I guess there's a fairly reasonable argument for people like musicians, who (hopefully) bring pleasure to a whole bunch of people, to travel to their fans. Rather than staying in one place and encouraging all their fans to travel from around the world...After all music is one of the things that we can enjoy that doesn't have a massive carbon footprint.
This particular MP is anyway definitely a colossal knob.
Looks like they not only shared one of the all time great final wicket partnerships.
From Bet365 Jack Leach has revealed he lent his box to Ben Stokes as he couldn't find his before coming out to bat. At the end of day 3, Stokes said: "This is going to sound weird, but I need to keep using your box." He then scored a match-winning 135 and is going to use it at Old Trafford.
A fat load of codswallop when the opposition, including the Speaker, have been doing whatever it takes all year. When conventions have been disregarded all year.
Your side are shrieking because now the shoe is in the other foot.
Final Friday of August is probably a very good day for chains to complete. Oddly enough I know someone who's chain has completed today but I never thought about that as out of the ordinary until just now.
Has anyone picked up that in Shetland last night BOTH Labour and the Tories lost their deposits? Indeed they got such a hammering that they wouldn't have saved one adding their votes together.
That must be pretty rare.
But it does feel that the people of Shetland may be speaking for the country on how they view the Westminster performance of the 'big two'
SNP still below the 37% they got in Orkney and Shetland in 2015
It's a tedious game, but how did the SCon candidate's performance in Shetland last night compare to O&S in 2015, or indeed 2017?
This was a Tory seat (although the Libs had held it pre-war) until the late Jo Grimond won it in 1950, the only Liberal gain from anyone anywhere, in a three way fight until the Orpington by-election in 1962.
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls.
Once again he and his fellow Tory cultists have shown that democracy does not matter and the only thing that does matter is beating Jeremy Corbyn.
There is no majority in any poll for Remain or any Brexit Option.
Most Remainers back Revoke, most Leavers now back No Deal and the only compromise on the table, the Withdrawal Agreement, was rejected by MPs 3 times.
So tough
Tough what? You can have your view, but don’t pretend its the will of the people because it just isn’t.
The people chose to leave, that is the will of the people.
Want to change that? Stand at the next election on an alternative platform, maybe seeking a referendum to rejoin. Until then the will of the people stands.
If an MP defies the whip on a VoNC and an election is called the next day. How easy will it be for the constituency to find a sutable replacement candidate in time?
Would it be realistic for the deselected MP to run as an independent?
I am regularly getting calls at work from withheld numbers that immediately hang up. I've come to the conclusion that they are trying to get a recording of my voice.
I do not give my name when answering such calls.
Unless you have reason to think otherwise it's probably nothing more sinister than the scammers optimising their use of labour. i.e. They make a huge numbers of calls, and when you pick up the call immediately drops because the scammer doesn't have a scam operator ready to speak to you.
*edit*
I see that Philip_Thompson made the same point before me.
No secretary to answer calls? Have they axed the tea trolley as well? Are partners' extensions open to outside calls with no whitelisting of call sources? No mandatory security courses? No internal cybercrime team? (btw I noticed on linkedin the other day that Barclays has a Head of Financial Crime which must be amongst the best job titles ever.)
A clear majority does not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit.
That is damning.
No it isn't as there was no alternative offered and Boris is is still preferred to Corbyn which is the main thing
What part of ‘a majority of voters do not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit’ do you not understand?
What part of 'as long as Boris leads Corbyn he wins the next general election and delivers Brexit' do you not understand?
Winning the next GE is not the same thing as representing a majority of voters.
No party since WW2 has got over 50% of the vote in the UK
And?
And no party has therefore represented the majority of voters, however 52% of voters voted Leave in 2016 and Boris will deliver their verdict
52% of voters did not vote for no deal.
You are either being stupid or purposely mischievous.
My point is that Boris’s version of Brexit is not the will of the people. This is a FACT.
52% voted Leave, diehard Remainers rejected a compromise Deal and the Withdrawal Agreement so No Deal it will have to be unless the EU agrees a technical alternative to the backstop
Has anyone picked up that in Shetland last night BOTH Labour and the Tories lost their deposits? Indeed they got such a hammering that they wouldn't have saved one adding their votes together.
That must be pretty rare.
But it does feel that the people of Shetland may be speaking for the country on how they view the Westminster performance of the 'big two'
SNP still below the 37% they got in Orkney and Shetland in 2015
It's a tedious game, but how did the SCon candidate's performance in Shetland last night compare to O&S in 2015, or indeed 2017?
A clear majority does not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit.
That is damning.
No it isn't as there was no alternative offered and Boris is is still preferred to Corbyn which is the main thing
What part of ‘a majority of voters do not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit’ do you not understand?
What part of 'as long as Boris leads Corbyn he wins the next general election and delivers Brexit' do you not understand?
Winning the next GE is not the same thing as representing a majority of voters.
No party since WW2 has got over 50% of the vote in the UK
And?
