Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Undefined discussion subject.

SystemSystem Posts: 12,171
edited August 2019 in General
«134

Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited August 2019
    First like Boris.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    As if the public has a clue what will be the outcome of any of those options.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    The voters are getting ornery....and backing Boris.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Even by the standards of the Tory Party that is a criminally heartless comment.
    No it isn't, as sleeping in a converted shipping container with a bed and room is better than sleeping on the streets.


    Once again action with the Tories, whinging with Labour
    As you are only going to consider the number of people seeping rough: The record under the Conservatives regardng numbers of people sleeping rough has been a scandal (1979-1997 and 2010-). The Labour government had a specific policy to move rough sleepers into some kind of sheltered accommodation.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Obvious outlier. Change UK has put on an infinite increase from 0 to 1%.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    Which of the following scenarios do you favour most?
    (1) Leave No Deal: 23
    (2) Leave TM Deal: 9
    (3) Leave but stay in SM/CU: 13
    (4) Remain/Revoke A50: 33

    Not surprised don't know was 22%! Personally I would go for 2, 3, 1, 4, most days.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    A hostel is not a home!
    Nor is a flat on some measures, they are accommodation though
    So you agree a hostel is not a home. Someone staying in a hostel for homeless people is homeless.
    No they are not for that period as they are in accomodation with a roof over their heads
    Hold on! You say that a hostel is not a home but people staying in a hostel are not homeless?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    dixiedean said:

    Obvious outlier. Change UK has put on an infinite increase from 0 to 1%.

    Do they still exist? Are they an actual thing after the defections to the Lib Dems and the even more independent grouping? I will be amazed if they have any candidates who are not sitting MPs and maybe not even many of them.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Loving wikipedia treating the UKIP leadership change like it's still a relevant factor that might explain stepwise movements in polling.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    55 is the largest Fibonacci number that is also a triangular number and more importantly it is bigger than 50.

    So if we are picking numbers at random, why not? Me? I would have gone for 53 or 59... :D
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Only 23% are in favour of dropping out without a safety net. Conservatives are just so stupid!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    edited August 2019
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    A hostel is not a home!
    Nor is a flat on some measures, they are accommodation though
    So you agree a hostel is not a home. Someone staying in a hostel for homeless people is homeless.
    No they are not for that period as they are in accomodation with a roof over their heads
    Hold on! You say that a hostel is not a home but people staying in a hostel are not homeless?
    It can be a home as it has a roof as per the synonym on the dictionary definition on the last thread
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    55 is the largest Fibonacci number that is also a triangular number and more importantly it is bigger than 50.

    So if we are picking numbers at random, why not? Me? I would have gone for 53 or 59... :D
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interesting_number_paradox
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    55 is the largest Fibonacci number that is also a triangular number and more importantly it is bigger than 50.

    So if we are picking numbers at random, why not? Me? I would have gone for 53 or 59... :D
    Don't answer if this is too complicated for barely numerate people like me but how can you be confident that an infinite chain like Fibonacci numbers doesn't have larger triangular numbers in it?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    edited August 2019
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    Apologies 45% combining all the Leave options but still 12% more than revoke and remain
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Ah, the gold standard.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Even by the standards of the Tory Party that is a criminally heartless comment.
    No it isn't, as sleeping in a converted shipping container with a bed and room is better than sleeping on the streets.


    Once again action with the Tories, whinging with Labour
    As you are only going to consider the number of people seeping rough: The record under the Conservatives regardng numbers of people sleeping rough has been a scandal (1979-1997 and 2010-). The Labour government had a specific policy to move rough sleepers into some kind of sheltered accommodation.

    As the current Tory government is now doing anyway
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    Apologies 45% combining all the Leave options but still 12% more than revoke and remain
    Desperate stuff from Comical Ali
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    eristdoof said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    55 is the largest Fibonacci number that is also a triangular number and more importantly it is bigger than 50.

