toby Young, classics of their genre.
I was saying earlier - Hodges main problem is a sheer lack of credibility. He has no contacts in the Labour Party. The other problem is he seemingly has no grasp of odds or maths - hence his bet with Mike at even money.
So if the data on the number of Roma is "far from exhaustive" (i.e. guesswork) then your "data" for the proportion of immigrants claiming benefits must be equally "far from exhaustive" (i.e. guesswork) yes?
Wait, what?
You seriously are arguing that the DWP data on if someone is an immigrant, is as good as whether they are Roma or not?
I'm going to have to say that assertion requires evidence
England is a constituent country of the UK. Saying it is not a country is contrarian.
England does not exist (outwith sports-teams). You need to do a bit of - erm - thinking and research. London is also not a capital: You do understand nuances...?
@BBCWestminHour: And we report on plans for new left wing group in British politics - will @LeftUnityUK make bigger impact than predecessors? @BBCRadio4 10pm
So if the data on the number of Roma is "far from exhaustive" (i.e. guesswork) then your "data" for the proportion of immigrants claiming benefits must be equally "far from exhaustive" (i.e. guesswork) yes?
Wait, what?
You seriously are arguing that the DWP data on if someone is an immigrant, is as good as whether they are Roma or not?
I'm going to have to say that assertion requires evidence
Might get a few decent candidates when it is not the old fogies picking their chums.
RBS book is very interesting by the way , thanks for recommending it and also thanks to Carlotta who first posted on it at the bargain 49p. It does not half show Goodwin was an egomanical nutjob who was promoted way above his level of competence , also politicians don't look great either, looking forward to the rest of it.
So if the data on the number of Roma is "far from exhaustive" (i.e. guesswork) then your "data" for the proportion of immigrants claiming benefits must be equally "far from exhaustive" (i.e. guesswork) yes?
Wait, what?
You seriously are arguing that the DWP data on if someone is an immigrant, is as good as whether they are Roma or not?
I'm going to have to say that assertion requires evidence
I see that not only USA and Britain busy giving help in the Philippines, Israel is also on the job having sent a team of doctors and soldiers trained in Rescue and Trauma.
IDF @IDFSpokesperson 6m #IDFinPhilippines soldiers are exhausted but still waiting to receive the next task to help #TyphoonHaiyan victims pic.twitter.com/L6dp1ER915
Comments
Anyway, seeing as you PB sunday morning philistines are clearly skipping church, here's a sermon for the closet homophobes on fundamental human decency. It's a friend-of-a-friends coming out story, and it's beautiful;
http://whenicameout.tumblr.com/post/4801057652/once-upon-a-time-in-barcelona
The 2015 in-tray
A mighty pile of unfinished business teeters over Britain’s next government
The next prime minister will enter Downing Street with this pile of unfinished business looming over him. Events will force him to confront much of it. And when he does, it could rend his party, particularly if he has a small majority and is thus at the mercy of troublesome backbenchers. Labour is just as divided over Europe, press regulation, airports and austerity as the Conservatives are—perhaps more so. For that reason, the large to-do list may determine who runs Britain. If the result of the election is close, even the most tribal leader may see safety (and political stability) in numbers, and plump for another coalition.
And this assumes Scotland does not vote for Independence.....
Or perhaps alleged sharp practice over the selection of MPs is newsworthy?
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_endorsements_in_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2010
This is like the expenses scandal: voters assume they are all at it. Unite, Progress, A-listers, all-women shortlists, carpetbaggers, and the rest. Who had the strongest Geordie accent: Peter Mandelson or David Miliband?
Devestating conclusion from tims source
"Personally, I should imagine the true number is a lot lower, but that's just an opinion, with only my feeling ... to back it up."
The structure of Conservative selections obviously favour people applying for many seats at the same time. In the last month, we have seen many names recurring in the shortlists and longlists of different seats. So a) are they so good? b) the rest is quite weak? c) both of previous points d) is there some CCHQ pressure to push for those people?
We do know that between Leicester, Rotherham and Sheffield alone that there are about 15000 East European Roma. How out of line are these with other communities?