And no party has therefore represented the majority of voters, however 52% of voters voted Leave in 2016 and Boris will deliver their verdict
52% of voters did not vote for no deal.
You are either being stupid or purposely mischievous.
My point is that Boris’s version of Brexit is not the will of the people. This is a FACT.
52% voted Leave, diehard Remainers rejected a compromise Deal and the Withdrawal Agreement so No Deal it will have to be unless the EU agrees a technical alternative to the backstop
That’s fine but don’t pretend its the will of the people. It is unbecoming.
The interesting tweet from Ms Adler is that Germany is looking for a deal on the backstop.
But another one notes that we are now 9 days in to the 30 day period which Merkel gave Johnson to come up with a replacement for the backstop and so far the U.K. has put forward ...er...nothing.
A clear majority does not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit.
That is damning.
No it isn't as there was no alternative offered and Boris is is still preferred to Corbyn which is the main thing
What part of ‘a majority of voters do not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit’ do you not understand?
What part of 'as long as Boris leads Corbyn he wins the next general election and delivers Brexit' do you not understand?
Winning the next GE is not the same thing as representing a majority of voters.
No party since WW2 has got over 50% of the vote in the UK
And?
And no party has therefore represented the majority of voters, however 52% of voters voted Leave in 2016 and Boris will deliver their verdict
52% of voters did not vote for no deal.
You are either being stupid or purposely mischievous.
My point is that Boris’s version of Brexit is not the will of the people. This is a FACT.
52% voted Leave, diehard Remainers rejected a compromise Deal and the Withdrawal Agreement so No Deal it will have to be unless the EU agrees a technical alternative to the backstop
Do you deliberately miss out that the ERG rejected a compromise Deal too ! Are they diehard Remainers ?
I guess there's a fairly reasonable argument for people like musicians, who (hopefully) bring pleasure to a whole bunch of people, to travel to their fans. Rather than staying in one place and encouraging all their fans to travel from around the world...After all music is one of the things that we can enjoy that doesn't have a massive carbon footprint.
This particular MP is anyway definitely a colossal knob.
This MP is a colossal knob but that doesn't stop the people he wrote to from being colossal knobs too. It takes one to know one sometimes.
People who intend to use air travel should maybe STFU about others doing the same. There's nothing pretty about a hypocrite.
The solution to climate change isn't to eliminate air travel [while still travelling by air yourself].
If an MP defies the whip on a VoNC and an election is called the next day. How easy will it be for the constituency to find a sutable replacement candidate in time?
Would it be realistic for the deselected MP to run as an independent?
I am sure Grieve would run as a Traditional Conservative. And the opposition probably would not do too much work. Grieve could even win.
A fat load of codswallop when the opposition, including the Speaker, have been doing whatever it takes all year. When conventions have been disregarded all year.
Your side are shrieking because now the shoe is in the other foot.
Indeed
When the speaker decided to part with convention the rules went out the window.
A fat load of codswallop when the opposition, including the Speaker, have been doing whatever it takes all year. When conventions have been disregarded all year.
Your side are shrieking because now the shoe is in the other foot.
Indeed
When the speaker decided to part with convention the rules went out the window.
Whats sauce for the goose etc.
One could argue that the speaker had the consent of the commons and Boris does not.
Has anyone picked up that in Shetland last night BOTH Labour and the Tories lost their deposits? Indeed they got such a hammering that they wouldn't have saved one adding their votes together.
That must be pretty rare.
But it does feel that the people of Shetland may be speaking for the country on how they view the Westminster performance of the 'big two'
SNP still below the 37% they got in Orkney and Shetland in 2015
It's a tedious game, but how did the SCon candidate's performance in Shetland last night compare to O&S in 2015, or indeed 2017?
More than the SCons got in Shetland in 2011
And more than double what the SCons got in Shetland in 2019.
We could describe last night as the final point of the downward trajectory of the arc of the Ruth Davidson years, or the BJ effect...
John Major joining Gina Miller to fight a case to block Boris proroguing Parliament, former Labour MP for Grimsby Austin Mitchell backing Boris proroguing Parliament today, maybe a bit of a realignment going on
They are picking the wrong target, Gina Miller is doing so for the second time. The aim of those against this government should be to use next week to establish, without going to law and by clear parliamentary procedures, the government and leader they do want instead of the one they don't. If they have the numbers and the affirmative policy it can be done. If they don't have the numbers or don't have a positive policy, tough, that's politics.
Alternatively they could encourage Labour to revisit TMs deal, with which they have no serious dispute.
They play hardball and object when others do the same. It is we poor moderates who have no-one speaking for them.
Boris is trying for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical solution instead
And he’s not going to get that by November.
Whyever not?
Because any such solution will probably be unproven and will require testing in a live environment so until such proof of viability is achieved the back stop will have to remain
A clear majority does not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit.
That is damning.
No it isn't as there was no alternative offered and Boris is is still preferred to Corbyn which is the main thing
What part of ‘a majority of voters do not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit’ do you not understand?
What part of 'as long as Boris leads Corbyn he wins the next general election and delivers Brexit' do you not understand?
