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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Electoral reform – Coming sooner than you think?

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  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    Roger said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Well yes it's done and I don't think it'll have any party political ramifications. But I do think the country-particularly outside London-will find this in the midst of our well trailed austerity program inexplicable.

    This wasn't us all being in this together. This was Marie Antoinette. it was grotesque and it was vulgar and there will be some very bemused and angry people out there

    Roger.

    Just what is wrong with Marie Antoinette?

    It wasn't her fault she lost her head. You have the French lefties to blame for that.

    And who wouldn't swap a portside flat in Villeneuve-sur-Mer for Le Petit Trianon?

    Marie A was classy, Roger.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,243
    BenM said:

    Germans need to wake up and understand that, in the absence of any country leaving the euro, Merkel and their mortal fear of non existent inflation is the problem in the eurozone. They're killing their own market.

    The ECB needs to print, print and print some more.

    Yes, because that went so well for them back in the early twenties. For a more recent example please see Zimbabwe and also check Hungary in 1946.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "Should have asked a follow up question about Scotland or GB."

    Would have been interesting, but the point unionists are keen to avoid is this - if Shetland votes against Scottish independence, that is not the same thing (it's not even vaguely close to the same thing) as a vote for Shetland to leave Scotland in the event of independence.
  • SeanT said:


    I think, in the end, this became a morale-boosting knees-up for Tory England. It was a chance for rightwingers to gleefully rub the noses of the left in Thatcher's ongoing victory, and screw the whingeing northerners. And they took it.

    Was it risky? Yes. Has it made Tories feel better about themselves? Yes, a little. Did they get away with it? Yes, probably, with the grovelling assistance of the BBC, which was obviously trying to build bridges with the right.

    If I were a Tory strategist, I would look at the opinion polls too. Will the pollsters think soppy lefty behaviour will win votes?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited April 2013
    Perhaps Margaret Beckett should have raised her concerns about Margaret Thatcher's funeral with Tony Blair and Gordon Brown when she was in government rather than go bleating to the media this afternoon.

    Perhaps she was out of the loop, or just ignored by the two Labour PMs.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Grandiose said:

    corporeal said:

    Grandiose said:

    The Salisbury Convention is by far the bigger loosening of the Lords' power when compared to the Parliament Acts which have only been used a half-dozen times in the last generation and threatened to any feasible extent in another dozen. The true effect of the Parliament Acts and Salisbury Convention lie in the democratic deficit's effect on the mindset of the upper chamber which is unlikely to change. In 1908-10, the Lords felt like it had a genuine power to over-rule to commons over various things including Irish Home Rule.

    The Salisbury convention came about because of the first parliament act, it may have been used rarely but it's the big stick in the background that is effective even without use.
    The Salisbury Convention cam about because of a fear of the sort of parliament that had been around before the 1911 Act.
    The Salisbury convention came about because of memories of the first parliament act where Lords opposition caused the Commons to slap it down. The fear of a repeat of that if the Lords opposed the Labour government with them getting slapped down again even harder.
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    edited April 2013
    "Perhaps she was out of the loop, or just ignored by the two Labour PMs."

    Perhaps she was. And like so many others who were ignored by Blair, over so many issues, that does not make her wrong.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    I have just seen a photo of the coffin leaving St Paul's and to my amazement the soldier leading it and in charge of the bearer-party was none other than Sergeant Major Billy Mott. I thought he would have retired long ago, but he is still hanging in there. He must surely be well into his fifties and the only veteran of the Falklands Campaign still serving, at least the only non-commissioned one.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    @Tim: It is quite possible that being at a funeral has reminded Osborne of occasions which are more personal to him, hence the tears. Who knows?

    He is entitled to be upset at a funeral. He was upset at this one.

    There is really nothing more to be said.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited April 2013
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited April 2013
    One of the voices complaining about the cost of Mrs Thatcher was the Bishop of Grantham.

    This month's Standpoint highlights how the south american catholic church had a mini-reformation to purge itself of priests identifying with party politics, rather than their christian vocation. Lessons there for UK based churches.

    "...explicitly banned the translation of Christian terms into Marxist ideology, while also challenging Catholics to develop a more authentic humanism of their own, including the "option for the poor" so beloved of priests working in Latin America, where the Church had traditionally been associated with extremes of social and economic inequality.