    So if we are picking numbers at random, why not? Me? I would have gone for 53 or 59... :D
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interesting_number_paradox
    What about politicians? I would hate to think that the paradox proves they are all interesting...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    Apologies 45% combining all the Leave options but still 12% more than revoke and remain
    But you are still adding things together which may not be accurate. Those results are equally:-

    Leave (No or TM Deal) - 32%
    Have a relationship with the EU - 46%

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Also from Kantar backing for second referendum
    Should the final deal be put to public vote:

    Yes: 52
    No: 29
    DK: 19
    This is a bit tricksy because it doesn't say what alternative to the deal the public get to vote on. If you support Remain you probably want to vote on rejecting it and revoking, whereas some of the people who support No Deal probably want to vote on rejecting it and leaving without it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    Apologies 45% combining all the Leave options but still 12% more than revoke and remain
    But you are still adding things together which may not be accurate. Those results are equally:-

    Leave (No or TM Deal) - 32%
    Have a relationship with the EU - 46%

    Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union would still be leaving the EU as per the referendum question, however most Remainers prefer remaining in the EU to that and most Leavers prefer No Deal or at most the Withdrawal Agreement, it may be the median option but it is not necessarily the majority option
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    I still can’t square the Brexit attitude to the voting intention in this survey.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    The reliability of recalled 2017 vote is becoming a huge issue in polling methodology. It is noticeable that the three firms reporting big Conservative leads in August all have mechanisms that can either adjust for identified false 2017 recall amongst their panel (YouGov, Kantar) or use other means of weighting that avoid the issue of false recall (Ipsos MORI).

    Kantar's adjustments for false recall increased the Conservative lead from 8% to 14%. This from Kantar:

    "We have re-analysed all the polls we have conducted since the last general election to identify how reports of voting behaviour have changed since June 2017. This study found a decline in the probability that a 2017 Labour voter will now report having voted Labour in that election. If the outcomes from this study are ignored when we weight our data, 2017 Labour voters will be over-represented in the sample. Consequently, we now incorporate the results from this study when constructing the target political profile we weight our sample to. Without this change to our approach, the headline voting intentions would have been Conservative (40%), Labour (32%), Lib Dems (15%) and Brexit Party (5%)."
  • DougSeal said:

    I still can’t square the Brexit attitude to the voting intention in this survey.

    This is probably because you are trying to apply reason.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    Apologies 45% combining all the Leave options but still 12% more than revoke and remain
    The flaw in your reasoning is so obvious even you should be able to see it.
  • HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    Apologies 45% combining all the Leave options but still 12% more than revoke and remain
    Desperate stuff from Comical Ali
    Knock it off. He admitted an error and apologised. You have been posting here long enough to appreciate how rare an occurrence this is on PB.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    55 is the largest Fibonacci number that is also a triangular number and more importantly it is bigger than 50.

    So if we are picking numbers at random, why not? Me? I would have gone for 53 or 59... :D
    Both prime, which makes me question how random your random is.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    I'm puzzled by the disparity between the Tories' 42% and the derisory 23% who favour No Deal, especially since No Deal appears to be the outcome Boris and his government are championing with relish. Might it be that Boris is still on probation, and people simply regard his No Deal rhetoric as an acceptable ruse to secure a deal? Dangerous if so - there are a lot of people out there being groomed for disappointment and, dare I say it, a sense of betrayal.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?
    Apologies 45% combining all the Leave options but still 12% more than revoke and remain
    But you are still adding things together which may not be accurate. Those results are equally:-
    Leave (No or TM Deal) - 32%
    Have a relationship with the EU - 46%
    Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union would still be leaving the EU as per the referendum question, however most Remainers prefer remaining in the EU to that and most Leavers prefer No Deal or at most the Withdrawal Agreement, it may be the median option but it is not necessarily the majority option
    But the Conservatives under ABDPJohnson are hell-bent on leaving the EU without a safety net of any kind. This is why I think the Conservatives are stupid, and destined to lose every election they fight.
  • CurrystardogCurrystardog Posts: 110
    edited August 2019
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Even by the standards of the Tory Party that is a criminally heartless comment.
    No it isn't, as sleeping in a converted shipping container with a bed and room is better than sleeping on the streets.


    Once again action with the Tories, whinging with Labour
    As you are only going to consider the number of people seeping rough: The record under the Conservatives regardng numbers of people sleeping rough has been a scandal (1979-1997 and 2010-). The Labour government had a specific policy to move rough sleepers into some kind of sheltered accommodation.