Winning the next GE is not the same thing as representing a majority of voters.
No party since WW2 has got over 50% of the vote in the UK
And?
And no party has therefore represented the majority of voters, however 52% of voters voted Leave in 2016 and Boris will deliver their verdict
52% of voters did not vote for no deal.
You are either being stupid or purposely mischievous.
My point is that Boris’s version of Brexit is not the will of the people. This is a FACT.
52% voted Leave, diehard Remainers rejected a compromise Deal and the Withdrawal Agreement so No Deal it will have to be unless the EU agrees a technical alternative to the backstop
Do you deliberately miss out that the ERG rejected a compromise Deal too ! Are they diehard Remainers ?
They still voted for Brexit just they preferred No Deal, they won the referendum after all.
Moderate Leavers voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, diehard Remainers could have accepted that compromise, they refused, so the Leaver hardliners likely won
The interesting tweet from Ms Adler is that Germany is looking for a deal on the backstop.
But another one notes that we are now 9 days in to the 30 day period which Merkel gave Johnson to come up with a replacement for the backstop and so far the U.K. has put forward ...er...nothing.
It's quite surprising the amount of spin that the government and the Borismen put into that at the time, considering it was abandoned in a trice and Cummings decided instead to go with No Deal.
Has anyone picked up that in Shetland last night BOTH Labour and the Tories lost their deposits? Indeed they got such a hammering that they wouldn't have saved one adding their votes together.
That must be pretty rare.
But it does feel that the people of Shetland may be speaking for the country on how they view the Westminster performance of the 'big two'
SNP still below the 37% they got in Orkney and Shetland in 2015
It's a tedious game, but how did the SCon candidate's performance in Shetland last night compare to O&S in 2015, or indeed 2017?
This was a Tory seat (although the Libs had held it pre-war) until the late Jo Grimond won it in 1950, the only Liberal gain from anyone anywhere, in a three way fight until the Orpington by-election in 1962.
My first reaction was that "Orpington was never a 3-way fight" but I see that in 1959 the Labour party was second with 22%.
When I grew up there in the 70s-mid80s, there were very very few people who openly supported Labour. It was among the safest Tory seats.
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls.
Once again he and his fellow Tory cultists have shown that democracy does not matter and the only thing that does matter is beating Jeremy Corbyn.
The interesting tweet from Ms Adler is that Germany is looking for a deal on the backstop.
But another one notes that we are now 9 days in to the 30 day period which Merkel gave Johnson to come up with a replacement for the backstop and so far the U.K. has put forward ...er...nothing.
That is not fair....they have agreed to meet twice a week! Apparently this is evidence that serious negotiations are taking place......
A clear majority does not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit.
That is damning.
No it isn't as there was no alternative offered and Boris is is still preferred to Corbyn which is the main thing
What part of ‘a majority of voters do not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit’ do you not understand?
What part of 'as long as Boris leads Corbyn he wins the next general election and delivers Brexit' do you not understand?
Winning the next GE is not the same thing as representing a majority of voters.
No party since WW2 has got over 50% of the vote in the UK
Labour got nearest in 1951, and probably did in Mainland UK..... i.e discounting the N Ireland seats, although in several of those the Cons/UU's were unopposed.
A clear majority does not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit.
That is damning.
No it isn't as there was no alternative offered and Boris is is still preferred to Corbyn which is the main thing
What part of ‘a majority of voters do not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit’ do you not understand?
What part of 'as long as Boris leads Corbyn he wins the next general election and delivers Brexit' do you not understand?
Winning the next GE is not the same thing as representing a majority of voters.
No party since WW2 has got over 50% of the vote in the UK
And?
And no party has therefore represented the majority of voters, however 52% of voters voted Leave in 2016 and Boris will deliver their verdict
52% of voters did not vote for no deal.
You are either being stupid or purposely mischievous.
My point is that Boris’s version of Brexit is not the will of the people. This is a FACT.
52% voted Leave, diehard Remainers rejected a compromise Deal and the Withdrawal Agreement so No Deal it will have to be unless the EU agrees a technical alternative to the backstop
Do you deliberately miss out that the ERG rejected a compromise Deal too ! Are they diehard Remainers ?
They still voted for Brexit just they preferred No Deal, they won the referendum after all.
Moderate Leavers voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, diehard Remainers could have accepted that compromise, they refused, so the hardliners likely won
That’s fine, but don’t pretend its the will of the people.
Has anyone picked up that in Shetland last night BOTH Labour and the Tories lost their deposits? Indeed they got such a hammering that they wouldn't have saved one adding their votes together.
That must be pretty rare.
But it does feel that the people of Shetland may be speaking for the country on how they view the Westminster performance of the 'big two'
SNP still below the 37% they got in Orkney and Shetland in 2015
It's a tedious game, but how did the SCon candidate's performance in Shetland last night compare to O&S in 2015, or indeed 2017?
More than the SCons got in Shetland in 2011
And more than double what the SCons got in Shetland in 2019.
