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  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    edited August 2019

    stodge said:


    Well our democratically elected politicians had a meeting today on plans to subvert a democratic vote.

    You mean to subvert a referendum result, Curry.

    There should be a special place in hell for those who speak of referendums as if identical with democracy.
    Yes, it's time to nail this "respecting the democratic result" nonsense with a bucketful of nails.

    I voted LEAVE - what I didn't do was sign a blank cheque to the Conservative Party (for whom running a bath is a major undertaking never mind running the country) to arrange whatever version of leaving the EU they wanted and assume it had my support.

    Only 26% support No Deal according to YouGov so that means half of those who voted LEAVE in 2016 don't back it so where is there any legitimacy for a No Deal exit on 31/10? The only reasons therefore for Johnson's obduracy must be a) his own political survival and b) the political survival of the Conservative Party neither or which interest me or many other people.
    Well actually yes, signing a blank cheque is precisely what you were doing. Cameron's the one responsible for presenting you with such a stupid decision by not having the vote be on a specific vision for Remain, but you're responsible for the choice you made
    Bit tough that.

    I voted Remain but it was a close call. It would not have been if there had been the slightest suggestion from the Leave side that No Deal was acceptable to them. It was supposed to be the easiest thing in the world to negotiate a good deal.

    Leavers were sold a Pup.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    And the EU of course. It has been unswervingly opposed to any deal other than the one negotiated with the British Prime Minister, Theresa May.

    It will look effing stupid if it offers Boris Johnson something better.
    The entire Establishment is utterly mortified that the EU might give the PM a deal. Bad enough that they dicked around for three years and ended up with squat. Very bad that somebody else could actually get a deal. But when that somebody is BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON.....
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    eek said:

    AndyJS said:

    As an aside, Ocasio-Cortez has been making comments about shifting the presidential election to a popular vote, removing the electoral college.

    Doubt it'll have an impact, but an interesting comment.

    Most Democrats have been in favour of making the change for a long time. They've only lost the popular vote once since 1990.
    It was probably not such a big deal pre-Cambridge Analytica.

    Btw, does anyone know who Cummings is using now that CA are in liquidation?

    A phoenix CA which is sensible enough to keep themselves more under the radar.
    AFC Cambridge Analytica?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    I see Scotland as relevant to a GE in its negative effects. By that I mean that the Tories might well lose 10 seats making their overall target of a majority more difficult. In contrast I would say their upside is probably 2 more, possibly 3. Labour may well lose 6-7. At the moment it is very hard to imagine them gaining any but there are quite a number of SNP seats in the west with razor thin majorities. The overall effects on Labour are likely to be negative but modest.

    The Lib Dem’s will have high hopes of gaining 1-2 more seats but also have seats at risk, notably their leader. I can’t see things changing materially but I would probably have said that before 2015 as well.

    Labour's performance in Scotland will dependant on what happens GB wide. If we find the parties neck and neck - or a small Labour lead - I can see Labour picking up SNP seats in Glasgow and the Central Belt.
    To be honest I can't. Scottish Labour are in a very bad place. For them to pick up these seats they would need a sharp fall in the SNP vote and that is looking unlikely.
    Labour's polling in Scotland is not as low as back in April 2017. The Labour recovery which then occurred surprised - almost - everybody.At an election held today, I could see Labour polling circa 20% there - with the Tories at a similar level. The potential is still there ,however, for Labour to get to circa 30% with the SNP polling no more than 35%.
    That will be the SNP Manifesto that boldly says it will implement Prohibition? Can't think of many other ways they drop to 35%.....
    Given their nanny-stataism I wouldn't rule it out. They won't be happy until all we're left with is Irn Bru and BBC Scotland.
    Bollox
    It's all going in one direction Malky. Don't rule out your Irn bru and BBC Scotland lifestyle happening (even under devolution)
    I hate both of them , and I have enough to ensure my lifestyle will continue, champagne rather than Irn Bru however.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    Pulpstar said:

    Bury are facing expulsion from the English Football League after the company attempting to buy the club, C&N Sporting Risk, said it was unable to proceed with its takeover.

    Is there any way Steve Dale can be bankrupted by the whole process ?
    I doubt it... remember he packaged up club debt and sold debt to a family member.
    He struck me as a wrong'un when he came on the radio. The chap who sold him the club didn't seem much better.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    And the EU of course. It has been unswervingly opposed to any deal other than the one negotiated with the British Prime Minister, Theresa May.

    It will look effing stupid if it offers Boris Johnson something better.
    The entire Establishment is utterly mortified that the EU might give the PM a deal. Bad enough that they dicked around for three years and ended up with squat. Very bad that somebody else could actually get a deal. But when that somebody is BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON.....
    It's hard to think of anybody more establishment than Boris Johnson. And the rest of his family.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    He will only get a deal if he gets May's WA through , so I rather doubt there will be a shortage of cheers and some torn faces for the Tories.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,130
    edited August 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Bury are facing expulsion from the English Football League after the company attempting to buy the club, C&N Sporting Risk, said it was unable to proceed with its takeover.

    Is there any way Steve Dale can be bankrupted by the whole process ?
    I doubt it... remember he packaged up club debt and sold debt to a family member.
    He struck me as a wrong'un when he came on the radio. The chap who sold him the club didn't seem much better.
    I certainly don't believe his claims he didnt even know bury had a football team and only bought it to enable him to do rehabilitation work with young offenders at the training ground.

    The owner before just went nutso spending. the average wage was 2.5x the league norm with some players on £3-4k a week...in league 2 on an average gate of 4,000.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Bury are facing expulsion from the English Football League after the company attempting to buy the club, C&N Sporting Risk, said it was unable to proceed with its takeover.

    Is there any way Steve Dale can be bankrupted by the whole process ?
    I doubt it... remember he packaged up club debt and sold debt to a family member.

    eek said:

    Bury are facing expulsion from the English Football League after the company attempting to buy the club, C&N Sporting Risk, said it was unable to proceed with its takeover.

    So that's both Bolton and Bury gone.

    I would claim to be sad about it but it's happened before to Darlington, Maidstone, and Aldershot to name a few.
    I'm sadden by it, it could happen to anyone, we had awful owners who took Liverpool from Champions league finalists to hours of administration in three years.
    As i said last night, my own club crewe who have traditionally been very well run financially, made a silly mistake by taking investment from an individual who in turn put in a load of financial obligations to enrich himself.

    The club is still on the hook for them and cant even buy him / them out for a reasonable price and so every year £100ks goes out the door.
    Crewe are in a right mess as well, they could be in real trouble if the Bennell abuse compensation is a lot more than anticipated.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    AndyJS said:

    As an aside, Ocasio-Cortez has been making comments about shifting the presidential election to a popular vote, removing the electoral college.

    Doubt it'll have an impact, but an interesting comment.

    Most Democrats have been in favour of making the change for a long time. They've only lost the popular vote once since 1990.
    It was probably not such a big deal pre-Cambridge Analytica.