    On visits to the continent, John Paul reinforced his message by confronting, sometimes in person, those priests who persisted in their disobedience. The turning point came on the airport tarmac at Managua, Nicaragua, in 1983, when John Paul arrived to be greeted by the Sandinista government. Squaring up to Father Ernesto Cardenal, the minister of culture, the Pope wagged his finger and declared: "Regularise your position with the Church!" The spell of the Catholic Marxists was broken and they have been in retreat ever since. "

    http://standpointmag.co.uk/features-april-13-pope-francis-in-the-footsteps-of-st-francis-daniel-johnson-catholic-church
  • currystarcurrystar Posts: 1,171

    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 311
    3:20PM
    I have a bad feeling unemployment is heading towards 10% and there's not much that can be done about it.

    I would be very surprised if this happens, we currently have positions we cannot fill and the amount of construction work around this area is similar to 10 years ago
  • JamesKellyJamesKelly Posts: 1,348
    "The turning point came on the airport tarmac at Managua, Nicaragua, in 1983, when John Paul arrived to be greeted by the Sandinista government. Squaring up to Father Ernesto Cardenal, the minister of culture, the Pope wagged his finger and declared: "Regularise your position with the Church!" The spell of the Catholic Marxists was broken and they have been in retreat ever since."

    Well, except for the fact that the Sandanistas have been back in power in Nicaragua for several years.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548
    tim said:

    @Sam.

    In the case of Osborne he wasn't close to Thatcher, he barely knew her and is on record as saying he was too young to remember much about her period in power.
    His emotions are as valid as anyone elses,pro or anti who have been widely ridiculed on here for being too young to have an opinion still less express strong emotions.

    He was around 8 to 19 while she was in power so I imagine he remembers more about the time than he admitted on record (probably part of the de-Thatcherisation of the Tories mentioned earlier).

    I'm seven years younger than him and I remember some parts of it very distinctly. I remember that the IRA were trying to kill her and my dad. (They weren't specifically targeting my dad but I remember in the early 80s when we lived in Germany, dad was RAF, and BFBS used to have safety announcements, teaching people to check under their cars for bombs. I was 5 years old and I used to go out every morning and check under dad's car). We were on the same side as Maggie Thatcher and the Queen, who I thought were the two most important women in the world. I'm not sad about her death, it's probably a blessing for her - she was getting madder and lonelier, but I don't know how I would have reacted at her funeral; I can't say I wouldn't have shed a tear or two.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @dr_spyn

    Thanks for the link, Doc. Some interesting histories of past holders of the office. I knew Mott had made GSM, I just thought he would have been long retired by now.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    I can't say I wouldn't have shed a tear or two.

    The surprising thing about Mr Osborne though, is that he's from a faction within the parliamentary Conservative Party that would have opposed her.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,300
    I promised Nick P that I'd keep PB updated with my NHS experiance while I'm having my pre cancerous condition sorted.

    Today I had my pre-op assesment at the hospital. I has an ECG, blood tests, MRSA tests, blood pressure, you name it, I had it. The nurse (who was VERY experianced) tehn went through my entire medical history and the procedure I'll be having. The whole process took about 90 minutes and was very, very in-depth.

    An excellent NHS experience today.
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    edited April 2013
    <blockquote

    He was around 8 to 19 while she was in power so I imagine he remembers more about the time than he admitted on record (probably part of the de-Thatcherisation of the Tories mentioned earlier).
    EDIT: Reply to JonnyJimmy

    Spot on.
    Osborne is the same age as me, he was playing it down.

  • samsam Posts: 727
    tim said:

    @Sam.

    In the case of Osborne he wasn't close to Thatcher, he barely knew her and is on record as saying he was too young to remember much about her period in power.
    His emotions are as valid as anyone elses,pro or anti who have been widely ridiculed on here for being too young to have an opinion still less express strong emotions.

    Yes, I agree with your second point, but doesn't it invalidate the first? People often cry at films where the characters are fictional. I dont think it matters how well you know someone or if you met them
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    Sky News. US Secret Service announce Barry has been sent a letter with a white powder in the envelope.

    No, tim. The powder has been identified as ricin.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,300
    dr_spyn said:

    @Gin1138

    Hope all goes well for you.

    Thanks. :)

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    @Gin.
    "An excellent NHS experience today."

    That's good. I'm struggling to guess what the op is for. Are you having a general anaesthetic?