We could describe last night as the final point of the downward trajectory of the arc of the Ruth Davidson years, or the BJ effect...
There was a further swing from SLab to SCon last night with the SNP still below its 2015 voteshare
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls.
Once again he and his fellow Tory cultists have shown that democracy does not matter and the only thing that does matter is beating Jeremy Corbyn.
There is no majority in any poll for Remain or any Brexit Option.
Most Remainers back Revoke, most Leavers now back No Deal and the only compromise on the table, the Withdrawal Agreement, was rejected by MPs 3 times.
So tough
We arent going to no deal, so indeed it is tough on leavers.
Next GE - Watford (Con Maj 2,092, Richard Harrington MP)
Con 1/3 LD 7/2 Lab 6/1
(Shadsy)
Thanks for that. Both the Labour and LibDem odds look very attractive to me. I've maxed out on Labour (which is less reckless than it sounds, given that the max they'd allow me was a fiver).
A clear majority does not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit.
That is damning.
No it isn't as there was no alternative offered and Boris is is still preferred to Corbyn which is the main thing
What part of ‘a majority of voters do not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit’ do you not understand?
What part of 'as long as Boris leads Corbyn he wins the next general election and delivers Brexit' do you not understand?
Winning the next GE is not the same thing as representing a majority of voters.
No party since WW2 has got over 50% of the vote in the UK
Labour got nearest in 1951, and probably did in Mainland UK..... i.e discounting the N Ireland seats, although in several of those the Cons/UU's were unopposed.
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls.
Once again he and his fellow Tory cultists have shown that democracy does not matter and the only thing that does matter is beating Jeremy Corbyn.
There is no majority in any poll for Remain or any Brexit Option.
Most Remainers back Revoke, most Leavers now back No Deal and the only compromise on the table, the Withdrawal Agreement, was rejected by MPs 3 times.
So tough
We arent going to no deal, so indeed it is tough on leavers.
We are if necessary to get Brexit, Boris and Cummings will ensure that
Has anyone picked up that in Shetland last night BOTH Labour and the Tories lost their deposits? Indeed they got such a hammering that they wouldn't have saved one adding their votes together.
That must be pretty rare.
But it does feel that the people of Shetland may be speaking for the country on how they view the Westminster performance of the 'big two'
SNP still below the 37% they got in Orkney and Shetland in 2015
It's a tedious game, but how did the SCon candidate's performance in Shetland last night compare to O&S in 2015, or indeed 2017?
More than the SCons got in Shetland in 2011
And more than double what the SCons got in Shetland in 2019.
We could describe last night as the final point of the downward trajectory of the arc of the Ruth Davidson years, or the BJ effect...
There was a further swing from SLab to SCon last night with the SNP still below its 2015 voteshare
It’s like trying to debate religion with a member of Islamic State.
A fat load of codswallop when the opposition, including the Speaker, have been doing whatever it takes all year. When conventions have been disregarded all year.
Your side are shrieking because now the shoe is in the other foot.
Indeed
When the speaker decided to part with convention the rules went out the window.
Whats sauce for the goose etc.
One could argue that the speaker had the consent of the commons and Boris does not.
One could argue BoJo is within his rights to prorogue Parlt.
Or one could equally say theyve all lost a sense of perspective and stupid attemps to game the system just make things worse.
A fat load of codswallop when the opposition, including the Speaker, have been doing whatever it takes all year. When conventions have been disregarded all year.
Your side are shrieking because now the shoe is in the other foot.
Indeed
When the speaker decided to part with convention the rules went out the window.
Whats sauce for the goose etc.
One could argue that the speaker had the consent of the commons and Boris does not.
It's like some people are just finding out the extent of the PM's power.
A fat load of codswallop when the opposition, including the Speaker, have been doing whatever it takes all year. When conventions have been disregarded all year.
Your side are shrieking because now the shoe is in the other foot.
Indeed
When the speaker decided to part with convention the rules went out the window.
Whats sauce for the goose etc.
One could argue that the speaker had the consent of the commons and Boris does not.
Sure, if the Commons responds by No Confidencing Johnson, one can argue that.
Obviously by extension, if they decide not to, then one can't.
A clear majority does not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit.
That is damning.
No it isn't as there was no alternative offered and Boris is is still preferred to Corbyn which is the main thing
What part of ‘a majority of voters do not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit’ do you not understand?
What part of 'as long as Boris leads Corbyn he wins the next general election and delivers Brexit' do you not understand?
Winning the next GE is not the same thing as representing a majority of voters.
No party since WW2 has got over 50% of the vote in the UK
And?
And no party has therefore represented the majority of voters, however 52% of voters voted Leave in 2016 and Boris will deliver their verdict
52% of voters did not vote for no deal.
You are either being stupid or purposely mischievous.
My point is that Boris’s version of Brexit is not the will of the people. This is a FACT.
52% voted Leave, diehard Remainers rejected a compromise Deal and the Withdrawal Agreement so No Deal it will have to be unless the EU agrees a technical alternative to the backstop
Do you deliberately miss out that the ERG rejected a compromise Deal too ! Are they diehard Remainers ?