    Btw, does anyone know who Cummings is using now that CA are in liquidation?

    A phoenix CA which is sensible enough to keep themselves more under the radar.
    AFC Cambridge Analytica?
    In my case Cambridge Analytica 1883.
  • Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    And the EU of course. It has been unswervingly opposed to any deal other than the one negotiated with the British Prime Minister, Theresa May.

    It will look effing stupid if it offers Boris Johnson something better.
    The entire Establishment is utterly mortified that the EU might give the PM a deal. Bad enough that they dicked around for three years and ended up with squat. Very bad that somebody else could actually get a deal. But when that somebody is BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON.....
    Well, as I understand it, the EU Leaders had a lot of respect for Mrs May, even if they didn't agree with her much of the time. I don't believe they have the same measure of respect for Boris.

    In fact, from what I read and hear, they seem to think he's a bit of tnuc.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    I see Scotland as relevant to a GE in its negative effects. By that I mean that the Tories might well lose 10 seats making their overall target of a majority more difficult. In contrast I would say their upside is probably 2 more, possibly 3. Labour may well lose 6-7. At the moment it is very hard to imagine them gaining any but there are quite a number of SNP seats in the west with razor thin majorities. The overall effects on Labour are likely to be negative but modest.

    The Lib Dem’s will have high hopes of gaining 1-2 more seats but also have seats at risk, notably their leader. I can’t see things changing materially but I would probably have said that before 2015 as well.

    Labour's performance in Scotland will dependant on what happens GB wide. If we find the parties neck and neck - or a small Labour lead - I can see Labour picking up SNP seats in Glasgow and the Central Belt.
    To be honest I can't. Scottish Labour are in a very bad place. For them to pick up these seats they would need a sharp fall in the SNP vote and that is looking unlikely.
    Labour's polling in Scotland is not as low as back in April 2017. The Labour recovery which then occurred surprised - almost - everybody.At an election held today, I could see Labour polling circa 20% there - with the Tories at a similar level. The potential is still there ,however, for Labour to get to circa 30% with the SNP polling no more than 35%.
    That will be the SNP Manifesto that boldly says it will implement Prohibition? Can't think of many other ways they drop to 35%.....
    Given their nanny-stataism I wouldn't rule it out. They won't be happy until all we're left with is Irn Bru and BBC Scotland.
    Bollox
    It's all going in one direction Malky. Don't rule out your Irn bru and BBC Scotland lifestyle happening (even under devolution)
    I hate both of them , and I have enough to ensure my lifestyle will continue, champagne rather than Irn Bru however.
    Who knows the inflation rate of Scottish Groats - don't count your chickens.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    eek said:

    Bury are facing expulsion from the English Football League after the company attempting to buy the club, C&N Sporting Risk, said it was unable to proceed with its takeover.

    So that's both Bolton and Bury gone.

    I would claim to be sad about it but it's happened before to Darlington, Maidstone, and Aldershot to name a few.
    They should look to Wimbledon for inspiration. Start again, from basics - and have one hell of an adventure on the way.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    And the EU of course. It has been unswervingly opposed to any deal other than the one negotiated with the British Prime Minister, Theresa May.

    It will look effing stupid if it offers Boris Johnson something better.
    The entire Establishment is utterly mortified that the EU might give the PM a deal. Bad enough that they dicked around for three years and ended up with squat. Very bad that somebody else could actually get a deal. But when that somebody is BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON.....
    Well, as I understand it, the EU Leaders had a lot of respect for Mrs May, even if they didn't agree with her much of the time. I don't believe they have the same measure of respect for Boris.

    In fact, from what I read and hear, they seem to think he's a bit of tnuc.
    Until they met him, if recent reports are correct. He was not what they were expecting.

    I wonder who was briefing them?
  • Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    And the EU of course. It has been unswervingly opposed to any deal other than the one negotiated with the British Prime Minister, Theresa May.

    It will look effing stupid if it offers Boris Johnson something better.
    The entire Establishment is utterly mortified that the EU might give the PM a deal. Bad enough that they dicked around for three years and ended up with squat. Very bad that somebody else could actually get a deal. But when that somebody is BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON.....
    Well, as I understand it, the EU Leaders had a lot of respect for Mrs May, even if they didn't agree with her much of the time. I don't believe they have the same measure of respect for Boris.

    In fact, from what I read and hear, they seem to think he's a bit of tnuc.
    A bit of respect for May?? they humiliated her.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,130
    edited August 2019

    Pulpstar said:

    Bury are facing expulsion from the English Football League after the company attempting to buy the club, C&N Sporting Risk, said it was unable to proceed with its takeover.

    Is there any way Steve Dale can be bankrupted by the whole process ?
    I doubt it... remember he packaged up club debt and sold debt to a family member.

    eek said:

    Bury are facing expulsion from the English Football League after the company attempting to buy the club, C&N Sporting Risk, said it was unable to proceed with its takeover.

    So that's both Bolton and Bury gone.

    I would claim to be sad about it but it's happened before to Darlington, Maidstone, and Aldershot to name a few.
    I'm sadden by it, it could happen to anyone, we had awful owners who took Liverpool from Champions league finalists to hours of administration in three years.
    As i said last night, my own club crewe who have traditionally been very well run financially, made a silly mistake by taking investment from an individual who in turn put in a load of financial obligations to enrich himself.

    The club is still on the hook for them and cant even buy him / them out for a reasonable price and so every year £100ks goes out the door.
    Crewe are in a right mess as well, they could be in real trouble if the Bennell abuse compensation is a lot more than anticipated.
    They will be sunk. As unlike the past they dont have any wonderkids that an EPL team will pay millions for.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Bury are facing expulsion from the English Football League after the company attempting to buy the club, C&N Sporting Risk, said it was unable to proceed with its takeover.

    Is there any way Steve Dale can be bankrupted by the whole process ?
    I doubt it... remember he packaged up club debt and sold debt to a family member.
    He struck me as a wrong'un when he came on the radio. The chap who sold him the club didn't seem much better.
    The guy who sold him the club for a £ is most at fault. He ran up the outrageous debts, much of it complex, opaque and skilfully hidden. Dale is guilty of being a chancer and asset stripper, out to make himself a quick buck.
    But he didn't kill them, he was merely left holding a corpse.
  • dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    AndyJS said:

    As an aside, Ocasio-Cortez has been making comments about shifting the presidential election to a popular vote, removing the electoral college.

    Doubt it'll have an impact, but an interesting comment.

    Most Democrats have been in favour of making the change for a long time. They've only lost the popular vote once since 1990.
    It was probably not such a big deal pre-Cambridge Analytica.

    Btw, does anyone know who Cummings is using now that CA are in liquidation?

    A phoenix CA which is sensible enough to keep themselves more under the radar.
    AFC Cambridge Analytica?
    The stunts they were pulling would be a lot more difficult now. 'You can fool all of the people some of the time.....'
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    I see Scotland as relevant to a GE in its negative effects. By that I mean that the Tories might well lose 10 seats making their overall target of a majority more difficult. In contrast I would say their upside is probably 2 more, possibly 3. Labour may well lose 6-7. At the moment it is very hard to imagine them gaining any but there are quite a number of SNP seats in the west with razor thin majorities. The overall effects on Labour are likely to be negative but modest.