    Anyway good luck or break a leg depending on your superstition.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    If Labour fail to win a majority, then we could see some electoral reform I suppose.

    Perhaps Commons reform (without a referendum of course), Lords, and equalisation of boundaries (based on population).
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    As for George Osborne. What a funny little man.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    sam said:

    I just can't see why she had to have a big funeral paid for by the public. the only reason Blair agreed to it would have been because it almost guarantees the same honour for him, as no one could deny a Thrice election winning Leader that privilege now. (I take it that is the qualification)

    It depends on who is Prime Minister at the time, but if the future Prime Minister takes the view that Blair does not merit a quasi-State funeral (which I don't think he does), then it can be argued that Thatcher had one at least partly due to being the first woman as Prime Minister - and this then avoids creating a precedent.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    AndyJS said:

    I have a bad feeling unemployment is heading towards 10% and there's not much that can be done about it.

    What makes you say that?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited April 2013
    Highest unemployment for over a year. Thank God for Maggie's super-lavish funeral or as SeanT described it 'a morale-boosting knees-up for Tory England'. That'll take people's minds off their economic problems.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Roger said:

    Highest unemployment for over a year. Thank God for Maggie's super-lavish funeral. That'll take people's minds off their economic problems

    Fitting though. An economy in tatters, the poor being forced to bear the brunt whilst the rich live it up, and unemployment on the up.

    It's what Maggie would have wanted.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,969

    sam said:

    I just can't see why she had to have a big funeral paid for by the public. the only reason Blair agreed to it would have been because it almost guarantees the same honour for him, as no one could deny a Thrice election winning Leader that privilege now. (I take it that is the qualification)

    It depends on who is Prime Minister at the time, but if the future Prime Minister takes the view that Blair does not merit a quasi-State funeral (which I don't think he does), then it can be argued that Thatcher had one at least partly due to being the first woman as Prime Minister - and this then avoids creating a precedent.
    Did Walpole get a state funeral? Bit sexist if not :p
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Of Margaret Thatcher's first cabinet, 8 are alive and 14 are dead.
    Of the Liberal MPs elected in 1979, 3 are alive and 8 are dead.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    RobD said:

    sam said:

    I just can't see why she had to have a big funeral paid for by the public. the only reason Blair agreed to it would have been because it almost guarantees the same honour for him, as no one could deny a Thrice election winning Leader that privilege now. (I take it that is the qualification)

    It depends on who is Prime Minister at the time, but if the future Prime Minister takes the view that Blair does not merit a quasi-State funeral (which I don't think he does), then it can be argued that Thatcher had one at least partly due to being the first woman as Prime Minister - and this then avoids creating a precedent.
    Did Walpole get a state funeral? Bit sexist if not :p
    I think I'm correct in thinking that Walpole is thought of as the first Prime Minister only with hindsight, rather than recognised as such by his contemporaries.

    I think he might have been a bit happier with Houghton Hall than a state funeral anyway. At least he could enjoy the former while still alive.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    @Roger, I am sure your heart bleeds for the unemployed whilst you are sunning yourself abroad or queueing for the IVY.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,300
    Roger said:

    @Gin.
    "An excellent NHS experience today."

    That's good. I'm struggling to guess what the op is for. Are you having a general anaesthetic?

    Anyway good luck or break a leg depending on your superstition.

    Well, I don't want to bore PB with my ailments, but as you ask I've got a pre-cancerous lesion in my mouth (despite having never smoked and not being a heavy drinker)

    The lesion will be excised with a laser and yes, I've got to have a general anaesthetic, but I should only be in for the day (and maybe overnight)

  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Roger said:

    Highest unemployment for over a year. Thank God for Maggie's super-lavish funeral or as Sean described it 'a morale-boosting knees-up for Tory England'. That'll take people's minds off their economic problems.

    I make it June 2012

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10604117
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983


    Within the next two or three years same-sex marriage will no longer be controversial.

    You think? It will become very controversial in my family as relatives annoy the hell out of me by asking when I'm going to have one! Leave me in peace, say no to gay marriage.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,969
    GIN1138 said:



    Well, I don't want to bore PB with my ailments, but as you ask I've got a pre-cancerous lesion in my mouth (despite having never smoked and not being a heavy drinker)

    The lesion will be excised with a laser and yes, I've got to have a general anaesthetic, but I should only be in for the day (and maybe overnight)

    Eeep. I hope you make a speedy recovery!
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,300
    Have we had JackW's dispatch from St. Paul's yet? ;)
  • Neil said:


    You think? It will become very controversial in my family as relatives annoy the hell out of me by asking when I'm going to have one! Leave me in peace, say no to gay marriage.