They still voted for Brexit just they preferred No Deal, they won the referendum after all.
Moderate Leavers voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, diehard Remainers could have accepted that compromise, they refused, so the hardliners likely won
That’s fine, but don’t pretend its the will of the people.
A clear majority does not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit.
That is damning.
No it isn't as there was no alternative offered and Boris is is still preferred to Corbyn which is the main thing
What part of ‘a majority of voters do not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit’ do you not understand?
What part of 'as long as Boris leads Corbyn he wins the next general election and delivers Brexit' do you not understand?
Winning the next GE is not the same thing as representing a majority of voters.
No party since WW2 has got over 50% of the vote in the UK
And?
And no party has therefore represented the majority of voters, however 52% of voters voted Leave in 2016 and Boris will deliver their verdict
52% of voters did not vote for no deal.
You are either being stupid or purposely mischievous.
My point is that Boris’s version of Brexit is not the will of the people. This is a FACT.
52% voted Leave, diehard Remainers rejected a compromise Deal and the Withdrawal Agreement so No Deal it will have to be unless the EU agrees a technical alternative to the backstop
Do you deliberately miss out that the ERG rejected a compromise Deal too ! Are they diehard Remainers ?
They still voted for Brexit just they preferred No Deal, they won the referendum after all.
Moderate Leavers voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, diehard Remainers could have accepted that compromise, they refused, so the hardliners likely won
That’s fine, but don’t pretend its the will of the people.
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls
Was it Mao or Stalin that said "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth"?
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls.
Once again he and his fellow Tory cultists have shown that democracy does not matter and the only thing that does matter is beating Jeremy Corbyn.
There is no majority in any poll for Remain or any Brexit Option.
Most Remainers back Revoke, most Leavers now back No Deal and the only compromise on the table, the Withdrawal Agreement, was rejected by MPs 3 times.
So tough
We arent going to no deal, so indeed it is tough on leavers.
I'm increasingly of the view that we are not going to leave at all. Johnson is going to crash and burn and he will take Brexit down with him.
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls
Was it Mao or Stalin that said "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth"?
Maybe that explains the Brexiteer strategy?
@HYUFD is certainly apt in repeating lies and misleading statements ad nauseam.
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls
Was it Mao or Stalin that said "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth"?
Maybe that explains the Brexiteer strategy?
@HYUFD is certainly apt in repeating lies and misleading statements ad nauseam.
so with such an unpopular PM why wouldnt you VonC asap ?
Well, it's a bit like DRS. You must use it wisely, otherwise you haven't got access to it when you need it again later.
Except DRS has a cap on uses. Sometimes the cap is 1 per innings, sometimes it is 2 per innings and when it is 2 unsurprisingly the first use often can be more speculative.
What cap is there on VONC? Because Thatcher won on the 6th one - and nobody really remembers the first five.
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls
Was it Mao or Stalin that said "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth"?
Maybe that explains the Brexiteer strategy?
@HYUFD is certainly apt in repeating lies and misleading statements ad nauseam.
I did a bit of Googling and found this quote by Goebbels (1941)
"The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous"
It is almost like he could peer 78 years into the future and see Boris
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls
Was it Mao or Stalin that said "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth"?
Maybe that explains the Brexiteer strategy?
@HYUFD is certainly apt in repeating lies and misleading statements ad nauseam.
HYUFD is Squealer from Animal Farm
if you cant cope with contrary opinions why do you come on a politcal chatroom ?
A bit like how given the benefits that democracy (and sovereignty) give the UK we shouldn't compromise even if there is a limited amount of short term pain.
And what exactly are those increased democratic (and sovereign) benefits? Please reference your answer to any supposed deficits now.
The EU27 recognise that memberhsip of the SM provides economic benefits that mean that the departure of a member (who will incur far greater economic damage than the EU by its departure) will not drive them to compromise its integrity.
That is completely the reverse to the UK, who is guaranteeing economic damage for some spurious notional soverignty benefit, that no-one on the leave side has outlined in any detail.
The benefits are that when our politicians f**k up and do something we're not happy with then we can vote them out and elect politicians who will change course.
Brexit is a specific examplehonoured their manifesto resulted in this.
At the next election if you're not happy with anything this government is doing, including Brexit even, you can seek to elect a new government with a new promise to change course yet again. That is the benefit of democracy.
As far as I know we have had elections for quite a few years in the UK.
Indeed, including elections to the European Parliament to change EU laws that we are subject to yes?
The European Parliament does not make law, it ratifies or rejects proposed laws.
Do you believe judges should be elected?
The EP is a legislature of course it makes the law which is why it is elected.
No I don't believe the judiciary should be elected, but I do believe the legislature should be elected. I also believe the way the Commission is chosen is undemocratic and should be more closely linked to elections like our executive is but that's a completely separate matter to the backstop.