    The Lib Dem’s will have high hopes of gaining 1-2 more seats but also have seats at risk, notably their leader. I can’t see things changing materially but I would probably have said that before 2015 as well.

    Labour's performance in Scotland will dependant on what happens GB wide. If we find the parties neck and neck - or a small Labour lead - I can see Labour picking up SNP seats in Glasgow and the Central Belt.
    To be honest I can't. Scottish Labour are in a very bad place. For them to pick up these seats they would need a sharp fall in the SNP vote and that is looking unlikely.
    Labour's polling in Scotland is not as low as back in April 2017. The Labour recovery which then occurred surprised - almost - everybody.At an election held today, I could see Labour polling circa 20% there - with the Tories at a similar level. The potential is still there ,however, for Labour to get to circa 30% with the SNP polling no more than 35%.
    That will be the SNP Manifesto that boldly says it will implement Prohibition? Can't think of many other ways they drop to 35%.....
    Given their nanny-stataism I wouldn't rule it out. They won't be happy until all we're left with is Irn Bru and BBC Scotland.
    Bollox
    It's all going in one direction Malky. Don't rule out your Irn bru and BBC Scotland lifestyle happening (even under devolution)
    I hate both of them , and I have enough to ensure my lifestyle will continue, champagne rather than Irn Bru however.
    Who knows the inflation rate of Scottish Groats - don't count your chickens.
    As I told you before Brisket it is in GBP and USD so I would only get richer.
  • Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    And the EU of course. It has been unswervingly opposed to any deal other than the one negotiated with the British Prime Minister, Theresa May.

    It will look effing stupid if it offers Boris Johnson something better.
    The entire Establishment is utterly mortified that the EU might give the PM a deal. Bad enough that they dicked around for three years and ended up with squat. Very bad that somebody else could actually get a deal. But when that somebody is BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON.....
    Well, as I understand it, the EU Leaders had a lot of respect for Mrs May, even if they didn't agree with her much of the time. I don't believe they have the same measure of respect for Boris.

    In fact, from what I read and hear, they seem to think he's a bit of tnuc.
    A bit of respect for May?? they humiliated her.
    She had an impossible task, and they knew it. That doesn't necessarily stop them from respecting her for trying her damndest to do the best she could.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited August 2019

    eek said:

    Bury are facing expulsion from the English Football League after the company attempting to buy the club, C&N Sporting Risk, said it was unable to proceed with its takeover.

    So that's both Bolton and Bury gone.

    I would claim to be sad about it but it's happened before to Darlington, Maidstone, and Aldershot to name a few.
    They should look to Wimbledon for inspiration. Start again, from basics - and have one hell of an adventure on the way.
    Well hopefully they will be treated better than Darlington was. The big question will be what happens to their stadiums as having lost that Darlington are probably now stuck in the National League North.
  • Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    And the EU of course. It has been unswervingly opposed to any deal other than the one negotiated with the British Prime Minister, Theresa May.

    It will look effing stupid if it offers Boris Johnson something better.
    The entire Establishment is utterly mortified that the EU might give the PM a deal. Bad enough that they dicked around for three years and ended up with squat. Very bad that somebody else could actually get a deal. But when that somebody is BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON.....
    Well, as I understand it, the EU Leaders had a lot of respect for Mrs May, even if they didn't agree with her much of the time. I don't believe they have the same measure of respect for Boris.

    In fact, from what I read and hear, they seem to think he's a bit of tnuc.
    Until they met him, if recent reports are correct. He was not what they were expecting.

    I wonder who was briefing them?
    Citation needed there, Mark.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    I see Scotland as relevant to a GE in its negative effects. By that I mean that the Tories might well lose 10 seats making their overall target of a majority more difficult. In contrast I would say their upside is probably 2 more, possibly 3. Labour may well lose 6-7. At the moment it is very hard to imagine them gaining any but there are quite a number of SNP seats in the west with razor thin majorities. The overall effects on Labour are likely to be negative but modest.

    The Lib Dem’s will have high hopes of gaining 1-2 more seats but also have seats at risk, notably their leader. I can’t see things changing materially but I would probably have said that before 2015 as well.

    Labour's performance in Scotland will dependant on what happens GB wide. If we find the parties neck and neck - or a small Labour lead - I can see Labour picking up SNP seats in Glasgow and the Central Belt.
    To be honest I can't. Scottish Labour are in a very bad place. For them to pick up these seats they would need a sharp fall in the SNP vote and that is looking unlikely.
    Labour's polling in Scotland is not as low as back in April 2017. The Labour recovery which then occurred surprised - almost - everybody.At an election held today, I could see Labour polling circa 20% there - with the Tories at a similar level. The potential is still there ,however, for Labour to get to circa 30% with the SNP polling no more than 35%.
    That will be the SNP Manifesto that boldly says it will implement Prohibition? Can't think of many other ways they drop to 35%.....
    Given their nanny-stataism I wouldn't rule it out. They won't be happy until all we're left with is Irn Bru and BBC Scotland.
    Bollox
    It's all going in one direction Malky. Don't rule out your Irn bru and BBC Scotland lifestyle happening (even under devolution)
    I hate both of them , and I have enough to ensure my lifestyle will continue, champagne rather than Irn Bru however.
    Who knows the inflation rate of Scottish Groats - don't count your chickens.
    As I told you before Brisket it is in GBP and USD so I would only get richer.
    If we do Brexit No Deal, wouldn't the Scottish Groat become much sought after?
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    I see Scotland as relevant to a GE in its negative effects. By that I mean that the Tories might well lose 10 seats making their overall target of a majority more difficult. In contrast I would say their upside is probably 2 more, possibly 3. Labour may well lose 6-7. At the moment it is very hard to imagine them gaining any but there are quite a number of SNP seats in the west with razor thin majorities. The overall effects on Labour are likely to be negative but modest.

    The Lib Dem’s will have high hopes of gaining 1-2 more seats but also have seats at risk, notably their leader. I can’t see things changing materially but I would probably have said that before 2015 as well.

    Labour's performance in Scotland will dependant on what happens GB wide. If we find the parties neck and neck - or a small Labour lead - I can see Labour picking up SNP seats in Glasgow and the Central Belt.
    To be honest I can't. Scottish Labour are in a very bad place. For them to pick up these seats they would need a sharp fall in the SNP vote and that is looking unlikely.
    Labour's polling in Scotland is not as low as back in April 2017. The Labour recovery which then occurred surprised - almost - everybody.At an election held today, I could see Labour polling circa 20% there - with the Tories at a similar level. The potential is still there ,however, for Labour to get to circa 30% with the SNP polling no more than 35%.
    That will be the SNP Manifesto that boldly says it will implement Prohibition? Can't think of many other ways they drop to 35%.....
    Given their nanny-stataism I wouldn't rule it out. They won't be happy until all we're left with is Irn Bru and BBC Scotland.
    Bollox
    It's all going in one direction Malky. Don't rule out your Irn bru and BBC Scotland lifestyle happening (even under devolution)
    I hate both of them , and I have enough to ensure my lifestyle will continue, champagne rather than Irn Bru however.
    Who knows the inflation rate of Scottish Groats - don't count your chickens.
    As I told you before Brisket it is in GBP and USD so I would only get richer.
    I think it was actually Ishmael that told me that.