    If, at a wedding, they start saying things like "It will be your turn next", just say the same to them at a funeral ;-)
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Neil said:


    You think? It will become very controversial in my family as relatives annoy the hell out of me by asking when I'm going to have one! Leave me in peace, say no to gay marriage.

    If, at a wedding, they start saying things like "It will be your turn next", just say the same to them at a funeral ;-)
    Most old folks I know are quite laid back about that prospect, and readily joke about it with each other all ready.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,850
    Best of luck, Mr. GIN.

    My best NHS experience was undoubtedly when I was about 15 and went to child's A&E, where I was tended to by a fantastically attractive blonde nurse.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Neil said:


    Within the next two or three years same-sex marriage will no longer be controversial.

    You think? It will become very controversial in my family as relatives annoy the hell out of me by asking when I'm going to have one! Leave me in peace, say no to gay marriage.

    Some of us already have civil partnerships. I'm potentially facing having to do the bloody thing all over again.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    tim said:

    @antifrank.

    I thought there were plans to allow you to upgrade it, I seem to remember Peter Bone ranting about it further undermining his marriage or something.

    Yes, that's possible. But you're not factoring in the views of my other half on the subject.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2013
    I've been impressed today by the even handed objective vituperation directed at Ed Miliband's driver for parking on a double yellow line as was directed at Osborne when his driver parked in a disabled space.....or not:

    http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/SLIDESHOW-Ed-Miliband-hits-campaign-trail-in-Cambridge-20130415160716.htm
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    antifrank said:

    I'm potentially facing having to do the bloody thing all over again.

    If the subject arises I advise saying that you are open to it .... but with another person ;)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Meanwhile, the New Statesman must have felt that there wasn't enough political news around, because it has manufactured an entirely artificial story based on polling on the strength of the very most recent polls:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/what-lies-behind-labours-shrinking-poll-lead

    I wonder what they would have written this time last week?
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Great that New Zealand has voted to legalise same sex marriage, but why did they spontaneously sing "Pokarekare Ana" instead of the national anthem "Aotearoa"?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22184232
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    @antifrank - But it would give you another opportunity to wear The Suit.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    @RichardNabavi The suit no longer fits (a casualty of The Diet). Fortunately, I have updated my sartorial collection, so I would have something equally memorable to mark the occasion.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,543
    GIN1138 said:

    I promised Nick P that I'd keep PB updated with my NHS experiance while I'm having my pre cancerous condition sorted.

    Today I had my pre-op assesment at the hospital. I has an ECG, blood tests, MRSA tests, blood pressure, you name it, I had it. The nurse (who was VERY experianced) tehn went through my entire medical history and the procedure I'll be having. The whole process took about 90 minutes and was very, very in-depth.

    An excellent NHS experience today.

    Thanks GIN and good luck with the next stage!

  • antifrank said:

    Meanwhile, the New Statesman must have felt that there wasn't enough political news around, because it has manufactured an entirely artificial story based on polling on the strength of the very most recent polls:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/what-lies-behind-labours-shrinking-poll-lead

    I wonder what they would have written this time last week?

    That seems a lot like my piece yesterday.

    Where I lead, the New Statesman follows ?

    I guess this my cue for some more Ed is crap threads right?

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    Roger said:

    Highest unemployment for over a year. Thank God for Maggie's super-lavish funeral or as SeanT described it 'a morale-boosting knees-up for Tory England'. That'll take people's minds off their economic problems.

    Roger

    You must pay more attention in class. School is not just about playing sports.

    The number of adults (16-64) in employment remained almost static when compared using the ONS's main comparison (Current three months - Dec 2012 to Feb 2013 - over previous three months - Sep - Nov 2012). There is a tiny fall of 2,000.

    So the increase in unemployment cannot come from lost jobs.

    So where do the 70,000 additional unemployed come from?

    It comes from more adults (16-64) being classified as "economically active" by the ONS. The major part is more women coming back into the potential workforce after looking after children or home (45,000 women out of 57,000 of both sexes).

    So the increase in unemployment is near-matched by a corresponding decrease in the total of the "economically inactive" in the economy. The economically inactive numbered 2.06 million the lowest figure since 1993.