    Im sorry but that is complete nonsense, unless an individual had a "Priority Need" for Housing then Councils had no responsibility. There was no "Sheltered Accomodation" or anything similar under Labour.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815
    re post at end of last thread by Rural Voter and comments. I am in the same boat. Same set up and I can access all other sites I want to go to. The only thing I can't do is access the threads on PB. I have to use another computer. Only the last few weeks this has been on and off. For the last week it is a constant failure.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    Apologies 45% combining all the Leave options but still 12% more than revoke and remain
    The flaw in your reasoning is so obvious even you should be able to see it.
    Thank you
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216
    @DavidL You're asking if ∃ x(n) = x(n - 1) + x(n - 2) = m(m + 1)/2 = y(m) > 55

    Spookily 55 is the 10th triangular and fibonacci number.

    x(10) = x(9) + x(8) = 34 + 21 = 10(10 + 1)/2 = y(10) = 55

    I suspect that has something to do with the proof but not sure what.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Ishmael_Z said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    55 is the largest Fibonacci number that is also a triangular number and more importantly it is bigger than 50.

    So if we are picking numbers at random, why not? Me? I would have gone for 53 or 59... :D
    Both prime, which makes me question how random your random is.
    Indeed they are both prime, unlike all those other numbers (Splitters!) but I may randomly choose either.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    edited August 2019
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?
    Apologies 45% combining all the Leave options but still 12% more than revoke and remain
    But you are still adding things together which may not be accurate. Those results are equally:-
    Leave (No or TM Deal) - 32%
    Have a relationship with the EU - 46%
    Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union would still be leaving the EU as per the referendum question, however most Remainers prefer remaining in the EU to that and most Leavers prefer No Deal or at most the Withdrawal Agreement, it may be the median option but it is not necessarily the majority option
    But the Conservatives under ABDPJohnson are hell-bent on leaving the EU without a safety net of any kind. This is why I think the Conservatives are stupid, and destined to lose every election they fight.
    They aren't as they have most of the No Deal vote and most of the Leave with May Deal vote.

    The LDs now have most of the Revoke and Remain vote leaving Labour with maybe most of the Leave but stay in SM and Customs Union vote and a minority of the Revoke and Remain vote but there are only 13% for SM and CU to 32% for Leave with No Deal or May's Deal and 33% for Revoke and Remain
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616

    I'm puzzled by the disparity between the Tories' 42% and the derisory 23% who favour No Deal, especially since No Deal appears to be the outcome Boris and his government are championing with relish. Might it be that Boris is still on probation, and people simply regard his No Deal rhetoric as an acceptable ruse to secure a deal? Dangerous if so - there are a lot of people out there being groomed for disappointment and, dare I say it, a sense of betrayal.

    Tories mopping up the Don't Knows?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    !. You have to be homeless to stay in the hostel.
    2. If you are staying in a hostel, you are not homeless.
    3. The hostel must therefore stand empty.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815
    HYUFD I think you are being perverse. I think it is clear to everyone the difference between a home and accommodation. When I go on holiday, make a trip, a student in halls, prisoner in a cell, etc, etc I am in accommodation. None of these are 'homes'. Clearly people sleeping rough are a higher priority than those not sleeping rough, but equally people should not, where possible, be in temporary accommodation. They should have a permanent residence. What normal people call their home.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    !. You have to be homeless to stay in the hostel.
    2. If you are staying in a hostel, you are not homeless.
    3. The hostel must therefore stand empty.

    No as it does 2 to create accomodation for 1
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?
    Apologies 45% combining all the Leave options but still 12% more than revoke and remain
    But you are still adding things together which may not be accurate. Those results are equally:-
    Leave (No or TM Deal) - 32%
    Have a relationship with the EU - 46%
    Staying in the Single Market and Customs Union would still be leaving the EU as per the referendum question, however most Remainers prefer remaining in the EU to that and most Leavers prefer No Deal or at most the Withdrawal Agreement, it may be the median option but it is not necessarily the majority option
    But the Conservatives under ABDPJohnson are hell-bent on leaving the EU without a safety net of any kind. This is why I think the Conservatives are stupid, and destined to lose every election they fight.
    They aren't as they have most of the No Deal vote and much of the Leave with May Deal vote.
    The LDs now have most of the Revoke and Remain vote leaving Labour with maybe most of the Leave but stay in SM and Customs Union vote and a minority of the Revoke and Remain vote but there are only 13% of those compared to 32% for Leave with No Deal or May's Deal and 33% for Revoke and Remain
    That sounds a bit complicated, Mr HYDYF. I suggest you take it back to your Con HQ syndicate to clarify your argument.

    The "Leave with May Deal" is by definition not a "drop out of the EU without a safety net of any kind" arrangement. Not that many people would be so foolish. Therefore the ABDPJohnson project is a loser.
  • kjh said:

    HYUFD I think you are being perverse. I think it is clear to everyone the difference between a home and accommodation. When I go on holiday, make a trip, a student in halls, prisoner in a cell, etc, etc I am in accommodation. None of these are 'homes'. Clearly people sleeping rough are a higher priority than those not sleeping rough, but equally people should not, where possible, be in temporary accommodation. They should have a permanent residence. What normal people call their home.