Why are the Tories struggling of late? I suggested last night it was down to John Major. Popular opinion says its the energy price freeze. But that was back in September. I think Ed Miliband provided Cameron with some bait when he criticised the energy companies, it gave Cameron the room to set out his stall as the pro-business PM. He swallowed the bait and it's harming him. He looks more and more like a big business stooge.
England is not, after all, currently a country. However, were it to be one, it would still have a population less dense than Belgium or the Netherlands or Malta or Taiwan or south Korea and provably a few other places that you wouldn't think of as notably crowded.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/we-believe-in-david-cameron-he-is-god-pm-mobbed-by-crowds-on-visit-to-sri-lanka--but-can-he-help-8942740.html
I understand that there is more to the immigration argument than stats can possibly show. So do most people who arent welded to a political ideology.
You know Im right, hence the lies x
@SamCoatesTimes: Unite on Falkirk: "Worth noting here that the Labour leadership was well aware of Unite's political strategy in Falkirk and approved of it"
Or perhaps alleged sharp practice over the selection of MPs is newsworthy?
Do you honestly think the general public notices such things ? So why has Labour's lead , if anything, has firmed up since you have been obsessed about it ?
There are plenty of examples of violence that wouldnt have taken place had Powell been listened to.
How long have you got?
Enoch Powell was one of v few people to accurately forecast immigration numbers in English political history. but truth doesnt come into it with your distortions
How delicious..... tim, how do you do it? Call out the blues for incompetent twits....
Chris Deerin@chrisdeerin3m
New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to Mott the Hoople, band
Chris Deerin@chrisdeerin8m
New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to Anne Maurice, House Doctor
Dan Hodges@DPJHodges20m
New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to James Morris, Tory MP.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/jul/08/ed-miliband-labour-politics
New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to Anne Maurice, House Doctor
Dan Hodges@DPJHodges20m
New theory on Ed B e-mail. Was supposed to have been sent to James Morris, EM pollster. Inadvertently sent to James Morris, Tory MP.
----------------------------
Looks like both are being fed "stories" by CCHQ.
This is why the conservative trust immigration as fallen back,no party is trusted on immigration except for ukip.
I don't understand the basis of your morality.
Or are you saying no one has the right to ever say that?
But you're absolutely right on your second point. I don't have any right to dictate to other people whether they are allowed to buy the house next door or compete with me in the labour market.
I regard freedom of labour to be one of the fundamental rights which the government cannot over-ride. You do not.
Isnt that the kind of lazy, stereotyping approach that real fighters of racism fought against 40 years ago, and what people who dont understand Enoch Powells speech criticise him for?
I am a LibDem, and pro-Europe. I do not want to stop the free movement of people, I just want there to be proper planning for the influx (not least because I am involved with planning care for the population, and accurate figures are required), and for migrants not to be a burden on the tax-payer. I would like the UK to copy some of the restrictions that other EU countries apply for benefits, so that they are linked to a history of contributions.
In other words: Romanian doctors are fine, Romanian Big Issue sellers are not.
1. He (or at least his office) knew about and actively connived with Unite's recruitment drive. He agreed a deal whereby the applications could be processed despite concerns being raised by Labour's head of compliance. Any yet when it was publicly reported he expressed surprise, shock and horror at "machine politics". That makes him a hypocrite
2. He had a deal with Unite, but as soon as it was in his interests to turn them over he did. As he did with Cameron over Syria and on other occasions. That kind of self-interested ruthlessness may make him a good politician, but it makes him untrustworthy.
This makes it a character question. I don't want an untrustworthy hypocrite as PM, almost regardless of their policies. But I fully acknowledge that most people have even less interest in process stories than I do, so the impact on national votes will be minimal
Cheap and easy for people to nip around the world 100 years ago was it?!
Ridiculous.
I dont think he would say the same today
Uncontrolled immigration is not compatible with the long term survival of a welfare state.
The Scots think that Scotland is a country
You would be advised to learn about the history of immigrant populations in the UK over the last 500 years or so. Whether about the Hugenots in Spitalfields in the 17th Century, or the Eastern European Jewery that fled to the same parts of London following persecution. Interestingly, the same points you make were made at the time.