    Great for rich separatists - but what about us poor proles that will have to get paid in this paper soft currency???
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Why do you think more democracy is automatically better than less? The best documented direct democracy in history is ancient Athens. This was a group of people so sophisticated that they went en masse to watch fucking Euripidean tragedy *for pleasure,* and they mindlessly voted for wholesale judicial murder of their own fellow citizens and foreign women and children, time and time again, on the basis of Sun editorials (or equivalent). And to make things worse, Cameron's stupid wheeze in the AV vote has weaponised the repulsive national mawkishness over the NHS in such a way that referendums are even more easily subverted than they were before. Let's take the cost of a third runway, or of HS2, or of keeping lifers for life rather than hanging them, and give it to the NHS.

    Is that how you want to be governed?

    Meldrew on acid! Or with indigestion. And yet I almost like it. Yes indeed.

    St John's Wood, guy next to me, leathery face, 60s, rich.

    "I'm busy busy, 24/7, but I always make time for people".

    15 mins later -

    "There’s no English left in England now. That's what Brexit is about. We're losing our identity and this is the last chance to stop it. It's for my children and my grandchildren and all the rest of it."

    #takingbackcontrol
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    I see Scotland as relevant to a GE in its negative effects. By that I mean that the Tories might well lose 10 seats making their overall target of a majority more difficu

    The Lib Dem’s will have high hopes of gaining 1-2 more seats but also have seats at risk, notably their leader. I can’t see things changing materially but I would probably have said that before 2015 as well.

    Labour's performance in Scotland will dependant on what happens GB wide. If we find the parties neck and neck - or a small Labour lead - I can see Labour picking up SNP seats in Glasgow and the Central Belt.
    To be honest I can't. Scottish Labour are in a very bad place. For them to pick up these seats they would need a sharp fall in the SNP vote and that is looking unlikely.
    Labour's polling in Scotland is not as low as back in April 2017. The Labour recovery which then occurred surprised - almost - everybody.At an election held today, I could see Labour polling circa 20% there - with the Tories at a similar level. The potential is still there ,however, for Labour to get to circa 30% with the SNP polling no more than 35%.
    That will be the SNP Manifesto that boldly says it will implement Prohibition? Can't think of many other ways they drop to 35%.....
    Given their nanny-stataism I wouldn't rule it out. They won't be happy until all we're left with is Irn Bru and BBC Scotland.
    Bollox
    It's all going in one direction Malky. Don't rule out your Irn bru and BBC Scotland lifestyle happening (even under devolution)
    I hate both of them , and I have enough to ensure my lifestyle will continue, champagne rather than Irn Bru however.
    Who knows the inflation rate of Scottish Groats - don't count your chickens.
    As I told you before Brisket it is in GBP and USD so I would only get richer.
    If we do Brexit No Deal, wouldn't the Scottish Groat become much sought after?
    Scottish Groats will be backed by the BoE and pegged to GBP. I don't think anyone will get rich - although Scotland will be made a mockery of.
  • algarkirk said:

    Bury are facing expulsion from the English Football League after the company attempting to buy the club, C&N Sporting Risk, said it was unable to proceed with its takeover.

    It's all very sad and everything, but the sight of football fans being sad/angry/devastated/gutted/bereaved/cross/despairing and looking for someone to blame when after all this time other people's money has finally run out and they are unable to locate another mug foolish enough to pour loads more down this communal black hole, coupled with their conspicuous lack of willingness to put up their house/job or sell their children into slavery to own it themselves is fine theatre of its sort. And as with so many things the BBC manages to ask all the questions except the hard ones.

    I'm not a great believer in the wisdom of football fans, but this seems unfair.

    Most football fans don't attempt to run football teams, both because they lack the money and even more so because they lack any experience of running a sizable enterprise of that sort. Even if one had a good lottery win, they'd be making a big mistake as it needs more than that to be a success. Torquay United for example indeed had a lottery winner, by all accounts a thoroughly decent man, and very nearly went to the wall a few years ago - the money runs out and the plan wasn't sufficient to ensure they were okay after that.

    Club owners need to have a robust business plan. It's nice if they also have sufficiently deep pockets to give a source of finance, but that's actually the less important and can be a curse if it means the owner doesn't bother with a business plan.

    It seems to me that Bury has got into its situation because the business plan was worthless, and it's been allowed to get to such a stage because the board weren't doing their job (at best) in managing the finances over a period. Now it's not just a difficult thing to invest in but toxic - anyone foolish enough to put a quid on the table to buy them would expose themselves to debts which aren't just large but uncertain.

    Fans aren't wrong to blame the board in this sort of situation and to ask "how on earth did it come to THIS?" as it doesn't happen overnight. And Steve Dale does seem, putting it carefully, a man with more chat than he has financial acumen.

    Of course, football fans generally also blame their board for "lack of ambition" when they do have a sensible business plan in place, which is normally much less valid.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490

    Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    And the EU of course. It has been unswervingly opposed to any deal other than the one negotiated with the British Prime Minister, Theresa May.

    It will look effing stupid if it offers Boris Johnson something better.
    The entire Establishment is utterly mortified that the EU might give the PM a deal. Bad enough that they dicked around for three years and ended up with squat. Very bad that somebody else could actually get a deal. But when that somebody is BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON.....
    And I think a lot of them know in their heart of hearts that now their work is to wreck a deal. I suspect that many of them would prefer a no deal outcome to Boris getting a deal.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    I see Scotland as relevant to a GE in its negative effects. By that I mean that the Tories might well lose 10 seats making their overall target of a majority more difficult. In contrast I would say their upside is probably 2 more, possibly 3. Labour may well lose 6-7. At the moment it is very hard to imagine them gaining any but there are quite a number of SNP seats in the west with razor thin majorities. The overall effects on Labour are likely to be negative but modest.

    The Lib Dem’s will have high hopes of gaining 1-2 more seats but also have seats at risk, notably their leader. I can’t see things changing materially but I would probably have said that before 2015 as well.