    The key feature is whether an individual has a priroty need for housing under the terms of the Housing Act. An 18 year old pregnant girl living at home with her parents and whose parents ask her to leave would have a priroty need for housing and the Council would have to house her that day. A man sleeping rough for 5 years with no significant medical conditions or being a care/armed services leaver would have absoultely no priority for housing. Mad I know but that is the way it is.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    I'm puzzled by the disparity between the Tories' 42% and the derisory 23% who favour No Deal, especially since No Deal appears to be the outcome Boris and his government are championing with relish. Might it be that Boris is still on probation, and people simply regard his No Deal rhetoric as an acceptable ruse to secure a deal? Dangerous if so - there are a lot of people out there being groomed for disappointment and, dare I say it, a sense of betrayal.

    This is the most sensible explanation I have seen to explain why anybody who is not in the 23% no deal group would support the Tory’s. They believe no deal is project fear to make the EU give way and also that Johnson said it was a one in a million chance that we leave without a deal. If and when chickens come home to roost and we are in the aftermath of a bad no deal then they will be lucky to poll 23%
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    nichomar said:

    I'm puzzled by the disparity between the Tories' 42% and the derisory 23% who favour No Deal, especially since No Deal appears to be the outcome Boris and his government are championing with relish. Might it be that Boris is still on probation, and people simply regard his No Deal rhetoric as an acceptable ruse to secure a deal? Dangerous if so - there are a lot of people out there being groomed for disappointment and, dare I say it, a sense of betrayal.

    This is the most sensible explanation I have seen to explain why anybody who is not in the 23% no deal group would support the Tory’s. They believe no deal is project fear to make the EU give way and also that Johnson said it was a one in a million chance that we leave without a deal. If and when chickens come home to roost and we are in the aftermath of a bad no deal then they will be lucky to poll 23%
    I think they’ll do a little better than that, but the crucial element that there are theoretical deal supporters who will be disappointed and that will have an impact is a relevant one.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited August 2019

    I'm puzzled by the disparity between the Tories' 42% and the derisory 23% who favour No Deal, especially since No Deal appears to be the outcome Boris and his government are championing with relish. Might it be that Boris is still on probation, and people simply regard his No Deal rhetoric as an acceptable ruse to secure a deal? Dangerous if so - there are a lot of people out there being groomed for disappointment and, dare I say it, a sense of betrayal.

    Very easy to understand. For example @HYUFD says he is a Tory. But he vehemently dislikes the idea of a no deal brexit. Which is the flagship Tory policy.

    So this number/discrepancy is of those Tories who have not yet realised, for likely self denial reasons, that they, like @HYUFD, are not actually Tories.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,573
    edited August 2019

    I'm puzzled by the disparity between the Tories' 42% and the derisory 23% who favour No Deal, especially since No Deal appears to be the outcome Boris and his government are championing with relish. Might it be that Boris is still on probation, and people simply regard his No Deal rhetoric as an acceptable ruse to secure a deal? Dangerous if so - there are a lot of people out there being groomed for disappointment and, dare I say it, a sense of betrayal.

    Tories mopping up the Don't Knows?
    Government policy is unambiguous that it wants a deal. No deal people (wrong in my opinion) will back the Tories as both the best - probably only - chance of leaving at all, and certainly the only chance of leaving with their first preference. Some No Deal people probably have limited rationality, but most would put leaving with a deal ahead of Remain/Revoke etc.

    One other point. The data on final vote. Usually most people say yes to any question asking if they want a choice on something, with the famous exception of questions about the place of HM the Queen in our public life, where they don't (and quite right too IMO). I suspect the answer would be different if phrased as 'Second Referendum'.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    A very interesting article about traffic jams.

    https://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-jams
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,573
    He is putting parody artists and satirists out of business.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Pulpstar said:

    @DavidL You're asking if ∃ x(n) = x(n - 1) + x(n - 2) = m(m + 1)/2 = y(m) > 55

    Spookily 55 is the 10th triangular and fibonacci number.

    x(10) = x(9) + x(8) = 34 + 21 = 10(10 + 1)/2 = y(10) = 55

    I suspect that has something to do with the proof but not sure what.

    I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of this theorem which this website is too small to contain.