    So employment is only 2,000 short of its highest level ever and the economically inactive at its lowest level since the early nineties. Hardly an "economic problem"!

    And then when you throw in the fact that the number on Job-Seekers Allowance has fallen by 7,000 over the same periods, there really isn't much to complain about at all in the Labour Stats published today.

    You could rightfully claim that the growth rate in employment seen over the last half of 2012 has slowed but otherwise the news on employment is broadly good.






  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    tim said:

    @RichardNabavi

    Most of the rise seems to have been under Blair and Major.

    Of course. The Thatcher reforms gave us quarter of a century of prosperity.

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Are we nearly there yet? Thank gawd for that.
  • Antifrank.

    If you do get married.

    Can I DJ at your wedding ?
  • Antifrank.

    If you do get married.

    Can I DJ at your wedding ?
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Ed is going to South Shields tomorrow to campaign for Emma Double Surname.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    @AveryLP

    "It comes from more adults (16-64) being classified as "economically active" by the ONS. The major part is more women coming back into the potential workforce after looking after children or home (45,000 women out of 57,000 of both sexes)."

    Indeed, Mr. Avery, or as the Telegraph headline has it, "Stay-at-home mums bear brunt of rise in unemployment". The article underneath the headline is just as awful.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Ed is going to South Shields tomorrow to campaign for Emma Double Surname.

    Do you think he'll park on a double yellow line?
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Good evening. I went to Maggie's funeral, kinda, as I had a business meeting nearby that I could not move, despite my best efforts. I was there when the horses went past. It was all very eerie, because there was hardly anyone around. The Strand was desolate, save for loads of coppers and the odd few onlookers. Totally unexpected. I was thankful though, and I was early for my meeting.
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Carola said:

    Are we nearly there yet? Thank gawd for that.

    Just the evening news and tomorrow's papers to get through.

    One last push, we can do this!
  • carlcarl Posts: 750
    Bobajob said:

    Good evening. I went to Maggie's funeral, kinda, as I had a business meeting nearby that I could not move, despite my best efforts. I was there when the horses went past. It was all very eerie, because there was hardly anyone around. The Strand was desolate, save for loads of coppers and the odd few onlookers. Totally unexpected. I was thankful though, and I was early for my meeting.

    Not that unexpected. Who in their right mind would line the streets to mourn Maggie bloomin Thatcher? Even if they liked her.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    "You must pay more attention in class. School is not just about playing sports."

    Foolish of me to take notice of the BBC who announced on several bulletins "Unemployment at it's highest level for over a year up 70,000 that's 7.9% of the workforce"

    Perhaps I should have phoned the BBC and asked for a private consultation with Stephanie Flanders and Robert Peston.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    tim said:

    @RichardNabavi

    Check out this graph of incapacity benefit claimants since 1979 if you want to know where the North Sea oil money went.

    Page 8

    http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pathways-presentation.pdf

    It sats heartless Labour shortchanged millions.
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    (from the previous thread)

    Someone commented that the eight coffin-bearers did a good job of lifting and carrying the coffin through the low doors and up the steps etc. because it would have been quite heavy. Out of interest, what would it have weighed (approximately)? PB is the land of experts, so presumably someone will have an idea. I'm assuming it's a lot more than just the primary contents, which would only be about 7 stone or whatever.

    Someone else mentioned seeing a few confused foreign tourists, who presumably didn't realise what was going on. It reminds me of when I went to watch outside the church at the funeral of the actress Wendy Richard in 2009. I was explaining what the crowds were to a few passers-by who didn't know that the funeral was happening. The most interesting was an Algerian man who asked me what the crowd was for, but he had no idea what "EastEnders" was or who Wendy Richard was. I explained to him that she was a very famous actress on a TV show who had died of cancer at the age of 65. Most of our conversation was in French, because his English wasn't very good. My French is limited, but I guessed that French would have been his second language as well as being mine - so we managed. Just as I was talking to him, Barbara Windsor arrived, and there was a great kerfuffle of photographers rushing to get pictures. Despite not knowing who any of the famous celebrities were, he was a bit excited by proxy at the knowledge that she was "famous" but without knowing who she was.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2013
    Some useless facts:

    There are 75 MPs currently under 40 years of age.
    Con 34, Lab 32, LD 8, PC 1.