So you do not believe that all those who make the law should be elected. Neither you nor I have any say whatsoever in, for example, the selection of the members of the Enlarged Board of Appeal of the European Patent Office (a non-EU body) who can decide on what can and cannot be patented in the UK, whatever the UK government might think.
The European Parliament ratifies and rejects proposed laws. It cannot make them.
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls
Was it Mao or Stalin that said "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth"?
Maybe that explains the Brexiteer strategy?
@HYUFD is certainly apt in repeating lies and misleading statements ad nauseam.
I did a bit of Googling and found this quote by Goebbels (1941)
"The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous"
It is almost like he could peer 78 years into the future and see Boris
I thought you were against all this WW2 retrospective harping on ?
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls
Was it Mao or Stalin that said "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth"?
Maybe that explains the Brexiteer strategy?
@HYUFD is certainly apt in repeating lies and misleading statements ad nauseam.
HYUFD is Squealer from Animal Farm
if you cant cope with contrary opinions why do you come on a politcal chatroom ?
John Major joining Gina Miller to fight a case to block Boris proroguing Parliament, former Labour MP for Grimsby Austin Mitchell backing Boris proroguing Parliament today, maybe a bit of a realignment going on
They are picking the wrong target, Gina Miller is doing so for the second time. The aim of those against this government should be to use next week to establish, without going to law and by clear parliamentary procedures, the government and leader they do want instead of the one they don't. If they have the numbers and the affirmative policy it can be done. If they don't have the numbers or don't have a positive policy, tough, that's politics.
Alternatively they could encourage Labour to revisit TMs deal, with which they have no serious dispute.
They play hardball and object when others do the same. It is we poor moderates who have no-one speaking for them.
Boris is trying for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical solution instead
And he’s not going to get that by November.
Whyever not?
Because any such solution will probably be unproven and will require testing in a live environment so until such proof of viability is achieved the back stop will have to remain
Unless the EU actually wants a Brexit recession, they are going to have to take a leap of faith on some creative proposals.....
Has anyone picked up that in Shetland last night BOTH Labour and the Tories lost their deposits? Indeed they got such a hammering that they wouldn't have saved one adding their votes together.
That must be pretty rare.
But it does feel that the people of Shetland may be speaking for the country on how they view the Westminster performance of the 'big two'
SNP still below the 37% they got in Orkney and Shetland in 2015
It's a tedious game, but how did the SCon candidate's performance in Shetland last night compare to O&S in 2015, or indeed 2017?
More than the SCons got in Shetland in 2011
And more than double what the SCons got in Shetland in 2019.
We could describe last night as the final point of the downward trajectory of the arc of the Ruth Davidson years, or the BJ effect...
There was a further swing from SLab to SCon last night with the SNP still below its 2015 voteshare
It's a fool who extrapolates the results of a byelection in a seat with a very large majority on to the rest of the electorate.
So you do not believe that all those who make the law should be elected. Neither you nor I have any say whatsoever in, for example, the selection of the members of the Enlarged Board of Appeal of the European Patent Office (a non-EU body) who can decide on what can and cannot be patented in the UK, whatever the UK government might think.
The European Parliament ratifies and rejects proposed laws. It cannot make them.
No I do believe that all those who make the law should be elected.
The EP is a legislature. It ratifies, rejects and I believe amends proposed laws. It absolutely should be elected.
Quangos should be kept to a minimum but don't make the law they operate within the confines of the laws the legislature has passed and can be overriden or even abolished by a change of the law if the electorate so demand. If the UK government chooses to leave the Enlarged Board of Appeal of the European Patent Office then it should have the right to do so.
The judiciary implements and interprets the laws the legislature has passed but if a subsequent Parliament passes a law overriding the judiciaries decision then judiciary should and must let the subsequent law take precedence.
Yes, Cummings has humiliated The Saj utterly. I don't doubt that even Boris would be axed if he failed to obey orders.
The inevitable falling-out between Boris and Cummings is going to be one of the most spectacular political entertainment moments of the next few months.
Tory vote down just 0.1% in Shetland last night compared to Yougov having it down 8% nationally on 2017, perhaps Yougov have underestimated the Tories under Boris this time?
As I said last night, we need to look again at our constitution after this mess, because in a modern democracy it can’t be right that a PM with no clear Commons Majority commands all of the power of the PM. But there is too much hyperbole about him acting like a dictator, which is clearly nonsense, and this needs to stop in favour of a rational debate.
For example, please can people stop raising the ludicrous idea that any PM could do this indefinitely? How would the estimates get passed? How would local Gvt get its grants? How would we retain an armed forces? Etc. Etc.
This is all highlighting that the PM exercising the monarch’s powers is a bit much, but let’s not pretend our system doesn’t have its own parliamentary check and balances against a truly mad PM.
None of that counts if the PM has a majority. But all already new that a majority Gvt was an elected dictatorship didn’t we? That’s a feature not a bug.
The interesting tweet from Ms Adler is that Germany is looking for a deal on the backstop.
They are not looking for any deal, they have said if UK can have a workable solution immediately , that does same as backstop they will look at it. That is not a deal.