    However you can find it here: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.388.3006&rep=rep1&type=pdf
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    He is not the Messiah, he is just a naughty boy...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    That is seriously worrying. We know Trump loves those who flatter him.
    There is a significant section of the Evangelical base who consider Trump to be the literal fulfilment of prophecy signifying the final battle of the End Times leading to the Second Coming and Judgment Day.
    He seems to be buying into this.
    And I am quite serious here.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,387
    TOPPING said:

    I'm puzzled by the disparity between the Tories' 42% and the derisory 23% who favour No Deal, especially since No Deal appears to be the outcome Boris and his government are championing with relish. Might it be that Boris is still on probation, and people simply regard his No Deal rhetoric as an acceptable ruse to secure a deal? Dangerous if so - there are a lot of people out there being groomed for disappointment and, dare I say it, a sense of betrayal.

    Very easy to understand. For example @HYUFD says he is a Tory. But he vehemently dislikes the idea of a no deal brexit. Which is the flagship Tory policy.

    So this number/discrepancy is of those Tories who have not yet realised, for likely self denial reasons, that they, like @HYUFD, are not actually Tories.
    Maybe Kantar got the data from 'which is your preferred supermarket' mixed up with their voting data. Whereas I can quite believe each of their categories on their own when compared the results seem incongruous.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Pulpstar said:

    @DavidL You're asking if ∃ x(n) = x(n - 1) + x(n - 2) = m(m + 1)/2 = y(m) > 55

    Spookily 55 is the 10th triangular and fibonacci number.

    x(10) = x(9) + x(8) = 34 + 21 = 10(10 + 1)/2 = y(10) = 55

    I suspect that has something to do with the proof but not sure what.

    I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of this theorem which this website is too small to contain.

    However you can find it here: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.388.3006&rep=rep1&type=pdf
    If only Fermat had heard of TinyURL!
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 452
    edited August 2019
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    55 is the largest Fibonacci number that is also a triangular number and more importantly it is bigger than 50.

    So if we are picking numbers at random, why not? Me? I would have gone for 53 or 59... :D
    Don't answer if this is too complicated for barely numerate people like me but how can you be confident that an infinite chain like Fibonacci numbers doesn't have larger triangular numbers in it?
    I understand the proof runs to 10 pages of densely argued number theory. I would suggest that is too complicated for most numerate people!

    Edit: I see Tissue_Price has now provided a link to the proof.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Anorak said:
    Another one for r/MapsWithoutNZ
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,387
    Foxy said:

    He is not the Messiah, he is just a naughty boy...
    No he is the Messiah. Messiah's I suspect can cancel or ignore the results of 2020 Presidential Elections if it looks lke they might not win them.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Well it is a terrible map.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    RobD said:

    Well it is a terrible map.
    True, we were warned.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Kantar have published their detailed tables.

    This is mind-boggling:

    Vote in the 2017 General Election
    (unweighted
    weighted)

    Scotland - Labour
    1%
    1%
    Scotland - Conservative
    2%
    1%
    Scotland - SNP
    2%
    2%
    Scotland - Other
    1%
    1%
    Scotland - No vote
    2%
    3%

    (final page of the Polling Methodological note –August 2019)

    So, only 2% of the sample voted SNP at GE 2017, but the official, published VI for the SNP for the next GE is 5%.

    Now, I know that we are doing well, but more than doubling support is just not feasible. That would take us to over 60% of Scottish VI.

    I’m afraid that, as far as Scotland is concerned, we’ll have to ignore this poll. I suspect that they have hit an unusually rich seam of recent SNP converts. (Maybe interviewed far too many Scottish students for example?)

    http://www.kantar.com/public/download/documents/286/Brexit+Barometer+Tables+August+2019.pdf

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    Pulpstar said:

    @DavidL You're asking if ∃ x(n) = x(n - 1) + x(n - 2) = m(m + 1)/2 = y(m) > 55

    Spookily 55 is the 10th triangular and fibonacci number.

    x(10) = x(9) + x(8) = 34 + 21 = 10(10 + 1)/2 = y(10) = 55

    I suspect that has something to do with the proof but not sure what.

    I have discovered a truly remarkable proof of this theorem which this website is too small to contain.