    Labour's performance in Scotland will dependant on what happens GB wide. If we find the parties neck and neck - or a small Labour lead - I can see Labour picking up SNP seats in Glasgow and the Central Belt.
    To be honest I can't. Scottish Labour are in a very bad place. For them to pick up these seats they would need a sharp fall in the SNP vote and that is looking unlikely.
    Labour's polling in Scotland is not as low as back in April 2017. The Labour recovery which then occurred surprised - almost - everybody.At an election held today, I could see Labour polling circa 20% there - with the Tories at a similar level. The potential is still there ,however, for Labour to get to circa 30% with the SNP polling no more than 35%.
    That will be the SNP Manifesto that boldly says it will implement Prohibition? Can't think of many other ways they drop to 35%.....
    Really? They only polled 37% in 2017 and the most recent poll gives them 38%. In a Westminster election, I expect their vote share to slip.
    Be shocked and amazed if under 40%
    As indeed you were in 2017.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Bury are facing expulsion from the English Football League after the company attempting to buy the club, C&N Sporting Risk, said it was unable to proceed with its takeover.

    So that's both Bolton and Bury gone.

    I would claim to be sad about it but it's happened before to Darlington, Maidstone, and Aldershot to name a few.
    They should look to Wimbledon for inspiration. Start again, from basics - and have one hell of an adventure on the way.
    Well hopefully they will be treated better than Darlington was. The big question will be what happens to their stadiums as having lost that Darlington are probably now stuck in the National League North.
    Not sure who could be tenants at Bolton. Too big a stadium. Bury could be a possible rugby league club. Swinton played there for a while and are sans permanent home.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    justin124 said:

    DavidL said:

    I see Scotland as relevant to a GE in its negative effects. By that I mean that the Tories might well lose 10 seats making their overall target of a majority more difficu

    The Lib Dem’s will have high hopes of gaining 1-2 more seats but also have seats at risk, notably their leader. I can’t see things changing materially but I would probably have said that before 2015 as well.

    Labour's performance in Scotland will dependant on what happens GB wide. If we find the parties neck and neck - or a small Labour lead - I can see Labour picking up SNP seats in Glasgow and the Central Belt.
    To be honest I can't. Scottish Labour are in a very bad place. For them to pick up these seats they would need a sharp fall in the SNP vote and that is looking unlikely.
    Labour's polling in Scotland is not as low as back in April 2017. The Labour recovery which then occurred surprised - almost - everybody.At an election held today, I could see Labour polling circa 20% there - with the Tories at a similar level. The potential is still there ,however, for Labour to get to circa 30% with the SNP polling no more than 35%.
    That will be the SNP Manifesto that boldly says it will implement Prohibition? Can't think of many other ways they drop to 35%.....
    Given their nanny-stataism I wouldn't rule it out. They won't be happy until all we're left with is Irn Bru and BBC Scotland.
    Bollox
    It's all going in one direction Malky. Don't rule out your Irn bru and BBC Scotland lifestyle happening (even under devolution)
    I hate both of them , and I have enough to ensure my lifestyle will continue, champagne rather than Irn Bru however.
    Who knows the inflation rate of Scottish Groats - don't count your chickens.
    As I told you before Brisket it is in GBP and USD so I would only get richer.
    If we do Brexit No Deal, wouldn't the Scottish Groat become much sought after?
    Scottish Groats will be backed by the BoE and pegged to GBP. I don't think anyone will get rich - although Scotland will be made a mockery of.
    I always thought Groats was Scots phonetic for Grrrrrr oats (again)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited August 2019
    Check out the final sentence.




  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Check out the final sentence.




    only 65 more days of blaming shifting to go
  • Check out the final sentence.




    Very Passive Aggressive. I think the EU lot have given up caring us and are just trolling now.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    Check out the final sentence.




    Both sides continue to abdicate their share of responsibility for compromise and finger point at the other side. It is tiring. We are governed by childish men with childish mindsets.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    Check out the final sentence.




    Very Passive Aggressive. I think the EU lot have given up caring us and are just trolling now.
    Why should they ? It was the UK's decision to leave. The EU never asked us to leave. However, the UK chooses to leave, ultimately the decision must be the UK's as it chose to Leave in the first place.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Gabs2 said:

    Check out the final sentence.




    Both sides continue to abdicate their share of responsibility for compromise and finger point at the other side. It is tiring. We are governed by childish men with childish mindsets.
    More can kicking on the way..you can just feel.it
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Check out the final sentence.




    There isn't much in there to suggest that a whizzo new proposal to eliminate the backstop is going to fall on fertile ground.
  • Check out the final sentence.




    only 65 more days of blaming shifting to go

    You must be joking. We've got years of this to come. The next bit is the blame for all the stuff that goes wrong when we get our No Deal. Then there's the blame around the difficulty in restarting negotiations. Then there's the blame for what we eventually end up with. Then there's the blame for when Parliament rejects it all again. And so on and so on and so on.

  • Check out the final sentence.




    Very Passive Aggressive. I think the EU lot have given up caring us and are just trolling now.
    Why should they ? It was the UK's decision to leave. The EU never asked us to leave. However, the UK chooses to leave, ultimately the decision must be the UK's as it chose to Leave in the first place.
    And the trolling ?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    timmo said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Check out the final sentence.




    Both sides continue to abdicate their share of responsibility for compromise and finger point at the other side. It is tiring. We are governed by childish men with childish mindsets.
    More can kicking on the way..you can just feel.it
    It's the only thing that can command a majority, so it seems the obvious next step.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Check out the final sentence.




    only 65 more days of blaming shifting to go

    You must be joking. We've got years of this to come. The next bit is the blame for all the stuff that goes wrong when we get our No Deal. Then there's the blame around the difficulty in restarting negotiations. Then there's the blame for what we eventually end up with. Then there's the blame for when Parliament rejects it all again. And so on and so on and so on.

    the press will get bored with it soi will the politicans, theres more to life than Brexit.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited August 2019
    The leaderships of both main parties want an election because they're both convinced the 30 point drop in support for Con and Lab since the last GE will only affect the other party, not them. Hilarious.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    And the EU of course. It has been unswervingly opposed to any deal other than the one negotiated with the British Prime Minister, Theresa May.

    It will look effing stupid if it offers Boris Johnson something better.
    The entire Establishment is utterly mortified that the EU might give the PM a deal. Bad enough that they dicked around for three years and ended up with squat. Very bad that somebody else could actually get a deal. But when that somebody is BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON.....
    It's hard to think of anybody more establishment than Boris Johnson. And the rest of his family.
    Good point. Far too many Leavers are allowed to pretend that they are some kind of revolutionary, when Johnson and the Rees-Moggs are so riddled with class privilege it seeps out of them like slime.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Check out the final sentence.




    Very Passive Aggressive. I think the EU lot have given up caring us and are just trolling now.
    Why should they ? It was the UK's decision to leave. The EU never asked us to leave. However, the UK chooses to leave, ultimately the decision must be the UK's as it chose to Leave in the first place.
    Plus of course the UK prime minister negotiated a good deal with them.
  • She's made up her mind or she's in the land of make believe?

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1166333224072765440
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Gabs2 said:

    Check out the final sentence.




    Both sides continue to abdicate their share of responsibility for compromise and finger point at the other side. It is tiring. We are governed by childish men with childish mindsets.
    Hmm - the EU reached a deal with the UK which the turned out not to be agreed by others (Parliament) within the UK. Why should the EU be doing any of the work here? The UK (Government and Parliament) needs to decide what it can accept and return with a proposal to the EU..