A clear majority does not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit.
That is damning.
No it isn't as there was no alternative offered and Boris is is still preferred to Corbyn which is the main thing
What part of ‘a majority of voters do not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit’ do you not understand?
What part of 'as long as Boris leads Corbyn he wins the next general election and delivers Brexit' do you not understand?
Winning the next GE is not the same thing as representing a majority of voters.
No party since WW2 has got over 50% of the vote in the UK
Labour got nearest in 1951, and probably did in Mainland UK..... i.e discounting the N Ireland seats, although in several of those the Cons/UU's were unopposed.
Eden and Macmillan were closest in 1955 and 1959
That's counting Ulster Unionist votes as Tory, of course.
A clear majority does not trust Boris to make the right decisions on Brexit.
That is damning.
No it isn't as there was no alternative offered and Boris is is still preferred to Corbyn which is the main thing
No party since WW2 has got over 50% of the vote in the UK
And?
And no party has therefore represented the majority of voters, however 52% of voters voted Leave in 2016 and Boris will deliver their verdict
52% of voters did not vote for no deal.
You are either being stupid or purposely mischievous.
My point is that Boris’s version of Brexit is not the will of the people. This is a FACT.
52% voted Leave, diehard Remainers rejected a compromise Deal and the Withdrawal Agreement so No Deal it will have to be unless the EU agrees a technical alternative to the backstop
Do you deliberately miss out that the ERG rejected a compromise Deal too ! Are they diehard Remainers ?
They still voted for Brexit just they preferred No Deal, they won the referendum after all.
Moderate Leavers voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, diehard Remainers could have accepted that compromise, they refused, so the hardliners likely won
That’s fine, but don’t pretend its the will of the people.
Leaving the EU is the will of the people
Really? So why so scared of a second referendum? Truth is, the country has changed its mind, and that is why the Tories are going to be eviscerated if you go through with this.
Has anyone picked up that in Shetland last night BOTH Labour and the Tories lost their deposits? Indeed they got such a hammering that they wouldn't have saved one adding their votes together.
That must be pretty rare.
But it does feel that the people of Shetland may be speaking for the country on how they view the Westminster performance of the 'big two'
SNP still below the 37% they got in Orkney and Shetland in 2015
Yes that apple is not an orange, give it up or are you trying to make yourself look stupid.
Tory vote down just 0.1% in Shetland last night compared to Yougov having it down 8% nationally on 2017, perhaps Yougov have underestimated the Tories under Boris this time?
LOL, hard to take 8% off 3.6%
Presumably 3.5% of Tories would have to recant their previous votes. It’s a whole new ballgame - retrospective voting. I’m not too happy with my 2005 vote, can I have another go?
John Major joining Gina Miller to fight a case to block Boris proroguing Parliament, former Labour MP for Grimsby Austin Mitchell backing Boris proroguing Parliament today, maybe a bit of a realignment going on
They are picking the wrong target, Gina Miller is doing so for the second time. The aim of those against this government should be to use next week to establish, without going to law and by clear parliamentary procedures, the government and leader they do want instead of the one they don't. If they have the numbers and the affirmative policy it can be done. If they don't have the numbers or don't have a positive policy, tough, that's politics.
Alternatively they could encourage Labour to revisit TMs deal, with which they have no serious dispute.
They play hardball and object when others do the same. It is we poor moderates who have no-one speaking for them.
Boris is trying for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical solution instead
And he’s not going to get that by November.
Whyever not?
Because any such solution will probably be unproven and will require testing in a live environment so until such proof of viability is achieved the back stop will have to remain
Unless the EU actually wants a Brexit recession, they are going to have to take a leap of faith on some creative proposals.....
Brexit Recession?
What are you? Some kind of foreigner? Or maybe just someone who likes foreigners, eh?
Hmm looking into it @SouthamObserver the EPO is a terrible example as it seems that not only could we leave the EPO but national decision making still plays a significant role there.
@HYUFD constantly tells us that Boris is representing the ‘silent majority’ and then just ignores any evidence to the contrary. If Boris was delivering the Brexit the majority wanted then that would clearly show in the polls
Was it Mao or Stalin that said "Repeat a lie often enough and it will become the truth"?
Maybe that explains the Brexiteer strategy?
@HYUFD is certainly apt in repeating lies and misleading statements ad nauseam.
I did a bit of Googling and found this quote by Goebbels (1941)
"The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous"
It is almost like he could peer 78 years into the future and see Boris
I thought you were against all this WW2 retrospective harping on ?
Generally yes, but how often do you come across such a prescient quote and from such a callous individual.
John Major joining Gina Miller to fight a case to block Boris proroguing Parliament, former Labour MP for Grimsby Austin Mitchell backing Boris proroguing Parliament today, maybe a bit of a realignment going on
They are picking the wrong target, Gina Miller is doing so for the second time. The aim of those against this government should be to use next week to establish, without going to law and by clear parliamentary procedures, the government and leader they do want instead of the one they don't. If they have the numbers and the affirmative policy it can be done. If they don't have the numbers or don't have a positive policy, tough, that's politics.