    However you can find it here: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.388.3006&rep=rep1&type=pdf
    I made the mistake of reading the first page of this, which seemed ok, and then skimmed down to p2. At which point I gave up. I will take your word for it.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    Has this been discussed? An interesting article (well I think it is anyway)

    https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-remainers-can-no-longer-take-yes-for-an-answer-11790224
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    A very interesting article about traffic jams.

    https://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-jams

    Just fascinating. Some brilliant links today.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    So 55% of voters still back Brexit in some form, only 33% want Revoke and Remain

    Where do you get 55% from?


    55 is the largest Fibonacci number that is also a triangular number and more importantly it is bigger than 50.

    So if we are picking numbers at random, why not? Me? I would have gone for 53 or 59... :D
    Don't answer if this is too complicated for barely numerate people like me but how can you be confident that an infinite chain like Fibonacci numbers doesn't have larger triangular numbers in it?
    Because there are only 4 Fibonacci numbers that are triangle numbers - 1, 3, 21 and 55 - see https://oeis.org/A039595

    The proof is quite complex, but can be dug out online.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508
    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    A very interesting article about traffic jams.

    https://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-jams

    Just fascinating. Some brilliant links today.
    The fun just keeps on coming, David.

    http://www.watching-grass-grow.com/
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Kantar have published their detailed tables.

    This is mind-boggling:

    Vote in the 2017 General Election
    (unweighted
    weighted)

    Scotland - Labour
    1%
    1%
    Scotland - Conservative
    2%
    1%
    Scotland - SNP
    2%
    2%
    Scotland - Other
    1%
    1%
    Scotland - No vote
    2%
    3%

    (final page of the Polling Methodological note –August 2019)

    So, only 2% of the sample voted SNP at GE 2017, but the official, published VI for the SNP for the next GE is 5%.

    Now, I know that we are doing well, but more than doubling support is just not feasible. That would take us to over 60% of Scottish VI.

    I’m afraid that, as far as Scotland is concerned, we’ll have to ignore this poll. I suspect that they have hit an unusually rich seam of recent SNP converts. (Maybe interviewed far too many Scottish students for example?)

    http://www.kantar.com/public/download/documents/286/Brexit+Barometer+Tables+August+2019.pdf

    Deleted
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    algarkirk said:



    Government policy is unambiguous that it wants a deal. No deal people (wrong in my opinion) will back the Tories as both the best - probably only - chance of leaving at all, and certainly the only chance of leaving with their first preference. Some No Deal people probably have limited rationality, but most would put leaving with a deal ahead of Remain/Revoke etc.

    Regarding the pejorative comment on the supposed limited rationality of some No Deal supporters, I will resist the urge to make a pejorative comment about Remainers in reply.....

    The YouGov tracker question isn't really any longer fit for purpose, because the preferred option the Government is arguing for (a renegotiated agreement prior to 31st October) isn't included in any of the options included. Supporting "No Deal" implies it is your preference, not the fallback option. In addition, "No Deal" implies that the position reached on 31st October would be a long term position, as opposed to a shorter term state after which further negotiations would take place.

    A more balanced question which summed up where we are at now politically would be a binary choice between the options to:

    "Leave the EU on 31st October whether or not a long term agreement on the UK's future trading arrangements with the EU is in place by that date"

    "Remain in the EU beyond 31st October by revoking the UK's previous decision to leave the EU"
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    No he is the Messiah. Messiah's I suspect can cancel or ignore the results of 2020 Presidential Elections if it looks lke they might not win them.

    4 things are certain in this life -

    Trump will lose in 2020.
    Trump will refuse to vacate the White House.
    Death.
    Taxes.

    Best way to get him out IMO will be some sort of injection. Wakes up back at Trump Tower with the bedroom door locked. Effective. Humane.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    CatMan said:

    Has this been discussed? An interesting article (well I think it is anyway)

    https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-remainers-can-no-longer-take-yes-for-an-answer-11790224

    Me too. Brexit zealotry is rampant on both sides. Clearly an election won by a Party vowing to hold a referendum would be legitimate. A referendum before either an election or actually Leaving wouldn't be. Or am I alone in this?
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Why would Labour Mps vote for a GE on polls like the latest Kantar ?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Yorkcity said:

    Why would Labour Mps vote for a GE on polls like the latest Kantar ?

    They did last time.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Yorkcity said:

    Why would Labour Mps vote for a GE on polls like the latest Kantar ?