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    She's made up her mind or she's in the land of make believe?

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1166333224072765440

    Another front on her feud with David Van Day:

    https://talkradio.co.uk/news/80s-pop-star-elected-conservative-councillor-essex-19032230377
  • Check out the final sentence.




    only 65 more days of blaming shifting to go

    You must be joking. We've got years of this to come. The next bit is the blame for all the stuff that goes wrong when we get our No Deal. Then there's the blame around the difficulty in restarting negotiations. Then there's the blame for what we eventually end up with. Then there's the blame for when Parliament rejects it all again. And so on and so on and so on.

    the press will get bored with it soi will the politicans, theres more to life than Brexit.

    Could I interest you in some magic beans that I have going cheap? All they need is a bit of water and they grow into solid gold ingots, I promise. I bought them online from the widow of a recently deceased Nigerian general.

  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    eek said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Check out the final sentence.




    Both sides continue to abdicate their share of responsibility for compromise and finger point at the other side. It is tiring. We are governed by childish men with childish mindsets.
    Hmm - the EU reached a deal with the UK which the turned out not to be agreed by others (Parliament) within the UK. Why should the EU be doing any of the work here? The UK (Government and Parliament) needs to decide what it can accept and return with a proposal to the EU..

    Because the EU pushed too hard for a deal tilted in their interests which could not pass parliament. It has a responsibility for finding a compromise that works for all stakeholders. Just as the UK does.
  • I've been playing with Electoral Calculus - I think Brexit party is playing havoc with the anti-separatist vote cus I keep getting SNP gains.

    Perhaps Farage could stand aside in Scotland for the sake of the Union. Worth looking into.
  • Check out the final sentence.




    Very Passive Aggressive. I think the EU lot have given up caring us and are just trolling now.
    Why should they ? It was the UK's decision to leave. The EU never asked us to leave. However, the UK chooses to leave, ultimately the decision must be the UK's as it chose to Leave in the first place.
    And the trolling ?

    Isn't it just a statement of fact? The UK Prime Minister can prevent a No Deal Brexit at any point up until 11.00 pm on 31st October.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Gabs2 said:

    eek said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Check out the final sentence.




    Both sides continue to abdicate their share of responsibility for compromise and finger point at the other side. It is tiring. We are governed by childish men with childish mindsets.
    Hmm - the EU reached a deal with the UK which the turned out not to be agreed by others (Parliament) within the UK. Why should the EU be doing any of the work here? The UK (Government and Parliament) needs to decide what it can accept and return with a proposal to the EU..

    Because the EU pushed too hard for a deal tilted in their interests which could not pass parliament. It has a responsibility for finding a compromise that works for all stakeholders. Just as the UK does.
    Really? Given May's red lines I was surprised the EU found a means of creating a deal at all..
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Check out the final sentence.




    only 65 more days of blaming shifting to go

    You must be joking. We've got years of this to come. The next bit is the blame for all the stuff that goes wrong when we get our No Deal. Then there's the blame around the difficulty in restarting negotiations. Then there's the blame for what we eventually end up with. Then there's the blame for when Parliament rejects it all again. And so on and so on and so on.

    the press will get bored with it soi will the politicans, theres more to life than Brexit.

    Could I interest you in some magic beans that I have going cheap? All they need is a bit of water and they grow into solid gold ingots, I promise. I bought them online from the widow of a recently deceased Nigerian general.

    Ive already got some.

    If the GE is out of the way, it will just become a leftie chant like Thatcher. people and life move on.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    She's made up her mind or she's in the land of make believe?

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1166333224072765440

    Well, at least it wasn't Cheryl Baker... :(
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,573
    edited August 2019


    I'm not a great believer in the wisdom of football fans, but this seems unfair.

    Most football fans don't attempt to run football teams, both because they lack the money and even more so because they lack any experience of running a sizable enterprise of that sort. Even if one had a good lottery win, they'd be making a big mistake as it needs more than that to be a success. Torquay United for example indeed had a lottery winner, by all accounts a thoroughly decent man, and very nearly went to the wall a few years ago - the money runs out and the plan wasn't sufficient to ensure they were okay after that.

    Club owners need to have a robust business plan. It's nice if they also have sufficiently deep pockets to give a source of finance, but that's actually the less important and can be a curse if it means the owner doesn't bother with a business plan.

    It seems to me that Bury has got into its situation because the business plan was worthless, and it's been allowed to get to such a stage because the board weren't doing their job (at best) in managing the finances over a period. Now it's not just a difficult thing to invest in but toxic - anyone foolish enough to put a quid on the table to buy them would expose themselves to debts which aren't just large but uncertain.

    Fans aren't wrong to blame the board in this sort of situation and to ask "how on earth did it come to THIS?" as it doesn't happen overnight. And Steve Dale does seem, putting it carefully, a man with more chat than he has financial acumen.

    Of course, football fans generally also blame their board for "lack of ambition" when they do have a sensible business plan in place, which is normally much less valid.




    ----------------------------------------------------

    Quite correct, Sir Norfolk. I am being unfair and unreasonable and you are being fair and reasonable. I just have this lurking doubt that there may be a scintilla of truth behind my exaggeration. It is also the case that football clubs, at great expense to some rich uncle, are a privilege and not a right; also that by and large they are not a sane business proposition; also that as long as you are prepared to cut your coat according to your cloth (playing on a small ground in the Nadir Brickworks 7th Division North) football is sustainable. Sustainable football is not what the fans dreams are made of. They are mostly made of other people's money. In this respect it resembles socialism.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    And the EU of course. It has been unswervingly opposed to any deal other than the one negotiated with the British Prime Minister, Theresa May.

    It will look effing stupid if it offers Boris Johnson something better.
    The entire Establishment is utterly mortified that the EU might give the PM a deal. Bad enough that they dicked around for three years and ended up with squat. Very bad that somebody else could actually get a deal. But when that somebody is BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON.....
    In what parallel universe of yours does the "Establishment" not include people like Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage etc.?

    Or is your definition of the Establishment just people who happen to disagree with you?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    Soubrey and the other dipshits will look awful if Boris gets a deal despite their best efforts. I mean shockingly, iredeemably awful. SNP are going to look especially bad.Teehee.

    Not going to happen though is it?
  • Check out the final sentence.




    only 65 more days of blaming shifting to go

    You must be joking. We've got years of this to come. The next bit is the blame for all the stuff that goes wrong when we get our No Deal. Then there's the blame around the difficulty in restarting negotiations. Then there's the blame for what we eventually end up with. Then there's the blame for when Parliament rejects it all again. And so on and so on and so on.

    the press will get bored with it soi will the politicans, theres more to life than Brexit.

    Could I interest you in some magic beans that I have going cheap? All they need is a bit of water and they grow into solid gold ingots, I promise. I bought them online from the widow of a recently deceased Nigerian general.