Alternatively they could encourage Labour to revisit TMs deal, with which they have no serious dispute.
They play hardball and object when others do the same. It is we poor moderates who have no-one speaking for them.
Boris is trying for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop with a technical solution instead
And he’s not going to get that by November.
Whyever not?
Because any such solution will probably be unproven and will require testing in a live environment so until such proof of viability is achieved the back stop will have to remain
Unless the EU actually wants a Brexit recession, they are going to have to take a leap of faith on some creative proposals.....
Brexit Recession?
What are you? Some kind of foreigner? Or maybe just someone who likes foreigners, eh?
A recession could happen.
Brexit is still worth going ahead with even if there is a recession.
Yes, Cummings has humiliated The Saj utterly. I don't doubt that even Boris would be axed if he failed to obey orders.
The inevitable falling-out between Boris and Cummings is going to be one of the most spectacular political entertainment moments of the next few months.
I'm surprised you give the gruesome twosome that long.
I guess there's a fairly reasonable argument for people like musicians, who (hopefully) bring pleasure to a whole bunch of people, to travel to their fans. Rather than staying in one place and encouraging all their fans to travel from around the world...After all music is one of the things that we can enjoy that doesn't have a massive carbon footprint.
This particular MP is anyway definitely a colossal knob.
He has hit the nail on the head, a bunch of hypocrites, fine for them to make millions and pollute the world but hey don't you peasants think about going anywhere.
Comments
This particular MP is anyway definitely a colossal knob.
From Bet365
Jack Leach has revealed he lent his box to Ben Stokes as he couldn't find his before coming out to bat.
At the end of day 3, Stokes said: "This is going to sound weird, but I need to keep using your box."
He then scored a match-winning 135 and is going to use it at Old Trafford.
Your side are shrieking because now the shoe is in the other foot.
Want to change that? Stand at the next election on an alternative platform, maybe seeking a referendum to rejoin. Until then the will of the people stands.
You are either being stupid or purposely mischievous.
My point is that Boris’s version of Brexit is not the will of the people. This is a FACT.
Would it be realistic for the deselected MP to run as an independent?
All that matters is what voters DID vote for. You can't deny a negative without a positive.
Next GE - Watford (Con Maj 2,092, Richard Harrington MP)
Con 1/3
LD 7/2
Lab 6/1
(Shadsy)
People who intend to use air travel should maybe STFU about others doing the same. There's nothing pretty about a hypocrite.
The solution to climate change isn't to eliminate air travel [while still travelling by air yourself].
When the speaker decided to part with convention the rules went out the window.
Whats sauce for the goose etc.
We could describe last night as the final point of the downward trajectory of the arc of the Ruth Davidson years, or the BJ effect...
Moderate Leavers voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, diehard Remainers could have accepted that compromise, they refused, so the Leaver hardliners likely won
The most unpopular LOTO in history FFS.
When I grew up there in the 70s-mid80s, there were very very few people who openly supported Labour. It was among the safest Tory seats.
And not being destroyed by farage
Or one could equally say theyve all lost a sense of perspective and stupid attemps to game the system just make things worse.
Obviously by extension, if they decide not to, then one can't.
Lets see who continues to leak now.
Maybe that explains the Brexiteer strategy?
What cap is there on VONC? Because Thatcher won on the 6th one - and nobody really remembers the first five.
"The essential English leadership secret does not depend on particular intelligence. Rather, it depends on a remarkably stupid thick-headedness. The English follow the principle that when one lies, one should lie big, and stick to it. They keep up their lies, even at the risk of looking ridiculous"
It is almost like he could peer 78 years into the future and see Boris
The European Parliament ratifies and rejects proposed laws. It cannot make them.
The EP is a legislature. It ratifies, rejects and I believe amends proposed laws. It absolutely should be elected.
Quangos should be kept to a minimum but don't make the law they operate within the confines of the laws the legislature has passed and can be overriden or even abolished by a change of the law if the electorate so demand. If the UK government chooses to leave the Enlarged Board of Appeal of the European Patent Office then it should have the right to do so.
The judiciary implements and interprets the laws the legislature has passed but if a subsequent Parliament passes a law overriding the judiciaries decision then judiciary should and must let the subsequent law take precedence.
For example, please can people stop raising the ludicrous idea that any PM could do this indefinitely? How would the estimates get passed? How would local Gvt get its grants? How would we retain an armed forces? Etc. Etc.
This is all highlighting that the PM exercising the monarch’s powers is a bit much, but let’s not pretend our system doesn’t have its own parliamentary check and balances against a truly mad PM.
None of that counts if the PM has a majority. But all already new that a majority Gvt was an elected dictatorship didn’t we? That’s a feature not a bug.
So either you are mistaken or you just don’t care. I’m going for the latter.
shame its for the wrong thing.
What are you? Some kind of foreigner? Or maybe just someone who likes foreigners, eh?
Scary stuff....
Brexit is still worth going ahead with even if there is a recession.