    Hope springs eternal. Labour are always in favour of an election when in opposition.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    Has this been discussed? An interesting article (well I think it is anyway)

    https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-remainers-can-no-longer-take-yes-for-an-answer-11790224

    Me too. Brexit zealotry is rampant on both sides.
    We won't rest until Iain Duncan Smith is drawing his pension in Euros.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    If that's Trump's view, then the EU have clearly been an exemplary set of good faith diplomats.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,707
    One of the funny things about reading the comments elsewhere on the HS2 review is how some people want it cancelled so that *their* area gets increased funding. Scotland, the north, Wales, the southwest and even the southeast have been proposed as *better* places to spend the money. It's almost as if HS2 is an unlimited pot ...

    It also rather ignores that tens of billions are being spent on upgrades and enhancements to the network all over the country in CP6 alone (2019-2024).
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    A very interesting article about traffic jams.

    https://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-jams

    Our first maths lecture at university dealts with traffic flow and how it was similar to water and air flow. The lecturer pointed out that we should be grateful for traffic lights as they sped up the traffic flow. That was many decades ago.
    It seems from the article that if human behaviour could be controlled we'd all get where we were going faster, so I suppose that is something we can look firward to with autonomous cars?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    One of the funny things about reading the comments elsewhere on the HS2 review is how some people want it cancelled so that *their* area gets increased funding. Scotland, the north, Wales, the southwest and even the southeast have been proposed as *better* places to spend the money. It's almost as if HS2 is an unlimited pot ...

    It also rather ignores that tens of billions are being spent on upgrades and enhancements to the network all over the country in CP6 alone (2019-2024).

    I despair of this country. HS2 is going to canned on the back of yet another populist load of misinformation. The money will then remain unborrowed and not one of these other proposals will get it.

    We just can't do it can? People new infrastructure. We used to be able to, but now we can't.

    Meanwhile in China...
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    Has this been discussed? An interesting article (well I think it is anyway)

    https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-remainers-can-no-longer-take-yes-for-an-answer-11790224

    Me too. Brexit zealotry is rampant on both sides. Clearly an election won by a Party vowing to hold a referendum would be legitimate. A referendum before either an election or actually Leaving wouldn't be. Or am I alone in this?
    Well zealotry is one thing practicality is another.
    Is having Corbyn as the caretaker PM whose only job is to extend A50 and arrange for an election more likely to attract enough MPs compared to one headed by someone (anyone) else - e.g. Ken Clarke.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    dixiedean said:

    That is seriously worrying. We know Trump loves those who flatter him.
    There is a significant section of the Evangelical base who consider Trump to be the literal fulfilment of prophecy signifying the final battle of the End Times leading to the Second Coming and Judgment Day.
    He seems to be buying into this.
    And I am quite serious here.
    He's closing the Fed Reserve before he launches that Last Battle though.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1164174364994080768
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,707

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    A very interesting article about traffic jams.

    https://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-jams

    Our first maths lecture at university dealts with traffic flow and how it was similar to water and air flow. The lecturer pointed out that we should be grateful for traffic lights as they sped up the traffic flow. That was many decades ago.
    It seems from the article that if human behaviour could be controlled we'd all get where we were going faster, so I suppose that is something we can look firward to with autonomous cars?
    Some have believed that economics is similar to water flow:
    https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/how-does-economy-work
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONIAC
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    A very interesting article about traffic jams.

    https://www.smartmotorist.com/traffic-jams

    Our first maths lecture at university dealts with traffic flow and how it was similar to water and air flow. The lecturer pointed out that we should be grateful for traffic lights as they sped up the traffic flow. That was many decades ago.
    It seems from the article that if human behaviour could be controlled we'd all get where we were going faster, so I suppose that is something we can look firward to with autonomous cars?
    Some have believed that economics is similar to water flow:
    https://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/objects-and-stories/how-does-economy-work
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONIAC
    Today I learnt about fluid logic gates.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited August 2019
    Looking at the Brexit polls.

    I honestly thought Brexit-fatigue would benefit the Remain camp. I thought the longer it went on the more people would say 'bugger it, let's stay'. It does appear more people are inclined to say 'bugger it, let's have it over and done with and get out'.

    I certainly see more of the latter in my work-related meetings. Most people just want the whole sorry saga over with.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Fenster said:

    Looking at the Brexit polls.

    I honestly thought Brexit-fatigue would benefit the Remain camp. I thought the longer it went on the more people would say 'bugger it, let's stay'. It does appear more people are inclined to say 'bugger it, let's have it over and done with and get out'.

    I certainly see more of the latter in my work-related meetings. Most people just want the whole sorry saga over with.

    People haven't yet realised that it will be a long way from over if we leave, particularly with no deal.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Fenster, I thought there'd be a bit more of that too.