    Percentages:
    Con: 11.1%
    Lab: 12.4%
    LD: 14.0%
    PC: 33.3%
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Margaret Thatcher's first cabinet:

    14 dead
    Humphrey Atkins (1986)
    Christopher Soames (1987)
    Angus Maude (1993)
    Keith Joseph (1994)
    William Whitelaw (1999)
    Lord Hailsham (2001)
    George Younger (2003)
    Mark Carlisle (2005)
    Ian Gilmour (2007)
    John Biffen (2007)
    Francis Pym (2008)
    Peter Walker (2010)
    Norman St John-Stevas (2012)
    Margaret Thatcher (2013)

    8 Alive
    Lord Carrington (93)
    Patrick Jenkin (86)
    Geoffrey Howe (86)
    Jim Prior (85)
    John Nott (81)
    Michael Heseltine (80)
    Nicholas Edwards (79)
    David Howell (77)
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    tim said:

    @RichardNabavi

    Check out this graph of incapacity benefit claimants since 1979 if you want to know where the North Sea oil money went.

    Page 8

    http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/pathways-presentation.pdf

    You think she was too generous with incapacity benefits? You might have a point.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited April 2013
    Ed is going to South Shields tomorrow to campaign for Emma DoubleYellow-LIne.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,927
    Evening all :)

    Just in from my day's work having avoided all mention of funerals Prime Ministerial and picked up on Simon's interesting comments.

    I must confess that I'm not thinking of May 8th 2015 at this moment but positioning or putting down a marker or two is part of the warp and weft of politics so the comments merit some response from a fellow Lib Dem.

    I suspect that not only will the two main parties be wary of entering into "Coalition" (as defined by the current arrangement) but we will be as always. I've always thought that we need 40-45 seats to have any hope of something akin to waht we have now (Ministers in the Cabinet). In the not unlikely event we fall below 40 MPs and yet still hold the balance, I suspect we'll be looking at more of a Supply and Confidence arrangement but who with?

    As far as I know, the pre-2010 formula remains the same - first refusal to the party with most votes but while that was easy last time, it might not be this time. It's perfectly possible to imagine the Conservatives winning more seats but Labour having more seats. That complication aside, our options are also constrained by whether either of the other parties wants to talk to us.

    In 2010, Cameron could have walked away and formed a minority Government - he chose not to and created the conditions for the Coalition. 2015 may be very different and Nick Clegg (or whoever) may be left waiting for a call which never comes.

    Were that to happen, that would neatly solve all the problems and resolve all the dilemmas. The Party could easily go into Opposition and regroup/rebuild/redefine and I consider that the most likely option. IF we got a very similar result to 2010, then Coalition 2 remains an option - if Labour is close to the line and Ed Milliband made the call, it would be difficult to say no but the real problem for the party comes if that call is based on Labour winning say forty seats but still finishing behind the Tories in terms of votes.

    The dilemma comes if Cameron says no deal and tries to carry on as a minority and Ed M calls offering a deal on the basis of being able to form a majority in the Commons
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    @Tim

    You've shown correlation but not necessarily causation.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013

    @AveryLP

    "It comes from more adults (16-64) being classified as "economically active" by the ONS. The major part is more women coming back into the potential workforce after looking after children or home (45,000 women out of 57,000 of both sexes)."

    Indeed, Mr. Avery, or as the Telegraph headline has it, "Stay-at-home mums bear brunt of rise in unemployment". The article underneath the headline is just as awful.

    @HurstLlama & @Roger

    It is not just the Telegraph. Roger points out the misleading BBC headline and Sky News have been just as bad though I have noticed the later bulletins are being toned down.

    It doesn't take long to read the ONS Labour Statistics bulletin where the true position is fully explained.

    Conspiracy or laziness? I suspect the latter although a pattern of attacking the government on the economy without thinking or researching the facts is well established.

    But when, or if, the MSM narrative changes to "economic recovery" the errors will still happen but be reversed in terms of political bias. Bad news will be reported as good.just as good news is reported as bad today.

    Grumble over.

  • Bobajob said:

    Good evening. I went to Maggie's funeral, kinda, as I had a business meeting nearby that I could not move, despite my best efforts. I was there when the horses went past. It was all very eerie, because there was hardly anyone around. The Strand was desolate, save for loads of coppers and the odd few onlookers. Totally unexpected. I was thankful though, and I was early for my meeting.