    Ive already got some.

    If the GE is out of the way, it will just become a leftie chant like Thatcher. people and life move on.

    Yep, I guess you're right. Nigel Farage and the ERG are bound just to stand down and accept whatever happens next. Now, about those beans ...

  • Check out the final sentence.




    Very Passive Aggressive. I think the EU lot have given up caring us and are just trolling now.
    Why should they ? It was the UK's decision to leave. The EU never asked us to leave. However, the UK chooses to leave, ultimately the decision must be the UK's as it chose to Leave in the first place.
    And the trolling ?
    Voting, polling
    Blogging, trolling
    And now I'm all alone in Brexit-Land
    My only home
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    edited August 2019
    This seems a reasonable summary of the events. Apologises if it's already been posted.

    "Brexit: Is EU softening over Withdrawal Agreement?"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-49475117
  • She's made up her mind or she's in the land of make believe?

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1166333224072765440

    Brex Fizz?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    The Conservatives' official feed is becoming increasingly alt-right.

    https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1166362662231580673
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Check out the final sentence.




    only 65 more days of blaming shifting to go

    You must be joking. We've got years of this to come. The next bit is the blame for all the stuff that goes wrong when we get our No Deal. Then there's the blame around the difficulty in restarting negotiations. Then there's the blame for what we eventually end up with. Then there's the blame for when Parliament rejects it all again. And so on and so on and so on.

    the press will get bored with it soi will the politicans, theres more to life than Brexit.

    Could I interest you in some magic beans that I have going cheap? All they need is a bit of water and they grow into solid gold ingots, I promise. I bought them online from the widow of a recently deceased Nigerian general.

    Ive already got some.

    If the GE is out of the way, it will just become a leftie chant like Thatcher. people and life move on.

    Yep, I guess you're right. Nigel Farage and the ERG are bound just to stand down and accept whatever happens next. Now, about those beans ...

    Oh there will be endless moaning from the extremes, but thats just noise in the system.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Gabs2 said:

    eek said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Check out the final sentence.




    Both sides continue to abdicate their share of responsibility for compromise and finger point at the other side. It is tiring. We are governed by childish men with childish mindsets.
    Hmm - the EU reached a deal with the UK which the turned out not to be agreed by others (Parliament) within the UK. Why should the EU be doing any of the work here? The UK (Government and Parliament) needs to decide what it can accept and return with a proposal to the EU..

    Because the EU pushed too hard for a deal tilted in their interests which could not pass parliament. It has a responsibility for finding a compromise that works for all stakeholders. Just as the UK does.
    But, the view from many EU capitals was that the deal conceded far too much to the UK.
  • Check out the final sentence.




    only 65 more days of blaming shifting to go

    You must be joking. We've got years of this to come. The next bit is the blame for all the stuff that goes wrong when we get our No Deal. Then there's the blame around the difficulty in restarting negotiations. Then there's the blame for what we eventually end up with. Then there's the blame for when Parliament rejects it all again. And so on and so on and so on.

    the press will get bored with it soi will the politicans, theres more to life than Brexit.

    Could I interest you in some magic beans that I have going cheap? All they need is a bit of water and they grow into solid gold ingots, I promise. I bought them online from the widow of a recently deceased Nigerian general.

    Ive already got some.

    If the GE is out of the way, it will just become a leftie chant like Thatcher. people and life move on.

    Yep, I guess you're right. Nigel Farage and the ERG are bound just to stand down and accept whatever happens next. Now, about those beans ...

    Oh there will be endless moaning from the extremes, but thats just noise in the system.

    The problem is that No Deal is not an end state - or a sustainable one. But for as long as it pertains the government's energies will be largely devoted to managing it. Then, if it does end it means a whole new negotiation. We are stuck with this for years to come. We will have to agree to disagree on this one, I fear.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    I've been playing with Electoral Calculus - I think Brexit party is playing havoc with the anti-separatist vote cus I keep getting SNP gains.

    Perhaps Farage could stand aside in Scotland for the sake of the Union. Worth looking into.

    The Brexit Party is officially neutral on the Union, its policy is both the UK and any future independent Scotland should leave the EU.


    However while Labour and the Tories likely lose seats to the SNP, the LDs may pick up Fife North East from the SNP
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Gabs2 said:

    eek said:

    Gabs2 said:

    Check out the final sentence.




    Both sides continue to abdicate their share of responsibility for compromise and finger point at the other side. It is tiring. We are governed by childish men with childish mindsets.
    Hmm - the EU reached a deal with the UK which the turned out not to be agreed by others (Parliament) within the UK. Why should the EU be doing any of the work here? The UK (Government and Parliament) needs to decide what it can accept and return with a proposal to the EU..

    Because the EU pushed too hard for a deal tilted in their interests which could not pass parliament. It has a responsibility for finding a compromise that works for all stakeholders. Just as the UK does.
    That "pushed too hard" in full:

    "We want a different agreement"
    "Here's your different agreement"
    "Not good enough. I wanna divorce"
    "Ok. Two years time good?"
    "Yup"

    [Pause]

    "Can't make it in time:can we have a Withdrawal Agreement til 2020"
    "Oh go on then. Here you are"
    "Kewl. What's this backstop?"
    "In case you can't make your mind up"
    "Oh. Can you extend it to the whole of the UK?"
    "Ok. There you go"

    [Pause]

    "Can't get Parliament to say yes. Can we have an extension?"
    "Dafuq? Oh, ok: six months ok?"
    "Kewl!"
    "Don't waste it!"

    [Pause]

    "Nahh, don't want it. Take bits out!"
    "Nope. We told you this before"
    "I HATE YOU. YOU'RE SO UNFAIR! MY FRIENDS DON'T LIKE YOU. I'LL SET MY DAD ON YOU! ITS ALL YOUR FAULT!"
    "Oh, for fucks sake..."
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Check out the final sentence.




    only 65 more days of blaming shifting to go

    You must be joking. We've got years of this to come. The next bit is the blame for all the stuff that goes wrong when we get our No Deal. Then there's the blame around the difficulty in restarting negotiations. Then there's the blame for what we eventually end up with. Then there's the blame for when Parliament rejects it all again. And so on and so on and so on.

    the press will get bored with it soi will the politicans, theres more to life than Brexit.

    Could I interest you in some magic beans that I have going cheap? All they need is a bit of water and they grow into solid gold ingots, I promise. I bought them online from the widow of a recently deceased Nigerian general.

    Ive already got some.

    If the GE is out of the way, it will just become a leftie chant like Thatcher. people and life move on.

    Yep, I guess you're right. Nigel Farage and the ERG are bound just to stand down and accept whatever happens next. Now, about those beans ...

    Oh there will be endless moaning from the extremes, but thats just noise in the system.

    The problem is that No Deal is not an end state - or a sustainable one. But for as long as it pertains the government's energies will be largely devoted to managing it. Then, if it does end it means a whole new negotiation. We are stuck with this for years to come. We will have to agree to disagree on this one, I fear.

    oh well if you must :-)

    but there are much more important things than Brexit
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Scott_P said:
    We want trade agreements with both, we just do not want to be part of either
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    edited August 2019
    Deleted - my misunderstanding
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    Check out the final sentence.