    Hmm.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Ah, the ever-mysterious polling company X.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited August 2019

    Fenster said:

    Looking at the Brexit polls.

    I honestly thought Brexit-fatigue would benefit the Remain camp. I thought the longer it went on the more people would say 'bugger it, let's stay'. It does appear more people are inclined to say 'bugger it, let's have it over and done with and get out'.

    I certainly see more of the latter in my work-related meetings. Most people just want the whole sorry saga over with.

    People haven't yet realised that it will be a long way from over if we leave, particularly with no deal.
    Yes. The let's just leave crew have no idea what is to follow but then again it doesn't really matter. Most of them no more care about the details of any FTA than they do about the mechanics of the internal combustion engine in theRange Rover Evoque they have on the never never.

    We will have left so for them it will be job done. And I have a certain sympathy for that. They were and are ignorant of what he EU actually is so why would they care about terms of trade or balance of payments and so forth.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    One of the funny things about reading the comments elsewhere on the HS2 review is how some people want it cancelled so that *their* area gets increased funding. Scotland, the north, Wales, the southwest and even the southeast have been proposed as *better* places to spend the money. It's almost as if HS2 is an unlimited pot ...

    It also rather ignores that tens of billions are being spent on upgrades and enhancements to the network all over the country in CP6 alone (2019-2024).

    I despair of this country. HS2 is going to canned on the back of yet another populist load of misinformation. The money will then remain unborrowed and not one of these other proposals will get it.

    We just can't do it can? People new infrastructure. We used to be able to, but now we can't.

    Meanwhile in China...
    ...they have built 25000km of high speed rail lines since 2009. High speed rail is seen as the future of medium-range transport in just about every country in the world outside the US. The UK is way behind - countries such as Morocco and Turkey have more high speed lines than we do.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    dixiedean said:

    That is seriously worrying. We know Trump loves those who flatter him.
    There is a significant section of the Evangelical base who consider Trump to be the literal fulfilment of prophecy signifying the final battle of the End Times leading to the Second Coming and Judgment Day.
    He seems to be buying into this.
    And I am quite serious here.
    He's closing the Fed Reserve before he launches that Last Battle though.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1164174364994080768
    Erm...The Marriner S. Eccles building?
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    Fenster said:

    Looking at the Brexit polls.

    I honestly thought Brexit-fatigue would benefit the Remain camp. I thought the longer it went on the more people would say 'bugger it, let's stay'. It does appear more people are inclined to say 'bugger it, let's have it over and done with and get out'.

    I certainly see more of the latter in my work-related meetings. Most people just want the whole sorry saga over with.

    I think the mood music from Downing Street will have done that. I have no time for Boris's view that it just needs more optimism and determination.. but in short-term domestic politics, he may well be right. And sadly, it seems politicians give zero f*cks beyond that.

    If it did come to pass that we leave and he wins a stonking majority very soon off the back, he'd be happy to do five and a bit years, see off Corbyn and McDonnell into retirement (please god), and leave the next Labour leader to negotiate closer ties with Europe. If there is a very shaky period in between, or indeed he's forced into the closer ties before five years are up, I'm not sure he'll care that much.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    That is seriously worrying. We know Trump loves those who flatter him.
    There is a significant section of the Evangelical base who consider Trump to be the literal fulfilment of prophecy signifying the final battle of the End Times leading to the Second Coming and Judgment Day.
    He seems to be buying into this.
    And I am quite serious here.
    He's closing the Fed Reserve before he launches that Last Battle though.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1164174364994080768
    Erm...The Marriner S. Eccles building?
    Has he confused Twitter with Siri?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Kruggman:

    "Starting a trade war with Europe would truly be a lose-lose proposition, even more so than our trade war with China. It’s the last thing either America or Europe needs. Which means that Trump is probably going to do it."

    Brexit and a EU-US trade war?

    Great. Just great.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865

    DavidL said:

    dixiedean said:

    That is seriously worrying. We know Trump loves those who flatter him.
    There is a significant section of the Evangelical base who consider Trump to be the literal fulfilment of prophecy signifying the final battle of the End Times leading to the Second Coming and Judgment Day.
    He seems to be buying into this.
    And I am quite serious here.
    He's closing the Fed Reserve before he launches that Last Battle though.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1164174364994080768
    Erm...The Marriner S. Eccles building?
    Has he confused Twitter with Siri?
    Who knows? Remember only the future is certain.
This discussion has been closed.