Irrespective: this is a moral issue. You have no right to prevent people from competing with you in the workforce.
As a first step, I would make benefits - of any kind - only eligible to people (immigrant or otherwise) who have paid three years national insurance
I didnt say any such thing.
Why do you keep stuff making up?
I said a lot of people living in London weren't Londoners, thats why they are not bothered by ever changing communities, and why they love diversity. Because their home is somewhere else.
Your stereotypes, the Khans and Cohens, are more likely to be Londoners, and more likely to care about integration than "immigrants" from England who can always go home to the country
It is therefore a fundamentally different view to that of tim's, who believes it to be economically desirable.
Albania isn't part of the EU, but there an awful lot of Albanians on the building sites of London.
Faisal Islam:
Homes for residents not overseas investors.. Put residents first not property speculators" : Labour leaflet pic.twitter.com/ypLgFxPtpl
.. That's rather interesting shift in tone that Labour, at least in W London are attacking property development, or the type of dev
Did the Immigration you speak of result in the original population being the minority in major cities oh Historical wise one?
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/11/what-the-ed-balls-is-a-nightmare-emails-tell-us/
And Forsyth's tweet: "MoS Balls ‘nightmare’ emails most important Westminster story for a while. Shows how tense things are between the two Eds behind the scenes"
"The unseen story behind many of the comprehensives getting stunning exam results is how many parents at these schools use tutors,"
The schools didn't improve. The schools got worse. It's the main reason 100,000s of people moved out of or further out of London.
As a result of the schools getting worse half the people remaining are using private tutors. The use of private tutors is behind the improvement in exam results. The huge jump in exam results from the use private tutors shows how bad the schools have become.
And yet So if the data on the number of Roma is "far from exhaustive" (i.e. guesswork) then your "data" for the proportion of immigrants claiming benefits must be equally "far from exhaustive" (i.e. guesswork) yes?
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/boys-quizzed-over-500-rapes-a-year-by-gangs-8335165.html
And yet if the worse inner city estates were now ruled by youth gangs that have grown so big they prevent people reporting crimes for fear of retaliation then these gangs could commit crimes - up to and including thousands of gang rapes (which are themselves often acts of intimidation or retaliation) - with complete impunity then the official crime stats would be completely bogus wouldn't they?
If these gangs can commit 1000s of gang-rapes on those estates with complete impunity they can commit anything up to that with impunity also.
All that happened is a wall of CCTV was built around high crime areas to keep it caged out of sight along with the people unfortunate enough to live there outside the protection of the law.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-man-the-myth-in-public-jfk-was-the-emblem-of-a-shining-new-age-in-private-he-was-a-drugtaking-philanderer-with-mob-links-8942600.html
Can we only have two threads per day? [Afternoon Junior!]
Squillions of copy-n-pastes from Wee-Timmy and others will not... be...ee ....
:yawn:
Time for quality over quantity. I will behave myself if you do so....
Does it work the other way as well?
ie if 200,000 rich Americans all of a sudden wanted to live in Goa, it would be immoral of the people living there before to do anything about it?
You seriously are arguing that the DWP data on if someone is an immigrant, is as good as whether they are Roma or not?
I'm going to have to say that assertion requires evidence
England is a constituent country of the UK. Saying it is not a country is contrarian.
@JacksonMSP: Biggest extension of democratisation by @ScotTories of any political party in Scotland I Press Release I http://t.co/49O96Z9ikU #Holyrood
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/9384746.Labour_hold_on_easily_to_Great_Horton_ward/
Was his recent drug habit a passing phases or something that was kept quiet for quite a little time?
RBS book is very interesting by the way , thanks for recommending it and also thanks to Carlotta who first posted on it at the bargain 49p. It does not half show Goodwin was an egomanical nutjob who was promoted way above his level of competence , also politicians don't look great either, looking forward to the rest of it.
IDF @IDFSpokesperson 6m
#IDFinPhilippines soldiers are exhausted but still waiting to receive the next task to help #TyphoonHaiyan victims pic.twitter.com/L6dp1ER915
Looks like we're about to find out if the new super-duper hi-tech diesel generator and windmill based national grid is a good idea or not.