    Very Passive Aggressive. I think the EU lot have given up caring us and are just trolling now.
    Why should they ? It was the UK's decision to leave. The EU never asked us to leave. However, the UK chooses to leave, ultimately the decision must be the UK's as it chose to Leave in the first place.
    And the trolling ?

    Isn't it just a statement of fact? The UK Prime Minister can prevent a No Deal Brexit at any point up until 11.00 pm on 31st October.

    No it can't. At some point it's too late. Frankly I think we're there now... :("
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,084
    HYUFD said:

    I've been playing with Electoral Calculus - I think Brexit party is playing havoc with the anti-separatist vote cus I keep getting SNP gains.

    Perhaps Farage could stand aside in Scotland for the sake of the Union. Worth looking into.

    The Brexit Party is officially neutral on the Union, its policy is both the UK and any future independent Scotland should leave the EU.


    However while Labour and the Tories likely lose seats to the SNP, the LDs may pick up Fife North East from the SNP
    and not just FNE...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019
    AndyJS said:

    As an aside, Ocasio-Cortez has been making comments about shifting the presidential election to a popular vote, removing the electoral college.

    Doubt it'll have an impact, but an interesting comment.

    Most Democrats have been in favour of making the change for a long time. They've only lost the popular vote once since 1990.
    Though had the Republicans nominated John McCain rather than George W Bush in 2000 they would likely have won the popular vote then too, same as if they had picked Kasich in 2016 rather than Trump
  • You will be delighted to know I've written a thread featuring AV that should go up later on this week.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    You will be delighted to know I've written a thread featuring AV that should go up later on this week.

    Yay!

    (Has it got pineapple on top?)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    As an aside, Ocasio-Cortez has been making comments about shifting the presidential election to a popular vote, removing the electoral college.

    Doubt it'll have an impact, but an interesting comment.

    Most Democrats have been in favour of making the change for a long time. They've only lost the popular vote once since 1990.
    Though had the Republicans nominated John McCain rather than George W Bush in 2000 they would likely have won the popular vote then too, same as if they had picked Kasich in 2016 rather than Trump
    You've absolutely no way of knowing that.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    She's made up her mind or she's in the land of make believe?

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1166333224072765440

    She was the lead vocalist on one of my favourite 80s hits, When We Were Young.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    HYUFD said:
    I'm very doubtful whether this kind of unhinged ranting does the Conservatives any good at all. It whips up the faithful but alienates the undecided. Perhaps the Conservatives can win with only the whipped-up faithful. It does rather invite a mass co-ordinated opposition.
  • You will be delighted to know I've written a thread featuring AV that should go up later on this week.

    Yay!

    (Has it got pineapple on top?)
    No, but in another thread the headline features the greatest pun in PB history, in fact in may be the greatest pun in humankind.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    I'm puzzled. I am on the Continent at the moment, and Betfair Exchange shows me the same odds as in the UK, but denominated in Euros.

    So is it possible to bet on No Deal in Euros, and against No Deal in sterling, in order to take advantage of the likely currency movements?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    You will be delighted to know I've written a thread featuring AV that should go up later on this week.

    But is AV enough, anymore ?
  • Nigelb said:

    You will be delighted to know I've written a thread featuring AV that should go up later on this week.

    But is AV enough, anymore ?
    It is a Brexit heavy thread.
  • HYUFD said:
    I'm very doubtful whether this kind of unhinged ranting does the Conservatives any good at all. It whips up the faithful but alienates the undecided. Perhaps the Conservatives can win with only the whipped-up faithful. It does rather invite a mass co-ordinated opposition.
    Not sure Alastair.

    You could be right but plotting to overthrow a referendum could be seen by many as very undemocratic. I doubt it alienates all the undecided who will come to their own judgement

    The next polls will be very interesting
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:
    I'm very doubtful whether this kind of unhinged ranting does the Conservatives any good at all. It whips up the faithful but alienates the undecided. Perhaps the Conservatives can win with only the whipped-up faithful. It does rather invite a mass co-ordinated opposition.
    The Tories can win with most of the Leave vote to deliver Brexit and Remainers split multiple ways
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    As an aside, Ocasio-Cortez has been making comments about shifting the presidential election to a popular vote, removing the electoral college.

    Doubt it'll have an impact, but an interesting comment.

    Most Democrats have been in favour of making the change for a long time. They've only lost the popular vote once since 1990.
    Though had the Republicans nominated John McCain rather than George W Bush in 2000 they would likely have won the popular vote then too, same as if they had picked Kasich in 2016 rather than Trump
    You've absolutely no way of knowing that.
    I know what the polling suggested, McCain beat Gore comfortably in 2000 as Kasich comfortably beat Hillary in 2016 in the national popular vote
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    HYUFD said:
    The question is why did Corbyn call for a meeting and then not bother to attend it?

    Shows where his real priorities are...
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    HYUFD said:
    I'm very doubtful whether this kind of unhinged ranting does the Conservatives any good at all. It whips up the faithful but alienates the undecided. Perhaps the Conservatives can win with only the whipped-up faithful. It does rather invite a mass co-ordinated opposition.
    Not sure Alastair.

    You could be right but plotting to overthrow a referendum could be seen by many as very undemocratic. I doubt it alienates all the undecided who will come to their own judgement

    The next polls will be very interesting
    I don't recall the referendum we had on no deal
  • You will be delighted to know I've written a thread featuring AV that should go up later on this week.

    No2AV 68%
    Yes 2 AV 32%

    :innocent:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    HYUFD said:
    I'm very doubtful whether this kind of unhinged ranting does the Conservatives any good at all. It whips up the faithful but alienates the undecided. Perhaps the Conservatives can win with only the whipped-up faithful. It does rather invite a mass co-ordinated opposition.
    Not sure Alastair.

    You could be right but plotting to overthrow a referendum could be seen by many as very undemocratic. I doubt it alienates all the undecided who will come to their own judgement

    The next polls will be very interesting
    But they're not plotting to overthrow a referendum Big_G, they're plotting to rule out No Deal (which nobody voted for because it wasn't on offer).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    She's made up her mind or she's in the land of make believe?

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1166333224072765440

    At last, the intellectual heft that TBP has been crying out for.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'm very doubtful whether this kind of unhinged ranting does the Conservatives any good at all. It whips up the faithful but alienates the undecided. Perhaps the Conservatives can win with only the whipped-up faithful. It does rather invite a mass co-ordinated opposition.
    The Tories can win with most of the Leave vote to deliver Brexit and Remainers split multiple ways
    Go for it then.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Nigelb said:

    You will be delighted to know I've written a thread featuring AV that should go up later on this week.

    But is AV enough, anymore ?
    It is a Brexit heavy thread.
    Naturally - there is no Brexit Lite anymore.
This discussion has been closed.