    I was in front of the Law Courts, I would call it more than a few onlookers.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/95017929@N02/8657635981/in/photostream

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @HurstLlama

    Telegraph mentions that Major Nicky Mott and his older brother Garrison Sergeant Major Bill Mott, led the bearer party at today's funeral for Mrs Thatcher.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/margaret-thatcher/10001325/Margaret-Thatcher-Falklands-brothers-lead-pallbearers.html
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    tim said:

    @AndyJS

    Trebling of benefit dependey was an accident but a rise in GDP relative to France for 6 years years is Thatchers legacy for the next quarter century, yeah right.

    LOL well it's only what you'd claim if the roles were reversed tim, be fair.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300

    Bobajob said:

    Good evening. I went to Maggie's funeral, kinda, as I had a business meeting nearby that I could not move, despite my best efforts. I was there when the horses went past. It was all very eerie, because there was hardly anyone around. The Strand was desolate, save for loads of coppers and the odd few onlookers. Totally unexpected. I was thankful though, and I was early for my meeting.

    I was in front of the Law Courts, I would call it more than a few onlookers.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/95017929@N02/8657635981/in/photostream

    Works well in the light box - put a few more 'tags' in and the view totals should rise.

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    carl said:

    Bobajob said:

    Good evening. I went to Maggie's funeral, kinda, as I had a business meeting nearby that I could not move, despite my best efforts. I was there when the horses went past. It was all very eerie, because there was hardly anyone around. The Strand was desolate, save for loads of coppers and the odd few onlookers. Totally unexpected. I was thankful though, and I was early for my meeting.

    Not that unexpected. Who in their right mind would line the streets to mourn Maggie bloomin Thatcher? Even if they liked her.
    True enough, I was expecting a scrum. But there was nothing, no supporters, no protesters, just a few people taking pictures, and loads of cops. It was spooky.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2013
    I'm starting to think a right-wing nutter might be the most likely culprit re. Boston now that a ricin letter has been sent to Obama - either a guns fanatic and/or white supremacist:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22190031
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    AndyJS said:

    I'm starting to think a right-wing nutter might be the most likely culprit re. Boston now that a ricin letter has been sent to Obama - either a guns fanatic and/or white supremacist:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22190031

    Agree -AQ would likely have claimed responsibility very quickly..

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Bobajob said:

    Good evening. I went to Maggie's funeral, kinda, as I had a business meeting nearby that I could not move, despite my best efforts. I was there when the horses went past. It was all very eerie, because there was hardly anyone around. The Strand was desolate, save for loads of coppers and the odd few onlookers. Totally unexpected. I was thankful though, and I was early for my meeting.

    I was in front of the Law Courts, I would call it more than a few onlookers.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/95017929@N02/8657635981/in/photostream

    You can't go to anything now without people blocking your view by holding up their phones... in fact, they're looking at whatever it is they've gone to see ON their phones as they film it. Why bother? They're not looking at the event, they're looking at their phone. There will be better footage on tv or youtube. I especially don't get it at gigs. *gripefest*
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    dr_spyn said:

    Bobajob said:

    Good evening. I went to Maggie's funeral, kinda, as I had a business meeting nearby that I could not move, despite my best efforts. I was there when the horses went past. It was all very eerie, because there was hardly anyone around. The Strand was desolate, save for loads of coppers and the odd few onlookers. Totally unexpected. I was thankful though, and I was early for my meeting.

    I was in front of the Law Courts, I would call it more than a few onlookers.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/95017929@N02/8657635981/in/photostream

    Works well in the light box - put a few more 'tags' in and the view totals should rise.

    Do you live in London? There would have been more people in that area on a normal day. I'm not making a politcal point here as much as one about crowd-scaring- if you predict chaos, no-one comes. As we saw during the Olympics.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,963
    Ha! Mum is such a lefty - she just shouted at me for reading PB.com defending Thatcher's record at the dinner table!

    She even blames her for my current unemployment!
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    tim said:

    @Carola

    Almost as daft as the thumb burns from holding up lighters at gigs.

    Stupid idea that one.

    They just wave their phones now. With images of flames on them. Or something. Or glowsticks.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited April 2013
    Sky New: Boston bombing suspect arrested.

    It looks to be a man captured on CCTV videos carrying and dropping a black bag at the restaurant where the second bomb was detonated.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Carola said:

    Bobajob said:

    Good evening. I went to Maggie's funeral, kinda, as I had a business meeting nearby that I could not move, despite my best efforts. I was there when the horses went past. It was all very eerie, because there was hardly anyone around. The Strand was desolate, save for loads of coppers and the odd few onlookers. Totally unexpected. I was thankful though, and I was early for my meeting.

    I was in front of the Law Courts, I would call it more than a few onlookers.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/95017929@N02/8657635981/in/photostream

    You can't go to anything now without people blocking your view by holding up their phones... in fact, they're looking at whatever it is they've gone to see ON their phones as they film it. Why bother? They're not looking at the event, they're looking at their phone. There will be better footage on tv or youtube. I especially don't get it at gigs. *gripefest*
    Correct. Same applies to people who come to town and spend all their time taking pictures of "the sights". Buy a postcard.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,441
    tim said:

    @Alanbrooke

    Actually it isn't, I'd say that the labour market reforms had a beneficial effect over the next 25 years but Thatchers cancer of benefit dependency had a terrible long term effect

    half those years were Tony's years, and while you have a point on the rise of benefits under Mrs T, Tony didn't do anything to unpick it, he consolidated it. Score draw regrettably.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Plenty of people in the picture - look at the windows, not a lot of room for more on the pavements either.

    tags -Margaret Thatcher Funeral, 17 April 2013, The Strand.
  • Carola said:

    tim said:

    @Carola

    Almost as daft as the thumb burns from holding up lighters at gigs.

    Stupid idea that one.

    They just wave their phones now. With images of flames on them. Or something. Or glowsticks.
    There's a zippo app for the iPhone that allows you to do that.

    I used it at the Chesney Hawkes gig last year.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    Bobajob said:

    Good evening. I went to Maggie's funeral, kinda, as I had a business meeting nearby that I could not move, despite my best efforts. I was there when the horses went past. It was all very eerie, because there was hardly anyone around. The Strand was desolate, save for loads of coppers and the odd few onlookers. Totally unexpected. I was thankful though, and I was early for my meeting.

    I was in front of the Law Courts, I would call it more than a few onlookers.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/95017929@N02/8657635981/in/photostream

    Looks like the men in grey suits have come to bury Margaret, Hertsmere.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Carola said:

    Bobajob said:

    Good evening. I went to Maggie's funeral, kinda, as I had a business meeting nearby that I could not move, despite my best efforts. I was there when the horses went past. It was all very eerie, because there was hardly anyone around. The Strand was desolate, save for loads of coppers and the odd few onlookers. Totally unexpected. I was thankful though, and I was early for my meeting.

    I was in front of the Law Courts, I would call it more than a few onlookers.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/95017929@N02/8657635981/in/photostream

    You can't go to anything now without people blocking your view by holding up their phones... in fact, they're looking at whatever it is they've gone to see ON their phones as they film it. Why bother? They're not looking at the event, they're looking at their phone. There will be better footage on tv or youtube. I especially don't get it at gigs. *gripefest*
    Many moons ago I went on "Butterfield's Indian Railway Tour" where Ashley Butterfield, the tour leader often wondered who was having the holiday - the traveller or their camera - which the "camera wallah" was obligingly transporting between the many sights....

  • @bobajob
    No, I live in Hertsmere.
    It was 2 deep along both sides when I got there just before 9.30.
    By the time Maggie went passed it was 4 to 5 deep.
    I thought that it was a decent turnout for a Wednesday morning.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,397
    Thatcher Funeral seemed to be done extremely well overall, good turnout and only a few naysayers. Watching the highlights now on BBC2
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,397
    The moment New Zealand's parliament passed gay marriage into law a little earlier
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22184232
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Is it coincidence that the Queen has only attended funerals for Tory Prime Ministers? I suspect not. Until we become a republic nothing meaningful will change. Question to the Scots; If you become independent are you going to ditch the Tory Royal family once and for all?
  • Roger said:

    Is it coincidence that the Queen has only attended funerals for Tory Prime Ministers? I suspect not. Until we become a republic nothing meaningful will change. Question to the Scots; If you become independent are you going to ditch the Tory Royal family once and for all?

    An Independent Scotland will be retaining the Tory Royal Family.

    If the Nats can see the wisdom of the Tory Royal family, surely you can see that wisdom too?

    Huzzah for the Tory Royal Family.
This discussion has been closed.